/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

First for all Tremere are virgins!

>>52561960
If my Bloodlines Tremere lady started out that way, it very quickly changed.

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Isn't getting a tattoo extra retarded if you're a vampire? You're stuck with it for conceivably forever unless you're friends with somebody with Vis

>>52561960
Yeah well Toreador men are cockaholics and Toreador women are pussy addicts - the fuckpires don't know SHIT about het relationships!

What's the best starting story to use to get new players (New to both WoD and tabletop gaming general) into the feel and atmosphere of VtM? It can be either something published or fan made.

>>52561984
It honestly doesn't make sense that vampires can even GET tattoos post-embrace. That they can is literally a contrivance for the sake of maintaining the modern goth-punk vampire image.

Anyone here wants to comment on DAV20´s Awe (Presence 1)? It looks very different from V20´s one.
It says:

>System: The player chooses what impression she wants to make. The impression should be simple, something that can be summed up in one or two words. Honest, competent, or dangerous are good examples.

Isn´t that a bit too powerful for a level 1 power? It´s way more flexible than standard Awe.
Cop stops you- just use Awe and project an "honest" impression.
Don´t want to fight some human bikers- just use Awe and project a "dangerous" impression.
Go to a bar and project a "Hot" impression to get sluts etc.

>>52562022
Well since it was already brought-up, I found playing the game VtM Bloodlines got me into the intended feel a whole lot better than my first game sessions. The level design makes the game totally unfun after some amount of time, but not until after you've had a period of getting *really into* the setting.

>>52561877
>What's the craziest thing that happened in game?

We built a space ship to travel to Titan because we couldn't find a sympathetic connection strong enough to teleport.

>>52562065
>The level design makes the game totally unfun after some amount of time, but not until after you've had a period of getting *really into* the setting.
I never had that problem. The sewers and endgame never really bothered me.

>>52562193
It is really bad. Much of the game is very railroady in one-option scenarios and forced combat, even though the diversity of character building and superior RP could have led to a game to surpass Deus Ex. It really could have been that, it had the framework to do it.

>>52562025
Maybe they're all posers and get temporary tattoos?

>>52562193
Nosferatu Warrens is like 2/3rds through the game, endgame is Chinatown missions and Ventrue Tower. Not the anon you were responding to, but imo Chinatown missions are kinda boring and tedious.

>>52562231
Vampire society is full of old people. If they see you changing tattoos all the time you'll get fingered as a Tzimisce or Lasombra and ashed. They don't have access to the dollar store in the 30th basement floor of their cathedral.

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Can a vampire be retarded? I mean literally retarded, not just a little 'slow'
>>52562254
Side missions are pretty good though.

>>52562361
1-Embrace retard human
2-??
3-Retard vampire!

>>52562402
My question was more oriented towards if such abomination would be allowed to exist within the Camarilla. I take for a fact that a Sabbath retard wouldn't last a day.

>>52562361
There's a retard Malk NPC in VtM 2nd ed iirc

>>52562361
Aren't side missions just "did you take locks and Computers" checks?

>>52562361
There's a whole clan for mental disability. They don't seem to exist anywhere outside of it. I don't know if that's ableist or not.

>>52562424
I can see this happening, specially among Malkavians and Nosferatu.
Gargoyles are not exactly bred for brains.

>>52562451
Hey leave the Tremere alone. They're doing their best.

>>52562466
What if giving UP the potential for world-changing power was the smartest thing they did, knowing their dumb asses couldn't be trusted with it?

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>>52561877
I had my first session as Mage 2e not too long ago, and so far I managed to blind a guy that's possessed by an Abyssal Spirit (or something) by making a pigeon attack it, but all it did was poop on his face.
Apparently that was enough to grab hold of him from a car window and have the Forces girl knock him out so hard with a hammer, his teeth flew into the air.

>>52562437
Hengeyokai and the two retired assasins were fun. And the Clan Quest Mod added the Trashing Dragon quest, that is fun too.

>>52562526
>Trashing Dragon quest
Please, tell me more about this.

Is this worth getting into?
Where should I start, and which "series" (or whatever you would call it) should I start with; I hear a lot of discussion on Vampire and Changeling, so is that a good first choice?

>>52562579
Changeling the Lost is very good.
V20 is good choice too.

>>52562579
>Is this worth getting into?

It can be. Like all tabletop games your enjoyment is mostly going to depend on your gaming group/GM.

>Where should I start, and which "series" (or whatever you would call it) should I start with; I hear a lot of discussion on Vampire and Changeling, so is that a good first choice?

Honestly, I'd do a small scale mortal story first. It's a good way to learn base mechanics (e.g. Chase, Social maneuvering, Stealth, Combat, Healing, etc.) without supernatural shenanigans complicating things.


Also masquerade sucks play requiem.

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>>52562579
Mage can be fun but I'd reserve it until you're familiar with other supernaturals to give you a scope of how crazy you can go with that kind of omnipotent power.
If you've never played a video game "Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodline" then do it. It's set in oWoD vampire universe and it's a great game by itself. Just be sure to download the unofficial patch first or else you'll be in a buggy, messy Hell.

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>>52562554
A Kuei-Jin approaches you and tells you that the cold war between your species shouldn't play an important role in your personal relationships with other kin.
She asks you about a good place to party, you can take her to the Asylum learn a little about Kuei-Jins and have a big vampire orgy with Jeanette (offscreen tho). Then she asks you to go for a drink, you have drain a couple of disco dancers IIRC. Finally you take her to the pier to have a big emotional moment in which she talks about her past life and gives you even more insight about the Kuei-jin process of becoming one. Right before you're about to tenderly hold her a couple of cammies start to shit talk her and you can choose whether to side with your vampire comrades or with your new friend, it's a good fight (as good as it can get with the mechanics), 2v2.

>>52562579
while I'm here, I might as well ask:
what exactly is each "series", and where can I learn more about them?

>>52562663
Sounds like a very nice quest.
Interesting how people are out there creating cool stuff while I´m here throwing my life away.

Hi tg! I'm going to be running my first Vampire game here soon and I thought "Wow, this is pretty okay. I need tg to shred my foolish dreams of adequacy!"
The setting is custom oWoD. Set in Philly in 2005, but "before" most major changes to the setting. This includes: Assimites still under the tremere curse, no red star, cammy malky's still use dominate, gangrel's still hang with the cammy, the tremere anti-tribu are still alive, that kinda stuff.
Themes: Anarchy, Secrets, Trust and Change.
Setting: Philly in the spring, 2005. The Ventrue prince has been so for over 250 years. Popular as a prince can get, his new strange behavior is mostly tolerated... But some want change!
Characters so far: a sabbat tremere, a yoked assimites on a suicide mission, a Tremere who believes her sire is being used by the prince.
Act structure: I am trying for a three act game. The first will be the build up of forces and plans to take down the prince, second act is a closed door mystery in the Prince's domicile, the third is the unexpected assault on the city by hunter forces after the head has been cut off.
Complications: The Prince has caught "Malkavia" and has truly gone mad. He is now obsessed with being "the perfect vampire prince", which has lead to some extreme measures for once a moderate leader.
That's the basics of it anyhow.

>>52562663
Too bad the Kuei-Jin kill you if side with them at the end of the game

>>52562685
There is the old/classic World of Darkness (WoD) and the new World of Darkness.
You get a bunch of series based on X supernatural. So, for example, you have oWoD and nWoD Mage. Same for Vampires and werewolves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Darkness

Honestly, just download Changeling the Lost (NOT the Dreaming) and V20 and you have a nice series from the new WoD and another from the oWoD.

>>52562803
I told you yellow fever was dangerous, anon.

BTW, why the fuck would anyone not side with the best clan, I mean, with the Camarilla?

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>>52562827
Because I'm an independent fledgling who don't need no elder.
Anarchs all the way, anon.

>>52562886
You just say that because your clan sucks, anon.

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>>52562932
Your clan pays for internet while I can make memes with all my clan friends just by thinking on it.
Who is the real loser now?

>>52562803
Ming Xiao sinks you, you're out of the sun and you'll outlast the chains. The next age would be yours if the world weren't ending.

>>52562989
>you'll outlast the chains
Unless Rokea find your torpid carcass first...

>>52562985
All of your memes suck.
Besides, your "internet" is just the inside of a crazy Ante´s ass.

>>52562254
>Chinatown missions are kinda boring and tedious.
>dat schoolgirl though

If you were a normal human in CofD/WoD, what splat would you hang out with? You have to choose one. You will not become one of them, ever. You'll be like Sokka, the obligatory normie.

I would have to go with Mage, because I think I would be less likely to come to harm with them.

>>52563346
I think the Mages would come to dislike you because you generate too much paradox. Changelings would probably be the safest splat to hang out with.

>>52563346
I hate this question.

I hate you for asking it.

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How the fuck are you supposed to handle fighting a vampire with Celerity as a Hunter in CoD? Who honestly thought that you should be able to grapple and bite in the same damn turn, or just instantly nullify an action because 'lul I disarm him before he even swings' with no Goddamn roll to resist?

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>>52563346
Kinfolk, my dude

>>52563522
Eventually the vampire has to run out of vitae, and he'll be burning a lot of it if he's using it for both Celerity and healing. You just have to survive those rounds.

Also, it's generally a good idea to take out a vampire in one round before they can use any of their tricks.

>>52563559
Yeah until some fomori decides to infect your liver with something creepy crawly. Now, when it comes down to it, Holman's are fucked in the WoD.

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I like the idea of the Pillar Men. One of my friends currently playing is a big ol' weeb and I'm sure he'd like the idea of seeing something similar to one of these guys.

From what I've seen of them, Kars is like some fucked up kind of Tzimisce/Gangrel Methuselah body horror. Esidisi strikes me as a Tremere or something.

They probably won't even physically appear themselves, I just really like the idea behind something ancient and awful laying torpid beneath the earth and that there are actually people stupid enough to want to wake up these very old and very hungry vampires, like they'll be somehow immune from their feeding frenzy.

>>52563522
Harpoon them from a truck and drag them.

