/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>52705513
>Which splat (or tribe, bloodline,clan etc...) has the hardest life?
Didn't they make an entire line with that premise? Its obviously Prometheans.

>>52705513
>Which splat (or tribe, bloodline,clan etc...) has the hardest life?

Prometheans. Isn't that the entire point?

>>52705513
>Which splat
Prometheans, probably.

>tribe
Bone Gnawers.

>bloodline
Nagaraja, or if you include clans, probably Nosferatu. Or Ravnos.

>>52705513
>Which splat (or tribe, bloodline,clan etc...) has the hardest life?
Beast, because nobody wants to buy that shit. :^)

>>52705513
>Which splat (or tribe, bloodline,clan etc...) has the hardest life?

Who cares as long as so long as mages live the good life

>Mage Privilege

>>52705513
>Which splat (or tribe, bloodline,clan etc...) has the hardest life?

Changelings from lost, they got to be written by David Hill. Worse faith than just cancelling the whole line honestly.

Also Children of Gaia, their worst enemy is a group of murderous inbreed, rapist, bigoted, meat head, retrograde idiots whom they gotta organize to fight the Black Spiral Dancers.

>>52705663
>Also Children of Gaia, their worst enemy is a group of murderous inbreed, rapist, bigoted, meat head, retrograde idiots whom they gotta organize to fight the Black Spiral Dancers.
It's funny, because I like Apocalypse and fully support the Garou Nation, yet I can't actually disagree with this. But at least not everyone uses Animal Attraction.

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>>52705663
>Also Children of Gaia, their worst enemy is a group of murderous inbreed, rapist, bigoted, meat head, retrograde idiots whom they gotta organize to fight the Black Spiral Dancers.
Changelings from lost, they got to be written by David Hill. Worse faith than just cancelling the whole line honestly.
lol
>Changelings from lost, they got to be written by David Hill. Worse faith than just cancelling the whole line honestly.
What I read of the mechanics I like, but his views on the 1e game of Beautiful Madness make me very weary the fluff around it will be much worse.

>>52705513
Hunters. Like by a good bit.
I mean sure it sucks ass to be a promethian, but you have hope. It's a long shot but you can actually succeed at becoming human. Hunters don't have that. There have always been monsters in the dark for as long as humanity has been around, and there always will be. You might stop a couple of individual ones, but nothing will ever change. Sooner or later you miss a beat on a hunt and then that's it.

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>>52705513
>the hardest life?
Mortals, perhaps?

>>52705980
Not to mention the fact that you don't even get to kill a real monster. Only a shitty watered down version.

>>52705980
I admit that if I was a hunter, I'd slide into "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" territory pretty quickly. That is, if I persisted in the delusion that mortals are the underdogs in this scenario.

http://www.strawpoll.me/12735417

any tips for software to help a ST create and track super complicated social webs and convoluted plots?

>>52706301
I use FreeMind for my notes. It's solid after getting used to

>>52706068
I've run hunter games with monsters made from the relevant splat books before and it went well enough. Mostly because its usually something like 1 vs 4 or 5, and it doesn't always end in a straight up fight anyways. That and monsters made with hunter rules can actually be crazy strong in their own right.
>>52706087
Hell even then thats assuming thats an option. CofD is dark enough it can often be that they just dont give a shit and dont want to be with humans anyways.

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>>52706208
Delete this!

Delete this now!

>>52705663
>Also Children of Gaia, their worst enemy is a group of murderous inbreed, rapist, bigoted, meat head, retrograde idiots whom they gotta organize to fight the Black Spiral Dancers.

The Black Furries aren't that bad, anon.

>>52706807
You can't fight consensus anon

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>>52705513
>Which splat (or tribe, bloodline,clan etc...) has the hardest life?
If the afterlife counts, Wraiths.

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>>52706807
BBW (big beautiful wolf) looking to have some knotty (naughty) fun with mages. :^)

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>>52706060
I've never played Imbued but they don't seem very good.

>>52707012
>The Black Furries aren't that bad, anon.

You right i forgot to add sexist. I know not all black furies are man hater.....but also not all silver fangs are elitis imbreed mad rules. And not all fiannas are.....no wait all fiannas are mentally challenged.

>>52707115
How can vampcucks even compete?

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What's the best clan, and why is it Tremere?

And what motivated the cruelty inherent in not including them in Requiem?

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>>52708125
>tremere
>anything other than garbage

>>52708125
Best Clan, worst House.

>>52708191
Personally, I think that every other WoD game is better without mages in the setting, so I prefer to see the Tremere as being completely right about magic fading into nonexistence.

>>52708226
t. vampfag

>>52708226
I mean, they were right, Magic is slightly less potent in the modern era due to the Technocracy's Time Table. Immortality is pretty hard these days if you want to stay on earth.

>>52708097
You're stating something that we all already know of.
The fact remains that her purview doesn't hold a flame to the Arcana. Archmasters work harder than actual gods to accomplish what they can muster, but they ~can~ pull off more impressive results than the gods.

So yes, an Archmaster could potentially destroy a rank 8-9 god 1v1 such as Luna, but will he/she do it? Probably not, as it's going to invoke a very bad Pax violation and waste a lot of effort that could be spent elsewhere.
No one is arguing that gods aren't powerful, just that Imperial wizards have the potential to be above them. It's not that outrageous of a concept when you take Atlantis into account.

>>52708105
I suggest you re-read Imperial Mysteries pg 32

>>52708125
As a proud mage supremacist, I have to agree. Anything remotely related to Mage should be considered best.

Try to disprove my assessment. You can't.

>>52708548
Okay, but you have to admit the fact that one of the most prominent houses of mages wanted nothing more than to become vampires.

>>52708548
The Consensus is clear: what you really want is the knot, so go get it.

>>52708571
Tremere was a massive dingbat, yes. Still, these vampires were once mages, at least the originals were.

That means they're better than any other vampire lineage. It's the truth. You can't go against this.

>Mage Supremacy
>Tremere Supremacy

>>52708500
An Alienated might have been responsible for the upbringing of the God-Machine.

I repeat, "might have been", but the sidebar still stands.
Archmages are not only god killers, but god makers as well.

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>>52708125
>yfw when Heinrich Himmler is cannon Tremere

>>52708737
That's like saying Gypsies is canon.

>>52708500
I don't really even see how it would play out. I mean what does two 'I can do anything relating to X' characters look like besides just pulling out nobilis or some shit

>>52708792
I think it would turn out exactly how 20th level wizard duels work in D&D.

Whoever makes the first strike wins. It's already like this when Masters are involved, anyway. Magic is too dangerous to guarantee epic battles.

>>52708849
>Whoever makes the first strike wins.
That's the point I've been trying to make. Luna makes the first strike because she doesn't *need* Quintessences to do it.

>>52708548
you can't disprove an opinion, retard

>>52708871
Eh, I would still give it to the Archmaster considering preparation is their forte, only on a cosmic scale.

Imperium is synonymous with black jack, after all. Only on an existential scale, obviously.

