What's the superior apocalypse currency? I vote bullets.

>>53024078
Cigarettes.

Handjobs.

>>53024078
Toilet paper.

Comfort is a valuable commodity in a non-industrial world.

>>53024078
Whatcha GOT, scav?

>>53024127
I really like this idea.

The bottlecaps from fallout as a currency backed by the water guild or whatever is a pretty cool idea too.

I really like the idea of books as well. Post apocalypse you're going to have what amounts to a paleolithic to iron age setting, but with an absurdly high literacy rate. Books are going to be a important form of entertainment.

Bullets less so. With a variety of calibers, they're not as easily interchangeable as other currencies.

>>53024104
So I have to give a lot of handjobs or give very good handjobs?

>>53024185

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln342caKBHs

>>53024127
>using easily destroyed things as currency

>>53024185
Sorry, but bottlecaps are a terrible idea.

It's ridiculous having to carry 10k bottlecaps. I mean, imagine the scene: a guy comes with a huge bag full of bottlecaps, put it on the table and says 'please give me that gun'.

Even better is buying an item who costs 5794 caps. 'Wait a second while I count the caps'.

Currency needs to be something useable or easy to carry. Carrying junk is a no-no.

>>53024206
Don't be silly, you trade wooden chits as handjob vouchers.

Markets can be unstable and mutants with multiple hands have a tendency to cause deflation. The government has started cutting off peoples hands to fight deflation, but it might be a while before we see it's effects on the market.

>>53024266

So what you are saying is, is that all trade is ultimately based upon prostitution, and that brothels act as banks which give out vouchers that can be redeemed for sexual services and these vouchers are used as currency? While people not associated with the brothels can attempt to do direct trade, at some risk of having authority figures come down on them hard for "counterfeiting"

Well it makes more sense than bottle caps I'll give you that.

>>53024263
It's not junk. It's just fiat currency that uses caps instead of bills. It's backed by your faith in the water merchants to turn your caps into bottles of water.

You only have to carry around 10k bottle caps if the currency is valued that low. It obviously doesn't work in a setting with easy access to clean drinking water. But in a desert setting where the already scarce water is likely to be contaminated, they might be work ten times their weight in gold.

>>53024323
>It's just fiat currency that uses caps instead of bills.
Okay, why not use something else that it's actually easy to carry?

Fiat currencies were used to make people lives easier, not harder.

>You only have to carry around 10k bottle caps if the currency is valued that low.
You mean every Fallout game?

Whatever people want. There's not going to be a currency as we know it without a government to standardize it

>>53024371
Something that everyone finds valuable but not inherently useful on its own.

>>53024371
You are proposing barter. But barter will be done away as soon as a first degree of stability is achieved to make the survivors lives easier.

>>53024323
>They might be worth ten times their weight in gold
Not with as how common bottle caps are.

>>53024414
Only if there is a power that can actually back up that new currency.

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>>53024078
I also vote bullets, assuming prices are relatively sane.

>>53024390
There could be a lot of such things. The anon you replied is right, without an institution it's back to exchanging goods.

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>>53024266
>you trade wooden chits as handjob vouchers
This just might be the most batshit insane idea I've ever seen on /tg/.

>>53024371
A government is just whichever group has the military power to enforce its own laws.

As soon as the warlords settle down a bit, they'll most likely legitimise whatever commodity people have already been trading as the de facto currency.

>>53024466
What would people be trading before they came in power? Not a standard currency. The government would have to create it, then convince people that it has a value via the government.

>>53024357
Bottle caps are easy to carry.
>You mean every Fallout game?
I said it was a good idea, not that it was implemented well.
>>53024416
Not particularly hard to control the currency. If the caps are worthless you have guild flunkies collect all the ones in an area, before announcing it as a currency.

You still might be better off just using something else like chits or coins that you can control easier. Caps were a more convenient currency to have lying around a wasteland.

>>53024466
Last post-apocalyptic game I had, the local "democratically elected" warlord used food vouchers. If you don't work, you don't eat.

>>53024078
Gold.
>can't be made
>easy to conceal
>resistant to corrosion
>rare AF

I had this idea that, albeit dumb, kinda tickled me in an interesting way.
>post apocalypse
>some semblance of order returning
>a group has reclaimed and rebuilt a hydroelectric plant/other electricity producing utility
>phones are in circulation again, but instead of using telecommunication towers they work on shortwave ala radios
>currency is literally electricity and controlled by the Electric group
>people gain electricity by trading resources to them for credit which is uploaded to the phone and kept on record
>credit can also be traded for battery packs, to allow portable charging
>through the use of an app, you can transfer credit to one another for use in purchases/sales
>some people have set up alternate methods of power, such as solar and air, and are either self sustaining groups or competing with the major Elec group.

i like the idea of a currency that is also ingrained in day to day use. Something you have to decide between saving for purchases or using for personal comfort. It's pretty dumb I'll admit, but I like it.

>>53024185
>>53024263
>>53024323
>>53024357
>>53024416

The problem with bottle-caps is that there's only one denomination of currency.

Before we had paper money there were all kinds of denominations of coins: If you wanted to buy an apple you paid in coppers or whatever, but if you were an aristo buying a new horse or a new wing for your family mansion, then you'd pay in guineas or gold doubloons or what-not.

Carrying tens of thousands of (insert currency) worth of gold coins is a lot more practical than carrying it in ha'pennies or farthings.

>>53024078
There wouldn't be an accepted currency in a apocalypse as an agreed upon currency needs stability to succeed. The post apocalypse would have coins made of various precious metals made by new governments. Nothing legitimizes leadership like putting your face on currency and having a monopoly on violence.

>>53024494
Before minted coins, people often traded in grain and cattle. There's no reason a post-apocalyptic society couldn't do the same, using basic produce for everyday transactions, and livestock for more expensive deals.

Then along comes Lord GunSkull, sees this system working just fine, and says "okay, this is what we use," and proceeds to build all his laws around the exchange of produce and livestock.

>>53024494
Before a government came to power, there generally isn't a currency, just bartering.

Water/gasoline/bullets might be the most used trade goods.

There wouldn't be currency. There would be trade of materials based on their perceived value against each other.

>>53024606
Maybe. Depends on how close to the edge of survival people are.

I can't eat, drink or protect myself with gold.

