Is it realistic for there to be atheists in fantasy worlds where

>>52727696

Atheists...no.

Apostates...yes.

>>52727696
No, they're just relegated to Gnosticism instead.

And the fact you don't understand what I mean by that is proof of how retarded you are for making this thread.

>>52727696
Yes. It's realistic to have at least someone somewhere think anything. People are weird.

>>52727696
Probably. I mean, there are apparently people alive right now that believe the Earth is flat.

>>52727696
Not generally, but there are some exceptions:
1. One might believe that "gods" exist but aren't truly divine; they're simply powerful wizards, demons, etc.
2. One might believe that God's exist but choose not to worship them (this isn't really atheism but it has the same function).
3. Depending on exactly how the gods intervene in the world, one might go one's whole life without actually seeing any gods, so one might assume they're just the equivalent of an urban legend.

“Another priest said,"Is it true you've said you'll believe in any god whose existence can be proved by logical debate?"

"Yes."

Vimes had a feeling about the immediate future and took a few steps away from Dorfl.

"But the gods plainly do exist," said a priest.

"It Is Not Evident."

A bolt of lightning lanced down through the clouds and hit Dorfl's helmet. There was a sheet of flame and then a trickling noise. Dorfl's molten armour formed puddles around his white-hot feet.

"I Don't Call That Much Of An Argument," said Dorfl calmly, from somewhere in the clouds of smoke.”
― Terry Pratchett, Feet of Clay

>>52727753
Number 2 is Platonic atheism iirc. Gods may very well exist but are not considered worthy of worship.

In the sense that "They are just more powerful beings, not necessarily gods." sense, sure.

In the "They don't exist, nah-uh, I don't believe you! LALALALALALA" sense, not really.

>>52727780
I like when Terry Pratchett does some religious satire. Small Gods was fantastic and Bad Omens was great even if I thought it ended rather weak.

>>52727696
>Is it realistic for there to be atheists in fantasy worlds where gods literally come down and fuck shit up regularly?

Despite us having pictures of the earth from space, despite there having been people who have looked at the earth from space and from the moon- there are still people who unironically believe the world is flat.

So, yes.
It's completely within reason to have some people be atheists despite the contrary.

>>52727696
People believe vaccines cause autism, the world is flat, that the Holocaust never happened, and that there is a god.

Even if you saw Zeus at the supermarket every Thursday people wouldn't believe it.

>>52727696
Write it like this:

Atheism is the belief that divine power can come from inside humans rather than from gods. Bam. Atheist cleric.

>>52727696
No, but any setting where the gods just show up to random assholes and still tries to take itself seriously is shit. What's the point of faith when you can make a collect call for Jesus to see what his plans are this weekend?

>>52727960
This is the conclusion I came to when I asked myself what it meant for my Dark Souls character to have a high faith stat but no covenant.

>>52727696
Sort of. Only in a manner similar to Planescape where you know they exist, and are powerful but you aren't willing to acknowledge them as "Gods" just powerful

>>52727860

True dat- But honestly, abominably stupid people aren't much even for NPC, unless the game is comical.

>>52728026
> Literally everyone in the kingdom has an INT score of 1.5 somehow.
> The Lich became evil because everyone around drove him him mad with their absolute retardation.
> He just wants to usher in a new age of not being retarded.

Folks in this setting believe in gods despite contrary evidence, why not the other way?

>>52727696
Yes they are deniers and faithless and their fate is to rot on the wall once they die and never reach a proper afterlife..

>>52728224
I thought the wall got torn down?

>>52728249
Nope, some new god came in, made it ten feet taller.

A better term would be alatry rather than atheism to identify those who do not worship/venerate the gods but recognize they exist.

In all likelihood the position of atheism would be redefined to denying the assertions of the beings that call themselves gods and the status they claim that affords them rather than asserting they do not exist.

>>52728007
The Athar have it right. After all, anyone who visits the Astral can see oceans of dead "gods", so were they really gods or just cosmic faith leeches?

>>52727753
>3. Depending on exactly how the gods intervene in the world, one might go one's whole life without actually seeing any gods, so one might assume they're just the equivalent of an urban legend.

I feel like there'd probably be wandering priests, out proselytizing. If the gods can intervene, you'd probably have clerics etc walking between towns, spruking their god, doing minor spells (cure wounds etc) in return for a few coins or food or whatever, just advertising,

>>52728329
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html

People will believe whatever they need to.
Also, what if they were homeschooled and grew up far away from any god events?

>>52728465
Even so, that could be attributed to that man's personal power. Like a walking healing potion who tells you about how great his god is. You see this in a lot of subversive fantasy where the healers are actually using their religion for political power even if they are using healing magic for the good of some people.

>>52728329
Look, a fantasy atheist.

