/WFG/ Warhammer Fantasy General

Did the Red Duke have rules in WFB?

>>52671039

Nearly all the info we have on TK comes from the army books, as the Time of Legends novels takes place way before c.2500IC.

So in the blurbs they just give a quick archetype and it's up to us to develop it.

>>52671211

Nobody 'needs' to be whipped anon but once you start it's too fun to stop.

>>52673748

I don't think so, someone has given him fan rules for 8th edition though.

https://issuu.com/m4cr1ii3n/docs/warhammer_expansion_-_special_characters/126

>>52673811
Indeed. I think the sum total of official Tomb Kings lore that is not in Army Books comes from:
1) The first Time of Legends Nagash book. This deals with Nehekhara before it suffered from Vampires and the like, but since a lot of Tomb Kings / Princes hail from that time or earlier this isn't too much a problem. What might be a problem is that a lot of the stuff you see in the book isn't even paid lip service elsewhere (steam powered airships and Tomb Scorpions, alliances with Lizardmen, Lamians coming back with Cathay-an handgonnes), but if you don't mind such it gives a pretty interesting picture of Live!Nehekhara at war. Better portrayal than most fantastical settings when it comes to pantheons involving themselves in battle.
2) The Felix & Gotrek book "The Serpent Queen". I have not read it myself, but from what I've heard you can do worse with the Josh Reynolds G&F books. Also apparently a lot of people ship Felix with a mummy from that book.
3) Dreadfleet and other such one-off games / supplements which very briefly acknowledge the Tomb Kings' existence.
4) Warhammer Fantasy RPG's 2nd Edition adventure "Lure of the Liche Lord". It is only a moderate amount of fluff (not much more than you'd find in an Army Book's information section), but it still provides you with the history of a minor Tomb King and his province with enough detail (re: Them, their animated companions, etcetera) to get something out of it.

Aaaand I think that's literally it.

>>52673748
He at least had a model. Or at least the old Vampire lord on horseback was used in a battle report as him.
I don't remember much more though.

Maybe if you check a WD archive you can find out more?

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Does anyone have any suggestions for a model for the wizard from Vermintide?

The other four characters are fairly self-explanatory but finding a female Bring Wizard has been a bit of a challenge.

>>52673727
Goddamn there is nothing in that image i don't like, from the way the text is laid out to the colour choice, to the design of the orcs, just beautiful, man, beautiful.

How far along is the new novel archive? Can the Anon who has been working on it update the pastebin in the Op to reflect what we have and what is still needed?

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Curious as to opinions: https://strawpoll.com/83yd211

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>>52676856
It just seems weird when the Gods of Law are barely brought up, barely have a presence of worshipers in the lore, and End Times even brings up the question as to if they actually exist.

>>52676856

Order Warriors are ok (great, in fact), so long as they are as much of antagonists as Chaos Warriors.

Sigmarines are never ok.

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>>52676125

I've finally managed to look through every book tonight and added the best quality ones, a few a still not brilliantly formatted but I'll concentrate on a 100% archive for now.

Anyway, now it's just a matter of uploading them all so despite me saying this for the past week they will, on my honour, be up by tomorrow at the latest.

Here's an updated list also:

https://pastebin.com/TSQhemJR

I've added comics to it but I don't think this list is complete so if anyone has a lot of the comics or knows what they all are feel free to say.

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>>52676856

A part of me really wants to say yes because I hate to piss in peoples cornflakes when it comes to their own models but I just think Smegmarines have too much baggage. I look at them and want to vomit.

If you were going to do a Dark Elf army themed around Naggarond for 6ed, what units would you include/avoid? (Besides the obvious Black Guard)

>>52680129
Isn't one of the modified armylists in the 6th book a city guard?

>>52680273
It's in the 2003 Chronicles book, thanks Anon.

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>>52676856
No.

Also, get back to the End Times/Age of Sigmar thread. Low-tier bait is low-tier.

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Let's talk Vampires in Warhammer lore, I'm preparing an adventure for my whfrp group and I'm doing some research on Vampires in Warhammer, and also Sylvania.

It would be set somewhat after the Vampire Wars, after Stirlands invasion into western Sylvania.

What weaknesses and strengths do Carstein Vampires have? They are based around Dracula mostly but I've read they appear in mirrors and throw a shadow regardless, any conflicting information on that?
are they night active, and if yes how do they pass the daytime, in coffins? hanging from the rafters?

How gloomy is Sylvania? I know it's usually cloudy, but I doubt it would be perpetual night time.

any contributions are appreciated

>>52680822
I don't know about whfrp sources, but I'd advise you to read the 6th edition codex. It's my favorite interpretation of vampires in general and it conveys the right kind of gloomyness and general atmosphere. Also the short stories show that no human being should ever fuck with a vampire. There is a specific one where a group of vampire hunters invade a vampires home (a tower iirc) and they get beaten easily. It's been a while since last read it, but afaik vampires have no physical weaknesess if they are in sylavnia since there is no real daylight over there. It may be possible that I mixed that up though.

It's me - the annoying Nurgle-guy who keeps spamming these generals for help. This time, in lieu of an army-list, I'm considering a new build on my foot slugging Sorcerer Lord general, namely:

Sorcerer Lord - MoN, lvl 4 Wiz (Lore of Nurgle) Unholy Strike, Enchanted Shield, Sword of Striking and Talisman of Preservation (405p).

If used he'll lead my army in 1500/2000 points battles.

Do you guys reckon this a competent build? To me it seems like a good compromise between including the heavy hitting Chaos Lord while keeping the magical capacity of a Sorcerer Lord.

So I started a thread about this but only got a few responses. If I'm looking to get into WHFRP what is the difference between the editions, and what would you personally recommend?

>>52678905
Nice job Anon!

>>52680822

Night's Dark Masters the WFRP 2nd Edition Vampire source book has 10 pages specifically on the Von Carsteins and another 10 specifically on Sylvania.

>>52682205
WHFRPG 1st Edition has (depending on who you ask) either the best or absolute worst of the editions' rules, and is set earlier in the WHFB timeline when "Gods of Order" were a thing (so if you like your later edition fluff, it might be best to pass).

WHFRPG 2nd Edition is set in roughly the 6th / 7th Edition's era of fluff, with the odd piece from back in 5th Edition. Its rules are… well, a good way to sum them up is "They are to first print Dark Heresy what first print Dark Heresy was to Rogue Trader / Only War". You're probably going to need to house-rule some stuff, but it does hold at least somewhat together and it has some very solid WHF-flavor adventures and the like out for it.

WHFRPG 3rd Edition is a card game. Well, not entirely, but it's much more abstracted than prior editions and so closer in style to boxed games like Arkham Horror than a traditional RPG. Set around 7th to 8th edition fluff.

>>52682205

First and Second editions are both fairly similar, d100 systems and so on.

Second is a better organised book, has some changes to make things a bit less fiddly and the career/advancement system has a lot of differences.

Some people think Second is more balanced though that kind of thing is often due to personal taste.

Second also has the largest quantity of source, campaign and other extra books.

First edition does have slightly different lore in places, which again is personal preference on if it is better or worth combining with Second editions.

Third edition is rather different. Using a dice pool system with custom dice, and sets of cards.

This has resulted in many calling it a board game. As I've not played it I can't say if that's true or just a surface level thing.

There was a strong negative reaction to turning from fairly flexible d100 system into a proprietary thing with custom dice and so on.

>>52678905
nice i really appreciate it

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>>52681135
This one anon? I fucking love Vampire Counts and the 6th Ed book is my absolute favourite. The artwork, feel and overall mood of it is perfect.

>>52680822
Here's the page on the Von Carstein

>>52682718

I've only played very casually so we never actually did any organised house ruling.

More if we hit something weird or that seemed wrong for the situation we would tweak it on the spot.

Never had any trouble playing it that way but I'm sure that would infuriate some players and GMs. Also I'm sure some issues just simply have never come up because we never had need for a specific rule.

One thing I've generally always been very flexible on is the career system. If that needs to be bent or broken in the interest of a character's advancements to feel more in line with the story then so be it, but still using what is there for balance comparison.

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>>52682913
Jesus Christ that glare. My bad. Better photo for you

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>>52682928
And the actual photo because I'm a dumb shit taking photos at 2am while drunk

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>>52682527
thanks for the source.

>>52682718
>>52682893
Where would one start on the WHF Lore?

Can we talk mordheim in here?

>>52683019
Yep, we love it.

>>52683052
I miss it. Wish I had friends to play it with. I've put together over 40 buildings of terrain for it, with countless little extras. I love mordheim. What are some common houserules you guys include?

>>52682995

Well for me I've never been that bothered by the dates and having stuff in any historical order, just reading up on the various races and their interactions with each other.

I'm sure there's some general overviews online that would be a good start then you can see what interests you to look into more.

The 3 "eras" of Lore where big changes have happened if I remember right would be:

- pre-4th edition Warhammer (before the 90s)
- 4th edition to 8th edition (1990-2013)
- End of Times/Age of Sigmar (2014, where the universe got hamfistedly ended and rebooted)

Most of the time people use that middle era as it is where the most detailed lore about specific races and areas can usually be found. Though there is some fun stuff from the earlier era that was either replaced or never spoken of again.

To run a game you would only really need to know about the lore of the specific area you are running the game in and forces involved (and a basic overview of the world).

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>>52683442
Cool, thanks for all the help!

>>52683442
One could readily argue that 8th Edition was, in and of itself, the herald of EoT / AoS. In the very least it was fairly different from prior editions with the increased focus on monstrous creatures and cavalry along with the change in fluff to differentiate the setting from historical precedent (as well as a decrease in focus on the window dressing to focus more on the war-game aspects).

>>52683818

Ah thanks, I wasn't totally sure if it was just suddenly dropped into 8th or begun with 8th as I stopped playing warhammer before 8th came out.

