>It's a "God" >Can be killed Why

>>52950504
Gods have died before.

Almost the entire nordic pantheon can confirm that.

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>>52950504
I mean, you can't kill the God (permanently), but if we're talking little "g" gods then sure I don't see the problem with it.

>Immortal
>Piece of wood can make you die

Fuck anyone who calls vampires immortal

>>52950523
Daily reminder that mythological Odin is weaker than a generic 20th level D&D priest.

>>52950504
>jesus

>>52950523
>>52950559
>>52950682
It depends on the mythology.

Nordic pantheon was weak as fuck. They're all destined to die, Odin needed to sacrifice his eye to get omniscience, if they don't eat their golden apples they start to age, Thor lost a wrestling match to Old Age, etc.

The Hindu pantheon was OP and Vishnu sweated out multiverses and hero characters could charge a blade of grass with the totality of the universe to create a universe-ending super weapon.

Japanese gods tend to not be very powerful either because "kami" refers to a mess of supernatural characters that range from spirits of tiny pebbles to spirits of mountains. You can be a "god" of a toilet.

"God" is a title like "king" and not all kings are equal.

>>52950719
Woah there buddy

Jesus was a guy but not THE guy okay

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>>52950504
Eh...

>>52950816

The Trinity mang, look it up

>>52950767
Let's not forget the Celtic gods, who are actually just humans who came to Ireland a little earlier.

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>>52950767
I think that this would make an interesting setup for a setting. Different pantheons of varying strength and origin, and the head of each is competing with the others to become the "G" God of the universe.

>>52950816
Found the jew

Because omnipotent Gods are the fanwank religion of impotent Humans.

>>52950919
Old YHWH is way too OP

>>52950504
>he thinks god is the same as God

Here, definition of god:
>(in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
Nothing says a superhuman being can't be killed.

>>52950816

Found the camelfucker

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>>52950955
To be fair, he did die, but then he rose 3 days later anyways. It's kind of hard to permanently kill an omniscient, omnipotent, infinite being unless he lets you kill him.

>>52950593
>>52950986
>>52950875
>Wood involved in death
>Came back to life
>Supernatural abilities

Okay so Jesus was a vampire

>>52950986
He didn't die, he was merely pretending

>>52950919
Play Scion and set it before or after the Titanomachy.

and then regret it immediately because Scion is a garbage fire of a system

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>>52951101
>Not actually dying

That's poor showmanship

3/5

>>52951018
>Drink my blood to become immortal

...wait a minute

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>>52950504
What a fool you are. I'm a god, how can you kill a god? What a grand and intoxicating innocents, how could you be so naive? There is no escape, no recall or intervention can work in this place. Come lay down your weapons it is not to late for my mercy.

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>>52951018
>>52951179

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>>52951189
Psssh
Nothin personnel "God"...

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>>52950504
>implying gods are defined by the fact they can't be killed
Immortal, perhaps. But not invincible.

Because historically, the concept of a "god" was not limited to beings that are absolutely immortal or even omnipotent. Gods got killed all the time in plenty of religions.

>>52950907
There is something strangely humbeling about Irish mythology.

Basically it says that the world is so perfect, it must have been made for a race of magical chosen people but clearly we are not those people, in fact we probably killed them and stole their shit.

>>52951179
>can walk on water, clearly he can hover

>Turn water to wine, perfect for seducing aristocratic virgins.

>Reanimated a corpse after being left alone with it

>No mention of mirrors in the bible.

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>>52951018

>Wood involved in death
>Came back to life
>Supernatural abilities

Wait, wait, wait.

You're getting entirely the wrong conclusion from this.

IMO, including Gods in a setting beyond some distant, unreachable force is almost never worth the effort.

>>52951179
Lol
Dracula was deliberately meant to be an evil/gay Jesus analogue. It was meant to add to the horror aspect.

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I know right

>>52952430
Isn't there a version of Dracula thats supposed to be Judas?

>>52950504
Being unabled to be killed isn't what defines a god, so...

>>52950504
I'm a god.

You haven't proved I can be killed, so this statement must be true.

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>>52951018
He was more than just a vampire.

>>52952185
>Reanimated a corpse after being left alone with it
I am mostly certain that there were a lot of people around every time Jesus resurrected someone.

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Now I want to play a character who thinks the only god worth worshipping and following is an unkillable one

And of course the way to find one is by trying to kill them all

>>52950593
It's less the wood and more the action of driving a large rod into their heart and pinning them to the ground.

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>>52950982
You want camel for fuck? I have camel for fuck. Come come my friend I have prettiest camel for fuck, only slightly used, perfect working order, make-up not included. Only 20 goats! It is a steal, my friend. All teeth included for FREE! You want camel for fuck this is the one for you very pretty camel! Gives free circumcisions too! Good deal friend, yes. Treat camel right and she never leave you.

>>52951018
You're JUST NOW realizing this? Van Helsing is disappoint.

>>52950504

Even Jesus died.

Just because they have all the powers doesn't mean they want to use them.

>>52952507
Judas or Cain are often made to be the "origin" of vampirism in settings where Christianity is a thing.

>>52952940
>killing a god's avatar is the same as killing a god
lol no

>>52950593
Immortal=/=invicible=/=invulnerable

If it lives forever all alone its immortal
If it can be hurt, but not permanantly damaged, by action time or inaction its invincible
If it exists untouched and untouchable by time, force, or anything else, for eternity. Defying the laws of nature itself, set apart from existance, then it is invulnerable.

Learn ehat you are saying before you say it, it saves brain cells for the rest of us.

>>52952131
Nah m8 the world was made for the giants then the færies/gods took it off then then the Irish came and told the færies to fuck off

-potatoanon

>>52953081
I personally put it as
Immortal: Beyond mortal. Cannot die by any mortal means or mortal magic.
Invulnerable: Without weakness. Cannot die.
Unaging: Does not age.