>>52563622
>I just really like the idea behind something ancient and awful laying torpid beneath the earth and that there are actually people stupid enough to want to wake up these very old and very hungry vampires, like they'll be somehow immune from their feeding frenzy.
That doesn't sound too far from antediluvians.

>>52563622
>>52563665
Perfect Kars is antediluvian-tier or damn near close to it.

>>52563599
Is there any way to save or redeem a fomori?

>>52563522
Hunters aren't supposed to fight other templates.

I thought everyone knew this already?

>>52562025
Well, the books say that a regular tattoo wouldn't work so they have a special one which is more similar to scarification

>>52563421
You'd be a sleepwalker retainer obviously.

>>52563442
Why?

>>52563665
>>52563716
Week of Nightmare. Instead of Ravnos in India, Kars wakes up in South America. It doesn't end well for anybody.

>>52562989
Yeah sure you can take a torpot nap but then you'll wake up like 5 centuries later and the culture shock'll hit you

>>52563724
None at all and you'll lose renown for worrying about it.

>>52561877
Can you smoke weed in this game?

>>52563779
>Mages proceed to bomb Kars

Yep

>>52563790
There's an Assamite that smokes dank kush watered with blood in Mexico City by night

vampires can't smoke dope

stop lying to yourselves

>>52563779
>Kars wakes up in South America.
Don´t rape my continent, man!

>>52563779
>>52563884
Yeah, except nothing in Jojoverse is going to stand against a pissed off Union.

>>52562059
>>52562059
>>52562059

N-nobody?

>>52563802
>>52563884
Kars is practically an Antediluvian as above mentioned, meaning at least as powerful as archmages.

Stop overblowing things.

>>52563826
How does that work? Does he lace the strain with vitae / blood and dry it?

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>>52563835
Have some Dracula proving you wrong.

>>52563911
Nothing in jojo land causes paradox though which is the major benefit.

Especially with things like Za Warudo and King Crimson.

>>52563975
He literally just waters the plants with blood.

Anyone who was old enough to be playing during the events of 'Week of Nightmare' explain if people at the time thought it was cool?

Everything oWoD end time event summary I read ranges from awkward to fucking embarrassing.

>>52564007
No, people fucking hated it. It was Blood Treachery all over again but reversed 10x

>>52564007
Nah, I was far too young to have been involved but grognards I know and have played it say it was widely considered shit and caused some panic not only among Vamprie players but other splats as well of having the faction they're playing as Ravnos'd

>>52563975
Antediluvians are not the equivalents of Archmages. They're just not.

When you make stupid statements like these, you run the risk of derailing more threads.

>>52564007
>Epic duel between three Bodhisattvas and an Antediluvian which lasts for three bloody days
>Technocratic Union decides to go full Team America and nuke India for no fucking reason
>The day a third gen died to 5 dots of Forces and possibly even lower.

Yeah it was a hated supplement. Vampfags angry at how easily the mages took down an Ante, and Magefags angry at how autistic the book portrayed the Union.

>>52563346
Change lings all the way. Hell they might even like you

>>52564007
>>52564049
>>52564102
d-don't forget the wraiths! th-they helped! ;-;

>>52564102
The whole scenario is more like an episode of Dragonball Z. Not what I picture when I think ancient vampire.

White Wolf was only ever good at world building. They were piss ass vomit when it came to writing and even worse when the metaplot was involved.

Onyx Path learned from their mistakes. Sandbox is the only way to go.

>>52564102
>this meme again

Will magefags never tire of this?

Let's just say it wasn't just 5 dots of Force

>>52564270
This isn`t a meme you retard. Go read the fucking book.

>>52564270
Nah, it was 5 dots. You don't need Archspheres to kick super vampires in the nutsack.

>>52564295
Yes it is a meme you fucking mouthbreather.

Once a week I have to correct you mongs because you're too stupid to get it through your ugly, thick heads

>one of the weakest antes
>just woke up from a millennia long coma
>fought through half of Bangladesh, a sept of Garou, an army of Kuei Jin and Kindred and three bodhissatvas
>fought the aforementioned bodhissatvas for three days and nights without pause
>got spirit nuked, a weapon so strong it caused the avatar storm and helped bring along the sixth great maelstorm
>still had to beam the sun at him
>after all this still managed to curse his entire clan worldwide

degenerate magefags are sadly illiterate and can't get this though

>>52564403
>Yes it is a meme you fucking mouthbreather
Not the guy, but it's not a meme. 'Mage Supremacy!' is a meme, not the Week of Nightmares.

>Once a week I have to correct you mongs because you're too stupid to get it through your ugly, thick heads
Funny, because this has only been brought up 2-3 times over the last two months.
>got spirit nuked, a weapon so strong it caused the avatar storm and helped bring along the sixth great maelstrom

The spirit nukes weren't the sole cause of the Avatar Storm. You're mostly correct about the rest. It's also worth noting that they only deployed the bombs to deal with the three Methuselahs. They already intended to fry Zapathasura to a black crisp.

>degenerate magefags are sadly illiterate and can't get this though
They're not illiterate, they know exactly what's up. The effects used were of 5 dots precisely. There is even a Hermetic equivalent for the spirit nukes.

>>52564403
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>52564466
I know that the spirit nuke is 5 dots, but it's disingenuous that it's all that it took or that that's all it takes to kill an ante.

It's the same as suffocating a comatose 5 year old then claiming the same trick would work on Mike Tyson

>>52564488
>mommy chad made fun of my autistic power fantasies again!
>I'll turn him into a lawnchair!

>>52564502
5 dots in select Spheres can already mimic 6-9 dot Disciplines. It's only by getting into 10 dot Disciplines (as referred to in Gehenna) that they can't hold a flame to it.

But then you have the Archspheres, in which case 7 Forces can already mimic 10 dots in Protean, or alter the entire universe using 7 Entropy, etc.

They're not intended to have the same power curves. Brucato even acknowledged this and he loathes the Archspheres to begin with.

>>52564544
Again, I'm not disputing that mages are usually more powerful than vamps, just that it wasn't just the 5 dot power that took Ravnos out

Can we stop having this same argument every thread.

>>52564619
But it was. It's not hard to determine what took him down when you have the magic-system in Ascension to go by. Nukes are explicitly 5 dots.

It's different in Awakening, where nuclear strikes require 6 dots in Archmastery.

>>52564628
No, we have to circlejerk until the flesh is raw and bruised.

>>52564628
Can you convince the vampfags to stop being complete downeys?

What? You can't? You don't say?

This conversation only happens when Masqueraders struggle to deal with the obvious.

>>52564655
It wasn't even the nukes that killed him, it was sunlight. Not even satellite enhanced sunlight is above 5 dots.

>>52564655
The nuke didn't kill him, they still had to beam sunlight onto him.

And just using the spirit nuke contributed to the biggest fuck up in mage history

>>52564774
>And just using the spirit nuke contributed to the biggest fuck up in mage history

You can blame the writers for that. The entire solution made absolutely no sense, whatsoever. Ravnos has no Correspondence wards, they could have beamed him into the core of the Sun if they wanted to.

But nope. Replace the opening scene of Team America with India instead of Parais, and vampires instead of terrorists, and you got an idea of what happened.

That or Dragon Ball Z.

>>52564102
>>52564803

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zbjGUmI4Js

You guys really hate the Week of Nightmares.

Are there any other books in the oWoD that are complete crap?

>>52564925
Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand

>>52564925
Gypsies is widely regarded as one of the worst OWoD books, although I haven't read it myself

>>52562220
Not every game has to be deus ex, there's nothing wrong with having no choice but to fight every now and again.

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I don't think these threads are ever going to change.

>>52564925
Kindred of the East gives Asia its own special snowflake afterlife.

Children of Gaia tribebooks for being proto-SJW yiff-fests.

Hollow Ones for being a forerunner of all the negative aspects of M20.

Do other arcana function in twilight? e.g. could you teleport between locations in spirit twilight or use forces to fly?

>>52564925
Masters of the Art is complete and utter fucking SHIT

It gave us these masturbatory wank discussions over who has the biggest schlong.

>>52565127
And Gehenna isn't? Jesus, vampfags are at least as bad as the magefags when it comes to wankery. They always start shit.

>>52561298

Tried reading American Vampire. Couldn't stick with it. Pearl Jones is one of the most unlikeable characters I've ever read.

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Which Clan/Bloodline would fit Strahd best?

>>52565556
Ventrue or Tremere.

He lords over his lessers but is also a powerful necromancy specialized wizard.

>>52565556

>>52565593
I meant to say Giovanni, but he isn't exclusively limited to necromancy either.

>>52562460
Depends on the form of retardation for Malks. Gotta remember that the clan values the insane, not the mentally crippled. Functional Autism might make the cut, but an inability to learn wouldn't

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So, the benediction called The Preservation of the Chastity of St. Agnes of Rome found in Compacts and Conspiracies. It reflexively gives you armor right before death. Is this armor in addition to the armor you wear, or just flat out swaps your armor to that. Because going up to 5/5 armor from riot armor doesn't seem like a huge jump to me.

>>52565630
They're called Gnawed. A Malk wouldn't intentionally embrace a for real imbecile except to manufacture one or see what happens.

How well does Boston unveiled or other supplements hold up in 2e? I need some NPCs and antagonists for my next chapter.

>>52565754
Let's be real
When the fuck are you going to be wearing Riot Armor?

>>52565754
I'd imagine it stacks with normal armor.

>>52566151
When it's time for me to put down rioting "youths" since our campaign is set in Detroit.

>>52566160
If that's the way it works then suddenly I know what Benediction I'm getting next. I hope I never have to use it, but if I do it'd be a cool ace in the hole.

>>52565754
>>52566200
Honestly, ask your ST.
It's magic, so logically, it should stack, but it's up to your ST to decide that.

If you were wearing a kevlar vest (1/3 torso) under some motorcycle leathers (1/0 torso legs arms).

What's the armor for a normal attack? 2/3 1/0 1/3?

What about a called attack to the arms? 1/0?

>>52565127
Vampire players are the ones who WANT the dick measuring contest, they have an entire sect about Vampire fight club where everyone's constantly eating each other, and everyone in the entire vampire world's supposed to be *barely* held in check by threat of the others, between sects, within sects, between clans, within clans, between families, within families - everywhere - while they hang out and have dinners together on-edge. It's a dickwave game concept with heavier PVP emphasis than any other. Vampire players by nature of their game and what attracts them to it want to compare dicks.

