>the fighter and the barbarian rely on their strength. strength

>>52539864
It is common sense to believe in gods since gods are quantifiable and active. Only fools are atheists.

>>52539888
Prove me 1 instance of jesus being real. I'll wait.

>>52539864
*tips fedora*
that'd be a good thought in any setting where there was no proof of gods existing. but as it stands every setting has quantifiable proof of divinity so you're a fag

>>52539917
You're a fucking moron. I play a d20 MODERN setting because im not some fucking nostalgiafag trying to live the Good Ol Days of post renissance neomodernism 1600s. There are zilch, ZERO, NADA gods in modern.

>>52539864
>magic
>existing
I bet you believe in witches too

>>52539994
>hurr durr wicca isnt real
Stupid bitch, you'd better make peace with your family and friends tonight before you go to sleep...

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>>52539974
alright, no need to flip your lid because i used hyperbole

>>52539911
The Bible.

>>52539911
We're not talking about real life we're talking about in D&D. In 3.pf for example you get to meet Iomedae, a god. Also you can summon the servants of gods. And talk to gods. You can even become a (demi)god.

>>52539974
Wait, d20 modern has clerics who get divine magic?

>>52539864
I bet if you were born 100 years ago you would have believed in god like everyone else you stupid fuck

Rude sage

>>52540027
yeah, you used hyperbole like an arrogant piece of shit who thinks the world revolves around himself. stop doing that.

>>52540038
>3.pf
opinion discarded. you have ZERO reading comprehension and do not understand that i'm talking about a M O D E R N A E S T H E T I C where there are CARS and GUNS and FALSE PROPHETS

>>52540060
street shaman and Father get them.

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>>52539917
>his setting has actual gods

>>52539864
Nice bait thread, try to hide your fedora better next time

>>52540093
>anything i dont like is bait
you must be a fun person at parties.

>>52540106
6/10, have a (you)

Remember, ironic shitposting is still shitposting

>>52540063
whgats the matter did i trigger ur fee fees??

>>52540145
Yeah okay whatever nerd. You're probably just jealous that I have made a successful game on steam and now I'm expanding into making the greatest modules for use in roll20. Fuck off cunt.

>>52540072
>street shaman and Father get them.
So the gods probably exist, then. Something has to be giving them magic, they're not doing it themselves like the wizard is. I mean, they might be wrong about the nature of the gods, but that's the difference between wisdom and intelligence. High intelligence would have them investigating just what the gods they draw power are, high wisdom is just them accepting the reality of their existence and leaving more abstract theoretical questions to someone else, they're busy.

>>52539864
>didn't think anyone could be retarded
>was proven wrong
Never change /tg/

>>52540181
Street shaman gets its magic from ancient spirits of it's forefathers, Father gets his powers from the medical supplies he keeps. he's so deluded into thinking he's the servant of god he does not realize when he's injecting medicines or poisons into people.

>>52540201
Yeah, you're retarded

>>52540072
>street shaman and Father get them.
Then gods exist by the fact that such characters are directly empowered by the gods.

>opinion discarded. you have ZERO reading comprehension and do not understand that i'm talking about a M O D E R N A E S T H E T I C where there are CARS and GUNS and FALSE PROPHETS
Nigger you didn't say that in the initial post.

Wisdom is in many ways linked with philosophy and one's ability to reason. It's also linked with one's ability to understand others and their surroundings (sense motive, perception, survival). It is also associated with willpower (the will saving throw).

Wisdom is a lot more than just common sense. The whole wisdom being only common sense thing is a meme.

>>52540282
please see >>52540221
>Anonymous 04/04/17(Tue)15:36:04 No.52540
learn to fucking read the goddamn thread you stupid prick/ im not even going to read the rest of your shitty shitpost because you are just trolling at this point.

>>52540221
>Street shaman gets its magic from ancient spirits of it's forefathers, Father gets his powers from the medical supplies he keeps. he's so deluded into thinking he's the servant of god he does not realize when he's injecting medicines or poisons into people.
Then shit, they aren't empowered by gods. I still don't get why the Father or Street Shaman matter when the FUCKING INTIAL POST SAYS CLERIC.

CLERIC IS NOT A CLASS IN D20MODERN. IT IS A CLASS IN MOST EDITIONS OF D&D.

NOTHING IN THE INITIAL POST LEADS ONE TO THINK THIS IS A DISCUSSION OF D20 MODERN.

>>52540304
>learn to fucking read the goddamn thread you stupid prick/ im not even going to read the rest of your shitty shitpost because you are just trolling at this point.
Fucking choke on a bag of dicks. Where the fuck was D20 Modern, Father or fucking Street Shaman mentioned in the OP.

They're not relevant to this discussion. We're talking about Clerics.

>>52540304
>learn to fucking read the goddamn thread you stupid prick/ im not even going to read the rest of your shitty shitpost because you are just trolling at this point.
I can't see you as doing anything but trolling. This entire thread is bait.

>>52540307
IF U READ THE FUCKING THREEAD ITS BECASUE I AM MAKING A MODOLE FOR USE ON ROLL20 U STUPID FUCK. U HAVE NO IDEA HOW HARD IT IS TO MAKEN ANYTHING BECUASE U ARE A LAZY SHITPOSTER MEANWHILE I HAVE A GAME ON STEAM http://store.steampowered.com/app/343150/ AND U HAVE JACK SHIT

FUCKING LEARN TO READ
FUCKING LEARN TO APPLY YOURSELF
DRINK BLEACH

>>52540334
FUCK YOU.

>>52540336
THEN SAY THAT IN YOUR INITAL POST YOU FUCKING COCK SUCKER AND DON'T MAKE A FUCKING BAIT THREAD THEN SPERG WHEN PEOPLE GIVE YOU ANSWERS AND GOING 'WELL YOUR ANSWER IS WRONG BECAUSE OF INFORMATION I DIDN'T GIVE YOU'.

FUCK OFF. JESUS CHRIST.

>>52540382
>HURR DURR IM A FUCKING RETARD IM GOING TO COME INTO A THREAD AND BITCH ABOUT THE THREAD DOHYIEEEE
FUCK YOU STUPID BITCH GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE THREAD THEN IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING MEANINGFUL.

>>52540382
AND FYI THE INFORMATION IS IN THE GODDAMN THREAD U STUPID FUCKING NIGGER SO U COULD BE HELPING GIVE ANSWERS WITH THAT IN MIND BUT INSTEAD YOURE JUST A FUCKING SHITPOSTER EAT A WALL OF DICKS.

>>52539911
If you can wait till tomorrow ill cast cure light wounds on you. Because DnD.

>>52540500
were not playing d&d we are playing modern.