>>52950955
YHWH isn't too impressive by other pantheon standards unless you bring in kabbalah and Thomas Aquinas, then he's pretty OP.

>>52952368
Naw, you just need to make sure everyone understands what "god" means in universe. A Japanese mythology setting could be really cool and have a bunch of low level kami.

>>52952611
>Jesus
>mindless
Boyo, if you think those "shepherd" boyhole-loving bishops are true christians, you gotta read yourself some Augustine

>>52951121
don't worry, 2E soon and it'll probably still be trash but whatever

>>52953558
>YHWH isn't too impressive by other pantheon standards
If you read the Old Testament through a monolatrist* lens rather than a monotheist one, the Old Testament God made a habbit of destroying entire pantheons for getting up in His grill.

*this basically means that the existence of multiple deities is assumed, or at least deemed plausible, but only one is deemed worthy of worship

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>>52952611

>>52953080
>jesus is gods avatar
Fucking heresy

>>52950504
What about the word "god" implies inability to be killed?

>>52953764
>Augustine
Ew

>>52952831
Now *that* is a cool idea.

>>52952831
This is a cool idea.

>>52954772
At the same time he got beat up by Jacob even after breaking the rules of wrestling.

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>>52950816

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>>52952611
>mindless

>>52950767
>Thor lost a wrestling match to Old Age
He only went down on one knee, if you recall. That whole tale was "haha eat shit for your hubris Thor JK YOU'RE ACTUALLY FUCKING AMAZING PLZ LEAVE"

ITT: over sensitive faithfags demonstrate that we need a /rel/ containment board for the same reasons we need /pol/

>>52950682
To be fair, D&D (especially 3.5 and 5e) is so very, VERY high fantasy and high power that it makes other works with high fantasy settings look like low fantasy by comparison. Magic is so commonplace that almost everyone is guaranteed to know what it is, and a level 1 character can create infinite bolts of fire with their mind, at no cost.
You could claim that this depends on the setting, but, ultimately, the fluff is still tied to what is expressed by the mechanics. If you wanted to run a truly low fantasy (or even a slightly more mundane high fantasy setting, like LotR) you'd need to reinvent the entire magic system, as well as many of the class abilities, at which point you'd be better off just picking a different system more suited to your needs.

>>52956832
>>52950982
>>52950949
Wow, Rood

just checking in to see if using the name Jim Profit is still an autoban

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>it's a "dragon"
>doesn't have exactly four legs and two wings, no more no less
The author is wrong about the setting they created.

>>52958716
Dragons should be flying serpent

>>52950767
The Entirety of Indian Mythology has ridiculous power levels. Almost as if they're compensating for something...

>>52950875
I mean, the point was him triumphing over death for man. Thus, the role of Aslan in the Chronicles of Narnia.

>>52952831
I like that quite a bit, actually.

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>>52958716
I hope this is bait

>>52950504
>I'm ignorant about human history in general and know absoluetly nothing about gods and religion beyond muh jewish created religion that stole from plenty of other religions.

>>52957498
But/pol/ constantly leaks out of their containment board and have massively increased their off topic shitposting since the election.

>>52959072
>dragons aren't sea serpents
Fucking wingcucks!

>>52952869
kekekekekeke lol

>>52952748
Nah, they were spooks

>>52956831
Wasn't that in a dream, though? Still, it gives me a hearty kek when you realize this is what Israel refers to. The one Jewish state in the world calls itself "I wrassle God".

>>52957498
>A religious discussion? In a thread that questions what a deity even is in the first place! That hurts my feelings! We need chinkmoot to make [my favored board] a safe space!
Here's another idea for you, Chuckles: grow a pair. I don't mean this in a "kys yourself famalam" way, but if you really cannot deal with people disagreeing with your or holding opinions you don't like, it's best for yourself and everyone around you to just remove yourself from society. Go live in a shack in the woods or something.

>>52962582
He wrestled an Angel

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There's a better fit.

>>52950504
Because they created the world, but the world no longer needs them so they need to fuck off now. It's like outgrowing an ant farm.

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>>52963292
Even from a fedora tippers perspective this doesn't make any sense.
>Jesus is a deity who became flesh and conquered death, after which ascending to heaven once more
>But that's not supernatural enough, we need to invoke the undead even though undeath is something entirely different
This is on par with ledditors trying to turn news headlines into Paradox memes.

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>>52950504
Because they can do shit like this.

On the other hand, under the right circumstances, they can also take an ass whoopin'. It's not mutually exclusive depending on the setting. But if it makes you feel better, I imagine after they're taken down a peg, people cease to revere them and thus their God status is downgraded to devil or monster.

>>52950955
Israelites really went out of their way to shit on other semites, egyptians and pretty much everybody else. Sometimes I wonder if it all was out of jealousy, since while other peoples got to be awesome and civilized, jews were violent barbarians (who really wanted to be accepted and awesome, too).

>>52963388
Technically christ hasn't conquered death yet. Or did he? All I know is that he was supposed to have gone down to hades and kicked the shit out of him and taken all the souls down there. I don't know if that was a prophecy or no though

>>52963388
It's funny. Absurd premise is the joke. You're welcome, i guess.
>>52963421
He did.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+15%3A55-57&version=NLT

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>>52958716

>>52950504
Because in my setting :^) the definition of a god is that it can instantly destroy negative energy created in its vicinity and absorb the accompanying positive energy thus giving it a constantly renewing supply of magical power, but if you hit it with a sword long and hard enough it will die

>>52963421
>Technically christ hasn't conquered death yet. Or did he?
My (vague, shallow) understanding is that yes, he did. He died, went to Hell and pretty much took over, taking the keys from Satan, and then he resurrected and ascended to His Kingdom while alive, never to die again. That's what I remember from Sunday school ~25 years ago, and according to Google, that's pretty much accurate. I always did have a knack for trivia.