>>53024254
>we used easily destroyed cash as currency

>>53024653
That is the only problem with caps. The only solution i can see is using scales to weigh mass amounts of caps fot large purchases

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>>53024676
This. There is no currency without agreed societal norms, which don't exist.

>But bullets are something everyone could use and therefore are universally valuable
1.) No, not everyone can use bullets
2.) Munitions are not universal, and in fact, a lot of guns use proprietary or distinct cartriges.
3.) Anything mass manufactured post-society either stops existing or becomes insanely expensive
4.) If ammunition becomes currency somehow despite this, firearms must ALSO become currency as well, or there is no market, because the base ammunition has no real value. Again, post-society, fiat currency folds immediately. If you can't use it, it is, by definition, useless. This just takes you right back to point #1, #2, and #3 again.

>>53024731
Well, yes; but it still means that someone has to lug 50, 000 caps (or whatever) around from whatever strong-room he was storing them in to the merchant selling the very expensive thing. All without getting mugged by someone spotting the guy moving a huge chest of caps.

A practical currency is one you could use buy both a house and an apple. Mono-denominational currencies only work if they're digital, so I can carry millions of them as easily as just one, and if I want to buy something worth less than one I can trade 0.3 of a dogecoin or what-have-you.

Physical currencies really need to have different denominations, otherwise they're either too valuable for me to buy a single apple, or not valuable enough that I can practically carry enough of them to buy a house.

>>53024640
Energy is the currency of the future.
t. Alpha Centauri

>>53024317
>While people not associated with the brothels can attempt to do direct trade, at some risk of having authority figures come down on them hard for "counterfeiting"
Not counterfucking? Missed opportunities here.

>>53025312
Is it weird that I really like this idea?
Most because you'd have guild enforcers beating up women, and men, trying to cut into their hand job monopoly.

>>53024078
Condoms for variety of reasons

>>53024839
Back when people actually bought houses with coins, they tended not to actually carry a chest of coins. They had someone bring it by in a cart later, once the deal was done.

>>53025364
It sounds exactly like an Apocalypse World Magical Realm scenario.

>>53024696
If you're already going back to the stage where you need a currency,you have gone very far from edge of survival.

>>53025418
So essentially Gor?

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>>53024104
>pic related walks to your store and asks for a pack of cigarettes
How many handjobs will that be?

>>53024317
>brothels act as banks which give out vouchers that can be redeemed for sexual services and these vouchers are used as currency
We're onto something here.

Depends on how many people would be willing to readily believe in a FIAT currency again. Look at the reasons people developed currency in the first place in human history, the hurdles thereof (like banks not honouring the notes of other banks, banks going under and making all their notes valueless, etc) and you'll see that it would be very unlikely that people would use bullets or TP as currency. Money exists to facilitate trade, and it's difficult to have money that also functions as something else, especially something that's consumed when used, because of the effects of deflation. Money and TP as currency SOUNDS like an okay or cool idea, but the fact is that it would be ill suited to the role for a number of reasons.

>>53026483

*Bullets and TP as currency

Fuck me.

>>53024078
You know, depending on the scale of the apocalypse, it would hit one of two things.
The first (extreme apocalypse) is outright a barter system. Services, and useful products ranging from everything.
The second is the original currency system based on the direct trade of precious metals (gold, silver etc. coins)-for medium apocalypse.

Or at least, that is what would be realistic.
We wouldn't invent a brand new currency for falling back as a civilization. We would just take up the older versions.

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I don't know what these are but I have this inexplicable desire to obtain more of them.

>>53026553

>The first (extreme apocalypse) is outright a barter system.

There is no historical evidence that a barter economy ever existed, even in primitive societies. It's a meme.

>>53026607
What are trade of goods without government giving currency system that is standardized.

>>53024653
One time during a game the GM described payment as coins to fill most of a room and I just felt like it was needless even with bags of holding. Just fork over a few gemstones or something

>>53024317
>>53026243
Schismatrix, by Bruce Sterling. Geisha-bank

>>53024730
Cash doesn't dissolve like the wicked witch of the West when it comes into contact with water
A substance that is so nessessary that going without it will kill you faster than going without food

>>53026738

DAMMIT, WHY IS THERE NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN!

>>53026673

Give me a real world example of this happening.

>>53026774

Who are the trobrianders of new guinea, and how did they exist prior to contact with westerners?

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>56 replies
>ctrl+f "salt"

Ya'll niggas dumb as fuck.

>>53026864
Pah. What else are you going to offer, bags of rice?

>>53026864
Hey look, I see some highlights for salt from ctrl-f.
Were you trying to imply no one had mentioned salt yet?
I thin at least one person did.

>>53026922
Are you perhaps insinuating that something like fucking bottle caps or gold coins are better form of currency than salt?

>>53024606
Oh, look, brain dead goldbug woke up. Gold would be fucking worthless as it's useless besides looking pretty. In WW2, in occupied countries, people were fucking paying gold coins for big ham (or even fucking half of bread in nazi ghettos). Even bullets, though stupid, are vastly better idea because they are useful (not only for shooting, you can lit a fire with gunpowder, make good fishing weight from bullet, or small knife from case) in post-apocalyptic setting. Hell, even fucking caps would be better as they are light, hard to counterfeit, and, both metal or plastic, have uses gold will never have...

>>53024078
Which bullets and how are they valued? whats the exchange rate between .22 and 5.56? Is 30-06 more valuable than 7.62x51 because it has a longer case and more brass or is 7.62 worth more because its used in far more modern semi-automatics and machine guns and thus would have a higher demand?

I really don't think something as complicated as bullets would be used as currency.

>>53026864

Just because Rome did it doesn't mean we have to. There are a multitude of real world nations that didn't.

>>53026953
I would prefer something that won't be ruined by a rain, thank you very much

>>53027137
Depends on guns in the area. Exchange rates are negotiated with bullet sellers

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>>53024078

What about Not!Pokemon Cards ? People echanges trading cards, a simple card worths 1, a golden card worths 10 and a shiny card worth 100. It could be something cultural like baseball cards or MtG or Pokemon, etc

>>53024078
>implying society in an apocalyptic setting would use currency and wouldn't just revert into a barter economy

>>53024839
You can't buy a house with bills today either. It's incredibly impractical so we have banks.

>>53027753
And of course so did they, or temples which acted as banks.

They keep your money in their coffers for safekeeping, keep track of how much you own, and act as adjudicators for financial transactions.