>>52539864
In a setting where magic and gods are demonstrably real, being an atheist isn't very wise.

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You are falling for this?

>>52540536
oh look its another asshole who can't read the fucking thread and realize we're playing modern.

>>52540547
>>/a/

>>52540400
>>52540424
Shit then yeah. In d20 modern the reasoning is because wisdom means a lot more than just common sense. Wisdom always has meant a lot more than common sense. That's why clerics run on wisdom.

It's the same reason most charisma casters don't cast with how pretty they are despite appearance being part of charisma.

Kill yourself nigger.

>>52540557
>oh look its another asshole who can't read the fucking thread and realize we're playing modern.
If you want actual discussion put relevant information in the OP instead of getting butthurt when people answer based on information in the OP.

If you were talking about d20 modern why didn't you mention it from the get go and instead use names of D&D classes? Literally what reason would someone reading the OP have to believe you were talking about d20 modern unless he goes to read your subsequent shit flinging.

>>52539864
Most settings that have clerics have gods that exist

>>52540563
bt youre not understanding me its stupid to believe that in a modern setting where its proven that god doesnt exist and jesus was just a ordinary mang that him can give you super natural power. its like saying "yea i can totally throw this fireball beceiase i can bleiev in myself" when in realizty its jbecuse you threw a gasole bottle into the enemy face and threw matchs until it lit

>>52540594
eat dicks. learn to fucking read the thread and quit repeating the same boring old stale shitposts over and over again you stupid 12y/o

>>52540598
this isnt most settings u stupid nigger. read the fucking thread.

>>52540557
>OP says clerics
>gets mad when people address the idea of clerics and not d20 modern, which doesn't have clerics
>somehow we're supposed to infer from the OP you weren't talking about clerics, but talking about d20 modern classes

>>52540612
R E A D T H E T H R E A D
i dont understand the incesttance you peopleh ave with focusing on some shitty OP post instead of looking deeper into it. its like you fags never got the memot about justing a book by its cover

OP are you retarded?

>>52540609
>bt youre not understanding me its stupid to believe that in a modern setting where its proven that god doesnt exist
Wisdom casters in D20 Modern aren't powered by gods.

If there was a cleric of class directly powered by a deity in d20 modern then they themselves would be proof of their existence.

Clerics aren't in d20 modern.

>yea i can totally throw this fireball beceiase i can bleiev in myself
Charisma casters quite literally do this through force of personality exerting their will over the world around them.

>eat dicks. learn to fucking read the thread and quit repeating the same boring old stale shitposts over and over again you stupid 12y/o
Shit man, if you're gonna call other people 12 at least try and be able to type a post without misspelling half of it.

>>52539864
Wisdom represents a character's ability to do mental gymnastics

>>52540632
Ok, let me spell it out for you.

In d20 modern you are working in a modern setting. Wisdom based 'casters' are not based on the direct powering of a deity. There are no 'clerics' in d20 modern. The street shaman and father aren't powered by deities. They work on other aspects of what wisdom is, such as will power and understanding.

If there was a class whose flavor was they were directly empowered by a deity the class existing would be the proof.

Shit I'm still not seeing a connection between your two arguments of why gods and belief matter when both your examples aren't powered by gods.

>>52540649
No, but you are. Fuck off.

>>52540660
>Wisdom casters in D20 Modern aren't powered by gods.

>If there was a cleric of class directly powered by a deity in d20 modern then they themselves would be proof of their existence.

>Clerics aren't in d20 modern.
hence why i have included Street shaman and Father u stupid piece of shit. FUCK YOU, LEARN TO READ THE GOD DAMN THREAD

>Charisma casters quite literally do this through force of personality exerting their will over the world around them.
we are talking about cleric like classes not charism acasters asshole

>Shit man, if you're gonna call other people 12 at least try and be able to type a post without misspelling half of it.
shit man if uyoure gonna call other people 12 then try not to suck my dick off when you dont understand that im literally tpying this on a cellphone while on a train home from work asshole

>>52540678
is that like undressing you with the power of your mind?

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You guys all know that OP makes this same "clerics shouldn't use wisdom as their primary stat because belief in gods is unwise" thread about once a week, right

>>52540718
so he is retarded?

>>52540649

Yes. He is. He's also posting shitty bait.

>>52540703
FINALLY, someone who fucking understands what im trying to say, Wisdom is a stupid stat to associate with them because they are not diety god they should be CHARISMA based. Holy fucking shit you guys are retarded, it took you long enough to understand what I was saying? Jesus christ apply yourselfs and re-enroll in kindergarden holy hell

>>52540718
so youre in agreement that the cyoa jumpchain spamposts every fucking DAY need to fuck off and die on qst where they belong? Fuck off w

>>52540609
>Street shaman gets its magic from ancient spirits of it's forefathers
>its proven that god doesnt exist and jesus was just a ordinary mang
Couldn't Jesus be a particularly powerful street shaman?

>>52540704
>hence why i have included Street shaman and Father u stupid piece of shit. FUCK YOU, LEARN TO READ THE GOD DAMN THREAD
Street Shaman and Father aren't powered by common sense. They are powered by other aspects of the wisdom stat. I'm still not seeing your reasoning here. They aren't 'cleric like' because their flavor is entirely different from clerics.

Not that clerics are powered by common sense either. They're powered by their understanding of their deity and his teachings, something else wisdom based.

>>52540761
No well maybe I guess but then that would mean that he could be but that wouldnt it kinda makes sense..? but they didnt have like streets and shit back then so how could they have done that?

>>52540777
hold the fuck up while i try ot solve this fucking thread, you guys are retarded but its like 1000 monkeys in a room if i can sift through all your bullshit i might be able to make a coherent answer out of it

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Thanks for the keks OP.

I call bullshit. Nobody's played d20 Modern for like a decade now.
Ops & Tactics doesn't count.

>>52539864
This is bait, but whatever, I'm bored.
Wisdom isn't just common sense, it reflects the application of knowledge, as well as the acuity of one's senses.
This is why animal handling and perception are wisdom-based skills.
Now if you're honestly telling me clerics don't apply the knowledge imparted by their faith in their lives, well then shiggy diggy.

Also
>says clerics
>backpedals and days d20 modern
Can't have your fedora and eat it too.

>>52540756
>FINALLY, someone who fucking understands what im trying to say, Wisdom is a stupid stat to associate with them because they are not diety god they should be CHARISMA based. Holy fucking shit you guys are retarded, it took you long enough to understand what I was saying? Jesus christ apply yourselfs and re-enroll in kindergarden holy hell
Except you're entirely wrong here. Clerics do not work on "Force of Personality" or other aspects of charisma.