>>52950955
YHWH is pretty hilarious. He can do everything, yet his people just got raped endlessly.

It's like a man with a big fucking gun, and a tiny penis.

Let's simplify the issue and talk about what it means to actually 'kill' something.

Sure, you can kill a person or an animal, by which you put a stop to it's functions and reduce it from an animate independent being to something inanimate and unthinking.

That said, you can also kill an idea, or a dream, or a belief, by causing directly or indirectly the absolute failure or destruction of that concept, be it abstract or something with tangible form.

Now, since a God, or a deity rather, can be both a form and an abstract, that rather makes somewhat difficult to destroy, but that doesn't mean they can't be.

For instance, if everyone forgot how to play Poker one day far in the future, then you've effectively destroyed Poker as a concept, I don't see why this couldn't apply to something that seeks to be worshipped, since the complete absence of worship would seem tantamount to death for a deity.

Hell, the annuls of our real history or likely littered with the metaphorical corpses of forgotten gods and goddesses, it's practically assured.

>>52963476
I just figured the creator had a mean streak and ridiculously high expectations. It wasn't a question of if he could provide for his peeps or if he could kill their enemies; he proved time and again he could without effort. He set them up to fail and suffer on purpose to prove some divine point.

Like you said, he can do everything, up to and including putting his folks on the chopping block. Sometimes literally. I hardly see how that constitutes failure on his part, since that was the goal.

>>52963514
Gods needing worship to survive is my number one disliked godtrope because it makes gods look like chumps. Mortals should need gods, not the other way around

>>52950955
You say that, but he couldn't beat some nameless loser that lived in a valley somewhere because they had chariots made of iron, so ...

>>52963475
>went to Hell

might wanna check that translation again

>>52963555
Oh boy. This sounds like it's going to get awfully semantic.

>>52963544

I agree that it's an awful trope, but if a deity has no reason to do anything besides for entertainment, there would be no benevolent gods.

>>52963583
Maybe some gods are just... nice?

>>52950682
Can a lv 20 priest terra form worlds and make humans from tree branches? Can he whisper and turn the direction of all winds in nine worlds?

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>>52963593
Well, nice by their own definition, which in this case is the only one that matters. When you remove the two way street, then everything has to be on the God's terms, which I guess some might see as an unhealthy relationship? Especially when said deity starts demanding worship or tribute that they in no way need; they just want everyone to know who runs the show.

This God didn't need to make mortals, it just did it on a whim, and now it demands its creations thank it for the privilege of existence. My roof, my rules. Rule #1: Kiss my ass and tell me I'm pretty!

On the other hand, the whole Small Gods approach creates some necessity for coexistence, so the whole arrangement seems less err, tyrannical I guess.

I prefer Gods that just aren't all that benevolent.

>>52953764
Still christian.

>>52950767
>God" is a title like "king" and not all kings are equal.
FINALLY SOMEBODY GETS THAT.

Of note, this is why the Christian trinity makes sense. It's not three people who are one person but also seperate. That's both insane and unsupported by the text. They are three entities acting as one monarch. Which is supported. EloHIM is consistently used, that suffix explicitly meaning 3 or greater, and in Deutoronomy 6:4 ("Hear, O Isreal: Jehovah, our God, Jehovah is one") the word there translated 'one' holds not the idea of singularity, but rather of unity. i.e. "Unlike the pantheons you have heard of up until now, we don't have a million seperate agendas and preferences, we don't have petty in-fighting or squabbles, we always act together, with one accord, meaning that in the immediately following announcement we will provide you one whole and unified set of laws. One of us is not going to ever tell you one thing while the rest say another. There will not be an additional set of laws given by each of the other two. One unified crown, one complete law."

>>52951018
Only if Baldur is too. Same wood-based impalement death.

>He think you can't kill gods
How ELSE are you supposed to become a god if not by killing one and taking it's divinity for yourself?

>>52952430
Similar to how Lovecraft wanted to create the idea of a dark god, one that was indifferent and malevolent instead of caring and loving.

>>52952831
Very barbarian. I like it.

>>52963885
that is completely cool by me.

>>52956831
That was a message boy he sent.
Still means Jacob beat up a spirit entity. Which means his hands must have counted as magical weapons in order to do half damage.

>>52950504
Simple; there's a difference between a god and a deity.

A God (or goddess) is simply any being of sufficient power. It's a measurement, like archmage, or commander.

A deity is any being or object of worship; it may or may not have any power of its own. A spoon could be a deity if something worshiped it.

>>52963065
That really depends on which translation and interpretation you go with.
>>52962582 same here really.

But it does say inner thigh, which could be taken to mean dick. And the monolatrist interpretation makes much more sense when you consider El(another name of God) and the Elohim, among who Elv held court.

>>52963897
Have you been reading Derleth again?

>>52963421
People still die, obviously, but it has no permanent holding power anymore.

God cannot abide the presence of sin. Smite impulse is too strong, justice must be served. Death is the punishment for sin. So if you're a spiteful dick and wanna get at God, the best way to do it is infect their new adorable pet humans with sin, forcing God to have to kill them off. At best they can just seperate themselves from humanity, which will temporarily abate the need to smite, but being cut off from their source of life force will only let them live a short, temporary span, God in deep suffering stomaching their ever-increasing sinfulness all the while. And eventually he will still receive those souls back, still riddled with sin, and be forced to smite them.
But let's say they do something completely insane. They send tje souls they get back to a temporary holding pin, still seperated, then use one of themself as a sacrificial offering, personally taking the punishment for their pets' sin. Now, the sentence has been served. No double jeapordy, it's solved. Their physical bodies are still gonna die, because you can't visit Earth so they're still cut off from your life-giving essence. But when you get their souls back, and you sort through that holding pin for the ones that let themselves be cured, and now you have a bunch of clean humans you can just give new immortal bodies to! Issue solved.