>>52708792
That's always been a problem. Ten dot whatever the fuck across all whitewolf games has just been plot device, so how the fuck that resolves is always up to the ST. Luckily it never really matters, because you don't exactly get things like two antideluvians punching out outside of pre ordained scenarios.

>>52708896
Nope. Mages are da best. Which means the Tremere are better than any other Clan.

You can't win this.

>>52708571
Tremere and his followers were a bunch of bumbling retards who tried and failed to gain vampiric immortality with none of the downsides. Their goal wasn't to actually become regular Kindred.

This has been explained several times already.

>>52708969
On that note, there seems to be no good reason why Awakening mages can't do that, if they can become ghosts/spirits/astral entities and retain magic.

>>52709040
The thing about mages in Awakening is that mortality is exactly one of the ten pillars of existence, Death being an Arcanum.

Trying to acquire immortality has a lot of background issues corresponding to the mages In-question trying to achieve it. Becoming an immortal usually involved fucking someone over in the process.

I much prefer this. It's harder to live forever in Awakening, but the drawbacks aren't as pronounced.
While in Ascension it's far FAR easier but harder to keep it up without Paradox sending you into the slammer.

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>>52708755
Whatchu mean Berlin By Night's not cannon?
Fight me

>>52708185
Aspel is a self admitted pedophile and when called on it, said something to the effect of "muh Rosa Parks". Self admitted in the sense of "I am sexually attracted to children and that's okay"

>>52708571
They tried to brew the last immortality potion that they'd ever need. It worked too well because they thought they could beat a curse from God. At no point did they decide to become vampires.

>>52708226
I think that every game is better without the others intruding.

>>52709312
>It worked too well because they thought they could beat a curse from God

If only one of them had Prime 6. None of them were archmages to begin with though.

>>52709281
Well, it is okay, provided you don't actually molest/rape anyone.

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Can the Kindred cook or make confectionaries using blood?

Or are they forever limited to the same boring old consistency?

>>52709383
I think they can, but would blood sherbet actually taste good? Kindred don't seem to like cold blood at all.

>>52709383
>Can the Kindred cook or make confectionaries using blood?

With vampires, it's not about the blood, rather it's the fresh vitae.

>>52709281

They don't even post here anymore so who cares

>>52709412
>>52709431

So vampires have no fucking class at all? Not impressed.

>>52709362

It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again.

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>>52709452
>vampires having class

Bitch please, mages are the ones with class!

>>52709485

>It rubs the lotion on its skin. It does this whenever it's told

>Put the fucking lotion in the basket!

>>52709495

Eeewwwwwwwww

>>52709495

Meh, that's just a changeling with delusions of grandeur.

>>52709639
It does look like an average Autumn courtier.

>>52705513
Wraith the Oblivion. I just happened to read the setting, and it's so fucking depressing that I want to cry
>To create items they literally "soulforge", by using other Wraiths and melting them into "things"
>Those items usually moan, and nobody knows if they are still intelligent or not after the process, because it's not reversible (The process itself is also really painful).
>Also, you can lost your sanity easily and become a mindless drone and basically become material for forging
>There is a player role that is basically made to screw you over, the Shadow.
>The Oblivion is a force that basically eats anything and is Entropy incarnated, and it grows larger the more Wraiths it eats, without ever stopping and nobody can do anything about it.
>The Shadow can also possess you forever, transforming you into a Spectre.
>You are dead, you cannot die again, but you cannot intefere into the physical world if not with your powers, you live in some kind of parallel version of the city were you existed before, and there are only some little ties saving you from the despair of being completely forgotted.
>Also, yes you are already dead, but Shadows can torture you with Harrowing if your "spirit" gets too beaten up.
>You have a chance of Trascending to the next stage and save yourself from all this, but is becoming harder ever second it passes.
>There are human mediums that also wants you dead.
>Demons can catch you to then put you inside a zombie body for control, or just questioning.
>The same for Mages.
>Vampires can also fuck with you

>>52709069

Or just buy the merit in chargen

>>52709697
Or that

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>>52708907
Archmasters are not much different than Masters at spontaneous casting.
>tfw people don't even read the best book in the line

>>52709790
Imperial spell factors are pretty brutal given you are at minimum a 12 dice pool and a few -2s will jack your spells to hell.

Hello, I have another question here for you, I read the core book and the Earthbound book and I didn't see any kind of code of ethics about "not revealing you are a fucking monster to humans" such as the Masquerade for vampires or the Veil for the Garou. Of course common sense seems the most logical answer to the lack of this, but as the whole of /tg/ knows some players may lack it.

So, maybe I'm wrong and there is some kind of Masquerade and I missed it? Or stupid player must wait until they have exorcist and Earthbound slaves to track them out before they'll learn their place?

>>52709790
>>52709806
Imperial spells can't be instantly cast, but the way they work makes it irrelevant.
The results are absolutely permanent (minus Dynamics) outside of other Imperial shenanigans.

>>52709867
OH hrm. Guess I remembered the chart wrong. Do archmasters have the same per roll casting for their Gnosis as non arch masters?

>>52709867
This is exactly why Transfiguration is the ultimate 'I win' button. You can't stay omnipotent over the specific Arcana, but the effects they produce are infinite and permanent.

>>52709848
The big reason is that revealing yourself to mortals too much can start screwing you out of supplies of Faith, but demonic society is loose and ad hoc enough that there aren't official rules about it, IIRC. At this point in the WoD cycle, the authors just assume the players know the drill, I think.

>>52709901
Assumption would be permanent omnipotence, and requires 10 dots.

It's more of a legend, but entirely probable. They don't give you rules for it, but they do explain that the specific Archmage casting it can literally force himself to Ascend.

>>52709848
Players aren't supposed to play Earthbound.

Earthbound are NPCs and are by definition insane. Also revelation can fuck up an Earthbound's Faith.

>>52709934
I was referring to basic Demons thou.

Also the Earthbound book gives you rules to create and play EB characters for campains of pure power conflict.

>>52708683
So mages can personally confront and beat up Luna AND create gods, like the God Machine?

Awakening is fucking gross.

>>52709934
>Earthbound Insane
>Players
yeah they're insane alright

>>52709978
No not really. Thats one of those things that was thrown in for the sake of being really cool that isn't word of law.

So which is better for running a mortals game thats lovecraftian in nature, abyssal entities or the god machine?

>>52709978
Only Archmages can triumph over actual deities, not normie Mages.

>>52710025
If we go by mechanics, Seekers can indeed slay the strongest gods we currently know of. The previous topic of turning Luna into a waifu using Spirit 9 and re-writing the Wyrd are both legitimate things an Archmage can accomplish.

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What's the minimum dots a Mind mage needs to turn you into a pedophile?

>>52710050
For fuck sakes. Yes, Archmages can utterly annihilate the other splats top tiers / gods etc, but it's going to get the Pax all over your ass.

Being stronger than gods doesn't mean much when you can't impose it.