Clerics are powered by their understanding of their deity and their teachings, something wisdom based as reasoning and awareness is wisdom based.

Them being charisma based would make them not clerics.

>>52540756
>when you get so fanny-flustered that you can't even finish your post

I miss having quest threads on /tg/.

>>52540831
OKAY THEN, WELL MAYBE wizard of coast just made a typo then when they assumed that wisdom would be common sense? Maybe that should be a stat for intellignece then.

>>52540609
>bt youre not understanding me its stupid to believe that in a modern setting where its proven that god doesnt exist and jesus was just a ordinary mang that him can give you super natural power. its like saying "yea i can totally throw this fireball beceiase i can bleiev in myself" when in realizty its jbecuse you threw a gasole bottle into the enemy face and threw matchs until it lit

Prove to me right now that some sort of god doesn't exist.

>protip: You can't
God can neither be proven or disproven and that is why belief is called faith.


Also at the most basic level this is a game of wish fulfillment and fiction. There is no reason that a piece of fiction can not have gods that are totally real and a part of the setting.

This whole thread is just bait from a fedora who probably watched Moral Orel and totally missed the point.

>Tl;Dr
You're over reacting about how others actions don't affect you

Clerics powers should scale as inverse wisdom. As 0/wis obviously since gods don't exist

>>52540855
Wisdom IS common sense, it is also many other things.

Like I said, it's the same reason most charisma based casters don't cast with how pretty they are, despite that beings one of the factors of charisma.

Common sense is part of wisdom, but not all of wisdom, and not even a majority of wisdom.

>>52539911

There's some roundabout proof in the Bible. See the history part tries to triangulate his birth with 3 events that supposedly happened that year (Herod's purge, the Roman census, and a third one I forget) that have some obvious flaws (like how Herod died 4 years before Jesus was born). However, the fact that the Bible tries so damn hard to square the circle and pinpoint a date, leads many scholars to assume that there was at least some guy fitting Joshua's description that was around at the time.

So it's not proof of Jesus, but it is evidence of a "close enough" being an important figure of the time.

ITT:
>some anon is pretending to be angryanon and people fall for the bait.
>people fall for OPs bait.
>I'm replying to this thread despite knowing it's bait.

This is the worst thread I've seen all day

>>52540865
I can prove it right now.
I just drew 666 on the bible my uncle keeps here on the computer desk with ketchup, after I said "if god exists he would smite me for doing this" and nothing bad happened .youre a fucking moron, anon.

Faith and common sense do not go hand and hand, and which is why comon sense should be intelligence and not wisdom unlike >>52540884 who is clearly an autistic piece of shit would like to believe.

And i dont know what the fuck moral oral is so please keep your stupid meme references to pop culture to yourself you normie facebook subhuman filth.

>>52539864
In a setting where the gods are real and grant you actual usable powers, why not?

"Wisdom is common sense" never made any fucking sense.
Wisdom is perception.

>>52540899
>I-ITS PROOF GUYS
>w... well... not really.. but its uh close enough
>I-IT COUNTS I SWEAR!

>>52540916
read hte fukcing thread you stupid nigger cunt god fucking damn i wish i could edit posts and change the OP to tell you stupid shitheads to eat a dick and die if you dont fucking learn to read.

>>52539864
Attention deulists, this is a d20 modern thread in disguise. As we all know d20 modern ranks with scion in terms of bitter fanbases, OP is slinging shit trying to generate discission for a game only he plays.

TL; DR, shit's bait. There's no saving it, let it slide.

>>52540934
>HURRR ANYTHING I DONT LIKE IS BAIT!
have a stroke when your dad suck your cock u piece of shit

>>52540928
Why not just delete the thread then and make a new thread with all the info in the OP then? It'll avoid all of these people coming in and misunderstanding you, and you might actually get a real answer.

>>52540910
Not all people with high wisdom have common sense the same as not everyone with high charisma is beautiful. I'm saying that common sense is a part of wisdom a part that doesn't impact clerics.

>>52540928
You buried youraelf famalamadingdong by mentioning clerics specifically, which are more often kept in fantasy.
Also d20 modern a shit

>>52540952
ive already tryed it says i cant del a post that old.

>>52540955
yea we have inferred tha already that comon sense is int based and not wis based so i wish i could edit the op to reflect this but 4chan is fucking stupid and doesnt have a proper eddit button.

>>52540963
Your shit, keep living nostalgia rose tinted goggle good ol days "muh 1600s medievil" because u cant step it up and play with real men in the modern time you game of pretend likeing faglord

>>52540928
>I-IT COUNTS I SWEAR!

Oh come off it. Even Christopher Hitchens who was as anti-theistic as you can get, noted this in his book that was all about shitting on religion, that yeah based on how hard they tried to tie events to his birth, there probably was some actual guy walking around that they were writing about. It's one of those "the man is buried in their mythos" things.

Shit I'm an atheist, but even I think that yeah, there probably was someone stirring up shit politically that they wrote about later and made into Jesus.

>>52540934
A little off topic, but I'm not terribly familiar with Scion's fanbase. What are they bitter about?

>>52540926
>perception.
Its not just attentiveness its street smarts as well as spiritual knowledge as well. Attentiveness in perception, street smarts for medicine checks (more or less triage and knowing plants) survival, and insight (reading social cues), and spirituality in being able to read into the deeper meaning of all things.

Clerics are wisdom casters because they're able to see the subtleties of the universe and how the gods touch on all things. Monks are wisdom based because they can see the energy within themselves and others. Sure you could lump them under perception but being good at spotting traps does not necessarily convey the same ability to see one's path in the world from a spiritual standpoint.

>>52540910
First off you're assuming god is the Christian God with a capital G. It doesn't have to be that god. It can be any god. Can you construct a logical argument proving god is not real? Even if it was christian God why would he care about your petty actions to prove or disprove him? Why would he waste time and effort on you?

All you've done is prove you're an asshole who is willing to destroy his families holy relics.

>Faith and Common Sense
Wisdom is not just a measurement of common sense. Wisdom can purely be some one passing on phrses and parables about how to live and not get boned. Which is what most holy books are. Just words to live by written by some one who probably had a pretty good handle on the not dying and hurting yourself thing.

You've still done nothing to disprove wisdom is not the appropriate stat for Clerics, Priests, or Street Shaman.

>>52540983
Common sense is wisdom based not int based. Saying otherwise doesn't change that. It also doesn't make you always have good common sense at high wisdom since common sense is only an aspect of wisdom.

You have still given no reasoning for why clerics are powers by common sense. They're powered by wisdom which can but not necessarily indicates a lot of common sense when high. Same as high charisma can indicate beauty but doesn't necessarily do so.

