/exg/ - Exalted General

>>52963220
So, let's say there's an island with a volcano in the middle. The volcano erupts, people die, a shadoeland is born. How do you guys figure this would affect the god of the volcano? Would the Underworld taint affect his nature, or would it just be a plain old god in a creepy environment? Would his ability to affect his volcano be compromised? Are there canon answers to these questions, or is this more of a "whatever works best for your game" kind of thing?

>>52963248
> Are there canon answers to these questions, or is this more of a "whatever works best for your game" kind of thing?

Whatever work best.

Most spirits find the Underworld and the Shadowland deeply antithetical to their own essence. In 2e it affects their mote regeneration, and very few gods can live in Shadowlands.

In the other hand, there is a scarce example of death tainted elementals and gods.

If you want that god to become all creepy and shit, it works well within the framework of the game. If you want that god to be the last untainted spirit of the land, it works too.

>Would his ability to affect his volcano be compromised?

Almost certainly. Most untainted gods will find a shadowland very unsettling, and with strange death essence. Its ability to manipulate its environment will be most certainly changed.

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>>52963220
I find the lack of titan like proportion humanoid deeply unsettling in Exalted. It has absolutely every trope in existence - except giants, titans, and other oversized human.

There is nothing that say epic more than fighting against a 20 meter tall bronze behemoth.

>>52963373
>There is nothing that say epic more than fighting against a 20 meter tall bronze behemoth.

They exist, not coincidentally named "behemoths". There's no race of them or anything, but it's a perfectly fine concept for a behemoth.

>>52963359
Alright. How much do you figure shadowlands can deviate from normal natural laws of Creation? I'm thinking os something like a shadowlann isle where the volcano is perpetually erupting, because the whole place is sort of stuck on the final terrible moments of its dead inhabitants. Some of the inhabitants who still linger on as ghosts would try to sacrifice anyone unfortunate enough to end up on the island to their god in an attempt to calm down his apparent wrath. Others would have turned against their god, blaming their own deaths and those of their loved ones on him. The god himself would be unable to actually do shit about the ungoing half-remebered, laf-real eruption, but would pretend otherwise and play the part of an angry god to the folks still trying to appease him, because that's the only way to hold on to any shred of power and dignity. Secretly he'd be kind of desperate, because the whole situation suck even more for him than for the ghosts who at least have the option of moving on. Does this sound reasonable and/or interesting? It's not supposed to be the setting for a whole campaign, but something of a side adventure for a few sessions.

>>52963391
Gods and demons can also be like that. IIRC the Pale Mistress is describes as a fuckhuge woman-like creature, for instance.

>>52949052

thanks

>>52963373

I want to climb her peaks and enter her valley!

>>52964824
...like a cootie? http://public.media.smithsonianmag.com/legacy_blog/louse.jpg

For a "reflexes" roll, the attribute is obviously dexterity or wits, but what would you use for the ability? I'm leaning towards dodge with the option of substituting martial arts if higher, rather than athletics which is the only other thing I can think of.

or would you fudge and roll dex+wits instead of attribute+ability on something like that?

>>52965226

What exactly do you mean by "reflexes?" What's the outcome supposed to be?

>>52965244
stuff like catching a dropped or thrown item, grabbing a fly with chopsticks, just general fast-twitch muscle stuff that doesn't fit cleanly into something else already but I'm actually having hard time thinking of examples that aren't already dodge so I'd guess that answers my question

>>52963373
Doesn't one of the comics in the 2e infernal book have the Malefasian infernal fighting one? I figure they must exist in that case.

On the subject of Infernals, would a Brawl-specialized Solar's right arm be enough of an offering to convince Ligier to make me something cool, essentially on the level of a 3 dot artifact or so?
Would the arm being freely given make him more or less interested in it?
How do you pronounce Ligier?

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>>52965780
Fuck, wrong image. I should start naming them better.

>>52964903

Yes, like a warm lil bug snugging up against her!

>>52965427
It depends on what you're trying to do, pretty much entirely.

>>52963220

Good news, everybody. One of the antagonist mini splats has dropped! Which one of you has enough points in Resources to buy it?

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/210741/Adversaries-of-the-Righteous-Harrowing-Silence?cPath=8329_24225

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>>52965427

You're pretty much describing Athletics checks, with "catch fly with chopstick" style things. Basically, anything that isn't outright trying to murder shit (combat skills), be a ninja (stealth skills), etc, would fall under that, as far as physical shit goes.

>>52966166
It's a night caste northerner with nothing interesting. Was not worth the dollar

>>52966166
I can never tell. it's so damned abstracted I can either afford a pizza or a new car before I run out :/

>>52966436
Mind uploading anyway? I at least want to see what they got cooking, anyway.

>>52966432
with that much snow you'd think she'd be wearing more than 6 mospid feathers and a thong

>>52966517
>lunars

>>52966484
Think he means he didn't bother buying it

>>52966530
That would imply that people on /tg/ talk about things they don't really know anything about! That's absolute madness!

In all seriousness, the "was not" implies he did purchase it

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>>52966517
>Exalted
>making sense

Hoo boy. Someone has a lot to learn.

>>52966166
> a small mistake was made:
The charm description for Hardship-Surviving Mendicant Spirit lists the effects of Flashing Nocturne Prana instead.

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What's a good sacrifice for Necromantic initiation?

>>52966557
https://pastebin.com/nWSGkM8D

>>52966745

Can you post the pdf anyway?

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>>52966756

Your lover.
Parent.
That little shit you hate that got into a good sorcery college.
Your necromancy teacher.

>>52966773
i was just copypasting from a review someone put on drivethrough

>>52966780
>Your lover.
>Parent.
Those are, uh, pretty dramatic. More like an Obsidian initiation than an Iron initiation.

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>>52966848

I guess it depends how crazy you want to start then.

>>52966780
>Your necromancy teacher.
yes

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>>52967070

They never see it coming, do they?

>>52966762
Thanks senpai

>>52967136

Never.

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0vOOVTQLhQ

Yo the first adversaries thing is up

>>52966762

Can you post the full pdf? I don't that there'll be any water marks due to the fact that you purchased it legitimately.

>>52967596
The download link literally had water mark in the address. The only picture is the one that's in the preview.

>>52968009

My mistake, thanks for the pastebin.

>>52966578
I dunno, man. Last thread, there were a lot of people on the side of "Exalted is gritty realism", as impossible as that may sound to reasonable people.

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>>52968452

Sounds like they missed the point of the game entirely.

>>52967012
Very low crazy, if at all possible. Could I just, say, let my sword rust away to nothing and get a new one?

>>52968452
I don't think that's exactly what people claimed. It was more about the Creation not working on cartoon physics or whatever by default.

>>52968452
That wasn't really the argument? The argument was that most of creation ran on normal physics, but then Exalts, specifically, got to run on I'M AWESOME physics, because they're Exalts, and above petty things like leg cycling speed not being enough to let them outrun the wind or whatever. On the other hand, their I'M AWESOME physics field shouldn't extend to the house they're trying to pick up, so the house should break, since it doesn't have the structural integrity to handle being picked up.

>>52969014
Yes, I believe the argument was that Charms allow you to do the unrealistic and impossible in a realistic world.

Which is why using 6 charms does not allow you to pick up a house. Because muh realism.

But 6 charms will let you stick your hands in the ground and pull an enormous fissure into the earth.

Because your logic has consistency, right?

>>52963248
A volcano is a very poor example of this because volcano soil is very fertile and the flora in volcanic regions is well adapted to bouncing back after an eruption.

Very quickly, the land would be bouncing back up with lots of jungle plants.

>>52969127
Well, no. You can totally pick up a house. The house just won't survive it, because it's not awesome enough to do so.

The logic's basically that just because an Exalt is awesome enough to smack a behemoth with a tree, that doesn't mean that the tree is awesome to survive being smashed into the behemoth. Similarly, just because an Exalt is awesome enough to pick up a house, that doesn't mean that the house is awesome enough to survive having an exalt pick it up.

Not that I really agree with that, but I just wanted to point out that the argument wasn't, "Exalted is a gritty game", it was that "Most of the world isn't as awesome as an Exalt is."

>>52969014
>The argument was that most of creation ran on normal physics

Which it explicitly doesn't, because everything in Creation is made up of essence, and watched over by local spirits/gods/etc to make sure it functions properly. Not to mention the whole place is fucking flat, and is also technically a rug being worked on by technomagical spiders that may or may not get pissed off or not function right.

It's not quite Bugs Bunny tier, but it's at the very least firmly within the comic book realm of "Shit just isn't normal".

>>52969198
I don't really see how that matters. Death on a large scale is enough to create a shadowland, and after the shadowland is there, normal plants won't do all that well, no matter how fertile the soil.

>>52969354
Most of the things in Creation work the same as real world, though. Gravity in Creation is based on different principles than real world gravity, but as far as phemonena perceptible and relevant to humans are cocnerend, it works the same.

>>52968452

Huh, stupid faggot misrepresenting people's arguments? Shocker.

>>52969354
"Normal" physics, then. The core of idea's more that the house just isn't awesome enough to survive being manhandled by the Exalt. You could make it sufficiently awesome, probably through a charm or by just building it that way, but the average peasant isn't going to have a house that's normally that good.

Basically, the group arguing that the house should be liftable is approaching it from the angle of "I'm awesome enough to lift a house." The group that's arguing that it should break is arguing from the angle of, "The house isn't awesome enough to survive being lifted by me, because its god is some stupid house god of a single house, and he's not going to be able to stand up to an Exalt shoving on its bottom super-hard."... or something, I'm not actually on that side, so I'm not really sure what the logic is there.

Either way, no one's arguing that Exalted as a game is gritty. They just have different ideas of what it means to be that awesome, and whom the awesome applies to.

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>>52969431

Shadowlands don't form overnight. Atop that, it takes a LOT of death in an area to create one, or a lot of death over a long time. A volcano exploding probably wouldn't do it unless it was some extinction-tier Pompeii thing AND new life was prevented from happening thereafter, which, given volcano's are actually pretty good at making new life what with all the fertile stuff they can spread, is probably not happening.

>>52963428
Sounds good so far. What would be some ways to resolve the situation?

>>52965780
>How do you pronounce Ligier?
Lee-Hee-ERR.

>>52969655
Fuck that man. I'll keep saying lig-ee-er.

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>>52969548

I would base on the intent behind the action. If you're trying to lift a house up and hold it over your head and toss it at some schmuck, it'll survive until you bring it crashing on someones head. If you're trying to literally rip a house from it's foundation to bring it crashing down on everyone inside, that would work, too. If you're trying to just support a house that is in danger of collapse (say, because of an earthquake) while others quickly add on some supports and shit so it won't fall apart, you can do that too.

>>52969354

You don't understand, the in game explanations for how the world of Creation works are irrelevant, because it is an explicit design goal that the rules of Creation largely follow the rules of the real world even if the explanations for why that is so are wildly different.