Just happily swimming around in my pre-8th bubble till I heard about End of Times and got some morbid curiosity.

>>52680822

I think Sylvania can be whatever you want it to be, there will certainly be parts that look like Castle Drachenfels with the silhouette in front of a low moon and the Norman architecture. But there will also be villages that on the surface look very typical of something you would find in Stirland.

>>52680822
Vampire are probably one of the most powerful single combatants baring a Chaos Champion.

One of their only weaknesses is their aggression combined with their arrogance, so a suitable level of preparation could tip the balance.

>>52682995

I would start with the 8th edition rulebook and the army books of your choice and work backwards from their (ie. 7th BRB+AB's, 6th BRB+AB's). Then for some factions there are specific books that are bibles (Liber Necris for Vampires, Heirs of Sigmar for Empire).

>>52682077

That seems pretty good, I would generally go for a separation of duties but I know Chaos can be an exception because even their Wizards can throw out some damage.

Mind you, I generally keep my Vampires as a blender and use a Necro for casting, which might be something to bear in mind. At 400 points he might struggle to make it back.

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You all ready to get spooky?

Alternative Wight King in that new AoS game.

>>52684342
>thought the skelly hand on the tombstone was the kings monkey like toes comin out of his boot

>>52684342

I must admit I do like how the GW skeletons have normal skulls. If I remember right the Mantic ones all have like "evil face" skulls like the bone is pulled into a more sinister shape.

Do any other companies make, for want of a better term, realistic looking skeletons?

>>52684379

> You're M8's waking up after 600 years and you just step on his fingers in your mailed boot.

What are friends for.

>>52680428
Slaanesh Variant 2 shield is pretty, pretty, pretty good.

>>52684342
https://youtu.be/AINXWdt3sjg

Not bad.

I won't play the game, because
>AoS lore
but can see myself trawling eBay for those.

I did buy Scuttlings from Bits World after all.

>>52676856
I accept it if GW did it in a resurrected Fantasy, or an opponent did it.

But I wouldn't do it. Sigmarines are tainted in my eyes.

>>52675764
The problem is her brazier collar. Nobody makes it.

Reaper has a lot for everything else on her though.

>>52674003
WAR had a TK expansion.

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>>52684342
Gotta admit, GW has done a great job with their Wight Kings.

>>52684342
That's pretty good actually, it's not horribly overdone and not to many fiddly bits to paint.


Stop getting things right gw...

>>52684342
I'm not gonna call it shit just because it's AoS, it's a good model and you have to applaud GW for a job well done, but it's utterly wasted on AoS, but still fits perfectly fine with old WHFB lore so I might get one.

>>52684898
Elfdar are next.

It'll be the combo breaker unless they make a badass Morathi<$50.

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How into it would you guys be if someone made color templates for the different models in the game like the Heraldry books had?

What army would you want first?

>>52683818

>increases focus on monstruous creatures and cavalry
>8th ed

You might be playing a different game.

GW was trying to shill those. The rules actually advantaged regular troops

>>52685187
8th was schizophrenic, it pushed taking clumps of regular troops but made it piss easy to kill them.

It did fuck all for cavalry (my poor fast cav...) but the army books and marketing pushed big centrepiece models and monster cavalry like the empire wizard wagons, the sphinx, the mega spider, etc.

>>52685244
>>52685187

7th edition is generally seen as the cav edition.

>>52685244
They thought balance could be achieved by ridiculous hard counters everywhere, forcing people to buy the armies to hard counter everything.

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>>52684410
Yeah, I'd like the Mantic ones if they weren't all Army of Darkness. The eyes in the sockets don't help either.

Wargames Factory used to do some nice (if fragile) plastic skeletons but I think they disappeared when they got bought by Warlord Games.

>>52685292
They also removed tactics, it became a lot easier to recover from a failed charge or charging a diverting unit.

>>52673727
Should I play 6th or 7th edition?

>>52685376

Well, it also became fucking easy to fail a charge

>>52685397
6e, with 7e books.

What are some fun things to do in combat in WFRP 2E that isn't spamming swift attack? I feel like most characters usually end up prioritizing swift attack to get as much hurt out as possible but it does get repetitive.

>>52684272
Tbh, the only real difference on the guy in comparison to my standard Sorc Lord is that I've replaced scaled skin, dragon helm and flaming breath with Unholy Strike, enchanted shield and Sword of Striking making him reliably fighty at the cost off an armour save that is one step worse and no fire res at 5 points cheaper.

>>52684342
God damn, that's one sexy skellington!

>>52684601
I like them all except for scythe guy.

These boardgame boxes have been pretty great since they have grunt level dudes with hero levels of detail. Of course, monopose, etc, but still.

>>52686858
At least skeletons are easy to mod for other poses.

>>52685667

Think up non combat solutions, traps, distractions, etc.

Use things like wrestle.

To be honest I usually play very low power level though so having more than 1 attack is a rarity anyway and WS is so low that all out attack becomes pretty useful.

>>52685428
Only if you were shit and the units that matter don't give a shit about it - Full armoured Grave Guard, Elves, that sort of thing.

I like random charge distances for removing the "everyone stops 8.5 inches away and waits for 2 turns" that made 7th a bit of a nightmare. Pity 8th got rid of that AND scrapped bait units being any good at drawing people out of position for a flank or rear charge

What would be a good way to start getting into Mordheim as somebody new to wargaming? I'm looking to play the old Britannia stuff if that helps, maybe some skeletons. GF will probably be playing elves of some sort

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What minis are these? Can't find them on GW.

>>52687308
i recognise parts of them
looks like a very heavy conversion/kitbash

>>52687308
Those look kinda like Mordheim miniatures? That would explain why you can't find them. They aren't selling the fuckers anymore.

>>52687325
Thanks

>>52687329
Oh okay thanks, I'll keep an eye on eBay

>>52687308
Those are free company (originally Mordheim Reikland and Middenheim gangs) and they've been converted a fair bit.


The best kit GW ever made

>>52674672
He looked a lot like the Blood Dragon Vampire Lord model type, yeah....

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Are there any actual art of a tzeentch beastman?

>>52685187
The RULES for them were shit, but GW did release models for them by the assload while adding them to the lore when in some cases the did not even exist in the background beforehand.

>>52687437
Thanks man

>>52687498
I haven't found any from Fantasy-era (Shitmar models actually aren't bad) but I'm pretty sure they were supposed to have spotted coats like various big cats IIRC

>>52687437
i recognize some greatsword heads and state troop bodies to

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>>52687574
Thing is, I'm trying to find art for making a token for Roll20. Makes me sad there seem to be no art.

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>>52687718
The Liber Mutatis has no art for them, I just checked. It does have art for the feathered fiends, though, which maybe you could use as a placeholder.

>>52687308
>>52687437
There are a couple of free company/mordheim bits but they mostly look like a mix of new state troopers (legs and bodies), old state troopers (all the puff-and-slash arms) and greatswords (sallet helm? bearded guy at the front? I'm not that familiar with the later Empire stuff).

The Free Company parts are the kettle helm on 2, open hand on 3 (just the hand), spare flambards from the accessory sprue on 4 and 5, dagger arm on 7 and the blunderbuss on 9.

Hell, I think that's a catachan arm on 8.

>>52687498
Check the two trading card games?

We have art of Malal Beastmen through the first.

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>>52687498
Here

>>52685397

I would say 6th with Ravening Hordes.

>>52687121

All the rules for Mordheim are in the WFB OP.

I would get a box of Great Swords and Archers for most of the Empire warbands. For undead you'll need quite a few different boxes unfortunately and a Vampire.

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Who is considered better warriors, Phoenix Guard or White Lions?

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>>52687498
Nothing that I can find for fantasy, at least before AoS, but this Tzaangor from 40k might be at least inspiring. Only textual description has them as having tiger stripes or leopard spots.

It seems that only Pestigors and Khorngors got models, and they were actually pretty nice looking all in all.

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>>52673727
I've done a tiny bit more editing to my homebrew, mostly to explain the new rune rules. Would you use this?

>>52688717
Different type of warrior, so hard to argue.

Phoenix Guard know exactly when to act and how, and thus live or die by destiny rather than skill. Also magical divine buffs straight from Asuryan himself.

White Lions are hardened by a lifetime of hunting and fighting monsters and Daemons.

So it depends on what you define as a "better" warrior, one with more hard-earned skill or one who acts via destiny and the will of god?

Throw in Swordmasters and the argument becomes mission from god VS rough living VS constant training. Crusader, quester, cavalier.

>>52689289
If you go by tabletop stats Phoenix Guard have better morale and initiative with Lions being only stronger.

>>52689657
Depends on edition if you go by stats. GW could never got all three viable and kept tweaking them. But in every edition one just became a deathstar, one a mediocre, and one shit.

>>52688717

I'm going to go Phoenix Guard, their job is more important guarding the high King.

>>52689877
Actually, White Lions guard the Phoenix King.

Phoenix Guard are priests of Asuryan, and see to the Phoenix King's body after he dies.

>>52689957

Shows how much I know about Elves, in that case I'd say White Lions.

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How is it that the Empire is at an early-modern level of technology, but they manage to make repeater handguns that are almost like crude revolvers?

>>52690206

The Dwarfs gave the Empire the cheat sheet.

>>52685045
I always found those color templates a great reference for which colors mesh well, while fluffing the army up

Empire, Dwarfs and Brets seem like the obvious candidates

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>>52673727
>I recognize that shield!

What are these "Maidens of Malal" that I keep seing on 1d4chan and do they have any actual basis in canon/art?

>>52690077
White Lions are like Elf Space Marines.

They train by hunting animals, then graduate to Daemons, then monsters. By hunting and killing a White Lion they graduate and are given magic armor. But only the best of the best White Lions guard the Phoenix King, the option in the army book includes everyone who has killed a White Lion. Most just wander Ulthuan and the world proper, killing Daemons and monsters. They go where they want killing whatever unless one of the few appointed to serve the Phoenix King as guards.

