So, the new statlines are out. Vehicles now have wounds. h

I'm sad initiative is gone but I guess we still have to wait and see how that plays into the mechanics. I'm strangely okay with the new wounds on vehicles thing because given that they suggest that Imperial Knights have dozens then we won't see vehicles go down to massed small arms fire that easily.

>>52894585

As a SOB player I do like the implication that my meltaguns will rip through like d6 wounds or something.

>>52894605
Yeah that'd make sense, I was apprehensive at first but I hadn't really considered vehicles getting saves. On another note as a DA player, the fact that terminators are now 2 wounds is great, I can only hope they're back to saves on 2d6 and then I can make my Deathwing relevant again.

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>>52894419
>Terminators are finally W2
Fucking
Thank
God>>52894585

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>>52894725
>still only t4
So close
And yet so far

>>52894747
needed to be 3 wounds or t5

>>52894660

As a SOB player, the whole 'Multiple wounds on anti-tank weapons' is kinda huge for me. As well...loads of meltaguns to go about and multi-wound guys who can't be killed by Str 8 forcing instant death are generally a damn pain.

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>>52894747
Deathwing knights get T5 through fortress of shields

>>52894419
It looks like they cribbed a lot from KoW.

Makes me wonder if they're just going to replace "Instant death" with multi wound weapons.

>>52894660
My guess is they won't be much better. Anything that beats 2+ probably does multiple wounds.

Oh boy... Keeping track of two dozen wounds is way easier than keeping track of three... I love the new simpler less bloated rules...

>>52894585
They sort of had wounds already, in Hull points.
Now they basically just committed to removing AV which was a cool, but kind of burdensome rule.

>>52894419
>I'm strangely okay with the new wounds on vehicles thing

The problem is going to be keeping track of it all. I'm not looking forwards to having to track damage on seven 8-10 wound vehicles at once.

>tactical dreadnaught armor
>2+
>actual dreadnaught armor
>3+

>>52894848
It is easier. People were using dice to mark hull points already.

Now you, presumably, don't have to remember stunned/shaken/immobilized rules.

>>52894877
>tactical dreadnaught armor
>T4 2 wounds
>actual dreadnaught armor
>T7 8 wounds

My body (and bawkses) are ready

>>52894895
So, what, now you use 6 dice to Mark health? Use a handy dandy health bar? Low values were important because large numbers are hard to keep track of in the imagination!

>>52894895
>People were using dice to mark hull points already.

Which works well enough if they can be recorded on a single D6, but farting around with larger D10/D20's, or stacks of D6's, is going to be a real pain.

>>52895007

>picking up a d20 and putting it down on a different number sure is gonna hard

Are you literally stupid?

>>52894605
>>52894783

[Spoiler]Viable penitent engines[/spoiler]

>>52895007
>Confirmed for never playing a game that uses anything but D6's
Normie

>>52894989
>>52895007
I was already using 2 dice, one for hit points and one to mark shaken/stunned/immobilied results.
If they have 12+ wounds it might get a bit annoying. But then I probably deserve it for playing Lords of War and shit.

>>52895116
Muh dick

New GW is actually good

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I play combined arms IG. This is making me worry. I've survived since 3rd ed. 8th is the only one that's ever got me nervous.

>>52895068
And what if it has more than 20? And what about people who don't have d20? You're going to make them go out and buy an unofficial dice just for counting wounds?

>>52895317
Have fun with those LD6 guardsmen.

>>52895007
The fuck? 2d6 is not difficult.

>>52895197
Dreadnaught have 8. It's not unreasonable to think actual tanks will have 12+.
The fact of the matter is that you can make all kinds of excuses but this is a serious oversight in a system that is meant to cut down on bloat.

>>52894989
>>52895007


Could always go the MTG rout for player health, keep a start card handy for each large units and move a marker down as necessary. This could also be made up to include the rules for the death spiral that big units now suffer

>>52894419
>changing BS to #+ instead of ((7-TN)/6)
Thank God

>>52895404
Casualisation.

>>52895390
>more cards
>cards for every unit
Even worse
On a personal level I doubt I will have a huge problem with it, maybe a slight inconvenience, but I'm playing devil's advocate here.

>>52895404
What about my sweet BS of 6 or higher?

>>52895468
and by it I mean huge woundpools, cards are stupid, sorry

>>52895349
Commissars dude. I already got that covered. Also Ld. 6?!? The fuck. These aren't conscripts.

>>52895375
Didn't they have 3 Hull points previously? I don't think actual tanks, except maybe Landraiders will have 12 or more.

Still it might be fun to model some groves in monsterous creature's bases for all the dice they'll need.

>>52895493
Marines are LD7 now.

>>52895480
Presumably just shown as 2+/4+ instead of BS 8.

>>52895340
>unofficial dice

>>52895493
If marines are LD7, guard will be at least LD6.

>tfw LD5 conscripts

>>52895509
Just saw that. Fucking Marines with Ld. 7. The Astarties of old are spinning in their graves fast enough to power small towns at this point.

>>52895468
Purely for the sake of argument, would a card with a ticker for large models really be any bit harder than tracking current vehicle damage?

I suppose a lot of this also comes down to how many large units we'll be fielding now. 3 vehicles/MCs with cards wouldn't be bad, but yeah that could clutter quickly.

>>52895535

What if moral checks are just 1d6 now?

>>52895548
We don't know how leadership checks will work, or what modifiers they may be subject to. Not worth panicking yet....

>>52894820
>got
ftfy
>>52894747
>>52894725
2W is good, 2W with re-rollable saves would be better

>>52895548
>implying ATSKNF won't mitigate this

GW won't let Marines be shit.

Meanwhile Guardsmen are probably Ld. 5. Yay!

>>52895570
>>52895576
I honestly felt bad for the bucket heads but you're right.

>>52895548
Don't worry, NuMarines will be LD9.

>>52895570
Holy shit that would be awesome, it would fairly represent the troops with higher leadership to be the ones that never yield/surrender like veteran marines/GK and it will only mean that they fall back on rare circusmtances

i kinda dig it

hope they nerfed save mods

marines will be even weaker now

if bolters and stuff have even a -1

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>mfw people can't get their heads around using a combination of dices, pens and papers, to keep track of all of their wounds

Come on, it's not that hard.

>>52895116

That would be nice. Give them a lot of wounds but a mediocre save and you'd have an interesting thing that plays different to dreadnaughts.

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>>52894419
>WS 3+
>BS 3+

I would like to know how no initiative will work. So who charges strikes first, ok. What about the next round of combat? Will necrons strike at the same time as some eldar bossfaggot?

>>52894419

That's just fucking stupid.

They can be shot to pieces with bolt guns...

Was it really so hard to have an armour value to ensure that weapons had to be a certain strength to hurt them? Are there people out there that wouldn't play because there is 13 pages of rules instead of 12.

