Duel of the Fates Edition >Rules and such. Use Readium o

>>52912521
First for our glorious new edition, making dreads viable again

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>>52912521

FOR NURGLE

>>52912603
Dreads are always viable as a group of gun platforms.

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>>52912521
Nth for lasguns ap +1

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Prepping for Death Guard as we speak.

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>>52912758
Same senpai

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>>52912521
xth for Best Legion!

Also how long do I have before I need to replace my 48 Berserks with Nuzerkers?

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>>52912758

>>52912758
Holy fuck thin
You're worse than that guard fag

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My 6 dreadnought list will finally become relevant

>>52912871
>Only T7
>Eldar win AGAIN

>>52912871
relatively new player here, can anyone explain what the did that buffs dreads so much? is it just the 8 wounds?

>>52912871
Until it gets psychic shrieked off the table.

>>52912892
It's because they no longer have to deal with being a vehicle and getting popped.

>>52912892
>Can't be instantly removed by a lascannon

>>52912892
It's the fact one stray lascannon from a heavy weapons team can't just blow it apart first turn.

>>52912892
Dreads used to suck because they were vehicles who got immobilized or blown up easily. Now they are monstrous creatures who will probably go down to multiwounding shots and still suck.

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Fur Da Empera!

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Ork racing game when?

>>52912932
Isn't that gorkamorka?

>They keep showing Angelis on maps
>We will still never return

>>52912944
I meant vidya.
Streum On wanted to make one after EYE 2, but after their wee problems with Deathwing, I'm not even sure EYE will ever come out to start with. Maybe the console launch will help them. They have released a beta patch for random missions on PC.

>>52912911
>>52912918

Lascannon heavy weapons team will still demolish any multiwound target. Including that dread.

But hey on the brightside, marines get a 6+ armor save against it. Even more if they are in cover.

>>52912871
>tactical with lascanon and grab
>las and grab strip 7 wounds
>dies to bolters
The status quo is maintained

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>>52912871

right there with you bro, cept I got 9

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>>52912991
Forgot image like a dumbass

>>52912975
Now I want an Ork GTA.

>>52912997
I have 11 but too many are Forgeworld
And past 6 it just gets impractical

>>52912991
>Lascannon heavy weapons team will still demolish any multiwound target. Including that dread.
Yeah, but a sole lascannon can't kill it outright because they only do D6 damage, and we don't know what the reduced efficiency chart for vehicles looks like yet.

If you want to reliably kill multiple vehicles completely in single salvos it will require you to take more lascannons, which limits your ability to deal with chaff.

So, from the looks of things, high power weapons get better against vehicles (and other big things), medium power ones get worse (but probably better against marines, due to middling AP actually achieving something now).

>Because tankbustas were just too powerful

Also, no keywords on weapon profiles.

I'm wondering if there are some wound values which are going to work out better than a simple analysis would suggest... if most multi-wound weapons do D6, then there are likely to be points where one extra wound either makes fuck all difference or quite a big one. Like, anything that kills a 15 wound model probably kills a 16 wound one as well, but 14 wounds is much more vulnerable because it's statistically more likely to die to four shots instead of 5? Probably not a huge issue with anything except super-heavies, but I can see that the SM dread is nicely positioned at the point where it is just about able to survive three average lascannon hits.

Is it frowned upon to work on FW models in a GW shop?

>>52913033
Nope

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>>52913022
nobody cares but you. There's a black dude on the stock photo. Get over it.

>>52913044
Oh thank god. I'm hoping to get some help with assembly. The resin is so intimidating.

>>52913044
Not generally, but I've had at least one blackshirt getting autistic over people using models that are not physically sold in the store or in the store terminal, including forgeworld models

>>52913033
The question is, why would it?

>>52913033

>asking us instead of your local GW manager

Really activates your AI net processes

>>52913062
Just remember to be careful and bring a pot of green stuff because FW models never fit properly

>>52913063
I'd literally call GW customer service in front of a red/blackshirt that had probelms with FW or OOP models

>>52913083
Your "fun" is detrimental to mitteraly everyone who isn't from /pol/ or a shutposter. I do believe anon is justified in telling you to fuck off.

Made me reply, cunt. Last (You) you're getting from me.

>>52913072
>Be a GW manager
>You will get shitcanned guaranteed if you dont meet sales expectations
>Guy comes into store and wants to play/build models that don't contribute to you still having a job next month
>"Put away that resin."

Is there any indication that vehicles will even have reduced stats as they take damage?

All the AoS stuff that does that has asterisks on their statline for the affected characteristics, but the dread doesn't have any.

Also, since everything has the same stats, will all vehicles be able to fight in melee? Kind of nonsensical that a buggy with a couple of orks hanging off it can't do shit in close combat at the moment. Also, might make grabba klaws and wreckin balls useful.

>>52913103
>being shit at your job

>>52913111
>Is there any indication that vehicles will even have reduced stats as they take damage?
They said it in live FAQ.

>>52913023

Despite their Templar scheme I was running them using Champions of Fenris, 1 HQ and 8 Elites.


Worked Great

I always wondered, why is Forge World a semi-separate entity from GW? Why doesn't the main GW store page just have a "giant resin models" section?

>>52913118
Can confirm, stats will reduce down to a min of 1.

>>52913118
I'm not saying it's good, I'm just explaining the reasoning behind it.

If you tell people "sell x amount of things or hit the road", it's only reasonable that some will be hostile to things that don't contribute to their sales.

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So the flamer automatically hits 6 times?

>>52913143

Well, the prices might give people a second thought about starting in the hobby.

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>>52913101
I'm the anon who told him to fuck off, as you said so elegantly. I'm glad there are still anons with a sound mind around here.

