/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

http://www.strawpoll.me/12699307

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>>52611438
That image is going to trigger a lot of vampfaggots.

>>52611438
>Do you deal with human politics in game? (has your kindred ever try to influence a politician? etc...)

I tried not to because i am not well versed in politics of any kind, nor do i have the time to get informed enough to make a proper representations of real world issues.

One of my players wants to play a politically minded werewolf deep into the LGBT community of 2003 and i nervous to handle that one so i more or less gave him card blanch to handle that however he wanted.

>>52611461
>vampires
>best at fucking
How?

Thyrsus and Mastigos would be the best.

can I take a supernatural as my waifu, or is that looked down upon?

can I take a supernatural as my husbando, or is that looked down upon?

>>52611438
Human politics is heavily manipulated by elders in my games so if neonates start trying to throw too much weight around they are very likely to attract the attention of someone older and scarier.

This is mostly done in cases where the changes PC's want to impliment are batshit insane and would result in a massive shift in world history (e.g. Nazis taking over america or something equally kooky).

>>52611505
>can I take a supernatural as my waifu, or is that looked down upon?

Very very looked down upon

>>52611515
>an I take a supernatural as my husbando, or is that looked down upon?

Nah that cool bruh.

>>52611498
Don't take this away from them. Vampfags can't let magefags or changelingwhores win. This is all they have left

>>52611498
Generally I prefer not to suffer a breaking point in the afterglow.

>>52611560
I prefer not to be bled dry during the act.

Whens hunter 2e.

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>>52611461
>how you know no one plays geist

Going to be running a Werewolf game set in the Reconstruction South, Richmond Virginia
Come check it out if you're interested.
https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/74267/the-lost-cause

The change to magic just being able to happen at the click of ones fingers was the biggest mistake Awakening made.

Makes the game too much like a superheroes game.

>>52611596
How does it feel to be this retarded?

>>52611595
What's the big difference between apocalypse and forsaken?

>>52611596
It was like that in Ascension as well, anon.

You suck at baiting.

>>52611624
Forsaken is better.

>>52611631
No it didn't. You needed to come up with rituals and foci appropriate to your beliefs or that shit just wouldn't work that was the best part of the game.

>>52611643
>what are wonders
>what are charms
>what are artifacts
>what are hung spells
>what are preparations
>what is ditching foci

You need to sit the fuck down.

>>52611624
In all seriousness, Apocalypse is about being captain planet Hitler, while Forsaken is about running your territory, and hunting. Needless to say, I consider Forsaken to be a better game.

>>52611643
>No it didn't. You needed to come up with rituals and foci appropriate to your beliefs or that shit just wouldn't work that was the best part of the game.

It really depended on how much the DM enforce it. Some shit DMs allowed for the purple paradigm bullshit or the paradigm of everything i want.

>>52611663
All of those take extensive time to make and have to be done in long drawn out thematically appropriate magics.

Wonders and artifacts alone can take years to make. And the last example is only a thing you can do when you're swimming in arete dots.

>>52611643
The speed of casting in Ascension revolves around your Paradigm.

>>52611663
Also this.

>>52611725
>All of those take extensive time to make and have to be done in long drawn out thematically appropriate magics.
>Wonders and artifacts alone can take years to make
Ummm, no? How about you pick up a fucking book called 'Forged in Dragon's Fire'. Charms literally turn you into a D&D wizard and are made in batches. They're specifically designed to be easy to concoct, same with most other Wonders.

>swimming in Arete dots
More like 3 dots, dumbass.

>>52611725
Ascension is more prep heavy compared to Awakening, and this only makes them more powerful when it comes to spontaneous magic.

>>52611461
>>52611594

It's somehow depressing that Mummy is technically beating Geist out on that... if only to think of it realistically. But hey, technically Geist isn't rock bottom if Beast couldn't even make it to the list.

>>52611596
I understand what you mean, however in Awakening your immediate spellcasting is much weaker than when you have the time to perform a full ritual, with sacraments, an appropriate ritual environment, and perhaps even a grimoire to cast from.

I mean a newly Awakened Mage attempting to instantly cast a spell he has very little proficiency in, has a dice pool of 2, and has to use Reach on instant casting.

But when you spend the time to acquire sacraments, can spend a few extra ritual intervals to boost your casting and chant in high speech, that dice pool can become as large as 6 to 11 dice. Even 10 if you don't have an Order to learn High Speech from.

tl;dr
Awakening doesn't "need" foci to cast, but it's much easier, and you can stretch your Magic much further when you have them.
Which I appreciate more.

>>52611820
It's also worth noting that higher Gnosis is going to garner severe advantages to spontaneous spellcasting.

An Adept / Master casting Psychic Domination in the blink of an eye is one of the most overpowered abilities in the entire setting.

Higher ranked mages can improvise extraordinarily easily with no need to prepare.

>>52611438

>No werewolf going "muh knot"

fail.

>>52611860
Well yeah, but wasn't the situation the same for Ascension? I'm genuinely asking, I have no idea.

Can't a high-Arete Celestial Chorus'er just pray and make whatever the fuck they want happen in a flash of light?

>>52611896
It's trickier, but yes it is the same. Specific Paradigms can also account for spontaneous magics, as well as prepared Wonders and effects, along with hung spells and ditching Foci entirely.

Alright, so group semi randomly decided that they wanted to play a vampire game, so yeah.

Ive seen a largely agreed upon idea that I should use vampire the requiem 2e online.

Any other suggestions? I know I'm being pretty vague, but i have little experience with this system in general other than the games.

>>52611624

Werewolves in OWoD are so fucking mindbogglingly fucktarded that they only exist to be torched by Hermetic mages and then peed on by their Bastet waifus.

>>52610779

Hunters are supposed to be underdogs. One time my fairest changeling managed to kill a whole bunch of Malleus hunters by using contracts to barricade their warded church without being noticed, dousing the whole fucking thing in gasoline, and flipping off crying hunters as they flung themselves out second story windows.

>you will never be a true fay and do literally whatever you want whenever you want
>you will never capture fair human women to become your harem of concubines, pleasuring you in any way possible and making you food as you shitpost on 4chan
lucky fucking bastards

>>52611969
The Hedge doesn't have internet access.

>>52611969

>You will never be captured by a curious magician who will subject you to all sorts of exciting new tortures in the name of arcane knowledge

>You will never be stalked by a Demon furious that you steal people's lives for nothing more than shits and giggles

>You will never be subjected to "cold iron sodomy" by members of ashwood abbey

why even live?

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Who loves Brown EYes?
Mage cucks love brown eyes!
Who loves Brown EYes?
Mage cucks love brown eyes!

Magecucks!

>>52611926
Focus most on atmosphere and storytelling. Vampire excels in these areas, and while it can handle combat (and there are some vampires who are good at fighting) that's not really what the game was designed around.

Or just play "assholes with superpowers", that's what my group did

>>52611624
>What's the big difference between apocalypse and forsaken?

Apocalypse mechanics are shit compared to forsaken. Thats beyond discussion at this point.

As for setting Forsaken is a game about managing your territory and hunting 6 things and variations of thereof. With a poorly implemented frenzy mechanics.

As for Apocalypse is a game or ancient warriors in modern times. I feel the true horror element of werewolf is compromise, how much you gonna let yourself go into this society to achieve what you want? Are you gonna defend equality for kinfolk and garous even when the system also exist in part to protect the kinfolks? Are you gonna take the life of baby metis black spiral dancer because she knows the location of the Sept? No? You gonna risk the lives of everyone for your conscience sake? Knowing that leaving her live is gonna add another one to the enemy numbers?

That for me is the horror of werewolf the decision you make and how seductive the garou society is for a garou. "Be a good crusader, kill the wyrm and anything standing in your way and you will get honor, power and be a hero and be right....just dont think too much. Live fast and die young in the name of our war without changing a damn thing of this vicious circle and then an eternity in valhalla awaits you" thats the speech of the garou nation at large. And the horror comes on how many garou buy it.

However i should note that you need a very VERY good DM to run werewolf apocalypse. Bad ones tend to go with the whole Captain planet thing

think of your favorite splat.