(Of course even earlier there was the state run Palace Economies.)

Petrol, food, water, medicine would probably be the most valuable commodities so those.

>>53027458
>mtg
>pokemon
>culture
keked. Those are world wide cards.

>>53024254
You mean like grain, pelts, tulip bulbs, livestock, and seashells? I agree, what kind of retard would make THOSE currency?

>>53028012
>petrol
I think you mean "Guzzline", smeg.

>>53024494
The same things, except in flesh.
If you create a currency backed by meat, once there's a government you don't need to carry a swine around, instead you deposit it in a bank-farm and get a bill that can be exchanged at any time in any amount in any other bank for said swine.

>>53026774
Fixing my neighbor's car for a bottle of homebrew booze.

>>53024078
Bartering

.>53027042
>fucking paying gold coins for big ham
You have disproved your argument in your own post.

>>53026774
Rural Greece had been reduced to bartering for a few years due to the financial crisis.

>>53028473
The point is that converting money into gold then using it after the societal collapse is a bad option when you can spend said money on a large amount of imperishable goods which will be more useful than a limited amount of gold-based purchasing power in a serious post-apocalypitic scenario. Gold loses value in comparison to other goods with societal collapse by virtue of having no use, as well as most people underestimating the cost of gold and thus making trades like "ring for a couple bags of flour" seem reasonable to the one with the flour.

>>53024782
>1.) No, not everyone can use bullets
People used to trade in gold even though they weren't jewelers, what's your point?

>2.) Munitions are not universal, and in fact, a lot of guns use proprietary or distinct cartriges.
Not really, there's only like 5 standard NATO calibers and the soviets didn't have that much more variety either. And on the civilian market while there's technically an insane amount of variety in cartridges the market still focuses around several common calibers, most of them the standard nato calibers mentioned above.

>3.) Anything mass manufactured post-society either stops existing or becomes insanely expensive
Why?

>4.) If ammunition becomes currency somehow despite this, firearms must ALSO become currency as well, or there is no market, because the base ammunition has no real value.
It's much easier to build a gun then it is to produce finely machined brass casings that will properly interact with the gun as it's supposed to and not cause malfunctions. You could build a gun out of two properly sized pipes and a nail if you really wanted to, there's never going to be any shortage of guns so they'd make a terrible currency.

>If you can't use it, it is, by definition, useless.
But you can use it: to defend your life. And isn't your life the most valuable thing of all? Seems like a firmer backing then some dickhead politician promising they won't fire up the presses too much and cause hyperinflation, rendering your paper "money" utterly worthless.

>>53026483
>it's difficult to have money that also functions as something else, especially something that's consumed when used
Here's an idea: the complete cartridges (technically the bit at the ends the bullet) aren't the currency, the bullet casing that holds all the other components together is. It's not expended when shot, instead it can actually be re-used and the only reason not everybody does that is because fresh factory produced ammunition is so cheap and readily available and people are lazy. And while lead is a fairly common metal that's also quite easy to work with due to it's low melting temperature, gunpownder can be as simple as mixing saltpetre and sugar and primers can theoretically be made by someone with a limited knowledge of chemistry the casings are a whole different matter. In real life they're mass manufactured in factories using fairly modern techniques, beyond what somebody could just easily improvise. Also I don't even think it's possible for one dedicated person to just make a bullet casing out of some brass using simple hand tools, they sure as hell wouldn't be able to do it fast enough to keep up with how fast they'd be used. Kind of stupid having a guy work for five weeks to produce about 5 minutes worth of gunfire, and that's what you'd be dealing with given how exact the work would have to be for the cases to be any good, if you could even do this which I doubt.

>>53024078
Seeds and canned food, maybe?

>>53026953
the bottlecaps in Fallout were backed by water.

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>>53029824
>the bottlecaps in Fallout were backed by water.
This.
In Fallout 1, caps were backed by the large water reserves of merchants at the Hub. The commonality of caps around the wasteland for a good while meant you an ample supple to work off of already, plus the existing caps were extremely hard to counterfeit in large numbers without an official press (which were EXTREMELY rare post-war and almost entirely in the hands of the merchants).
Add in the small weight of individual caps and their rather high durability and you got a decent replacement for old world coins (which recovering the technology of the wasteland couldn't yet reproduce in mass quantities). While definitely not perfect, they were a serviceable stop-gap.

By the time of Fallout 2, people generally used regular paper money produced by the NCR. This paper money was backed by their substantial gold reserves. Caps were still around of course, but generally were only used in areas where the NCR hadn't yet spread.

Fallout 3 went back to caps because Bethesda hasn't played the games. Granted, the East Coast wouldn't of had the NCR dollar (the NCR being based in California; only in NV, many decades later, had it reached Nevada), but they also shouldn't of had caps (which were backed by an entity literally a whole continent away). Maybe there was someone in or near DC who also backed caps?
Bethesda isn't really clear on the lore here.

Fallout NV used caps as well, stating that the NCR gold reserves were all irradiated by the Brotherhood of Steel to the point of uselessness, sending the value of their currency through the floor and forcing people back to the old standard, water-backed caps. The NCR dollar is still around, but it's just paper at this point.
The Legion, oddly enough, has functioning printing presses and actually produces coins out of rare metals such as silver and gold. These generally hold their value even outside of Legion territory.

>>53030842
>wouldn't of had
>shouldn't of had

Instead of "of", it's proper to say "have".

>>53030842
If there was an equivalent of the Hub in DC, then your idiotic goal in f3 would be even more idiotic where you fight to cause hyperinflation, because uhhh?? and erm???
Watur for eberyun! I iz scientistic!

>>53028055
Only one of those was ever a currency.

>>53031070
I know, but generally I talk and write quite informally. I prefer the sounds of "sh/wouldn't of had" to the correct form you posted. Just a matter of personal preference on my part. I know I'm wrong, but I don't intend to quit any time soon.

I'm also quite sleep-deprived right now and wrote and rewrote that post for longer than I should have. If you would be so kinda as to excuse as errors I would be most appreciative.

>>53031153
Actually grain, sea shells, and pelts have all been used as money at some point or other.

For example the shekel of memes originally referred to a weight of barley used as currency.

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>>53024078
After a while you'd likely see quarters, dimes, nickels and pennies being used as currency, but their value would be much greater than what it is right now.