>>52710077
A persistant mental condition so I'd say Mind ••••

>>52710025
Imperial Mysteries literally makes mention of wizards beating the Mother of Fire into submission, who is the same damn rank as Luna & Helios.
The God-Machine was also apparently constructed by an Archmage ally according to the book.

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Archmages might be responsible for the current World of Darkness.

We would never even know.

>>52710050
No I was talking about the making the god machine bit. But no,
>>52710117
You have mental problems if you think that was some absolute 100% metaplot statement, and that the entire demon line assumes the god machine was made by mages. Especially with how much onyx path avoids big metaplot stuff like its the fucking plague nowdays.

>>52710164
>Christianity was a mistake
>Archmages confirmed

>>52694764
"Don’t feel down, just be glad you aren’t them. Greed, envy and stupidity, yes, yes. The infantile gnits want to get on a program with a name. They think they are going to get up there and, comparatively speaking, they think they are going to be discovered as the real thing. They just don’t realize how bad they are; neither do the mothers, wives, and girlfriends who support them." Bukowski

>>52710164
>this is the creature responsible for promethean

sad

>>52710171
Eh, metaplot being metaplot. An Archmage creating the God-Machine wouldn't be that far fetched, not by any means.

Nothing is truly canon though, you're right on that.

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>>52710077
As a space mage, open up your yearbook and make everyone a pedo from the comfort of your living room.

>All in desperate shareblue ploy to get them to vote for the worst archmage of all time
.

>>52705513

Hunters, more specifically Waywards. They are demonized by their own for following the messengers intentions correctly. They live a sad bloody life never being able to shut off their second sight. Hermits take a close second.

So are Archmages aware when reality changes/another Archmage is trying to change reality?

>On the topic of super wizards and machine gods.

Whether or not the God-Machine was created by an Archmage(s), DaveB has mentioned here-and-there that the Exarchs are fundamental to its nature, function and existence thanks to just what Ascended beings are.

In my mind, the only entity that ~might~ be above Ascendants, Oracles and Exarchs would be the Principal. Even then I'm not so sure.

>>52707133
They aren't the strongest in a head to head fight, mostly because they are still mortals and can't soak, but they usually have the element of surprise and numbers on their side.

>>52710047
Anyone? I'm not concerned with aesthetics of the monsters so much as which one fits the bill of this unknowable force.

>>52710324
The Abyss feels more Lovecraftian to me, but mortals can rarely do much about it; the God-Machine is easier to use.

>>52710358
I was leaning that ways anyways, mostly because the storyteller stuff in god machine chronicles already gives me good material to work with. Now I just have to get the rest of the moving pieces into place.

I'm starting to think archmages of both oWoD and nWoD were made with the sole purpose of being better than everything, both playable templates and non-playable plot devices.

Stick to Hunter guys. Get some humility.

>>52710358
The way I look at it anything that invokes quiescence would be like a lovecraftian nightmare while it's occurring.

Does mage armor cause quiescence?

Today's WoD Editing Glory: "A good mentor questions she own biases towards she protege."

>>52710489
>playable templates
Archmages are the most powerful things playable both in both old and new settings. This is by design, but it was not done for the purpose of crossover.

>non-playable plot devices
It takes a while for Archmages to override actual damn gods, but they can indeed get that far.

So what's a good rule of thumb for creating a member of the gentry for use in a hunter game?

How powerful are the True Fae in comparison to Archmages?

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>this thread

>>52710647
About as strong as a 'low' to 'mid' level archmage.

>>52710647
According to Imperial Mysteries, the archmages are the lowest rank of the highest tier of all those beings. True Fae, uber-spirit-gods, etc., can all do what archmages do, but with far less effort.

>>52710704
Not sure if bait.

Or just stupid?

>>52710489
owod archmages weren't necessarily a power upgrade over regular mages. Many of the things they could do added essentially nothing of value in practical terms and were things lower level spheres could do just fine, sometimes in conjunction.

For example, there is very little that Matter 6+ does that Matter 5 does not.

>>52710726
Try reading Imperial Mysteries, my memester friend. It makes it clear that many other (nonplayable) creatures can do the same things as them but without having to go through the long protracted suffering of accumulating quintessences and experience points.

>>52710303
If they were in their Golden Road, they can probably figure it out. If they were not, the book specifically mentions they are affected like everyone else.

>>52710704
True Fae are rank 7 entities, I don't know how you're coming to such a conclusion.

There are Archmages in each rank depending on how powerful they are. Nine dots in an Arcana is enough to delete Luna.

>>52710770
See >>52708500

I'm convinced you're a griefer that hasn't actually read Imperial Mysteries to boot.

Has anyone here actually played a Mage game that got to Archmastery?

>>52709978
The reverse is much, much more likely. What Luna and Helios can do with a few rounds takes an Archmage massive preptime, permanent expenditure, and a unique quintessence.

Its only fitting that a mage can one day meddle in the affair of gods, and its only fitting that they must resort to extreme planning and effort to pull it off.

Archmages have the reverse of the relationship with gods as mages do with normal supernaturals.

>>52710770
Your assessment has already been answered, my good anon. Perhaps you should take a scroll upwards?

>>52710832
>Archmages have the reverse of the relationship with gods as mages do with normal supernaturals.
It really depends on the Archmages in-question, to be honest. A Seeker with nine dots of Spirit could enslave Luna and other such gods. Her/their purviews don't have the breadth of the Arcana.

High ranked beings are potent as hell, but a prepared Archmage is going to curbstomp them, depending on how powerful and obsessive.

Tangentilly related question, how many people use the same rules that are all grouped under 'spirit rules'? So far I count spirits, ghosts, angels, strix, abyssal entities, idgiam, and fay.

>>52710796

>I don't know how you're coming to such a conclusion.

I'm guessing the fact that they can pull off imperial effects without effort or sacrifice? What an archmage is probably going to have to devote a session or multiples to do, and not going to do lightly, the other beings in their category can do for free, every round.

>I'm convinced you're a griefer that hasn't actually read Imperial Mysteries to boot.

Truly bizarre projection.

I have to say that I really preferred the Requiem 1e corebook's aesthetics (dark gray background with red highlights) than everything that came afterward (red freakin' everywhere).

Ok, so an archmage has to prepare to beat up gods. That still annoys me.

I don't like the idea of playable chars being stronger than the creatures responsible for other gamelines like werewolves. Do vampires have a god? I'm speaking Requiem.

>>52710856
>Her/their purviews don't have the breadth of the Arcana.
To my knowledge her purviews, and exactly what literal omnipotence inside them, entails has never been detailed. She's still a plot device, and you could just say she shows up and insta murders anyone who tries.

>>52710856

>but a prepared Archmage is going to curbstomp them

Right, but the reverse is true as well, and it takes one turn instead of 1 or more sessions and a quintessence.

>>52710880
Vampires I'm almost positive are a special case. By that I mean elders/Caine got so fucking bad in owod that current writers are probably never going to touch high level vampire stuff or vampire origins any time in the near future simply based on reactionary.

