Reposting from other thread because I feel like it needs to be

>>52840173
>Reposting from other thread because I feel like it needs to be said.
Which bread? I agree with you, but I'm curious.

>>52840258

Almost dead. It was general discussion about the new addition, but this is one of the things that came up.

>>52833819

>>52840173
I wasn't aware there were plans to do this?

>>52840487

As far as I know, there's no plans to do this yet. But there's a small but loud part of the fanbase that's pushing for it. And GW is insisting that with the new addition they plan to make small updates every year and to base these on fan's input.

>>52840173
We need neither. SoBs and other feminine elements need to be removed from the game to purify it.

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>>52840599
>But there's a small but loud part of the fanbase that's pushing for it

Wait, litterally who ?
Also, pic related already exists. It would be completely redundant to do femmarines when Sororitas are a thing.

I believe that you are just trying to stir some shit up for some reason.

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>>52840173
To be honest, I don't really understand, why anoyne should want female space marines. I mean after all the implenations geneseed and stuff they get, wouldnt a female space marine just look like a normal space marine? I mean in fact, all you would get, is an extreme masucular, highly agressive woman with a shaved head?

>>52840725
Must be someone's fetish.
In doubt, I'll blame /d/ for this.

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>>52840605
Ah, a Gray Knights player are we?

>>52840173
>There is NO NEED for women Space Marines
and yet they are going to come along with gay and transgender marines, better get used to it shitlord

Canon fact there are already female born space marines but the genetic engineering and surgery make them almost indistinguishable from male space marines, what thought female space marines would have tits and long hair? Read your old school fluff kiddo

>>52840819
Gay and Trannie marines already exist, they're Slaaneshi traitors.

>>52840875
I mean, this sounds a bit dump now, but since the most astartes (Except Chaos and this one wolf) are asexuel, woulnd, the closest thing, they have to love, and maybe their compensation for it, the loyalty and comradrie to their brethren?

>>52840945
Try that again in English.

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>>52841027
I mean, this now sounds a bit silly, but as most of the Astartes (except chaos and this one wolf) are assexuel, would not the closest thing be to love for them the loyalty and comradeship to their brothers?

>>52840693

I'm not the one who brought it up in the other thread. It's definitely something that gets brought up from time to time in 40k threads.

>>52840819

Sexuality shouldn't even be a thing for 40k characters. It doesn't matter and doesn't add anything. Just make good characters that have cool models and are fun to paint and play.

>>52840693
Are you joking? There's a ton from the SJW communities that think this.
For fuck's sake, on the 1d4chan page for female space marines there's a notice to stop people from editing it for the sake of bitchfighting. AND there's a part in there that says "GW has more control of the setting than the Emperor does" so there's no reason not to have female space marines.
There was also video Arch Warhammer did on an article calling for this.

>>52840875
>>52840945
>>52841238
Aren't all the space marines trans anyway? I mean, it's mentioned that they're chem-gelded anyway, wouldn't it make sense to just chop it off and be done with it? It reduces the marine's weight and resource needs (not by much but every little bit helps), slims the power armor and requires less material to make one, and makes it WAY easier to use a catheter for situations when the marine can't leave his armor for days or weeks at a time.

>>52842792
Transexual implies you want to be of the opposite gender. It doesn't mean you are castrated.

>>52842831
Well I meant in the sense that they're more physically female than before but I probably should have worded it better than that.

>>52842858
I think the word you were aiming for was "asexual".

>>52840819
>transgender marines
Implying someone could have good enough genes to pass selection criteria, while their genetic code contained enough errors to be gender dysphoric
That isn't possible Anon.

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There is no need for Space Marines at all. Just put a bounty up.

>>52840173
>Define "Space Marine" as its own gender
>Have more of an argument than most made up gender "trans" people, since they actually transition
>Pronouns are he/him
>Win gender politics.

>>52842792
>a ton from the SJW communities

so...two? three?

