Who looks more wounded? A person with 5/10 HP, or a person

>>52535943
One is missing half of one's body, there is just a head and a pair of shoulders
(Because dwarf fortress logic)

>Someone who has half of themselves missing.
>Someone who has 1/10th of themselves remaining.
You tell me.

>50% hp vs 10%

Really makes me think

>>52535998
>>52536002
That's not how HP works.

>>52535943
Take in mind HP isn't literal meat points. It basically represents how much longer you can fight because of a mixture of plot magic, sheer physical endurance and skill, and THEN possibly meat points

>>52536130
So the 10/100 is still in better shape than the 5/10 guy, but the 5/10 guy has been doing a better job of wearing down his superior opponent?

>>52536163
Oh, are the two supposed to be fighting? Well then I'd ask how the hell they reached that situation on the first place. But yeah, that should be the gist of it

>>52535943
Neither are "wounded," but I'd say the 10/100 would look more exhausted. That said, if they both took the same 6 damage hit, we know who would go down.

IE a master barely standing can still take more than the winded student.

>>52535943
One of my character concepts was that my character had a glass chin, and his HP was representative of his 'luck' points, where instead of damage taken I would swing out of the way just in time and if I hit 0 HP that would indicate when the enemy finally caught up to me and one hit KO'd or killed me.

I thought it was a fun, wonky idea but my DM said nuh-uh.

>>52536199
I dunno, I'm not OP. I was just trying to visualize your interpretation.

>>52536245
>a master barely standing can still take more than the winded student.
I also agree with Confucius over here.

>>52536245
>>52536293
But who is the student and who is the master?
Did the master just dump all of his points into CON?

Depends on the system. 1 hp is still technically fine if a game treats hp as nothing more than a number.

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>>52535943
>Implying hit points aren't an abstract "ability to survive" stat
Both of them are unharmed, one has just burned through 90% of his "dumb luck" and the other through 50%.

>>52536445
I think the implication is that the master has 100 HP and the "barely standing" qualifier is in reference to him having burned through 90% of his total stack. I reached that conclusion based on the first statement that 6 HP would not kill the 10/100 guy but would finish off the 5/10 guy.

>>52535993
Dwarf Fortress doesn't have hit points baka

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>>52535943
whichever ones playing the special snowflake little girl you're expected to protect no matter how disgusting their player is.

The 10/100 HP guy is clearly more heavily wounded, but he also seems to be bearing it better and so he looks like he could probably keep fighting longer than the 5/10 HP guy.

>>52535943
Depends on the player of the characters', and how they choose to describe their characters as looking.

Hit points are not necessarily meat points and haven't been since 3rd Edition.

>>52535943
Looks more, the 10/100. He has far more cuts and bruises and therefore looks worse for wear. The 5/10 one is more winded and probably has one nice size bruise and looks like an easier kill. He isn't holding up his arms as well, his sight is getting more blurry and he is gulping down air so fast that he can barely move.

It's the difference between a sorely wounded professional soldier and minorly wounded fatguy. Soldier may look worse, but he still has a lot more left then the crying fatboy.

>>52536758
>Hit points are not necessarily meat points and haven't been since 3rd Edition.

They haven't been since 1st Edition.

>>52535943
> HP are the number of hits one can take, not a generalised stat for health as percentage/plot armour
> this fucking meme again

>>52536597
It does, in a way - hp in df would show how much of your body is left.

>>52536817
They were never meat points. It has been that way since the beginning. Retarded autists on /tg/ just don't seem to get it.

>>52536955
They've always been meat points. That's why monsters are given more got points when they advance size categories.

The whole "abstraction" thing is a meme to make DND look like a less shitty system.

>>52537035
>They've always been meat points.
Go on...

>That's why monsters are given more got points when they advance size categories.

But, that's wrong. There are smaller creatures with more HP than larger creatures, and them getting more HP as they advance size categories is correlation, not causation.

>The whole "abstraction" thing is a meme to make DND look like a less shitty system.

Ah. It's this "HP Bloat" idiot coming out of the woodwork again just to show everyone how stupid he is, and how his personal misconceptions are somehow more important than what the books actually say.
Take a hike, kid.

