Shadow War Armageddon General /SWAG/

First for the blood god

>>52622979
>Premium bounties
Paladin, Tyranid Prime, etc.

Solitaire is the only 'Go it alone' character though.

Why would you not use the box-art for OP Picture?
>This WILL cause a lack of traffic to the thread.

>>52623058
Second for kroots never

Daemons, Kroot, True Clutists, pls
At least INQ are on the way. Greyfax leader here I come.

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>>52623067
Satisfy?

>>52623067
People will still find it, they'll just have to get within their Initiative value in inches first.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/09/shadow-war-armageddon-the-rules-available-soon/

"Following the unprecedented demand for this game, our book team have thrown themselves into creating a new rulebook you’ll be able to order separately. Not content just to make the book a copy of the one that appears in the boxed game, though, they have also added in all the extra content too: all the factions that have had their rules published as PDFs will be included. And, following numerous requests we’ve received from the community (that’s you), we’ll be adding in two new factions – the Battle Sisters of the Adepta Sororitas and warbands from the Inquisition."

>>52622880
To answer the inevitable question as to where you get scatter & artillery dice? Ebay (though it looks like artillery dice are a bit rarer now). Nothing stopping you from making an artillery die though; 1-5 get doubled to 2-10, 6 become misfire.

>>52623075
Remind me, why do you think kroot would fit in sw:a?

>>52623061
The Right Honorable Coreheim was technically a homebrew.
Be careful whom you annoy with your careless words.

>>52623130
Because where else would they be if not the bowels of a besieged hive-city?

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>>52623105
What the fuck do I know anyways.
I only have models from an I2 faction.
Falling from high areas and not finding things are what I'm best at.

>>52623132
isn't that the one from the 'no sisters of sigmar cuz we hate women' people?

>>52623123
I am pretty sure gw will start selling artillery dice again now that they are used in a game they sell.

>>52623130
Because it's a plastic unit which doesn't have ridiculous stats.

>>52623153
But they're the lowest form of infantry though. This game is about special operations.

>>52623132
And?

Homebrews are still bending of the rules.

Follow the rules

>>52623190
>But they're the lowest form of infantry though
ork boys and genestealers are in this game

>>52623190
Yes, ork yoofs and scouts are truly the pinnacles of quality urban operators.

>>52623201
Yes, but the rules made scatriders.

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>>52623170
...In a Shadow War™ collectors tin for the low, low price of $20!

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>>52623201
My group have increased the amount of models you can advance from 1 to 2 after each mission.

It might be homebrew, but it has increased the fun we have in in the post-combat cleanup.

>>52623209
Well, it takes place in Hive Acheron on Armageddon during the aftermath of the third war. Some factions make more sense than others. Then again I wouldn't mind kroot in the game. For your sake I hope you get what you ask for. I just don't see how it would make any sense.

>>52623234
Their list would look funny tho

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>>52623270
Fun is not part of the rules.

>>52623274
The Armageddon setting is just for core game.

>>52623351
I thought this too. Someone argued with me the other day about Tau being on Archeron. I figured it was just Shadow War, and Armageddon was box one?

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>>52623327
And neither is puncher the opponent in the mouth in order to win initiative.

>>52623316
Not really.

Shaper
Trooper/recruit
Krootox or whatever.

Spec op vespids, hounds, some tau guy

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>>52623385
If GW gets to decide the the army rooster you're instead looking at:

Appointed Kroot
Kroot
Re-Kroot

And Spec ops; 'Tau Pointer' and 'Tau Firewarrior'
>I'm still salty about the necrons.

>>52623434
Appointed Immortal was pretty gay, sure, but like Necrons have such a weird structure anyway, what would you do?

>>52623201
Please leave and take your sperg with you.

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>>52623434
>Re-Kroot
made me chuckle

>>52623485
Only if you follow the rules

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>>52623483
Lord, Immortals, Warriors.
Following the standard god damn FOC.
The entire necron faction is designed around the Lords and the Crypteks having the tools for diversifying your army and the rest for sheer numbers.

The troops have 2 weapon choices; 1 which is objectivly better than the other for a 5pt difference. There is no Melee choices.
Considering both Lords, Immortals, Deathmarks and Lychguards are based on the same god damn chassis I'd assume that you could either kit out your lord in all the things or at least make some make-shift Lychguards from your troopers.

I'd at least want a Cryptek or some of the Ghouls to be a third Special Ops slot.
Having only 2 was just a blatant cop-out.

>The faction doesn't really need the whole Canoptek part to function on a skrimish level.

>>52623575
Lords a full on HQ in a game without them. Secondly, I agree with the chassis thing, but I doubt GW would encourage kit bashing.

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>>52623601
When you can make snipers, immortals and elites from the same sprue it's hardly kitbashing, no?

Well, I get that. But we're talking minor lords here, not really overlords.
If Lord is still thought to be too high on the ladder then at least let the leader be a lychguard.

Appointed Immortal. Literally costs 80 more points than a regular Immortal with no added weapon options or stats.
>why

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>>52623012
Working on my csm squad leader

>>52623159

It is, yeah. Apparently the main sigmarite order in the city didn't make sense existing because they'd all get raped.

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Shotguns vs. Bolters vs. Snipers for scouts?

I figured giving some shotguns and then upping them to Snipers once I got the points or leaving them be as they get into melee range. Thoughts?

>>52623667
They really phoned it in with the Necrons and Tau. A lot of the teams get really lame choices for troops. Chaos Space Marines and Grey Knights but no Deathwatch kill team? No inquisitors? No Tau breachers or kroot. I'm hoping that a revised version comes out later with some modifications and options.

>>52623953
Inquisition confirmed for later release.
I hope we're getting free digital rules again

>>52624139
SoB and Inquisition will be both free AND added to their reprint.

I really, reeeeally hope Inquisition is like
-Inquisitor
-Acolyte
-Mini-acolyte
-Special Acolyte or Servitor

Then Death cult assassin, Crusader, and Daemonhost as SO

>>52623116
noice

Glad they realized the demand and rushed to meet it. Here's hoping the book is a good price. If it's around $30 or so I'll be getting it for sure.

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>>52623201
>homebrewed are bending the rules
>follow the rules
>your fun is wrong

Wow you must be all the rage at parties

>>52624442
I hope you don't intend to show up at your game shop league matches with your custom fluff list and expect the 'gentlemen' to let you play whatever numbers you want on >muh dudes.

>>52624377

>Inquisitor
More likely a 1-wound junior Inquisitor.

>>52624377

Honestly, I'd prefer DCA as the SO and just give Acolyles the ability to buy Storm Shields. Makes it a bit more interesting.

>>52624595
>>52624377
Aren't you forgetting the Interrogator?
The middle-man between an Inquisitor and his Acolytes?

Specialist would probs be heavy weapons dudes and SO would probs be a sanctioned psyker and techpriest.

>>52624680
Yeah, that's good though. I just wanna be able to give them a Condemner so I can use Greyfax.

I bet Servitor would be the specialist. Heavy Bolter, Multimelta, and Plasma Cannon options.

Super doubt Psyker would be an SO. DCA, Crusaders, *maybe* a Joekero, Daemonhost. Would be sad if Enginseer makes it to a 3rd list.

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Elite Hive Ops "Least Good"

still need a kroot and a gue'vesa

>>52625133
What are they gonna be? I see the pulse accelerator drone. no rail rifles or Ion rifle seems weird

>>52625436
Actually the drone dude is a "naked" cadet with only a marker light (in drone form)

I was thinking also the Kroot would be marker light carrier.

>>52623130
Right next to the fucking Tau

So, it seems that if I want to do Eldar, I'm kinda screwed in that I need like... 2 or 3 different boxes,

>>52623012
I'm looking at running my Emperor's Children for this.

Is there really any value to having +1 Initiative versus something like +1 Toughness or access to Inferno Bolts?

Seems kinda bungus.

So what's the consensus on Tau drones? Good or no?

>>52627225
as always, +init is the weakest chaos mark bonus.
highest init wins ties in combat, init affects your "aware of" range and also your non-line of sight spotting hidden range. it also affects the roll you make to break pinning early and stuff like not falling if you get pinned or go down near a ledge

>>52627270
Start with a Recon, get the other two later, if you even need them. They're honestly not necceaery. We don't need grav inhib because we have overwatch and fire support. We don't need Pulse Accelerator because most of the time you won't need that range; you should be in dense maps that block that sort of line of site.

Recon is worth it because of the burst cannon vs hordes like orks

Hotshot lasguns seem kind of bad, which is annoying since I was gonna run Scions.

Any suggestions on Guard loadouts? Shotguns seem fun. Was thinking about going CC oriented--power sword sarge, tarpit recruits, special weapon gunners, shotgun vets.

Tips from people who've played?

>>52627290
Looks like I'm running Orkz den. Dey are, after all, da best.

That'll make two Ork players at my LGS, which I guess is fitting for Armageddon.

Played a game harlequins are OP pls nerf

>>52627377
You could have been more eloquent, but you're not wrong.

