/HHG/ The Horus Heresy General

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>>52570310
First for the

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>>52570333
Hey, he got trips for the

Why is assembling minis so hard? I just spend a better part of 3 hours and all I got out of it was 3 tacticals, who still need some work on them. At this rate assembling 2 blobs takes a whole work week.

>>52570347
Plastic or resin?

>>52570363
Plastic.

>>52570388
Plastic or super glue

>>52570394
Plastic. Though what does it matter, I haven't noticed much of a difference between the two when putting together minis.

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Sup /hhg/
Who here thinks that power armored marine lightning claws would make for good talons/simply looked decently sized?
Sorry about the phone picture

>>52570511

Certainly not in that pose they don't.

>>52570470
>With Secutarii being the hotness taking only a 60 point HQ and two 35 point Thrall units gives you lots of space for Peltasts and Hoplites in Triaros. You lose super MTC and scoring in enemy deployment tanks but if you want a mechanized shooty horde plain Taghmata does it a bit better.
What would be the best way to Reductor without going Matrix of Ruin @ 12 Medusae/turn ft a billion haywire/second...plus 6 Thallax?
There obviously has to be something better.

>>52570347
Honestly dude, you just have to enjoy the journey. And if that's hard, try to find ways to make it easier. Always always always have a movie or some music or a podcast or whatever. Get into that zone where you're kind of working on autopilot on the task but just aware enough to make the right decisions or just be able to tighten your focus when you need to, and just enjoy your auxiliary entertainment.

ohgodhelpmeI'mahopelessscreenaddictedmilennialIliterallyneednetflixtofallasleepatnight

>>52570347

It does not take an hour to assemble a tactical marine, friend.

Do you have nerve damage?

>>52570528
>Couldn't get the blue tact to fucking keep shit in place

What do you guys use to pre-fit your models?

>>52570347
I guess getting the hang of which sub-assemblies you can do in batches help. For example, I put all the torso halves together in one go, then while they're drying clip out the legs, then by the time I've done that and cleaned the legs' moldlines the torsos will be dry enough to glue onto the legs, and so on. With experience you'll find your own way of doing things, and the process will speed up.

>>52570538
>taking large blast barrage in squadrons
Flipping large blast templates means missing entirely most of the time, why does anyone thing that's a good idea...?

>>52570584
Do you count clipping them from sprues and cleaning the bits as part of the assembly or not?

Where can I find 30k Secutarii rules?

>>52570689
Do you have clippers or are you just trying to knife it?

>>52570721
Book 7.

>>52570721
Inferno.

>>52570775
Whichever works. Some pieces are hard to get with a clipper and some thin pieces might get broken with a clipper.

>>52570593

>What do you guys use to pre-fit your models?

My bare hands.

>>52570689

It should only take you maybe 15-20 minutes to snip and clean a single infantry model at a casual pace. Possibly a bit longer if it's an older model with a messier sprue and you're obsessive about mould lines.

>>52570721
Also, take note that the Secutarii HQ is NOT an Independent Character so figuring out if you want to invest points into a way to protect against slay the warlord VPs can be an issue. Personally I like the idea of just leaving him in reserve and hoping he stays there for a while. He has a pretty amazing statline for a 60 point model but he's still just a solo Marine with an extra wound if he's stuck on his own.

>>52570511
Somebody photoshop this guy behind a turntable !

>>52570896
That's got to be an error.

>>52570630
Do you do subassemblies? I'm worried I won't be able to reach a lot of parts on Cata and Taros termies if I put them together prior to painting, I've only painted power armour so far.

>>52570593

The first thing I do is paint on the sprue, makes everything go much quicker.

Then you pretty much just need to snap the bits off their frame and glue them together.

So I was looking at the sokar stormbird, and noticed something odd about the thunder hawk in the comparison pics.

Forge world are cheeky fucks

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Space-Marine-Sokar-pattern-Stormbird

>>52571034
It might not be. A 95 point allied detachment could be used to give PE(Infantry) to a Sworn Brothers shooting unit that doesn't need a transport if he could join a unit. You can do a similar thing with a Malagra, but he costs literally twice as much so it's not nearly as appealing.

That said, the Axiarch does have the Kyropatris thing which does nothing without more of them in the unit. Book 7 has so many errors that it's very possible, but there is a case for it either way.

>>52571109

One of the hurricane Bolters is on backwards?

>>52571150
Look at the wings, then at the old thawk pics and the ones we have in the VI/VII images

>>52571109
What, that heavy bolter on the left side of the Thunderhawk ?

>>52571179
Nah m8, it's the same Red Scorpions shoddy piece of resin repainted black. Look at the tail and the winglets over the jets.

>>52570868
Depends on the details as well. If it's a straight surface, that's easy to clean. If it's one with a loot of details going along the seam, then cleaning that mould line is way more time consuming. I had to clean my work station 3 times during the operation, though I did clean up more than 3 models worth of bits, being under the delusion I could do them all.

>>52571066
Main thing is to leave bolters off before painting as otherwise they block easy painting of the chestplate. Some people also leave off backpacks and heads, though I don't myself.

>>52571370
I leave off the arms.

>>52571370
>>52571392
What about the termies (Indomitus notwithstanding)?

>>52570347
Cutting out, cleaning, and glueing a marine should take 10 minutes each. Maybe 15 minutes for mk 3 because of the fucking retard at GW who decided their legs and backpacks needed to be 2 parts each.

>>52571411
Arms off too for me.

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>>52571422
What about their heads?

>>52571420
If they didn't make them 2 part, people would be bitching about lack of detail and other things.

I fucked up assembling mk III backpacks and some of them have the wrong two parts assembled. Anyone has some idea on how to fix it?

>>52571485
What's bad about it? I haven't looked close enough to notice any difference between the parts.

>>52571503
I didn't even know there was more than one design of backpack. What's the difference?

>>52571455
They are left on.

>>52571536
Spacing of the top bands.

>>52571485
What glue did you use?

>>52571571
Superglue, the plastic hasn't melted but I tried to separate them and the pieces almost broke

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>>52571485
Maybe try glueing something blocky on top (a piece from the sprue if you got nothing else) to obscure the disalignment of the wires going over it.

Pic related don't judge, I'm not an artist with MS paint

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Custodes Shield Captain: Should I put the Archeotech Pistol on the back of his Solerite Gauntlet, like with Calgar; on the back of it like with Kandor; just put a holster on his hip; or put it on the inside of his shield like the Suzerains have it?
Or should I leave it off? I mean, chances are I'll at best get two shots a game.

>>52572188
Leave it. That's 20 pts. saved.
Throw your plasma grenade if you have to and then munch up stuff with the paragon spear.

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>>52572188
Option F: DAKKAFACE.

>>52572223
Paragpn Spear is for scrubs, I'd rather use the Solerite Gauntlet for reliable S10 AP1 beatings coupled with a Praesidium Shield to hide behind.

>>52570657
Well I did say there had to be something better. Also, Reductor Medusae can shoot Phosphex munitions, which last forever. Can't miss if you're targeting the table itself :^)

>>52572281
Well, I'm not running that combo for 3 reasons:
1.) I don't wanna upset fellow players with the re-rollable 3++ & FnP combo.
2.) Spears just look much more badass in general.
3.) I'm using Ixion Hale.

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>TFW you order bits to make your custom squad
>Realize by sheer virtue of Rule of Cool you made them an effective in-game unit

Custodes are fun.

>1 Shield Captain with Solerite Power Talons

>5 Hetaeron Guard with Praesidium Shields, 3 Paragon Blades, and 2 Solerite Gauntlets

>>52572317
1) My opponents field primarchs and ten flavors of Mechanicum heroes, I don't give a shit.
2) Mostly correct, though there've been a bunch of good conversions.
3) All of my envy. The fucker is like 110€ at the cheapest here.

Are there any pictures of the differences between Shield Captains, guard squaddies, and hecatons?

>>52572386
You can find a good recast for under $40.

>>52572422
>>52572422
Captains generally have cloaks and are more ornate with minor odd details here and there.

Hetaeron are probably the same as standard Custodes but maybe with purity seals, some different colored cords and details, and maybe even inner pauldron colors.

Standard Custodes are normal boxed units.