The fact that Mage exists (which can include dick-measuring but is mostly about collaborative problem solving and finding bizarre solutions) at least lets these discussions end EARLY. A halfway-balanced WoD would just let these schoolyard DBZ arguments last fucking forever. Vampire and werewolf fans already have this bullshit made-up rivalry that popular culture loves to force; do you really want to find out how bad it can get with nobody to shut them up?

>>52565556
Old Clan Tzimisce doy

>>52565556
What's he do? What's he about?

>>52566341
I'm not sure, but I want to say that you take the best of each armor type of whatever you're wearing on that limb. (1/0 for legs and arms, 1/3 for torso)

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>>52564925
Honestly it's all complete crap but people really need to just learn to enjoy things for what they are instead of pretending pulp fiction is anything other than entertainment

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>>52563961
I wish I could help but I only really understand disciplines in terms of inferior/superior

>>52566341
>>52566423
What's the armor for a normal attack?

1/3

What about a called attack to the arms?

1/0

Mundane armors don't stack you take the highest effect. Supernatural effects can provided they do different things.

So you can get into a grubby mage circle jerk and give someone a magically enhanced wet-suit with 5/5 immune to armor-piercing. With a similar Life ••• spell that gives them 5/5 and makes them look like an eldritch abomination. And then you can activate Mage armor on top of that.

If that sounds like overpowered bullshit, which it is, however let me remind you of the Forces •• shielding trick. Or you could be walking around in full gothic plate made of siderite and perfected leather which could protect you unharmed from anti-tank rounds.

>>52566665
Thanks anyway, man. To me, they sound like two very different powers. DAV20 Presence 1 just feels too OP.

>>52563660
You mean Carpoon them?

If you had to pick one city (or region) for each of the splats, which cities and regions would you pick?
Medium mode: no default cities (New Orleans, Boston, etc)
Hard mode: no cities in the US or Western Europe

My picks:
Vampire: Alexandria
Werewolf: Mongolia
Mage: Istanbul
Changeling: Lahore
Promethean: Former USSR
Hunter: Dar Es Salaam
Geist: Mexico City
Mummy: Dubai
Demon: Hong Kong

>>52566766
Vampire: Stockholm
Werewolf: Helsinki
Mage: Moscow
Changeling: Prague
Promethean: Kaliningrad
Geist nad Hunter: Dunno
Mummy: Teheran
Demon: New Delhi

>>52566824
>Mummy: Teheran
At least the mummies can come back after being in traffic accidents every other day.

>>52564925
It would literally be quicker to name oWoD books that aren't complete crap.

>>52566406
How new...

>>52566841
Well this is good if you stole one of relics and you are running from the mummy. You can at least hope cars will keep crashing into it as it's rampaging through the city

>>52566864
I think you misunderstood me. The mummies are not the problem, Teheran drivers are.

>>52566882
I know. That is why I imagined mummy getting hit by cars from unexpected angles

Also
>Driver Supremacy

>>52566849
Because everyone has encyclopedic knowledge of ~30 year old aD&D modules.

>>52566907
I'd play it.

>>52566912
Have you been under a rock or is this bait?

>>52566922
Just go to Teheran and pretend the Mullahs are running after you.

>>52566766
Vampire: Cancun, Mexico
Werewolf: New Delhi, India
Mage: Kampala, Uganda
Changeling: Baghdad, Iraq (because there needs to be more Djinn inspiration in Changeling)
Promethean: Papua New Guinea, because you are gonna need the whole thing
Hunter: Longreach, Australia
Geist: Cairo, Egypt
Mummy: Beijin, China because fuck placing them in anywhere that makes sense with egyptian myth
Demon: Ankara, Turkey

>>52566922
>McReedy was the fastest caster in a Consillium but when he and his partner have to travel to Iran in pursuit of their quarry they discover they undestimaged threat posed by....
>TEHERAN DRIVERS

>>52566766
Vampire: Omsk, Russia
Werewolf: Berlin
Mage: Tokyo or Seoul
Changeling: Vienna
Promethean: Pyongyang
Hunter: Australia
Geist: Rio de Janeiro
Mummy: Peru
Demon: Athens

>>52566766
Vampire: Sao Paulo, Brazil (fuck you, I want some shaddy Camarilla politics in my hometown)
Werewolf: dunno
Mage: Istanbul
Changeling: Turin, Italy
Promethean: Shezhen, China
Hunter: Paris
Geist: dunno
Mummy: somewhere in Ethiopia
Demon: Moscow

Has Cursed Necropolis: Rio been shared?

>>52567045
>Promethean: Shenzhen, China

fixed

>>52565078
>Hollow Ones for being a forerunner of all the negative aspects of M20.

How so? Sidebar cancer? More virtue signaling crammed into author tracts? Shit tier editing?

So sell me your Owod/CofD faction in a song or a movie.

I won't lie. This is how I Carthian Movement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80X0pbCV_t4

>>52567474
Vampire Police State is best Carthian Experiment.

>>52566345
>vampirefags are responsible
Now, mind you, they have been more antagonistic in the last 2-3 threads, BUT

Literally 10 or more threads before that consisted of an hour or two of discussion before MAGESUPREMACY LOLFAGSGETOUT horseshit drowning out everything else.

This was not provoked. This was not asked for. It was just an endless barrage of garbage. When there WAS provocation, it was a minor comment or insult that immediately provoked multiple threads of shittery.

Magefags are often right- but they are still the most garbage splatfags. Though the vampfags are trying to claim that title recently.

Masters of the Art isn't necessarily bad- but the fans absolutely are.

>>52566824
>stockholm
But Stockholm is fucking tiny. Around 1 million people. According to the "official" population numbers of 1 vamp per 100,000 people, that's literally 10 vampires. That's not a court- that's one elder and his minions. Even doubling that at 1:50,000 is still only 20 vamps- so 2 elders and their retinues.

>>52567548
That's because it's not vampfags posting anymore. It's just mages false flagging so they can continue wanking into the ether

>>52567574
I could be willing to believe this, given how dogged the baiting by "vampfags" has been.

I don't believe it, but I'd be willing to.

>>52567574
>Here we have a good example of a vampfag succumbing to paranoia

>>52562059
>>52563961
It's broad but weak in effect. An impression means nothing.
The bikers could decide you are not worth the trouble. They might also decide to call 10 other biker friends and houd you for the rest of the night.
The cop might think you are more honest than most, that won't stop him from questioning you if he has a good reason to or if hes thorough in his job.
It might give you a bonus to some rolls, and work as you intend to most of the time if the ST isn't out to get you specifically, but you have to use it when it makes sense and it's ultimately unreliable.

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>>52567474
Literally the same song could be used for oWoD anarchs so I'll just post a movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9f9M6UAYb0

>>52567571
Anarch city with 10 vampire buddies sounds pretty comfy.

>>52566824
>Mage: Moscow

I find this REALLY fitting somehow.

>>52563522
You can't. Multiple actions trump everything in oWoD.
>>52563731
Explain further? I've never read Hunter, does the book use some watered down version for the supernatural splats in the Antagonist section?
Would make sense, I don't know their tricks but I have a feeling there's no way a Hunter would last one round against a Werewolf built and played with W:tA rules

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>>52562059
>Anyone here wants to comment on DAV20´s Awe (Presence 1)? It looks very different from V20´s one.

>Isn´t that a bit too powerful for a level 1 power? It´s way more flexible than standard Awe.
>Cop stops you- just use Awe and project an "honest" impression.
>Don´t want to fight some human bikers- just use Awe and project a "dangerous" impression.
>Go to a bar and project a "Hot" impression to get sluts etc.

Well, it still seems largely the same... just because the vampire projects an impression doesn't mean it'll work out the way she intended.

Sure, projecting "Awe" on a gang of bikers by making yourself look dangerous might work out if the bikers are all a bunch of pussies looking for an easy mark to beat up for money, but if they are actually just eager for a fight, making yourself look dangerous could just make them *more* inclined to fight you if they're that sort of risk-takers.

And, if a cop stops you and you make yourself seem "honest", that isn't necessarily going to stop the cop from writing you a ticket or arresting you for going fifty miles past the speed limit. It *could* be what makes him decide that you just made an "honest mistake" and that you aren't an asshole in need of a beat-down, and so on.

The wording is weird in DA:20, and could definitely be better, but it's still not a "you do anything I say because I look totally trustworthy now"-button.

That's what Entrancement and Majesty are for.

>>52567548
Provoking magefags always comes across as SJW mongering to me. When anons believe (or want to believe) that no Template is above another because "equality", various other anons are going to be annoyed.
And in all actuality, why should vampires, werewolves and fairies be stronger than wizards, demons and mummies?

Magefags are bothersome, yes I can agree on that. They are far from incorrect in their assessments however. They were always meant to be above the rest. You can't dispute this.

>>52567571
True but this is Europe and I tend to assume Court would encompas larger region then single city as long as it is plausible.

For example I live in Warsaw(2 million so 20 vamps using 100 000:1). However within 1-2 hour drive there is number of middle sized cities that could support population of another 20 vamps that would probably report to the largest city in region. I do think 1:100 000 is a bit low thou

>>52567623
I can't argue. It does mean there's a bit of lack in both conflict and scale. I mean, "fighting for control of the city" sounds impressive, until you find out the only battle was a knife fight behind an abandoned convenience store between a biker and a hippy, and the winner didn't really get anything but bragging rights to his 8 friends.

That's actually a problem I have with vampire in general. There's this idea that world spanning vampiric conspiracies rule the world- but even the mightier Domains consist of only a hundred or maybe 200 vampires, and they usually don't actually have anywhere near as much influence as one would expect. Yeah, they can cover up the occasional murder or hide some blood draining, but the CEO of Times Warner has more power than any five Elder Vampires combined. They really don't seem to have half as much influence as the game implies.

Also, this is more a general complaint, but I feel vampires should be stronger. The idea that the average vampire can get the shit kicked out of him by a thug is absurd to me. I kinda feel every vampire should get an automatic dot in Potence, Celerity, and Fortitude.

