>tfw avacyn died for a plot convenience >the eldrazi got

The plot of EM was fucking retarded and extremely half-assed. It's like they started with the Emrakul idea and worked backwards, only giving one sentence pitches for everything else. A second Innistrad block could have been soooooo much better.

>>52583331
>when he comes back he'll probably be a villain and nahiri will join the gatewatch to kill him
...Is that when Obby teams up with Sorin and starts making the Legion of Doom?

>>52583331
It's a shame after the rather decent story Shadows Over Innistrad had. Regardless, if you do decide to catch up, enjoy fucking Kaladesh, possibly the worst plane we've gotten from Wizards yet, and the blandest story we've had since... fuck I don't even know.

>>52583566
MtG hasn't been all that great in the story department for quite a long time. Some flare ups here and there of decency, but pretty much since they tuned the stories to following the same few characters it's gotten bland.

I remember when they started doing tie-in novels for each part of a block. Shit got me hard as a kid.

>>52583331
> I haven't read a single mtg story update since EMN's fuckin plot disaster.
You didn't miss anything, Kaladesh was trash. AKH story is looking pretty tight though, Amonkhet seems interesting so far.

>>52583585
Oh trust me man, I know. SOI just seemed like things MIGHT get better, but fuck that. I thought Mirrodin was the blandest shit but those novels seem like fantasy odysseys now. Invasion block is Shakespearean compared to the crap their SanFran hipster circle serves us now.

>>52583590
you know I am somewhat hopeful for amonkhet, but part of me feels like its just going to end up with the gatewatch stopping the god worship/sacrifice/trials thing, for no other reason than it conflicts with their own morals. Then bolas shows up, maybe they fight and he is winning, but it turns out he underestimated the power of friendship and the gatewatch pull another flawless victory out of their ass where the writers ignore any consequence their actions might have had. Only sunshine and rainbows when the gatewatch shows up! Bolas runs away to be the villain of another block.

>>52583558
I dont reckon he will come back as villain imo. He is pretty close to being true neutral and he is old enough and wise enough to not let nahiri's actions change his outlook and character to such a degree. Although he will probably want some retribution but he will do it solo or maybe with ugins help

>>52583923
Pretty much 100% this. Although im holding out hope for some gatewatch perma deaths honestly. Would be a nice change instead of the gate watch steam rolling every villain and evil plot for the next 10 years

>>52583566
I thought Kaladesh was a pretty great plane... nice aesthetic, the Aetherborn are a cool B race, it's just that the story is shit as usual.

He was already a villain.

>>52583970
My problem with Kaladesh as a plane is that it's this retardedly optimistic place where no one seems to want for anything in spite of supposedly being under some iron-fisted government's bootheel. It's not even like it's some sort of North Korea-esque cover. The place is just that great, and that's why everyone wants to topple the government? Other issues I have are that there's this whole world but we only really get to see much of Ghirapur, making the place feel really small, and it doesn't really seem all that alive to me. Things just exist to relate to the plot, as far as I can tell, aside from maybe that Lord of Luxury guy and the other Consuls. Even in Ravnica there are these weird minor factions outside of the guilds, but it seems like all these little machine shops in Kaladesh are there just to be footnotes on the long list of "People that joined the rebellion." Aetherborn are pretty cool, though.

>>52583566
Kaladesh was THE SHIT. The story was just shit, though.

>>52584009
Not this shit again

>>52584594
But we literally saw only one city
Thats it
Literally one part of the plane
Its not even a fucking city plane

>>52584028
I would guess the artificers are at the top of the food chain while the poor workers/plebs are treated like shit.

Phyrexia will fix everything, take over everything, make everything one and compleat then Jace will abandon reality, fleeing to a fresh realm and collapsing the tunnel behind him.

>>52583923
They aren't going to win you mong.

Jesus this is hack story telling 101, they lose and retreat from Amonkhet so they can have a training and teambuilding arc. Then we get return to Amonkhet: Rebellion Boogaloo where they inspire the populace to turn against Bolas and his evil ways, THEN they beat him with friendship.

>>52588620
Might be giving them too much credit. I fully expect these morons to beat Bolas in one block, no buildup and an awful climax.

I'm sick of seeing these the same characters invade every new plane. There is no tension because they will never kill off a Gatewatch unless they absolutely have to and it will just be some kind of pseudo death and they'll come back in a year or two.

>>52583331
Just pretend that Sorin went to the butterfly farm to play with Garruk. At this point, I don't even want them to come back so they can keep playing forever.

>>52583585
They've had pretty generally good stories over the years. Theros was fantastic story wise. It got dragged down in a disappointing block, but that's besides the point. Khans was good for the first half, like SOI. Zendikar, Scars, and Innistrad were all good.

>>52588620
The storytelling has been hack for the last three and a half blocks. How will this be different?

>>52589106
I want Garruk to hunt them all down.
Go full slasher movie with it.

>>52583331
>>when he comes back he'll probably be a villain and nahiri will join the gatewatch to kill him
Now you're just pushing your view of Wizards onto them. Nahiri vs Sorin was always meant to be two ancient powers who think themselves beyond good and evil duking it out, with both doing some pretty shitty things. Say what you want about the storytelling quality, they're not going to let someone who attempted genocide onto the Good Guy team.

>>52589054

I don't see that happening.

The demographic the Gatewatch is aimed at thinks of Bolas as the main bad guy of the series.

And given that the Gatewatch just got their shit pushed in by Amonkhet's sand wurms, I really don't see them beating the guy constantly hyped up as the reigning king asshole of all planeswalkers power-wise.

>>52583331
Given Nahiri is the reason emrakul went to innistrad, I sincerely doubt the gatewatch would accept her

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>>52589068
This is probably the reason that so many of the native characters of Innistrad died, they can't kill the Gatewatch so the only way to raise the stakes and create tension is to murder swathes of the planes actually interesting characters without regard for how it will affect the plane moving forward.

>>52593456
I feel like innistrad is still going to be interesting.

We still have large swathes of humans, werewolves, and vampires. Sigarad's flock of angels are still alive, Olivia is alive an given how little angels are looks like she can indulge a bit more freely.

>>52593852

I'd have hope except the guidebook went out of its way to mention ONLY Sigarda survived Emrakul's manifestation.

Realistically, with only one angel and no afterlife anymore, humans on Innistrad are fucked nine ways from sunday, but they're not going to let one of the most popular planes descend into monsters killing each other because there's no humans left.

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>>52593894
Guidebook?

The only thing i remember reading was from the dnd innistrad stuff that says the host was okay

>>52583928
>maybe with ugins help
Ugin getting involved would do the opposite of that. Probably the only thing which could get Nahiri and Sorin "on speaking terms again would be learning that Ugin knew the Eldrazi could be killed and deliberately chose not to, thus putting Zedikar and (indirectly) Innistrad at risk.

>>52583585

I enjoyed Khans a lot. Maybe it's some rosy goggles, being that I got back into the game since Invasion, but it was fun. Time travel is always a crapshoot, but I liked the characters mostly. Then we've had this gatewatch bullshit, which is heroic and great and all, but I miss Planes being Planes, and that's that.

>>52593960

The Artbook, I mean. From what I recall, their "expanding" on what the fuck happened in EM went on to say the Host of Herons is dead but STILL didn't say a goddamn word about what happened after Emrakul was sealed.

That storyline annoyed me so much, and the worst part was that it didn't end, it just...stopped. What the fuck happened after the big fight?

>>52594390

To be fair, Ugin's exact words were "I don't know if it's possible, and it certainly isn't WISE." But yeah, he probably did have his own agenda regarding them, one Bolas was very keen to disrupt.

There's another thing; the wards didn't fail despite the centuries Nahiri was AWOL and Sorin just peeked in occasionally. They were deliberately broken by Nicol Bolas, and it's dollars to donuts if Nahiri HAD been there all that would have happened was Bolas slaughtered her centuries ago so she wouldn't interfere.