>>52710861
>I'm guessing the fact that they can pull off imperial effects without effort or sacrifice

This is why people can't take you seriously. These gods don't have access to the Imperium, only abilities mimicking such. DaveB has been adamant on this.

More than that, he has actually mentioned that these aren't even their set-in-stone mechanics. If Forsaken gave rules to Luna, they would be -much- different. Similar to the True Fae in Equinox Roads.

They're there to give you a bone on how to use them in your Chronicle, and are not absolute.

>>52710880
>Do vampires have a god? I'm speaking Requiem.
Given how difficult it is to tamper with the vampiric condition, almost certainly. It's just that their identity is completely unknown. The Circle of the Crone, Lancea Sanctum and (to a lesser extent) Ordo Dracul all have ideas.

>>52710881
Her purviews have been given time and time again.

>>52710894
Gods don't need to prepare, they can do it right off the bat. They're still screwed against the Arcana, assuming preparations are in-order.

>>52710880
>>52710915
Imperial Mysteries makes mention of a Death Archmage being responsible for the birth of the Kindred.

>tfw no mage supremacty anymore

>>52710961
This thread has been the exact opposite.

Stop false flagging magefag, I'm fucking tired of this.

>>52710978
I guess you need to learn English and basic Reading skills.

Also, what Will you do if I don't stop? Turn me into a lawn chair? Pathetic.

>>52710935
Sure, but the practice of transfiguration is so vague even knowing what they are doesn't help. Like what is 'can accomplish anything related to the moon' supposed to look like?

This talk about gods vs wizards if fucking retarded.

Transfiguration 9 can create a permanent effect on yourself enabling you to command gods with your goddamn voice. You also need Gnosis to defend against it, something Luna wouldn't have.

Do magefags enjoy having mechanics capable of fucking over the splat sponsors? What do you have to gain from dominating the God-Machine?

What Arcana would you need to even control him?

>>52711055
I don't think the God Machine has a gender.

>>52711003
>still false flagging as magefaggot

You're everything that's terrible in life.

>>52711025
>implying that Luna would need fucking gnosis to defend
>implying that she will not just turn you you into a silver haired maiden before you even try to do something like that
>implying that mages will beat orbiting plot devices
>implying that it will be so suicidal that you are basically screwed over afterwards

>>52711025
Stamina + gnosis actually. And spirits can have traits far in excess of whats normally allowed.

>>52711024
It's exactly as it sounds. Luna is capable of slamming the moon into the Earth, for instance.

An Archmage could do that with Forces or Matter, or worse.

>>52711140
>Stamina + Gnosis
So she's basically fucked

How many dice should you throw at a roll - say, a spellcasting roll - for a reliable success? Four?

Whens changeling. I want a fairest gf.

>>52711192
>posting proof that luna can turn a Archmage in a loli that thinks to be the next reincarnation of Hitler, in a whim.

Thanks based anon

>>52709969
Earthbound book is for GM's mostly. It's an antagonist book

>>52711192
>>52711200
I now question if Luna can do all what the above anon(s) is suggesting.

The True Fae described in Equinox Roads are much weaker than what they're described in Imperial Mysteries, so I can only imagine the differences if Forsaken produced rules for spirit gods. Stronger? Weaker?

I think you're supposed to take it with a grain of salt. Luna can't actually do all that is suggested. Or maybe she can.

If I use a Life Patterning spell to temporarily transform a few of someone's cells into cancer cells and then wait a day for the cells to divide a bit and then have the spell finish or dispelled would the person still have cancer?

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>>52711192
>>52711200
>Luna's mechanics not actually canon

Amazing how magefags always win these threads. I'm going to shoot myself now.

>>52711230
Are the old previews about seemings and kiths still relevant at this point?

>>52711254
>books are canon when they favour my argument, otherwise they can be ignored!

Not believe the mage lies anon.

>>52711237
>not even close to proof

Are you that desperate to be right?

>>52709790
I was one of the people arguing and I've absolutely read the book. Hell, I've played in Archmasters games.

You don't spontaneously cast the Imperial Practices.

>>52711275
Why not using life 2 ruling to make a cell do what all cells can do, go cancerous, then let it spread on its own?

>>52711286
No, I mean. The True Fae have two different mechanics. One in Imperial Mysteries and another in Equinox Roads.

Based on DaveB's comment, Equinox Roads takes the cake. The mechanics n Imperial Mysteries are only there to give you a guideline.

>>52711319
>You don't spontaneously cast the Imperial Practices.

Not a single person here suggested that. We're discussing the effects that can be pulled off. If Transfiguration can conjure a god killing engine, no god is going to be safe.

>>52711324
That works at a lower level but the question still stands.

By Mage 2e rules the original cell would return to not being cancerous after the spell is over.

The question is what happens after the cell divides a bit.

>>52711295
Dave literally says that the powers are up to interpretation, the lack of a bound, a limit, makes the guideline for any power limitless as long as it respects the theme of that power, pretty much Like an arcana, but without any given limit. So if I say that she can do that thing and the theme is right, then she can do it and you have to deal with it.

>>52711350
>If Transfiguration can conjure a god killing engine, no god is going to be safe.
That's only because the Arcana are more broad and intense than the purviews of the Gods.
It's comparing quantity (deities) to quality (wizards) essentially speaking.

The thing people seem to love ignoring is that Archmages CAN surpass Gods, it's just not an easy thing and they need to work their way up the ladder.

>>52711360
I don't see anywhere in the above two pics that suggest any of what you just typed.

>>52711284
Anyone have any idea? The game looked pretty closed to finish last time I remember checking. Exactly how much retooling is going on?

>>52711360
>pretty much Like an arcana, but without any given limit

Transfiguration explicitly has no limit other than sensory range and duration. Why are you making up various non-facts?

>>52711355
Life 2 can cure cancer I'd let it cause it as well.

>>52711192
>>52711200
What would Luna's actual rules be then?

Do 6+ spirits / ghosts have bones to throw in Forsaken or Geist?

>>52711439
>if it has to do with X Y Z theme, then she can do it, doesn't it sound familiar?
>Death arcana if it has to do with Death, then you can do it, x dots gives you that amount of reign over that theme/aspect of things.
Basically they are the same, but lacking the regulation of arcana, while having the same potential.

>>52711529
Of course as Death we can apply any other arcana as an example.
The only problem with Luna powers is that they may be more wildy categorized than arcana.

>>52711529
How are you THIS stupid?

The Purviews of the gods are specifically limited in what they can do.
That's the whole point of their existence and their Bans. The Arcana on the other hand can potentially do anything at high enough dots

I have to say, the last time I've seen 'which of these fictional characters would win in a fight' autism battles this bad was on /a/

>>52711594
They are Limited thematically, but their sheer power is just limited by the ST interpretation, and that's what Dave said. If I want Luna to make everyone in the universe crazy on a whims in my chronicle, she can. An Archmage can achieve the same result with way more effort, resources and time.

>>52710647
Most if them are physical gods ranging from generic reality warping to being anthropomorphic personifications of concepts. So pretty fucking powerful comparatively

>>52711606
COULD AN ARCHMASTER BEAT MADARA UCHIHA?