>>52844176
Mate, there's literally one in an online group I'm in and two at my local gamestore. Go to any online 40k group on Tumblr (of which there are DOZENS) and you will find SJW influence in most of them. The only one that comes to mind which isn't that way is 40k Humour on Facebook.

>>52840173
The gender of most Space Marines is "Space Marine".

Their entire genetic structure is warped by the process of making them a Space Marine and their bodies physiology changed to such an extent that it shouldn't matter whether its a man or woman to start with, what you get out of it is a Space Marine.

When "Transitioning" to change your gender, you take Estrogen to become more Female, Testosterone to become more male

The Initiation of becoming a Space Marine (starting with a second heart) includes the implantation and gene alteration of your body to produce hormones to turn your bones to become ceramic, twice the size and bulletproof, while turning your ribs into a single flexile mass via the Ossmodula. Then you get a Biscopea to force muscle growth. A Haemastamen comes next to hyperheamogloblinate your blood so it can be safely hyperoxyginated to feed your new giant muscles. Then a Larraman's Organ for instant scar tissue. Then new brain architecture, a Catalepsean Node allowing a fragmented sleep cycle, with each part of your brain sleeping individualy, so you can go without true sleep for weeks. Then a Preomnor stomach. A Multi-lung allowing you to breath anything containing oxygen. An Occulobe that allows apothecaries to alter your eyes. A Lyman's Ear. A Sus-an Membrane. A Melanchromic Organ. An Oolitic Kidney. A Neuroglottis. Mucranoid. Betcher's Gland. Progenoids. And finally the Black Carapace to top it all of, allowing direct neural conection to a suit of Power Armour so it becomes part of your body.

A Space Marine is not human, and is only male for token ease of interaction with humans and ease of reference.

Sisters of Battle are nuns wearing (but not connected to) power armour. Not Space Marines.

>>52840945
>>52842792
Space Marines are not asexual or gelded, this information is absolutely incorrect. All SM's have fully working genitals, they just don't give a shit because there's stuff to kill, armor to polish etc.
There were even some legions/chapters that participated in sexual acts (Space Wolves).

>>52844223
ok, so three. [/sarcasm]

SJW and 1980s games don't mix. i doubt they see the series for the satire it is.

>>52844349
They ARE gelded, that's been in the canon for a while.

>>52844453
>i doubt they see the series for the satire it is.
That's the problem.

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People who complain about having no female space marines are just as bad as people complaining there aren't enough black space marines.

>>52844520

I realize it requires some brain power to see some of the more subtle critiques of modern society in the design, but I mean...you'd have to be pretty dense to not see how it portrays the death of creativity as the beginning of humanities extinction, right?

>>52844303

>Sisters of Battle are nuns wearing (but not connected to) power armour. Not Space Marines.

I know they're not Space Marines. My point is they don't need to be. One group is feminine and the other masculine, and that's ok. There's no need to try to force the other's sex or modern gender concepts onto either of them. SoB even wear boob plate, corset armor, and high heels to emphasize their femininity because it's important to the Ecclesiarchy for political reasons that they be women. So there absolutely can't be male SoBs. And since SoB are a women's club, it's only fair that Space Marines be allowed to continue to be a men's club. Trying to change that will lead to the factions losing what makes them unique. And it's already perfectly fair the way it is.

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>>52844640
SoBs will always be worse than Space Marines and you know it.

>>52844681
They'll also be better than run of the mill guard though.

>>52844580
http://outermode.com/warhammer-40k-queer-darkness-fetish-first-millennium

>>52844681
>the eagle is also squinting

>>52844695
*facepalm*
I applaud their creativity though.

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>>52844537
If a black man became a Space Marine, would he turn white or remain black?

From what I gather, the Gene-Seed only improves on the human male body, causing biological changes but leaving their genetic code intact, making it so that they have two sets of genetic codes, one on the human tissue and another on the Progenoid glands, but both of them do cause changes on their bodies.