What would be a good, fitting OST for it?

>>52611860
>It's also worth noting that higher Gnosis is going to garner severe advantages to spontaneous spellcasting.

The only disadvantages of higher Gnosis in spellcasting is a slightly higher Paradox dice pool, and for mages of that caliber, it's either largely irrelevant due to inherent Reach of higher levels of Arcana and/or mitigated by their dedicated tool or mana.

High Gnosis mages are terrifying.

>>52611860
>Higher ranked mages can improvise extraordinarily easily with no need to prepare.

Higher Gnosis mages also have a higher Yantra cap to use with their spells and can hold and spend more mana to mitigate Paradox.

>>52611969
>The Hedge doesn't have internet access.

You didn't make a Contract for access to HedgeNet? So sad...

>>52612199
>Werewolf
>Tangerine Dream: Zeit
I think this is what the Hisil sounds like

>Geist
>Talk Talk: Laughing Stock
Cryptic themes about life and religion

>Demon
>David Bowie: Station to Station
Perfectly captures the paranoia and dispassionate impersonation of humanity

>>52612329
Their dice pool is also high as it is without any tricks.

>>52611808
>Spellcasting question about potency.

>All spells have a primary spell factor of either Potency or Duration. After penalties have been applied for the desired spell factors, the player may move the primary factor up its chart a number of steps equal to the character’s rating in the spell’s highest Arcanum minus one.

Page 113 in mage 2e core.

Spells that do direct damage almost always have potency as their primary factor.

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What would Kars' clan be like if he were the Antediluvian of one? What would it's clan curse be? Would it be independent, or would it join one of the major sects?

>>52612760
Kars is basically Tzimisce.

there is no greater pleasure then playing as a "weak" race like a changeling or a vamp, then playing as a "powerful" race like a mage or a demon and feeling like a god in comparison.
bonus points if you fuck around with a weaker race for fun and/or profit.

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>>52612929

>>52612929
6/10 bait. It plays off of the recent threat theme of shitposting pretty well, which is a very nice plus, but you went and made it a bit too obvious. Also you posted during dead hours.

They're different games with different themes so they attract different players. Playing one doesn't make you better than the other (although I'm sure that's not what you meant but that's what grogs are gonna interpret your post as saying).

I like vamp myself because my group likes to fuck each other other and it's great for politicing.

>>52612093
I think they want more atmospheric, low combat shit, so that'll work out.

Would you agree with starting with VtR 2e?

>>52613132
If you want to do Vampire then Requiem 2e is your best bet, it's a clear step-up from 1e and, although thematically there's a debate to be had between Masquerade and Requiem, the mechanics in Requiem are universally agreed to be better.

>>52612199
>VtR
Everything from Nostalghia. Both lyrics and this slow, lazy rhythm that picks up and becomes more sinister as the song goes on. Listen to things like Plastic Heart or Homeostasis and see if you get same vibes

>Demon
I would probably pick anything from Perturbator or Kavinskys collection.

>>52613250
Thank you.

>>52613250
I would say Requiem is more about personal experience and carving out place for yourself so it should be a good bet.

However I have to admit my games often get derailed by players deciding to do stuff like ghouling donkey that is Univerity mascot or doing job interviews for potential secretaries

>>52613267

>Nostalghia

Just listened to it for the first time and love it. But where the fuck can I find downloads for it?

>>52613532
This I can't help you with sadly since I'm using spotify for all my music

>>52613532
Another suggestion for Requiem I would give are:
>The Romanovs songs King, White Flag and Kiss
>Nico Vega
>Gary Numan
>Me and that Man

>>52611596
>The change to magic just being able to happen at the click of ones fingers was the biggest mistake Awakening made.

This wasn't a change, they only made it easier to cast on the fly without the need to prepare or take risks. Mages could always look at you dead.

>>52613819

Yeah, I don't like those. Nostalghia just clicked well for me.

If playing New Wave Requiem, google "minimal synth," you are welcome in advance

What's the old WoD metaplot regarding the first 3 crusades?

Is it just a normal mortal issue or was it secretly fueled by vampires?

>>52614346
The Tuetonic Order was secretly under thr control of Hardstats childre who had a hate boner for pagans and could only feed on Prisoners of War.

The Crusades also were a big internal conflict for Clan Lasombra.

Assamites were also pretty dominant in the conflicts on the muslim sides

And a piece of the original cross was in Acre which made the place impossible to enter for Vamps.

What the hell is wrong with Philadelphia?

And has anyone here links to good guides on how to build my own campaign in Hunters: The Vigil? I need more guidelines than what is in the official stuff.

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>>52612199

>think of your favorite splat.
>What would be a good, fitting OST for it?

Music from the Succubus Club

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vympzV240mM

>>52614766
IT'S THE EMPIRE OF THE VAMPIRE

>>52612284
Beginner here, Serious question.
What is Reach in this context? Just a general word to describe higher inherent capabilities, or a game mechanic? Also, How much does a dedicated tool do for you?

>>52614833

Deception's my favorite. Fits so well for the Ravnos.

>>52614902
Game mechanic.
Spells are at base quite weak.
They take a ritual interval to cast (starts at 3 hours), can only be thrown or touch vector, last for a few seconds, and frequently have weak abilities.

You can spend reach to make them instant casting, sensory range, advanced duration, activate abilities, have more than your Gnosis derived limit in spells active at once, and so forth.

You get free Reach by meeting, and exceeding a spell's base requirement, so a Master can squeeze a LOT more advanced factors out of a weaker spell than a novice. Rotes set your reach equal to a Master's, so they're extremely powerful for weaker Mages.

If you don't have enough free Reach, you can reach beyond what is safe for you.
Each extra Reach adds Paradox dice, which can fuck up your spell, or you.

Question! Is the Death Arcanum absolutely mandatory to become a Lich or are there perhaps other ways of prolonging your life without the meddling/dispelling of other mages without it?

Could I become a Lich solely using Life for instance?

>>52611438
What the fuck even caused the Mage spergout?

>>52611461
Fucking a Promethean should be illegal, it's basically child abuse

>>52615029
The only way to avoid Death in a way that other Mages can't simply dispel requires you to become something other than human. Even then you can still be permakilled with Unmaking.
Usually this means becoming a being that exists under the same purview as ghosts, goetia, or spirits.

Otherwise you can just use spells, like maintaining a Life spell constantly to mod your biology so you never really "age", or a time spell to freeze your body's biological clock.

>>52615042
Should we not fuck AI sexbots when we're advanced enough then?

Assuming we're all still alive by then. Backs would be cracking.

>>52615029
I mean... you wanna use life magic to prolong your life you're not really a lich. You're just alive for a long time...

>>52615057
A Lich is a mage that lives for a long time.

>>52615053
Yeah, but then you got the Tremere and body-snatching mages.

>>52615070
>Yeah, but then you got the Tremere and body-snatching mages.
Tremere are a different template in 2e, and the body-snatchers haven't been explained yet either.

>>52615029
Find a willing (unlikely) and unselfish (also unlikely) Archmaster, and the necessary Quintessence (a nigh death wish) for an Imperial spell to forever prolong yourself.

Archmasters being Archmasters though, it would be easier to discover your own method.

>>52615029
>>52615057
Couldn't a Life mage found his/her own Legacy dealing with harvesting healthy bodily material and applying it to the weakening body?

You can't dispel Legacy Attainments usually, so it would work.

>"that wizard stole muh kidney!"

>>52611505
>>52611515
only if it is a Beast

>>52615097
Kind of. Most mages see adopting a legacy as 'putting on your big boy shoes'. It's a rite of passage and generally most mages will want to gravitate towards a legacy that is both core to their ideals and carries a degree of pedigree.

Alternatively you can forge your own legacy like you suggested but despite how simple mechanically the rules lay it out, it's a deeply personal and spiritual pursuit and often one that won't win you many friends in your Order.

Additionally the legacy concept you came up with almost certainly would be a Left-Handed legact which would earn you a special kind of ire amongst the Pentacle (and remember, it doesn't take much Prime to get a look at your soul and see that you suddenly have an unknown legacy that you're refusing to acknowledge to the Hierarch or Consilium).