>>53024078
On that note, what's the best Metro to play? I've got both regular and Redux versions of both games.

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>>53031153
Fun fact: The slang term "buck" for a dollar is because of when buck pelts were used as currency.

Roughcut diamonds are the closest thing to a universal currency in war-torn Africa, because the jewelry companies will reliably pay anyone who has them. So, any resource that allows the majority to trade with whomever is doing the best of the bunch, maybe well enough to value things of no practical value, like jewels.

>>53031791
There's a more glaring uncanny valley effect in Redux, largely because while the textures/lighting/shaders have drastically been upgraded, most of the facial animation and emoting remain unchanged. There are some other minute changes here and there, but they're negligible and don't impact the game in any meaningful way. Redux is the way to IMO.

some kind of coinage made from the tin from food cans, linking their value to the value of the food the can they're made from once contained. Some Native Americans traded 'wompum', which were beads carved from clam-shells, which linked the value of the beads to the food-value of the clams.

>>53032031
Oh yeah, the dubs changed too. The original came across as authentic slavs- Redux is a traditional English cast imitating Slav accents and every third person is Steve Blum. A bit more noticeable.

>>53032031
That's fine, uncanny valley doesn't really bug me. I'm more wondering about 2033 vs Last Light

>>53032235
2033 has more of a "man vs environment" feel. Last Light was "man vs man."

Themewise, I prefer the original, and would have liked to see more exploration of the metro, even if Last Light did have some amazing bits.

Also, the stations are all brilliant in both games. Theatre, Market, Venice... they all do wonderful jobs of showing the adaptation of humans to the metro.

>>53031153
>Grain
Used as currency with records going as far back as 9,000 BCE.
>Pelts
Throughout the colonization of the US and Canada, you could easily exchange valuable animal pelts (particularly deer and beaver) for goods and services. often more easily than for any recognized governemtn approved currency.
>Tulip Bulbs
You know how middle aged women went absolutely insane over beanie babies in the late 90's? well, starting in 1637, the Dutch had a brief period of cultural insanity, where some Tulip Bulbs were suddenly worth more than 10 times the salary of a skilled craftsman. it's the earliest recorded speculation bubble.
>Livestock
"I WILL GIVE YOU THIRTY GOAT FOR YOUR WOMAN!" more than just a /pol/ impersonation of a sex-starved islamist, it's how most negotiations went in the middle east before there was a commonly accepted currency. Goats and Camels were popular bartering medium, with generally accepted values relative to common goods and services.
>seashells
In africa they were legal tender until the mid 19th century. China used to use them as a common currency for trading with India,
and: as a bonus
>Chocolate
The Maya evidently used Cacao beans as a form of currency, so heavily that there have been counterfeit cacao beans made out of hardened clay and painted extracted from archeological sites.

>>53024078
Alien scalps.

>>53024664
Praise be to Lord Gunskull, emperor of gun

>>53024078
Food, everything else is less important.

Nails as coins.
Nuts and bolts as bills.

>>53032797
Alien scalps contain valuable nanomachines and can, with the proper equipment, be rendered down into a thin paste which if applied to a wound (internal or external) will dramatically increase the rate at which it heals, or if ingested will cure most diseases caused by infections. In their raw form they're edible, highly nutritious, taste great and if eaten raw will clean your teeth for you while also mending cavities.

Dank memes.

>>53027458
>Not!Pokemon
>NotNotPokemom
>Exactly Pokemon
>Mention not Pokemon cards
Your examples are flawed

>>53026774
I bartered a meal for an MtG prerelease entry fee the other day.

>>53031748
I was going to post barter, but then I saw this post and I really like the idea. It hits that spot between plausible and creative to make it a neat idea that isn't too far out there.

>>53026774
I once traded my copy of Lego Star Wars for a copy of Bully.

>>53024078
Putting a vote in for gas or other fuels. If your setting is particularly grimdark, water.

>>53032623
>>seashells
Didn't the Portuguese harvest them in mass using their superior seamanship, then intentionally flood the market to crash that regions economy?

>>53029224
Obscurum:Pandemic has shell casings used as currency.

Again, any post-apocalyptic currency will basically just be a barter system, OR there will be a government (of sorts) backing it and it may as well not be post-apocalyptic anymore. That's more of a post-post-apocalypse scenario.

Some examples I like...

>Bullets. Something may cost, say, [X] .223 rounds, and the parties involved can haggle over what exactly that translates to in .44 or .38. Since .223 is ludicrously common? I'd say that would be the 'basic' unit... maybe?

>Wet wipes, tampons, sanitary pads. Because people need those, ESPECIALLY if we're talking a scenario where water is contaminated and it's difficult to bathe or clean clothes/rags.

>Cigarettes/joints/meth. Drugs that are lightweight, difficult to produce, and are often consumed meaning inflation is (somewhat) in check.

>Spices, seeds, rare foodstuffs. If there's an actual culture developing then stuff like saffron and oregano might be in high demand. You might see people carrying around 20g of dried chilli and using that to pay for their water.)


Of course, water, food, etc are all valuable and would be traded, but they aren't quite as compact, are consumed at a faster rate, may potentially go bad and would hyperinflate as more people became self-sufficient. 500ml of water is worth a lot less after people figure out how to create a (dead simple) filter to get radioactive debris out of river water.

All currency has to have a centralized backing. Otherwise it is simply barter by another name.

Bullets? I don't need them, I'm a simple family man. Most of the people in this community jas no use for them. Caravaners need them but they aren't trading everything away for them and can't buy new wares with them. They'd need to habe something people want.

In a non-centrelized post apocalypse it will ALWAYS be barter. Medicine, Gas, Food, Water, and tools (notably fire making tools or weapons) will be the most valuable.
In a centrelized group it will simply be whatever those in power choose that is hard to counterfeit. They have all of the power so they can essentially tax everyone in food and resources or currency then sell it to others for whatever currency they decide. They set fines in the currency and thus people are forced to abide the centrelized currency or be killed/imprisoned

>>53033346
>People haggling over what bullets equal what other calibers
>All backed by the bullet worth twice it's weight in gold, 22 Long Rifle.

>>53033842
Careful anon, next you'll be saying that fiat currency is superior to material-backed. I'd prefer for this thread to not be derailed by anarcho-capitalists looking to show off their sophomore economics knowledge.

>>53033917
>22 Long Rifle

No such caliber exists, scav

>>53026144
What the fuck is that?

