Info on morale phase is up https://www.warhammer-community.c

So AoS.

Eh, I think it's just a tad too deadly for my tastes. Low-leadership horde units are fucked.

Looks like they're happy with how the AoS battleshock worked, and I think that's fine.

Now you don't lose an entire unit to sweeping advance, individuals can run while their squadmates don't, etc. It also helps speed up the game in a sense from my experience, and makes things feel more 'lethal'

It's also nice because both sides in a melee can lose models, rather than just the 'losing side'.

No word on how leadership will affect things like pinning yet, but that's probably in unit specific rules with pinning weapons

>>53040847
Maybe they'll have a 'mob rule' situation in the special rules for certain units like orcs that take a nob or something, or nids near enough o synapse get a boost to their Ld/ignore the first three fleeing models etc.

In AoS we saw a few modifications to core rules once the warscrolls came out for individual units, so it may not be all over yet. Plus, Marines have Ld 7 now at base, so they'll be running too (unless they keep their fancy ATSKNF)

Looks like I'll have to buy some commissars come 8th, LD tests are going to brutal and I'm ok with this.

>>53040847
Except when there is a commissar to blam them!

>>53040875
This

8th edition is all about treamlining, and battleshock is not har bad of a system

And like this anon said both sides should have a chance to loose troops, not just one

I will miss however falling back and things like that

>>53040769
what about ATSKNF?

>>53040969
I can see a rule along those lines: if you have a commissar in the squad and are supposed to lose more than one model, you can choose to execute a single model instead

>>53040847
Hordes in AoS often get leadership increases per 10 models after the first 10 in the unit, horde lists are some of the most powerful ones in the game.

Fingers crossed Commissars and Priests buffs Guard blobs.

>>53040769
>Info on morale phase is up
Basically, morale is deprecated.

I don't mind any of the changes that have been introduced up to now, but this grinds my gear a little. Falling back and regrouping is the flow of any wargame and they basically got rid of that. Rip the fun of my IG list.

>>53040904
>Maybe they'll have a 'mob rule' situation in the special rules for certain units like orcs that take a nob or something, or nids near enough o synapse get a boost to their Ld/ignore the first three fleeing models etc.
Hoping for some sort of exception or special rules for commissars as well. Falling back and regrouping was essential with IG armies.

>>53041082
While true in theory, in my experience 90% of the times unless you play marines if a unit fail its morale is as good as dead just with more rolling and more time wasted.

>even easier to pass morale checks
>no more units falling back

oh, okay. i will miss breaking units by morale since it hardly happened and everyone has ways to ignore or easily pass morale

>>53040769
>leader joins small unit
>unit suffers casualties
>roll poorly
>leader dies of battleshock test

>>53040847
All the hordes already have some form of Ld management - Commisars, the Mob Rule and Synapse
As long as they're adapted you can get some very tough hordes if supported right

>>53041115
Yeah seriously, rolling double 1s each turn to see if a couple of boyz return is just tedious.

>>53041143
>HQs joining units
Not anymore!

>>53041166
>HQs joining units
>Not anymore!
has it been confirmed?
any talk of los?

Doesn't seem that bad. There are exceptions to every rule. Marines will probably get to re-roll failed morale tests, IG and orks will probably have a way of taking minimal casualties, necromancer will probably have high leadership along with daemons, and hopefully nids will ignore it if they are within synapse. All these things are possible, we haven't gotten all the rules yet.

>>53041192
My phone is retarded, nercrons not necromancer

>>53041186
Nah not confirmed, but it's so likely now that I don't see it going any other way. Even in this article they speak of dark apostles giving off a buff to nearby units instead of it affecting the unit they're in.

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>>53040769
>fluff tomorrow
I don't know if I have to hype or be afraid

>>53041135
>even easier to pass morale check
I would respectfully disagree. As the result depends on the number of casualties, horde units may be at a disadvantage (ignoring all special rules they may have). Remember a Marine is only Ld7 now (8 for Terminators ...and Dreads, which is strange since Dreads can't even be affected by morale if I understood well)
Unless you meant the whole procedure is streamlined?