Fuck me.

>>52895480
Maybe this>>52895517
or 0+ with 1's always failing, as an bonus against modifiers to hit.

>>52894419

So, as the game has armour modifiers now and everything can hurt anything. I would say it would take about 100 boltgun hits to kill a dreadnought.

6's to wound then a 4+ save.

>>52895688

We Sage of Smeg now.

>>52895691
My guess is that the unit with the higher movement goes first.

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>>52895697
Learn to sacrifice your units to achieve victory, omae.

>>52895697
Depends on the wound chart. S4 might not be able to harm T7 anymore.

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>"There are also no Super Heavy Vehicle rules, as such. With the stats going above 10, the system is now an increasing scale, which means models that previously fell just shy of super-heavy status, the Gorkanaut for example, can now punch at the appropriate weight, and become much more survivable."
>Gorkanaut
>Punch at the appropriate weight.

NO BROS THIS CANT BE HAPPENING YOU TOLD ME THAT NOBZ IN A 'NAUGHT WAS JUST A MEME IT'S NOT FUCKING FAIR.

>>52895598
>orkz will be LD 4
>along with Tyranids
It's getting worse by the second!!!

>>52895734

everything can harm everything

>Was it really so hard to have an armour value to ensure that weapons had to be a certain strength to hurt them? Are there people out there that wouldn't play because there is 13 pages of rules instead of 12.

armor values were tried and were a failure

>>52895702

Yeah, there is a difference between 'Can hurt' and 'Is practical'. Still, might get a wound or two out of your bolt guns while firing the anti-tank weapons at it.

>>52895697

It can but it would take about 100 bolter hits. Bolt weapons will mostly just scratch the pant job.

>>52895734

They've apparently come out and said 'everything will be able to hurt everything', which leads me to assume the S to T chart is largely unchanged. So they'll be wounding on a 6.

The problem is of course that Conscripts firing with orders will blow it away in a single turn.

>>52895624
Nah, it will be AoS rend system most likely, so now bolters, shuriken and pulse rifles will be rend - now

>>52895697
>They can be shot to pieces with bolt guns...

In the same way you can shoot riptides to death with bolt guns. It is possible but it won't happen unless you line up over a hundred marines.

>>52895768

How many conscripts are you considering? As that would take a shit tonne of hits.

>>52895519
Please point out the system in 40k that uses d20s.
That means they are not officially supported within 40k.
That means people will have to buy them.

>>52895719
Imma go with charging unit strikes first and then to-me to-you until one side is dead or breaks. No more getting tarpitted for multiple turns

>>52895790

Well they come in 50's.

>>52895779

I'm less bothered about the walkers and more worried about the fact that a Predator can also be killed this way, which really does make no sense.

>>52895702
100 boltgun shots = 67 hits =11 wounds (given the to wound roll is 6+) = 4 unsaved wounds.

that means its 200 boltgun shots that you need in order to kill a single dread. if you want to waste that much firepower onto it, go for it.

>>52895691
If I had to guess chargers strike first, some weapons will have always strikes last. Weapons or units might have Always Strikes first, with other units having Always Strikes Firster and Always Strikes Firstest, making Initiative be a 0-3 sort of stat, with 1 being default.

>>52895697
It's possible. But at a 3+ to hit, 6+ to wound, 3+ save, you need 27 shot to plink a single wound.

It might not be perfect, but that's why it's an abstraction.

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>The dreadnought has Ld 8

Time to fail.

>>52895702
Assuming boltguns don't knock down the dreadnought's 3+ save, it'd take 216 shots for muhreens with bolters to kill a T7, W8 dread.

If boltguns have -1 save modifier, which seems likely given their statement about weapons working more like how they do in the fluff, still takes 144 shots to kill it. 108 shots if they have a -2 modifier and the dread needs 5's to save, though that seems unlikely.

So >>52895697 freaking out over how a dread can be 'shot to pieces with bolt guns' is just hysteria.

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>>52895779
>>52895822
They'll probably get the dreadnought rule from the battle of vedros were only certain weaponry could harm vehicles
>riptides and wraithknights will get this too
Fuck

>>52895754
How the hell do you quantify that? Nigger they were in the game for over a decade. I never once saw someone complain about them UNTIL the possibility of change in 8th came up.

>>52895814
That would make close combat very very killy.

>>52895822
>Well they come in 50's.

Yeah, if you want to pay a damn lot more for them than the other guy paid for the dreadnaught.

8 wounds, wounding on 6s, saving 2/3 of the time and only being hit 50% of the time. You are looking at like 288 shots to actually kill the dreadnaught.

>>52895873

You never saw the endless monsterous creature vs walker talk?

>>52895836
>>52895814
>>52895874
OOOOR who ever's turn it is goes first.....

The biggest IF now for vehicles seems to be how the to wound chart changes. If we take the statement everything can hurt everything literally does that mean 6 always wounds on up indefinitely or do we see something like high ballistic skill in the current edition in reserve.

4+, 5+, 6+, 6+ then 2+, 6+ then 3+, on up with each stage of difference?

>>52895894

> Dreadnought survives 3 direct lascannon hits.

> Private Jenkins comes along, gets lucky with his lasgun and kills it.

Unacceptable.

>>52895861
That'd be the ez way to do it.

>>52895873
AV was always goofy.
Pre-hullpoints you had a chance of vehicles tanking absurd amounts of damage, or blowing up on the first shot to an unlucky roll.

Hull points made it better, but it was just a half step towards wounds. with some "vehicals" getting wounds.

>>52895928
That's a different story and has more to do with MCs and Tau than AV.

>>52895719
bikers the absolute rape

>>52895836
>t's possible. But at a 3+ to hit, 6+ to wound, 3+ save
(4/6)(1/6)(4/6) = (1/13.5), expected. 27 shots would be expected to do 2 wounds.

>>52895959

It's lasted as long as wraithlords have existed, as wraithlords are so much more effective at tanking hits than dreadnoughts because they didn't have the 'Press here to explode' that could randomly happen.

>>52895940
Works for me.
>Three lascannon shots tear open the dread noughts armor, leaving the beast damaged but still functional
>Private Jenkins, by the emperor's mercy scores a hit on the dreadnought's exposed pilot.

>>52895702

For whatever it's worth.

>BS 3+ means 2/3 of shots hit
>S4 vs T7 (probably) means 1/6 of hits wound
>Sv 3+ means (probably) that 1/3 of wounds are unsaved
>2/3 * 1/6 *2/3 = 4/54
>8 wounds
>108 bolter shots to kill a dreadnought assuming no other modifiers and everything else works the way it did in 7th
>marines can fire up to 2 bolter shots per turn (probably) using rapid fire
>assuming six turn games it takes 9 marines the WHOLE GAME to kill a dreadnought, meaning the deadnought is already tying up its points cost in enemy models (probably).