>>52623116
Too bad they probably won't bother fleshing out any of the pdf factions. Craftworld Eldar and Tau got boned.

Eldar should have options for Storm Guardians that develop into Striking Scorpions or Howling Banshees. Also, the Dire Avenger Shuriken Catapult should have a +1 at short range so it's an actual upgrade from the standard.

Tau should give you the option of Pathfinders or Firecaste Warriors.
Recon Armor should give a +1 to Initiative outside of Melee.
Pulse Carbines should have some way of representing the grenade launcher (Chance to pin even if shot missed.)
Pulse Rifles should have +1 to hit at short range like every other rapid fire weapon in the game.
Pulse Blasters should be short ranged sustained fire.
Specialists should be able to take SMS or Missile Pod turret instead of Pathfinder weapons.
Drones should be bought naked with each one able to take a drone system.
Markerlights, shields, and twinlinked pulse carbines should be available to drones.
The hardwired systems in the tau rulebook like Blacksun filters and Drone Controllers should be available to Shas'ui and Troopers.

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>>52625133
>That MI shoulder pad on one of the fire warriors

Hello there fellow citizen

>>52627447
>shuriken weapons need a buff

you're fucking retarded, the shuriken weapons are the strongest basic weapons in the game

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>>52625014
How?

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Never played Necromunda, are vehicles possible or is that too much?

>>52627623
Vehicles are totally possible as scenery

>>52627666
I figured, guessing bikes are op too. I also hate that Grey Knights are the only ones with Psychic powers.

What should a guard list prioritize? My buddy wants to make one and as the slightly more experienced friend I've got to help him out.

>>52627699
nids too

>>52627727
We get more rooty tooty point and shooty than anyone else. We also have the cheapest platforms to put good weapons on with BS 4 for the most part.

Get your special weapon guys tooled up and be smart about using grunts and rookies to screen for them.

>>52627727
Ldr should definitely go Bolt Pistol/Chainsword combo, 3A and they're all Str 4 Sve Mod -1/-2
Grenade Launcher is also kind of a must for starting list as it's too expensive to pickup later.

Anyone knows if Inq and Sisters will also get free online PDF ?

>>52627311
like you could have a slaneshi list to the side for fun, it's not like it's hard to have multiple teams

>>52627772
Why would you ever GL if you can Plasma ! ?

>>52627781
yes

They answered it in the facebook thread following the announcement

Question.

So I know that strength automatically causes a save modifier. However, many shooting weapons have a save modifier built into the profile.

Do these stack, or is the save modifier in the weapon's profile just there to remind you what it's modifier is and that's all the modifiers the weapon gets.

Ie. a plasma gun is S4 with a -1. However, at S4, it would have a -1 just for being S4. Would that mean overall it has a -2?

Pretty sure that's not how it works, but I know melee weapons do work this way so I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

>>52627290
That awareness range is pretty brutal if you can't spot certain armies fast enough. Same with the pinning.

>>52627810
GR8 - any ETA on that ? Sorry for my question I just dont use JewBook at all ...

>>52627814
For shooting only the modifier counts - for hand to hand is modifier AND on top of that S of the model

>>52627838
cool that's what I thought, thanks.

>>52627793
I like having the Lrg Blast option, it's a versatility thing.

>>52627854
>>52627838
unless the weapon has a fixed strength, like chainswords, then it's only the modifier

WOOOOO GOT MY STORE'S LAST COPY


now to not touch it until i actually finish everything i have

>>52627771
>>52627772
Thanks, I assume we want to max out the special weapons, if so which ones should he bring? Also how is carapace armor?

>>52627793
Yeah currently trying to toss up between F/K GL and Plasma.

+1 short vs -1 long is frankly skewing the decision for me, seeing as gaard don't get photovisors.

Speaking of which:
>>52627727
>>52627300

Hotshots are just a 40pt bolter. They're fine.
I'm currently playing as Guard, but I can't really say I'm an exemplar becuase I'm capitalizing on us not having gajillions of terrain.
So:

Back line:
Sergeant - Zilch Weapons, Carapace Armor
Sniper - Toxin rounds, Red dot sight, camo
3x Veteran - HS Lasgun, Telescopic sight, camo

Front Line:
Specialist, Frag/Krak launcher, Camo
Specialist (+1W), Heavy Flamer, Carapace
3x Rookies, Shotguns, Carapace.

So my back line does most of the killing with the rerolling 1's, and my front line walks forward and overwatches against all the nasty things which want to charge me, and/or collects objectives
Were I fighting pathfinders or skittles I think I'd be screwed, but thankfully they haven't popped up yet, it's just been orcs, chaos, harlequins, etc - a bunch of things which don't enjoy heavy flamer to the face.

>>52627447

...really? You think Eldar need buffs? They are already potent.

52627447
Clearly B8, nobody can be this retarded.
Go find your own (You)

I assume the design team chose Pathfinders because Strikes and Breachers were too powerful.
What with every other race (with a single exception) being made up almost exclusively of troops choices.

I guess you can't really complain about Necrons having a lack of customisability when their entire racial schtick is their lack of customisability.
Still glad they took a deathmark instead of having to take a 'Specialist immortal' or something silly.

Guys I think much of frustration steams from bunch of new to the hobby theoryhammering whiners. AsW is not ONLY a skirmish game - it is descendant of Necromunda - skirmish/campaign game. This makes balancing not FLAT like in other 1 time only games. Certain gangs will be stronger at the start others in the mid and some at the very end. When I read how harlies are OP or any gang for that matter I know person writing that has never played long necromunda campaign.

I will educate you - In campaign not only rules play but people do too. If one person with small list goes to the top of the heap - other people will activly try to wear him down. Lists with higher number of models will have more spread of the skill while smaller crews will have better fighters.

Now look at sprawl in promethian cheap. See how you can get some model lost ? Attacked by some animal ? slip and go OOA ? Those results heavly favour normal model count crews.

Also one - ONE bad roll from small crew can ruin it game plan - all you need is 1-3 -> 1 -> 1-3 and you are missing key component that you need to replace - you lost lods of equipment and you lost lods of skills.

I only played about 10 games of newmunda and realy gangs are balanced and while some may be not as fun as others - this is true to the FLUFF of the armies.

Overall it shows that when GW doesnt want to do something - then they nail it as it should be

>>52628276
>I assume the design team chose Pathfinders because Strikes and Breachers were too powerful.

No because the Strike team box are fucking boring. All basic weapons, no special weapon. What do specialist supposed to use?

>>52628322
Yeah and this is game about scouts FFS not about normal tactical teams ... I'm fed up with noobs and retards whining about aspect warriors fucking morons ...

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>>52623105

Use the Necromunda box art.

Here's a huge version for your pleasure.

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>>52628387
>dat 90s

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>>52628316
>Overall it shows that when GW doesnt want to do something - then they nail it as it should be

Quoted for truth

Starting without models and trying to be cost effective, while still considering fun, what would I be better off grabbing, Dark Eldar or Ork?

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>>52627822
This is all we got.

The preorder for the book starts on the 22nd, and it will last a few weeks instead of the usual 7 days.

My guess is the 22nd at the absolute earliest. Release date of the book (whenever that is) at the lastest.

>>52623351
Not just. Several of the factions outside the rulebook was present at Armageddon according to fluff.

>>52624265
Source on them being free?

>>52628579
Dark Eldar.

You get everything you need in one box and your team size will not grow beyond the box

>>52626026
Pathfinders are more elite units tho, fit for special operations. Kroot are just regular grunts.

>>52628946
Done.
That's what I was leaning towards anyway, due to the idea of murder fucking space elves.

Thanks.

>>52628952
Kroots do their own merc work.

Also again, this is a game with fucking Ork yoofs

Who cares about the fluff? Make up some Saturday morning cartoon Judge Dredd story about Klovis the Redeemer and Ork boys scavenging necron body parts for their shootas.

>>52623116
Remember when they said they'll release rules for free? Classic GW.

>>52628859
In the comments on GWs facebook page announcement of this, they've also said the book will be softcover 200 pages and priced accordingly.

Are there other GW softcover books that big in print?

>>52629082
They release free rules for AoS on a monthly basis. Free rules =/= Every books from now until eternity is free. Also, they released 10 teams for free.

>>52629111
Sigmar's General's Handbook is ~170 pages and is $25

>>52629207
Hmm seems a good match. even if they bump it up to 30 because its bigger and newer thats still a decent price.

>>52629231
So we're probably looking at the $25-$30 range

Get fucked, ebay scalpers.

>>52629249
>Get fucked, ebay scalpers
Hah, my sentiments to.

Reminds of their rage when GW released some characters that had previously been unique to stormclaw.

>>52627300
You can still run noob scions. Just load up on more special weapons.

>>52623012
First game tomorrow, bringing chaos and I could use some constructive criticism.