>>52612383
>>Spellcasting question about potency.
>>All spells have a primary spell factor of either Potency or Duration. After penalties have been applied for the desired spell factors, the player may move the primary factor up its chart a number of steps equal to the character’s rating in the spell’s highest Arcanum minus one.
>Page 113 in mage 2e core.
>Spells that do direct damage almost always have potency as their primary factor.

Okay thanks for the clarification. So going with my previous example.

Gnosis 4 arcanum 4 to kill a regular human with health of 7.

Base dicepool: 8

Penalty for potency: -10 (5 extra potency required as he get 3 potency for free because arcanum 4). And each yantra after that will take more turns to cast making it using it on combat not a viable option. But that aside says they got yantras/turns to use.

Let say he somehow can justify 2 tools for the spell: +2 (+1 turns)
Mantra:+2 (+1 turn)

And uses concentration yantras for a +2. (+1 turn)

So for a somewhat secure success (Dicepool of 4) i need 4 turns of uninterrupted casting. Which makes combat magic face to face inefficient unless one got a rote with applicable mudrass (Do using mudras take an action? it doesn't say).

Though the aimed spell rules could tip it, if one could use the successes of the aimed spell rules to add bonus to the roll.

>>52616077
You get 4 Potency. Everything starts at one, you then move up the chart (Arcana -1) steps.

The first yantra you use is reflexive and doesn't add to the casting time. High Speech is the exception and always takes a turn.

If he has 7 health you only need 7 damage.

Base of 8 dice
Base Potency: 4

-6 for potency 7. You have two dice left.

Dedicated/Path/Order tool gives you 1 die, if applicable. Being your first yantra this is reflexive.
spend a willpower and gain 3 more dice. You now have 6 dice and a really good chance of success.

If you cast this at range and instantly the target will drop if a normal human with 7 health levels.

>>52615070
A lich is usually doing some manipulation to the soul for extended lifespan. A reaper is using souls for various left handed practices. The tremere are a wonderful combination of the two.

>>52616077
I haven't kept up with this entire topic. Why do you need to do direct damage instead of anything else to end a fight?

At the adept level there are several easier ways to finish combat.

>>52616812
Because classic pewpew weezard?

>>52616828
Sure, but you could also use space to teleport a dude 30 feet straight up so that he suffer 10 lethal damage from the fall, or use spirit to send him into twilight/shadow to get torn apart by your minions, or use life to seize all his muscles so he's incapable of moving, or mind to make him kill himself, or fate to curse him so any attack will only hurt himself, or matter to turn the air in his lungs into nerve gas, or forces to increase gravity to 8 times earth normal etc.


Like if the end goal is to take a dude out of a fight there are easier ways that are gentler to your wisdom.

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Are there lichs in Ascension?

>>52616812
>Why do you need to do direct damage instead of anything else to end a fight?

Because i want to make direct magic a viable option in my games. Less mages casting in their sactums safely and more them being face to face casting. Personally i find it more dramatic than the whole who snipes the other first.

As for why not just teleport them 1000 feets in the air, that raises a good question. Why fraying exist when indirect damage is better

>>52617044

Kinda sorta, they get mentioned here and there but are very minor. I could sworn there was philactery merit.

>>52617046
>Why fraying exist when indirect damage is better

Because of shielding spells and withstand which are harder to deal with at lower gnosis/non whiteroom scenarios.

What are everyone's favorite examples of editing derp from WoD? Mine is probably from the Ordo Dracul book: "Muslim scholars and scientists were testing hypotheses long before the birth of Christ."

>>52617046
>Why fraying exist when indirect damage is better
Fraying exists as a Practice because it's a viable and distinct application of magic, and codifying the applications of magic is what the Atlanteans were going for. It's also a perfectly viable application in the right situation, and one anon already laid out how to get a good pool on fraying spells. Sympathetic magic is fine as is. If you've been playing games where it's the only thing that happens then you should probably talk to your ST or something, because that's gay.

>>52617136

Thought that was a typo and meant "hypotheses that dated back before the birth of Christ"

>>52617279
>Sympathetic magic is fine as is.

Except is not fine for what i wanna hack the game for, more face to face offensive magic and less casting from your sanctum/using space 2

>>52617548

I kinds agree, Sympathetic casting is way too easy as is. Sympathy should require something that really matters to someone for the best results, not just bodily detritus.

But I've always liked arranging nasty accidents in combat as opposed to fireballs down main street.

The place for fireballs is the dark alley behind your sanctum where a bunch of pit-bulls and spider monsters refuse to shut the fuck up. I'm trying to divine hidden meaning in old TV test patterns with my gothy sin-eater waifu.

Fucking shadows are too crowded, I swear.

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So what does C/WoD general make of Beast's "census?"

>>52617827
That is an awful lot. I would say 2 million city I'm using now has arond 200+ supernaturals and number of those do not even live in the city

>>52616587
>You get 4 Potency. Everything starts at one, you then move up the chart (Arcana -1) steps.

I though you started with 1 and could only move potency up to maximun of Arcanum -1. Meaning at arcanum 4 you could only move potency to maximun of 3.

What you says is that it adds to base potency for bonus to a maximum of arcanum -1. Meaning that base potency + 3 (as maximum).

>>52618380

I assume 2/3 of them are normals with supernatural experiences, and 3/4ths of the remainder are "lesser" supernaturals or unique freaks of some kind or another.

>>52618479
We got two mages Mike and Larry. Mike is a master e.g. arcana 5 and Larry is a disciple e.g. arcana 3.

They both cast a spell where potency is the primary factor. Mike's spell will be default potency 5 and Larry's will be 3.

They cast a spell where the primary factor is duration. Mike's spell will be 10 turns by default. Larry's will be 3 turns.

>>52619007

Ah so its a maximum potency equal to arcanum (1 free initial potency + (arcanum -1))

>>52619036
Nope, not maximum, default.
Larry could also have a spell that lasts 10 turns, he just has a harder time doing it.

>>52611461
>>52611594
>>52611815
Holy fuck, Geist finally got votes

Been out of the loop for a while, can someone give me the rundown on beast?

>>52619312
>Nope, not maximum, default.

I meant the free maximum before starting to take penalties.

So a mage with forces 4 could ramp the potency of the spell up to 4, after that he would start taking penalties.

>>52619403
>Been out of the loop for a while, can someone give me the rundown on beast?

Is shit and represent 90% of everything wrong with OPP.

>>52619403
you play as a guy or waifu that has a bunch of shitty nightmares.
one day your nightmare eats you, and it slides itself into your body as your new soul, but it was actually your soul all along. Kinda. It's weird.

Anyway, you get a bunch of monster attack powers and nightmare mind powers, and you also have a personal demiplane that you can make overlap onto the real world. When you're in your demiplane, you can turn into the giant monster you are inside. All the monster kinds are based on primal fears, and beasts gain power from doing a specific kind of monstery action like collecting things or scaring people.

there are people called heroes that are deicated to killing beasts who are made that way because of beast nightmares. they're all shitty people, and can "enforce" weaknesses onto monsters like in the fairy tales.

basically you're a big otherkin bully guy.

>>52619514
Fuck you Beast is fun. Anakim juggernaut for life.

>>52619537
How different is it to earthbound or whatever it's called

>>52619491
I'm not sure if that mage actually does something to raise the Potency, if they have Forces 4, all their spells will be Primary Factor 4 by default. Though I guess you could make the spell weaker, if you wanted. The important thing is that you can't distribute these "free points" to something other than the Primary Factor.
Well, unless you change the Primary Factor with Reach, I suppose.

>>52619579
it's VERY different from Earthbound.
For one, there are no aliens.

>>52619583
>I'm not sure if that mage actually does something to raise the Potency

Uhm raising the potency of fraying? That what a mage do to raise the potency of a spell, you take a -2 for each extra potency after the "free maximum" (1+ (arcanum -1))

>>52619545
Have fun continuing to play with yourself forever, anon.

>>52619647
I can't remember there being aliens in earthbound, how did they fit in with the demons?

>>52619864
there were no demons in earthbound, either. it was all either psychics, aliens, spirits, or miscellaneous beings like the crows.

