/osrg/ OSR General — Origins

I don't understand demographics and power levels.

You say in old-school gaming your character isn't special. But in order for that to be true, there'd need to be a whole lot of high-level characters running around: at least 5th level city guards and all that. And that shit sounds like what you get in Pathfinder and 4e.

Where's the fine line? What's a good balancing point? How many high-level dudes is truly good, and at what point -do- player characters in fact become special?

>>52769542
Hot opinions coming up. Its an oversimplification. People say something like 'your character isn't special' to distance themselves from 3.pf's character build orientation and to highlight early game mortality rather than comment on the demographics of generic-old-school-fantasylandia.

Its a much better idea to not worry about demographics very much at all. That way lay madness and autism. If you're really interested, randomly generate a hex map with castles, villages, armies, bandits, and appropriately leveled clerics, fighting men, etc. for each. Then try and figure out how they found the gold, spent it and gained xp, but the treasure disappeared and they're still bandits.

Levels are an abstraction, and not one that necessarily has to apply to everyone. The town guards fight as a level 1 fighting man, but they aren't pc's with character sheets taking levels in fighting man.

>>52769542
>5th level guards have never been a part of d&d until 4e!!!

Yeah, no. I get that a lot of y'all don't like 4e but stow that bullshit.

>>52769542
>>52769679
If you really care about demographics, get ACKs

>Thread topic: Arneson or Gygax?
I think Arneson brought better ideas to the table than Gygax, but then he stopped and Gygax was the one who actually designed most of the game. I have a soft spot for lesser known co-creators, though, so I think I'll go with Arneson if I have to choose.

>>52769681
I mean obviously they've been around longer, but it was PF and 4e where they became truly prevalent, and they're the systems my mind always connects with this sort of a thing, however true it actually is.

>>52769699
Wouldn't it be easy enough to import the ACKS demographics table to just about any other OSR system?

>>52769699
I basically use steadings from DW&Perilous Wilds

>>52769454
>Thread topic: Arneson or Gygax?
Arneson

>>52769542
your character isn't special = can be killed / not a special snowflake

>>52769699
>Play ACKs™
This!

>>52769734
>Wouldn't it be easy enough...
No! ACKS is the best retroclone, play ACKS!

>>52769454
>Arneson or Gygax?
Gygax for sure... Arneson was a complete dick

>>52769940
>Arneson was a complete dick
both were dicks

>>52769879
>ACKS is the best retroclone, play ACKS!

I think ACKS is great and all, but there are other things worth salvaging in other retroclones.

Why not run B/X or maybe AD&D as the base, while picking up other things you like from the retroclones like a nice buffet table of books?

I'm starting a short campaign, the plan is:
>PCs finish intro dungeon (quasqueton)
>whenever they sleep in a dungeon, or when the game is slowing down, or in general whenever I like, they dream with a horrible place (tomb of horrors) in a forgotten place under a total eclipse
>they can explore it with the current items they have (so, jammies if they are resting in a city)
>dying in the dream (or waking suddenly) = restless night, no recovery
>items spent, lost of broken in the dream are gone out of it.
>they can't wake up while inside the tomb
>they start the dream at the entrance, not entering ends the dream and they get full rest (in short, it's optional)
>soon they find & enter death frost doom (or another dungeon with 'you were destined to be here!' and 'PCs trigger apocalypse!' - which they do)
>doing so causes eclypse
>campaign end in tomb of horrors, PCs around 4-6th level

Good idea? They are new players, so they know *nothing* about ToH.
yes, it could be any other dungeon, but ToH relies on player skill and meta spoilers...which they'll learn 'safely' but at the expense of game resources

>>52770136
Sounds fun and a neat way to let people figure out high fatality dungeon crawling. How are you going to do XP? Also what are you going to do if some characters don't go in the dreamscape?

Looking for a one shot, simple plot and dungeon, that I'll run at a convention

>>52770426
Just make your own if it's going to be a short, simple dungeon.

>>52769879
>t. Macris

>>52770136
I like the idea of tomb of horrors with respawns. The worst part about it is making 15 new characters before you finish

>>52770271
>XP
It's a dream - they are getting info on a super-highly lethal dungeon relatively for free -- the one that ends the campaign no less. No XP.
Anyway I don't think you can get XP there being a puny low level bloke - and treasure can't be brought from the dream anyway.
>split party
They are missing out? They get a full rest, and the ones that go in have less meat to chunk into traps. Or they stand guard, and wake the others if there's trouble.
The game is fairly meta (you can tell right?) so they will be cheering/booing like bitches, I don't think they will get bored at all.

>>52770426
B1 In Search of the Unknown is great, but you'll have to stock it beforehand and use a simplified map - both things can be found already made for you on dragonsfoot.org
Whatever you run it, try to skip sloooowwwly crawling in boring, empty corridors. Not fun, and takes lots of irl time.

>>52770524
Nah, they play with their characters, except they don't really die.
And if I change my mind, I can always click http://character.totalpartykill.ca/basic/ & GO GO GO.

>>52769454
>Arneson or Gygax?
Nnnngiiieeeehhhh I'll say Arneson just because I really like how Blackmoor was set up, as a wargame/dungeoneering mix thing, and because there's a sort of cheerful whimsy in FFC and other bits that's really appealing. "Baron Jenkins", "the Great Svenny", Baron Fant becoming Sir Fang the vampire, it just refuses to take itself seriously in a really pleasing way, none of this MUH IMMERSION faggotry.

I'd say it's pretty unquestionable that Gygax wrote most if not all the rules we know, though, and there are more than enough reports of Arneson being a favoritist to make it hard to respect that side of his refereeing as well. Probably if I were less of an LBBfag I'd be more inclined to say Gygax.

>>52769542
>at least 5th level city guards and all that
That kind of stuff shows up as early as the City-State, and there it seems based on pretty much what Bledsaw considered necessary to keep mid-high level guys in order in supplemented OD&D (or AD&D). Strictly by the book, though, town guards and watchmen should be non-leveled men at arms, who roll to hit as Normal Men; even a level 1 Fighting-Man is superior to them (hence the name of Veteran). It's also worth noting that even a level 9 Fighter can get in deep shit against a squad of the town watch in old-school D&D; you don't have *that* many HP.

>>52769542
>But in order for that to be true, there'd need to be a whole lot of high-level characters running around: at least 5th level city guards and all that. And that shit sounds like what you get in Pathfinder and 4e.
But there are plenty of higher-level characters, friend. In your generic bandit band of 30-300 bandits, there'll be levelled fighting men: up to ten 4th level, up to six 5th or 6th level, up to three 8th or 9th level, and on top of that possibly an 8th level cleric and a 10th or 11th level magic-user. Every single one of them has a chance of magic items - even the basic 4th level guy has a 20% chance of magic armour, 20% chance of a magic shield, and 20% chance of a magic weapon.

A bare minimum bandit group has 30 bandits lead by a 4th level fighting man with decent odds of a magic item.

The average town guardsman might not be that experienced, but there are definitely people out and about with levels.

>>52769699
>>52769734
>>52769879
>>52770028
+1 ACKS. My favourite along with OD&D.

>>52769879
>>52770746
What makes ACKS so great? What's it got that the other retroclones, or vanilla B/X, don't have?

>>52769542
The name/title for 1st level fighters is "veteran."
Even in armies, most NPCs are 0th level.

NPCs through 3rd level aren't an oddity, but even 2nd level NPCs are uncommon.

>Where's the fine line?
Someone posted a /REALLY GOOD/ rule-of-thumb recently.
I'll see if I can find it for you.

And bear in mind, anyone at 9th level is famous (or at least well-known).
It's "name level" because your name has spread across the land.

>>52769454
>shilling LOTFP
>even ironically
*tips fedora*

>>52769143
>I'd be curious to hear your explanation to how half-orcs, of all things, are a mary sue race.
muh tortured family life
muh evil heritage
muh marginalization
muh misunderstood by society
muh heart of gold

Half-orcs paved the way for tiefling, non-evil drow, and half-dragon/half-fiend/half-celestial half-ogre PCs

>>52769542
I've always kinda assumed that level 1-3 are nothing special but beyond that you start to become special. At level 10 you're basically a celebrity, and at level 20 you're a living legend or quest-giver that people will seek out.

>>52771117
>muh tortured family life
>muh evil heritage
>muh marginalization
>muh misunderstood by society
>muh heart of gold
>Half-orcs paved the way for tiefling, non-evil drow, and half-dragon/half-fiend/half-celestial half-ogre PCs

None of that makes them Mary Sues. They're only Mary Sues once the entire world loves them inexplicably and they succeed in everything they do.

>>52770834
>I'll see if I can find it for you.
OK. Well... I cannot.

The jist was "use a region's budget (or loose change?) to approximate the xp of high level NPCs have accumulated."
It makes the concession that the it only finds lower bounds (the best in town might be the best in the province, the best in the country might be the best on the continent, etc.) but it's quick, and it's easy, and it works.

>>52769454
>Thread topic: Arneson or Gygax?
Arneson had better ideas, but wrote too little about what he meant.
Gygax was mostly chaff, and wrote too much about what he meant.

Arneson's work is the tattered remains of some gossamer majesty.
It's disgusting just to look at, [insert Tolkien quote about the world diminishing].
Gygax's work is at least food for thought.

>>52771117

Fuck you, LotFP is great.

>>52771240
>wrote too much about what he meant
More like "he wrote on essay on what was obvious in two sentences and wrote two sentences on what was opaque without an essay"

>>52769542

In OD&D there are a fair number of high level characters running around by default. High level fighters will ride out of their castle and demand a joust, high level wizard step out of their towers to cast Geas on you and send you off on an errand to repay your trespassing, and high level clerics can demand tithes or send you on a holy quest.

>>52771262
Don't respond to bait.

>>52771117
>and at level 20 you're a living legend or quest-giver that people will seek out.
Going to have to disagree with you here.

At level 12, you're great enough that after a few centuries of oral tradition you'll be mistaken for a demigod.
At level 15, you've probably had several cults form independently of each other during your lifetime.

>>52770618
>it just refuses to take itself seriously in a really pleasing way, none of this MUH IMMERSION faggotry.
The first PC M-U, "the Wizard of the Wood," cast (threw) spells by casting (throwing) basketball-sized "superberries."
He also bred dragons during downtime.

>>52771358
Agreed (and not the guy you were replying to), but this one anti-Raggi baiter's become annoyingly active in the general lately, and talking as though his garbage were the thread's consensus beliefs or some shit. It's not strange that people can't resist telling him to go fuck himself now and then.