Aspiring Champion (Khorne/Undivided)
-Plasma Pistol
-Assault Blade
Chaos Gunner (Slaanesh)
-Heavy Bolter
-Photo Visor
-Camo Gear
Chaos Gunner (Slaanesh)
-Autocannon
-Photo Vison
-Camo Gear
Cultist
-pluck & daring
Cultist
-birthday suit

Ideally the gunners should be able to out-shoot anybody who tries to turtle and force any 24" or less guys to leave cover to engage. The cultists squire for the gunners running back and forth while maintaining cover in order to force that -2 to hit penalty. If they close, the champ counter-charges with a meat buddy for 4 dice+6.

As for the marks, champion will probably go undivided, but khorne could be fun. Gunners are slaanesh for pinning, fleeting target and falls. As long as the meat shields stay closer and run, shouldn't have to worry much about missing out on T5.

>>52627623
The game is set in a hive. Not much vehicular activity going on there. Terrain is supposed to be dense to create a sprawl. Streets wide enough to accomodate a vehicle would be rare, much less long enough that a walk wouldn't be prefferable.

>>52627815
You still see everything that you have los to. The init spotting range is just for stuff outside your los, such as in cover or hiding.

>>52629324
if the gunners are an easier shot than the running cultymans then the gunners can be shot at, so be careful with those losers. to effectively screen they wanna be easy(ier) targets

>>52629382
Ahh, thought it was specifically guys in cover or eating dirt you could ignore. They still work as ablative wounds and, more importantly, give the gunner a chance to shoot back if he's on overwatch.

>>52629015
On Armageddon. Following the third war. Where the overlord of hive Acheron commited treachery against the empire and got in league with the orks, sending the produced weapons and military resources to ghazghkull thraka. The hive is literally teeming with orks. This is the aftermath after the overlord has been assassinated.

>>52629082
They never said they'd release SW:A rules for free.

>>52629324
>any 24" or less guys
lul

>>52629407
yeah target priority is closest valid target, but that can fire at a more distant target instead if it's an easier shot (less penalties, maybe it's easier because your gun gets a +whatever at long range, any kind of easier). you can also ignore dudes that are in close combat or down.

What do you think of my skitarii list?

Ranger alpha (150)
Plasma caliver (75)

Specalist (90)
Transuranic arquebus (180)

Ranger (80) x2
Galvanic rifle (35)
One with omispex

Ranger (80) x2
Radium carabine (35)
One with clip harness

I'm planning on getting the two ranger with the galvanic rifle and the leader on the front line and keep the other ranger and the specialist on their back for suppression fire

>>52627897

I must admit I really like some static strength weapons in the game. Really helps the human strength guys.

Mind you, most of them lack WS4 so they see less use but still.

Wonder what people would think if SOB turned up and the units are celestians (2 attack, ws4) rather than battle sisters. Sorta like how tau got pathfinders rather than fire warriors.

>>52629475
Alphas can't take special weapons, so just give him the omnispex and a pistol or a galvantic rifle. Also rifles>>>carbines. Other than that, I'd put the clip harness on the important guy who isn't moving anyway, rather than a mook.

>>52629540

Would be nice. That or making Crusaders an inquisition trooper could be badass.

>>52627377
I'm an idiot and a noob, what makes them so OP ?

>>52629652

4++, immune to pinning save from big guns, can walk through walls.

>>52629665
>can walk through walls
wat
Okay that's dirty.

>>52629665
through?

>A fighter with a flip belt treats all terrain as open ground for the purposes of movement, but can’t end its move on impassable terrain. In addition, a fighter with a flip belt never suffers falling damage.

>>52629540
Tau got pathfinders because they're the recon troops of the Tau. This game is about small, specialized units doing special ops.

>>52629721
The main reason is because the kit come with special weapons for the specialist. Strike team kit only have basic weapons.

>>52629751
I don't think that's the main reason tho, even though that probably played a part in the decision. This game is about spec ops. Pathfinders are recon troops. Not hard to see why they chose them over fire warriors.

>>52629751
>>52629540
>>52623953

A lot of people forget that they choose the unit types that had all their options in the box. Necrons is just very difficult for that, so they already compromised and went for 2 boxes. Lychgaurd leaders and all that kinda stuff would further break with the idea of 'Buy 1 box and play'

>>52628337

You mean the Eldar list that doesn't fucking contain any scouts or infiltration lists and has less fucking options that the Strike Team? That Eldar list.

The only fucking reason that list has Dire Avengers and Guardians is because GW haven't done plastic Rangers or plastic Striking Scorpions, the latter of which we should have gotten fucking decades ago.

I mean, if you don't like the one Aspect Warrior type who's sole job is to infiltrate being in a kill team, then it should have at least had access, or even been entirely made up of Rangers.

They don't even get them as Specialist Operatives! It's just two flavours of Wraithguard (because THAT'S what you want in a sneaking mission! A giant robot! For extra stealth!) and the Autarch.

The Eldar list is completely bereft of options and makes no sense from a fluff point of view. Unlike the Pathfinder list, which makes sense, and has some options with regards to Drones Vs Troopers.

The only thing on the Tau list I'd change is I'd add an Alt-Fire mode to the Ion Rifle since the fluff text mentions it but the rules don't.
I'm thinking +1 S, Sniper and Small Blast but the Unreliable Rule as well? So you can't move and shoot with it on that setting, and it might blow up.

>>52629709

All terrain as open ground. That includes impassable. It just can't end it's movement on impassable so it can't stop halfway through the wall.

>>52629721

Good news: The SOB have almost every non-HQ unit in a single box. As Dominions, Retributors, Celestians, Battle Sisters and Command Squads all use the exact same box.

>>52629837
>>52629709
see i would have assumed they meant all passable terrain, but the fact they specifically mention impassible terrain just disproves that

>>52629856

Yeah, if it didn't say 'Can't stop in impassable' I'd have assumed it just meant they didn't get slowed down by anything but that means they CAN go through impassable and the game lists 'Walls' as one of it's examples of impassable terrain.

It's also the same wording that the 'Imaghost!' upgrade for the necron spec ops uses.

The ability to completely ignore walls is kinda staggeringly good for ambushing enemy troops. They can make a mockery of most overwatch attempts as chokepoints don't do much.

>>52629887
They obviously mean walls that can normally be climbed over. Not a wall that is attached to the ceiling in a building obv.

>>52629791
For Eldar, it makes sense to have DAs and GDs as the 'main' parts of the kill team, the other aspects are supposed to be rare, Biel-Tan non withstanding.
What bothers me is, they're bringing an heavy weapon platform! who the fuck carries a non-man-portable heavy-as-fuck weapon to a small squad operation!
Eldar should have 3 Specialists, choosen between Ranger, Striking Scorpion, and Swooping Hawk.
Shooting and hiding shouldn't be their thing, that's something that came from multiple iterations of the rules, their theme used to be overspecialized specialists, with barely any 'tactical squad equivalent' to talk about - and what do we play with here? Dire Avengers, the tactical equivalent that can mess it up both at range and in melee.
Me no likey.

>>52629902
>>52629887
>>52629856
>>52629837
Sounds like a RAW vs RAI dispute. Flip belts doesn't cause a Harlequin to become a ghost RAI, just an amazing acrobat.

Jumping over a high wall, or poisoned pool is fine, phasing through a wall is not fine. That's how I'd rule it.

>>52629887
That's what I tried in my game, had a choke point but couldn't do anything because they ran so I couldn't barely hit them, then when I did lol no pinning with 4++, then they just sniped me with pistols and I couldn't catch up cause lol ignore terrain I'm jumping to that next building lololol

>>52629992
It's sad that these things have to be explained to some people. Interpreting rules in ways that doesn't make sense because you can't read between the lines is why I have stopped playing games with some ex-friends. Had this one guy who would do this at every moment when we played games. Then again he's high functioning autistic so I guess he couldn't help it. I got fed up eventually though and plainly said I wouldn't play any game with him ever again. Those fucking arguments wore me down.

>>52629992
>>52629902

Yeah, the annoying thing is they literally used the same wording for the guys who ARE ghosts. It's not a well worded ability and could have been done a lot better.

I'm the guy arguing they CAN go through walls but I'd also politely ask other players to houserule it to something more sane/more fitting the fluff.

It's a casualty of 40k not really having rooms normally, so I imagine the devs didn't consider the possibility of...well...a roof. Thus Harlequins can walk 1 floor down from a guy and jump straight up through the floor into his back arc.

>>52630084
Maybe we should add Common Sense as a official game rule then? Also, every GW publication contains a blurb like that, that the rules don't account for every situation and that some common sense should be applied.

>>52630107

It's not so much a case of common sense and more of a poorly worded rule for a VERY common situation that could really do with Errata as it's a large hole.

Again, I'm not arguing that it's how it SHOULD be and would get annoyed at anyone actually running it like that. I'm just saying that it's how it is, rules as written.

>>52630048
>>52630084
They should have made some of the "for example" for lots of rule to to save up time and confusion of players. Like how they explain that Tyranid can buy and replace their weapons just like everyone else.

>>52630141
But seriously, what makes someone look at a Harlequin and think they can phase through a wall/roof/whatever?