>>53041101

I imagine Commissars will be something along the lines of if a unit containing a Commissar (or a unit within X" of a Commissar) that fails a battleshock test reduces the number of casualties they suffer due to battleshock to 1 representing the Commissar executing a man and the rest getting back in formation.

Pretty thematic and it means that huge units of guard that would otherwise be wiped out due to casualties and morale will be difficult to shift with a Commissar near by.

Interesting, you only roll 1 die not two like before

>>53041276

Certain spells and abilities in AoS still use Bravery which is why single units still have the stat, I assume it'll be the same for 40K.

>>53041082
>>Falling back and regrouping is the flow of any wargame

No, lots of modern wargames (maybe even most) have dome away with units falling back from moral. It adds a random mechanic that you can end up losing an entire squad because of one bad roll on 2d6 on top of losing combat or 25% casualties to shooting. I'm glad to see it go but it's too early to say is battleshock is a good replacement.

>>53041166
>>53041186
They mentioned HQs joining units in the Q&A video, specifically that a guardsmen unit won't get the special rule bonuses from a space marine captain joining them. I assume the rumor came from some shitty fansite that fucked up a summary.

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>>53040769
>change ruleset
>marines stop having a solid 3+ armour and ignoring morale

>release numarines with 3+ inv save and that ignore morale

post yfw

>>53041308
thanks for the insight, I can see it being relevant for psyker powers indeed.

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>>53040769
>and represents...dying from the psychic feedback shockwaves of their allies
>a gaunt dies despite not being hit because another one did

tyranids confirmed to be stunt actors in badly directed fight scenes

>the squads behind, to the left, to the right and in front of me all just got obliterated in an instant
>No-one in my squad dided though, I'm still perfectly fine with bayonet charging the cosmic horrors

>>53041681
Because Guardsman Timmy isn't a panzee.

>>53041613
>Hissgurgle had too much of the bitch gene
>Hissgurgle clumps up in the middle of the swarm so he doesn't get shot
>a few die, and due to angles Hissgurgle takes a hit
>the swarm was fine, nids accept death usually
>however Hissgurgle loses his shit as he dies and Chitterclick just blows up.
Fuck Hissgurgle, the next batch should have that problem fixed.

>>53041681
>Shoota Mob to the left decimated
>Slugga mob to the right on fire
>I bet I can kill those gits

>>53041777
More killin' for me, boss!

>>53041681
>whfb 8th
>one unit breaks so the entire army falls apart

I'm just curious what ATSKNF will be like and just how problematic/ignorable thid will be for small capacity units, like Kataphrons.

7th Edition
>ATSKNF is too powerful and fear is useless!

8th Edition
>I remove models because other models died and I rolled higher than my leadership?! WTF

I vastly prefer the new system, it's faster and more effective and it makes fear and leadership scores matter again.

>>53041315
I think the addition of keywords will dictate what units can inyeract with other units, like in AOS

for instance, maybe a space marine captain could make it so his squad does not battleshock, but that only works with models with the "space marine" keyword

Thats how it works in AOS, and it makes it hard to form deathstars

>>53042375
It means small units barely feel it, as once they've lost enough models for this to effect them, they're as good as dead anyway.

3 models ld7 loose 2. The only way you lose the last one is on a leadership roll of 6.

>>53041164
>Commisars, the Mob Rule and Synapse
This assumes GW is keeping those rules in for the 8th edition. Given how the horde/Assault-heavy armies seem to be benefiting most from the upcoming rule changes so far, they probably will.
Looks like I might've picked the right time to get back into 40k. Now I just need to find a place to meet other players for games...

I imagine that for IG platoon standards will be more useful and vox casters will be almost required

>>53042375
>thid

I don't mean to harp on you too hard, but there's a lot of anons making typos in these threads. I don't know what the deal is.

>>53041777
Into the valley of death rode the 600?

>>53042957

everyone is ragetpying

>>53042957
I was phoneposting is my excuse. Noticed it too late.

>>53041681
If I wanted to play Total War: Rome 2, I'd do that.

>>53042488
>Unit of Five Marines
Alright, let's shoot us some deathguard bastards
>Not in rapid fire range, shoot five shots. Three hit, one wound, but they pass their FNP
>Deathguard shoot my marines next turn
>One Marine fails his save, damn it
>Morale phase, roll a 12
wait what the fuck Marines are leadership 7?!
>Every marine dies of glorious sudoku because Brother Bartholomew had to fuck up

>>53043284
It's 1d6 plus models lost.
You would need to lose 2 models, and then roll a 6 to lose 1 more.