>>52728518
>>52728484
>>52728329
please take this back to /pol/ or /b/

People are atheists in our world where YHWH regularly comes down and fucks shit up regularly, so yeah

>>52727780
Came here just to post this, glad that someone beat me to it.

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>>52728585

>>52727717
The earth is flat dipshit. What do you think we fought the Civil War for?

>>52728613
>Camps had crematoriums that are capable of incinerating the entire population of said camp in a week.

Also? Worst typhus outbreaks in history? Get real. I suppose those gas-tight doors they ordered were also to contain the typhus? http://i.imgur.com/Ikvhwvf.png

And can you cite to ANYTHING suggesting that supply deliveries or other problems happened at Auschwitz because of Muh Allied bombing?

>>52727823
I always thought that Deus Ex Machina is a crappy way to end a good story, but given the genre (and the fact that he wrote that one with Neil Gaiman), that might actually have been appropriate.

>>52728671
Considering Auscwitz was, in theory, supposed to be holding 30,000 inmates, and you have the Germans own documents saying they could do 4,756 people a day, I'm sure the arithmetic isn't too hard for you.

>>52727780
Blind Io always seemed to like tossing lightning bolts around.

>>52728715
It doesn't help matters that, when they realized they were going to lose, they destroyed as much evidence as they could, concerned that people might be a bit curious where all those people disappeared to. Also, can you guys please go back to /pol/? The only genocide we support around here is goblin. Bat-eared little fuckers.

>>52728745
Kobolds deserve it even more. Out of all the little low level trash races, those ones deserve it the most.

>>52727696
Kinda? It'd be a different form of atheism though, the sort which accepts the existence of these beings, but thinks they are simply very powerful dudes rather than capital g God, and that God himself doesn't exist.

>>52728731
Find me scientific evidence the Great Pyramids exist at all. Find me scientific evidence that the founding fathers existed. Find me scientific evidence the world didn't start 5 minutes ago and all your memories are made up.

>>52728731
>Which I'm sure are absolutely impossible to fake
So, now you're just making shit up?

>That's disregarding how long it takes a MODERN crematorium to get rid of one body.
1875 crematoria could do it in 45 minutes. Could the Nazis do no better? https://ia902607.us.archive.org/11/items/cremationdead00eassgoog/cremationdead00eassgoog.pdf (Page 124-125). You can of course, accelerate the process by things like multiple burnings, as thicker bones like the skull and thighs take longer but are of a comparatively small volume. And of course, children take less time to incinerate than adults.

>So where's the scientific evidence, anon? Do you have any?
Why are you asking scientific evidence for a historical event? What the hell are you even considering "scientific evidence"? You certainly haven't provided any evidence of any sort, just your own pathetic incredulity. I mean for fuck's sake, the Rwandans killed about a million Tutsi in 3 months. If the Germans went that fast, they could get your 6 million Jews in a year and a half, far less time than they were actually running those camps.

>>52727941
One of these things is not like the others

>>52728753
Except Deekin.

>>52728782
Is it the holocaust thing or the god thing?

>>52728763
I didn't say ALL the evidence, loli girls. Folks admitted as much at Nuremburg, not that that matters any to you. Any evidence contrary to your belief is considered to be planted by (((them))), so your position is impossible to disprove. Like the guys who claim that Dinosaur fossils were planted by Jesus, to test our faith.

>>52728791
Doubly so for Deekin, because it's his fault the little rats are so fucking prevalent now.

>thread is on a subject that people with no gaming experience think they can speak on
>gets invaded by newfags from /pol/
Every time. Great work mods.

>>52728804
>Are you actually fucking asking that question?
Yes, I am. Given that scientific evidence is garnered from experiments, and you can't exactly go out and re-create events that happened decades ago, I'm not sure what the hell you're even asking. It's like asking what color is Beethoven's 7th symphony.
>So where are the 6 million bodies? You can find them right? Mass graves and shitloads of ash?
We can. In fact, that link I sent back upthread contains locations of mass graves, not that you read it.

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>>52728818
I'm only pretending to be a racist

>>52728802
Holocaust

Jury is out on the existence of God.

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>>52728816
Deekin was the best character in NWN.

>>52728816
>>52728791
>>52728753
All it takes is one dragon who's peeved you killed the help, or is actually honorbound to protect them, and BOOM! All of your crops are burned.

>>52728847
Out of a list that includes bland generic barbarian, bland generic cockney thief, bland generic cleric, bland generic power mad sorcerer... not much competition! Kill him and undo the plague of kobold bullshit that infests D&D anymore!
>>52728850
Kill them too! If a dragon shows it's ugly mug all it's doing is telling adventurers "hey, loot here!"

>>52727696
When in doubt, do as Granny Weatherwax does. Don't encourage the buggers.

