A good old fashioned arms and armour thread! with the mandatory

Anybody got examples of late 15th century-mid 16th century partial plate armor, of the sort landsknechts and other such relatively well-off heavy infantry might wear?

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>>52756179
I happen to know a few things about those.
I presume you mostly mean german stuff, right?

>>52756239
Mostly, yeah. If you can find any Spanish or Portuguese stuff too, that'd be great.

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>>52756296
well, i'm not that great with spanish and portugese stuff, especially because around that time there weren't many armours that were their signature stuff, with the borderline exception of morion (which existed elswhere too, but somehow it became a spanish thing in culture)

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>>52756348
It's doubly hilarious, that, because the Spanish conquistadors wouldn't have had many, if any, morions. Open-faced sallets like the dude on the right here would've been more common.

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>>52756348
honestly around that time it was mainly either Italian or German style armours with obviously local modifications here and there if I recall correctly.

>>52756372
well the spanish used more than a few german mercenaries, landsknechts among other things. They brought in a lot of things

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anyway for mid 16th century you can't really go wrong with black and white armour for landsknechte. Well you have to look out for the later versions, but anyway it's good enough.
Also nearly every armour that has that stylized cloth looking like >>52756044 is usually close to that date too

>>52756448
Thanks, dude.

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also while lot of people were kind of well off (it's arguable with mercenaries for a number of reasons) there are a lot of source pictures for landsknechts for example that shows them with minimal armour, sometimes just a bishop mantle at best (seen on pic)
Obviously it heavily depended what kind of armour they used on how much money they got (which depended on their position and what could they loot) and what did they actually do in the formation. Firearms users generally used less armour because if everything went good they doesn't really need it and they also spent their money on the firearms.

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>>52756549
also, just to clarify, by bishop mantle I meant the chainmail stuff that protected the neck area to some degree, and the upper part of the torso.

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>>52755525
>mandatory autism

Two-handed swords never had scabbards. Emperor Maximilian explicitly ordering an image of people with sheathed two-handed swords means nothing. Nothing.

>>52756549
Real life did tend to subvert the "all full plate all the time" meme you occasionally see on /tg/, yeah.

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>>52756732
well, first of all, you have to carry all that shit and it gets old really fast if you have to march lots of kilometers in it, and also when your first and foremost protection is a 4-5 meter long pointy stick and your friends with firearms.
Then there is the fact that the other guys also have firearms and while buletproof armors does existed it was mostly helemts and breastplates, and also heay as fuck so went for the cavarly mostly.
Then there were things like artillery.
And among other things you had to pay for it, nobody bought you armour just for your two cute eyes.

So it's quite understandable people tried to ditch armour whenever it wasn't necessary. That said, they weren't bigger idiots than us, so they usually brought as much protection as it was reasonable, sometimes a little more

>>52756865
>>52756917
unisex breastplate?

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but back to late 15 mid 16 stuff.
late 15 still had a few "full" plate among the infantry but statistically speaking that was no longer a thing in 16th century. At the most it was 3/4 plates and most commonly halfplates if we disregard people who had one piece of armor at most (be that a helmet, or some kind of chainmail)

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>>52756984
every armour is unisex. Or to be more precise it's either onse size that fits none or made for a specific person.
That type is just a short lived armour (few decades) that try to use a cheap way to deflect blows. As I said it quickly disappeared so probably it wasn't that effective

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>>52756984
Very short-lived mid-15th century design

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in late 15th century (and I think in 16th century too but I'm not entirely sure about that) padded jacks were still a thing. These are basically stand-alone textile armours, the more hardcore ones were stuffed so much that you can beat the living shit out of other people with it.
Also holds up well against various weapons.

On pic is a reproduction of the Lübeck padded jack from mid 15th century.

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on other non-metal armours the leather jerkin is also mentionable, basically it's a piece of clothing made out of leather, and mostly seen on Landsknechte. There are versions that made out of very thin leather on a textile backing, but a lot of them are thicker and made out of solely leather. While on their own they can stopp some glancing hits some had long flaps that goes down to the knees so there is a guess that probably some variants were used us padding under the armour (around that time there were little to no cloths with the sole purpose of padding, armours, usually civilian cloths were worn under it, and sometimes over it too. This has much to do with the development of armours.)