LATE NINETEENTH, EARLY TWENTIETH CENTURY THEMED PLANE WHEN

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>>52583609
I 'member, anon. Ravnica/Mirrodin/Kamigawa books weren't perfect but they kept you engaged for longer than five minutes at a time. Interesting characters and genres mixed in at every turn. The planeswalker novels were even decent, and I definitely wanted more after the weirdness of Test of Metal.
It's a shame. Wizards' target demographics and focus groups care more about lesbians, chad and deus ex machina than storytelling

>>52589242
At this point I'm optimistic enough that it just can't happen. We've had the Eldrazi being (mostly) molested by friendship and Ajani beating Bolas initially with his stupid ult.
The Jactice League have to lose, and badly. I can't get anymore apathetic with this fucking story after the last few blocks, I'm a sure a lot of people agree

>>52583585
Eh, BFZ was pretty good apart from the ending, but with antagonists like the Eldrazi you can't really write anything amazing as a climax without either stabbing it with plot hooks or just blowing everything up.

The real problem is that we have EVERY one of them every time, instead of 2-3, which is where a lot of the writers are most comfortable.

>>52592969
Nahiri in "Campaign of Vengeance" : "I'm done being a warden, and Zendikar will never again be a prison. Emrakul had to go somewhere. You just made the decision a simple one."

The attempt to hurt Sorin was of course the point, but she knew that people were going to die in troves nevertheless. And it's not like she knew anything about the post-mending world, so she's probably more stuck up in her views than most. She had quite the hard landing.

Would be interested in seeing what she's up to, honestly. She would make for an interesting villain, being a god dethroned who took a pretty hard fall.

Certainly something more interesting going on in there rather than the regular manateers stuff.

I feel like a lot of the animosity people have about post-Origins storytelling is misdirected at the concept of the Gatewatch, rather than implementation. Every time we now see some super-doomsday scenario that they just HAVE to become completely immersed in rather than simply being supporting cast to an independent story, a way to keep consistency and pacing in the overall story while still experimenting. I think this is mostly because they've pushed the idea that the Gatewatch has to have all of its members at any one place, instead of splitting up the crew so the writers have design space to flesh out the planes while 2-3 of the Gatewatch play observer and occasionally make a wave.

>>52594886
What era was that again?

>>52583566
Kaladesh was generic but it wasn't BAD.

BFZ block was comically bad.

Origins was bad mostly because of all of the retcons, BFZ was just comical because of Nissa's autism, KOZILEK FROM SIX POINTS OF view, and the entire ending

SOI block was actually pretty decent, and had great ending stories

Kaladesh was again, generic, but much better than BFZ, plus Gatsby was an ok character

Amonkhet seems not total garbage so far

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>>52593456
>>52589068
There's hope that they'll finally kill off members of the Gatewatch when Nicol Bolas slaps their shit in Hours of Devastation.

>>52584028
>>52584028
The consulate is not meant to be antagonistic. There are bad people as in any form of gubmint, but Wizards went out of their way to make it clear that the aether revolt only went down because of Tezzeret's infiltration and manipulation, and that otherwise the Consuls are mostly genuinely well meaning and benevolent. There've always been renegades who disagree that aether should be government regulated but its just differing political views and isnt to my knowledge intended to be interpreted as hard right or wrong.

Im sure a lot of the world is well expounded upon in the artbook. It just so happened the story this time was a rebellion in Ghirapur so thats what showed up on cards.

>>52595373
I actually kind of want "Gatewatch" planeswalkers to appear, I just want them to not be the origins 5 all the fucking time.

Have Narset and Ral be the ones trudging along a plane trying to fix shit instead of Jace and Gideon for the 12th time.

>>52594886
Kaladesh is the max limit of technology we are going to see.

>>52595373
Some people have already said it, but Gideon is probably the one getting the axe (because Bolas doesn't give a shit about immortality), or at least be mortally wounded.

Bolas has no sympathy for furries

>>52595412
psst no one who complains about that aspect of the kaladesh story actually read any of it, because if they did you wouldn't have to explain that to them

>>52595439
I don't mind recurring characters, but the Gatewatch fuckers have overstayed their welcome, not to mention the endless rehashes of the same shit.

How many more iterations of Gideon "turn into indestructible man with damage prevention" do we really need?

>>52595474
IIRC, Ajani slapped Bolas shit.

The story and gameplay of mtg has been slightly off since the original innistrad block. The return to ravnica and theros blocks were decent and everything after imo was a huge step back for the game as a whole.

>>52595494
>How many more iterations of Gideon "turn into indestructible man with damage prevention" do we really need?
I was browsing a spoiler thread yesterday during a lecture and had to stifle myself from laughing after seeing someone bring up "Gideon tribal"

>>52595470
I imagine they'll kill Gideon
>The DM of the Gatewatch has told Gideon that Okhetra is infallably Lawful Good.
>There will inevitably be betrayal and they'll kill off Gideon.
>Everyone calls the Paladin (Gideon) lawful stupid for believing the DM even though detection of allignment is not a roll but just a factual check.
>Gatewatch tips their collextive Fedora's at the concept of religeon.
>Move on to next plane.

>>52595526
There are 6 variants of Gideon now. You could run up to 24 Gideons in a single deck, even if it doesn't make much sense due to the Planeswalker rule.

>>52595580
I think one of would be good enough, mono white super gideon friends.

Put Trials down and then just put another down whenever he dies.

>>52595470
>because Bolas doesn't give a shit about immortality
This. His touch alone destroys any mind. Don't even care if you can't die if your brain empty.

>>52595439
T H I S
H
I
S

As someone who got back into Magic around Origins, I was excited by the concept of being able to consistently have recurring characters I can relate to or am at least familiar with, but having to shove 5 foreign characters into each setting leaves no good room for the plane itself! Why do we need 5 bloody Gatewatch reps at once when at least 2 of them do jack shit each block (Gideon and Chandra in SOI, Nissa and Jace in KAL)? Making a rotating cast and cutting it down to 3-2 people lets the story breathe instead of cramming in crap like Jace's stupid one-off in AER or Liliana just chasing off Tezzeret by herself.

>>52595647
So far it looks like Gideon (and Jace?) are going to be carrying the story this time around.

Gideon's got his god waifu and at least in the stories so far Jace has done the most stuff.

>>52584028
>mfw they will make Ravnica the new center of the multiverse amd shit on dominaria.

>>52595373
I doubt Jace is going to die.

I mean it would be great but I don't think it's gonna happen.

>>52595691
>>52595373
You don't know how much I was rooting for Nixilis during that BFZ story.

>>52595674
>>52595691
Can you imagine the amount of paperwork he has waiting for him back in his office?

>>52595711
I wonder how poor Lavinia must feel.

>>52595580
Mono-W tokens feat. Oath of Gideon and Trials for shutting down blockers?

This is the closest thing to MTG lore thread, I just want to know why someone would write stuff like this.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/impact-2017-03-29

>HOLY FIERY RIVERS OF REGATHA WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THAT THING AND DID IT JUST EAT LILIANA NO WAY WHAT THE HELL DIE IN A PILLAR OF FLAME YOU BIG FAT STUPID WAIT DID NISSA JUST SAY THERE WERE MORE COMING OH GEEZ YUP THERE THEY ARE GET OUT OF THE WAY I'LL ROAST YOU ALL GIVE BACK LILIANA YOU STUPID SONS OF INBRED BANDARS—

>>52595767
The writer for Dragon Age joined creative and since no one there cares about Chandra at all they're just following his lead.

>>52583928
Dunno man

I kind of want to see Sorin escalate.

I liked the Sorin vs Nahiri plotline. It paints both characters as being essentially sanctimonious pricks with varying levels of fucking lunacy and a near complete disconnect or seeming lack of awareness, or perhaps a lack of care, regarding the long-term consequences of their actions.

>>52595800
>fucking lunacy

Carlos I'm going to banish your beaner ass to the Shadow Realm for that

>>52595767
The Gatewatch is so overcrowded that they have to remind the readers that certain characters are there

>>52595800
I would love to see multiple blocks, probably spaced out, about those two trying to fuck over each other and causing planar catastrophes in the process.

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>>52595811
You can try

>>52595873
>>52595800
>Two petty and angry planeswalkers shitting up multiple universes over their grudges
just like the good old days

>>52595826
>>52595889
That would be a fucking riot.

Talking about that, what's your speculations on how Nahiri will probably try to attain a longer lifespan?

Stone-cyborg Nahiri would probably be a personal favorite. Think about it, she could use her own body as a weapon and a source of magic.

>>52595901
>Talking about that, what's your speculations on how Nahiri will probably try to attain a longer lifespan?
I dunno if she's into the "continue to be immortal" thing. We already have Lili and Bolas for that.