>>52770558
>No XP.
You want them to go there, you should use xp to encourage good behavior.
>and treasure can't be brought from the dream anyway.
So give xp for anything they take to the edge.
Note what they've done that with. On futures passes, replace it with whisky azure illusions of the treasure (so they don't double up on easy pickings).
>I don't think they will get bored at all.
It's fine as long as they contribute to the decision making, I guess.

>>52771447
>The first PC M-U, "the Wizard of the Wood,"
The Wizard Gaylord, natch. (Played by Pete Gaylord. Still funny)
>cast (threw) spells by casting (throwing) basketball-sized "superberries."
I know. (Not just throwing either, there's a quote of Arneson saying that he won't reveal the mechanics of the Superberries because the players have far from discovered them all yet, but that they can be mashed, dried, brewed into wine, etcetera.) I also know they only happened because Arneson's HO-scale orange trees were losing their oranges, and due to the minis being smaller scale the oranges ended up being relatively the size of pumpkins.

>>52771579
I get that people get annoyed, but the faster people stop responding to him, the faster he'll stop.

>>52771262
>>52771358
>>52771579
$0.01 has been deposited to your drivethrurpg account.

>>52771308
>high level wizard step out of their towers to cast Geas on you
By-the-book, they only do that if you step into their towers.

>>52771670

Ignoring him hasn't stopped him shitting up the threads with his hot opinions yet. Ignoring's fine, but it's better to report and hide.

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>>52771767
if you ignored him I wouldn't have to deal with you inane prattle.

>>52771803
>that pic
I lost it

>>52771767
>WAAAAAAAH STOP TALKING BAD ABOUT MY HIPSTER GAME THIS IS MY SAFESPACE REEEEEEE

Eat shit. If I can call OD&D shit, call Gygax an asshat, and call 1e a pile of hot garbage then I can badmouth your favorite avant-garde shitbrew. If you don't like it, go elsewhere.

>>52771901
I don't know, if I were to just brought up that any of those things were objectively terrible, without any provocation to do so, and kept going over many threads in a row, I'd imagine people to be justifiably annoyed by it as well.

Hey /osrg/, I had an idea for a different way to handle attacks and damage in D&D and I'm just curious what you think of it. Replace the attack roll with a to-hit roll, and then add a to-wound roll. What I was thinking was something like an expanded version of 40k's to hit and to wound table, using a d20 for to-hit and d10 for to-wound. Skill (level) bonuses would be towards to-hit, while strength and weapon variables would be modifiers to-wound. Damage would be a d3 with modifiers roll on a scale of 1-6, where 1 is a minor wound, 2 is a concern but not fight ending, 3 is a big deal but you could probably tough it out, 4 is fight ending and possibly lethal, 5 is defenitely fight ending and likely lethal, and 6 is immediate death. To me this seems to help resolve some of the oddities of full plate making you harder to hit but not reducing damage at all and so on. Any thoughts?

>>52771963
>>52771963
>I'd imagine people to be justifiably annoyed by it as well.
And? /tg/ isn't your hugbox. The fact there is more than one person complaining about LOTFP (for example, I wasn't the guy complaining about Raggi's lack of ecology) shows that this isn't the work of a lone shitposter but the opinion of a plurality. And at least I have the decency to sage when I shit on LOTFP.

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>>52772011
>/tg/ isn't your hugbox.

No, but it doesn't warrant you just coming here to fling shit, over and over again, for no fucking reason. Like you're the only one here that's somehow enlightened enough to see how terrible something is, and you just can't shut up telling the rest of us about it.

/tg/ is not a hugbox, but you, my friend, are shit.

>And at least I have the decency to sage when I shit on LOTFP.

You know saging does nothing, right?

>>52772009
>adding pointless extra rolls
>making HD and therefore levels even more worthless
>making thieves and wizards even easier to kill

I think you should just play WHFRP instead.

>>52772054
>tumblr filename
>impact text
>STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT WHAT I LIKE

whoa . . . so this is . . . the brain power . . . of loftp drones . . . not bad . . .

>>52772115
Tell me what you like and I will proceed to tell you it's objectively terrible every time you say a bad thing about LotFP.

>>52772011
>sage
Nobody uses the Front Page, because the Catalog is a thing that exists.
Nobody sets the Catalog to "Bump Order," because "Last Reply" helps catch the dying breath if auto-sage threads.

>>52772137
I love B/X. Have fun shitposting, brainlet.

>>52772137
Tomboys, reverse traps, DFC, bondage, lolis, and some /d/ stuff I won't post anonymously.

>>52772169
Oh, cute, you like the untested unpolished beta version of a potentially good game.

I don't even know why you'd rather have that than something that's actually fixed it up. You must have brain damage.

Do you guys know any saving throw systems that aren't classic "death ray", 3e F/R/W, 5e ability score base, or S&W single number?

>>52772009
It doesn't reduce damage because rolls to hit, ac and damage are abstractions of a chunk of time in melee rather than a single attack.

I like some of the harm clock stuff that's happening with your damage scale though. How would you apply it to things that aren't humanoid, and how does leveling make you tougher? Would that still be a thing?

>>52772210
I can't think of a single TSR edition they wasn't either polished or tested.
...maybe the shovelware modules and some of the latter 2e stuff.

>call 3.PF shit
>3.PFcucks flip out and say you just hate it because it's popular and tell you to stop shitting on their game

>call LotFP shit
>LotFPcucks flip out and say you just hate it because it's popular and tell you to stop shitting on their game

Such a suspicious symmetry really gets my synapses sizzling.

>>52772350
>call AD&D shit
>AD&Dfags say, it "works if you play my shitty homebrew and /pretend/ it's AD&D"

>>52772350
I don't much care for either system, I just still wonder why you'd bother coming here to just shovel shit in our way.

Nobody asked for it, we're just trying to talk about stuff.

At least tell us what's so terrible about LotFP and how would you change the OP post. What other ruleset would you put up on the paragraph in question, to "clarify and expand upon the principles of old school gaming"?

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>>52772407

Why are you trying to engage with a blatant shitposter like he's not cranked the trolling up to 11?

>>52772407
>Nobody asked for it, we're just trying to talk about stuff.
How about you stop responding to bait and talk about stuff then? The thread has been nothing other than this shitflinging so far. Several questions and topics have been ignored because of your pointless bullshit bickering. Just ignore him.

>>52772438
>>52772475
If he refuses to answer the question, then I will know he has nothing to add to any topic and will ignore him accordingly.

If he does answer it, then the discussion will be over anyway and we can continue.

How 2 write a Lamentations of the Fire Princess module
>1. steal a concept from European module that dumb Americans have never heard of. if you can't then pick uh a house, farm, or tower
>2. set the adventure in Europe c.1700 except with magic and elves because I'm subverting medieval fantasy aren't I 2clever4you
>3. make one of the encounters be with a penis or vagina monster OR make the treasure rare luxury dildoes
>4. include an area where the party gets hopelessly lost, a trap automatically hits them without chance of detection or save, or any other suitable railroad
>5. throw in encounters at random with no regards for ecology and interactions
>6. include some random inconspicuous item that deletes all magic/flips the world upside-down/kills all elves
>7. include lots of art of women getting injured and/or killed in gruesome ways
>8. collect dosh

>>52772486
LOFTP and ACKS don't clarify shit, they make shit up. They're glorified houserules. It's like saying that a fanfic explains the plotholes of a movie.

I'm noticing a trend here, I think it goes-

>shitposting and trolling storm
>calm
>new, naive people come and see how nice is usually this thread
>niceness increases
>somebody flames, new kids are baited, shit escalates in seconds
>repeat

why not ignore this shit? honest question.

I like you better when we create gameable content, /osrg/

>>52772570
>I like you better when we create gameable content, /osrg/

We were supposed to make a granny dungeon. Can we go back to that?

>>52772570
>spoiler
I agree, and we had something interesting going in the beginning of last thread. Maybe I should compile and see of anons here want to keep working on it.

>>52772605
Can someone collect what we have so far? Need to eat something, bbl with fresh ideas

>>52772605
/osrg/ content is mostly a thing people make on their own and bring here. Sometimes you can get ideas here. Making the op question about a random table or content oriented instead of opinions helps too.

Post overpowered stone rock /osrg/ has gotten different, but here has always been a holding pen for people who will eventually learn enough and get it together enough to make a blog/game, and people who will complain about that blog/game.

>>52772628
I'll do it. Give me a minute.

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>>52772570
Greetings, newfriend!

>>52772783
well? Who IS 4chan?

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Dungeon premise: a small hut wherein a kindly old grandmother lives, turns out to be surprisingly spacy with enough room for all manner of weird creatures to live in the walls, the basements, the cupboards, and the attics. They have alliances and rivalries and feuds, but no one touches the grandmother because she's the only one that brings in the groceries.
The grandmother has no idea any of them exist, and refuses to believe it.

This is because it is the failing trans-dimensional travel pod of a long dead alien, if you enter through the front door it is a normal hut, but if one enters through a hidden portal from the cellar, then it will seem as if you have shrunk down to an inch high, and the grandmother has become monolithic. This bizarre effect allows you to access the rest of the pod, which stretches on for miles (or a couple of feet for the grandmother)

>grandma is half-ogress but nice one
>however her house applies with a parallel dimension where her house is 100x times larger
>the monsters in the walls, the basements, the cupboards, and the attics all seem to be miniature versions
>1' monster in dimension = 5" in normal reality
>PCs get shrunk
>they must survive and find a way back to normal reality

but where them goblins at??
Clearly the goblins live in the walls. They've been shrunk too.
There should definitely be rats. And goblins. What else?
Ravens right outside the window. When the dimensional fuckery is going on, they too can be massive and dangerous.

1/2

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>>52772861

A miserable pile of shitposts! But enough meta-discussion, have at you!

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>>52772903

Mason jars of preserved homunculi, labled after the strange fruits they were reduced and extracted from. The jars can be opened and the creatures inside given commands that they follows with malevolent literal mindedness.
>Urchin Custard, a wet dripping thing that giggles and sticks.
>Skull Candy, a grinning face with tiny legs, agreeing with you sweetly.
>Peach, Plum, Pear, three fey with insectoid features and bad manners.
>Black Meat, a twisted wretch with needy hands eager to strangle.
>Memory Jelly, the quivering mass of opaque forms that remains familiar but wrong.
>Humour Pickle, eyeballs that bounce and roll as a mass of judgemental stares.
I imagine them in the darker recesses of the pantry, pressing against their glass. Like they really want out. The local factions know about them, but have already learned not to use them. Players probably aren't as wise, or are more clever in their instructions than a bunch of goblins living under a stove armoured in pots and pans.

