/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

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Does anyone have the "World of Darkness General" template/layer that's pasted on the previous thread's OP picture and this one? I want to make more WoD general related images with that particular typeset.

>>52902067

I house ruled that digital information falls under the purview of Prime, as part of my attempt to use the digital web in Nmage. It seems to fit. Invisible power, non-mental information, etc.

>>52902649

Hypothesis: The GM is a superdemon running exploits on the exarchs.

>>52903192

The origin of mage supremacy. Masters are vanishingly rare for a reason.

>>52903913
>>52905120

It still chaps my ass that Alien gets so little love as a Fansplat compared to Genius or Princess.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-fPVMwMZdnrJZiJkUVIYKCHTQnfmq0fiLqUhlLBGif4/edit

>>52906894
>>52906948

It's based on gnosticism, but it's not a carbon-copy of it.

>>52912097

Never found enough people to do it. The idea of playing a clan basically doomed if you want a ventrue-like vamp is kind of offputting, but i'd still be willing to give it a try.

>>52912097
>>52912256
I would absolutely love to play Requiem for Rome. And possibly change history, but that's not mandatory.

>>52912256
>Masters are vanishingly rare for a reason.
IIRC, the biggest killer of Mages is tripping over another, older Mage's convoluted plan while trying to advance your own plan and getting BTFO.

>>52912256
>It still chaps my ass that Alien gets so little love as a Fansplat compared to Genius or Princess.
To be fair, it just hasn't had has much exposure.

>>52912256
>It's based on gnosticism, but it's not a carbon-copy of it.
You shouldn't reply to that guy, anon. He has no clue what the fuck he's talking about and several of his complaints are void because they're already in the game.

>archmages do fuck off to a higher plane after ascending
>attaining higher levels of gnosis does detach you from the mundane
>the goal of ascension isn't to kill the exarchs
>the goal of ascension is about escaping their prison and ascending above it all.

I mean anybody who reads the fucking wiki should know that.

So I'm in the process of puting together sort of "[city] by night" for my players. Who is who, pictures, covenants and so on.

I wonder if anyone else does stuff like this for their games?

>>52913365
I use a tiddlywiki for each of my games

As far as fan splats go, what does /wodg/ think of this? Someone in my group occasionally asks to use it when we go a mixed group.

http://vampirerpg.free.fr/Rules/Highlander/title.html

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>>>>52907882
It exists because of a mistake. The people at White Wolf misread the market and didn't know that the 90's RPG bubble was bursting with the rise of the MMO. So, they rejiggered their entire line and Requiem sold like hotcakes but immediately after that, sales plummeted back to their depressed level.

Cue aquisition by CCP.

>>52912139

Seriously, no one? Is the guy who made these just gone from these generals?

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>>52913655

I never liked that fanart of Deb. Reminds me of that midget from Youtube.

>>52913655

Well, there was also booksellers vanishing that played a hand into it. Even if oWoD had continued uninterrupted, the death of places like Borders would have doomed White Wolf anyways. Getting bought out was pretty inevitable, and the time of the metaplot was coming to a close anyways. The only real change is that we probably would have gotten a straight up Storygame edition of VtM in about 2008-2012 as a 4e. That or White Wolf would have straight up died and FFG would have ended up with the rights.

>>52913842

Aspel made a lot of them, so yes. I think they exclusively post on Twitter now.

>>52914127

>Aspel

I only came around into this thread a few weeks before her vanished completely, but I figure people have a legit reason for not liking him and the whole "Don't reply to Aspel" posting that went on for a while.

But seriously, Aspel made those? God fucking damn. Guess I'll talk to him then about it. Got his twitter handle or forum username from OPP forums?

>>52912840

I keep posting it here because I think it's brilliant, especially for a Fansplat. It has a concise idea of what it is and what it wants to do, and Alien actually fits pretty well unless you're one of those people who can't deal with having Nuts n' Bolts aliens in the CofD. I'd change a few things, but I like it.

>>52914164

There was another person who did them who occasionally posts around here but yeah a lot of them were theirs. They always were good at basic graphic design stuff like that, and while I always thought their fan work was half-baked and always released too early, it's not like they didn't look good.

They don't post on OPP anymore, or at least they vanished from OPP at the same time as they vanished from the thread. I don't remember their Twitter handle, I ran into them exactly once on there and didn't talk to them. I've had enough of talking to them for one lifetime on here, I wouldn't want to do that again on a place where they could send off posts at the speed of light.

I wonder what made them finally drop off, though. Either way, it's for the best, posting on a place where people want to dunk on you personally isn't healthy, and while I can't say I ever liked them as a person, I wish them well all the same.

Anyways, someone else also does those, they come around from time to time and hopefully you can ask them.

>>52914377

The problem is that the person who makes these seems to only appear in early morning hours for me, when I'm asleep, and I've posted a few times before, and no one ever replied. Still, I guess I'll keep trying in every thread. Thanks.

Does anyone have a pdf of Rio?

>>52914377
>tfw every notable person from this general is dead

>>52914455

Time is the fire in which we burn.

is it just me or are changelings kind of underpowered at the start

>>52914698
Changelings are usually quite weak in general.

>>52914377
Don't. Aspel was the kind of player that That Guy threads were made for. We're talking about an avowed pedophile that treated it as a civil rights issue.

>>52914101
Deb is forever linked in my mind with that one radio dj from GTA VI. The one that did Radio Broker.

I know that the latter is based on a real person, but in my mind both of them are kind of messy looking brunettes holding cigarettes in smoky rooms, slight smirks always on their faces and their eyes sly.

I definitely have not thought about this more than I should.

>>52912256
>Masters are vanishingly rare for a reason.

They're really not.

>>52914955

Are you talking about that inbred coathanger, Delameme?

>>52914954

So, they were an average pre-2008 4chan poster, then.

Okay so on a slightly less flamewary topic but still related, whats the highest rank of inferno demon a archmage could beat?

>>52915286
How is this slightly less flamewary?

>>52915326
Because I doubt anyone is going to run to the defense of literally Satan. Or rather, inferno demons aren't the specific domain of any splat so it isn't stepping on anyones toes.

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Best cards per Discipline?

>>52915106
No clue who that is. No, I meant Juliette Lewis.

>>52915286
Depends on the Archmage in question, but if the respective Seeker has attained the Practice of Transfiguration he/she will be capable of taking out even Satan.

>>52915473
Shame they don't get much focus. I'd like to imagine what sort of reactions the other factions would have from someone going on a crusade against hell. Prime would probably be best for it right? What with it's association with stuff like celestial flames and so on.

>>52915527
Transfiguration Is infinite in accordance with the Arcanum being used, there would be a lot of overlap between the ten Arcana overall due to the heavy interpretation as a basis for it.
Prime would no-doubt be the best option for a crusade of such scale, but the others are also solid options.

I imagine the Pax would still be in effect, if rather minimized. I don't think any single Archmage would cry over mighty Lucifer being thrown down, but you never know.

>>52915610
I gotta dig back in the book, do the seers/abyss have any connection to that place?

Stuff like this is why I wish other splats had archmage like rules for power stat 6+. Not because >muh balance but because I want to play a werewolf who eats the devil's heart. Or a changeling who plays tricks on god's of entire planets. Granted I guess it's a theme thing, WoD was never meant to support high level play like that, from a fluff or mechanics perspective.
Though I guess I can hold out hope that I can reverse engineer it from scion somehow.

>>52915610
Better question is what happens when that archmaster gets tempted and falls into service of Inferno

>>52915695
If it ever actually came up (but let's face it, it won't) I'd run it like an altered version of one of those abyssal archmages.

>>52915695
Archmages are too arrogant and confident when it comes to their own capabilities, to be tempted by others, even Satan.

I might just be running on stereotypes. Hubris and all.