>>52895697
>They can be shot to pieces with bolt guns...

Just like Riptides. Congrats, dread, you're as shit as a Riptide.

>>52895691
My guess is probably retaining with who charged. The unit that charged will attack first in the combat, for as long as the combat lasts.

>>52895940
through dumb luck Private Jenkins shot through the vision slit and hit the MIU unit causing the dread to do a short tap-dance routine before falling over and shutting down its life support systems

>>52895940

Didn't that happen in one of the Gaunt's Ghosts books? They used an overloaded lasgun as an improvised explosive to kill the pilot of a torn open chaos dreadnaught.

>>52895938
LotR had 6+/4+ after 6+ which seems like the most logical progression after a 6+ being half as likely as 5+

>>52895969
derp, I'm wrong, you're right
should've been 2/6 for the save, and 27 shots to expect one wound.

>>52895749
>Ld. 4

Think you mean Ld. 2. And Mob rule works by giving you +1 per 10 orks in a unit.

>>52895570

Morale is gone, you miss that bit of info?

>>52895969
You did 4/6 save. You need 2/6 to fail the save.

>>52895845

I don't think it can?

Morale works like the following now.

>Its no longer all or nothing, and it affects everyone. We’re thinking of replacing break tests with a simple mechanic. Roll a D6, add that to the number of models your unit has lost this turn, subtract your Leadership and take that many additional casualties

>>52896050
I'm alright with that.
Most everything had a way to ignore it, or high leadership anyways.

>>52896071
Just like Age of Sigmar's Battleshock tests. Cool. Its Ld will probably be used for psyker powers or other special effects from other units.

>>52896071

That puts the Ld7 on marines in perspective.

If you roll a 6, you still need to have lost 2 marines before you lose 1 extra marine. You'll only have issues if you roll badly AND you lost more than half the unit in a single turn.

>>52896030

Its case had already been smashed open and it was blinded, then one of them threw a grenade in I believe.

>>52896050

Source?

>>52896131

Something like that, yeah.

I'd call that acceptable fluff for 'The dreadnaught is on it's last couple of wounds'.

>>52896007
>>52896010
>>52896012

All I'm saying is, armour serves one basic function, too protect those inside from small arms. For that reason, armour and infantry should be treat separately.

>>52894747
T4 is appropriate

If anything humans etc. should be T2

>>52896163
And this setup does protect the vehicles from small arms. It's so not worthwhile to shoot at a dreadnought with bolters. They should be treated the same because that makes the game rules much easier to remember.

>>52896163

Mind you, even these days an APC isn't exactly 100% protected from assault rifle fire. There is good reasons we describe things as bullet resistant rather than bulletproof.

>>52894825
They said they are

A damned good thing too, the all-or-nothing instant death system was retarded

This guy is riding a bike so he goes from being instantly vaporised to only being slightly wounded by an anti-tank weapon? Silliness

Damage values are much better

>>52896148

Was planned to work the same way as in AoS.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/23/warhammer-40000-news-from-adepticon/

>>52896096

I was told that large units get a bonus in Age of Sigmare when it comes to battle shock. Is this true?

>change for the sake of change (read:profits)
>combining the worst aspects of Kings of War and Age of Skubmar
I don't know why I expected any better from geedub

>>52895340
Yes, because they cost barely anything and it's easy you fucking retard

If you're really that worried just use a piece of paper and a pen

>>52896231

> Worst aspects.

We don't have double turns... yet.

>>52896163
And it does. But even a big, heavy tanks will yield to mass fire from 19mm rapid fire rocket launchers. US has lost tons of Abrams in Iraq and Afghanistan, and very few of them were actually penetrated. They just got fucked so bad on other parts that they had to be abandoned.

>>52896163
I'm hoping vehicles get something like:
>Immune to Morale,
>+1 to all wound rolls, 7+ always fails.
>If this model takes a wound roll a d6 on the nothing/shaken/stunned/immobilized chart.

Depends on how far they want to get from the old AV rules, and how alright they are with tanks=monstrous creatures.

>>52896163
It's fucking irrelevant

Walkers will be way better than they currently are. They're going to die less easily . That is a good thing.

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>>52896224
Yes.

>>52896292
>If this model takes a wound roll a d6 on the nothing/shaken/stunned/immobilized chart.

Oh hell no. That chart needs to go die a horrible death.

>>52896292
They're doing it the AoS way where you have a chart that shows you their current stats for their current wounds

So as monsters and vehicles are hurt they get weaker and slower

>>52895653
I just want to go back to the good old days of 7th where I had to keep track of my hullpoints and the dozen possible status changes.

>>52896231
I like the KoW rules.It's made for mass fantasy combat, not skirmish games.

Although, you could argue that 40k has stopped being a skirmish game.

>>52895519
Getting kicked from tournament for using a d20 to keep track of wounds. My sides.

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>>52896291

I wouldn't really consider RPG's to be small arms.

>>52896329

Here's a picture of the GW official wound counter, only 19.99 at all good stores!

>>52895800
>That means people will have to buy them
As though GW was handing out free D6s.

>>52896349

I think at the point where you have 4 tanks and 50 dudes you long ago stopped being skirmish.

>>52896409

> Only 4 tanks.

I have more than 4 APCs.

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>>52895702
More like 350.

>>52896311
Shaken/stunned/immobilized is fine, imo. The random exploding less so.
>>52896329
I'd be cool with that too.

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Do you retards complaining about tracking wounds not realize these things exist?

>>52896292

I believe its been heavily implied we'll get the death spiral that large units suffer in AOS. Some like a tank or monstrous creature will have thresholds where once they drop below a certain number of wounds they lose weapons/stats/something happens.

>>52896421
Oh wait, Dreadnoughts have 8 wounds, not 12. Then you're looking more at 250.

>>52896231
>company trying to make a profit
Heavens to betsy whatever will we do

>>52896421
>>52896456
Should be around 150 or so.

>>52896309

Cool, this could help hordes of orks,guards, cultist and tyranid but I do worry about some elite units like mega nobz with this system.

>>52896387
>I wouldn't really consider RPG's to be small arms
Well thats what bolters are...

>>52895800
I played RT and 2nd ed., son, D4, D8, D12 and D20 were all official.

>>52896387
>I wouldn't really consider RPG's to be small arms.

They are in 40k. Your standard infantry weapons include a rapid fire RPG, a plasma coilgun, gun that strips matter on the molecular level, a really big caliber gun and even the weakest gun in the setting can blow off limbs and fist sized chunks out of reinforced concrete.

>>52896483
It's the amount of causalities in AoS that counts, not the amount of suffered wounds. So if Mega-Nobs are rocking 3-4 wounds, you won't lose many per turn, and therefore you have a very low risk for some of them to run off due to battleshock.

>>52896409
>4 tanks and 50 dudes
If only. My standard IG list has twice that, even at low levels.