The only way you lose all is if you lose 3, and then a roll a 6.

>>53043284
You only roll 1D6

>>53041613
These fight scenes LOOK FUCKING SHIT.

I wonder if units like the ethereal will keep it's bravery bubble that it currently has. Failing bravery checks sucks but at least there is no more sweeping advance

>>53041744
Whos chitterclick? But sure hissgurgle was a bitch, typical middle child of 6 million

>>53040769

Battle Shock seems interesting, will really feel like it has impact as turns go on instead of units just immediately disappearing or being written off as useless when they take multiple turns to run off the board.
I wonder if Pinning and the like are still in, however.
It was given some interesting buffs in 7th but then removed from like 80% of the guns that had it so nobody ever had to deal with it (Unless the Eldar/Tau player wanted to have some fun with units that are never used) unless it was exploding Transports.

My biggest concern however is not from core rules changes (most of the issues with the core rules themselves seem to stem from their consistently shit formatting but I digress), but from the individual army lists themselves.
Core rules changes don't matter if the design team can't take their heads out of their asses enough to not engage in blatant faction favoritism like we've seen for the past near 10 years.
Because the changes to Battle Shock don't mean anything if the powerful armies still have Special Rules/stats that let them just ignore them most of the time.
I know I'm being blatantly pessimistic and they say that they are trying to balance the game again but given their track record for the last 2-3 editions it's difficult to really place belief in that promise, for me at least.

Other companies would kill for the customer loyalty that GW has accrued over the decades but GW themselves seem to have just taken it for granted or squandered it for the past decade or so.
Something big must have happened for them to actually get off their asses and make a public attempt at balancing this shitshow and regaining some of their previous playerbase trust.
Only time will tell if expectations actually pay off though.

So for every point over your leadership are you losing 1 whole model or just taking 1 wound?

>>53043954
model

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>>53040847

>>53041008
>what about ATSKNF?
I'd imagine it'll be immunity to leadership modifiers

>>53040769
I like it clean and streamlined. No managing falling back units and regrouping.

As a guard player i'm stoked.

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>>53041322

>>53041076
Even without buffs they're still fine.
If a commissar costs 50 pts vs a 5pt guardsman, you can just stick more men in there as ablative leadership.

>>53042957
Where angrt,

>>53044156
Same.
Also I imagine executing a coward is a way to bypass the test. I hope it's not a reroll, this game has too many rerolls as it is.

>>53041613
My guess is nids will get access to plenty of fearless shit like they did last edition.

>>53043699
I disagree, unbalances are much more manageable than bad core rules.

>>53043699
they already said they would listen to the community and update the books if they aren't fine enough, applying the 'community fixes'. So I think there is some hope on that field too - at worst a codex/battle tome will be imba for a year, judging from AoS

>>53044214
you made me laugh out loud anon, thank you

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>>53044257
As a nid player I'm expecting only the synaptic creatures themselves to be immune to morale, with the rest getting to use the ld of the synaptic creature if in range

>>53040769
>The mechanics are simple – any units that suffered casualties in a turn must take a Morale test at the end of it. You just roll a D6, add the number of models from the unit that have been slain, and if the number is bigger than the unit’s Leadership, the unit loses the difference in additional models. No units falling back, no regroup tests – all that is gone.
Thank god. Even if my nids could potentially be fucked, I like it. It's cleaner and easier to manage.

>>53044314
how interesting would it be if the only effect of being out of synapse range was 'you are obliged to use your shitty Ld3'?

>>53044382
(well now that Marines are Ld7 why stop at 3, Ld1 it is for Gaunts!)

>>53043284
You tried to strawman, and even fucked that up.
Anon, kill yourself, my man.

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>>53041322

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>>53044382
>>53044406
Fair enough. What are your shrimps even doing outside of synapse, in the first place ?

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Any word on the rumor that all transports are assault transports now?

>>53044427
they weren't. Ork snipers happened, synpase creatures disappeared

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>>53044470
Good job, then.

