What alignment is Jean-Luc Picard? Amateurs doing guesswork

File: 2617726857.jpg (102KB, 759x600px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 759x600px

>>52942957

>>52942957
Well he surely isn't lawful, fucker violated the Prime directive 9 times.

He is certainly utilitarian, not deontological.
So my guess is he is just good.

>>52942957
I'd say somewhere between LN and LG. He's definitely a by-the-book kinda guy, very much adhering to the established way of things. He would like to be Good, and I believe is an honestly compassionate person. However, he holds long-lasting order above momentary compassion. You're call on whether you'd say that's LG or LN.

I swear Picard violated the First Directive more times than Kirk.

>>52942957
True Awesome

Neutral Good.

Always tries to do the good thing, but will break the law when it is necessary.

>>52943155
at least he didnt violate it for the sake of getting his dick wet. he had valid reasons to do so.

Lawful Good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQP-OgZU8Kk

Janeway is...

>>52943300
Chaotic Evil.

>>52943305

That's a bit harsh mate. Chaotic Neutral maybe, she still upheld some morals. Sort of.

Would Sisko be Neutral Awesome?

>>52943359
Shitsko? Neutral Retarded

>>52943255

Meanwhile, Riker got more alien girls than Kirk.

I don't understand why people like Sisko but hate Janeway.

>>52943300

Space Super Terrorist Janeway.

>>52943325
She is Neutral Evil at best.

>>52942957
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth or historical truth or personal truth! It is the guiding principle on which Starfleet is based. And if you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth... you don't deserve to wear that uniform!"

I'd say he's wherever truth is on the alignment chart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rYhRqf757I

>>52943238
This is the correct answer. Anyone who has watched all of TNG would know this is the correct answer.

File: 1376258229376.gif (479KB, 335x335px) Image search: [Google]

479KB, 335x335px

>>52943300
Chaotic inconsistent

>>52943255
>at least he didnt violate it for the sake of getting his dick wet

People make that joke, but the reality is Kirk would violate starfleet regulations generally because not doing so would be the morally wrong thing to do.

File: yaranaika.gif (883KB, 500x223px) Image search: [Google]

883KB, 500x223px

>>52942957
Neutral good
Far too pragmatic to be lawful

>>52943626
In contrast to Picard who let a whole world die when he could have done something because muh prime directive.

File: That's some seriously Ferengi shit you got yourself into.jpg (45KB, 631x491px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 631x491px

>>52943359
Sisko is just
..different

>>52943296
Sounds pretty Neutral Good to me. Not only does he say he's willing to make exceptions and violate the laws that he has sworn to uphold if it's the right thing to do, he's also trying to convince someone else to do the same.

Kirk is Chaotic Good, right? He always did what he believed what was the right thing, but he acted like a wild west sheriff rather than a soldier.

>>52943682
Neutral Good. He followed the rules as best he could and he often wouldn't break them, just bend them enough to get shit done.

With the exception of the dude that killed his son, that was personal.

File: Star Trek Alignments.jpg (384KB, 2250x1800px) Image search: [Google]

384KB, 2250x1800px

>>52942957

>>52943578
>TNG
>NG
whoa

>>52943472

Your reasoning sir?

>>52943736

That's a damn misrepresentation of Janeway and we all know it. Fucks sake she wasn't that bad.

>>52943300

A Coffee addict.

>>52943785
She gave WMDs to the Borg.

Here's my take on every captain:

Kirk: Neutral Good.
Reason: He was the balance between Spock's logic and McCoy's emotionality. All three of them definitely had a 'good' leaning, but Spock tended more towards LG/LN, whereas McCoy was always CG.
Exceptions: none that come to mind.

Picard: LG.
Reason: Picard knew the rules were there for a good reason. And while he sometimes broke the letter of the rules, it was always to preserve the SPIRIT of the rules.
Exceptions: movie Picard is pretty CG. The writing is, well, erratic and off-key.

Sisko: Starting off TN with good and lawful tendencies, ending LN after jumping through so many of them.
Reasons: Kirk and Picard, even when they go through trauma, still remain mostly unchanged. Sisko does not. He starts off dealing with the trauma of Wolf 359, is helped to deal with it by the Prophets, and becomes a religious figure. Then he becomes a central figure in a major interstellar war, forced to betray his principles to prevent a greater evil from happening. We finally see what happens to a dedicated starfleet officer when survival, not just of self, but of his entire way of life is on the line.
Exceptions: none really. His is a logical progression through everything.