As the model count rises, you need to do more abstraction or the games are unplayably long.

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>>52896455
For all you 40k players who've never seen this, this is what it looks like.

>>52896518

No they not, bolters have no where near the power of an RPG because we have RPG's in the game and they're Strength 6.

>>52896444
No, I used D4s (very stable, good for anything with 5 wounds or under, and won't be confused with D6s), but might have to invest in larger digit dice now.

I guess my tin of vehicle damage tokens is getting empties and wound dice will take over.

>>52896574
Dice are quite an investment, I know. Choose wisely or your .78 cents could be wasted.

>>52896540

Could be kinda cool to see something like Penitent Engines have the opposite. They start mediocre but get killier the closer they come to a redemptive death.

So, basically Age of Emperor happened, but they pulled back from outright destroying the setting.

Nice to know I was right again.

>>52896617

> They pulled back.

8th isn't even out yet. There's still plenty of time to blow everything up.

>>52896548
Why are you here complaining about things when you clearly dont know shit about 40k?

>>52896616
Skarbrand is exactly like that. The more wounds he suffers, the more enraged and more killier he gets

>>52895317
Rejoice: According to those stats and the stated assault rules if they get the charge your conscripts are fully capable of beating that example dreadnought in an unarmed fist fight with zero losses.

>>52896464
Back in the day they used to improve the rules, instead of just trying to fix something that isn't broken.

What's that? We're getting Move values and armour save mods back for no good reason even though we just got rid of them some time ago? Fucking brilliant.

>>52896548
>implying those aren't super grimdark future destructor rpgs

>>52896639

I was about to ask you the same question.

We have grenades and grenade launchers in the game, they're S6 to S8.

>>52894419
>More varied movement values so things are faster as opposed to 2nd ed slow as molasses
>Charge no longer random and whoever charge first strikes first adding more depth to positioning and getting a charge
>Armies that had higher initiative now have higher movement so they out maneuver slower armies and get the charge more often while adding the possibility of slower armies striking first
>No more vehicles vs MC
>No more invincible riptides
>Terminators got a buff
>No more formations, only FoC and command points
>Everyone's getting an update to even the playing field a bit more

This is looking like the best edition in a long time, I like everything that I see.

>>52896476
No, I don't think so. 3+ hit, 6+ wound, 3+ save, 150 boltgun shots is only a 19.40% of inflicting 8+ wounds. That's about one in five.
208 shots is about 50.69%.

>>52895317
Guard players should be the happiest out of all of us

Tanks are getting good

>>52896649
Not likely

>>52896663

True, but by this logic I assume instead of Dorchester armour they have super swanky space deluxe turbo edition armour as well.

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>>52896648
>>52896616

>>52896548
You do realize an RPG is a definition of a weapon system, not a specific weapon, right?

>>52896722

So now instead of having one chart of 6 options, every tank and walker will have its own chart... great.

>>52896747
Yeah, probably.

>>52896661
Did you seriously just argue that the mechanics of 7th aren't fundamentally broken?

Because they are

This is already shaping up to be the best edition for a long, long time

>>52896677
>All RPGs in all of existence have the same characteristics
>Since IG have a grenade launcher at str 6, this means that Bolters/Boltguns are really just machine guns
>Theres a whole pile of lore out there on Bolters and what they are but im ignoring that
Dude.

>>52896747

I imagine that only notable vehicles will have it. A chimera or rhino is less likely to have one and just keep plodding along the same until it dies.

>>52896661
>Back in the day they used to improve the rules
When was that? 20 years ago? Since 5th, when I came in, their new editions were made explicitly to sell models, not to make a better game.

>all these stats nerds saying you need 40 gorillion bolters to kill a Dreadnought

I will just high roll it off the table with my 10 muhreens thank you very much. fuck what you heard

>>52896677
Frag grenades are S4 so yeah a bolter shot is equivalent to a grenade in 40k.

>>52896747
We don't know yet

Having played AoS, it's pretty easy to keep track of

>>52896776

I'm not talking about the fluff alright, it's as clear as it can be. We have grenade launchers and they're S6 bolters are S4 you can't really get any clearer than that.

The point is mute anyway, since someone's done the mash and worked out that it would take half a company of marines to kill one.

>>52896857
I thought the IG frag grenade launcher was S3?

>>52896796
I'm so sorry that I started playing 40k more than nine years ago. The reason I and my friends got in the hobby and started buying a shitload of miniatures from GW was because of the great rules, so that seems to have worked as the company's strategy in ancient history. Shit rules are also the reason why I don't play or buy their stuff much anymore.

>>52897029

Krak is S6 and the old soviet RPG's we originally were talking about were armour piecing shaped charges.

Frag is more like an airburst which bolters are definitely not, they also have armour piecing tips in the fluff and explode inside.

>>52895688
>>52895712

As far as BS goes it's the same damn thing as bs4 just without the charts, and there is nothing wrong with simplifying ws.

>>52895548
>leadership checks actually mattering in the game
Oh no, that is so bad!

>>52897076
>Frag is more like an airburst which bolters are definitely not

Unless using metal storm bolts.

>>52895340

>anxious at having to buy DICE
>plays 40k

Nigga wat in the fuck

You've spent hundreds/thousands to get into this hobby and buying some dice is the breaking point?

Fuck me sideways man I give up

>>52897076
So you are comparing a shaped charge, anti-armor/heavy infantry explosive to a semi-armor piercing, anti-infantry explosive round?
... why, exactly?

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>>52894419
No more initiative!

TIME FOR ASSAULT TAU

>>52895340
How did you keep track of your multi-wound models so far? How did you keep track of your hull points and vehicle damage so far? How do you breath or put on your pants in the morning without assistance?

Next you'll ask me if people are forced to go out and buy rulebooks or models. No, you're not. You can just not play.

Fucking neck yourself.

>>52894585
>I'm sad initiative is gone

Necrons and Orks aren't!

Anyways based on these statlines 10 tacticals and one dreadnought do very similar melee damage...

I dislike Vehicles and Monstrous creatures now working the same ruleswise.
It's just a blatant admission that they couldn't figure out how to make vehicles distinct from monstrous creatures.

Also, does this bs mean that armor values on the different sides of the vehicle, and AP rolls are gone as well?

>>52897189

Fuck me...

Read the original post...

You've basically just agreed with me that an RPG used against vehicles and a bolter are different.

Well done. Now turn 360 degrees and McFucking kill yourself.

>>52897225
>inb4 Tau are shit at fighting and thus get Always Strikes Last

>>52897271
>inb4 Orks are slow and thus get Always Strikes Last

>>52897225
>probably 4" movement
>probably 5+ WS
>S3

Not so fast, brother

>>52895548
Good, Marines can't ignore half the game anymore, until they probably can, also squad leaders.