The purpose is to create a 'realistic' base so that when you exalt jumps 30 feet into the air, everyone around him can point and say Holy shit! That guy is some kind of God or something. What a badass. The devs have said as much.

>>52969625
>Shadowlands don't form overnight.
I think they did in 2e at least. The Mask of Winters won his war for Thorns because he made separate shadowlands and combined them all together.

>>52969779

MoW also is a retardedly powerful ghost thing with access to necromancy and sorcery. You can greatly expedite matters like that.

>>52969734

You can explicitly do anything that you can do without magic as anyone who isn't magical. That includes anything under the "legendary success" line, as long as you can pull it off, because thats done just by sheer dice rolling.

Of course, pulling it off is another matter entirely. An extra probably is never going to hit that level of success. A heroic mortal might. An Exalt is going to do it easily.

>>52969702
I don't exactly disagree with you, but I do see their point. It's like, IRL, if you try to move a boulder with a twig, you're not going to get much done, because it's a fucking twig. It doesn't matter what you do with it or how strong you are (well, unless you just toss it to the side and shove the boulder yourself, I guess, but that's kinda the point), it's going to break before the boulder moves.

Similarly, it doesn't matter how strong you are, if you're trying to pick up some ramshackle peasant dwelling with brute strength, the place is going to fall apart before you manage to do so, because, simply put, it's a piece of crap.

On the other hand, you're a fucking Exalt. Lifting a house and throwing it at some is way too cool of an action for me to start quibbling about the architectural skills of the local peasants and the effectiveness of the house god in holding the stupid thing together.

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This is what Exalted gets for trying this weird mix of "realistic" simulation combined with over the top fantasy powers.
>I want to pick up the house and throw it at the archer
>You can't do that, it's too big
>But I'm a fantasy super hero with crazy magical powers that let me lift huge things
>Yes but it's just a house, it'll fall apart if you pick it up, it's not magical like you
This shouldn't be a problem in this game. It should clearly be one way or the other.

>>52965780
I'm an idiot and always pronounced it like the animal thats a mix between a lion and tiger.

>>52969625
I'm about 99% sure that shadowlands can form pretty quickly and that mass deaths on short term can be enough to cause them. I mean, they can also form over longer periods of time, obviously, but the site of a particularly bloody battle absolutely is valid shadowland material.

>>52970170
So much so that intelligently-run armies in Creation have dedicated corps of funerists to take care of burial rites for the slain, so that the army isn't stalked and devoured by their hungry ghosts the next time they pitch camp.

>>52970103

This is a false dichotomy, you can pick up a Yeddim or giant boulder and hurl them just fine.

The fact that you can lift and hurl these other giant things but the house collapses around you isn't meant to punish your concept, but illustrate the difference between them as choices - choosing what to lift and throw can make a meaningful difference - and to show that yeah that peasant house reacts to you attempting to lift it by the side exactly as you'd expect - that wall collapses. Maybe you'd have more success if you stunted lifting it by its stone foundation?

>>52970507
>The fact that you can lift and hurl these other giant things but the house collapses around you isn't meant to punish your concept, but illustrate the difference between them as choices - choosing what to lift and throw can make a meaningful difference
...What? M8 that's just stupid.

>>52970103
>This shouldn't be a problem in this game. It should clearly be one way or the other.

I don't think it is a problem, this is the first time in all of my years playing Exalted I've heard anyone, near autistically, demand that Exalted follow some sort of fucked up "but realism" paradigm when it's very clearly meant to model a mythological setting in every fashion.

>>52970535

What, do you think a 3-ton Yeddim and some shitty peasant house should feel the same when you try to lift them?

>>52970734
It all started because of a developer statement.

>>52970778

So was it Morke or Holden? They seem to have a track record for this shit.

>>52970778

Great, but they can state whatever the fuck they want on some shitty message board. If it isn't in the books or the eratta it might as well not exist. Trying to cite "buh buh muh message boards" will probably get you laughed out of most discussions.

>>52970734

No, the argument is over what 'Mythological setting' means. I'm arguing that a mundane house in exalted functions the same way as it does irl, and the whole argument spun from a dev comment saying that if you tried to lift and throw a house it would break apart.

>>52970762
You think it's some kind of "meaningful choice" being enforced by how you can pick up and throw some big things but not others because "realistically" they'd collapse? That makes so little sense that you must be baiting.

>>52970862

I'd argue in mythology if anyone tried to lift a house it'd probably get lifted without breaking. Same as why "and then Zeus fucked people as a raincloud" worked. Because it's not meant to be realistic.

>>52970820

There is also nothing in the books saying Creation runs on funny looney tunes physics. In fact, it doesn't mention the rules of the world at all. That is why we're having an argument in the first place, but the devs agree with me that the default assumption should be everything is more or less the same as irl except when its not.

>>52970813
No, it was Eric Minton.

>>52970820
The ask the dev thread IS the errata, since they refuse to write official errata for 3e.

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>>52970940
>they refuse to write official errata for 3e

So when are these chucklefucks getting fired too then?

>>52970920
The mythological aspects of Exalted are modeled off of the supernatural exception based powers of the setting's Gods and Myth heroes. Yeah, a given being probably could lift a house by a single ceiling tile, because he has a power that lets him do so, but its not an ingrained fact of the universe.

>>52970940
>since they refuse to write official errata for 3e.

I don't think they outright REFUSE to write it so much as don't expect it for a good while.

>>52970813
It was Minton, who shortly thereafter said that you could also not use the things you pick up with a Feat of Strength to hit people. No picking up a horse or a cart or something and attacking with it.

>>52970978
>>52971005

At the very least, there's a Google Doc compiling a list of errata from the Ask the Devs thread. Unfortunately, it was recently locked.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n3ooTmopm3CBxW5jwPp1761xsaIccea-5XIhVM_PQEc/edit

>>52971036

I can accept that, if only because it'd be rather difficult to handle as an attack. Do you remember the screen shot from 2e detailing all of the charms that you need to throw a Yeddim at people? How the fuck do you even stat a Yeddim as a thrown weapon? It was funny the first time, after a while it just becomes trite.

>>52971036
Specifically with *just* a Feat of Strength, IIRC.

>first NPC antagonist comes up for that collection that'll eventually become a full book
>it's a Solar
>forums bitch like there's no tomorrow

Amazing.

>>52971157
No, at all. He said once you're holding something heavy, you cannot attack with it because this would create an expectation in players that someone strong enough to lift and throw a yeddim would be able to do more damage than a waif with a sword, which he didnt want. Swords should be the strongest thing you can attack with.

>>52971213
>Swords should be the strongest thing you can attack with.

That's not quite what he meant (and again, keep in mind that things like Shockwave Technique exist). It's less about making swords the strongest thing you can attack with and more about not making a mechanics meta where *every* combat character fights by grabbing the largest object nearby, living or not, and swinging it at enemies.

>>52968894
>Could I just, say, let my sword rust away to nothing and get a new one?
That doesn't sound like much of a sacrifice.

Not that I really like the whole sacrifice system. I think it drives a wedge between the player who wants cool powers and might roleplay some angst to justify them and the character for whom the sacrifice is actually a difficult choice.

>>52969127

No, the argument was that Charms are required to do impossible and unrealistic things in a realistic world.

If you have House-Picking-Up Prana, you can totally pick up a house without it collapsing due to physics. But if all you have is STRONK charms, while you might have the capacity to bear the weight of the house, you don't have anything that holds it together while you do.

>>52971545

Object Strengthening Touch

WOOHOO

>>52971565

I'd allow that at my table.

>>52970103
I had a player pick up a house full of orphans back in 2nd edition. They just stunted, spend Essence to make their Strength + Athletics pool high enough, and I told them they picked it up and moved it out of the way of an incoming boulder hurled by a catapult.

My player would have been rightfully angry if I had told them, "You try to move the house, but it collapses in on itself and all of the orphans die. That wouldn't have happened if you had House Lifting Prana, but since you don't, you can't move buildings."

>>52971375

Yeah. The idea of sacrifice when initiating into Sorcery/Necromancy isn't that you're paying a toll for power and knowledge to some kind of gatekeeper. It's that you're leaving behind a part of your old way of looking at the world or giving up something precious that's holding you back from enlightenment.

In the context of Necromancy, a proper way of framing 'losing my sword' as part of the trial of decay might be giving up the blade which is the last heirloom of your bloodline or which represents a promise made to a fallen companion, leaving it exposed to harsh elements on a mountaintop and making frequent pilgrimages to witness it becoming rusted and brittle, and eventually, diminished beyond repair, all while meditating on the inevitability of loss and oblivion.

>>52963373

Behemoths, some weird Fae thing, or a God.

>>52971796
Sure, but you the player aren't leaving behind anything. Your character is going through the life-changing transformation of the Sacrifice, you the player are adding a bit of Sad to your backstory then adding some cool powers to your character sheet.

There's a clash there, and as a result of that clash I've never seen anyone in actual play do anything other than minimize the impact of the Sacrifice. It's always something tidy, convenient, and very often only referred to in backstory. Such as the example in this very thread that I was responding to.

>>52968894
>Could I just, say, let my sword rust away to nothing and get a new one?

Sure, you could make the Sacrifice into something that your character might feel something about occasionally but that will never come up in play, never provide any mechanical penalties, and never inconvenience you on any level within the game. You could do that. You'd be doing the same thing everyone does when they pick a Sacrifice for their sorcerer/necromancer character.

>>52968452
>>52968638
Exalted is gritty. Ever played a mortals game? No? Thought so.

>>52972044
>It's always something tidy, convenient, and very often only referred to in backstory.
>mfw my only sorcerer character sacrificed his personal ambitions to become Mnemon's personal pawn.

>>52971712

They would have been rightfully angry if you didn't let them use their strength in some way to solve the problem. Like throwing your own boulder at the incoming one, or catching it with your bare hands and tossing it back at the catapult, things like that.

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>>52972270

>Mnemon's personal "pawn."

>>52969655
>>52969690
lion+tiger is the superior pronunciation

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>>52972117
>Exalted
>playing mortals

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>>52969690
>>52972474

I pronounce it Lie-gear. I also pronounce Sidereal as Sid-uh-real. If they want it pronounced differently they should include proper pronunciations, because I have never heard people pronounce either of these the same way.

>>52972436
It wasn't like that. He wished it was. Also he's terrified at the thought.

He slept with those she ordered him to sleep with though, so there's that.

Damn I miss my White Veil Sorcerer-Assassin Earth Aspect. I hope we get White Veil Style in the DB book.

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>>52972644

>He slept with those she ordered him to sleep with

Tell me that she watched, like some sort of self NTRing super domme.

>>52972579

>If they want it pronounced differently they should include proper pronunciations

Lexicon starts from page 24, and says that it's pronounced "sy-DEER-ee-ul"

>>52972579
I get Ligier, but Sidereal is a real word, and people really should know how to pronounce it.