All you have to do is, can I jump this move that I'm making? Considering that impassible terrain covers a lot of different elements I think it's easeir to apply some common sense than rewrite the rules for a flip belt. And yes, part of the problem is that 40k doesn't use confined spaces for its games normally but still...

>>52630084
Walls inside buildings aren't considered impassable terrain though.

>>52630168

>But seriously, what makes someone look at a Harlequin and think they can phase through a wall/roof/whatever?

Fluffwise? Nothing. As I've said: I'd be annoyed at someone trying to use it like that and would politely ask them not to.

Rulesewise: The fact that it uses the same wording as the ability that DOES let you phase through walls like a ghost.

Heck, the same wording is used for both teleporters AND jump packs. I feel like it would have been easy to separate the ones that go through walls from the ones that don't with different wording.

>>52630107
Unfortunately common sense is not developed in humans until about the age of 25 so that would be harsh on younger players. I think the better solution is to put more example sidebars in.

>>52630174

>Much of Hive Archeron is impossible to move over or through. Corrosive Pools, Enveloping Layers of Toxic Ash, Walls, Collapsed Tunnels and so on are all impassable. Fighters cannot move across impassable terrain.

Honestly, I'd have removed the ability to go through Impassable and just upped the distance they can jump to 4" or 6" rather than the usual 2". With the ability to move through impassable on Teleportation Packs/Necron Phasing.

>>52629992
>A wall is not fine
IDK, consider a few modern or ww2 wargames... usually walls are considered open terrain, unless it's something like a bank's vault. Soldiers are bound to have some explosive on them, opening a breach isn't rocket science (but it might involve rockets).
Anyway, different rulesets, different assumptions, in this one you could attack the terrain feature I guess? what are the T and W of a gazebo?

>>52630233
Well, I agree the rule should be worded more carefully. It's definitely a matter for a rules faq.

>>52630249
>open terrain
Let me clarify: open terrain for the purposes of MOVING, ofc not for LoS.

>>52630258

Yeah, that was my main point. Sorry if I gave the impression that it's Totally Working As Intended to have Ghost Clowns raping people through walls.

I like well worded rules so this one irks me a little.

>>52630249
I'm all for destructible terrain. And since the game accounts for demolitions (krak and demo charge) it could be an interesting mechanic. But the rules don't cover this. I am however considering incorporating stuff like this in my own terrain building, such as doors being removable with part of the surrounding walls. It should be easy enough to do. Then it will become a matter of "do I want to bring kraks to make myself more flexible movementwise?"

>>52630279
I understand. Personally, through my several decades long history of gaming, I have learned to accept that often rules aren't perfectly worded, and so I've instead come to the conclusion that I will not play with people who won't or can't respect common sense when interpreting rules.

>>52630305

Yeah, while I come from more of a designer/homebrewer perspective so I go 'Rules are never perfect...but that's no reason not to try to improve them'.

Yay for polite conversation on 4chan.

>>52630286
Destructible terrain is in the rulebook, however not with specific rules for every type of scenery. Shouldn't be too hard to come up with yourself.
>>52630249
However treating walls as open terrain since they can be blown up is ludicrous.
>>52630279
I understand that, but people also stop being so autistic about these kind of things and constantly calling GW lazy hacks for not taking into account that people are retarded.

>>52630286

More stuff to put those meltabombs on is always nice.

I'll admit: I'd have loved to have seen them do something Infinity allows. In Infinity, Demolition charges can be used as a (Very unwieldy) melee weapon as you stick them to the other poor bastard. The ability to charge a marine with 3 guardsmen and stick a meltabomb to his armour would have made me a happy person.

>>52630311
I'm too old to be an asshole to people.

Sure, if you have good friends who for some reason aren't capable of using common sense when interpreting rules (high functioning autistic who might become mentally locked to RAW, or too young people who still have an undeveloped common sense) then of course improving the rules will make everything more fun for all of you.

>>52630312
Right, let me clarify. Terrain is seldom created to support such rules. You can't remove part of a wall for example, leaving a jagged hole with reinforcement iron bars curving out of the concrete. That's what I want to incorporate into my own terrain building.

>>52630312
>walls as open terrain is ludicrous
with exploding big caliber bullets, general explosives, and over-armoured people that could just kick holes in the wall going around, I find it's more ridiculous to go 'oh noes, I'll have to go around this barely held together slum'.
Again, it's them rules, but if we're looking critically we should include 'easy' terrain destruction as part of movement.

>>52630332

Well, as I said: I come at this more as a designer than a player. A lot of my work is staring at my rules and going 'Alright, now what is the dumbest thing that this says if I read it straight'. So my mind tends to go in that direction even when playing.

One of my favourite things I ran into with my own rules was 'Wait, I wrote an ability that lets you take your actions even if an effect would stop you taking actions...fuck, I need to include 'Other than dead''.

I'm also a high functioning (Fortunately, very high. I mostly deal with the sensory overload issues rather than some of the other, less pleasant issues) autistic myself.

>>52630347
Among the means of destruction you mention only actual demolition explosives serve the purpose. It takes time and a lot of ammo to down a wall by shooting on it, even if your weapon can punch holes through it with ease. A 7.62 can easily punch through a brick or concrete wall for example, but you'd have to go through hundreds of rounds and place your shots very carefully to "saw" through the wall to make a hole large enough to pass through. That said, I agree that some walls could easily be houseruled destructible for the reasons you mention (a rusty makeshift metal sheet wall could be easy to tear down for example) so I'd leave that up to the players to agree on which walls in their game can be torn down and which needs explosives to be demolished. What I'm after is the option to actually modify on the fly part of the scenery to represent it having been blown to bits by a demo charge for example.

>>52630364
Then I understand your concern about having rules properly worded. To me it's just that I had a few really bad experiences with people less high functioning than yourself, that resulted in actual arguments and fights. I have other friends that I play with who are high functioning and they aren't straining on my patience at all.

By the way, do you feel it helps your own understanding of the rules to go over the rules that way and find things that need improvement?

>>52630399
We're talking 40k, a bolter burst (remember that it shoots mini-rockets) should be enough for a normal mass produced wall, a powersword should just slice out a new door, a chainsword? Might take a few moments more.
In reality, it's a bit different, ofc. We still don't give bolters to our military.

>>52630399
I know it wouldnt be nearly as cool, but couldnt one just make a custom token to show where a ball has been blown open ?

>>52630486
*wall
fucking hell

>>52630438

>By the way, do you feel it helps your own understanding of the rules to go over the rules that way and find things that need improvement?

I think so, though the main thing it's made me learn about is how rules can be graceful or clunky. Working out ways to smooth out rules and help people understand them on a glance. As well as the fact that rules can themselves affect how something is seen flavor-wise. A big example of that I recently ran into was trying to convey the idea of 'Being non-magically very charismatic and charming without making players feel like it's mind control'. It's a tightrope even with the rules themselves to convey the right feeling.

Honestly, that's the thing that annoys me these days more than rules that don't work. Rules that make a player sit there and have to ponder out what the developer intended. Even moreso than making a functional game, one should make one that's inviting to players and convey the flavor well.

>>52630486

Breach tokens wouldn't be a bad idea and making it a more core part of a game would make meltabombs and krak grenades a lot more favoured.

Have them represent a 1" by 1" has been blown in the wall and is now open terrain.

>>52630486
That's obviously a possibility. Good thinking.

>>52630485
Still, exploding ammo exists irl as well. The problem is that walls are designed to be stable as hell towards the pressure points of the ceiling and floor but they're not as resilient in towards the rooms they surround. This is why you can down a normal wall with a battering ram. However, to put an explosive inside the wall, as in putting a bolter round inside it would only create a directed explosion and would still just create a small hole since there is no leeway in the wall in any other direction. Powerswords and chainswords are a different thing though, and they could most likely cut open walls and doors with a bit of work like you say.

>>52623116
I still see this as shitting out a new book to make a quick buck off mass interest they somehow didn't see coming. I have little faith that they'll support the game in the long run. The rules for some teams are a bit wonky and now I doubt they'll ever be revisited.

>>52630538

Would be a nice keyword for chainsaw weapons, having them be more destructive vs terrain than an equally powerful sword.

>>52630511
That's what you get when developers aren't inclusive (and by that I don't mean women and people of colour being represented). Not everyone have the same mode of understanding. What you're literally doing is accomodate those with variations in capability to understand the nuances of language as written word. Every rules writer should have someone like you go over their rules before they're published desu.

>>52629960

>the other aspects are supposed to be rare

The whole Eldar race is supposed to be rare, but, I do agree that the Aspect Warriors SHOULDN'T be a trooper choice. Like, keep them as Specialists and Leader choices. So the most you have is 3 in a List, the rest are just camo'd Scouts and Rangers holding Toxic Sniper rifles who can all shoot and scoot.

>>52630558
I see a flood of houserules approaching. Ha!

>>52630571
It gets worse when the rules are proofed by the ones who wrote them, who remembers the original wording, concepts and mechanics, then even experienced first language readers will struggle.