The Space Marine skin is capable of producing high levels of melanin as needed when exposed to radiation, but would this also cause the skin to produce less melanin when not needed, could it make the baseline human level of melanin to go below it's original level if not exposed to radiation? Or in this case does the human part of the Space Marine organism take priority when not under dangerous levels of radiation allowing the melanin levels to remain high even if not necessary?

>>52844835
Salamanders

>>52844681

>women in highly stylized armor who have a ton of other duties besides fighting aren't quite as good at fighting as guys who are genetically made to be the best fighters

I don't see the problem. One of the things I'm trying to get at is that they shouldn't be exactly the same. Men and women can be equal as persons without being exactly the same at everything. Lorewise the SoB have hugely important duties that no one else can really do. And gameplay wise the SoB are a solid faction with one of the best heroes in the game. Old Celestine kicked butt, and new Celestine can still tank with the best even if she's less deadly.

>>52844835

>>52844835

Aren't Salamanders described as having skin colored like coal or something?

>>52844835
That's a good question and probably would end up being like the inverse of a salamander in that would be the case. They would probably have pale skin while maintaining whatever facial features they had before.
Though it may not be as simple as that since the Celestial Lions I believe are confirmed to be black skinned.

>>52844835
dunno
crimson fists were apparently more melanated than others

>>52844863
Women in highly stylised armour are those who fight, exclusively. It's in the name of their Ordos. Those aren't the Ordos who diplomance, heal or teach.

Also, you started off with "gusy they're totes equal in their unique ways!" and now you don't see the problem in women in their area of expertise being worse than men.

>>52844537
>People who complain about having no female space marines
won't have anything to complain about soon

>>52844863
you're confusing your sense of scale. the Sisters of Battle are -part- of the Adepta Sororitas. they fight, guard and pray, and those often overlap.

the other branches of the Adepta Sororitas are the ones who translate dialects and languages, tutor nobles, provide the common people with medication, etc.

the Sisters of Battle fill that niche between Space Marines and the Imperial Guard by being elite fighters with access to superior training and equipment, but they're still human. they die easily enough.

>>52844955
What about kasrkin and ogryns?

>>52845001

Karskin might be elite for the Guard, but they don't have power armor. just carapace armor. and they have Hellguns, sure, but Bolters are force multipliers.

Ogryns...are you serious? I know the Imperium is fucked but you don't want them to be responsible for entire crusades, do you?

>>52840173
Friendly reminder that Chaos gets easy access to female 'marines' either through Bike's Gene-seed tampering, warp magic nonsense to turn existing marines into women, or female cultists getting power armor and enough boons to be on par

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>>52845038
>you don't want them to be responsible for entire crusades, do you?
What's the worst that could happen. Just give them some high explosives and point 'em in the general direction of the heretic

>>52844955

>the other branches of the Adepta Sororitas are the ones who translate dialects and languages, tutor nobles, provide the common people with medication, etc.

I really wish those got more of a fluff showing. As I feel like that's one of the key differences between the Sisters and most other factions in the Imperium.

The SOB are not a purely military organization. They have a military part and a significant one but the Sisters effect on the Imperium is much bigger than just 'Shoots people'. They are more comparable to the Mechanicus than the Space Marines.

>>52844849
Salamanders are defective, their melanin is all the way up all the time.

>>52845143
I'd love to see Sisters Hospitaller more. Even better if they got a bigger role on the tabletop.

>>52845038
If Imperium uses child soldiers, then why not Ogryns?

>>52840173
>It's only fair that if there's all women's club that there be all men's club to.
kek, because all women's clubs are so common.

Also, the space marine models were around first, so your reasoning is backwards for that alone.

>>52844940

As >>52844955 pointed out, they fulfill their niche just fine. They're not worse.

>>52845143
I want to see the Dialogous and Famulous in action, as well. I've no interest in reading Dune.

hell, write me an inquisitor novel who uses the Orders as a recruiting ground at least. you can get an infiltrator from the Famulous who specializes in learning local customs in incredibly fast times, a Dialogous investigator who can crack codes up to and including Mechanicus Techna-Lingua, and a Hospitaller "medic" with no sense of empathy and a degree in torture.