>>52572358
Custodes are the tits. It's such a shame the internal balance of their list is shot to hell, because the overall powerlevel of the army is spot-on and it's super fun to make lists and play them.

...I just want Guardians and Sagittarum to be reasonable.

>>52572188
Shoulder mounted is an option alongside the gauntlet mounted form. Both will look great.

Having it sitting on his thighs waiting to be used is cool too

>>52572459
So are there examples of them in this thread, because that is honestly pretty vague.
The details begin to clash to me, so saying this guys ornate armor is more ornate that THIS guy's ornate armor isn't helping as much as I'd like.

>>52572472
Guardian by themselves are well rounded but sadly don't have much range.

Sagittarum Guard are super fucking cool but either need a points decrease or 5-10 per model or the Bolt Caliver needs to be Salvo 3/5 Rending

>>52572488
FW hasn't been as amazingly helpful as we'd all hoped.

They kind of hint that they're very individual, but not much more.

>>52572472
Starting to come around to them, it's a shame though that SpearStodes, BoltStodes, and Terminators are over shadowed by other options and that I'm struggling to find a fluffy way to ally them to my Luna Wolves.

Of course with the house ruling of custodes actually being allies

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To the guy asking if anyone does a Sons of Horus army, I'm slowly working on it.

These are a WIP test squad to see if I like them before splurging on some FW.

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>>52571135
>That said, the Axiarch does have the Kyropatris thing which does nothing without more of them in the unit. Book 7 has so many errors that it's very possible
Fluff is to BL like rules are to FW.
Take both with a(lots of) grain(s) of salt, and stick to your own interpretation anyway.

>>52572188
PUT IT AT THE VERY TOP OF HIS HELMET

>>52572188
Glue the archeotech pistol on his codpiece

>>52572317

>FNP

Wait, you can give a tribune FNP too? That's kinda disgusting.

>>52572772
Warlord Trait

>>52572772
Personal Traits #5 - Tenacity

>>52572568
That's a nice shade of green.

>>52572797

Oh.

I'd have just figured you'd go straight for infiltrate every time.

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God I love the Sagittarum Guard helmets and I want to put one on my Shield Captain but I'm so worried it's not fluffy.

Do we have instances of Sagittarum leaders using other equipment?

>>52572772
I know Space Marine Praetors are way below Custodian power level, but it is interesting to me that a T5 Jetbike 2+/3++ Salamander can get EW, FnP and IWND.

>>52572772
Unless someone is running Magnus, Russ, or Scoria, that particular tribune set up is fucking dickish.

>>52572527
>well rounded
Ehh, I don't know about that. They are super-dependent on getting the charge but have basically no way to actually get that. And outside the charge they are outperformed by everything else.
As for Sagittarum, I'd like to see them getting Sniper, Pinning and Salvo 3/3.

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>>52572814
>Do we have instances of Sagittarum leaders using other equipment?
What about a Shield Captain using other equipment, namely a helmet.
I don't remember what kind of Custodians the Emperor brought into the Vengeful Spirit, mostly because this pic is fake as hell since it didn't happen this way, as the hot Warmaster on Emperor action began when they were both alone.
Say the Shield Captain is wearing a helmet, for once.

>>52572828
Honestly I only ran a Tribune with FNP once because I knew my opponent was taking Curze.

Tribune with Paragon Spear, Praesidium Shield, Digital Lasers, Cyber Familiar, and FNP. He killed Curze first round of combat because he rolled 5 sixes to hit and slammed Curze with a total of 10 wounds to Invul.

Never ran it again

>>52572814
Sadly not very fluffy as far as we know. That said, the book describes custodes ranks as labyrinthine, so chances are that there is some shield-captain version of a Sagittarum.
Honestly, I'd like for Shield-Captains and Haeteron to be able to grab Adrasti just for the variety of it.

>>52572908
Memes aside, I know Valdor is Primarch tier, if not even more powerfull...but are the Tribunes that powerful as well?
What kind of rank is a Tribune anyway?
Also, Praesidiums should give 3++ rerolling ones, not also grant a fucking hit penalty.

>>52572812
Pretty much. I mean, it is nice to have FnP if you expect a major punch-up to happen, but mostly I prefer gdetting my dudes into range much quicker. It's not like the rerollable 3++ at -1 to hit isn't going to last a long time anyway.

>>52572908
Curze goes down like the little bitch he is though. First time I ran into him he got killed by my dual kheres contemptor-mortis and one kill-shot from Exodus :^)

>>52572965
Valdor gets destroyed by primarchs, maybe Lorgar or Alpharius goes down to him.

The tribune statistically takes out everyone but Russ. Even the fight with russ is so close that you might as well flip a coin.

>>52572865
>GE is S7 on the table
>Burning Blade is S+2 Blind Force Murderous Strike AP2
>GE has special rule that biomancy can make him break S10 cap for S:D
>6+ S:D melee attacks

>>52572965
Tribunes are nearly Valdor-tier in the fluff. Those are the guys explicitly tasked by the Emperor to get shit done.
As for the Praesidium, I'd say it'd be fine if the reroll only succeeded on the basic 5++ regardless of the original invuln.

>>52572965
Praesidiums should just be plain Stormshields. IF have them, Salamanders kind of have them, 40k Custodes have them, so it would have made perfect sense. But noooooo FW had to come up with some mommies special snowflake special rule just for the sake of it, because fuck keeping the rules managable right ?

>>52572965
>>52572965
There were supposedly less than a dozen Tribunes and by themselves they were more than a match for 10-15 Custodes alone.

Valdor's stats should be slightly stronger, but he's essentially Big E's right hand man and leader of Custodes.

In his case the command order is Valdor, Tribune, Shield Captain, and Hetaeron.

Hetaeron are weird because their ranks have some Shield Captains and Tribunes; they're primarily their own thing because they're the actual bodyguards who are always around unless ordered away personally.

Basically Tribunes only take a knee to Valdor and Big E.

Also the shield is weird. By itself it's fine, but stacked on a Captain or Tribune and it's rough.

>>52573063
>GE
It's Emperor of Mankind to you.
Also, now his blade is S10 Armourbane Ds on 6s. But we can pretend 40k is nothing but Perturabo's fanfiction "My Eternal Warrior", right?
>>52573058
>The Tribune is more powerful than Valdor himself.
This is what I'm talking about. It doesn't make sense to me. Space marines aren't IG where commanders aren't more powerful than their champions.
Space marines are orks, and the higher they are in the command ladder the bigger and more powerful they are.

>>52573058
Eh not so much. Valdor can take most Primarchs on an even playing field. Horus and a small set of others are going to slowly push him down though.

Admittedly watching Horus go down to Valdor and a five man squad of Hetaeron was great to see.

>>52573110
Who can he take? He doesn't have the toughness or saves to take a primach beating on him for two turns.

>>52573098
>now his blade is S10 Armourbane Ds on 6s
Isn't that it's stats in the hands of Guilliman, tho, and not it's SM relic incarnation?
What would GE's talon be like then?

>>52573141
It's very back and forth, but characters like Dorn, Guilliman, and Lorgar are ones he does very well with.

>>52573147
Have you seen that sword ? It is about as tall as Guilliman himself. I highly doubt that The Burning Blade is suppose to be the same thing, especially considering that the Emperor's sword was locked in stasis alongside Guilliman. Like on his lap alongside.

Also curious how the Emperor's model is gonna turn out, because damn that sword is fucking huge. GW kinda made it way too large.

>>52573147
Inferior to Guilliman's gauntlet because he isn't a 10,000 year old spiritual liege, demi-god that was created for eternal war.

>>52572150
Thank you anon! I'll see what I can do

>>52573288
>Inferior
Look, you, you see this >>52572865?
Look at GE's crotch? You see that eagle?
That eagle is stronger than Guilliman's gauntlet.

>>52572568
Man you fell for exactly the same trap as I did
>>52572150
>>52571485

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>>52573344
Ynnead's power > Corpse Emperor power.

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Praise Agrax

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>>52573245
I genuinely thought it was the only Burning Blade until GW said there were many, yet I don't trust them and their Seventh legions.
I bet Seneschal Rahn's Artificer Boarding Stormshield is the Shield Aeternal.

>>52573487
In the name of the base coat, the agrax earthshade and the two thin layers, amen.

