How come the force is so underpowered? in other settings, wizards

>>52723827
We see the Force do crap like throwing Star Destroyers. That seems plenty powerful. Also, Wizards being gods is frequently a balance issue.

>>52723883
Palps was moderately OP.

>>52723827
The biggest power of the force is how it enables you to always be in the absolutely right place at the right time to change the fate of the galaxy.

>>52723827
Most high level jedi and sith are capable of razing the surfaces of planets they just dont because itd ruin the story if everyone went around one shotting planets.

>>52723827
Not all settings have the same power level, hombre.

Put Superboy Prime in the setting of say, War of the Worlds and yeah, funny how he seems to be literally fucking invincible. How about you don't compare between settings with wildly differing standards of what is 'powerful'. Within its universe, the force is pretty damn powerful and lets its users do things that ordinary people cannot and apply to achieve things that even an orbiting battleship cannot.

tl;dr - Don't be a moron and consider powers from a setting, within the context of the setting they were designed for, not some arbitrary pick of another setting with a vastly different standard for 'power'.

>>52723827

Aside from the whole power comparison thing being stupid, you're missing the point.

Jedi were inspired by samurai movies, and their abilities more directly relate to various kinds of supernaturally skilled and powerful martial artists or Wuxia heroes that typical western fantasy ideas like wizardry. The expanded universe made the force able to do far bigger and crazier things, but at least on screen it was always depicted as much more personal. Although >>52724167 also has a point, in that the Force is apparently pure plot power to let those personal scale actions have extremely potent consequences.

>>52723827
When it's done right, The force is about wisdom and clarity, not power levels.

It's why Zayne Carrick was an infinitely better character and Jedi than Starkiller, even ignoring his superior waifu tastes.

>>52724167
This is the correct answer.

OP is a faggot with objectively shitty ideas.

>>52723827
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_storm_(wormhole)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Thought_bomb

There's also a Dark Jedi who used Telekinesis ( i think) to smash two suns together, creating a fuckhuge nebula just to slow down a jedi strike team chasing him

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>>52724445
We should probably get this out of the way and be done

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>>52724469
Yeah go fuck yourself. NuCanon is a ball of shit that should never have seen the light of day.

Go back to wanking off to Wendig.

>>52724445
Shitty writers devolving the Force down into power-ranking garbage and 'x-men power-lists' and I'm supposed to feel bad that they chucked the whole thing into the bin. It's uncreative shits like OP and those pandering to them that dragged the old canon into the mud.

>>52724445
Yeah, that's the reason why cutting off all this EU bullshit was actually the best thing Disney has done to the franchise.

>>52724634
Go read Tales of the Jedi, then weep for what has been lost.

>>52724634
>>52724654

Without getting into whether it was good or bad, it was necessary. Disney want to do stuff with the license, not retread old ground that nobody cares about and try to sort the dross from the good stuff.

They appear to be importing the good bits into the new canon anyway, while leaving the shitty stuff behind.

>>52724677
Thanks for summarizing what I think about the new canon in a non-offensive way.
People who unironically bring up Starkiller still need to fuck off, though.

>>52724677
Which all one could really ask for, I guess

>>52724634
It was mostly the fact that there were practically no barriers to entry for EU writers.
While this gave you good stuff that was a bit out there, like kotor 2 and the kotor comic series, you also got shit like the Suncrusher and Traviss crap going under the radar.
The really shitty EU writers also had the nasty habit of trying to one up each other, rather than creating antagonists that were dangerous in ways other than force power levels, such as Thrawn.

>>52724732
>KOTOR 2
>Good
Pick one and only one. Anyone drinking the Kreia-aid should be banned from the star wars fandom forever.

Suncrusher and the whole NJO bullshit i can do without but the rest is at least readable without popping a bloodvessel.

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>>52724778
I'll pick both, and smile at the fact that Luke canonically took the Kreiapill.

>>52724445
That was a Sith, and he required a meditation chamber and a focus to do it.

>>52723827
>If anything truly is possible with the force
What gave you that idea?

>>52724778
>KOTOR 2 was bad for bringing up a valid criticism of the Force
It was so good it dictated the plot of the latest Star Wars.

>>52724840
If you are referring to the TLJ teaser, what Luke says is with 99.9% certainty taken out of context.
It's going to be something along the line of either
>"It's time for the Jedi to end their exile and return to the fight."
or
>"It is time for the Jedi to end, and a new tradition of force-users to take their place. You are the first of that tradition, Rey."

>>52724935

I'm pretty sure the whole push is towards neutral force users, given the whole thing about balance. Light and dark are lies, the force is the force.