>>52973003

Autochthon is also a real word, but is apparently pronounced "auto-thon" instead of "aw-THOCK-thon"

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>>52972644
>becoming the bitch boy for a literal "baka I'm really 1000 years old I just look 16" girl with temper tantrums and mommy issues who somehow is in control of a major House despite blowing up the entire fucking sorcery college and openly flaunting the rules of their own society

Your character sounds like the alpha of beta's everywhere.

>>52973003
liger is a real word too.

>>52972755
She's Mnemon. I don't think there's a chance she's not watching all of her pawns through some sorcerous means or others.

>>52971712
I've had similar things happen in my games.

I'm glad there're at least a few people in this thread who've actually played the game and understand that if you get someone to sit down and play a game of kungfu godkings, and they build their whole character around doing supernatural strength shit, and the game culminates in a moment where they can save the day with their strength, it is unreasonable to tell them "nah, realism makes you fail" while their nearby allies jump so good they fly and throw hadokens.

I guess they only view the setting in their personal headspace, so the idea of managing the experience and expectations of friends at a table is alien to them.

>>52973119
Basically, that. I wanted to start with a White Veil sorcerer bitch to Mnemon, and evolve towards Black Claw, becoming a demon-bitch in the process. Perhaps the character could have ended up becoming an Akuma of some Yozi or other.

>>52971005
>I don't think they outright REFUSE to write it so much as don't expect it for a good while.
3e needed errata before it was even published.

How long will you pretend it's fine before 4e?

>>52971712
>>52973498

I come back to the issue that it is an Air Breathing Mermaid problem. Everyone generally seems to accept the game is not realistic and you can do unrealistic things, until someone with either no imagination or little brain power asks "Do I need X to do Y?", wherein people think that BECAUSE Charms exist, you need a fucking Charm for everything. Which you most definitely do not.

>>52973829
Air breathing mermaid?

>>52973914

If you've never heard of it before, it's this:

"It’s an example someone has made up, in which your Mermaid RPG Second Edition introduces the new special ability “air breathing”, which allows your mermaid character to breath air. The first edition never said anything about this and it was simply asumed that mermaids could stay above water without suffocating, but it never really mattered anyway. The designers might think they now gave the players new options, but in fact they did the opposite. They took away options for all the players whose characters do not have this specific special ability. It doesn’t actually have to be new rules introduced in a new edition of an old game, but the problem is one that affects game design in general: If there is a special ability that enables players to do something, you make this special ability mandatory to do that thing. And is it really necessary to limit that thing to just only the characters with the special ability? Would it hurt the game if everyone could do it?"

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>>52973818
>pretend

>>52973980

And fuck, I hit post too soon.

Basically, by going "shit will fall apart without X Charm" you make "X Charm" now required for anyone who attempts said action that "X Charm" is required for, whereas BEFORE someone went "Do you need a Charm to do this?", it was generally never really mentioned, and more wisely, left to discretion.

It also opens the door for even more "X Charm is required to do (insert thing here)" which only adds even more problems down the line in a never ending spiral of retardation.

What uh

What is this and why haven't I heard of it before?

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/210741
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/1085483-adversaries-of-the-righteous-harrowing-silence

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>>52971083
>Do you remember the screen shot from 2e detailing all of the charms that you need to throw a Yeddim at people?

>>52973498
Yeah, that would be retarded if people were saying 'nah, realism makes you fail' - good thing no one is saying you can't save the day with your strength, just the manner in which you do it. But of course you had to make up a false argument or your point wouldn't make any sense.

And nice job snidely implying the people you're arguing with don't actually play the game, fuckwit.

>>52974019

Only dropped today. Post it if you got it.

>>52974082
>Yeah, that would be retarded if people were saying 'nah, realism makes you fail'
Like Exalted developer Eric Minton

>>52973829

>Everyone generally seems to accept the game is not realistic and you can do unrealistic things, until someone with either no imagination or little brain power asks "Do I need X to do Y?", wherein people think that BECAUSE Charms exist, you need a fucking Charm for everything. Which you most definitely do not.

How sneaky of you to conflate needing charms to do everything and needing charms to do unrealistic things. You keep making up arguments that don't exist because you're unable to argue in good faith.

Where do you draw a line? Where do you say 'this feat needs a charm?' This is the problem with your logic, if you accept that anyone can do 'unrealistic things' why do you even need charms? Hell, I should be able to Wyld Shape with just a high enough lore roll, or launch a cutting wind attack with my sword with a melee roll. But, I bet you don't actually believe that and you accept you need charms to do "unrealistic" things like Sorcery.

Also your mermaid analogy fucking sucks because someone with a mostly human body being able to breathe is not at all comparable to a house that - until your exalt touched it - obeyed the laws of physics.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/1085191-ammunition-check-survey

Should ammo just be unlimited? Does running out of ammo ever improve the story at the table?

>>52974082
>>52974336
t. Minton

>>52974132
He didn't say that either. You can't stop yourself. Realism may prevent you from lifting that ramshackle house without it collapsing, but you can still save those orphan children trapped in X house without having to lift it, and do it in a way using your heroic strength. Its the difference between failure at a task and failure at achieving a goal.

>>52974363
I accept this as proof that you concede the argument in my favor, ty.

>>52974342

Never in over 20 years of gaming have I ever bothered to check ammunition for anything. I just buy 100-1000 of whatever at char-gen (depending on player budget) and then everyone forgets about that shit.

While running out of ammunition is a very real issue in real life engagements, in everything else it's literally relegated to "plot".

>>52974336

Because the line is pretty clearly drawn and influenced by popular media in many cases. Can Superman/Hercules/insert popular strong character here lift a house? Yes? Does it shatter? No? Then it's probably acceptable, for your game about demi-gods prancing around in magic land, where suspension of disbelief is generally required, to lift a house without it shattering under it's own weight. Because lifting things is something anyone can relate to, and falls under the header of "stuff people can actually do". Heroes and Exalt's just do it better/bigger because they're heroes.

Can your Exalt fire lasers from his eyes? No, he can't, because laser eyes is not an explicitly human thing. People don't fire lasers from their eyes. Can they get a Charm to fire laser eyes? Sure, whatever, shoot fucking sun rays from your eyes, that'll be fine, because it's magic. Exalt's have been shooting sun rays from shit for 2 editions now at least, and more.

Can lifting shit still be magic? Yeah, sure, if you augment your strength with magic. Which you probably need to do to lift the house in the first place. And will it be enough to keep the house intact? Yes, yes it will, because once again, we're in magic made up fucking fairy land, where suspension of disbelief to an extent is expected, and lifting a house without it breaking under it's own weight is hardly the most disbelief stretching thing. It also shouldn't require another Charm to do, because if you want to raise THAT issue, how about the one where having this sudden increased strength from the Charm allowing you to lift this shit in the first place doesn't increase your body mass and basically warp your character (to account for needing musculature and skeletal enhancements to survive lifting this shit), or how you could accidentally snap someone in half, or...Etc.

>>52974342

Ammo ought to be important for reloading and dramatic tension. Cross bows being balanced by the fact that they need to be reloaded after every shot is important, and having only one shot to kill an opponent in a life or death situation is appropriate.

>>52974746

>Because the line is pretty clearly drawn and influenced by popular media in many cases.

Exalted has so many sources of often contradictory influences that you can't really apply a general rule from X media or piece of fiction to Exalted. Superman can lift a house without it shattering, but Saitama from One Punch Man cannot.

Trying to derive in-setting facts from other popular media that is similar in some ways to Exalted is just going to result in an incoherent setting, and Exalted needs its own baseline. So no, the line is not clearly drawn at all by other popular media.

>>52974746

>And will it be enough to keep the house intact? Yes, yes it will, because once again, we're in magic made up fucking fairy land, where suspension of disbelief to an extent is expected, and lifting a house without it breaking under it's own weight is hardly the most disbelief stretching thing. It also shouldn't require another Charm to do, because if you want to raise THAT issue, how about the one where having this sudden increased strength from the Charm allowing you to lift this shit in the first place doesn't increase your body mass and basically warp your character (to account for needing musculature and skeletal enhancements to survive lifting this shit), or how you could accidentally snap someone in half, or...Etc.

Yeah, I agree that you need to suspend disbelief somewhere. What I have been arguing is that that ends at the supernatual entity in question and the direct feats he is doing with his insane strength diepool. Lifting a giant boulder? Sure, fine. Collapsing a castle wall? Go for it. You don't need to answer questions like body mass or skeletal enhancements - they're not important. But the house doesn't have the same awesome field around it.

I mean, instinctively, you can feel 'yeah it shouldn't break up if I lift it' and just willfully ignore which part of the building you're holding that is supporting all that weight. But that is purely subjective rather than a correct suspension of disbelief. I bet you wouldn't extend that to lifting the US Capitol building by a random pillar. That wouldn't make any sense, the pillar would just snap off.

>>52975274

This entire debate is on par with "should Fighters be stronger?" in 3.PFe discussions.

>>52975345
They should be.

>>52966756

A pretty appropriate one would be your fertility.

Same for the other things that connect you to the living world - your appearance, your ability to stand the sun, the enjoyment of food and drink, emotional intimacy, etc.

I'm curious what the house-denier stance is on other mundane equipment. Do they make their Supernal Archers destroy any non-artifact bow that they pluck with speed and force enough to fling a thousand arrows into the horizon in the span of seconds? Do their Solar runners need to use Awareness Charms to be able to see while running super fast? Do they make their PCs take special Resistance Charms to negate the wear and tear on the Solars' joints from performing superhuman feats?

I mean, if they invent things to impose Charm taxes on strongmen, why not everyone? Why let anyone do cool things without paying their autism toll?

>>52975274
>Lifting a giant boulder? Sure, fine. Collapsing a castle wall? Go for it. You don't need to answer questions like body mass or skeletal enhancements - they're not important. But the house doesn't have the same awesome field around it.

Sure... but neither does the ground.

So does this lifter have stable footing that won't give way?

What happens when the weight of a house/giant boulder/yeddim is suddenly shifted and brought to bear on such a small surface area?

Can the lifter's shoes survive that kind of treatment?

>>52975871

No, no, and no. If you actually read what I wrote you'd see that I don't believe those questions need to be asked of the supernatural being or exalt performing impossible heroic deeds via charms. In the archer's case in particular they are using a charm like arrow storm technique to do the impossible, but it won't have an effect on their equipment. In 1e using Heavenly Guardian Defense to block a meteor would destroy a mundane sword - how dare they invent a charm tax to prevent you from being cool.

Strongmen can do a ton of things without needing a charm tax, but good job misrepresenting my argument for the tenth fucking time. The Exalt can do the impossible without needing more explanation than 'i have a charm' but that same awesome field doesn't apply to everything they interact with automatically, like an otherwise totally mundane house.

