GURPSGEN: >The Generic Universal RolePlaying System, or

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>>52648524

We're using the robot stats from Reign of Steel in a setting where a similar robot revolt apocalypse occurred but with the twist that a transhumanist country managed to hold off obliterate their rouge machines and then exiled themselves into space. After some decades had passed these posthumans then decided to send down soldiers to save what remains of biological humanity.

The below is a rough sketch for what the mind upload exile soldiers will "wear" as they militantly end their self imposed diaspora.

Machina Angel (TL 11(^) ) [960]

Bodies worn by Space faring Posthuman soldiers in their war with the rouge machines on Earth.
Attributes: ST+10 [100]; DX+4 [80]; HT+4 [40].

Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: None.

Advantages: Absolute Direction [5]; Ambidexterity [5]; Appearance (Transcendent) [20]; Chameleon 3 (Extended, Infravision, and Ultravision, +40%) [21]; Detect (Radio, Lasers, and Radar; Signal Detection, +0%) [20]; Discriminatory Hearing [15]; Doesn’t Breathe [20]; Doesn’t Eat or Drink [10]; DR 30 (outer layer) (Ablative, -80%) [30]; DR 60 [300]; Extra Attack 1 [25]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Hyperspectral Vision [25]; Enhanced Tracking 1 [5]; Machine [25]; Perfect Balance [15]; Protected Senses (Hearing & Vision) [10]; Sealed [15]; Silence 1 [5]; Super Jump 2 [20]; Telecommunication (Radio (TL 11^); Sensie, +80%; Secure, +20%) [20]; Telekinesis 30 (Requires a functioning Internal Gravity control device, -20%; Super SCEINCE!, -10%) [105]; Telescopic Vision 5 [25]; Temperature Tolerance 20 (-85° to 210°) [20]; Ultrahearing [5]; Vacuum Support [5].


Perk: Accessory (TL 11(^) genius Microframe computer) [1]


Disadvantages: Electrical [-20]; Maintenance (one person, monthly) [-2];

Features: Nano-Skin (TL 11(^) synthetic skill which is indistinguishable from flesh to normal sensors/unaided human perception).

>>52648606

Tl;dr: Eclipse Phase meets Reign of Steel.

>>52648524
>GURPS settings
Eberron DND setting as seen by semi cinematic, magic as powers, no gunpowder high Renaissance game
I still don't quite know how to emulate the omnipresent magic items, but the few times I ran it peeps had fun.

>>52648524
After the end meets Monster hunters, but the second one's more for theme than material. Most everything supernatural came from the spirit world, an event destroyed the spirit world in it's entirety, and the feedback pretty much wrecked the world. Now humans and non-humans are equally rare and near extinction!

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>>52648606
>transcendentally beautiful combat angel
>will do everything it can to fight for you
B-be still my heart.
Heh, I'd turn into a flustered, stuttering wreck

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Question:
In my ultra-tech setting, I've ruled that force screens (which are rare, and never conformal---i.e. always "shell"-like") trigger the detonation of shaped-charge or other explosive warheads.
In the case of EFPs, the armor divisor goes away (as even 20cm or so is enough for the EFP to disperse irl), and HE warheads with a significant linked-damage component also triggers here.
(For balance, force screens are rare, and do not give as much flat DR as given in Ultra-Tech.)

How should I rule the resulting penetrating debris/dispersed molten metal EFP/projectile?
Should I just say that force screens have 1-3 levels of Hardened against EFP warheads?
What are your thoughts?

(I just thought the idea of someone in a heavy battlesuit having their force screen detonate a shaped-charge warhead some two yards away and subsequently shrugging of a rain of molten metal and jet of projectile debris would be hella cool)

>>52650842
(Immediately after typing this, I got the idea of military tech adapting to this by developing two-stage shaped-charge warheads. Would be kind of neat. Dual-staged EFP shell. The sound of it pounding through a force screen, then immediately afterwards going off on the vehicle/battlesuit itself would probably be both cool and characteristic.)

>>52648524
What's that?
MEME general?

gurps is and old pile of convoluted trash. The only reason it even continues to exist is to power it's own meme of being "good".

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>>52650973
nigga have you forgotten to breathe lately?

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>>52650973

>>52648524
I brutalized Warcraft into GURPS. At least all the races.

Magic is the big concern now.

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>>52648524

Well, I've added Catgirls, Doggirls and Helldog girls to banestorm.

One reason why I did it was because the game takes place in 2017 and I needed something to happen between 2005-2017. So why not have the banestorm throw Catgirls into the setting?

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>>52648524
I've been running a setting, Grimwyrd, for about a year now, which is the equivalent of rolling on a few 2nd Ed DND tables and just moving on with the results.

I put [dwarf fortress dorfs] , [wow elves], and generic humans in a world with [Warhammer chaos Beastmen] and then built a world around that. It's been vaguely successful.

>>52650973
Your slanderous acronym doesn't even have the same number of letters as GURPS, you stupid cow.

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Gearhead who building own quadcopters and rc-cars and rc-tachikoma.
Are ATE2 invention system is enough to create such kind of guy in Late TL8/Early TL9 world?
How define cost for such type of gadget from market i.e for wallmart-level thrash or Apple Inc. i-luxury?

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>>52652675
Don't forget using IKEA glasses to turn hand grenades into the aerial bombs for your drone.

Honestly, I wouldn't even use invention rules for building weaponry out of off-the-shelf products. It's not like you're inventing a quadrocopter from scratch, you're just combining and modifying existing stuff.

>>52648606
You should add something to hide yourself from Scanning Senses, like Obscure (Radar; Defensive +50%, Stealthy +100%, No Area Effect -50%) [4/level].

Also, you may need to add Increased Range to Telecommunication if your home base is in space.

>>52653003

Thanks.

>>52648606
Jesus, I want that thing as my wif-
>Maintenance (one person, monthly) [-2]
Oh.. Fuck. Oh well.

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>>52651830
It's been running more then a year, feels a touch more then vaguely successful to me.

>WOW elves
Well, the whole mana addicted edgelord elves makes more sense now.

>>52653329

IIRC, as long as it has the skills, it can perform maintenance on itself.

>>52648606

I'd add a few gadgets as accessories - if you can fit a nanofabricator or swarm hive inside, it'd do a lot for its long-term endurance.

You could probably upgrade the Radio to Gravity Wave Comms - as the TK uses a gravity control device. That would make it virtually impossible for the Zoneminds to detect.

Catfall and Control Gravity (as an alt ability to TK) would also be justified by that - more for enabling crazy stunts than combat.

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>>52653425
>elves
Although I love Tolkien's take on elves (which spurred the entire "elves are OP"-stereotype), I love settings where elves are no more than forest-living leaf-apes.
No grand, shining white ancient ruins or elders wielding cosmic powers, nor any vast plot-knowledge about anything. Just another type of society who likes living in the woods, slightly more in touch with nature.

On the other hand, I can never pump and glorify dwarves enough in my campaigns (and the players love it)

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>>52653934
I prefer Dwarves like pic related.

Stockpileing food, weapons and precious metals in great underground vaults because they think Shit is going to Go Down. All focused on survival, self reliance and defense.

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>>52654344
Heh, yeah that's a neat concept. Heavily militarized (and dangerous as fuck if they actually sortie one of their armies, which rarely happens due to them rather keeping to themselves in their fortified citadels and caverns).

Also, I never liked the trope about dwarves being somehow incompetent with "ordinary" magic, or "unmagical"
I like it more when dwarves focus on other kinds of magic by choice, thus meaning it's cultural rather than something innate.
Meaning you -do- have dwarven wizards and sorcerers. ...Only that things like golemsmithing, runic enchanting, ceremonial throat-song catalyzed spellforging and whatnot is all more appealing to them because of their curious, scientific and industrious nature.

I really love how the Elder Scrolls did it.

If I wanted to play a delta-green esque game, where players are special forces fighting supernatural monsters, any particular books i should use?
Take in account we're all quite new, so I'd want it simple.

main problem would be making monsters as for rules we can just use lite.

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Obviously, concealment isn't always cover. Case in point: your average sofa isn't going to be stopping much of anything that's sharp or moving at very high velocities.

If a PC hero jumps behind a conveniently handy opaque sofa (as the vast majority tend to be), anyone shooting at him from a perspective where they cannot see him at all will be at a whopping -10 to hit.

However, I find it curious that a baddie can rake this piece of furniture from end to end with a barrage of 9mm Parabellum from his MP5A3 and completely miss our hero who is hiding behind it. This outcome makes the object's DR 0 something of a non-issue when it goes up against bullets.

Am I missing a key piece of information that ought to be factored into the above scenario?

>>52655246
Powers gives you OPTIONS for power/character design. Horror does some of the work for you. There are some pre-made baddies in various Pyramid issues that may help, but I can't think of any specifics.

>>52655472
Alright!
Any options for weaponry( Think 1950 up to now)? I want to give them simplicity on combat at the start but have more options with weapons.

>>52655451
1) If you know the hex the target is in, the penalty drops by a significant amount.
2) Overpenetration is handled differently.
3) If you can't see the target due to cover, they can't see you; thus, no active defenses, meaning any hit is a good hit.
4) I don't really use high-RoF weapons in my games, but I *think* cover fire/spray-and-pray ignores to-hit penalties.

#1 is covered at the beginning of the "special situations" chapter or whatever it's called when it goes over visibility rules. #2 and #4 are covered in the same chapter when talking about firearms. #3 is most rules implications.

>>52655502
High-Tech, or it's children High-Tech Pulp/Adventure Guns.

>>52655451
If you know where your target is, not being able to see them only gives -4 to hit. (B394)

>>52655558
Also, if they can't see you, then they're at -4 to Dodge in addition to any penalties for lying down or crouching, so it's actually easier to shoot someone hiding behind a couch than someone who isn't.

>>52654503
Elder scrolls is an amazing place to dig for lore/inspiration. The elder scrolls Dwarven civ is gone though.

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>>52655895
Maybe in YOUR world.
In mine they kept going, and developed gunpowder. Formal steam engines are just the pin in The fancy hat(bristling with spikes of the finest quality).

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>>52655547
>>52655558

By that logic, it makes sense to never lie down parallel to the couch unless a situation forces you to.

You are better off crouching down, as the shooter will have a one in two or *maybe* a one in three change of guessing your correct position (hex).

>>52655895
>TES lore
It's the single fantasy setting I know with the most comprehensive and most sophisticated lore.
(I read every single book and dialogue option in Morrowind. ..and did it again with Oblivion. ..and Skyrim. I love it.)

>dwemer gone
Imho, that only makes it cooler! (Although meeting Yagrum was neat)

>>52656776
Not him, but you have a point; I can't find/recall any advantage to lying down in such a scenario, as opposed to merely kneeling.
..Though granted, would it really give a person enough of a reduction in profile to warrant a game-mechanical advantage?
(I'm sure some of the rulelords can answer this)

>>52656682
Nice, sounds vaguely like warhammer fantasy dwarves when you put it that way.

>>52657011
As far as I know, the only time you'd want to lie down in combat is when you're doing a Dodge and Drop or you want to lie down behind some really low cover.

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>>52657142
Hmm yeah, I agree.

Also,
>fragmentation
>"The fragments attack everyone
else in the area at skill 15. Only three
modifiers apply: the range modifier
for the distance from the center of the
blast to the target, the modifier for the
target’s posture (prone, etc.), and the
target’s Size Modifier."
Let's assume for a moment that a person within range of an explosion with fragmentation doesn't Dodge and Drop, but already (pre-emptively) have dropped flat to the ground.
What would be the final modifiers to the fragmentation roll here, besides range, given a SM+0 subject?