>>52913031
They did say that damage tables will still be a thing, so probably.

>>52913168
auto hits 1 to 6 times

>>52913168
Wait nevermind, I'm retarded.

>>52913143
Because FW is allowed to act independently to a greater degree and is generally aimed at neckbeards, whereas the normal line is simple and accessible by comparison. Like how Black Library is the one that does books, rather than "GW"

>>52913168
I think its the target plus D6.

>>52913168
d6 times yes

>>52913168
It's automatically hits d6 times.

>>52913168
Yes. hits will be how many models it can hit (in the case of a single dude, how many times they gets slapped). Damage is how many wounds each shot shaves off per hit.

Massed flamers can be an effective tactic against monstrous creatures now.

>>52913168
autohits d6 hits.

Any speculation on infantry guns? Will pulse rifles be S5 AP 0? Will hotshot lasguns be S3 AP -2?

>>52913168
Sure, if you rolled a six

>>52913134
Oh please, stfu you dumb ass. go back to /pol/ if you want to be a fucking retard about something as trivial as a black dude playing 40k. Stop forcing your ''meme''. It's not funny. It was never funny. You are alone.

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Look at the galaxy. Admire what you did to it, teegee.

>>52913091
>60 bongs
>never fit properly
Newfag status: sorely regretting falling down this rabbit hole.

So, flamers don't have 'ignores cover' as a special rule.

Does that mean cover is now a modifier to your 'to hit' rolls or that they decided fire doesn't go around corners?

Also, no 'flame' keyword or anything. Does that mean keywords don't apply to weapons or just that they aren't on the profile?

>52913258
>herp derp: the post
Got any more stale memes, anon, I'm totally digging them

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>>52913227

>that '''''''''''''art''''''''''''''''''

>>52913258
Or theres more than one of us sick of your shit.

Can't wait for tau&eldar stat blocks and weapon profiles
>riptides with double digit wounds
>pulse rifle with (d)2 damage stat
>Scatter lasers with ap modifier
>D transformed to the new system

>>52913221
>Avenger Shuriken Catapult: Assault 2 S:4 AP:0 D:1 On a To Wound roll of 6 it wounds automatically with AP: -3
We're anti-vehicle now.

>>52913258
Yea, in the end, you're still alone shit posting in a 40k thread.

>>52913278
If it is a modifier to the "to hit" roll, then flamers do have ignore cover, as they always hit.

>>52913221
If a lascannon is -3 and Bolters/flamers are 0, we can assume this table:

AP1 = -4
AP2 = -3
AP3 = -2
AP4 = -1
AP5/6/- = 0

>>52913227
>>52913227
>according to polls bulk of tg are guard players
like what, badly at their jobs?

>>52913278
>>52913307
Cover now adds to your save. It seems they don't want different types of saves, just a generic save with modifiers. Makes me think Invulnerables will make you like.. immune to AP or something.

>>52913310
>AP5/6/- = 0

More like...
AP 5 = 0
AP 6/- = +1

Got to make sure orks are always screwed, anon!

>>52913326
>>52913351
do we think that jink will still exist and that it will be a type a type of cover save?

>>52913351
I know you're trying to be funny but let's be real for a second, that makes no sense. Also post yfw a group of Burna Boyz torch fucking Riptides with 15d6 hits.

>>52913193
I just think that you should be able to order FW from stores that way at least the store can meet sales expectations

>>52913310
>when you assume...

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>>52913351
wait what about AP --
since AP 6 is +1 won't AP -- be +2 ?

>>52913382

I forget but Space Marine bikers have access to twin linked flamers, right?

>>52913373
Don't know, but if they're making cover as a concept be a simple save increase, Jink might be removed or be a separate rule that gives the enemy a hit penalty.

Honestly I think a good portion of the rules we have now will be squashed into simple hit, wound or save modifiers.

>>52913391
You make an ass out u and me, I know I know. But it's an educated guess from what we've seen so far, is all I'm saying.

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>>52912926
Quick, the battle of the bands is coming up for 8th. Whats our band name?

>>52913111
>will all vehicles be able to fight in melee?

Probably. It's also pretty easy to do, for example you can give a chimera a d6 attacks for running over/ramming the enemy.

>>52913426
The Unthinned

>>52913382
>...that makes no sense.

When has that ever stopped GW? Besides, it's perfectly justified in terms of simulating the background, just not in terms of game balance. Which means it's more likely than not, since GW have made it pretty clear they don't give a single shit about balance, even in the age of new GW.

>>52913448
I think you're doomsaying and want something to complain about.

>>52913426

The Strip and Try Again

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>>52913426
The Mon-Keigh's

>>52913456
hush

>>52913426
The forced meme

Is there an easy way to strip 100+ models?

>>52913469
Just trying to manage my expectations. Truth be told, my urge to get hyped up and hopeful for the new edition is pretty strong. But I'd rather be pleasantly relieved if it is good than have my hopes dashed if it is terrible.

>>52913489
become Peter Stringfellow?

>>52913390
I dont think FW produces enough to stock store shelves in all GWs, theyre more of a specialized retailer. I have seen them in a few physical stores but only upgrade kits. Theres also the price to take into consideration, as well as the fact that people think FW is sketchy rules-wise.

>>52913508
That's why I think it should be special order like, you can order it through the stores no different than ordering it yourself. They don't have to stock each store, but just have the ability to order through them

>>52913493
I understand you. I'm still a bit apprehensive since now my Rubrics went from tearing open marines a new asshole to them getting a 5+ save, but I haven't seen anything else about invulnerable saves or even their new statlines. Who knows? We have to wait and see.