>>52619875
I think he means the earthbound from old demon.

>>52619875
The earthbound were demons lad..

So, in Blood and Smoke, the Touchstone merit adds a new touchstone attached to a lower level of Humanity... but what I want, more than anything, is something to lower the level of a Touchstone I already have, so that it won't be lost as easily. Is there anything I can do to do that?

>>52620070
>So, in Blood and Smoke, the Touchstone merit adds a new touchstone attached to a lower level of Humanity... but what I want, more than anything, is something to lower the level of a Touchstone I already have, so that it won't be lost as easily. Is there anything I can do to do that?

You could talk to your DM, buy the merit to represent a new touchstone at the lower level and swap them. Put a new one where the original one was.

>>52620203
^This, talk to your ST.

>>52620203
To clarify, I only want one Touchstone at a time. More Touchstones means more vulnerabilities for just one extra die.

>>52611438
Is Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom as racist at Kote? Someone told me that there's a masturbatory amount of detail about European colonialism in the book.

>>52620693
Old White Wolf had a problem.... They've gotten better though.

>>52617548
>Except is not fine for what i wanna hack the game for, more face to face offensive magic and less casting from your sanctum/using space 2

Ummm, you still can? Nothing is preventing you from doing that. Mages get down-and-dirty all the fucking time. You're looking at Awakening too simply, anon. There are many different ways of fighting as a mage, and you need to learn this fast.

>>52620799
>Ummm, you still can? Nothing is preventing you from doing that. Mages get down-and-dirty all the fucking time. You're looking at Awakening too simply, anon. There are many different ways of fighting as a mage, and you need to learn this fast.

Okay but it seems casting from your sanctum is an all around better option. As sympathetic magic is too easy (you barely need to know the target to cast it) and as you are in your home there is normally no time constrain so you can add as much yantras as you can add.

So bigger dicepool, easy of sympathetic casting and the security of you home vs nothing really, there isnt any advantage to cast face to face. Even worse because casting face to face without space you need to pass a "Gnosis + firearms/athletics" roll first.

>>52621220
>not everyone is going to have space
>mages being mages, will know how to put up defense
>awakening is a cold war, most mages fight non-mages

>>52619647

Check Compacts and Conspiracies under "Cheiron."

Also best fansplat

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-fPVMwMZdnrJZiJkUVIYKCHTQnfmq0fiLqUhlLBGif4/edit

>>52620693
I've HEARD that it was actually pretty good. I haven't read it though. Apparently it had cool bloodlines though

>>52620693
>Is Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom as racist at Kote?

Kinda. It's... not *horrible*, but it still has its issues.

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why does the mage 2e book only have a single Legacy? what if I don't want to be Miss Marple with magic powers? and why did they change the rules for Legacies just enough so that converting from older books is a pain in the ass?

>>52621383
Thats not Chosen of the Ripple (though I now dare people to run a Crossover)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HoCgoLAnK2blvtrin4hFRK32LF2l4VbSZtnA6UxU84w/edit?usp=sharing

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>>52621416
it really did

>>52621562
Rules for Legacies now actually exist in the first place.

There is also only 1 example Legacy because there are rules for making them literally just before it. This not only gives GMs a lot more leniency in populating their cities with custom legacies but lets players make their own legacies a lot easier. If you want conversions of older Legacies, look on the onyxpath forums for people's conversions.

>>52621596
Except the example Legacy doesn't even follow the rules given.

The rules given make shit Legacies.

One of many reasons why Mage 2e is a mess and garbage.

>>52621616
Except it does follow the rules. And I literally just went to the book to check over each attainment.

Stop being dumb please.

>>52621712
>Stop being dumb please.

That's a pretty steep demand, considering this is 4chan.

Do you guys happen to have an New World of darkness/Chronicles of Darkness conversion guide? Been looking for one for a while.

>>52621736
True. Maybe I'm just expecting too much of /tg/ these days

>>52611461

Could I gain arcane experience by experimenting with life and mind magic during sex? Could I use sex as a rote?

What was White Wolf thinking when they thought metis in WtA were a good idea?

>>52621831
They weren't thinking.

>>52621831

"Vampires have forbidden romances with consequences. Why not Werewolves?"

>>52621831
YIFF BEHBIES :3

I'm still angry about Forsaken 2e dropping the concept of the unihar. That shit was perfect for keeping the furfags far away.

ew knots

gross

>>52621855

Forsaken didn't need Unihar to keep furries away. Being Werewolf the Forsaken was enough to keep them away. Having Garuru be a timed form was the better deterrent anyways.

>>52621961
I JUST WANT FURRIES TO GET RIPPED APART BY GHOST DEMON BABIES OKAY

>>52621983

Wouldn't they just...play without them anyways? The game at least breaks if you let characters stay in Gauru, nothing changes all that much without the Unihar, even the social rules are still like "Hey don't do that".

Either way, Forsaken's less popular with Furries cause you can't be in werewolf form all the time and the 1e focus on spirit cops tends to turn them off. Figuratively, I would assume.

>>52621570

Nope, But it's the only one i've seen that has a solid conceptual foundation and could work in CofD

>>52621596

I'm still pissed about the hatchet job Dave did on the concept for Blank Badges, and worse, how someone on OPP basically looked at the splat and made them social workers.

>>52622088

I think the "not being able to be in wolf-man form all the time" was the deal breaker for Yiffpocalypse fans.

>>52621831
Why? What's wrong with metis? And no, I'm not a furfag. I'm a V:tM-fag

>>52622195
Besides the furshit the other issue is cheap and easy drama. Being a Metis in W:tA is like being an orphan in other games.

>>52622195
Every Metis is fucked up

Is there a way to make Beast work?

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>>52622329

NO

>>52621220
>implying everyone will know space
>implying that you can't defend from sympathetic magic
>implying that everybody uses sympathetic magic for everything
>implying sympathetic magic isn't a two way street

>>52621831
>werewolves fucking werewolves and having retard offspring is a problem
>not humans literally fucking wolves
Metis is fine, Lupus is fucked up and wrong on just about every level though

>>52615790
Lol @ Consiliicucks in 2e. They are as effectual a body as the UN and mediate between cabals (where the real power is.) If you have a strong Hierarch you deserve whatever you get.

>>52622451
Wolves can fuck wolves too, and for a human werewolf to have children with a wolf, he must be in lupus form

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>>52621590
Laibons are pretty good in VtES but I've never read the Ebony Kingdom book so I have no idea how bad it is re: Colonialists were all evil white devils/Zulu Vampires dindu nuffin

>>52622504
However you justify it, you're still fucking wolves.
Lupus *form* shouldn't even exist imo

>>52622573
There should be just two forms: Homid and Hispo

>a splat where you play as lovecraftian entities
how would you make it work?

>>52622329
I've been out of the loop for a while, what the hell is Beast and why does everyone hate it?

>>52621903
I'd let a werewolf pound my throat.

>>52622329
Sure I guess. I mean anything could work with enough retooling. The larger question is why bother? The other gamelines all play well, it's not like you can't just play those and ignore beast.

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>>52622679

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>>52622610
Crinos can be done right, but as is in WtA it's not.
I'm cool with Lon Chaney Jr. style wolfman Glabros too

>>52622706
>t. magefag

>>52622679

a poorly thought out attempt at the bygone beastiary in nwod that goes full SJW

>>52622662
Basically you just play Demons, but with the role of the God Machine taken up by your Gods, and where your problem isn't hiding from Angels, but stopping mortal and other "monster" cultists from performing the rituals to summon them.

Think Hellboy.

>>52622679
the idea is that you play as a guy who's big ass monster on the inside with nightmare powers.

It doesn't deliver the idea all that well, especially in how it keeps trying to force that a lot of these monsters are totally good people.

>>52621220
>I don't need to eat
>I don't need to sleep
>My spells are all purpose and last forever
>I don't even pay rent on my sanctum so it's all cool

More specifically:
>Who needs real names? How do I get them? It's a mystery.
>Who needs levels of sympathy? How do I get them? It's a mystery.
>What am I gonna do if someone has casted 'Ward'? Or just isn't on a plane I can interact with? It's a mystery.