Phoenix Guard are chosen by destiny, fight by destiny, and die at the appointed time. They win until their personal part of the prophesy wall says they lose, and even when Tzeentch is involved the wall is never wrong. NEVER wrong. They do what Asuryan wrote they will do, nothing else.

Swordmasters are more variable. They spend all their time practicing martial arts and learning magic using tantric movements and using swords weighted in perfect harmony with their body down to the weight of each eyelash which are heavy enough only an Ogre could pick it up with strength alone. Swordmasters are bodyguards to wizards, as well as the Inquisition and special forces of the High Elves.

>>52690365
Empire has one.

I'll give Dwarfs a shot. I'll post if it looks okay.

>>52690578
The top of that page indicates it as a fan creation.

But I'd bet good money that if you sent an e-mail that Tony Ackland would draw it and make it legit since he owns the rights to Malal.

>>52683153
One thing we did for armour in my old group was make saves one pip higher, so heavy armour was 4+, light armour was 5+, gromril 3+, etc. But we kept prices the same. It made armour more appealing, but not a no brainer, crits will always fuck you after all. Another was a set of "pansy rules" that ranged from leaders/heroes get a reroll on the injury table for the 11-15 result for the first few games, leaders start with an extra skill from one of their available skill tables and a few other things I can't remember, basically it was to avoid a game 1-3 crippling of our warbands.

I've toyed around with making some alternative armour save rules, but abandoned the idea because it felt too clunky for an already clunky game.

>>52690206

Models have multiple barrels on their guns, so they're pepperboxes. The oldest ones do date back to the late 1500's or so, same time as the earliest revolver mechanisms. So the Empire is actually on track with gun technology compared to general aesthetic and tech level. They just didn't get really popular until a few centuries later.

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>>52691077
I think I may have gotten the wrong idea from the Total Warhammer models - they look like they have a revolver cylinder, whatever you call it.

yeah but does skaven prostitution exist?

>>52691903
Thanquol rewards a servant with fucking a female.

But since females are just unthinking giant rats giving birth 24/7, no. Not in the traditional sense.

>>52692234
It was the best 6 seconds of his life.

>>52682077

In all honesty it probably doesn't need lvl 4 to be effective.

Expect to be outmanouevred and outnumbered each game, though. I trust you're bringing Warshrines, Chosen and Juggernauts?

>>52682913

6th ed VC book is brilliant

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>>52690206

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>>52692760
On the revolver part.
They're both wheel locks too, which means 16th century most likely.

>>52692234
More of rent-boy type is more likely I'd assume.

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Do Hobgoblins only serve Chaos Dwarfs?

>>52693003
They're the only ones who will take them in. All greenskins hate Hobgoblins. All of them. And they're enslaved as readily as any other by Skaven, and an ogre wouldn't trust a backstabber like a hob, seeing as how gnoblars are just too small to really pose a threat.

The Black Orc Rebellion was literally 'stabbed in the back'.

green jews

>>52693091
How is that any different from any other greenskin? They're all backstabbers, they all fight each other, they only unite for loot or the calling of Gork and Mork and kill each other constantly the whole time.

>>52693003
They have their own Khanate too. The Chaos Dwarf servants are just a subset.

>>52692787

That is one of the most unspeakably sexy firearms I've ever seen. Do you know where that's from?

>>52693136
Hobgoblins ruined the Rebellion when it was on the brink of victory. Had they not stabbed the Black Orcs in the back they would have won, the Chaos Dwarfs would have been wiped out and they would have all been free. But in doing that they earned themselves a spot as house niggers along with the ire of the greenskin race.

>>52693176
Why would Savage Orcs, Night Goblins, Forest Goblins, Plains Orcs, or Plains Goblins care what happened to Black Orcs? They don't even like Black Orcs, they just follow them for the scrap loot when a WAAAGH forms.

>>52693173
Just reverse searched it and got this page: http://www.liveauctionworld.com/High-art-decorated-wheel-lock-revolving-carbine-with-royal-European-Court-styling-and-Russian-moti_i12499785

Which also means I was wrong on the date slightly - it's early c17th as opposed to late c16th.

>>52693136
I think it's the idea that hobgoblins will backstab even when the odds are already in their favor. They could have just worked with the Greenskins and destroyed the Chaos Dwarves - it's not as if there was a stalemate, the Chaos Dwarves were losing - but they turned on their brethren at the last moment.

It probably just doesn't really make sense to most Orcs and Goblins - they aren't loyal, but they recognize and respect strength. What proper greenskin would spit on strength like that, and turn on his own kin in favor of the hated Chaos Dwarves? It's not like the Orcs under Gorbad will stab him in the back while he's doing well.

But anyway, back to the question, I believe sometimes Hobgoblin Khans (and their tribes) will fight as mercenaries for other races.

>>52691077

Not him but thanks for the name, I assume this is what a 'duck foot' is? It was a pistol used in the Royal Navy by officers with multiple barrels since they were always outnumbered.

>>52693209
The Black Orcs lead the Rebellion, due to their semi professional nature, acting as leaders and tacticians. I use those terms loosely. The majority of the Rebellion were normal boyz and gobbos. In stabbing the Rebellion in the back, they sold out the greenskins to hated dwarfs.

>>52693235
>It's not like the Orcs under Gorbad will stab him in the back while he's doing well.
But they will, to be the Boss. They'll also destroy allies when battles are over, if if they want to leave so they don't leave a rival who wants them dead for abandoning them.

>>52693261
So that matters to those individuals, but not to the entire rest of the race.

Plus, ALL Hobgoblins participated in that?

>>52693278
All Hobgoblins in Zhar Naggrund, though I'm sure the ones who didn't want to cooperate were killed before the back stabbing, or after the greenskins realized their betrayal. Plus it isn't so hard to believe that an orc will label an entire sub-race in a certain way.

>>52693136

Orcs don't stab each other in the back, they have a proper fight and the strongest either kills the weaker or beats him into submission. Once everyone's convinced he's the biggest and ugliest they'll turn their aggression outwards.

In Hobgoblin and Goblin society it's the most devious, they'll rarely have a straight up fight.

>>52690763
Intriguing, but I'm not one to believe that any artist just does art for free

>>52693255

A duck foot should have all of the barrels firing at once instead of rotating to reload, so it's kind of its own weird thing. I don't think I've ever heard of one that used the multiple barrels as a reloading mechanism, but I don't see any reason why it couldn't exist beyond maybe mechanical complexity. So somebody has probably made one that is both a duck foot and either a pepperbox or a revolver, but they don't have to be the same thing.

>>52693495
Fun fact, Hobgoblins apparently have a large bone in their back that gives them their stoop and also prevents backstabs. I'm sure it doesn't stop back stabs everywhere, but whatever.

>>52693528

They'd be deadly opponents on Dark Souls.

>>52693528
>>52693559

Also, why do they all wear Phrygian caps? Is there a shop in the Dark Lands that does bulk discounts or something?

>>52693583
Likely to give the 'ancient world' impression, as Chaos Dwarfs have Babylonian influences.

>>52693583
Hard to say - probably just to differentiate them from goblins. I want to say to give them an ancient theme and give Gw that much credit, but the clothing in their old minis doesn't suggest that, and newer lore suggests them as being Mongol themed, which is...well, kind of overplayed in the setting, considering the Kurgan and Hung also both fill that role.

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>>52693678

Well Hobgob's are pretty old so I'd give them the credit; back when GW had competent people working for them.

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>>mfw the new Warhammer hack & slash game is a co-op Gotrek and Felix adventure
>>mfw the player who chooses Gotrek gets most of the kills

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>>52695142
>mfw Ulrika player just spams voice lines and complains

New novel MEGA:

https://mega.nz/#F!oKQyjZ4R!qfplYJBUdn_VoDFScXxIxQ

Only uploaded up to Skaven file, I'll do the rest tomorrow.

>>52695711

I may as well make a MEGA to rule them all and upload all the WFB, RPG, Mordheim, Man O' War and Warmaster stuff... eventually.

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>>52695711
You're doing Tchar's work, son.

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Are the Old World gods the same as the gods of Nekhara, or are they each distinct pantheons?

>>52696660
As per how gods work in Warhammer, they're similar but distinct. Unless you're retarded End Times. But fuck that.

The gods of men fulfil similar roles, except in the case of 'regional gods' such as Sigmar and The Lady of the Lake.

>>52696660
I think they're separate.
At least formally.

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>>52696660
Not particularly. Much like its real-world counterpart, the Nehekharan pantheon and belief system is rather unique and mirror the animal-headed gods and death cults of ancient Egypt.

The Nehekharan gods once walked the planet, and only after their ascent beyond the mortal plane did the chief of the gods, Ptra, create mankind. If this is true, there is a better connection to the Old Ones than the other human gods.

*blocks your path
*teleports behind you
*adjusts fedora
*wipes Cheeto dust from fingers
*unsheathes katana
"I hope you know endtimes is canon"

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Sorry to bring up End Times shit, but it's vaguely on topic: what do you think Morghasts would have looked like if they were cleaned up a bit, having once been Ptra's servants? How could you make undead essentially angels anyway? Did anyone make use of or even care about these?

>>52697063
To undo the works of Nagash and restore the Hammurai, I'd say replace the edgelord blades with khopesh, make the wings that of the winged sun motif, and restore them to a fleshy (not skeletal, not construct) state. The animals they are based on can probably be a mix-and-match of whatever, seeing as the demons real-world Egyptian mythology were as such. And no, while Egyptian demons were meant to be feared, they were not inherently bad at all. There's no real analogue to "angels".

It's a shame that we've never seen what they looked like before. Would have been neat to maybe see them in Total War.

>>52697188
probably more similar to Shinto spirits.