... w-w-wait, did you just said, "ork snipers" ?!

>>53044314
Can only hope it turns out well. Nids have been getting the short end of the stick for too long. When was the last good codex 5th? 4th?

Not a nid player, btw.

>>53044517
Wrong chapter.

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Post your fucking face when its revealed ATSKNF means marines ignore extra wounds caused by morale. And AGAIN get away with the most bullshit OP special rule in the game.

>>53044192
>ablative leadership
my new favorite term out of all this.

>>53044543
True that. Let me sudoku myself.

>>53044550
Don't have any pictures of me shruging.

I have high hopes for 8th. Doesn't mean I haven't learned from being burned so many times before.

So you just remove the difference from the game completely?

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>>53044550

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>>53044550

>>53044435
it has never been a reliable rumour
because it started as a straight confirmation from GW somewhere in the comments

>>53044550
There is a part of me that wouldn't mind this if it meant that being outnumbered 3 to 1 against armies like CSM, nids and orks, outfought by armies like Eldar and Daemons, outshot by Tau and Admech.
Anon, I would like SMs to be able to bring >30 models to the table total and be able to throw down, and have no problem with units being very expensive if they have the rules to make them survivable enough to actually fight.
Unlike now where MEQ infantry is some of the worst in the game, and no SM army you can think of uses actual infantry, but loads up on as many elites as they can cheese out of formations.

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>>53044542
>When was the last good codex 5th? 4th?
from what I gather definitely 4th edition, with 5th and 6th being cruddex

>tfw I started tyranids with the release of the 5th ed codex

>>53044665
So that's why they charged out of the Rhino in that stream...

I suspect ATSKNF will be similar to the command ability in AoS that lets you ignore battleshock for a round, but you have to be battle forged to use it.

>>53044665

seriously? god dammit

>>53044687
Its not that marines deserve to die by the droves, but its pretty shit that everyone else does. And why should a marine heavy army like will be possible now in 8th with only minus one to hit with heavy weapons when chaos marines could do the same without the crutch.

>>53044890
>its pretty shit that everyone else does
The only armies that would are the armies that would outnumber MEQ armies by magnitude, and would still roll MEQ armies entirely by sheer weight of numbers. That is part of the reason why people don't take infantry MEQ, because they are expensive, but still fall to dice, especially in CC.
CSM are likely going to have their own list of goodies that do something similar, on top of the fact that outside a MEQ statline, CSM plays much different compared to SM.

>>53044140
Also immunity to fear
>I assume

>>53043284
The thought of someone rolling 12 on one D6 and loosing whole squad is quite hilarious.
I am almost seeing the player
>Fucking 8th edition, making my perfectly fine dice dodecahedral

>>53044542
>>53044727
definitively 4th, begin with it, the transition to 5th was hard

>>53044382
It would be an interesting way to do it. Even on an average roll, if you've lost anything at all (and thus are even having to trigger battleshock), the gaunts eat each other to some degree.
But knowing GW we'll get that on top of stupid shit like eating ourselves on our turn too, because Cruddace is the Tyranid Expert.

>>53043444
The batsuit is really fucking uncomfortable. Almost every batman movie except for Adam West one had people complaining about nearly passing out in the suit.

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>>53045485
>mfw when Kairos Fate weaver.

>>53040769
Looks like I need some more metal boxes.

I wish that everyone everywhere would call 40k 8th, "AoS reskinned".

ok, so... shooting is god, single vehicles are the way of the future?

Hmmm, I guess bike squad are dead. Or are they gonna do 30k esque talons where you buy it in a batch, but don't consider them as units?

>>53046803
it's warhammer 40kaos now

even if it's more probable that aos rules were intended for 40k to begin with and used the dying fantasy as a beta test

>>53046811
In not sure if shooting will end up that great. It depends a lot on the value cover saves, but if marines can get an easy 2+ just by hiding in some rubble that'll make shooting a lot trickier.

I mean, fire a Lascannon at a Terminator in +2 Cover, and that's still a 3+ save.

>>53042590
>I think
That is literally how they described it, as AOS-like keywords that allow units with the same keyword to benefit from the rules, specifically to make it hard to form deathstars.

So you're absolutely right.