Are there any other rank 8 gods other than Luna, Helios and the Mother of Fire? Would the God-Machine be one?

Imperial Mysteries talks of these beings getting thrown down and beaten but doesn't actually name any of them.

>>52711645
> but their sheer power is just limited by the ST interpretation

Where did he say this? I'm not seeing it.

>>52711655
Of course not that would just be silly.

>>52711655
Since when were you under the impression that he wasn't an archmaster?

>>52711646
>If I want Luna to make everyone in the universe crazy on a whims in my chronicle, she can
Nope. Luna can mimic Transfiguration, which can only be used via sensory range. She can't target the universe, sorry.

>An Archmage can achieve the same result with way more effort, resources and time.
They can arguably do much more.

Such as creating a well of consciousness, slowly gravitating towards everyone on the planet. You now have control over more than just madness.

>>52711655
Who would win, caine or lucifer?
Could divis mal beat the god machine?
Would the unconquered sun be able to kill a greater titan?

>>52711660
Rank 8 entities would be cosmic scale entities. Stuff like gravity, time, galaxies, etc.

>>52711681
>They're intended to throw storytellers a bone in just how hard Dread Dormammu punches and are not binding

This is basically the translation to that.
>the books provides guidelines, but ST can decide everything, because they ARE NOT binding.

>>52711734
Ummm no. That's not what rank 8 is. By that logic, Helios should be stronger than Gaia and Luna should be weaker than she is.

No one has ever met a rank 9 entity, but Gaia would be one if she actually exists.

>>52711727
Oh hey this reminds me, has there been any progress at all on the trinity front? Thats probably the OP project I'm most interested in right now.

>>52711737
Wow.

You're interpreting so fucking hard there, it's amazing. That's not even close to what he meant.

>>52711718
>Luna theme is also madness
>Not having a given Limit if a ST she can do it, she can do it, by Dave word
>B-But anon she cannot!

>>52711737
Your bias is literally twisting your reading comprehension. It's fucking aggravating and riddled with hilarity all the same. You're going nowhere with your argument.

>>52711787
Transfiguration literally cannot go beyond Sensory Range. This is coming from a book Dave wrote.

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>people forget about this chart

Archmasters are still rolling dice. Luna is beyond dice.

Luna > Archmaster

>>52711811
>Your bias is literally twisting your reading comprehension
What you expect from magecucks?

>>52711806
If she can't roll dice, that just means she's fucked. How would she ever defend against Transfiguration?

kek

>>52710803
I sincerely doubt it as I'm pretty sure most gm's would just lose interest after the 5th time the players went i use time arcana 6 to age the bad guy to death

>>52711828
I was actually referring to the Lunafag, but your point still stands, among other splatfags.

>>52711765
Still nothing to my knowledge. When the kickstarter comes down will the talk be here or in it's own threads?

>>52711783
Tell me why it cannot be interpreted that way and yours is the correct vision of things. Or provide me proof that states otherwise, Like Dave that just answer to this Message and says that I am wrong. (that would be fun). But even if he did, never Heard of the concept of "Death of the author"? Authors have zero authority over their writings, and interpretation is only up to the reader.

>>52711831
:^) :^)

Amazing, despite the evidence proposed by the magefags, the various other anons refuse to concede.

Is it any wonder why Ascension / Awakening players loathe the rest?

Perhaps they have learned the perfect defense mechanism.
To just ignore evidence and act like evangelical Christians, surely their enemies will just get annoyed and leave.

>>52711869
You're trying way to hard. At this point I think you're just a tad bit butthurt that there are legitimate mechanics to kill gods such as Luna with ease.

You can blame Dave if you want, but that's how Imperial Mysteries went down. How do you think the Exarchs became what they are?

>>52711886
Im trying to figure out if your speaking from a pro mage or anti mage stand point.

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>>52711886

Grow up Chuunibyo

>>52711886
Why do you think Christianity still exists as it currently stands? They refuse evidence and keep going.

Atheists know they're right, yet they can't breech through to them. Not that I'm saying magefags are atheists.

>>52711606
Does anyone have the we're reaching autism levels that shouldn't even be possible picture?

magefags are atheists

every other splatfag is a religious dingleberry

>>52711907
Oh Oh Oh! I know to the answer to this

REEEEEEE Luna can't be beaten REEEEEEE

>>52711907
I'm still waiting for proof. What would stop Luna to make an offender archmaster completely crazy before he's able to do any kind of attack? I never Said that archfags cannot kill those spirits, but "easily" is discutible.

>>52711907
>a god that can do things that are not of the scale and comprehension of mere mortals
>gets killed by some homeless dude who happened to find a book hidden in a pocket of anti-reality.

Id probably be a tad butthurt too.

>>52711989
Lack of sympathetic casting?

>>52711989
>but "easily" is discutible.

The only hard part is actually reaching nine dots and acquiring the relevant Quintessence, which is as hard as the Seeking itself.
After that? You just need to cast the spell and imbue yourself with the power to dominate them.

>>52711929
I can smell your fedora from here, shit!

>>52710907

That doesn't remotely come close to suggesting they're weaker than what is listed, my dude.

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>>52712028
Arrggghhhh, ya' caught me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLfCnGVeL4

>>52712055
Read Equinox Roads. The above anon is not incorrect in his assessment.

>>52710935
>They're still screwed against the Arcana, assuming preparations are in-order.

The reverse is true as well, except that they don't need to prepare.

>>52712024
The comparison of mages with any Group of People that bases their belief upon proof is ridicolous, because upon providing a view different than their they are always the first ones to just come up to laugh of you with those posts that emanates superiority everywhere and lack actual proof to contrast Your argument. You need to gather quintessence and centuries worth of knowledge, and you expect that the god spirit would just stay there doing nothing.

Also, the conseguences of paradox would be disastrous, if using that power would basically screw you over would you consider given power to be actually usuable?

Alright I have a question
Can you picture literally any scenario in a realistic campaign where archmage vs luna would literally ever come up ever?

>>52712096
The big difference is that the Arcana are far more potent than any single purview of a god, especially when it comes to potential.

It's like putting a machine gun up against a rocket launcher.

>>52712140
Too bad that a gatling is faster, and easier to prepare than a rocket launcher, you may be dead even before you push its trigger. So... Good example anon

>>52712136
I think you're misinterpreting a few things there, anon.

>>52712138
If an Archmaster used Spirit 9 to turn Luna into his waifu, the Pax would roll all over him. So no, there would be no realistic situation of it ever happening.

This is what I don't get. Why does it matter if wizards can punch out gods when there's never going to be a time to do just that?

>>52712184
I don't even mean that. I mean could you ever see sitting down at a table to play with someone and them saying they want to make luna their waifu. What reason outside of memes would this ever come up?

>>52712180
Gods don't prepare, they just do. Archmasters are the ones preparing.

You're not going to 1v1 Luna or Helios without a Transfiguration effect up.

>>52712138
>Can you picture literally any scenario in a realistic campaign where archmage vs luna would literally ever come up ever?