>>52724935
>Implying this is not the result of KOTOR 2
The Jedi Order rebuilt after the council was slaughtered as a changed organization that was interventionist as fuck and suffered a millennial long backlash for kidnapping kids and toppling governments in favor of the Republic

>>52724812
>>52724904
I'm more than fine with the direction they're taking with the Force and the focus being more on it as a philosophy/religion along with trying to discover or rediscover how it all fits together. Leave the power-wank in the garbage where it belongs. Also, if this turns out to be a case of needing to kill an orphan for every good deed you do in order to achieve some fucked 'balance' and that's what being a 'grey jedi' boils down to, Star Wars will have truly lost me.

>>52725081

Hopefully it'll be more along the lines of 'The Jedi expecting people to act like unemotional robots was really fucking stupid', embracing the wholeness of human experience, both passion and control, rather than rigidly clinging to one or the other.

>>52725105
So... exactly like the New Jedi Order.

>>52725105
>>52725148
Every bittersweet story of love and loss has had the same message. You can love someone, realize that the time you spent together was important and precious, but when they go, you find a way to make peace with that, cherish the memories you made together and keep them in your heart while moving forward. Doesn't mean you don't do everything *ethical* in your power to save/help them, but no one is omnipotent, nor a god (at least not those this message is usually given to).

All it's saying is to not give into despair and use that connection as an excuse to self-destruct or commit unspeakable atrocities in the name of lost love. Easy enough to get viewers to accept this view when the loved one is already in the ground but try to do so when they're all still alive and suddenly accusations of being a heartless monster who shuns love and attachments start flying around. Most fans seem incapable of accepting this message and Anakin couldn't wrap is dumbass head around the concept either.

Don't know if the fault is with the viewers, the creators, Lucas or all of them. 'If you love someone, let them go' can't be that hard to wrap one's head around.

>>52725105
>'The Jedi expecting people to act like unemotional robots was really fucking stupid'

This was never the case though.
They warned against too strong attachment but they clearly had relationships and emotions.

>>52724935
You appear to have quoted the wrong person, as what I mentioned has absolutely nothing to do with TLJ - it's from Tales of the Jedi: the Golden Age of the Sith.

>>52723827
> I don't know shit about the setting
> let me postulate about the setting in absolutes
go fuck yourself

>>52723827
>I don't see Darth Vader force crushing planets or anything like that.
Where's the problem?

>>52724199
Starkiller was about being a "bad" force wielder in that he used it only for UNLIMITED POWAH to becoming a good grey jedi in that he embraced both sides of the force

In the Darth Plagueis novel, Plagueis gets near death during an assassination attempt and starts throwing Force telekinesis blasts that tear the assassins' bodies apart, leaving the room covered in their gibbed chunks.

Always thought that part was cool.

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>>52725081
The impression I got from Luke is "The only way for the Sith to well and truly be defeated is for the Jedi to go down with it, as each feeds the other"

So yeah, New Jedi Order with a different name

>>52723827
A: SBP could beat up almost any setting, thats a shitty example and you should feel bad for using it.
B: Darth Nihilus can eat planets,

>>52724190
Only one Sith has been described as specifically this powerful. Since him, they've had to build Death Stars for things like that.

>>52724469
>>52724445
>>52724634
>>52724654

You might want to take the mouse cock out of your mouths, seeing as they now canonified this retarded idea that Palpatine was trying to achieve immortality by pulling an Evangelion and turning everyone into tang.

>>52725081
Oh, i get it, you're one of those retards that thought Kreia wasn't just being the devil's advocate to make you think about your actions and their consequences.
You really did think she advocated shitting on every beggar for the fun of it.
Poor bastard.

>>52731524
No, simply convinced that untalented shitstains will inevitably degrade and strip away any subtlety, meaning or depth (if the current creators can even achieve this, but at least they seem to be giving it a try) giving to 'balance', the philosophies one can find about/within the Force and any spiritualism they manage to insert in there all the while mouth-breathing retards will happily shovel that shit and praise the notion of killing an orphan for every life saved because all that matters is being able to shoot lighting and choking whoever, whenever while proudly proclaiming to be a 'gray jedi'.

>>52723827
The Force is generally underpowered compared to other universes (speaking in terms of average force user vs average superhuman of other universe), however combat precognition properly applied is a really strong ability in small scale combat.

A Jedi properly trained for combat, instead of diplomacy and monastic life whose main form of combat training consists of what is essentially the laser sword equivalent of yoga, is (when acting alone) a very good assassin, bounty hunter, bodyguard, thief, or fighter. When acting in groups, their combat vulnerabilities almost vanish and they become highly effective battlefield soldiers. If the necessary concentrations cannot be achieved, they can instead be paired with mundane soldiers as highly versatile multipurpose support troops (capable of healing, removing smoke or poison gas, detecting hostile organics at long range, using combat clairvoyance to detect enemy sniper fire, supplementary long range communication with other force users, etc.) while also being highly effective close quarters defense and improving the mobility of the unit due to being what is essentially a living shield that throws your opponents attacks back at them.