Most importantly:
>What the fuck am I even gonna be doing if I'm spending all god damned day casting spells
>Time is infinite

I love Mage deeply but I usually hate playing with others because so many of them, so many, they just go full solipsist or autist and refuse to play a character and instead play a set of dice.

>>52622345
>implying sympathetic magic isn't a two way street

different anon, but isn't it? Unless both know each other, you could take a photo from afar or just make a drawing without the other knowing and it wouldn't be a two way street

>>52619647
>For one, there are no aliens.
Look if there's one game you should assume all other splats exist for it'd be Beast, even more so than Hunter where you can use 'sort of similar antagonists' rather than aiming at a full crossover game.

And Mummy has ayyy lmao in it on the fringes if you look hard enough.

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>>52622610
>There should be just two forms: Homid and Hispo
>Homid and Hispo
>literally wants Twilight werewolves

>>52622329
it's simple
don't treat Beast as a full game. Have only one or two members of a party be a beast. The rest can be anything from vamps to changelings to hunters.

>>52622769
>>I don't need to eat
>>I don't need to sleep
>>Time is infinite

What this have to do with anything? No seriously, i wasnt talking about 24/7 casting.

In my example of the Gnosis 4 mage he would have 4 yantras to use which would take 3 turns to gain the full bonuses to all of them and maybe make the casting 1 hour for an extra bonus.

So the whole bullshit argument of "mage need to eat/sleep" doesnt apply when they only need optionally 1 hour of casting.

>>What the fuck am I even gonna be doing if I'm spending all god damned day casting spells

I am taking about aimed spells vs casting from the sactum. Not implying mages spend 24/7 casting.

>>I don't even pay rent on my sanctum so it's all cool

Irrelevant.

>>52622769
>>Who needs levels of sympathy? How do I get them? It's a mystery.

Getting sympathy again someone is too easy with 2nd ed mage.

>>What am I gonna do if someone has casted 'Ward'? Or just isn't on a plane I can interact with? It's a mystery.

I grant you the first one but the second one is irrelevant, i couldnt cast an aimed spell at someone if we both on different planes neither.

And now, an average Mage: the awakening session.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGcUBw0GUUQ

>>52623027
>harry potter
>not just shitting his pants and zapping it away
shit fanfiction

>>52622959
Thanks for proving my point completely here.

>>52622959

To be fair, almost no WoD characters have day jobs, and I generally imagine the Consillium has some money for grants and stipends for services. Because if they didn't everyone would join the Assembly rather than take orders from Hierarch McFuckface

>>52622662
You're Mi-gos. Convince people to let you put their brains in cans to replenish Mi-go points.

>>52622788
Iirc, once you make use of that connection then your target will know, if they're a mage, and can then use it to send something back your way if you don't get the one-hit kill. If they know enough Space, that is, but that anon seems to think every mage and their grandma knows enough Space.

>>52623792
>If they know enough Space, that is, but that anon seems to think every mage and their grandma knows enough Space.

To be fair to the other anon i have never been in a mage game in which all the PC didnt have space enough to cast symphatetic.

However i mostly played 1st (where space wasnt the inferior arcanum of any path) so i dont know if they change it in 2nd to make it more difficult to get.

>>52623250
>Thanks for proving my point completely here.

What point?

>>52623841
Space still isn't inferior for any Path.

>>52623841
I've however been in many

Not everyone invests in Space. Some people would rather invest in another utility like Fate for Hanged Spells or Prime for Universal Counterspell

>>52624142
In a lot of the games I've played I've seen most of the players go for Life as a third Arcanum, which always seemed silly to me.

>>52624211
Makes sense to me. Healing, self-buffs...

>>52624211
Well to be fair, Life is one of the easiest Arcanum to use. Healing, transformations, diseases, buffing and debuffing physical attributes...

>>52624211
I know, Life (bar inflicting powerful Conditions with Control Instincts) is garbage below 3 dots.

>>52622719
I never got what's soooo bad about that page. So it's a modern culture, 4channy type character. What's wrong with that?

Does anyone have the pdf's of Conquering Heroes and Tooth and Nail?

>>52624290
You really suck at magic then.

>>52624301
people are just mad that they are getting portrayed as terrible people for being trolls

>>52624301
She's disgusting. Almost as bad as dick-eggs.

>>52624282
>>52624288
I'm not saying choosing Life is silly, I'm saying having a bunch of people all go in on it for one game is.

>>52624290
Life Ruling allows you to both puppetmaster a person, or just do things like "Make all their muscles lock up" or literally anything else that a person's body "Could do"

>>52624340
Okay, that's fair, I'm meh towards her myself. But what makes you say that?

>>52624326
Life at 1-2 dots can grant you special senses, hide you from living beings, enhance your biology in minor ways, impose conditions, and draw/repel people.

Forces at 2 dots can bend the fundamental forces over a fucking barrel.
Mind at 2 dots can fuck people up beyond belief.
Fate at 2 dots can break the game.
Matter at 2 dots can kill hordes of enemies in seconds.
Space at 2 dots creates mystical cold war of avoiding reciprocal sympathetic attacks.
Time at 2 dots means that you can never, EVER be sure your secrets are secret.

>Y-you must just be bad at magic

>>52624357
No, it allows you to impose a Condition upon them.
Which can have the practical effect of them deciding to do what you want (a la path of least resistance), but it doesn't compel them.

>>52624301
Because it's implying gamers are nothing but monster's pawns?

People don't like it when the games spit in their faces

>>52624421
Well, I mean, I've been a gamer since 1985, and I somehow managed to avoid trolling or doxing anyone during that whole GG shitfest.

I don't think the two are necessarily inherently connected.

>>52624396
Space 2 created the need for Shadow Names, which means that only cabalmates really ever know each other's real names, if that.

Fate is only broken if your GM is an idiot

>>52624488
Oh no, you said it. Those two words...

Now this thread is as good as dead. Good job Anon.

>>52624421
Holy shit, is it? Because that sounds like a gross extrapolation of what it's saying. Nerds and anti-social people have been stereotyped in world of darkness since forever, and it's not like it's saying all gamers are being controlled, just that she preys on sub-community of them.

Are you saying that trolls don't exist?
Or that they're not manipulated sometimes?
Should the games put the communities that play them on some sort of pedestal or something?

>>52624488
>>52624421
Of course, I also managed not to write a TTRPG where the Antagonist splat was openly a parody of the dickheads of GG, too.

Not many people on the extremes of either side in that mess came out very clean.

>>52624511
Well, I don't play Mage or Vampire, maybe I was just subconsciously jealous of having not personally wrecked a wod thread yet.

You can command pathogens with Life 2. Why wouldn't you want to do that?

>>52624523
I feel like the people who most needed to be buried in that avalanche of shit are still out there, annoying me.

>>52624495
>Fate is only broken if your GM is an idiot
And by "idiot" do we mean "refuses to let you cast Exceptional Luck, Shifting the Odds, and Serendipity"?

>>52624633
Exceptional Luck gives you or your target a +/- equal to Potency. In most scenarios people are not gonna get higher than a WP's worth of dice, give or take a die or two. Gonna tell me that WP is broken?

Serendipity is "GM can I please have a plot hint?" and only gets broken when you get into Reach with it.

Shifting the Odds just gives you temp Contacts/Allies/Resources, and still makes you wait even up to an hour with Reach. Though I suppose Serendipity can help out with it if you are lucky enough to not get caught up in another plot's hook

This thread reeks of Dark Archon.

>>52624719
Dark Archon you say?

>REEEE master fights are like wild wild west gunslinging REEEE
>REEEE exceptional successes overpowered REEEE
and now
>REEEE every mage ever has space REEEE
>REEEE direct magical combat is impossible REEEE

>>52624712
Add in a Rote, and it's easy to get Potency up to 3, 4 or even 5 even at char-gen.
Plus, you don't need to just take the bonus dice, you can also take 9 or 8 agains, and beneficial Conditions. Combine those together, as well as with a reflexive casting, and you have a frankly ludicrous bonus to anything you want. Did I mention it can affect spellcasting?