>>53044517
Never heard of an ork sniper? You just have a git with a big gun sitting way away from the battle, shove a scope into his eye socket so he can see the enemies from far enough away to know what general direction to spray bullets.

It's best to have them in groups of 20 but eventually something's dead.

>>53044550
A big idea for changing things was to get rid of that concept so that damn near everyone had to deal with it.

>>53046981
How do you know what kind of bonuses cover gives, anon?

>>53047229
GW told us what kind of bonuses they give. If you're asking about values then there should be a +2 somewhere unless it's all the same save, which I seriously doubt.

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>>53044517
>>53047199

Meh, battleshock tests are the only thing i don't like about AoS, kinda hoped they would not implement them in 40k

>>53047229
I don't. That's why I was guessing. They have told us Cover is a bonus to armor though, so I'm assuming there's at least some way to get +1 or +2 cover depending on if it's lighter or heavier. The most i would expect is +3 for a fortification.

Again though, as long as +2 is possible, you can end up with some crazy durability against even bigger guns

>>53047475

Not enough dakka for sniping.

>>53041276
more than "battleshock" affects the statistic,ala spells and special rules. BUT also we don't know if dreads are not allowed in units yet or not, they could end up like the khorgoraths and be a unit of 1-6. then i matters, big time

>>53047475
>the longer the barrel, the further it shoots
Fucking orks, I love them.

>>53041322
considering the fact that marines are able to go to a 2+ by standing behind a fence now on top of the fact that a marine in the open still has a 6+ save against a fucking lascannon marine armor got buffed

>>53047475
>360 noscope
>180noscope
>Izagitandforgotdascope

>>53047487
same , it feels kinda lazy and buffs death stars more while nerfing blobs

>>53048306
buffing non-existant death stars... good call senpai

>>53048321
wrong choice of words perhaps
it buffs small elite units with high wound counts while nerfing wheat and chaff

>>53044168
THICC

>>53048155
That is literally how it works in real life though, you fucking retard.

>>53046981
Did they lock down how weapons penetrate cover yet?

>>53041314
And we all know GW hates stupid random shit.

>>53049480
I'm no ballistics expert, but I'm pretty sure a 25mm Bushmaster is going to shoot further than a 15" battleship cannon fitted to shoot .22s.

It will certainly be less influence by wind, humidity, and of course, the Coriolis effect on account of the bullet's mass.

I wish 8E had exploding dice. No particular reason, I just really like exploding dice.

>>53044192
Yes, yes buy more and more models.

>>53049847
>Implying any given Guard player can't already go full-Chenkov at a moment's notice.

Bitch, please...

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>>53044550

>mfw

I would be totally fine with Marines ignoring battleshock.

>>53049787
This is one of the few reasons I am glad GW was taking tips from the tourney crowd.

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>>53044550
I would assume that would be the case for them. Children need a crutch to stay in the game after all.

Since I will be Guard, I'm sure I will get rewards for having massive blobs and Commissars and Priests will help, so I don't really mind or care.

>>53049480
technically the longer barrel just keeps the bullet accurate over longer distances, it doesn't actually increase the range. The powder in the cartridge is what creates the distance

>>53049787
I don't. There's already too much rolling and rerolling.

>>53049605
Since it's a modifier to armor, heavier weapons will just blow through it. So guard with a +2 from ruins would have a 6+ against a Lascannon

They also mentioned some weapons would specifically ignore cover modifiers, like Noise marine guns

>>53050061
up to a certain point it does increase range. The bullet accelerates for longer in a longer barrel, meaning higher muzzel velocity and so longer range

>>53048401
true. but the charging and combat rules are better for big blobs.

So it balances out maybe leaning towards blobs.

>>53050228
I think the changes to blasts is also better, since you can bunch them up in terrain without being more vulnerable to blasts.

>>53050228
we'll have to see how far melee range in this edition
if we get the 2 inch from a model in base contact then maybe , if we get aos' weapon range blobs will be trash in melee to

>>53050281
Charge phase requires closing to 1" of a targeted unit to engage CQC. Fight phase allows activating units a free 3" move towards the closest enemy, which can be used to engage additional units. That additional movement during the Fight phase cannot be hit by Overwatch.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/01/new-warhammer-40000-charge-phasegw-homepage-post-4/
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/02/new-warhammer-40000-fight-phase-may2gw-homepage-post-4/

That sounds like what you were asking, but some of your wording is vague.