>>52971712

You can have the house be damaged, rendered structurally unsound, and even have parts of it collapse, without being a dick and having it kill the orphans.

It's also a significantly different scenario than picking it up by its porch and whacking people with it, which was the situation that started the discussion.

>>52973214

Liger != Ligier

>>52973829

Good to know. Next time I'm misfortunate enough be on a table you're running, I'll just state that I kill everyone with toxic projectile shit shot from my anus, and if you tell me I can't do that, I'll just say you've got no imagination, and you don't need a fucking Charm for everything.

>>52974746

So wait, I can lift a house because Superman can, but I can't shoot eyebeams from eyes, despite Superman being able to? How do we pick and choose what abilities from which media a given character can and cannot do with just a dice pool?

That's the whole reason rules exist. They tell you what you can and can't do. With huge dice pools you can do really, really difficult things. You can notice tiny details from a long distance with a good roll, because that's hard, but you can't see through stone without a charm that explicitly lets you do that, because that's actually physically impossible.

>>52976251
>>52976233
>>52975958
>>52975871

This is just a theory, but I like the idea that using Charms is like "changing the type of story Creation is telling", in a metaphysical sense. Like, there's one "consistent/realistic" story that the world is usually built on, forged out of the Wyld by the will of the primordials and/or the belief of humanity/other sentient beings. But every magical being has a story of its own, so like when a Solar uses their Charms, they project a field of "this is the story of a mighty. radiant hero-king" in a particular way that makes the world temporarily agree with their version of how things go. It's similar to how I imagine stunts work in-setting, but magnified.

So, when a Solar spends essence to become capable of lifting a heavy object, the floor won't collapse under them because that's not what happens in that sort of story - the Charm doesn't just make his muscles stronger, it makes the local IDEA of "the hero can lift this massive object" stronger.

>>52975958

This is a good point. You're saying, rightly, well, what about the ground the hero is standing on and what about her equipment? Since those things are the frame of the heroic deed, you generally need to assume those things can handle it until they can't. It would be stunt fodder in all honesty, maybe the ground does break apart and your shoes flatten as you lift a twenty ton titan, but it wouldn't stop you from lifting it.

If that sounds arbitrary, then that is because it is and I acknowledge it is the weakest part of my argument, but its easier to accept than the kind of fuzziness involved in how crazy the parts of things you can lift are before they break apart. Like which part of the house are you lifting by? The porch? A window frame? Can you lift a tree by a leaf without the leaf breaking? Can you tie a piece of string to a rock and lift all of Creation by it? Can you pull yourself up by your bootstraps and fly?

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How do you guys feel about antagonists or NPCs in general stunting? I'm happy to give a nice description for stuff NPCs do, but some part of me feels that they shouldn't really get the stunt bonus, or, at least they should get it as little as possible.

>>52976459
This is a little divorced from the concept of superhuman skill.

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>>52977163

Stunts are mostly for PC's in my games. The NPC's already are woven from pure bullshit because they have everything they generally "need" by default because they're NPC's. They don't need bonus dice just because I'm deciding to be flowery with my descriptions.

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>>52977163
My GM's have always been super conservative about stunting, so you don't get anything unless you use the situation in a particularly advantageous way (lightning attacks on a wet creature, throwing someone out a window, etc) so having a neat description wouldn't be considered enough for a PC, which is something I never really liked, but I feel it would work well for NPC's.

>>52977163
I give it to them if they're important or powerful and don't if they're not.

>>52977217

Isn't that what the different point values of stunts are for? Lightning on a wet enemy sounds like a solid 2 dot stunt.

>>52972644
It was hinted at somewhere in the forums that white veil was one of the style they considered for the db book.

>>52977163

High tier antagonists that are not meant for killing I tend to stunt. I like to like to have a cast of antagonists that the players get to know and hate. My stunting is usually an indicator to the players that this is important. For minor antagonists (see the majority) I never stunt and just let things fall as they may.

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>>52977523
>I like to like to have a cast of antagonists that the players get to know and hate

To this day I take great joy that the mere mention of an NPC's name can make one of my players go angry, autistic screeching mode, figuratively.

>>52977163
General thing I've come up with in my few sessions of running Exalted is that anybody who the PCs should try to remember and can throw at least five dice at a problem can do 1 dot stunts at minimum. Any higher ratings I leave for my players to judge, to remove my own bias.

>>52978273
>To this day I take great joy that the mere mention of an NPC's name can make one of my players go angry, autistic screeching mode, figuratively.
Don't be a cocktease anon, give us a storytime.

>>52977333
That's my thought too, but I guess I've just had really stingy GMs

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>>52979028

Alright, storytime. I make no promises as to it's quality, and it's all gonna be greentext'd.

>one player has a Lunar mate
>the mate is an NPC
>mate is pretty much a generalist, doesn't really do much of anything "right", he just does everything, but he invites the player to come see his, uh..."empire"
>mate runs a small island "empire", thats uh...an "empire" in name only
>it's literally like 40 people, tops
>most unskilled labor
>said island is also a geomantic mess due to a manse explosion a while ago, Earth essence is fucking the land up by making shit hard as stone, chopping a single tree is a huge effort for example
>but it's so far away from everything it probably won't be bothered by anything, so hey, could be worse, right?
>player begins probing mate about their past, why they don't like X and Y, etc, since the mate seems really insecure about a lot of shit
>find out mate has a shitton of money
>wait, where'd you get all this money
>turns out they got it lent from their old circle
>key word: Lent
>as in, gotta pay it back
>ohboy.jpg
>also starts telling the player about their shitty life because the player kept probing
>ohboyherewegoagain.jpg
>how his tribe got rolled the fuck over and sold into slavery
>but he escaped with his brothers!
>but they were a Northern tribe
>bunch of kids in the North
>young kids
>alone
>start freezing to death one by one, first one to go was already half dead due to blood loss from an arrow in him anyway
>last brother dies trying to keep him alive
>he barely makes it...because he got picked up the slavers they were trying to run from in the first place
>life is totally what you'd expect for a child slave
>pretty much abused like a motherfucker until he's bought by some old couple
>turns out old couple was looking for a replacement for their dead son
>totally not creepy at all, right?
>at this point the player is totally engrossed in this shit
>to be continued

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https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/210741
>be OPP
>try to revive interest in Exalted
>promise people new antagonists and monsters as episodic releases
>(not such a bad idea in general as far as this anon is concerned)
>make the first release a single Solar character
>Solar
>the one fucking character type we can customize the shit out of
>try to charge a buck for it

Pictured: Rich working.

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>>52979148
>turns out the couple was mostly on the up and up, actually, you know
>taught him
>took care of him
>eventually he strikes out on his own
>pauses story there, because he doesn't want to go over exactly how he Exalted in the first place
>player bugging for that nugget the next few sessions
>long story short, being a jack of all trades worked well for him, because he ended up at sea and went through some Tom Hanks shit
>ends up being picked up by a sorceress
>mate clams up again when it comes to this, because he really does not like this sorceress, apparently
>player is totally committed to finding out what the fuck is up with this
>distracts player with stories about his old
>"old" being not very old it seems, he recently left with them, on decent terms
>of course, they were a bit loopy themselves, this circle, one was a straight up body stealing vain cannable who ate people she considered prettier than her, always fun, right?
>so this is who he borrowed money from to try and start his little, uh...kingdom
>because, and here is the important part: this guy is a complete bleeding heart
>Compassion 5, because Virtues existed back when he was created
>he's had such a shitty life he wants to try and make a better, more peaceful life for everyone he can
>so one day he gets a 'call' from his circle that they're gonna come visit and see what progress he's made, since it's been a few years
>player basically shits themselves because they realize while this NPC has his heart in the right place, he's basically made 0 real progress
>queue Solar trying to jump start this shit
>begins rescuing slaves
>getting proper housing built
>business set up
>trying to salvage this shit before his old friends come back and go "the fuck have you done with all of this money we lent you"?
>player at this point is, for whatever reason, beyond engrossed, now it's personal for them, they want it all to work out, I totally roped them with the sob stories
>to be continued
>to be continued

>>52979227
Oh look, it's another guy who's salty that the antagonists aren't meant to be previews of books that are literal years out.

>>52979253
I don't expect them to hand me a fifty page brochure on Getimians, but I expect something more than a Solar character sheet with a couple hundred words of backstory.

>>52979296
Eh, the backstory's not that bad, she's a pretty good stabbin' antagonist, and there'll be more shit down the line from everything else.

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>>52979249
>so at this point, the old circle of this NPC starts to trickle in
>first one is a monkey totem, absolute bro of this NPC mate
>second is a complete spastic with an attention span of roughly 0. They don't even call it by name, they just call it "The Cat" because it's both the totem and the general level of attentiveness from this NPC
>3rd is of course, Miss I'll Fucking Eat You
>and her entourage
>yes, entourage
>turns out Miss I'll Fucking Eat You is the oldest member of the circle, and has her own actual little kingdom and swinging her big ol' figurative dick around and generally being an asshat because she's the oldest
>also, Snake totem, because that shit is horrifying and fun when you realize she eats people
>thanks to the player, things actually go well
>manages to keep everyone happy and show the progress, that she busted her ass on getting this guys little kingdom setup
>it is basically the players kingdom at this point, and everyone more or less knows it, including the mate who straight up wifes her because of all of this
>oh, except one other thing
>remember that sorceress I mentioned earlier?
>no, it's not Miss I'll Fucking Eat You, even though she is a sorceress herself too (oh, and did I mention she was eyeing the player up like a snack too? because the player had a high App. That was fun)
>Miss I'll Fucking Eat You drops the word that this sorceress is gonna show up
>player immeadiately begins to grill their mate husbandou about this sorceress and why exactly he has such a fear/dislike of her
>well, at this point, mate just can't hide it any longer
>said sorceress was the one who put him through the ringer when it came to his trials
>turns out she's fairly well aged: Been around since the Shogunate if mate can guess correctly
>naturally, player is already not liking any of this so far
>but the one thing
>the ONE
>FUCKING
>THING
>that sets the player off, is not any of the actually bad shit said about this sorceress
>to be continued

>>52979315
Still, for the same buck, I can buy myself a bottle of decent beer, sit in my comfy chair and crank out a Solar antagonist with a good enough backstory and stats custom-tailored to the role I want them to play in the particular campaign I'm running right now, all in a pleasant hour or so.

>>52979351
Apophis best girl.