Remember, morale is meant to represent tactical retreat, not just panic.

>>52896661
>What's that? We're getting Move values and armour save mods back for no good reason

The reason is because they're good. Movement values adds way more model differentiation. Armor mods mitigates the race to AP2.

>even though we just got rid of them some time ago? Fucking brilliant.

So every decision in the past is good and we should never fix mistakes?

>>52897302
I can't even find the original post because you fuckers started sperging out from literally the word go.
Even then, who the fuck is arguing that a bolt round is anti-vehicle? It's thye equivalent to a micro frag grenade for a reason (orks and transhumans on earth).

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>>52897322
Only reason I can tolerate the WS system being destroyed is because my army might be better. If they still find a way to fuck Ork players over (which they will) i'll be pissed. I am desperate for better rules.

>>52894747
instant death will likely be removed anyway

>>52895598
>GW won't let marines be shit

They sure let them be shit for 25+ years from RT to 5E

The real conundrum is why they let the other iconic races like orks and CSM stay shit when they made them so good in WHFB

>>52897296
The reason they couldn't easily separate them is because they continuously blurred the line between them. Obviously a rhino and carnifex are different, but riptides, wraithknights, and dreads are trickier to differentiate.

>>52897437
Yeah, so instead of fixing them they went "lol, they all work like infantry now :^)"

>>52895317
They make vehicles not shit. Whadayathink?

>>52897225
Assasult Kroot, at the very least! Hopefully they'll be fast-moving. And have actual Stealth instead of Stealth (Forests).

>>52896661
>some time ago
20+ years is "some time"?
>>52897421
This.
Newfags don't know that Marines were one of the joke armies of the game until they became solid in 5e for the first time, and it was Wolves/Angels that were the elite SM armies.
>>52897459
>hurr its different and i don't like it!
You couldn't "fix" AV, cunt, you had to fix the power creep of the rest of the game with all the weapons that made AV worthless.

>>52895688
there's nothing wrong with it you sperg

Eh, I'm looking forward to this. I have high hopes that this will unfuck the rules and level the playing field a bit.

>>52896483
it really doesn't
large units are trash in aos unless you have specific synergies going on
losing 15 men in a human blob usually means that 14 more will run away
meanwhile small squads (who usually also have higher morale than blobs because fluff) never have to take them , because if you did enough damage to make failing a morale test reasonable you've probably killed the whole 5 man squad already

>>52896425
it's fine if monstrous creatures get to roll on the exact same thing

>>52897225
I hope they go the full mile and make you faggots hit on a 6 only

What is this, day three? Day two?

Today was a decent day.

What we've seen is a good sign. It's insufficient to say much - can't compare Marines to Dreadnought without knowing what weapons and wargear the two have available to help them do their job.

Granularity in movement speed is cool.

Loss of AV makes vehicle health a bit scary. Is T7 W8 3+ enough to survive when weapons of any strength can wound you and possibly strip your armor?

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>mfw GW is only replacing hullpoints with wounds so they can sell 20 sided dice for 10$

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>>52896071
That's just Daemonic Instability tho, only not just in melee and with less FUN

>>52897569

We still don't know how wounding will work. That they've kept T as a stat leads me to believe there will be weapons incapable of wounding certain things.

>>52897569
>Is T7 W8 3+ enough to survive when weapons of any strength can wound you and possibly strip your armor?
It means that you will need dedicated anti-vehicle weapons to actually do the work, compared to hope and prayer.

>>52897617
they've specifically said otherwise on the stream though
even going as far as to say a lasgun can wound a land raider

>>52897569
> Is T7 W8 3+ enough to survive when weapons of any strength can wound you and possibly strip your armor?
when was the last time you saw a guard squad remove someone like Angron?

>>52894864

I play Dark Eldar....I am going to have to keep track of 6+ Raiders....at 1000pts....

I'm not sure how I feel about all vehicles becoming as unkillable as Riptides. I really really hope that Riptides and Wraithknights get hit with the nerf bat and become easier to kill, and that vehicles and the former bullshit MC's meet in the middle where they are difficult to deal with but not bloody fucking invincible.

>>52897681
So, when you know how many wounds the thing will have, you put 0-that around the edge of a base and cut out a little paper arrow to point to the right number.

>>52895404

I honestly love that.

>>52894419
This is fucking retarded. Instead of making battlesuits and shit just walkers now everything is a monstrous creature. I'll give 8th it's fair shot but I run a vehicle based Guard army and honestly this pisses me off to no end.

>>52897682
keep in mind that negative save modifiers and such will mean that a lot of weapons will gain effectiveness when it comes to dealing with 2+ saves
on top of that the big guns you used to kill them previously will now do a lot more damage to them when they hit to
days where you need to hit a MC with a demolisher 5 times to take it out will most likely be gone

New edition looks awesome so far.

I think AoS is looking good too now.

WHAT DAEMONS ARMY SHOULD I GET SO I CAN PLAY BOTH?

>>52897766
>I run a vehicle based Guard army and honestly this is the best thing that can happen to me because my vehicles are now tougher on all facings and can't be lucky oneshotted/haywired to death

>>52897766
fellow guard player here
don't mind it all that much
i am pissed about the removal of templates though

can't wait to be angry because my LR's missed their 4+ to hit main battle canon
or because i rolled a 3 for my 2d6 damage on the blob of boys i just shot at

>>52897766
I run mechguard and mechsisters. I do not know what to feel about this.

I am going to have to buy a dozen of whatever ingenious wont tracker device the cheap gaming aid people come up with though, which is annoying..

>>52896617
>>52896636

What the fuck are you talking about? A world getting destroyed in 40k is just Tuesday. It happens all the time lol.

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>WS now works like BS
>Initiative gone
>Movement stat
I have mixed feelings, on the one hand, Daemonettes along with Eldar and some other high Initiative units will probably get Always Strikes First Daemons of Slaanesh will probably get it on principle if they bring that in as a thing, otherwise taking out Initiative is going to annoy me.
With the new WS system, I no longer set enemies to hit in melee to 4+, but on the other hand daemonettes and bloodletters are almost definitely getting 3+ and Greater Daemons will almost definitely be 2+ unless Tzeentch.
I am excited for Movement though, M12" here I come!

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>>52897766
>Complaining that your tanks now have a WS, get to hit first if they charge, and since anything can wound anything, are now able to kill a Titan in melee
Please see you local Commissar to report your heresy.

>>52897788
Normally I advocate Slaanesh, but with that get it'd be a crime not to recommend Khorne.

>>52897814
Yeah, I run Emp's children, so the loss of initiative boost is going to be annoying since it was so good for winning fights, but if they exchange it for movement I can't really complain.

7" instead of 6 is going to be great, especially since it would help out shooty squads as well to get that little bit of extra range where they need it.