I believe the need for base contact to attack has also been removed, but that was clarified in the facebook comments. I'll see if I have it saved.

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>>53050445
I checked my sources. It's unclear if base contact is required or not, as it was never explicitly confirmed or denied.

>>53050281

We are getting 1 inch weapon range actually.

>>53050592
>There is a standard 1" range


Seems clear to me

>>53040769
At this point why even have separate systems.
Why keep a few token stats.
Why not just make 40k exactly like AoS.

>>53049480
I'm not retarded, I know it can add shit but that's not the focus on making a rifle. Calm your tits, you don't have to rage at something because it might be stupid. Like, is there a reason to be that angry?

>>53046811

Going by what we currently know it's highly probable that a Leman Russ will have about 3 times as many wounds as it has HP's now, and will likely have a 2+ armor save with camo-netting.

"dude battleshock will kill my vehicles if they're squadroned!" is a meme.

>>53050592
Christ it better be base to base.
Not just saying that flat out was one of AoS ' biggest retarded cope outs.

>>53050757

Keeps cancerous fantasy fags away from the rest of us.

>>53044550
Marines get ATSKNF to ignore extra wounds.
Nids get synapse to ignore extra wounds.
Necrons can come back from extra wounds.
Guard lets their commissar execute one in place of losing several.

Everyone's gonna get their piece of bullshit.

>>53050780

Keeping track of all these wounds is going to be a bit of a hassle, I'm not convinced it's the way forward but what do I know. Hopefully before taking wounds above 10 they should increase toughness and the save.

>>53050445
>>53050592
>There is a standard 1" range of weapons
Pretty cut and fucking dry.

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>>53050809

> AoS
> Fantasy

Don't tar us all with that pile of shit.

>>53050878

Without knowing which kind of fag you are, you could be talking about either group.

That's the cancer, by the way.

>>53050827
>sisters get an act of faith where they can roll and if successful, ignore it on one squad once per game

>>53051009
>sisters
Why would female space marines get something special?

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>>53051071

0/10, please have your mommy sign this quiz and return it to class tomorrow.

>>53040769

Dropped.

>>53051164
>he didn't drop it the moment he was "40k"

Boy I sure do love being able to credit card warrior in tabletop games. Buy those Knights and Riptides, goy!

>>53051164
Charges still being random is a much better reason to drop.

>>53050757
Just do full crossover. Anyone can buy and play with any model from AoS and 40k mixed together.

If it sells models, why would GW care?

>>53051189
You're welcome to fuck off to Chess.

>>53050831
no more of a hassel than it is in 7e.
using a die or other tokens will still work

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>>53050831
It's a good thing they sell those wound tracker dice riiiiiiiight?

>>53051721

Yeah but you'll need 3 D10 or a D30 to keep track of something with 21 or more wounds.

>>53051767

Yep, a bag of D10 official 'wound counters' for only 19.99!

>>53052017
>21+ wounds
>3d10

Are you literally retarded?

>>53052017
you'll bever need more than 2d10, nothing is going to have over 100 wounds.
d10s will likely so for most things if even a dread only has 8 wounds.

>>53051767
>>53052017
Citadel Skull Notepad and Citadel Skulltopped Pen.

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>>53040769
Battleshock can piss off, die in a fucking hole, and the FUCK out of 40k. I had hope for 8th edition until the 2d6 charge which has around a 25% of being completely fucked and this new bullshit morale system that can fuckoff and die in a corner. 40K morale was fun because it DID something, models would physically move off the board and you could still save them and regroup. Now? Apparently my Death Korps of Krieg are going to piss themselves and run away? What the fuck?

>>53052212
Oh, it sure is having 2 turns of useless models in the field.

I'm not gonna say the new system is better, but don't praise the old one.

>>53044727

6th Edition Rulebook with 5th edition Tyranids was a relatively fun time as we got to play around with rulebook psychic powers. Not great, not balanced or fluffy like I would have an ideal book be, but I'll be damned if firing off T7 S8 I7 FnP Rending missiles, AKA "Outflanking Biomancy Access Broodlords hidden in an MSU" wasn't fun as hell.