The other two are yes, mostly plot spells. However they are powerful plot spells, and are almost universally applicable. Something almost no other Arcanum has available.

>>52624773
Dark Archon is wrong about a lot of things. He's only correct about ES Unmaking being fucking ungodly powerful, but that's the entire point.

You don't fuck with Masters.

>>52624795
Okay, congrats, you have a really good spell that turns your mana into the Inspired condition or WP+

>>52624817
Exactly, it's broken.

1 Mana for a large number of universally applicable boons, acquirable reflexively?

Which can also be acquired without the mana cost for a few seconds of concentration and casting, which also frees up more time for yantras meaning you can acquire even larger benefits?

Also it's far more than the Inspired condition, or more powerful willpower.
It can be combined with Willpower usage, as well as other Conditions.

>>52611461
Mages wouldn't be "best at fucking". They rely on spells and rituals to make up for their own weaknesses. Werewolves would be better contenders simply from raw animal sexuality. Or maybe Ashwood Abbey Hunters if you're into really kinky shit.

>>52624817

I think that's the issue. It's vastly more applicable than other types of magic and very, very potent. It also stacks with willpower usage.

>>52624804
>You don't fuck with Masters
Masters can garner chances exceeding 90% when fishing for Exceptional Successes. Even without using all of their various tricks.

It's nearly impossible to defend against these wizards unless you're another mage.

>>52623856
>Can't read

Sasuga grog-chan. Fuck off, shitwit.

>>52624865
There was a point in time where werewolf was winning by a 10 vote margin

>>52625173
The magefags clearly outnumber the werefags.

>>52625211
>implying I'm not a Woof-fag before I'm a Magefag

>>52625221

>Mage Supremacy

>>52624804
Unless you're a Tremere, Exarch pylon, Scelestus, or any other dangerous weird shit that's better at magic than you/immune to your magic.

>>52624513

well they kinda are, only it's the rpgnet crowd they're saying dindu nuffin

>>52621740
What is there to convert? Mostly unless it involves morality/integrity it's a pretty straightforward change.

>>52625247
Tremere and the Scelestus aren't actually more powerful, they just do questionable things.

The Mad tho...

>>52625247

What things ARE there that can no-sell mage spells?

>>52625319
Other mages and the god-tier enemies they face, such as archmages, ochemata and the bound, etc.

Some splats have anti-magic abilities, but they can be nullified using Prime.

>>52624301
She doesn't seem to do the 'lesson' angle that the Beasts are dealing with. She just... is a horrible asshole.

>>52625385
The lessons thing is shit though.

Can Masters really Unmake you with little to no difficulty once they reach Gnosis 5+ ?

Isn't it Withstood?

>>52625440
I agree. Beast is a horrible mash-up of fucked up and messed-up concepts that don't mesh. The concept of 'avatar of fear' is a really awesome concept, especially with the 'overlay your Lair into the world' type aspect, giving it a bit of that horror movie 'OH SHIT WHAT THE HELL IS THIS' or Silent Hill-esque angle (in particular, the 'lesson' aspect makes me think of a less successful Silent Hill). But it was badly done.

>>52624865

Don't underestimate the sheer desperation of a promethean

also between mummy and geist i'd say 10 people are die-hard necrophiles

>>52625385

To be fair that angle never really came off in beast except where they try to shoehorn it in

>>52625469
I feel like half of what Beast is can be done with vampires, and the other half can be done with Autumn Court changelings.

>>52625385

Isn't she a Super Beast (Insatiable) though?

>>52625469
I'm holding onto hope for Beast 3e though.

What's up faggots
What are we fighting about today?

>>52625440
this.
all beasts are horrible assholes, the lessons thing is just an excuse white wolf pulled out of their ass to make them seem less evil.

>>52625464
>Isn't it Withstood?

Exceptional success bypass withstood.

>>52625521
Whether or not Dalu/Glabro has a knot

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>>52622552
>>52621590
>>52621555
>>52621416
Just sat down and rest Kotek. This shit looks like the fucking racist comics that get posted on fucking /pol/. The ventrue are fucking comic book villains that get called the "white demons" or some shit that end up colonizing the continent.

Oh, and did I mention that African vampires are mechanically weaker than normal ass kindred with absolutely compensation for it.

You lose a generation. You lose like 2 dice on rolls and you are bound by two types of morality which makes them unplayable.

Like, I was born in Morocco. It's like white wolf thinks that remote, tribal people are the entirety of Africa. This book is shit.

>>52625536
Dalu: probably not.
Glabro: I imagine you can choose whether or not to have one.

>>52625310
>The Mad tho...

Did they have any mechanical advantage?

>>52625534
Exceptional Success doesn't ignore Withstand, it makes it so full potency hits if it gets past Withstand

>>52624944
>Sasuga grog-chan. Fuck off, shitwit.

Make me, DaveB fanboy.

>>52625537
Jarring racism was definitely a feature of early White Wolf; nWoD probably made the right call by not creating regional variants of any splats in the same way.

>>52624795

Well, now i know what i will be nerfing for my next mage game.

This game is fucking mess sometimes.

>>52625562
Ummm no. Exceptional Successes gives you options, one of which is to ignore and bypass Withstand. Unmaking doesn't deal damage and kills the target in one go.

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>>52625562

>>52625553
They can gain arcane beats at an astonishing rate.

>>52625562
>Exceptional Success doesn't ignore Withstand, it makes it so full potency hits if it gets past Withstand

No, one of the options of achieving an Exceptional Success is ignoring Withstand.

Mage, p. 328:

Exceptional Success: The spell’s effect takes place better than
imagined. The character regains one spent point of Willpower,
and the player may choose one of the following results:
• A bonus step in the primary spell factor.
• A Reach in the primary spell factor.
• A Condition which will give Arcane Beats when resolved,
on either the mage or her subject.
• All Mana spent on the spell is refunded, and the mage
receives one more point of Mana.
• The spell ignores any Withstand levels and takes effect at
full Potency

>>52625310
DaveB posted a couple interesting notes about how the Tremere and Scelestus run mechanically on the official forums. They're definitely dangerous. A qlipoth would be like a Counsilia wide threat.

>>52625537
Batman (via Bloodlines) was the only good thing to come from Ebony Kingdoms.

>>52625682
Link?

>>52625682
Of course there are exceptions, such as a Qlipoth, but you don't rise above the rest that easily.

>>52625713
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/1074886-controlling-paradox-scelesti

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>>52624513
>targets specific sub-communities without a single shred of artifice distancing them from the real thing, as is done by courtesy to every other sub-community out there
>makes retarded straw-man extrapolations that deflect from the fact that it's no different if they went 'the wahabbi's are just evil fae boggarts from deep within the dunes' or 'the aboriginals are just mud-men zombies' or the like, 'atheists are just braindead cthuloids puppeteered by x sect of mages'

You know EXACTLY why it's a problem and yet you just wanted to have your smarmy comeback because its a group of people you don't give a fuck about. Fine, but Onyx Path has bent over backwards to try to unfuck its stereotyping and virtue signalled hard to that effect, so even if we're cutting them some slack, at best, it's a giant step backwards. Fuck off.

>>52625568
Easily done, adopt a trip so I can filter your worthless input to this thread from here on out.

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>>52625571
So I brought this up in my gaming group because I wanted to try playing a different type of kindred. I handed in my my character sheet and shit and the st told me that my kindred couldn't take the abomwe on my vampire in addition to me having o adhere to all the bullshit fucking restrictions of these vampires. Meaning I'm gimped as a 14th generation kindred, I get less dice rolls, and I have to adhere to the shitty morality system as well.

Their response:

"Hurr Durr, the world if darkness isn't supposed 2 be fair. Stop attacking my racist caricatures, snowflake!"

Yeah, the supplements were pretty bad, but I hope that onyx path revises them. Either that, or I'm going to take a stab at revising this cluster fuck myself.

>>52625623
>>52625631
>>52625668
This is basically mechanical proof that Masters are unbeatable in white-room situations.

So I've decided to give the Jiangshi Praestantia instead of Celerity, and ruled they can use it to jump abnormally long distances (Hopping Vampires, natch). What would be a good bonus distance per dot?

