Is it right to kill a PC if it's against my character morality

>>52536928
I'd say it was justifiable. He was intentionally being a dick for no reason. I'd say the DM is partially to blame as well for letting things get that far.

>>52536928
The other guy's PC had a blatant disregard for human life and seemed immeasurably casual about being a jerk around others. It was clear this PC didn't play well with others and didn't care, so it should come to no surprise other people would get sick of it and ice him.

I don't blame you. Though I know I'd hate to be in this kind of situation. This stuff always leads to people fuming at the table.

>>52536928
>he decided to prove a point by going slaying people across the street.
Right here it became just and fair.

>>52536928
Kill that bitch.

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Why did you not just knock him out and turn him in?

>>52536928
DM's fault, you should never allow conflicting aligments/motivations/codes/philosophies for non-one-shot games. Also, DM should declare (or work with the players if he knows they behave like adults) expectations, etiquette and norms of conduct before the campaign.

>>52537109
>you should never allow conflicting aligments/motivations/codes/philosophies
No, the GM shouldn't allow conflicting agendas of this magnitude.

Players with criss-crossing agendas can be really fun and add some good drama. A character hiding an important item from the rest of the party because it serves her personal goals better is fun. But murdering people on the street just to prove a point to the party Paladin is garbage and is more of an issue with the player than with conflicting personalities.

>>52536928
>Is it right to kill a PC if it's against my character morality to let him live?
>My character is Good and another PC is Evil.
>Being good I
Irrelevant faggotry.

>murdered an entire family so he could steal a heirloom
>I told him he was a murderer and that he would have to pay for this later. He then mocked me, told I needed him alive because he was the thief
>He then murders another family, now because he didn't want to pay to rent a horse. I told him it was now too much, but he told me that he would do whatever he want. DM told us to stop, but he decided to prove a point by going slaying people across the street.
>So was killing him justifiable? Because I don't see how DM wanted my character to work with someone who casually murdered innocents.
What a cunt. How badly did you need him alive to stop the other villain?

In any case, we can all agree the DM handled the campaign poorly.

>>52537109
I can agree that it depends on the magnitude, still think is DM's fault in this situation though

>>52537203
>DM handled the campaign poorly.
this, I fucking hate playing with randos

>>52536997
Yes. He got pretty pissed I killed his character. He kept shouting he was just roleplaying an evil thief and that as such he had to mock the good guys. Still, I would expect him to know better than casually kill innocents in front of me.

>>52537106
I made him go under 0 and he failed to save. Keep in mind we fought for a few rounds, he stabbed me with his dagger and then I hit him with my claymore. He simply broke.

Besides, if I knocked him out and handed him to authorities... actually the DM would pull some bullshit reason to free him, but wouldn't he normally be hanged for serial killing?

>>52537203
He was the party thief, so I would say kinda important.

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>>52537280
>I made him go under 0 and he failed to save.

Jeez, what system is this again?

>>52537280
>Says he was just roleplaying
>Is mad at you for roleplaying
I believe you may have found the sadly not-rare That Guy in the wild.

>>52537332
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/UA:Death_and_Dying

I sent him to like -7 or -8 and he couldn't roll the required fortitude.

>>52536928
You do not need to justify why you kill a person that killing other to get what they wanted when there were other means. You are in the clear. He murdered and you told him to stop, but then he get a boner for that and try to tease you more.

>>52537280
Hopefully next time he won't try to play such a turboedge character and go for a more low key kind of Evil.

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>>52537393
>-7 or -8

>With this variant, characters can't be reduced to negative hit points - 0 is the maximum.

>>52538114
Well, we played with hitpoints going under 0 since the beginning. DM probably read it wrong then or is using something else.

>>52536928
>it's what my character would do
>oh yeah, and this is what my character would do

Indeed, the fault is with the DM for allowing such conflicting characters in the first place, and then not dishing out consequences for the dickass. You really should not do that with players you don't have experience with.

>>52538577
I agree.

However, now thinking deeper, would a neutral character be okay with the evil character randomly slaying people?

Because even if he lacks empathy for those killed, isn't it asking for trouble? I'm pretty sure the entire town guard would jump on our backs if I hadn't cut him down.

>>52538800
I think even some evil characters would be pissed about random murderhoboing without real profit.