>>53024078
But then they can shoot you and take the rest of your stuff.

>>53034989
Or you could shoot them and take the rest of their stuff.

>>53034606
High level druid.

>>53033919
I was just ballparking how it works. It seems obvious material backed is superior since creating arbitrary monitary values for money is unstable

>>53035872
That's literally the point of fiat-backing. You destabilize your currency to give greater control over the value, allowing easier action to counteract inflationary/deflationary crises.

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>>53024078
>mfw I'm currently replaying the first game

The Redux version is neato, but they really botched some parts of it.

How did banking work during the renaissance? I assume you'd literally have the one bank you used, and they'd lock your cold cash up in a box, but how did you prove your identity when you showed up later to withdraw the moolah?

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>>53024237
>Unironically posts a link to Shit theory
Kill yourself

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>>53024078
>I vote bullets
My fucking nigga.

Virtual currency only interchangeable through PDAs.

>>53033919
>anarcho-capitalists looking to show off their sophomore economics knowledge.

That's a violation of the NAP
*sends child soldiers to kill anon*

>>53032623
I've never understood the seashells thing.

>>53032902
>alien scalps represent a dead fucking xenos and anyone who can present one deserves whatever the hell they want for having helped rid the galaxy of that filth
FTFY

DEUS-IMPERATOR VULT!

>>53024078
Trading.
Currency sucks.

>>53033346
>>Cigarettes/joints/meth. Drugs that are lightweight, difficult to produce, and are often consumed meaning inflation is (somewhat) in check.
Weed wouldn't be all that difficult to produce in a post-apocalyptic scenario seeing as you wouldn't have to worry about the cops anymore. Look at how many people keep herb and vegetable gardens, it wouldn't be much tougher then that it's just a fucking plant, same with tobacco.

Meth on the other hand would make a good currency because it requires very specific and perhaps rare materials to produce as well as at least a limited knowledge of chemistry so you don't fuck up and waste the materials. Also it's very size and weight efficient due to how potent it is, and as actual practical uses in such a scenario given how it would help you with moving long distances, going without food, staying alert for long times, all quite useful things. Shame about the brain damage and possibility of stimulant psychosis though, but perhaps that wold help encourage people to be more reluctant to use their money rather then trade with it.

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Compressed bricks of tea, like God intended

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>>53035872
>since creating arbitrary monitary values for money is unstable
Where could you have possibly gotten that idea from anon? Stupid an-caps making up scenarios that never happen so their stupid ideas work.

>>53024573

Not to out myself as some shit-teir pleb that watched TV, but Negan did the same thing. Points.

You worked, and each hour of work was worth a certain number of points. Everything had a value. Simple.

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>>53035991
>ou destabilize your currency to give greater control over the value, allowing easier action to counteract inflationary/deflationary crises.
Just as the wonderful nation of zimbabwe has demonstrated for us, thank god for fiat currency.

>>53024078
Processed rubber as lowest denomination. Comes in either cut coins or tire chunks.

Paper for medium currency, measured by weight. Only needs a waterproof case to properly protect, and having stuff to write on is invaluable.

Spices as the highest denomination, of which tea bricks reign again as the most practical.

>>53027458

I actually really like this. In fact the more I think about it the more I like it.
>Childhood /prepocolypse nostalgia to all the survivors
>Impossible to reproduce
>Different denominations
>Already used for trading
>can be stacked, lightweight
>just cheesy but plausible enough to be interesting

>>53038222
I find them too fragile, though. If you're using them in small enough numbers that counting isn't a chore, it's hard to protect them.

Unless everyone carried binders as their wallets, and that is NOT practical.

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>>53038235

Everyone would carry them in those little plastic deck boxes instead of wallets, but being able to stack them up is useful.

Also I could see finding an unopened pre-war pack of cards as being something incredible for people, that guaranteed rare card in there is like worth 10 of the normal cards!

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>>53038047
>He doesn't know how to use the three seashells

>>53026483
>believe
Belief has nothing to do with it. Just look at all the idiots screaming about fiat currency, yet gatting paid, storing their wealth and doing their business dealing in fiat. It is backed by the government and as long as you have a gubmint with taxing powers, it works.

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>>53038047
Basically all the same values as precious metals or gems: they're pretty and can be used to make pretty things.

Being able to make expensive dyes from them in rare colors was also a plus for certain shells.

>>53033842
>Bullets? I don't need them, I'm a simple family man.
So what you plan to do when a raider comes for your family? Throw your shoes at him?

>>53039023
In Metro, I think the bullet economy was maintained by Hansa and Polis.

Hansa likes the bullets because they can use them for their guards, maintaining their control of the ring, protect their caravans from mutants, raiders, and the Nazis and Commies. (Of course, they mostly prefer to use the MGR to produce more dirty rounds)

Polis likes them because their Kshatriya (Stalkers) do a lot of scavenging up on the surface, where there's even worse mutants. So MGR become especially important.

This of course makes some sense. While to your average station goer, using a MGR to buy a sausage may seem strange, the fact is that most rounds end up buying stuff recovered from the surface eventually. Lightbulbs, cables, books, etc.

>>53026761
Innovation is a meme, gotta mix stuff to get new tastes.

It's been a long time since I played the game and an even longer time since I've read the books.

In the Metro 2033 game it was specified that only high quality military bullets that were produced before the war are proper currency, but in the books just about any bullets were used as currency, right?

Which one of the two do you prefer?

>>53039398

The game was because it was a fun game mechanic; military-grade rounds meant that you had an interesting choice between increasing your firepower by like 33% and making your gun completely reliable for until you run out of ammunition, or buying better stuff. Except you only have to choose for the fancy bullets. Trading regular bullets for MGR is such bad value that you don't do dumb shit and accidentally sell all your shit to buy something OP and then die before you see more bullets.

It also made it interesting for the player who'd never choose to use MGR. If you are a super-scavenger and horader eventually you may fuck up and be in a situation where you have run out of regular bullets for your good gun. Do you try and win with the knife, run away, or shoot to radically increase your chances of surviving while fully aware that you are literally shooting money at them?

>>53039160

Also, in both cases, every bullet traded in means one less bullet in a raider's gun, being fired at Hansa or Polis men. It is a neat circle of establishing a backed currency of a scarce resource that can only be made by entities powerful enough to not want to rock the boat, while securing a resource vital to your control, while depriving it from those who would fight your control, and you can 'cash it in' on a run to the surface to get more stuff to trade for more rounds.