>giant ravens (pteradon stats)
>giant mice (dire wolf stats)
>granny is vaguely aware of her "little helpers" and loves soiled plates on a special table
>the shrunk creatures gather any food from here
That's all we got so far. What next? Got any ideas of what should be in that dungeon? How about making a map of that implied dollhouse? More info on factions? Where can you go in the house?

>>52769542
Read The Keep on the Borderlands. Almost every area has some character with class levels and +1 or +2 gear. There's no reason NPCs haven't killed monsters and amassed treasure too, it's just that you don't start out as a superhero by virtue of being a PC.

>>52772903
>however her house applies with a parallel dimension where her house is 100x times larger

Man, I wrote this part and re-reading it sounds retarded. What I went to say was.
>granny's house occupies the same point in space (but necessarily time) as a parallel dimensionlet
>this dimensionlet contains an exact copy of granny's house but at a greatly increased scale
>inhabitants of the dimension can't be perceived by people in granny's house but they can see people and things in granny's house
>very small creatures (rats, birds, and bugs) can perceive the dimension's inhabitant and prey on them

>>52772951
>and leaves soiled plates on a special table
If there's a slight time difference between the house and the dimension then maybe from the perspective of the inhabitants there's a "great feast" every other day. The inhabitants scale the winding tunnels carved within the table's legs to stake a claim to a specific plate, cup or utensil if they're unlucky.

>>52773060
>What I went to say was.
What you meant to say is worse.
Maybe the granny is a giant. She never leaves the house, but her quarter-giant grandchildren bring her food.
There are rumors in the village that the granny is a giant, but the village only sees her "normal sized" from windows or the door frame.

>>52773211
>What you meant to say is worse.
t-thanks

What's the best way to get a feel for Mystara? The gazeteers seem intimidating. Is there some sort of overview mini-gazeteer?

>>52772281
My initial thought is something like levelling gives you "wounds" to use at your discretion. Fighters get 1/level, MUs 1/2levels, etc. Each wound reduces damage by one level, but they are applied after damage is calculated. So you could save them to reduce level a 4 wound to a level 2 or 3 and keep fighting. I'm making this all up on the fly though. For larger creatures I'd probably just apply a penalty to the damage roll to represent the difficulty of landing a fight-ensing blow on a giant using a man sized sword.

>>52773343
>Is there some sort of overview mini-gazeteer?
Yes, actually: one of the Rules Cyclopedia's appendices is an overview of the Known World.

(One of the reasons I consider it the best D&D edition -- it may not have perfect rules, but it's just so damn *complete*.)

>>52773343
Mystara is actually pretty bad honestly. It's a patchwork world with about as much consistency as Golarion. At least the Hollow World has the excuse of "Immortals did it" to explain the artificial feeling of it.

>>52773295
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79DijItQXMM

>>52773348
Yeah, that makes sense. I was imagining a really awkward circular overlay with fractions for size, but its probably easiest to just include size as armour/damage reduction.

Using wounds as free hits works, but might again just be simpler to add them to the 1-6 range. Or even just call it a hitdice to keep terminology familiar. Hrm. You could do something like each HD you have when you level is an actual d6 that you spin down when you get hurt. Like a level 3 fighter has 3hd so 3d6 that need to get damaged through. Probably have to crunch numbers for a bit at this point.

>>52773617
For clarity's sake, when i was thinking of damage I was picturing it as its own thing. Each damage level would have specific penalties if you kept fighting with that wound. I was aiming for something that had the potential to end the fight in one hit, or end up as a slugfest of gradually accumulating wounds. I do like the idea of hit dice adding extra wound tracks somehow. I'm not exactly sure how to implement it, but i like the thought that a 5 hd hero could survive a killing blow with his heroic resolve. I think handing out 1 HD per level might be too much though. I'd still like a high level of lethality. >>52773617

>>52774042

To further clarify my own point, having a level one wound and recieving another level one wound wouldn't push you up to a level two wound, you'd just have two level one wounds, and the penalties would stack.

>>52769679

This right here.

The farmer boy in the village gets a +2 to hit when using simple weapons and 3d6 HD when on his own plot of land due to his spiritual connection to it and strong body, not because of any leveled abstraction or dungeon crawling experience.

>>52774082
Neat. Gets weird though. What happens if you get 6 level 1 wounds? Would armour be able to totally reduce a hit's damage? Also how long are your combat rounds?

>>52774082
Sorry so many questions. Its just similar but different than a thing I've been kicking around in the back of my head for a while. Basically simplifying damage and hitpoints to 'how often you can get hit with a sword' but still trying to make going up in levels give you some added survivability.

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How much do you guys like non-medieval style OSR?

Stuff like Into the Odd or Stars without Number? I'm a big fan of the modern fantasy gonzo stuff myself.

>>52774253
Having six level one wounds is a bad time. You'd have stacking penalties for all wounds, so at that point you'd be in pretty rough shape. Not "about to die" kind of rough, more like "about to collapse/be useless in a fight." The inspiration for this is the way song of swords handles wounds, which is very all or nothing. SoS tracks pain, bleed, and stun from each wound. I was just thinking a -1 penalty to hit per level of wound, stacking between wounds.

How fleshed out are your NPCs?

Mine: name & rank & why PCs care (quest, shop, enemy?), level, looks (armor+arms and how they are concealed?).
Important or recurring NPCs get a couple of lines with a story and a goal.

I'm terrible I know, maybe I just need some good motivation tables or soemthing, I just can't get arsed. I'd rather think about monsters and traps.

>>52774406
Questions help. I'm at the stage where i have the idea in mind but it hasn't fully formed into coherent rules. It's like a big glob of intent at this point.

Do you have arcade-inspired adventures?

I remember a pacman one-page-dungeon, but I can't seem to find it (there's LOTS ffs).
And I remember reading about a 'pinball wizard' dungeon, with bouncers, rolling boulders and the lot.

p o s t ' e m

>>52774602
I'm doing a scifantasy thing right now. SWoN has a lot of tables I like. Into The Odd looks fun, but haven't had a chance to play it. The tables for starting gear seem useful regardless of system.

I'm late to the boat on this video, but its gonzo af.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JJsq0GbpPg

>>52774603
I'll take a look at Song Of Swords, thanks. I'm into flash/grit from Wolfpacks & The Winter Snow as an all or nothing damage resolution method. I have to check with my players too, because I like the idea of more streamlined damage, but they're probably like rolling dice and I need to have some of that too.

>>52774876
Fair warning, SoS is a very crunchy game. It's pretty much anti-OSR. It's a goldmine of ideas though.

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>>52769454
Hi /osrg/, new old-school player here. I'm running a 5e campaign and am having a rollicking good time, but we're approaching the endgame soon enough. Once the story concludes, I'm pretty much done with 5e for a good long while.

But I still want to run games. So I decided to go way back. I'm thinking a prequel campaign set hundreds of years before--and consequently, running OD&D (using Chainmail for combat).

I've done my best to interpret the arcane syntax, but I have a few questions that I'd like some input on:

>What's the point of the "% chance of survival" for CON? Is it not superseded by Saving Throws?
>How do you apply modifiers? A Fighting Man (Warrior) rolls 2d6 and adds +2 to one die--simple--but what of Elves or Halflings? Greyhawk says they gain +1 to Swords/Bows and +3 to Slings (respectively), but do you add it to just one die, or all? Are they only intended for the Alternative system?

Also: Looking at the Chainmail rules and the wording of "dice for accumulative hits", I've wondered about the original intent of a 'hit'. Was "all hits are 1d6 damage" perhaps only intended for the Alternative matrix?

ex. A Veteran (Man+1, 7 HP) fights a troll (6 Men+3). If the Troll lands 5 hits, normally that spells disaster (5d6 damage). But what if, going by Chainmail, it meant the Fighter only lost 5/7 HP?

>>52774934
>running OD&D (using Chainmail for combat).

Why do you hate yourself. Just use B/X and save yourself some sanity.

>>52775036
some people like how chainmail combat moves seamlessly from individual encouters to large scale army battles

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>>52774934
(cont.)

>Halflings, per Chainmail, get a 3-for-2 ratio on missile fire. This basically makes their ranged Fighting Capability improved 1.5x (round down). But can this stack with the +3 for Slings, or are they intended to be mutually exclusive?
>Same goes for Elves--+3 FC versus Goblins, +2 FC versus Orcs

The rest of the books I think I can work with. OD&D is pretty freeform, which is a blessing a curse, but I love the potential in Chainmail combat. If ever I want them, there's rules for weapon speeds, threat ranges, charging, flanking, rear attacks, fatigue, terrain, inclines, indirect fire, move-shoot-move, readied fire, and spell complexity. I love that.

Generally, I want to hew as close to the original intent of the rules as possible. I understand that every OD&D table is bound to be different, but I'd love to be able to share "the" OD&D without sacrificing clarity or enjoyment.

>>52769734
Demographics of Leveled Characters
Level Frequency Possible Realm
1 1 in 20 Extended Family
2 1 in 50 Hamlet
3 1 in 150 Small barony
4 1 in 375 Barony or village
5 1 in 1,000 Small march or large village
6 1 in 3,000 March or large town
7 1 in 8,000 County or city
8 1 in 20,000 Large county or city
9 1 in 60,000 Duchy or large city
10 1 in 160,000 Small principality or metropolis
11 1 in 450,000 Principality
12 1 in 1,200,000 Small kingdom
13 1 in 3,250,000 Kingdom
14 1 in 10,000,000 Empire

>>52772238
Bumping my question

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>>52775054

This, basically. My intent was to have the prequel campaign lend a "historic" flair by detailing the progression of the unclaimed borderlands, wars of the crowns, civil disputes, etc. from the perspective of adventurers. And they'd have the chance to progress to a point where they aren't just PARTICIPANTS in those battles, they could be the ones calling the shots. And Chainmail has native support for that, and I love it for that.

>>52775112
According to this, New York would be almost big enough for two level 14 characters.

Epic modern fantasy gang war is go!

>>52773434
>Mystara is actually pretty bad honestly
No.
>pachwork
How is that bad? It just means more and more varied content.
Some gazeteers are bad sure but most are great.

>>52775525
>How is that bad?
Because it's lazy, terrible worldbuilding.

>It just means more and more varied content.
Quantity doesn't trump quality.

Can someone good at math tell me how rules like "You may reroll but must take the new result, even if it is lower than the original" effect die probabilities?