>>52536928
Absolutely justified, though it sounds like you have a standard retarded doormat DM with a fragile inflexible railroad plot who doesn't give a shit about the players and it's really their fault for allowing this sort of situation to happen

Players who get their jollies by killing random peasants are fucking cancer anyway, I expect that player to be complete shit whether they be a lolrandumb chaotic neutral or a Lawful Stupid paladin

>>52538800
Let's not turn this into an alignment discussion.

What you're describing is a pragmatic character, which is hardly related to any of the nine alignment points.

>>52538878
Basically. There's a difference between evil and retardation.

I mean, committing a triple homicide for the rent on a horse? I think any DM worth their shit would use that as the world's most convenient reason to fuck that party to hell.

>>52538878
Next session is a closed box what will happen. I'm pretty sure the town guard will probably hold us and interrogate us over what happened. Maybe he convinced the thief to roll a new character.

Or maybe DM will retcon this entire situation.

>>52539130
Pick a god and start praying that second option happens.

>>52539188
Then kill the thief again when he starts being a faggot

>>52536928
>Is it right to kill a PC if it's against my character morality to let him live?

Yes.

>the DM

Wait, I thought you were the DM.

>>52539274
I mean... hopefully dude learned their lesson. Right?

>>52537280
> He kept shouting he was just roleplaying an evil thief and that as such he had to mock the good guys.
What a hypocritical cunt.

>>52536928
As a general rule, if you're killing each other in a cooperative game, at least one of you are doing it wrong. In this case, I blame the other guy, but moreso the DM for allowing the situation.

>>52539384
Hopefully.

>>52539385
Relying on that "I was just roleplaying" crutch is retarded IMO. The good guy can also say he was roleplaying when he kills the bad guy.

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>>52536928
DM's fault for enabling That Guy.

You did the right thing OP.

>>52539274
>>52539384
I'm not sure. He seems to be the vindictive type. After he was dead he also shouted I cheated because I had the first attack. Better watch my back if he is back.

>>52539552
Even if he makes a new character, he seems like the sort of autistic shitstain that holds a grudge.

I don't want to jinx your game or anything, but.... I mean, this might get worse before it gets better, ya know?

>>52539552
Maybe remind him it's just a game. You were playing a good character and it was 'his' duty to stop that rampaging lunatic.

>>52539552
Sounds like you need a new DM if he lets him back in the campaign just to attack you.

>>52539578
Yeah, I will also prepare for that. Hopefully DM will contain him this time.

I've been there.
Don't allow the GM to retcon or make the thief roll another character, people like him are a problem and will sooner or later fuck with the campaign.
If the DM doesn't listen simply get out and look for another table, it's not worth wasting time with this kind of people.

>>52539627
Just don't let "that guy" get you down. If it stops being fun because of him, it's just a game.

That is also true. Sounds like the game can turn sour if that guy keeps being that guy and the DM continues to enable him. Not a lot you can do in that case - but at least it came to a head early, right?

If he starts being a shitheel again just kill him. Again.

>>52539826
At some point that just becomes a bigass pvp match with nothing getting done and the party eventually boots one or both of them.

100% justifiable. Neutral, lawful, or chaotic good would all agree that it was a good idea.

>>52536928
It's only okay to kill a PC if you have established beforehand that you are going to come to blows and might even kill each other.

In no other situation is killing another player character a good thing to do.

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>>52536928
In your case, I am suspecting that you and the GM have had a miscommunication, because you might not have told him that your character was one who is on the furthest end of the good spectrum and doesn't allow murder to happen.

In most cases, having a good aligned PC and having an evil one is a recipe for disaster, especially if the Evil character does not portray his character good enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-0hgP1tNH8

>>52540250
>the furthest end of the good spectrum
You don't need to be anywhere NEAR the furthest end to not accept lolrandom asshole murdering people for petty reasons. Arguably, as >>52538800 points out, you don't even need to be good to find that shit completely unacceptable for a number of reasons.

>>52536928
Completely justified. DM sounds completely neutered about the situation. If he assured that "there would be no problem" you can only assume he means that he has no problem with you roleplaying and killing a PC due to this interparty conflict that he allowed to be born.