>>52595915
I dunno, fucking up the life of an immortal vampire would probably be easier if one was immortal themselves, no?

And she is probably still quite adamant in her ideas of being an oldwalker, she has been a newwalker for what, a year? That's not a long time to erase ideas woven in 6000 years.

>>52595292
I actually think that even in theory a Planeswalker team is a really bad idea.

Up till now, the story of Magic has been about the struggles of Planeswalkers against each other. The fact that they're all different colors is what makes this interesting. The last time we had a Planeswalker superteam was Scars, and that was only because Venser and Elspeth was forced into it. Turns out that when you get people who have completely different philosophies into one team, it doesn't turn out well. Who would have guessed?

>>52596004
Outside of her getting FUCKING PISSED at Sorin, she seemed rather level headed.

>>52595901
What if she discovers New Phyrexia? Think about the possibilities.

>>52595319
Gilded Age if you're a burger

>>52595454
Yeah, and it makes me sad :(
> everyone's favorite historical period except for mine has been/will be represented

>>52595319
Industrial age?

>>52596056
>Getting pissed enough to ruin a fucking plane just because you really dislike a dude who likes that plane
>Level headed

>>52596210
For an old walker.

>>52596056
Yeah, she is pretty level headed, and after she dealt with Sorin (or so she thinks at least), she's probably content until she sees his ugly mug again.

>>52596210
Again:
>"I'm done being a warden, and Zendikar will never again be a prison. Emrakul had to go somewhere. You just made the decision a simple one."

She knew that loads of people were going to die anyway, so why not guide that monstrosity to a place that would hurt this asshole. It's still bad, but it's not willing genocide -bad. It's redirecting a flood that would destroy a village to another village of your enemy's. The end result is still the same, a lot of people dying, but your enemy suffers from it.

What are the odds that Garruk exists again?

What are the odds that they don't write him shittily?

>>52596668
100%

0%

>>52596706
As long as they don't take a 180 on his character like they did with Nissa I think I could handle it.

>>52596731
This is why I don't really want to see the old favorites come back. I'm scared of what the writers are going to do to them.

>>52596780
I was never really into Katmandu, but he seems about what you'd expect out of a relatively chivalrous mono white walker.

Outside of dead people, who else would they bring back? Karn? Koth?

>>52596809
Yeah. You're pretty right though. They already fucked with all of the fan favorites.

>>52583923
If the gatewatch shits on Bolas I swear to you I will never read the plot again. They can't fucking do that.

>>52596910
I'm still pissed they had them "kill" ulamog and kozilek with normal fucking fire magic, no matter how much "special mana" is on zendikar.

Though at least they more or less said they weren't actually dead.

>>52597027
Let's be honest, the Eldrazi were terrible antagonists in the first place. It's never a good idea to write a villain that can't lose lest everything be destroyed that isn't the only villain in the series.

>>52597027
They will probably manifest again in some other form, to be honest. The versions on Zendikar were just basically fragments of the original titan. It's like trapping an octopus to glue versus chopping off a limb. That's why the original trio's plan worked for so long.

Eldrazi are weird.

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>>52597237
I'm probably a bit biased because for a while my experience with magic was just playing commander and I usually got my friend's braids+eldrazi deck, but the titans were incredibly symbolic of magic to me, second to bolas, (my friend had an M13 box) and to see them treated like that really upset me. Even moreso after I had heard so much when I was starting to play about how Zendikar block was so amazing.

A lot of the original Eldrazi cards were amazing to me, a good example being It That Betrays. Meanwhile half the ones in BFZ were boring, though I suppose that's what happens when you need a set of them instead of 3-4 from each brood.

>>52596809
The only Walker option that could come back is probably Jaya Ballard, since we don't know if our universe's Jaya is dead or not.
Though, with how much they've been fucking up everything and everyone in the lore, I hope they don't remember she exists.

>>52597294
Like, the Eldrazi aesthetic is just so... Majestic.

They're powerful devourers with alien powers and aesthetics. Also they have some of the best names for cards. It That Betrays is a nice example, and one of the rare new examples is It That Rides As One.

Sad that they mostly filed off that naming convention in later sets, it really emphasized the alienness of them.

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>>52597237
Their set-up was great, the execution however... What I mean is that they could write something far more interesting instead of what they did.

What if they lure one of the titans and seal it on a barren plane? what if you trap one in a infinite loop of magic bullshit? what if they try to kill one collapsing the plane with a very dramatic sacrifice of one of the protagonist? I don't know, do something crazy. Imagine having them all of them separated in different planes, wotc could release one in 20 years, in 30 years release another one, etc. NOT FUCKING KILLING THEM.

Fuck I was mad when I was reading that ending. fuck your jacetice league maro.

>>52595800
They are like that because they were oldwalkers. It's why Liliana is a bit more unhinged than the rest of the gatewatch. It's why Bolas works as a 1 dimensional keikaku weaving super villain. The neowalkers won't live long enough or see enough fucked up shit to reach that mental state.

>>52597647
I quit after the SIXTH story that had nothing happen except seeing Kozilek show up from ANOTHER perspective

>expecting an MTG story to be good

It's always been shit. Anyone who thinks it was never not shit is blinded by nostalgia.

>>52589398
jund slasher film garruk

yissssssss

>>52595800

Well, an aspect of Sorin they have mentioned but not previously had any opportunity to go into is that Sorin is apparently the most vindictive motherfucker in the universe. He's very big on revenge.

He and Nahiri have that in common, and so while both are alive I think we're going to get a very good look at the whole "revenge is cyclical" thing.

>>52597415

To be fair, there's only so much you can do with incomprehensible cthulu-knockoffs that want to devour everything but can't explain why because your simple mind can't comprehend it. Honestly I kinda found them to be a knockoff of Slivers and Phyrexia as it was.

Bolas, you can have moves and countermoves where an insanely clever and powerful dragon weaves schemes and exerts powerful magics and the heroes have to struggle and get smart if they want to live. There can be wins and losses that make sense; the heroes getting lucky, an unexpected flaw in the villain's plan, it doesn't need to be something too dramatic and it can go either way.

Phyrexia has the whole terrifying inexorable alien force thing going on but they're also characterized and divided in ways that give them more personality and variation in their clashes with the protagonists.

The Eldrazi are...a little TOO big, I guess is the thing? Either they annihilate everything or they don't, and they don't requires plot bullshit because you established nothing is supposed to work on them normally so you need cheating like the entire plane wanting you to win for them not to be a "rocks fall everyone dies" monster. And not even one that has a personality.

I didn't like how the titans were taken out but I do have to admit if we needed a villain to go from the three that were active to show the Gatewatch CAN get some stuff done, binning the Eldrazi was the right choice. Among other things, they don't have nearly as much legacy or as many fans as the other two.

>>52597693
>What is Weatherlight?

>What is Ravnica?

>What is Innistrad?

>What is New Phyrexia?

>What is Theros?

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>>52583331
The plot's been shit for over 10 years, anon. You'll never get a good story until the nuwalkers are benched.

>>52595698
me too. three inches of dirty water was the best thing I've read in mtg lore in years.

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>>52597786
>What is Weatherlight

>>52597693
t. has not read Lorwyn or earlier

>>52597786
>>What is Innistrad?
Bland.
>>What is New Phyrexia?
The actual worst story ever to grace MTG, and a slap in the face to one of their much better writers who they treated like shit for trying to set the same thing up years ago.
>>What is Theros?
Ultra bland.

>>52597866

A number of people thought Weatherlight's plot was hot garbage, too. Nostalgia's a hell of a drug.

>>52597780
I hated the Eldrazi the moment they were introduced, but I do think they were disposed of rather hastily. It's a shame too because I like Ulamog and Kozilek's broods far more than Emrakul's visually.

>>52597786
All this low-hanging fruit next to Ravnica. Come on, anon. Admittedly I like Innistrad too, but I'm a slut for horror.

>>52597844
He may be the villain, but Nixilis was my hero.

>>52597884
Yeah, and then we got the last 10 years and Wizards taught me that maybe my standards were too draconian.

>>52597866
If you think that Theros and Innistrad are bland, then I can't really argue with your opinion. Since it's your opinion. But why do you think that New Phyrexia is the worst?

>>52597884
It was bad at times, but overall, I think it was pretty great.

>>52597884
Weatherlight's a bit iffy, and if it's the only thing you'd been exposed to then I could understand why you might think pre-nuWalker MTG had shitty lore. It's still an incorrect opinion, though.

