What makes an rpg for you? The spell list? The classes features?

Depends on what I'm looking for in a game today. Any of those can work, though feats less often.

>>53067255

Those things are all features, but none of them are deciding factors, at least for me.

What I love about RPG's is when the mechanics are in tune with the theme and the premise. When I read the fluff, and I read the rules, and I see that they're in sync.

Give me a world, a premise, an idea that can create interesting stories, and partner it with rules and guidelines that support the fluff in interesting and evocative ways.

These days, I've started to look for crunchier systems which do this. A lot of rules light fluffy systems accomplish this, but I've fallen in love with games which partner more complex, deep and satisfying mechanics with a strong narrative idea, showing that you can combine good, strong game design with all the strengths of a storygame save for its lightness, and create something really unique and awesome from it.

There are very few of them around which do it well, but I treasure those I find and I keep hoping for more.

anytime you've got to write your own character backstory, its an RPG.

its also acceptable if there's a pre-written backstory, but you only discover bits and pieces of it along the journey. because you're playing someone potentially emotionally detached from that backstory.

if you have a pre-written backstory that's presented in full before you play, that's just acting out someone else's ideas.

>>53067430

>if you have a pre-written backstory that's presented in full before you play, that's just acting out someone else's ideas.

But there's still an element of roleplay in that. Sure, a lot is defined, but how you interpret it will change it.

It's interesting. I've seen a few different players play the same pregen stock characters over the years, identical backstories and character sheets, but based on their choices, how they played them, they felt like completely different people. I don't think that's a point where it stops being RP.

>>53067459
oh for sure, there's elements of it with pre-gen, but that's extrapolation and adaptation based on the scenario. developing their own character would add trace elements of their own values/beliefs directly into the character's design, but with a pre-gen character they're applying what they think the character would do in the situation- not what THEY would do in the situation.

see the difference? adopting a role on someone else's terms is acting, adopting the role on your own terms is roleplay.

>>53067385
Which games could you say accomplish that?

Do you guys think magic should always be a preset list of spells?

>>53067535

I don't think that really fits. Acting and roleplaying have some similarities, but it's the intent that's completely different, not the method that actually achieves it.

>>53067601
unless you're prepared to let the players experiment with creating a magical system from scratch, while defining what can and cannot succeed, the list is just easier to deal with.

>>53067637
different schools of thought, same outcome? kinda like the differences between a method actor and an improv actor?

>>53067543

The best example I've found is unfortunately fundamentally flawed.

I'm one of those people who fucking adore Legends of the Wulin. I can talk at length about how it marries fluff and mechanics, how rules rely on fluff and fluff relies on rules and it blends it all together with a fucking good combat system... But before all of that comes the reason why most people will never play it.

The core book is awfully, awfully edited. To the point it makes the already atypical system about a dozen times harder to learn than it really needs to be. Out of interest and having played its predecessor, Weapons of the Gods, I and my group managed to figure it out, but holy fuck. Some really important rules are never directly stated, the text contains dozens of little references to things that don't exist anymore, rules buried in the middle of fluff paragraphs and just generally does nothing to make itself a useful reference document.

And it's never going to get any better, because the company behind it imploded. Weirdly, it's also a game where it's more ethical to pirate it than to buy it, since apparently the accounts were all stolen by the chinese side of the company who ran off with all Jenna Moran's kickstarter money.

A fucking tragic situation around what could have been an utterly beautiful game, but ended up as a deeply flawed gem that requires so much work to actually figure out I can see why most people would just write it off.

>>53067601

Nothing should 'always' be a certain way. It's all about what you're trying to achieve, the ideas you're working with and the constraints of your system.

>>53067255
>The spell list?
>The classes features?
>Feats?
>Combat rules?
None of those.

It needs: ability to accurately simulate the setting(ideally multiple settings) and a semblance of balance.

>>53067702
I've heard a couple of anons talk favourably about Legends of Wulin.
Do you reckon we could pull off a Universal Explanation Document? As in, a companion piece that spells out all the eccentricities and bullshit.
Could /tg/ reasonable get that shit done?

>>53067255
>all the choices are mechanical
>DnD mechanics at that
>also making broad generalizations about what ''''''most players'''''' want

Get chemo quick. It might not be too late for you.

>>53067889
That was my thought too.

It's kind of painful how those are presented as the only options. Like dnd is so deep rooted in the psyche that you can't even comprehend other systems.

>>53067889
>>53067948
I know there are a lot of systems out there, and that was kinda the point, how everyone wants dnd(at least here in my city) and something different doesn't feel right for them

>>53067255
I like games that don't get game-y with dice. Roll your two to four dice, sum result, compare to number. Playing with the number of dice like dice pools or special effects on odd or even results or finding sets or anything that treat dice as more than a simple RNG immediately loses my interest. I'm here to roleplay, not get wacky and cute with your vidya-dice bullshit.

>>53067255
There has to be something to do. Something interesting and meaningful.

>>53071403

I guess it's a preference thing, but this feels weird to me.

What about thematic and evocative mechanics which echo the roleplay, or even reinforce it? Why does dealing with dice stop or interfere with your roleplaying?

>>53071758
Thematic and evocative mechanics such as? I might be fine with them, but I can't think of any.

>>53067601
No

>Goes back to DMing Mage the Ascension

>>53067601
it's really hard to answer this question but honestly magic should probably not be nearly as quantifiable as pretty much every RPG makes it