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>>52697040
Canon in another setting we don't really care about.

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>>52696660
There's no such thing as "same gods" in Warhammer Fantasy, since they're not distinct personas. One god may share a name, but be interpreted in distinct fashions in different regions, but both are equally "real" when manifesting their power, and equally "distinct" (or indistinct).

Similarly, two extremely similar gods can be worshiped independently of eachother and essentially be the same deity, yet have different names to which they will adhere.

So in a nutshell, yes, the gods are the same in the Old World as they were in Nehekhara, because they occupied the same general "space" in the Realms of Chaos/The Warp, they consisted largely of the same emotions/beliefs that manifest within Chaos as intangible personas/tangible force, but no, they were interpreted as completely different deities, with different names and different personas, and thus they exhibited different behaviour and had different iconography and so on.

If you were to actually converse with, say, Ulric or Ursun, I guess it's possible that they would have a hazy memory of once being a different deity or have memories stretching back in time before they even coalesced within the timeless aethyr, but more likely than not, they are completely distinct in the way they manifest, because (as far as I'm aware) there is no cultural connection between them (but there absolutely might be, at some point, millennia ago).

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>>52695284
>mfw Thanquol blames everything on everyone as yet another Boneripper gets hacked by Gotrek

>>52697677
this is not entirely accurate, it has some holes. Many "Gods" existed before the World ever came in contact with the Warp. Khaine, Hoeth and Asuryans presence predate the influence of Tzeentch and Khorne on the world. We do not know the nature of the Old Ones, who are most likely the creators of/or actual Gods of the Old World.

We don't know how many of them there are or where they have gone. Making one sided conclusions based on the Chaos Armybooks is less than satisfactory, and End Times lore isn't representative of anything.

>>52698014
The world was always "in contact" with the aethyr, and there are things living in the universe (such as Old Ones) beyond what's on the planet, before or after the gates. Some gods or concepts predating other gods or concepts only makes sense, and the majority of that "elven gods lol" is End Times/Age of Sigmar fare, and inapplicable.

>>52698577
Elven Gods Lol is not end times fare since there was plenty of lore on them before 8th edition.

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>mfw I just got a second-hand Mighty Empires set for free

>>52692548
Never really considered demoting him to lvl 3 but that might be a good way to save some points.
I'm currently messing around with different army-lists of which some include chosen and/or warshrines but as a mono-nurgle player none include skullcrushers. If you or anyone else is interested I can post some.
The base of my lists are constituted by 1-2 Warriors of Nurgle units and one Gorebeast chariot of nurgle.

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>>52698727
I obviously wasn't referring to the fact that there were elven gods at all, but the idea that they factually predated the coming of The Old Ones.

>>52700842

>Here be daemons

CHAOS
PENGUIN
MEN

>>52700932
or kangaroos?

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>>52701130
>pic related

bamp

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>>52700932
Deadly demon penguins, the natural enemy of vargheists

>>52702712
It would make for an interesting wacky nature show

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>>52695711
(you) are the man

>>52700240

Nice, I always wanted to play Mighty Empire. The tiles were quite cool as well.

>>52700842

That map has Cathay and Khuresh the wrong way around.

>>52703033
What is Khuresh?

>>52697063

I quite like them to be honest.

Don't quote me on this but didn't Nagash have an undead kingdom to the North-East of the Tomb Kings? It continued on after he died (again) and he had his lieutenants running it. These guys were supposed to be part of this undead kingdom weren't they? They all wear that purple plate armour.

I think having a third undead faction is fine and I guess there's no reason why they wouldn't wage war before Nagash was resurrected at the ET.

>>52703055

We don't know much about it other than that it's like South-East Asia.

http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Khuresh

On some maps they seem to get them mixed up, but Cathay should always be in the North since other wise they would have no use for a great wall.

Your dudes died horribly during the endtimes and there's nothing you can do about it

>>52703212

The candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long.

>>52703212
Jokes on you. They died way earlier, got resurrected, fought through the enitre timline of whfb, fought through the endtimes, died, got resurrected AGAIN and are currently fighting through the age of Sigmar.
And there is nothing YOU can do about it.

>>52703212
Not only did my dudes die horribly, their model range was killed as well.

>>52703212
I can mark it in the book of grudges and complain about it whenever I want.

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>>52703033
>That map has Cathay and Khuresh the wrong way around.
Arguably, yes. Or, most other maps that have Cathay and Khuresh have it the wrong way around. Unreliable narration is funny like that. But it's not like I made the map.

>>52703212
>implying anyone cares about the End Times in an entirely different setting

>>52703033
They seemed to have flipped it at some point. I'm no lore expert or anything, but I imagine that it might have been around the creation of ogres as an army - they needed to explain how they got to the Mountains of Mourn, and Cathay ended up being central to that, and a lot of geographic ideas about an area otherwise not explored got tied down.

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>>52703033
There is newer version from heraldry book.

What ever happened with Warhammer Online?

>>52705116
The tl;dr, to my understanding is:
>Original one fell through for reasons I can't recall ATM
>Second one was effectively a money laundering scam wherein the devs took money from the project and used it for their own ends
>Third was what we got
>Mythic was bought out by EA at some point
>EA was in a rush to get their WoW killer before the MMO bubble popped, stopped giving Mythic extensions on their deadline
>Which meant significantly cutting down on polish, removing classes from most races, and removing all but something like 2 or 3 capitals
>The pain from this burn did nothing to help the fact that, while intended to be RvR with relatively even numbers on both sides, on practically every server (many of which were under-populated) one side tended to have a 2:1 numerical superiority or better
>Meaning RvR became a joke as one side would drown the other in numbers

My understanding of the game, since I didn't have the finances to play a non-F2P MMO at the time, is that it wasn't bad and implemented (or at least gave an AA's acknowledgement and thus opened the door to future developers implementing) features that are almost staple now-days in MMOs, but it was obviously incomplete and the prior flaws / complications basically left it dead in the water. Eventually EA pulled the plug on the game because it - like many other MMOs of the early '10's - failed to sustain the WoW-like number projections which motivated the project in the first place.

Protip, however: If people use the Internet Archive, most of the WO:AoR concept art is still accessible online at full-size. Just go to… I want to say one of the 2010 archives, find the image gallery, and go nuts.

>>52705116
Shit support and strongarm developers that didn't listen to feedback. For example, when it was brought up that there were no regional chats so you could talk to people and organize in a region, they just said that you didn't need that in WAR, because there were Open Group Quests and Guilds.

Guilds that never formed because people never talked and those that did never got recruits.

And the support was really, really horrendous, especially in Europe, where they had contracted the ill-reputable GOA too handle it, in a predictably hamfisted and insane manner, with slow response times, an unwillingness or inability to help (because individual GM:s had no authority to help in most cases), and an itchy trigger finger handing out permanent bans if you told them to go fuck themselves if you, for example, asked for a refund for playtime you hadn't even used yet, because the advertisement had suggested that content had been added but that was still two weeks out.

Shit like that all adds up.

The fact that it was pushed out the door before it was finished didn't help either, but it could've survived that, had it focused on building a social capital and element of trust in continued development.

>>52705956
>>52705504

fair enough.

Was the game itself fun though?

I just ended up buying the artbook for it off ebay for cheap and it looked really nice.

Also I picked up a Limited Edition Orcs & Goblins Grumlok & Gazbag model too.

so I was just curious what happened with the game itself.

>>52706098
Personally, I thought it was really fucking fun. I wish they had gone all-out with the RvR, though, instead of trying to make the areas essentially instanced. I liked the PvE and it's the only game where I ever enjoyed the PvP, but in the world, you never really engaged in the PvP unless you had to, especially at lower levels. They should've made that over the entire world.

But was it fun? Yeah, it was fun. And since I have the CE myself, yeah, the artbook is crazy, crazy nice.

>>52705956

Just another day in EA land.

I also think a lot of these MMO's missed the boat on the craze, seems only WOW has made a success of it, all the others fall by the wayside.

>>52706098

Really great model, it's always a shame though that games like this get nice models and Vermintide get's nothing.

>>52706312

GW are fucking awful at doing tie-ins, they always seem to be about 10 years behind the competition.

Until the last year they wouldn't even help advertise new video games that were coming out.

I always wonder in what parallel universe how successful the warhammer universes would be if GW wasnt run by a bunch of complete and utter morons.

>>52706306

Thats good to hear somebody enjoyed playing it.

I really like the artbook because from what I recall GW hasnt done something like that for Warhammer itself other than the Liber Chaotica and stuff like that.

Unless im wrong there isnt a definitive book containing all the major factions and settlements and artwork. The rulebook itself too clunky and I dont want the rules. The army books also would be hugely expensive if I had to buy them all.

Its a shame really.

>>52706514
AoR collector's edition came with exclusive miniature though.

>>52706678

This was the exception to the rule, they should do this for every game.

EA being as big as they are, they probably held their feet to the fire.

>>52706721
you can basically build all the characters from the space marine game with the plastic sternguard box.
Most of the time I find it's the other way around though. The heroes of the videogames are minor variations on the heros of the tabletop.
Can't really think of anything really unique that springs to mind.
I mean even quirky characters like bludflagg from DoW are just a headswap away from being represented model wise.

I doubt EA needed to hold anybody's feet to the fire.
The first game that failed got featured prominently in WD, I think the GW people were pretty happy to have an MMO.
They probably had big hopes for the game.

Anyone have a link to the Blackhearts Omnibus?

>>52707280

I'll be uploading them tonight then I'll post a link to the MEGA.

>>52706635
You are, to my knowledge, correct. The Liber Chaotica isn't even really an art book, nor does it count as a "definitive" book due to contradictions between editions and the like (recall that it had even been OoP for a while).