Sure. There's a group where there's some people who like Werewolf but also play Mage who have a Magefag - who it should go without saying is a total That Guy - who uses Archamgery to fuck up Luna to figuratively shove his balls in the face of the people who like Werewolf.

Just like these threads. Magefags show up and shit them up so hard that arguing whether Hermione's a negress is preferable to Magefagginess As Usual.

>>52711886
This is honestly the one time I'm actually leaning towards the Mage side of the argument, and I'm an avid player of Forsaken and Curse.

There's actual mechanics for killing gods and actual lore supporting it. Imperial Mysteries is riddled with all of this. I'm not sure where these God Supremacists are coming from.

>>52712220
You realize this whole argument started become some asswipes denied published rules allowing wizards to kill gods, right?

The magefags aren't solely to blame for this shitstorm.

>>52712220
Except we both know thats horseshit. No serious ST is actually going to let that happen, let alone there are probably less than ten werewolf mage crossovers around as is.
I just don't see how people can actually spend a whole fucking thread fighting about this when it will literally never come up.

>>52712279
>I just don't see how people can actually spend a whole fucking thread fighting about this when it will literally never come up.
It will never come up, but it's entirely doable.

If things were a bit more mature, I would even say it's a great way to implement an Archmage supervillain for a Forsaken Chronicle.
Saving the god that cursed you from an insane sorcerer is very compelling.

>>52712279
>Except we both know thats horseshit.

Too many threads full of Magefags shitting things up for me to believe that.

>>52712274
>You realize this whole argument started become some asswipes denied published rules allowing wizards to kill gods, right?

Right. Magefaggotry came up because of one asswipe here and spread across multiple threads and forums, including the official OPP forums, and even got publishers to wank and wave mage dick around.

>>52712559
Are you saying it's not worth shitting up a dozen threads due to a couple anons making mistakes regarding Awakening / Ascension?

That's the only reason magefaggotry exists.

>>52712279
It's not about actually DOING it, it's about making sure that everyone else knows that they COULD. Because Magefags are exactly as arrogant, spiteful, and pedantic as the characters they're playing.

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>itt magefags talk about a level of power they will never realistically achieve because they're weak-willed betafags who'd get swallowed by the abyss and cry when the total sum of their paradox wrecks their shit

>>52712698
>look everyone! We can TOTALLY fuck up the laws of the universe, but by doing so I must live as an Apple pie for all eternity, but I can DEFINETELY do that if I wanted to.

It always amazes me how much salt the magefags can get out of the other fags.

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>>52712730
>implying they'd even discover what their quintessence is let alone make the effort to obtain it

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>>52712768
>implying they'd ever put in the effort and dedication to obtain mastery in their chosen arcana

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>>52712797
>implying they would have the mental fortitude to even sign their name at their watchtower

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>>52712730
>>52712768
werefags please no bully

>>52712698
>it's about making sure that everyone else knows that they COULD

Only happened due to certain anons above disliking the idea of wizards killing gods, when it's entirely valid within the bounds of the game and within the setting itself. Someone mentions Spirit 9 turning Luna into a divine sex slave and people go bat shit berserk over it.
Trying to deny the mechanics of Imperial Mysteries is like trying to convince yourself dick eggs never happened.

Luna is going to get steamrolled by a sufficiently obsessed Archmaster, there's nothing you can say to dispute this.
But dispute they did, and they ruined a thread because of it.

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>>52712810
>implying they were ever even a candidate for awakening

>>52712821
This sums up the argument pretty well. Can we move on please? I actually have a headache from this.

>>52712730
>>52712768
>>52712797
>>52712810
>>52712815
>>52712837
You're not helping either.

>>52712821
Again with this shit

Nobody Said that it wasn't possible, they just found highly stupid the fact that Luna would just stand there doing nothing when the mage is preparing instead of turning the mage into her own sex slave before.

>>52712821
>Someone mentions Spirit 9 turning Luna into a divine sex slave and people go bat shit berserk over it.
Spirit 9 no. We've already gone over this. Entities like Celestines wouldn't. Just read the fucking book. There's a page that explicitly lays out what can happen. Literally. Page 55. Start reading.
>Numina based on the Imperial Practices as instant actions.
Yeah good luck m8s. I'm sure you'll be fucking Luna in no time. :^)

>>52712845
>This sums up the argument pretty well
but it doesn't lol

Why are magefags assuming that not only would Luna not fight back, but that their blatant violation of the Pax wouldn't be bitchslapped by other Archmages if not Ascended Mages?

>>52712919
>Pax
Mentioned 3 times this thread.

>>52712857
Imperial magic isn't instant, it's ritual work. The respective Archmaster isn't going to run up to Luna and prance around for an hour while she looks on bemused over the situation.
The Archmaster is going to cast Transfiguration and imbue himself with relevant effects before confronting the deity.

>>52712881
Can you direct me to the page where it says Royal Spirits are utterly immune? I can't seem to find it, buddy.

>>52712919
The magefags already addressed this. The Pax would roll all over them. They merely wanted to prove their theorycrafting, which they did.

Pathfinder has worse balance and less shitposting
Kill yourself.

>>52712919
I imagine it's more about it being theoretically possible than something they would actually do.

>>52712945
These threads are full of bias. What did you expect?

>>52712938
>Can you direct me to the page where it says Royal Spirits are utterly immune
Why are you assuming it says that? Just read the damn book. It says it would be much wiser to go to them and ask politely.

Since your so good and inferring meaning and making assumptions I'm sure you can figure out what the "unwise" course of action would result in.

>>52712938
>use the word prepare
>he tells me about the ritual work to get into transfiguration anyway

I know it already buddy

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hey guys im about to play my first game of nWoD this week and we're going to be starting with Hunter the Vigil. Setting is going to be late 80s early 90s in the US. Any tips you could give me? everybody else in the game has played a bit of WoD before and i dont want to be a complete fucktard.

Only other roleplaying games ive done are 5e, apocalypse world, sw ffg, and savage world.

>>52712961
Just because it's unwise doesn't mean it's impossible.

>>52712961
I'm waiting for your citation. I have read Imperial Mysteries and played it out on few an occasion, and not once have I read what you are addressing.

>>52712962
I'm not sure what you're getting at then. Preparation is the entire point of Awakening, more so for Imperium. An Archmaster isn't going to smite Luna without preparing first.

>>52712983
Literally could be the tagline for Awakening.

>>52712975
Not much. What sort of character are you running? Unlike something like DnD combat isn't as central so you can play a character whos more focused on things like social stuff, even if you should have at least something to help you survive in combat. Any ideas whats in store?

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>>52712985
The only time you're getting spoonfed nigger

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>>52710321
Most Imbudes just don't seem worth the cap investment. I'd rather spend that pool on an ally desu

>>52713104
I don't see anything there declaring immunity.

>>52713104
>Archmages can summon the true entity to force an appearance, but it is wiser to go to their homes and ask politely.
Not him, but this is what you were talking about, right?