The Metro books also had trading everywhere, it was just Hansa's explicit backing of the bullet economy meant that while you may get a raw deal trading your spare Kalash for that guy's sweet armoured vest or half a book on basic engineering or fifty slices of bread, you are pretty confident of what it's worth in bullets because you asked a Hansa affiliated trader a year ago.

>>53039624
Russian BuMP...

>>53024653
You'd likely not carry that amount.
Assuming that bottle caps were all of a certain size, and resistant enough to last, it would generate a market for measuring tools.

Things like chests that can fit exactly 1000 bottle caps. Even assuming there's gazilionaires, or that large unpractical amounts of caps are necessary to buy certain things, that doesn't impossibilitate the currency.

You'd invest in physical property to prevent hording of caps, and you simply wouldn't instantly purchase highly priced things. There'd be systems for the transport of caps

>>53038129
The German hyperinflation of the 20s was a result of the damage their economy and currency reserves suffered in WW1 (read: they sold all their gold for arms and their economy collapsed from the blockade) crippling their ability to pay reparations without printing excessive amounts of new currency to spend on foreign currency to pay reparations with, which caused said hyperinflation (caught between a rock and a hard place, except the rock is their economy crashing from hyperinflation and the hard place is the Entente ruining your day for not paying denbts), not a result of leaving the gold standard.

You'll note that Germany ditched the gold standard in 31, right before their economy got back on track. Not a coincidence.

Equivalents of dust from Endless Legend and spice from Dune could also work as examples of good unobtainium-type currencies for post-apoc settings, with a plus of not being mundane stuff, so you could add all sorts of crazy storytelling stuff based on and around them.

>>53038115
At least somebody with some damn class in this post-nuclear hellhole

>>53024078
Bottlecaps.

I like how often gold is suggested by people in these kinds of threads when its only value is after an apocalypse is already over. Makes me feel good knowing that these same retards will be begging to trade with my for my bulk supplies of bullets, lighters, and toilet paper should shit ever hit the fan.

>>53024185
>>53024127

It's a pretty dumb idea to use toilet paper because people will just be using water to wash their butt in the case of a shortage.

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>>53031143
>>Having a semi-functional currency
>>not dying of thirst in an irradiated hell desert
>pick one

>>53024185
Bottle caps made sense in fallout 1.
In fallout 2, their was gold-backed NCR dollars.

Barter economy, you fucking nerds.
Bullets, alcohol,small tools, cigaretes,canned food, and fuck, even gold and jewlery (Though to a lesser extent) will all be goods worth trading.

>>53032493
it helps when the writing chops are top tier

>>53034606
Warts. No joke

>>53024078
Bartering, minted coins or bank notes.

Some of you are overestimating how complex technology is. It wouldn't be too difficult for a society to reach a mix between 19th and 20th century technological infrastructure and have it be sustainable.

It's not like you need the tools to build the tools to build an AK, unlike an iPad.

>>53055513
How can that be warts? It looks like skin ossification.

>>53057055
It's not warts but "tree man ilness" - Epidermodysplasia verruciformis

>>53055383
>gold
What would you do with a bar of gold when you are starving in the wasteland?

>"Hey you, do you want to trade this bar of gold for some food?"
>"What does it do?"
>"It's... pretty I guess."
>"Right. Sorry, I'm keeping my canned food. Take care!"

>>53057083
It's both. Epidermodysplacia verruciformis makes you more susceptible to HPV strains, which cause warts.

It's just that in severe cases, horn-like keritinized tumours/neoplasms grow.

>>53024078
thats fucking retarded.
We are never going to run out of bullets.
EVER.
There are literally BILLIONS of bullets.
Don't they teach you anything about the cold war in school?

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>>53024078
VIOLENCE.

>>53024090
thats prison you are thinking of.

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>>53032493
Appreciate the rundown, Anon

You know what really grinds my gears?

This idea that canned food is going to somehow last more than a decade. That kind of idiocy is how you get botulism.

>>53057497
Hell, there might even be TRILLIONS of bullets.

>>53055348
Hey, theres an idea...
How about clean water as currency?
Water thats not irradiated, toxic or otherwise undrinkable.

>>53057497
which in an apocaliptic event can be spent, expire due to poor storage conditions, get lost in the rubble etc.

>>53057563
go away, your ignorance offends me.

how come there are no games that are set DURING the apocalypse? That seems way more interesting than what happens after.

something useful as currency has never ever been a good idea

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>>53057537
>he doesn't know about steve

>>53024078
>What's the superior apocalypse currency?
In the long run(+50 years after)
Gold and precious metals. Eventually all survivors will either settle small towns with internal paper currency or they will become moving caravans. In either case trading with other caravans and towns would require common currency and the most universal currency is precious metals.

Immediately after the fall of civilization?
There wouldn't likely be a standard currency. It would be straight trading of goods for services.

After a few hundred years?
There would likely be a few nation states with centralized paper currency backed by gold. However the areas between the nation states would still only respect gold.

>>53057562
>Having a currency which is removed from the economy faster than it can be practically produced and circulated

If you ever traded water as collateral, you'd just have a barter economy.

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Tiberium is the only real currency

>>53024078
Silver. Its value makes it easier to divide into useful amounts than gold, and its purity can easily be confirmed.

>>53032493
The original also has more authentic russian voice acting, despite the VA in the first being american and the VA in the second being an actual russian. Its baffling, but as a pole I can vouch for this weird occurrence. Its very strange. All the VAs in lastlight sound aggressively american.

>>53057651

Steve doesn't eat a lot of canned stuff though for the very reason it's a breeding ground for botulism.

Freeze dried and stuff sealed in those pouche things seem to last forever though and they're definitely the way to go.

Mmm'kay, nice.

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female slaves...?

>>53033234
That seems a trade of equal value.

>>53058442
Nah, they would be goods but not currency.

Hard to carry and to make a price concensus.

>>53024323
>they might be work ten times their weight in gold.
>i'dd like some bullets
that'll be 0.1235 bottle caps please

>>53024439
bullets would make sense in a post apoc setting but i still feel they are kind of out of place in metro with the whole post war/pre war distinction feeling rather abitrary.
the ultimate value of the bullet is that it can be shot and why would you trade 1 high quality for many medium quality bullets ?