Can anyone with the boxed set say if the templates are the same size as the 40k ones?

>>52630597
Same size since RT.

>>52630595
Yeah you should always have an external set of eyes for proof reading.

>>52630545
Because sir you are a moron - clear and simple. We have seen many like you over the year. You dont play - and yet somhow you claim expertise to judge if the rules are balanced or not or wonky based on your superb analitical skills ... a bolter to the face would be a blessing

>>52630600
Thanks.

>>52630545

Still, it might get people interested enough to get a good variant made by people that care.

My personal wishes for any such thing:

>Patch up the skill lists. Some of them are very iffy right now.
>Add an extra category to the warbands to let each faction bring something unusual. Some of the current spec ops don't really deserve to be in that category (I'm looking at you, Rustalkers/Scions/Chaos Spawn)
>A different injury table with more options (Not, however, just the necromunda table. 40k factions have access to a lot more cybernetics and medical care than underhive gangs. So I'd make stat losses less permanent/less costly to remove.)

>>52630571

Thanks for the kind words. Wouldn't say I'm fantastic at it but it's something I find very interesting. Just how much effects rules can have on how things feel, not just how they work.

>>52630595

Oh gods yes. This goes back to a physics principle I like to describe it: You can't make objective measurements within your own frame of reference. You need someone who is outside the basic development process read over it, see how it looks from someone who hasn't had your time to get used to the concepts that seem basic and easy to understand to you.

File: Breach_Tokens.png (167KB, 660x240px) Image search: [Google]

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Copy out and glue to a spare base or a piece of cardboard, there's your breach tokens.

Have fun blasting bulkheads anons.

>>52630616
>You need someone who is outside the basic >development

Playtesters

>>52630619
Those are really nice. Thanks!

>>52630616
Or you can wait for expansion called shadow of necromunda ?

>>52630347
blowing up a wall takes more time than just running somewhere. And stray bullets don't eliminate walls. Considering that the game includes rules for destroying terrain I think you're fully set.

>>52630340
yeah that's true. Which I why I'm try to glue on as little as possible of my new shadow war box. So that we can destroy things when we play.

>>52630633

That and editors, yeah.

>>52630619

Nice work. Simple but they work well.

>>52630643

Is someone already homebrewing for it? Or did GW announce an expansion already? I must have missed it, been busy today.

>>52630665
The "rules for destroying terrain" are basically just "some mission terrain is destructible and has a toughness/wounds value"

It's not really presented as a universal rule. So if you're gonna use it that way you'd need to assign those values to every piece of terrain in your collection, as well as making physical modifications to it all to allow it to be broken down/removed

Which would be pretty cool! But the second you step outside of your playgroup and try to blow up a pile of rocks that's in your way people are going to look at you like ur crazy

>>52630558
Shit like a power maul or power pick should be extra destructive too, a big choppa isn't much different from a sledgehammer, and so on... just about all melee weapons have some reason to have a special 'fuck the terrain' rule, other than basic shivs.
And when everything should get a rule, then nobody does! Just make it part of the basic game.

Why are the campaign rules so shitty?

File: 2013-02-28_08-32-28_426.jpg (287KB, 824x1117px) Image search: [Google]

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Well, Im gonna dust of my Kaos but Im kinda sad there are no rules for possesed ect.
We murines with spikes again. I will endure, I still dream thou...pic related.

I havent seen any Tyranid batrap so do you guys can tell me if they are ok to play? I like Tyranid models but painting 2 buckets of gaunts its not for me so Im kinda hope I could go for warriors and still have blast. Just one thing are synapse is still a thing to worry about?

>>52630789

Point taken. Maybe the opposite is more important.

Some ranged weapons would be good at it (As powerful as a rail rifle or pulse rifle is, it's not going to put big holes in the wall) but most are not particularly so.

https://mega.nz/#F!mUtQAAxS!1fjZcUJ94veAvCRBREeifw

Made some updates. All rules are there, now with hopefully correct page names. Fluff and picture pages missing.
Most of the credit goes to the google doc creator, the first mega, and various anon on the numerous threads for 90-95% of the pic content.

>>52630768
In military operations you don't use demolitions to blow up cover (pile of rocks). You use it to create new passageways to be able to maneuver. For example you sometimes want to move through a block of flats or houses and the safest way is to go straight through the houses. In such a scenario, if there's a wall blocking your path, you'll be using demolitions to create the path you need.

I agree that point values need to be assigned to terrain, but these can be streamlined. Make the rules so that bludgeons such as power fists or hammers are able to take down walls, chain and powerswords can cut through the hinges of doors, and demolition charges can do both. I'd actually rule krak to be too much of a directed explosive to take down a wall, but I'd probably say it can be used to knock a door of its hinges. Then make the points values depends on the thickness of the wall or door and possibly material. Keep it simple. For example less than a quarter of an inch, between a quarter and half an inch and above half an inch and up (the latter being impossible to breach).

That should add up to a good baseline for rules.

>>52630768
Why not make it general for types of enviroment, material be damned?

I think you shouldn't try to make it overly realistic. Suspension of disbelief and all that.

Maybe outline some standard wounds/toughness profiles for common features on terrain. So Walls, Bulkheads, fences, fuel tanks, pipes, etc.

And sure outside of your group it would be useless, but I'd be much more inclined to follow some well explained extra stuff than lazy houserules like: Walls are open terrain cuz I can shoot them.

>>52630868
You mean point values as in stat lines right? Cuz making terrain part of list building sounds like the stupidest thing ever.

>>52630868

You could honestly do that + Light/Heavy (For it's chance to resist. Might not work on the first try vs a military bulkhead unless you are using melta.) and have a pretty decent setup.

'That's a Heavy Door' is a quick evaluation.

>>52624463
Great post, since when homerule is even considered an option on turnaments?
You must be 18+ to post here

>>52630884
Yes, stats. Sorry.

>>52630889
Yes. "Keep it simple stupid".

>>52630884

>You mean point values as in stat lines right? Cuz making terrain part of list building sounds like the stupidest thing ever.

Yeah, that would only really work if they eventually included Bases for players to build up/raid for promethium caches. So someone can set up automated gun turrets around the base or pay to make all the wall reinforced.

>>52630840
Try actually reading the rules first. I like helping people but this is just spoonfeeding.

>>52630840

Well, that and 'with power armour'. Marines only get scouts.

>>52623190
Necron Warriors
Pathfinders
Scout Marines
Ork Boyz

I'm not sure which faction you play, but every other faction is "base infantry only" for better or worse (usually worse).

Kroot would fit in perfectly from a thematic perspective with the right abilities.

File: SDW_Armaggedon_Kabalite.pdf (589KB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

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>>52630901
oh yeah, 'fortifications' would be cool, for sure. Bunkers, turrets, shields, all that kind of stuff.

While we are on the subject of homebrew. I've posted it a couple of times but I'd like some input on my Kabalite roster. I think it's quite close to 'finished'.

>>52630943
Kroot would make sense, although their warrior box is quite limited since it doesn't contain special/heavy weapons of any kind.

>>52627300
>>52627727
>>52628072

I recommend loading up on plasma, giving yer leader a plasma pistol to use at 18 inch range or in melee, don't rely on lasguns to actually deal damage. Recommend flamethrower to discourage enemy melee, maybe even a grenadier/melee guardsman but that is optional.

Frag grenades are amazing at pinning because they're large blast, plasma has sustained fire to wipe everyone out.

So... 2 plasma gunners an a flamer, then give one or two normal guys grenades instead of having a grenade launcher. Give leader plasma pistol.

>>52630943
Bulk up your kroot models and pretend they are little mini predators. Sounds like a fun project


I hope when they add sisters of battle they maybe fluff them out a bit with some other operatives. I can't imagine an entire organization being power armoured, maybe throw in some carapace specialist so I can use my damn dreamforge Jaeger models

>>52630964

>oh yeah, 'fortifications' would be cool, for sure. Bunkers, turrets, shields, all that kind of stuff.

If it was done, I'd lean towards making it a bit less hardset than 'You get X amount of wall'. Gun turrets are something you'd buy individually but I'd lean more towards 'Your buildings are solid, reinforced walls' with the default being 'Your group is camping in half destroyed civilian buildings'

On the homebrew front: A3 is a lot for a leader but with WS 4 it's unlikely to break the game.

I'd be tempted to make Power From Pain only stop non-high impact attacks due to that whole 'Feel no pain doesn't work vs instant death' but give is the same provision dodge has. If this attack stops a wound, you are not pinned.

I'd also clarify how this works with other sources of extra saves (Like the muscle skill for melee). After all, your leader CAN get muscle.

Considering the LD 10 + Position in the society I'd be tempted to have the Archon automatically take over the Leader role for the battle it's about. That's just a fluff thing though.

Lining up with that: The Incubus is kinda dull. I'd give him another rule to help give him a particular role other than 'Slightly above average guy'. With only regular (Rather than premium) bounty on the Archon the Incubus is a hard sell.