>>52913402
I'm going with it'll be separate. I'm sure somewhere I've seen tell to to-hit modifiers maybe it'll change those, ah here it is
>You can also see that WS and BS are now standard rolls (Ballistic Skill sort of always was), though you can expect modifiers to both of these stats from in-game effects.

I'm going to miss my Repressor

Good night you magnificent bastard

>>52913558
Aww are you putting it in bed? Give it a good night kiss for me :3

>>52913545
That's what i'm thinking/hoping. I like these modifiers, honestly. But I do think they should've started from AP5 being -1 instead of 0. Would've made a lot more varied saves.

>>52913534
Well, the good news is having -2 rend guns and a 4++ invuln with both of those things being less valuable overall, Rubircs might get lucky with a nice price drop

The las cannon does d6 wounds? Nice, time to scythe down hordes of infantry with las cannon fire.

Where to mount hunter killer missiles on a leman russ? Its pretty obvious where its meant to go on a chimera but i was wondering if there are any lore standard places where they go on the tank

>>52913725
nah they're still just one shot, so it only hits one model
>>52913731
I would put it on the hull beside the turret

>>52913646
Hmm, I don't really agree. I mean let's face it, if someone's packing AP3, you're going to put your marines in cover. Part of the reason people say Rubrics are shit is because you pay a premium for guns that can be negated by ducking behind a bush, giving you a 5+ save at the least.

This way, the best possible save you can take against them will be 4+ (2+ termie equiavalent-2), making them more useful against everything. 5/6 save dudes still get mulched, 4+ get a t-shirt save, marines not much better. Termies go down to carapace armour.

I'm just eager to see how invulns work. the 3 possibilities I can see are:

Invuln adds to your save
Invuln makes you immune to AP modifiers
Invuln can be taken after your regular Save

They may also make Invulns much rarer, like HQ-tier only.

>>52913725
I don't think it works the way you think it does. It's d6 wounds to a single model.

>>52913489
dump them in a tub of simple green ya grot.

>>52913765
Thats a lot of simple green and many hours of brush brush brush

did you guys know that if you go in your games workshop and flip the nametapes for orcs, eldar, tau, necrons, and tyranids around they all say xenos?

>>52913752
Connected to the side so the turret can still rotate?

>>52913777
nice trips
dunno greenstuff is the strongest stuff you can use for plastic and resin without any damage from leaving it in for a while. If it's metal use some heavy duty shit and everything including primer will just slip off.

>>52913794
Put them on the turrent!
It's gotta be on the dick!
>>52913792
Really? My dad works at Nintendo, too!

>mfw orks will not be good
sad tiems approaching

I am excited for flamers to be great again. Since 2 flamers and a heavy flamer can be got on a vet squad for pretty cheap.

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>>52913792

I saw this at my store too except they all say NPCs on the back

>>52913489
Honestly man, get a big bottle of Dettol, the brown shit, not the green garbage.

That stuff is like a nuclear weapon against paint and is safe on your models. Smells pretty bad though.l

>>52913808
>>52913808
If its on the side part of the turret it goes directly into the gun, if i put it on the gun then i cant swap out the guns while keeping it in place

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How'd I do?

>template weapons doing d6 shots
so my 5 template weapon deathwatch squad is going to be pretty brutal now, I guess

>>52913752
>nah they're still just one shot, so it only hits one model
thats absolutely not how ot works.

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>>52913899

>centurions

>>52913899
>playing Stormcast Eternals 40,000
With so many races why are you playing SAMEmarines?

>>52913880
ON.
THE.
DICK.
F'real, tho, put it on the left side of the hull, same side as the hull mounted gun is.

>>52913533
I mean, thats just what the website is already pretty much.

>>52913903
While my guard squad is probably going to feel underwhelming even once they get in range

Terminators will have two wounds? I'm surprised nobody is talking about this

>>52913937
I play SoB. Not sure if it is shit or awesome. But it won't feel as good as a template

>>52913945
I never played any SM chapter, but it always felt odd that they didnt have 2 wounds. Glad they ''fixed'' that.

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>>52913924
Something like this

>>52913916
Yes, it is.
>Damage is a big change. This stats effectively lets a single hit deliver multiple wounds to one model.

>>52913974
Makes me excited for my grey knight playing friend, I'm sure he'll like it alot

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>>52913382
>Also post yfw a group of Burna Boyz torch fucking Riptides with 15d6 hits.

Fuck it, I'm so hyped I drew this just for you.

>>52913899
>Fresca
Could've done better.

>>52913899
>dirty nails
ugh

Do flamers have to deal with cover now?

What's going to be our go-to for digging blobs out of ruins?

>>52913979
Yeah, that's gucci.
>Oh, Mr. HK, you are soo BIG

>>52913899
>Drinking soda
>Dirty finger nails
>Living in a state with sales tax
Poorly

Did no one notice the "Rapid fire 1" profile for the bolter?

>>52913986
Regarding the grey knights: is it true that they were shitty in 7th? I kind of want to build an army since they have a low model count.

>>52913916
40,000 != SIgmar.

They're taking notes, they're not the same game.

Damage in 40,000 isn't going to kill multiple models (unless a special rule says so perhaps?) They literally said that in the preview.

>>52914032

No. You are the first. You are the Chosen One.

>>52914014
Cheers geeze, thought the same, dunno why it came out sideways. Also funnily enough, the chimera hunter killer has more length, but far less girth

>>52914011
Good AP multi shot.

>>52914011
Since Flamers have a "Always hits" rule now, I'd assume that cover saves are now a To Hit modifier.

>>52914032
Someone else pointed out they may be consolidating Rapid Fire with Salvo or something like that.

>>52913922
I was playing Castellans as 90% Guard and Scions.