I always use the sleepers or some variant of it for VII, and it's generally accepted that Malkavians are immune to the meme.

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>>52625768
If old White Wolf was British, I think the WoD would have looked something like this.

>>52625794
Normal jumping distance per the core for Str + Athletics + Vigor, multiplied by the total dots of praestantia.

>>52625769
Good luck trying to get through withstand though. Unmaking isn't that strong when you can't rely on exceptional successes all the time.

If it was up to you, how would you fix Beast: The Primordial?

>>52625765

If i have to read your kind of annoying shit praising mage being OP as "the whole point" you get to read me telling you to go fuck yourself. We are stuck with each other deepshit.

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>>52625794
Celerity does fit Jiangshi really well, though, maybe consider their having some level of affinity for it, still.

Hm. One meter per dot, perhaps? You normally jump 1/3 meter per success, so that'd be a pretty big bonus, but it's not very impressive, supernaturally speaking...maybe 2 or even 3 meters to achieve that "woah" effect.

>>52625886
I'd erase it.

It was only ever Otherkin: The Revenge Fantasies, at best.

>>52625886
Beasts don't necessarily feed on fear; they're mutated by humanity's collective fear, humans who were transformed into monsters due to resonating particularly strongly with a particular type of fear (kind of like Bound). Heroes, meanwhile, do feed on fear, and spread it as much as possible; however, they get more juice from having other people be feared and not themselves, so they gather and incite mobs to attack what they're afraid of. They come into contact with Beasts mostly because they're really easy to draw public fear from, but of course Beasts are no pushover.

>>52625886
Well see >>52622717
But mostly, besides the generic mechanical retooling, fixing the balance of individual powers and so on, it's mostly fluff.
I'd essentially stress that the world has grown out of the whole beasts/heros thing. The beasts and heroes are two old cranky dudes, reincarnated or whatever through the ages and having the same tired grudge matches while the world has moved on. You can postulate that one is 'more right' than the other, but at the end of the day they're both vestigial to the current age.

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>>52625887
So if I never once praised Mage as being 'OP', and in fact have been criticizing the moron (you?) waxing stupid about casting all day in a locked room...

>(b-b-but it's only an hour of spellcasting if you are Gnosis 4, neverminding that its nearly Master level and should require a huge amount of story and player investment to get there unless I'm ignoring LITERALLY every other mechanic except spellcasting!)

...does this mean that I can be rid of you and that you'll stop shitting up every thread complaining about mechanics operating in a fucking vaccuum like the grognard you(?) are?

>>52625886
>erase all attempts at making beasts the good guys
>have beasts feed off on things like brutality or fair maidens instead of just fear
>you can turn into an actual monster more often
>in general make it edgier, make beasts more monstrous, and make it obvious that they're malicious abominations and not good people

>>52625990
Because narrowing the number of concepts you can play is a... good thing?

>>52626025
Sorry, have you read Beast: the Primordial? Versatility of concepts is not the issue the poster you're replying to is trying to whittle down. It's the ambiguity of the tone.

>>52625875
See >>52624879

Masters can eventually garner Exceptional Successes on a daily basis. You're fucked even with Withstand, because it doesn't matter to them.

>>52626062
I have, and it sucks shit, but that poster's idea wouldn't lead to a better game, in my opinion. I'm the one who posted
>>52625943

>>52625886
In addition to >>52625990 I'd give them something to do. Let them explore the Primordial Dream, give them a society, something. Also, remove the crossover mechanics.

This topic about unmaking is pissing me off. Why would OP make templates that auto kill you with no way of defending yourself almost like they intentionally wanted a "nope you lose" situation.

I get that mages are supposed to be strong but when you can kill someone without repercussion it's sounds so cheesed and overpowered/ubalanaced.

>>52626134
Crossover is not assumed to be a thing by default. There are no vampires/werewolves/whatever else in mage land unless the ST says there are.

>>52625910

Yeah, maybe i'll nix animalism instead. I think it was animalism obfuscate and celerity as their clan disciplines (dont have the book handy right now)

>>52626134
Because mages aren't spending their free time bullying other splats if they're fighting they're fighting things that are scarier than unmaking magic.

To the mageposters of the thread, what are some cool paradox entities you've ever encountered before.

>>52626215
Yeah, that seems to fit nicely.

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>>52626134

>>52626194
Just as there are no Mages in any of the other games, by default.

>>52626356
Yes.
Actually wait, let me amend that. Crossover is assumed default in Beast, and its hazy in hunter.

>>52626353
DaveB loves his magelings.

>>52626394
Beast?

What is this Beast? I've no game like that on my bookshelf or in my hard drives.

Is this one of those fan games, like genius or princess? Because I don't play those.

>>52626134

>This topic about unmaking is pissing me off.

The Exceptional Success - No Withstand rule applies to more than just Unmaking,

>Why would OP make templates that auto kill you with no way of defending yourself almost like they intentionally wanted a "nope you lose" situation.

Life is not fair, "equality" is a myth, crossover is not assumed, and Mage's Hubris, cosmic power and privilege themes were not sacrificed on the altar of some unobtainable and often counterproductive game balance.

Also, not every mage is a master.

>I get that mages are supposed to be strong but when you can kill someone without repercussion it's sounds so cheesed and overpowered/ubalanaced.

Again, splat balance is not a goal of CofD 2e gamelines.

More importantly, the ability to readily kill an opponent is not the same as doing so without repercussion. Casual murder is frowned upon in the Pentacle and anyone could have friends and allies of suitable power. Further, mage setting opponents tend to be much more powerful than the standard adversaries of other gamelines. Mages are not "overpowered" relative to their own assumed challenges.

>>52626394
There is minor crossover in each and every splat. They make mention of the other supernaturals. The Stereotypes sidebars are a good outliner for this.

The common stereotype for mages is "don't get involved with them" or "stay the fuck away from them".
This was mostly 1e however.

>>52626430
1e actually attempted to balance the splats somewhat against each other so that you could play crossover games if you wanted to.

Given that 2e has completely abandoned that, with some developers outright stating that game balance is a myth and they don't give a fuck about any other games, their splat is the strongest of them all, it's killed the crossover option, more or less, with some splats especially so.

Ultimately, it all comes down to the quality of your players, your ST, and their willingness to play nicely/well with the other players, but some splats have a certain history associated with their players, or the type of people who'd want to play them in crossover games, and should be avoided at all costs.

>>52626394
>Crossover is assumed default in Beast, and its hazy in hunter.

An look how Beast turned out...

Hunter also assumes that the pc's aren't actually attacking splat-level beings, but rather using creatures made with the provided monster creation system who are generally much weaker than gameline wizards, vampires, etc. This issue has been a source of much consternation among Hunter fans for quite a while, and its unclear if, and how, it will be addressed in Hunter 2e.

>>52626430
I don't think the stereotypes are implying that those types exist. They're flavor text there to illustrate how each part of a splat feels and thinks.

>>52625743
Dude, calm your triggered ass down. I'm saying that that an no point did the text say that "and it's so easy cuz they're all retards lel", it just said that within that group SOME people follow her. Do you think that cyber-trolls grouping on the areas she mentioned is really unreasonable?

It's not a fucking attack on all gamers to make a hypothetical group of them trolls. It's a false analogy to even compare her situation to saying "All X are actually Y" because that's never even Implied.

>>52626469
>Given that 2e has completely abandoned that, with some developers outright stating that game balance is a myth and they don't give a fuck about any other games, their splat is the strongest of them all

All developers hardly believe their splat is the "strongest of them all."

However, most realized that artificially attempting to balance the splats in 1e did not work and was ultimately a fools errand, and more importantly, more often than not ran counter to the themes and priorities of the individual gameline settings.

Second edition games generally removed artificial barriers (e.g., Mage's Arcana speedbumps, Vampire's Fog of Ages, and all mechanics that tried to keep games local and street-level) and most old splats received a demonstrable power increase. There is no doubt that this improved the games overall, but to the surprise of no one, mage's and their ability to control all of reality in an open framework rules system, definitely benefited more proportionally than other splats.

>>52626025
To an extent, yeah?
Remember kids, the most versatile game you can play doesn't have rules, or splats, just you and your imagination.