>>52979253

> Guy defending charging a buck for something you could get fifty of for free by posting "so, anons, tell me about your characters"

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>>52979351
>you know, like, actually bad shit
>like how this sorceress apparently enjoys trying to mess with other areas, because she believes only the fit will survive, so she makes sure they're fit
>like how this sorceress apparently loves trying to monitor all sorts of shit via sorcery and has a fairly big information network that she checks regularly
>like how she puts any she finds through the literal ringer, because you asshole kids got it easy what with no Shogunate around etc etc so she's gonna make sure you're well and tested
>or how she's probably outright committed more than than a few atrocities in her time
>nope
>what sets the player off
>is that the sorceress once
>ONCE
>tried to sleep with her mate
>note that this was long before they even met
>well, less sleep, more likely probable yandere murder, but it didn't quite go that far, said sorceress got distracted and well, it was actually a limit break thing but they didn't know that obviously
>so why was the sorceress showing up?
>well, the last bit of money the mate borrowed from her
>and she wanted to personally see it was put to use
>also, y'know, foment some chaos in his little shitburg because she could
>so anyway, player is now incredibly pissed at this character already, never even met them, they just really are mad as fuck that their mate almost got maybe-raped by a powerful as fuck sorceress who also put him through the ringer for their Lunar trials
>this mate by the way, only exists because the player asked me to make a mate for them because they wanted one
>and I am a living monkey's paw when it comes to requests, so I happily filled that one
>and the player is already steaming mad by the time this sorceress sets foot on this place
>again, not for any of the truly horrible shit they've done
>but because they tried to hump their husbandou
>oh, and remember how I mentioned the sorceress likes to spy on shit?
>guess who's been watching everything the whole time
>to be continued

>>52979351
>>52979425
Wringer.

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>>52979425
>the player was not a sorcerer
>and of course Mr. Mate Husbandou didn't know any sorcery, it just wasn't in the cards for him
>he was a Changing Moon if it matters, so more of a social sort with a decent mess of charms, again, not really a powerful guy, just very broad in his application
>anyway, said sorceress has taken a particular interest, because now one of her favorite little 'students', so to speak, had a Solar partner
>and this was INTERESTING to her, since she's never had that, and wants to see how this can play out, and has been intensely monitoring their whole little mess as soon as she realized this one found an actual mate
>so this sorceress pretty much disarms the player right off the bat by saying shit she 'couldn't possibly know', but does, because she's been monitoring everything, watching this Solar set up everything and try her best to get her husbandou's shit up to par and whatever
>player goes from mad to madder because she knows she can't possibly mess with this thing beyond social Charms, but hey, she's a social sort, she is a Zenith
>but of course, me being a general wiseass and jokester myself, just about everything spilling from this sorceress' mouth is some kind of veiled hint or insult that she knows it all, because she does, and every time the player tries to counter snipe, she can just drop an embarassing bomb
>which she does, several times, because hey, when you live this long you pick up some social shit too, you know?
>so we've got a low level-ish Solar and a high level Lunar, who hilariously have about the same relative power tier of social Charms because Lunars have such shit social and Solars have such good social, it sort of balances
>constantly vindictively sniping at one another
>until one thing
>ONE
>THING
>makes the player finally snap
>her character goes to take a sip of wine
>and the sorceress tells her not to do that because pregnant women shouldn't drink
>to be continued

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>>52979524
>now, all of this had been happening over a year in game time, from meeting this mate until the point this sorceress arrived
>also several months of play
>players character was, at this point, pregnant, and knew it IC and OOC
>husbandou didn't know, however
>she was waiting to surprise him
>sorceress did know she was pregnant of course, because she's been spying on goddamn everything she could
>player had been using Charms to keep up appearances that she wasn't knocked up, and still drink and do normal shit, since she was also kind of Med focused so she could just erase the alcohol right out of whatever she was drinking as it hit her lips, more or less
>she fucking EXPLODED when the sorceress let loose with that one
>fucking DIVED over the dinner table at her
>landed a bitch slap so hard most of the village probably heard it
>broke her hand on the sorceress' face (not really, I mean, yeah she did, but mechanically it didn't do anything, just for pure flavor really)
>Husbandou mate flips his shit because she is his benefactor despite how much he doesn't like this sorceress and, well, respect is a thing
>especially when what you should be respecting is basically some eldritch fucking monster with like a thousand years on you
>sorceress at that point, is pretty damn pleased with herself beyond all measure
>mostly because she'd been egging this Solar on as best as she could the entire time and she finally broke and tried to slap a bitch
>and for her, that was enough
>player at this point by the way, is basically trying to strangle the sorceress, while her mate holds her back
>and she just sits there smiling and downing some wine, and just gets up and heads off
>tells the Husbandou to keep the money, it's had good use, and gooses his ass just to add an extra bit of anger to the Solar just because what kicked this whole thing off was the idea she might sleep with him in the first place
>to be continued

>>52979361
>decent beer for a dollar

Where the fuck do you live?

>>52979422
>abloobloobloo solars are boring baaaaw

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>>52979608
>so at this point, the player absolutely hates this NPC
>and of course this NPC realizes this Solar is a goddamn gold mine to fuck around with, because lets face it, after a few hundred years of being an asshole to people you don't know, it's nice
>really nice
>to get under someones skin so much they try to choke you out at whats supposed to be a nice, formal, friendly little dinner
>she's interested in this little couple, and now for her, it's a game to mess with them whenever she can spare some time
>also for kicks she totally ratted out on some infidelities/issues/etc this Solar has had
>because this Solar had Overindulgence as a Limit and occasionally went on sex/drug/drinking/etc binges despite trying to be a model waifu for her husbandou
>sorceress ratted this info out to some merchants in town who had been wanting to expand but the player didn't like because she thought they were "too cutthroat" in their business practices
>so now blackmail had begun atop that because the Solar had somehow managed to keep those moments of weakness hidden from her husbandou
>of course sorceress was to blame for it and she told them to tell her that
>at one point this ended up with her snapping once again and literally pulling some overweight merchant over her knee like a kid and tanning his hide right in public before dragging him off and threatening him with death if he ever breathed a word of it to anyone
>of course, any other time anything goes wrong, this player now thinks it this sorceress
>sometimes it is, but generally beyond what I've said, it isn't
>once she figured out HOW the sorceress knew so much she invested in countermeasures against what she was doing so she couldn't just glean info anymore
>to this day the player hates this sorceress above all else
>I of course make sure to have her pop in every now and then just because I can, but it's rare at best, never overuse something that provokes great reactions from players, or else it'll grow stale

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>>52979695

And heres a few other tidbits just because. This player in general loves social stuff. It's their thing. They liked all the world building of meeting all these weirdos, getting the whole town project realized, etc. I just never expected the sorceress to really strike a chord with them so hatefully over a small detail. So I ran with that once I knew I had something that made them absolutely loathe the sorceress NPC and to this day they still sperg out whenever the NPC's name comes up. They really, honestly hate this character.

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>>52979740

Oh, and the time from meeting the sorceress to things coming to the Solar trying to chokeslam her through a wall was roughly 4 in game days and about 8 hours real time. This was quite a number of years ago IRL.

Have a good night everyone, hope my greentext bullshit maybe kept you interested, I'm tired as fuck and need sleep.

>>52979618
>>abloobloobloo solars are boring baaaaw

Solars aren't boring. I love Solars. Solar antagonists are pointless, because I already have 20-odd Solars started up in my gaming folder. Give me a Water-Aspected DB. Or a Sidereal melee. Or a social monster that isn't a Fair Folk. Some more gods, or spirits. Please, for the love of all Creation, a sample Behemoth.

There are plenty of gaps in the antagonist section without needing to go into the esoteric Exalted.

>>52979618
>Where the fuck do you live?
Poland. Admittedly it helps that my tastes in beer are rather pedestrian. Still, the point stands.

>solars are boring baaaaw
Solars aren't boring, but a single Solar character with three paragraphs of backstory is not something I'm willing to pay any money for.

>>52979884
>Solar antagonists are pointless, because I already have 20-odd Solars started up in my gaming folder

Pointless for you perhaps, but I'm actually finding this one might have use in a thing coming up for my own game, so...impasse.

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Need a little EX3 help, Anons. Our circle just hit E2 and while we've all built pretty well rounded characters I've become the defacto party face. What are some fun and useful charms I might be ignoring, or just face advice in general?

>integrity supernal
>presence 3
>harmonious presence
>socialize 5
>motive discerning
>humble servant

>>52979618
>>abloobloobloo solars are boring baaaaw
So, while addressing things people actually said isn't necessarily our strength in best of times,this thread seems to have particular problems with it. I wonder if there's some reason for it or it it's just a coincidence. Either way, pretending people said something else than they did, to the face of those people who damn sure know what they said, on a forum where it's easy to check what they actually said, is pretty goddamn dumb. It also tends to undermine even reasonable arguments the person behaving like this might make.

>>52980095

Mastery of Small Manners, Energic Influence Technique, and Rancor-Raising Spirit are all good ways of sneaking in Minor Intimacies that can't be resisted, for future use. (Minors are really the key ones - once they've got a minor, they can't use willpower to increase it expanding)

Intent-Tracing Stare is good for knowing who has designs on you and your friends. Prenumbra Self Meditation makes sure that one dirty secret that could totally screw you over in this situation doesn't get out. Inverted Ego Mask for misdirecting people instead of flat-out resisted their attmpts to read you.

Also, buy more Presence. You pretty much need 5 in any ability you plan to buy many charms in, as the vast majority of them are gated away behind 5.

There are some great Integrity charms, but they tend not to be that social. Grab the willpower-regaining ones though. That's tops.

>>52980102
He's not pretending, just assuming. Folks elsewhere have basically posted complaints about the snippet along those lines ("we want to see something new, not boring Solar shit", etc...) It really wasn't an unreasonable assumption for that anon to make.

>>52980278
This is all helpful advice, thank you! The part about forcing in extra Intimacies looks especially useful.

>>52980352
Considering that people explicitly stated their actual complaints before anon went all abloobloo, yes, it is really fucking unreasonable.

>>52980383
It really isn't. "Solars are boring" has been a meme for ages, for a reason.

>>52980278
I'm already eyeing up the meditation charms, but other than Sun King Radiance I don't see a lot that looks directly useful.

>>52980401
That is irrelevant, anon. When someone says that he doesn't consider Solar antagonists worth paying for because we already have the Solar book and several forums with people willing to talk about their characters or NPCs, it doesn't make one lick of sense to assume that the someone in question is actually just bitching about Solars being boring. Memes, however annoying they may be, aren't a good reason to ignore what people are actually saying.

>>52980446
>Memes, however annoying they may be, aren't a good reason to ignore what people are actually saying.

A pervasive one like that is decent enough reason to assume somebody means something other than what they're saying, anon.

>>52980451

Why do you even bother discussing anything with anybody, if you just decide you're going to project whatever you want, instead of reading what they actually say?

>>52980451
What >>52980525 said. If you're just going to assume what people actually mean instead of giving a fuck about what they're saying, you don't really need other people to keep a discussion going, do you? Your collection of strawmen will serve just as well.

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>>52980525
>>52980545
I don't really care too much if you want to deny reality this hard, but literally nothing you are saying really changes the fact that it was a perfectly reasonable conclusion to draw given what other people have said about the material and how common a belief it is.