>>52913755
>They may also make Invulns much rarer, like HQ-tier only

Curious how Daemons / Mark of Tzeentch will work.

>Kinda hoping invulnerable acts as Pen Resistance.

Daemons get a 5+ (Khorne Daemons get 4+) with 2 Pen Resistance. (Lascannon's -3 become only -1).

>>52914081
Guard is acceptable. you have redeemed yourself from faggotry

>>52914027
>soda
I thought that was his local version of Simple Green!

>>52914069
I guess gone are the days of punishing blobs of IG with heavy flamers

>>52914033
They were boring. A 12ish unit codex with about a third was trash. A third was mediocre and a third was good.

>Also 7e dex with no formations = a weak codex.

Hopefully lascannons will cost much more now

How many 'new' wounds are we expecting per old wound / HP? Dread has 8 wounds instead of 3 HP, so *2.67 and Guilliman gained 50%. So I guess a wraithknight might be as little as 9 wounds...

Wounding on 6, 9 wounds, 3+ save... still means it takes a lot of burna boyz. Like 45 of them. Even worse with 2+ save riptides.

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>Cohort Cybernetica will be gone

IT WAS TOO fun TO DIE.

PLEASE, GAMES WORKSHOP, I NEED IT.

>>52914115
>weapon autohits
>ignores cover outright
>deals 1d6 hits to a unit
Are you upset you need to roll for hits?

>>52913945
sperged our load about yesterday.
The facebook page says they'll have something else to keep them survivable on top of that but no clues as to what it'll be. I'm hoping it'll be the ability to re-roll failed saves but I'm sure I'll be dissapointed

>>52914078
So old rapid fire rules?

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>>52913989
I don't even play orks, but goddamn that's dope. Nicely done ya git

What if they pull a Slambo and remake Johnny?

>>52914156
They listed Imperial Knights, Gorkanauts and Land Raiders as having "dozens of wounds". I'd assume a Wraithknight would also at least have 10 to be on a similar scale to those three.

>>52914148
Why?
Unless you are using them to snipe ICs with precision shot, they are clearly an anti-vehicle weapon.
Unless you think they deal d6 wounds to the unit, instead of a single target.

>>52914148
They are generally pretty expensive already. Hopefully most stuff gets repriced though.

>>52914181
I could realistically see them remake Sly Marbo.

>>52914171
Flamers don't ignores cover unless theres something we havn't seen yet.
Dev's confirmed on twitter that cover is a bonus to the save

>>52914177
>re-roll failed saves
5+ rerollable vs Lascannons
That's pretty durable.

>>52914148
Fuck off dickhead, they already cost too much.

>>52914033
Seventh edition wasn't good for grey knights at all. Firstly their codex got gutted down to almost an ally tier codex. Secondly, the abundance of AP2 in this edition fucks them over. The low model count of a grey knight army doesn't help with that either. None of the units are "OP" but it feels like you pay too many points for how they perform in the tabletop.

If flamers dont ignore cover anymore that is going to be pretty gay.

>>52914208
Hate to be that guy, but you got a source?

I was really hoping Cover would've been To Hit modifiers. (Thus auto hit ignores it)

>>52914171
If they blobbed up you could punish tight clusters, now they can just move everything with a shovel and it won't make a difference to how much you hit them.

>>52914240
How the fuck would you implement ignores cover if cover just adds to armor save now?

>>52914212
>>52914093
Pen Resistance. that an AoS thing? Perhaps this is the answer to the Terminator durability question

>>52914240
Agreed, it was the only way low model number armies could deal with hordes

If they get grav/plasma to kill my armor, shouldn't I get flamers to ignore their cover blobs?

>>52914248
>Square bases in Rank-and-File trays. Guard marching in tight formation.

That's a bad thing?

>>52914240
What's the justification for burny stuff in general ignoring cover? Doesn't napalm actually get stopped by shit bullets would just pass through in real life?

>>52914244
https://twitter.com/GeekJockPete/status/856935170997465089

>>52912932
>The Void
>Fallout: New Vegas

Replace nukes with elder gods.

>>52914273
If you torch a bunker with a flamethrower, the superheated air expands to liquify anything inside that isn't covered in airtight armor.

See WW2, korea, vietnam.

>>52914251
>This weapon negates any armour save bonus provided by cover

Wow that was hard.

>>52914240
Why do people have such trouble applying logic to what the Flamer's new rule entails?

They're the go-to anti-horde and anti-cover weapon in the game and always were. They now don't have templates anymore but always hit an automatic 1d6 hits.
If their rule skips the To Hit roll and the weapon is meant to ignore cover, it's obvious that cover will play a part in your chance to hit a target, as it should've always been, rather thanyour ability to hurt them after hitting.

Ergo, it's save to assume that cover will worsen BS instead of acting as an additional atmot or force field.

>>52914270
Yeah, because they can fit more models in cover without the trade off of more potential wounds due to being so close when targeted by blast weapons.

>>52914287
Thanks!

>>52914301
Well okay, thanks for answering my question, good answer, good answer

>>52914158
Play seven then, nobody is forcing you to play 8ed

>>52914301
You beat me to it.

Almost like people are wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

>>52914314
See
>>52914287

>>52914270
If I wanted that I would play WHF. Oh wait they axed that.

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>>52913989

>>52913397
all the + pen modifiers are tg fanfiction, in reality lasguns will stay at s3 pen zero and anything with ap 5 will get a slight nerf(which will propably be negated by point cost reduction so thats wont be really a nerf just a slight change that will result with cheaper/more durable models)

>>52914094
>>52914097
I was going to take them as Red Hunters to be a catch all force to fill my Russ Lines. Maybe anti air in a pinch.