Just after curze was made head of the night lords, was there a period of time where nostromoans actually sent decent recruit to join the legion before the planet slipped back into its old ways? Is there any lore or info about this period

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>>52573245
>GW kinda made it way too large.
it's always been huge

>>52573487
Can we see that Heavy Support sergeant up close, or do you happen to have a finished one? A (greek?) crest looks surprisingly good with Barbaran MkIII chest nozzles.

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>>52573553
sure

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>>52573629
DG a best, thanks anon

>>52573500

See, this is exactly the type of stupid GW have been doing all along with the overhyping inflation of Primarchs.

You have a relic S+3 ap2 at initiative blade with a backstory that clearly marks it out as the emperor's own sword... Then nope. Guess that was just some lousy fake 'cause we have a situationally SD strength 10 sword now.

>>52573698
>implying the Emp only had a single weapon
That's like saying Guilliman only had a sword and gauntlet, or Fulgrim only had a hammer and later a sword.
Even then, you have a sword in the hands of a space marine, and a sword in the hands of a primarch. They are not going to be the same in practice.

>>52573741

Yeah the burning blade would be S7 in the hands of a marine and S9 in the hands of a Primarch. That's the difference.

>>52573786
I thought Guilliman was S7 base now because of the suit?

>>52573698
Why would the Emperor's sword be available to any Tom, Dick and Harry marine officer? Surely something like that would be locked away in the deep corners of the Imperial palace.

I'm more inclined to think Girlyman's sword is the actual blade, at least he's the type of character it would be entrusted to.

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Recommended bits to use as laslocks for Blackshields?

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>>52573786
This. It would scale nicely, allowing the Emperor to be even better with it since it's probably also a Force Weapon that only responds to him...
but nope. It's S10(D) now. The only way for the 30k version to be even better would be permanent D.
Now you've allowed the Inferno mistake to become full 40k cheese in 30k. You may as well release Eldar now.
>>52573862
>Why would the Emperor's sword be available to any Tom, Dick and Harry marine officer?
Stuff like that happens. It's like the Sanguinor or Batman; it goes away when you're not looking.
OOooor indeed there are many Burning Blade replicas, and the codex is a lie, or +3Str translates as Situational D + Armourbane and basically Slaanesh Dick's stats in the hands of Guilliman.
But that's bullshit :^)

>>52573917
Maybe something like the lasgun alternative from Anvil? It's a bit more techy and might work as a Marine weapon.

>>52573940
Or 'The Burning Blade' is just a well known hoax that techmarines pull off when they're bored.

>Poor promethium all over a powersword
>Set it on fire
>"Holy Emperor guyzs look ! The burning blade somehow appeared in our armoury !"
>++giggle in binaric++

>>52573917
Skitarii galvanic rifles.

>>52573917
the old RT lasguns

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List opinions please! The idea is that this army gets dropped off somewhere and then has to operate independently for a while, so no drop pods or aircraft support. It's basically two bikes squads, two jetbike squads, two Land Raider-mounted squads, two Javelins, and a squad of 3 attack bikes.

I'm not entirely sure when Battlescribe includes the sergeant in the squad count or not but I think I have it right.

White Scars, 2500 points (2495 currently)
Chogorian Brotherhood RoW

+ HQ +

Praetor on Bike [195pts]
>Artificer Armour, Cyber-hawk, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, Melta Bombs, Power Glaive

Librarian on Bike [150pts]
>Mastery Level 1, Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Glaive

+ Troops +

6-man Outrider Squad [235pts] - Praetor joins them
>Sergeant: Melta Bombs, Power Glaive
>2x Power Swords

6-man Outrider Squad [235pts] - Librarian joins them
>Sergeant: Melta Bombs, Power Glaive
>2x Power Swords

6-man Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron [275pts]
>Sergeant upgrade (no special gear)
>2x Volkite Culverin

6-man Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron [275pts]
>Sergeant upgrade (no special gear)
>2x Volkite Culverin

7-man Tactical Support Squad w/ Flamers [145pts] - will go in a Land Raider
>Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs

+ Fast Attack +

3x Attack Bikes w/ Multi-Meltas [150pts]

1x Javelin Attack Speeder w/ TL Cyclone Missile Launcher [70pts]
>Multi-melta, Hunter-killer Missile

1x Javelin Attack Speeder w/ TL Cyclone Missile Launcher [70pts]
>Multi-melta, Hunter-killer Missile

+ Heavy Support +

7-man Heavy Support Squad w/ Missile Launchers [280pts] - will go in a Land Raider
>Flakk missiles
>Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs

Land Raider Proteus [210pts]
>Hull-mounted Twin-Linked Lascannon

Land Raider Proteus [210pts]
>Hull-mounted Twin-Linked Lascannon

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>>52574001
>>++giggle in binaric++
I need a reaction for that.

>>52574106
01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101011 00001101 00001010 01110010 01100101 01110100 01100001 01110010 01100100 01100101 01100100 00100000 01110011 01110000 01101000 01100101 01110011 01110011 00100000 01100011 01110101 01100011 01101011 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01101011 00100000 01101001 01110100 00100111 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100011 01101111 01110010 01110000 01110011 01100101 01100110 01110101 01100011 01101011 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100000 01110011 01110111 01101111 01110010 01100100

I just heard Horus has a mini-me. Is this true?

>>52574090
Personally (with no regards to fluff), I'd drop the
LRs and grab a pair of Sicarians with Lascannon sponsons, then either drop the Support squads or give them Rhinos.

If you're not opposed to it, then Quad Launchers might suit your list well. I guess it does kinda work as the rearguard in a drop-propelled course, plus pretty sure mongols had catapults. Barring that, getting 3 Javelins per squad will give some unholy anti- infantry/light vehicle and even strip some AV14 in a pinch.

Looks okay so far, though really powerful lists will hurt it badly.

>>52574263
Aximand, aka Little Horus.
And, yes, he was actually pretty small for a spacemarine.

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Loyalist Word Bearers/Imperial Heralds do get the Legiones Astartes part of the rules, don't they?

>>52573940
On a completely unrelated note: What's up with that font? It's so terrible regarding letter spacing, holy shit.

>>52574349
>"Aren't you a little short for a space marine?"

>>52574263

Little Horus Aximand, the man dignity forgot.

5th company captain of the most decorated legion and all history will remember him for is being a tiny version of the Warmaster, nicknamed little and unable to ever leave that shadow.

>>52573487
Swedes used to believe finns bred with trolls and had magical powers. I'm starting to think it's true, only explanation on how fast you're painting these Death Guard.

>>52574399
>Must be *this* high to Space Marine.

>>52574263
>>52574349
It's Abaddon.

>>52574393
Converting epubs tends to fuck with spacing.

>>52574349
>>52574413

The words "Little Horus Aximand" have exactly the right number of syllables to be the first line of a playground jump rope song.

>>52574413
the character to have arguably the single best sentence written about him in the whole HH series to date.

>>52574387
Why did the primarchs treat the terran marines so badly? Seems that the only reason that the primarchs disliked the terrans was because they didn't belong to the primarchs own retarded snowflake cultures of psychopaths or idiots.

>>52574428
DGanon is a finnfag?

>open image
>zoom and enhance
>read text on the red jar

Perkele!

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>>52574263
There's Abaddon, Aximand and the clone.
Horus has a shitton of mini-mes

>>52574476
Because the majority of the Terran marines were actually older than the Primarchs themselves, which they probably couldn't stand after being revered by an all-human population.

>>52574471

Do tell.

>>52574387
It would make sense to me and I'd allow it, but no, not as written. You can't use any of their rules in the Legions book if they're loyalists.

>>52574516
I don't think that's true. Didn't the Emperor start the legions with genetic material/data left over from the primarch project after they were whisked away as babies?

>>52574413

> the man dignity forgot

No that's Abaddon.

>>52574520
> Then again, once they reattached his face, all he ever really looked was invincible.

>>52574647
>It was the warp, deal with it

:^)

>>52573047

>2+/4++
>12" move ignoring terrain
>Hit and Run
>Stealth and Shrouded

Never lost Curze in a game.

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>>52574566
mfw
I'm more a by-the-book player so if it's disallowed RAW, I rather wouldn't bother having a discussion about it.
A shame really, though it also makes sense the otherwise, given the whole 40 years' purge of loyalists.