>>52727696
Sure,

>Zeus is just an overgrown air elemental
>Odin is simply a wizard with good PR
>Osiris is clearly the product of advanced necromancy

Worlds in which magic is real can offer alternative magical explanations for miracles and gods.

>>52728601

To confuse the molemen, duh.

>>52728903
Doubly so when the gods themselves can be killed.

>>52728585
Nah, I'm just here to laugh at you. Fuck back off to /pol/ now, the grownups are talking about people as dumb as you are in fantasy games.

>>52728804
>my sources count but yours don't
i guess that's what i get for being baited by /pol/

>>52728947
Uh huh. Congrats, you win the argument. Now go to bed.

>>52728903
They do have the whole Portfolio things going, though. They're tied to whatever their domain is on a fundamental level.

>>52728885
That's not solving much, the crops are burned! Killed or not, the damage has been done. In Beowulf, even though he killed the dragon, his kingdom still fell, because it burned the crops and left the people weak, and they were conquered. By Swedes, I think.

>>52728930
I agree. This isn't the place for that bullshit. Here, when we talk about race, it's usually why people hate elves, or why gnomes are useless. Get out, or go to a Warhammer thread, where everyone is a space nazi anyway.

>>52728988
W-what about pre-4e tieflings?

>>52729016
Meh. Kind of boring, right? At least Aasimar got some good buffs, and make good Paladins. Tieflings weren't even the best choice for rogue, or Warlock, and you'd think they would be made for Warlock, literally.

Pre-4e, of course. Post 4e is a completely different matter.

I'm not sure true atheism would be a thing, but antitheism definitely would

FUCK THOSE FAGGOTS THEY BUILT A BROKEN WORLD I MEAN GODDAMN LOOK AT IT

>>52729016
2e tieflings are the greatest. 3e tieflings are already on the path to boring, generic, lame demons-but-totally-playable-guys! shit, and 4e was a travesty in every way, tieflings just being one of the ways it fucked everything up.

>>52728988
Easy enough, use the mulched kobolds and dragons to grow super crops! Have a druid or priest cast Plant Growth, starvation: SOLVED.

>>52728849
>Show me the experiments then.
What experiments? You can't make a scientific experiment for ANY historic event you retard. What, are we going to re-create the English civil war to see if the Roundheads REALLY won the way they say they did? The very concept is non-applicable.

> YOU CAN'T BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING ILLEGAL TO INVESTIGATE THE HOLOCAUST IN ANY RELEVANT COUNTRIES YOU FUCKING FAGGOT.
Which is why guys like Chris Browning, Robert Van Pelt, Peter Longerreich, and Richard Evans are all in prison? Oh wait, they're not? Whaddaya know, it looks like you can investigate the Holocaust and nobody gives a damn as long as you're actually subscribing to good academic historical discipline.

>>52729100
Druids: We're kind of broken! Not as explosive as Wizards, but we get to change shape, make it rain, call lightning, and grow weed.

>>52729122
Psst: Nothing you say will ever convince him. You can't have an argument with someone who isn't willing to have their mind changed by facts. All you're doing is helping him convert a potentially good thread to /pol/shit.

>>52728969
>They're tied to whatever their domain is on a fundamental level.

Are they really tied on a "fundamental" level? How can you be sure that link isn't something artificial and temporary. The domains may simply be metaphysical resource certain beings have learned to tap. Thus the being claiming to be the "God of Death" would more accurately be described as "some guy who learned to draw power from Death." That's exploitation, not divinity.

>>52729166
It's also pretty clear that on a lot of planes, the gods draw power from faith as well. That makes them faith leeches, occasionally giving some power feedback but clearly not as much as is coming in. I say, purge the parasites!

>>52729182
I don't think a purge is necessary, merely a renegotiation. Mechanism need to be put in place to ensure Faith Based Entities provide an adequate return on investment for their faith providers, and that they follow through on the promises of beneficence (protection, rain, an afterlife, etc.) which have been used to secure their faith supply.

>>52729229
No god is too big to fail! No more bailouts!

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>>52727696
>I do not deny their existence, their extreme power, nor their ability to grant powers to those who sublimate themselves, but it was they who told us they were "Divine." A shepherd may appear as a god to his flock, but that does not make the shepherd a god, merely a much stronger being than his sheep. Are we to take it then that every being of sufficient power relative to us is a "god?" They are powerful, and some worthy of gratitude for their good works, but evidence of divinity, save divinity as retroactively defined by them, has not been given.

>>52729142
You have a point.

>>52727696
Sure. Folks who think they're not gods, they're just powerful things. If they were really gods, we wouldn't be able to understand them and they would annihilate reality by coming into contact with it. Easy.

