The DM's job is to kill the group. Prove me wrong.

>>52674496

DMing is not adverserial. Go play a dungeon crawler boardgame if you want to murder other players.

>>52674496
This is clearly bait but I'm bored so I'll bite.

If the DM's job is to kill the PCs, and the DM is in complete control over the game, then the DM has the ability to auto-win by just saying "rocks fall you die" as soon as the game starts.

If the DM is required to abide by some sort of fair play agreement, then where is this agreement? Is the DM allowed to homebrew monsters? If so, how tough can he make them? Is it suitably fair to put the group up against a level 1 Goblin with a million in each stat?

At the end of the day, constantly trying to kill the group is only going to make you run out of players (I suppose you could theoretically find some who like your particular style of constantly trying to kill their characters, but that would necessitate some sort of fair play rule that you abide by, even if it's not written down anywhere).

The DM's actual job is to help make sure everyone has fun, including themself. Incidentally, this is also the players' jobs as well. Typically that's going to take the form of sending challenges at the group that they can beat, or at least that they're able to run away from or avoid if it's unwinnable.

Different players look for different levels of challenge, and various other factors, but at the end of the day they all want a non-zero chance to win (or at least not die permanently) and most want a non-zero chance to lose. Exactly how high those numbers should be is a matter of opinion, and you should try to find a group who agree with you in that area.

>>52674733
>At the end of the day, constantly trying to kill the group is only going to make you run out of players
Had a friend who basically ran out of players doing this no matter where he went. He didn't start from day one trying to kill the players, but he was/is a control freak, and when the PCs started to hit levels where they had access to more powerful magic, he would start getting frustrated, and would put the party into an unwinnable situation and go for the TPK. If it looked like they were actually beating the odds and at least some of them might survive, he would blatantly stack the deck against them until they died. This usually happened around 9th or 10th level in D&D. Last I heard from him, he had run off another group and was complaining that he couldn't find anyone to game with. You might ask why anyone would put up with this bullshit at all. It's because when he actually gave a shit he ran a fairly fun, challenging and immersive campaign. So it was a shock to show up for a gaming session and have the evening end with an extended version of "Rocks fall, everyone dies."

I am a GM. That is not the job I take upon myself. So you are wrong. Simple as that.

>The DM's job is to kill the group.
You mean the players or the characters? How many groups do you go through in a year?

>>52674496
DM's job is to firmly establish narrative rules and punish players for breaking the agreement. Combat may be included into narrative rules but it rarely is. Killing characters is the simplest way to punish players but one of the least effective.

>>52675266

>punishing players

No. This is fucking stupid.

You are not their tutor, their leader or their boss. You're friends trying to have fun together. If there is a disagreement or an issue, talking about it and resolving it like reasonable adults is far better than passive aggressive 'punishments'.

>>52675285
Perhaps it is you who is fucking stupid.

Players help you establish narrative rules and you make sure the rules are followed. If there is no repercussions, there are no boundaries, no conflict, and no narrative. Your proverbial whip only serves their enjoyment.

Discussing such things OOC is possible, but breaks immersion in two. I'm not saying "drop some rocks on them". I'm saying that the rogue who steals in front of Paladin NPC loses their respect.

>>52675423

But that's not punishing the player. That's a logical, reasonable in universe response to the characters actions. It entirely exists in universe.

Something bad happening to a character is not the same thing as something bad happening to a player. Heck, in my experience dealing with adversity and sudden hardship is one of the most fun parts of RPGs, as long as the GM can pull it off in a way which is an interesting experience.

Either way, you're still not punishing your players. Providing reasonable consequences for in universe actions is all part of serving the fun of the group.

>>52675260
Wait people don't kill off the player when their character dies in the game? What? Is this a city folk thing?

>>52675423

It's not about 'punishment', it's about making realistic consequences unfold from player actions. You don't need to enact retribution on players. You just have credible, justifiable consequences happen to their characters. Characters only die if it makes sense, never to send a message to the player.

You sound like a control freak like in >>52675184 who thinks it's their place to regulate the behaviour of the players. It isn't. As the other anon said, you are not their tutor, their leader or their boss. Get over yourself and learn to play nicely with others, you pathetic little wannabe.