If you want to do anything with people though, you better have some direction to it.

>>52626469
>it's killed the crossover option, more or less
Not really. If people can play games like DnD and put up with party imbalance there then they can sure put up with splat mixing if they want to. Thats before you take into account the fact that two people in a WoD game will typically be doing completely different things anyways.

>>52626568
>some

Where did I say all of them acted like that? Oh, right, I didn't.

>>52626575
Right, but you can have direction without "you must roleplay this one way, as a villain."

>>52626587

The only developers who believe their splats are the top tier of power are those who develop games where such power in intended by design (e.g., Mage, Mummy, Demon).

>>52626600
He didn't say that though. Just that the text should treat Beasts as villains. You know, like Vampires.

>>52626673
Then you got the Archmages.

But nobody is going to dispute how powerful they are.

>>52626600
I don't think that's what the dude that wrote that meant. Beast suffers from an issue that it paints the critters as almost default "guiltless" and that's a problem. You don't need to roleplay as a villain, but if you're a playing n inherently inhuman monster, you should feel monstrous.

When playing the other splats in Cofd you're rarely pulled towards playing a "good person" because in most cases it's very hard to do so. The tone of the series tends to be that you're not capable of being like that in the first place. It's weird for beast to be one of the exceptions.

>>52626714
Vampfags do it all the time

>>52626703
Vampires are shady and certainly have a lot of evil members of the race, but you can still be a hero.

>>52626715
Personally, I think that "inherently inhuman monster" is a dead end for most human roleplayers. There are some who'll take to it, but honestly, you can do that with pretty much any splat if you go villainous. I'd also strongly disagree that being a good person is hard (it's actually very easy in most, and only Vampire, Werewolf and possibly Mummy add anything resembling difficulty).

>>52626194
>>52626356
Yes, exactly

>>52626766
The text doesn't see it that way.

>>52626782
In some parts, the text is just plain idiotic and I wouldn't want to model a different game after it anyway. Either way, being a heroic vampire is far from impossible.

>>52626568
Aww man I liked the fog of ages.

>>52626766
It's not that tricky to play. Mages and Changelings have their own traits that make them hard to relate to mankind.

No one's saying you need to have evil in your alignment, but that WoD isn't really a setting meant for people to play knights in shining armor. Playing a heroic vampire is usually seen as just "playing pretend" since empathy isn't something vampires have plenty.

>>52626993
>since empathy isn't something vampires have plenty.
Not since "vampires don't have real emotions" was axed; in fact, empathy is a major component of Touchstones. And one doesn't have to be a KISA to be heroic.

>>52627046

Vampires are plagued by an unquenchable beast and drink blood to survive. It's not a matter of if, but when things will go horrible wrong.

In the CofD, vampires are not human by design and intent and are not supposed to be superheroes who happen like blood.

The CofD is a horror setting, and this is enforced by the default setting assumptions and rules mechanics.

You are free to play your vampion, but you must disregard and houserule a great deal of material in order to do so.

>>52627046
Touchstones even being a thing is because it's not easy to relate to your food and what you were before. Dude, it's a game that differentiated itself by letting you play the monster.

If you're playing it heroically you're an outlier for sure, which you can do and can be fun, but it's still weird as fuck. Whenever i see vampires that roleplay nothing of the fact humans became cow to them, i think they're missing the effect that would have.

Anyone willing to share Cursed Necropolis: Rio?

>>52627313

Killing the kine is murder... tasty, tasty murder.

If those stupid mortals didn't want to die, they shouldn't taste so damn delicious.

>>52627367
>Killing the kine is murder... tasty, tasty murder.

Is it really any wonder why mages sometimes feel the need to turn vampires into lawn furniture?

>>52627293
Setting assumptions to some extent, rules... not so much anymore. As long as you don't spend blood like water and spread your feeding habits out, no one will get seriously hurt by your mere existence.

>>52627313
I don't find it that difficult to synthesize the two concepts. I stand apart from mortals, and in some ways above them, but that doesn't mean I have to be devoid of ethical considerations regarding them. It's a sort of semi-feudal social contract: they give me blood, I give them protection and possibly advancement.

>>52627403
They work much better as attack dogs.
Turn them into bullets, then end the spell when they're where you need them.

All of a sudden a furious, probably starving Vampire driven half-mad by sensory deprivation is bursting out of some poor asshole's chest.

>>52627452
I'm reminded of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lJftAeL2zA

Just replace the cow with a werewolf.

>>52627499
New novelty artifact for the Adamantine Arrow a blowgun that transforms seeds into steers.

>>52627430
Lets face it. Why would you want to play a game where everything is horrible and everyone is asshole? For me drama comes from trying to act against the odds and failing. But for fail to matter you need to succed from time to time. You need to contrast those things.

>>52627600
>Why would you want to play a game where everything is horrible and everyone is asshole

For the same reason why people enjoy horror movies and books. You might not like settings where the world is horrible and most everyone is an asshole, but decades of WOD and CofD games demonstrate that many others feel very differently

In Requiem, "success" might mean prevailing in political machinations with other undead or even managing not to kill mortal who get in or way (or are just delicious). You don't need to be a saint.

However, there are games designed for people who like heroics in an rpg, it's just that the CofD lines aren't such games by design. Of course, you can play any game any way you want, but it's mistakenly clear that the CofD is based on horror.

Building a Legacy which basically borrows elements from Ascension's technological Paradigms.

Legacy Attainments are about building/enhancing technology, and its yantras are all about incorporating technology into spellcasting.

e.g. Build a "device" especially for the spell (it does nothing on its own) for a +2, incorporate a related device that has perhaps already been constructed for a +1, explain what you're doing to a friend for a +1.

This is separate from sympathy and sacrament yantras.
So for example, construct what you conceptualize a "matter rearranger" would be/look like, incorporating a piece of the subject of the spell, and which destroys itself as a part its function, and that's 3 +2 yantras.

Or just carry around what are essentially Legacy "tools".

>>52627752
What I mean to ask, is are there any Legacies which relate to this already?
I'd imagined it as an Obrimos Matter Legacy.
Basically you're constructing additional levels in the universal machine.

The cog that forces turns.
It by itself has no power, but you seeing it as a physical representation of what you want it to do imbues it with symbolic weight and makes it work as a Yantra.

>>52627752
Sounds like a mix of the "transhuman engineers" and "Imagineers" legacies.

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So, how 'bout them swole Jawa mages?

>>52627895
Kill the Batman?

>>52627898
>Kill the Batman?

The Batman must die!


So, what's it's like for a mage to have Shadow Name 3, with the shadow name of "Batman?"

Are his parents destined to die horribly in an alley?

Will he be accosted by cosplayers all the time?

>>52627968
You inexplicably get your ass kicked by female clowns all the time.

>>52627968
>So, what's it's like for a mage to have Shadow Name 3, with the shadow name of "Batman?"

People will probably raise eyebrows when they find out what his shadow name is.

>Are his parents destined to die horribly in an alley?

More likely than the average person, he'll also have an influx of violent mentally ill people in his life.

>Will he be accosted by cosplayers all the time?

They'll say the mage isn't a real nerd and is doing it for the attention.

In all seriousness batman has as much weight in the fallen world as a historic story like hercules at this point. It's a valid choice for a shadow name but it's a double edged sword like other famous names.

>>52627985
>You inexplicably get your ass kicked by female clowns all the time.

Clowns serve the Lie and should all perish horribly by fire and blade!

>>52627895
>So, how 'bout them swole Jawa mages?

I didn't realize that King Tut joined the Adamantine Arrow? Who knew?

That is one screwed-up cabal.

I assume they all invested a lot of XP into Shadow Name and Cabal Theme (Hollywood rejects).

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>>52628084
Do you have coulrophobia?

>>52628119

>Exarch

>>52628156
Pennywise reminds me more of an Abyssal being.

Could also be a True Fae.

>>52628499

>>52627600
>Lets face it. Why would you want to play a game where everything is horrible and everyone is asshole? For me drama comes from trying to act against the odds and failing. But for fail to matter you need to succed from time to time. You need to contrast those things.

i agree.