>>52574387
officially no, there are no loyalist word bearers by the time of the Heresy as far as FW is concerned
besides, literally all the benefits to playing WB rely on using daemon shit, and its kinda hard to be loyalist while using daemon shit
if your dead set on using them I'd pick another melee focused legion rules and proxy, id go for Dangels myself.

>>52574710
My opponent thought he could have Curze run around alone because the game was almost over and I didn't have many units left.

Turned out he thought wrong. Just as planned ...

>>52574387
Maybe play them using the 'unknown/unreleased legion' rules and choosing Stubborn ?

>>52574779
I meant strictly the LA(WB) part, no legion specific wargear, rites, units etc.
But DA are a good suggestion as well as one of my top favourites.

>>52574806
Nah, too vanilla for me.

>>52574788

Oh, yeah, lone Primarchs are dead Primarchs.

But giving Stealth and Shrouded to 20 Assault Marines if I want to do good or 15 Night Raptors if I want to be cool makes him pretty crazy tough, doubly so since he can jump 12", charge some sucker unit and HnR another 3D6" if it all goes South. Very useful in a very BaC-focussed, Orbital Bombardment/Master of Signals heavy meta.

>>52574710
Curze dies if you do dumb shit
he's not there to open up vehicles and walkers, he mulches infantry, the odd monstrous creature and harrases everything elkse with his slipperyness

>>52574844
Definately this ^^^
My only objection might be Corax, since his unique stealth bonuses like immunity to any blast or template weapons and snap shot shenannigans go away if you attach him to a squad

>>52574832
In the strictest sence, you cannot use ANY WB rules and play as a loyalist in a game of horus heresy
Basically it wont fly in tournaments as its technically against the rules, but anywhere else I'd doubt anyone would object, hell in all the games I've played (not many) the loyalty thing doesnt even factor into our games, most of the people in my area play loyalist armies and we're all fighting each other anyways

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>>52575068
You mean you don't wait to BL to publish stories about how X fought Y or else it "totally didn't happen we can't have a game"? :^)

>>52574853

>Curze dies if you do dumb shit

Which Primarchs don't? Ferrus will die if you stand him in front of enough Graviton Imploders. Perturabo will sit and do nothing all game if you charge him into an Adsecularis blob.

>>52574992

Yeah, his almost-Invisibility, Jump Infantry movement and Hit and Run make Corax one hell of a guy; not having to spend a shitload of points on a retinue and transport is a huge point in his favour.

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>>52575122
>Which Primarchs don't?
;^)

>>52574832
The most appropriate way to run loyalist Word Bearers is probably blackshields. The legion's too far gone for them to claim to represent the 'real' Word Bearers.

It's a pity, because their Legiones Astartes (Word Bearers) rules look like they'd work for early Crusade-era WBs too.

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I'm certain Imperial Herald anon could get a friendly game with loyal WBs. Hell, I'd even accept loyal daemons and shit...provided he only uses the rules but different, appropiate models, though.
I mean, massed Ashen Circle would be a fluffy Imperial Herald tactic, close enough to the Destroyer rite people talk about.
Too bad it's only available to Layak, a literal daemon, huh?

>>52575122
>Which Primarchs don't?
Mortarion?

>>52575238
>>52575143
>>52575068
Yeah, it's a shame Ashen Circle are traitor-only.
Anyway, I might go with loyalist Night Lords instead. The basic idea is the same, to have them fighting Malcador's Silent Wars, with WBs I'd have gone with gathering the lore their former brethren left through the galaxy and so familiarising the future Inquisition to it, but Night Lords will be maximum retribution force.

>>52574090
Swap out one power sword in each outrider squad for an axe. That way if you run into something with a 2+, they can't lock your sergeant in a challenge and just tank the entire rest of the squad.

Maybe drop the glaive on the librarian, leave him with his normal force weapon, and use the spare points to give your Praetor a paragon blade instead. It's better than the glaive in all ways but the situational attack when you one-hand it.

Beyond that it seems fine.

>>52575111
Holy shit was that real!
last game I played actually was my ultramatines vs some scars a friend had made quickly as he wasnted to try out their rules
He literally just said 'I aint using your damn codex girlyman'
was good enough a fluff reason for the both of us

>>52575274

Probably the closest, but can still get hosed by Dreadnoughts, Imperial Fist Fist/Shield Terminators, or massed Plasma/Volkite/Melta/Graviton. Other than those, which in fairness kill most Primarchs, you're right in that he's pretty easy to use. Stick him in a big squad of Terminators, punch people, buff army, and use his 10" emergency get out of dodge in case everything goes wrong.

It's certainly at least partially fallacious, the old 'dies to Doom Blade' argument, but Primarchs are pretty easy to misuse or waste. I've lost almost every game when Horus has hit the table, but once I almost managed to ignore him entirely due to a poor Deep Strike (he'd never have hit combat if it wasn't for snake eyes on my difficult terrain roll to get away - damn it, boys, you're Night Lords, running away is what you do!)

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>>52575335
>Unknown origin
>Worship the Emperor as a literal god, unlike the rest of marines
>Especiallize in killing daemons
>"Yet, key honours are often deliberately removed while others are unknown to the Red Hunters Chapter archives. What glories go unrecorded, having been expunged from the minds of the Chapter's brethren, as well as redacted from such rolls of honour as adorn the armoured flanks of their vehicles and assault craft, must remain unknown forevermore for the sake of the Imperium and those who shelter within it".
Come on. they gotta be loyal WBz

>>52574285
>>52575367
Thanks, dudes. Makes sense to only give power glaives to the guys who can't get paragon or force weapons. I have to think more about the Sicaran vs. Land Raider thing... switching from missile launcher to lascannon Javelins may make it more feasible.

I kind of like the Land Raiders because I can see the Departamento Munitorum not having any idea what the White Scars need and just giving them the basics. In the old fluff Land Raiders were a lot more common than they seem to be in 30k so I thought I'd run a couple. Can you put quad mortars in them?

>>52575500
Cheers. Glad we could help.

>>52575238
Do Ashen Circle models have full-sized heads or are they smaller/disproportionate to regular Mark III helmets?

>>52575455

Word Bearers are obviously the truest heretics of all, but still I'm curious if there's a loyalist Luna Wolves chapter about.

>>52575577

What-if scenario:

Pre-heresy Luna Wolves battle barge is lost in the warp, shows up in the 41st millenium.

What do they do?

I'm semi-experienced 40k player, but at my LGS ppl play mostly with unpainted shit, which annoys me as hell. On the other hand, there's small community (around 10 ppl) who play Horus Heresy, and all of them have solid TT+ armies, which are delight to loook at.
So I've decided to give it a shot.

I'm not really interested in any of SM legions, so I think AdMech would be my way to go.
Where do I start? What would I need?

>>52575625
Depends on what kind of Mechanicum you want to run. Loyalist or Dark? Normal, REEductor, or Cybernetica?

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>>52575618
> Become the Space Sharks

Heard a lot about the meta for these guys being to use flamers for the ultimate suicide unit
but how well do they actually do with sniper rifles?
oh also does that new moritat model come with bolt pistols?

>>52574387
>Magazine holds at most, 9 rounds

They either need to start giving these things drum mags or stop depicting boltguns as ridiculously high-calibre.

It's a fucking high explosive munition, it doesn't need to equal a fucking 2 bore's calibre.

>>52574090

>Heavy Support Squads

Why not throw in a dreadnought while you're at it you race traitor.

Drop the Land Raiders, even if you're okay with not being masssively fluff accurate that Heavy Support Squad in a Land Raider doesn't become a threat ever. It can't start on the board, it maybe comes in on turn 2, they fire krak missiles as snap shots when they disembark. ITS FUCKING USELESS.

Do what the other anon said:

BIN BOTH Land Raiders. (I'd also heavily suggest binning the Support Squad with Flamers they won't be doing much).

Grab some Sicarans (one of each type) they are almost the only actual tank worth taking in the Chogorian Brotherhood list.

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>>52575724
>what is double stack

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>>52575647
Is there a real diference between loyalist and dark mechanicum? If there is, how is it?
Rest of the question is abstact to me, because I have no idea about playstyles.
I just enjoy most of the models they have (only tanks with gigant lazers are meh to me).