>>53052265
It's better to have a system that does something unique than have a mechanic that does the same thing as distributing wounds.

Just gut the morale system already, it's fucking trash and doesn't belong in a game where half of the players are fielding shit that should all have fearless according to their lore.

>>53052368
uniqueness for uniqueness sake is dumb.

Getting rid of morale is fine, but then it would need to be a different game. 40k still operate on unit per unit basis rather than model per model, so the abstraction of combat needs something beyond just a blob grinding down with no ebb and flow.

certainly better than sweeping advance

>>53052212

Half the factions in AoS have a way to deal with it anyway. Guard will have a way to deal with it. don't get your knickers in a bunch.

Why can't we just go back to 4th? Sweeping advances, even being able to initiate melee that way. Units that can regroup. Special things for fearless etc.

>>53052473
it has AV values. I liked 4th, but I'm not eager to go back

>>53052411
Except swaths of armies in prior editions were immune or resistant to morale failures. Now that goes out the way because "hur dur muh 30 minute games".

>>53052017
You can just use D6's and count up instead of down

>>53052617
So your complaint is that we aren't using the rules that we weren't using anyway?

Alright, so it does things now. good for you and me.

>>53052212

Morale did nothing. Over half the armies in the game were immune to it more or less entirely.

>>53052716
>>53052733
Battleshock isn't really an interesting replacement. Should've just made everything a bit more lethal instead.

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>tfw Night Lords force checks constantly

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>>53052815
>new morale causes thing to be removed instead of old morale where nothing happens.
>it should be more lethal instead.

Is this bait? Jesus fucking christ

>>53052897
Instead of bothering with morale, just make things more lethal. Ends up in basically the same place and you don't need an extra phase.

>>53052716
Removing models isn't fucking good for me.

>>53052815
>Should've just made everything a bit more lethal instead.

No, fuck off with this shit because Im fucking tired of playing the Apocalypse that has become of 7th ed where everyone has something thats both ignoring everyone's armor and wounding everything on 2+s or some crazy shit, I dont want to put my minis only to be erased next turn.

Battleshock may not be elegant or particularly interesting but it does its job, its simple and its punishing bad decisions and thats all that a morale system should do.

>>53052975
It just does a percentage more damage to units.

>>53052995
so it's more lethal.
>>53052944
how would it be more lethal? it already is more lethal in the new system.

>>53053008
My point is that you could just roll that into combat and ditch morale entirely. If you're not going to make an interesting system, just ditch it.

>>53040904
In the past, Orks have has a Ld value equal to the Boyz in their squad/fearless over a certain number. Here's hoping there'll be similar workarounds.

>>53053180

Well, AOS has +1 Bravery per 10 units in the squad as a general rule.

Battleshock in AoS I think was supposed to be a response to Steadfast which is one of the things that killed WHFB. I agree it feels kind of weird in 40k. It doesn't bother me on its own because it does speed things up a bit but it does feel weirdly at odds with making saving throws better which makes things take longer. Like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing with respect to the aim of the new rules.

>>53052099
Maybe its because I'm waking up,Why not just use a d20? Or if it gets that cray a % die and d10.

>>53041925
I once played a game in whfb where one 55 point skaven engineer blew 1200 points of my high elves in the very first turn, and about 1000 points of them was due to units breaking and falling back. It was hilarious.

>>53042658
Please yes, I love the look of both.

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>>53050827
Orks get mob rule to punch each other for extra wounds. They are really fired up!

>>53050165
The trick is having the barrel end just as the bullet runs out of acceleration. An unnecessarily long barrel will cause the bullet to slow down due to drag along the barrel, as well as the bullet having to force the air in front of it out of the barrel, creating a pressure build up in the wrong direction.

>>53053281
D20, unless using magic's life counters, are annoying to find the numbers.

Also they roll around a bunch

>>53053275
I wouldn't say saving throws are much better, they just are more granulated due to it actually existing in levels rather than AP cutting it out completely out of the equations.

>>53050831
Just necron them until the end odd the turn (lie down casualties)

My Chaos Space Marines better be getting ATSKNF

>>53054767
Yeah but now more things get saves in general, instead of weapons just flat out ignoring armor.