>mandatory autism

>>52755577
>>52755722

STUDDED LEATHER ISN'T REAL REEEEE

>>52757909
I'm sure it's REAL; it's just decoration, not armor.

I've been doing some worldbuilding and have been drawing the arms and armours of various kindoms and cultures in my setting.
In an area where lamellar is the most prevalent type of metal body armor, what types of weapons would be developed to circumvent it?

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>>52757909
Anon, those are brigandines.

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>>52758582

>>52758582
>>52758604
Do these count as bascinets? Do they have a specific name to differentiate them from the frog/bird-face bascinets? I'm a big fan.

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>>52758638
I've seen them called Griffon Bascinets before. I'm not 100% sure of the historicity or exact origin of that term, but it is what it is.

They have historical precedent, but most of the stuff you find these days similar to it is goofy barbutes-with-visors or otherwise just not very high quality.

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>>52758550
I'll post some stuff too I guess

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>>52758731

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>>52758742
I always found this scale "aventail" interesting.

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>>52758784

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>>52758582
They're not; brigandine is specifically a 15th-16th century style.
Also I believe he was commenting in jest.

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>>52758802

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>>52758827

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>>52758847

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>>52758871
This is it for now.

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Looking for tips on how to better make the next one. This one is okay, but a bit tight. And yeah I know pop rivets are lame but I'm lazy

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>>52758550
Depends on a lot of factors. Are soldiers usually wearing full suits of lamellar, or just cuirass and helmet? As with any metal armor, you can probably rule out slashing blades, at least.

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>>52759052

>>52758709
I feel like they have that same noble "cut" of a barbute, but the superior protection of a bascinet. I probably like them more than the classic greathelms and armets when playing knights/paladins.

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>>52759076
>>52759052

How's the flex when at full grip?

Image is my old pair of mediocre gauntlets, was never happy with the thumbs would much rather have the ones on yours. I think your edges need a little neatening, and the finger covering bits need less flaring out because it looks like it'll catch on stuff.

>>52759308
I can make a fist with it, and the thumb has decent movement, though it doesn't have as much inward bend as I'd like. The edges flared out at lot when i was bending it (I have no anvil, might have been part of the problem) and I don't know how to keep it from happening. At least it would make a backhand hurt like hell. Gonna try to make the left hand flare a lot less if I can

As for the edges, it was the first time I've ever used a bench grinder to do something like that, so they're rather sloppy.

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>>52759381
Well, enough of a fist to hold things

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>>52759419
>>52759381

I'd say grab yourself a mini-anvil and beat it down. You might have to un-rivet them and remove a bit of material to get the closer fit but I think it'd benefit greatly from it.

>>52759593
that sounds like a good idea. Are they expensive? I'd consider buying one for myself if they're not, otherwise it'd be a forty or so minute drive to somewhere I could use one, and again, I'm lazy. Don't mind unriveting them though, would give me a chance to consider redoing them with something that looks a little more historically accurate. Any suggestions on that?

>>52757030
That is the single sexiest suit of armor I have ever seen in my life. Thank you

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>>52759657
Dunno about your local cost but a mini-anvil (these things really are mini) is cheap. Like 10$ cheap cos it's just a solid lump of metal. Rivets... for something passably historical get just dome-head, you'll see them on pretty much everything.

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>>52758811
it looks like a 14th century kit to me, so a better word for it would be coat of plates

Anyone see Gropey lately? He always has good stuff.

>>52759884
most of the ones on amazon i see are around 20 but that's still pretty good. might order one soon, thanks my dude

>>52759071
Most only use a lamellar cuirass.
Only the higher class fighters are donned in full suits.
I had gotten to thinking that thrusting blades would be the most common, but the lamellar plates overlap, don't they?

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Does anyone have pictures of Jezails or similar non-European black powder guns?

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>>52760728
I got you.

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Indian toreador

Speaking of Black Powder, how do you make it?

What resources would your fantasy character need to make explosives?