>>52567678
And I don't! I at least don't really have an issue with mages being powerful- though I definitely don't think they should be used for crossovers for this reason- and personally in my games mages in non-mage games are usually nonexistent or much weaker- more like sorcerers. But that's a taste thing. In a mage game their power is really freeing.

But I also like threads that aren't masturbation over how much more powerful a single group is, and how there's no chance of ever being beaten by anyone else, hurr hurr silly vampfag. Sure, be stronger. Magefags usually win those arguments. But does it really need to stretch out over 3 fucking threads every goddamn time someone spits out a wrong opinion?

Not to mention the utterly cancerous mage supremacy meme. That's a separate and awful issue. Being mad at people being wrong is a 4chan classic, even if magefags take it too far (or rather, too long)- but they provoke the fights just as often. Nothing like having a discussion about the strength of a mythical antedeluvian being interrupted with a taunt about how a master could beat him with a single spell, so how dangerous could he be, the Union would just destroy him immediately kekekekke. Holy fuck magefags- you want your cake, that's fine, enjoy it- but let other people have their cakes too. You don't need to jam your dick in ours and start jizzing about how much better yours is for having Obrimos buttercream filling.

>>52567745
note- there has been baiting recently, and that shit is equally cancerous. I don't blame magefags for that much, and the garbage has not been as bad recently.

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>>52567694
>but the CEO of Times Warner has more power than any five Elder Vampires combined
From my point of view all CEOs are vampires or have vampire allies without knowing it.
>The idea that the average vampire can get the shit kicked out of him by a thug is absurd to me. I kinda feel every vampire should get an automatic dot in Potence, Celerity, and Fortitude.
Nah, vampires are fine as they are because their thing is about social over physical dominance. You can even get this from its origins, when vampires were fallen aristocrats.

What's the approximate populations for the various splats?

I'd say prometheans and mummies would be the rarest. Followed by mages and demons. After that I'm not so sure.

>>52567775
Geists are quite rare I think

>>52567694
>Also, this is more a general complaint, but I feel vampires should be stronger. The idea that the average vampire can get the shit kicked out of him by a thug is absurd to me. I kinda feel every vampire should get an automatic dot in Potence, Celerity, and Fortitude.

Vampires in mythology have traditionally worked and manipulated from the shadows. While their powers are great so are their weaknesses. Remember Dracula got his shit pushed in by a couple of pissed off middle aged dudes armed with torches, clubs, knives, and a revolver they had to share.

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>>52567474

Anarchs, with "The Resistance", by Skillet. It's super-fitting, at least when the Anarchs actually go into the "violent uprising" phase.

>They can take my heart, they can take my breath
>When they pry it from my cold, dead chest

>This is how we rise up
>Heavy as a hurricane, louder than a freight train
>This is how we rise up
>Heart is beating faster, feels like thunder
>Magic, static, call me a fanatic
>It's our world, they can never have it
>This is how we rise up
>It's our resistance
>YOU CAN'T RESIST US

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP_uUkBfCM4

Is Onyx Path deliberately trying to ruin Scion? Do they stand to gain something from it?

>>52567825
Also I don't know about VtM but in VtR sceond ed you would be really hard pressed to lose against thug(unless your character has 0 combat skills but then again you just flash your beast at him then to scare him away)

Also in regard to vamps and influence. This is wod/cofd so unless ceo/politician works for other group of supers he is sitting in vampires pocket.

>>52567828
I sometimes put on more serious tone for the Carthians with things like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYb9sRLUDyM

>>52567571
>According to the "official" population numbers of 1 vamp per 100,000 people, that's literally 10 vampires.

Except the numbers are often much higher in actual *cities*, because that's where like 90% of all vamps hang out. While there are maybe only 70,000-ish vampires in existence, nearly all of them congregate in the cities, ESPECIALLY the big cities.

Vampires aren't spread out all over the globe like humans are. Aside from the Gangrel and their offshoots, they don't stay in the open countryside, or even in the smaller towns (at least not for long).

So while the 1:100,000 figure is correct, you gotta keep in mind that it doesn't mean a city with 1 million inhabitants is only going to have 10 vampires... though, many paranoid (or overly controlling) Princes might enforce a limit on how many vampires can exist in the city at any time... either because they fear the Masquerade going "poof", or because they want to feel like they can control every aspect of their city (which becomes harder with more vamps are living there).

So yeah, don't feel like you *have* to obey the 1:100,000 rule when it comes to numbers for a single city.

Heck, in the lore, there's the island of Utgard/Utgård, a desolate island in northern Norway, where 45-plus vampires (though many remain in torpor, especially during the summers when the sun almost never goes down) subsist on a population of around 300 humans (and their livestock).

The humans there remain ignorant of the modern world, and believe that Ragnarok has come and gone, and that only their island has survived into the current day.

>>52568039
>While there are maybe only 70,000-ish vampires in existence

The Masquerade as we know it wouldn't conceivably exist if there were that many Kindred.

>>52568176
While I mostly ignore masquarade in my games 70 000 isn't that many people especialy as spread out as vampires are.

>>52568211
To keep something as big as Vampirism a secret? Yeah, 70,000 is a TON.

>>52568223
Not all are even awake. A good portion of that number are in torpor.

Hel needed. I'm playing in V:TM chronicle. The game's really good, but it's pretty obvious that our Storyteller likes vampires. Like A LOT. By that I mean, that there's a Brujah NPC who can beat up a pack of werewolves regulary and does it quite often. Because he can.

Now, we've discussed this and he admitted that he made him into a powerbuild, where the guy has 14 strength, before he begins to burn blood. He also states that even in Crinos, Werewolves can have max strength of 12.

I don't buy that. I mean, Werewolves are powerhouses, warriors of Gaia, who are so deadly that most things in the World of Darkness outright avoids them, Vampires included. For some reason the Kindred stick to their cities and avoid direct confrontation. Of course, it's his game and I respect that, not to mention really like his style, but we do talk about it and I'd like to show him, why exactly the Fera are at the top of the food chain in this world.

I want to make the biggest, nastiest, downright cruel Werewolf power build in history. However it was some time, since I've last read and played W:TA and I've never used additional material for that game. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Is there some kind of population ratio for vampires and humans living in the same city?

>>52568301
Your ST is so wrong that it hurts. A pack of vampires would hardly succeed beating up a single werewolf.
Tell him I hope he steps on a lego

>>52568301
>those strength values
Are you sure you aren't mistaking raw damage for strength?

Twinking a werewolf for white room combat is easy, especially if we are talking starting characters, to each his own book. Ahroun and 5 freebies in Rage give you integrated Celerity - you can partition it or explode in a total of 12 actions in 2 rounds. Max Dex and Str and don't worry about Stamina; you have a base +3 and can soak agg, which a vamp can only do with body armor and Fortitude, and if he's dipping into Fortitude he has less Celerity. Round it out with a Klaive or Grand Klaive and you are set; tribe, breed and even Gifts are irrelevant, though just to be sure you might want to choose a Tribe with access to Resist Pain.

The best thing about this? If you build a lupine according to the rules found in the V:tM antagonist chapter, they are actually worse than that, since they double their Dex instead of getting a flat +1. A vamp running around soloing werewolves is just stupid.

>>52568489
Well he didn't give us any details on the Brujah in question.

Hang on, did I miss something in all the fluff or can vampires embrace whenever they feel like it in Requiem, rather than having to ask the local ruler-figure for permission?

>>52568560
This depands on rulership of the city in question and what Covenant is on top. You can't embrace willy nilly most of the time

>>52568579
>You can't embrace willy nilly most of the time
Also it costs Willpower dots.

>>52568579

I imagine the Invictus would be the one most like the Camarilla in VtM, i.e. have to approach the top figures to ask for permission. Ordo Dracul doesn't seem like they'd give a fuck, unless you were tampering with one of their studies/experiments. No idea what the Crone or Carthians would be like about embracing on their territory.

>>52568601

Doesn't it also cost you humanity?

>>52568606
>Doesn't it also cost you humanity?
Well yeah. But I thought it more poignant to mention how it hits you in the purse.

>>52568223
I don't know, you have to consider vampires made it their business to remain secretive ever since the Masquerade was enacted. Vampires would be the least of my worries for exposing the supernatural to humanity with everything else that skulks in the dark, though.

>>52568621
I think it only costs Humanity in 2e.

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>>52567677
I think the problem is a lot of people have a very gamey way of thinking about such things. They don't really consider context and see Disciplines like such as an I-WIN button. Only Dominate can really be treated as such, but it's also invasive as fuck in comparison as opposed to merely altering someone's disposition towards you.

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>>52568665
>mfw werewolves don't have a taboo with fucking and procreating with other werewolves anymore in Forsaken 2E

I don't know if Unihar got cut entirely, but furries rejoice.

>>52568695
To be fair, that concept was always completely idiotic and existed solely for the purpose of unnecessary angst.

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>>52568223
>Yeah, 70,000 is a TON.

It really isn't, when you think about it.

I mean, 70,000 vampires aren't even enough to fill up some of the bigger sport stadiums.

It sounds like a big number on paper, but you gotta take into account how spread out they are, and just how big and sprawling the cities are in the WoD-verse.

Remember, there are far more sprawling urban areas and cities in WoD than in the real world; it's part of the reason why the vamps can live in (relative) comfort and anonymity, and why so many of the werewolves feel like they've already lost the whole "nature vs humanity" battle.

>>52568683
I find that humorous, because in my opinion disciplines are kinda weak. Potentially very nasty, but weak.

Like, lemme use Necromancy as an example. If a starting character dumps all his dots into necromancy, Sepulchre path, he can
1. See the dead, but they can tell he can see and might get pissed
2. Summon ghosts, under specific conditions, if the person he's summoning has a ghost, if he can get something valuable of theirs.
3. Force a ghost to do stuff for him, except the ghosts can delay the task, and how dangerous and how many tasks he can make the ghost do vary depending on successes, on a contested roll. A roll he can bias by getting stuff like items of spiritual value to the ghost, or a piece of their body, but still.