>>52963693
With the right tools, he can!
He can also ressurect and perfectly heal people with a touch.

>>52959210
>Almost as if they're compensating for something...
Lack of toilets

>>52959930
It's literally just because of the Redditors. The moment 2016 /pol/ decides "hey, maybe we can influence the election", the fucking newfags with their fedoras and Guy Fawkes masks come crawling out of the woodworks screaming "ANONAMOOSE XD!". And after all was done with, they decided that 4chan was their new sekrit klub. I don't deny that /pol/ has leaked before the election, but it was never as often and never as autistic.

>>52963871
you saying christianity is actually worshipping 3 gods nigga cause I actually like that christianity has that one element of wierdness where one guy is three people but one it's like the last bit of asiatic crazy left in western christianity in short i will fight you nigga it's father son and holy spirit not father jamal and luther

>>52963885
>>52963920
>baldr was god of light and beauty

Baldr was a twilight vampire

so Loki was 100% justified

>>52963476
>>52963518
Every time something bad happens to Israel it is explicitly because God allowed it or even willed it to happen.

This is because if you actually read the bible, it's about Israel fucking up and pissing off God constantly by being assholes

Also by fucking other tribes. Sexually I mean, interbreeding

>>52964289
No. The Jews were just a piss tribe that invented a super sky dad who could beat up everyone, if he wanted.

>but why didn't YHWH help us when the assyrians/babylonians/greeks/romans/nazis kicked us in the dick?
>BECAUSE YOU DIDNT PRAY HARD ENOUGH!

>>52950907
>the Celtic gods
You mean Irish gods, by Toutanis

>>52950719
Jesus specifically came to die for our sins, though.

>>52952964
Isn't Cain everyones ancestor?
How does that work?

>>52964301
say what you will, sticking to orthodox Judaism makes a tribe harder to kill than a roach infestation. The best you can hope to do is kill a bunch and drive them out of your country for awhile.

>>52952964
Or Lilith.

>>52963476
>>52963518
His exact words both times the law was recited were "You will be entering into a contract with me. As long as you trust and follow me and these laws, you will have unmatched prosperity. If you stop, I will stop protecting and providing for you, and, in fact, will go out of my way to see destruction comes your way, be it famine or army. Do you agree?" To which they signed on the dotted line.

The fact Israel just couldn't stop worshipping idols for more than 30 years is entirely on them. The book of Judges is a depressing testament to human stupidity.

>>52964232
Its not only redditors basically anybody who goes to that board gets fucked and decide to kek all over the place like a retard

>>52964764
No, it's a depressing testament of a bunch of mongoloids sticking to idiotic laws because they kept getting fucked.

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>>52964955
God, I hate that fucking "le meem magik" bullshit. All it is is the epitome of confirmation bias.

I can't complain about all the new pepes we got out of this, though.

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>>52950504

ITT: Christfags can't understand animist and shamanistic religions because christfags are unintelligent with a lack of imagination.

>>52950504
Any sufficiently powerful entity is indistinguishable from God to a common man.

>>52953764
There was only one true christian and he die at Golgotha in year 33 A.D.

>>52965126
Shut up Martin

>>52957498
but /x/ is the religion board

>>52959824
>>52963462
Not a dragon.

>>52963583
>If people didn't need cats, there'd be no benevolent pet owners.

>>52963733
Yeah, how dare someone expect affection from their pets.

>>52964370
No. Seth is.

>>52964273
>Loki was 100% justified
go away Loki

>>52950504
Godliness has nothing to do with power. It's a quality assigned by worshipers to what they're worshiping.

Power is not related to divinity. You could present the most powerful entity in the universe but it is no more intrinsically divine than the homeless drug addict wandering your city's streets.

DnD-drones have a tendency to treat everything under the sun as divine, of course that means nothing except to those who believe in the divinity. All the time you see these threads on /tg/ where people that "morality is objective in deendeeland because gods are real." No, gods are no more real in your kitchen sink fantasyland than they are on Earth today, and just because there's some magic alien wizard who created your planet or plane or whatever does not confer divinity on him, nor even if it did, does it make his opinions intrinsically superior.

>>52969353
If dogs and cats and zoo animals understood the concept of benevolence in the way we do and questioned our relationship dynamic, they likely wouldn't consider us entirely benevolent.

Certainly we think ourselves good for uplifting Fido from the wilderness and providing for him in return for loyalty and affection on demand, but I can't help but assume I'd feel rather awkward about the arrangement. But then again, I've never been a trophy wife.

>>52964370

No? Adam and Eve had other kids, they just don't get mentioned because none of them murdered anyone

>>52969820
>>52964370
>Genesis 5:4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.

>>52969529
>The guy that created everything and governs the laws of the universe is only a """""GOD""""" because people worship him!
>The people worship him because he created everything and governs the laws of the universe.
>Just stop calling him a God and you'll realize he's not a God, just some super powerful higher existence with OPINIONS

'kay

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>>52969911
If you think that creating a universe and having total control over the laws and beings within it is what determines divinity, then you best start calling your GM god.

Fucking deendee-rones, always such limp-brained, self-loathing little pussies.

>>52969911
If Superman was real, would you worship him? Superman is far stronger then most pagan gods, so by your logic he must be one.

Is the only thing that defines a "god" is whether they claim themselves as one?

What about the Emperor of Mankind? He clearly denied being a god. Horus before his fall called the "gods" of Chaos simply extradimensional aliens. Was Horus right? If not, what made the gods of Chaos actual "gods", but the Emperor, who was arguably as strong as them, not one?

Is it inconceivable to you that you may be faced with a powerful immortal whose philosophy you think is shit? Does his philosophy stop being shit just because he's a (((god)))?