>>52775717
This is dnd, so there is a gssdaofj of wowwowwowow in the and you can always embellish the vague discriptions to provide fun for the players.

>>52774082
Vaguely reminds me of Rolemaster crits.

>>52769679
>The town guards fight as a level 1 fighting man, but they aren't pc's with character sheets taking levels in fighting man.
Neither are the players' characters. The players are, mind you; but not their characters.

>>52774934
>and consequently, running OD&D (using Chainmail for combat).
As an LBBfag, I leave to you this warning:
Get your feet wet with a more... elegant, system.

>>52772009
Sounds kinda like Savage Worlds.

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>>52776323

Well, I've played AD&D2e before--I looked at B/X, and some restatements like OSRIC, but they feel similar enough to 2e that I'd like a change of pace. The wargaming rules seem like they'd scratch that itch.

In particular, I'm fascinated by the idea of playing D&D with just d6s (at least for players; random tables use others). The 20:1 combat system is pretty elegant, all considered.

That said, I will agree that stuff like the Man-to-Man rules (and the clumsily integrated Fantasy table) are a hot mess.

>>52774934
>What's the point of the "% chance of survival" for CON?
If you're familiar with AD&D, it's the System Shock Roll.
If you aren't a tough guy, sometimes shapechanging just kill you.
>Is it not superseded by Saving Throws?
No. If you pass your Save v. Stone (or whatever) you don't change shape, so you don't check if you survive a shape change.
>How do you apply modifiers? [...] do you add it to just one die, or all?
If something means "each die" it will explicitly say "each die." (see high/low constitution, etc.)
>Are they only intended for the Alternative system?
They're intended for M2M, so they actually scale "wrong" for the alternate system.
>Was "all hits are 1d6 damage" perhaps only intended for the Alternative matrix?
And again, no. If you "score a kill" on the M2M table you deal 1d6 damage (+modifiers (again) IIRC).
The trouble is that Gygax also uses "hits" interchangeably with "hit points," the troll is only doing 5 damage etc.

>>52775110
>ever I want them, there's rules for weapon speeds, threat ranges, charging, flanking, rear attacks, fatigue, terrain, inclines, indirect fire, move-shoot-move, readied fire, and spell complexity. I love that.
That's a great mentality, and it's a good place to leech rulings.
But the only things you're expected to take are the combat tables and morale rules.
Which, hopefully, answers your other questions.

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>>52772570
High quality content dominates during the small hours of the night (NA/Euro).

Shitposting dominates during the daylight hours.

It's an eternal cycle. The best you can do is post as much OC as you can, and comment on other OC, and resolutely ignore even the most well-crafted bait.

>>52776034
That depends entirely on what your players feel comfortable rerolling.

>>52776500
>I'm fascinated by the idea of playing D&D with just d6s
Ayyyyy.... that's why I first started liking it, too.
There's a good "all HD as d6" table floating around.

Don't have it on hand, but it's worth a look.

>>52776606
>resolutely ignore even the most well-crafted bait.
Bait and stupidity are /very palatable/ of you assume anyone disagreeing with you is sarcastic.

>>52776624
Not really talking about comfort or feelings at all, just interested in the raw numbers. I'm looking for an algebraic expression I suppose? I imagine it nudges a given roll closer to average, maybe growing closer to average the more dice are rerolled. I'm curious by how much and how strong the effect really is.

I just had an idea-
Make each save twice, each for a degree of success.
For example, save once = halve damage, twice = nullify.
Fail once and medusa stones you, fail twice and your rock-self SHATTERS. Shit like that.
Idk how it would affect the math, tho.

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>>52776848
Sounds a lot like this houserule, only for saves rather than attacks.

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>>52776589
>System Shock Roll
I'd never reached a point where I needed to check System Shock (I was a player, not a DM), but that's good to know. I figured it'd have some lateral utility for situations like torture, drowning, etc. In reading it, it struck me as a sort of "Save v.s. Rocks-Fall-Everyone-Dies".

>Will explicitly say "each die"
Okay, I was overcomplicating it in my head. Still learning to read Gygaxian.

>Intended for M2M
Shit, I was hoping to avoid M2M if possible. I've tried running tests and it seems to generally shake out the same way as normal combat--just slower and more unevenly. Would math like a Halfling's +3 on missile attacks end up TOO strong on the 20:1 scale? I suppose I could use the Individual Missiles table for ranged attacks and use 20:1 for melee. OD&D appears relaxed in that respect.

>>52776699
http://anydice.com/program/b5ef
>output [foo 1d20 10]
Replace 1d20 with whatever you're interested in rolling.
Replace 10 with the best value you aren't interested in keeping.

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>>52776693
>Bait and stupidity are /very palatable/ of you assume anyone disagreeing with you is sarcastic.

Nah, I assume people disagreeing with me might have valid points, or possibly that their disagreement comes from misunderstanding rather than malice.

Stuff like:
>>52772350
Is obvious low-quality bait.

Stuff like:
>>52724609
Has effort put into it, but it's too obvious.

But bait like
>>52663793
Is starting to head into a league of its own.

Anyway, doesn't really matter. It's only the internet.

>>52776902
>Would math like a Halfling's +3 on missile attacks end up TOO strong on the 20:1 scale?
Maybe think that over? It actually ends up weaker.

Anyways, the numbers "work" fine for the alternate system.
They just don't "work as intended."

>>52776951
Hey I posted that last thing. Why do you think t's bait? I just found that fun.

>>52776902
>>52776500
>>52775151
>>52775110
>>52774934
Who's the artist?

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>>52777027
>not recognizing based Yoshitaka Amano
He does most of the Final Fantasy concept art, used to do all of it.

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>>52777027

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I've shared this before but was wondering if I could get any input on my 5e Style Hack for LotFP that I've been running at the table.

Do you see any major flaws that I've overlooked; things that just will become OP as hell or cause some setback? My players have only advanced to Level 2 so far.

I want a slightly more indepth first aid mechanic for my modern fantasy OSR game.

I'm thinking letting the players use bandages, ointments, painkillers, and stimulants. Each one heals 1 hp and maybe has a second effect, but whenever you take an injury you need a certain number of them or else you'll take a nasty complication.

How does this sound as a first aid system? How could it be tweaked or improved?

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>>52776982
You're right. I'm a dumbass--I completely forgot how the Chainmail missile table actually looks.

Thanks for the input, this guidance is really appreciated.

>>52777125
I run first-aid as bonus hp dolled out in full at the start of the adventure
No need to actively do it, if you have the supplies you're assumed to use them during downtime.

Separately, I use painkillers as "temporary" health potions.
If you haven't gotten actual healing by the time they wear off, you could whiff it.

>>52769454
Arneson

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>>52772914

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>>52773343
I got you covered, anon.

If you want more info, check out both the gazetteers as well as google "Pandius".

Has anyone though of using a Dragonball/Dragonball Z style cosmology with kami, kai, and kaioshin? Granted, players probably wouldn't be able to experience it unless they where spelljamming or something.

>>52778568
Speaking of kami, has anyone riffed kamigawa for OSR?

Does anyone here know about Dungeon Robber? It's a randomized text based, old school D&D-inspired dungeon, and it's working well for scratching the itch for a game while I find a group

I just wish it was less swingy. At level 5, wearing plate armor, a shield and a bastard sword, a RAT is still fully capable of tearing my character a new asshole with a tiny bit of luck. Any monster above level 3 can do the same thing while blindfolded and with one hand tied

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>>52778585
Mine's sort of like that, but with less magic. Its basically samurai champloo

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>>52769454
>Arneson or Gygax?
Our group has only played Gygax modules, so can't fairly answer this question. I have DA1, DA2, and DA3 though, so maybe the time has come to run them.

Give me a topic for an encounter list or short bestiary or something to write, I'm bored.

>>52778930
City destroyed by an ancient magical war

>>52778930
Go full magical realm, with catgirls and cute dwarves

>>52778930
NPC write-ups for gypsy spies who've not so subtly killed and replaced a city block.

>>52778814
So around 1 in exp(level+2)?

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>>52778930
Cousins to the Manticore and the Minotaur. Strange fusion creatures invented by an eccentric wizard.

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>>52779144
not around, exactly. Because you assume experience points are supposed to represent real experience and time spent developing skills.

And the more time you spend learning how to fight, the lower chance you have to survive.

Its demographics by danger

>>52778930
>>52779202
The flesh-and-blood descendants of illusions.

>>52778814
I prefer the following
Lvl 1 - 1/10
2 - 1/25
3 - 1/50
4 - 1/100
5 - 1/200
6 - 1/500
7 - 1/1,500
8 - 1/5,000
9 - 1/20,000
10 - 1/60,000
11 - 1/200,000
12 - 1/1,000,000
13 - 1/5,000,000
14 - 1/20,000,000

>>52769679
>Its a much better idea to not worry about demographics very much at all. That way lay madness and autism.

>>52779363
looks the same to mme

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>>52778585
No, but I have thought about how MTG colors and Alignment might interact
>White: Any non-Chaotic
>Blue: Any
>Black: Any non-Good
>Red: Any non-Lawful
>Green: Any that is a Neutral on at least one axis

And then maybe at 4th or 5th level you get a special power based on which mana color you're affiliated with.

In addition to your Alignment, your Color also influences interactions. Characters of the same Color tend to treat each other better than normal; allied colors are treated normally; enemy colors are treated worse. A Lawful Good White paladin would see nothing wrong with a having Lawful Evil White henchman but would start smiting if he ran into a Lawful Evil Black orc.

>>52779682
Alignment is bad enough as it is.

>>52780144
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzRBeuuQDlY

>>52780246
>posting short version

>>52780246
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJeLZqRzltQ

God I wanna back the DCC Lankhmar stuff but I would have 0 fucking people who would give a fuck enough to want to play it.

>>52778814
Not that anyone cares, but I'm wondering if this number is purely arbitrary. It can't be a comparison to the avg. population of men, women, children, and senior citizens of said community.

Also, principalities, kingdoms, and empires encompass multiple cities, towns, and villages.

Veterans of past wars would skew the numbers lower quite a bit, with say 1/10 in hamlets.

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>>52780330
>>52780246
>>52780320
What the heck is going on in this thread?

>>52776902
>I figured it'd have some lateral utility for situations like torture, drowning, etc.
That's perfectly legit, and may have been the intention. You should definitely use that rule if you like it.

>>52780588
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_QyC0C2kQw
we're looking at new information.

By the way, how do you handle it when players want to have sex at the table/roll for dick size or boob size?

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>>52780659
>By the way, how do you handle it when players want to have sex at the table/roll for dick size or boob size?