>>52915803
Inferno Demons can give you both Arcana, Gnosis, and Artifacts (including 'lost' ones) they might be a bit tempted by what Satan has to offer.

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Vorador could pretty much fit as a Tzimisce character in WoD, right?

>>52915778
Well we have Archmasters serving Exarchs, ones serving abyss, ones that want to return old gods to their stations. So Archmaster serving Lower Depths is not out of question. Bonus points if he is Obrimos and uses Inferno to Ascend as a symbol of sin or corruption(dunno if we have exarch for that already)

>>52915667
Sadly, I don't think there will ever be an Archmage-equivalent Template for non-Mage gamelines.

Though you're right about the theme(s) being the deciding factor; Mage (both old and new) having the most incentives to receive this luxury.

>>52915831
Reclusive, freaky bat dude, lives in a huge stately mansion way the fuck out in the creepy wilderness? Fuck yeah. Though he's probably one of those Tzimisce elders who don't give two shits about the Sabbat.

>>52915821
They can? According to DaveB Pangaeans are the only non-Supernal entities to have access to the Arcana, not the demons of Inferno.

Mind if I ask for a citation for further references?

>>52915876
They don't cast them, they can grant them to mages.

>>52915887
That's still considered access to Supernal whatnot though, something Pangaeans explicitly occupy in status.

>>52915911
wat

>>52915911
Demons literally can't access them. Are you retarded? Pangeans POSSES arcana ratings. Demons CAN GRANT MAGES AND ONLY MAGE, their power stat and arcana. Just like they can offer any other supernatural parts of their template. That doesn't mean Demons can use them or even have access to them.

Demons granting other Templates increases to their core-abilities & statistics is an outdated mechanism dating back to first edition.

Pay no heed to it.

>>52915361
aabbt kindred

>>52915974
So hostile. Perhaps you should take your overdue morning medication?

>>52915887
I found only this in Inferno but there might be more

>Entering into a demonic pact requires a degeneration
roll to avoid losing Wisdom (roll 2 dice). Demons
cannot grant a mage dots in Arcana, but can grant
knowledge of rotes. A demon cannot call down Artifacts
from the Supernal Realms, but can arrange for a
mage to come into possession of an existing Artifact.
Rotes are mixed traits, while Artifacts are external
traits. The Dream Merit is an internal trait. Demons
cannot grant the Destiny Merit.
A mage who reserves part of her Mana pool
to power a pact has a constant feeling of unease,
as though her Unseen Senses are never quiet. The
character suffers a –1 to the Wits + Composure roll to
detect supernatural phenomena with Unseen Senses.
(Using Mage Sight does not incur this penalty.)

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>>52915974
>Demons literally can't access them
>Demons CAN GRANT MAGES AND ONLY MAGE, their power stat and arcana
>That doesn't mean Demons can use them or even have access to them.

>>52915527

I have to wonder how Descent Demons would react to Inferno Demons.

>>52915695

I don't really think the lower depths have anything to offer a mage.

>>52915848

I assume they do exist, though, because it's mentioned that they do. Filling in the blanks is your prerogative. I would be hesitant to run an archmaster-level game, in all fairness.

>>52916043
Also this

>A demon can grant an increase in the character’s
“power trait” (Blood Potency/Primal Urge/Gnosis/
Azoth/Wyrd), but doing so requires a Major Sacrifice for
each dot by which the character wishes to increase it.

>>52916089
>because it's mentioned that they do
Never been mentioned for a fact, rather a "what if" scenario. Nothing canon about. Methuselahs aren't the Archmage equivalents for Vampires, as an example.

>>52916089
I think there was some kind of sidebar about that exact topic at the start of the book, like how many beings go by the name 'demon'. Or wait, maybe that was at that start of the descent book.

>>52916089
There's currently no canon instance of a god-tier Template for another gameline.

Only Masquerade back in oWoD had one, and they weren't really comparable to Archmages at the higher end of play.

>>52916274
True Fae are god-tier for Changeling considering they are the strongest thing changeling can face within its own splat and they are also what Changeling can turn into

>>52913365
Im putting together one for my Requiem game now actually

>>52915193
We're talking about a tripfag who dropped their trip to avoid filtering. I've never seen anyone begged to start tripfagging before Aspel and I haven't seen it since.

>>52916336
Heh my notes for Requiem are getting bloated as outside cheat sheet for players that I'm building I also have shit ton of notes on mind map.

How are yours going?

>>52916320
Yeah, but that's where comparisons come into play. The True Fae are rank 7 entities, which is one rank lower than Luna & Helios.
Archmages as a whole can be in any rank depending on how powerful they are.

>>52916435
Ok but this is crossover. I'm assuming splat only and if you consider that True Fae are the nastiest things changeling can run into same as Elder vampire is the worst thing vampire can face in VtR. And for comparison sake all those high-enders are derived from base splat.

Compare to woof where you get Indigam, Spirits and Hosts all of with can grow to be stronger than any single werewolf and with werewolf cannot change into

I just think WoD's cosmology get's really interesting when you take all the freaky shit into account. In a way it reminds me of the early Dr Strange stuff, where there were all sorts of spirits and gods and various other related things all with weird agendas and stuff. But if I want to run a game like that I can only play mage. I don't dislike mage or anything, I just sort of wish there was more. Granted it looks like I can just go to other OPP games to scratch that itch before too long here

Oh, wow.

I was reading that Beast review because I was expecting it to be not much more than screeching about SJWs and progressivism, but jesus. Beast isn't just fucked conceptually, but actually mechanically as well. Beasts can basically fart out fresh WP points with ease and Family Ties is *ridiculously* powerful if you tie yourself to a full-on Brood.

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>>52915831
>>52915872
>Reclusive, freaky bat dude, lives in a huge stately mansion way the fuck out in the creepy wilderness? Fuck yeah. Though he's probably one of those Tzimisce elders who don't give two shits about the Sabbat.

Eeeeh... I'm not too sure about that. Sure, I could see him as a Tzimisce, but not as one of the Old Clan.

The main reason being that the Old Clan Tzimisce as a whole don't tend to care much for fleshcrafting (with some refusing to even learn or make use of it), and the ones that *do* bother using it tend to make only subtle and slight changes to themselves (eyes that blink vertically rather than horizontally for example), looking down on "monstrous" fleshcrafting as the work of adolescent amateurs.

Vorador's gray-green skin, bat ears, three clawed digits on each hands, face-tendrils/chin-horns and all that speak much more of a Sabbat-aligned Elder, rather than a Fleshcraft-hating Old Clan Elder.

>>52917745
There are cases of not Sabbat aligned Tzimisce who still use fleshcrafting and aren't Old Clan

>>52917776
Yeah, those are what I was thinking of, not Old Clan Tzimisce.

Seeing as how there was a little bit of fan splat stuff last thread I might as well ask, was there ever a version of genius updated for chronicles, or a not weak as hell version of princess?

So i'm trying to build a campaign of WtA that isn't around yiffing and ecoterrorism, but actually trying to do their job fighting the wyrm while defending against intrigues and some powerhungry fucks in the werewolf society

How do i do that?

Was thinking about starting with some shit like:

"The party is sent to help a Glasswalker, who is the head of a national R&D company, to run for Mayor. The other main candidate is a rich oil mines owner and a phylanthropist with ties to Pentex and loved by the people. Good luck"

>>52918338

How the fuck are you supposed to be a mayor when you have the curse?

>Changeling: The Lost 2nd Edition: While Lost doesn’t require enormous changes in mood, or rules, we want to give wider meanings to the PC’s time in captivity so that not every version is some sort of abuse (although that remains the compelling core metaphor) and to mesh the rules changes from Chronicles of Darkness 2nd Edition into Lost. Developer: Rose Bailey and Meghan Fitzgerald

This doesn't sound very promising to me, but who the fuck knows anymore, OPP has been all over the place.