Stats have multiple aspects which aren't necessarily all on the pot at once.

>>52540988
look first off i dont know who the fuck your buttbuddy even chrisopher is and second i dont care because unless you can get me some solid concrete evidence that he exists then im going to call you out on your bullshit for it. i can ask god to just show up and say hi but he wont do it not because he's busy but because he's not real. if god was real then the world woudln't be a goddamn clusterfuck now would it? he could just solve all our problems because hes supposed to be this big compassionate figure (LOL BUT DONT WORRY ABOUT HIS GURO FETISH HELLPIT WHERE HE PUNISHES PEOPLE WHO DONT SUCK HIS COCK BECAUSE HES AN EGOTISTICAL MOTHERFUCKER BUT DONT TALK ABOUT IT)

fuck you, take your religious shit somewhere else you jesus freak

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>>52539864

>>52540983
All these flavours and you chose to be salty.

I'm gonna be honest here, I prefer sci-fi to fantasy.
But the reason why d20 modern is shit is because, well, IRL exists.
If you can't realize that a storytelling medium set in a modern era can so easily fall into either the uncanny valley or just shitty slice of life, then I guess you've got the rose tinted contacts, fameria

>>52541016
Logical argument: If god is real then he would say "im real" when someone wonders if he is or isn't real.

I wont hold my breath waiting for him to say hi though but you totally should (ps: it wont ever happen.)

im not going to read the rest of your post because frankly i have better things to do with my time than listen to ignorant shitposters like yourself.

>>52541025
read the thread. we proved that common sense is NOT wis based because thematically it does not make sense.

>>52539864
>>The cleric relies on his wisdom. Wisdom is a measure of common sense.
>>The cleric believes in god(s)
>Now hold up just a god damn minute.
but gods definitely exist in most fantasy RPG settings

>>52540910
Moral Orel is like the least normy thing possible. It's a claymation show from the early days of Adult Swim that got canned from low ratings and being generally offensive.

Also how do you have this much hatred in your heart? You should calm down, take some breaths, and probably move on with your life. You're only hurting yourself with all this anger over a game of make believe. Go outside, talk to some one and try to be nice. You might make a friend.

>>52541064
>I can't imagine improving my life
enjoy living on your moms basement for the rest of your (hopefully short) days then anon. you must have the shittiest life ever and be a real boring peace of shit, no wonder youre here shitposting in my thread on a korean fax printout website than hanging out with friends or something.

>>52541078
read the threa,d not talkiing about most, were taling about d20 modern. asshole.

>>52541085
>adult swim
>not normie
fuck off idiot.

And dont tell me to calm down you fucking jackass, you and the other trolls in this thread are the people that are causing the problems and i wouldnt be suprirsed if you guys were the ones that left all those negative reviews on my first game.

>>52541029
>LOL BUT DONT WORRY ABOUT HIS GURO FETISH HELLPIT WHERE HE PUNISHES PEOPLE WHO DONT SUCK HIS COCK BECAUSE HES AN EGOTISTICAL MOTHERFUCKER BUT DONT TALK ABOUT IT)
LITERALLY NEVER MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE
A LATER INVENTION BY THE CHURCH
Fuck off cunt, roman records have the crucifixion of christ written. Whether he preformed miracles or not is the question, the man himself existed.

>>52541065
>read the thread. we proved that common sense is NOT wis based because thematically it does not make sense.
Shit man you never proved that. You claimed it and claimed your reasoning was infallible. You know what I knew this was just a bait thread for a while I just need to stop biting the hook.

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>this whole thread

>>52541114
>read the threa,d not talkiing about most, were taling about d20 modern. asshole.
oh yeah i read the thread. it's just funny at this point

>>52541131
yea but yu ever consider that maybe they used him as some sort of make believe miracle man in order to scare low intelligence fools like yourself into tithig to a church because the whole concept of religion is just a gigantic pyramid sceme used to deprive people of their money? "A fool and his monye are soon parting"

>>52541137
Whatever helps you wank better at night, anon. Dumbass.

>>52541155
I'm glad you're enjoying it then. Maybe now you can actually quit posting filler posts and actually post something of value to this thread so we can get my proble m solved, no?

>>52540032
The Bible is the claim.
It can't be the evidence.

>>52541002
Scion's basic idea is the PCs are sons and daughters of Gods. Hermes, Bast, Baldur and such. White Wolf fucked the execution all the way up though. You had to have epic dex to participate in combat, some boons were overcosted or didn't work, and there wasn't really a setting. It was a good idea executed poorly, and that kills games. Port it to FATE or something, or play Exalted.

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>i wouldnt be suprirsed if you guys were the ones that left all those negative reviews on my first game.
THE PLOT THICKENS

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I think we all know OP isn't a WIS based character.

>>52541114
I was more referring to the fact that, instead of being a literal besment-dwelling autist and just imagining a better life, I just go out and get a better life.
But, of course, that kind of behaviour is inconceivable to a d20 modern neckbeard, and is only proven by your autistic, fedora-tipping rage on a "thread on a korean fax printout website"
You probably only play d20 modern just to imagine what having friends feels like
:^]

>>52541183
bible is circular logic
"GOD EXISTS IT SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE THAT HE WROTE xD"

>>52541190
uhh okay i dont understand your post but for reference http://store.steampowered.com/app/343150/ just look at those fucking blatantly obvious fake negative reviews, i have proof that theyre trolls in the comments but knowing 99% of this thread thyere just ognna look at it and pretend to be retarded along with them too.

>>52541203
stupid moron quit taking the words out of my mouth and using them against me. you need to grow the fuck up and realize that when you play medievan princess and dragons youre looking like that guy who plays with sonic and pika chu all day and cross dressed because he couldnt get laid. i bet youre just like that guy in real life. probably smell like shit too. asshole.

>>52541187
Oh, I'm familiar with the game, I've played a campaign or two (though not all the way through, since it really falls apart at high Legend). I find that many of the complaints are highly overblown or easily fixed, but I suppose that's a topic for another thread.
I was just wondering if it was anything beyond that, like if they were salty about 2e or something.

>>52541170
>low intelligence
>can't even spell
>thinks the church just fucking eats money and doesn't distribute to the poor
This is bait, nobody continue responding to this.

>>52541240
> i dont have refutable evidence to post back anything to defend myself so ill just shitpost instead
i told you im taking the subway home right now and typing from my ipad, sorry that i cant fucking spell correctly when its shaking like a motherfucker from my parkinsons, but you don't care because youre a literal autistic shitposter and i really wish the captchas were more like celtic knots or something so they could keep all the stupid trumpvoters like you out of the threads like this.