And this means he's got no other special abilities- if he gets attacked, he's just a moderately fast healing walking corpse, no more dangerous than a mortal otherwise. And he's socially pretty helpless compared to a Presence or Dominate focused vampire- unless he can leverage ghosts into secrets. Oh, and he's got no way to prevent the ghosts from trying to murder him. Only powerful ghosts can really attack him beyond throwing stuff at him, but, well- A. this means if he wants dangerous ghosts to do stuff for him, he really, really can't afford to piss them off unless he enslaves them and keeps them that way all the time, and b. if he pisses off a ghost he risks it fucking with him while he can't fight back, like in public. Hope he's never somewhere where a sudden push is dangerous, like high up, or in a moving car. And again, no way to harm or threaten them beyond making them do dangerous stuff, IF he gets enough successes to do that.

Let's say this guy, a Giovanni, instead puts all his dots in Potence. He's now pretty dangerous- he casually has +3 strength, and 3 automatic damage instead if he spends a blood point- theoretically +3 str is a lot, but practically 3 more dice isn't insane- especially since its limited application.

>>52568756
Disciplines are handy- but honestly speaking a vampire is pretty weak until he's an Ancillae at least. It's not hard to see why elders tend to view Neonates and Fledglings as disposable- they are! Your average Giovanni is work only slightly more than a guard or ghoul- and unlike those he's potential competition. The only thing that makes him useful is that 100 years from now he'll be actually dangerous and might owe you, and he's already inside the masquerade, so you can trust him more than a guard or ghoul.

The most dangerous neonate is probably either a presence, dominate, or obfuscate focused vampire, for social and intrigue matters, and a Gangrel with high brawl and dodge, Protean 2, Celerity 1, and Fortitude 2 (freebie points). Aggravated damage (heals incredibly slowly), hits fast, and is tough. That or a Brujah with the skill to consistently headshot, a SMG, and Celerity 3.

Even then, Vampires just... aren't that powerful. It honestly disappoints me sometimes.

>>52568788
This is probably why vampires have been buffed in 2e Requiem.

>>52568797
How so? I know 1e somewhat, but not 2e.

>>52568800
More resistant to damage (now, even damage from swords and the like is degraded), usually more able to resist sunlight, Disciplines have all been buffed...

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>>52568788
I think you're right, but you're also looking at power from just a "what they can do in combat" angle. Vampires are first and foremost social predators who entrench themselves in cities and can fuck you up in dozen ways the moment they know you're in their domain without lifting a finger directly. It's the kind of logistical warfare you can't really fight conventionally unless you flush them out of their zone of influences somehow.

>>52568800
Disciplines are all buffed. 1ed celerity adds to your initiative 2ed jumps you to the top right away or interrupt someones action for example. Also you get bashing from everything that isn't Bane(fire, sunlight). Everyone gets some additional tricks with beast that can cause humans to cover before you or be more susceptible to your influence

>>52568729
It's a bit more nuanced than that. It existed as an excuse to keep werewolves anchored in the realms of both men and wolves.
Remove the Metis thing and all of a suden you realize there's no reason Garou should have Kinfolk, or shouldn't have exterminated humanity utterly during the Impergium.
If you don't like Metis as a concept I think Garou should still not br able to reproduce among themselves.
Though I gotta ask, if you don't like unnecessary angst what the fuck are you doing in a WoD thread?

>>52568849
That's true, I'm definitely looking at this from an aggression based view, but honestly it kinda applies to social stuff too. Disciplines are REALLY specific- very few of them are capable of broad use. Even from a social point of view, for example, Necromancy is useful as an investigative tool- it's useless for actually talking to someone. Noooot to mention the vast chance of being murdered by ghosts if you play it the way the Giovanni do. Honestly no idea how they've avoided having all their property burned down by ghosts, given that the stronger ghosts have an equivalent of the Lure of Fire thaumaturgical path.

They're too specific. It's kinda cool, since it encourages creative application, but it is also very limiting. Especially given how expensive Disciplines are, XP-wise.

Also, the main book isn't explicit about how much knowledge people have about discipline abilities. The Clan books were what made me realize this- in it, basically anyone who doesn't know a discipline is ignorant of the powers- Demention use by a prince catches a lot of characters TOTALLY off guard- even a Methuseleh (though the methuselahs in the scene I'm thinking of are pretty meh- two 2000+ year old vampires, one a Roman gladiator Brujah, the other a Malkavian, originally a soldier in the battle of Thermopylae, and the first winds up Diablerized and the second eventually runs away. It was, to be fair, a major assault by a bunch of Sabbat, including a ton of War Ghouls, but come on, a multi-millenia old Brujah should do better than a 150 year old Confederate Malkavian (who escaped after fighting about as well in the book).

Anyway, point is, I think the Disciplines are definitely cooler if folks don't know what their powers are- and I think most players aren't going to know that their characters would be ignorant of what is just charisma and what is a Toreador using Presence 2: Dread Gaze without more info, or the ability of a Malkavian to swell emotion.

>>52568788
Vampires were never intended as urban superheroes.
You can still shit all over mortals (unless they bring fire) but it's gonna cost you blood. That's the way it should be.

>>52568970
That halfway made sense in Apocalypse... but the unihar thing in Forsaken, like most of Forsaken, was utter nonsense.

I also think there was plenty of angst in Apocalypse, with the world under heavy attack from the god of evil and the psycho god of order, without FURBITTEN LOVE being added.

>>52568992
Oh definitely, it's just that most vampires can't shit all over mortals except in very specific circumstances. And not even then.

Like, take a Giovanni. If he's invested in Potence, he's no more useful in a board room than any old mortal. If he's invested in Dominance, then he's gonna be pretty pants at defending himself, though the intimidation factor could be useful. And if he's invested in Necromancy, well, he's bad at both but amazing at information gathering and being burnt alive by angry ghosts. Seriously, given that strong ghosts have Lure of Fire, I have NO idea how the Giovanni haven't had all their mansions burnt down. All it would take is ONE strong ghost.

Ahem. Anyway, this is very much a personal complaint. I just think vampires should either start with more disciplines, or have a game start as Ancillae. Actually get some well spread out powers, not just be a one hit wonder.

Huh. So yeah, my issue is less that vamps are weak, apparently, and more that they're a little too focused. A lot of this might stem from the fact that my favorite disciplines are Blood Magic- the path system of which means you need to invest a TON of dots to get any flexibility at all. Like Necromancy. You can do amazing, fascinating stuff, but if you want any flexibility OR power you need to SERIOUSLY invest those points. Which means all other disciplines fall by the wayside, which means that you wind up pretty goddamn vulnerable. Especially with necromancy. Take Ash 3- you can physically interact with the spirit world- downside, spirits can interact with you, and as a necromancer you are almost certainly squishy as fuuuuck. Meanwhile ghosts, judging by their statline, are a bunch of bodybuilders with magic powers.

>>52569092
>Seriously, given that strong ghosts have Lure of Fire, I have NO idea how the Giovanni haven't had all their mansions burnt down. All it would take is ONE strong ghost.
Necromantic rituals. Keep in mind that Paths aren't the only thing you can use with blood magic. Heck, the Tremere have a pretty low-level ritual that blocks sunlight from entering one's haven.

>>52569092
This might be a stupid question but what benefits do you get in VtM for being a vampire?

>>52569141
Bullets are reduced to bashing damage.
Bashing damage is halved.
You can spend blood points at a 1:1 ratio to heal bashing or lethal damage.
You can spend blood points at a 5:1 ration, 1 per night, to heal aggravated damage, which mortals can't do.
You can spend a blood point to boost an attribute by 1.
You get disciplines.
You can spend a blood point to look more alive.
Immortality.
If you feed mortals your blood 3 times, they become devoted to you, and any fed blood turns them into ghouls, who automatically have Potence 1 and can be taught disciplines.
That's... basically it. Plus all the weaknesses.

>>52569141
Immortality unless killed, for a start.
Bullets deal bashing damage unless it's a headshot and you halve all bashing post soak and rounding down.
Your own blood can make people fall in love/lust/obsession with you and can give immortality and increased strength to humans. Your bite also gives them (and you) a more potent sensation than orgasm. And it leaves no puncture wounds!
You can use the blod you fed on to regenerate and to raise your Str, Dex and Sta for a scene. The higher your Generaton background the more you can store in reserve and spend in a turn.
You get nifty supernatural powers called Disciplines which can do anything from being even more of a tough bastard to vaguely snake-related powers to being able t sculpt bone and flesh into things that'd make Carpenter piss himself.

>>52569124
I guess. The necromantic rituals are even MORE highly niche then the disciplines though. And you can only start with 1 level 1 ritual at chargen, regardless of how many dots you have. And there really aren't enough of them. Seriously, I'd love a book filled with Blood Magic rituals.

Upside, you don't need to spend xp to learn them- downside, it's not clean what it DOES take to learn them, so you gotta hope your GM is friendly.

>>52569242
Not him. But what are the drawbacks?

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>>52569141
>>52569275
Are you serious? You in the wrong thread, nigga.

>>52569141
>This might be a stupid question but what benefits do you get in VtM for being a vampire?

Well, first of all, you get the benefit of being able to soak both bashing damage and lethal damage. In addition, bullets only inflict bashing damage to vampires (unless the head is targeted, in which case it becomes lethal).

Regular vampires can also heal these wounds immediately by spending a blood point: one blood point spent heals one level of bashing and/or lethal damage. Thinbloods of 15th generation have to pay double blood costs to heal damage in this way.

Vampires also have no need of breathing, nor will they die of hypothermia... some vampires of the "Gangrel Mariner" bloodline even spend nearly their entire unlives in the sea, feeding on fishermen, dockworkers, night-time swimmers, dolphins, whales and so on.

Undead also do not feel tired or become exhausted, unless they are trying to function during the day or if they lose all Willpower points. Meaning that it's usually impossible to *outrun* a vampire if you're a mortal, because they won't tire. It is possible to run FASTER than a vampire which means you can get out of their sight and try to hide, or just dodge, duck and weave through alleys and such until they lose your scent and give up, and such.

You also get Disciplines of course, but those are too varied to really bring up in any detail.