>>52575780
Traitors can take Based Scoria

>>52575455
>they gotta be loyal [traitor legion]
they really don't, man

>>52575780
Loyalists get Decima the Overcosted, DarkMech get Scoria the Awesome Saltminer and access to better cheap fearless scoring in the form of Levy Blob allies, which is a nice upgrade to Adsecularis.

>>52575780
>Is there a real diference between loyalist and dark mechanicum?

Dark mechanicum has Scoria. As in eats-primarchs-for-breakfast Scoria.

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>Reading Nemesis
>Officio Assassinorum is debating what to do after Erebus used psyker hax to intercept the most recent of their best assassins just before he reaches Horus
>Eversor clade sire gets fucked off at the whole 'strategy' thing and says he's just going to deploy every assassin in his clade against Horus at once
>Other sires shut him down like this is somehow a bad idea

Am I missing something? This sounds like a totally viable option. The clade must have a few hundred assassins at least, Vangorich has a hundred of them sat around on Terra as his personal bodyguards.

Just find where Horus is and bury him in explosive lunatics.

One assassin clade for the leader of the traitor Primarchs seems like a good deal.

>>52575780
Cybernetica is centered around giant stompy robots, reductor is tanks and artillery.

>>52575766
>Why not throw in a dreadnought while you're at it you race traitor.
lol. I needed some anti-air without taking a Dreadnought, and a flyer doesn't fit what I have in mind for my army's fluff. Doesn't leave many options. But I see what you mean.

>>52574439
That... Is both interesting and useless information

>>52575825
It seems like a bad idea, as it would kill the IP.

>>52575825
100 eversors killed like 2000 marines during the beheading right? Sacrificing an entire temple just to kill 5000 marines is a terrible idea considering hes behind at least 500k marines.

>>52575773
>double

Seeing how thick bolter magazines are, quad stacked would not be out of the question.

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>>52575797
>>52575820
>>52575821

wait, dark admech already got rules? I thought they would have more crazy stuff like demon engines and stuff or is that for 40k dark mech only?

>>52575884
They're assassins. If they can't infiltrate past a few hundred thousand marines, what good are they?

>>52575913
The crazy darkmech stuff is coming out later this year.

>>52575773
You know full well those magazines aren't wide enough for that.

>>52575913
Not really - there's a traitor-aligned Mechanicum character, but Dark Mechanicum will get much more in the next black book (Angelus).

>>52575913
They'll get outright faction rules in the next book, which is optimistically 9 months away but may be longer. At the moment they just have a special character, but he's truly badass and a very good way to make Primarch spam players who cannot accept that they're not perfect and can lose fights cry. Which is a good thing, since PrimarchSpartan Deathstar is the most boring build in the history of ever.

>>52575618
Didn't that already happen, and the marine escape to become a Blackshield?

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>>52573487
>>52574428
>>52574483

Torille

>>52575618
If they handed themselves over to the 40k Imperial authorities, they're dead.

So their only real options are to go renegade and try to carve out a small empire somewhere and hope the Imperium doesn't notice them.

I guess they could try to join the Deathwatch as black shields en masse but something tells me they wouldn't accept what is probably the equivilent to a chapter's worth of potential Black Legionaires into the Deathwatch all at once.

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>>52575797
>Scoria
>Based
Pick neither
>>52575809
You. I don't like you.

>>52576064
>Kills overwanked Primarchs en masse while having just enough backstory to annoy the twats.

How is he NOT based?

>>52575838
well, cybernetica sounds fun. Do they field those small troop-like robots? Or it's another build?

anyway, i think I need to look at that red book

>>52576116
He's OP and wields a scepter of powercreep. So powerful that even the Inferno has trouble with him.
I think they fit him at the end of HH6 because, had he been included in HH7, the book would have fucking exploded by having Magnus, Russ, the Tribune and him at the same time.
He's overpowered bullshit, and is survivable (or rather, avoidable) only because the Mechanicum lacks Assault Ramps on their Macrocarid. That's the SOLE reason.

>>52576024

Maybe they'd go charging off to try to kill Abaddon/do as much damage to his forces as possible.

>>52576217
With fuck all idea what the Warp really is, they'd get wiped out in pretty short order.

Plus they'd have to take the word of the modern Imperium, which would look like some twisted abomination of the Imperium they knew, that the whole Horus Heresy happened.

>>52576151
Do you mean Thallax? Yes, cybernetica can run those, but they focus on the bigger robots, such as the Castellax and Thanatars.

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>>52576200
And the SOLE reason a lot of Primarchs aren't OP as hell is that they're slow as balls, and they DO have assault transports. Unless you're deliberately trying to duel him like an idiot you can run away from him with tactical marines.
You think I call Russ OP for being untouchable in melee? All Primarchs are like that to anything not another of their kind or a massive powerfist squad, so I don't care. Scoria punches, that's it. He's the best at what he does, but what he does isn't very relevant, even if he's the best duellist bar none.

Russ, Vulkan, Horus, Ferrus, all these guys are basically unstoppable melee powerhouses that are also slow as hell, they're not OP. Neither are Corax or Mort, and they're much speedier. Is it just the fact Primarchs lose to him?

>>52575917
>Eversors
>Infiltrating

Eversors don't infiltrate, they are shot near the target.

>>52576466
>Listenhereyoufleshieshit.jpg

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>>52576514

>>52576524
T H I C C

with matching attitude

>>52572568
How'd you get that green senpai?

>>52576466
Sanguinius is going to be fucking broken. Are there any other melee expert primarchs that move that fast?

>>52576671
Probably won't have defensive buffs, though, and mediocre shooting at best. If he's a FMC and wants to come down and fight, he has to take a turn of fire out of a unit, and if he isn't you can dakka at him like a shitty Corax. I expect anything he hits to be utterly owned, though.

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>>52576671
Jaghatai Khan likes going fast

>>52576671
> Legion rules imply that the Khan and the Lion will have Jetbike options
> Also Sangy is definately gonna be 500 points as he's supposed to be like a loyalist Horus

>>52576806
>magnus is only 495

Still pisses me off.

>>52576524
>>52576550
is there any fluff out their saying that Custodes treat Astartes like they're inferior plebs?
Because that'd be quite a cool bit of development

>>52576736
assuming FW doesn't give Sanguinius some OP version of flying

>>52576990
With exceptions like
>may charge straight from flying
>may make full amount of attacks as autohits when flying over a unit
>when jinking can only be hit with Snap Shots
>auto-pass grounded tests
>whatever else is needed to make him an invicible flying comet of unstoppable doom

>>52576466
>Primarchs are slow as balls
Nonsense. Having access to Spartans and DEEPSTRIKING Kharibdis assault transports (not to mention those with enhanced movement rules), units that need to escape them cannot do so at walking speed like how it happens with Scoria. Yet most aren't OP.
BECAUSE THEY'RE LORDS OF WAR
They're supposed to be that powerful.
Scoria, meanwhile, is a fucking HQ.
It does NOT compare.
Yet somehow that HQ, that by the way is an invented special snowflake unlike an already established character in the fluff, can BEAT most Primarchs, including Fulgrim and Angron.
The only way to make the actual cyberpope Kelbor Hal 9000 even better would be to give him a rerollable 2++ and TWO Vhodian scepters or something.
Surely you agree that the power scales begin to lose sense at certain heights, which is why such heights should be entirely avoided rather than being expanded upon.
Scoria was a mistake, like the Tribune of Mankind or 495pts "Dial-M-for-Magician" Magnus.

>>52576954
In Master of Mankind Custodes treat Primarchs as inferior plebs.

>>52576954
Just a very selective handful like the one from Master of Mankind.

To be fair he hated EVERYONE, so he's not the best example.

Custodes see themselves as extensions of the Emperor's will, and as such many people think that means they hold themselves above Astartes.

BUT there is the set of fun facts that show Valdor was close friends with a few Primarchs and that many Custodes expressed sincere friendship with multiple Astartes.