>>52540355
I agree: that guy was causing harm to the party by killing all those unrelated people and should've stopped when OP started calling him a dick for it. (I'm paraphrasing: I don't know if OP actually called him that, I am just conveying a point)

So if he were a good player, he would've stopped and killed people in a gruesome fashion only when it was more appropriate.

The best Evil characters, are those that do not harm/offend the party. Physically or Mentally.

>>52539953
Alignment shmalignment, anyone with more than 3INT would agree cutting the thief out is a good idea

Trying to complete a quest with some fucking lunatic who murders civilians for 3 gp? You could be Chaotic Evil orcish assassins scouting the town for pillaging and this faggot would STILL be a hindrance to your mission.

>>52536928
The "heroes have to work together to stop the bigger villain" works only if the evil character isn't laughably stupid like yours was. There's plenty of ways to be evil and self-serving that doesn't involve murdering innocents.

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>>52536928
Is it right to kill a PC if it's against my character morality to let him live?
My character is Evil and another PC is Good. Before the start we predicted it would end in crap, but the DM insisted there was no problem. Basically he made a story where all the heroes have to work together to stop the bigger villain. Okay.
Then the good PC murdered an entire family so he could steal a heirloom. Being evil I told him he was a murderer and that he would have to pay for this later. He then mocked me, told I needed him alive because he was the thief. My character got this close to cut him down in that moment but the DM told us both to can it... which doesn't change my character witnessed a triple murder (one being a child).
He then murders another family, now because he didn't want to pay to rent a horse. I told him it was now too much, but he told me that he would do whatever he want. DM told us to stop, but he decided to prove a point by going slaying people across the street.
I lost my patience and told him I would attack him. DM said that I shouldn't, I told him I just did and rolled my dice. I hit him and took a good chunk. He fought back and in the end I killed his PC.
So was killing him justifiable? Because I don't see how DM wanted my character to work with someone who casually murdered innocents.

>>52540836
I don't get it.

>>52540836
Did you smoke something anon?

>>52540836
Anon, you are either high or you are very bad in making a point.

>>52540125
What do you mean? Like before the game?

You might as well say that the player of the retarded thief should've asked the other players before the game if they were okay with him murdering random families in front of the good characters and then rubbing it in their faces.

>>52536928
>be paladin
>kill serial killer outlaw to stop a rampage
>fall because he was needed to save the world
Foiled again!

>>52541093
Considering it was party thief paladin could just kick a door to some pub at night and go on a recruiting spree. "You are going to save the world, and you are going to save the world, and you are too going to save the world! Anyone who is against saving the world will be checked by me for evilness through most reliable methods."

The only excuse this idiot has is if he was playing a fucking psychopath, and even then, why in the fuck would he even choose to roleplay that?

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>>52541406

On top of that, he was a shitty fucking thief if he needed to kill literally anyone who had something he wanted.

>oh no, a regular civilian family
>better murder them all because I'm as clever and as stealthy as a drunk ogre
>heirloom get
>fuck I'm a great thief

>>52541524
Kek.

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>>52537280
>He kept shouting he was just roleplaying an evil thief and that as such he had to mock the good guys.
He was role-playing a problematic, murdering dick antagonizing the party and causing trouble.
Once again, pic related.
GM gets equal blame for allowing the bs and expecting the paladin not role-play a paladin despite the murderer role-playing a murderer.

>>52536928
If you're expected to curb your character's inherent urge to smite, then the thief's player should be expected to curb his character's tendency to be a dick. Preventing PC on PC violence is a group affair.

>>52541686
>despite the murderer role-playing a murderer.
... any small animals gone missing in your neighbourhood recently OP?

>>52541686
This pic says it all. Saved.

>>52536928
If his Thief had to kill dozens of people just to steal a singular item from untrained, illiterate peasants, then he was a shitty thief in addition to being a cunt.

Good Paladin-work, OP. The gods smile upon your justice.

>>52536928
evil in a party can work
but by all means this is not how. you have all rights to kill the fucker.
his actions are just the actions of a psychopath, not of one whom wants to stop a bigger evil.

the only way I can think of at the moment to justify an evil character is by;
1)playing him as a "for the greater good" type.

2)playing him as someone super loyal or whom has even befriended the party or one of it's members.

3)evil character on the road to salvation as he slowly leaves the path of evil.

>>52540482
>The best Evil characters, are those that do not harm/offend the party. Physically or Mentally.
Does that include making jokes about the ranger screwing his animal companion? 'Cause my evil character does that a lot.