On one hand this is something of a pity, but on the other - even with WHFB having far less official GW / BL material than 40K - it'd be an absolute mess to try compiling. Some of the faction stuff paints an incomplete picture without the proper nuance, and with the proper nuance sometimes requiring one to go back over a period of centuries / millennia and / or involve multiple factions the book would wind up looking vaguely "Silmarilion but with pictures"-esque in short order (see: An absolute chore to read in more than small chunks and full of minutia the average consumer couldn't care less about).

>>52707280
I have only the hardback, but I heartily recommend it. Some time between the middle of the 2nd book and the end of the 3rd it starts to get derivative in a couple spots, but overall it's an at least satisfactory read with some interesting characters and that's a mark up over roughly half the shit BL's put out over the years.

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What's everyone's favorite model come to life in Total War Warhammer? I'm rather fond of the Minotaurs

>>52707754
Imo, they nailed the look and feel of Dragon Ogres

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So I finished the test model for these guys - always takes me a bit on that first model, figuring out what I want. I'll get a pic of the finished product once the roomie gets home with a better camera - my cellphone was a dollar, so the thing is barely functional.

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>>52707754
Vampire chan.

>>52707864
Man, the accusations of CA being SJW'S is really in question when you look at those fucking thighs...

>>52707894
The plunging cleavage, vampire panties and hips, too. Marvelous.

>>52707754
I can't say most of Bretonnia's units were amazing, but I really like how Pegasus Knights turned out. It's kinda fun how they 'run' while flying.

Otherwise, I gotta say Crypt Horrors or Demigryph Knights. The latter especially has a fun catlike way of running which stands out from all the horses.

>>52707754
I love how Slayers jump in the air doing karate shit.

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>>52707894

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>>52708646

>>52703229
Mm-hm.

Dernit.

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>>52703212
I never played End Times.

>>52706098
I played a bit of the free to level 20 stuff and thought it was fun. It was pretty much a wow clone with a few new ideas. Never tried RvR though

>>52709119
Really looks like a corpse.

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>>52709291
Rattle, rattle, five ulna.

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>>52706098
I spent more time in WAR than I'm willing to admit, because while it certainly wasn't what they hyped it to be, there was so much you could do that was just fun.

>Get 4 other folk on skype, all make dwarf engineers
>Queue up for the Nordenwatch PVP at level 3
>Function as a gunline, one person calling out targets
>Turrets everywhere
>Hiding on roofs, ramparts, trees, anything where we can be annoying shits
>A level 9 Witch Elf has had enough of our shit, comes charging up the stairs at us
>We all converge on her and beat her to death with our wrenches like some dirty back-alley mugging, grunting and grumbling silly dwarven shit the whole time
>She didn't come back

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Just ordered a Free Company kit, going to paint them like the Band of the Hawk for my Mordheim mercenary warband.
Anyone else have any Mordheim related stuff to share?

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>>52709735
Never played it, but the Witch Hunter Captain is still one of my top 10 favorite models.

>>52709735
My favorite coreheim stories are 1: The time a skaven hero attempted to leap from one building to a second building to assassinate a human hero, but the human had a henchman buddy to intercept, but there was nowhere to intercept to except off of the balcony, so the henchman and the skaven collided midair, hit the ground, were 100% fine, then fought a round of combat with no injuries, and 2: the time two of my trash heroes spent about five rounds shooting arrows at a rat ogre immediately below them, to no effect, while the rat ogre failed every attempt to climb up to their level. Eventually the rat ogre left to fight someone else.

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>>52707842

Nice, I'm interested to see what they look like with the new shields.

Just finished the Sergeant for my halberd regiment, had to take it on the potato unfortunately.

>>52707754

Demi-gryphs looks great when they charge in.

It was nice to see the Bretonnian units as well, CA did some minor updates to them.

>>52688717
It still hurts that GW killed of burly lumberjack Elves. Their High Elves were really something.

>>52710628
I actually found one last remaining TK shield at the bottom of my bits box, so I figure he'll be the sergeant. Thinking of fluffing them out as a provincial army or something, that was subservient to a prince in life, and had the honor of being interred near him, hence the odd equipment. Hard to take liberties with Tomb Kings though, since they're a fairly strict faction when it comes to fluff, if that makes sense.

And that is a wondrous beard on that halberdier.

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>>52710685
I never liked Battle Chickens but yeah the Bret units look amazing, especially the new Knight Errant design CA created

>>52711380
The Knights Errant were great, I was so happy when I first saw them - they actually stood out from Knights of the Realm! Missed opportunity to include some bits of lesser or older armor besides the helmets, but ah well.

Still a little mad that Foot Squires are just essentially dismounted Questing Knights. Couldn't even stick a helmet on them.

Really not feeling the toad-like Slann in the computer game.

Slann are frogs, supposed to have long slim arms compared to their body.

>>52712469

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7X_xmhPbW4

We do not use the F word in this house.

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>>52712469
I admit I was never a lizardman player, but I kind of like them. It makes them look older, and I like how subtle their teeth are - they probably have other slightly reptilian bits I haven't seen yet as well.

I'm a little glad that, in all the ways that I feel like CA stuck too close to the lore (Malekith's mask looks a little silly in practice), they were willing to take a chance on the Slann, and the Forest Dragons come to think of it. I like seeing their creativity at work.

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Does that one person / people here still work on Endhammer? I doubt it's going anywhere but it was kind of fun to contribute to.

>>52700842
elven gods don't predate the coming of the old ones, I said the Elven Gods may be created by, or be old ones themself.

and we don't know if the Old Ones and in extension Gods of the World had a purely physical or spiritual presence, or if they were Warp beings or something else.

Reducing the Warhammer Universe to Warp and Material Realm is kinda stupid in my eyes and was one of the worst changes 8th/End Times brought. In the Elven Lore there is talk of the Underworld and Heavens, having many other planes of existance besides the realm of chaos and mortals is a good move since you can add a wode array of depth to the setting.

Simply saying "they died when the Gates crashed" is pretty cheap an unsatisfactory. But it really goes into headcanon territory when you go off GWs beaten path, so all of it is speculation.

But leaving room for speculation was the exact thing that drew me and I am certain many others to the Warhammer universe in the first place.

>>52712469
Huh. Never noticed that, but you're right. The Slann arms are fucked up.

>>52714429
>But leaving room for speculation was the exact thing that drew me and I am certain many others to the Warhammer universe in the first place.
Without a doubt. Both settings were deliberately written with so fucking many plot threads left open so that the players could come up with their own explanations and ideas. That's why I hated the End Times so much, it stripped all of that out.

Hi guys. What's up with Age Of Sigmar and WHFB? Because FB disappeared from GeeDubs main page, and I've seen a lot of rage towards AoS. What happened?

>>52712469
I really like them, i always found the Slann skinny arms to be unfitting for what's essentially a bloated toad

>>52715449
In case you are not baiting, WHFB got nuked in a series named "The End Times", which railroaded the setting to some "Sigmar's good guys squad" against Chaos, while killing most named characters, forcing some shitty narrative into the setting (Malekith was a good guy all along, Skaven working not only together, but ALLYING with Chaos...) and, in some skubtastic ending, everybody dies

Age of Sigmar is the "continuation" with a new, godawful capeshit setting where everything got renamed for the sake of copyright, with a simple, easy to pick up skirmish game

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_End_Times

>>52715822
>Malekith was a good guy all along
still don't understand what the thought process was there

>>52691903

Right to breed is one of the most valuable things to skaven.

Stormvermin, and any hero-level and above character have them. The frequency and number of females you can breed with also depends on status. The average clanrat COULD be allowed to breed as an exceptional honor or reward to the troops after a particularly good plundering (expecially if the plunder consists of females)

>>52715967
along with all the other halfbaked ideas like incarnates, a shamalylalan style twist was another lazy concept nobody cared enough about to make actually work.

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Been getting back into Warhammer recently. I was working on getting my VC army table-ready but other stuff kind of took over. Last time I posted I was told that Black Knights are more effective in groups of 10 than 5, so I recently bought a second kit. I ended up making some modifications to some of my original models because I wanted them all to fit together just right and not have the duplicate poses be so obvious.

I have to say though, when I got the kit I died a little inside when it came with round bases. Not just because it meant I was going to have to spend more, but more because it just shows more and more that GW wants people to stop playing Fantasy Battle and start playing Age of Shitmar. I am never going to play Age of Shitmar, but if I did I would use square bases because my models are Fantasy Battle models and Fantasy Battle is a square based game.

I just dumped $70 of my tax return on GW's website, including Spirit Hosts for me army and some Daemonettes for my brother, which I'm going to paint up as a birthday gift for him. Looking at GW's prices on some of the models these days kind of makes me depressed though.

I really want to put in another order with Z because there's a ton of more expensive models that I would rather buy as recasts, and I need some recast skeletal steeds so that I can put together the leftover Hexwraith sprues I've had lying around for like 3 years. I'm going to get some Skin Wolves and using them for counts-as Crypt Horrors. Don't care if it's not 100% lore accurate, because my spoopy Halloweenland army deserves some "werewolves." Blood Knights are another model I've been pining for, particularly because Z has them for so cheap (nothing beats fielding a $100 unit that you only paid $28 for). I want to start experimenting with some other armies besides Vampire Counts too, and I think I might start with Dwarfs.

>>52716267
hey anon, I know this sound might common knowledge but ebay is seriously your best friend, both for square bases and for cheap auctions on werhammer.

sorry I can't help with your query though.

>>52716327
eBay is ultimately where I ended up getting my square bases for. They were way cheaper than GW's, and thankfully I didn't have any trouble getting the cement to bind with them. It does miff me that GW doesn't include square bases anymore, though. The rules for AoS say that the base shape doesn't matter, so I can't see why they are taking away the square bases from the people who are buying these models for Fantasy Battle, other than because they are trying to push people to switch to AoS in whatever way they can, even if it's something as dumb as making them pay a few bucks extra to get the right bases off of eBay.