> 5/10 vs 1/10
Or
>0.5 vs 0.1
Dunno man

Read the descriptions of King Conan in practically any of Robert E Howard's books.

There's always a fight scene where Conan is sweaty and bleeding and his armor is beat up but he's fighting with the strength of a fucking pissed tiger (or other large jungle cat.) That's the abstraction that HP are trying to define.

So character B in OP's example might be more "wounded," but is also stronger.

>>52535943
Probably the 5/10 guy, I imagine part of having a larger number of hit points is being better able to push through the pain from injuries and fatigue without being debilitated.

>>52537420
The second guy has twice as many hit points as the first.

>>52535943
>Who looks more wounded?
>A person with 5/10 HP, or a person with 10/100?
Depends on the system. For example, if incapacitation starts at 0 HP and death at -10 HP, then the logic you are presenting makes no sense.

>>52535943
They're both the same, the amount of HP is irrelevant. So long as you have 1 HP your still in the fight and can potentially win.

>>52535943

Neither are wounded at all, until they hit 0 HP, where they spontaneously cease to function.

>>52535943
>>52540165
>>52540148
>quantum wounds
>they may or may not exist until your character hits 0 HP

>>52540292
No, they exist. The wounds just don't become important until you hit the point at which your character is unable to act.

>>52535943
It's another HP bait thread. I'm gonna take the bait, and reverse it. Firballs do 6d6 damage. So person with 5 HP can survive on average 2 stabs from a dagger. Person with 10 HP survives on average 4 stabs with dagger. This means that Polearms do slashing damage, which implies that a 6th level Heal spell gives 40 reverse stab wounds to person with 100 max HP and 4 to person with 10 max HP. Now since both die at -10 HP this means that person with 5 HP has a higher chance of buying Chainmail from the goblin vendor in the Elf Sex Dungeon. It is only barely though, so by RAW our assumption is that unarmored AC modifiers do not stack with Monk, Barb and Dragonborn. Thats why people roll 3d6 instead of 4d6 drop 1, and HP is called Hit Points and not Health Points. QED the goblin vendor looks the most wounded, because he could have looted the dagger from the halberd with fireball spell per attack.

>>52536292
That is a fun wonky idea and it would be fine in Fate but your DM probably did the right thing.

'No hit' would lead to some awkward stuff with poison stingers, owlbear hugs, getting shoved, and other 'on hit' stuff.

And halfassing it to fit the mechanics like 'sometimes you dodge but not if on-hit is relevant' would just be constant minor work for the battle fluff of a single character

>>52540384
This is wrong. Just before Tupac's ghost shot Michael Jackson from his Brass Dragon, he clearly stated that 2nd edition was superior.

>>52535943
The one at 5/10 looks more wounded than the one at 10/100 because at that many hit points, most of them lost are plot armor so the character won't actually look wounded.

>>52540292
I prefer the wounds being invisible, until you drop below 0 HP at which point you suddenly explode with wounds covering your entire body.

>>52535943
Any damage that doesn't kill you is... Wait for it... Non-lethal. They both look equally healthy, though second guy is a bit exhausted.

>>52536292
I love that concept and may someday use it. Your DM was unimaginative and didn't want to do extra descriptive work.

>>52536445
>>52536555
This is what I meant, yes. Idea being that higher-level characters have a larger HP pool to work off of, so even a high-level character depleted of HP could take more punishment than a lower-level character with less. That said, I at least would say that you could still look at the higher-level character and get the gist of "Wow, he looks super worn-out," because relative to the noob, he has lost more of his ability to avoid wounds.

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>>52535943
Damage isn't always visible, BUT...

(a) 5/10 is at 50% of his limit
(b) 10/100 is at 10% of his limit

(b) will most likely look more effed than (a), but can survive much more of a beating in order to get to that point, since his limit is much higher.

I use 7 stages of damage.
7- "I feel good." (90-100%)
6 - "Not too bad." (75-90%)
5 - "Pretty roughed up.." (60-75%)
4 - "Getting my ass kicked." (45-60%)
3 - "Ugh." (30-45%)
2 - "Holy shit." (15-30%)
1 - "Fuuuck." (1-15%)
The overlapping points are decided by situational context.