If the gods couldn't be killed.
There wouldn't be just one god.
>black guy pointing to his forehead "roll safe or smart thinking" meme jpeg, but this time a jew from 500BC

>>52969529
>>52969995
Did you ever try this one on your parents when you were 6?
>Just because you conceived me and provide for me doesn't make your opinions intrinsically superior to mine, dad!! Screw your arbitrary rules and guidance! In fact, I'm not calling you dad anymore. From now on you're just George to me.
It seems like a pointless, self aggrandizing distinction to me.

I can't even tell if this is pure pedantic nonsense on your part regarding the super speshul meaning of divinity or some rebel without a cause HFY bullshit.

>>52970009
I've decided a God is a creator and/or ruler of the known universe and the source of moral authority. In some stories, Superman could be this if he wanted, but doesn't want to, so yeah, I guess part of being a God involves telling people that is what you are. That being said, I don't think I'd worship Superman unless he coerced me because I've never been a fan.

But ultimately it doesn't matter what things like YWHW or Zeus are called so much as what they can do and how they act, yes.

>>52970210
Dude your argument doesn't even work in real fucking life. Do you agree with your dad on everything? I know I sure as hell don't.

Just because he conceived and provided for you doesn't REMOTELY justify his opinions even when we're talking about purely earthly fathers, much less heavenly ones!

>>52969995
He doesn't have total control over the laws and beings within it. It's a shared creation, and all participants agree on how things work, even if it's just "I don't agree but I don't care enough to fight about it." Any DM who doesn't understand that will see their universe crumble to dust sooner or later.

>>52950875
Matthew 26:39
"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as THOU WILT."

Jesus was not God.

>>52970293
When I was 6??? It didn't matter if I agreed when I was 6 that's the point you dipshit. And me not calling him "dad" doesn't change what he is or his claim to authority over me on its own. Likewise, not calling the super powerful creator "God" doesn't change people's relationship with him. Not to say it can't be changed, but that word alone is not as important as the context of its use.

This is so fucking dumb. Am I being rused?

>>52970210
>your dad was always and objectively correct about everything
Idiot. Just a fucking idiot you are.

>>52970298
>DM
Fucking peanut-brained deendee-rone. Your pedantry does not in any way detract from the point I was making.

>>52970210
>YWHW
Are typos blasphemy? Forgive me, O Lord.

>>52970468
Yeah, okay, you aren't being contrary and willfully obtuse, you really are just that ""God""damned stupid.

>>52970524
Your malformed desire to enslave yourself to anything bigger and stronger than you is sickening, little worm.

If Zarathustra lived at least as far back as 1200BC...
How then can Judaism be up to many thousands of years older
Why can a man find nonreligious data on Judaism?
Why is all info about the Jews from the Jews themselves?
>All I can reason and conclude, is judaism didn't really exist pre 1000BC and during that time it was Henotheistic or possibly even Polytheistic, it didn't become monotheistic until 6th or 5th century.

I'm no stormfronter, this is just today's autistic historical interest. Next week I'll wonder where the Hittites really came from.

>>52950504
Only a god should be able to kill another god.

>>52959930

>Muh /Pol/ boogeyman

>>52971254
>t. triggered /pol/tard

>>52970704
Kike here, old Hebrew writings definitely acknowledge the existence of other gods. Also, the Old Testament was compiled from earlier writings, and likely refactored to reinforce the prevailing Jewish ideology in ~600BCE.

Unfortunately, there just isn't much of any other information available, and barring some insane archeological discovery, there's unlikely to be any either. It's a fair assumption that Hebrew monotheism arose out of polytheism, but the impetus for the change has sadly been lost to time.

>>52963871
Heretic.

>>52971655
Where El came from is pretty well known (Canaanite religion) but where Yahweh came from and why he merged with El is less well known.

What some people think is that Yahweh was a local god of a city or city-state similar to how Athena was the local god Athens and that over time he merged with the head of the pantheon, El (who played a role similar to Zeus.)

Some people bring up the Documentary hypothesis here where the Jewish bible is a compendium of 4 main sources. There are multiple sources but it's not quite as neat as that.

>>52963871
That is not the Catholic church's position. The Catholic church has the position of Homoousionism where Jesus and God are of one being. A lot of babble and gibberish has been said to obfuscate the issue as a compromise between different factions even if the end result makes no sense.

>>52950504
First, we should establish exactly what we define as "god" or deity in the context of this discussion

Throughout mythology and history, we have a tremendous range of what is called a god, starting with minor spirits of the honourable dead that transcended humanity into an otherworldly being and ending with the christian god who did everything always everywhere and whose universal being allowed him to become his own son who died to lift the original sin from his creation and infuse it with his third form the holy spirit.

What all these have in common is that they assume a patron role. Humans flock to their worship, hoping it will appease the god and thusly bring them good fortune or at least avert his wroth. People have turned to animal worship when invoking a good hunt, asking for the animal to give its life in benevolence to the tribe, so in a sense "gods" have been killed on a regular basis. Celtic tribes have worshipped Cernunnos whose life ends at Samhain and who is reborn in Spring, as well as the sacred bull who was slain by Esus and later reborn from his blood regurgitated from cranes. The difference here is that gods transcend the boundaries of natural death.

Now this escape of death must have a rule, whether by miraculous spell or metaphysical circumstance. As such this ruld can be repealed, and thus the deity must remain in a state of death.

With this in mind, killing a god is impossibly difficult, but not impossible per sé. A human champion would probably have to be elevated into godhood, himself, before being able to strike down another deity permanently.

However, you should never allow your players to kill a god. At that point, you let them taste a ridiculous powerlevel that just spoils them, and probably is a sign your campaign was shit, anyway.

>opinions

>>52952611
Jesus was a lich. It's already explained.