>>52716385
they're also swimming in excess stock of square bases too

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I have a question regarding Flesh Hounds for a Daemon army, or more specifically, what is a good number of them to have for an army between 1500 and 2000 points? They're not expensive as far as point costs go and they generally seem well regarded in the 1d4 article, although the models themselves are quite pricey (obviously not if you buy them from China, though). Is 10 hounds overkill, or is 5 underkill?

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>>52716385
yeah I try not to spend money directly to games workshop anymore as the fuckers have gone too far. I was also referring to picking cheap stuff from auctions. just have to look instead of grabbing things via gw.

>>52716406
I see they've got plenty in stock on their websites, which suggests to me that it's entirely about trying to push fantasy battle players in to Age of Sigmar. It seems like a really petty and underhanded tactic, though. Like, do they really think that the fans who are still playing Fantasy Battle are going to stop and switch to a game they don't like just because they have to buy the bases for some of their models separately?

>>52716464
It's much simpler.
They are gonna stop selling the square bases once they run out of stock.
Packaging them into the kits would make things more complicated.

The truth is GW simply doesn't care about the old WHFB players enough to try and get them to switch.
If that playerbase had made them money to begin with, WHFB would still be around.

>>52716443
I know that some of the chinese sellers sell a pack of like 100 bases for just a few bucks sometimes. Z sells square bases too, although he he never has 25 x 50mm cavalry bases available. Not sure if he ever did. I accidentally bought a bunch of 50x100mm bases from him once thinking they were cavalry bases, and now I have like 10 giant plastic rectangles that I'm never going to use for anything.

>>52716509
could use them as multibases.

Build some funky diorama on them and bolster your troops at the same time.

>>52716504
The WHFB base is still buying models from them though. Just because GW slapped "Age of Sigmar" on the boxes and swapped out the square bases for round ones doesn't mean that all of the models being sold are being sold for Age of Sigmar.

What GW did was especially stupid because Fantasy Battle is having a huge comeback outside of tabletop games due to Total Warhammer's popularity. The game is pretty much a commercial for all the cool models that GW doesn't want to acknowledge have anything to do with Fantasy Battle, to the point that they won't even list characters' names on their website. The Karl Franz model has his name painted right on his banner but they want to pretend he's called "Freeguild General" now, even if that means that someone who played the video game and is looking for the model will have a harder time finding it.

I am convinced that half of GW's staff has crippling autism and that they have some severe beef with the outgoing staff who worked on Fantasy Battle. It's the only way I can make sense of the idiotic things they've been doing with the Fantasy Battle models. They can't take them out of production because replacing them with new products would not be worth the cost, but they want to pretend that they don't exist so badly that they won't even list them on their website using names that anyone is actually going to find.

>>52716577
>The WHFB base is still buying models from them though. Just because GW slapped "Age of Sigmar" on the boxes and swapped out the square bases for round ones doesn't mean that all of the models being sold are being sold for Age of Sigmar.
That may be true, but still, the people buying stuff for WHFB are probably so few in number it barely even matters.

I agree with you that it was a stupid idea to axe the single most recognizable fantasy wargame in existence.
They should have instead just put the rules for Warhammer Skirmish or a version of Path to Glory into the BRB and revised the game in a way that it was playable with fewer models again and therefore easier to get into.

90% of GW profits are probably from people who buy a starter, some paints and a few different models, trying to get into the game.
Veteran players are only useful to them in so far that they give the new guys somebody to play against, but if you aren't buying models you don't ping on their radar.
8th Edition was unplayable for anybody who wasn't already in the game. They killed it themselves, it's not that the market changed or something like that.

They are trying to make money, it's not really something you can hold against them, but they made a lot of really bad, shortsighted decisions because of that.

The complete lack of research or even communication with their customers has them cost more than anything else I think.

Anyway, these days there are so many other games on the market I don't think they can afford to behave that way for much longer. And in the last year or so, since Kirby fucked off, there were some positive changes at least.

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>>52716834
I still hold on to my dilusional hope that Fantasy Battle will return in an official capacity someday. I agree with what you said though, about 8th Edition being difficult to approach for new people. Once you actually understand how to play it it's quite a bit of fun, but if you're completely new to the hobby and you're told you have to buy, assemble and paint a hundred models, it's easy to see why you might be more driven towards a game with a less demanding initial investment.

8th edition was my introduction to Warhammer. Not just Warhammer Fantasy-- the entire war gaming hobby. And wouldn't you know it, just as I was almost done painting my army and getting the hang of the rules, GW comes and kicks me in the balls with Age of Sigmar. I was so pissed off that I ended up taking a break from Warhammer for like a hear and focused on my other hobbies, and it was actually Total Warhammer that inspired me to go back to finish my army and find people to play with again.

After having given me a game that demanded so much of me to get into it, Games Workshop decided to knock down the wall just as I was climbing over it, and I felt pretty bruised afterwards. That's why I root for Age of Sigmar to fail even though I know it probably won't and that I'm being selfish for wanting it to. Canceling the game I had worked hard to learn and was excited about is just about the last thing on earth that would make me want to buy the shit that GW has replaced it with. Maybe Age of Sigmar isn't quite as shitty as they say, but it's too personal for me. I was getting really invested in the lore and characters of Fantasy Battle, but unlike the people who had a lifetime to enjoy it, I had to watch it get snuffed out almost as quickly as I had discovered it, so in regards to Age of Sigmar I say to GW "yeah well fuck you too."

>>52717296
The tl;dr version is I got into war gaming at the worst possible time, and I blame GW for it. They made a mess with 8E and instead of fixing it, they took the nuclear option and screwed over everyone who was a fan of Fantasy Battle.

>>52716437
Considering that you will mostly use them to redirect and/or hunt artillery crews, units of 5 should be enough

I'm sure some actual Chaos player can provide better insight tho

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Temple Guard concept art got released. Wonder if the Lizardmen will get a trailer first.

>>52717568
I was just looking at getting into Lizardmen, and noticed that they no longer sell Carnosaurs outside of start collecting anymore. Seems like a good way to sell the box.

>>52718233
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-SE/mobile/search/searchResults.jsp?Ntt=Carnosaur

They do. The model costs as much as the SC-box though.

>>52718233
It would be. TWW honestly seems to be the 9th edition.

Maybe Karl Franz gets a vision from Sigmar of the End Times and realises he must act quickly to stop the End Times from happening.

>>52718407
Ah. It is no longer available in my country, and I can only assume it soon will be in yours.

>>52718455
Oh, I had never realised untill now that they might not have the same range for countries.

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Does anyone know how were the 1st editions played?

I'm searching for a game with units, but not a lot of them. Maybe 2-3 units of 10 dudes, a monster or two, and a couple of heroes as independent units.

Was Warhammer ever like that?

I also remember there was something called 500 point WH or something like that that had unit sizes cut in half, and you could not take magic items, and it seemed pretty fun

Is there even any point to Daemonettes in Hordes of Chaos? The only think they do better than Warriors is 5M and 5++, otherwise Warriors are the same or better for the same price.

>>52718523
Early warhammer was like this, but it is also an almost entirely different game. 3rd is pretty fun, I would recommend it if you have someone else willing to learn.

>>52718640
I started playing when 5th was ending, and was completely in love with 6th.

I'd play that, but armies are already big, and I don't think I can get my friends to buy that many miniatures.

I'll check out 3rd. Are the books in the OP?

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>>52712469
Yeah, and the skin is too craggy.
I remember seeing the Slann model at Games Day before it was released and it blew me away, just because of how enigmatic and alien it looked. The old GW paint job had solid-coloured eyes too, which completed the effect.

The trailer version looks decent, but too much like Jabba the Hutt and not enough like an unblinking amphibian ayylmao.

>>52717296

This. This, so much.

I started in '96, and I have an enormous love/hate with GW.

>>52718606

Initiative. Reroll to hit. Bewbs.

>>52718850
What reroll to hit? And initiative hardly matters.

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>>52718944

>initiative hardly matters

>>52712469
he's a toad

toads typically have huge, fat arms

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>>52719002
But Slann don't. Which is the point.

>>52718991
We're talking about Hordes of Chaos here.

>>52715643

Even at their fattest, which would be the 5th edition Slann miniatures arms, they still looked long and frog/toad like.

>>52712739 are way too stubby. Makes them look more based on a 600lb human with a toad head slapped on it than an Slann to me.

>>52719002

Compared to their body size toads still have pretty slender limbs.

Besides the fact Slann are FROGS.

>>52718811
>>52712469
>>52712739
>>52714434
Implied but not 100% confirmed that the trailer Slann is Mazdamundi. It's possible that the generic Slann models are more like their TT selves.

>>52720006
Well, the cinematic is outsourced to another company, so the in-game models may look totally different since they're made by different people.

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So here's the Mantic EoD skellie with a TK shield. Future models will have different shields. Quick and easy paintjob, although thankfully my fuckups are mostly hidden by the shield.

>>52715967
It was an excuse to put Elves in one faction.

>Malekith fucked girls in every generation so Dark Elves all have the Curse Of Khaine!
>Khaine dies, Dark Elves good nao!

>>52719202
Exactly.
Its your only major option with good Initiative.

Its literally the reason Elves are OP as fuck in almost every edition, To Hit rerolls and striking first are one of the best things a unit can have.

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>>52716267

> Buy some IoB Elves from eBay.
> Description said 'does not include bases'.
> open it up, has 10 square bases in.
> He doesn't even think squares count as bases anymore...

Yep, it's the moment you realise you're a grognard. Just embrace it anon, I know 100% that WHFB is a better game.

>>52721176
I'm not talking about the 8th edition here, I'm talking about Hordes of Chaos, a book released for the 6th edition.

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>>52720464

That looks pretty damn good anon, giving me hope that Tomb Kings will rise again.

>>52716437

They're used as chaff and shields so two units of 5 would be my choice.