Angry anon I can't even tell what you're trying to argue for at this point.

What is your actual claim? What are you arguing for?

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I didn't know there was this much autism on the whole internet.

>>52541226
>you need to grow the fuck up
>you look like the guy who plays with sonic and pika chu all day
>and cross dressed because he couldn't get laid
>you probably smell like shit too
>asshole

If you projected any harder, they'd find you in a movie theatre.

>>52541264
im just trying to get hlep with things so i can make a d20 modern port of my game http://store.steampowered.com/app/343150/ to a tabletop system but apparently these salty cucks in this god forsaken thread are just so fucking jealous that somoene can actually make a success out of themselves that theyre going to just shitpost ad infinium until their tiny lilttle micropenises explode

>>52541285
What do you actually want help with? What is your claim? What are you trying to clarify because I'm still not see it.

>>52541240
I'll continue to reapond to it because it's funny and I'm bored.
Thanks for the concern though, man, I appreciate it.

I for one am here so let for It's descent into apocalyptic rage. It's been a while since I've seen someone quite so incapable of arguing a point effectively, it's truly enjoyable to watch.

So shine on, you crazy fedora tipping lunatic.

In d&dland you can worship a god and then shoot healing at people with none of the fuss wizards have to deal with so its pretty good proof. A lot of these settings actually have avatars of the god come down to earth and talk to people too.

>>52541170
>post something of value to this thread so we can get my proble m solved, no?
ill post something of value when you do, fuckface

>>52541313
read the thread and quit skimming over shit just so you can shitpost then.

>>52541325
we are NOT playing D&D we are playing MODERN how the fuck hard is it to understand basic english motherfucker do you speak it? go fuck yourself ,,!,,

>>52540221
>Street shaman gets its magic from ancient spirits of it's forefathers, Father gets his powers from the medical supplies he keeps. he's so deluded into thinking he's the servant of god he does not realize when he's injecting medicines or poisons into people.
Okay, then the Street Shaman should run on wisdom, because he's not believing in a god, he's believing in the spirits, which do exist. Father, though, I guess should run on...charisma? Yeah, that sounds right for someone who's bullshitting his way into making his stuff seem like magic so hard that he himself believes it.

>>52541348
You've contradicted and changed what you're asking for. I'm offering to help. Just ask your question and I'll answer best I can.

Stop making it difficult to help you.

So i see alot of responses on modern setting.
Why is magic and barbarians believable in one but not gods?

I've never seen d20 Modern said over and over again so many times in my life.

>>52541341
i have already posted lots of stuff of value because i have taken the time to carefully consider t
>>52541359
YOU SEE THIS IS THE KIND OF SHIT these trolls do, just non stop fucking hate because they judge everything by its goddamn cover and dont even consider for a second to just i dont know BUY THE GAME AND TRY IT i mean shit they even have steam refunds nowadays but NOPE just gonna shit on something without even looking into it because youre an entitled piece of shit and nothing is good enough for you fucking dipshit WHERE IS YOUR GAME?

>>52541376
agreed. thank you for being understanding, its nice to see a breath of relief when dealing with so many stupid people on a daily basis.

>>52541384
show me where ive contradicted myself then if youre so smart, dumbass.

>>52541232
> falls apart at high legend
I know that feel
> topic for another thread
This one has so much attention already, we could just discuss Scion and there'snothing OP can do about it.

My first character was a combat medic son of Apollo with a vampire killing sun revolver who really didn't want to get roped into another war.

>>52541390
Probably because it's garbage.

>>52541324
And the phone eats my post and makes it incoherent. Eh, it's still above the average quality of OPs.
Seriously though, have you considered reacting calmly? You might get a better response. Rather than telling people to read your rather incoherent string of posts, summarise everything in a single post and link to that if you need to?

>>52540649
Verily.

>>52541399
>i have already posted lots of stuff of value
sounded like autistic screeching to me

>>52541316
I'm just saying in case anybody comes in here actually wanting to discuss the stats, what they mean and so on rather than get lured into some AmazingAthiest's faggotfest because he can't stand people believing in something.

>>52541451
Thats because youre autistic so everything sounds like that to you, asshole.

>>52541399
You never actually asked a question just made a claim that common sense and wisdom being connected is dumb. What do you actually want to know besides that it want help with?

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>>52539864
>Not being a cleric of the Invisible Hand of the Free Market

>>52541399
FYI you shouldn't post anything like a link to your stuff on 4chan. That's just asking for trouble.

Also why are you so mad? Plenty of people are offering help and you keep insulting them. We can only help if you let us.

Sorry about people shitting on your game and I'm sorry about the Parkinson'. I think its really cool you folowed your dream and made a game. But it is super uncool to be this mean. Just calm down and let us help you.

Please give us 5 questions you want answered. We're having a communication problem and can't quite tell what you need. If you'd just take the time to answer this post you'll get the help you need much faster.

>>52541457
you know youre something else. you come into a thread with the viscious virtioulous intent to spit your fucking venom everywhere because malice is the only thing on your heart, and then you have the balls and the oddacity to call someone else a faggot? You are just the worst kind of person and if jesus was actually real I would tell you to go find him. luckily im not stupid like you so ill just tell you to go suck on a shotgun instead.

>>52541474
I really dont need anything else anymore because the problem was already solved in the thread. i just fucking hat e these goddamn trolls in here and im spending my time reporting them every time it lets me so hopefully they cant spread inato another thread and invect it.

>>52541490
please see above this line of text. thank u for your concern and i hope u will at least try my game, it might look a little rough on the edges but its like a burnt hamburger i guess in its own ways haha just a little tender on the outside but still edible.

>>52541490
>being a decent human being
i'd say you're doing god's work anon, but your wisdom might be too high for that

>>52541457
Yeah, I understand.

On that note, however, how would the rest of you anons play a high int low wis character? How would you play a low int high wis one?

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>this entire thread

>>52540909
This is my first post on /tg/ and I'm using to say that it's the worst thread I have ever seen and that the OP is either trying way too hard to bait, has a sub-70 IQ, or is 12 years old.

i think im going to go lay down for a while, ive got a lot t othink about on how to make my next game a success for roll20 modules and the market place there, thank you to all those who actually came in and were polite and gave some good help and advice i really go apprecite it, fuck you to all the goddamn trolls who come in here just to start shit because they dont have any brains in which to analyze and percieve things besides whats straight in front of them. i hope u guys eventually grow up and realize how shitty and shallow and hollow and cold you are and find someone who loves you so you can stop being so dark and evil to everyone you meet.

>>52540942
You're Indian, aren't you? I can just tell by how pitiful your insults are and by the ways you misspell things.