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>>52658167
Ah, I found it, I think.
This also ties in to the "sofa-shooting" scenario mentioned earlier:
The game-mechanical advantages of lying down (contra kneeling or crouching) lies in that the attacker gets an additional -2 to hit your torso, and cannot hit your groin, legs or feet (nor face, neck or eyes if you keep your head down).

So that's a flat -2 for the reduced profile, and another -2 for attacking "your torso as if it were half exposed", for a total of -4?
Not too shabby, whether behind a sofa being fired upon, or some six yards away from a frag grenade.

>>52653852
>IIRC, as long as it has the skills, it can perform maintenance on itself.

Oy vey, in that case things might work out.
I wonder what it would be like, though, having a being like that as a significant other.

I love Sorcery!

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There was a discussion on Mass Combat last thread. Someone was asking about special superiority.
Things like Artillery don't contribute directly to TS (Troop strength), only to special class superiority. What wasn't stated or clear in the last thread is what that does. It's simple, if you have superiority you get a bonus.

>>52655547
4) I don't really use high-RoF weapons in my games, but I *think* cover fire/spray-and-pray ignores to-hit penalties.

Suppressive fire does ignore all penalties for target visibility. You attack 2 or more hexes, and everything in them, visibility be damned, you have walls of lead.

>>52659430
Given an invisible/concealed target, and you know it's in one of two adjacent hexes:
Could you also do Spraying Fire to attack two separate hexes as "targets"?
I wonder if that would be more or less effective than Suppression Firing on the two hexes.

>>52653852
>>52653329
>>52650354


Keep in mind that this thing is going to be operated by the whole brain emulation of some woman's brain; a heavily augmented brain emulation but one none the same. So either make sure the operating mind won't be a bitch or replace her with a non-volitional AI.

>>52653852

How much 'rape' should this gynoid be able to inflict upon the forces of the Zoneminds? Also note that these mind upload solders will be using all the TL 11(^) weaponry they can get their mechanical hands on.

Could she take out an AU-05 Redjack android in single, unarmed, combat?

>>52658288
>what it would be like, though, having a being like that as a significant other.

That would depend on who or what mind is being run by its computer.

>>52648606
>Version 1.5


Machina Angel (TL 11(^) ) [1,068]

Bodies worn by Space faring Posthuman soldiers in their war with the rouge machines on Earth.
Attributes: ST+10 [100]; DX+4 [80]; HT+4 [40].

Secondary Characteristic Modifiers: None.

Advantages: Absolute Direction [5]; Ambidexterity [5]; Appearance (Transcendent) [20]; Catfall [10]; Chameleon 3 (Extended, Infravision, and Ultravision, +40%) [21]; Detect (Radio, Lasers, and Radar; Signal Detection, +0%) [20]; Discriminatory Hearing [15]; Doesn’t Breathe [20]; Doesn’t Eat or Drink [10]; DR 30 (outer layer) (Ablative, -80%) [30]; DR 60 [300]; Ehanced Move (Ground) [20]; Extra Attack 1 [25]; Gunslinger [25]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Hyperspectral Vision [25]; Enhanced Tracking 1 [5]; Machine [25]; Obscure 4 (Radar; Defensive +50%, Stealthy +100%, No Area Effect -50%) [16]; Perfect Balance [15]; Protected Senses (Hearing & Vision) [10]; Sealed [15]; Silence 1 [5]; Super Jump 2 [20]; Telecommunication (Gravity-Ripple Comm, 100,000 miles) [32]; Telecommunication (Radio (TL 11^); Sensie, +80%; Secure, +20%) [20]; Telekinesis 30 (Requires a functioning Internal Gravity control device, -20%; Super SCEINCE!, -10%) [105]; Telescopic Vision 5 [25]; Temperature Tolerance 20 (-85° to 210°) [20]; Ultrahearing [5]; Vacuum Support [5].


Perk: Accessory (TL 11(^) genius Microframe computer) [1]; Accessory (TL 11(^) Internal Gravity Control device) [1]; Accessory (4 TL 11 Repair nanoswarms) [4].


Disadvantages: Electrical [-20]; Maintenance (one person, monthly) [-2];

Features: Nano-Skin (TL 11(^) synthetic skill which is indistinguishable from flesh to normal sensors/unaided human perception).

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>>52660224
>>52660540
True..
Isn't it a weirdly beautiful thought, though? Living with and loving someone whose digitalized mind is far off somewhere. Maybe they were ugly in real life. If you knew this (having seen a photo or something), would it affect the relationship in any way?
Maybe living like that, through such a body, would be absolutely wonderful for such a being. Despite having access to VR sims or not, she would still relish the thought if it being -real-, perhaps.

>>52660524
>GURPS' harshly realistic take on armed combat
>TL11^ weaponry, sensors and targeting
J-jesus christ.. barring certain flavourful tech-tweaks on the setting, I'm afraid confrontations would not only span several kilometres most of the time, but would also be over in a couple seconds.

>>52660753
>J-jesus christ.. barring certain flavourful tech-tweaks on the setting, I'm afraid confrontations would not only span several kilometres most of the time, but would also be over in a couple seconds.

The only ones who have TL 11^ gear are the few mind upload soldiers from Space. So, then, would I be correct in guessing that the first few battles will be hilariously one-sided until the PCs run out of ammo and have to start using the stuff used by both the (meat-bag) human resistance and Zonemind drones?

What about single, unarmed, combat between this gynoid body ( >>52660705 ) and a AU-05 Redjack?

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>>52660839
Well.. I'd say you should probably limit certain weapon types (chalk it up to manufacturing difficulties, which isn't too much of a stretch really: nanoforging a 25mm homing SEFOP round isn't easy, after all, let alone graviton cannons or field-jacketed x-ray strike lasers that can melt a robot from a thousand miles away).

>battles one-sided until run out of ammo
Yep! Pretty much. Although to avoid the severe "drop" in combat tempo and tone (which might make some players a bit pissy), you should probablyrestrict equipment from the start (explain things away as either manufactoring-, logistics- or even science-related).
Luckily, the setting gives you pretty good control of equipment: the gynoid will have to use what she finds (or manages to repurpose).
As long as the opposing robots' equipment is balanced(that is, deliberately underpowered), it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
(I don't know the setting, but you could give the enemy robots TL9/10 weaponry, restricting any shaped-charges and highly armor penetrating weapons with some explanation).
Just keep in mind that robots are TOUGH AS HELL. (The iconic robot example char from the Basic Set is 1665 points. ..and it's not a very big or high-tech one.)
Some scaling down of their features might be necessary for the gynoid to be able to even dent them.
(Anyway, sorry, I write too much)

>single, unarmed combat
I don't know what an AU-05 Redjack is, sorry. (Tried googling it, but couldn't find anything)
It probably wouldn't be very entertaining: With the gynoid's DR 60, the enemy would have to have something armor penetrating to hurt her
(and probably vice versa too. ....even though the enemy robot might probably be strong enough. Robots are STRONK, after all. ST 30-50 wouldn't be a reach for a SM+1/+2 bot.)

If I shooting braced AR from moving car with driver who have skill-14, will my shooting skill capped to his, or I just cap my Acc related bonuses to car stability rating and get penalty from road quality?

>>52661545
It only caps if you're the driver. Doesn't stability only count to prevent crashes?

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>>52661252
>>52650842

Got to say that I like high DR, Ranged-Attack only Force Fields for high TL combat. It makes getting close and tearing things apart in close combat a rather more valid option.

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>>52662211
Heh, yep, me too. (As long as it doesn't feel too "Dune"-ish and baroque, that is)

In one of the Space-settings I ran, force screens all had the Velocity variant, and were always (hemi-)spherical. Also, they were practically immoveable in atmospheres (moving them faster than a crawl in atmosphere caused them to overheat/short-circuit), so they were kind of siege screens.
(But yeah, I agree!)

Incidentally, what do you think of the "force-screen-prematurely-detonates-EFP-warhead" thought?

Another interesting thought is how the ballistics of an active/volatile dynamic warhead would be affected by multiple concentric layers of force screens. (Say, 3-5 layers with only moderate--20 to 30 DR--each.)
Game-mechanically it's simple enough, I suppose.. but I wonder much more efficient it would be irl, than a single-layered screen with DR equal to the combined layers.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6j9wEF1sf8)

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>>52662371
I think EFP warheads vs shields could make for an interesting way to do things. It could also help justify people wearing battle armor and shields, just to protect them from sprays of unfocused but dangerous molten copper or shattered bits of bullets that pass though the shields.

Layered shields are an interesting idea, as they could simulate spaced armor, IRL a very, very effective way to defeat Monroe Effect weapons.

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>>52658257

You have to add on a further -4 to the attacker's attack roll if they cannot see you but do know where you are. If my Dodge score is presently terrible (as the case might be when i'm wearing body armor or carrying equipment I can't drop), you bet your ass i'm taking cover behind the nearest opaque piece of scenery. -6 to all ranged attack rolls coming your way is nothing to sneeze at.

Should anyone cares for more details, the author of GURPS Tactical Shooting has this to say in the following link. There are spoilers within, so i'll copy and paste the relevant portion.

https://shootingdiceblog.wordpress.com/2016/11/03/tactical-shooting-street-kings/#

"-5 (completely behind cover)

...

[Ordinarily, the penalty for shooting at someone completely behind cover is -10. However, the fridge is not much larger than the man behind it, so it makes sense to considerably reduce the penalty.]"

He seems to support the -10 figure, or at least -5.

>>52648524
Is there a detailed table of benchmark difficulty numbers for different skills for GURPS?

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>>52662516
Interesting.. I forgot about the -2 from shooting through light cover.
So in total (a ranged attack on someone lying prone behind a toppled sofa, disregarding range):
-2 (Shooting through light cover) -2 (Target is lying down), -4 (Cannot see foe, but knows location to within 1 yd) = -8 to skill.
Also, take note that adjusted skill here cannot exceed 9 (due to "Cannot see foe").

However, the original "attacker" in this thought experiment was fragmentation.. And as I quoted in
>>52658167
only three modifiers apply when rolling for fragmentation hit: range (which we'll disregard), posture and SM (here +0).
A fragmentation-causing explosive will roll with a penalty of -2. 15 - 2 = 13.

Compare a -8 for a sentient, deliberate shooter against -2 for random shrapnel.
Is this too large a discrepancy?
(Then again, I suppose the fragmentation roll is abstracted, representing multiple fragments.)

---

>>52662516
>"[Ordinarily, the penalty for shooting at someone completely behind cover is -10. However, the fridge is not much larger than the man behind it, so it makes sense to considerably reduce the penalty.]""
That's an interesting twist.. but a bit weirdly interpreted, I think? RAW for visibility-dependent ranged attack modifiers in Campaigns is:
>"Cannot see foe: -6, or -4 if you know
his location to within 1 yard*"

Also, he does this weird thing:
>"[Ordinarily, the penalty for the skull hit location is -7 (p. B399), but since there is really nothing else visible from Ludlow’s position, it has been halved.]"
Huh. Also an interesting tweak, but odd. A hit location is equally hard to hit no matter which other hit locations are visible, after all.

God damn.. I absolutely loved reading that. ..the explanations and handy page-references and everything. Thanks!

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>>52663043
Damn, I missed this:
>"If your foe is completely
concealed by cover, you suffer the
usual penalty for shooting blind, typically
-10."

Well, I found the weirdness, and the reason for my confusion, I think. Pic related.

Summarized: Which is correct when shooting someone completely behind cover?
-10 for "shooting blind"
or
-6/-4 for "Cannot see foe"

>>52663173
-10 seems to be the way to go.
-6/-4 seems to be focus around shooting "invisible" characters that you can't see but don't have cover protecting them. I'd guess the difference is that it is harder to shoot past cover than to hit the full body of someone invisible.

>>52663173
It's referring to 'hiding behind shit' (-10) as opposed to 'invisible enemy' (-6) as opposed to 'hidden but known location' such as 'he dropped a smoke bomb but actually has nowhere to go' (-4).