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>>52918485
>mfw people are going to shit on them for whitewashing slavery or whatever

>>52918468
Homid Low-rage high willpower Theurge or Philodox?

>>52917558
Well, that just means that they come closer to matching mages, so it can't be that OP.

>>52918535
I didn't get the feeling from Hill that it was going to get a ham-handed Beast-esque poor metaphor for abuse and probably saying how its not abusive, but I feel like its almost a certainty now.

>>52918682
Honestly, I'd say that without Family Ties you're missing out on REAL mage supremacy. An extra +5 dice to cast any spell so long as it's helpful in some way to your "family".

maybe i just miss the bus, but did anyone notice beast is a ripoff of an as far as i know uncompleted fan game that was on /tg/ called leviathan the something. i read through the review that got posted and it reminds me of a shit version of the outline i remember.

>>52918863
Beast exists only to support Mage supremacy, anon.

We all know this.

>>52918863
>An extra +5 dice to cast any spell so long as it's helpful in some way to your "family".
Could be literally anything

>mage supremacy

>>52912097
>Have you ever played Requiem
no

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The old WoD ads that ran in Dragon were comfy af

I have never played Mage before, but I have played VtM, Hunter, Changeling and Scion. I've heard that a surprisingly effective build, due to how everything boils down to dice pools in one way or another, is to have 1 dot in every arcana to get the mage sight rote spells for each, so my character would be able to see magic but never risk paradox, then dump XP into Gnosis, because similar to Exalted, once your power stat is over 5, your attributes and skills can as well, so you could eventually have 10's in everything, every attribute, every skill. Does this actually work? Is it viable?

Could a Wyrd 10 Changeling reliably challenge a Gnosis 5 Acanthus Master?

>>52919262
You need 3 in mind and 3 in life, and then you can raise stats + skills above normal max without high gnosis just using some extra reach on spells.

>>52919262
Also mage sight is no longer a spell.

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>>52919493

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>>52915872
>Reclusive, freaky bat dude, lives in a huge stately mansion way the fuck out in the creepy wilderness?

>Kill The Batman

>>52912097
>Pic
Dresden files!?
>Thread
Aw...

>>52919262
paradox has got nothing to do with mage sight, having all arcana at 1 wont mean you never risk paradox,

its possible as a starting mage with life or mind 3 to increase any 1-2 stats/skills to 10 but will take at min 5-6 hour ritual casting and some willpower to relinquish spells, hence some prep

>>52919750
He might be referring to extended casting abuse back from 1e.

>>52919560
Wait, seriously? Fuck that.

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>>52915361
Govern is probably the quintessential Dom card. Deflection is also really good.

Pic related is my pick for Ani

FUCK
OFF
CARD-
-POSTERS

>>52919814
Suck my dick magefag

>>52919852
I will gladly suck your dick if you stop posting cards

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>>52919895
I'll post cards and you'll like it.
You can always whine about it more while stuffing your face full of cocks, I don't mind.

>>52919793
1 reach in honing the form and 1 mana = above max, same with augment mind.
taken as a rote with a decent rote skill you can get gnosis 3, mind 3, +6 from both yantras, +5 from extended time casting, + 3 willpower, 20 dice with 3 free reach to cover advanced duration, over max, multiple stats, and you can take a -18 penalty for +9 to a stat or split it, and have 2 dice chance..

having all arcana at 1 and mage sight in 1e didnt mean you never risked paradox either, i dont know where thats coming from..

>>52919750
No, I wasn't aware Mage got a second edition that fucked up all the fun parts. In 1e once you got Gnosis to 6 you could raise attributes and skills to the same level, permanently, just by spending XP.

>>52919960
You are a special kind of cunt, you know that?

>>52919973
>i dont know where thats coming from
It's less paradox rick, mostly I wanted to play a mage who, instead of casting spells, was strong enough to wrestle werewolves without needing to use magic, because he actually can't

>>52919995
You can still do that in 2e, gnosis 6 = max 6, gnosis 7 is max 7 if you spend the exp

its also not that fucked up, you have to split between potency and duration so +9 stat for 1 for an hour etc etc

2e isnt perfect but it solves 1e's stupid ritual casting, no more 111 dice to cast a spell bullshit

>>52920081
It's fucked up because in 1e you didn't need to cast a spell to do it.

>>52920110
You still dont if you have gnosis 6 you can raise your str to 6 but thats still a fuck ton of exp in both editions

and frankly a fucking waste of them

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>I'm rolling a female character
>She's a prostitute

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>>52920021
>3 of 103 posts are cardposts
>i'm somehow the cunt

Yeah okay, dude

>>52919732
damn that jawa is swole

>>52920134
So long as I can do it I still want to try. The ST has had a hardon for Ashwood Abbey as antagonists and wants a variety of supernaturals among the PCs, this felt like the best way to get a mage without overshadowing the rest of the group.

>>52920148
Three posts too many. You need to leave.

>>52920265

It's a general, Anon. VtES has as much a place as everything else WoD.

>>52920351
I thought this was the mage supremacy general?

>>52919739
Nigga you wanna talk Dresden Files then let's fucking talk Dresden Files. Not like anything else is really going on around here.

Why would a werewolf not be able to run as mayor of a city?

talking Glasswalker here, for simplicity.

>>52920482
>https://pastebin.com/7HiVphFm
he wont be able to pass a fire hydrant without pissing on it?

>>52920482
he wont be able to pass a fire hydrant without pissing on it

>>52920688
and why is that?

the curse is strong but nowhere in therulebooks i see something like this

>>52920378
>I thought this was the mage supremacy general?

It it, but Mage fans are so magnanimous that we don't mind sharing the thread.

>>52920726
its a fucking joke- and this is why werefags dont deserve to win any argument

>>52920482
Hunger for mage boipucci will overwhelm him which will result in lawnchairing

>>52920823
I'm not trying to win anything

It's just that it's my first time trying to set up a story with werewolf the apocalypse, bbut i don't want to make it too cliche with wicca ecoterrorism and gangbangs

>>52920482
>Why would a werewolf not be able to run as mayor of a city?
>talking Glasswalker here, for simplicity.

How would he possibly compete against the NWO Technocrat and elder vampire ghoul candidates?

>>52920891
and that's where the party comes in

I just need some ideas to how they can sabotage the other candidates campaigns, and stir some shit without being immediately destroyed

>>52919493
>Could a Wyrd 10 Changeling reliably challenge a Gnosis 5 Acanthus Master?

No

Lore of Bloodlines is out today, any good?

>>52919493
>Could X challenge a Mage/Master/Archmage
NO.
THE ANSWER IS ALWAYS NO.
I DON'T EVEN PLAY MAGE AND I KNOW THE ANSWER IS ALWAYS NO BECAUSE THEY WON'T SHUT THE FUCK UP.

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>>52920265
Have another :^)

>>52921929
I AM A MAGEFAG
HERE TO REMIND YOU THAT-
-MAGES WIN AT ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING

>>52922072
So they win at losing too?

>>52921929
Some things can. Nobody posts an interesting fight like a Loud Demon or a freshly awoken Mummy.

It's always 'HUR-DUR can a splat that has a ridiculously common and lethal bane fight against someone who can conjure shit ex nihilo'

>>52922134
Mage Demon & Mummy are the three strongest gamelines, I believe.

>>52922134
Bet you a mage couldn't beat divis mal

>>52922234
>not part of the world of darkness

Honestly don't care

>>52922234
Autis Mal is the true enemy of the Mage

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>>52922072
das rite Mages always win

>>52916139
>>52916274

The God-Machine, for instance, is part of the Pax.

The point they were trying to make is archmages altering the nature of an entire template, that some beings exist in the pax that prevent it. Sure, they might tweak one or two individuals for their own reasons, but they can't eliminate a splat without violating the pax.

>>52922407
You're quoting something entirely irrelevant to your post.