>>52732149
Gray Jedi were a mistake.
There needs to be some material that hammers home the obvious so spastics finally grasp it, namely that Lightning isn't primarily electrical power pulled out of their ass for X force points; it's the physical manifestation of somebody hating you to death via the force.
You CAN'T do that shit and still claim you're anything other than Dark side, because the mere fact you hate somebody that badly and are willing to act on it means you're already fucked.
Same with choking. Sure, superficially it seems the same as just pushing someone around but applying the pressure elsewhere, but the fact remains that mentally your primary goal is inflicting pain, rather than attempting to defend yourself or others.

>>52732175
>The Force is generally underpowered compared to other universes

Which is why crossovers and Universe v Universe threads are cancer.

>>52732262
Well, I do like to think about that sometimes, since a lot of the stuff I'm interested in basically boils down to "You're weaker than the other guy and you can never be stronger, but you have to beat him anyway". In my experience, the Force tends to be a good fit for that because it greatly expands a characters tactical options while only notably increasing their raw power if the writer sucks.

In a crossover with, for instance, Marvel, a Force User should be unable to go toe to toe with Spiderman (assuming no lightsaber or Spidey destroys it quickly because he's not an idiot), but their support abilities (stun, push, mental effects) could give them the edge necessary to win, especially since their version of combat clarivoyance is less prone to backfiring.

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>>52725081
>I'm more than fine with the direction they're taking with the Force and the focus being more on it as a philosophy/religion along with trying to discover or rediscover how it all fits together.
This scene makes me hopeful that at least some people working on Star Wars still get it.

>>52723827
>>52724192
>>52727616
Can someone tell me why Superboy Prime is so overpowered that he was the example as opposed to just Superman?

>>52723827
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMUKGTkiWik

If you think of the Force as magic that melts people and destroys planets, I'm afraid you've missed the point entirely.

>>52732459
Because he doesn't have super strength/durability/flight

He's Ultra telekinetic, so he can "hit" as hard as he wants, fly as fast as he can imagine, deflect any amount of damage directed at him, oh and punch holes in reality.

>>52732457
did he died??

>>52724574
Are you sure that wasn't written by Dr Seuss?

>>52732856
yes.
Maul is kil

>>52731090
Its happened on a few occasions. Jedi masters are capable of containing dark side rituals capable of razing continents.

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>>52723827
That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Superboy Prime" bullshit that's going on in the crossover system right now. The Force deserves much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself became a Jedi for 2,400,000 Credits (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with the force for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my mind.

Jedi Masters spend years working on the force and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest powers known to mankind.

The force is thrice as useful as comic powers and thrice as powerful for that matter too. Anything a Cape Hero can cut through, a Jedi can cut through better. I'm pretty sure the force could easily bisect a Krptonian in full sunlight with a simple mental slash.

Ever wonder why DC never bothered crossing over with Star Wars? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Jedi and their force of destruction. Even in the jedi civil war, Sith soldiers targeted the men with the force first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? The force is simply the best power that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the crossovers system.

>>52724146
EU Palps could body hop and create fleet-destroying hyperspace-breaching force storms. (Which was the worst part of Dark Empire, the various B-plots were all better.)

>>52732856
Nah, he just got sliced in half. He's shown an ability to come back from that before, so we can't be sure.

Yeah, he dead.

>>52723883
>Wizards being gods is frequently a balance issue

if magic isn't strictly better than what you can accomplish physically, why even have magic? I mean that's the sole reason magic exists in stories,to solve problems that can't be solved otherwise.

>>52739079
because wizards are nerds that can't pick up heavy stuff

>>52739079
because magic is an alternate way of looking at problems. Why pick locks when you can just kick doors down?

>>52732569
No that's Post-Crisis Superboy. Superboy prime is explicitly the Superboy from golden age/silver age comics making him immune to kryptonite and able to do nonsense things that happened in those comics

>>52732459

long story short, compared to the power levels that exist in his universe, Superman isn't overpowered at all.

>>52739246
>Why pick locks when you can just kick doors down?

why specialize in lockpicking or breaking down doors when magic lets you do both?

>>52739500
because whenever you unlock a door using magic, it summons demons. sometimes thats bad

>>52724654
Judging by how Disney is finding new ways to fuck things up harder, it's not.

>>52723827
>he didn't believe
That is why you fail.

>>52732237
Reminder that "Gray Jedi" are canon and Bendu, The One In The Middle is the strongest canonical force wielder the current canon has.

>>52739615
Nothing they've done is remotely as retarded as the Vong.

>>52739691
Nope.