It's not that hard.

>>52663237
>>52663267
Hmm, yeah I agree. -6/-4 seems to presuppose that nothing is between you and your target.

I still think -10 for complete cover, even when you know the hex/location (as with the fridge and sofa) is a bit harsh, though. I can definitely see why the dude in the article halved it.

>>52663043
>So in total (a ranged attack on someone lying prone behind a toppled sofa, disregarding range): -2 (Shooting through light cover) -2 (Target is lying down), -4 (Cannot see foe, but knows location to within 1 yd) = -8 to skill.Also, take note that adjusted skill here cannot exceed 9 (due to "Cannot see foe").
But what if i want to plain choose that sofa as my target and just hoping to shoot someone behind it by overpenetration?
Doesnt things getting better coz now i get +sofa SM to to have a total +SM to my roll instead -8?

>only three modifiers apply when rolling for fragmentation hit: range (which we'll disregard), posture and SM (here +0).
If source of fragments was mid-air/above target so it is possible to they to ignore target posture.

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>Setting bullshit
>In GURPSGEN

>>52663403
>shoot someone using sofa as target-proxy
Damn.
I don't think it would work, though, since (from the rules on "Hitting the Wrong Target"
>"Combatants who are kneeling or lying
down are not in the way unless you,
too, are at their level"
Which means you'd have to lie down first lol

(Then you you'd probably end up rolling against 9, which is the max)

>>52662371
>>52662401
>Reactive force screen countermeasure
>3 DR forcefield blinks on for the few milliseconds it takes for the incoming warhead's fuse to trigger
damn that's a cool concept. Would probably look pretty neat too

>>52660753
>pic
Is that.. Is that an Accretian?

>>52663237
Shouldn't be the DR of the cover the matter instead of the roll to hit?

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>>52662371

Should be pretty effective - though dedicated laser turrets are pretty effective at their role, they could be overwhelmed more easily than a flickering screen or wide-angle force-beam.

How hard would it be to adapt Banestorm to Dungeon Fantasy? I'm thinking of advancing the setting a decade during which Megalos has descended into civil war. Should offer lots of opportunities for adventure...

>>52650895
Two stage shaped-charge warheads are already a thing, developed for defeating ERA.

>>52648524
Will GURPS Dicworld 4th edition ever be scanned?

>>52664094
Both matters, it seems. It is hard to hit someone you can't see through cover.

>>52655246
The Monster Hunters series would be a good start, although I wouldn't use the character templates. At 400pts, they're a bit too cinematic for DG. I'd probably use the Action 4: Specialists book for characters, and decide the point limit and therefore the number of skill sets.

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Atypical question... or rather typical, since it involves a fuckload of tinkering.

How to - if it's possible at all - create a spell capable of stripping target(s) from understanding given language or human speech at all?

One of my players asked for this, and I honestly have no idea how to even start with this one, while it undoubtably would be very useful utility spell. So while I don't have anything against the idea itself, I'm not sure how to create one.

>>52667189
Magic system? As a base, I would have the spell inflict a disadvantage worth [-6] since that's how much it costs to buy a new language at full native fluency, but I don't know how that'd translate to whatever system you're using.

>>52667246
Basic with few bits of Sorcery.

>>52662901
Ya. I'll post it when I get home.

>>52667382
>Basic
Yeesh, yeah inventing Basic spells is basically guesswork. Sorcery is easy enough--it's Affliction--but you'll need to check Thaumatology for the anemic guideline on spell invention.

>>52668148
Um... pages, please? Besides, we are planning to abandon Basic completely anyway, as it's more trouble than help.

>>52668401
If you want to invent spells, you are better off with RPM or Sorcery (depending on your playstyle). In fact, one of the Pyramid articles had Ritual Powers addon to RPM which allows you to combine both. But do note that both systems require some assembly.

>>52655246
If you like DG, I think you'd like GURPS Horror - the Madness Dossier. It's pretty cool.

>>52668401
I'm a filthy phone poster right now; once I get back to my computer, I'll find the page numbers. I then they're at the end of the first chapter.

>>52667189
Make an Affliction that gives the target Cannot Speak [-15], Deafness (Accessibility: Only for understanding spoken language, -50%) [-10], and Dyslexia [-10].

>>52667559
Fantastic!

I look forward to seeing it. The more examples, the better.

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>>52653934
My planned low-(i.e. no-)fantasy setting's elves are going to be primitive jungle-dwellers, practicing horticulture and hunting game.
Their elfness comes from their close relationship with nature (and their pointy ears, of course): in their long, matted hair grow various species of fungi and plants (moss/lichen) with whom they co-evolved in a symbiotic relationship. These produce a natural insect-repellant that allowed the elves to comfortably survive in environments swamped with mosquitoes, malaria and other such threats.
In fact, their tribal identities revolve not around descent and blood-ties, but about their hair-flora—tribes differ slightly in what grows in their hair, and they may further cultivate different flowering plants on their heads for adornment.

They are also skilled at making herbal remedies, and all this combined makes them rather long-lived by the setting's premodern standards; though they often have to fend off attacks by jungle-goblins (basically better monkeys), and sometimes each other.

Maybe I'll throw in one or two more advanced (but still primitive) elven petty kingdoms on the fringes of the rainforest, dunno.

There aren't going to be any elves in the setting's distant not!Europe though, as I can't think of a good ecological niche for them that humans wouldn't eventually have taken over.

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>>52671049
Now I forgot the question I wanted to ask along with that post:
Any GURPS supplements that detail the mechanics for disease? And are these satisfactory?
I want tropical diseases to play a role in my setting, major enough at least that players will need to prepare for it. At the same time, it doesn't seem fun to be randomly stung by a mosquito and then your character dies or is out of commission for weeks.

>>52671184
There's probably something in After the End 2.

>>52671049
I love your take on elves. The concept could work well even in a mid-/-high-fantasy setting, in my opinion.

Just be careful you don't take the hairflora-shtick too far. Singular, interesting aspects of exotic races/cultures are cool if handled subtly, but it quickly becomes tacky if too central/monumental or overly elaborated upon.
Have it as one of many such interesting aspects of the race (the players will find hairplants/hairyculture just as interesting even if you don't base the entire race around it)).

>>52671184
Oh man, making up diseases is fun!
I've never read what >>52672024 mentions, but you can do a whole lot by just tweaking and fixing based on the rules from Campaigns.
You can make a disease that does just about anything, really, and which works in whatever way you deem fitting.
(..It takes a bit of "feel" for the rules, though, to avoid a disease becoming overly dangerous. See if you can find some example diseases for inspiration.)

I'd suggest no "boolean" able/disabled diseases, but rather slowly accumulating and worsening symptoms.

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>>52671049
(Also, that's a neat and inspirational picture. Borneo always makes me think of space elevators, lol)
It also makes me want to play Crysis again, for some reason

So i'm running a post-apoc type game and the players will be able to skin animals and tan their hides. About how long should this take using the brain oil method for tanning?

>>52672024
>>52672611
I checked out After the End 2. These mechanics seem pretty solid, though I'll have to tweak them slightly to suit the Low-Tech scenario, of course. This plus custom diseases should do the job, thanks!

>Just be careful you don't take the hairflora-shtick too far. Singular, interesting aspects of exotic races/cultures are cool if handled subtly, but it quickly becomes tacky if too central/monumental or overly elaborated upon.
>Have it as one of many such interesting aspects of the race (the players will find hairplants/hairyculture just as interesting even if you don't base the entire race around it)).
Given how primitive they are, there won't be that many more interesting things going on, other than nice treehouses and what have you. Though I'm going to flesh out other aspects of them too, though mostly minor things. Women and children for example would wear giant fan-like fabrics, with one end attached to a bracelet, and the other to a belt. If they encounter a dangerous animal (like a tiger), they could raise their arms to appear taller—this would unfold the fan-sleeves and reveal a scary face painted on them, in a bid to scare off the animal.

>>52673577
Heh, that sounds cool as hell (and I'm not just saying that as someone anti-elf-biased)

No matter what you end up with, I hope you have fun

>>52672611
I agree about the schtik; less is more

Grimwyrd elves are Mana dependant. They starve 1 hp a day in a dead zone. I never brought it up in game until recently, the players made a dead Mana zone in half the continent, and had to escape to have their elf Archer survive.

There was a big oh shit moment. Good times.

>>52674072
Heh, didn't know that about Grimwyrd elves. Sounds inter-
>players made a Dead Mana zone the size of half a continent
J-j-jesus
What power level is this?

(The thought of using such a tactic to force an entire elven civilization to relocate is cool though)

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>>52674108
Ah well, the players didn't know that would EXACTLY happen, but it was a side effect of the ancient superweapon killing all the Beastmen. [Redacted] them from the world.

The thing was powered off a tangenal interrupt siphon aligned with an elder evil. IT did a bit of urgibg, they were in a tough spot, the previous owner left the engine running and the keys in the door... I don't blame them for ending all life in the Southlands.

>>52674108
we accidentally an eldritch nuke

it didn't come with a manual, we just pressed buttons

sorry

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>>52674373
Hey like I said
Not completely your fault ;)

Just wait for the fallout tho...

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>>52674302
>>52674373
Sounds funny as hell.

I've actually never played a high-fantasy "grand/epic" or dungeon fantasy game in GURPS.
We're all so thoroughly in love with ultra-harsh and gritty fantasy that we're only playing that. (..when we're not playing sci-fi campaigns, that is)
I'd love to try it out with a good GM.

Interestingly, covering the width of North America with a Drain Mana spell would cost around 21 500 energy or so, and take an hour of casting (if cast normally). Doable with crazy ceremonial casting, an absolutely ludicrous Cone of Power, or possibly as a GM-allowed extension of Ensorcel, cast as an enchantment (making it possible to Slow-'n-Sure it).

>>52674530
Yeah the game is less of a high fantasy, and more of grim with big damn heroes mixed in. Though I will admit, a year of weekly sessions has inflated folks to about 300 points now...

And Thank you for rechecking my math! They were engineering the ritual with a massive mountain sized ley line intersection as well as several miles of magic circles. Siphoning divine power too. No personal investment aside from needing magery/magic talent to press the button

>>52674530
I've got a roving plot journal up, about 1/4 complete so far, on my gaming WordPress

https://kendelyzer.wordpress.com

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>>52674584
>math
Oh, no no, I was just curious (I didn't assume your players cast it themselves or anything. That would be some pretty epic wizardry!)

>bordering 300 points
Yeah.. We're kind of doing the same in our most beloved TL3 dark/gritty fantasy group..
The GM's been stingy as hell with the points (in fact, we've encouraged him to!), but we've been playing with this group for seven or eight years now..
My god, there's so many internal jokes and references and stories lol. You probably know how it is. Love groups like that.

>>52674710
Ooh, neat. I'll check it out, thanks

>>52674530
>High-energy mana calculations and theoretical applications
damnit, this is going to have me poring over every Magic and Thaumatology book yet again isn't it
Too much fun

So am I wrong in thinking Path magic with a side of Realms is a good match for a Dresden Files game?

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>>52675843
No, that should work great. Most people that aren't White Councle level will have to get by with charms and small effects done in makeshift circles, but that's suited to the source.

>>52674814
Grimwyld's been going a year now IRL and has had the characters gain considerable power. None of them are perfectly optimized or anything, but all are quite strong.

>>52675843
Jesus, just reading your post made me mentally erect.
God damnit now I want to play in a setting like that.