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>>52728849
>>52728731
>>52728804
>>52728671
>>52728585
>>52728329
Hi, welcome to /tg/. We like talking about games. Now get the fuck out. There's a containment board especially for you.

>>52727696
Atheists in such settings usually believe the gods are charlatans. The Gods are just strong entities cultivating a mystique and myths around themselves. Their importance is lauded mostly by themselves.

Or they may believe that Gods are just manifestations created and empowered by the ritual worship of mortals. Basically gods are just very large spells.

Also an atheist just wouldn't trust that the gods weren't part of [creation event].

Do you take the gods at their word anon?

>>52729358
Again, the Athar. The Athar do believe there IS a cosmic power out there with a grand design, just that the so-called "gods" are sure as hell not IT. Wish that more Planescape stuff was still around, but they fucked it up even by the end of 2e with the retarded faction war/new faction bullshit.

>>52727696
You can believe Gods are real when there is direct evidence that proves it
But that doesn't mean you have to believe in the Gods

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>>52727780
So... what if I pull this on my campaign as DM?

>Player hands a sheet with the atheist word written in the alignment space.
>"Are you sure about this?"... "Are you aware Gods and Goddess literally have come down to earth to hand quests, answer prayers, and so on?"... "Ok, whatever"...
>Game session goes as normal.
>Atheist player goes on a rambling about his character not believing in Gods because...
>"Yeah, yeah, whatever, a bolt comes crashing down and strikes you in the head. You lose half of your current HP and fall unconscious for the next 2 hours"... "Anon, there are settings where worshipping some entity leads to you being flayed alive, you got out easy"...

Based on actual events
Who was in the wrong here

>>52729166
True, there is that possibility. On the other hand, it might be less exploitation and more something mutual. If there isn't a God of Death, then the process of death doesn't function properly - people can't pass on, or go to the wrong afterlife, or something. So God is a job and title just like King - and like a King, you might not like the one in charge, but they definitely exist.

>>52728948
yeah it's best to ignore these people

>>52729705
I would say you were in the wrong, solely because Fairy Tail is trash

>>52727696
I just ate a coconut cake watching a manogoworm extraction, and I still think that is a fucked up image.

>>52729893
Mango worm extractions are oddly satisfying to watch.

>>52727696
Pretty realistic, I would say. Hell, we have people irl that believe some WAY out there bullshit, despite clear evidence to the contrary. If you don't believe me, then take a few minutes to look at /x/. I'm sure there's at least one thread up right now with crazies talking about how the earth is flat and NASA is a giant coverup corp. You'll also find people who legitimately believe they are some kind of 'otherkin', some who believe in tulpas (imaginary friends that become real by believing in them hard enough), the list goes on.

So yeah, it's perfectly realistic for someone to be an atheist, even if a god shows up personally to prove them otherwise. Hell, I'll even give you the simplest reasoning a character like that would likely use.

>It's magic/a wizard did it

Even if a god DID show up to personally demonstrate their existence, they could respond

>Miracles? That doesn't prove anything. There's plenty of powerful wizards and sorcerers. I'm not going to believe you're a "GOD" just because you know some powerful magic. Ol' Archmage "Collateral Carl" the next kingdom over can create and destroy entire planes of existence, but you don't hear him going around claiming to be a god. Get over yourself.

>>52727941
>Even if you saw Zeus at the supermarket every Thursday people wouldn't believe it.
I sure as hell wouldn't believe that either. A strip club, bar, or whore house would be much likelier places to run into Zeus on a regular basis than the supermarket, come on.

>>52727753
>>52727787
2. is "alatrist polytheist", where "a-latrist" means "without-worship".

>>52728579
>People are atheists in our world where YHWH regularly comes down and fucks shit up regularly, so yeah
If YHWH exists, he is a lying fucking faggot. Let me guess, you think one of those times he "fucks shit up" would be the Flood story, right? Despite the fact that it was blatantly plagiarized from the Epic of Gilgamesh, which predates even the earliest book of the bible by about 1000 years.

>>52727714
Gnostics arent Atheists.

>And the fact you don't understand what I mean by that is proof of how retarded you are

Yea about that...

>>52728579
Here's your award for most retarded post anon

>>52728731
>HURR DURR GIBS EBIDENCE
>receives evidence
>HURRR DAT NUT EBIDENCE, GIBS EBIDENCE DUUURRRR DUURRRR OMFG IM SOFA KING WE TODD ED

>>52728849
He linked you to plenty of documented historical evidence. Some of the Nazis that were tried at Nuremberg even admitted as much. You're just a retarded fucking faggot, but at the very least, you serve as a perfect answer to OP's question.
>the answer is yes, it is realistic to stubbornly believe the exact opposite of reality despite evidence

>>52729705
If I were GM, I'd have had the gods deliver a warning first at least. The old 'three strikes and you're out' routine usually works pretty well.