>>52542767
Depends on how obviously intimate the ranger is with their animals. Also how snarky/sarcastic your character is when mocking them. Playful banter is one thing. Publix accusation and humiliation is going to stir up trouble.

>>52537109

Just because you are evil, doesn't mean that you go around murdering everybody you ever meet. This is just bad roleplaying.

>>52542767
Does it make the character's player laugh? If so, ANYTHING is fair game. General rule of IC comedy.

>>52542767
That's not evil, and not even good characters have to be nice.

>>52542767
What kind of animal companion? This is relevant to the types of jokes. In the unlikely event that the's the fantasy equivalent of a Welshman with a sheep companion then all jokes are safe, regardless of quality. They would also most likely be true.

>>52536928

Even playing as an evil character, I would have seen his actions as bringing too much bad press and attention to the party. He's a liability. I would have murdered him in his sleep.

>>52540482
I was taught that it's up to you to keep the game going. No matter how dickass a thief you are playing, YOU have to explain why or how he doesn't provoke the paladin into turning him in or arranging a field execution. Of course, the paladin player is also expected to cooperate, but it's clear that in this case the thief didn't just refuse to cooperate, but went out of his way to antagonise the paladin. So fuck 'im.

Cast a geas on the character.

>>52536928
Your dm was a dick. I always tell my party I'll run a campaign for any alignment as long as the party reaches consensus before the campaign on what type of campaign they want to play.

"It was all a dream".

The other player was roleplaying his PC, but then again so were you, so you were justified in your actions.

The one truly at fault here was your DM. He should have known this sort of thing was going to happen and took steps to prevent it, instead of just going "stahp it gaiz" whenever it flared up. What the hell did he think was going to happen allowing this sort of thing?

>>52536928
You did the right thing. If he really wanted to be an evil theif he would kill innocents without you knowing. It may be in character for him to be a murderer, but it's not in character for a criminal to repeatedly commit crimes in front of someone who they need to cooperate with and know will react poorly.

If you attacked him the very first time he did something I'd say you went too far. But he killed two families including children and insulted you to boot.

>>52543079
the other PC was also at fault
its your obligation to make a character that at least has a chance of functioning in the type of campaign you're playing
if you want to play as a psychopath who kills villagers for fun, maybe save it for when you're a party of barbarians come to loot and pillage the countryside

>>52542843
>>52542861
>>52542921
>>52542932
To be honest, it wasn't a very serious question. Pretty much every character in the party either detest and constantly insult the others, or are too dim to participate. The only PC death so far happened due to infighting. It's, uh, not so much an evil campaign as a dysfunctional one.

Oh, and the companion is a giant badger.

>>52536928
Deus Vult!

>>52536928
Yeah. As a cost/benefit analysis, you're sacrificing one life for rescuing countless potential others. It's not even because of his previous crimes that killing him is justifiable, it's because you know he will repeat them until he is stopped somehow. It's regretful that you couldn't find a better way to stop him, but you couldn't, so you did the best/most Good you could.

It would help your PCs Goodness rating to at least take pity on a man who is so misguided that they murder for personal gain, and regret that they could not have lived a better life. But I like bleeding heart Good so that's only my opinion.

>>52543674
>If only he used his powers for good
But to be fair this thief sounds like a moron. Like >>52541524 said.

>>52543112
Unless the thief had "complete lack of self-preservation" as a character trait, I'd question whether repeatedly doing horribly evil things in front of a heavily armed good person, continuing even after they take issue with it, counts as "just roleplaying the PC".

>>52543760
Good people don't kill other people just because they're morons. In any case it's still justifiable.

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>>52536928
You did good, soldier. In the age before implanted bombs a sword to the head was the way to keep the Suicide Squad on task.

>>52538431

Shit that never happened. :)

>>52536928
Yeah, you're totally justified killing him. If he was really your friend, he would have at least tried to hide his crimes. But if he just flaunts them in front of you, he deserves to die.

Anyway, why was he adventuring with you? How did his goals line up with yours? This sounds like the work of a weakass GM who can't keep his players in line, i.e. can't say no to "that guy."

>>52546354
Another option, if you can't kill him due to his skills, is to cripple him. Chop off one of his feet. He won't be murdering any families if he can barely make it to the door.