>>52963220
What kinda music do people use in their games/ for inspiration? I'm really liking the soundtrack to Killer Instinct lately, paricularly Spinal's theme

>>52980579

> One person said this thing, and another person said something tangentially related, therefore conflating them is perfectly logical.

Your logic is not like our earth logic

>>52980579
> it was a perfectly reasonable conclusion to draw given what other people have said about the material and how common a belief it is.
I don't give a shit what other people have said. What I had said is that I see no point in paying for a premade Solar antagonist because it's the only kind of antagonist I already have rules for making, and I'm rarely strapped for character ideas. A reasonable thing to do is engage with that argument, rather than the assumed hidden motivation behind it.

>>52980938
For what it's worth, I'm the guy who originally replied to you, and while it's true I was cynically skeptical at first, I at least accept the correction as to your motivation.

>>52980938
>take the word of every rando you see on the internets at exactly face value

lol ok

>>52981120
It must be crippling to be literally unable to trust *anybody*.

>>52981151

Not just trust, but being absolutely certain everyone is lying, not about facts or things they disagree with, but about *their own opinions*. That requires a degree of paranoia that's borderline pathological.

>>52980726

None, frankly. I dunno if I'm the odd one out, but while I find music inspiring, it rarely inspires my RPG writing.

>>52981120
Dude, I'm not asking you to trust me with your bank account info, I'm sharing an opinion about a roleplaying game supplement. What would I gain by obscuring my reasoning as to why I don't like it? More importantly, what do you gain by engaging with the assumed hidden reasoning rather than the stated reasoning?

>>52981196
"One hamburger please"
"Right, one hotdog coming up."
"No, a hamburger."
"But you'd like a hotdog, that's what everyone else around here orders."
"Okay, but I'm not them. I want a hamburger."
"I think you could easily understand why I'd assume you want a hotdog when you asked for a hamburger"
"Why the hell would you assume that?"
"Can't be too careful these days, Anon. It's a pit of snakes out there."

I need to make an NPC tavern owner like this.

>>52982024
Yeah, I'm stealing that.

>>52977163
I let my players judge stunts. I judge theirs, they judge mine.
They're honest enough.

>>52977163
Well, first, NPCs don't have to use the same rules that PCs use. The book itself suggests this as an approach for Quick Characters, but really, why wouldn't you use it for every character?

Given that I set the skill levels of the antagonists and NPCs anyway, I just assign dice pools based on how that character fits into the setting and the story and leave it at that. I don't bother working out what a given character's manipulation + presence is, I just say "the master manipulator rolls nine dice" because nine sounds about right for a masterfully eloquent character who isn't using essence.

>>52972544
Then don't comlpain about realism.
You're smug about things you don't see in the game because you actively shun them.

>>52982024
Hamburgers are boring, anon.

anybody know of any elementals or 1cd that was in 1e but not 2e? (and if so where to find them)

>>52973980
I think I'd rather assume mermaids default to airbreathing, and need a merit for proper gills
>>52984456
hotdogs are boring, hamburgers are superior

>>52985073
Thanks for sharing

>>52984910
REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

every time someone tells a story about their exalted game

my interest wanes

>>52987040
Why's that anon?

>>52987109
because it reminds me how much the setting conceits box you in and force you to tell a particular type of story

whether you recognize it consciously or not

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>>52979420

Funny enough, the Snake totem eventually showed up again. Badly wounded and near death, and then vomited a child up on their beach, literally. They patched her up once they fixed her wound (which was a bitch to fix due to Lunar Charms preventing healing), and it turns out she tried to enroach on another, older Lunar's territory. She got her shit kicked in because she was drinking her own Kool Aid a bit too much and thought she could handle it. Wounded heavily by the other Lunar she tried to overthrow, but not before having all of her daughters executed in front of her, except her last, which she managed to smuggle out when she made her escape-The kid she vomited up on the beach.

The one who beat her when she tried to take his land thought she was dead with wounds like she had and escaping and all that, but Lunars do tend to be good at surviving. Survived a thousand mile (exaggerated) swim through salt water with a giant open wound. Feeling sorry for her, the players granted her asylum. Which probably was a mistake on their part, as I've generally shown this Snake Lunar to be an asshat. But she's on her best behavior since. She already got her shit kicked in and lost everything, so now they had an ally, more or less.

Eventually, however, the one who kicked the crap out of her managed to learn she was still alive. Not wishing to start a "problem" with another Lunar-Because he saw that territory as another Lunar's that he had no issue with, but still wanting to draw the Snake totem out to finish the job, he decided on the next best course of action: Kidnap someone close to that Lunar, aka Mr. Husbandou, and then ransom them for the life of the Snake totem.

Which meant he'd go after whoever was first outside the territory, which also happened to be the Solar waifu, which he succeeded on abducting, and squirreling away to literally across Creation with. However, now she's seduced this guy, and is unsure if she wants to leave, funny enough.

>>52987160
I mean that's true of any game that has a concrete setting. Typically the setting is the thing that interests people, that and the type of stories you can tell in it. If you don't enjoy the setting there's not much point in it.

>>52987191
So the solar who freaked at the idea of her lunar husbando having been hit on by another woman decided to seduce this new lunar and is considering staying with him. Yeah, that is pretty funny, in a way.

>>52987238
i mean some yes, but not all

there are plenty of settings that can simply act as backdrop without forcing particular play boxes

that was the entire point of points of light, for that matter

So, we know Minton is a house-denier. Do you suppose Vance is as well, or is he pro-houser? On the one hand, it would be good to have him balance Mintons absurd need to inject realism at random to ruin the game, but on the other hand, a less unified vision on the whole could harm the line in the long run.

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>>52987437

Players are weird, what can I say. Also this other Lunar is actually doing fairly well for himself. Few hundred years old, has a decently maintained area, and is worshipped as a God-King. However, he's not quite up to shrugging off being barraged with Solar social Charms (Full Moon), even though he does have his own stuff. So she's basically seduced him by this point, but is now unsure if she actually wants to leave because now. She feels a bit sorry for him after getting his side of the whole shit with the Snake totem. I dunno if she wants an ally, or she thinks this is a second husbandou, or, I dunno. I do wonder if I somehow gave her Stockholm Syndrome or something, because wanting to stay with the guy who kidnapped you just to ransom you off for someone else is a bit weird.

Then again, despite the whole kidnapping business, she was well treated. Pretty much a "You don't try to run and we won't throw your ass in those chains that stop you from doing anything" deal, which she kept to, and he gave her a nice place in his palatial manse and servants to look after her and the like.

I guess the tl;dr is she's managed to turn being kidnapped into a mini vacation for herself. She's even tried to broker a different deal.

>>52987611
Many of Vance's responses have been "Sure, I don't see how that breaks anything." That same attitude places him firmly on pro-house ground.

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>>52987437

Oh, and don't forget, her Limit break was Overindulgence. So she does occasionally hit the breaking point and hauls off to go snort coke off a bunch of dicks or whatever the fuck it is Solars do when they decide to Charlie Sheen it up due to the GC.

Thanks to her social and medical Charms though, she's never really had any downsides or aftereffects from when she breaks though because she can usually threaten/coerce/whatever any unintended witnesses.

>>52976433
>You can notice tiny details from a long distance with a good roll, because that's hard, but you can't see through stone without a charm that explicitly lets you do that, because that's actually physically impossible.
I don't buy this. Seeing tiny details from immense distances IS physically impossible. A human can't do that. The solar needs to use magic to do it because it's not possible. You're saying some impossible things are okay while others aren't and there's no consistent reasoning.

>>52979842
Thanks for interrupting all the mechanical jerking off from people who don't actually play the game with a cool story. Seriously.

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>>52987611
>>52987650

>>52975274
>You don't need to answer questions like body mass or skeletal enhancements - they're not important.
Neither is the house's structural integrity! Jesus Christ you make no sense whatsoever. It's a house, 'you want to pick up the house, okay use your charms and do it, great you did it.' You're concocting all this bullshit about "awesome fields" because you have this inherent need to limit your players in arbitrary ways to maintain control. There's no other reason to give a shit about the house collapsing on itself when it's picked up except your own personal GMing shortcomings. You sound like a used car salesman. It's pathetic.

>>52987773
>interrupting
Nothing is interrupted you know

>>52987611
You are stupider than the guy with a pathological inability to take people at face value.

>>52987611
The hell is house-denier vs pro-houser?

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>>52987773

I enjoy a good mechanical wank though. When I'm a player I'm all about the mechanics, because thats fun for me. But because I'm enjoying spilling random shit about this game, I suppose I'll keep doing so if people are actually liking this shit to a degree.

Fr'instance, the story that made the player feel bad about this was learning the Snake totem Lunar tried to kick off the whole shebang with this other Lunar she wanted to steal territory from by seducing and eating his son, and then trying to murder him under that guise with surprise while her own forces advanced on his city. With appropriate sorcerous backup (ie: elementals, demons, etc). He slapped her shit right into the ground though, because he knew sorcery as well, and being a Full Moon and roughly 500-800 years old, began kicking the piss out of her. Once he marshalled his own forces, he begins beating them back, captures her daughters, and has them executed before her while she's bound and chained. He's still pissed about his kid though, and pretty much near fatally wounds her, infuses the wound with that Charm whose name I forget from older editions that prevents wounds from healing, and then hurls her out of his city into the most dangerous part of his lands (here be river dragons and shit, you know the deal), and sics soldiers on her with a promise that whoever kills her will see fame and fortune.

She got out of there alive (running around with a -4 penalty and no way to break the Charm to heal herself), and also managed to locate her last surviving daughter and save her. And then escape to the sea, and swim an ungodly fucking distance still at -4 and make it to the Solar's island since she figured her old circle mate wouldn't throw her to the wolves.

>>52987892
One is a conceit of the Exalt being a myth hero, the other is a peasant dwelling that doesn't share those same conceits. My argument has always been that the setting of Exalted does not treat these two things equally.

As I said here >>52977088, since you're not applying a consistent rule to the other mundane shit in the setting, how crazy the parts of things you can lift are before they break apart. Like which part of the house are you lifting by? The porch? A window frame? Can you lift a tree by a leaf without the leaf breaking? Can you tie a piece of string to a rock and lift all of Creation by it?

You cannot provide a consistent answer because you're drawing inspiration from diverse media that are not exalted, and usually fucking contradict each other.

>>52987974
Pro-housers believe that if you buy all the strength charms in the Solar Athletics tree, you should be able to pick up a house.

House-deniers think that picking up a house is unrealistic and that Exalted should be bound by realism in very specific circumstances that arbitrarily ruin very specific character concepts while not applying consistently to everything (mundane bows, swords, clothing, etc.