>>52676107
>long time campaign
>characters unoptimized
Hehe, that's the best thing about starting out low. The characters end up having actual character, instead of being optimized combat-tactic-in-a-can.
There's this transplanar fantasy campaign I'm GM'ing. Set in an interplanar metropolis kind of like Sigil (from Planescape: Torment), only bigger, and with more clockwork and steampunk.
The characters are quite powerful--at 350 points--but at the start of the campaign, I had them make their characters as 100-point characters (they were energy drained from having been imprisoned in a necromantic siphoning vault for a long time).
After they'd escaped (and did some adventuring in the slums), I very quickly gave them lots of points quickly, until they finally had "regained their lost strength".
It lead to the characters being very balanced and more "spread out", as it were. Worked really well, and the players got a good feel for their characters.

>>52667559
Target number benchmarks?

>>52676271
I dunno about the group of the guy you're responding to, but years of D&D has me in the habit of planning out a detailed character advancement plan for my characters that covers like, a years worth of gameplay.

For dnd, for instance, I typically plan out every level from 1-20 before session 1.

>>52677719
Heh, yeah, I did the same when we played D&D 3rd/3.5 (and eventually, Pathfinder).
Luckily, with GURPS, most players tend to favour more "natural" and gradual point distribution, especially if you're a bit stingy with the points.

The danger isn't really big scary and expensive advantages, since you easily limit those as a GM. ..the danger is in the player characters becoming two-dimensional and minmaxes.

Really gradually played characters round out so well over a long time, heh. Like, one point in Expert Skill (Chess) here, one point in Dancing there, four points in Wrestling Art (because he absolutely loves to put on mock "fights" with his friend to dazzle the hell out of bystanders). Things like that.

>Unkillable doesn't prevent you from being killed
>Honesty doesn't prevent you from lying
>Actors don't use the Acting skill

What were they thinking?

>>52678547
>>52678547
Unkillable 1 requires you be reduced to ash or hamburger before you're out; you may very well be alive still, but you aren't going to be doing much in that state.

Acting and Honesty are harder to defend, admittedly.

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>tfw the nice NPC girl is given Discriminatory Smell & Taste and suddenly the world is a vast ocean of heartbreakingly good food

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>>52678547
UK 2 and 3 prevent you from being killed, full stop.

Honesty is a really weird disadvantage and is badly named. It's more a personality type then anything else.

Actors do use acting. It's how you fake emotions.

>>52677719
I can't imagine being able to plan that far ahead. With Grimwyld I'd have been lost in any case. What I need changes all the time and there's always some new challenge that I want to adapt to.

>>52678725
>reduced to ash or hamburger
Or get couple shots from rifle.

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>>52678767
>tfw something in both your post and picture made me miss my gf something bad

>>52678826
>UK 2 and 3 prevent you from being killed, full stop.
Lol, but no, with UK 3 you can be killed. But you can rise back from dead as self, or as ghost or as unspeakable horror, but you can be killed as usual.

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>>52678912
We're professionals so we keep it clean but god save me the temptation to realm

>>52678924
Read the book, dumbass. You fall unconscious and became whatever incorporeal thing is appropriate in your setting. You aren't dead and you don't "rise back from dead".
Once again, unconscious doesn't equal dead.

>>52678547

>Unkillable does make you unkillable as in you never truly die. At Unkillable 1 you only die if your body is completely destroyed, and at Unkillable 3 means you turn into a spirit when your body is completely destroyed that reappears somewhere when you heal to full HP.

>Honesty is only related to the law. "An honest citizen." You want Truthfulness.

>Actors don't use the Acting skill because Acting in the context of GURPS is trickery, like playing dead, making someone think you're a CEO of a company, pretending to be a hobo to get free food. Thus Performance, in the context of GURPS, is specifically for acting as a trade.

Nice try there, pal. Solid effort.

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>>52678924
>As ususal

You don't make HT rolls vs Death and stay alive until -10x HP rather then -5. If you have a very high level of Hard to Subdue, HT, Berserk or some power that keeps you from getting knocked out you can take an order of magnitude more damage then most people.

If you get 'killed' at that point is more philosophical then anything else, and depends on how you define death. You don't cease to be, and depending on how your UK works. If your mutant healing factor or nanobots are rebuilding you then you really aren't 'dead' even if your vital functions are suspended.

>>52678871
Yeah, humans should be treated as homogeneous for gun damage once dead and for the purpose of dismembering. A .223 won't blow a limb off, it's a fucking glorified varmint round.

>>52679212
>Yeah, humans should be treated as homogeneous for gun damage once dead and for the purpose of dismembering
I agree.
Both in the case of Unkillable 1 and Supernatural Durability, there should be some rule specifying that from a certain -HP point on, only "structural damage" matters, meaning injury modifiers would have to perform as with Homogenous targets.

>>52677719
This habit is, of course, formed because of needing to meet prerequisites and having to plan it in advance.

Eventually it turns into wanting to know how your character will perform and in what ways, over the course of a campaign.

>>52678924
I don't know about you, but reaching -10xHP, and THEN turning into something incorporeal that cannot be hurt with normal means until you reach full HP, which results in you reappearing in your full normal flesh with all your memories, skills, and traits intact seems pretty unkillable to me.

Besides, if your GM is allowing you to take Unkillable 3, he shouldn't have any qualms about letting you take +50 HP and stupid levels of Hard to Kill in conjunction.

How come for the spell Tanglefoot in Sorcery the limitation Reduced Duration 1/180 is applied if 1/60 makes a one minute effect last one second?

>>52680009
do you really need hard to kill with unkillable 3? you're not making any HT rolls against death. i'd just take some extra HT and something like very rapid healing or regeneration to at least half the time it takes to reform.

>>52680323
That's a much better alternative.

>>52680322
Fixed Duration, +0% makes it last "average" time, which is 3 minutes, so 1/60 would reduce it to 3 seconds.

>>52680323
Do you want to be trully unfucking killable or not?

>>52680347
Thanks anon!

How should a GURPS gunfight combat go?

I mean the atyack abilities an tricks I should kbow generally; IE use feint, dont just spam full attack, lower enemy defenses

>>52680684
They should start some distance away, and if you're a GM, make perception checks for everyone to actually spot enemies (+10 to spot things in plain sight.)

Newfag question - can you dodge projectiles? As in - arrows, bolts and bullets?

>>52680954
Yes, you can dodge arros and bolts, and yes, you can 'dodge' bullets, too, but this is more of an abstraction in regards to how difficult it is to hit someone that is conscious that they might get shot. During a shootout lots of things about a person's profile can change suddenly even if they can't feasibly react fast enough to 'dodge', and you can miss a relatively 'easy' shot simply because the target took a step in the right milisecond. I think Tactical Shooting has more to say about that (and knowing the book's commitment to stone-cold realism, probably an optional rule to disable this as well).

>>52681092
I'm mostly interested with arrows and bolts, due to running Spring and Autumn Period campaign, but that means lots and lots of arrows to dodge

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>>52680954

It's more that you dodge the shooter - like in the movies, when the hero sees the "stealthy" sniper's bright red laser dot on his chest and drops to the ground just as they pull the trigger.

For Matrix-style dodges, Gun Fu provides.

>>52681179
Interesting, but I'd rather rule it as a form of temporal ATR-like Super-effort instead of costing CP.

>>52681265

Yeah - there's a rule somewhere else (a pyramid, perhaps) that turns it into a proper advantage.

IIRC, in Impulse Buys, it offers a bunch of things you can spend CP on for instant-effects. And there's an advantage giving a virtual pool of CP you can use instead of actual CP.

It's a bit roundabout, and should have just been a default option, but it does the job.

>>52680684
Cover and suppression fire is the norm. All specific shots should be Aimed.

>>52681538
>All shots should be Aimed from prone
Here, ttfy

>>52681761
I feel "braced" is better advice than "prone"; going prone is an easy way to brace your gun, but most cover also lets you safely brace.

>>52682041
Prone can be done any time. Braced only when you have a cover in the first place.

But other than that, both are good

Guise, neither Mars Attack, nor Discworld, have pdfs, right?

>>52683802
Correct. Gotta support the devs of you want that extra-niche product.

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I made a graph of defaults. It is kinda big. I scaled it down to fit on 4chan's upload limits. I think I should redo it with some colors, but not sure what.

>>52686382
[screaning eternally]

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>>52686382
There are much cleaner ways to do that Anon, but this may be the funniest.

>>52686420
Ah, this just seemed like the easiest that I could come up with in an hour of coding. What would you have used?

>>52686382
Could you throw the .dot on a pastebin?

>>52686775
https://pastebin.com/7v569f53
It's hard for humans to read because I named the nodes based on the hash of the text in the node.
https://pastebin.com/xq178TeR
This is the code I wrote to generate it, it uses the gcs xml file.

>>52686841
Thanks boss!

>>52686382
What's the fucking purpose of shit like this, aside then some other idiot picking it up and using it as "GURPS is hard" meming?

When using Teeth (MA115) to grapple, does damage to a limb stop at HP/2 as if it were crippled?

>>52681092
Yeah there's a rule where you can only dodge if you called that you want to evade a specific gunman, and only that gunman *at any point before the end of your turn*.

For instance, Billy starts his turn and says that he wants to evade John's pistol. Billy does his Attack. On John's turn, he fires at Billy, who is allowed to dodge. After John's turn, Tim decides to fire on Billy, but Billy only specified to evade John, so Tim has only his skill and outside factors (cover, distance, etc.) to worry about in hitting Billy.

If Billy DIDN'T call that he wanted to evade John during his turn, then if John had shot Billy, Billy couldn't say "I want to evade John." Billy's turn is spent.

>>52686382
Idiots are going to take this image and say "woah look how hard GURPS is!" without realizing what they're looking at! Now we're never going to be taken seriously!

>>52686964
I thought it was fun to make, I thought it looked kinda cool when I finally got it so that the lines and nodes weren't overlapping and, and I was just wondering what it might look like, because I've never seen a comprehensive resource of all the default modifiers anywhere.

It's obviously not a useful visual aid in the end, but it looks cooler than a spreadsheet.

>>52686964
Reminds me of those "rules compilation" images that are supposed to "help" people with the rules, like the shotgun one. It's just bad publicity for GURPS to post things like that.

>>52687626
You already have to be at least knee deep into the spectrum to even think about playing GURPS so I don't see the problem with the picture

>>52687343
It's retarded and you are most likely perfectly aware of it, but you've still posted it. Congratu-fucking-lations, you fucking idiot.

>>52687626
That's why I question the hell it's even supposed to be. Not only it serves zero practical purpose, it's actively helping "GURPS is hard" meme.

>>52687697
The problem, you fucking moron, is that not only GURPS player visit GURPSGEN. The infamous shotgun rule complilation was also made by and fro GURPS players. Guess what happens when shit like your retarded graph gets posted out of context.
Not that there is any, but congrats for fucking things harder than they were before.

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>>52687744
>appealing to random normies is gud
>lets shit talk a member of the GURPS community because he did thing i don't like
wow I sure want to be part of GURPSgen now

>>52687744

Is it wrong I took an interest to GURPS because of the long skill lists, on top of the classless system? Granted my first tabletop was Savage Worlds. Compared to that, I liked how disadvantages were flexible and the options beyond just hitting stuff.

>>52687845
This might shock you, but the fact GURPS doesn't appeal to random normies is the very reason why it's so fucking niche. It doesn't make it good or better. It just makes it harder to find players for it.
So wow, I'm sure the "GURPS is hard" memefags will gladly take your shit graph.
A graph that literally serves no purpose, but guess it's American daytime hours, so the "participation is all that matters" mentality is also at play here.

>>52687960
Gee anon, maybe you could find 3-5 more people to play with regularly if you weren't such an abrasive asshole, or maybe even convert some friends over to GURPS, you do have friends right anon?

>>52676107
>No, that should work great. Most people that aren't White Councle level will have to get by with charms and small effects done in makeshift circles, but that's suited to the source.

Yeah, I'm thinking many levelled realms, with more emphasis on how much oomph and control you can put into it rather than new abilities/binary control and creation.