So we've started tacking counters on to the bottom of model's bases every time they go DBNO to reflect the -1 WS/BS.

We thought it was a genius idea until fucking steely mcnob ended up getting kinged so many times that he no longer fits into cover.
Good effort on his part, but we had to take them all back off again because it was too hard to ignore the super-tall model when checking LoS.

I found some old chaos cultist i want to convert into genestealer cultist, how does this list look?

NEOPHYTE LEADER
-Autogun
-Combat blade
NEOPHYTE HYBRID
-Autogun
NEOPHYTE INITIATE
-Autogun
NEOPHYTE INITIATE
-Autogun
NEOPHYTE INITIATE
-Autogun
NEOPHYTE INITIATE
-Autogun
NEOPHYTE HEAVY
-Flamer
NEOPHYTE HEAVY
-Heavy stubber
NEOPHYTE HEAVY
-Grenade launcher (both)

>>52623851
NEED MORE MUTATIONS, SPIKES, SKULLS AND CHAOS

>>52630917
I dont need essey, just overal word if they good and fun or are they suffer being zerged by other bands with more meat. Or you lose synapse to bad roll and you can go home. Im at work(my boss like to see me type xD and cant read english so I can always say is some forum I try to find answer) I cant get big pdf with monsters and weapons on my screen.

>>52631092
Ah sorry, the archon has Premium bounty. Forgot to update the PDF (source is word file).

>Considering the LD 10 + Position in the society I'd be tempted to have the Archon automatically take over the Leader role for the battle it's about. That's just a fluff thing though.
How does this sound for the Archon:
>Tyrant: If you expend a promethium cache to hire an Archon, he counts as your kill team’s leader for all rules purposes when playing the mission.

>On the homebrew front: A3 is a lot for a leader but with WS 4 it's unlikely to break the game.
The A3 on the Dracon is just because it needed to match his codex stats. The gang will be shooting oriented, although I kind of like the idea that they can become more potent combatants via PfP and some misc equipment. Since kabalites are quite keen on the occasional brawl.

>I'd be tempted to make Power From Pain only stop non-high impact attacks due to that whole 'Feel no pain doesn't work vs instant death' but give is the same provision dodge has. If this attack stops a wound, you are not pinned.
Any source where I can get the close approximation of the wording of a rule like that? I'm not too keen on Power from Pain yet, but giving them a deep strike special rule(the other thing Kabalites are famous for) would make them too much like Genestealer cults. And Power from Pain gives them the opportunity to be in a specific niche

>Lining up with that: The Incubus is kinda dull. I'd give him another rule to help give him a particular role other than 'Slightly above average guy'. With only regular (Rather than premium) bounty on the Archon the Incubus is a hard sell.
I agree that the Incubus is nothing too special but being a melee beat stick is kinda his thing in the codex as well. And he does wield a power weapon in a gang that has not a lot of access to good melee weapons. I'd rather steal rules from other gangs, then make up my own, due to balance.

>>52630964
That pdf is garbage.
Dracon with 4WS
Scourge with 3W

Full bloddy Archon as specialist FFS I want win and all but that would be super easy mode.

>>52631241
Dude, read the free PDF on the Games Workshop website, your original post was so clueless...

Why do I keep seeing people going ga-ga over the terrain?

It looks really shit to me, both aesthetically and in terms of creating an interesting table.

Am I wrong?

>>52631271
I cant read GW pdf at work
>Dude, read the free PDF
You having fun?
>>52631273
You arent, they just got hyped for GW making new shit. Its nice but I can get nice for less $$.

>>52631273
To each their own I suppose.

So has anyone tried to homebrew a better* Necrons yet? I'm going to have a lot of down time at work today so I might give it a swing.

* more interesting

>>52631268
Your definition for garbage is kinda weird, the scourge thing is obviously a typo.

And trueborn have WS4 in the tabletop version, and so far all existing units use their tabletop stats.

>Full bloddy Archon as specialist FFS I want win and all but that would be super easy mode.
Archon has premium bounty, seems my PDF version wasn't fully updated from last thread yet. My mistake, I know.

>>52631159
Looks pretty plain, but not bad. Why the combat blade and autogun on the leader?

You have no autopistols or blasting charges, might be good to mix things up a little. Heavy stubbers are great, grenade launcher looks good for the high wounds models like tyranids.

>>52631338
Imperial Guard Sergeant, 1 attack. WS4.

>>52631263

>Incubus
Considering the role of them as bodyguards, perhaps steal the matching rule from the Necron Spec Ops? So he can take hits for the warband leader?

>Any source where I can get the close approximation of the wording of a rule like that?

Dodge from agility skills:
>If this saving throw is passed, the fighter is not pinned - They were not hit.

In your case it would be less 'Was not hit' and more 'Does not care'.

>>52631338
>And trueborn have WS4 in the tabletop version
Sorry, I still think Dracon was HQ unit, weaker archon.
I dont think Archon should be used in recon/black ops mission.
As for Specialist.
MANDRAKES!!!!!!
And Incubi could youse a little bit UMPH.
Also pls include old incubi helmet with build in splinter pistol. Do that I swear you will feel the roar of joy going trough warp from all those old fag DE players :D

File: SDW_Armaggedon_Kabalite.pdf (588KB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

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>>52630964
Normally I don't post my brew more than 1 times a thread to avoid clogging the thread with my wank.

>>52631386
>Considering the role of them as bodyguards, perhaps steal the matching rule from the Necron Spec Ops? So he can take hits for the warband leader?
While a good idea, they only guard Archon as far as I know. In the grand power structure, an Incubus is probably on the same rank as a dracon/trueborn sergeant. Also, they don't have a bodyguard rule in the codex as far as I know.

>>52631564
>I dont think Archon should be used in recon/black ops mission.
Because this is a Kabalite list, I think the epitome of the Kabal should be fieldable in some way.

>As for Specialist.
MANDRAKES!!!!!!
Mandrakes are now weird spooky ghosts, and in the path of the Dark Eldar novels are featured more as antagonists than 'friends'. I don't think a kill team has the clout to be able to coerce a Mandrake to cooperate.

>Also pls include old incubi helmet with build in splinter pistol. Do that I swear you will feel the roar of joy going trough warp from all those old fag DE players :D
The models really don't feature that in any form anymore, they don't have the scorpion shaped helmets.

Can someone spoonfeed me a list for eldar? I want to build some models, but I don't know too much about the game yet. The only thing I know is, I want to have a leader with twin catapults.

Anyone mind giving me some input on my list?

Champion 225, Undivided
Power-sword 50, Bolter 35, Camo gear 5

Gunner 130, Nurgle
Plasma gun 80, Telescopic sight 20, Photo visor 15, Camo gear 5

Gunner 130, Nurgle
Plasma gun 80, Telescopic sight 20, Photo visor 15, Camo gear 5

Cultist 40, Autogun 20, Knife 5
Cultist 40, Autogun 20
Cultist 40, Autogun 20

>>52631785
Boys before toys. Your gunners are a bit overdone. And what's with the extra knife on the one cultist? He can't use 2 when he's carrying a Basic weapon anyway.

>>52631564
read path of the dark eldar, where a high profile archon goes on a kill team mission then get back to me about why a near immortal demi-god isn't allowed to go on a low profile black ops mission

hint: you're retarded and dark eldar archons are more likely to take part in shadow wars than any other race which has rules with the exception of harlequins because this game was made for them. When you read books it's always a handful of harlequins fucking around, never an entire troupe going to war.

>>52631617
>While a good idea, they only guard Archon as far as I know. In the grand power structure, an Incubus is probably on the same rank as a dracon/trueborn sergeant. Also, they don't have a bodyguard rule in the codex as far as I know.
They guard those who pay, it dosnt need to be Archon. This isnt full 40k so why dont make excepcions if they are fun? I dont see how this would benefit DE since Incubi is "Go and murder enemy" but hey options are cool.

>Mandrakes are now weird spooky ghosts, and in the path of the Dark Eldar novels are featured more as antagonists than 'friends'. I don't think a kill team has the clout to be able to coerce a Mandrake to cooperate.
Kill team dosnt hire its members, Archon dose, and Archon can pay and perswade them to go.
Also nowels arent law.

>The models really don't feature that in any form anymore, they don't have the scorpion shaped helmets.
You are using Inferior Incubi than.
Jokes aside all mele no shoty troop in 40k is bad idea, and I still think GW made mistake taking those away.

>>52623385
Shaper
Kroot
Re-Kroot
Krotox Gunner

Spec Ops
Kroot Houndshaper
>Kroot with d6 Hounds

?????

>>52631822
Then let me have a commissar as a Kill Team Leader.

>>52624377
>Then Death cult assassin, Crusader, and Daemonhost as SO

Fuck those guys. I want the options of Eversor, Callidus, Culexus, Vindicare as my Spec Op.

Each with the Solitaire special rule of being a one man army.