>>52987892
>You're concocting all this bullshit about "awesome fields" because you have this inherent need to limit your players in arbitrary ways to maintain control. There's no other reason to give a shit about the house collapsing on itself when it's picked up except your own personal GMing shortcomings. You sound like a used car salesman. It's pathetic.

Actually its a desire for internal consistency and to create a sense verisimilitude when a ramshackle house falls apart but an ancient first tower does not.

But yeah I'm sure the real reason is I hate my players and the answer is to treat everything like a Saturday morning cartoon.

>>52988262

It was better when you at least pretended to be interested in arguing.

>>52988376
I was just trying to explain in brief what had been established about both sides. I had to use more words for the deniers because their stance is more complex.

Hypothetically, there is a third side here, which consistency applies realism to the detriment of everyone, not just solar strongmen specifically.

I didn't want to conflate deniers with that hypothetical side and misrepresent them.

>>52988555
You're pretending Pro-housers are consistent, which they are not.

Reading coc:malfeas, found a chapter on infernal booze claiming it as a resources 5 purchase...

I realize the market for this sort of thing would be absurdly small and ridiculously easy to flood and plummet prices, but how is some summoner not just bringing in a couple casks or two a week as his full time job? same for "Demons just semi-casually grow 20ft talks of pure gold"

related question: is wanting to convert these
http://bastion.wikia.com/wiki/Spirits
to alchemy potions as demon alcohol badwrongfun?

>>52989145

Gold isn't used for much at all in Creation since it's associated with Solars and thus, anathema. The primary currency for most shit is silver, or jade. But yeah, the game pretty much never takes into account the ways you could possibly break it with all of the crazy shit.

>>52989506
>Gold isn't used for much at all in Creation since it's associated with Solars and thus, anathema.

3e fluff doesn't really specify a Solar connection. Gold commands a lot of value and is commonly used...as a decorative metal rather than a coinage metal. Basically like how the Aztecs used it.

re: the house debate

A sample FoS is a Solar ripping a chasm in the ground. What if, instead of picking the house up by part of the house, they sunder the ground beneath the house, creating a separate rocky slab that supports the foundation of the house, and then pick up the foundation?

Would that scenario satisfy both parties?

>>52987773

How long you gonna jerk off to your own cleverness at having come up with that as hominem?

>>52990327
I'd tell you a story about how great it was but you'd get bored quickly because it didn't have any edge case mechanics to argue about. I can only do so much. Sorry :(

>>52990026
>The Great Housing War of 2017

>>52990399
Just to nitpick, the FoS discussion is more about thematic shit than mechanics.

>>52990026
You've just advocated a house denier position without realizing it.

Are you a House Cuck or a House-Denier Bro?

>>52991162

This is going to be the new Bronze vs Gold, isn't it?

I'll have you know that I actually suggested to my Lunar mate that she start sleeping with by Dragon Blooded generals. It helps create an army of super powered beastfolk and has brought us closer together in ways you could never understand.

>>52991133
I feel like this is a more moderate position that could roll at a table with people on both sides.

It's not realistic, but it makes a nod to verasimilitude.

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>>52991319
>brought us closer together in ways you could never understand.

>>52992051

What're you going to do about it? Usurp us? You only hate us because we have something you could never attain.

>>52992119
varren scale itch?

>>52992681

>varren scale itch?

Nah, got enough points in Resistance that I don't need to worry about it.

>>52989145
What kind of daydream would you order in a bar?

>>52993022

Having a gf...

>>52990404
>The Great Housing War of 2017
We have this while Eve Online has a war over anime. I wonder what's next.

>>52971565
I'd more distribute your strength evenly across the object, Gentle Giant Grasp Kata.

>>52993427
World War III because Trump gestures at 5'2" and says "Kim, I've had it up to here with you." in his weekly address.

you're all missing the most salient question

what kind of house? mcmansion? wattle-and-daub cottage? this shit matters

>>52994192

I wouldn't allow a player to be able to lift a Manse for the same reason that they wouldn't be able to shatter an Artefact. Other than that, there's a side bar in the core detailing that some shit is too big to lift or grapple and you ought to use common sense. So lifting a palace is a no, but ripping off and lifting its towers and ramparts one by one is fine.

>>52994292
sorry i guess the sarcasm came off wrong

this shit literally does not matter

the important guideline -- really the only guideline -- is "does this make sense in context?"

and the answer is going to be different for every. fucking. group.

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>>52996404

>>52969014
Ya know what's crazy? About 10 years ago I was arguing the exact same shit on the Exalted forums. About the house falling apart when you try to pick it up.

>most of creation ran on normal physics, but then Exalts, specifically, got to run on I'M AWESOME physics, because they're Exalts
But what I really wanted to say is that comments like this are why I've always loved discussions about Exalted.

Have they finally made it so that you can play mortals games in Exalted without going splat the first time you get hit?

does anything in the setting break if I make other kinds of dust?
Firedust is just the only one that's both mostly stable and good for weapons so it's far and away the most common.

although it's hot, most of the south isn't literally on fire. even the extreme far south, so their dust tends to survive to be collected.

air dust releases a pressurized burst of air in contact with air. found in the far north where ice occasionally explodes when cracked(but the ice formed from frozen air is distinctive enough it can be recognized with experience).

waterdust is dehydrated water just add water. which tends to just become regular water because it generally settles onto the open ocean anyway. but the water it unpacks into is fresh and pure so the stuff that manages to fall on islands is valuable for ships.

wood dust would be super fertilizer and probably IS collected, it's just used in farming not weapons.

and earth dust is a bit like cement, building up thin layers of stone when it makes contact with earth, growing sedimentary rock and slowly filling in cracks and caverns deep underground?

>>52999015

and if not, how much should an artifact produce when fed an elemental to render down?

>>52998685
It somewhat depends on who you're fighting, but yes. Mortal-on-mortal combat usually won't end with someone being oneshotted during the first round, anyways.

>>52998685
I believe this is a considered a "feature" to make the solar's story that much more awesome and reenforce the lesser race's position as props in a solar's story 9_9

>>52999836
In a shocking surprise development, anon managed to shove several different misunderstandings, possibly intentional, into one sentence. It's almost impressive.

>>52999015

That wouldn't break it - I'd just expect the other dusts to be harder to gather.

For example - Waterdust might need to be filtered from the oceans of the West, or made by boiling down a vast amount of seawater (making it Wyld-altered salt, basically).

I've seen a few variant dusts on the wiki, with basically similar effects.

Autochthonian element-dust would be interesting - especially as they'd be more likely to use it in neat ways. In Creation, if there are any Alchemical Manses lying around, it could be an especially rare form of dust.

>>52998685

For a more in-depth answer:

Your capacity to injure someone is based on your initiative, which value at the start of battle is based on your Join Battle roll. Mortals have a crap Join Battle roll, therefore crap Initiative, therefore crap capacity to injure someone. Your bog standard mortal warrior starts the battle with maybe 6 initiative, which is enough to knock off two health levels if they land a blow.

If they want to OHK someone, they need to spend a few rounds trading blows to build initiative, then go for the kill. Or they can go straight for the minor injury, built up a little initiative, rinse, repeat, to kill someone with a bunch of little cuts.

>>53000067
Many combats also end up with a decisive attack that doesn't kill, the attacker resets to base, the opponent crashes them with a withering attack and then immediately gets to go again, going for a decisive attack in turn.

>>52999015
I feel like there was already something like that in the form of 'wind-stone' that makes flying islands fly and either slowly loses potency or slowly leaks some kind of lift-gas? I can't quite remember how it worked but I remember thinking it was similar to air's version of firedust, and less boring than "everything has it's dust"

>>52999015
Please note that plants gain strength to grow from interfacing with the element of earth.

Your theorized wooddust would fall under norishment for eople and animals, poison, or fertlity or all of those

>>53000635
so more like flour for elf-bread? exalted protein bars(that as a side benefit give you an errection)?

>>53000690
>Exalted protein bars
I might use this myself
>That as a side benefit give you an erection
I know what my dragonlooded generals will get to spice their drinks up when they are on downtime.

>>53000724
>>53000690
>wood dust

>>53000635
And fire has all sorts of associations other than "is hot" but firedust uses none of them. How else do you make "element dust turns into more of element on contact with element" for plants?

>>53000920
What about: mix a firewand charge's worth of the dust with a single dose of any natural toxin to produce a barrel full of it?

>>53000920
Easy, you don't, because plant growth is pretty boring and differrent kinds of dust should have different properties.

>>52999993
Is a good example, also it adresses something rather interesting about the heritage of fire dust, which people often forget: the wyld winds that carry it.
In that vein wood dust can be strange pollen with a thick sweet scent carried by the winds. Want it to be harder to use? add refinement requirements.
Ground with certain fllowers and dried in the sun you get a powdered tea that works opposite of maiden's tea. Mixed with rapeseed and belladonna root and left to ferment for five days it becomes an antiseptic tincture or narcotic.
Add it with honey to yeast the day before you bake a loaf of bread and it becomes far more sating and norishing.
Adjust rarity of products by difficulty of procedures or rarity of dust and you have it.

So how do I use Omniscient Focus Attack to clash attacks that I'm not aware of? Do I spend 6m, 1wp to activate Fervent Blow? Do I spend 6m, 1wp to detect the attack and then spend 1m, 1wp to clash the attack? Or do I not spend anything on Omniscient Focus Attack and spend 1m, 1wp on Fervent Blow even without knowing I am being attacked?

>>52998685

I think you're completely missing the point of Exalted and need to fuck off. This isn't a game where mortals matter beyond stunt fodder and window dressing, something to save or damn at your leisure.

>>53000737

But real life already has that. It's called cocaine, and it's awesome. Creation also has cocaine, and heroin, as long as you don't mind drinking dinosaur piss.

>>53002193
Cocaine gives you ED, though.

>>53002154
and yet again you guys prove that even without any greatcurse the (unnecessarily prejudicially named) "usurpation" would have been necessary and it was certainly justified when the sids did it

>>53002744
the primordial war meanwhile is unambigously portrayed as a good thing by the vast majority despite the fact it was literally fought solely so the sun(the same jackass in who's honor human slaves were getting their beating hearts torn out on a regular basis) could sit on his ass and do crack all day rather than keep creation from falling to shit like he was made for. and then at least 70% of sentient life got genocided by solars and a good chunk of gods ended up executed for arguing that soulforging the worldbuilders who peacefully surrendered(or even the ones on their side!) would have been a dick move. and then iirc EVERY major problem the setting has was set in motion as the world began its inevitable decline into being the prehistory for the old world of darkness series.

>>53002260
but I don't /want/ ebondragon

Creation is absolutely better off without solars, the only problem is the usurpation didn't happen soon enough

>>53002744

Unfortunately, you made the mistake here of assuming that, and this is important, so I'll separate it so you can read it clearly:

You made the mistake of assuming that how the game is supposed to play, and how your characters can interact with the setting, are the same thing.