>>52546392
Go a step further, cut off his legs. Make it so that he is totally dependent on the party to do his job and that his job is the only thing he is capable of doing.

>>52536928
The only thing I don't understand is why the thief didn't just do all that without letting the rest of the party know, in-character.

Terrible character and a terrible GM. You really ought to consider ditching the group. I'm sure you'll agree at least after next session when garbage GM makes your paladin fall.

The only requirement I've ever needed to keep any kind of character in line is they need ADVENTURE to be priority number 1. LG or CE come second. If a character wants to strap a baby goblin to their back and keep adventuring, that's fine. If they want to murder a family and risk imprisonment or execution, they're risking adventure's priority spot and need to be 'retired.'

>>52546904
Edgelords gotta edgelord.

I feel like either OP isn't telling the whole story or OP doesn't know the whole story in this situation. I cant imagine why someone would just randomly kill an entire family over what? A few silver for boarding a horse? And you said he stole a family heirloom. Was it important to the plot? I feel like we are missing a lot of context here.

>>52548171
Because murderhobo.

>>52548171
>I cant imagine why someone would just randomly kill an entire family over what? A few silver for boarding a horse?
edgelords are real, and their actions are always stupid

>>52537280
Ha the thief important

>>52536928
>Is it right to kill a PC if it's against my character morality to let him live?
Yes.

>Is it right to create a character whose morality clashes so much with another PC that you have no choice but to kill them?
No.

>>52543674
Well trying to lecture him resulted in a rampage so... yeah.

Even if he was incapacitated he would probably be executed by the guard. Unless the DM pulled something of course.

>>52544596
We did have a confrontation before where a player got to -4 and another to -2. DM made them roll from that number.

>>52546354
Basically the DM character, a famous and wise wizard, told us that he had a vision: that we were the heroes destined to save the world from a great evil (yeah it's cliche). His character replied he only loved money, to which the wizard promised a bounty in gold worth of a king when the evil was defeated.

>>52546904
>>52548171
Basically we were walking through the forest, it was getting late and we decided to stop and rest. We saw one of those mansions in the middle of the woods and went there for shelter.

The owner inside received us pretty well, mostly because we were carrying the symbol of the wizard. He had a wife and a small daughter. They gave us food and offered us rooms. In the wall there was a crest made of gold and rubies. We then later went to rest.

So the thief decided to snap the crest. He went downstairs and picked it. Then a player on the table said that the owner wasn't retarded and he would notice the crest missing on the wall, especially since our PCs were still sleeping there. So the thief decided to 'erase the witnesses'.

He went upstairs and slashed the husband throat while sleeping. When he was going to kill the woman however he failed the roll, resulting in wounding but not killing her. She shouted.

He quickly killed her and went to the children room. The daughter had awoken (as everyone else) and he also killed her before the PCs could intervene.

When confronted, he explained that now that they were dead we were now free to loot the mansion. Me as the most tight character snarked the most, the other PCs also disapproved of it. But yes, then he and the neutrals pillaged it.

Next: horse

>>52546904
>>52548171

So the horse.

We had came into a city. Our next target was another city, which was far from there. We decided to rent some horses to make the trip faster.

The thief opposed however. He said he wasn't parting with his money. No problem, we would pay for him. But then he suggested we should steal the horses.

Before he could however I took the initiative and went inside to negotiate with the owner. He followed me. I started negotiating horse price and he kept staring, until the owner turned his back. He suddenly backstabbed him.

My PC shouted of course, which resulted in his wife coming down to see. He then jumped and slaughtered her too.

He said that we should pick the horses and run away before the guard came. I said that no, that now he had went too far. We then started arguing, and then he decided to go and kill random people in the street to prove 'Nobody controlled him'.

>>52551245
>Even if he was incapacitated he would probably be executed by the guard. Unless the DM pulled something of course.
I think the DM would've came up with something that would've resulted with him getting off scot free. After all, he was the hero of destiny and he had the symbol of the wizard, so there's no way the guards could execute him. Or something along those lines.

>>52551303
Yes. Then in a way I think it was good I killed him. It would be very unfair to people if he was let scot-free over serial killing because 'the prophecy demands it.'

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>>52536928
Now I want to play a character who is a psychopath, patological maniac killer in an evil party...