>>52845182
Children have better manual dexterity than ogryns.

>>52845231
IG and SM are fine. SoBs are there because of Ecclesiarchial dick-assery.

>>52845263
sad but true.

>>52845171

Honestly, the non-militant orders would be generally a really good focus to add more toward in the TT to give the SOB more mechanical uniqueness.

You have a heap of odd, unique groups with unusual talents that are supportive to the battle sisters but don't directly compete with them so they'd make great 'Cheap independent characters you get a few of per slot'.

>Hospitalers handing out feel no pain.
>Dialogus improving morale/proving more psyker protection to a faction with no actual psykers (As they are keepers of forbidden lore/exorcists)
>Famulous using local connections and knowledge to grant the unit they join Infiltrate/Move through cover.
>Orders Pronatus being Sister Crypteks more or less. A model with unique access to weird and utterly arcane archeotech.

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>>52845263
So? Did you forget what is the most glorious, holy and best way of fighting?

>>52842989
>Chapter has genetic errors that make them into rampaging vampires, got it
>Chapter has genetic errors that turn them into super niggers, sure
>Chapter has genetic errors that turns them into furries, no problem
>Chapter has genetic errors that cause gender confusion
>THAT ISN'T POSSIBLE

>>52845326
>its so good an entire species of aliens refuses to use it except for EXACTLY ONE MEMBER

...no.

>>52845348
>measuring yourself by xeno standart
One tiny species that has less importance than Hrud, and is still forced to use another species as a screen for melee. Even Eldar are not this wussy.

Manual dexterity or not, children are far worse soldiers than Ogryns.

>>52845308
Being able to add Hospitallers onto more squads would be neat. I think it'd also be fun if you could buy a small squad if them with Infiltrate that has a VIP with them, and their goal is to do a medical evac and get them back to your lines.

What would also be a neat direction is Living Saints of the other types of Orders.

>>52845348
Ethereal train exclusively in close combat, and Commander Brightsword exists. Even Tau go for melee sometimes

>>52845485

I'm a bit hesitant about living saints of other orders as I worry it would degrade St Celestine's status a bit.

On the other hand: Special characters of the others would be awesome.

A Hospitaler that hands out Feel No Pain to her Squad and Eternal Warrior (So it's not negated by str 6+) to SOB in the same squad would be pretty cool. Pulling off medical miracles that most combat medics would be shocked are possible.

>>52844695
>http://outermode.com/warhammer-40k-queer-darkness-fetish-first-millennium

This is absolutely fucking hilarious. I love this article.

>>52845485
so like

Living Saint of Hospitaller- unit gains back all wounds or revives a single character once per game
Living Saint of Dialogous- target unit must use their lowest Leadership score for one turn (blame it on insanely loud hymns)
Living Saint of Famulous- target unit forced to reroll successful hits for one turn (blame it on knowledge of local combat techniques)

along those lines?

>>52845566

Honestly, the Hospitaler and Dialogus ones could be an 'Every turn' thing. Minor model recursion and the latter is actually a Warlord Trait iirc.

>>52845275

That's one of the things that makes them so cool. Their faithful nun aspect from the whole "no men under arms" thing adds to their unique aesthetic. But if GW made women Space Marines then it could detract from the Sisters. Not everyone would bother to differentiate between female Space Marines and the battle nuns in power armor. They might end up basically becoming just another Space Marine chapter. Even more so if, in the name of "equality" or trans-recognition or whatever, they start allowing men in the SoB.

The reason I love SoB is that they're tough and feminine. They're sexy could you model updates to show this better and very competent. The sort of people who insist it isn't fair not having women Space Marines are implying that women can't be both tough and feminine. They're insisting that women have to be masculine to be tough and competent. They're the real sexists.