Those are 2 problems. The first can be solved with a sharp look or spray bottle. Or join in. I mean, if sex is more interesting than your game, you're either not getting enough sex or your game isn't good enough.

The second bit... I don't think it's ever come up (hurr hurr hurr). If it did, it would depend on the game style? Beer and pretzels? I'd whip up a quick table (with an option for "roll twice, once for each boob" or something). For a more serious game, or one with different expectations of tone, I'd shut that down with some good old fashioned public shaming.

>>52780350
Do you even need to? Just adapt existing Lankhmar content, there's loads.

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People of /osr/, what is your favourite spell, and why?

Doesn't have to be the best spell. Doesn't even have to be an /osr/ spell.

>>52780330

"Roll a Charisma check."

. . .

"Wait, auto-success. . .nevermind."

>>52780659
Discourage it before it gets awkward.

>>52780840
>I mean, if sex is more interesting than your game, you're either not getting enough sex or your game isn't good enough.

Can you adapt the material to your group's current system?

>>52781047
Not sure if you quoted the right bit, but the juxtaposition is amusing.

>>52780999
Ironically, it is 100% summoning low-level monsters.

If you do it right, they act as a speedbump for your encounter so you can overpower it with missiles and other offensive spells.

If your campaign plays with miniatures, you can wargame the shit out of it. If the DM gets mad, just tell them they need monsters smart enough to target the caster. Then summon a low-level monster to block line-of-sight or prevent them getting in range.

>>52781109
You're right. I fucked up so bad it's hilarious.

>>52781216
Oh, and this tactic is completely broken in Pathfinder and twice the fun.

>>52780999
Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting

Abi-Dalzim gets no other mention, but has the most evocative of all the [caster][effect] spell names.
Melf's Acid Arrow doesn't make me want to incorporate Melf into my campaign.
But I could imagine Abi-Dalzim as all sorts of crotchety of petty villains.

>>52781311
>Melf's Acid Arrow doesn't make me want to incorporate Melf into my campaign.

No matter where I play, I will inevitably hear, "Did someone say MILF?"

>>52771240
>Arneson's work is the tattered remains of some gossamer majesty.
If I had a time machine, I would go back and document the original Blackmoor. All of it. Especially the magic.

>>52781431

Isn't there a documentary about this where they interview the players? Was it ever finished?

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>>52781431
>>52781455
I suspect the dream of Blackmoor would be better than the actual fact. It's easy to hagiographize the dawn of D&D.

>>52775054
It doesn't, really. The fantasy supplement for Chainmail is only suitable for 1:1 scale, and you'll give yourself no end of headaches trying to make it work at proper Chainmail wargame scale (1:10 or 1:20, I forget because it's early am). Gygax tried several times to make it work and never came up with a satisfactory way of doing it, which is why later attempts like battlesystem cheat insanely hard and make heroic characters much more powerful in mass combat when they'd die within two turns against rabble if you played it out in 1:1.

>>52778752
I backed the kickstarter that came out of. It was good fun. you're welcome.

(the ks was for the poster, which was the ad&d random dungeon tables in visual form - it's what dungeon robber uses as background)

>>52781468
absolutely, I just want more details on the magic rules though.

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>>52781311
>Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting

It's a nice evocative spell. Abi-Dalzim must have really hated dryads or treants or fungus men.

>>52781583
Or water elementals, or vermin, or people who bump him on the street, or reverse mummies...

Have you ever had players who switch between wanting to play as their characters, and wanting to make a hireling into a character and their character a hireling?

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>>52781615
Ah, right. "Wizard".

>>52778752
>hp costs 10gp apiece
There doesn't seem to be any point to banking money until you have enough to level up.
Incidentally, how many gp does that take?

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>find stairs in room 1
>descend
>sneak past trogs
>treasure
>backtrack to stairs
>ascend
>get lost
Random generation was a mistake.

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>>52781743
For the players, or the GM?

>>52781777
Whichever I'm not whenever I happen to complain.

>>52781790
Oh, I see, this is one of /those/ posts.

If you want to sit around and bitch, start a book club.

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Does anyone use these one-page adventure things in their games? I'm thinking of adapting this some for my LotFP game.

>>52781900
I rework the fluff, but they're the only adventures I play "as written."

In Ancient Atlantis, in the depths of the temple of Celestial truth, there are 7 doors, each sealed with the blood of the innocent.

Opening the first door requires a standard check.
This stops all Magic-User Spells above level 6 from being cast, anywhere in the world.

Opening the second door requires two consecutive standard checks.
This prevents all Cleric Spells above level 4 from being cast anywhere in the world.

Opening the third door requires three consecutive standard checks and the lifeblood of a companion.
This prevents any Magic User spells above level 1 from being cast anywhere in the world.

Opening the fourth door requires four consecutive standard checks and the lifeblood of 3 companions.
This prevents all Cleric Spells above level 1 from being cast anywhere in the world.

Opening the fifth door requires five consecutive standard checks and the lifeblood of 2 family members.
This causes all magical items to decay into dust and all persistent spells to end if they have not already, anywhere in the world.

Opening the sixth door requires six consecutive standard checks and the lifeblood of all family members, less than two generations apart.
This servers the connection Earth has to otherworldly realms, causing all portal, summons, eldritch horrors, magically sustained people and demihumans to either leave or die. And permanently cuts God from the universe. He's still judging you and when he gets your soul your in for it.

Opening the seventh door requires no checks except your own life must be ended in the process of opening it.
With the doors opening a terrible noiseless roar scraps the souls of all present as God himself and the very concept of supernatural forces being real is made non-existent in an entirely inanimate universe.
They temple also begins to flood at a rate of 1 foot of water per round, you are now 500 feet from the exit.

Behind each door is The door's number * 10000 pieces of silver worth of statues and ornaments.

>>52781942
Nifty but why are you posting this? Something for your game?

>>52781968
My LotFP;Obligatory World Ending Trap hidden in the Dungeon.

Next to the statues which come alive and try to rape the PCs when they say the word 'socks'.

>>52781689
1000 per level until level 5, at which point there's a gap where you don't level up again until 10,000gp. At that point you unlock the fighter. Each level gives you 1 extra hp

Early on the best strategy is to just grind dungeon level 1 until you get good loot. It gets easier once you can buy leather armor from the market, which is unlocked relatively early on. Oil flasks can be a godsend both as a escape button and nuke. Once you unlock the smith and can buy chain mail, swords and shields as needed, it gets even easier, but not to the point that fighting becomes better than walking away when possible.

As with real D&D always bring a 10 foot pole, it gives you a bonus against traps and also functions as a fishing pole if you don't have one (fishing can attract sea monsters so don't do it too much). Remember to backtrack every 5 rooms or so, getting lost can easily kill you.

The first unlocked class is the rogue, who get a bonus to traps and can attempt to lockpick doors instead of forcing them in their first try, which doesn't attract monsters. But you also lose 2 hp which is pretty significant. Getting high strength is a waste of a stat point, so just pick something else like Con or maybe Int (if you really hate getting lost) and buy a rapier.

Fire beetles are the spawn of satan. They're reasonably strong and non-sentient, so no distracting them with gold or parleying.

Lastly, don't play on advanced difficulty because it's turbobullshit and there's no point on increasing difficulty on a game that's 80% RNG. It just makes it frustrating. It also allows for reloading if something truly bullshit kills you, like getting OHKO'd by poisoned treasure without warning that it was even trapped, and ignoring any bonus that isn't from stats

>>52781942
How many hirelings did I bring?
How good is their morale?
Are any of them siblings?
Are the doors labelled?
Or am I expected to trial and error through?
Do I know any magic users?
What stops be from tunneling through the walls?
Can anything be done about the flooding?
Are you Skerples?

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>>52781942
First question: who built the doors, and how did they build them without the existence of the preceding concepts? I mean, presumably you'd need the supernatural to build them.

Second, can you tunnel into the spaces between the vaults? Someone had to build the temple, after all.

Third, surely the value would increase exponentially, since the efffects are so dire? Merely 7x more loot doesn't seem like much.

What about "the door's number x the preceeding door's number"?

You get 10,000sp, 20,000sp, 60,0000sp, 120,000sp, etc.

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>>52781992
I can only answer one of those questions. The answer is "socks".

>>52781985
>and also functions as a fishing pole if you don't have one
I noticed.
>(fishing can attract sea monsters
I noticed.
>so don't do it too much)
I expect I'll die to a sea monster.
So far it's been /very/ lucrative.

>>52781993
Mad Max was a mistake...

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>>52782045
Neither breaks your leg nor picks your pocket, so it's not worth worrying about.

>>52781992
>>52781993
They were built by the Ancient Morlock-descendant Atlantians, who angry at the concept of Magic interfering with their Quantum-Stone computing. Also elves.

The temple is built of a rough basalt cave inside a larger sandstone building which has worn away.

I like the idea of exponential treasure.

The doors are unmarked except for the black bloodstains on the humble wood, which on detailed inspection is from ancient fern trees summoned with quantum duplication from the Jurassic period.

This also explains Atlantis's fall, being overrun by Demihuman-riding intelligent dinosaurs and their Proto-Egyptian allies.

>>52782072
Dinosaurs which ride demi-humans or the other way around?

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>>52782072
Well, I see you've got the LotFP-ness sorted out. Best of luck.

And Dinosaur Clerics deserve to be in more games. http://goblinpunch.blogspot.ca/2013/10/dinosaur-clerics-new-class.html

>>52782072
>The doors are unmarked except for the black bloodstains on the humble wood,
The hirelings roll to force open doors.
When that stops working, we have them try breaking the walls.
We brought picks, ofc.
Meanwhile, the players see what they can do about the water level.
When if gets too bad, they bail with what they can.

>which on detailed inspection
Ain't nobody got time for that.
>is from ancient fern trees summoned with quantum duplication from the Jurassic period.
How much are the doors worth?

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>>52782107
>>is from ancient fern trees summoned with quantum duplication from the Jurassic period.

There needs to be an adjective for pointless shit like this. "Raggian?", maybe?

Stuff that only the GM will ever know. There's no way for the players to find this out, and even if they did, there's nothing they can do with it. They might discover it's "ancient fern trees". But as to /how/... who cares? It's Raggian detail. The kind of thing that impresses someone reading a module, but only decreases its utility in play.

>>52782223
I thought ordinary wood would be boring. It then made me rerange the whole module around small dinosaurs trying to lassos the party like a rodeo

>>52782107
I didn't think of picks

>>52782284
>the dinosaurs aren't a one-off detail

I hereby rescind >>52782089 on Skerples behalf.