Gray Jedi aren't canon. Palpatine still is far and away stronger than anything that Bendu has shown, if you would actually bother to read Lords of the Sith.

>>52739766
Gray force wielders are canon. And Emps dies to getting gently tossed off a cliff.

Bendu laughs off AT-AT fire and becomes one with the force on the same level as Obi-Wan and Yoda.

Bendu, along with The Father have been shown to be above both Jedi and Sith while taking the "Gray" route of the force. This is canon and anyone who disagrees doesn't understand the whole point of balance in the force.

>>52739894
The only thing that Bendu has done that is anywhere close to on par to with other known canon Force users is that storm thing in the finale.

As for "gray"? He's not. His idea of being in the middle is being apathetic until he's forced not to be.

>>52732237
Or the man I hate is so bad he will make all the maniacs throughout the history look like lambs. It doesn't make me a good man but it does justify the use of lightning.

>>52739957
>apathetic until he's forced not to be.

Yes, and? That's the whole point of neutrality. This is why the Sith and Jedi fail in every endeavor, they are using the force to conform things to their ideals instead of just letting the force "be."

>>52740080
That has nothing to do with why the Jedi and Sith failed. It just means he's a lazy fuck who gets involved when it suits him.

>>52739079
Magic isn't about solving a problem better than mundane means, it's about cheating alternate solutions more suited to your abilities into being.

Rather than be good at the original game, you just change the rules.

>>52724574
TIEmy Whimy.

>>52740130
The point of the force is that you never *need* to get involved. The force knows what its doing. Jedi and Sith constantly throw off the balance fighting for their ideals instead of just chilling and actually trusting in the force. This is told time and time again and yet people don't seem to get it. Probably because the writers keep changing, but still. This is the direction Disney is taking canon. "Do the right thing and it works out in the end."

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>>52723827
>Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

>>52740163

>you just change the rules.
>not realizing that changing the rules just for yourself is always better than any other alternative

There was reasons why ancient stories and myths are about more physical inclined heroes than all powerful wizards. They actually could change reality, that why the ones who possess magical abilities are sought of by those who don't, and in most narratives are treated as plot devices instead of full fledged characters.

That is why magic without complex rules and limitations makes for bad design and makes any player capable of magic immediately better than others.

>>52740192
Jedi have nothing to do with imbalance in the Force - or at least, they shouldn't even at their most problematic. The prequel era Jedi had a shitton of problems, but they STILL didn't upset the Force as much as the Sith did to the point where a prophesied hero was required to return things to how they should be.

And before you go
>muh misread prophecy means he was supposed to kill the Jedi too

No. We have Word of God that the destruction of the Sith, not the Jedi, was the focus of the prophecy.

Because the Sith were the fuckheads who imbalanced the Force in the first place, and it is THEIR power that was causing the Jedi to go blind.

>>52739394
Kryptonite and magic sources from his own universe have the same effect on him as they do with Superman. Thing is, in his universe, Krypton was completely obliterated. meaning no kryptonite and he's never in his own universe because that one got retconned out of existance.

As for him being overpowered, he's no more powerful than a normal Superman. He just happens to have an armor that stores yellow sunlight and gives him more of that than a Superman without it would have, meaning more power. Take him out of his armor and you get a regular Superman.

>>52740266
The Jedi where still blinded by their own goals and aspirations. This is shown when Yoda goes down to the force planet to finish his ghost training. He had to defeat his darkside aspect of himself, by not letting it control and tempt him, but also by accepting that it was apart of himself. This is very telling because his darkside took the form of pride, of being on the moral highground. Which is where the Jedi lose out as practioners of the force. Balance is the way of the force. Not Light vs Dark.

This is why the Jedi die out, and the few left all become hermits. They finally realise the power in time and patience and letting the force do its own work.

I entirely suspect to get a more clear message similar to this is the next movie. "The Last Jedi" indeed.

Why should it be all-powerful? Mind tricks, telekinesis, far-sensing and some combat precog are already good as is.

Anything more would make other PC classes irrelevant. Magic should give a small advantage, not make blasters obsolete.

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>>52739596
>because whenever you unlock a door using magic, it summons demons

>>52740403
So basically only when you accept not wrecking shit up is the best course of action you get the power to better wreck shit up?

>>52739079
Maybe you should play more JRPGs.

>>52740403

Balance is not equal parts light and dark. It is not walking the middle path.

The Dark Side is Not A Good Thing. You use it, and it messes with your head. It's addictive.

The Jedi had the right of it when they say don't use the dark side. It's going to end badly. And every single person who has turned to the dark side has done some terrible things or end with a terrible fate.

It's worth noting that the Prophecy was about the destruction of the Sith, not the Sith and the Jedi, and not the dark side as a whole.