Question is, how many realms? Harry runs on 5, but we know The Outside is a thing, and there seems to be a death realm, or using death magic to fuel realms, do they then count as 5 more?

>>52676271
Thank you, I do too.

>>52687868
You're allowed to like things, anon. It's okay.

A reason GURPS is great is because it gives options. Having a large advantage/disadvantage/skill list makes that possible. Having an in-depth and realistic combat system makes that possible. Having every trait be discrete with its own effects and point allotment makes that possible. And the best part is that you can ignore most of those options, and the game still works well without them.

For combat, I like having a minimum of Campaign's Combat chapter being in use, plus hit locations and a map to move tokens on. Some people can't stand anything more than GURPS Lite, and some people can't stand anything less than full-tilt Tactical Combat.

We're still playing the same game at the end of the day, though, which is what's really cool about GURPS. Almost everything you need or could want is already provided, take it or leave it. The system works at all resolutions.

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>>52687626

Creator of one of those images here. These are created so that a person interested in a specific set of rules or character type (the shotgunner, the dual-wielder, the sniper, etc) can have them all at hand without having to look through multiple books.

I don't give a crap about people so overly sensitive that they're worried someone who was already predisposed towards bashing GURPS is going to use any of these images as ammunition against the system. All of their complaints (some valid, many invalid) have been used before.

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>>52689035
That image reminds of those crazy corkboards that conspiracy theorists in shows have. It looks like nonsense to the viewer, but to the madman it's all so clear.

>>52689175

Admittedly, the formatting could be significantly improved. Heck, I may revise it one day (I still have the .PSD on hand). However, it at least contains all the critical rules on dual-wielding.

>>52689035
Somehow, this is formatted worse than the documents it cribs from

I feel that is a laudable achievement, somehow

>>52689400

Thank you. You are welcome to improve upon it if you wish.

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>>52689484
You sound like you've never slung shit from the internet before

>>52689035
>I don't care I'm feeding trolls
>I don't care my infographs are useless on their own
Have you at least heard about PDF format?

>>52689035
This is useful for me, though I can see why it's overwhelming for a new or stupid person.

>>52686540
Trees. This is fun though. I don't think it can be used for play because the lines are a bit much, but it's fun.

>>52690607
He's actually autistic. He was told that they contain all the relevant information when he showed them off, but that they where formatted in such a way to be absolute aids. He responded by throwing a fit and refusing to change them, but still share them, and someone else downloaded them to shitpost about GURPS for a while.

The Shotgun one though is a legitimate fuckshow.

>>52690917

If you're going to make claims about what someone did or didn't say, you ought to back them up.

This whole stupid cycle of infighting/blame shifting is why I rarely comment here.

>>52690746

Thank you. My main goal was to get all the information in one place. I may eventually add a subsection that lists the exact supplements these excerpts were pulled form.

>>52691260
It's in the archives. There aren't that many GURPS generals to look through.

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>>52690846
The tree output is kinda hard to read as well, in my opinion, but here's a screenshot to give an idea (I've started trying to add some color to make it easier to read since the modifiers were completely lost in the wires)

I like the concentric circle layouts because the information uses space better, but I have a small idea that might make the tree layout present a little nicer...

Good God, GURPS is concentrated math autism. Good thing I'm sticking to my Pathfinder/Dark Heresy group.

>>52690607
>>52690917
>>52691442
can you either stop being so personally invested in memes or just leave already

>>52691516
It's not a meme, when it's true. If the system is literally unplayable, it deserves this treatment. SJGames should learn a thing from WotC, Paizo, Green Ronin, and other major companies.

>>52691608
ok

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>>52691608

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>>52686382
Haha, neat!
That's not very useful, but hella cool

>>52691673
>>52691651
Sure showed me

>>52691678
Exactly what I was going for. I thought it would be helpful to visualize it, so outta curiosity, I tried, and found out that it is a very very unusable inforgraphic, but nonetheless, amusing to look at. I like emergent systems and seeing how a small collection of simple rules can create a very complex web from nothing, and trying to associate meaning to clumps, though I don't think there is any to be found.


And its disingenuous to say it is a GURPS problem (or a problem at all;) a very complicated graph could be generated from several different popular RPGs, or anything else. I'm sure a complicated lineage and relationship diagram could be spun up from a D&D bestiary, or a flowchart showing the absolute mathematically optimal strategy for a gridded combat at any given time, but I like GURPS, so I make graphs for GURPS.

>>52686382

I like how the Mechanic and Engineer Skills are orbiting the mass as if they were electrons.

>>52689035
Neat. Might just use this for newbies, to give them something they can quickly look up. Thanks!
You should consider remaking as a pdf, though. And perhaps moving things around a bit to make it more tidy.
(Ignore the saltfags.)

>>52691260
>cycle of infighting
Yeah.. Although I love GURPS and GURPS players, this is what happens when you squeeze arrogant underachieving neckbeards believing they're smarter than everyone else into one thread.
If there's one thing driving new potential players away, it's the saltiness and trigger-happiness of the overreacting saltfags in these threads.

>>52691411
Try horizontal branching instead. It'll fit the skill name text boxes better.

>>52691759
Nice. Things like that are fun and educational to make, anyway.
Keep at it! It's interesting/fun, and you end up with some stuff that can help people out.

>>52691678
How would you stat Ramiel?

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>>52691759

"
And its disingenuous to say it is a GURPS problem (or a problem at all;) a very complicated graph could be generated from several different popular RPGs"

Precisely.

>>52692029
>If there's one thing driving new potential players away, it's the saltiness and trigger-happiness of the overreacting saltfags in these threads.
I dunno man, occasional shitflinging bouts aside, GURPSgen is generally nice and helpful.

Also, I don't think this thread meaningfully contributes to new players for GURPS, one way or another, since /t/g is a very small community in the grand scheme of things and this thread is a very small part of that small community. People who come here either already play GURPS or just come to troll.

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>>52692127

There are new players/GMs that wander in from time to time.

>>52692044
Oy vey

SM+10
ST 400 or so.
DX 10
IQ 14
HT 12

Burning Attack 45 (Explosive; Damage Multiplier (x10); Increased Range (x500); Takes Extra Time (+3); Takes Recharge (5 seconds); Variable) [4388]
Haha, god damn
(Also, I suppose it would have to be able to use this attack to Power Parry. Maybe make it a Jet or high-RoF attack instead?)

Damage Resistance 400 (Hardened 1; tough Skin) [1600]

No Manipulators and Quadriplegic

Haha, no idea, man, but considering the scale of things in that settings, it would have to be some pretty crazy point values

>>52692127
>People who come here either already play GURPS or just come to troll
Yeah.. I suppose. At least mostly (there's always the odd new player, but I suppose they know well they're heading into a 4Chan thread)

Also, the threads ARE nice from time to time, you're right about that.

>>52692263

How about Terror? It being an absolutely perfect octahedron ought to be terrifying to anyone bright enough to grasp the implications.

>>52692371
Holy shit, Terror would be fitting (that unnerving eerie sound it constantly makes)

Also,
Morph (Mass Conservation; Unliving Forms Only; Pseudo-Cosmetic (Almost purely cosmetic, but can "move around" up to +3/-3 to various attacks/defenses) (-30%?)) [50[

I don't quite know how to stat extreme form changing. Maybe with some three or four Alternate Forms, and the rest is Morph (Cosmetic, Mass Conversion; Unliving Forms Only)?

Anyone has infographics for shotguns/rifles/snipers/etc...?

>>52692567

There is one for shotguns...somewhere. I was considering making an inforgraphic that covers sniping, but i'm unsure whether it ought cover only firearms, only bows/crossbows, or both modern *and* archaic ranged weapons.

>>52691608
Simply not true. What part of rolling 3 six-sided dice and comparing the result to a fixed number is hard?

>>52693471
Come on, this is like saying that what part of drawing a card is hard in poker. Even Aria plays better than GURPS just because it actually plays at all.

Ok anons, I have an odd question.

My group have been wanting to try out different systems for a couple of quick games to see how we like them. Since gurps seems to have rules for everything, we wanted to know if we could run a campaign off an old honestly ridiculous/probably cringy story we created way back in high school. Mainly to get a few laughs out of it.

The story included but was not limited to: ghosts, a guy who could punt mini vans, a person who controlled cold, salt mancers/golem, exaggerated sword play, ludicrous explosions, communist dinosaurs, space travel, a supreme Court case, and an eldritch dragon fight above a sky scraper.

We were wondering if it was possible to simulate most or any of these things, and if so what would be good books to start with.

>>52665020
Speaking of this, I've always wondered: how in the fuck did GURPS: Discworld come about? What the fuck was the conversation?

Did STP just come up to Steve and go "hey, wanna write a book?"

It frankly seems like a bizarre setting to make an RPG around

>>52686382
AHAHAHA! YOU DAMN FREAKIN AWESOME!

>>52693703
Basic Set. Always start with the Basic Set as it is so easy to drown in options if you immediately add other books without having the basics down pat. As for specifics...
>Ghosts
Insubstantially, probably Telekinesis for poltergeist effects or Possession for spooky exorcisms.
>Punting minivans
*Really* high ST and knockback rules. I know this goes against what I just said, but check out Super Strength from GURPS: Supers, or maybe/also a few Pyramid articles that rework high-level ST (in general, after about ST 20 or so, you see a major drop off in your investment; going from ST 10 to ST 14 is huge, from ST 14 to 18 is impressive, 18 to 22 is noticeable, and 22 to 24 is meh).
>Control cold
Depends on specifics, but you can probably get by with flavors of Innate Attacks, Afflictions, and Temperature Control.
>Salty Golems
Golems have a host of traits (Injury Tolerance: Homogenous is the main one), and the ability to control salt will once again probably be covered by Innate Attacks and Afflictions.
>Exaggerated swordplay
Get up to Broadsword-22 and you start seeing some insane shit.
>Dragons
Snag a statblock from either Dragons or Fantasy

Everything else is basically fluff.

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>>52677719
>>52677988
>>52678826
>>52679794
This is related to something I've been thinking about lately.

One criticism I've seen of GURPS (and which I agree with) is that characters don't really feel like they "grow". They start out fairly competent, because building a competent character is possible on pretty much any budget.

The problem is, if you want to keep the same concept for your character, you're more or less stuck incrementing a few key stats and abilities, maybe taking some key advantages.

Compare this to D&D. I'm running a 5e campaign, and the only thing I like about it is the look on my player's faces when they level up. They're always so happy to unlock their new power which let's them be even more effective at what they do.

Now you can make up a bunch of powers for characters to take, but I don't think this solves the problem. When you look at 5e classes, a lot of the powers are superficially unrelated to each other. Take the monk (my personal favorite class). What does punching have to do with running up walls and across water really fast? Not much, really. Yeah, it helps with mobility, and it's a kung fu trope, but I feel like most players wouldn't just come up with these things themselves.

Anyone else feel this way? I do think this is a legitimate problem. Yeah, you could argue players should be more imaginative, but I think this makes it harder to run high point/long running campaigns.

That's why I lowered the starting point to 100/-25 and then awarded a few more points than suggested for the college club I'm in.

>>52691411
You could reduce the number of edges by a lot if you didn't have vertices for IQ or DX. Instead, give vertices that default to attributes a special background or border color depending on the attribute.

>>52659322
>Things like Artillery don't contribute directly to TS (Troop strength)
Except Sieges.

>>52693980
Do you have much experience with
-Dungeon Fantasy (specifcially DF11: Power-Ups)?
-Action 4: Specialists?
-Pointless Slaying and Looting/Pointless Monster Hunting?

Those three titles show different types of "level-up"-style character progression. DF11 removes custom advantages and techniques and replaces them with specific powerups PCs pick from a list based on their template/class. A4:S has players build there characters with 25-point packages and suggests having PCs continue using the packages system to "level up" every few adventures. The Pointless series totally ditches the concept of points in favor of abilities and ability slots and is very friendly to the "level up" mentality.