>>52895691
The way I see it melee will finally be like shooting, you fight in your turn, the enemy fight in their turn

>>52897887
Have they confirmed anywhere that tanks are gaining WS?

>>52897917
not him but everything is getting a ws so i don't see why tanks are not
will probably be 1 attack with dx wounds and be used to replace ramming

>>52897790
Yeah pretty much this.
>Oh noes my 6+ chimeras are only T7, 8 would 3+ save monstrous creatures? How will I survive?

Excited to see what sort of beasts Russes end up being.

>>52895375
>play IG armoured company
>"and don't forget to bring your abacus"

>>52897892
I also have Emp's Children, mind you it's entirely Noise Marines so moving around wasn't a thing, I sort of just picked some ruins to deploy in and shot at my enemies with 48" blasts that ignored cover at AP3. I wonder how those blasts will work. Also I hope we get to keep the combat drugs, I'm not done having fun with them.

>>52897814
>>52897892
you guys might get an "always strikes first" rule

>>52897953
>not him but everything is getting a ws so i don't see why tanks are not
>will probably be 1 attack with dx wounds and be used to replace ramming
That'd make sense.

Interested to see what the rules are for vehicles. Don't want termagants locking my Land Raider in melee.

>>52895375
Just buy D20/D10/D8 dice you twat

>>52897972
I feel like that belongs on the Icon of Excess rather than a Mark of Slaanesh for CSM, I'd be happy if the Mark increases Movement though.

>>52897887
>>52897810
>>52897790
But tanks and vehicles shouldn't be infantry. I honestly liked the explosion and having an armor value because it made facing wirth it. It meant I needed to have infantry to support the tanks so they wouldn't be killed. This just seems so stupid to me. And I know other anons are happy about this but my gut says no. Other than that I'm fine with it.

>>52897961
Yeah, I have a few more things in my force where the extra movement will come in handy, though even just for repositioning it'll be good.

I'd expect small blasts to end up being d3 or d6 hits or something like that. Not sure if cover will work the same way, but I do feel like Blastmasters will still be a strong choice.

>>52897972
I kind of doubt it for a simple mark. Besides, Initiative 5 was only really useful for the extra defense against other marines.

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>Ork boy
>Melee army
>2"

I think the more important thing is that dreadnoughts now have a 3+ save

Also I wonder what the new C'tan stats will be since like half it's abilites were blasts

>>52898037

Which is no longer relevant in 8th and you'll probably fuck shit up right good like you do in AoS.

>>52898012
On the one hand, it sucks to lose facings, and knowing that the best anti armour in the game might be a platoon of blobguard using front rank second rank is kind of alarming.

On the other, it'll be interesting to see how tau shits come out of this, and if outflanking or deep striking meltaguns near them will actually allow you to kill the fucking things this time.

>>52894725
How are my Meganobz supposed to roll over Termies now

>>52898012

While I utterly loathed 'Hey look, the wraithlord gets to stay fully functional until the very last wound but I get to roll on the Chart of Doom every time my dreadnaught gets hit. There is a good chance he'll become unable to actually get to melee because he lost his legs part way there'

>>52898052
>movement is not relevant
?

>>52898022
I mean, I had Lucius for anything that got within charge range of my firing line, a pair of Chaos Spawn to get my combat drugs and a flying Daemon Prince with a spell familiar that flew across the battle field summoning Daemonettes.
So Lucius and Spawn moving a little faster will be great.

>>52894419
Annoyed at the reduction in complexity from the lack of different AVs for different sides.

>>52898065

Your shit meme is about to become irrelevant. They're gonna have better than a 2 inch movement and you know it.

>>52896127

Consider this: My squad of 50 Conscripts gets shot at. Looses say 10-12 guys.

I roll a 2 on my Ld test. I loose ANOTHER 3-5....oh wait. Thats actually not that bad, Total Casualties for the turn: 13-17 AND they stay put...winner winner chicken dinner!

Also Commisars are 100% just going to be, if you fail a Ld test, execute highest Ld Miniature and carry on as normal. Thematic, simple, I love it.

Time to go convert some Commisars.

>>52898037
uh? where is it?

>>52898037
more likely than not you will have copy pasted Orc rules from AOS

>>52894989
> something has 15 wounds
> put down a 1 and 5 die

Life is hard

>>52898095
time to order a bunch of krieg commissars

>>52898082
units will probably have rules that affect their toughness beyond their base statline.

>all of the complaints are about keeping track of wounds
>like that's even hard
>these are the people who complain about change
But the game is ruined guys!

>>52898062
It seems silly that they couldn't have just made Wraithknights superheavy walkers like Knights. Leaving only Tyranids with only monstrous creatures. Because if a Daemon engine is a walker why not a Wraith construct or Riptide? Makes sense to me.

>>52898095

Yeah. The only people who are going to be miserable I think are Tau.

They don't have huge numbers and they have mediocre morale. So they are more likely than most to lose a crisis suit or a few firewarriors to morale.

Even then, better than having the entire unit run away for a few turns.

>>52898095
consider this :
the enemy focus fires your conscripts
you lose 24 guys and roll a 4 , 21 more guys run away

i agree that for us IG guys commisars will most likely solve the issue (unless joining units will also be a thing of the past like it is in aos but i really hope it isn't) but for other blobs it will be a real issue

>>52898174
>Miserable Tau players
this edition is already perfect

How do you guys think Daemonic Instability will be converted to the new Ld system?
It was already different to the old system and this new system looks a lot like a weaker Daemonic Instability to me.

>>52897722
We hero clicks now

>>52895790
Why are you firing conscripts at chaos land Raiders instead of the first wave of blood letters?

>>52898115
>not using base 7
pleb.

>>52898192

I wouldn't be suprised if Demons are immune to any sort of fear effects BUT have a rather low morale to represent demonic instability.

>>52895375
This is a valid concern for the replacement of the old vehicle stats. No mention on facings as of yet as well which really pisses me off.

>>52898202
Because acceptable casualties, that's why.
The next wave of conscripts shoots at the bloodletters.

>>52898202
Because the Inquisitor in charge ordered you to.
Conscripts: Infinite resource
Bloodletters: Infinite resource
Chaos Landraider: Irreplaceable heresy era artifact

In terms of the Long War targeting the LR is the only logical choice.

>>52898252
>>52898192
They may have a rule where if the models from a unit are totally wiped out thanks to failed morale (10 guys in the squad, 5 die from shooting, 5 phase out due to a failed check), they go into deep-strike reserve and have a chance to reappear later on.

That could be an interesting way to have their morale matter while still giving them a countermeasure to it.

>>52898252

Daemons in AoS are Bravery 10 across the board, they don't give a shit

>>52898252
But Daemonic Instability was 2d6 leadership test when you lost in melee, with the potential to wipe the squad or restore any lost models on double 6 or 1 respectively. As a result they were basically fearless but were literally unstable.
I'd like if they kept daemonic instability as a rule, losing an entire unit on double 6 was painful sure but getting the entire squad back on double 1 was amazing.
But you're probably right, they'll just give Daemons standard fearlessness and make them weak to battleshock.
>>52898302
That is actually much better, I hope they do this.