What does it prove? That summoning powerful entities isn't a great idea?

Transfiguration can
>Create a divine Harem of rank 8 gods, such as Luna, Helios & Gaia
>Re-write the Wyrd itself, twisting the Hedge and Arcadia to your whims and bending the Gentry to your will
>Completely redefine how the Underworld processes the dead and the damned
>Destroy the fucking planet

Get mad

Can you morons please stop antagonizing the magefags?

>>52713146
Nobody but you said anything about immunity you poorly assuming >implying retard. Why dont you go back and cite where that happened.

>>52713168
Are you really this autistic, and you can't imagine what "unwise" would be in this context?

>>52713312
That you would be pissing off a powerful entity while bringing it right to you?

What, do you think that "unwise" in this context means that the entity would bend you over and buttrape you into a cosmic explosion? Where are you getting that from?

>>52713298
You implied an Archmaster wouldn't be able to turn Luna into a ragdoll, when the opposite is true.

>>52713312
I'm curious to know just what is synonymous with your definition of "unwise", anon.

>>52713347
Because one wouldn't be able to unless she did absolutely nothing.

>>52713482
Again, it's about it being theoretically possible.

>>52713498
Well then it's theoretically possible to be a vampire-mage, a pregnant male werewolf, and a five-kith changeling. Who really fucking cares about theory when it amounts to nothing?

>>52713482
The same can be said of the reverse.

More importantly, how would she even know it's coming? Likewise, her purview doesn't have anything to do with protection.

>>52713529
>Well then it's theoretically possible to be a vampire-mage
It it though? In Awakening Mages can't be Embraced, and in Ascension their Avatars get destroyed or whatever.

I mean I guess you could count Tremere, but they don't do capital M Mage magic.

Oh and you're precisely right, theory crafting isn't a big deal, so calm your autism. It's just for shits and giggles.

>>52713482
>Because one wouldn't be able to unless she did absolutely nothing.
She wouldn't have any idea of the assault to begin with, as she isn't omniscient. Nor would she be able to fight the wizard off once he's enchanted himself via Transfiguration.

>>52713529
>Well then it's theoretically possible to be a vampire-mage, a pregnant male werewolf, and a five-kith changeling
Nope. Crossing the Templates is impossible. This is explicit. Only in oWoD will you find a select few exceptions.

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>>52713600
>blowing up the Moon Spirit is ezpz
>crossing templates is impossible
magefags everyone

>>52713623
How is it possible to cross the templates?

Genuinely curious.

>>52713623
>blowing up the Moon Spirit is ezpz
Only the most powerful of Archmasters can do it

>crossing templates is impossible
This is something that has been made clear for years by the actual Developers.

>>52713635
>How is it possible to cross the templates?
You would have to house-rule and make up your own headcanon to make it work.

Templates are essentially altered souls, and cannot be laced. Mages can't be Embraced and werewolves can't Awaken, etc.

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>>52713652
>an all powerful mage who is literally the arcana
>cant make a hybrid
ok m8

>>52713635
>>52713652
Never mind that even babby archmages can literally create werewolves and awaken mages, but noo, they can't cross them? But yeah they can totally ritual magic the Sun away L M A O

>>52713623
It would damn well be an easy matter if the Archmage has nine dots of Spirit.
He/she just has to acquire the necessary Quintessence and is good to go.

>>52713695
>a mage can gather some mystic hoodoo to kill the moon
>which is capable of casting imperial magic as an instant action through their numen
K

>>52713666
>>52713680
Well that's just silly, crossing Templates is entirely possible with Archmastery. Entities and Excisions are explicit when it comes to that.

I thought we were ignoring god talk?

>>52713706
Sorry that your beloved moon can get whooped so easily by a Gnosis 9 Archmage, anon.

>>52713652
>Templates are essentially altered souls
>souls
So could an Archmage of Death do it?

>>52713706
The effects that Transfiguration produces can damn well be spontaneous. You -need- nine dots to take on a rank 8 entity.

>>52713727
You need seven dots and the associated Arcana to meld the Templates. You also need to petition the sponsors for the specific splat.

Or you could cause shit and just do it.

>>52713726
Theoretically.

Theoretically I could hack your computer and make it explode, but.

>>52713764
You would hack a computer just to blow it up?

Virtual Adepts can be such dicks.

>>52713764
>Theoretically I could hack your computer and make it explode
How? What's the theory?

Becoming two templates is impossible. That's all that the books stated.

It doesn't say you can't mix them with archmagic. Or hell, literally make your own werewolf mage creation.

>>52713764
Eh, limited omnipotence over Spirits is hardly theoretical. It's nigh doom for any spirit god, Luna included.

>>52713796
>werewolf mage
>becomes an archmage
>fucks all mage boipucci simultaneously
This is why cross templates is a bad idea

>>52713806
Celestines/Royals can literally operate better than most Archmages, and it's "trivial"?

Yeah, I guess a fight between two archmages is just trivial.

>>52713829
What Royal Spirit has 'command over all things spirit' as a purview?

This is a comparison between quantity and quality.

>A whole thread of this
Alright yeah that's enough. See you guys in a week or so, here's hoping this place gets better.

>all this shit about mages saying they could theoretically take Luna
>when she doesnt fight back and nobody interferes and everything is perfect and ideal
Yeah man I too could kill people while they sleep with a gun too. Sooo easy amirite? You just wait for them to be asleep and get a gun!

>>52713829
Gods can throw more punches
Archmages can throw bigger punches

As >>52713867 said, it's quantity vs quality.

>>52712945
And give Magefags the satisfaction? I don't think so.

>>52714020
Spirit 9 Transfiguration is literally "do whatever the fuck you want relating to spirits"

This isn't a matter of being aware. Luna is finished regardless of whether or not she's asleep.
Any other Archmage is practically dead though.

>>52713903
It won't be. It might not be this specific topic, but it will be Magefags being Magefags about something. Every fucking thread is Magefags jacking themselves or whichever fucking Dave is responsible for Mage.

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WATCH OUT MAGEKEKS ITS THE MOON BITCH.

>>52714071
Yeah, we'll talk when you actually get the quintessence to do that limited thing for a small amount of time, somehow ignoring their defensive rolls that the book clearly states they get.

>>52714098
To be fair, this thread was derailed because of the bias against Mage mechanics.

>>52714119
>Yeah, we'll talk when you actually get the quintessence
But what if the respective Archmage already has it? Quintessence also isn't necessarily used up in the process and can be cast again.

>limited thing for a small amount of time
The effects Transfiguration produces can be of any duration desired. Enchanting your voice to obliterate any conceivable spirit is going to be Lasting in procedure.

>somehow ignoring their defensive rolls that the book clearly states they get.
Defense against Transfiguration requires Gnosis + Stamina, the former being something Luna does not have

>>52714109
STAND ASIDE MAGEKEKS, THE HUNTERS WILL FINISH THE JOB

>>52714165
Waywards are always right, thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

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A lot of butthurt over mages killing gods

>>52714165
magecucks magecu'cks magecncks mage cucks

DIRTY FUCK POOL. They're auto correcting cuck into kek

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>>52709383
>Can the Kindred cook or make confectionaries using blood?
>Or are they forever limited to the same boring old consistency?