ITT
tg Denies the Holocaust

>>52730404
Holy shit Spice man is a fa/tg/uy

>>52727696
A majority atheists reject the principal of the word of god in the real world because "IT'S FUCKING INSANE!" And there is no proof for it plus, plus! there is evidence that disproves texts of creation and feats of magic.

Now said atheist who lives on evidence and fact, now lives in a magical world, with magic! They will have to accept the reality of things they are born witness to. But reality and fantasy are two different things.

>>52730012
Stop talking about Flat E*rthers, your only making them stronger

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>>52730485
I could see a thing where the gods get rejected as gods since fantasy gods tend to be definable beings and lose a lot of mysticism.

In the real world, if a guy is diagnosed with some fatal illness in terminal stage recovers to full heal, we call the church, treat it as a miracle and so on. On fantasy settings, that's like a lazy Sunday for a cleric. Reanimating the dead is impossible for our modern science. Any middle level cleric can resurrect someone recently dead, and beginner necromancers can have skeletons at their service.

So, why if God in our world is defined by His capacity to defy natural laws, both directly and indirectly, in order to keep his plan going on, in fantasy settings Gods and Goddess are limited to do the same than some regular magician?

In a sense, any wizard who questions the divinity of the entities called Gods is right if that's their entire repertoire. But the DM fails because he can't think outside the box. Magic does have some sort of rules and expectancies, even in the DM guide is clearly explained that even if fire can appear out of thin air, there should be a reason, some sort of logic or rules so the players don't feel cheated when a fireball incinerates them.

Well, Gods can and should be able to break those rules at will, do stuff outside the realm of what's possible, even with magic. And that should be a mental fuck, because it breaks the reality the wizards were living on. In a sense, they are fucking terrifying, because everything a wizard can learn through his life is written on spellbooks, and these "Gods" are clearly using them as toilet paper.

>Awww, how cute, you created an entire new plane? How long it took you? Oh, wait, I just deleted your plane because I erased the spell from your character sheet and you can't remember it any longer. Who would believe you if you said otherwise? Even more, you always have been a fighter from the same level, you never were a wizard at all, and that's what all the people you have meet remember from now on. Nope, no saving throw allowed, but if you pray a lot for a couple years...

>>52729705
It's a stupid move. Now you've established that the Gods are actively intervening over trivial shit, so why aren't they doing that when a village full of worshippers gets raided by orcs or a pious churchgirl gets violated by bandits?

>>52730522

This

>>52729298

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>>52730526
Being in the presence of something divine or of divine make should always be an awe-inspiring and frightening experience.
I just think it's hard to translate this into games because a lot of people have difficulty wrapping their heads around something so above and beyond themselves.

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>>52729383
Haha, fuck off mate.

You talk about whatever off-topic bullshit someone bolts a "stat me" clause to or some other shitty excuse. Like /v/ except worse. You'd better believe we're going to talk about this.

Completely 100% absolutely /tg/ related and I guarantee I can prove that it's somehow related to this thread, stat me.

>>52730595
retard

>>52727696
>"I don't believe in thunderstorms"
Atheists, no. Those who want gods to go and fuck themselves can exist, though.

>>52729939
Yup. Pure catharsis. It's like the morbid oozes out of your feelings.

>>52730012
>>52727696
>Miracles? That doesn't prove anything. There's plenty of powerful wizards and sorcerers. I'm not going to believe you're a "GOD" just because you know some powerful magic. Ol' Archmage "Collateral Carl" the next kingdom over can create and destroy entire planes of existence, but you don't hear him going around claiming to be a god. Get over yourself.

Thta reminds me that the Talmud has rabbis dissing each other, because claiming that "if I'm right, let this or that miracle happen and it does happen" is not an aceptable argument.

>“If the Halakhah [the Jewish Code of Law] is in accordance to me, let this carob tree prove it.”
>The carob tree immediately uprooted itself and moved one hundred cubits—and some say four hundred cubits—from its original place.
>the Sages are undeterred. They say, “Proof cannot be brought from a carob tree.”
>Yet the determined Rabbi Eliezer tells the Sages, “If the Halakhah is in accordance with me, let the channel of water prove it.”
>“[T]he channel of water immediately flowed backwards,” against the direction in which it usually flowed.
>Yet Rabbi Yehoshua and the Sages don’t change their minds.
>The high point is clearly the moment when Rabbi Eliezer asks God himself to intercede.
>The Sages, annoyed by the heavenly voice, cry foul. Rabbi Yehoshua quotes from Deuteronomy 30:12: “The Torah is not in heaven.”
>since God already gave the Torah to the Jewish people on Mount Sinai, we no longer listen to heavenly voices. That is, disputes about the meaning of any passage are left to humans to decide. God is irrelevant.
>It states that generations later, Rabbi Natan, had a vision. In the vision he asked Elijah the Prophet what the Almighty did when Rabbi Yehoshua refused to heed the heavenly voice. Elijah the Prophet responded, “God smiled and said, ‘My sons have defeated me! My sons have defeated me!’