>>52957498
>be wrong about faith
>get corrected
>"B-BUT MUH SCIENCE"
lmaoing at your life

>>52950767
Nord gods confirmed for GOAT.

None of this mary sue bullshit the others came up with

>>52972337
>However, you should never allow your players to kill a god
This is true if talking about direct combat, but if your players find a clever way to exploit a weakness to kill a god, then that's fine.

>>52973529
Loki pls go

>>52950504
>watch conan
>schwarznigger sitting with some asian
>my god is stronger than yours
thats how jihad started isnt it

>>52950504
>be this deep-cucked by the mad whispers of Abrahamic religious bullshit

>>52950719
Literally the point is that Jesus died and then demonstrated that He was sovereign even over death itself.

>>52972095
Documentary hypothesis is absolute BS. It's based on idiotic assumptions (CLEARLY one author couldn't use multiple names for God, apparently), and following its logic leads to sentences being cut in half. Not to mention it completely disregards the subtle recurring themes throughout the Torah, which strongly indicate a single author or, at the very least, a very coherent and unified group of authors.

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>>52969374
>expecting my pets to sacrifice a whole bunch of other smaller pets and kill these people and not touch their dick and remember not to eat shellfish kibble on Tuesdays and give 10 percent of kibble to other less fortunate pets and

Stop while you're behind, Mensa candidate.

>>52963871
nobody cares, kafir

>>52964273
Nevertheless, Baldr lived for revenge.

Literally but also metaphorically mythologically literally.

>>52950816
You obviously don't belong here. Go back to Egypt, you Coptic/Arian fuck.

>>52970436
Other anon seems really combative over arbitrary shit in other posts he's responding too, so yeah it's probably bait.

>>52950875
Even if he was fully god, he was still fully a man.

>>52952185
Jesus resurrected Lazarus with his voice.

>>52963475
no concept of hell until later, jesus went to tartarus (concept of death as annihilation) and banished death itself as a concept.

>>52965510
St. Dismas?

>>52964370
cain is just the ancestor of everyone interesting. Like, noah, tubelcain, and lamech

>>52950504

Because not all gods played by Greek rules

>>52950504
Because they are worshiped as such.

irl there were "god-kings"

>>52950816
Get out Jew

>>52950504

Have you tried to kill God? I'm gonna guess not, so how can you say he's unkillable?

>>52951018
i've always been of the impression jesus was more of a lich

That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.

>>52965012
/pol/ is 100% about confirmation bias, thus teh "/pol/ is always right" meme because they spam they ad-nauseam the few times they were coincidentally right and ignore and deny their many failures.

>>52971254
Half the time they don't even try to deny it and admit they're from /pol/ but justify it as the war against degeneracy.

It's funnysad that you're such self-deluded hypocrites that you obliviously use exactly the same tactics and bullshit that you always accuse the evil jewish liberal marxist conspiracy of.

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>>52950906
>>52950949
>>52950982
>>52956832
>>52976084
>>52977101
Sometimes, you guys are alright.

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>>52978437
>funnysad

>>52978681
Deus Vult

>>52978681
>Christcucks

Lmao

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>>52978995

>>52972154
You forget the Nicean Conference involved a two day argument involving the various Christian leaders at the time arguing over this very point. The choice for the Trinity to be embodied in one "everywhere and nowhere" entity was a political one.

The Christians were trying to consolidate against the paganistic religions and the best way to do this was to avoid any sort of pantheon or reference to multiple entities.

You have to remember the Church was entirely without any divine guidance at this point, so they had no clue what was actually going on. Several Protestant religions were formed because of this point, and one of the fastest growing religions in the world now (Mormonism) is established almost solely on this premise.

>>52978681
>>52979001
Deus Vult
Goddamn is Christ-Chan adorable.

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>>52979001
I love that other cheek bbgirl

>>52978681
Deus Vult. If a winner there must be, let it be the one I'm most familiar with.

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>>52950504
>every god is immortal
no.
>gods are unkillable
then what if a more powerful god tries to kill a lesser god? does lesser = greater?

Nothing is beyond death. Nothing.

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>>52950504
>implying god is alive

>>52963871
Go fuck off to your Gnostic chuck shack.

>>52950593
Wooden stake > any other stake

Purely because of the more natural state. It's not "lel wood counters immortality". It's "power of pure nature conquers the unnatural."

Get informed, anon. You're making yourself look bad.

>>52950504
Because they can only be killed by Godslayers, duh.

>>52964301
>>52965004
Jesus Christ. Could you be missing the point of the conversation any harder?

>>52981128
Even death may die.

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>>52950504

Because being a deity doesn't necessarily require invulnerability. There are gods that range from powerful but killable beings with small cult worshippers, to multi-dimensional entities that can cross through to other universes.

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>>52952869

>>52956831
I read that scripture and i can just feel the ball joint pop right out, eeeeeugh

>>52972154
Hypostatic Union*

Not that anon but sorry i couldnt stop myself

>>52950682
And a 9th level cleric can do everything Jesus did.

>>52952131
Also the original patriarch of Ireland just saying fuck it all I'm going to be a salmon.

Also going to study abroad and coming back as a godly being.

Fuck it all lets go on a boat trip away from here.

>>52978681
Deus Vult

>>52973298
Nah mate. Clearly a vampire.

The entire Catholic and Orthodox churches at least are his children. When they nailed him up to die the sky darkened and only brightened after his death. Despite being beaten and nailed to a cross it took a roman soldier stabbing him in the heart to kill him. The rock over the tomb was too heavy for a single mortal man to move and it was opened from the inside. Made a covenant with his own blood. Did you ever wonder about the Blood of Christ?

David was a descendent of Cain and Jesus was a descendent of David.

t.Leftlegger

>>52978681
Deus Vult

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>this thread

>>52952831
the knights belligerent
>LET US CUT GOD TO SEE IF HE BLEEDS
>REACH HEAVEN THROUGH VIOLENCE

>>52950504
What makes you even think that gods should be unkillable in the first place?