>>52922464

because something that represents the splats and doesn't want them gone is part of the pax.

>>52919739
I almost didn't recognize him without his trademark hat

>>52922564
Yes, which was entirely off-point to the above discussion.

>>52922596

I admit that, (arguably) True Fae aside, no god tier templates exist besides archies.But I am inferring that SOMETHING has their backs.

>>52922593
He only ever wears a hat once in the books, and it's a baseball cap. I have no clue why there are so many pictures and cosplayers of him with a cowboy hat because he never wears one.

>>52922652

There is a reason archmages don't bust up woof moots or vampire court by slapping the prince in the face with their magic dick while shouting "BIG GOOD HAPPY PENIS FUN TIME NOW!" beyond "they can't be bothered/"

>>52922652
The Gentry (True Fae) are their own sponsors, likewise for Luna and the Archmasters for themselves.
These beings can certainly interact with one another, but not without potentially antagonizing the Pax.

>>52922687
Wait, wait. I take it back. He wears a cowboy hat once, but it wasn't his and he only put it on to hide his face.

>>52922652
The True Fae weren't traditional Templates though, more so a mini-game akin to the Omen rules at the back of Imperial Mysteries.

>>52922687
>>52922724

the book covers. its a running gag

>>52923017
I always wondered why he had hats on the covers. Is it really just a joke?

>>52919212
>nerds would rather wank about mage supremacy instead of contemplating cuties like troll-chan and nocker-chan

>>52922072
Except their parents' love

>>52923038
That's what I hear

>>52923126
Would have worked better if anon had just said "win" instead of "win at".

>>52922133
Underrated Post.

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>>52919212
JGT is the most hit-or-miss artist in oWoD

>>52923173
Not really.

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>>52923195
He did give us that cool-as-fuck early WoD aesthetic and let's be honest. Leif Jones is WAY hit and missier.

JGT at least has a middle ground. Jones can't make that claim.

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So, I'm new to nWoD, but I'm (probably) going to be playing in an upcoming game about mortals and "lesser templates".
Stuff like psychics, fetches, proximi, skinchangers, wolf-blooded, and the like.

It's still early to be making a character, but I'm looking for inspiration and tips. I'm pretty clueless here.
Are there any of these templates that are especially interesting, any books in particular that I should be looking at?

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Why the fuck is Mage not a space game? A Cabal shortly after Character Creation could fucking leave the shit stain that is Earth and go explore the Universe.

>>52923360
I dunno man, some of his early stuff is really amateurish. He also went full animu with some of the WtA illustrations, which as we all know western artists should never go full animu.

Leif isn't without his stinkers but I think his stuff was more consistent style and professionalism wise.

The ten most cast Harry Potter spells converted to Mage arcana.

Accio (Telekinetically bring something to you)
Forces 3 + Space 2
'Telekinesis with possible sympathetic variant if it's not in sensory range'

Expecto Patronum (Summon guardian from your positive emotions)
Mind 3 + Spirit/Death 2
'Goetic summoning a materialized entity with a slight complication in that you need to be near a hallow to summon from your own Oneiros. You might be able to get around it with the 'astral adept' merit.'

Stupefy (Knocks the victim unconscious)
Life 2 or Mind 2
'Knocking someone out is a ruling effect for Life or Mind'

Expelliarmus (Disarms the target)
Technically there is no reason why 'accio' can't already do this. But if you just want to be a dick.
Matter 3
'Phase change all their weapons/armor/etc. into gas'

Lumos (creates light)
Forces 5
'Yes really they specifically mention they're creating light from nothing. Why they're chucking fireballs at each other instead of vaporizing city blocks with gamma bursts is anybodies guess'

Avada Kedava (Snuffs out the life of a victim)
Life 5
'Unmaking would do much the same'

Crucio (Inflicts unimaginable pain on the victim)
Mind 2 or Life 2
'Ruling magic to fire off pain receptors or make the target think they're in extreme pain'

Riddikulus (Makes a creature assume a form that is amusing to the caster)
'See expecto patronus+Arcana 4 to transform something into the Goetia'

Impendimentia (Slows the victim down)
Life 2 or Mind 2 or Space 1 or Time 1 or Forces 2 etc.
'Many many ways to skin this cat'

Muffliato (Caster can't be overheard)
Life 2 or Mind 2 or Forces 2 etc.
'Simple veiling spell'

>>52922134
>>52922225

Top Five Strongest Splats are probably Mage, Demon, Mummy, Beast and Geist. Probably in that order as well.

>>52923758
What do Geists do? What are their powers?

>>52923788
It's not so much what they can do as much as their sheer resilience.

>>52923788
>>52923809

Basically it's a mix of some extremely powerful choice abilities, how hard it is to permanently kill one and basically the lack of downsides that some splats come with.

I'm not sure if they are getting nerfed, buffed or staying around the same spot for 2e. But it was mentioned they are getting their powers tweaked to be more thematic and getting rid of the ones that didn't fit. Though it was mentioned there would be more of a feel of the dual presence a Sin-Eater has, so it's possible they might be getting a buff technically.

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>>52923788
Persona but ghosts

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>>52923466
Honestly that's how I used to imagine Mage but these threads have kinda ruined it for me

>>52923788
>>52923882

One example would be the Boneyard ability. Basically the player rolls to infuse his conscious and influence into an area. Primarily this would be use for something like making a spooky haunted house to drive away pesky teenagers.

However you get into something like the Pyre-Flame Boneyard and raise it up to it's 5-Dot Version.You get a bonus to activating the ability somewhere hot or that has fire around.

Now here is where the fun begins. The amount of successes you get on your dicepool in the 5-dot version, is the diameter of your boneyard...in MILES. You get 3 successes? Enjoy knowing what's going on within that influenced zone. (You usually have a pretty large dicepool to roll so there is a pretty good chance you'll have more than 3 successes)

It gets even better, while you are concentrating. You inflict a debuff on all enemies caught inside your boneyard. They take a penalty to just about all of their dicerolls, equal to your activation successes. Good luck fighting a Sin-Eater when all you have for anything is a chance die.

But of course it gets even better, because you can still act and move about while your boneyard is active, free to use other abilities, some even getting a bonus to die pool if it corresponds with your boneyard. This ability also comes with you being able to cause targets within your Boneyard to spontaneously combust, rolling a dicepool that they don't get defense against to deal lethal damage.

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>>52915361
I'm having trouble picking one for Protean though

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>>52915414
>dat POV scene in Strange Days

Hey /CofD/, so I'm in a game of Demon: the Descent and I'm trying to find out how to "cyanide pill" my character so the God-Machine doesn't pick up intel off me or my corpse and get the rest of the Ring.

What's the best method of erasing my ass from existence?

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>>52924110
>Good luck fighting a Sin-Eater

I see your Sin-Eater and raise you one Moros

>>52924301
Do you need to delete yourself or do you need a contingency in the event you get captured?

>>52924110
You're overestimating Boneyard. It's quite powerful (a bit of an understatement) but most of your examples are rather hard-specific to its type.

It was always one of the more 'fun' aspects of Geist, in my opinion. Shame the gameline itself never got a lot of the love it deserved, arguably less so than even Mummy.

>>52924495
Yeah I need a fail-safe in the event of being captured or very, very close to being captured like I am now. Like all espionage settings I need the classic cyanide capsule in a tooth or something similar.

>>52924301
Bolthole yourself and then die inside your bolthole. it should colapse on your ass

>>52924512
Even if it's not as strong as anon says that still sounds cool as fuck.

I'm going to go read Geist now.

>>52924568
If you want something a bit unorthodox. Go to the Underworld past a river into one of the deep domains the more old laws the better.

No angel will follow you there.

>>52924594
Yeah I've seen this in the description of the Self-Destruct. So it'll work even without that upgrade?

And are there any other options in the event that I am unable to access the bolthole or the bolthole has been compromised?