>>52577074
>TWO Vhodian scepters

oh sweet Omnissiah no, I don't want to take 2d3 wounds per hit

>>52576736
>If he's a FMC and wants to come down and fight, he has to take a turn of fire out of a unit
It's not like 30k has no instances of Monstrous Creatures being able to be joined by regular units, like Battle Automata.
It's not like 40k has no instances of Independent Characters being able to Swoop and Glide like FMCs, like the Tau Starsuit.
It's not like there are no instances of mixed-profile units, like Riptide-grade battlesuits with drones, especially the flying Yvara

Then why is it inconcievable that Sanguinius is going to be able to glide (but perhaps not swoop) alongside his Sanguinary Guard?
Guilliman is considered a Monstrous Creature by 40k standards, but 30k is fine with stuffing him inside a Spartan alongside his regular-sized ornate boys without giving him Relentless or any MC rule or restriction. Again, not an issue.

>>52577074

I wouldn't be surprised if Kelbor Hal bestows a massive amount of army buffs.

Scoria is indeed a bit iffy, although i understand the reason they made him in the first place.

>>52575954
>PrimarchSpartan Deathstar is the most boring build in the history of ever.
If there was more was to get primarches into the fight, or if they had half ass decent dakka, primarches wouldn't need to be in a ride with their dudes.

>>52577237
>i understand the reason they made him in the first place.
Why? So that every faction could get a Primarch and wouldn't feel left out?

>>52577237
>although i understand the reason they made him in the first place.
>"Hey, it would be fun if we made an HQ that could easily kill Sigismund, while also not a Primarch, and available to the Mechanicum :^)"
That's my headcanon.

>>52577074
I'm fine with him being a Lord of War, honestly. I really could use the extra HQ slot more than the LoW, especially with Cybernetica.
Kelbor I imagine as more supportive and less beatsticky, given he never actually fights AFAIK.

Scoria basically doesn't have a character, he could have just been a Unique Malagra with no name or background and the same shit would have happened. If he shows up in a book or something, sure, but at the moment we wouldn't know he exists if not for the unit entry. That's not a Snowflake, or at least way less of one than the Primarchs he fights. He can be a snowflake if he ever does anything.

I can beat Fulgrim and Angron with three Myrmidons or a Plasma Support squad. They cost less and are faster, and can take transports that don't gimp them at the cost of durability. If you want it done in melee, levies. Many, many levies. They cost less, too, and serve a purpose besides dueling.

If you insist he needs a nerf, make him a LoW for all Mech armies and make the Sceptre a 50pt upgrade, so he can be stock for an EW HQ, have the sceptre for gibbing regular HQs or the sceptre and Abeyant for killing Primarchs.

>>52577142
Oddly enough, that's an option in the new Shadow War game. Toxin round sniper rifles autowound, cut armour and make the injury table over twice as bad, so a full team of Sniper scouts puts out the equivalent of a Scoria a turn, but at 36" range and can hit on 2s with upgrades.


>>52577147

Hopefully they've learnt their lesson about stacking endless special rules to negate everyone else's capabilities and the dangers of a playstyle/offensive method with Magnus, but yeah, they may do that. Gliding with the Guard would basically be the same thing as giving him a jump pack IIRC, though.

>>52577261

Most do fine with a small escort or solo, and the fact that it's the best way to get them smashing faces does not make the 1100 pt deathball less boring to play.

>>52576466
Man, Cawl looks like a green goblin or something. Look at that smug face.

>>52577261
Dropping everything into one transport basically is the same for the opponent as bringing a Knight army, just less tactical and easier. Autolose if the enemy has one of the following:

>Lightning
>Hoplites
>Secutors
>Graviton
>Laser Destroyers
>Venators and a line of fire
>Land Raider Chainfist dudes
>Vulturax

etc, etc.

Most primarchs do fine on their own or with a small squad in a Land Raider, although bringing out a Raider with 13 Transport Cap, Assault Vehicle and a slight price bump would probably be a good idea.

>>52576806
>Khan has a jetbike
>should also have a fighter jet
>a primarch sized Xiphos
>primarch statline on a fast as fuck jet
>Rip+Tear Continues: If Jaggy is shot down, place him on foot 1d6 inches from the crater with half his wounds, and he continues as infantry

>>52577237
>>52577313
>>52577271

Personally I think that it was to give Cybernetica a good answer to all those ID primarchs that they just can't fight if they arrive with any escort at all or can outmaneuver an Adsec blob, which is a good idea but could perhaps have been done differently.
A friend of mine proposed giving Domitars a slight price cut and Eternal Warrior, and using them as roadblocks, I favour making the Lascannon Thanatar a massive Darkfire Array, that shoots 8 or so Cognis Darkfire shots a turn, so you can rain plasma on them from a distance and bother Spartans if you keep it bubblewrapped with Thralls properly.

>>52577392
Eh, being 10 thousand years old will do that to you. Sexy bastard. I just love that he's walking along with a bunch of girls and posing in the middle of a war, I always imagine him as a massive manchild when he's not working. He's like the Richard Castle of Magi.

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>>52577392
>Look at that smug face.
Belisarius' actual face

>>52576954
According to BL, basically all of them.

>>52577454
This is also assuming that a melee combat character with minimal shooting is a dire threat to a primarily high power shooty army.
You are a distraction carnifex at that point, especially if you take out the transport.
I like the primarches as table pieces, but most of them are actually not worth their points in an army strategy point of view because their army buffs aren't good enough to justify the primarch, his entourage, AND his ride. Spending 600+ points for the honor of a primarch on your table and a handful of not so hot extra rules isn't worthwhile.

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Anyone know how this paint scheme was done?

>>52577520
BL's take on HH in two sentences :

>Everybody is a dickhole autismo
>The end.

>>52577520
They weren't so bad in First Heretic. Same author. Working in the Emperor's Palace warps your perception, I guess.

>>52575825
I was fucking upset when I heard Kell sided with Horus.

Fucking why BL you could end him wiht that kamikaze

>>52577641
Oh that is nothing to what happend to my opinion of BL when I learned that Loken actually didn't die at the end of False gods.

>>52577392
Do we even know what Cawl did during the heresy?

>>52577677
You mean Galaxy in Flame?

>>52577594
Yeah, that's pretty much my take on Scoria. You buy him, the Abeyant, a couple Castellax or Vorax to chill with him and then you've spent 555 points on a deterrent that could be better done with 100 Levies for half that, and not deny you Occularis or all the awesome Magi wargear.

The fast Primarchs are serious threats, though. Mortarion especially, Corax and Curze slightly less, but you have a model count too low to beat them up. Thing is, Scoria doesn't solve that either, so I just keep the Ghostbusters on call instead.

>>52577692
Was that the third book ? I try to forget it happend

>>52577677
Isstvan III doesn't start until the next book - but yes, I agree. I was glad to hear BL's chief editor acknowledge that they had brought back too many characters who should've stayed dead. They haven't even been that interesting after coming back to life.

>>52577688
Noope, but I imagine he's not yet an Archmagos due to being quite young then. He probably rose to prominence during the late Heresy and the Scouring if I was to guess, but we know nothing besides that he's that old and Guilliman gave him a personal mission.

>>52577733
So he's robo–Bjorn?

>>52577777
Presumably Ballersarius doesn't spend most of his time sleeping so he's subjectively even older.

Nice quints btw.

>>52578021
> Cawl waking up every 100 years only for a single day tinkering Bob's armor
> "Yeah it's not like Bob set me a deadline or something... Zzz"

Didn't Mechanicum have deep strikable flyer transport or something? What was its name again?

>>52578071
>Cawl spends 10k years working on a Primarch's armour and life support
>it's inferior to his own
What a scumbag.

>>52578128
Primarchs are complicated and hard to get information about. Throw in Chaos-tainted poisons that might affect a lot of common augmetics.

>>52577602
I couldn't name the colors, but it looks pretty straightforward. The gray appears to be darker than Ulthuan gray. Maybe Celesta, if it's a GW color at all. Shade with brown - pretty common to shade cool (bluish) shades of gray with something warm - and highlight with something like Ulthuan gray.

>>52577602
If using GW paints you can pull it off with an ulthuan grey and a seraphim sepia wash

If you need your hand held and guided to an exact list of paints your best bet is to do an image search and hope you can track down the person that painted it.

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>>52577098
>And that many Custodes expressed sincere friendships with multiple Astartes

So wait, that mean my XVI Legion/Custodeds team up may be possible!!!???