>>52716577

Kirby did have a vendetta against Priestly, he famously told him to piss off once. I do think since Priestly left in 2010 there has been a purge in many departments.

>>52721103
Wasn't part of it also that Tyrion and Co. were corrupted by influence of the Sword of Khaine?

It is a little sad to think Malekith could walk through the flame of Asuryan safely after being rejected by it after all the things he did. Especially since he didn't regret it.

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>>52715822
End Times and Age of Sigmar is the single dumbest thing GW has ever done, hands down. I don't care what stupid shit they do with the lore in 40k, because if you play 40k at least your game is still supported by GW. Age of Sigmar spat in the face of a huge community just because they had bought hundreds of plastic and pewter soldiers, and GW couldn't figure out how to attract new people to the game because they're retards.

Sega and Crative Assembly did a better job selling Fantasy Battle than GW did, an dunfortunately they were indirectly marketing a tabletop game that is out of print aside from the models. Sega even had an exhibition battle of the tabletop game during the launch and had a full tablescape and armies on display at tradeahow booths.

This whole thing has been a shitshow on GW's end and hope someone gets fired over it. Unfortunately all we're ever going to hear is "yeah but AoS sells slightly better than Fantasy Battle." Well no shit. It's a new game that is heavily marketed, while Fantasy Battle was a 30 year old game that GW was not marketing at all until the End Times bullshit started.

If I am a little kid looking for a game with big burly smurfmen that are easy to paint, I am probably going to go with 40k because that's the game everyone has heard of. Age of Sigmar is 40k lite with ASSFAGGOTS aesthetic. I dont see any reason why both games need to exist when 40k already fills the role of being faster and smaller scale than Fantasy Battle, an AoS has absolutely nothing to do with Fantasy Battle aside from appropriating its model line so I don't see how GW considers it a continuation, let alone replacement.

>>52720464
Pretty good looking skelly. How many are you making?

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>>52718801

Yeah they're all in the OP.

If you want to get other people into Warhammer try Regiments of Renown. It's basically a skirmish game where one model acts as it's own unit. Great for learning the rules because they're exactly the same.

Somebody add this to OP next thread.

https://mega.nz/#F!9Lw1WIRZ!eKxkOlAQwuZO3_8pHOK-EQ

>>52722129

Any pictures off those SEGA dioramas?

On some of the behind the scenes stuff for TW:W you can see hundreds of boxes of models behind them that GW must have given CA, they're still in the original red trimmed boxes as well.

>>52673727
I heard there was a cancelled 2nd edition expansion detailing elven and dwaven unique careers that was unfortunately cancelled for some reason. Are there rules in the 1st or 3rd edition detailing the subject matter that I could try porting into 2nd edition?

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>>52722129
I want to remind all the faggots in this thread that are constantly talking up TW:WH of one importamt fact, which is also the exact reason that WHFB games are so dam common right now:

GW sees video games as in direct competition with their actual product. Why do they think this? I dont know. But this has been the case since Kirby, and has only stopped very recently.

With the death of WHFB though, GW no longer had to worry about Vidya competing with a setting that no longer "existed" as a product. Thus, this is why were getting Total War, Vermintide, Man O' War, the Hack N' Slash, etc. Because GW knows that they can "safely" produce these games, without infringing on their actual game.

And lets face it: GW is sorta right about it. For as much as DoW did for GW, plenty of people who would have eventually got into tabletop skipped it entirely in favor of the DoW. But with Fantasy gone, they are free to sell the setting without fear of losing players. And for those few who do make the jump from PC to Tabletop, Age of Sigmar features most of the models shown in the game, along with providing a more Vidya Gamer friendly ruleset.

TL;DR: GW thinks Vidya steals customers. You cant steal customers from a dead game.

>>52724273
They allowed several games about Space Hulk which they still sell, there is also Sanctus Reach which is representation of tabletop 40k.

>>52724273
Why'd they choose to bring Blood Bowl back after the video game came out and sold well though?

>>52721248
>>52722146
Thanks. Got a total of 20 right now to do. Contemplating grabbing one of the army deals from Ebay, they're pretty cheap, comparatively.

>>52724327
Space Hulk had been out of print for years, and even then, was only reintroduced in limited numbers here and there. It coming back is still a recent thing. Sanctus Reach is also a really shitty game, that has nothing to do woth table top, amd only has Orkz and SpacePups in it.

>>52724332
Because they saw the potential for a cheap to make, but profit raking oppertunity. All GW had to do was take the last set of rules they published, spit out two teams, a mat, and some dice, and stick it all in a box. Blood Bowl the vidya was proof that people still liked BB, and definetly proved that people still liked the game.

However, the difference is in scale and scope. If the first Blood Bowl set flopped, it would suck, but it wouldn't be catastrophic. WHFB would require both a revamp, and a retooling, that could very well end badly.

>>52724273

Well they're wrong, people who watch films don't use them as a substitute to books.

Tabletop games and video games scratch different parts of our brain. Anyone who says they skipped on the tabletop because there was a video game alternative probably wouldn't be interested in the former without the latter anyway.

>>52724464
The models for Fantasy Battle are still being manufactured, they just come with the wrong bases. GW just needs to start printing books again and include square bases again, because AOS has no rules for bases anyway. They can stick a sticker on the boxes that says "For Warhammer and Warhammer: Age of Sigmar."

GW could relaunch Warhammer to tie in with one of Sega's new games and even give away free minis as a pre-order bonus an/or as part of a collector's edition. It would be like including a free dime bag of crack with every copy. The reason they won't though is because there's probably some special snowflake high up at GW whose brain baby was Age of Sigmar, and they absolutely despise Fantasy Battle and everything to do with it for whatever autistic reason. GW would rather TWW not even exist but they have to tolerate it not just because of contractual reasons and because it makes so much money, but also because no-one except mobileshite devs will touch AoS with a 10 foot pole. AoS has no brand recognition, retarded lore, and the only reputation it has emanating from the gaming community is that it's a shitty game for kids that killed a much better game that was popular with adults.

>>52724728

All they needed to do was stick with the Warhammer Fantasy IP.

I think people could have learned to live with everything else.

>>52724824
I think people would have still been pissed off if they had turned Fantasy Battle into a skirmish game since Warhammer has always been about ranked units, but having rules in the book for small-scale, more skirmishy battles would have been fine. Some way to play the game that is easier for newcomers.

One of the big problems is that the balancing of the rules requires you to have tons of infantry before you can start using the cool ones. If you walk into a store and see a cool model that you want to buy, do you really want to hear "oh, by the way, if you want to field that thing in-game you're going to have to get at least 60 of these little guys first"? They should have done a much better job striking the balance between accessibility and pushing people to stock up on ranked forces.

A major part of Fantasy Battle is the joy of seeing two big armies of dudes smash against each other and sliding them around the map on movement trays, like a medieval general planning a battle. The problem is that rather than encouraging people to stock up on ranked forces because it's a good way to play, they just baked it into the rules that a large number of your force has to be small units.

If some cocksure rookie wants to field a small force of powerful units with less infantry than his opponent's massive army of troops, he should be allowed to get either trampled by the rape train or prove himself to have an effective asymmetrical strategy.

I'm not a game designer or even a veteran Warhammer player so I don't know the ins-and-outs of what's wrong with 8th edition like a lot of veterans do (I haven't played other versions so I've got nothing to compare it to), but to my understanding the disproportionate requirements for infantry was one of the biggest complaints about 8E. It drove away new players who just wanted to spend a few bucks on a small force to get into the game with. I stuck with it and built up my army out of sheer stubbornness and determination.

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>>52723440
This is the diorama Sega commissioned. It was made by The Terrain Tutor from youtube. He actually did several videos showing his process for building it over several weeks, but he didn't say who the client was in his videos until the end which was a big surprise. I don't have a link to the video at the moment but apparently Sega had it on display at one of the big video game trade shows. I'm pretty sure pic related is at the Creative Assembly offices where they were playing around with it.

So uh hypothetically if an autist wanted to player a tabletop game with plastic miniatures with stranger, where would they go and how would they do it?

>>52725342
The strange thing I've always thought about in regards to AoS is the tunnel vision of it's creation in relation to the rest of their business.

No-one can deny that 40k is and always will be GW's big seller. 40k is a "skirmish" game (Games of the size GW are trying to sell cannot be called skirmishes) and fills the desire many have for relatively freeform slugging matches between two armies.

WHFB is a completely different style of game, being more structured and restrictive in what you can do, this has increasingly had a smaller customer base as the "40k method" is easier to get into.

The problem with AoS for me personally is that it is just too similar to 40k, chances are, most of their potential customers have already played 40k in some manner and so, when looking for another game to branch out into, they're unlikely to choose one so similar, especially when it's made by the same company.

>>52724824
This.
Why the fuck couldn't they just been satisfied with a less cataclysmic and more metaphoric take on the end times?
Instead of destroying the world it would've been well enough if the end result was just the destruction of the civilisation of the old world which lead to a new Dark Age where Chaos Warbands dominate the northern parts since the forces of Chaos, after crushing the empire, quickly succumbed to infighting due to the death/ascension of Archaon. The uncountable horde is thus fragmented into varying sizes of warbands/individual armies who are busy fighting each other for glory and control of the lands formerly belonging to the Empire etc. New kingdoms would arise from the ashes of the empire as powerful chaos warlords,break away skaven-factions,humans, greenskins, undead lords, ogre tribes and elves carve out their new domains and establishes alliances on this new page in the history of the old world. Meanwhile the Lizardmen, utterly demoralised by the seeming failure of prophecy x seek a new meaning with their existance which some Slann's claims necessitates a more hands on-approach to the other races.
Heck even the smaller size of a AoS-game would be justified fluff-wise due to the shortage of manpower and military capability of these new and smaller powers. Warhammer Fantasy could've been kept around without further direct support as an option for people who want to depict the few colossal battles that still would've taken place in the world.