>>52693980
Maybe you could use time dilation. Instead of running adventures separated by just a few weeks, imagine that the careers of the PCs last for years or decades. The intervening time allows room for the PCs to get more than just a few points after each adventure.

>Captcha: ROAD ROAD

>>52693980

Is this issue emblematic of what GURPS in particular is, or is it a trait of most if not all point-buy systems?

Seems to be a problem with most point-buy systems, in my experience.

>>52693703
Dude, even though GURPS can emulate anything, it doesn't mean that you should go for a ridiculous and bizarre campaign, just because the system can handle it.
Crazy and bizarre, cinematic and high-powered stuff is also more complicated, and not very good for learning a new system.
What do you usually play (and enjoy most)? Fantasy? Modern Fantasy? Cyberpunk? Sci-fi?
My suggestion is to take your favourite kind of setting/group, and see how GURPS handles it.
If you like it, go on to more crazy stuff (if people want to, that is. Crazy =/= automatic fun, after all).
If not, play the system people are already familiar with and like.

>>52694545

A good way to test the waters of GURPS is to create "low-fi" supers. Instead of a guy that can kick minivans, start with a guy that can punch through rock without busting his hands. Instead of a master of cold, try out a guy that can project a short range jet of ice that does...icy things.

>>52694452

Mini meta-trait packages could be one way to ameliorate this issue. A "level" in "Monk" could be:

Karate +2 [8]
Meditation at Will [4]
Striking ST +2 (Unarmed Only, -20%) [8]
DR 1 (Tough Skin, -40%) [3]

Pile on the requisite fluff and name/structure the Meta-Trait to make it genuinely come across as a new plus *distinct* plateau of advancement.

>>52694723
That's almost what Pointless slaying and looting is: an article with a bunch of 20 point packages that you buy all at once. Someone mentioned it earlier.

>>52693980
>>52694384
This is a thing with all point-buy systems, really.. The characters don't power up in sudden leaps, and the enjoyment you get from powering up suddenly and with a leap is more immediately apparent than doing so gradually, so ti's an illusion thing. (But yeah, still an interesting issue.)

Lots of ways around it, though. Mostly, it's up to the GM, who can give players incentives for saving up to certain bigger advantages or powers
("Ever since you were french-kissed by that amorous shoggoth, you feel as though there's some latent power inside of you. You feel as though you probably could unlock it with some mental exercises. You can now buy this modified variant of Warp when you have the points. ..oh, and you can also take Xenophilia now, if you feel like you could play it out.")

Bottom line: It's the players who need to have a vision about their character. ..and often, this entails deliberately NOT having your character develop along preset lines, but rather dynamically in response to things happening in-game. (This is a lot more fun too. A friend of mine once got two crit successes in a row when dancing in a tavern. He ended up buying Dancing and making it a thing with his character, even though he wasn't good at it at all.)

>>52655246
Don't actually make the monsters. Just assign them combat stats, and bullshit their abilities. Examples of how to make monsters using the "make shit up" method:
>Vampire
ST 14 DX 12 IQ 12 HT 12
They can spend an action to lock eyes with someone. The target rolls vs will or is stunned for as long as the vampire maintains eye contact
Can turn into a bat
If they fail a death check, they instead turn into invulnerable mist, and reform in their coffin, unconscious
Afraid of garlic and holy symbols
>Werewolf
ST 16 DX 14 IQ 8 HT 14
DR 50 against non-silvered weapons
Attacks skill 14 sw+2 cut All-Out attack every turn
>Shoggoth
ST 20 DX 8 IQ 8 HT 15
Attacks skill 12 sw+2 cr reach c,1,2,3
6 attacks a turn
Heals 5 HP/turn
Doesn't have vitals, eyes, skull, etc
On first sighting, roll Will-2 or run away
>Demon
ST 20 DX 15 IQ 20 HT 15
Doesn't make death checks, just dies at -5xHP
ALWAYS keeps it's word, though is fond of keeping to the terms of a contract while violating the spirit
Immune to fire, poison, acid
Can be banished by praying in Latin (if you know the prayer)
Can be trapped inside magic circles
>Tachikoma
ST 30 DX 10 IQ 6 HT 14
DR 100
Autocannon: Skill 14 6d6 (2) pi RoF 10
Is a robot, so immune to things robots are immune to
Thermal vision

I'm pulling all these numbers and abilities out of my ass, which is the correct way to run GURPS enemies, especially if all you have is GURPS Lite

>>52693515

You are simply mistaken. Spoken like someone who's only grazed the rules and made a quick, and grossly incorrect, decision.

Are you mentally handicapped, by any chance?

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>>52693980

I do agree that there's a point to that. In GURPS you have to honestly think about your character's arc and hope that the GM will give you varied challenges and ways to develop.

Going back to Grimwyld, the character I submitted was a half-beastmen (Scorned) that had a quite tremendous ST, good Perception and the ability to regenerate, but a low IQ and limited skills. A very solid sword and board fighter, but not much less.

Over time he's developed a lot. Initially the demands of overland travel with a group had him picking up skills to ride and handle horses in hard conditions and to better handle the woodlands. While I liked the simple, nearly animalistic low IQ play it also felt a bit limiting.

Perception increases served well and became part of his role in the group, a bloodhound to back up the group's other options.

Increasing IQ is very expensive, but when the leader of the group left he had to do more thinking for himself.

One of my latest changes is adding magic to a character that had none, though in a odd way. With the GM we created a Raven Totem for him, a magic tied into the story of the kingdom of beastmen they were traveling though.

One of the things I really like in GURPS is if you run into a frustrating thing your character can't do you can always start fixing that. If you want to be able to scale buildings quickly and move silently though the shadows you don't need 8 levels of ninja, you just need to start studying and developing new skills.

>>52691411
>>52686382

This wasn't a joke?

>>52693792
I believe it was the other way around.
SJ: "I'm a huge fan, can I make an RPG in your setting?"

TP: "Oh I know of GURPS (being a nerd god and all), go ahead"

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>>52693792
I even more interested why SJ don't use such license to promote DF

>>52696611
There's DF RPG that got kickstarted. 50 bucks gets you a better value than buying the two D&D starter books (which is 100 total).

>>52696634
They have just upped the price to 60 bucks now.

The SJG stakeholders report have just come out, and it wasn't pretty. I'm going to get an extra copy at least. I REALLY fear what SJG will do to GURPS if DFRPG isn't a succes.

>>52696773
They won't kill GURPS, not unless it all goes tumbling down. How bad was it btw?

They should cut costs by cutting out that fucking terrible art first.

>>52694800
I agree wholeheartedly with this

>Dragon
ST 20 DX 10 IQ 12 HT 12
SM+4 (10 hexes long)
DR 6
It can breath fire in a 5-yard-wide cone with max range of 20 yards (starts at 1-yard at the mouth, increases in width by 1 yard every 4 yards up to its max range). Fire deals 4d6 burn.
It can swoop with its tail, dealing 2d+1 crushing
It's got front and back talons that deal 2d+1 impailng
Attack skill 14
Note: It can fly.

>>52648524
Not necessarily a settings hack, but I've been working on running some games with Maze of the Blue Medusa. This proves to be rather different than my usual conversions, because for most 3.pf material, you can pretty reliably convert stat blocks, but MotBM only has minimal stats: Hit Dice, Attacks, and anything special about it.

Interestingly, MotBM says that any creature without any HD listed is to be taken as "1-Hit Die, un-leveled humans", for stats. Which gives me some kind of base-line. Every HD gives +1 to their to-hit bonus. The Hit Dice are supposed to assume a D8, or 4.5 avg platonic dice.

From this baseline, and the brief description of each creature's mechanics, I think I can pretty reliably ad-lib encounters in GURPS, even though it was designed for "The Most Popular RPG".

>>52696793
not him, but

>this was the first year in over a decade that we showed a loss

>Dungeon Fantasy - Our Kickstarter project to create a GURPS introductory box set has run into more troubles and derailments than we would like. A game that was meant to go to the printer before the end of 2016 is still clogging our pipeline and causing constant distractions. The project was not as far along in the process as it should have been, and miscommunication regarding the game components ballooned our costs. At the moment, barring a miracle, what would have been a profitable project is rapidly turning into a loss. This is becoming an ongoing problem for GURPS projects (see Discworld and Mars Attacks, below, under Failures).

>Discworld and Mars Attacks - We published two new GURPS hardcover books late last year. GURPS fans celebrated, and the books turned out well, but their disappointing performance further supported the unfortunate realization that sales are no longer strong enough to make traditional distribution work for GURPS hardcovers. Today's cluttered market, combined with our insistence on getting it right, made both books expensive experiments that tell us one thing: Do not produce more GURPS hardcovers until we have guaranteed that the sales are there. Does this mean more crowdfunding for GURPS? Maybe! But until we see the retail sales of Dungeon Fantasy, we're holding off on any more printed GURPS releases. PDFs will continue, and we'll revisit the question of "print GURPS?" later this year.

>>52692312
>Also, the threads ARE nice from time to time, you're right about that.

They're USUALLY nice. It's only the last couple of months that we've had things getting stupid and petty.

Normally trolls just got told to fuck off, and arguments between actual GURPSfags were pretty polite.

>>52696634
Isn't 50 bucks for gurps lite is too much?

>>52697314

That and:

>Today's cluttered market, combined with our insistence on getting it right, made both books [Discworld, Mars Attacks] expensive experiments that tell us one thing: Do not produce more GURPS hardcovers until we have guaranteed that the sales are there. Does this mean more crowdfunding for GURPS? Maybe! But until we see the retail sales of Dungeon Fantasy, we're holding off on any more printed GURPS releases. PDFs will continue, and we'll revisit the question of "print GURPS?" later this year.

Hm, the "things went wrong because we focused on getting it right" phrase is repeated a lot. It's true, and it wouldn't be SJGames without their commitment to doing their best - so it's forgiveable, but...

And it *really* seems like they need more staff. The report itself has a mini-ad for a closer (whatever that is - sounds chaotic).

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>>52697632
Well, from a modern perspective, their marketing and presentation is horrible.

Let's say I am a 15 or 20-something RPG aficionado who wouldn't be against a more simulationist system. I google GURPS. Their forum is literal eye cancer - sure, custom CSS is not a problem, but it is just off-putting. Then I google the subreddit, and find that it's practically dead. Same for the presence on all the major RPG forums which I might be already posting on.

Ok then, what were the latest hardcover releases? Mars fucking attacks, really? And well, it costs a lot. even PDF! Furthermore, it is not represented in local shops - for instance, here in Russia, which allegedly is one of the places where GURPS is somewhat popular, the shipping would cost me $70 at least (or $100 with FedEx), which is comparable to the Basic Set ($84.90). In other words, $160 for only the Basic Set - in comparison, this is my monthly rent, and my monthly income as a teacher is no more than $700.

And then we get to the actual books, with just too much information given to me. Like, half of the Characters book is the description of traits which I'll never use if I'm only interested in fantasy murderhoboing. And the art, the presentation - it's not there. And before you say "you don't have to use all traits and rules!" - well, to know what rules to include/exclude, I still have to read through them.

These are some very basic issues that I have personally heard from my fellow comrades here. I say "skip the traits, here's the precompiled list for DF", "the presentation is kinda horrid, just have patience, bro", "the forums are ugly, here's the CSS script", "no reddit presence, sure, but forums are superfriendly and harbor some highly sophisticated individuals", "the shipping cost is bad, let me pay at least half of it".

I am really tired from promoting GURPS in local shops and cons. People don't want it, and it takes one or two offputting things to solidify their stance.

>>52697950
Those are good points except CSS. What's wrong with comfy colors?