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>>52541226
>http://store.steampowered.com/app/343150/

Yeah, /tg/ must be leaving negative reviews. That's the ONLY possible explanation.

Fuck off, kid

>>52541578
i am from sugarland texas and i have a full blooded american son named shiloh who has celebrated his third birthday. i am more american than 99% of the people in this thread and I am proud to have voted for hillary.

>>52541583
I ddint say /tg/ specifically you dickweed. most of it is 4chan trolls, probably from that shitfest that is /agdg/ that I used to be a member of. Fuck those guys and fuck you.

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I thought this was a bait thread at first, but after reading it OP is genuinely pathetic and I sort of feel bad for him.

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>mfw this entire troll thread gets this many replies

>>52541605
>That's what you get for messing with a shitposter/troll with 25+ charisma ;)

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>>52541597
If you voted for Hillary, odds are he's not actually your son.

>>52541597
>proud to have voted for hillary
How's it feel to have a subhuman IQ?

Out of curiousity I did a search of that game on the archive. The results are hilarious.

https://boards.fireden.net/vg/search/text/343150/

>>52541520
But don't you know, god's not real?

I used my ketchup to make a pentagon and asked him to prove to me i was real but he was Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like

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>>52541485
Relevant to the thread.
>>52541527
High int low Wis is mad scientist/nutty professor. Guy not really thinking about whether or not he should do something rather than can he. He can come up with plans that can work but forgets crucial elements. He's bad at reading social situations and lacks a good amount of common sense. If he can remember specific plants are dangerous he won't touch em but if he doesn't know about aposematism he'll get hands on with all the colorful, toxic shit. Play him high functioning autistic. Low Int high wis is best summed up as Forest Gump. Visibly not bright but worldly knowledge beyond what you would expect from him. He can help you find yourself or survive in a dangerous place, whatever is needed.
That's actually a good way to do it, High int is visibly intelligent, stupid when you get to know them; high wis is visibly dumb but very clever when you get to know them.

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>>52541618
>I was only pretending to be retarded ;_;

Whatever you say

>>52541675
whatever dumbass. believe what you want. im outta here, love peace and chicken grease

>>52541696
At least you know when to cut your losses. Stay triggered.

>>52541401
Fair enough. Untouchable Opponent is one of the big criticisms I see, and it seems to me like it would be easy enough to fix. The wording always seemed to me like it suggested a defensive power, so just rule that it only works when you take nothing but defensive actions. Suddenly it's a staple for Dex-based defensive characters, but no longer a must-have for every fighter.

Granted, Dex itself is still disproportionately important, and I can't think of any way to deal with that particular issue.

My first character was a son of the Morrigan who was the result of a divine eugenics program to create the ultimate Titan-killer. Actually ended up being the most morally upstanding character in the Band (which consisted of a daughter of Hel who had murdered her mortal father, a renegade cop son of Anubis who had some *serious* PTSD issues, and a hedonistic glam-rock son of Tezcatlipoca). That campaign reached Demigod level before scheduling forced us to stop.

Second campaign only lasted a couple of sessions, but I had a son of Legba who was a retired New York taxi driver, long ago given up on actually doing anything worthwhile with his divinity and had decided to just be the best damn taxi driver in the city.

>>52541663
So Doctor Weird versus Forrest Gump?
...Is it bad that I want to see a party with these two interacting?

>>52539864
You actually kind of have a point. It would make more sense for clerics to use charisma

>>52541904
No. Clerics use the wisdom passed down to them from time unnumerable to do their stuff. They don't have to be charismatic in anyway at all.

>>52539864
Believing in gods isn't common sense in a world where the gods strut around and throw lightning bolts every other month?

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Accept your destiny.

>>52541712
>Dex itself is still disproportionately important, and I can't think of any way to deal with that particular issue.
Separate acrobatics/balance from hand-eye coordination/quick hands. The latter is for dex weapon aim that's equivalent to str for combat use.

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>>52541991
>Scorpio
>Wis

I do actually like Clerics a lot

>>52541779
>Doctor Weird
Actually a pretty good CN to CE high int low wis character. Somewhat random but still believes realistically in regards to obviously dangerous shit (MC Peepants)

>>52541991
>Str/Wis
Well since I can't be a cleric, as this thread has so thoroughly proven, what does that leave me as far as options? Melee ranger?

>>52542178
Monk?

>>52540026
Lel sure kiddo. Enjoy your my chemical romance and hot topic grade edgewear

>>52540077
The entire game is somewhat built around their existence--much like the existence of magic

>>52540174
Anyone with money and elementary knowledge of coding can get a game on stream

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This whole fucking thread

>>52539888

Sure, in a setting like D&D where you can literally communitcate with the Gods it makes sense.

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>>52539911
who is this jesus fellow I know only of Pelor and to a lesser extent Zarus

>>52542178
Druid is pretty sweet.

>>52542110
Doctor Weird, CE Wizard
Forrest Gump, LG Fighter

>>52542454
I'm not even sure coding is necessary anymore.

>>52541597
You need to get up North where your autistic screech can be appreciated by your fellows.

>>52541779
That would be brilliant! I'd play it.

>>52541991
>Leo
>Dex

I do enjoy playing rogues...

>>52539864
>fighter hitting things eventually gets better at hitting things
>rogue backstabbing things eventually gets better at backstabbing things
>wizard using his genius to cast magic eventually gets better at casting magic
>cleric who believes his god can grant miracles gets... better at believing in their god?
Explain this

>>52540812
>but they didnt have like streets and shit back then
wat

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>>52539974
>Not a faggot trying to live the Good Ol Days of stupid sacred cow bullshit
>d20 resolution mechanic

Jesus Christ, this thread. /tg/, what is your major fucking malfunction?
Sage it, sage it to oblivion.

Whatever Dread Thread Necromancer brought this abomination back does, in fact, need to be struck down by a sufficiently wise cleric.

This is the worst thread I've seen in ...a year or so

>>52539864

>literally an angry fedora thread because of bad steam reviews

I don't even know what's real anymore.

>>52539917
>something powerful exists
>proof of divinity
shiggydiggydoggydooladdaloo

>>52539864
"common sense" is like the exact opposite of wisdom, you nunce

>>52548246
this. this is bad even for /tg/...

Oldfag here. Sorry I'm late because I'm an oldfag.

I admit I skimmed the thread but really-really hope someone at least clarified that Wisdom in the history of D&D is a reflection of willpower, which is an extension of faith.

>>52539864
>physical prowless

>>52539974
>not a fag
but you are playing d20 modern

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>there's no cleric class analog in d20 Modern

the Acolyte Advanced Class says hi

Is it too late to say OP is a contrarian fag?