>>52597922
Have you actually read Quest for Karn? I have it here on my shelf. It's the only MTG novel I was unable to finish. It is utter dreck.

>>52597922
Not that guy, but compared to the original Phyrexia I found it rather pedestrian. The Praetors and co. didn't really feel all that Phyrexian to me, it just felt like they were the logical conclusion of what a villain in each color would look like given a nu-Phyrexian layer of paint. I liked the old aesthetic far more too, but that's a whole other issue. Also, the novel was shit. The characterization was completely inconsistent with the established lore/cards, and the Praetors didn't even show up since they had to elbow with Geth and Glissa for screentime.

>>52597957

I do have to say I kind of like New Phyrexia being primarily bant-focused, since when you get right down to it the whole thing of assimilate and perfect all life forms taps into the dark side of those three colors.

Old Phyrexia being black-focused DID make sense since they were more focused on conquest and destruction, but I think it is probably good to draw a distinction between the two versions. This isn't the old phyrexians, after all, it's a new version that arose in the minds of Mirrans infected by the oil. Other worlds infected by Karn's passage, like Elspeth's, might have their own mutations.

>>52597985
See, the thing is that once upon a time glistening oil was not phazon. Mere exposure to it didn't turn you into a dumb looking mutant. Phyrexians were cyborgs, compleation was the process of grafting metal to flesh. Now it's just OOPS ALL MUTANTS. Fuck, the only actual Phyrexian looking cards in nuPhyrexia were the artifacts, which visibly had flesh on their metal. Fucked up and ass backwards.

>>52595494
>How many more iterations of Gideon "turn into indestructible man with damage prevention" do we really need?
Maro said that as of Hours the Gatewatch aren't going to appear on as many planeswalker cards.

>>52598022

To be fair, the base state of being on mirrodin is a flesh being that has metal elements to their biology. Melira was a freak because she didn't have any metal incorporated into her biology.

>>52598031
the fact that ANYONE there thought cramming the gatewatch members into all future sets was a good idea that anyone would like, makes me question just how fucking out of touch with reality these people are

>>52598068
That should just give you more hardpoints to bolt on accessories. We could have had so many cool cyborgs. Imagine a compleated Loxodon for god's sake.

>>52598082
Well I'm sure it was a novel and exciting idea when they first came up with it and once people understood the reality of what "all future stories" meant and Wizard got feedback it just took a while before that feedback got reflected in the game because of how long development takes.

>>52598082

I suspect part of it was to try and focus the story down for a little while as opposed to having a bunch of threads they advance, very slightly, once every couple of years. Maybe they got tired of picking "which couple of planeswalkers are the observers/protagonists of this block and which of the threads does this one tie to" every block and decided "you know what, let's just focus on a handful of them for a while and have a story that continues from block to block and see how that goes."

>>52597884
It was garbage, having to deal with the crew in half the art and flavour of a set was garbage, and the end of it was a completely rushed clusterfuck. (don't even get me started on Urza's)

But despite that it was still an actual arcing plot, which is a hell of a lot more than can be said of the gatewatch.

>>52598150
Even if it was garbage, I still enjoyed the exploits of the Weatherlight plot arc.

But what was important that they switched focus from time to time, aka including Urza.

They didn't jam block after block after block of the same chucklefucks down our throat.

The best part of magic lore was how you were the planeswalker.
Every game was a story.

>>52599668
I wonder if they'd have something referencing players as planeswalkers if they did a third unset.

Is there a good place I can find a synopsis of magic lore?

>>52599725
The wiki has a lot of it, but I don't know of any perfect timeline with all the details. I'd post one to the best of my knowledge, but a lot of my knowledge of lore from Ice Age and prior is really spotty.

>>52583331
>>52593894
>>52594520
Angels aren't everything. I get that you're personally invested in angels angels angels, but you don't need to keep making threads about it all the time.

>>52595083
Nobody else wants more Test of Metal.

>>52596004
She'd probably rather just kill him than try to regain immortality herself, honestly.
Assuming she never finds out that hey, Zendikar's alright.
>>52596081
Compleation is incompatible with the Planeswalker's spark.

>>52602518
I dunno, I think Nahiri would actually want to, you know, explore the worlds now that she is free from the burden of being a watchdog. And she probably realizes that the Kor lifespan really isn't long enough to experience anything.

>>52602518
If Nahiri finds out Zendikar is perfectly fine she's going to either
1. have a breakdown over destroying Innistrad
2. freak the fuck out on Ugin next
(if she goes back and finds Innistrad is also fine, then she may even tell Sorin of Ugin's general treachery, but I doubt she'll release him)

>>52595800
>>52595873
Surely you can include Ugin in the mix and make it a three way war. Both Sorin and Nahiri would be utterly outraged to hear that he knew the Eldrazi were always mortal and that the whole hedron binding plan was due to his own caution.

>>52594520
Ugin had the specific agenda of locking them up and studying them.

Beyond that, we do not know his reasons or purpose for not wanting them dead.

>>52595373
That reply gives no indication that any gatewatch will die, just that we won't be inundated with the same losers block after block.
>problematic
Fucking hell.

>>52596036
>I actually think that even in theory a Planeswalker team is a really bad idea.
This. I want to go back to battling over manalines.
When planeswalker cards came out, I thought they were a huge mistake. I realize in retrospect that they might have been interesting, but how they're handling them is just fucking terrible. I don't need to know about Jace and Friends, I don't want a bunch of different versions of the same planeswalker, I don't need the story to focus on a "core group" of characters. Just give us new and interesting shit, for fucks sake.

>>52597647
The reason they were drawn to Zendikar is the magic, so a barren plane won't work.

Collapsing a plane won't work because they exist in the Blind Eternities, you have to pull them into the plane anyway. And no planes walker except maybe Bolas (and I doubt it) has the magical horsepower to end an entire plane right now.

Infinite loop of magic? Who except somebody like Ugin or, again, Bolas, might have that kind of knowledge? And mana isn't infinite anyway, you have to pull it from the aether. A world can have mana bonds decay into near nothing, Jace felt that in Agents of Artifice on the plane he and Tezzeret met Bolas in.

The Planes are secondary to the Gatewatch. Its a shame, they take up slots that plane-specific legendaries or creatures could have gone into. With only two sets a plane, its even worse now.

And every single plane doesnt need a plane-specific walker. Neo-walkers ''story'' is retarded enough, but having each plane have its own walker is stupid.

>>52603030
>The Planes are secondary to the Gatewatch
This, combined with "Every plane needs to have a monolithic, unchanging, one-dimensional identity" are the cancers killing Magic story. I don't give a shit about "Magic 20somethings fuck around in The Egyptian Plane or The Steampunk Plane". Give me new and weird worlds to enjoy, and stop this "Planes can and must only ever be one thing and cannot have additional dimensions" horseshit. If Wizards sold us a D&D setting that was literally "This is Ancient Greek Myth, The Setting. Everything is a straight ripoff of Ancient Greek Myth, except for the parts that are ripoffs of ripoffs. There are no real twists or shakeups, welcome to Theros, be Heroic, kill Monsters", we'd throw it into their fucking faces. And yet they think this watered down shit is good MTG story.

>>52602771
>If Nahiri finds out Zendikar is perfectly fine she's going to either
>1. have a breakdown over destroying Innistrad
I don't really think that'd happen. She'd have a "Oh, whoops, sorry I guess" moment at best.

>2. freak the fuck out on Ugin next
He had a legitimate excuse though, he was fucking dead. She was pissed at Sorin because the call was muted by some of his shit.

>>52602843
After the actual ending of BFZ block and even moreso after SOI, they probably aren't mortal, they just got rid of them off of Zendikar.

>>52603635
The 'freakout at Ugin' is a freakout not because Ugin didn't answer her call for aid when the Eldrazi made a crack in her defenses but because Ugin never disclosed that the Eldrazi could possibly be killed.

So, with evidence that the Eldrazi can in fact be killed, Nahiri has got an excuse to be a genocidal bitch at Tarkir next.

>>52602479
>Nobody else wants more Test of Metal.
Inaccurate. It's the best nuWalker content.

>>52603663
But they (at least probably) actually can't be killed.

Though if she is under the assumption of that it'd be an excuse I suppose.