Also don't knock Fresca. Zero calorie grapefruit seltzer made with Splenda is the bee's knees.

>>52914337
My basic human intellect is telling me to play 8e because 7e is such a giant fucking shitshow that I'd give my nutsack to get out of this mess.

>>52914078
Could be the number of extra shots for being half range. Things could be "rapid fire 2" and get 3 shots at half.

>>52914177
Some sigmar units have abilities that ignore certain rend values. It's possible they could have the same thing so they still get 2+ against -1, but need 4s against -2, etc. Just a guess though.

>>52914383
>Marines get ANOTHER point reduction
What the fuck is the point of the army if they field as many models as Guard at this stage?

Low-key, it's pretty silly that Bolters have no armor penetration at all.

They should at least have -1 to pierce T-Shirts.

>>52914445
I agree.

>>52914383
>Vanguard are even cheaper now, and if they keep their ability do 2W most of the time.
Please yes, since we've lost our formations that kept the halves of our army together and have no flamers or strong saves to be good in the new edition.

>>52914208
>Dev's confirmed on twitter that cover is a bonus to the save
Not sure what to think of that...

So, cover benefits you more, the better your armour is and weapons with good armour penetration are also good against cover?

Not sure if I like that or not. Means most hordes don't need to worry about keeping in cover which at least simplifies their movement (and no more blast templates helps too) while marines and the like will want to be more careful (which kind of suits their elite nature, I guess). Most heavy armour units are kind of 'close assault' types who seem to suit hanging out in ruins. On the other hand, it reduces the survivability of ork and similar armies even further and even if it's balanced by the points costs, you will still need to bring a lot of bodies to soak up those casualties, which cost more money (yeah, that's an upside for GW), take longer to paint, occupy more storage space, etc. Hopefully the bigger models in those armies will be good enough that you're not relying on just hordes.

I wonder if they'll change the nob statline.

>>52914445
I do not agree.

>>52914445
Reroll 1s to Wound or let's bolters treat cover as one less.

>If light cover gives you +1 to your save Bolters would ignore it.

>If light cover makes you Hit at -1 Bolters ignore it.

>>52914501
Why do you not agree

>>52914445
I agree
>>52914501
I do not agree

>>52914508
Bolters straight ignoring a farm fence someone is hiding behind makes sense, really. They'd penetrate light cover like that.

>>52914518
Because I play chaos renegades and I have never gotten to use my 6+ armor save against a shooting attack because all I fight are tau and marines.

>>52914508
>Reroll 1s to Wound
Stop appropriating my imperial fists culture

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>>52914536
I agree with your not agreeing of his agreeing to the not agreeing

>>52914547
Maybe you should fight different armies or use troops with better armor. Seems very much to do with you and little to do with the system as a whole.

>>52914572
OK I'll just magically summon opponents without weapons that pierce armor, or cheat and give my troops better armor. Good idea!

>>52914547
Renegade brother why you worry about armor save? Don't waste points to increase armor save on shitty BS2. Buy more men. Way more cost efficient than armor.

>>52914598
You're complaining about the army that you picked, which already has an abyssmal armour save, having an abyssmal armour save. Nobody here is to blame but you. If you hate having next to no/no armor, why did you pick that army?

>>52914600
Because armor helps in melee, which is where i want to be when fighting tau. I once lost a 20 man melee blob to a tau commander because they had no armor.

>>52914629
>use models with no armor
>get pissed that they have no armor
Meat is your armor. You should know this.

>>52914559
>Stop appropriating my imperial fists culture

You reroll 1s TO HIT not To Wound.

Go directly to the Pain Glove.

>>52914623
No, I'm saying I would like to get an armor save, learn to read. Being able to take an armor save would be a nice experience to get for once, and someone saying that marine bolters and by extension most other ap5 weapons getting a -1 to return to the status quo is something that I would not like to happen.

>>52914572
>>52914623
Not that anon, but with the game as it is, why even have armor that's worse then 4+? There's fundamentally no difference from an armor save of 6+ and having nothing at all, that seems like it has a little to do with the system as a whole.

>>52914658
So many bodies. I'm gonna miss the formation that lets me bring guys back on a 2+

Should I come back to 40k for this new edition?

>>52914677
Except that it makes sense. Your armor should only be useful against things like autoguns and lasguns, and ccws, the very basic of weapons. Bolters are not lasguns, and they had an appointment value for a reason, because they are better weapons. It makes no sense to need weapons just to buff armor, especially armor that is already intended to be shitty.

>>52914748
Free core rules, so you could try it.

>>52914701
Because there are plenty of weapons with no ap value that see widespread use in geq armies, see >>52914753

>>52914069
Cover saves are an armor modifier, this has been confirmed

>>52914421
Then man up and forget that formation ever existed

>>52914748
Wait for actaul launch then decide
Frankly me and my m8 are going to book the whole day off when 8th hits and playtest the shit out of it

How much longer do you reckon these "one teaser per day" days will keep going?

They'll obviously end it with the release announcement soon, but I do wonder if it'll happen this week.

Hell, I'd not even be too surprised if they told us on Sunday "Go and sit your ass down and finish those plastic soldiers! 8e is launching NEXT WEEKEND!".

Hope I can still run my blitz brigade in some way

>>52914869
I would be surprised. It's not conducive to good marketing. Expect release date announcement 2-5 weeks in advance.

I want to play it now

Fuck 7th ed

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Anyone recognise what kit these marines are from? Poses/scale looks different from anything I've seen.

>>52915112
Because they're nuMarines, like what we've been talking about for weeks ever since the leaks.