You can also heal any wounds you personally inflict by licking them; this is how vampires hide evidence of their blood-sucking after puncturing veins with their fangs.

Vampires can also inflict aggravated damage with their fangs, even to other vampires; it's why baring your fangs at another vampire is basically the same as saying "Step lightly, motherfucker", since it's like brandishing a weapon.

>>52569275
Any amount of sunlight causes aggravated damage, which is a bitch to heal.
Fire does aggravated damage as well.
A stake through the heart paralyses you, which, to be fair, is not as bad as what it does to mortals.
If you're badly injured enough or run out of blood you enter Torpor, in which you are effectively dead until a length of time passes- for high humanity vampires, that might be between a month or a day. For low humanity/path vampires, it could be anywhere between a year and a millennia. And if you entered it because of starvation, you don't wake up until someone feeds you blood, period.
You need to spend 1 blood dot per day to wake up, or enter torpor.
True faith can repel you, as can holy places.
You have a Beast inside you, and if you don't maintain your morality, be it humanity or the inhuman Paths of Enlightenment, you become a feral, stupid predator.
You are directly involved with the jihad, an ancient game of intrigue and politics between vampires, which spans centuries and has embroiled the whole world.
You are a pawn. The only way to avoid being a pawn is to be inconsequential- no amount of power will help, because there is always someone stronger and older than you.
Your elders may one day rise and drink you like a capri-sun package.
All your fellows are huge assholes.
You almost certainly already have enemies in the Camarilla, if you are Sabbat or Anarchs, the Sabbat if you aren't Sabbat, or everyone, if you're an Anarch. If you are none of the above, expect to be treated like shit by everyone unless you're strong enough to tell them to shut up.
Werewolves be scary as fuck bro
And every clan has a specific weakness, like needing to eat flesh too, or not being visible in mirrors, or being insane.

That's all I can think of, I'm sure there's more.

>>52569312
Hey, there's nothing wrong with someone wanting to learn.

>>52569239
Ok so compared to Requiem
All damage that isn't caused by Banes(fire, sun, derengements) turns into bashing
Healing 1 for 2 bashing 1:1 lethal
You can spend 1 point to get +2 on a physical roll.
You get enhanced senses - see in the dark, only -2 in pitch blackness, hear heartbeat from 3m/1blood potency, smell and see blood no matter tha amount(10m/1bp range). Also add BP for finding hidden people
You can flip your Predator Aura on to for example frighten someone or make him more susceptible to getting seduced
Ghouling is instant but requires 1 vitae and 1 willpower point

>>52569312
I never played VtM so I'm curious how do they compare in basics to VtR vamps

>>52569362
Oh, that's a benefit I didn't think of.

In Masquerade, Embracing someone only requires draining them of blood, through any means, and then feeding them a tiny bit of yours. I'm unsure of how much, but it doesn't cost a blood point, so not much at all.

This means a single vampire could embrace a dozen people easy. An elder of low generation could probably embrace a hundred people in a night, if he wanted.

Of course, then you have a hundred shocked, traumatized vampires, and good luck keeping control of them, but hey, you can. The Sabbat like to do this, then hit them with a shovel, throw them in a grave, and then watch. The ones that frenzy and dig their way out are mentally fucked up, and are then stuffed full of end of the world cult propaganda, armed, and then sent off to murder some camarilla fuckers.

It's not done often, but it is a popular technique in sieges.

>>52569407
>The Sabbat like to do this, then hit them with a shovel, throw them in a grave, and then watch. The ones that frenzy and dig their way out are mentally fucked up, and are then stuffed full of end of the world cult propaganda, armed, and then sent off to murder some camarilla fuckers

To be fair Sabbat doesn't consider shovelheads really proper vampires because they're just sock troops intended to die. It's very difficult to find your way out of that and become a regular member of the sect, but you if do it you're a badass motherfucker.

>>52569407
The Sabbat only do mass Embraces in war zones, though, reasoning that the Camarilla will have the double pain f both dealing with crazed fledglings and repairing the Masquerade afterwards.
Sabbat-controlled territories have much stricter rules on Embracing, though maybe not as strict as the Camarilla.

>>52569407
Ok so in Requiem you can't mass produce vampires like this since it can cause humanity loss and costs 1 willpower dot not point.

However if you want shock troops you can produce Larvae. Drain, spend 1 willpower point you get vampire zombie with no humanity. If I remember correct sire-childe bond works for them alright but you can also scare them into submission. Larvae packs develop sort of team work/hive mind that makes them dangerous.

>>52569275
>what are the drawbacks?

Vampires aren't the biggest fish in the lake. They have to contend with supernaturals stronger than themselves.

>>52569489
How intelligent and loyal are Larvae? Is there any reason to have ghouls, beyond as social servants?

Because that sounds pretty bad ass.

>>52569507
Larvae are botched embraces that are essentially just feral vampires. Well, that's one theory.

>>52569499
Aren't vampires relatively strong enough to hold their own against other supernaturals though? They got buffed in 2e I believe.

>>52569550
As long as they can beat up Hunters, they're fine.

Nobody likes humans.

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>>52564268
I don't know, I always found the whole metaplots vs sandbox pointless because it depends entirely on your ST and group. For our group all that metaplot was just fancy backdrop we used maybe a handful of times in over 15 years of playing WoD.

>>52569499
Let's not assume. The default VtM setting does have other supernaturals, who are pound for pound more dangerous in some cases (see; werewolves), but vampires rule human society far more effectively, and can generally outmaneuver other supernaturals. These supernaturals are NPC only. The vampires are the center of the night.

Now, if your storyteller includes the other splats as crossover elements that changes, drastically- mages are king- but if he does that he should probably kill himself. oWoD is very much designed for each splat to define the cosmology. Moving from that kinda fucks them.


>>52569550
This is oWod, and on a splat by splat basis- fuck no.

Now, mind you, those werewolves are likely to be in some hurt if the vampires have corporations move in and start clearcutting, but in a direct fight, no, bad idea... unless you're willing to mass embrace half a hundred shovelheads, send them in to distract the werewolves, and then cut them to shreds with hunter-killer packs and warghouls.

The Sabbat and the Camarilla both have strategies for fighting werewolves, and while they prefer to avoid them (werewolves are scary, it's not really worth it usually), they can be very effective. They just can't go head to head.

Mages fuck everyone else up the ass, end of story. Never include Splat mages in a VtM chronicle. It's a bad idea, unless you want to humiliate or kill your players for some reason.

>>52569507
Don't have the book on me(Described in Wicked Dead book) so can't check the rules. However I remember in the same book there is NPC vamp that rutinely creates nests of those and they obey her like a queen bee.

Problem is Larvae are walking Masquarade breaches and Prince will hang you by the balls. Also 0 Humanity vamps(called Draugr) can't embrace properly and always produce Larvae.

Well Ghouls most of the time won't try to eat your friends. Larvae is more like superpowered attack dog

>>52569603
Like bone path necromancy zombies but less awful.

Or Tzimisce war ghouls, but dumber.

>>52569625
Dumb is relative. As I mentioned earlier pack of larvae gets a shit ton of bonus in working together to bring down more powerful foe.

I don't know much about war ghouls thou

>>52569317
Continuing on...

Vampires can also temporarily enhance a physical attribute by one dot per bloodpoint spent for the duration of a scene, all the way up to one point past their normal generational limit. They can also increase their physical attributes further, but any additional bonuses past the usual limit (generation plus one) will disappear after three turns, and it can never go higher than 10, no matter what.

It's this ability that lets vampires temporarily perform truly superhuman feats like moving faster than the eye can see or throwing cars around, even if they lack the relevant disciplines that would passively increase their physical attributes.

Vampires also don't age, unles you're a thinblood with the "slow aging" flaw, in which case you DO age at roughly 20% of the usual rate, meaning you're probably never gonna live past 500 years, even if a stronger vampire doesn't curbstomp you for laughs.

>>52569328
>That's all I can think of, I'm sure there's more.

Don't forget that animals instinctively distrust or hate all Kindred; you need the "Inoffensive to animals" merit, bloodbond them or use Animalism to get any animal to not bark/howl/screech their head off the moment they see you, and while some might run away in fear, others will attack you on sight.

>>52569677
Thanks for taking effort mate. I mostly wanted to see how in terms of basic mechanics shared by all vampires VtR vamps compare to VtM ones

>>52569677
I believe just having Animalism removes that trait.

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>>52569653
War ghouls come in two sorts.

1. Normal ghouls that've been heavily augmented with the Vicissitude fleshcrafting discipline- they're about as dangerous as a normal combat focused ghoul, but waaaaay scarier looking and often have bone armor and natural weapons. The benefit of them is they're just as intelligent as normal ghouls- but their inhuman looks mean they're utterly dependent on the vampire, as they can no longer live in human society. They're also usually pretty inhuman and monstrous in outlook. In the old days, Tzimisce liked using Revenants for this, as they can produce their own vitae, but nowadays warghouls are saved for special assaults (intelligent enough not to casually breach the masquerade, but too inhuman for most uses), and haven defense. Plus, most of the revenant families are dead or traitors now.

2. Vozhd. These fuckers are horrifying. They're amazingly dangerous too. Imagine what happens when you get someone who can meld bone and flesh like clay, and then give them 10-20 human beings to work with. Massive, nightmarish amalgamations of flesh and bone, they're the tanks of the ghoul world. Pretty rare in the modern day though, because they're usually pretty dumb and absolutely giant. Masquerade breaches in the flesh. Pic related.

>>52569141
The entire point of Masquerade is that the cons outweigh the pros of being a vampire - it is, after all, a curse.

I think that's the main reason I prefer it to other splats - you aren't awesome, you're extremely unlucky

>>52569761
Personally, I prefer it when it's up to individual perception whether or not it's a curse (another advantage of Requiem 2e).

>>52569788
I'd argue that VtM vampires have it better than Requiem vampires. You don't need to worry about periodically going into torpor, or the whole "haze of ages" thing.

Also the predatory nonsense, but I heard they improved that in 2e.

>>52569827
>or the whole "haze of ages" thing.

That's actually gone in Requiem 2E.