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>>52782284
See, that's an excellent reason to have something in your module..

But... remember to trim where required. "Fresh wood from extinct trees" does just as well as "quantum whatzahozits oh look at me I read 'A Brief History of Time' ". Go for evocative and quick, not detailed and undiscoverable.

That being said, I do love me a saurian rodeo.

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>>52782302
Look, I'm not sure who's rescinding what anymore. I feel like I'm losing control of my identity. This is particularly vexing on an anonymous imageboard.

>>52782321
You have wandered in a stone circle used to harness the quantum foam of the universe to prolong the lives of the Atlantans elite, however, such stretching of the body's fundamentals leaves you vunrable to possession for the next 24 hours. All saves to avoid possession by ghost, demon or magic user at -2. You also have a 1% higher chance of cancer from the radiation, but that can be fixed in the Great Hospital (see Area 3 on overview map)

>>52782381
Yes this was wholesale theft from Tolkien.

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>>52770820
A feat system.

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>>52782381
Oh nifty. So I write this down... where?

Does that cancel out the Fundamental Uncertainty Ray that I was hit by in Room 17-A? You know, the one with the brachiobeholder? The one that rotates all my stats counterclockwise each hour, on the hour? We never did figure out how that interacted with by Belt of Giant Vocabulary.

>>52771579
>everyone who disagrees with me must be a single person, it's inconceivable anymore than that could, after all my opinions are facts

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>>52782442
Son, this is the late night /osr/ thread. The one where OC is produced and productive discussions are had. Take thy bickering to the /5E/ general.

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How would you stat a dragon for LotFP?

The game I'm running is going to be taking the players to a 'newly discovered island' just outside of the Caribbean in the Atlantic that the quest-giver is calling 'Hewanor Island' and it's people offer up sacrifices yearly to the 'devil god of the volcano'. Supposedly he's been there but I'm leaving that vague so the players stay on edge. They think it might be some sort of King Kong thing but I'm wanting a dragon to really fuck with them.

>>52769454
I played back then. House rules were often stupid, and Gygax would espouse in the pages of Dragon that if you didn't buy and use his stuff, you weren't playing Official Dungeons & Dragons™. Random generation tables were stupid, especially the ones designed by Gygax, with the random dungeon generation the worst.

Had some good teachers as DMs, and there were also mediocre DMs.

>>52772529
>tfw because LotFP annoys SJWs, autists figure out they must like it or they'd be SJWs too
>Raggi can count on an army of rabid fedoroid alt-right morons defending his every shitty decision so long as he remains offensive

>>52782546
See:
>>52782456

>>52782551
At the risk of failing to appreciate the irony of my own post,
complaining about bad posts gets my goat worse than bait.

There are maybe 5 people in the thread right now.
You're the only one replying to him.

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>>52782589
I know, but I'm waiting for dinosaur guy to respond. Not much else going on at the moment.

>>52782420
If you die in the dungeon (except on the first floor or prime numbered rooms), death (through the referee) challenges your ghost (that is, you the player) to a game of pingpong.

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>>52782610
Using paddles or... the novelty method?

>>52782607
So post your stream of consciousness.
If there aren't a few gems to be had there will be, it will at least give people inspiration.
Brainstorming is kind of like circle jerking, but instead of forming a ring ass-to-dick, you form a ring ass-to-mouth.
Like the human cemtipede, but an ouroboros.

Brainstorms fight as 1d4+1 Carrion Crawlers, but eat brains as a Mindflayer instead of paralyzing.

>>52782610
Winning earns you nothing, but no one can die while death is preoccupied.

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>>52782662
Alright, if you insist.

I'm trying to frame an answer to "how much detail is too much", as it relates to dungeon stocking and dungeon design.

I'm trying to answer the question by designing a dungeon that also teaches complete noobs how to think about OSR games, and some of the most useful and common tropes.

I'm also working on a summoner class. It's tricky.

And in the meantime, I've been thinking about another class (god-eater paladins), cactus horses, how to communicate tone and goals to players during the first session, the problem of primordials in a monotheistic setting, and what limited omnipotence (able to see everything but the future) looks like.

And I'm also trying to figure out the logistics of crossbreeding dragons with toads. Would you polymorphic the dragon, or the toad? Probably the dragon, but that raises more questions. How would you convince them? Bribery? A share in the proceeds? Would a Charm spell be enough or would you need a proper love potion?

>>52782721
That would be a marsh dragon, as of AD&D. Check Dragonlance for stats.

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>>52782762
Oh no, the point's not to get toad-like dragons.

The point is to get dragon-like toads.

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>>52782721
>god-eater paladins
Honestly, antipaladin sounds better.
If you insist on " god-eater," at least call regular paladins "god-speaker paladins."
Or maybe strip out paladins altogether. "god-speaker" and "god-eater"

>how to communicate tone and goals to players during the first session
Stealing this from a really good non-OSR thread, but handle that's best handled out if game*

Sit people down with a survey.
>1: How would you react to your character permanently dying?
2: Are you here to roleplay and talk, or roll dice and kill stuff?
>3: Do you like trains? Railroad vs Sandbox.
4: Are you ok with political intrigue? Or are you playing games to get away from politics?
>5: Are you fine with grim settings and unhappy endings? Or would you rather have something more noble?
6: Do you want to start at the bottom and go from there, or play a big damn hero/villan?
>7: What kind of pacing are you looking for? We can go fast-onward and upwards, or we can go through a slow slog.
8: Do you want to be serious, or silly?
>9: How do you stand on horror? Keep in mind if you want a horror campaign, only you can let yourself be scared unless I pull dirty tricks.
10: How much anthropomorphism are you comfortable with?

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>>52782721
>Would you polymorphic the dragon, or the toad?
I don't see why you need to polymorph either. You're fertilizing eggs externally, broski.
>How would you convince them?
Florida Man raped an alligator. Some /a/non consensually fucked a Dolphin. Beastiality is a thing.
Frog fetishes seem less out of place on dragons than humans, and there are certainly humans with that fetish.
>Bribery? A share in the proceeds?
Decent choices. Curiousity might do the trick. Or frog porn. Or blackmail.
>Would a Charm spell be enough
Depends on the spell writeup, but almost certainly not.
>or would you need a proper love potion?
If you're spring for something transitive and expensive, make sure it's mating season.
...make sure your frog is the right gender, too. You can tell a frog's gender by their ear size.

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Is Tower of the Stargazer in fact an elaborate, ironic piece of commentary and possibly satire, a distillation of all of the worst GMing practices in the medium, meant to teach a convoluted lesson about how to not write an adventure?

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>that's best handled out if game*
Of, and I forgot I left that asterix dangling.

*Which isn't to say reinforcing expectations in play is a bad thing.
Just that yoh and your group should agree on expectations before play.

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>>52782899
>at least call regular paladins "god-speaker paladins."

Yup. Already got it. They're Paladins of the Word. They use Command to part rivers or stun people or whatever. It's their core ability. They speak with God's voice.

And my problem with surveys like that is that they are useful, provided you know what the options are. For total noobs though, it can be misleading or lead them into directions they don't actually want to go. For example, who would actually say "Oh yeah, sure, let's go for grim endings"? Bearing in mind, this is an intro that should be useful for people who don't even play video games. You've got to approach it from a weird angle.

I've had better success with questions like:

What board games or video games do you enjoy?

When you're playing a board game, what were some really "fun" moments for you? What really stood out as memorable?

What's your favorite movie of the past few years?
Do you know anything about roleplaying games or D&D, from TV? If so, did anything stand out to you as being really fun?

What made you want to try this?

You need to ask the questions of the group, at the same time, in the same room. That gives you your genre and general tone. It starts to set the stage.

From there, you need to lay out a few "principles of OSR" for noobs, to get them in the right mindset. If you're leading an OSR game because it's what the players indicated they wanted, then you need to make sure they know what that actually means.

And you need to define some terms.

And it just keeps going. Damn it, I /did/ this recently, and it worked. I just need to write it down in a useful form.

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>>52782607
Waaaaait a second.
Skerples wasn't dinosaur guy?

>>52782924
I think you give Tower too little credit.
It might be the most salvageable thing Raggi's ever wrote.

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>>52782899
>>52782995
cont'd

So for total noobs, questions like:
>10: How much anthropomorphism are you comfortable with?
>2: Are you here to roleplay and talk, or roll dice and kill stuff?
>1: How would you react to your character permanently dying?

Don't really mean anything, at least not initially. Got to remember that for most people, handcuffs are a pretty "weird" kink. I don't want to explain furries to them, and then explain /not/ furries. What's the point?

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>>52783015
Nope, wasn't me. Turns out there's someone else out there with a stack of great ideas, bless his or her soul.

If the glass bell in room 45b is rung, all monsters in the dungeon are altered.
If the bell is shattered, all players/monsters in the room trade statblocks at random (characters retain their own appearance).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWYxc8xhihg

>>52782995
>They're Paladins of the Word.
Then call your "god-eater paladins" Antipaladins of the Meal.

>the rest
My bad, I'd been looking for an excuse to post that survey.
I knew your group was new players, but I didn't put two and two together.

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>>52783074
>My bad, I'd been looking for an excuse to post that survey.

No worries, it's a good survey.

And the Antipalidins of the Meal don't eat meals. They don't eat at all, in fact.

They gain power by killing followers of other gods, by destroying their temples, their icons, and their holy symbols. Some powers are temporary, some are permanent, depending on the task. And the powers are related to the gods they eat. Sack the church of a sun god? Sun powers. Snake cult? Snake powers.

Do the AD&D 1E books with the original covers and the books with the revised covers with the orange spines have the same exact content, or do the orange spine books have revisions of any kind?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zxi3SClJGw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-_fHpiTAQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYGQexs27nU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-znhVkXMbA0

>>52783131
>And the Antipalidins of the Meal don't eat meals.
And Paladins of the Voice don't speak.

>>52783189
contents are identical down to the typesetting. They didn't even bump the copyright dates. Nor did they fix the cover artist credits. The new DMG says the cover depicts the city of brass beneath the foreword.

>>52782496
> thinks house rules are stupid
> too cool to play "Official Dungeons & Dragons™"

>>52782911
Would you a frog race if they looked like Tsuyu?

>>52783444
Yes

>>52783444
Bullywug monstergirls

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>>52783444
Only if our kids are like this!

>>52783015
>It might be the most salvageable thing Raggi's ever wrote.

Random Esoteric Creature Generator.