It just takes some characters longer to switch stages of pain. Imagine if they're both at full.
(a) takes one slap for 5, goes down to from "feeling good" to "I'm getting my ass kicked"
(b) takes one slap for 5 and his position doesn't change.

>>52536245
>Neither are "wounded"

But both are helped by "Cure Wounds". Really makes you think.

>>52540815
Well duh you think Cure Wounds wouldn't cure cuts and scratches? Idiot

>>52540917
>cuts and scratches aren't "wounds"

Whatever.

>>52540815
I'm pretty sure most people agree at some level the system just doesn't make sense. Lots of the fluff surrounding HP-loss seems to imply physical wounds, yet you never bleed out from simply losing HP (it's dropping below 0 that does that), you don't suffer any penalties from it. The simplest handwave, as far as I can tell, is to just refluff HP as one's capacity to avoid actually lethal wounds, and thus healing becomes effects which replenish that capacity.

>>52540975
No they aren't. At most you would call those superficial injuries. Even a first year medicine student knows this.

>>52540094
Fair enough, then:
>50% vs 10% respect their total hp
Or
>if he gave us real numbers this two stats could be compared, assuming that 1 hp of the first dude equals exactly 1 hp of the second then this question is retarded. If not little more can be done but write sperging walls of useless text

>>52535943
> Who looks more wounded?
The guy who chose Hurt Me Plenty, as opposed to the guy who chose I'm Too Young To Die.

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>>52535943
Are you literally retarded?

>>52535943
The one with the lower Charisma, obviously.

>>52541080
It's actually more or less exactly correct. Imagine you have a sheet of paper, one is 10 times larger than the other. You poke 50 percent of the smaller sheet out with holes, where each hole is 10 percent of the total area. This leaves 5 holes. In the other sheet, you poke 90 holes , each covering 1 percent of this sheet's area. But notice now, that since this sheet is 10 times larger, the holes are the same size on both sheets. Now draw this, which looks the most wrecked??

>>52541004
You receive superficial wounds that you can ultimately fight through during combat. There is a bit of narrative magic at play, but the idea is that battles rarely last longer than a minute, and even though you are getting battered, cut, and bruised, you can take a fair amount of punishment before the adrenaline wears off and you collapse.

There's plenty of stories of athletes playing or fighting with broken bones or torn ligaments without realizing it until after the match/play. One I remember was between Jon Jones and Chael Sonnen, where Jon Jones broke his toe without any of the refs noticing, and kept fighting and dominated the match. After he won, he had to take a seat and had trouble getting through the post-match interview.

>>52541339
I don't know if you are agreeing with me or what are you trying to say.
In the first one I just put the math ops (nothing fancy) but someone stated the difference in "power" of both making the comparison useless.
Then I just said that one would be at half life and the other at 10% but again its a useless comparation unless op gives more data. If it's 1 to 1 then the guy with 10hp (out of 100) still has more hp than the guy with 5hp, but also the other dude has ten times the hp of the half life dude so the 10hp dude would look more fucked than a guy at just halfway it's hp.
Anyway this is a bait or a retard thread, so include me in the commemorative wallpainting.

>>52541584
Just post the paint image. Please I don't have PC.

So, keeping with the premise that HP is an abstract means of representing a character's ability to keep fighting and therefor each "hit" does not necessarily wound the target of the attack, how do I, as a GM, describe attacks landing in a way that is satisfying?

>>52541709
"You feel the crush of the orc's axe against your armor. It does not penetrate your defenses, but the collision causes you a fair deal of pain."

"Though you came out mostly unscathed, the effort of dodging the bandit's flurry of stabs leaves you winded."

"The giant's fist slams into the ground with a concussive force that nearly knocks you off your feet. You manage to remain standing, but your knees wobble and your legs feel unsteady."

>>52541709
Do you really need to do that with each and every attack?

Personally, I stick to one or two descriptions per round, and those are usually for crits, unlikely hits or hits that reduce the opponent to 50% or 0 HP. Basically, shit that actually affects the flow of combat. And even then, half the time I ask the player involved what happened.

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>>52541634
Not sure what you want to see with this or if this what you meant

If I'm using HP, I wanna interpret it literally. I want a guy to walk into a bar with 20 goblin arrows sticking out of him and order a whiskey and 3 clerics. Everyone around will know he's a badass who requires a lotta healing for the lotta damage he just took.