The dark side is natural, but its overall influence is minor. Even the biggest dark side cults outside the Sith basically might have control over maybe a single system.

But what the Sith did, (even if we don't know how) altered the balance to the point where it was actively blinding the Jedi, blunting their ability to even use the Force.

The prequel era Jedi absolutely had a problem with pride and hypocrisy, but by no means was it something that required them to be the focus of a near-genocidal elimination.

By the way, the Prophecy? Again, we have via Word of God (George first mentioned it in the RotS extras, and JJ and Kathleen Kennedy reiterated it the summer before TFA was released) that the prophecy was fulfilled at Endor, when Anakin Skywalker threw off the mantle of Darth Vader and caused the death of Palpatine.

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>>52724778
Kotor 2 with the restored co,tent mod that adds in actual relationships with your friends makes the great relationship stuff, with atton and visas actually becoming something other than cardboard characters,

Regardless of version kriea is just shit who decided in her sinility that she wanted to make her own suicide a homicide.

In other news, who else thinks the tirered stacks look on SSDs looks kinda dumb? The pointy shape is nice, but the stacks look kinda fat and bloated in my opinion. The avenger class or whatever sorta ruined the look for me...

>>52740526
Pretty much. Blame taoist/karmic/buddhist influences on Lucas.

>>52740602
The Light side is just as "destructive" and seductive. It is just imposing your ideals on other people and destroys the balance it lays with the darkside.

And George as "Word of God?" Laughable. He's slightly more credible than any Star Wars dweeb after selling out. If you want control over your vision, dont sell out your life's work to mega corporations. Creators have no control over how the message of their work is percieved anyway. They're usually the last ones you want to ask, because they are so lacking in an outside looking in perspective on their own work.

>>52740163

magic also allows you to do impossible things like turn invisible and throw fireballs

>>52740837
>The Light side is just as "destructive" and seductive

Destructive maybe, but only in specific circumstances. Seductive? Not at all. There's only been like two characters in all of Star Wars official media who felt a "call" to the light, yet the dark side is all about that temptation of power in the here and now.

The George quotes are from before he sold out. And yes, he is credible - he's the one who came up with it and let others play in his playground - but ultimately, he was the authority on the Force and what it means.

I agree that insiders shouldn't be telling people how to interpret their works - but George isn't doing that. He's stating a fact about a written-down prophecy in-universe and how that prophecy is fulfilled.

>>52740916
You don't need to be called to the light for it to be seductive. It's seductive because it's percieved as the right thing to do, but it often isn't. Palpatine corrupted the whole of the Jedi by trapping them in a catch-22. Go to war and save innocents against the darkside, or remain neutral and do nothing to help. Since the Empeor goaded them into the war, he caught them up in the imbalance he caused, weakening their vision. The actual right thing to do was to just let the Emperor hang himself by letting the prophecy finish, but instead the Jedi went to war and died for it.

So in the end both fell to the prophetically brought balance, it ended the Sith and Jedi. Whether George agrees or not is irrelevant, because it's right there in the story that both sides fell to their own temptations.

>>52741078
>So in the end both fell to the prophetically brought balance, it ended the Sith and Jedi.
That not true and you know it.

>When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be
>I am a Jedi, like my father before me
It's right there in the story that at least 1 Jedi exists in a universe with no more Sith. That he now questions what balance actually means and realizes that there is so much more to it doesn't somehow validate a whiny madman slaughtering fucking *children* in some fucked-up cosmic act of 'balance'.

>>52740217
>yfw people don't get the point of "Judge me by my size do you?" & "No different. Only different in your mind"

>>52741392
>That not true and you know it.

Of course it's true. Both the Sith and Jedi were wiped out. We have one "Jedi" who really has no connection to the Jedi of the past other than some light couching from Obi-Wan, who basically told him to kill his father which is wholly un-Jedi like, and from Yoda, who at that point was breaking away from the Jedi order way of things and evolving into hermit mode beliefs.

We'll see if Luke is the last Jedi or not in the next movie, and if Snoke actually considers himself a Sith or not. Until then we're all just guessing on the phrophey's lasting effects.

>>52741751
We already know that Snoke is not a Sith. The Knights of Ren are not Sith either, nor are the Acolytes of the Beyond from the new books.

They are all dark side traditions, but the Sith have their own knowledge, rituals, techniques, and traditions that set them apart from other dark side groups.

>>52723827
Check out something else than the god damn movies, you fucking normie.

>>52741775
You say that now, but I wouldn't be surprised if they sprung a "Surprise! We were totally Sith the whole time!" moment in the future. With the way TFA was just a carbon copy of A New Hope, I can totally see JJ complaining that they can't just waste the Sith as characters.