>>52551338
No problem in an evil party.

Except the other evil guys thinking you are going to kill them for their bling.

>>52551346
Good thing I play with people whi can portray evil characters well, then. We follow the tenants of: all the evil we do, we do to NPCs. Because we aren't dicks.

>>52551346
I don't know, it sounds like it could be kind of hard to enjoy booze and whores when one of your friends is constantly murdering everyone and you have to sleep in a forest while running away from knights.

>>52551368
That's also true.

>>52551363
As long as they aren't stupid either that should be fine.

>>52551245
>>52551294
Have your character convince the others that the thief is attracting to much attention. Then murder him in his sleep and dump his body in a ditch. Once that is done, find the player with the firmest grip and slap the shit out of the thieve's player. If he gives you any other trouble, throw that fucker out!

>>52551368
I wouldn't kill everyone. The party is off limits, for example. As are the NPCs that the party finds useful: it would mean harm to the party if they were to die, so they won't. Until they become useless, that is.

Yes, playing an evil character means you have to be good... as a player.

>>52536928
Normally I'd say killing another PC is absolutely not justifiable unless it's done with the consent of the other player. Your character's morality is completely irrelevant. I don't care what the in-character reasoning is, this is a communal activity and you're obliged to make sure it's fun for everyone. That means working together to overcome in-character disagreements.

However the other player was clearly not willing to do so. So fuck the cunt.

>>52536928

He was clearly trying to push his luck and start a fight by ICly antagonising other PCs

You clearly did your best to de-escalate the scenario but if he's gonna deliberately cause party conflict he should deal with the consequences

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>>52536928
"You have chosen this path, life works in strange ways. Your choices have clearly lead you here, as have mine. I will give you a new choice. Leave here now and live, or stay and face your destiny"

He chose his own fate when he flaunted his crimes in front of a character who could beat him.

>>52536928
Yeah it's pretty sad. Especially since you said that the whole plot was a prophecy, so most likely the DM will try to railroad harder and potentially bring the thief back to life because the prophecy said they all have to beat the villain. There could still be ways to continue it and still uphold the prophecy in a fun way but I doubt the DM will know enough or care enough to do so.

>>52555636
Clearly the solution is to have the thief turned into a flesh golem. Prophecy fulfilled.

>>52536928
When the DM said that you shouldn't attack the guy, you should've asked if this is the direction that he wants the campaign to go in. If he said yes, then you should have asked to make a new character that fits better.

>>52558559
Something like that. Though an idea for a cheesy option I had would be something like the villain is a wizard, and when the party almost finishes him off, he teleports to another plane of existence to escape. The plane that just so happens to house the souls of evil dead such as the thief. Right next to him, to be precise.

>>52542960
>I would have murdered him in his sleep.
this.
he's bringing the locals & whatever authorities exist down on the party:they won't bother that it was just him, they'll hang you all.

>>52551245
wait... he didn't fuck the woman throat the throat slit, didn't spitlube anal rape the little girl? What a shitty edgelord.

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>>52536928
Let's be clear. There is a smart, sensible and proper way to play a really evil character in something that isn't an all evil campaign, and this particular thief was about as far away from that as possible.

This sort of player, who exists only on the kindness and laxity of a weak GM, gives evil a bad name, so to speak.

You did the right thing showing him the error of his ways, and putting him out of his misery. One can only hope his retardation wasn't contagious.

My only advice is to find a game with better players and a better GM. Rules and settings do matter, but they pale in importance in comparison to the actual people involved in running and playing the game. Find quality people and you'll never lack for a fun game.

>any gm
>doesn't immediately send a killsquad to deal with "that guy's" character

>>52539578
> makes new character
> your character takes his new one aside
> 'now before you get any crazy ideas...'
> 'this here claymore? it literally exploded the last guy who thought it'd be funny to go on a murder spree ''''just because''''...'
> 'just a friendly heads-up'
Now the player has literally no excuse to be surprise if he's attacked for being a psychopath

>>52542541
not even that
an evil dude can just as easily be questing with a bunch of good guys to get the bounty of a known criminal or because that dragon is fucking with his business' profits.
to many people think evil means being a dick or a psychopath when at it's essence it's just only caring about yourself

>>52536998
this

>>52536928

You warned him now go on and slay him