>>52724698
THIS.

I got into 40k from watching my uncle play Dawn of War, I never would have come across the hobby if it wasn't for the videogames as there wasn't even a GW store within 50 miles until a year ago.

And the whole Dawn of War thing shits on the "Buh-but GW don't want games of their current franchises" because it's been going strong for years with their full blessing,hell go back far enough and you have shit like Shadow of the Horned Rat and Dark Omen, games based on WHFB that were made back when the game was still very popular. Those games were basically copy paste from the tabletop.

>>52725466
Join one of the local clubs perhaps? As long as you are reasonably functioning during a game I see no reason why people would be unwelcoming towards you. They are there to have a good time doing what they like and as long you are not an utter trainwreck you shouldn't be able fuck things up too much. Remember people want to have someone to play with. They are not looking for a life-partner or best friend.

>>52725466
Look up what game shops and comic shops are in your area. Drive around asking if they play Warhammer and say you're a beginner. If it seems like somewhere you'd like to try playing, buy something even if it's just a comic or some snacks, because it's always a good idea to build a rapport with the shop.

Unfortunately if you're uncomfortable talking to strangers, war gaming can be a tough nut to crack into because it's a very social activity, You might just find it brings you out a bit more though, which is a good thing.

>>52725569
GW's model is completely backwards which is why they only have one stable property. The point of having a diverse portfolio of assets is that you have different products that appeal to different niches. GW's model has been to eliminate all the diversity from their portfolio, focus more on 40k, and replace their second most popular game with a game that is basically dumbed down 40k.

We call that "redundancy" and "oversaturation." If the point was to replace Fantasy Battle with something more like 40k, then pretty soon the only game GW is going to have will be 40k. Running an entire company around managing one brand is a recipe for disaster but that's where GW is going to find themselves eventually if they keep going like this.

The appeal of Fantasy Battle was that it was like a historical game with fantastical elements. It had many of the cool parts of historical gaming, but without any of the restrictions that came with the historical setting, like a perfect mash up between Lord of the Rings and The History Channel. The fact that it was different from 40k helped give GW's offerings a lot of variety. Now instead of a choice between formation-based fantasy battles and fast sci-fi skirmishes, we have a choice between 40k and 40k's retarded little brother.

Is there any more lore about the Ropsmenn of Kislev? I'm very curious about them, but they go almost unmentioned in most lore.

>>52726573
>Ropsmenn
Not sure what that is, but most Kislev material is probably to be found in stuff surrounding the Storm of Chaos campaign.
GW had Kislevite models and an armylist for them back then.
They're not really featured prominently elsewhere afaik.

The Felix and Gotrek novel that introduced Ulrika had them travel through Kislev though.

>>52726688
They were an ethnic group in Kislev, alongside the Godspars and the Ungols. Their last battle against the Ungols fascinates me. Bits of lore about Praag and such makes me think they must still exist.

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ropsmenn

>>52726722
Mh, sounds like a reference to a historic precedent maybe.
I don't recognize it, but that might be worth investigating.

>>52725419

It's kind of cool but... a little underwhelming. The castle looks too barren, it just looks like cardboard sprayed grey, which is probably what it is. I like the cliffs though.

>>52725419
>>52726835

What a total smeghead, whoevers set that up has got the armies the wrong way around.

>>52725342

The problems with 8th were so complex and had been stored up over so many editions that sweeping the board clean with a KoW or skirmish system was probably not a terrible idea in my opinion.

The only way to make 8th work would be if GW totally changed their approach to designing models, instead of 'high quality' expensive figures they would have needed a Warlord approach, where each figure is 1 - 2 pieces and can be sold in boxes of 20 - 30.

So rather than doing this changing to a skirmish system wasn't total madness.

>>52726901
Changing to a skirmish system is retarded because Fantasy Battle is not a skirmish game. That would be like changing 40k to a ranked combat game with movement trays.

One thing that the problem boils down to is that Games Workshop wants to sell their models for ridiculous prices, which means that at $5 a pop a unit of 20 soldiers would end up costing $100. I would never pay $100 for 20 skeletons and Games Workshop realizes this, but that's likely part of why they wanted to get rid of Fantasy Battle altogether-- they want to fleece their customers for as much moolah as they can and give them as little in return as possible, and it's a lot easier to do that with a skirmish game like 40k than it is with a game like Fantasy Battle.

It was either give customers a better deal, or give them a bad deal and dress it up with a new game and a new system, and they chose the latter. Pretty much everything GW does these days is motivated by pure greed. They're the Gamestop of tabletop games.

>>52727045

It's not retarded at all, one system (skirmish) continues to be very popular and requires less models, the other (rank and file) has declined in popularity.

Look at Games Workshops competitors, out of all of them only Mantic and Warlord offer rank and flank games and the latter is mainly historic anyway.

You've basically refuted your own point anyway. To make Fantasy work GW would have to invalidate their entire way of business, if Fantasy models got cheaper people would expect the same of 40K. Much easier for them to just change Fantasies' rules and leave the rest of the business the same.

Even if they did totally change their business, 8th edition needed a massive overhaul anyway.

Personally I would have gone for a system similar to KoW with an AoS skirmish game in the BRB. Then people would be encouraged to still buy models on individual bases.

>>52727129
Games Workshop raises their prices every year because they want to milk they die-hard fans, but then they abandoned Fantasy Battle because the die-hard fans were running out of models they wanted to buy and Games Workshop had done nothing to attract new players to the game. They want to have two Warhammer 40ks, but as we've already discussed in this thread there is absolutely no reason to have a second 40k. People who want 40k are going to play 40k, and if they want something else they aren't going to buy a clone of 40k from the same company with dumbed down rules.

If GW was doing the purely business savvy thing they would have just canceled Warhammer and said "that's it we're done." They chose to insult us by offering a "replacement game" in the form of AoS, though. I'd be content to just keep playing Fantasy Battle indefinitely even if GW never released 9th edition, but because they want to push AoS that means they have to push the Fantasy Battle community out.

The right move to do, if GW wanted to keep a fantasy game on the shelves, would have been to examine Fantasy Battle and consider how they can improve the rank-and-file wargame to make it more accessible and affordable. One idea that pops to mind is re-balancing infantry to reducing a typical force size from 20 soldiers to 10. This would make the game more approachable to newcomers because it means less models to make to get started, and it wouldn't piss off the older fans. Now instead of having 1 unit of 20 soldiers, you have 2 units of 10 and they're still viable. All you'd need is new movement trays, and you can cover a lot more of the battlefield with your army.

>>52720464
that's actually alright

nothing amazing, but definitely better than the way Mantic make it look

>>52727280

I agree that GW did nothing to help Fantasy by gouging the old fan base, but if people didn't like similar games then why are so many Warmachine, Hordes, Bolt Action, X-wing players former 40K players and vice versa?

Cancelling Fantasy altogether would not have made business sense. They had a catalogue of nearly 900 kits with moulds that cost hundreds of thousands. They've already put the capital in and they'll only get it back by actually using them to produce models.

I agree that they should have stuck with it and tried to fix Fantasy but my original point was that I can understand why they chose to go gown the skirmish path.

>>52724273
>plenty of people who would have eventually got into tabletop skipped it entirely in favor of the DoW
I completely disagree. It's entirely anecdotal, but Dawn of War was exactly how me and my mates got into tabletop wargaming. We had no idea what the fuck Warhammer was until playing Dawn of War but we all picked up a few boxes of models within a few months of the game coming out.

>>52727409

I'll just add to this that I'm only talking about the mechanics of the game.

AoS's world is fucking horrible and dropping the Fantasy IP was the huge mistake they made.

Be glad though, if they kept Fantasy they would be forcing flying spacedwarfs into the setting now and making 9th edition skubtastic as fuck.

>>52673727
So to stop all the age of shitmar balking, and armchair economics, I have a question:

Why the hell do Skaven take non-skaven slaves? I mean, it has been stated time and time again that Skaven are the most numerous race on the planet, and that their broodmothers pump out hundreds of thousands of ratlings. So why take slaves at all? None of the other races seem like good choices.
Orks are too big and strong, and might as well just kill them.
Goblins and Dark Elves are too tricky, and would make Skaven paranoid as fuck.
Humans are just Skaven that are saner, and work better together.
Elves are too fast, and are too arrogant to serve literal rats.
Dwarves are too stubborn, and would never work for Skaven.


So the question is, why do Skaven take slaves, when they could just pressgang more skaven?

>>52727409
>Warmachine, Hordes, Bolt Action, X-wing

None of those games are from Games Workshop, for starters. In the long term AoS is at best only going to cannibalize 40k's customer base, if it doesn't die outright.

>>52727520

What does being part of GW have anything to do with it?

Loads of companies have multiple successful but similar games such as Battlefront, Privateer Press and Warlord.

>>52727431
Space Marine is what actually piqued my interest in Warhammer initially. It was a fun game and the world seemed interesting, which got me looking into the game. Ironically though the game I really became interested in was Fantasy Battle, in no small part because when I started asking my IRL friends about Warhammer I found out they were into Fantasy Battle more than 40k, so it made sense to get a Fantasy Battle army.

>>52727561
Warmachine, Hordes, Bolt Action, and X-wing are Games Workshop's competition. One of the appeal factors to those games is that they are an alternative to Games Workshop's games. AoS is essentially GW competing with themselves, and if someone is at GW looking for a skirmish game chances are they are going to want the one that they're famous for and isn't shit.

>>52727583

I seriously doubt one of the reasons people play these games are because they're not made by Games Workshop.

More likely is that they prefer the rules (skirmish games can have a lot of variation), the models, the price, the size of the game etc etc.

Take Battlefront as a good example, Flames of War and Team Yankee use the same rule set and TY, which came after, has been hugely successful.