>>52697950
That went into the saddest story ever. I'm poor and make $2100 a month, then pay $1100 for mortgage.

Russian teachers make $8400 a year? That's just.. really, really sad. Your cost are lower, but damn.

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>>52697950

It doesn't help that GURPS has a well established history of being beaten up by fans of other P&P RPG systems (whatever the reason/s may be).

>>52697314
Christ... How could they ever think that Mars Attacks and Discworld settings---niche-tones settings in an already niche rpg system---would be a sales success?

For people to even CONSIDER buying Mars Attacks or Discworld, they would have to be into GURPS to begin with, which is SJG's main problem.

The DF tactic is sound enough, though, I think. It's a neat way to get new players into it. Still, they should probably focus on broad and easily accessible settings that are more contemporary.
(I suppose fees for making IP-based GURPS supplements are frustratingly expensive, though..)

>>52697632
>they need more staff
Not sure about that. A single employed staff position can be horrifyingly expensive per year.

>>52698640
I do want to run a Discworld campaign. It should be pretty simple - take a modern, real-life concept and put it into Ankh-Morpork. Humor can be replaced by cultural references.

>>52698994

I picked up a dead tree copy. This Discworld game book is superbly constructed.

>>52697950
This. All the fucking way.

I remember how SJG fucked up in late 90s. There was a major published they had a deal for to print their books in my country. The guys were practically controlling local RPG market, so it was a sure-fire deal, with guaranteed translations and local marketing, basically costing SJG a pocket change as investment, with hefty slice of revenue being guaranteed as their income.
Cue Random Printing House from Nowhere, offering lidiculous deal that was impossible to conduct from just reading their offer (basically 4 times as big printing as the biggest publisher in entire country, 10 times as big marketing and 90% revenue back to SJG, all offered by random nobody)... and SJG went for that fucking deal in their mastermind strategy.
The deal ended two weeks later, when the Nobody Printer disappeared in the thin air, but the original deal was already torpedoed and SJG decided they are no longer interested in selling their game in one of the more active and sizable markets in Europe.
20 years later when I need to play GURPS, I need to do a REALLY hard work to convince people to even consider such "obscure" game, as they never heard about it.

And that's assuming they are grogs, because then you tell someone younger about GURPS, you need to explain a really long story the fuck it even is, since the easiest reference I can give is sending them to GURPSGEN, as the forum and subreddit are a joke.

>>52698391
He is earning a pretty nice penny. I'm a lab chemist in Poland, I earn enough to live comfortably and with zero issues... and when you transfer it to dollars, I don't even make close to 7k a year, while I have Masters and 12 years of work experience under my belt.
The moment I have to buy books abroad, I'm basically putting 1/3 of my month salary on single one.

Are there some good mission for a Fallout esque setting? I need backup since I scheduled a session like three days ago and I realized my group were getting out of an abandoned mine soon and I don't know how to keep them away from the first decent settlement I haven't fleshed out yet.

>>52697950
I really and honestly think there should be some mid-step between Lite and Basic. Lite is only good if you want to run a very rudimentry game with real-world(ish) setting. Basic is good for everything, but it's waaaay too large when you just want to play a specific type of game and thus 3/4 of the book content will lay useless, but you still need to pay for it anyway, as it's "basic".

I've recentry "converted" another GM to GURPS (he was planning to run 3.X, "because everyone runs that", so imagine my face when it turned out he want to play 3.X solely because it's popular, while having a strong conviction to make game on his own, making GURPS a perfect replacement) and he pointed out a lot of problems with using just Lite for games and the amount of stuff that he had to consult with Basic anyway, while still focusing on most simplistic melee and ranged combat. He's by no way a dull guy, but it took a while to fully grasp combat rules as they are presented in Lite. And that's the only thing Lite covers anyway, so it fails to live to own content. In fact, I didn't even realise some of those issues with clear statements, because I just play the game for years, so know those things from experience.

Then comes the fact that the only source of info the guy had on the entire game came from my own effort, because there was nowhere else to send - his first question was about official facebook and reddit pages, something that SJGames undervalues and underestimates, with serious underpresence.
It's like they think this is still the "haydays" of 3e, when all they needed was just printing the game and everyone will be happy. And it hurts like a bitch, because their own stupid choices makes it hard to convince new people to even touch their game, despite best efforts of the existing playerbase. How I'm even suppose to explain a guy who was born when internet was already gaining "speed" there is no active subreddit for an RPG?

>>52696883
>Note: It can fly.
What is the gravity of this world?

>>52700376
What do you mean by "missions"? You want scenario ideas for post-apo game? Or you mean ideas for locations?

>>52696883
>Dragon
>ST 20
Are you aware a horse has 24?

>>52700376
Radioactive sandstorms force the party to seek shelter. From there you've got options.
>The shelter they stumble across is an undiscovered bunker; dungeon crawl time!
>The party finds another group of wanderers also seeking shelter; it's a low-key cozy session dedicated to roleplaying and characterization as the groups swap stories.
>As above, but it's a less friendly ragtag group, and someone winds up dead; the party should probably solve the mystery and find the murderer before they get a shiv in the back.

>>52700323
This entire publisher story reminds me how GURPS basically doesn't exist in European market, because everyone just shrugs when they need to play a game with no translation, while every other RPG is translated to AT LEAST German, French and Spanish. Hell, the guys selling Shadowrun didn't went out of business solely because they've "conquered" Germany.

It just comes as being a jerk when you say "Nah, no translations, everyone speaks English anyway". Lack of translation could work when nobody else was making translations too. Thing is - every other "major" game has them. Even just doing Basic Set would help everyone immensely, since you both rise brand awarness and make people more willing to reach for other books, even if untranslated.

>>52700548
There are translations...

... for 3e.

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>>52686382

>>52700576
I might be the only italian that is trying to get into GURPS

>>52700548
>No Spanish RPGs
>A problem
Not really a problem, spanish translation would be shit, the main problem is that the average spaniard does not like RPGs, spain is a waste of time RPG-wise and so are all spanish speaking countries.

t. Spaniard

>>52700784
Are you aware that Spanish translation is literally the most cost-efficient one? Because you can make one and then sell it - even if in very limited supply - to like 30 different countries? Who cares if you are going to sell 400 books here and 200 there, if in total you can cover for fuck-huge area with single translation. Latin America is one of the most undervalued RPG markets, but somehow nobody realised that the same game that can be sold in Argentina can be also sold in Mexico and Nicaragua. Granted, in small amount, but you don't need to make country-specific translations.

Just to give you some perspective - WotC is willing to make a translation and printing of 1000 copies in some shit-tier market, because they know selling 1000 books is better than not selling at all. And even if translation and publishing will eat 80% of profit (or even more), they are still present on the market and still getting brand recognition.

>>52700872
There are only 20 Spanish-speaking countries. Just saying, still got your point

>>52700548
>>52697950
>going with a no name publisher too good to be true
What the FUCK. Goddamn why. This triggers my autism.

And yeah the forums are fuck ugly. The layout of the books is good for reference but horrible for learning. HORRIBLE. I've done some webdesign shit and one thing that's hammered into you is that if you make shit even a little bit hard, you'll lose almost all of your audience. Every extra click is like a 20% loss (small exaggeration) or something. It's a lot.

GURPS is a good system buried under a mountain of impenetrable copy and an obscure idea-to-session pipeline.

Not only that, but a lot of those great rules are spread out in insane ways because of... Reasons. GURPS would be literally unplayable if every reference wasn't page numbered.
I'm sure most GMs use some sort of custom screen. Things that logically go together during gameplay are pages and pages apart in the books. I actually take back my previous statement. The books aren't even good for reference. They're only good if you're referencing one thing at a time, but you NEVER ARE. Because nothing happens in isolation, and you've got shit like healing and first aid... you need to jump around from the skill listing in Characters to the actual rules in Campaigns. Fucking hell.

>>52700922
>The books aren't even good for reference

I literally CAN'T imagine character making without using computer for that, with one of the two existing character sheet softwares.
Seriously, if I had to do it all by hand, it would be just too much work and I fully understand this as a honest-to-God complain about GURPS: character creation fucking sucks, unless using digital aid. It cuts down the time needed from roughtly a hour to few minutes. And not only the books don't give a simple mention such things exists, the "official" char-gen was also unofficial one day, but got eventually embraced as official.

Wtf?

>>52700922
I remember my first contact with Basic Set
>Ok, this is for character making, this is for campaigns...
>Wait, where is GM stuff?
>Oh, so it's in the campaigns...
It's a tiny thing, but can be confusing from the get-go.

>>52700872
Are you aware that spanish market doesn't exist?

Or did my post make this not clear enough?

let me put it simple
1. Spanish and latam people do not like RPGs or nerdy shit (nerdiest you'll find is LoL or Dota or FPSes on console)
2. Spanish and Latam have an absurdly low acquisition power so they'd just pirate it anyways
3. Spanish and Latam people are normally WoD/D&D playing and rules light.

Hence even if you say "IT'S 20 COUNTRIIIIESSSS" only 1 of those resembles first world acquisition power (Spain, and that one is debatable) the rest are varying degrees of extremely poor to just very poor, so basically you just burn your money.


Oh did I mention that those 20 countries write the same language SIGHTLY different and will go nuclear reading the other SIGHTLY different style?

But yes anon, keep not understanding that WotC is way bigger and less niche than gurps, has money to spent like sick cunts and even then barely they do any translations, hell look at magic (which is a much bigger market than D&D).

They just translate core sets not supplementary product.

>>52700498
Godspeed anon, thanks.

>>52701056
>keep not understanding that WotC is way bigger and less niche than gurps, has money to spent like sick cunts
I understand that perfectly. And riddle me this - how come there are no problems with brand recognition of D&D all over the world, but GURPS almost literally doesn't exist outside Anglophone sphere

>will go nuclear
>Make translation
>Make local adjustments, since you already have baseline translation
Here, I've just solved your problem and explained how all fucking translation into Spanish are made. No need to thank me, it's a common knowledge since early 20th century.

>>52700764
Here another, though I'm trying out a campaign with 4e with a group of newbie players

>>52701123
Fuck, the phone cut the most important part of the riddle:
"Could it by any way related with the fact they didn't shy with expanding like mad with their mechandise, instead of being bunch of cucks like SJG that literally don't want to sell their own product to anyone who isn't an American?"

>>52701056
Not him and fuck you, Euro!Spic, but consider the following:
Company A
>sells in country X
>has to compete with other companies in country X
>if selling abroad, it only sells in language X
>IF it sells abroad at all, since nobody ever heard about it in the first place
>Doesn't use Internet or social media for own marketing
>The marketing itself is run by people who were the same age as target audience 40 years ago
Company B
>sells in country X, Y and Z
>has almost a monopoly in Y and Z, as nobody else bothers
>if selling abroad, it can provide basic product in language Y and Z, which softens customer to buy more, even if in language X
>Extensively uses net and social media, both for marketing and active support
>The marketing is run by people who actually know how to sell shit

Do I seriously need to ask which company is making more money and why?

>>52701132
Are you me?
Are you doing pirates too?

>>52700444
I meant scenario, encounters, be them social, exploration, etcetera. It was a shitty choice of words

>>52701056
>Unless you are selling 5 millon copies, there is no point to bother
Idiots like you are the very reason why both tabletop and video game market suffers - because they expect to sell "all time hit", rather than accepting average income, so they are literally willing to earn nothing than earling a bit.

This is especially ironic in the age of crowd-funding

>>52701251
Fallout with mixed fantasy in the bag. Players are first experience apart from one, I tried out as DM in a similar campaign with my usual rpg group, but usual DM is forever DM for a reason.

>>52701239
Alright ask this question.

How much money will GURPS: Spanish cost?
You lack to fucking understand how poor Latam and how much spain does not play RPGs.