>>52915112
You're late. General consensus is that they're marines wearing a newer armor mark with more upright poses. Anyone who thinks they're some sort of numarine special unit is fucking retarded. They're space marines with a newer sculpt.

>>52915112
truescale marines, there was a leak months ago but everyone kept spouting off about how it was "confirmed to be a conversion"

>>52915153
What does truescale even mean?

>>52915112
>He missed the shitstorm

Numarines are coming, prepare for lulz as all existing Marines are squatting manlets in comparison.

>>52915173
It means the genetically engineered killing machine mutants are now taller than guardsmen

>>52915173
To an actual scale and not fat little toddlers

>>52915173
Scaled more to how they are in the fluff. Marines tower over regular guardsmen f.ex but on the tabletop they're almost the same size.

>>52915173
I assume it means "reflects the size of marines in fluff" in comparison to other models, because as it is marine models are only slightly taller than guard models.

>>52915201
They're the same size mostly due to pose. Deathwatch and TSons are way taller and more accurate to fluff heights. I suspect these new sculpts are just upright and not standing akimbo. That would contribute heavily to a perceived increase in height. However, I highly double gw will actually increase their scale or change their proportions because it would mess with already existing sculpts heavily.

>>52915140
Upright Ork sculpts when?

>>52915271
You wouldn't ask for that if you had seen the picture.

>>52915271
Somebody post the longorks

With 8th coming, will Blood Angels or Grey Knights be the better assault army?

>>52915271
Never because the lore explicitly says they hunch and niggers don't deserve anything good.

Man, I wonder how awesome Leman Russ's will look in terms of wound count....

>>52915370
We don't fucking know because the rules aren't out yet
What the heck kind of question is that

>>52912788
You painted over the maggots in his wounds, tongue and the right side of his mouth

>>52913031
I think mid-strength weapons will be king in this edition. Highest S weapons like lascannons and whatever destroyer is going to are good for knocking down things with dozens of wounds, but if the average vehicle sits at dreadnought level? 12/13 front armor translating to T7 and 3 go translating to 8 wounds, I think autocannons will become king. Good volume of shots, probably at least a -1/-2 modifier, and probably d3 wounds apiece can put some serious hurt. And they are much cheaper than lascannons right now.

>>52912991

>BS3, hitting on 4s
>To-hit modifiers are confirmed, meaning at long ranges it might even require a 5+ or 6+

Nah, dreads will be fine

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>>52915271

>>52914445
No.
If basic infantry guns are packing save modifiers then Power Armour quickly drops in value.
Effectively Marines would be gimping themselves.

>>52915450
Well fuck you too.

Would it be acceptable to put Dark Eldar Prisoners on the same base as a slaaneshi daemon prince?

>>52915488
>gimping themselves
Obviously they'd use weaponry designed to take down other Power Armor users when their archenemy is using the same equipment as they are.

>>52915112
They're the new starter set Marines.
You can notice the cloned poses of the two at the back.

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>>52915468
Zog me, that's horrifying

>>52915458
Maybe... but if they only deal 2 shots, 1D2 per shot, then they won't be as potentially good at hurting vehicles, which is the point. Vehicles are prob. going to have a high save to make up for the loss of armour, as well as wounds. Meaning you CAN take down a take with loads of infantry fire... but is it really worth it? Not really, so those heavy weapons will find better use in those scenarios while Autocannons will be great against marines and the like.

>>52914665
I know, was just trying to be cute.

>Go directly to Pain Glove
You win that contest, though.

>>52915509

Why not?

>>52913005
Isn't that just being an Ork?

>>52915509
Does the Daemon Prince know they're there? He's going to be pretty aggressively trying to get to them and do unspeakable things with them.

>>52915488
Ok you seek to keep making this confusion about "basic infantry guns" - there is no such thing. There is no baseline weapon all armies use. Marine bolters are native only to marines and some other imperial factions. They are by no means basic. Only marines and sororitas get them as their base weapon, because marines are elite soldiers. It makes sense for bolters to get armor peircing, it just does due to the nature of the gun. But nobody is arguing that lasguns and similar weapons do.

>>52915112
Im excited just because some of them are actually holding their bolters in front of themselves.

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So do you guys think they'll change much for Berserkers in 8th? I figure they'll at least get new models once the DG are done.

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Plastic plague drones?

>>52915603
Problem is I'm not sure how lewd is considered too lewd. I wanted two around his legs and one based on a branchwraith on a wrack split open above his back.

>>52915638
Don't be pedantic. Of course there's baseline guns, just like there's, MEQs, TEQs, and GEQs. And it doesn't make sense for the baseline stuff to have an AP, that will just lead to more power creep and tier lists.

>>52915705
Except it does make sense otherwise they wouldnt have had ap5 for the past several editions now.

>>52915638
The bolter is a very basic gun. Marines make up a huge number of armies all using bolters.
I don't care about their fluff as elite nigga gangstas when it comes to the game.
Their armour save should not be modified by the most basic and universal gun in the game.

>>52915705
>Boltguns are just TOO powerful
t. no one ever

>>52915673

the thought crossed my mind as well

hopefully it will come to pass

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>>52915535
There's others.

>>52913382

50 flamer auto-hits are averaging 3 wounds on a T6 3+sv model.

Anyone who seriously intends on using flamer units for MC/Vehicle hunting are in for a pretty rude awakening.

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>>52915737

>>52915719
>Bolter
>The most basic and common gun
Now I know you're just shitposting, when things like lasguns and stunners exist. Next thing you'll be saying is that they shouldn't get power armor because tac marines are the basic infantry

>>52915774
>Now I know you're just shitposting, when things like lasguns and stunners exist.

Lasguns and autoguns are defintely worse than bolters, but the bolter is far more common.