We gonna get into some snowflake shit real soon I've got a feeling

>>52578261
>>52578357
Thank you. for the suggestions, a few ideas is what I was looking for.

>>52578393
>We gonna get into some snowflake shit real soon
I think your loyalist Luna Wolves are pretty much already there.

Moon Yiffs had the best paint scheme but they changed it before the heresy even started. :(

>>52577777
Yeah, pretty much. Except more productive and less sleepy.

>>52578128
Is it inferior to his own? He's 2+/5++/5+++/5++++, Guilliman is 2+/3++/5+++, which is better, and Guilliman can be rezzed whereas Cawl can just fix himself about twice as good as a regular Magos. Also how, he had to return the man from near-death first, and that Eldar lady didn't exactly help much.

>>52578108

The Arvus Lighter? Yeah. It is to the Dreadclaw as the Macrocarid is to the Spartan - cheaper to start with, much more versatile and variable, scarier but more limited guns, slightly more flimsy and lacks the others special rules, no Assault Vehicle or Drop Pod Assault.
So good for shooty squads, useless for Automata because one Casty is a bit useless and Scoria/Archmagi have better things to do.
Becomes death destroyer of worlds with Hoplites, though. Best cheap and reliable suicide squad in the game, kills anything not a Titan in short order.

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I have a 5k game coming up with my Custodes and was wondering how this list would do. I know I have no AA, but my opponents have zero aircraft and a SHIT TON of infantry.

HQ: Constantin Valdor (All models have Teleportation Transponders) 275pt

HQ: Legio Custodes Tribune w/ Praesidium Shield, Cyber-Familiar, Digital Lasers, and Paragon Spear 270pt

HQ: Legio Custodes Shield Captain w/ 2 Solerite Power Talons, Cyber Familiar, Digital Lasers, and Melta Bombs 235pt

Elites: Legio Custodes Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought w/ Dreadspear 240pt

Elites: Legio Custodes Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought w/ 2 TL-Adrathic Destructors 230pt

Elites: Legio Custodes Hetaeron Squad of 5 w/ 5 Praesidium Shields, 2 Solerite Gauntlets, and 3 Paragon Blades 475pt

Troops: Legio Custodes Custodian Guard Squad of 5 w/ a Magisterium Vexilla/Sentinel WarBlade and Melta Bombs 310pt

Transport: Legio Custodes Coronus Grav Carrier w/ Extra Armor 140pt

Troops: Legio Custodes Custodian Guard Squad of 5 w/ a Pyrithite Spear and Melta Bombs 315pt

Troops: Legio Custodes Custodian Guard Squad of 5 w/ a Pyrithite Spear 290pt

Troops: Legio Custodes Sentinel Guard Squad of 5 w/ a Magisterium Vexilla and Solerite Power Gauntlet 325pt

Transport: Legio Custodes Coronus Grav Carrier w/ Extra Armor 140pt

Troops: Legio Custodes Sentinel Guard Squad of 5 w/ a Solerite Power Gauntlet 325pt

Fast Attack: Pallas Grav Attack Squad of 2 w/ Extra Armor 180pt

Fast Attack: Pallas Grav Attack Squad of 2 w/ Extra Armor 180pt

Heavy Support: Legio Custodes Caladius Grav Tank w/ TL-Arachnus Blaze Cannon and Extra Armor 215pt

Heavy Support: Legio Custodes Caladius Grav Tank w/ TL-Arachnus Blaze Cannon and Extra Armor 215pt

Heavy Support: Legio Custodes Sagittarum Squad of 10 640pt

Total = 5000pt

I haven't been on here since the Inferno tourists were spotted at the Open Day or whenever it was.

What's happened since?

>>52578816
Nothing much, just the long wait until Angelus.

>>52578791

>3 pricey HQs
>Multiple Coronus despite everyone having deep strike rendering them worthless
>4 Pallas
>No jetbikes
>10 damn Saggitarius
>Taking melta spears
>Spearnaught without a spear

Casual as all hell. Prolly a good thing honestly, means you aren't being WAAC I guess.

>>52578791
God custodes lists are so boring. Not your fault, by the way, you can only work with what you're given, but damn near every custodes list that gets posts looks basically the same.

I want to run a unit of Night Raptors, but I'm not sure if I should go for drowning opponents in cheaper Talent for Murder attacks, or if I should go ham with Chainglaives because they're already pricy. Their price is also why I'm not sure if I'll be doing a 10 or a 15 man squad, though they will have a 2/3 meltas.

Anyone have any experience here? The big advantage of the Chainglaives is having a shitload of S5 rending attacks at initiative.

>>52578701
Luna Wolves aren't yiffs. It's an earned name
>>52578727
>Guilliman can be rezzed
UTTER CANCER

Why was Eldar magic needed to revive Bob again?

>>52579174
Well, yeah. It doesn't even only happen once, either, or even cost him a turn. You basically have to shoot entire Warhounds into him every turn and pray for a 1/12 chance of a kill. I was at my local GW the weekend after his release, there were five unpainted Guillimans on the tables. Every table had one, except the big one, which had one per side. I've refused to play him after he killed a Knight and a Librarian Dread in one round.

>>52579202

Magic inclusive logic, since the Eldar were there and had to do something. Apparently his soul was injured or some bullshit, but he's still got all his old flaws and regrets, so Eldar chick plainly didn't do much. Cawl did all the work, I think.

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>Bob

His name is Rawbutt, people.

>>52579256
>It doesn't even only happen once
Wasn't there a battle report of Magnus continually killing him but Guilliman kept reviving and inching forward and managed to kill literal-daemon cannot-be-really-killed Magnus? Really activates my almonds, even if witches do end up getting stitches.

>>52579287
The offical pronunciation is "row booty"

>>52579302
Haven't seen it, but I wouldn't be surprised. Their promo game for him was so dumb, too. They sent him up against bloodletters in handy 12-man groups, that Herald of Khorne with the AP3 sword and some Bloodthirsters one by one he all one-shot, and expected everyone to be hyped about him crushing everything with no effort and skill required. They even gave him a Termie escort in case it was a bit difficult. I was praying for him to die to something random instantly just to see the look on their faces.

>>52578816
Some panic when Alan Bligh implied 30k will follow 40k into 8th edition; a lot of us were hoping it'd keep using the 7th edition rules so as to not require a full rewrite. Meanwhile, 8th ed. is rumored to paradoxically streamline the game while adding a bunch of 2nd edition features like movement stats, to-hit modifiers based on range, and armor penetration modifiers.

At Adepticon it was proven that Space Wolves are mostly fine. Russ kills every primarch except maybe Horus, and also Magnus if he gets the right psychic powers. Gray Slayers benefit from Inferno making weapons upgrades surprisingly cheaper than every other book, but otherwise they're alright and the other special units are on the expensive side.

Thousand Sons can be broken, but it's clearly pretty easy to make a nice and not-OP army.

Custodes appear to be straight up overpowered.

>>52579336
there are like seven "official" pronunciations

dunc says it the way most people do

>>52579336
>thicc Gorillaman
Please don't do this to me
I'm supposed to hate the guy

>>52578991
It's really hard to justify Night Raptors after Assault Marines got so much cheaper in the last red book. Don't feel bad, it's normal. A lot of legion-specific Terminators have the same problem.

>>52578701
>white with black
>best paint scheme
It's basic as fuck. That honour goes to the iridescent blue/green/purple with silver trim memelords.

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>>52578701
>Luna Wolves
>Yiffs

I really hope you rethink using that term

But yeah,as simple as their color scheme is, it's pretty fucking great

Where can I find rules for arvus lighter?

>>52578816
Magnus is OP, rules errors still not FAQd, Custodes seem to be unable to make a balanced build whereas Thousand Sons and Space Wolves are fine. New Mechanicum stuff is shiny as hell
Otherwise, not much in the intervening time besides discussing Angelus, the occasional threadwreck over trip/anti-trip autism and one anon posting his crazy Whale-stormbird ideas.

>>52579600
Red book for Solar Auxilia, Imperialis Militia, and Questoris Knight Crusade.

>>52579455

Maybe they'll get cheaper when Angelus comes out in 5 years!