Janeway: Chaotic Neutral
Reason: It's really a problem of poor and inconsistent characterization. The actress ended up saying that she played Janeway as bipolar because of everything else. One can, however, rationalize this as thus: she broke down under a truly hopeless situation, and clutched at any straw she could. She really needed anyone else to take her place.
Exceptions: Her writing is essentially all exceptions, thus the CN.

Archer on next post.

>>52943923


Archer: Chaotic Good to start, heading towards Neutral Good by the end.
Reason: In every well written story, he basically was chafing under rules he didn't even understand, let alone agree with, usually of some alien race. With the exception of the 'prescient prime directive' episodes, which were just crappy writing, you had someone who had been chafing under the rules of the Vulcans, and then eventually finding reasons for some of them, and his own set of rules for the rest.

File: 1423986158778.gif (325KB, 157x178px) Image search: [Google]

325KB, 157x178px

why the fuck does everyone in this thread hate Janeway

>>52944302
Because it's popular to do so.

Just like that fucking pile of shit Majora's Mask, retarded contrarians started pretending that they used to like DS9 and didn't like Voyager sometime around 2009.

>>52944302
She was a poorly written and inconsistent character. Either that or a really well written example of someone losing it.

>>52943911

Actually she used WMDs herself in a joint mission with the Borg against a threat hell bent on eradicating all life in the known universe and then prevented the Borg from obtaining those weapons.

>>52943774
She's a selfish cunt who fucks everyone else over when it will benefit her in the slightest manner.

>>52942957
(Good) Lawful Neutral, but started out as Chaotic Good and changed his priorities when he had to replace his heart.

>>52943155
Picard had four more seasons worth of episodes than Kirk.

>>52942957
Extremely Lawful Good. He does violate the prime from time to time, but always with the intention of good and the best reasoning.

>>52943736
>>52943785
>>52943911
>>52944495
The actress HERSELF said that the way she was able to play jane way with how awefully she was written was by imagining her to be a schitzophrenic

>>52944627
Which is completely contrary to her bullshit about how she was a role model to women and girls up until 7of9 ruined everything.

So in other words she's doing damage control because she did a bad job.

>>52943005
Lmao they SURE follow the prime directive in TNG.

>>52943005

The prime directive REQUIRES them to help if you ask. Given that its not for a evil cause like war crimes or drug running or helping a slaver or some shit.

>>52943238
>>52943578
Thirded.

>>52943637
Confirmed.

>>52944353
Fuck you. Majora's Mask has been amazing since the day it was released.

>>52943736
shoehorned, like all alignment matrices

Dude is definitely not LG. Tapestry alone proves that. LG Picard is the one who didn't get stabbed through the heart. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say he's actually chaotic good. But he's the rare CG character who works to hide that shit. It only comes out when shit hits the fan (like the entire federation heirarchy suddenly acting weird.) At times like those he drops the act and starts doing whatever the fuck he feels is the right thing to do.

Show Picard is Neutral Good

Bloodthirsty movie Picard is Neutral Evil.

>>52945267
>tiny repeat shit and do errands game
I can tell you're really smart

>>52945308
I dunno. Chaotic Good, to me implies more than a willingness to break or ignore rules when required, but a general dislike/disrespect for rules and authority in principle.

>>52944302
I personally love Janeway. She's my favourite Star Trek villain.

Lawful good, with an emphasis towards law rather than good.

>>52942957
You're going to seem inconsistencies of character in any episodic television show with scripts from a bunch of different writers, so it's pretty easy to come up with counter-examples, but on the whole, I think think he's clearly Lawful Good.

>>52943923
>>52943935
Well put. As far as Janeway goes, however, I'd just say that the show, itself, was inconsistent from episode to episode. The crew should've been more freaked out by her personality shifts otherwise. So Janeway is very difficult to pigeonhole because it matters which Janeway you're talking about.

As for Archer, when things were getting desperate, I think he was threatening to move from Good to Neutral.

>>52945691

I would agree with both critiques.

>>52943238

All other answers are incorrect.

>>52942957
Neutral Evil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtmbzJNPsaQ

>>52943238

Hear hear.

>>52944353
>fucking pile of shit Majora's Mask
It was great. I get you didn't like it.

>pretending that they used to like DS9
I loved it.

>pretending that they didn't like Voyager
The Doctor was great.
The writing was often utter shit.
Undeniably the worst series.
Damn right I still liked it.

All that said,

>>52944302
>why the fuck does everyone in this thread hate Janeway
>Because it's popular to do so.
Mostly this.

>>52944444
>She was a poorly written and inconsistent character.
Quinton here is absolutely correct.
In many episodes, she was fine in that episode.
But across the series, she was erratic.