>>52727696
Well assuming it's a big world even if the gods do come down regularly not everyone will witness it, like tornado happen regularly but plenty of people never see tornado. Even with people spreading the news of their gods news doesn't spread fast in a fantasy world and there's probably tons of isolated peoples who either think the whole god thing is a bunch of crap as they've never seen anything that would lead them to believe in one or who have never even heard of the concept of a god.

>>52728613
Don't want to derail this again, but I'm curious as to what evidence you would accept as definitive proof, given that you discount out of hand any eye witnesses and evidence of the ovens as "b-but typhus".

You also remind me of that monkey professor in futurama that wants evidence of evolution, but just dismisses everything that is presented to him as insufficient.

>>52727960
Self belief is the best kind of faith

>>52727696
It isn't any weirder than theists in a setting without gods.

>>52730847
>Don't want to derail this again,
Then stop fucking replying to the faggot. He's probably b& for shitposting at this point anyways.

He's fucking retarded, and there is nothing you can do to change that. Just accept it and move on.

>>52730946
Fair point

>>52730188
And you prove the point of not understanding what was said and being an idiot.

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>>52727696
>Is it realistic for there to be atheists in fantasy worlds where gods literally come down and fuck shit up regularly?

>>52727820
>In the sense that "They are just more powerful beings, not necessarily gods." sense, sure.

>>52727696
Thing that claim to be gods usually are just aliens in my settings (mostly because every bit of creative i do is in the same universe).

It's like in SG1, the Goa'uld are dickhead powerful vaguely immortal beings with tech that's basically magic to the layman. They claim to be gods because why would you question the guy who just blew up a mountain with a gesture? Add in the Ja'fa as loyal and enslaved and the humans as just enslaved. You still get people who are like 'gods don't exist you arn't god' and then get zapped or zap.

Then the Ori show up and make it even more annoying...

But seriously OP, Stargate did this pretty well.

>>52727696
It's realistic as being fucking stupid is realistic.

>>52730586
Someone has to rise above the oceans of shit to become proper servants. You think Odin would send Valkyries after Joe McDirtfarmer?

>>52727696
>Is it realistic for there to be atheists in fantasy worlds where gods literally come down and fuck shit up regularly?
Well, yes in two senses.

One where you would have the weirdos who refuse to believe in them despite all the proof. Kind of like the reverse of religion in the real world, I guess?

And the other would be a more sensible way to approach it where the atheists would be more like anti-worshipers, who acknowledge the existence of gods but don't believe in the religions based around them.

>>52727696
Yes, though as I view it, it becomes more an anarchic rejection of the authority of religion rather than substance of religion.

>>52731372
Came here to post Tanya, but you beat me to it. noice.

>>52727696
Yes, even if fantasy world there might be a ton of stupid/delusional/insane people.

>>52728715
>Auscwitz
If you mean Auschwitz even then wrong.
unless along with the jews nazis were gassing themsleves through wooden doors tha open inwards and have a 2 inches gap between the floor.

>>52727696

Gods in most polytheist religions aren't gods.
They're extremely powerful, extremely invasive entities with no concern for human lives.
They frequently and randomly take out their anger on human beings, when they're not busy raping our women.

>>52727696
That would make for a nice alt art for Necropotence

>>52727696
Chocolate. I remember when they first invented chocolate. Sweet, sweet chocolate.
I always HATED IT!

>>52730595
>Like /v/ except worse
/tg/ doesn't have daily thread about how communism and central planned market would improve games. Yet

>>52729182
Hey, most of faith return happens in afterlife. It's not like upper planes afterlife prosperity supports itself. There is a ton evidence based on planewalking and communication with dead.
But if you worship evil deities then yes, most your faith will be spent on gathering archpriest's slave harems and infighting between demons on lower planes.

>>52729298
Yes, any being with power to change reality at will in their domain and extending its power to other worlds to some extent is called god. If you open Mage College's Common dictionary, the defnition is written right there.

Also it is self-evident that there is no truly omnipotent being wishing to show itself.

>>52728484
>blogspot

real scientific

>>52727696
Sure.

"These people aren't gods, they're merely extremely powerful creatures who abuse their power to satisfy their egomania. A true god, however, simply doesn't exist and cannot exist."

>>52727696

Unless they'd actually seen them, yes.