The difference is pretty staggering. 15 ass Marines for 240 vs 10 raptors for 250. Being able to take a few melta guns is nice, but that's a significant difference. Maybe I should just use my raptors as assmarines then. I'm using 40k raptors as a base, but oh well.

>>52571370

I kinda hate having to wait to complete the model because of that.

I'd like a second opinion on a "using 40k models for 30k" idea since the READ THIS paste in the OP brings it up.

Sanguinary Guard as Emperor's Children assault marines, with the BA iconography removed and replaced w/ 30k-era ones, and 30k EC shoulders and some heads are used. The wings would obviously not be used.

I think the elegant, artificer look of the Sanguinary guard would fit the overall EC aesthetic. And without the wings, the Sanguinary Guard jump packs look a lot like 30k ones.

>>52579674
Have to use Militia ally then? Shame.

>>52579287

I have to post this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQzNZR-LXZc

>>52579889
Do you mean for the Mechanicum? Think it's in their red book, but yeah, Legions can't take them.

>>52579886
The Sanguinary Guard models are all in (modified) MK.VII so it's probably not kosher.

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I want to make a small cults/militia army to ally or just play small games with R8 my list

HQ
Force commander
-cyber familliar
-iron halo
-planetary overlord (ruthless tyrant)
-power fist
-survivors of the dark age

Disciplinary cadre
X3 discipline masters

Troops
-X3 imperial militia grenadier squads
-laslocks
-2 plasma guns
-advanced weapons(1+ str on guns)
-dedicated transport arvus lighter with twin linked autocannons

militia squad (no upgrades)

Elites
-medicae detachment

grenadier squads got str 5 guns and 3+ armor
list is exactly 1000 points

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Anybody interested in purchasing a copy of Horus Heresy Book 6 and/or the Age of Darkness Legions red book?
Both are in good condition save for some noticeable dents to the covers. Everything inside is in excellent condition.

Sorry for the poor picture quality.

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My Iron Warriors test models.

Add bronze trim and details or stick with the simpler utilitarian look from HH:3?

>>52580145
What are you attempting to sell them for?

>>52580193
$80 for both.

>>52580236
Oh, and that includes shipping. USA only.

>>52580145
Why are you selling them?

>>52580300

>USA only.

Weird how consistent y'all are about selling shit in one country only whenever someone sells shit here.

You know you live in 2017 right? I don't even want these, I just find it asinine.

>>52580599
S&H across the pond seems to be expensive and a hassle. I remember buying a lot of stuff from the US way back in the day, but at some point the prices for international shipping became really high and I've dropped US shops completely. It's several years since I bought from a US store and even then it was simply because what I was looking for was not available.

Come on, Mr. president, make overseas shipping cheaper, I want to make America great again with my soon to be worthless Yurobucks.

>>52580690

If anything raising import tax is the simplest counter to outsourcing.

I guess you could separate corporate import tax and individual sale import tax but there'd be loopholes there, so.

>>52580599
It's too expensive to ship overseas. I'd have to charge so much that the buyer might as well just by direct from FW.
If somewhere were willing to pay the shipping I suppose I'd be willing to ship elsewhere, I just don't see why anyone would bother.

>>52580582
I have another copy of each.

"2D6"

>>52580806
>If anything raising import tax is the simplest counter to outsourcing.

That's only good for making it harder to import, but making it easy for export (surely you want to increase export, that means more money coming into the country) would require making postage cheaper. Doesn't China support small businesses or something with postage? There's a fuckton of stuff you can buy from China for pennies and free shipping. I remember reading somewhere that's one way they do it.

>I guess you could separate corporate import tax and individual sale import tax but there'd be loopholes there, so.

I think we have something like that where I live. That if you're importing stuff to sell, you don't pay import tax (but do pay customs fees) but instead pay sales tax when you sell it.

I dunno, I've been thinking of an import business lately and came across that. Have to look more into it later.

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I don't know if this is old news or not, but I think I found the origins of Gahlan Surlak's name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galen

>famed surgeon
>medically treated gladiators

Are there any good/simple apothecary conversions for Catch shit? I was thinking apth shoulders and adding shit to a chainfist.

>>52581135
I gave mine GK terminator apothecary belt vials, put the lamp and scanner on the backpack (cut them from the mount that goes on the terminator's back and pinned them on there) and put a Scion medical device into a pistol hand.

>>52581053
>he doesn't automatically look up everyone's names immediately out of an intense autistic desire to understand all the references

get out now before it's too late

>>52579981
What if I added strategic studs and cables to make the legs look more like mkV?

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>go to lgs
>people playing 40k
>one player is actually using 30k
>they're playing 1000pts
>mfw

How does that even work?

>>52581502

I should clarify that I meant playing 30k at 1000pts, not playing 30k vs 40k

>>52581521
>>52581502
Zones Mortalis, but even then it'd be bare bones as fuck

>>52573487
What green are you Using?

>>52581562

It wasn't a ZM game, though. They were just playing normal 40k, and the guy wasn't using the ZM RoW. Makes me want to throw together a 1000pt PotL or something.

>>52581502
Pride of legion terminator bash? No HS or fliers maybe?

Are there any loyalist knight houses that would make sense to be on Terra during the Siege? My first thought was House Taranis evacuees from when Mars fell but it's been established that they were reduced to two knights who went into hiding.

>>52581775

That's kinda what I was thinking in my post above you, and since I'm NL, I can teleport to my heart's content. Either that, or a Terror assault with 3 cheap 5man Volkites, which leaves 550pts for other shit. Maybe an AC Mortis contempt with podding combi-melta vets?

>>52578861
>HQ's
A little extreme but I see why

>Coronus
Gunboats and quick travel with instant death is always good.

>Pallas
Aren't they great antitank?

>Jetbikes
Those aren't out yet

>Sagittarum
I mean whatever. A knight would be better

>Melta Spears
Aren't those ok?

>Dreadspear
Not a requirement but still nice

Here's a 1000pt Terror Assault for 40k then. Seems pretty straight forward, though my Dread is a heavy target for sure.

Praetor
Paragon Blade, Laser, Halo

Contemptor Mortis
Ass cannons
Extra Armor

Sniper Vets
Combi-Melta x5
AA+Chainglaive

Terror Squad x5
Volkite x5

Terror Squad x5
Volkite x5

Terror Squad x5
Volkite x5

>>52581961
Add a Drop Pod to the vets, my bad

>>52577089
If only they could kill Primarchs 1 vs 1.

Oh well, not until GW sells Custodes by the barrel and gives them a greatly expanded roster with all sorts of apocalypse tier weaponry (like if every single "normal" custodes had instant death and invul save cancelling buffs for Terra tier battles.)

>>52582062
>If only they could kill Primarchs 1 vs 1

They probably have super secret elite special units who can, but those ended up getting tossed into the webway to hold off Chaos.

>>52573180
What stats does he have that even the odds?

Is his special spear that good?

>>52582117
>They probably have super secret elite special units who can, but those ended up getting tossed into the webway to hold off Chaos.

Well those are the Tribunes.

Jesus I just realize that the lowliest Adeptus Custodes have the same toughness as a Daemon Prince.

>>52582168

>all the Tribunes and veteran Shield-Captains died in the Heresy
>the highest ranking officers in the Adeptus Custodes as of m42 are squad level captains who have only known military parades and guard duty for most of their lives

sad
at least they're getting out of the house now to level up

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How out of place would this look on MKIV armor? It doesn't have the vambrace, but I would like to have arms that don't cross the chest like 90% of the plastic MKIV. More of the arms the sgt uses would be fantastic, but they're obviously hard to come by.

>>52582308
They look fucking horrible. I've tried it. The Chaos Marine arms are old, so much so that they do not match up with modern marine bits. They're oversized, clunky, and just look like garbage when you try to mix them. The bolt pistols are, oddly, the worst offenders in this regard. You can sometimes get away with using chainswords and the like, but only if you use modern arms and just cut and glue the weapons.
But that does not work with the pistols.

>>52582344

Well, I'd be cutting the pistols off, so there's that.

What should I do about more straight MKIV arms?

>>52582371
The hands are significantly larger than modern marine hands. They still look really bad.

I'm not sure how else to get around it, other than getting really good with greenstuff and doing a cut/reposition job, and I'm actually in the same boat.