Her being a genocidal bitch on Innistrad involved luring a titan to it though. If Ulamog and Kozilek really are dead, with Emmy stuck in the moon who's she going to get? The phyrexians?

She's strong but she can't exactly cause a planar apocalypse by herself.

>>52603635
>After the actual ending of BFZ block and even moreso after SOI, they probably aren't mortal, they just got rid of them off of Zendikar.
>>52603698
>But they (at least probably) actually can't be killed.
Uh, no. Ulamog and Kozilek are 100% dead. They were dragged completely into realspace and vaporized. What makes you think they left, or possibly could have left? Zendikar latched onto them and pulled as hard as a living plane can pull. They can't get away from the planar binding rune or else they wouldn't have been trapped to begin with. So the only place they could be is within Zendikar's dimensional space.

Emrakul is just much, much harder to kill. Nissa said she couldn't burn Emrakul away even if she had all of Innistrad's mana at her command the way she does for Zendikar. Either this is because Innistrad is too much weaker than Zendikar (Zendikar's mana is repeatedly stated to be far stronger than other planes) or because Emrakul is that much bigger than her brethren.

>>52603780
>Uh, no. Ulamog and Kozilek are 100% dead. They were dragged completely into realspace and vaporized. What makes you think they left, or possibly could have left?
Well in the first place it's comically shitty writing. Secondly I remember there being something at the end that gave off "but are they really dead" but I can't actually remember where that was so it's not really relevant.
There's also just, you know, the ancient elder dragon oldwalker Ugin saying "Don't kill them you shitheads".

>Emrakul is just much, much harder to kill. Nissa said she couldn't burn Emrakul away even if she had all of Innistrad's mana at her command the way she does for Zendikar.
Emrakul was always bigger stats wise and Zendikar was always "crazy magic plane" so it'd probably be somewhat both but the whole thing of "just use fire magic lol" is retarded in the first place.

>>52603698
I'm sure Bolas might be relatively displeased at learning one of his archrivals survived his delicately planned assassination in ages past.

>>52603841
Yea but Ugin's not even on Tarkir, and he didn't seem to have any huge fondness for the plane either.

Plus she lured Emrakul to Innistrad with a lot of mana and spells and whatever she was doing with the pillars. Bolas has a sapient mind, he'd have to have a reason to listen to her in the first place. I could be forgetting about Ugin saying something about the plane but I don't really remember.

>>52603840
>Well in the first place it's comically shitty writing
I feel it was adequately foreshadowed and properly justified in the end, but a little rushed.
>Secondly I remember there being something at the end that gave off "but are they really dead"
I do not recall that. Even Ugin accepted they were dead, and he's the only thing in the multiverse to having any accumulated Eldrazi lore.
>There's also just, you know, the ancient elder dragon oldwalker Ugin saying "Don't kill them you shitheads".
That is because he fears the consequences of what their death means for the multiverse at large. For better or worse, the Eldrazi are "natural" things. They exist, and they live, and their lives must have some purpose. (The current reigning fanon is that they're some sort of planar recycling system where Ulamog breaks down a plane, Kozilek reforms it anew, and Emrakul repopulates it with life. If so, then it'd at least explain why Humans, Elves, Vampires, Goblins, and Merfolk are so common across the multiverse as they have a shared origin within Emrakul.) Whatever that purpose is, Ugin only wanted to pause it, not cease it.
If anything, it was the harder task to create a planar wide binding network of lithomantic hedrons over the course of 40 years than it would've been to kill them.

>>52603698
Sorin actually says, from memory, that Nahiri with time to prep via lithomancy is a truly horrifying opponent. And that was when he was an Oldwalker, too.

>>52603893
Bolas might have accumulated Eldrazi knowledge. He certainly knew enough to get them released, and doesn't seem to have been bothered by the thought of them being loose.

>>52603897
Ferocious and creative in single combat though she may be, planeswalkers are still powered down and she can't genocide a whole plane on her own.
She couldn't even summon Emrakul without using Avacyn's mana as it returned to Innistrad, redirected by the cryptoliths.

>>52603698
>>52603840
Except they can be killed and two of them have been killed.

There were several years where all knew was that the Eldrazi titans were metaphorically the hands of much larger beings, reaching into the pools of water that represent reality. Killing a titan would just be biting the hand and causing it to withdraw. There was no way of killing the much larger beings without fighting them in their true forms in the Blind Eternities.

Then this got brushed off by the Jacetice League improvising and finding a way to grab that metaphorical hand and drag the entire body into the pool of water that is the metaphor for reality. Nissa and Chandra used their Channel-Fireball combo and Ulamog and Kozilek were slain. Not just defeated but outright and unambiguously killed, to the point where Ugin lambasts them for doing so. In fact, I'll post the direct quotation in the next post.

>>52603675
lol you're the most deluded person i've ever had the displeasure of interacting with

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-story/zendikar-resurgent-2016-02-24

>"Yes, yes," said Ugin. "It all follows. You could hold them using the glyph, but without the hedrons to bleed off energy and hold the leylines in place, your only options were to let the titans go or pull them fully into physical space and destroy them."

>Jace blinked.

>"You said that wasn't possible."

>"I said it wasn't possible for you," said Ugin. "And you led me to believe you weren't going to try, so spare me your sanctimony."

>"Wait," said Nissa. "You knew the titans could be killed? Did you know that when you trapped them here?"

>Ugin rose up on two legs, towering above them like a schoolmaster.

>"You've killed two living creatures that were older than worlds," said Ugin. "Without knowing their purpose, their role, the impact of their lives or their deaths—you risked this entire plane and unknown consequences beyond it to kill them. Because you could."

>In the silence that followed, only Chandra spoke: "You're damned right we did."

>Ugin dropped back to all fours with what sounded like a sigh.

>"There is no force in all the Multiverse more dangerous or capricious than Planeswalkers," he said, shaking his horned head.

>"What will happen now?" said Jace.

>"Unknown," said Ugin. "As far as I'm aware, no one has ever killed an Eldrazi titan before. I have theories about what the Eldrazi are, and what might happen now that two of them are dead. The consequences may not accrue until long after all of you are dead, so you may count this as a victory if you wish. I, for my part, will study their remains, and prepare for the future."

>>52603982
I'm aware, I read the material.

>>52603698
Ulamog and Kozilek are dead dead. They explicitly stated this when people started speculating because WotC employs complete retards who are less competent than your average 3rd grader at storytelling, marketing, and oftentimes gameplay.

>>52603982
>Then this got brushed off by the Jacetice League improvising
To be fair, it was a hail-mary attempt born of desperation that very well could have destroyed Zendikar in one fell swoop.

>>52603999
>>"Wait," said Nissa. "You knew the titans could be killed? Did you know that when you trapped them here?"
Nissa you should've been way more upset by that.
But then he is a massive ancient dragon of incredible power so I guess she was just shy.

>>52604002
Then you know that the Eldrazi are fully dead with nothing in the source material indicating that they are likely to return. There are no hints, no indicators. All we know is that Ugin believes that there will be consequences and we have not been told what these consequences are.

The word 'killed' is used several times, which directly refutes the statement of >>52603698:
>But they (at least probably) actually can't be killed.
And there is nothing to suggest that they can come back this sort of death, other than speculating based on Ugin's comment of 'consequences,' which could mean literally anything at this point.

Do eldrazi die when they are killed?

>>52604010
It was something they only could do because Ugin was a bit loose, free and careless with his explanations.

>>52604157
Yes. Eldrazi die when they are killed.

>>52604174

Not to mention it was something that would only work on Zendikar, with Nissa as a member of the party coordinating with Jace and Chandra. As they found out on Innistrad that trick will never work again, much like how Ajani managing to fight Bolas to a draw by boosting his soul magic with the Maelstrom was a one-time thing he can't ever do again.

From what I've heard, although I can't find the source now, MaRo did comment if they could do BFZ over again they'd have done it differently by making it an adventure for the Zendikari and the newly-forming Gatewatch to find a way to seal Ulamog again, which would have left the plane with a weakened roil but able to recover while the other two titans prowl the Blind Eternities and the Gatewatch goes out to try and find and stop them.

I think that would have been a better approach. Certainly I don't think anyone would have had much room to complain if the climax of OGW had been the Gatewatch and the Allies beating Ob Nixilis and sealing Ulamog away again.

Although that probably also sets up for future conflict with Nahiri since she wants ALL the Eldrazi off her property and the Gatewatch put a lot of effort into putting one of them back in the bottle.