It depends. Usually they're only limited to drinking boring-ass blood.

But, some of them have found ways around it. For example, using Setite Sorcery (also known as Akhu), the Followers of Set were able to make a special type of "blood-beer" called "Typhon's Brew", which is a level 1 ritual.

The Followers of Set use it mainly in two ways: first, the brewing process and ritual makes it so that when infusing the vitae into the beer, it essentially multiplies the vitae-laden properties, which means that for every point of vitae infused into it will make four points' worth of beer.

And the beer can be used to sustain ghouls (though not create Childer or Bloodbonds) without adverse effects (besides the usual possibility of addiction/alcoholism).

In other words, a single Setite could manage dozens of ghouls despite only offering up a few blood points every month.

Kindred themselves also value the beer because it's one of the few things they can actually drink without immediately heaving it back up, and they can get drunk on it to boot. The Setites usually use the beer to help lure in new Kindred converts, so that they can more easily tempt them into vice and corruption.

The Kiasyd, in the new V20 Lore of the Bloodlines, also use their own bodies as "mixing bowls". With their weird Fae-related body-alchemy, they can basically make different types of blood-cocktails that sometimes grant temporary Discipline-enhancing properties... though usually with a relevant flaw or drawback.

Like, drinking a cocktail made up of mostly werewolf blood could give them enhanced Protean powers for a night, but it'd heavily increase the likelihood of a frenzy, and that sort of stuff.

>>52714155
>Does know about Rank + Resistance
are you retarded? or just a magecuck?

>>52714155
Page 55 has been cited and posted numerous times. READ THE FUCKING BOOK YOU REDDIT NIGGER

>>52714155
Spirits roll Rank+resistance. So Luna rolls 8+a fucking lot. Not including any instant cast imperial numen (of which she has literally every one)

>>52714233
This again? You're trolling at this point. Nothing on that page is relevant.

>>52714204
>>52714260
It explicitly requires it to be Gnosis + Stamina. She would have ways to increase her Stamina, surely.

>Not including any instant cast imperial numen (of which she has literally every one)
False. Spirits can't use Supernal magic.

>>52714260
>>52714204

Using 2e mechanics, a Spirit 9 spell would be resisted with Withstand, and spirits Withstand with Rank alone. Luna's Withstand would be 8 As the base Potency of a Spirit 9 spell is 9, Luna is fucked (and that's without considering the Archmage rolling an Exceptional Success and eliminating any chance to Withstand with his enormous dice pool and many Yantras and bonuses).

>Mage 2 Rules Supremacy

>>52714312
I should have considered the current rules.

Yeah, Luna is screwed. We might as well stick to 1e for now I guess.

>>52714303
>It explicitly requires it to be Gnosis + Stamina.
Stamina is Resistance for Spirits, retard. Jesus fuck, read all the Spirit sections before you start talking about magic you dont understand. magecucks are retarded

>>52714312
>Mage 2 Rules
>Archmages
>will not be included in Signs of Sorcery or Tome of the Pentacle

Why has DaveB forsaken us?

Are we not worthy?

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>>52714326
Wasn't referring to that, was referring to the fact that she loses half of the relevant defense mechanism to even fight against Transfiguration.

She needs to improvise greatly in order to defend against it.

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>>52714312
Using 2e mechanics, you don't use Imperial Mysteries and Archmages are a vaguely-defined concept.

Checkmate, magetheists

>>52714370
The Imperial Practices are still canon in 2e, retard.

>>52714389
Not as written they aren't.

>>52709383

I'm pretty sure the Lancea Sanctum can infuse vitae into food (or any object) in a ritual. Though I guess they'd still vomit it up if they actually ate it, so I guess not in nWoD.

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>>52714397
Nope, almost entirely as written. The Imperial Practices are as is, only minor adjustments need tweaking.

>>52714389
And just in case you think I'm memeing, go reread p251-2 of 2e and point out to where they have access to the practices as outlined in 1e Imperial Mysteries.

They have already reworked key systems about how archmasters work in 2e and explicitly state the imperial practices as "unknown".

>>52714470

See >>52714455

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>>52714455
That's not as written. That's just a forum post. It is not an errata, and it is not a published text.

You need to brush up on what "canon" is.

>>52714476
see
>>52714482

DaveB and other authors forumwanking is just forumwanking and not approved material, else it'd be in an actual book itself.

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>>52714476
>>52714470
>>52714397
>>52714389

Mage 2e Core, pp. 251-252

-Archmages in 2e

>>52714482
Sorry, I'm going to take the words of the actual Developer over yours.

You're arguing against the 'Word of God' trope here. That's like trying to convince yourself George Lucas isn't the man behind Jar Jar Binks.

>>52714499
As a storyteller, you're more than welcome to borrow materials from the 1e books. Some of the prefaces even suggest that.

But your house rules are not what is applicable to the game at large. The book is clearly written. The book does not say "please reference all forum posts made by the author of this book for updates to the systems". The book does not have a published errata containing the Imperial Practices.

>>52714492
You're beyond hopeless. You're forcing yourself into delusions over disagreeable notions clashing with your own.

>>52714397
>Not as written they aren't.

Ignorance and denial are not attractive qualities.

>>52714509
That's not what I was getting at. Merely that the Imperial Practices are largely intact, if not the same in their results.

>>52714499
>>52714513
'Death of the Author' trope is a valid criticism of the 'Word of God' trope.


>>52714518
Read it right there >>52714493
Nowhere does it say what you think it does.

>>52714492
>resorting to author bashing

You really need to calm down

>>52714532
>'Death of the Author' trope is a valid criticism of the 'Word of God' trope.
More like it's a desperate attempt to deny shit you don't like.

>>52714538
That's not author bashing. Author bashing would be saying "DaveB is a shitty writer" which I didn't.

What I am saying, is that his unapproved forum posts are just that, his thoughts and opinions on something. Not published material. It's not even in a blogpost like many other "extra bits" that OPP publishes.

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I shall risk summoning the Reptile God for guidance.

DaveB... DaveB... DaveB...

We beseech you and seek your wisdom.

Are the Imperial Practices from Imperial Mysteries still canon in Mage 2e?

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>>52714555
>I don't like your interpretation
>so I'll deny shit that *I* don't like
Okay. You're done madboi.

>>52714570
Oh dear god please no.

DaveB would be so disappointed of this thread.

>>52714562
This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of implementation. DaveB knows full well what he intends to do with Imperial shenanigans, minus a few tidbits.

>>52714570
I doubt he's even awake.

>>52714610
Yeah, and we know how well that worked out for many other books in OPP's publishing catalogue.

As it stands, they AREN'T published, and trying to mix in 1e shit with your 2e systems to justify "lul i can kill teh moon!11" isn't holding any water whatsoever.

>>52714588
That .gif made me cringe so hard I cricked my neck.

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>>52714628