The way the game is supposed to play, mortals are always, will always, and have always been, expendable things. They are by design intent, expendable. Thats why they don't get names, access to even basic game systems like 10's counting twice, or fuck, even a full compliment of health levels, unless they're at least Heroic Mortals. They are, by all accounts, disposable in every single fucking way, and are designed as such. They're punching bags, they're scenery, they're nameless filler. And that is how the game for them, will play.

However, in terms of setting tone, they're still supposed to be people. And their fragility is supposed to emphasize how you're Big King Dick who can crush the evils of the world to protect them, or kill them all and forge their souls into a soulsteel toilet, and anything in between.

So stop being a fuckin' drooling lackwit and taking shit mechanical stats that are, again, completely on purpose because mortals aren't supposed to be much of a threat at all to your characters, and conflating that purposeful mechanical incompetence with some sort of justification for why the Solars got backstabbed due to being completely insane thanks to a death curse by Cthulhu and Friends.

>>53002900
2e, everybody. Nice.

>>53002962
>he never played 1E

Son you think 2E mortals had it bad, you never stepped into the realm of 20 dice free automatic defenses in a system where you normally had to split actions on your turn to defend, and social Charms that all read "roll 1 success, be reduced to fellating this character for eternity".

>>53002871
Creation is better off without a system where Solars get to do whatever they want with no real oversight.

>>53002744
"What're you gonna do, usurp me?"

--Statement from Solar usurped

>>53002830
>the primordial war meanwhile is unambigously portrayed as a good thing by the vast majority

Well, the Primordial War was a good thing for humanity. Less so for the losers of course, but you're supposed to be playing humans so it's going to be a good thing for you.

Also the game always presented the Primordial War was a bad thing for Mountain Folk and Dragon Kings, both of which had their civilizations implode in the aftermath of the war.

>>53003001
1e had some bad design.

2e was actually reasonably good for the time.

3e is like peak 1999 "jawsome bros" cheesy cartoon wrestling/swords mashup saturday morning cartoon and 1999 rpg mechanics.

4e will hopefully reach somewhere in the 2000+ range, and ideally post 2015 game design

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>>53007293
>1999 RPG mechanics
>the battle system is literally stolen from a 2008 videogame

So My party obtained a Gem of Luck from a Sidereal Manse. Question for people good at probabilities. How often are people making difficulty 1 rolls with a dice pool of 4-5 dice max going to botch?

>>53007293
>3e is like peak 1999 "jawsome bros" cheesy cartoon wrestling/swords mashup saturday morning cartoon and 1999 rpg mechanics.
So, can someone translate this to real English?

>>53007439

Translates to "I have no idea what the fuck I'm saying because I'm a drooling mongoloid".

>>53007439
>>53007345
When you boil his statement down it's another case of "lol rules lite = modern" which is one of the most cancerous lines of thought in tabletop gaming right now.

That and calling 2e "good" in any way.

>>53007348
someone with a dicepool of 4 will roll 0 successes ~13% of the time, so that should give you a rough idea.

>>53007481
>3e
>even in the same solar system as rules lite

>>53007885
The implication is, obviously, that >>53007293 considers 3E to be an example of "1999 rpg mechanics" specifically because it isn't rules lite.

>>53007885
What >>53007920 said. You can love rules lite as much as you want, but the "crunchy RPGs are outdated" conceit just annoys the hell out of me.

So I have an evocation for a 5 dot armor I am working on. Its basic Idea is to shoot off towards a target with a large air blast. I need to word it better. Any help would be appreciated.

Blast Off
Cost: 3m(1m); Mins: Essence 1
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Resonant; Mute
Duration: Instant
Prerequisites: None

Blast off supplements a rush action this can only be used if you can still use movement to get within close range of an opponent allowing you to flurry it with an attack without normal -3 penalties to the roll(you still suffer the -1 defense) moving towards your enemy in this round is taken in the form of a loud blast of wind putting you Above the target.

If you are making an attack against the target of the rush any disengage actions that are not resisted by magic automatically succeed any disengage actions contested by magic the user gains Essence non charm dice to their rolls.

All extra successes from this rush action give the first non ranged withering damage roll vs this enemy this turn bonus dice equal to the extra successes of the rush action.

Decisive attack Modified by this gain double 10s from attacks at 10 + initiative

Outside of combat this may be used to travel up to +1 range band more than normal with a single move action this cost 1m

Blast off is loud and noticeable Storyteller may rule stealth penalties after using it giving opponents who can hear or feel the effects +3 dice to notice you

Resonant: Attacks modified by blast off doing 5+ damage on a withering attack or 3+ damage on a decisive attack Act as if they were smashing without any of the normal cost of a smashing attack.

>>53008238

It's under-costed, and doesn't specify it's Essence requirement. The two charms that compare most directly are Leaping Tiger Attack, and Godspeed Steps. Both cost 4m, 1wp. LTA is E2, and gives free movement, but not a rush, and GS is E3. I'd be more likely to model it after LTA, as the follow-up aspect of rushing seems less thematic.

Also, just make it give Stealth penalties, not "Storytellers may rule".

>>53009003

Sorry, it does specify it's Essence level, but it should be higher.

>>52971712
>>52972426
>>52976251
>>52976233

So about this lifting a house of orphans thing - if I'm understanding correctly,

Charms allow you to do things consistently, repeatedly, and mundanely.

Stunts on the other hand, are you literally persuading the ST / the pattern spiders to let this slide due to the coolness, but that particular instance is unique, and has to be interesting. It's a do the impossible short term thing, but always extends from your existing charms slightly.

As a Solar with just strength charms I could stunt lifting an entire orphange out of the way of an avalanche without it collapsing.

However if I use that case to argue I can now rearrange city blocks by getting orphans to hop on, I'm going to get short shrift from the world or ST, unless I buy a charm to do so.

I always though the "Gritty Realism" of exalted, meant more down to the consequences of your actions - not You Have Died of Dysentery, but "You've overthrown the local king, people are scrambling for the local power vacuum, what do?"

>>53009049
>I always though the "Gritty Realism" of exalted, meant more down to the consequences of your actions - not You Have Died of Dysentery, but "You've overthrown the local king, people are scrambling for the local power vacuum, what do?"

One of the few people here who knows how Exalted is supposed to work. Shame too few people grasp a simple concept, including the former dev's.

>>53009013
>>53009003
Thanks for the notes. Putting them into effect. I disagree about the essence rating change though your point has merit. Since Gnomon the Wrackstaff allows you to freeze time and volcano cutter allow you to make an unblockable attack both at essence 1 I feel this should be a fine on the essence level for a 5 dot.

>>52987997
The thing I don't get is where the rest of the circle was during the original meeting between the PC and the snake Lunar.

The player is female right? Or just the PC.

What is the rest of the Circle's opinion on this snake-Lunar?

>>52998685
I don't know, have they finally made a DnD game where you play a viable Level 1 Peasant in the Tomb of Horrors?

>>53009195

The story itself actually didn't happen in rapid succession for good parts of it. It was stuff that happened over the course of play as they did other stuff and occasionally went back to check up on their little village. They went other places, did other things. For the player that ended up with the Lunar husbandou, this was their character's downtime pet project (once she wrangled the story out of him anyway) to spruce this place up, and it snowballed into the rest of the stuff over time.

I tend to jump big gaps of time in my games, like Exalted should. A few weeks or months can go by here or there, and indeed, did in a few cases. The time between her being kidnapped, for example, and them finding out where the fuck she had gone, because none of them really had much info gathering capability, and none of them were taking any magical shit so they didn't have access to messenger spells or the faster modes of transport, was around a year or so I think? It took them this amount of time to figure out where she was and get over there.

Players seemed interested in the whole little pet village angle, so I threw'em stuff about it over time.

>>53009105
Yeah, don't get me wrong, you CAN do a physics based superhero RPG where part of the puzzle is working out how to apply your own powers safely - Sidereals almost touch on this.

It's just a different flavour of Realism, and why once again people are using the same phrase to mean multiple different things.

Can we come up with different words for this?
Like "Physics Realism", and "Consequential Realism"

>>53009195

Oh, and shit. Both the player and the PC were female, and as far as the rest of their opinions on the Snake Lunar, it was a mix. They honestly probably could've beat her ass pretty easily if anything actually started. She had age on them, but not overall combat prowess. Plus, y'know, several-on-one when she wasn't coming here for a fight was probably never in her best interests anyway.

>>52987756
Do you think she'd eventually become Desus 2.0. then? Assuming the GC takes its toll.

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>>53009538

For added fun and dysfunctionality-And for putting the fun in dysfunctional-I actually made the husbandou's Limit something I called "Green Eyed Monster". Turbo-Jealousy, more or less. He did end up snapping a few times, obviously because her snapping and him finding out at times caused his limit to pile up.

He pretty much Bane'd a favorite NPC of hers over his knee during one of his flip outs, and nearly killed him. Pic very related.

>>53009538
No. Not even Desus can become Desus; so many writers worked to make him such a bastard that it overshadows the setting itself. It's probably for the best if you leave his one huge asshole moment as blinding Oliphem for a really petty, very easily-bypassed reason and letting other Solars have their own respective moments.

>>53009105
Your dig at the end doesn't even really follow, since the common refrain was always "in order to fight an epidemic you need doctors", and that never stopped applying.

>>53009721
This is true.

Honestly, I think he by himself kind of tainted the idea of social charms until they were essentially complete mind control, and that any seduction charms were automatically rape.

That combined with 2E's / the fanbase idea of charms being basically Apps on your Exaltation iphone, mean a PC explicitly knew when they were using a social charm / the mind control eyes.

So any attempt to play a Kirk style "love 'em and leave 'em" character meant you were playing a super rapist.

>>53009538

And fuck I realized I didn't actually answer the question. The PC isn't really too violent. The actual truth is she tries to pretend to be model waifu and resist all temptation and etc, and the GC makes her into Charlie Sheen for a bit. Then she wonders whats wrong with herself and how can she keep doing this and keeps covering shit up, which she's really damn good at because she's the social monkey and the med monkey, so all those overdoses and tyrsts and shit she can usually keep hidden.

But one or two eventually slip through the cracks and infidelities begin racking up limit on her husbandou until he explodes with jealous rage and does something motivated by that. Which is also funny, because he tries to be the model husbandou and is a very nonviolent person otherwise.

So you've got what is essentially this outer shell of what appears to be a wholesome marriage, and underneath is a sex crazy drugged up lady who keeps kicking the habit only to swing back, and her husbandou who is damn near a pacifist, going "JOHN FUCKING CENAAAA" on poor NPC's whose crime was basically getting charmed (literally and figuratively) by a Solar who can't control her urges for drugs and dick.

>>53009850

Isn't Celestial Bliss Trick in Ex3 getting shit on for the same reason? Oh god, I just remembered the Rape Ghost debacle.