>>52727696
You'd be more likely to find someone who has abandoned the gods. Understands they exist, just refused to pray to them or provide worship.

>>52727696

In a world full of magic do you mean?
Yeah, of course.

I played a Wizard that basically believed all gods were just extremely powerful mortals playing Wizard of Oz.

Never really factored into the game at all, but still, it is possible.

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>>52728052
I'd play it!

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>>52728849
You shouldn't talk about something you clearly don't understand just because you read it online and you tought that could make you more interesting or edgy or whatever.
All you are doing here is getting ridiculed.

>>52731824
Who said history was scientific?

>>52727696

As always, the short answer is "Yes, obviously" and the long answer is a semantic dogpile where you can pick whatever label you like for "Just because gods exist as a mundane fact of life doesn't mean I have any motive to be religious."

To anyone not interested in a clusterfuck of semantic arguments, a person without religion is an atheist.

>>52727696
There are people in this world who do believe in deities despite no evidence to support this whatsoever, so the contrary could easily be true in a world where the existance of gods is a proven fact.

>>52727696
There are people in this world who think a horses trot sounds exactly like two halves of a coconut being tapped together.

I've met one person who told me (the one riding the horse) that something must be wrong with it's shoes because it sounds wrong. When i told them they were dumb as shit, the shoes are fine, and that's what they sound like on cobble they did not believe me

To this day that person still does not believe that horses sound the way they actually do.

People will disbelieve anything that goes against what they want to be true or expect to be true. I'm sure, if a god came down all physical and shit, and met on of these people the convo might be like this:

>god: hey shithead i am a god and can do godly things. worship me
>shithead: well since there is no SCIENTIFIC evidence you can't exist
>God: i just wiped out a small civilization
>Shithead: No evidence that the civilization EVER EXISTED so no you didn't
>God: i hope you enjoy hell-fire
>Shithead: Since this fire was obviously created in order to convince me that you are a god, you obviously aren't because you are trying too hard to make it seem real

and so the circle of dumb continues...

>>52727696
you deny their divinity, you accept that there are extraordinarily powerful beings, but they arent deities, merely powerful extraplanar interlopers

they are god-like, closer than mortals, but not the metaphysical nightmare of a capital G GOD

Taking the baseline assumptions of D&D, you could have atheism of the sort outlined in the brothers Kharamazov, which might more accurately be described as anti-theism. In other words, you would acknowledge the existence of divine beings, but refuse to worship them, on the grounds that they are immoral, or evil, or otherwise not worthy of worship.

>>52732712

Another possible type of atheism could be the questioning of the origin of divine miracles. After all, if Wizards and Sorcerors get their magic from non-divine sources, whose to say that clerics and Paladins are not merely under a misapprehension about the divine origins of their abilities.

>>52732721
>>52732712

Further, you might consider gods to be merely one of a number of very powerful beings in the multiverse, and refuse to worship them on those grounds.

>>52727860
>Despite us having pictures of the earth from space, despite there having been people who have looked at the earth from space and from the moon- there are still people who unironically believe the world is flat.

Wait, what?

>>52728465
This is the weakest argument against atheism in fantasy. In a world where there's wizards, why would I believe that those powers are divine and not just powerful magic?

>>52732758
Much like the holocaust denier up there, there are people who don't understand the logistics involved in conspiracy.

Flat Earthers are one such group, they genuinely believe the moon land was faked, the pictures from space are fake, and everyone talking about the roundness is a shill.

Too many people seduced by conspiracy...

>>52732783

I do find it interesting how many people deny the Nuremberg trials.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj84I3g_6jTAhWD0hoKHUBICn4QFggzMAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ushmm.org%2Foutreach%2Fen%2Farticle.php%3FModuleId%3D10007722&usg=AFQjCNFh5-bWOGw0aA9dXTwvk5dCK-SrmA

>People think by denying something it makes them right.
>Little do they know people tend to take an objectively wider view of things.

In other words conpiracy nuts are blind and deaf to reality.

>>52731460
If Odin is a petty enough cunt to smite people for not believing him, yes.

When the gods are THAT fucking petty and active it makes the whole damn game feel like a pointless "Superman is on the moon, can the shitty B-list Justice League members no one cares about save the day?" comic book issue.

>>52732783
The hilarious thing is, it would have cost the US government less to get people to land on the Moon, than fake going to the Moon in a studio.

The costs for the special effects (and keeping the filming secret) would be far beyond whatever NASA spend on going to the Moon.

>>52733415
>That feel when entire Young Justice series is called pointless and shitty because the cast are not the strongest
A-anon, please, go easy on me.

>>52728329
Gb2reddit

>>52733538
I mean you might have enjoyed watching the show, and that's cool because I like watching stupid people doing pointless shit too, but yes, in-universe they're actually pointless.