>>52569827
Requiem 1e vampires are completely boned. But if you're playing in a modern setting, realistically speaking, you won't ever have to worry about going into torpor in several decades/centuries (to be honest, the fact that, because of how games work, modern neonates probably won't ever get to experience the true longevity of vampirism makes me think that I'd enjoy playing a historical game more, and living throughout the centuries).

>>52569827
Fog of ages no longer exists in second edition. Predator taint is no longer passive. You can flare it to bitch slap neonate into submission without resorting to violance. Torpor is still a thing but there are many ways to work around feeding restrictions so you postpone it

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>>52569862
I think Requiem was a very odd take in how WW wanted a more grounded, down to earth approach that just resulted in underpowered vampires.

>to be honest, the fact that, because of how games work, modern neonates probably won't ever get to experience the true longevity of vampirism makes me think that I'd enjoy playing a historical game more, and living throughout the centuries
That reminds I really need to get my group to try out some of that Dark Eras stuff. Or just Requiem for Rome. It's not like Dark Ages for Vampire, but it'll have to do.

>>52569891
I want to try and play game in Pangea(before Atlantis, death of father wolf and so on). If I would figure out how to make it proto-vampire game I can probably go wild

>tfw running hunter the vigil
>ran since december
>one of the players in character points out how most of the most disgusting monsters were just straight up humans or things that recently stopped being human
>tfw I cant remember if that's what I'd intended in the first place

>>52569891
I'd love to do Requiem for Rome, but I have no group and I'm honestly not quite sure what I'd play, since my favorite covenants aren't around (something like the Followers of Set would be interesting, though).

>>52569891
>dark eras

is the companion out?

>>52569827
>You don't need to worry about periodically going into torpor
You do though - all vampires as they get older feel the call of torpor, and eventually all fall asleep, sometimes with disastrous consequences (the Ventrue clanbook has the example of a ventrue who was at the head of a massive trade network going into torpor in the 12th century and waking up in the 21st century poorer than a pauper)

You also have meddling methuselahs and elders to contend with in Masquerade

>>52569975
Its advanced pdf went out to backers someone did share it a while back

>>52569989
Also in VtR 2ed you might want to take a risk and go into torpor simply to lessen feeding penalties. Yeah you will wake weaker but only in terms of blood potency. Deva elder straight out of torpor can still throw 15 str punch without warm up and not having to feed on vampires for next 200 years might be worth taking 50-100 years nap

>>52570021
Thanks. I was just wondering because it's not in MEGA folder.

I want to do a vampire setting in Miami. Who would the dominant clans be? I was thinking.

1.) Ventrue due to being chased out of Cuba during the revolution.

2.) Giovanni. Italian mafia and the growth of the 80s cocaine trade, though their influence is fading.

3.) Samedi. Due to the large number of Haitian immigrants.

4.) Brujah wanting to fuck up the rest of the capes who fled from theurn just punishment in Cuba

Who else should be on this list?

>>52570151
Canon wise Miami is Sabbat territory.

But you can do your thing as well, I'd also add Toreadors to that list

>>52570151
Here's a site that might interest you, for inspiration at least.
http://www.oocities.org/wodmiami/vampire/index.html

And I'd suggest a strong Sabbat presence. Miami is quite close to their area of influence. As for Sabbat clans...

Serpents of Light (because of the Haitians)

Brujah Antitribu

Toreador Antitribu

and Lasombra.

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Am I the only one that finds the CofD logos kitschy?

>>52562361
In Requiem, the Ordo Dracul sometimes Embraces the mentally and physically crippled just to see what will happen.

>>52570241
Admittedly they have that "fresh out of commercial design class" look

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>>52570241
They look better on actual covers.

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>>52562025
>It honestly doesn't make sense that vampires can even GET tattoos post-embrace. That they can is literally a contrivance for the sake of maintaining the modern goth-punk vampire image.

They literally *can't* get tattoos or permanent piercings post-embrace, since they all fade the next time the sun rises, unless they know someone with Vicissitude, or if they're a Toreador with the merit "Indelible", in which case they're an exception.

Some Toreador Antitribu even created a Combo Discipline (Presence 1 and Vicissitude 2), "Devil's Mark", to basically imbue fleshcrafting-tattoos and piercings with Presence powers, which allows vampires to make use of Presence-powers even if they lack the actual discipline, as long as their targets are capable of seeing the tattoos/piercings.

That said, the tattoos and piercings fade away on vampiric bodies and lose their powers when the Presence power has been expended... unless the artist uses a point of permanent willpower, in which case the power can be used over and over, though only once per night or something, if I recall correctly... and if the person gets the tattoo fleshcrafted again (or just gets it cut off) it loses all power as well.

>>52569912
Wouldn't that not work because Cain didn't make any new vampires until he was king of Babylon or something?

>>52570615
This is CofD. There is no cain

>>52570632
Oh, sorry. I don't know much of the lore behind cofd.

>>52570877
There is no explained origin of vampires. It's heavily implied that they were not even same species back in a day but number of bloodsucking monsters that later interbreed through blood sharing. There are Shadow Demons called Strix that claim to be sources of vampirism but this falls apart under scrutiny.

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>>52570915
I really like how each clan actually has multiple myths and potential points of origin of their own.

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>>52570416
those are some sick perky tits. I like me some requiem artwork in general.

did they improve animalism in 2e? I remember in 1e it was species specific, and that was shit.

>>52570962
it still remains beyond me how some of that shitty formatting got past the editor, though.

>>52570962
Masquerade's the same though

>>52570983
Check out Immortal Sinners and Wicked Dead mate. Some of my favourite stuff is there

>>52571070
Not really? I mean, there's Caine, Abel, curse, Enoch, the 2nd generation, the Antedeluvians, each created a clan, so on and so on.

Has anyone noticed that Requiem/Masquerade has more female players than other game lines?

>>52571095
Well no, that's only if you bought into Noddist lore.

Each clan has unique tales of how they came to be, and some of them believe that their curses aren't curses at all.

Take the Followers of Set for example; for them, Set was the first vampire, no Caine in that tale, and no Enoch, curse or other Antes either

>>52570983
Is #1 and #4 the same gal? Looks like it, if so, nice

>>52571133
>Well no, that's only if you bought into Noddist lore.

You mean canonical information of which there is only one correct version. Clans can believe what they want.

>>52571133
Any examples other than Set?

There's the african Kindred, I guess, but other than the Settites (not including the Serpents of Light of course) I can't think of any clan that doesn't view Caine as the progenitor. Some bloodlines, but most of those are old pagan ones that died out in the Dark Ages.

>>52570983
#3 is Waifu tier.

>>52571186
Gangrel, Ravnos, Assamite, Nosferatu, some more scientific Tremere, Lilim
>>52571184
Only in Gehenna.

>>52571033
>editor
This is still WoD we're talking about.

You know, I'm curious: would anyone here want a Ventrue waifu? I get the sense the Mekhet are most popular for it here.

>>52571598
>tfw your waifu has secretly been dominating and consitioning your mind so you think shes always been your waifu

My hypnosis boner says yes please

>>52567548
>quit being a delusional self rightious fag
Magefags never aknowledge their weaknesses and never aknowledge strength; BECAUSE mage is such a terribly designed game with vague as shit rules for magic.

Mage sucks Get over it and Grow up

>>52571598
Yes, sugar mama baronesses in pencil skirts are in fact attractive.

>>52571598
This is relevant to my intrests

>>52571770
>>52571938
>>52571944
I kind of want to be the Ventrue waifu to some other girl/s.

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>>52571111
You mean guys playing female characters. Both in and out of game. Because they're trannies.

>>52571598
I hear you but can you bring out cute nosferatu waifu

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>>52570983
#2 looks like it's both 85 and 8.5 at the same time.

So, I kind of have an idea for archmastery that I want to bounce off this thread. While there's no hard limit on how many archmasters exist, only one member of any given legacy may be an archmaster. If another member of the legacy becomes an archmaster, the two must engage in Certamen, a concept battle-debate that determines the "truth" of the legacy. This is a battle in which one's power does not matter, so established archmages can lose. The winner alters the loser's "truth", effectively giving them a new legacy with no followers. Or if you want to be an absolute bastard and spend a permanent dot of wisdom, you can ruin their legacy, dooming them to eventual quipoth-hood.

Other outcomes are possible - in 2013, two Arch-Blank Badges engaged in a Certamen where they each focused on perfecting their own version of the legacy without tearing each other's legacy down too much. The result was the existence of two legacies called Blank Badges, one individualist reality terrorists, the other group-oriented reality hackers.

>>52570318

The Demon logo looks kind of like a DOOM reference. I love it.

>>52566731
I was under the impression that the 5/5 magic armor discussion was separate from what >>52566341 was talking about.

>>52566345
>>52567593
Mind I don't want to create conflict again, I'm starting to really hate when entire threads turn into shit because of this, also because I like almost all splats myself but:
The kind of powerlevel discussion is done poorly, I am a powerlevelfag, and I am accustom to that, so I already know what we have to do to do a proper confrontation by using effective data. And I can say that most discussions made in here are done really poorly.
>Vampfags can be annoying, but magefags sometimes are really provoking.
For example, let's talk about the discussion from some thread ago, about 5 dots vamp vs 2 dots mages, saying that even 2 dots were able to outperform disciplines. (oWoD speaking).
Now I'll explain why the thing was handled poorly.
>People took into consideration nWoDMage once oWoD examples failed to show their argument
>They took for granted that a 2 dot mage, or a 5 dot vamp actually knew beforehand that they were facing a splat. Nobody ever bothered to draw a scenario. In case of knowing, not knowing the difference is HUGE.
>anon started considered cases where the mage/vamp had the perfect sphere/discipline at the correct time against the perfect opponent.
But, let's return to our 2vs5 dots discussion.
By having both manuals I analized the Mage spheres and the Vamp disciplines, and Vamp disciplines as such levels are stronger. Mages shows sign of low tier manipulation in the spheres of their choices, while Vamp can nail it. I also found really interesting the confrontation done using the examples of the Mage book and the Disciplines effects:
Mind 2: Pathos
>Makes you able to sense other people emotions
Auspex 2: Sense Auras
>Makes you able to sense other people auras, the colour of the aura reflects their current strongest emotion.
Mind 3: Mental Link
>Basically is Telepathy
Auspex 4: Telepathy
>Self explanatory
Mind 5: Untether
>Makes you able to travel in your spiritual form
Auspex 5: Psychic Projection
>The exact same thing
Continues.