>>52675423
What you're describing is "challenging" the player, not "punishing" the player.

>>52674496
Is it a book's job to make you stop reading it?

>>52674496
>The DM's job is to kill the group. Prove me wrong.

Dickhead! If you kill the whole fucking group, who's going to help you bury their bodies? Fucking newb DMs....

>>52674496
>The DM's job is to kill the group. Prove me wrong.
If the DM's goal was to kill off the PCs he could. The GM is only restricted by a sense of fair-play. Remember that next time you adopt that mindset.

No, the GM's goal is to both challenge the PCs and the players, as well as provide an interesting story and engaging world with which the characters can grow and develop.

>>52674496
Bait, but I'll bite. That kind of mentality isn't productive for anyone. I mean, come on man, you're all sitting down at the table for one thing, and that is WITNESSING MY MASSIVE THROBBING PLOT AND CHOKING ON MY LARGER THAN LIFE DMPC AS I SMACK IT ON YOUR FACE. LIKE. THE. PLAYER. YOU. ARE.

Well if we are coming up with dumb blanket statements about the DMs job.Maybe it would be better to say that it's the DMs job to kill the players as often as possible without them quitting? I mean that's not really how I DM either but fuck do my players die a lot. They don't seem to mind though, here is illustration one of my players made to commemorate every PC death in the campaign with a small hint at how each died (The last 4 was a TPK that he hasn't finished yet). This was from level 1-7ish. What do you think? Am I being too hard on them?

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>>52678815
Pic related.

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oh it's ANOTHER thread where OP is a slack jawed baiting faggot that needs the horse cock slapped out of their mouth.

>>52678815

No. The DM/GM's job is to provide an experience for the players. You give proper risk, and you give proper reward. It may be difficult, sure, but that's not the same thing as trying to toe the line of what will make your players quit. The goal is to create something challenging in nature, not unfair from the outset. To do otherwise is shitty. Even the most trying of vidya games (these days, don't you even battletoads me) rewards perseverance and learning when faced with fair (harsh, but fair) challenges.

>>52674496
Prove yourself right
Pro tip: You can't

>>52674496
Prove yourself right first.

>>52680756
Prove that he can't

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>>52674496
>Prove me wrong.
>Pro tip: You can't.
You can't prove someone wrong who is not willing to change his mind just out pure principle.

So have some elf boobs instead.

>>52680782
Prove I can't prove he can't

>>52680786

gib moar

>>52678815
I started running OSR games and focusing less on combat. Everyone is happier, but more characters die now. The nature of deaths changed though, people tend to die either as a planned sacrifice or due to a gap in planning (i.e. 'oh, we let the villian near the airlock button'). If your players don't mind or enjoy the attrition, I don't really see the problem with lots of character death.

>>52674496
If this were the case, the game would be over the moment it started, because the DM has ultimate power. The DM could just "rocks fall" the party, and the game would be over, or put them up agaisnt an enemy at a ridiculously higher power level than them, like locking a party of level 1s in a 5x5 room with a balor the first session.

>>52680805
>>52680786
seconded

>>52674496
DMing is not a job, ergo it is not the DM's job to do anything.

>>52674496
i can't necessarily prove you wrong because DM's can work in different ways that may suit their style and different players have different things they want out of TT that might make different DMs jive with them more or less.

I personally don't see a point in trying to kill them 100% of the time

I think it was gygax that said the players should pretty much always have a 70% chance of winning but it should feel like 30%

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>>52683714
>he's not a professional DM

>>52674496
The DM's job is to make sure everyone has fun--except himself. No one has fun GMing.

>>52683775
I must be doing it wrong.

>>52674496
In 4e D&D I could try to kill my players as hard as I wanted as long as I followed the XP guidelines for encounters.

I pulled exactly zero punches and forced them to grind out every single victory and had a blast doing it because I didn't have to bullshit a single thing. Every time they won it meant something because we all knew that they had earned it.

>>52674496
But anon, our party's only PC death was caused by other players.

By which I mean I kicked that little shit to death and I liked it.

>>52683786
Well one of us is please join my group

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>>52679198
just responding with a bait pic