There's something very Jewish about this whole mentality. I mean, someone could show up any day claiming to have recovered "secret notes from Gary Gygax", and a fair amount of people in the /osr/ community won't only automatically treat anything in them as objectively right and correct, they'd argue that it's "always been the only logical way" - even if they only found out about it now.

>>52776500
If you're still here, I'd like to recommend Champions of ZED
It's written by a guy who's pretty huge in DnD historian circles, and pretty much cleaned up and combined everything you'd need for the kind of play you're looking for.

>>52769872
Me too. It's a great supplement for my OSR games.

>>52783726
WUT

>>52769542
>You say in old-school gaming your character isn't special. But in order for that to be true, there'd need to be a whole lot of high-level characters running around: at least 5th level city guards and all that. And that shit sounds like what you get in Pathfinder and 4e.

Multiple answers:

1) Just because something has already been done by PF and 4e it does not mean it's automatically and retroactively invalid.

2) "Your character isn't special", in any case, generally refers to a general point of view rather than a specific one.
It doesn't mean "there are a lot of NPCs with your same traits".
There still ARE a lot of NPCs with your same traits, but the "your character isn't special" line means something slightly deeper.

In OSR, you have no "plot armor". Your character is not special in the sense that there is no narrative that requires your continued existence or your active contribution. There are quite a few adventurers in the game-world, and you are one of them. You are not a chosen one, and dice and events will not be fudged in your favor.

So, assuming your character is, say, for example a 7th level fighter... "your character isn't special" doesn't mean "there are other 7th level fighters in the world, you're not the only one".
It means "there are other 7th level fighters, and the fact that you are a player character and they are not does not constitute a meaningful difference. You can die in an anticlimatic way to a goblin with a poisoned knife exactly like they can. The game world doesn't care if a certain character is run by a player or is a NPC run by the DM."

>>52784686
You saw it.

So, you are an oldschool-ish minded person, and play with people like that, or at least people who have fun with oldschool-ish games.
What were the worst parts? Where did the game-
1. cause frustration because of the system?
2. slow down when it shouldn't?
3. fail to fulfill expectations? (having informed players, that is)
4. become sloppy or muddy, in terms of action resolution?

>>52785551
>1. cause frustration because of the system?

I have a disease /OSRG/...

I love some aspects of B/X, some aspects of 1E, and some aspects of 2E. So I am toying with creating my own player guides with all the mishmashed rules of these edition.

Is this a good idea? I mean they seem fairly compatible...

Would that still be D&D?

>>52785781
Fucking go for it, anon. Post results when you've gotten done.

>>52785781
What aspects of each edition do you love?

>>52785551
My take:
1. Surprise, reaction, and all the stuff you have to roll with each encounter. I'm working on a simplified table that covers all that in a single roll
2. Running old modules by the book, and in general modules with lots of empty rooms and endless corridors.
3. empty. corridors.
4. Abilities and its use. Players assume they will be important, maybe cos its the first thing they roll.

>>52785781
Will you players read them! amazing! do it then.
I usually keep all rules dm-side, including houserules (but idk, I never played with people who already play d&d)

>>52785919
>>52785781 explain >>52785551 now that you're at it

>>52785551
Mostly agree with what >>52785984 said, barring #1 which was never an issue. I can't on top of my head think of much that might cause actual frustration with my system of choice, though there are some things I don't like about it all too much.

>>52785885
Will do, might take a while though as it should be comprehensive enough for my players to not need another reference.

>>52785919
Oooohhhh booooyyyy. So, taking B/X as a base.

Race and class. Just the way I roll

the idea of grouping classes under core archetypes as per 2E

1 minute combat round, 10 minute turn

B/X armour (3 tiers)

B/X reaction and morale rules (although the 2e reaction table is also awesome)

some form of 1e and 2e weapons vs armour, but suitable for only 3 armour tiers

Some form of weapon proficiency, maybe the RC system, although the 1E system is also cool; but having both proficiencies and weapons as part of class seems double

2E initiative modifiers group variant: 1 die roll per side but individual modifiers.

Most of 2Es combat system. Some 1E sub-systems like firing into melee

That's just off the top of my head. There is a lot more, and if you guys have any input on preferred systems I would love to hear it. The thing is, it seems like such a stupidly long task to make this document (guessing it would be about 30 pages).

>>52785984
Yea, my core players are also active DMs in old school campaigns, so we love reading each other's ideas and systems.

>>52786055
Just some more system preferences I forgot mentioning in the first place:

M-Us having a max amount of spells per spell level dictated by intelligence. Having to find all spells except starting spells in game. Not really sold on chance to know spells.

A few of the 2E xp suggestions are intriguing, but I reaaally like gold as xp.

B/Xs encumbrance is the best out of the three; although I might simplify that one system even further to the LotFP or ACKs system.

Dexterity modifying initiative from B/X

Dexterity modifying suprise is a maybe (from 1e and 2e i think)

Expensive material components for some spells from 1E and 2E

>>52785551
>1. cause frustration because of the system?
I still have such a hard time managing turns and wandering monsters. How much time is passing when the players think about where to go next? A minute or an instant? Which discussions between players are in-character? Things like that make it pretty frustrating and it usually ends with me rolling for monsters when it feels right rather than follow rules.

>2. slow down when it shouldn't?
I haven't had much trouble with this, the only thing that slows down the game are the players themselves and sometimes me. Things can really slow down when the players just sit silent, unsure what to do next, and when they can't agree on something. Usually the player who nags the most win out in the end, and the worst part about that is that he's the player who does the least interesting things.

>3. fail to fulfill expectations? (having informed players, that is)
I feel like many OSR games and modules focus on the players solving fictional-positional problems through lateral thinking, and that hasn't really worked well because of the stuff I wrote about earlier. I also still find it hard to kill off PCs, even though people are generally fine with it.

>4. become sloppy or muddy, in terms of action resolution?
As was discussed in an earlier thread, editions of D&D and retroclones change the rules ever so slightly, making me question if I run encounters correctly (especially in modules). It feels bad when you follow the rules and something happens that felt wrong, only to find out later that another system would have made that set of events more logical or streamlined.

>>52786178
You can use B/X in two ways - one is adding weight, like the example in the book. Second is using the table for what it is: no armor 120, leather 90, metal 60, encumbered 30. When you pick treasure, you jump to the next category. This categories include equipment and weapons.
Sacks come with a fixed weight in coins so you can still calculate easily track weight (for ex, metal armored can load 400coins before getting overloaded to zero speed)
Can't get easier than that.
Yes, this is in the books, not sure why people think it's slow or complex -- it's almost binary.

>>52786186
Thanks for you input
>turns and wandering monsters
A few PC actions take a full turn, like a combat, a search, walking <encumbrance rante>. Other than that, don't 'force-start' a new turn, ever.
If they are talking in a dungeon (or, god forbid, yelling) roll for a encounter because they are making noise.

Btw, I use a encounter list with 8 monster entries, 3 'torch goes out' entries, the rest nothing happens. I roll with a d20 each turn or when they make noise and stuff.
A lot simpler and I never forget a check - I don't have to track torches either. Hope it helps

>hings can really slow down when the players just sit silent, unsure what to do next
That sounds like a DM problem. When stuff like that happens, I give them the Gandalf: this corridor smells stale, the other fresh. 50% chance, for fairness. Even if both are empty and boring af, at least it sets things in movement.

>they can't agree on something
"no, no, you guys keep talking, I'm just rolling a encounter because you spent a few minutes arging there and someone might have heard you *roll* oh and your torch goes out"

>hard to kill off PCs
not a bad thing? it seems that you have reached that rare thing called 'balance'

>making me question if I run encounters correctly
Yeah, agree with that. When in doubt, I use BX since it's 'complete' and feels fair for the PCs (reaction, morale, etc) therefore point 1. >>52785984

>>52785551
>1. cause frustration because of the system?

The part where trapfinding and secret doors have very low odds of succeeding normally, and finding them has to be roleplayed. As a DM it's sometimes hard to come up with distinguishing features for them that the players could actually conceivably find without any rolls.

>>52785781
>Is this a good idea?
It's not a good idea, but mostly because it would take forever.
>I mean they seem fairly compatible...
And they are.
>Would that still be D&D?
It would.

>>52784398
Don't see CoZ in the Trove.
Some Googling tells me there are 265 hardcovers and no pdfs.
How do you expect me to get a hold of this?

>>52782223
I like this. If Gygaxian prose is needless adjectives and sperging about polearms, Raggian prose is useless quirky trivia and dick monsters.

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>>52786463
Thanks for the input, I'll keep this stuff in mind. I generally run Basic Fantasy but I've actually started to change over to B/X more and more. Just recently we started using the B/X combat sequence, which seems to work for everyone in the group.

>>52782381
Drink some vodka, stalker, is good for radiation.

>>52786186
>I still have such a hard time managing turns and wandering monsters. How much time is passing when the players think about where to go next? A minute or an instant? Which discussions between players are in-character?

A turn is ten minutes, and you're meant to just kind of jam those things into it. Just kind of pay a little attention to whatever they're babbling about amongst themselves, and every now and then tick a box on your time tracker when it feels like they've probably been doing whatever for about 10 minutes.
It's a deliberately chunky measure of time so that it doesn't take much tracking by the DM.

And don't worry too much about what's IC or OOC. If the players are sitting around having a debate about what to do next, imagine the characters are having a parallel debate in the game. If the players are veering off into chattering about what happened on Say Yes to the Dress yesterday, the sound of your wandering monster roll clattering behind your screen ought to wake them up.

>>52787383
Cool, glad I could help. Do you follow strictly the combat sequence? I just tell players they can move+do one thing in their turn.
When shit matters, I ask what they do for the round, *then* roll initiative - this allows all the juicy tactics like spell interruptions and retreats, plus it cuts down the meta-chatting to a minimum.
They decide first (a big "what now??" moment), declare actions, then the round is resolved, without pausing for each player turn with small "what now??" moments, where everybody argues. And makes the each round *intense*.
Yes, I know all trve grogs play like this, don't be maddd

>>52781942
Stealing this, thanks.

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>>52782899
>10: How much anthropomorphism are you comfortable with?
As much anthropomorphism as a Redwall game would need.

>>52787791
We haven't really had much of chance to test the system, but the way I've done is that I just do something like "Okay, movement phase, does anyone want to move? Okay so you move there and the zombies move here... Alright, ranged phase, is anyone firing a bow?" and so on. I think it's important to show how the sequence works so that the player know that they can run away before getting attacked, for example.