>>52535943
The person with 100 hp has suffered more damage but that person is 10 times tougher so they remain less injured.

think of it like this, me losing 20 dollars hurts me financially a lot worse than Bill Gates losing 1 million dollars.

>>52535943
How i see it, it really depends on how they got there. If the damage they took was from a psychic, there wouldn't be much apparent physical damage apart from some bruises or bloody nose. If it was from a knife fight, some very cut up clothing, mixed with several minor cuts, maybe one or two they they'd definately want looked at soon. Gunfight, probably just one or two close to vital areas that need attention before shock/bloodloss kick in. All this for the 10/100 btw.

Mostly has to do with in the system we run 0 isnt dead, just KO'd. -200% of max is dead. Or 10 injuries. Sounds soft, but it not an issue for a light hearted campaign.

The 10/100 hp guy has more nicks, scratches, and lightly bleeding cuts than the other guy. The 5/10 hp guy probably has a solidly bruised rib and a few bruises.

The 10/100 guy looks like what the other guy would look like at 1 hp.

>>52537232
Listen mate, we've done this rodeo several dozen times this past month alone. You're not going to shake the fact that even the system itself treats HP like meat points, nor are you going to be able to shout down opposition once they raise points such as "why don't I get penalties for losing health?" or "Why am I just as good at fighting at 1 HP as I am at full" or "How exactly does luck and training allow me to survive falling off a cliff multiple times without so much as breaking a leg?" so on and so forth.

HP bloat isn't a meme, it's a consequence of the system giving player classes too much HP without properly balancing the damage output, so enemies tend to become damage sponges and combat boils down to standing in a row and trying to reduce the other guy(s) to 0 before you lose all your HP, assuming the mage doesn't just nuke the field but that's a different D&D issue all together.

Can we break the narrative and just go to bed for once?

>>52537844
>specific reference to Howard referring to Conan as pretty much every big cat under the sun but with a specific preference for adjectives such as "tigrish"

Listen to this anon, he knows his shit.

This is a comfy thread

>>52545207
What's amazing me is that you kept arguing your same misinterpretations tirelessly up until now. You also seem to have me mistaken with what's apparently a large assembly of people who have been foolish enough to try to explain to you how stupid your HP Bloat myth is and why you are an idiot for clinging to it, regardless of how people refute it or how often they refute it. I'm actually shocked that you've argued this a dozen times in the last month alone, because I thought for certain you had finally learned your lesson or given up, since I haven't heard your stupid "HP Bloat" bullshit for several months now.

>or are you going to be able to shout down opposition once they raise points
These are points that have been argued against since before D&D. HP as an abstraction has existed for decades prior to D&D in a wide variety of war games, and all of those points have been addressed decades before D&D even came into being.

I understand you want to go to bed, but you are just going to wake up tomorrow and still not understand HP, but still feel the need to complain about it.

Do yourself a favor, and read what HP is, and how to use it, rather than performing mental gymnastics to figure out how to use it wrong only for people to tell you "You're using it wrong."

>>52545635
>how stupid your HP Bloat myth is
HP scaling faster than damage leading to stupid fights seems like a pretty coherent position to me.

>>52545704
Not only is that not universally the case, it's also largely irrelevant to your Meat Points idea.

Shit, I forgot you're an absolute autist who is utterly compelled to argue, regardless of how stupid his arguments are. I'm going to assume you're going to try to steer this discussion further away, into you just showing off how wrong you are in regards to other concepts of the game in order to just keep leaping away from admitting you're ever wrong on any single point, so I'm going to go ahead and do you the favor of ignoring you and your HP Bloat myth. I'm pretty sure you're going to end up arguing with someone not experienced with your type in some other thread, but at least I can leave you with the seed of the idea that hey, maybe you do have mental issues, and hey, maybe you should try listening to what other people say for once instead of falling into an endless cycle of people repeating the same things to you while you flee into your own head.

Let me do you a big favor now. Right now? Ad Hominem. I'm calling you an idiot without presenting something for you to laboriously argue against. You literally don't have to reply at all, because there's no reason to reply and tell me that I'm just using ad hominem, since the only thing I've said is that plenty of people have disagreed with you in the past, and you still haven't learned a single thing from them because you're too fixated on just arguing in general. That's not something you can really argue against, because it's just a direct insult against you.