Is this some kind of retard pride parade?

>>52540899
>like how Herod died 4 years before Jesus was born
Different herods. One was uncle to the other. Antipas was the one who killed the babies and whatnot, and he was sent into exile by Caligula in AD39 after a nephew accused him of treason.

I'm always so astounded by how little fact checking "Muh biblical contradictions" officianados do. If you're gonna make claims to try and shake people's faith you gotta at least use correct information, otherwise you just look like the south end of a north-facing donkey

>>52541991
>WIS/DEX

What class am I?

>>52541226
>bible is circular logic
>"GOD EXISTS IT SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE THAT HE WROTE xD"

A book written by 40ish authors over 1500 years, and it all pretty well agrees with itself unless you have below average reading comprehension or refuse to actually acknowledge what is being said so you can misconstrue it to your own ends.

As part of this 1500 years business are segments in one book that predict events that transpired much later, in some cases as many as 4 centuries, such as the rise of Rome, that are very much checkable by historic records. We also know that these weren't added because the same passages exist in a different religion's holy book which predates these events. Jews have no vested interest in making their messianic prophecies match this Jesus figure. Nor would people have followed him or wrote accounts about him if he did not. Certainly not die for him. This goes doubly if he somehow never existed at all.

Then we have letters between members that simply don't make sense unless supernatural things were occuring. Paul's letters to the Corinthians aren't necessary unless they actually were experiencing spiritual gifts, and certain individuals were getting super pretentious about having certain gifts over others, as if that made them better people and more enlightened. If you're making up things to make you look good you don't spend 14 chapters talking about their egregious failings and how even the godless heathens seem to know how to act right more than you all. And if you're not making things up, then that must mean something freaky involving getting powers was actually happening.

Doesn't 100% FORCE the existence of God as a conclusion, but all this unexplained coincidence and supernatural events has to come from somewhere. You could go the /x/ route and say they were tapping into latent magic or something though if you really wanted. Technically both are explanations.

>>52542380
Could always go the eberron concept route

>>52540812
>but they didnt have like streets and shit back then
Wat? Rome had like, bookoo number of roads. Like, rivaled only by the US interstate number of roads. How do you think they moved all those armies?

>>52541170
>the whole concept of religion is just a gigantic pyramid sceme used to deprive people of their money?
Everything that doesn't go towards maintaining the meetinghouse our church either uses for local benevolence or benevolence abroad. We get letters from these individuals and churches, we have on a few occasion had a preacher come from there to visit and inform us of how they have grown and to show us how our support has helped them, and every 1st sunday of the year the Elders have a special service in which they show exactly how our contribution money has been spent, to ensure accountability.

So.... I disagree. There are certainly some christian churches and other religious institutions that do fit your description. I frankly hate them. They give those of us doing things right a bad name. Makes you wanna braid a leather whip and drive them outta of the temple. But I've unfortunately yet to find a better solution to the issue than rudimentary damage control, running around behind them setting the record straight while every point of contact they have with the world actively makes any evangelism I attempt that much harder because of all the misconceptions I have to address, assuming I can even get them to listen after all the harm they do.

I swear, for-profit and hate group churches are running me ragged.

>>52540855
Wisdom is awareness.

In awareness, comes common sense and decision-making, either through self-awareness or an awareness of the world around you.
But there is more to awareness than that.
It's why sense motive and perception are wisdom.
It's why monks use wisdom.
And it's why druids and cleric's use wisdom.

Wisdom is about awareness.

>>52540910
>can prove it right now.
>I just drew 666 on the bible my uncle keeps here on the computer desk with ketchup, after I said "if god exists he would smite me for doing this" and nothing bad happened .youre a fucking moron, anon.

1. You assume he cares.
2. You got lucky this time. He will. But his time is not our time. He'll probably just wait til you're dead and deal with you then like he will everyone else. Probably not for that act though, which brings us back to 1.

>>52539864
>Wisdom is a measure of common sense
But that's wrong. Wisdom is a measure of common KNOWLEDGE about your specific job. Like what you learn when you spend ten years living innawoods as a Druid, innahood as a Rogue, or innatemple as a Cleric. What Wisdom measures is how well your brain has learned to subconsciously notice the little things like signs in the wilderness, potential danger street and how exactly your god feels, things you just can't do with traditional education (INT and Knowledge).

Of course it doesn't make sense for the Cleric to be good at survival for this reason, and Wisdom should be renamed Insight or Perception or some better word that's isn't already taken, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

>>52550298
Demon/Dark Souls called the Cleric stat "Faith" instead.

>>52550319
That's much better.
If I every introduce a houserule fixing this, I might use Faith as an all-purpose willpower counter too.

>>52540821
+1

This is why I love you, /tg/

>>52539864
It is common sense to believe in something that does exist. You have to be extremely low-wis to not believe in gods in, say, Faerun.

>>52540632
Because new people to the thread are obviously going to respond to the OP and tell you you're retarded. If you want discussion, be organized and put your thoughts in the prominently displayed post, rather than all over the fucking place with a completely irrelevant, troll OP. You are inadvertently bait-and-switching and getting upset when people fall for it.

OP are you Chris-chan?

So what's so bad about d20 modern? I've read a lot of hate for it, but nothing specific?

I'm always fascinated by people like OP. Why do they choose to get so angry, and then choose to get into these huge arguments with strangers on the internet about it. I'll admit, sometimes when I read something on here that really upsets me for one reason or another, maybe I'll say something. But then I move on, I read other threads, maybe I tell a friend about it if it really annoys me, but then I drop it. I've never once gotten in a huge internet fight like OP is, CAPSLOCKing his way to victory against people with the wrong opinion. Why do people choose to spend their time an energy like this?

>>52539911
Jesus definitely existed, you inbred halfwit. The dispute is over the whole "literally God" thing. We could argue day in and day out over whether Jesus was divine, but the evidence that he was an actual person is pretty much irrefutable.

As for the existence of God, the necessity of a prime mover proves that well enough.

/tg/ gets trolled

>>52539864
that's why i prefer faith or will

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>>52539864

>>52549116

Is the 'Father' he's talking about actually a d20 modern class? That seems a bit too tied to a particular faith to feel real.

In my homebrew I switched cleric classes into CHA based. WIS based for the natural classes (Druid, Ranger).

This entire thread is a modern art masterpiece.

>>52539864
>not having a good set of values and some rites to support virtuous lifestyle is good common sense
Atheism is for dimwits.

>>52550897
Last time I heard Chris-Chan was a member of a highly liberal American baptist sort of church. The fact that he didn't actualy know shit about anything in the Bible to a quite frankly astounding degree is irrelevant to the fact that he wouldn't be a hat tipper so much as an insufferable pillok.