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>>52924651
Well that is a bit unorthodox. So how exactly do you find a way to the Underworld?

I mean besides getting lost on the way to the kitchen

>>52924680
'Easiest' way is to find an Avernian gate figure out a way to open it and just keep going.

There is an exploit that'll let you open gates but I haven't played Demon in a while so I don't remember the details.

Another option is to travel into the shadow to a location that strongly resonates with death. Occasionally you'll find a cavern that leads into the underworld.

>>52924756
Another option is to find a Master of Death and have them open a gate for you, but it's hard to say how viable that really is.

>>52924653
Bolthole from what i remember is tied to your demon so it should get deleted eith everything that is inside when he dies.

Outside of that maybe you can use combust to turn yourself into pile of molten slag when they catch you. Can't get intel out of that

>>52924812
Masters of Death can tear open and create gates to the Underworld, each being a separate method. The former not requiring Mastery.

>>52924756
>>52924812
>>52924843
Well at least I've got some options, I'll see if I can successfully off myself and save the party at the end of the week. Thanks anons

>>52912097
>>52919739

Same. Was like 'Wtf is dresden files doing in WoD'?

Pretty sure that shit's FATE.

>>52924886
We're always happy to help you figure out different ways to kill yourself anon.

>>52924886
Don't you have any escape chance mate?

Write a one sentence description of the End Times for Genius.

Hard Difficulty: Make the theme Pyrrhic Victory.
Extra Hard Difficulty: Don't include the Needle Grail.

>>52924935
Don't know much about genious but one thing springs to mind
THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN

So, the rules are very non-specific about how Vampires make ghouls. Assuming that my character gets slipped vitae somehow, do I have any means of resisting myself being ghouled? I mean, as it stands it seems as though my only recourse would be draining the vampire of willpower pre-emptively.

And no, I'm not setting out to drink vampires for shiggles, fun as it is, I'm just a mortal with a vamp on their tail who would really like to acquire my services, and I would prefer not to end up with a minor template that fucks me up the ass.

>>52924974
Let's hack the God Machine! What could go wrong?

The Dawn Machine is not what Lemuria wanted. A broken thing, it disorders.

The urchins and beggars will climb the rooftops and sing the song of the dead Storm God.

Jack and Jack and Jack and friends bound in a haze of lacerations and desperate cries.

The Calendar Council prepares to Liberate night, and destroy light and law forever more.

The Bohemians and Genteel Society close the shutters to the noise, filling throats with red honey.

The Masters abandon subtlety, opening vaults of mysteries to combat the chaos.

The Bazaar, untended, drowns the streets with tears of lethal sorrow.

The Dock workers and Zailors flee, sighting trails and sails from the across the Zee.

Her Majesty's Finest and Mother Church ally with glassborne serpents for a last charge into Hell.

Cities will be Judged.

A thousand thousand lives will scream a thousand thousand agonies miles beneath the Surface.

All this and more before the darkness ends.

But still... Inspiration shines.

>>52924924
My character got himself Flagged in broad daylight trying to run away from a losing battle while fully transformed. I have only one Cover, and it's a very unstable one at that.
While I could get my Ring to heal me at my bolthole my character would rather not put them at undue risk and I've been roleplaying him as the dedicated KGB agent kind of espionage stereotype. I COULD try to make a really, really quick soul pact with some schmuck while bleeding to death but it I'm under the impression that I have little time to work with. Therefor, suicide as the first option.

>>52925089
Ech sunless sea is great for horror descriptions. Love it

>>52924886
Always happy to help a dishonored soul commit sudoku.

>>52925089
Gives me a vague Changeling the lost kind of feel

>>52925092
I mean, I'm surprised that as a demon you would put self-sacrifice on the table. I can understand your angle though.

>>52925212
That was from this: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1qb0_OLhDrDVjB5N1VwdWViUUE/view .

>>52925366
It's one of the things I haven't seen in a game that supposedly plays like a spy thriller. Where are all the agents who are willing to lay down everything on the line? To make the ultimate sacrifice for their country? (Or in this case the Ring)

I think people get too attached to the character and play to further their own interests instead of to the character's ideals and the continued survival of the group. I guess there are double agents and sellouts in every spy setting, but man are there a lot of folks willing to drop a dime on their erstwhile companions.

>>52925320
The great clocktower begins to sound. Once, twice and so on.

You’ve made it. Ten years and you’re still here. Ten years and London’s still here.

Impossibly, yet expectantly, Mr Apples is there on your doorstep, a fruit selection basket in one,

uh, hand and a bottle of his finest in his other.

He unceremoniously deposits himself in your best seat, setting the basket down gently.

"Ten years, delicious friend, and how do you do?"

>>52925473
For Saboteurs and Inquisitors I would say self sacrifice is in theme. Because GM can stick itself. You are not going back.

>>52925414
Fuck man I love this. Stuff for every game line. Mage

Well, that was odd.

After the Masters have left to give you privacy, you begin to leave, only to notice another presence.

Why, it's another Master! Who could this be-
Cloaked in purest white and dripping ... water?

...Something’s wrong. While the others had a presence and a sensation of reality

This is an absence. You are facing nothing. Hearing nothing. Nothing is introducing themselves.

They need no introduction. It’s best to forget them.

"My former associates offered you power for prosperity. I offer the reverse. Choose carefully, for

these burdens will last you your entire stay"

>>52925030
Nah you're pretty much fucked if you drink any of that shit. The book straight up says mortals have no defense from the effects of blood bond. Normal vampires get to roll Blood Potency after spending willpower.

So just walk around with a flask or canteen and never drink anything you didn't make yourself. And try not to get force-fed if they're that desperate.

>>52923502
>>52923466
Why stop at mundane space? I was always too intimidated by the Mage cosmology to actually run a game myself. It seemed to me that Mages are almost expected to go exploring the hights and depths of the CofD multiverse, rather than peter around a single city like many other splats.

>>52918485

Rose and her team is gutting it. They're only using 30% of Hill's work.

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>>52921961
dem+chim combo is nice. Sensory dep, mind of a killer and pic.

>>52924112
claws? skin of marble? earth meld? form of mist?

>>52921337
Yeah, it's pretty nice. Once again, the art (as with Lore of the Clans) is "okay" at best and "ugh" at worst...

But as for the lore and combo disciplines, merits and all that stuff? Yeah, s'pretty good. Pick it up (or grab it from the mega) if you're interested in VtM for sure.

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Which of the Traditions in Ascension would be considered the strongest?

Is there a canon hierarchy?

>>52927417

From someone who's only really read about the technocracy, the Euthanatoi and Order of Hermes are probably the strongest, with stuff like the Verbena, Celestial Chorus, and Akasahics in the upper middle, and the Cult of Ecstasy at the least powerful.

>>52927417
The Order of Hermes is quite evidently the single most influential conclave of wizards in the world.
They're also explicitly the greatest in accomplishments, having defined the Spheres as a whole and producing the most Archmages in history.

Under them would be the Akashic Brotherhood. You can start guessing from there.

>>52927417

Virtual Adepts. The Paradigm supports them, they can turn the technocracy's tools against them.

>>52928157
I'd actually consider both ex-Union Traditions to be among the weakest, to be honest.
It's also rather canon that the Hermetics hold top spot.

>>52928213

Oh? Why do you consider them weak?

>>52928231
They're not weak per se, rather weak in comparison to the rest.

Ok tell a guy who never played Mage why are mages considered overpowered and how can you defeat them?

>>52928363
>how can you defeat them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayLOmEgPQt8

>>52928500
One doesn't just surprise a mage though.

>>52928363
Catch them off guard. Never let them see you. Con some garou into fighting them. Or worse comes to worse, get another mage.

Metawise. Assuming the mage is an npc controlled by the storyteller, he will eventually die to something

>>52928363
>how are they overpowered?
Its less overpower and more that the player base keep forgetting that a werewolf can still be a werewolf if people see him but don't believe in werewolves, a mage will explode if people don't believe in him.