>>52978681

DEUS VULT DEUS VULT DEUS VULT DEUS VULT DEUS VULT DEUS VULT DEUS VULT DEUS VULT DEUS VULT DEUS VULT

>>52953764
>St. Augustine
Ale, and whores!

>>52978681
DESU VULT

DEUS VULT

>>52978681
Deus Vult

>>52950504
>his gods can't die
Man, that must suck immensely.

>>52963871
I've started reading the Hebrew Bible with the mindset that it's "lore", and I love shit like this.

That's super autistic when I say it out loud.

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>>52978681
DEUS VULT!

>>52963871
literally heresy

>>52950767
The Norse pantheon wasn't really weak, even though they could all be killed when it was their destiny to be killed. That's a huge theme in the mythology, that there are things, destiny specifically, which not even the gods can do anything about.

That said, the story about Thor which you refer to was actually about how badass he was. He and his companions seemingly lost all the challenges and then it's revealed that none of them were what they seemed. They still lost, but their actual feats - lifting the Midgard serpent out of the sea, drinking the ocean, wrestling with old age, and outrunning fire - were still greater than the giants thought possible, even by gods. Again the theme is that there are things not even the gods can do, but their still the greatest beings that exist in the world.

On the Japanese pantheon, part of the problem there is that pretty much all South East Asian religions are highly syncretic. That is, they're highly flexible and tend to borrow traditions, practices, and even gods rather freely from other religions as practitioners come in contact with them, and incorporate them into their already existing belief system. So it's not just that Shintoism is has kami of every concept imaginable, but also that as tales of foreign gods reached Japan those were also made a part of the religion. Fujin, for example, is clearly the Greek god Boreas, the tales of whom travelled from the Indo-Greek kingdom across Asia and to Japan.

>>52950955
No, Brahma is OP. IIRC he has a thousand heads and arms and they all act independently but in perfect unison to animate the universe or something like that.

>>52991444
So did the Japanese rip the story of Izanagi going to the after life to retrieve Izanami from the greeks (Orpheus) or did they come up with it independently or what?

>>52950504
they are more like archmages or "godkings"

>>52992686
basically every single culture ever has a 'goes into underworld to retrieve dead person' myth

Also what history books have you been reading where the Greeks and the Japanese had any interaction

>>52963871
>Of note, this is why the Christian trinity makes sense
lol it's a and I quote "Divine Mystery", it's literally LITERALLY not supposed to "make sense" you idiot

>>52992727
Me? Reading works that aren't fanfics? I wish. You want this guy >>52991444

>>52982536
>only slightly used

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>>52951179
>>52951018
he makes a good point

>>52978681
DEUS VULT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdhF4O54YjU

>>52950767
tfw vietnam and the non-muslim philippines' gods are straight out of a DND campaign

vietnam's first king is when a fairy fucked a dragon

tfw no one cares about korea's mythology enough

>>52958038
>To be fair, D&D (especially 3.5 and 5e) is so very, VERY high fantasy and high power that it makes other works with high fantasy settings look like low fantasy by comparison
Exalted disagrees.

>>52984966
>pikachu holding a picture of arceus

every time

>>52950504
The etymology of "god" either means something like "one that is invoked" "one to whom sacrifices are made" or "one to whom libations are made". Nothing about it assumes complete immortality, and the Norse gods for instance had as one of their most notable stories the story of how the gods will die and their time will come to an end. I see no contradiction.

>>52968690
Your modern nerd dragon definitions are shit, no one takes them seriously, classical art disagrees with you, and Hollywood routinely ignores your complaints about what a "true" dragon is. But if you derive some joy from telling people they're wrong on the internet, you can keep insisting on a "fact" no one cares about.

>>52952831
It's a rad idea, but...how will it work.

>I stabbed you, and I didn't kill you! You are worthy of worship! So uh, are we cool despite me slaughtering tons of your followers and minions in order to get to this point?
>Yeh I guess we cool

>>52978681
DEUS VULT

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>>52950767
>You can be a "god" of a toilet.

And because it's Japan you can be a sexy eight year old girl at the same time too!

>>52996780
"Kami" means spirit, not god. POwerful, but totally diifferant context than what americans mean when they say god.

>>52976584
"Sons of cain" means sinners, not direct descendants

>>52957426
That story stated the giants were fucking terrified of how well Thor did in their bullshit cheat tests, so yeah.

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>>52963871

>>52992727
The Greeks and the Japanese didn't have direct contact. However, Greek culture had a huge influence on Asian culture through the Indian provinces conquered by Alexander and which survived as the Indo-Greek kingdom long after his death.

The Greeks were, for example, the first people to make realistic portraits of the Buddha and often depicted him being protected by Hercules. An image which travelled across Asia and survives in Japan as the Nio.

>>52950919
Play Dominion 4.

It's a grand strategy game about demigods leading historical/mythological factions in a war to become the new God of the universe.
You set up your own demigod for each game using a point buy system, so you could be Odin/Thor/Loki/Horus/Zeus/Ares/The divine Emperor/a bazillion more, or a really old dragon, or a dwarven smith so good at smithing he has a chance at godhood, or a literal fountain of blood which possesses a slave each year to act as oracle, or a tree.
Examples of factions include
Rome that tried to resurrect their not!Jesus, but fucked up and got cursed so all living being in there realm die and rise as undead legions.
Aztecs, where you sacrifice people to summon blood demons and buff your were-jaguar jaguar warriors and baby eating shadow vampires.
literally the deep ones who try to ascend mini-Cthulhu to godhood, whose power drives everyone in ther area of influence slowly insane
Jewish man-eating giants
Norse Elves (who are also gigantic) who are all cloaked in glamour spells of illusion
The spanish Inquisition turned up to eleven, supported by basic troop who are all clad in plate and wield FUCKING ZWEIHANDERS and literal paladins
Magic-Hating Germans who are master smiths and build angel-like but non-magical constructs
Arthurian Britain, except you have a ruling class of elves of avalon that act as your mages.