But hey, tell me more how you'll "Conquer latam and spanish markets" you fucking ape, but never will because people with a grasp of Latam, spain and our culture know we're not a fucking RPG market that is viable.
Translating to french, kraut or even swedish has better chances since
1. they're way richer
2. they have a small RPG culture

Or hell, why not russian?

>>52701318
Alright, let me put it this way
1. where are you making these books?
2. Are you adjusting for acquistional power?
3. How are you advertising this?
4. How are you accounting on a small to null RPG market on those places?


But again, keep jerking the meat how you'll conquer latam market, until you fucking realize printing and sending the book costs more when you don't sell a single fucking copy because these countries don't have money. Also you won't do it nor anyone with half a brain will before french and german, it is simply not viable.

But again, keep telling me how you know about these markets (you don't, you really fucking don't) because at this rate I might just go to an RPG store and take a picture of the shelves being fucking full to the brim since nobody buys RPG books.

>>52701318
>in the age of crowd-funding
Speaking of which, why SJG are so incredibly incompetent in using this? Dungeon Fantasy already turned into a horrible mess and they themselves acknowledged it in their report, so knowing their infamous "burned once, abandon forever", they are not going to even try using Kickstarter and anything else to help themselves with either promotion or lowering publishing costs.

Which means we are not going to get 4e Vehicles any time soon, even if it's a perfect case of crowd-funding project - they would already have backers-as-buyers, plus the thing itself would have financing.
Exactly how many people they hire anyway?

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>>52701413
Pic related for you, I rest my case

>>52701413
Are you at least aware you are the only one talking about Latin America as a market, while the original post was about catering for European market? But then some sperg started talking about "30 countries" and you run apeshit about a concept nobody even talked about?

Stay mad, Euro!Spic, but stay mad away from this place.

>>52701413
>why not russian?
What if I tell you there are serious talks to publish GURPS 4e Basic Set in Russian, along with additional deal for also publishing Low & High Tech, Martial Arts, Fantasy and Horror if the Basic Set sells well?

>>52701413
Speaking of shit markets - Lite was published even in Lithuanian, but not in Spanish.
The hell?!

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>>52701413
>Being this mad
>In GURPSGEN

>>52700922
You!
Yes, you!

Throw some ideas how to improve the text formatting and accessability.
Aside of course making "Shotgun Compilation"

Wow, this year's SJG's report was really depressing. Hopefully SJ can get his head out of his ass and make some sensible decisions for GURPS.

>>52697560
Well it includes a "GMs book" a "Player's book" and an adventure. As well as maps and counters and dice. I think it also includes a GM screen.

Seems like a good deal to me, even with the new price. Compare that to the D&D Player's Handbook and the GM's book (whatever it's called), which'll run you 100 bucks in total. From a store-shelf perspective, I think some people might prefer the boxed-set idea over two separate purchases.

>>52700430
Normal earth gravity??
Are you saying large dragons shouldn't fly?

>>52700458
I made a mistake. I was basing it off of Fantasy's racial template and forgot it was a *racial* template. So change 20 to 30.

>>52702096
The report isn't all that bad...
... until you realise GURPS is not even 3rd rate priority for the company...
... and how it's 3rd year in a row of steadily decreasing sales (they are 2.5 million below 2013, or 1/4 of total income)...
And all of this despite doing pretty well overally, with no major set backs or anything like that.

>>52694770
That's actually closer to Action 4's skill sets.

>>52702240
Not him, but ever heard about square/cube law?

Would GURPS adopting an Open Game License
be a good or bad thing? I think SJG should play up it's versatility.

>>52702311
>Isn't all that bad
>We have been getting by with a small marketing team for many years now – seven years ago, Paul Chapman handled 99% of our marketing efforts as we were breaking into larger markets – and we have realized we need a larger team to handle the marketing needs of a larger company.
They've openly declared their marketing was a joke and realised few years too late they are doing it wrong. That's the real deal-breaker in the report: their amazing naivety when it comes to marketing, especially when they get surprised each time something didn't really worked out as a game project.
How could it, if they can't sell it?

>>52702331
Are you really going to complain about the physiology of a fantasy creature? These sorts of things are just accepted as genre convention, even if they break natural laws, because it's cool.

Not tha you can't autism about realistic biology, but why would you bother?

>>52702392
>If it's fantasy, then it doesn't have to work like real world
It still won't make something physically unable to lift, unless it will be flying by different means than using own wings.
So your excuse can work if
>The dragon is in fact levitating
But it can't work when
>The dragon is using wings absolutely incapable of creating lift

And I've just pointed out why I would bother. It's not THAT hard to provide a dragon with proper wings and/or make them glide rather than fly. But it's just sloppy when you say "hey, but it's fantasy" when you are using GURPS out of all games to pull this.

>>52701550
SPanish people DO NOT FUCKING LIKE RPGS.
Specially not if they're anything but
1. Weeb
2. Rules light
3. D&D
4. Cheeky
How the fuck anima exists if it only checks one? Nobody knows.

>>52702373
I don't think it will be any good. Sure, when D20 went OGL, it pretty much took over the market, but D&D already had a benefit of being more or less the default RPG system, the only one that is known to normies. Another potential problem is that the GURPS authors pride themselves on quality, and having a flood of low-quality third party content may actually become harmful to the system. Honestly, I would've preferred if they would just reveal some of the inner workings of the system to public, to make it easier to make fan supplements.

>>52702450
>But it's just sloppy when you say "hey, but it's fantasy" when you are using GURPS out of all games to pull this.
Why can't you use GURPS to "pull this"? Who gives a shit if the dragon's flight is magical, natural, or a wind spirit picking it up and moving it through the air while the dragon flaps its dinky wings ineffectually? Because all of the above are "pullable" in GURPS, because GURPS lets you make whatever the hell you want. It doesn't need to be autistic realism all the time. Are you going to quit a game because the GM wants dragons to have natural flight with wings too small for the square/cube law?

>>52702451
>Only one
I see three checked from the list.

>>52702498
I guess you are missing my point here and by a large margin.
I'm not saying dragons can't fly with shit-wings. I'm saying you need to apply justficiation like any of those listed by you to make it "work" and nobody will complain.
But it DOES rise complains when you DON'T attatch another explaination.

>>52702491
>Honestly, I would've preferred if they would just reveal some of the inner workings of the system to public to make it easier to write submission to SJG and Pyramid
Fixed those typos for you.

>>52702498
Not the jackass you're arguing with, but in this case, following the square-cube law *should* be done because fuckhuge wings that block out the sun are awesome.

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>>52702450
>>52702498
ROCKET-PROPELLED DRAGONS, YOU DUMB FUCKS
Pratchett already did that

>>52702575
And I'm perfectly cool with that

>>52702551
I don't know anyone that would ask a GM why dragons can fly. Well, I guess I know you, now, so that's one person. It doesn't matter. Players don't care about how a dragon flies, because dragons fly. That's just what they do. It's a natural aspect of the creature that's accepted for what it is. Sure, it can be funny to say that the wings are too small for it to fly, but that's nothing more than a bullet point on a buzzfeed "10 Reasons Why Dragons Can't Actually Exist" list.

>>52702563
That would be cool as fuck.

>>52702575
Holy shit, I want an English translation of that

>>52702622
>I don't know anyone that would ask a GM why dragons can fly
>I also never did a dragon-hunting scenario/campaign

Nice knowing.

>>52702563
There's plenty of fan content that just can't be officially published, such as WH40K conversions. But encouraging such content is ultimately good for the system, as it attracts fans of other franchises, especially if the official RPG based on this franchise goes tits up (like it happened with FFG Warhammer games). Also you recall how many people in /gurpsgen/ who want to use this system to run STALKER campaigns? Well, for every such person, there is one or two Russians who use GURPS to run Fallout campaigns.

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>>52702450
>hurr durr drago shouln't fly with wings cuz it's unrealistic!!!!!!!!!!

Don't be that guy. For real. Your kind is the reason why GURPS is seen as an autism den.

>>52702622
To be fair, knowing how a dragon flies CAN be important. If you're hunting dragons, a crippled wing might ground it, or it might not because the dragon flies by channeling mana though a special organ and anti-magic zones are needed instead. Other possibilities include being big fat gasbags vulnerable to piercing and burning damage, walking on air as an innate ability, etc.

However, if the GMs say dragons fly by flapping their wings, I'm not going to bust out pencil and scratch paper to prove the wings lack the surface area to generate enough lift for the overall weight of the creature; I'm going to aim the ballista at the goddamned wings.

>>52702630
>>52702575
Izi!

>"Extend swords by two centimetres." Pfh! That's what you call a breakthrough in quality? That is your answer to the challenges of time?! Next!
>So?
>DRAGONS!
>Intriguing. Expand on this idea.
>All known sources (fairy tales, tall tales and legends) tell of dragons using muscle power for flight. That is last, eleventh century.
>This, twelfth century, is the century of jet-powered motion.
>If the opponent uses dragons against us, we'll have an anti-air dragon.
>And finally, a ballistic dragon with three warheads.
>That is it! Perfect!
>Just one problem, milord.
>We have no idea where to find dragons...

>>52702652
>>52702731
I guess, yeah, although wings are a pretty obvious reason for why it could fly. If the GM has something else up their sleeve, a Research or Hidden Lore (Dragons) roll would reveal that they fly via other means. Pretty safe to assume that they just flap their wings to fly, though.

I like crippling wings a lot more, because it's cooler when you down a dragon and they have a wing dragging along the ground, riddled with helpful hand-holds in the form of arrows for climbing onto its back to plunge your sword into the base of its skull.

>>52702762
Haha, nice! Cпacибo!

I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing; dragons in my game have been made effectively extinct thanks to the party nuking them.

Which isn't to say I'll never get to reintroduce them to Grimwyrd. Just to say I'm gonna have to make the surviving one sufficiently badass.

>>52702798
Regardless of its means of flight, if it has wings, we can safely assume he needs them for something - to steer, or to provide additional lift. So crippling them is always a good idea.

Is there a good way to get older books in hardback? I want to support the game, but I don't want to just buy PDFs if I can't print them. Is there a good service for hardbound books?

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Are non-magical large and strong animals (like alligators, terrorbirds, huge boars, etc.) enough of a threat to the average TL4 PC (assuming they are competent, but have never seen such animals before) to make for challenging encounters, or do I need to go back to TL1 or TL2 to even the odds?
Plate armour especially seems like it would make such encounters a lot less threatening.

>>52703439
Last thread had 4 125-Point newbies got TPK'd by an Ox. Keep in mind big animals have ~20 STR on average and decent HT, and they have natural DR if they have thick scales and the like. Some even get Berserk as a trait (Like Camels, of all things).

>>52703439
Definitely. Boars have HT 14, meaning that they aren't going to die until you do 90HP worth of damage to it, and in the meantime it's killing you with its tusks.

I'd love to see a PC in plate get deathrolled by an alligator. Monster Hunters has a (very powerful) example of one:

>An albino alligator can bite and whip with its tail on the
>same turn, at no penalty. Anyone it bites (up to SM +3) is auto-
>matically grappled; treat this as a two-handed grapple for the
>purpose of breaking free. After that, it can worry for full biting
>damage (no roll needed) or attempt a Quick Contest of ST, with
>victory pulling the victim underwater!

Also this: >>52703604
Animals in GURPS are always credible, often deadly threats, unless you're working with hundreds of points.

>>52703439
Plate is pretty expensive though, especially the heavy stuff, meaning most average PCs* will either not be sporting plate or will be using the lighter plate at around DR 3.

At TL4, the biggest issue may be muskets (if they hit; if they miss, the PC isn't getting another chance with that gun).

*Assuming 150-point PCs with points spread fairly evenly between combat, social, survival, and background.

>>52703604
Nah, camels have Bad Temper. Also I wonder how do you stat their spitting ability.