>>52895317
Don't fear brother. Everything we have is getting buffed to be better. Blobs will be better, vehicles will be better, Bullgryn will be better, Shotgun vets will be better.

Literally everything we have will be strong.

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>>52894419
>MFW this bullshit
>MFW gullimarines
>MFW the entire shitbrigade that is 8th editiion

>>52895598
We still have Commissars and Priests as models and they will get rules. Commissars will likely mitigate battleshock losses and stuff like that. Our blobs will be amazing still.

>>52898190
Anything is worth making those fish-headed vaginas miserable Anon.

>>52898341
I'm not to optimistic about it either but some things seem like a step up right now, this vehicle shit is straight up fucking retarded without knowing the full extent of changes.

Initiative removal is a fucking mistake, I don't give a fuck what anyone has to say about "strike first" or "strike last" shit. Initiating charge should give a +1 or something.

I like the differing move values, but I have a bad feeling "The Sorcerer Commands" will be back for my Rubrics.

>>52898174
>Very first move of the game, stealth suits into dangerous terrain
>One fails check
>Fails save and dies
>Survivors fail break check
>Run away
I think that's the greatest possible amount of time that a unit can be fleeing.

I have a feeling ethereals and fireblades will be a little more important. Which I don't mind at all.

>>52898065
Dude Trukks are about to become much tankier than they are now, even if they remain in the same spot relatively speaking having a Trukk thats like T7 4+sv 10Wounds is already better than AV10 crap you have now. I can already see Ork armies being nothing but full Trukks out the ass and bikes, they'll be tougher so it'll be easier to reach combat now that its not random charge distance, add Waagh and now your orks are striking first with a crapton of attacks.

>>52898408
The only things I like so far is bringing the Movement stat back, and the Keyword system tidying up what special rules affect what units.

I might just sit this edition out, concentrate on my Warmachine armies for a while, then come back in 9th. 3rd edition was a complete hot mess when they first switched over from 2nd, after all.

GOD DAMNIT GW I WANT TO PLAY 40K NOT AoS JUST FUCKING STOP GOD DAMNIT

So what weapon skill will a Rhino be, do you think?

>>52898339
Blobs are getting worse, battleshock means they take more damage, blast weapons hitting d6 times means it doesn't matter how spread out you are. The only improvements are they they can try to swarm vehicles and barrage weapons won't me any stronger against them then they are anything else barring special rules.

>MTG spindowns are like 50p per unit and have a linear countdown from 20
>Own like 10 from various products
Sick

>>52898444
I'll wait it out and see what happens, I was kind of eyeing some HH stuff but that seems to be quite a gamble with how things are currently changing.

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>>52897391
>>52898037
>>52895738
>>52895749

>>52898471
>blast weapons hitting d6 times means it doesn't matter how spread out you are

On the other hand, it means you can't take any more than 6 hits per attack, and often you'll take less. Most of the time, I find that horde infantry needs to bunch up to take advantage of terrain or maximise the number of shots it can put onto a single target. Spreading out to mitigate blasts is a luxury that circumstance doesn't always allow.

Battleshock is complete garbage though.

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This asshole's gonna be back, right?

I mean it's the only possible outcome of Girlyman's heretical commerce with xenos at this point

>>52898514

So where'd you get that?

>>52898524

I hope so, the butthurt would be glorious to behold.

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Wait what's going to happen to my daemon chariots?
They get Toughness and a save? They already have a 5+ invul save because they're daemons, their toughness will probably be the same as the Heralds and Alluress' I have riding them. Are my chariots going to end up even squishier? I hope I keep the "Fuck you I deal 4d6 wounds on my Hammer of Wrath" at strength 4 ap- with Rending somehow.

>>52898471
Battleshock probably won't be as bad when we take a Commissar or Priest. There will be buffs for the Guard with them. Not having to spread out is a buff, definitely. Now you can cluster them up more to get more guns in range instead of having to worry about spacing all the time.

>>52898513
>I was kind of eyeing some HH stuff but that seems to be quite a gamble with how things are currently changing.

Same, 40k's core rules are good and apparently the HH game's balance is actually reasonable, but I just don't find Marines all that interesting. If there were 30k-era xenos armies available I might give it a punt, but eh.

>>52896684
I don't even play TT and j pretty interested in where it goes.

>>52898550

off the website, its a nightmare to navigate.

>>52898121

I play Paetorian counts as Dkok... yep time to get me some lol.

I imagine forgeworld are just going to stick to the formula with Dkok. So probably not gonna need the Commisars...

>>52898556

It will likely work like bikes. Extra toughness/wounds.

>>52898550
M8, it's blatantly a shitty shop. Anon hasn't even matched the font properly.

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>>52898514
Not even a good photoshop.

>>52894895
They also mentioned in the video recently that vehicles and monstrous creatures will lose power as they take wounds. Losing ballistic skill, movement speed, weapons they can fire, or other things. There's actually more to keep track of. They have the video up from the Q&A stream.

>>52898590
It'd want to be a bigger buff than +1T/W or my chariot is going to be worth less than the plastic it's made of.
Slaanesh Chariots are the best, so spiky, so annoying to paint, so much death on Hammer of Wrath. I hope they find a way to keep them as a useful and dangerous option that my opponents desperately shoot at to try and get it the fuck off the board while my Seekers and Daemonettes run at them from the sides.

>>52898662
>There's actually more to keep track of.

There's going to be more to keep track of in general. The stream mentioned that every unit has "bespoke special rules" now. So we can wave goodbye to the handy USR section at the back of the rulebook, and look forwards to lots of shuffling through pages to remind us what each individual special-snowflake rule does.

>>52898654

took me 200 years in MS paint on a touchpad actually.

>>52898689
Well, the rules are going to be compact pages of datasheets, so flipping to it is going to be looking through like three pages. Codices are going to complicate things a bit but hopefully they at least learn how to format.

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>>52894747

>nurgle terminators t5 AND 2 wounds

>>52894419
I'm okay with this.

Although I was hoping ws would remain an opposed check.

>>52895007

pfft, I've been using a D12 for Ork stompas since Day 1

Now I just use 2D20 (they'll have no less than 30, probably 32 if the 3HP to 8 wound ratio is universal)

>>52898632

I know that m8, I was calling him on it.

Is it just me, or does that dreadnought statline look considerably tougher than the current one?

At the moment, it takes about nine autocannon hits to kill a dread. Assuming autocannons can wound T8 on a 3+ and have a -1 ASM, it will now take 24 hits to kill one if they do 1 wound each, 12 if they do D3.