>>53027042
that works both ways anon
people where selling edible commodities for gold to, and nothing less. the gold didn't lose it's value , the other materials increased in value

sure gold is a pointless commodity , but it's rare and it looks nice which is what gives it it's value in people's eyes. It also works as a currency because as you say, it doesn't get used up.

>>53058516
Military rounds are used as cash in the game mostly, for balance measures.

In the book all bullets are currency. They are currency because they are technically the most desirable thing, seeing how the humans are in constant war with other factions and you can sleep and a molemonster jump from a hole into your neck.

>>53026689
>One time during a game the GM described payment as coins to fill most of a room and I just felt like it was needless even with bags of holding

Amusingly, a 5e set of full plate carries equal value to 300lbs of silver.

>>53030842
while the idea of it being backed is well worked out , the implementation isn't
as soon as they'dd announce the new currency you'dd have people go out and scavange caps fromm all over instantly devaluating or even bankrupting the currency

>>53024078
>bullets
>>53024090
>Cigarettes
>>53024127
>Toilet paper

Not good - too useful, and can be used up

>>53024104
>Handjobs

Can be neither stockpiled nor verified

>>53024185
>bottlecaps

Good call
>>53024323
>It's not junk. It's just fiat currency that uses caps instead of bills. It's backed by your faith in the water merchants to turn your caps into bottles of water.

THAT'S NOT WHAT FIAT MEANS

US dollars (2017 a.d.) are Fiat currency - a dollar is worth a dollar.

US dollars (pre-1792 a.d.) are commodity money - they are worth the material they are made from

Bottle Caps (2161 a.d.) are representative money - they are worth the amount of money they represent with the Hub water merchants.

>>53024371
>Whatever people want. There's not going to be a currency as we know it without a government to standardize it

Gold and silver managed to be used for commodity money for a looooooong time without any kind of standardization.

>>53024078
Mirrors.
Slightly durable, pretty and you'd need to be a bigshot to be able to properly make them.

>>53057635
Some people still want to use gold standard trough.

>>53024653
That's why the NCR had papaer money that had a value in caps

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>>53024078

Paper and Teeth - paper, especially in book form, for "preserver of civilisation" types who trade in knowledge, and teeth for the bandits and scavs.

>>53032623
>Grain
>Pelts
>Tulip Bulbs
>Livestock
>seashells
>Chocolate

He said "currency," not "trade good."

I will grant you chocolate, seashells and grain.

You will also notice that these are all three things that store exceedingly well.

>>53029224
>Here's an idea: the complete cartridges (technically the bit at the ends the bullet) aren't the currency, the bullet casing that holds all the other components together is.

That... could work.

It would be commodity money, but commodity money has been popular for thousands of years.

>>53058630
>Can be neither stockpiled nor verified

Says you.

Though thinking more about that, could "gains" as a in "mad gains" like /fit/ is always talking about be a currency? They are almost by definition stockpiled in people's muscles, and they're nicely inflationary (i.e. you need to do more exercise to get more gains if you already have a lot of gains).

A lot of the other "post-apocalyptic" currencies are by comparison fairly deflationary - they only become scarcer with time and thus gain relative value.

The Muscles backed "Gain" seems perfect.

>>53058847

OK listen

I'm fine with having fun shooting the shit

But ask yourself: "What is the purpose of currency."

Then run your examples through that filter.

Short answer: No, you could not use gains.

>>53024078
If you have currency, you clearly have a functional and complex economy, thus it's not an apocalypse.
Even a barter system implies life goes on for regular people.

>>53024078

My PA setting uses postcards as currency. Quality really doesn't matter as long as the one time use micro-chip is still there.

Chicken eggs.

>>53058108
The beautiful glow...

>>53058108

Tiberium is a commodity. Your harvesters bringing in Tiberium, raised your $ credit, you didn't buy with the tiberium directly.

>>53058797
Pelts, squirrel pelts especially, were used in northern Europe as currency before metals were widely available. The finnish word for "money" comes directly from "dried pelt".

>>53060428

See I wanted to call you a faggot and quote some wikipedia page that said something like "widely traded before currency was introduced" but strike me down if the page doesn't actually straight up say the words "...pelts were used as currency."

That's fucking wild.

How did that even work? The only citation I find is to a defunct Finnish web site.

>>53060510
One good high quality squirrel pelt equals 500 €. There is a joke that the reason squirrel pelts were replaced was because they got stuck in payazzos (pachinko -like gambling automat).

Would distilled alcohol work as a form of currency?
It can't go bad and has a lot of value in the sense that it isn't THAT easy to make, has actual use, and people like to get drunk

>>53061906
The same way as water-based economy

>>53061976
Really, I mean, water is a necessity to survive in general
Alcohol isn't (unless to treat infections)
Hoarding water would be a lot harder if you need it to survive at all
Alcohol on the other hand can be saved

Would it be possible to use poppies as a currency in some capacity?

>>53062363
>HEROINLAND

>>53062414
I've never tried an opiate but imagine they'd be incredibly useful in a post apocalyptic society.

Bartering for goods it's interesting. It could include various types of currency from different regions, like water, fertile females, cattle, gold or prewar coins.

>>53062589
Are there RPG's that have vayrying goods prices and availability depending on location

>>53062780
Not that I know of, but it's my favourite for settings.

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>>53062780
>>53063133
I think Neuroshima had that.
Dunno about anything else about it aside from the fact it uses 3d20

I vote magazines (LISA)

I was kinda confused as to why old nudie mags were used as currency, until it occurred to me that they were the only way anyone had to see women any more.
I really like that.

>>53063448
Oh you dandy fuck, I forgot about those!

>>53038103
Rule of thumb, if you can grow tomatoes you can grow hennep.

>>53052819
You have no clue why gold was picked to back currency in the first place do you?
It has a pretty high chance to survive,for what are you gonne trade your tp to buy food from another? Most likely a stable semi-rare metal most likely gold and silver.

>>53062051
In europe they used to mostly drink beer cause it was safer then most water sources, most of the time they even boiled the beer first for an extra clean drinking source and to evaporate the alcohol.

>>53024078
My apocalypse has no currency
It's a barter system, if anything is used as cost-measuring standard, it'd be either bullets, water, or food

I read an article written by a guy who was in a shithitthefan scenario in Bosnia. He said that a can of food would buy a woman for a night, and that he used shotgun shells to barter most of the time.
He also got a killer deal, trading a car part for two shotguns

>>53064779
>a can of food would buy a woman for a night
Gross.
I'd want a woman worth at least three cans.