>Next thing you'll be saying is that they shouldn't get power armor because tac marines are the basic infantry

No, because my point is that bolters shouldn't affect power armour because Marines really bank on their 3+ and if the most common gun in the game is suddenly putting them in carapace armour that's bad.

>>52915774
I get what he means. The Bolter is the average in 40k. It's the baseline by the virtue of being iconic and the stable gun of the biggest faction in terms of playerbase.

>>52915819
Power Armour
>Provides a 3+ Armour Save and reduces any AP of -1 to 0

>>52915774
>the 5 flavors of loyalist marines use it
>sisters of battle use it
>guard characters use it and can strap it to tanks
>chaos marines use it
>Necrons use a different version of it that hurts tanks more
>Tau use a +1 folded 1000 times version of it

Aside from Nids, Orks, Guard, and Eldar, a lot armies have something like a bolter or better for their basic gun

>>52915819
Boltguns are common but to say they're the most common gun in the game is not true, fluff wise or percentage wise per armies, and even if it were, balancing a weapon on the fact that lots of people play space marines is fucking stupid.

>>52915847
Hell, even Nids do. Our basic troops have bolt pistols.

>>52915867
Strength 4 AP 5 is the most common weapon profile by model count by a HUUUUUUGE margin. To not balance around taht fact would destroy the game.

>>52915847
>Eldar
Avenger shuriken catapults are good (especially on an army that can shoot+run)

>no regular shuriken catapults are Eldar lasguns

>>52915867
Boltguns are the baseline for troop weapons.

Lasguns aren't the baseline, they're 'weaker than bolters'. Pulse rifles aren't the baseline, they're 'stronger than bolters'. Boltguns are the bar that everything else is set by, same as the marine's 4/4/4/4/4 statline.

>>52915902
But the problem is now GW has taken the bolter from being excellent against low armor units to having no armor penetrating ability whatsoever. It's a big nerf.

>>52915867
Right. Its better to balance around all armies, and Boltguns being -0 works out fine for that. Anyone with 5+ or 6+ is gonna die under concentrated bolter fire anyway, and anyone with a 3+or 4+ doesn't need their save weakened since they pay a lot of points for it

>>52915867
>Boltguns are common but to say they're the most common gun in the game is not true

Is it though?
Every other army typically has a unique suite o weapons.
But the bolter is standard for all Marines, Chaos Marines and even Sisters of Battle. Necrons basically have it.

>balancing a weapon on the fact that lots of people play space marines is fucking stupid.

But it's not. Especially not when you officially support so many Space Marine armies.

>>52915926
It would be a bigger nerf if Space Marines were now down to 4+ against the most common weapon in the game.
Maybe Guard, Orks and other 5+/6+ shitter Horde troops will come with lower armour to the bolter as deadly, but if not then it;s still only 5+/6+ saves.

>>52915932
Ok, your explanation makes sense.

>>52915889
>>52915914

So its literally just guard and Orks that don't have AP 5 troop guns, and both of them could use the boost of being on more even footing.

>>52915989
Except Lasguns as a whole's gimick is "cheaper and easier to make than boltguns"

Orks Shootas are pretty sweet for quantity of shots (plus able to assault after shooting), and in the zero sum of 7e AP6 wasn't much worse than AP5 besides against Guards, Gaunts, and Orks.

>>52916076
Yeah, and that's likely going to be represented with Lasguns being S 3 and still worse than bolters, while Shootas will have less range and worse accuracy.

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>equip my tactical squads with plasma guns
>these new flamer rules
Guess I should just start making flamer squads

>>52913441
Check out my new Melee Guard list!

>Parking lot

>>52913025
>Lascannon Havoks
>Flamerx5 Chosen
>melta Raptors
>plasma troops

Wow that's hard!

>>52914057
Gotta love that the Leman Russ commander fires his battle cannon by thrusting his battle cannon at the enemy.

>>52916153
Wonder if plasma guns get two stats. Don't they have that in SW:A?

>>52913989
I don't care if it only wounds on 6's. This shit is gunna be awesome!

Also, how will they determine what can and can't aim at flyers?

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REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
VOMP VOMP VOMP VOOOOOOOMP
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
ITS GETTING LOUD NOW

>>52916250
They won't, probably.

>>52916250
Keywords is my guess.

Assuming those didn't get axed

>>52916402
>flamers hitting flyers
This edition is going to be so fucking stupid

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Where are you guys getting these weapon tables from?

>>52916402
So let me tell you about the time my Orks downed a Valkyrie with nothing but Burnas!

>>52916449
They'll probably give flamers a special rule that says "cant hit fliers"

Not that hard to figure out anon

>>52916460
Maybe the same place we've been getting daily updates from for a week

>>52916449
Flyers being on the table at this scale is stupid anyway.

>>52916490
I've been away for a week. I'm not seeing anything new on the GW page.

>>52916469
Or they might give Fliers a special rule that makes it so guns with a range shorter than say...20 inches can't target them.

>>52916153

>have an old SoB army full of so many flamers

Guess I'm back in the game

>>52916503
Agreed. Flyers were a dumb addition

>>52916525
This also gives me hope plastic SoBs might be on the way. I mean, if this is the edition of flamersquads, fucking sororitas need to get in on it

>>52916509
try warhammer community or the Facebook page

>>52916563
Thank you kind Anon.

>>52916503
>on the table
i have my flyers hanging on a string with a thumb tack that i put in the ceiling

>>52916577
That's probably violating physics unless your talking deffcopters. I remember thumb tack and it is NOT that strong!

>>52916577
I use a drone with a fishing rod to move my valkyries around the board.

>>52916544
But without it we wouldn't have the Marauder Bomber!