>>52894419
>you can't flank vehicles now

I'll miss that part of the game. Really liked how positioning units was important.

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>>52898783
>>52895738

these models are less than £10 apart

>>52898829
It is tougher but you're still not looking at the whole picture, anti-tanks weapons might deal multiple wounds and there might be a miriad of other weapons that might just deal one damage but fuck its armor save value.

That would be a good way to balance grav for example, let grav deal one damage but do it regularly and have melta/lascannons/missile launcher deal d3/d6 damage.

>>52898847
ehh it was kind of annoying how models could hit the side at a 50 degree angle and still get to shoot the side armor value

I wonder how Instant Death is gonna work. I also wonder what kinda modifiers are gonna factor into combat now. I've seen a lot of 'but my lithe daemon/avatar shouldn't be able to be hit!', I wonder if its gonna be special ruled in.

>>52898891
Id will probably be removed know
the multiple wounds per hit system arguably represents it better than how it used to be

>>52898891
>I wonder how Instant Death is gonna work.

Almost certainly removed in favour of some weapons doing D3 wounds.

>I've seen a lot of 'but my lithe daemon/avatar shouldn't be able to be hit!', I wonder if its gonna be special ruled in.

For some of them, probably, because apparently looking up and comparing WS's is too complex for nu-Games Workshop's target audience.

>>52898689

AoS plays faster than FB ever did.

Niggas trynna recycle 2 year old bait lmao familia

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>>52898758
>tfw The New Games Workshop™ gives bikes 2 wounds as well

>>52898891
They might introduce a sort of 'parry save' for those more elite melee units, so that even if they're getting hit on 2s, they get to roll a dice for each hit and cancel them on a 4+ or something.

>>52898891
>I wonder how Instant Death is gonna work.

Probably does multiple wounds, wouldnt be surprised if units with the Vehicle keyword are immune to ID but take multiple wounds from weapons with the keyword Anti-Tank like meltas and lacannons.

>>52898829
Save modifier is back though (rumored, we'll know tomorrow), so it may take 12 shots, but more of them will go through it its like -2/-3 Sv.

File: 40k tzeentch cultist -convert or die wordpress.jpg (104KB, 489x533px) Image search: [Google]

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>>52894419
>everything can wound everything

Does that mean I can finally build my 100% cultist army now?

>>52898514
WS 5+ and 1 attack? Fuck off

>>52898916
I don't think comparing WS was ever a problem, but it was a bit boring, hitting on 5+/4+ most of the time. I'm interested to see what this, plus the new 'chargers attack first' and any other changes to assault play out. It was considerably the worst part of the game.

>>52898514
dem 5s look damn janky my friend, you sure that's not a shop?

>>52898932
I almost got excited at the idea my daemonettes might get a parry save. Then I remembered GW would say "nah, you got your invul save" and give it to Eldar or something equally trash.

>>52898938
Yes ma'am. I can also do my majority Conscript army.

>>52898934
multiple wounds will most likely be a standard thing for all heavy weapons
i doubt ID as a rule will survive into 8th

>>52898872

I wouldn't be surprised if Autocannons are still 1 wound (But the edge of it). Gives them the role of 'Good (But not fantastic) against everything' while Meltaguns go something like 1d6 wounds (2d6 at half range)

>>52896030
>>52896131
>>52896151
Dreadnought was blinded, and in a field of poison-spine-shooting-sound-sensitive cacti. Mkoll blasted the armor open with an overcharged lasgun IED which also made the cacti shoot hundreds of needles everywhere and into the interred Chaos Marine.

>>52898966
>but it was a bit boring, hitting on 5+/4+ most of the time

Right, so the chart should have been varied to make differing WS's mean more - 5+'s should have become more common, and the very highest WS's should have been mowing through chaff on a 2+. But in typical GW style, rather than fix the problem, they just gut the whole rule and call it done.

The most important thing is that I will be able to put my repentia and arco-flagelants on the table, and have tham actually ACHIEVE something.

>>52898689
USRs just led to nested webs of rules. I've seen people argue about Daemonic Instability dozens of times.

>>52898974
Eh, you never know. They may give Daemonettes an increased Invuln save in melee, similar to what Wyches get for DEldar.

I was thinking of the parry thing being on top of any other saves, but also being restricted to really high weapon skill characters like Bloodthirsters and the like. Stick it on those big single models so things don't slow down.

>>52899000
except that would mean combat between anything but elites would be a giant slog that will most likely not be resolved by the end of the game

>>52899002

I'm rather expecting stuff like Repentia to get a little bit of a speed boost now that speed is able to be more easily variable.

Like how terminators are 5 instead of 6, I could easily see Repentia/Death Company being 7.

>>52899040
I'm cool with that, you'd have to give it to Bloodthirsters too though, they had equal WS with Daemonettes.
Keeper of Secrets and Herald's of Slaanesh getting a parry save would be amazing though.

>>52899000
People will give you flak for this, but aside from some of the changes this is my first impression of what 8th is going to be like.

>>52899002
Stoked.

>>52898562
Well, blasts hitting only 1d6 was just an example, for all we know they're hitting 2d6. I doubt it'll be that much though and small blasts probably won't hit more than d3.

>>52899000
And all it would achieve is causing bigger creatures to hit on better numbers. Essentially what they've done here. The only core conceit I see is MC vs MC would *also* be 2+ vs 2+, but with increased wounds its a wash.

>>52899070
Yeah, parry save as a separate thing is dedicated CC HQ only. Bloodletters and Daemonettes get a 4++ invuln in CC to represent their close combat prowess in terms of blocking/dodging. I would say 3++, but that might be a bit much for troops, especially with whatever psychic powers end up being.

>>52899090
I really think we'll be surprised by how effective blobs will become. At least we won't be able to be swept up in close combat after losing only by a few. At least I think it will work that way.

>>52895730
Space Marines aren't supposed to sacrifice anybody.


Looks like I'm going to be playing my Space Marines as counts-as Custodes from now on.

>>52899090

Well, they've more room for working out the exact value now than with '2 sizes of blast, no more and no less'. So a frag could be 1d3 while an eldar plasma grenade could be 1d3+1 if they wanted.

>>52896722
Never played AoS, so I'm curious, is a mortal wound similar to instant death?

>>52899150

Nah. Mortal wound is 'No armour save'.

So do we know that S/T will be the same system as before, at least in general?

Like, will a S4 gun wound T7 on a 6, or will it be a 7 now? And is a 7 Shadow War-style 6+/4+ too?

>>52899125
Might have to make movement trays.

>>52899150
Its an unsavable wound. If Save Mod is coming back, I honestly hope they don't do mortal wounds.

>>52899150
Nah, just a wound you don't get a armor save against.

>>52899161
From what we've heard, it just caps out at needing a 6 if the gap in strength and toughness is wide enough. So even for S 1 against T 10 you just need a 6.