>>52845689
>could you model updates
*use

>>52845206
Not OP, but we're not talking about in general, we're talking about 40k specifically.
And IN 40k specifically, there are MORE women's clubs than men's clubs.

Also, the order of the models has exactly zero to do with this since right now they both have models.

>>52845343
No, I think anon is saying that some one with the errors already present wouldn't be able to survive the process.

>>52845536
I think just FnP would be fine. It helps a lot against small arms fire. I think you are right about it devaluing living saints though.

>>52845594
>>52845566
What might be better would be to make them 2 wound HQs that are of similar rank to a Canoness in their respective Orders. Make them akin to Techmarines, Chaplains, or Librarians.

Hosiptaller can give 4+ FnP to the squad she joins and have her Act of Faith be to restore a unit to full models and wounds.

Dialogus can bolster all Leadership and reduce enemy's in some way.

Only thing I can think of for Famulous would be to tie in the act of securing alliances and make her close friends with a Knight Household or someone with a battleship, giving buffs to allied Knights or getting an unlimited use Orbital Bombardment

>>52845980

I think a Famulous could work easily as a variant of that Imperial Guard artillery officer that calls in off-board strikes (But rules-wise is basically a guy who is walking artillery). Give her a few really long range indirect attacks to represent her coordinating allied forces.

Partisan Ambush: Heavy 2, Str 9 AP 2
>Many members of mining clans are unwilling to give up their land and lives to enemy attack, preparing mining lasers in ambush ready to be triggered when foes approach.
Noble House Artillery Strike: Large Blast Str 8 AP 3
>The noble houses have strong ties to the Sisters Famulous, always willing to command their personal guard to provide support to the order.
IED Attack: Large Blast, Str 4 AP 5. Units that suffer a wound from an IED attack must take a pinning test on 3d6.
>Even the common man of the Imperium must be willing to strike back against invaders. Hidden bombs can be placed almost anywhere in preparation of enemy attack.

>>52844695
Honestly if it wasn't for that last infuriating bit where the author just couldn't stop herself from forcibly shoving in her political ideological bullshit, I would've been perfectly fine with that article

I agree wholeheartedly. these fucking degenerates are just trying to change everything to suit them, when clearly, this game wasn't made for them. This game was made for fans of metal music, crazy sci-fi, full blown badassery and FUCKIN WAAAAAAAAGH!! So what if they don't like it or agree with it. Fuck em.

>>52844835
Theres that one Librarian from DoW2 Chaos Rising who was black.

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>>52847447
Agree with you there.

>>52840173
>tfw no battle sister waifu

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>>52840173
I think SoB strike a good balance of femininity and badassery that FemMarines never could. Most of the fan-models/art of FemMarines are always either over-sexualized or look like female heads on male bodies.

Also >>52840725 this.

>>52845343
those other "errors" are actually good

>>52849328

Exactly. I don't see how it's a feminist position to insist that women characters either be helpless sex objects or basically men if they want to actually be competent, tough, or skilled at something. How's it feminist to say that you can't be feminine and strong at the same time!? That's literally sexist!

>>52840173
It's been said thousands of times. I agree with you for the most part, but please let this dead horse lie.

>>52840173
Hmm, I'm not a 40k player, but the way I see it, people are probably complaining because marines are the face of the game, so it makes women look extremely scarce.

>>52852357
Yeah despite the fact that at least one race in 40k is all female (Tyranids), while most factions are either mixed (Eldar, Imperial guard) or don't even have a gender (Orks and necrons)

>>52852396

>at least one race in 40k is all female (Tyranids),

...what?

>>52852224
Feminists are sexist as hell, news at eleven.

>>52852396
Well, you know, again, not a player. Marines are the most visible faction by a wide margin. They're probably the first thing people think about when they think 40k.
I don't personally think there's any problem with having gender-segregated factions sometimes, if the lore behind it is coherent enough. It gives them some flavour. Just that pushing them that much in comparison with the others is not necessarily a good idea.

>>52852487

I think when guys call feminists sexist, they usually mean that they're being sexist against men. But in this case they're being sexist against women and calling it "feminist"!