>>52759960
I am around, but work eats my free time.

>>52760728
Sadly none on my phone :(

>>52761158
75% Saltpeter (Potasium nitrate). You can get this from any large source of shit, piss and wood ash, if you got the time. An early medieval level society will have an industry for this already for the use of food preservation and medicine.

15% Charcoal. 10% Sulfur. Both readily available.

Finely grind all components.

Boom.

>>52761321
So shit, piss, wood ash, charcoal, and sulfur.

I wonder how the fuck the Chinese managed to mix and grind these ingredients by accident. What were they even trying to do?

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>>52760728

>>52761450
>I wonder how the fuck the Chinese managed to mix and grind these ingredients by accident. What were they even trying to do?

Medicine. Each individual component has a myriad of medical value, many still used today. Chinese alchemists sought the heavenly medicine and achieve immortality. Instead, they found gunpowder.

>>52761450
Same thing we do every night, Pinky: trying to create an elixlir of immortality!

>>52761499
>>52761501
The fucking madmen, thanks anons.

>>52756081
is that a small crossbow of some kind? I am curious why it has the wingnut on the end?

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>>52760728
>>52760833
>>52760874
Y'know, I wonder if we can blame the Portuguese for the similarity in the designs of the matchlocks from Japan, Malaysia, and Vietnam.

>>52761609
Yes. The wingnut on the back is the windlass screw mechanism to pull back the steel bowstring and steel arms. The whole thing is steel, and without a windlass screw, it is impossible to span by hand.

>>52761618
Probably.

Question for you folks: I've read that in the 15th century advancing plate armors started to stop using tabards. Shields were also on the out and out for everything outside of jousting. Were these sets of armor otherwise painted so as to identify their owner's / inhabitants? If not, how were armored men identified as friend or foe in the chaos of battle melee? I understand that the practice of battlefield captures and ransoms were also declining compared to the high middle ages, did that contribute to it?

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>>52761836
>contribootin

>>52761937
That is the face of a man who has smelt it.

Someone tell me about this boiled leather armor from ASoIaF.

>>52755834
Hey Hungry, what's the source on this image? It makes me hard at the waist and weak at the knees.

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>>52761836
>I've read that in the 15th century advancing plate armors started to stop using tabards.

Correct. They used surcotes, girona, baldrics etc. Tabards are hundreds of years out of date. Pic related. Arming clothes are incredibly important.

> Shields were also on the out and out for everything outside of jousting.

Patently wrong. While the drop in production cost fro plate made it more readily available, and changed the face of the battlefield to favour polearms, shields were still the go-to defense for most men, including those in full plate. Polearms and various two handed swords were better for defeating armour, but anyone not using a two handed weapon of some form was nearly guaranteed to have a shield. All shapes and sizes imaginable.

>Were these sets of armor otherwise painted so as to identify their owner's / inhabitants?

Occasionally. Textiles are in general easier to maintain.

>how were armored men identified as friend or foe in the chaos of battle melee?

As mentioned above, arming clothes and shields.

>>52762051
1520's from Nuremburg Germany. Thats a Met collection piece iirc.

>>52762286
>Patently wrong. While the drop in production cost fro plate made it more readily available, and changed the face of the battlefield to favour polearms, shields were still the go-to defense for most men, including those in full plate. Polearms and various two handed swords were better for defeating armour, but anyone not using a two handed weapon of some form was nearly guaranteed to have a shield. All shapes and sizes imaginable.

Yeah, this. Most guys still used shields of some sort if they weren't pikemen or other polearm wielders. I dunno if Gropey is counting pavises, incidentally, but I do.

>>52762333
I do, because pavises are not always giant tower shields. The channeled style was just as wide spread for more traditional sizes and even bucklers.

>>52762286
>1520's from Nuremburg Germany. Thats a Met collection piece iirc.
You're a saint, that's exactly what I'm after.

>>52762579
I just google reverse searched it a second ago. is 1522 to be specific.

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>>52755525

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>>52763438

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>>52763472

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>>52763514

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>>52763532

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Does anyone have single edged viking swords?

>>52764817
Dis racist sword.