>>53033842
>implying the US dollar is backed in modern times

>>53028978
how can you mass manufacture something post-society?

>>53026607
as an archeologist, I disagree

>>53065216

It is backed by the US's ability to tax you in USD.

>>53065104

What about a girl worth only two cans, but her cans are really good?

Vodka and tinned meat.

>>53024078
just plain old cash or coins more importantly, useless though if not back by a standard thats mutually agreed upon.

but preferred optional currency would be bullet casings, amount of water the casing can hold is the standard to converting into other calibers. so 3 .22 would equal 1 .32 in a rough example.

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>>53065253

In the Khyber Pass, between Pakistan and afghanistan, the warlords there operate miniature production lines - basically about 8 or so weaponsmiths work each on one part of the AKs and shotguns they produce.

Main technological limits for this style of production is the tools used, the hand clamps, drills and small anvils for hammering the construction grade materials they make the guns out of.

Everyone is ultimately paid for using opium as a medium of exchange, which in turn has helped fuel a major heroin outbreak in the afghan side of pakistan.

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>>53024104

That's not a currency, that's a service. Homework has been done on this.

>>53057651
to be fair, he did get botulism from a Ukrainian (Russian maybe?) retort pouch ration.

granted it was only from the 90s, and he has eaten stuff way older and been fine.

>>53024416
actually its mentioned at one point in NV that their scarcity is part of why caps are used. Most bottle cap presses were destroyed in the great war or have since fallen into irreparable disrepair, making the supply of caps easy to control. You can find a shack being used for a cap counterfeiting operation where you see that the counterfeiters have to form and paint their fake caps by hand

>>53024640
Not great in a real world sense, but has a lot of potential for a game, both in terms of mechanics and story

>>53024078

That's not a fully valid currency system, that's an barter system with an intermediate item.

May appear like a currency but isn't for a couple of reasons.

It's a consumption item. If it's impossible/very hard to reproduce in the (post-)apocalypse, nobody will have any "money" anymore soon.
If it's still easy to to reproduce, it has no value.

Paying for anything would lower your oods for survival, so nobody would want to spend it. Only whatever amount of ammo you have in exess - which would bog you down as long as you havn't spend it (again, lowering odds) or actually isn't exess (because you want to have as much as possible for emergency).

Different weapons use different ammo. So the same ammo could have vastly different value to different people. What is THE biggest problem of barter systems.

While properly stored has a huge shelf life, it can go bad quite quickly in unfavourable environment conditions, which are likely to be common in this scenario.

There are more, but those are more specific to the (post) apocalyptic scenario.

Might be possible to make ammo working as currency for a while, if there is som kind of organization which guarantees the value of the ammo-currency. But only for a limited timeframe.

>>53071618
>In the Khyber Pass, between Pakistan and afghanistan, the warlords there operate miniature production lines - basically about 8 or so weaponsmiths work each on one part of the AKs and shotguns they produce.

Rolling this back a few posts, the line of argument was:

>OP: What's the superior apocalypse currency?
>1: There wouldn't be currency. There would be trade of materials based on their perceived value against each other.
>1: This. There is no currency without agreed societal norms, which don't exist.
>1: Anything mass manufactured post-society either stops existing or becomes insanely expensive
>2: why?
>1: how can you mass manufacture something post-society?

(Sides 1 and 2 obviously don't have to be only two people)

Regarding Khyber Pass manufacturing: There's a society. There's somebody, somewhere, digging metal ores and others digging coal, both expecting to be paid. There are smelters combining the two into steel billets expecting somebody to buy it. There are people transporting the billets into Khyber Pass for the production lines - again, expecting to be paid.

It is a mistake to say that post-apocalypse is the same as post-society but once you *have* said that, all of the Khyber Pass manufacturing ceases to exist - it is intrinsically dependent on there being a society. A post-apocalypse post-society can be found somewhere like in the nomadic plains indians of America ca. year 1550 after the diseases have schrecked their population down by 90% but before they have met any Europeans. They had only the production you could have while travelling, and (probably) no currency, because they'd have no use for currency.

>>53072863
>If it's still easy to to reproduce, it has no value.

Interestingly, that's not true!

The value of the Zimbabwe dollar has finally ~*approximately*~ stabilized

They're worth as much as it costs to forge a similar amount of fake Zimbabwe dollars

Now this is a very LOW value, sure, but it's an actual value.

Bullets are a terrible idea, as is any other resource that is both limited in supply and desperately needed for some other use than as currency.

Eventually people are gonna shoot all the available bullets and then there'll be no more currency.

A fucking barter economy makes more sense.

>>53074848
>Eventually people are gonna shoot all the available bullets and then there'll be no more currency.
We actually have a lot of bullets. We produce like 14 billion per year.

>>53075862
>We actually have a lot of bullets. We produce like 14 billion per year.

How many would be used during apocalypse conditions and in the following years though?

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>>53065673
>What about a girl worth only two cans...

That woman is for the birds.

>>53076483
>>We actually have a lot of bullets. We produce like 14 billion per year.
>How many would be used during apocalypse conditions and in the following years though?

How many a year get used 'Pre-Apocalypse'? It isn't exactly like they're just produced now and never fired. There is a lot of hunting, sport shooting, target practice, and then the various 'Wars' and low grade conflicts world wide.

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>>53073724
>Regarding Khyber Pass manufacturing: There's a society. There's somebody, somewhere, digging metal ores and others digging coal

Nope, the khyber pass manufacturing process involves stealing construction materials to repurpose to make copper shotguns and low grade steel AKs.

If there are buildings still standing, there are likely building sites with construction to be looted.

Eventually supplies will run out, and the guns wear down.

Eventually.

But in the meantime, there's things to trade blowjobs for.

>>53080081
>14 billion per year.
yearly 2 bullets per human.
huh.

>>53080712
>to make copper shotguns and low grade steel AKs.


Yikes! I never want to stand anywhere near someone firing any of those. One good hang fire and a 2nd shot and it becomes a 'hand-held IED'. Ouch.
>>53081017
Hey, some of us are more resistant than others. I've been taking 'lead allergy' shots for years.

>>53024078
waifus and slaves