>>52787499
Yeah, I'll think about how I track time a bit more from now on. I might also tick a box whenever there's a pause of silent contemplation, because that really drags the game out.

>>52788029
>Okay so you move there and the zombies move here...
Turns are per side. Initiative winners move, attack and whatnot; then the other side goes and move, attack and whatnot.
>phases
Welp, let me tell you, that shit sucks and takes lots of irl time. I did the same for a while and quickly switched to a faster resolution.
>What do you do? and you? and you? ok roll initiative and then those d20s...
Actually, in BX you only need to declare before rolling initiative spells and retreats, otherwise phases and phase order are irrelevant.
>pause of silent contemplation
Nah, you just need to spice it up, have more shit going on, chasing players or requiring being chased.
Or at least, remind them: 'ok so you are in a dark, dingy corridor and the torch is about to go out, what do you do? do you want to wait or rest here for 10 minutes?'.
You also might want to speed up the crawling and focus on the action (specially if running old, or old-designed modules). Have less empty rooms and long corridors, more 'sticky' stuff that interacts with players. An overgrown corridor is okay, but if it has roots that grab your feet if you don't crossing it running is A LOT more fun.
Torches and food are the classic clocks, but they are SO slow. When you see a map with a long, straight, boring corridor: it's a passive-aggressive way of moving that clock faster. Don't, be a proactive DM and throw around fun shit instead (bat flocks are my fave for putting out torches!)
Also, use NPCs to drive the game and give suggestions (good and bad). Do they have meatshields? NPC rival party in the dungeon? They found a talking skull? a captured goblin that knows shit about the dungeon (including the traps he just set)? Get a random personality+quirk table and play them to the hilt, improvise motivations for them, make them want to go inside/outside the dungeon or fight monsters.

>>52788358

"Empty" rooms and corridors are important. If you fill every spot with something you leave no time for the buildup of tension. It'll also take longer to get through a dungeon as they have to stop every 20 feet to deal with whatever bullshit you put in their way this time.

>>52783189
The main difference is that the binding on the orange-spine ones is cheaper and less sturdy.

>>52782899
>1: How would you react to your character permanently dying?
If I'd just rolled them up, whip out a backup sheet and move on. If I'd grown attached, be kind of sad but get over it.
>2: Are you here to roleplay and talk, or roll dice and kill stuff?
I'm here to roleplay as some kind of fringes-of-society adrenaline junky who goes into holes full of scary things and steals their shit, which probably involves rolling dice and occasionally killing things. (Basically Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser is the tone I like in a campaign.)
>3: Do you like trains? Railroad vs Sandbox.
Sandbox/hexcrawl preferred. If I want story to be the focus instead of emergent, I'll play something narrativist.
>4: Are you ok with political intrigue? Or are you playing games to get away from politics?
I'm okay with anything from absolute avoidance of politics to obvious references to real-world political tension.
>5: Are you fine with grim settings and unhappy endings? Or would you rather have something more noble?
I like a world where things can fall either way.
(1/2)

>>52788578
>6: Do you want to start at the bottom and go from there, or play a big damn hero/villan?
Start from the bottom.
>7: What kind of pacing are you looking for? We can go fast-onward and upwards, or we can go through a slow slog.
Middle-to-slow.
>8: Do you want to be serious, or silly?
Generally serious story, but the occasional joke or silliness is refreshing. Again, think Fafhrd and the Mouser.
>9: How do you stand on horror? Keep in mind if you want a horror campaign, only you can let yourself be scared unless I pull dirty tricks.
I love it, especially when it's in a campaign where I'll eventually become badass enough to (with planning) take out an entire cult and prevent the Old One returning or something, or kill strange alien creatures on the far shores who seem to have been born specifically to kill me. Thinking again of some of the Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser stuff.
>10: How much anthropomorphism are you comfortable with?
Indifferent. I like Redwall, but I don't particularly want to mix it with horror. If we go full animal mode, I'd play a Watership Down campaign, though, and that could get as dark as you want.
(2/2)

Would you game with me, /osrg/?

>>52786662
I have a PDF with me. I'll check if I can get rid of the watermark and send it later.

>>52788358
>Turns are per side. Initiative winners move, attack and whatnot; then the other side goes and move, attack and whatnot.
It was originally meant to be run "per side" but in chunks.
As in, movement, ranged, melee, magic would all get resolved in that order, with each step switching between one and the other side.

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>>52788452
I didn't say remove, I said speed up + make exciting.
>deal with whatever bullshit you put in their way this time.
Fine, enjoy you oldschool empty corridor (240' dead end)
See >>52788029
>whenever there's a pause of silent contemplation, because that really drags the game out.
Based on that description I don't think his game needs more empty rooms or inert elements.
A game is made up of interesting choices. In a empty corridor there's only one: press forward or retreat -- and it's usually hard to make a informed decision about it.

>>52788648
I played wargames before D&D so that's how I played at first, but I think this sequence >>52787383 works a lot better.
Except that phases are more or less irrelevant, but w/e.

>>52788719
>A game is made up of interesting choices. In a empty corridor there's only one: press forward or retreat -- and it's usually hard to make a informed decision about it.
I usually agree with you about the interesting choice part, but just want to point out that there can still be some interesting choice with long, empty corridors. It's just that it doesn't come into play until the party manages to have enough intel about the place.

Have any of the WotC people ever been asked at panels and such what they think of OSR/the OSR community, whether they'd be willing to reprint physical copies of older editions of D&D, and so on?

I'm mostly just kind of curious whether any of them "get it" in terms of understanding the different style of game that TSR-era D&D offered and why people might want to play it.

>>52788852
>whether they'd be willing to reprint physical copies of older editions of D&D, and so on?
They do that already though

>>52787383
One thing I never understood about B/X combat is how there doesn't seem to be any reason why casting a spell would be interrupted. In AD&D casting time and round segments allow for that, but maybe I am misinterpreting the attached image. Am I missing something?

>>52788862
I thought you could only get B/X or BECMI either used or in PDF format. Where are they selling physical copies?

>>52788905
Spells usually only fire off the next round.

>>52788930
http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/original-dungeons-dragons-rpg
It's OD&D, but it indicated they've started doing just that.

>>52788968
They also did reprints of the 3 core AD&D books

>>52788905
You declare spells (and start the magickal mumbo jumbo) before initiative is rolled. The spell is released in your turn, so if the enemy wins initiative they can attack you and interrupt it.
>>52788944
Not in BX - unless you have a page reference saying otherwise?

>>52788968
They might eventually, but I searched "basic" in the store and all I got was "Dragon+" issue 12.

They are releasing hard copies of B1 and B2 in September, but I just want BECMI copies, or a Rules Cyclopedia.

>>52788836

When you are in the corridor the options are to press on or retreat but also trap and secret door paranoia (because players might assume that there are only meaningful areas in the dungeon) which isn't much better in the long run. The biggest choice for the party is entering the corridor at all because it us such a heavy investment with uncertain payoff.

>>52789019
>You declare spells before initiative is rolled
Where does it say that?

>>52789036
X11 casting restrictions

So, I have a big craft project for the summer: Anon's Big DM Box

It'll be a durable box with a handle, and I'm going to print/bind OSR as I play it in one big book, then print some booklets that players can use for character generation. Also going to make my own DM screen and a dice tower and throw some modules in there (as well as papers where I've pre-populated the rooms).

Then any time someone asks, "Hey, can you show me how to play this Dungeons and Dragons thing?" or some friends and I are bored, I can just bust that motherfucker out and I'm ready to go.

Pretty excited about the project.

>>52788358
>Turns are per side. Initiative winners move, attack and whatnot; then the other side goes and move, attack and whatnot.
Um... is it really? I thinks it's like how >>52788648 writes it. Look again in the combat sequence:

>C. The side with the next highest initiative acts second, and so on using the order given above, until all sides have completed melee.
Focus on the "until all sides have completed melee".

I'll show you what I mean.
At start of combat, initiative is rolled. After that, the group that one initiative gets to move. After that the group that lost initiative gets to move. Then, the winning group gets to shoot, and then the losing group gets to shoot. And so on until the final part, melee, has been completed. At that point, initiative is rolled again and the whole thing restarts.

The thing is that this fixes some issues with combat and strategy. For example, if you are not locked in combat and you see someone charging at you, wouldn't you imagine that you could run away before you had to engage him? If the one winning initiative gets to run up and attack at the same time, then that means that the character just stood there paralyzed even though he should've had time to at least partially react. This way, the combat becomes more reactive rather than just being about taking turns doing the same thing.

>>52789424
Yeah, I know what you mean. In most wargames it works like that - but under this system you only can't interrupt a spell with a melee attack, only ranged attacks and magic. Idk.

Early D&D uses melee and combat interchangeably.
>the next highest initiative acts second, and so on using the order given above
For me this is clearly: one side goes thru this phases, then the other side.

But hey, I don't think you'll break anything so if you like it that way go for it.
For me it has two disadvantages - it's slower, you have to track who moved in phase1 and what actions they can do in subsequent phases.

Btw charges ARE declared before initiative, and obviously you can react accordingly by fleeing or setting them polearms - if you win initiative. Same with casting spells and retreats, it's a risk-reward decision. Not realistic, but gamey and more intense, imo

>>52789691
I guess you're right, I went back and checked out the rulebook again and it's definitely simpler than I made it out to be. It's kind of weird though that Missile, magic and melee aren't just simplified as happening at the time. What is the significance of a bow being fired before a spell goes off? It's not like the other group can do anything about it.

So, I have heard (I think here on /osrg/ of the following method of rolling dice for primary attributes):

>roll 3d6 12 times and write the results of each roll clockwise in a circle
>roll 3d6 a thirteenth time and write the result in the middle
>you may (if you wish) insert the 13th number in between any of the twelve
>pick any consecutive set of six rolls going clockwise

I tried them out and really liked the results. Can someone help me write these rules such that they're easy to follow, for purposes of my personal OSR system? I intend to print a copy for myself and also release it 100% free as a PDF.

>>52790347
I just tried it out and this really is a pretty interesting method. Made me sit and think for a while about what set of numbers I should pick. I think an example image would be helpful, but I grasped the concept after reading through your greentext a second time so it isn't that difficult of a concept.

>>52790347

Interesting. The way I used to hear it was you rolled thirteen stats and could declare any one of them "unlucky thirteen" and drop it.

>>52790038
>What is the significance of <early dnd thing>
1. Gygax!
2. Anti-Gygax editorial drama!
3. Wargaming roots!
4. We created this game before pocket calculators were affordable!
5. Past design decisions forced this new and even more convoluted design decision!
6. Gygax chooses