>>52741775
This sounds dangerously like semantics, but I guess not every dude that uses Force powers, a red lightsaber, wears black and is evil is a Sith.

What would happen if you took a Khyber crystal the size of a planet and condensed into a singularity the size of a marble and then let it power a light saber?

How strong would it be?

>>52740403
>balance is the way of the Force
Go to bed, Revan. The Force was claimed to be put into balance once all the Sith were dead, not when there was an equal number of darksiders and lightsiders.

>>52741830
Until then, what we clearly know is that the Sith are gone and the Jedi still exist, if only through Luke. He is the 'last Jedi', and obviously the Jedi must still be a thing for there to even be a last and for Luke to now come to the conclusion that they must now come to an end.

>>52741775
>Acolytes of the Beyond
>Worship Sith Lords
>Follow Sith teachings
>Jack off over Red Lightsabers
>Not Sith.

If it walks like a duck...

>>52741869
I don't think thats how mass works, Anon. Whatever you do, don't point your light saber downwards when its on.

>>52741830
JJ was one of the ones who openly stated that there are no more Sith. He's also still an executive producer for TLJ and Ep IX.

>>52741846
To an extent it is semantics, but they've been adamant that the Sith are gone. The Knights of Ren are nothing compared to the Sith of old - Kylo is their leader and he's still pretty shit-tier for a dark side user outside of that one stopping blaster bolts thing he did.

>>52741869
You wouldn't be able to lift something that dense.

>>52741913
The acolytes don't follow Sith teachings, and the Sith don't worship their predecessors. The acolytes are at best more like a continuation of the Inquisition.

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>>52741897

>>52741934
>Inquisition
>Not Sith.

I guess Padawans aren't apart of the Jedi then?

>>52741937
He's right, you know.

Not that there was ever an equal number of light and dark besides just looking at the movies, considering how many Jedi were known to survive and how many other "light side" traditions hadn't been purged.

>>52741959
What do Sith call their apprentices?

>>52741959
The Inquisitors AREN'T Sith.

They don't get any of the real knowledge that the Sith Apprentice gets fed. They're literally just dark side stooges, mine canaries for when the actual Sith need to step in and get shit done because their lackeys aren't powerful enough.

>>52741974
"My favorite until a new shinier apprentice comes along." Which leads to

>>52741979
Inquisitors are just backup interns until they replace a new apprentice.

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>>52741913
>Be a dude in mid 20s unsatisfied with life
>Worship my Duck Ancestors
>Follow Duck Teachings
>Jack off over my duck costume
>Thanks to modern culture, people accept the fact I am a duck

What a time to be alive.

>>52741979
I always found it funny that other than lightning, the Sith don't really have many techniques. I mean, the Emperor had to rip off a lot of his mysticism techniques from Mother Talzin.

>>52741959
It's a fucking religion with its very own set of rites, rituals, beliefs and teachings. Being a Sith is more than just waving a red light-saber around while choking a few people. That's never been how it worked. Worshiping Sith Lords doesn't make you a Sith any more than worshiping the Force makes you Jedi.

Following Sith teachings is a better leg to stand on, but if Luke starts following the teachings of the first Force-Sensitives like it's been hinted, will that make him one of them as well, or something new that borrows from the old?

>>52742020
>Neopagans.jpg

>>52742054
It's odd that we don't really see too much of the esoteric stuff.

Arguably, Palpatine learned some tricks (and maybe even the lightning, we don't really know) from Mother Talzin, since we know they spent some time together in the past before he stole a young Maul from her. She's also been shown using lightning, so there's some kind of link.

The only real Sith secret technique we saw was what Palpatine and Dooku were doing to mess with Yoda in that last arc, and we only know that because, and I regret that this is a thing because it's so... dumb, but the Balc speech he uses in that ritual (and yes, that's supposed to be "totally not the Black Speech") is one of the ancient Sith things.

>>52742088

>>52742092

How dare you question my beliefs? I'm as true a Sith as anyone. Lord Vader will smite you for your insolence!

Now excuse me while I celebrate force easter with my family.

>>52742125
>Maul
For a throwaway character the fandom sure sucked his dick.

>>52741775
>>52741830
If the new movies go back to just making it yet another set of endless Jedi vs. Sith conflicts and prove Kreia right I'm going to be severely annoyed.

>>52725269
>Don't know if the fault is with the viewers, the creators, Lucas or all of them. 'If you love someone, let them go' can't be that hard to wrap one's head around.

Maybe it's just that the story is so relatable - it's easy enough to say "let them go" but harder to do - to enough people that we like to hear the same story retold and find solace and entertainment in those retellings.

>>52742180
The perfect example of "better left to the imagination." Being such a blank slate, people projected all sorts of personalities and stories he could have, that he formed his own legend. Just like Bobba Fett.