>>52928500
>>52928608
>>52928709

But how can you surprise a mage?

>A mage will explode if people don't believe in him
Please Elaborate

Is this some kind of all-round concept? i mean, if a mage gets shamed and people stop believing in what he says and does, will he explode?

>>52928961
>Please Elaborate
A broad sweeping statement.
Paradox dictates if a mage uses magic that could be witnessed by normies and it can't be logicked out by a rational answer reality will throw it back in the mages face as some form of ironic punishment.

>>52928961
How do you surprise a human? Basically if you wanna kill a mage find out his mundane life. Watch him until you get his routine and then use sniper rifle or a bomb.

>>52929027
You mean that if a mage casts some kind of magic and someone records it without him knowing and he shows it to the people the Mage's head will explode?

>>52912256
>Masters are vanishingly rare for a reason.

Are they? Considering you dont need anyone to teach you to raise your path arcanum and you start at 3 from chargen i though masters are fairly common, master of 3+ arcanum very rare and archmaster are the 0.00001 %

>>52924512
>>52924619

Oh yeah I by no means hate Geist or the powers. It's my favorite gameline and using Boneyard was always fun. Just pointing out some of their stronger abilities. Never got to look at the 1.1 update they did for it. I guess they nerfed Boneyard so you have to roll your dice versus a target's Stamina.

Another fun ability is the Industrial Marionette and manipulating and telekinesising up to size 25 objects.

At least Geist 2e seems like it's going to give the gameline the love it deserves, since the Dev has supplements planned for it.

>>52914127
>FFG would have ended up with the rights.

Oh anon that alternate future is so beautiful. Maybe if dracula tanks ww so hard and they close opp in a misguided attemp to combat their competitors ffg could swep in.

>>52924110
I once put a 6 dot sin-eater as the head of the local TF: Valkyrie contingent in a W:tF game I ran.
Eventually, after the group went too loud, too often, he and a group of trusty "men" went to go deal with them. The pack felt disinclined to cooperate.
So, after brawling their way through the men (androids) armed with smgs with silver rounds, they come upon Mr. Black, and it was a goddamn fight, probably the best slugfest I've seen in a WoD game. Boneyard was crucial to keep them from just swamping him, and it escalated to all of them going full wolfman and turning into a whirlwind frenzy of fang, claw, klave and relic blade.
Had I not made so many homebrew buffs for W:tF1e, they would have been rekt'd from the word go

>>52918485
That's the same description they had since Changeling 2e was announced. They just edited out Hill's name for Rose and Meghan.

Anybody got the pyramid meme with Mage the Ascension at the top?

>>52926580
You can and should. Your starting city is still your 'home' both in a mystical sense since it houses the central Mystery your character is interested in and a mundane sense since Mages are still mostly human you have sleeper family and friends you'd want to keep an eye on.

>>52929987

Astronauts have family too, but they still go to space.

>>52930059
True, but astronaut families know they're going to outer space. Nobody expects that 'Uncle Eddy' is actually fighting golems on Olympus Mons on his way to infiltrate a secret Wizard Naxi base when he's out of town on a business trip for his scrapyard.

http://theonyxpath.com/revising-endowments-hunter-the-vigil/

>>52923466
Because Space magic is constrained by the Lunar Sphere - like other supernaturals, Mages are restricted to earth (at least within the Material).

If you want to explore space, you're pretty much stuck doing it Astrally, by traveling through the Whirl

>>52929987
My favorite thing to do is to have a cabal do a lot of exploring in the various parts of the Tellurian (the Shadow, the Underworld, the Astral, etc.) but have them focus on the parts of them related to their "home" in the Material. Like in my current game, the Cabal is located in small-town Appalachia, so they're going to be exploring the Appalachian Shadow, the Astral realms of mountain folklore, the Underworld Domain of Miners who died deep underground... lots of ways to have your characters explore a lot while staying thematically tied to a particular place.

>>52918338
There can also be a major corporation that is or isn't Pentex seeking to buy up land and bring jobs to the town but have been involved in major eco disasters or evil corporate schemes before (like Enron).

The Pentex candidate could either hate them for encroaching or support them for their Wyrm feeding. I see a three way war, two mega corps and their (some fomori, some worse than that) mercenaries vs Garou. Meanwhile, the Glass Walker candidate is struggling to hide his Rage and predatory instinct. He also lets the tension and power go to his head and there is a power struggle among his sept.

It'd be like that video game Syndicate meets House of Cards meets The Howling. I support.

>>52930555

Necessary lies. You know "do not expose sleepers to the mysteries" and all that.

>>52931262
These seem like they could be pretty cool honestly. Opens up the sort of things you can do with endowments more which is nice.

>>52931439

That was in 1e. Even then, I recall a game where we managed to do it from the shadow.

Which is great, because I've always loathed the Astral Plane.

>>52931439
>Because Space magic is constrained by the Lunar Sphere - like other supernaturals, Mages are restricted to earth (at least within the Material).

Not in 2e if you can find a sympathetic connection you can travel wherever you want.

>>52923038
Yeah. The character makes multiple mentions to not liking hats. The guy who does the book art makes the hats larger and more ostentatious intentionally.

>>52931470
I am not really apt with the political structure of the US can a mayor (or wannabe so) still hold a significant role in a private corporation?

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>>52919814
I came here to smug at you.

>>52929049
Yes this is definitely a good method, because Shielding, Time, Fate, Wards, and bound ghosts/spirits are not common methods of defense for any Mage worth a damn.

>>52929233
No. Paradox is basically a push back of a spell if you fuck it up somehow. I don't think Paradox will occur once the spell is over. Plus, Paradox isn't that extreme. Most times a Mage will just opt to contain it and take some light damage.

>>52932311
Could you bind or trick the ghosts against him, or just come out of the umbra and slice him?

>>52932373
so Paradox only happens with spells prolonged in time, and not in the immediate?

What would happen if a Mage was to cast a classic fireball a la d&d but a bunch of hobos saw him?

>>52931470

So what about the NWO's candidate? I understand the NWO have a large role in Project: Invictus and might deliberately sabotage the Pentex Candidate as much as if not more than the Walker candidate.

Woofs may be deviants, but they're not subverting the union from within like Pentex.

>>52919960
>Blanketing precious text space in useless "his or her" "he or she" language.

C'mon man, this is amateur hour.

>>52932463
>>52931470

This are both great suggestions

I don't really know squat about mage, but i searched the NWO and holy shit this guys are basically the weaver made manifest what the hell

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>>52929785
Found it

>>52932199
The president sure can apparently. There may be rules against it but its certainly not police or anything short of a giant expensive lawsuit enforcing said laws.

>>52928363
Destroy the foundation upon which they base their work. Then gut them and watch them bleed out. Viskr Faction Ananasi (essentially, wizardly werespiders who have some capability to control reality) have perhaps the easiest time accomplishing this, since they can summon paradox-spirits with the snap of a finger.

>>52932420
Paradox would happen. Paradox happens when a normie sees you casting or you Reach too far to enhance your spell. But once the spell is gone, I don't think there would be a chance for Paradox.

>>52932399
It's possible, but if a Mage has a bound ghost then he's either forcing it into submission or has offered it a good deal, so you'd have to get around that somehow. It's also not likely to be the only defense his Sanctum has, because a Cabal usually has a decent spread of Arcana to work with.

As for stalking him through the Shadow, I don't really know.

>>52932662
Well shit this is useful too for >>52918338

Wasn't really thinking about having them interact with other Fera, but i can sqeeze them in i guess

>>52932420
I think you maybe confusing paradox and dissonance.

Before you make a spell roll the GM makes a Paradox roll. The dice pool/dice trick is determined by your Gnosis, Reach on the spell, Mana spent, certain Yantras, and/or sleeper witnesses to obvious magic.