>>52757068
>every armour is unisex.

Not really. All armour we got from Europe's cut in accordance with male fashion.

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>>52764888
Overwhelmingly so in some instances.

>>52764817
The Klingenmuseum Sohlingen does.

>>52755955

Love the aggressive look of the helm. Can't imagine a better compremise between visibility and ergonomics.

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>>52755525

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>>52755525
Perhaps one of you friends have a picture I'm looking for? It was basically a long list of armors for different historical periods, but I can only find fragments on pinterest.

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>>52764938
>woman knight pretending to be a man
>wears the largest armored codpiece, largest bollock dagger, etc. to prevent you from suspecting

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>>52765273
>woman knight not pretending to be a man
>but her armorer somehow didn't get the message, so her armor always has a monstrous codpiece on it
>she's embarrassed as fuck but also feels like to leave it off would be disrespectful to the armorer who went to all the trouble to forge it

>>52764888
first of all how dare you assume what can and cannot a girl wear, secondly I said that that it's either one-size that fits none so a general mass produced thing, or made for a specific person. If that specific person happens to be male then yes it will be an armor for a male, but for a specific one and might not fit the next guy.

>>52766046
You got any examples in your pic folders of munitions grade plate, the aforementioned mass-produced armor? Can't imagine much of that survived in any decent condition but you never know.

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>>52766066
mass produced stuff usually not full plates but parts of it, like munitions grade breastplate or helmets or arms (jack chains or almain rivets for example)

There were literally whole towns which did nothing but producing armour and that was their source of income. Same with blades and other stuff.

Here is an example of a munitions grade helmet. It's a black and white morion but you can see how little fucks were given when it was made. Museums usually doesn't like to put those out and same with internet stuff. it's the same reason why photographers usually want to take photos of interesting things.

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another good example, now with a breastplate. it's something that was made by someone who had a serious fuck deficit but on the other hand had to produce to the guild standards.

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>>52756029

Ha!I took that picture in Vienna.

>>52766129
>>52766150
There's something about this that I just love, even above the fancy shit.

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>>52766150
although keep in mind that in it's brand new form this was a black and white stuff too, so obviously looked better than in it's current form, something along the lines of this >>52756448 but you can also see that the armourer but way less time in it. seen on the edges, and the lack of decoration and sometimes on the proportion.

>>52766171
well they have a certain beauty in their simplicity

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>>52766168
I usually try to save every good stuff from these threads

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Anywy munitions grade doesn't mean shit tier, it just means it has little to no decoration, simple construction but all in all gives you good protection. It's a cheaper alternative because not just nobles with shitload of money went to war, and not armourer had the fortune to have a noble who throw money at him 24/7

Also when I said museums doesn't like to put these out that doesn't mean they don't have munitions grade stuff. Sometimes they have literally hundreds of them in the back. A few museums even let you look at them

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>>52766301
>angry cow noises

>>52766303
Problem is lots of actual historical munitions stuff never makes it to the modern day because it's just recycled or looted after a war.

Incidentally, what do you refer to the real fancy custom stuff as then? My 40k brain wants to say "artificer" as opposed to "munitions" but is there a proper term for it?

>>52766351
Sort of funny in Illiad movies when you see Achilles, who was said to wear armor so comprehensive no flesh could be seen, either:

1: Wearing fuck-all, to show off his bod (which makes sense if you consider in myth Achilles was invincible, but I think his armor and shield were more "enhancements" with fancy magic on them. Not to mention what he would actually wear since he wasn't actually invincible.)

or 2: Wearing some weird cross between european plate and spartan armor.

When historically speaking he'd probably we wearing that colossal monstrosity.

>>52768800
>Problem is lots of actual historical munitions stuff never makes it to the modern day because it's just recycled or looted after a war.
That's true for fancier stuff too. There are amrour pieces that were repurposed into candle holders a few hundred years after they were made.

>Incidentally, what do you refer to the real fancy custom stuff as then?
custom made, or just call it armour because that's what most people thinking about when they say the word.

>>52768800
>>52768880
bespoke would be another good term

>>52763472
dat ass