>>52595373
Maybe they'll drive Bolas off and Gideon will use his magic to take up the mantle of God of the underworld and restore balance to Amonkhet while banging his cat goddess waifu on the reg.
He can't just leave all the time, Jace gets back to Ravnica and has to stay to prevent a civil war.
Lili eventually fucks off after they off her other two demons
Then it's just lesbian adventures.

>>52604309
They're killing the 3rd of 4 in Amonkhet right?

Then we have the last one and whatever they're gonna do with the chain veil GARRUK WHEN

>>52604331
They will never fully resolve Liliana's conflict.

If they do, she ceases to function as a 'good' black character.

>>52595647
Hey!
Hey
hey hey
Dramatic Reversal enables infinite combos in my Breya deck.

>>52603698
She'll tell the Gatewatch where Tarkir is
Gideon will beat the shit out of the Kolaghan until they accept honor back in their lives
Chandra will catch Ojutai on fire and then teach the monks about just relaxing a little and being themselves
Nissa will get in touch with the mana in the Silumgar territory, cause an elemental to spring up go "REEEEEEEEEEEEE" and run off. Sidisi uses the distraction to poison slumgar
Jace is just having a bad time in Atarka territory trying to stay alive with illusions.
Liliana is necromancing it up in Dromoka territory and overthrows the dragonlord with Ghostafenza's help so she can get some consistent zombies.

>>52604419
Unless of course her black moves to "I like these people, they are MY people, and you can't hurt them."
Drana from the bfz storyline had a very good outlook for a mono black protagonist.

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>>52604596
>Jace in Atarka land
How does he help Surrak eat Atarka?

>>52604648
Drana was the least awful part of that story. Jace's early stuff too. I'm still baffled that post-origins Jace of all people has one of the better characters.

>>52604648
She doesn't really have any sort of power over the Gatewatch, so she's not really in a position to view them as possessions.

>>52604690
>She doesn't really have any sort of power over the Gatewatch, so she's not really in a position to view them as possessions.
Well she has the chain veil and she's black. She doesn't really particularly need a legitimate position to view them as her possessions.

>>52604680

I thought Tazri's story was pretty good, too.

It was kinda nice that ultimately the reason Zendikar wasn't consumed while Ob killed the Gatewatch was because of a random act of mercy a minor character committed years before the plot being repaid at the right time.

And the Kozilek mindfuck that came before that was pretty heavy.

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>all these niggers defending the killing of the eldrazi

Go away, Maro.

>>52604742
They were prevalent when the story first came out but I thought they had left by now.

>>52604710
Reminder that both Drana's story and Tazri's story were written by Ken Troop, who has previously been acknowledged as the only good writer on MtG's creative team. Oddly enough, almost all of the stories he was involved in featured female characters having their minds twisted and altered in some fashion.

He's probably been laid off since then, because he stopped writing pieces around the same time that Chris L'Etoile joined.

>>52604859
His linkdin still lists him as a director of R&D design operations. I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped getting him to write because he did pull the audience into his uncharted realms.

>>52604859
>because he stopped writing pieces around the same time that Chris L'Etoile joined.
god is this guy the cause of everything bad in magic's story recently?

>>52604742
We're not defending their killing. We're stating that they were killed.

>>52604742
It was consistent and written well. The only issue I have is that it was wasteful, and at first revelation it was definitely an anticlimax.
It became a proper climax after the writing. But not in the cards.
Believe me, I was a livid puddle of molten salt when Fall of the Titans was spoiled. But by the time Zendikar's Last Stand was actually written I had cooled off.

>>52604926
"I feel it was adequately foreshadowed and properly justified in the end" really seems like defending it.

>>52604926
and >>52604939 is definitely defending it
>written well
It was the worst magic story in years.

>>52604948
It really wasn't that bad. Kaladesh was much, much harder to read. Perhaps you're taking issue with the direction more than the writing?

>>52604948
>>52604944
Oh, in that case that's one moron defending it, that isn't representative of a whole bunch of people. Sorry.

>>52604987
The only bad parts about Kaladesh were L'etoile's writing. Outside of that it was just generically ok, barring on mediocre.

Yahenni's few stories were the only really good ones, though laughing planeswalkers.jpg was also ok.

BFZ, content aside, was a mess. Not to mention they end it with like 5 stories of nearly the exact same events happening (Kozilek showing up, namely) from a handful of different people.

>>52605024
Sadly, L'Etoile seems to be giving instructions on how to write Chandra to others, based on how she's been written recently.

>>52604944
>"I feel it was adequately foreshadowed and properly justified in the end" really seems like defending it.
Well how was it not?

>>52605024
I'm not treating Battle for Zendikar standalone, but the entire BfZ-OotG arc as a single plotline.
>Not to mention they end it with like 5 stories of nearly the exact same events happening (Kozilek showing up, namely) from a handful of different people.
That wasn't bad, though. Especially seeing it from Ob Nixilis' angle since he was the closest thing to a lithomancer on-site.

>>52605043
It was bad though, showing nearly the same events happening that many times in a row is almost inherently bad. They could have possibly made it better but I can't really think of how they could have.

>>52605043
>Well how was it not?
It's not foreshadowed at all. Ugin tells them to not fucking kill the eldrazi and then they do.
The only justification is "Zendikar mana is SUPER good you guys" and while that's not technically wrong it's barring on a retcon for how stupid it is regarding the eldrazi.

Though since origins wotc has had their fair share of retcons.

>>52605036
Whenever wotc asks about the story I try to politely tell them to get him to fuck off but I don't think it's working.

didn't mean to quote your post twice

>>52605078
>showing nearly the same events happening that many times in a row is almost inherently bad
Well that's just a baseless claim to make. Writing the same thing happening is poor direction, but writing different takes on the same major event from multiple angles is not. It's how concurrent storylines work.
>It's not foreshadowed at all. Ugin tells them to not fucking kill the eldrazi and then they do.
It was foreshadowed with Ugin's method of binding the eldrazi to begin with.
He doesn't tell them not to, he tells Jace they can't. Beyond that they had no other options and no guarantees it would work. How's that an inconsistency?
>The only justification is "Zendikar mana is SUPER good you guys" and while that's not technically wrong it's barring on a retcon for how stupid it is regarding the eldrazi.
Zendikar was described as absurdly powerful the first time around too. It was the plane that could devour planeswalkers and was surging with incredible massive beasts and typhoons of magic even before the Eldrazi were released.
The only retcons are the nature of the Eldrazi, because we didn't HAVE a nature of them the first time around, they were just esoteric entities. We barely even saw them, their cards held more information than the story.

>>52605133
>The only retcons are the nature of the Eldrazi, because we didn't HAVE a nature of them the first time around, they were just esoteric entities.
That's not a retcon that's just adding information where there was none.

>How's that an inconsistency?
I didn't say them killing the titans was inconsistent, I said it was stupid and a dumb plot twist.

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>all these niggers now saying "it wasn't that bad"

Oh, of course it wasn't bad. It was fucking atrocious. From now on I'll assume everyone defending BFZ story is baiting/trolling or is a WotC employee.

>>52605178
Everyone (rightfully) came to that conclusion when the story first came out.

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>>52605159
Well nobody's saying you can't find it stupid, I just found the explanations and executions satisfying enough by the time they were actually written.
I fundamentally agree with how the direction is atrocious. Killing off the titans was sudden, inappropriate for their representative genre (of cosmic horror), and kinda kills any hopes of future Eldrazi cards once the fatigue of them wears off.

>>52605178
It may just be a miscommunication between what people consider "the story". I (the poster defending it) am referring only to the actual story part, as in what was written for the web articles. The direction and overarching script are not what I attempt to defend.

>>52605224
After Eldrazi Winter and two Eldrazi blocks, it'll need to be at least five years, if not ten.

>>52605278
I'm saying they're both bad, though the script is worse than the actual writing.

Mostly the "Nissa and Garruk fight an eldrazi for twenty paragraphs and BONES CRUSHING and SINEW TEARING" and all that shit.

For people that engage in the worst cancer of this board, has the attempt to start a third snowstorm failed? Haven't seen a thread in a few days.

>>52605321
There was a flake thread a day or two ago I think.