You declare whether you want to contain paradox or not. Every success on the Paradox roll subtracts from the Spell dice pool and gives the GM reach to alter the spell with paradox anomalies at their discretion.

If you choose to release the paradox. You roll the reduced dice pool and suffer a condition if you roll a dramatic failure or if the paradox roll is an exceptional success.

If you elected to contain the spell you roll a dice poll determined by your wisdom. Every success will deal a resistant point of bashing damage. If you contain the Paradox the Spell dice pool will not be penalized and the spell will not suffer an anomaly. You will suffer a paradox condition equal to the remaining number of success in the paradox pool however.

Dissonance is the phenomena of sleepers unraveling obvious magic. This is only meaningful for a spell that lasts for a scene or longer. You roll the witnesses Integrity dice poll with the spells primary factor as the withstand. Reducing primary factor by successes. So a single witness might stare at an obvious spell and not effect it for several days during their descent into madness while a crowd might evaporate it during a single turn.
.

What good excuse could I use to justify an entire net of Shadow Spirits able to spy on everyone as a Fostern Shadow Lord?

oWoD question

I need a reason why a toreador would be given the status 'Merciful'

>>52932199

Whether publicly or not, all politicians suck dick for money.

>>52932558
Garou vs Wyrm force vs Weaver force
Enemy of my enemy is my friend

I can see the boardroom discussions between these factions being fun to play out.

>>52933727
I'll consider it very much. Probably will be a bit more advanced mission, but it's building pretty good

>>52933316
Big Brother to control the Bawn

>>52933646
"You're too beautiful to die"

>>52933646
Life is a work of art, mang.

I always wondered why Mage specifically was the splat made to shit on all other splats in both lines.

With CofD I imagine it was sheer inertia, but what happened with WoD

>>52934339
Wizards should be more powerful than vampires, werewolves and fairies. I don't know, it just makes sense to me really.

>>52934339
>>52934400
Well, as long as they don't go to Vancouver, anyway.

Critique my cross-splat campaign idea.

Pangea, Atlantis, all the prehistorical paradises, are one and the same, and describe the same time in history, when God was active in the world. But Lucifer in his jealousy stole a portion of the Divine Fie, the force of Creation, and crippled God. This caused the spirit and physical worlds to separate, and sunk Atlantis. It allowed vampires to exist, the Abyss, every evil on Earth. Without the completed Fire, God can't act directly. Eventually, the stolen Fire, now called the Pyros, was used to create Prometheans. This is why the universe hates them, reality itself is aware of why they exist.

Eventually, a group of repentant demons are trying to repair what was done. They create a machine to draw in Prometheans from all over the world into one place, so they can all be killed and the Pyros released. They hope that if they get them all, God will be healed, divine intervention can once again help humanity, and they will be forgiven. But most demons would not agree to this idea, so the machine had to be built in a place they could defend. And they chose Manhattan. But this many Prometheans has caused extreme Disquiet, and the locals have noticed, and are investigating.

>>52934991
>God

I stopped reading there

>>52932199
>an a mayor (or wannabe so) still hold a significant role in a private corporation?

The job of mayor is a full time position in most cities, and state ethics and conflict of interest rules would prevent such an individual from holding a significant role in a private commercial corporation. Additionally, stock and other securities in such corporations would likely need to be placed in a blind trust during the course of the mayor's tenure.

The position of mayor is part-time in the majority of much smaller towns across the USA, and it is commonplace for mayors to maintain separate employment (the actual day-to-day running of the town is often conducted by a hired city or town manager). However, even while maintaining independent employment, the mayor would still be bound by conflict of interest rules.

>>52934991
Doesn't make any sense whatsoever if we go by published lore regarding the various gamelines.

>>52935049
Why?

>>52935088
Why not? It doesn't conflict with any of the established lore, it just says none of them have the whole story.

>>52935113
>>52935092
>God
Doesn't exist in CofD, with the Principal being a possible exception
>Atlantis
Went down due to cataclysmic infighting among the world's most powerful wizards, vying for control of the Supernal. It was promptly erased, sinking only in metaphor.
>Abyss
A by-product of power hungry wizard lords.
>God-Machine
Could have been created by an Alienated Archmage, possibly being thrown down by the wizard lords in the ancient past.
>Demons
There is a big difference between the demons of Inferno and the ones manufactured by the God-Machine

>>52935183
>God doesn't exist
If demons and angels exist (re, Knight of St Adrian) then God must as well.
>Atlantis
This doesn't conflict with that, only places it at the same time in history as Father Wolf.
>Abyss
Again, no conflict, only a reason why God hasn't dealt with it.
>God-Machine
I dislike that lore, so I ignore it.
>God-Machine again
Rule 0, I don't have to give a shit about lore I don't like. Again again, it still doesn't conflict this anyway, I don't have to say this group is that kind of demon.

>>52935239
Its lack of tying into the lore, no matter how you excuse it, is why said anon found it uninteresting. I'm inclined to agree.
Tying Pangea into something that never happened also ruins the backstory in its own ways.

>>52935276
I'm not tying Pangea into anything.

>>52935239
>If demons and angels exist (re, Knight of St Adrian) then God must as well.
I would prefer it if you weren't this retarded.

>everything else
You seem to be going by head-canon rather than actual published canon and the lore that it entails, which is why your conceived setting doesn't make sense.

CofD is a sandbox however, so go for it.

>>52935284
>"Pangea, Atlantis, all the prehistorical paradises, are one and the same, and describe the same time in history, when God was active in the world"

You kinda were, along with the added God schtick.

>>52935337
No, that's just a place in the time line.

>>52935289
>retarded
Logical inference is retarded now?

>head canon
Every ST does this to one degree or another, friendo.

>>52935360
>>head canon
>Every ST does this to one degree or another, friendo.
Yes, and every time its brought up on this general it is highly criticized, as you are being.

>>52931262
After going back through the old hunter books of various strips, I have to say I like this system alot. So far I could rebuild just about every endowment I've come across through this, it solves the problem of all hunters needing ridiculous willpower to work, and it makes it way easier to port in new endowments rather than just spit balling and hoping whatever you make is in line with published stuff.
Gotta say I'm surprised. I was expecting hunter 2e to just be hunter with a new coat of paint, but it looks like some sort of actual changes are happening. Now fingers crossed I can try and make old hunter again with this.

>>52935360
>No, that's just a place in the time line.
You literally tried correlating the respective downfall of Atlantis to a completely different splat.

>Logical inference is retarded now?
Not sure how the existence of demons correlates to the existence of God when their existence already doesn't, according to the actual damn setting. This shouldn't be difficult to understand.

>Every ST does this to one degree or another, friendo.
I thought this would have been fairly evident to begin with, discrediting the need to use it as a backup statement. But oh well.

>>52935378
>as you are being
For no reason that can be adequately explained. Even if I did want to include the God-Machine, all I need is one sentence. "This is a flawed system put in place to keep the world turning in God's absence." Done. Zero conflict with the lore.

>>52935401
>downfall of Atlantis
Nnno. I never suggested Atlantis' fall was related.

>How demons correlate to God
Demons are fallen angels, by definition. Can't have angels without God.

>>52935427
>Zero conflict with the lore.
Your idea of conflict eludes me entirely.

>"This is a flawed system put in place to keep the world turning in God's absence."
Cool idea regardless

>>52935427
The problem is your text is worded as if you think what you described is actually cannon, and your backing up it of that seems to sustain that notion.

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>>52935183
>>52935276
>>52935289
>>52935378
>>52935401
>CofD is soooooooo much better than WoD, it has no metaplot and you can do whatever you want with the lore!
>REEEEEEEEEE WHY AREN'T YOU FOLLOWING THE COFD LORE

What did CofDrones mean by this?