All and all though, I'm happy with Maul's arc. Wish they could've stretched his and Obi-Wan's finale another episode, but they got cockblocked by the studio heads.

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>>52723827
>How come the force is so underpowered?
Take the greatest Jedi Knight, strip away the Force, and what remains? They rely on it. Depend on it, more than they know. Watch as one tries to hold a blaster, as they try to hold a lightsaber, and you will see nothing more than a woman – or a man. A child.

>>52739079
why have anything you moron?
A setting can contain countless things that are without utility. It is a shitty setting that holds only things that exist explicitly for the things living in it.

Why have malaria? Things exist, and some of those things are exploitable. In a universe with "magic", this can be any number of things, but magic in a setting shouldn't "exist" solely to be useful, but instead as a product of the world itself that it's occupants are able to exploit.

>>52742762
>what remains?
A highly trained highly disciplined individual? I don't think they're so high up on their ivory towers to not remember they're still ultimately people.

So what are some ways to make armies capable of waging war.

You got Droids, Clones... but for everyone else it takes presumably 18 human years to make someone, train them, equip them, and so on.

Would they rely on making each of their soldiers superhuman in some way?

>>52744544
Augmentation is... not exactly frowned upon, but it's not something that's heavily researched, either. It's also not exactly cheap - there's a reason that Death Troopers (cyborg troopers wearing black armor seen in Rogue One) are rare.

>>52741960
But if you measure it by how many had to die, light side is losing out hard.

>>52739596
If magic summons demons whenever it's used then how the fuck does a) anyone learn magic and b) the world not just end from all the demons flooding in from untrained mages?

>>52743210
That's the point Kreia is making.

Those who become too reliant on the force to guide them end up as lesser when it's taken away - Dr. Strange and his steady hands, for example. When he's deprived of the one thing that he relied upon most, all of his intelligence and skills were for naught, simply because he hadn't learned to use them for anything else.

Kreia was pointing out that a jedi who was deprived of the thing that they use in order to succeed in almost every situation would be far weaker than one who was able to function without it.

>>52744975
Sure, but do muggles go around practicing being blind and living their life that way in preparation of maybe someday they'll actually go blind? Does everyone need to practice holding their breaths for the maximum period of time possible on the chance that we might not be able to always rely on our normal breathing? What about those with degenerative brain diseases who see themselves losing the very thing that defines them in every way or those that have their bodies betray them?

The mistake I see here is the notion that the Force is only some kind of x-men power-set that is wholly separate from you. It isn't and Yoda make this very clear

>Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.
>You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes.

This is the kind of thinking that turned the Force into a meaningless power-dispenser with an added morality meter. The Force is so much more and is in no way separate from the Jedi or anyone else for that matter.

>>52723827
It depends on whether you want to change the essence of a thing or the form of a thing. To me, they are reflections of each other, both necessary yet diametrically opposed.

>>52745607
to be honest, the video game the "Old Republic" did have some traditional moral questions, its just that the second one got a little too dark.

>>52745699
I guess its the idea that magic doesn't make you holy. The devil can conjure up a sack of gold as easily as god can heal a leper. (metaphorically speaking)

Can someone explain to me the timeline of the Republic -> Empire -> New Republic -> New Order because all of this shit seems to be happening in the space of like, 40 years and a lot of shit just doesn't add up in that case.

>>52743210

this is actually not what happened int he game. When Kreia stripped the Jedi Masters of their powers, they all died.

>>52745795
the Phantom Menace was about 30 years before a New Hope, and The Force Awakens is probably around 40 years after.

Grey jedi are, politically, a valid and even y concept, an alternative to the odd combination of authoritarian noninterventionism that is the Jedi Council, that isn't turning into a full edgelord.

Grey Jedi are, in light side dark side stakes, a demonstration of the near-total illiteracy most Star Wars authors have in the content and thematics of the setting they are using, and the total apathy to content many fans of the series are willing to sustain if it ticks the right 14-year-old box for them.

>>52739985
>it's ok if I wield this highly corrupting use of the force in a explicitly dark side mentality juuuuust this once
No!
That's still the Dark side.
Did you people go out back and take a piss when Yoda was talking?

>>52739985
That's seeing the force as a mere weapon, but the way you use the force is directly linked to who you are. This is not an issue of using an arguably atrocious weapon to do something important like "I would use the nuclear bomb to stop Hitler", using force lightning intrinsically mean you are a bad person. You couldn't use it otherwise.

>>52744799
That's my next setting now.

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>>52740403
> moral highground

>>52740258
If it's not actually easier, just more suited to your needs, then all you've done is give yourself extra work converting it to something you can handle.