Although I think his church did kick him out, the final straw being sexually deviant behavior. She must have seen the JULAAAAAAYYY! videos as well as the drinking his own semen so as not to deplete his supply videos. This was the woman who, out of the kindness of her heart, paid his bail.

>>52553365
And people claim comedy can't be art.

This thread has been pure awesome.

>>52539864
I think "Wisdom" is more a catch-all term for the personality types and brain functions that don't fall under "Smart" or "Personable".

I characterize it as sorta a Yoda-like mysticism.

>>52539864
>Clerics with Wisdom
>not Faith
What garbage setting is this?

>>52539911
>THE CAT IN SHRODINGER'S BOX IS DEAD, DEAD, DEAD AND ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS AN IDIOT EEEE

>>52541577
Have a nice nap dude. Overall I'd give your posts a solid 6/10. Way too obvious, but I still had fun anyway. A bit of subtlety might go a long way next time.

>>52539864
>wisdom
>common sense
Triple lmao, senpai

>all this shitposting in my thread
>the lack of just proper discussion into why WIS should be replaced with FAITH or have common sense tied to INT instead
>all these people who just spend their time shitting on me and my games because they're sercrety jealous that i can make something with my own two hands thats pretty damn good while theyre stuck with shitty gayhawk modules and "eBURron"
>they will never know the joys of creating anything meaningful in their entire lives
I would pitty you but you guys just bring this on yourself.

>>52540032
First reply best reply

>>52555338
Would be if OP didnt prove that the bible is false in the thread that you didn't read.

>>52550376
Idiot.

Powerful supernatural beings are not gods. Divinity is a title bestowed on something by man, it is not and cannot be an inherent quality of the thing. Just because some asshole who can shoot lightning created the planet you're on doesn't make him a god.

>>52539911
>Prove me 1 instance of jesus being real.
>Almost every historian worth their salt admit he existed
This is what happens when you have low WIS.

>>52555871
Yeah you're right, with low WIS historians believe the stupiest shit. And with low WIS ignoramus ignorant hateful people believe it. And with low WIS these same people vote a man who's going to doom our planet into office. And with low WIS these same people fight with every fibre of their being to continue to spread this arrogant ingorant hateful message.

Just. Stop.

>>52555906
Wow you're a real faggot aren't you leeeeeel

>>52555933
>call an idiot out on his idiocy
>he devolves into *autistic screeching*
Not surprised one bit.

>>52541285
>god forsaken thread
So you admit there is a god to forsake the thread in the first place

My question is why Clerics are Wisdom and not Charisma if they're currying favor with gods?

>>52556180
Its a figure of speech. But you're too stupid to be able to realize that, and youre literally grasping for straws so whatever

>>52556213
Clerics would make more sense as a CHA based class, forsaking INT and WIS to delude themselves into power, much like sorcerers who also rely on cha.

>>52539864
>the fighter and the barbarian rely on their strength. strength is the measure of their physical prowless.
Okay.
>the rogue and the ranger rely on their dexterity. Dexterity represents their hand-eye coordination and finesse
Sure.
>The wizard relies on his intellect. Intellect is the measurement of one's knowledge.
Makes sense.
>The cleric relies on his wisdom. Wisdom is a measure of common sense.
Why not.
>The sorcerer relies on his charisma. Charisma is the measure of one person beauty.
>The sorcerer casts spells because he is pretty.
now hold up just a god damn minute

>>52556294
Hey man if you don't believe in it so much when why use figures of speech that imply god exists?

>>52555906
>every credible historian are stupid because they believe a man named Jesus really existed in the ME following historical evidence
Kill yourself you fucking retard.

>>52556311
Charisma is force of personality, it has nothing to do with physical appearance

>>52556362
lel that's what ugly people say to themselves to sleep at night

>>52556335
It's not supposed to imply he exists. Only a lowly tiny brained idiot would believe he actually does, because they have (you have) no fucking sense of reality around you and youre afraid of dying because youre pathetic and contribute nothing to society.

>>52556338
Your post doesn't even make sense you are so stupid. Freeze bleach in the freezer and powder it and snort it.

>>52555906
i can't tell if your joking or not. It is understandable that jesus as a man existed in times of the romans. Now i won't say that he had magical powers and shit. But he did exist and had a following. Such as Mohammed existed.

>>52540718
I see, so this is a low level type of shitposting

>>52541696
says he only pretending to be retarded, someone calls him out, and he proceeds to get angry.

Yep that means he is pretending guys. he wins

In any setting where clerics exist, divine magic is a scientifically-verifiable phenomenon. Its connection to belief is also scientifically verifiable. In those settings, anyone who doesn't believe is the equivalent of a flat-earther or antivaxxer.

tl/dr, wise folks believe in Gods, fools don't, and OP needs to climb a wall of cocks.

>>52559751
see
>>52555726

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>>52541597

>>52540489
You da real mvp.

this is the worst bait thread I've ever seen in my life

ITT: OP decides to use magic and clerics in a modern world with no gods, and bitches because a class that uses divine powers worships a divine being.

>Braindead

>guy asks for an opinion on something
>gets trolled to oblivion
this is why I hope japmoot will delete this shitty board.

>>52559983
I can say blue is the color that appears between red and yellow, but that doesn't mean I'm right.

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>>52541561
I've been here for almost six-seven years, and I think I may agree. Rarely does a thread this shitty come along, and get this many replies without getting derailed into something good. Pic related: its rather fitting in this case.

Rule 7 says that we can't announce that we've "saged" a thread. Even if we have. I doesn't say anything about herbs though.

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>>52539864
>this fucking thread

I'm not religious, and have never even used the reddit-tier le fedora meme, but THIS FUCKING THREAD...

You guys have problems.
Serious problems.

Ok, here we go: THIS IS A GODDAMN GAME, ok?
Not reality.
While you can use common sense in a game, you shouldn't, I repeat YOU SHOULDN'T overthink stuff like this.

Relax.
Go outside - just a little bit.
Enjoy life more.
Drink a beer or a little wine.

You know what? You want an asnwer for the topic of this cancerous thread?

All right. Here's your bloody answer:
Wisdom in RPGs are like the wisdom of the "mysterious asian kung fu master" , aka fortune cookie wisdom.
That's fucking it.
There's your answer, you son of a mother.
Happy now?

Now get the fuck outta here!

>>52552337
Neither class is official, the closest to "Street Shaman" I've been able to find a Shaman advanced class in D20 Past.

>>52539864
I too would believe and worship gods if they were objectively real in the setting, don't see the point of your argument.