>>52935454
>Nnno. I never suggested Atlantis' fall was related.
>"This caused the spirit and physical worlds to separate, and sunk Atlantis. It allowed vampires to exist, the Abyss, every evil on Earth."
Mhmm, whatever you say.

>Demons are fallen angels, by definition. Can't have angels without God.
Sorry, you don't speak for the vast majority of the writers here, buddy. Your definition of angelic entities does not correspond to the masses.

>>52935484
>Your definition of angelic entities does not correspond to the masses.
Or the books!

>>52935455
>idea of conflict
I mean, I can use all the God-Machine stuff as is, all I need to do is have an explanation ready for it's origin that doesn't contradict anything in the book about it. Hell, I can even say angels designed the Machine, but demons who want to keep the Pyros on Earth have corrupted it and taken over it's function to keep things they way they want them.

>>52935482
i bet 99% of the players wont give a shit about the lore anyways

>>52935482
Not in the argument, but I'm more annoyed by the insistence of angels and God not being mutually exclusive, which isn't the case here.

God doesn't exist in CofD, he's probably thinking of OWoD.

>>52935501
as long as you don't try to tell them what the books say incorrectly.

>>52935394
Oh, and as just an after thought, this will make it easier to re create some other conspiracy from one of the add on books, since core is likely to focus on just the main ones so to speak.

>>52935501
>God doesn't exist in CofD, he's probably thinking of OWoD.

Even in the Classic World of Darkness, God might not be the apex deity according to the Mage & Werewolf cosmologies, which are heavily linked.

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>"Some Euthanatoi have wondered if Oblivion itself is an aspect of an Exemplar of Forces. Could it be that every force is just an emanation of the will of some ancient mage who imagined the cosmos into being?"

What is God really?

What are Hunter the Reckoning's messengers, anybody ever explained it?

>>52935686
oWoD lore being as fucked as it was, they were either like kinda sorta angel things or else something from exalted after the fall.

>>52935686
Weren't they Solars from exalted?

>>52935658
>Forces 9

I find it funny that the most powerful ability in the World of Darkness is also the most balanced of the Arch-Spheres.

>>52935722
How is turning the universe inside out considered balanced? It's beyond game breaking if you lace it with other spheres.

>>52935710
>>52935718
Wait Exalted is linked with WoD?

>>52935658
I get angry every single time I look at that

The Ascension writers loved to shit on everybody else

>>52935891
I bet you're just a vampfaggot pissed that the antes can't do anything like that. Go suck Caine dick.

When did the art start getting so bad in nWoD? Even the cWoD stuff looks like the same generic stuff. I can't pinpoint it.

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>>52935973
Like this. It just looks so fake and terrible. What happened?

>>52935992
They started using photo-shopped models instead of art. God knows why. Probably cheaper.

Why do you assholes keep bringing up Caine vs Archmage shit

Do you hold grudges?

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>>52935973
Why is this guy prancing in the background? It's lazy. I have no idea what's happening in this scene.

>>52936009
It seems like they've specifically done that for the VtR second edition.

>>52934991

Too much like Demon:The Fallen

>>52935836
No. It /was/ early in oWoD, but both wod and exalted have dropped that angle since

>>52935183
>Went down due to cataclysmic infighting among the world's most powerful wizards, vying for control of the Supernal. It was promptly erased, sinking only in metaphor.
Was it? Or is that what the demon-controlled God-Machine wants Mages to think, to keep them from interfering?

>>52935520
>God doesn't exist in CofD
Where does it say that? And how do you know it's true? What if the devil's greatest trick wasn't making the world think he wasn't real, but creating a ruse to keep mortals turned away from the truth?

>>52936166
Possibly. The God-Machine could have been created by an Archmage for all we know, which is even heavily suggested.

>>52936132
Which is a shame, I really liked that idea.

>>52936212
Or there are no Exarchs at all, only stories created by the Machine to give mages, the most powerful beings in the world, a false trail to follow.

>>52936234
The Exarchs explicitly exist though. I'm just going by the gaps here, the stuff we have no actual explanation for.

>>52936195
It's more so that there is no canon instance of God currently. The Principal would be the closest thing we have.

why Arch Masters/Mages are so useless?
>As PC they are basically unplayable and boring
>As Enemy NPC they are completely idiotic because they could just kill you/resurrect you into a lovely THICC girl that's completely into them/make the entire world forget about you/make you think that you are a chicken if you try to screw with them, or try to role your way out of it like in all other games they can just see your true intent
>As helping NPC they are basically walking Deus Ex Machina that can resolve everything in a whim.
>They can do whatever the fuck they want, paradox excluded, so if they are GM controller they are just poor plot devices because they can just cheat it with narrative and what's not.

>>52936234
The Exarchs are very real, and they're also key to the God-Machines existence as a whole. Them being the symbols of its functions and all.

>>52936250
>The Exarchs explicitly exist though
According to what, stories told to young mages by their teachers? Who says they even know the truth in the first place?

>No canon instance of God
Gonna need a page number for that.

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>>52936294
>someone being this retarded

>>52936294
>he Exarchs explicitly exist though
>According to what

The Exarchs communicate with their Seer Prelates and they send Ochemata into the Fallen World.

The existence of the Exarchs is a not a mystery. What is unknown is whether the Exarchs were ever originally human.

>>52935454
The "God" to the Angels and Demons of CofD is the God-Machine, not the Judeo-Christian god.

Plus crossover games are an inherently awful idea.

>>52936350
>What is unknown is whether the Exarchs were ever originally human.

I tend to prefer the notion that they were formerly human, as I did enjoy the Atlantean theme of first edition. Hubris included.

>>52936234
So what would Ochema be then?

>>52936294
>can you prove that x exists?
>can you disprove that x exists?
Pick one, please.

>>52936350
Do they? Or are the Seers the unwitting tools of the Machine? It could do a lot worse than mages to work it's will.

>>52936373
In the campaign I described, the Machine isn't God, it's a mechanism used to fill God's function while He was incapacitated, but was corrupted and taken over by demons.

>>52936401
Matrix Agents, a means through which the Machine affects the world, no different that a user interface.

>>52936401
>So what would Ochema be then?

Ochemata are "sub souls" that can be created with the Imperial Practice of Dominions. They are descried in Imperial Mysteries (and DaveB indicated they'll be in Signs of Sorcery).

>>52936467
>Do they? Or are the Seers the unwitting tools of the Machine? It could do a lot worse than mages to work it's will.

You need to read Imperial Mysteries. If anything, the GM is a fallen supernal god trying to return home.

You might also be interested in the Demon Storyteller's Guide. It has a lot of great crossover information on mages and demons.

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>>52935520
>God doesn't exist in CofD
Unless the ST decides he does.
Or the ST is using the WoD translation guides.
You're acting like a 3.PF babby. Maybe you should stop being autistic.

>>52936467
>It could do a lot worse than mages to work it's will.
lolno

The God-Machine is constantly In the process of upkeep, always supporting itself as an occult engine. The Exarchs already won, period. Their existence determines how the God-Machine even functions, first off.

>>52936522

>>52936505
Why do people get even more autistic when they are told their head cannon isn't whats in the books than the people who get mad that they claim it is.

>>52936505
You're insufferable.

>>52936499
I will check those out. To the pastebin!

>>52936520
>The Exarchs won, they control the machine
Page number, citation, etc.

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>>52936542

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>>52936542
>>52936571

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>>52936542
>>52936571
>>52936584

>>52936467
>In the campaign I described, the Machine isn't God, it's a mechanism used to fill God's function while He was incapacitated, but was corrupted and taken over by demons.
Dumb and gay.

>Matrix Agents, a means through which the Machine affects the world, no different that a user interface.
I thought the Angels were the Agents? And how can you spin these Agents being absurdly powerful and having command of the Arcana?

>>52936571
>>52936584
>>52936599
>inb4 muh death of the author