You wave your arms and chant very exacting phrases for about for 10 seconds in the middle of a combat scenario, you shoot an orb of acid.
The Fighter just swings his sword. Way easier. About as effective. But requires being a big fightin man, which the Wizard is not.

>>52744799
warhammer fantasy

>>52723827
Force users can see the future. Never mind blowing up planets when you can choose the path that means you eventually win.

>>52723827
>in other settings, wizards have spells that can destroy kingdoms.
Those settings are shit.

>>52739079
I like settings where magic isn't better, just different. So magic can do things that no person can accomplish, no matter how skilled... but there are also many things it can't do, and many things it doesn't do as well. Of course, if you picked it up for the "things nothing else can do," you might as well learn the "things it does worse."

>>52723827
>I'm 12 and I think the quality of the setting is determined by how super saiyan people go in it.

Just go back to whatever it was that made you this retarded and don't inflict yourself on people who are into other things than you, please.

>>52745795
Let's say TPM is year 0.

AotC is year 10

RotS is year 13

ANH is year 32

ESB is year 35

RotJ is year 36

TFA and TLJ are year 66.

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>>52723827
>every setting must have an insane powercreep

>>52739079
>Guaranteed replies

>>52749995
The Star Wars universe's canon calendar is based around the Battle of Yavin (the final battle of Episode IV). Everything is either BBY (Before the Battle of Yavin) or ABY (After the Battle of Yavin).

>>52724732
>antagonists that were dangerous in ways other than force power levels, such as Thrawn.
>Thrawn

FEAR MY ART HISTORY DEGREE!

>>52752713
Not really, no. Its only ever revolved around that since ANH and the Battle of Yavin was the first film.

Its by no means the be-all-end-all absolute must use calendar.

>>52744799
Literally Warhammer and 40k

>>52724167
My man

>>52749995
>only a 32 year gap
>somehow everyone thinks the force is some magic voodoo bullshit no one knows exists
>the Republic was virtually ruled by a council of voodoo wizards

this doesn't make any fucking sense shit doesn't pass into myth after 1 generation

>>52759849
You act like people believed wholeheartedly that Jedi existed and were powerful in the republic, they did not, and before the clone wars and especially during a lot of propaganda downplayed Jedi usefulness sometimes to the extreme of disregarding it entirely, remember that even during the clone wars the Jedi Order only had about 10,000 members and thats among literally trillions of people? myth status outside of coruscant and maybe a few worlds closely tied to the jedi, very easy to achieve.

>>52759849
The galaxy's a big place and communication wasn't really that universal even when the republic was at its height, especially isolated worlds in the outer rim and poorer parts of the mid rim that were seldom visited by traders.

Of course people in Coruscant knew a thing or two about Jedi, but the vast majority of people would go their entire life without seeing one, they heard of them but never saw them, it's easy in those conditions to start claiming that they're just a myth, rumors made up by a corrupt and dying republic. . It was common for there to be only one 'full time' Jedi assigned to an entire sector, larger planets got maybe one or two on them for long assignments.

The Empire actually improved the condition of the outer rim compared to what it was like during the old republic, improving the economy, reducing the sway of the crime lords who ruled most of the rim in the last days of the republic. Most of the strongest opposition to the Empire came from mid rim and core worlds. The outer rim planets that actively fought the empire were the exception, not the rule.

>>52759849
As already mentioned, the Jedi were a statistically insignificant minority - while people would have heard about them, the number that would have seen them in person was pretty much negligible, and the number of people that would have seen them use their abilities in person even more so.

Consider this - in both canon and Legends, at the time of TPM the Jedi numbered around ten thousand.

Coruscant alone numbered over a trillion - four trillion at any given time, to be exact, if using Legends sources.

So even on Coruscant alone, the Jedi are like... 0.00000001% of the population. And then you take into account all the other planets, they're more like 0.00000000001% of the population.

The Force is essentially irrelevant to the daily lives of most people. Maybe they've heard of it at some point as something some odd religion or cult worships. Maybe they even know about the Jedi's existence, but since they've never seen a Jedi in person, they have no reason to believe that they have any special powers.

And then on top of that, we get to Palpatine's machinations.

Legends had his approval rating literally through the roof - upwards of 95% approval even at the worst fighting of the Clone Wars.

Then you have protesters outside the Jedi Temple, claiming that the Jedi are prolonging the war in order to better themselves and/or drain the Republic, among other reasons. So the Jedi are already unpopular to begin with, and Palpatine is super popular.

And then the kicker - Palpatine lets it be known that the Jedi attempted a coup, suddenly the Jedi are persona non grata at best, public enemy number one at worst. How dare this cult take advantage of the war and attempt to kill our beloved chancellor!

And then, after the Jedi have been massacred, Palpatine initiates a propaganda campaign ensuring that their destruction would only ever be considered a good thing.