All I want is my B-17 covering the board with explosives! Is that such a bad thing!

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Cringey stock photos aside, the more I see about this new edition the more confident I feel about it.

The deal breaker is how they're going to handle the complex representation of daemons. If it's the same as Age of Sigmar I will definitely feel depressed.

>>52916220
'Low Energy' and 'Max Power' settings, yeah. That'd be pretty cool. Though in SW:A, it just gives bonus strength while making the Ammo roll worse. It'd be cool if the low power setting didn't trigger Gets Hot or something.

>>52916620
Have you considered making a drone out of the valkyrie?

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>tfw you got into the hobby first it was fine to play at small games of 1000 points without massive super heavies or formations
>tfw you're scared the new edition won't be your chance to get back into the hobby and will move further from the small scale tactics you enjoyed as a kid

Boy I sure look forward to flamers doing 1 hit to the mass clustered horde sitting in front of me.

>>52916469
I thought this edition was supposed to cut down on special rules bloat.

>>52916469
Or flyers get a special rule: Don't exist

>>52916667
I guarantee you this will actually bring the scale of the game down. I can tell you this because AoS is more friendly to smaller scale matches than 40k and they're making it more like AoS

>>52916669
Well the first ork jumps right into the stream, doesn't it.

>>52916677
Cut down on main rules bloat. Easy to use special rules when they are on the weapons page.

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>>52915673
>>52915733
Maybe there are some in the starter set?
I think this could be one.

>>52916677
Nah they're cutting down the main rules to 12 pages and giving armies keywords. That way new players only have to learn the core rules and rules specific to their armies.

>>52916299
God I love noise marines

>>52916724
thicc
Is that the starter set perhaps?

I wonder when GW finally realized they needed to start cutting down on the rules. Sure tournament organizers might have some sway but I doubt that alone was enough. My guess is when they released Death from the Skies and NOBODY PLAYED IT!

>>52916667
It'll absolutely make small games more viable. Right off the bat, 'everything can damage everything' is a big one. Assault changes make tons of more models viable. MCs and vehicles get weaker as they take damage too, something right from AoS that does a lot to help small game viability.

>>52915153
>but everyone kept spouting off about how it was "confirmed to be a conversion"

I loved how everyone was claiming this despite the entire autistic force of the online Warhammer 40K community being unable to actually source the pieces used for that "obvious conversion"

>>52916759
Likewise. I wonder how sonic weaponry is going to work. They might just end up being Rapid fire 2 for the Sonic Blasters if Salvo is gone, though it's hard to say what else they might have depending on how cover works.

>>52916677
7th didn't had too much rules. They where spread across multiple books with rules that are basically the same but named differently and different rules under the same name

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>>52916783
>My guess is when they released Death from the Skies and NOBODY PLAYED IT!

Absolute trash. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?

>>52916667
have a look at these, there are small force organisations.
>Patrol Detachment
>HQ + 1 Troop
>Pathfinder Detachment
>HQ + 2 Troop

>>52916724
You can't tell what that is?
http://angelssanguine.blogspot.com/2010/07/imperial-guard-bastion.html

>>52916826
>>52916784
>>52916710
Thank you for calming my heart. Time to continue painting my Death Korps.

>>52916836
o boi i am laffin

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>>52916826
forgot pic

With the stats shown so far, it looks like small forces and game will be entirely viable again :D

>>52916801
Rapid fire 2, concussive I hope

>>52916783

I have never seen a core update for any game where the community unanimously decided "No. We are not playing this." Death from the Skies is just that bad.

>>52914297
Yeah, but that's because you're shooting it into an enclosed space. It also requires you to be firing straight into the firing points of a bunker, and if you're pointing your weapon inside the bunker, then a gun negates the cover just as much as the flamethrower. The flamethrower vs bunker deadliness is covered in the no escape rule.

If I'm on the other side of a concrete wall and you flamer the wall, it's going to be hot as fuck, but I'm not going to give more than minimal shits.

>>52916864
new player here, what did DFTS do that was so egregious

>>52916859
I really hope we get details soon on what FOC charts are like.

>>52916766
Perhaps.
It would fit the Ultramarine vs Death Guard face they've put on the edition so far. Though I feel like there might be too many Ultras.

>>52916836
Not the whole building, just the kind of Nurgley coloured smear in the middle.

>>52916862
I'm not sure if Concussive would work as well with the new rules, since you already strike first for charging.

Might be cool if Pinning is still a thing and is more relevant thanks to the leadership changes.

>>52916883
They said they're doing one of these daily updates on force orgs soon

>>52916911
A Pinning is fine too.

Although concussive would be similar to unwieldy I think. Surely there will be a "This weapon can not strike first, even when charging"

>>52916667

My standard game size in school used to be around 800 points. Good old 4th edition days.

Introducing flyers and superheavies ruined a lot of the fun for me, tournaments are always large games too and never seem to be 1000pts and below. Makes it expensive to participate.

Add to that the absolutely stupid number of expansions to the game recently and it's been dead to me.

Anyone else remember the 3rd edition rulebook that had lists for all the armies in the back? I miss that, hopefully this new edition brings back some of the accessibility.

>>52916883
>FOC charts
Hopefully I won't have to go to the automated ATM machine and get some money from the teller to buy some of those sweet FOC charts

>>52915638
Think of "Basic infantry Strength" in fantasy. It's 3-4.

Sure, there are the odd ubermensch but in general units fall in the 3-4 sections with anything stronger left to the special and rare choices.

It's perfectly alright for your heavily armoured, fast and tough basic infantry to not also blow the fuck out of enemy saves, bolters do not need to make Terminator armour into power armour.