>>52605299
It's hard to write fight scenes imo.
>>52605321
There was one thread but we haven't started another yet since the lore thread lasted a good while

>>52589491
They did it with nissa

>>52605299
Perhaps I'm just overly colored by how much I enjoyed the "good parts", then.
Especially Ob Nixilis' perspective. Nik Davidson is easily my favorite MtG writer. Or that story where Tazri goes insane over the course of a billion years in Kozilek's distortion field.

>>52605369
Three inches of water was a good story, yea. Tazri's and Drana's too.

They had good stories in there, but most of them were bad.

>>52604890
I would honestly not being pulled into his uncharted realm more often.
Fucker does good work.
Maybe they just didn't think he was a good fit for Kaladesh?

>>52605457
I can imagine his Amonkhet work now.

>Liliana has an encounter with her third demon in which her mind is ravaged.
>A female member of the Gatewatch gets Slave of Bolas'd.
>We see into the warped perspective of either the white kitty god or the red doggy god.

>>52605535
>they let him write Bolas exclusively

>>52605681
No, that has to be Nik Davidson and Ken Troop working together.

>>52605321
We should make another thread on Monday

>>52599668
This. Out if all the lore changes this is the thing I hate the most. -being - the planes walker was pure good flavor

>>52605876
You're still a walker though.

>>52605901
But a neo walker couldn't cast all those spells

>>52605996
You're a powerful neo walker.

>>52605996
I think they could.

However, that is something in the flavor I'm really bummed about too. Being a planeswalker was cool. It's hard to feel like a planeswalker when instead of casting lightning bolt and counter spell, or summoning a giant spider, you're casting Chandra's Firecrotch Display, Jace's Rebuttal, or summoning Gideon's Dudes.
A lot more spells have also become, just, mundane things happening. Which makes it weird then that it's a *spell* and not just an event that costs mana for game balance that arbitrarily is happening.

>>52583928
>he is old enough and wise enough to not let nahiri's actions change his outlook
You're giving the creative team far too much credit.

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>>52606027
How does the lore justify casting and controlling things like pic related?

>>52606501
If nu walkers can get enough fire to kill it why can't you just summon it.

Nahiri kind of did, too

>>52606534
Fair enough.

>>52605996
who says we are neo-walkers?

>>52606501
Arent we only summoning an aspects of them, not actually summoning the being itself, hence why creatures/planeswalkers have different abilities/strengths then in lore.

>>52607021
Everyone is neowalkers.

>>52607021
since the Mending, everyone is a neowalker

>>52606027
For you.

The reason why so many old cards feel so terrible is because they are pre mending, and the only source for us to learn about them and thus cast them is very few sources like the remaining old walkers. If someone like Nico Bolas cast a healing salve it would have a much more potent and extreme effect then if a neowalker did as they only have a vague understanding of the magic, while the ol gay dragon was there when the spell was more common.

>>52606096
Spells were always abstractions of something that inspired you (as the caster). They've just realized they're going to risk running out of good names, so they sound more lame these days.

Show and Tell isn't literally a classroom. Sneak Attack isn't literally goblins fucking around.

>>52603006
>Infinite loop of magic?
You just need a basalt monolith and rings of brighthearth

>>52603006
>"Tricking" a titan into a barren plane.
>infinite time loop with some powerful artifacts from various planes.
>bind both physical and nonphysical partd of a titan to a collapsing plane, one character could hold it on the dying plane while others distract its ethereal form in the blind eternities. Use fucking ugin. Whatever

>>52606096
>>52606501
>>52606534
>>52607021
>>52608222
How come Nissa was the only one that could summon a creature during the stories? And it also felt like a planeswalker ability (flip nissa). We need more in lore summoning like Gideon casting a Bant lion, Chandra an elemental, etc.

>>52607290
>>52607113
Where is this stated? I assumed we were still old walkers, just pre-mending.

>>52608464
Creatures are the domain of green; green doesn't really have anything non-creature way of attacking other planeswalkers, in terms of magic. The closest you get is Garruk, who had a habit of casting Gigantic Fucking Axe at whoever pissed him off - and sadly, equipment can't be wielded by the player.

>>52608499
It's not explicitly stated that everyone is neowalkers that I know of, but the fact that the Mending was a multiversal phenomenon that could even hinder omnipotent beings like Nicol Bolas would imply that we too have been neowalkered. We are oldwalkers in as much as we existed prior to the Mending, but I assume we too have been reduced by its passing. It's an aspect of fluff that's never really been properly addressed by WotC to my knowledge, though I think it's a good explanation for the creature power creep we've been seeing.

>>52608521
What I meant was that we neee more creature summoning by the jacetice league instead of just spells (dispells by jace, firesomething by chandra, gideon being indestructible).

I will grant that Nissa did summon an elemental in the fight against Baral and that Lili always summons zambambos.

>>52608558
>Time Spiral was part of the original Modern (even if it wasn't the first block with the new borders).
>Modern has a lower power level than previous eternal formats.
It's almost pottery.

>>52608569
And I'm just explaining why Green does it when no one else does.

White has detainment magic that usually gets represented by magical shackles, cages or some pretty impressive banishing, blue has bounce that's usually represented by either banishing magic like white or washing their foes away with water, black has genuine death magic, causing people to rot away with all sorts of necrotic energies while red has lightning bolts, fireballs and other destructive elemental damage.

If green had a method of doing magic without creatures, I assure you, we wouldn't have a single planeswalker in the lore that does battle through summoning creatures.

>>52595767
I don't know anon. I don't know why every line that involves chandra makes me want to puke. It's like they didn't know how to write a character that was spontaneous and passionate, so instead just went with LOUD AND OBNOXIOUS.

The weird part is I don't know who they're writing this stuff for. Most casual players don't even bother with the lore. Honestly, the writing nowadays seems like its written for children. I wouldn't even say young adults anymore. Harry potter was more eloquent.

>>52599592
Yes they did.

>>52595767
And why is it written in first person? Is the author incapable of giving a character's perspective in third person?

>>52604906
You at least will be glad his contract was not renewed.

>>52609082
They're writing for people who don't actually play the game.

No, I'm serious. People that take an interest in MtG without being interested enough to actually play the game tend to be lore aficionados. It's the main exposure that non-players have to the game. The card art and the lore is the only real thing that non-players can really look at, when hunting for outrage material. So, it's designed to be as non-offensive as possible and to cater to the outrage generators in an attempt to avoid negative press.

>>52608569
Well, in last week's story Jace DID summon a creature.
Of course, since it's Jace, it was an illusion, because that's the kind of creature he summons, but he did it and it essentially 'blocked' for them (by luring some of the giant sandwurms away from them)

>>52609146
I'm not even talking about the content of the writing. I could understand them wanting to write unoffensive stuff, but at least write it in a way that doesn't look like it's straight out of a childrens novel.

>>52609452
But anon, they're writing for the sort of people who consider 'adult content' offensive and problematic.

>>52609538
I can't even tell if you're memeing or not anymore

>>52596281

Or go to an uninhabited plane???

>>52609144
Oh shit seriously?

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>>52608521
>and sadly, equipment can't be wielded by the player.

That's wrong though.

>The only way for the gatewatch to defeat Bolas is to find sarkhan, who knows Bolas plans but Bolas does not know about him because he doesn't existed in the new timeline

But no, expect some friendship lesbian shit

>tfw avacyn died for a plot convenience
And Big Sig can take her place. Not a whole lot lost there, apart from a few cup sizes.

>the eldrazi got brushed under the rug because the writers made them too strong to start with
They were stupid anyway.

>we won't see sorin again for literal irl years
Good end.


>when he comes back he'll probably be a villain and nahiri will join the gatewatch to kill him
Probably, but he was already a pretty shitty person.

I actually like Shadow's story right up until the actual Gatewatch part kicked in.

>>52609567
I'm not

>>52610145
Shadows was weird, because it was bleh when the gatewatch showed up, then immediately turned back around again when Emrakul fucked them all over.
the 'me'mrakul we'mrakul' bullshit was stupid as hell regardless though

>>52608336

And 13 squirrels can take down emarkul

>>52612281
Shame there's no squirrels left, since some number mindlessly attacked into Emrakul and whatever other parts of Emrakul are lying about when their controller got mindfucked
Also a shame they can't fly and thus can't do much of anything to gangblock Emrakul.
Or it's Aeons Torn and 13 doesn't do shit to it.

>>52612356
This reminds me of a comic I've always wanted to draw.

>Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is rampaging through Zendikar.
>Entire landscapes evaporate from her mere presence.
>She draws closer to a forest, her tendrils leaving broad swathes of destruction in her wake.
>Pan to a Deadly Recluse, sitting in a tree branch.
>A tendril comes too close, and the spider bites it.
>Close-up of Emrakul's eye.
>Emrakul, the Recluse, and everything around them evaporate in a stream of white.

>>52595373
>>52597647
>>52603982
>>52608569
>jacetice league

Please don’t be disrespectful of the story. You might not care but others do.

Supposedly they'll stop following the Jacetice League after Hour of Devestation.

>>52612832
How much did WotC pay you, or are you just an intern?

>>52602843
Three way planefucking revenge grudgematch between Sorin, Nahiri and Ugin

I can dig it. We get to see how many planes get turned to shit by petty and vindictive oldwalkers trolling each other before they are forced to sit down and talk to each other like adults.

>>52612956
Nah, here's what's going to happen.
Hour of Devastation rolls around, Bolas slaps the shit out of the 5, none of them die, but they all panic-walk in different directions. It's kind of a given that nobody wants to go back to Ravnica because that's the first place Bolas would look.
Atlazan happens and it's Ajani being Ajani. Maybe one of the others pops in to say what happens and gets a told-you-so, maybe not. Likely either Jace or Gideon - if the latter, he shows up in some flavor text, maybe depicted on an instant or sorcery, not a planeswalker card, he's the most beat up, if the former he takes part in the stuff going on because Vraska.
Then the next couple blocks each follow ONE of the origins-5 members as they fuck about, trying to figure out some way to undo the whatever-it-is Bolas did in Hour and gathering allies like Ajani told them to originally. New oaths, new members of the Gatewatch that aren't just Gideon/Jace/Liliana/Chandra/Nissa.
Then, once each of them gets a block, everybody gets back together again, nice and happy! They solve some big worldending conflict on a popular plane that's being returned to, and then shit repeats itself. They split up, sometimes pair off, then converge eventually.

>>52613149
Any hope there may be a return to Lorwyn?

>>52613210
No, because Market Research has said it's a Bad Horrible Plane Nobody Likes, and thus Upper Management won't let them even try, just like Kamigawa.

>>52610123
Sarkhan still existed in this time line. Absolutely nothing changed outside of Tarkir. In creative's words, "someone who called themselves Sarkhan Vol" did all the things Sarkhan did before even though he wasn't born in this timeline. I'm still surprised people misunderstand this since Wizards made a big deal about how they did it so there couldn't be any shit for time travel to fuck with.

>>52605369
i kind of dislike that Ob Nixilis has sort of taken the "first person perspective villain" role since I feel like more than him, we could really use Tezzeret from the first person. One of his "things" is that he manipulates people using his temperament, and that's something that's tough to portray from the third person. Right now for example you see Tezzeret go over the top pissed and you see Rashmi go "It seems lie he's "doing that to push me harder" or something and it's a little hamfisted. I could see easily see an inner monologue about how e chooses to portray himself to better control people and it would be pretty interesting and also make it clearer that he isn't just a generic bad guy.

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>>52613210
Oh god please no. Lorwyn was the last good plane. Just having Nissa go there in Origins was dirty enough, we don't need the full retinue of Jacewalkers trampling all over the last good thing MTG lore ever put out.

>>52613252
We already solved this one.
Some random guy was born on Tarkir what was scared shitless of dragons enough that his spark ignited.
He went from plane to plane trying to find JUST ONE that had NO DRAGONS, and almost gave up when he stumbled upon this odd little place where he was the only human. Sure, the neighbors were weird, the ones always talking about eyes and the others about pies, and the little bugs kept buzzing in his ears no matter how many he squashed. And the giants were always causing a rucus. Though at least the goblins only threw fish instead of highly explosive bottled dragonfire. And there were NO DRAGONS ANYWHERE. So he built himself a cottage on a little knoll.
And then the Aurora hits, changes his memory so that he becomes Sarkhan Vol as we know him, and he goes to find DRAGONS to WORSHIP because obviously they're all dead on his homeplane, and do all those Vol Things he did

>>52613300
But Oona and dual colored cards.

>>52608558
>They took damage off the stack because of the mending.

>>52613301
This was funny to read but the last part doesn't work since we blue hair streak shirtless Sarkhan came out fully formed from Ugin's Nexus. I honestly don't think there's any way to make sense of the explanation.

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>>52613210
>>52613300
>tfw there will never be a set with such awesome flavor again

>>52613329
There's two Vols out there. Or well, there might be.
Former Coward Vol either is still out there, or just kinda ceased to exist when he tried to go to Tarkir in this timeline, what with it being so changed.
Or just kinda planeswalked there and got immediately ate/planeswalked into solid rock/etc.

>>52606501
Ob Nixilis hard-casted Kozilek, the Great Distortion simply because he has that much land left over from his last "game" (dozens or hundreds of worlds still paying tribute to him). Nahiri summoned Emrakul, the Promised End by recycling Avacyn's mana.
The answer is you don't really "control" them. You just offer up a beacon of mana and they come, and the havoc they wreak is only gently coaxed by the planeswalker.

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>>52613345
>tfw Selkies aren't their own tribe
>tfw there will never be enough Selkies for Selkie tribal anyway
>tfw the perfect UG race will never return

I want to go back. Back to when I had hope for this game.

>>52613548
Petition?

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>>52613548
>>52613631
>We petition Wizards to return to Lorwyn/Shadowmoor
>Somehow this convinces them to revisit the plane
>The new set is shit and all of the planes unique charm and lore is overshadowed by the Jacetice League and their wacky adventures
Such is life as a vorthos.

>>52593852
Not to mention a literal Eldrich Moon that one can only assume corrupts during the full moon. Also Emmy warned of something far stronger than the Eldrazi is coming and mortals were fools for not accepting the merciful change. I think the potential is still there for a future set

>>52612560
I REQUIRE THIS IN MY LIFE

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>>52608521
>>52609888
also this

>>52613291
god, please no, in the current state, it will be millenial whining like that of Chandra

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>>52614317
You just can't get flavor like this anymore. If this was printed these days, the flavor text would be one of the Manateers giving their opinion on goblins stealing goats or some shit.

>>52593852
>I feel like innistrad is [...] going to be interesting.
That would be impressive, given that it never was before.

>>52598022
>phazon
someone else understands the true nature of Le Corruption

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>>52612975

>>52617327
"Those goblins are more industrious than I, a pyromancer, give them credit for. They are downright wacky. While at first I thought they were just stealing goats to be random and fun, I think they might be training to steal a cloudgoat one day! Really makes me want to spaz out for no reason, because characters with attention difficulties need to be having a manic episode one-hundred percent of the time."

oh, wait, nevermind. it'd be something about wanting roasted goat curry. now I want roasted goat

>>52617693
"TALK ABOUT GETTING YOUR GOAT!"
- Chandra Nalaar

>>52606501
magic?
mana and power seem to follow some retarded logarithmic progression in terms of bigness

>>52617742
goddammit that is 100% how that would go

>>52617742
oh

>>52606501
it's an artificial construct based off of the real deal

>>52613210
No
Lorwyn and Shadowmoor merge thanks to the end of the Great Aurora, so you can't go to either or

>>52618048
Does this mean Oona is an even stronger megabitch?

>>52618098
No, but her mind-clone replacement is.

>>52617742
MaRo is going to see this and we are going to get a Goatnapper reprint in the next core set entirely because it.

It will almost be worth it.

>>52608015

Headcannon not allowed

>>52614376
>Also Emmy warned of something far stronger than the Eldrazi is coming and mortals were fools for not accepting the merciful change.
when was that

I just remember her saying "the world is not ready for me" or something

>>52614376
>>52620226
What?

>>52618098
Oona was killed by Oona, so now Oona's in charge.

>>52625916
You lost me. Anyone want to provide a rundown of Oona's lore?

>>52595439
THIS

>>52626734
Oona created Oona, because of the Mending fucking up Oona's plans and Oona not being sure she'd still be Oona. She was wrong, and Oona was Oona, but Oona decided she didn't like being Oona's backup and wanted to be Oona instead, so Oona decided to betray and murder Oona, thus becoming the new Oona, but Oona isn't as much of a bitch as Oona.

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>>52627234
And she's an elf now