>>52571548
For serious, Onyx Path doesn't have editors. They have proofreaders. Everything else is handled by the writers.

>>52573383
Mind 4: Manipolate Memory
>Makes you able to manipolate memories, deleting them also.
Dominate 3: The Forgetful Mind
>Same thing
Forces 4 Telekinetic Control
>Makes you able to control the movement of an object, but you cannot make it faster than it is, only slower, but you can also change its vector.
Celerity X
>Makes you move faster
Thaumaturgy Movement of The mind
>Makes you able to use telekinesis
Also There are tons of Thaumaturgy stuff that makes you able to control the elements quite easily. Forces is more versatile thou, because you only need to learn it, not to learn the other 4-5 different paths of Thaumaturgy to make it work.
I can make infinite of examples like this, but I don't want to waste another post for a concept that you understood already.
Another critique I often saw to the disciplines is that they are limited. That's true, if we compare to the concept of Spheres, were only fantasy is the limit, but Disciplines in truth have effects that can apply to a really huge variety of situations, and they are made like this on purpose, to check into various scenarious without becoming boring easily. On part on that, even Vampiric Disciplines have different power for the same dots that results in even more variety, so, ok if compared to the infinite possibilities of spheres disciplines are kind of limited, but they offer effects that can be used on a moltitude of situations effectively never to be underestimated. Now Back to the classic fight.

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>Matching powers means dominance
HAha did sucking the brown eye too much finally give you a contact high magecucks?

>>52573383
>>52573719
Speaking of disciplines, Vampires have Instinct level ones that every vampire may have, like Potence, Celerity and Fortitude, others may be teached.
We all know that Vampires have different power level upon themselves, a 13th gen cannot be compared to a 4th or 7th gen, so, when we are doing a comparison, what kind of Vampire are talking about? Another mistake I often see is by speaking of Vampires by their grades, Ancillae, Elder and so on, when it just means the amount of unlife a vampire lived, not the generation, and yes, it is possible to have a 13gen Ancillae or even Elder, even thou they are quite rare.
Based on the generation, Vampires can heal up more damage per turn, boost their physical attributes and so on. The lower the gen, the more blood points they can spend per turn, to heal/boost, if they are 13th or the like, the amount will be 1, with other it will be even higher, and the basic blood pool of a vampire as well.Furthermore, the older a vampire, the more experience he will have, unlikely most mages, that need to leave the Consensus in order to live for long, and if they leave the consensus a dispute is really unlikely to happen at all. Also a Vampire may approach a Mage in order to feed while in need, rarely a vampire may engage in direct combat, if its in a position of power, he may send underlings, or just evict you out of your home, never to take direct approach, and it may take a huge amount of effort to find the culprit under the tons of people serving the vampire, even without knowing it.
But we want violence, and fight to the death, so, let's create a vampire with X disciplines of X generation and X clan and make it fight against a mage that knows X spheres and while being of a X tradition, then we decide the situation and the ground of the fight, then we may have a discussion. I may suggest to avoid 3th or above Vampires and 6+ Spheres Mages to avoid headaches.
>>52573850Please, don't start another pointless discussion.

>>52568797
Everyone got buffed in 2e though.

>>52571033
At least in last edition it's correct. I think that anon has some weird pdf reader.

>>52573850
He's saying that vampires aren't as outclassed by mages as people think in their field of specialty. I swear most vampfags are illiterate.

>>52573122
Sorry I was drunk and uncoordinated last night.

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>>52570962
>Once upon a midnight darkly

>>52574151

Morality stats have become a real ass-wrecker though. Especially with Touchstones in Vampire.

>>52564628
Not as long as there are any mage players in these threads, I'm afraid.

The 0 Self-Control is real.

Poison.

>>52573383
>>52573719

Ummm, I don't think you actually did your research regarding your apparent comparisons.

On a scale of one to ten, how bad of an idea would it be to run a game which basically amounts to Hunter but allowing the players to take supernatural templates, given limited GMing experience and no experience actually playing a storytelling system game?

Given that I'm expecting an answer on the order of negative seventeen and still plan on doing it anyways, what are the best tips you have on Storytelling, what are some good general resources for running, and are there any Actual Play podcasts or videos which give a good feel for how the game is meant to be run?

>>52573989
You're vastly overestimating the Kindred.

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So why is it necessary for lower dots in Arcana / Sphere to outdo the Disciplines at higher dots, again?

I know balance isn't the main issue for the developers but I'm still a bit struck by the massive gap between Mage and the various other game lines.

>>52576373
So a crossover muderhobo campaign? Impossible to balance. If you're crazy enough to do it anyway ban Demon, Mummy, or Mage and hope for the best.

>>52576321
>>52576458
I think you'll find out you've been BTFO by based anon

>>52576520
Because oWoD is very crossover-unfriendly, and in the mage book they're normal, but become massively OP when compared to vampire or werewolf.

It's the same with the lore.

So what's the Beast splat about? I'm not entirely sure I'm getting the concept.

>>52576600
It's for the best you don't understand

>>52576600
Primordial horrors that epitomize certain fears

>>52576551
>I think you'll find out you've been BTFO by based anon

Eh, players of Vampire never bother to actually read a Mage core book (whatever the edition) to support their bias. But "based anon" tho, so I guess he/they just don't give a flying turd.

>>52576520
As I explained before in my posts, with certain mages it can be unnecessary, also it depends on the situation, the setting, and the power of the vampire you are playing. Mages will always have extreme flexibility thou.

>>52576638
Are you implying that Mages read the vamp books, or any other splat for that matter?

Thanks for blowing apart my sides.

>>52576664
Given that most people start off by playing vamp, yes.

>>52576641
>with certain mages it can be unnecessary
Not really. The Arcana / Spheres are just that, necessary in their breadth and scope.

>also it depends on the situation, the setting, and the power of the vampire you are playing
In both Ascension and Awakening, a low Arete / Gnosis mage is going to steamroll even an elder if they prepare accordingly. Bringing in masterful wizards is just suicide for the Kindred.

>Mages will always have extreme flexibility thou.
They also have the most raw power out of any splat, and the ability to improvise even further.

>>52576684
Statistical proof of this?

>>52576664
Considering magefags love their proof of supremacy, I would say that's a big fucking yes.

>>52576717
Do you want statistical proof that the Queen of England takes a shit every morning?

>>52576727
>magefags are so pathetic that they've spent countless hours reading other splats' books just so they can claim that their fictional characters are the strongest there ever was!

Wow, that sounds incredibly sad desu

>>52576746
>makes a claim
>proof?
>uhhh excuse me?

>>52576763
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>52576771
>uh oh, looks like I've been BTFO, better start shitposting

Right back @ u fatty ;^)

>>52576691
No on here is going to argue that lower dots in Mage can outdo higher dots in Vampire.

But hey, guess what? Nobody cares! Play your god fucking game.

>>52576784

Well aren't you an angry little anon

>>52569912
Nothing is before Atlantis. As far as the timeline is concerned 'Atlantis' never existed.

>>52576861
k

>>52576717
Vampire is the oldest splat, it's the most supported splat, it had a (short lived) television series, it has a video game attached to it with a rather large cult following, had an ambitious mmo project (that ultimately fell apart) and on almost every forum when new people ask what splat to start with Vampire is the most universal answer even among magefags in these threads. Even without stats it's common sense that most people's first experience with world of darkness is Vampire.

>>52576881
kay

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>>52576833
>Nobody cares

Apparently this is not true. Vampfags love to believe that equality between Disciplines and Magery is a thing, when it isn't. ;^)

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>Not being a magecuck on 4chan
What are you a sub faggot?

>>52576551
>Because oWoD is very crossover-unfriendly
You're right but its not because of that. If people can play a pathfinder game with level 18 fighters and wizards in the same party they sure as fuck can play mixed splat WoD games. The reason its crossover unfriendly is because each splat has a weird gimmik that doesn't really mix well with others (IE vampires being night time only, werewolves having to stop to go on a hunt or else they literally start losing their powers.)

>>52576531

Mummy is kind of a no-brainer, as well as Promethean, and if someone wants to play a Demon they're going to need a hell of a reason to want to associate with a pack of monster hunters, since the last thing a Demon wants is the possibility of being forced to go loud.

I'm not convinced Mage is really that bad, considering the game is going to be more investigation focused than straight hunting - tracking down weird phenomena, investigating murder or missing person cases where involving the police would bring unwanted attention, etc. - so combat disparities probably aren't going to be a huge issue.

>>52577168
>considering the game is going to be more investigation focused than straight hunting - tracking down weird phenomena, investigating murder or missing person cases where involving the police would bring unwanted attention


Then you absolutely must ban Mages because otherwise every mundane mystery/investigation would be trivial from char-gen.

>>52576949
Devs of both oWoD and nWoD consider mages to be above the rest.

lol

If you're looking for a crossover system, Vampire practically *is* that despite being centred on being its own thing. There are a whole bunch of clans and bloodlines which are basically thematic hybrids of Vampire and some other system's main supernatural subjects. There are magey vampires, there are feyey vampires, there are demony vampires, there are mummyey vampires, there are vampires themed after being scruffy wilderness losers with werewolf-like transformation (which has been a subset of vampire folklore all along, so werewolves are the big losers of folklore), there are vampires themed after being useless bitches with no decent abilities (Hunter crossover)...

what others are there again? I bet they have representation in Vampire too.

>>52564466
Yup. Their Sunlight Laser couldn't penetrate the storm being maintained by the 3 Boddhisatvahs. Go Kueijin.

>>52577561
And for some reason they thought bombing India was a good countermove, rather than teleporting the Bodhisattvas into a desert or something.

WW writing at its worst.

>>52577630
Nah, that'd be Vampire writers, writing Mages as antagonists.

I suspect the PHP and C++ programming languages are funded by Pentex and Bjarne Stroustroup and Rasmus Ledorf are actually formarchs of some kind.