>>53053745
I really hope that GDubs will not allow whoever was in charge of orks 7th to do new rules for orks.

Here I am hoping for:
>7th ed Mob rule is dumped into burning promethium lake and now you benefit LD-wise from having a crapton of boyz. Bosspole allows you to smack 1 boy instead of losing many when failing LD test.
>Less random, or at least fixed random. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a bit of random involved, but not when it is "worst case scenario you crash on the ground and burn, best case scenario something that similar units from other codexes can accomplish happens"
>More unit and equipment variety. Orks are supposed to be hot stuff in melee fluff-wise, why so little melee weapon choices? Boyz have really sick chainswords/chainaxes(buzzchoppas) in the box, here I am hoping that they will become a thing supported by rules. It's kinda sad how the most unorthodox and unorganised army in 40k is so strict with options and gear choices. Why can't meganobs have a big shoota for example?

>>53040875
pinning would most like be just a "force you to not move and shoot"

>>53041322
leak images seem to be the numarines are just 1k sons scale models with new gear

>>53040875

I doubt pinning will even be in the game. The new rules 'book' is only 12 pages long.

>>53042615
AoS low leadership armies all have ways to deal with it, larger numbers rise leadership, banners, leader abilities ect

>>53055312
Rules like that will probably be given on unit/weapon datasheets rather than in the core rules.

>>53040904
In Age of Sigmar there are mob modifiers. Every 10 models gives you a +1 to your leadership.

So a group of orks with, let's say 6 Leadership would be 7 Leadership with 10 orks, 8 with 20, 9 with 30, etc.

>>53040875
>No word on how leadership will affect things like pinning yet, but that's probably in unit specific rules with pinning weapons
It could work same as moral checks. D6+casualties, only failure is can't move and shoot or something instead of removing models.

It'd make pinning vary in effectiveness based on how many casualties you inflict.

>>53055388
In theory, if orks have leadership 5-6, a nob with a bosspole providing +1 to battleshock and 30 boyz they'll have a leadership value of around 9-10.

>>53055460
Exactly, which means they'll have to lose 5 boyz to have a chance to lose more, or lose 10 to have a definite "Lose 1d6 boyz"

>>53055491
Losing 10 boyz is not a difficult prospect.

>>53040847
Not just low-leadership.
ANY horde units are fucked.

>>53052960
...git gud?

>>53055622
>5+ infantry list of blobs of Kriegers

Looks like I'm more fucked in 8th than I was in 7th. At least tanks are good now.

>>53056280
Well now you'll finally have a reason to bring those incredible Krieg Commissars.

>>53050592

>Going first in CC now depends on who charged

This can go fuck itself.

>>53056428
nah its cool. it rewards out maneuvering your opponent.

>>53049700

Comparing a 25mm to a .22 is a strawman, the 25mm will always have greater range cause its, I don't know, bigger?

You're dumb.

>>53057181
but the charge range is random.

how does that make any sense?

>>53053459
>one 55 point skaven engineer blew 1200 points of my high elves in the very first turn

he must have one purty mouth to give that many bjs

>>53057422
it's not completely random

each distance is correlated with a risk; management of risks is part of the gameplay

>>53057457
if it was movement+d6 that would make sense

but 2d6 kills any strategy.

>>53057477
2d6 allows strategy, playing to minimize risk.

With premeasuring there needs to be some unreliability in movement or it just becomes a game of tacticless geometry.

>>53057477
a single d6 is jackshit as a variable

>>53053034
It's interesting because you have strategic options related to it, maximizing it or taking risks with less leadership.

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>>53052827
In midnight clad, brother

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>>53054871
We wont, we will suffer from supposed pragmatism and have to buy VoTLW to stay on the field

>>53058242
Nah senpai if SWAG is any indication you're getting 1= ld from Mark of Chaos Undivided

>>53057477
In a system with movement + d6 charge range, a marine with 6" movement would have a 12 + d6" (min 13", max 18") assault range including their regular movement. A hypothetical unit with 12" movement (perhaps of a motorcycle variety) would have an assault range of 24 + d6" (min 25", max 30"). In such a system, differences in movement stats become increasingly pronounced. I, for one, don't think such a system makes for good gameplay.