>>52852465
They are bugs that have armies of "clone" troops. This is how some of the pests on our planet act like that - females give birth to clones of themselves, that means they can reproduce asexually

>>52844520
>They ARE gelded, that's been in the canon for a while
they can be later on but its not a stabdard procedure.
In death watch you had to level up once or twice before a marine could get it done.

>>52840173
[autistic screeching intensifies]

>>52852777
most nids a genderless, thet only have the organs they need to fight. Often they don't even have a digestive tract as they're simply not intended to live long enough to need one. Norn queens are specifically noted as female.
its been stated hormagaunts if left isolated on a planet will develop genders and start sexually reproducing to increase their numbers to become a bigger threat/beacon for a hivefleet.

>>52847447
Same here. There's definitely some truth to her argument, considering that the Lion was named after a gay poet, the Dark Angels after one of his homoerotic poems and the Rock (possibly) after a gay bar. The hyper-masculinity in 40k has always been a little bit ridiculous and parodic.

>>52852694
The way I understand it, some feminists want to embrace their femininity without being seen as weak oras sex objects, but others believe the concept of femininity is oppressive and hate women who choose to be traditionally feminine. There's probably not many of the former who play 40k, but those who do will probably like the SoB. The latter, whether they play 40k or not, will want to change it so it supports their politics.

>>52853032

The latter are insane. Men and women are different. I have absolutely no desire to be a man or just like one.

>>52852224
You haven't met a lot of them. They'll say that YOU are the sexist by assuming that those space marine traits HAVE to be femenine and for "basically men". Entering the realm of masculine-femenine probably is already gonna make you enter the realm of sexism if they don't previously consider you "one of them", although they rarely negate the existance of femminity explicitly.

>>52854654
that those space marine traits HAVE to be masculine and can't be considered femenine, sorry

>>52853032
They hate the concept of masculinity too. The thing is that they loathe the concept of gender limiting your options and creating assumptions. This is kinda okay by itself, since in theory it includes the defense of those who want to freely choose to be what we traditionally consider to be femenine. The problem is that human minds and political movements don't work like that. Such a complex approach can work for individuals but for masses you need a simpler slogan. Negating femminity (either just traditional or the concept of it existing) is easier.

>>52854763
This is why OP's argument will never work by the way. There will be always that guy to ask "and who says this is masculine?"

>>52854763
>>52854812

I'm not saying women can't be masculine and men can't be feminine if they choose, but those concepts clearly exist and always have. And it's sexist to claim women have to be masculine in order to be considered successful or good at anything.

>>52842792
Arch warhammer is a lefty cuck

Pardon my /pol/ishness

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>>52855335
>I'm not saying women can't be masculine and men can't be feminine if they choose
A masculine woman is disgusting
A feminine man is acceptable

>>52855768
No.

>>52845343
Those other errors are with the geneseed, not the individual.

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>>52856050
Yes

>>52853283
Ignoring gender dysphoria because I think you already knew about that, there are reasons you'd want to be more masculine. Not trying to defend /those/ feminists that anon was talking about, but women like that exist without being insane.

>>52855482
>lefty cuck
Have you SEEN HIS FUCKING VIDEOS?!!
Holy shit dude, that guy is so anti-SJW and anything even remotely that direction it's not even funny.

>>52842792
The reason to not have female space marines is setting. That's like saying "I don't want the Imperium to be a National Socialist state because that's not inclusive."

You're complaining about a small thing in the setting that, while not necessarily large, is part of the setting and established. If you want space marines to be all gender-inclusive, you better also start advocating for the Imperium to stop being the most hilariously repressive state one can imagine.

>>52857748
Gender dysforia is a rare exception that less than 1% of people have

>>52859136
Yeah. And women who want to be manly are also rare. The scale isn't anywhere near exact, obviously, but you get my point. That's why I didn't correct that anon by saying "YOU FORGOT THIS HURR."