>>52971655

Impetus for the change seems to be post-Persian diaspora. You know. The place that followed Avestan teachings (aka Zoroastrian).

>>52975845

Yeah, honestly, YHWH and El being the same being and/or two beings conflated matches the same level of confusion we have with, say, Zeus when we look deep enough (Zeus being basically the early Greek equivalent to Theos or Deus).

>>52976385

Sheol as a concept is as old as the Psalms. "God is the God of the living, not the dead."

Your entire basis is false.

>>52976084

>being this wrong about miaphysites

>>52990752

Hahahaha.

I get it mang. Once I started reading it in the same fashion as, say, the Kalevala, or any other collection of myth, it makes a lot of sense.

>>52995026

Exalted also has a very Shinto-like system of deities.

>>52997071

It's entirely likely that, in 7 generations, a descendant of Cain bred with a descendant of Seth to produce, eventually, Noah.

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>>52950504
>Why call them gods then?

To make them a target for everyone to aim and fire at.

A good God is a dead one.

>>52992686
Possibly.

>>52952507
Dracula 2000.

My scenario's gods don't perceive the world in terms we would understand, instead they see only the fabric of reality as just that: A golden tapestry they can stitch, cut, and weave as they wish, but to what end? To that end, they bestow their influence upon what you might call a paladin, really just a wizard that asks for power in exchange for accomplishing that god's goals, furthering his agenda. The longer one does this the more influence that god exerts over them until it can manifest itself in physical form through this person. They are still using a physical human vessel, although it now possesses the will, knowledge, and mana resources of a deity. So it can summon tidal waves at will, hurricanes with a thought, and arm or armor itself as it sees fit, but it now perceives the chess board from the pawn's point of view, and it is no longer infallible. If that human dies, the link is cut, and it has to cultivate a new connection before it can manifest again.

>>52978681
Deus Vult

>>52998200
What about just modifying it to make it look the greek's. Like adding the eating food bit.

>>52957498
Don't you have a Rick and Morty episode to watch and comment on reddit?

>>52995026
>Anon A: a person with a billion dollars is pretty rich
>Anon B: NUH UH, THERE'S A TRILLIONAIRE OUT THERE, THAT MEANS THE BILLIONAIRE IS POOR!

>>52970363
Depends on what part of Christianity you subscribe to, Anon. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are often considered the same.

>>52950504
you realize most of our earliest mythologies world wide include stories of dead gods, right? It's the jews and subsequently christians and muslims that get all marysue about it with the whole, "nuh UH ours is the only god and it knows and can do everything, except for all the things it doesn't doe because we weren't smart enough to think of ways or excuses for that, HE WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS ours is the best ORIGIANL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL"

>>52978681
So exactly when will this 'next holy war' be then? And how precisely will Islam be destroyed?

>>52979001
Really fucking doubt that, given I'm a spirit-calling, spell-casting polytheist who rejects the idea of omnipotence.

Last I checked, the Good Book called for people like me to be stoned/burned.

>>52963934
Jacob vs Samson would be the biblical title match to end them all.

>willing but not able to prevent evil
>able but not willing to prevent evil
Why call them god then?

>>52951101
>god's a troll
It all makes sense now, especially the platypuses.

>>52952430
>evil/gay Jesus
Wasn't the original Jesus gay though? Spent all that time hanging around with dudes on boats (gay), never had a girlfriend even though he made it to like 30 (gay), said all that shit about love and peace and forgiveness and that (gay). Seems kind of redundant.

>>52952869
Aw I thought you were going to post a picture of Felicia Day.

>>52953764
>they're not TRUE Christians

>>52957498
Why don't you directly respond to the god bothered who've left you so bootyblasted rather then resorting to this passive-aggressive bullshit? Can you really not confront people from behind a computer screen even?

>>52965012
>God, I hate that fucking "le meem magik" bullshit. All it is is the epitome of confirmation bias.
I don't think it's meant entirely seriously, calm down.

>>52959210
POO IN LOO

Read Primal Order and get back to me on that mate

>>52970210
The reason you listen to your parents is because they're significantly older and know far more about the world you dumb fuck, your brain doesn't even finish physically developing until your 20s. What a terrible comparison.

>>52959930
Or maybe the political climate is changing and that's the first sign you're noticing?

>>52971438
You don't have to be one of those to spot an obvious conspiracy theory.

>no it's not that people disagree with me, it's those damned polacks/jews trying to subvert this board! Get out normies REEEEEEE!

>>52971655
>It's a fair assumption that Hebrew monotheism arose out of polytheism, but the impetus for the change has sadly been lost to time.
Well just by going off racism perhaps they were trying to save money? Less gods = less statues = more shekels for other things.

>>52978437
>Half the time they don't even try to deny it and admit they're from /pol/ but justify it as the war against degeneracy.
And the other half you just assume are from /pol/ because you can't mentally handle the idea of people having different opinions to you without it being part of some malicious conspiracy.

>It's funnysad that you're such self-deluded hypocrites that you obliviously use exactly the same tactics and bullshit that you always accuse the evil jewish liberal marxist conspiracy of.
It's funnysad you can't see how much you sound like them.

>>53002855
That's not?

>>52971655
>It's a fair assumption that Hebrew monotheism arose out of polytheism, but the impetus for the change has sadly been lost to time

Occam's razor here - Even in polytheist cultures there can be observed groups dedicated to a single god to the neglect of others in the pantheon, probably just a case of this sort of cult that lasted long enough to become it's own thing.