>>52631814
Even if I strip the gunners I wont have enough for a marine so those items were more of a filler (same with the cultist knife) and I cant take anymore cultists but I hear what you're saying as 6 models seems low

>>52631822
Honestly, Path of the Dark Eldar what was in my mind when I was making the fan-list. Which is why I want incubi instead of Mandrakes, and fieldable Archons is just important to respect the Kabal-ness of the whole thing. And scourges already had a stat template so that's number 3 to round out the roster.

>>52631883
There's also a power sword you don't need. Strip out the camo gear, power sword, scopes, and visors, and bam, 140 pts. Drop the plasma down to flamers, and suddenly you've got one more CSM with a bolter, and an other cultist with an autogun. All at 995 pts.

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R4E8OpylaBywRCICSUYctohNAwmySD2ZJ_B1hhgVnPU/edit?usp=sharing

Did some tinkering with the Hospitaler to make her line up better with the other medic SO options. Also ended up scrapping Blessed Ammo entirely due to being unable to find a version of it I was entirely happy with and reworked polymorphine to be better at getting an ambush but possible to break.

>>52631617
>While a good idea, they only guard Archon as far as I know. In the grand power structure, an Incubus is probably on the same rank as a dracon/trueborn sergeant. Also, they don't have a bodyguard rule in the codex as far as I know.

You might need to step outside the codex to give them special rules. As the codex leaves them 'Decent but not really worth a SO slot' right now.

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what if i have all week and a hardware store nearby, how do i build enough good terrain?

>>52631958
Interesting, back to the drawing board. Thanks for your input
>>52631968
You do know sisters are getting official rules right?

>>52632069

>You do know sisters are getting official rules right?

I do. I doubt they are turning up in the next couple of weeks and I enjoy doing homebrew. That and this was started before that announcement.

>>52632054
get some grid like material and cans/pipes.

>>52631785
power sword and a bolter are a waste since the bolter prevents you from getting an extra attack in melee
choose if you want your leader to be ranged or melee

knife on the cultist is the same story , you won't get an extra attack since he's equipped with an autogun

So if I wanted to pick up the eldar for swa, how should I go about it? Guardian box and the other box, I guess?

>>52631344
What about:

NEOPHYTE LEADER
-Autopistol
-Chainsword
NEOPHYTE INITIATE
-Autogun
-Blasting charges
NEOPHYTE INITIATE
-Autogun
NEOPHYTE INITIATE
-Autogun
NEOPHYTE HEAVY
-Heavy stubber
NEOPHYTE HEAVY
-Heavy stubber
NEOPHYTE HEAVY
-Grenade launcher (both)
-Photo-visor

>>52632316
1 guardian box, 1 dire avenger box. Seriously dude, was this worth asking?

Why ever take a rail rifle over an ion rifle?

>>52632364
I was hoping there might be an easier way, or that there was some bundle (like the start collecting boxes). So, yes.

>>52632393
Ion rifle has shit long range, rail has 30" like your markerlights and no -1 at long

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Making necron list.

4x Immortals with blaster and Photo-visor.
1x Warrior with gun, visor and the last 25pt on 1 of the 2 available toys.

I COULD exchange an immortal for the sniper that positions himself *minChargeDistance* away from the enemy turn 2, but considering his only weapon option is worse than the Immortal I don't realy get why you would want that.

>>52632429

There are kill team bundles but they are just two (or more) boxes with no saving AFAIK.

>>52632393
Rail = -1 at short
Ion = -1 at long

Am I late to the party or is this pack brand new? Haven't seen or heard anything about this pack anywhere.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Chaos-Space-Marine-Kill-Team

>>52632501
>Buy entire boxes of units because the rules let you take one of them sometimes!

GW strikes again

>>52632501
The packs came out just before the actual thing was up for preorder.
So, very old news.

>>52631273
It's the first modular kit they've released, and personally I really like the gangways.

But yeah you'd probably need triple the gangways in order to fill a 4x4 table so it's really just cash gouging.

>>52632616
That and the gangways are just a path. I want to see multiple heights and/or paths for a skirmish style game.

>>52632497
>>52632436
Maybe I'm overestimating how hard terrain will make it to shoot at that long range.

Do you guys think I should take one of each, then? I realize any combination is possible, just from a versatility perspective.

I'll be up against possibly genestealers, CSM, and some sort of MEQ.

>>52632687
That's what I did. Leave your rail and their spotter back and move the Ion up with the battle line

>>52632636
I think to get the real necromunda experience you need at least 2 copies of the whole box. I hope that bits sellers will start selling the gantries soon, so I can get more gantries to link together.

By the way my local GW showed me that you don't have to glue the gantries together, they come with clips.

>>52632687
If you have a high enogh place for your sniper and spotter to get or to deploy you can cover pretty much all the field, in the worst case you can still cover 2-3 pathways and deny them to your opponent

>>52632054
There are plenty of good tutorials that show how to build good terrain with common materials that you can get in a hardware store. Google necromunda terrain tutorial and enjoy the creative output.

>>52623116
>inquisition
Inb4 they allow assassins and the lawls begin

>>52632590
To be fair there's no limit on how many spec ops you can field, and you can even have several of the same (with solitaire being the obvious exception).

>>52632344
On one hand you don't have as many guys.

On the other you have a huge amount of firepower! Woo.

Photo visor might be better on a heavy stubber guy, as I believe they have to stay still to shoot anyway.

It actually look really good to me, put some autogunners in front as meat shields and the heavy stubbers cover fire/overwhelm with 2-6 shots a turn. Try it out and see how it goes!

>>52630188
The thing with harlies is that they're broken even if you don't let them walk through walls. Being able to breeze through all terrain and ignore armour mods is removing every interesting rule Necromunda has to offer over regular 40k. They should have been an eldar special operative an nothing more.

>>52632344
>no webber

>>52633049
Mimimimi

>>52633049
>are broken

So how many games have you played so far? Considering it was only released last Saturday.

>>52632616
The imperial bastion is also modular, to a degree, but I get you.

>>52632764
>>52632715

Thanks for the input.

Is the Cadre fireblade going to be worthwhile? I don't own any stealth suits and dislike the ethereal, but it feels hard to justify throwing important resources onto giving one of my rifles two shots for one game.

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>>52633144
What did he mean by this?

>>52632749
>>52632795

If you don't want to make your own stuff, but don't want to pay GW prices for terrain, there's plenty of laser cut mdf on ebay etc. you can buy.

http://www.wargamestournaments.com/product/industrial-terrain-set/ Will cover 4x4 table and costs less than the 3 kits you'd get in the shadow wars box

>>52633176
problem is, it just doesn't look that good. While that is not a problem necessarily, but it will probably match really poorly with the plastic GW terrain.

>>52633176
With that you'd still want some extra scatter/sight blockers to make up for the lack of solid bulkheads. Small buildings, cargo containers, silos, etc. Lot of empty space on the ground level.

Not a difficult problem to solve, mind.

On the one hand we have the people who have played against clowns and go "omg broken because I lost". On the other hand we have those going "lul mah webberz kept them in a cocoon the whole game". And then there are the theorists..

>>52633146
A whole day of play testing sat, a campaign on Sunday. Years upon years of Necromunda.

It's great to play but, like inquisitor, the falling off stuff and getting messed up looses its appeal if you're the only one being affected by it. Harlequins feel nasty to play against and cheap to play as, and it sucks because I just bought a box to build a team.

>>52633229
>>52633146
Not that anon, but consider the following:

Regardless of game balance, it's anti-fun game design.

>>52633171
That's what complaining about imaginary issues sound like.

>>52633171
I think he was referring to "fishing for me's". It's sort of the go to insult if someone says something you don't like now.

>>52633176
I'm guessing "I live close to a hardware store" means anon wants to build their own, which will always be cheaper than mdf and such.

>>52633249
This anon gets it.

>>52633229
So the two options are you brought webbers or you lost? Not played but that sounds pretty broken to me. Who can take webbers again? Is it every team?

>>52633249
>>52633245
Might have been better if Flip-Belts have had given them a re-roll or something. Cuz a team/army/whatever having a huge advantage on 1 core mechanic can be fun. I think the Skitarii trait is a better example of that.

On the other hand, flip belts just giving a reroll doesn't fit with the fantasy of the Harlequins. I think part of it is also taste; the people who played Coreheim also seem to hate the 'elite' warbands.

>>52633322
Yeeeaah "webbers or bust" is obviously what I meant...

>>52633323
Agreed on both points. I feel like some kind of eldar acrobats (Rangers? Banshees?) having rerolls with an ignores terrain Leader or Special Operative would have been better game design.

>>52633364
It's certainly what you said anon. ;)

>>52633323
Maybe an initiative check to get to ignore terrain for one turn?

>>52633398
I gave two examples. Does that rule out other scenarios in your world?

>>52633323
>Cuz a team/army/whatever having a huge advantage on 1 core mechanic can be fun. I think the Skitarii trait is a better example of that.

Yes, agreed. Ignoring a game mechanic can be really fun. Hell, half of 40k is about chasing that feeling that you're getting away with something cheeky.

But when you start ignoring multiple game mechanics, or the wrong ones, it gets unfun very quickly.