I remember reading that Kate Mulgrew eventually just began viewing the character as if she were suffering a mental or emotional issue such as schizophrenia, but I can't find any evidence of it.

The best example of this is to contrast Picard's recovery from becoming borg versus Janeway's, where she was callously ripping out borg eyesockets without blinking the next episode.

>>52945308
>At times like those he drops the act and starts doing whatever the fuck he feels is the right thing to do.
Well written LG characters will do that, though. If the current Law is an obvious detriment to Good, then they will try to replace it with one that is.

>>52944495
8472 said that it was going to purge the galaxy. And they were killing the Borg. They never actually targeted Voyager until after it was infected by the Borg with Janeway's permission. A galaxy purged of the Borg sound pretty fucking sweet to me.

And it's not like she had the WMD data as a reserve option to barter with if she next encountered a cube. The moment they had a prototype she ordered a course change "directly for the nearest cube". She actively sought out the Borg with the intention of giving them new weapons in a war she knew jack shit about.

>>52943652
He nearly did it twice but then had an attack of the feels and was swayed by emotion.

Not that I'm saying he was wrong to help the people of the long fingered girl. I'm saying he was hideously inconsistent and should have tried to save at least some of the people Worf's brother saved.

But then by TNG the Prime Directive had changed from a policy to deter imperialism to an excuse for moral cowardice based on notions of a divinely ordained Cosmic Plan.

It's like how it's perfectly acceptable to kick a bunch of Native Americans off of their colony world to appease a beaten fascist aggressor but relocating a commune of 200 luddites for the fountain of eternal youth and health is reprehensible.

Giant space amoeba that drains all life from worlds is perfectly acceptable to throw anti-matter at for the sake of billions of lives it will take. Killing the Crystalline entity was for some reason bad

File: spökö.gif (699KB, 248x193px) Image search: [Google]

699KB, 248x193px

>>52943923
>Picard: LG.
>And while he sometimes broke the letter of the rules, it was always to preserve the SPIRIT of the rules.
And priorizing the spirit behind the rules over the actual rules is exactly what makes him neutral, not lawful. Lawfuls don't bend the rules based on the situation. If the rules are limiting them from doing what they think is right they try to have the rules lawfully altered to better fullfil their purpose.

>>52943652
The prime directive will save us from White Men's burden, white guilt and paying reparations. I will defend the prime directive if we ever get to space.

>>52946036
I'd disagree, alignment is a general tendency rather than 100% all the time.
Picard leans towards following the rules, he exalts the concept of benevolent tradition and making a structure that benefits all within it, see his 'We're going to decide here today if these people are human and that choice will define who we are' speech for evidence of that.
NG doesn't care for the law either way.
LG tries to create laws that benefit all.
Picard does the latter.

>>52944740
>finding loopholes is breaking the prime directive.

>we cannot stop you from keeping this planet addicted to your space heroin
>but we also can't fix their freighters, allowing them to continue to transport it back to their planet

>>52944766
WRONG

>>52946036
Lawful Good always prioritizes good over lawful when they conflict. They are just of the mindset that law and order are the most effective ways to promote good. Neutral good does not have such faith in the law to begin with.

>>52943736
>Picard
LG or NG, so okay.
>Kirk
NG of CG, so fine.
>McCoy
Anything but NG is wrong. But that's my opinion.
>Spock
'Eh, sure.
>The Sisko
Let's criminals go free, poisons an entire planet, damns a Romulan crew for the greater good, takes sides with the Profits and Bajorans. There's shoehorning like an anon mentioned, and then there's calling the kettle white.
>Archer
Uhhhh, never really chaotic really. LN probably, with a bit of Neutral Sisko under pressure.
>Khan
Depends on whether you think his personal code of I'm Better Than You So I Do What I Want qualifies as "law".
>Garruk
Best example on this chart.
>Janeway
Meme harder.

>>52944302
Voyager is easily the most hated/disliked out of the newer startreks. The only ones that compete for that hate is the one prequel with Archer, the new movies, and perhaps some of the old movies.

>>52942957
Lawful Good of course

>>52944302
Having only recently watched Voyager, she comes off as a neurotic hardass at times, and she's more often outright wrong in her decisions than Picard or Kirk were. I don't mind it so much,; gives her her own flavor for better or worse.

>>52944444
I honestly think it's the latter. She has these moments of excessive irrationality in the face of adversity and reacts unusually poorly to others going against her wishes. Considering Voyager's situation and how she assumes all the burden on herself, and how she strains herself attempting to stay on the moral high ground when faced with muddy dilemmas, she may have actually been having a gradual mental breakdown.