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>>52727696
It's realistic.
" you approach a largely overweight peasant with a strange hat and fur like a bear around his neck. He exclaims to the cleric 'I can't believe it's the current year and people are still becoming clerics.'"

>>52733568
Well, the universe is dumbfuck retarted to begin with, but you can still do cool, even meaningful shit even if you're not yet another Superman recolor.

But I see your point, active, petty, powerful gods just oust the players off the scene most of the time.

>>52730404
Didn't read the thread

>>52733415
It's even worse. Superman can't be everywhere, which means you need B and C listers to handle the regional threats. This situation is like some sort of weird 50s comic where Superman is out fighting jaywalkers while Lex Luthor is conquering the world.

>>52729705
I'd say your Atheist player can't keep it in his pants and your GM's a boring, petty cunt that opened up a whole can of worms and made his own setting stupid.

Both were in the wrong.

>>52729383
I wonder if there's a concentration camp boardgame.

The closest thing would be a philosophy that gods and deities have no place meddling with mortal lives, no matter what they represent or what morals they reward.

Believing that gods exist when they do and have physical influence on the world is a very hard to follow belief. A group of people who believe the gods are meddlers and Interlopers who should fuck off can be seen as much more compelling.

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>>52733748
>Atheist who didn't switch to anti-theist in a pretend game where gods objectively exist

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>>52733947
>a pretend game where gods objectively exist [and interfere with the world]

We literally just covered why this is fucking stupid itself. Lurk moar and read the fucking thread, newfag.

Pic related, it's you.

>>52730592
And thats understandable i feel. Not a lot of people are really able to think outside the box to such a level. Im pretty sure i coulnt, atleast not without some deep thinking for an hour or two so doing it on the fly is a miracle in itself.

>>52730595
1 int

>>52727982

Well it's not faith of you have tangible evidence they exist.

>>52727696
Same way Picard didn't convert to Q worship or Sheridan to Vorlon worship.

>>52729705

Bad dming. I think you need to ask him for a good reason why his character is rejecting the gods. It's fine if he doesn't have proof- maybe he believes magic comes from another source? The average person wouldn't see miracles daily. So, he rejects it and then because he's a PC and therefore Important in the universe perhaps a god chooses to convince him somehow, or use him for some purpose.

idk man you suck

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Of course I've seen God. Some 10-year-old kid in my town keeps it in a computer box. Didn't even have to fight it, just enter a code.
It's weaker than Megatwo and Megafug so who cares.

>>52730586
They don't care about whorshipers, if fuckibg course. They just care about trivial shit.

Worship is just your natural "No, dad, no!" reaction when Zeus goes full Goofy Time.

>>52729456
I like the idea of gods being massive ritual spells

>>52730679
>>52734518
Make with the nerd shit already, nerd boy.

>>52727696
It can be done well. The Dwemer in the Elder Scrolls "worshipped" logic.

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/ancient-tales-dwemer-part-xi-azura-and-box

Reminder that the Ahtar can literally depower gods in Planescape just from sheer disbelief in their claims to divinity.

>>52732758
Go to the /x/ board and see for yourself.

>>52727696
In a world where gods are observable fact, atheism becomes an endeavor to oppose the gods and, if possible, destroy them.

>>52735973
>Reminder that the Ahtar can literally depower gods in Planescape just from sheer disbelief in their claims to divinity.

Well, they can cast priest spells based on their belief that the gods are just scamming everyone and the real magic is coming from the Astral Plane, but where did they ever depower a god?

>>52733757
RaHoWa?
Or would that fall more into the category of Proof of Concept, given that you can't actually play it?

If, from your standpoint, God is the creator being of the universe, then yeah. You could deny the divinity of all the gods.

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>>52727960
So Beta Ray Bill is a Paladin of the self?

>>52728915
I thought it was to get rid of florida, we failed but we put up a good fight

>>52738906
>Florida
Florida is the disease ridden benis of america... should be removed tbqhfamalamadingdong

t. former and soon to be again floridafag

>>52727696
As long as they're ceramic, all the better to survive the smiting of the gods

But Terry Pratchett aside, yes, because just because a super advanced being declares that its a god, and does all this stuff, doesn't prove that its a god. Could just be a technologically advanced alien.

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>>52727696
>alignment always evil

>>52739037
It really all depends on the setting too. Fucking Forgotten Realms has regular frigging mortals that have watched Gods rise and fall. If your Gods have a shorter shelf life than some of your mortals, it might as well be a title like "District Manager of War"

>>52729705
I would have only used it if said "May God strike me down where i stand" or similar, and probably without making any damage.

Make him doubt if it was truly a god or a nearby wizard with a sense of humour.

Going by D&D standards, atheism kills gods since they need believers to exist