>I think part of it is also taste; the people who played Coreheim also seem to hate the 'elite' warbands.

I never played that older stuff, but the warbands are in a really weird place. From what I've read, Necromunda was basically just a gang of street urchins with scavenged guns? And SWA kill teams range from plausible infiltration units to things that just don't make any sense.

I'm not convinced there's any way around it if you want to include every faction, though. The game and universe are based around gigantic conflicts, some things just won't scale well. Not to say the job couldn't have been done better, of course, for example a willingness to change unit statistics could've gone a long way.

>>52633426
I feel like, maybe I need to explain how to use the phrase "on the one hand"...

>>52633216

I think it could look ok painted up, maybe with some textured paint/fine mesh/guitar strings applied to certain areas to break up the flatness. Obviously not as good as a full plastic kit, but better than what I could make myself.

>>52633223

Very good point, some crates, barrels and barricades, plus a couple of pringle tube silo's would probably solve that.

>>52633446
Necromunda had a lot more atmosphere to it. In this case they added some of the factions because they were easily available. Not because the playerbase wanted it. As can be seen in that they will now be releasing sob and inq by popular demand.

>>52633471
>>52633223
My current plan is to get some of the armoured containers and prometheum pipes. Then maybe 1 more Magnavent. I know GW scenery is overpriced but I like the styling an sheer over the top bullshit it has.

I do need to find a good mat, and I don't the city ruins mat from GW that much so any good recommendations (needs to ship to EU) are welcome.

>>52633446
The expanded races do not balance so well, or fit with the underpowered theme. Marine army fits nicely, with scouts only and power armour being limited to special operatives. Orks and Imperial guard are still obviously low tier enough to fit in. Grey Knights are clearly a mistake.

>>52633459
Well those two (three) scenarios are all we have at the moment. That doesn't mean there won't be other scenarios in the future.

>>52633516
Google it. I was looking at amazing mats as late as yesterday

>>52632590
Would you rather new Spec Ops boxes that comes with one model for 20 bucks a piece?

>>52633164
You can easily scratch build a stealth suit with only the base

>>52633530
To elaborate, I think special operatives were a fantastic opportunity to fit in some of the higher powered 40k units, whilst keeping the game balanced and keeping that low tier feeling. However, the expanded races done fucked that notion to hell.

Our group is thinking of running core only. We did well enough with basically one set of rules for gangers, we can easily counts in what we want with three armies to choose from.

>>52633559
I really want one of those textured, rubber ones, but the only sites with decent mats I've found have a poor reputation.

>>52633589
Well personally I think they should've initially focused on the factions that were there just. Maybe after that they could've added in factions that could've been there or would have made sense being there.

>>52633530
>>52633589

Yeah. Some of it I can brainbend into working, though.

A handful of GK are dispatched as an assassination squad to quell some demonic force. I can see that.

Necrons are the hardest fit, I think, since their blurb says they were sent in just to kill everyone... with nothing but like five immortals, led by another immortal.

Tau and Scouts fit very well (except the Ethereal...), and Eldar might as well. Honestly Orks are one of the harder fits for me, but maybe they make sense to people who know more of the Ork lore.

The big hangup is just ignoring what the book says is the reason the factions are here fighting, because it's retarded, and substituting your own individualized to each faction. Then you just apply DoW logic as necessary (faction decides everyone in their must die, or has been corrupted and must be purged, or whatever else is driving them to all shoot each other on sight).

Does the fluff in the book mention any of the PDF factions?

>>52633617
What sites have a poor rep? I am in EU as well and looking to buy a mat.

>>52633638
Orks are one of the easiest fits considering fluff.

>>52633533
The only other method I've found is using a Big Shoota to pin the lot of them. It's high enough strength to get round their rule and can potentially pin a few with one round of shooting.

Having to build a team to counter one army really doesn't say much for the balance issue however. Play, experiment, find what's best for your group anon. Ours is considering a ban on harlies.

>>52633530
>Grey Knights are clearly a mistake.

I disagree. Grey Knights fit in Shadow Wars a hell of a lot better than regular 40K. As rarely does a Brotherhood (Chapter) actually mobilizes. Most in fluff example is a squad of 5 or so.

They're balanced by having such few numbers and any time they want to recruit an additional member, they'll need to burn a Cache.

I personally like they have different Gang flavors.

Elite - up to 5
Regular - up to 10
Swarm - up to 20

Personally if any army was a "mistake" I'd probably say it was Necrons and GWs choice of Eldar (imo, should of been Rangers and Striking Scorpions and Wraiths shouldn't have been Spec Ops)

>>52633663
In the group size of SWA?

>>52633664
I hear you loud and clear anon.

>>52633638
>>52633663
Yeah anon, ork spores mean that after an invasion there's always tons of buggers popping up in the pits of hives and Armageddon has definitely seen its share of orks.

>>52633691
No, in the fluff.

>>52633684
From a tonal perspective I mean. Fluff wise I'm with you.

I am going to make a mixed eldar/dark eldar Ynnari team

>>52633691
>>52633698
>>52633710
What I mean is:

It's not that there's Orks in Armageddon, it's that there's 15 Orks waging a series of skirmishes, and not 500.

>>52633691
Pockets of boys birthing from un-cleansed spores into the remains of their old camps, rallying behind the biggest ork and rampaging through the bowls of a hive. Sounds bout right.

>>52633724
Considering how cheaply they are replaced it could easily be 500. Also read the fluff in the rulebook on Von Straub and his dealings with orks.

>>52633724
See:
>>52633739

It's after Armageddons been "won" back.

>>52633763
Indeed, but it's impossible to control the goings on in every little nook and cranny of a hive. Especially the underhive is often left to it's own fancies. Not even the arbiters go down there unless specifically ordered to do so.

>>52633763
>>52633757
>>52633739
Well, like I said, those who know the fluff better.

Anyways I don't mind suspending my disbelief regardless of faction, really.

>>52633812
True, so it makes sense that there would be a few orks roaming around. Anything more would require a cleansing by the local PDF regiments, something they were instructed to do after the first war in both their hives and against the savage orks of the wastes. It also makes sense that the under hive itself would do it's part in weeding out the population, it's basically a death world down there.

>>52633164
Hell yeah it is.

>>52633885
I think the whole point is that the rulers and arbiters of the hive understand that it's best to leave the goings on in the underhive alone. Some even profit from it, like Von Straub, the overlord of Acheron, who is in league with the orks of ghazghkul thraka. Or was. Until they managed to off him.

I've posted this list in one of the older threads, but I'm playing my first game tomorrow and wondered if anyone had any thoughts?

The idea is to get Barbed Stranglers on both Gunbeasts ASAP, then get dual bone swords on the Alpha, then get another Newspawn with Scything Talons.


Tyranid Alpha 250 points

Scything Talons
Scything Talons 10
Adrenal Glands 10
Extended chitin carapace 15

Tyranid Gunbeast 225 points

Scything Talons
Deathspitter 45 points

Tyranid Gunbeast 225 points

Scything Talons
Spinefists 25 points


Tyranid New-Spawn 175 points
Scything Talons
Scything Talons 10
Adrenal Glands 10

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>>52623327
>posting Infinity in /swag/

The Sisters/Inquisition rules better be free. Otherwise they're fucking over early purchasers.

Tyranids should be using 2 boneswords, run them in, and watch them eat faces

What's the best strategy against Harlequins? It seems like they get a ton of bus and overpowered abilities with the only drawback being high model count.

According to their site, Sisters and Inquisition are going in the 2nd printing of the rulebook and digital edition. Available for pre-order on the 22nd of April.

>>52635761
Low model count not high. Not sure what I was thinking.

>>52635699
They apparently confirmed they will be in a facebook post.

>>52635761
>What's the best strategy against Harlequins? It seems like they get a ton of bus and overpowered abilities with the only drawback being high model count.


Melee is OP AF! I suggest giving up playing ranged, or arm up with grenades, and grenade spam the shit out of them.Grenades are pretty much instant knock down.

>>52635778
Are you high? :)

Can someone help me finish off/improve this list? The total only comes up to 970 points.

Dark Eldar Wych Cult
Syren - 150 points
Blast Pistol - 50 points

Wych - 80 points
Chainhook - 10 points
Blade Venom - 10 points

Wych - 80 points
Chainhook - 10 points
Blade Venom - 10 points

Wych - 80 points
Chainhook - 10 points
Blade Venom - 10 points

Wych - 80 points
Chainhook - 10 points
Blade Venom - 10 points

Wych - 80 points
Chainhook - 10 points
Blade Venom - 10 points

Bloodbride - 100 points
Shardnet and Impaler - 35 points

Bloodbride - 100 points
Shardnet and Impaler - 35 points

My thinking is that any shooting army I can beat with the combination of attacks and rerolls to wound, and any combat army I can beat by tying up their toys with the bloodbrides. Not sure if this is correct, nor where to go from here.

>>52631851
The gunner could use something like Imperial and Eldar weaponry, considering Kroot are scavengers and mercenaries.