If you want to argue against that insult, you're only going to end up confirming it.
Good night.

>>52545635
HP clearly scales faster than damage does, it's obvious the moment you get to 5th level and notice how monsters begin to slowly but surely outpace the amount of damage your character is expected to do.

If you want to continue plugging your head in the sand and default to "muh abstraction" than be my guest, you're only hurting your own position and drawing more attention to HP bloat as a whole, I just figured that you'd want to sidestep this endless waltz of ours on the assumption that you were as tired of this bullshit as I am.

>>52545868
>still tries
Go into the archive and read all the people explaining you why and how you're wrong. No reason to drag your myths everywhere with you just because you have a hardon for tricking people into arguing with you.

>>52545843
I'm not even the guy you were arguing against you fucking autist.

>>52545843
Well I mean, I could call you an autistic knob in response to you calling me an idiot if that's the case but at that point you've basically given away your position just to attack me to no avail.

Also, for something that's just a "myth" you sure are getting angry over it. Maybe you should take a nap or something.

>>52545934
My mistake. I didn't realize that you were here just to parrot something you didn't understand that this guy has said before.

I'm actually a little surprised that you'd repeat a debunked myth just because this HP Bloat anon clings to it like a drowning man, regardless of how irrelevant it is to the discussion. What I'm struggling to understand is why both of you >>52545704 >>52545868 decided to lead with that empty myth when it wasn't even the central topic of discussion. Do you do this often? Is this a rehearsed routine for both of you? Do you know each other? Do you shitpost about how little you know about HP every two days or something?

This is what I'm scared of.
>Listen mate, we've done this rodeo several dozen times this past month alone.

I'm terrified that I'm dealing with not ordinary shitposters, but dedicated ones. I argued with this guy a few months ago, and I'm fucking shocked that he's still clinging to the underside of threads, ready to shit them up with his bullshit arguments.

>>52545909
>Go into the archive and read all my posts explaining to you why and how you're wrong.
FTFY

You're not fooling anyone chief, we all know when it's you based off of your writing style and the fact that you keep using the same arguments and the same insults over and over again.

>>52546069
"parrot" nothing, I can point to specific instances of it happening. You ever stopped to consider that there was a reason you stopped getting hit dice after a certain level in AD&D?

>>52546069
If you're that frightened by boogiemen then stop opening up the closet door and just. go. to. sleep.

>>52535943
The guy with 10/100 hp looks worse but is better able to fight through the injuries.

>>52536473
Well then how does someone get poisoned by a wyvern?

>>52546234
By being a bitch.

>>52536741
This is the answer OP.

One guys has taken 90 damage, but is still able to stand. The other guy has taken 5 damage, and is almost dead.

If you need a mental image, think Goku vs. Krillin. Goku can take way more hurting than Krillin can and still be in the fight.

>>52546209
/THREAD

>>52536473
it's not pure dumb luck though. It's dumb luck forcing superficial damage instead of to vital organs.
Still being injured, but not being grievously injured til you lose that last point.

>>52546274
I dunno, Krillin took a punch from Goku at relatively high power and only got a bruise for all his troubles.

>>52537232
>There are smaller creatures with more HP than larger creatures, and them getting more HP as they advance size categories is correlation, not causation.
some small things have harder to injure vital organs than big things. Big things still on average have more you have to get through to hit vitals though.

>>52540671
like one piece?

>>52546124
>I can point to specific instances of it happening.

And I can point to specific instances of it not happening.

Which leads us back to you guys just doing the whole "mental gymnastics to figure out how to play the game wrong so people have to tell you to stop being stupid" routine.

I'm literally flabbergasted that you are still up to this same shit. Is this how you spend every night or something? Finding any thread where people are discussing things like HP, and then figuring out how to shitpost them with pointless arguments?

I mean, for fuck's sake, what we're arguing about right now is about how you need to stop it with these pointless arguments based entirely on you misinterpreting the rules and their purpose, on purpose, just for the sake of argument.

>>52546115
I understand you don't have the capacity to believe me or the willingness to do so, but sincerely, honestly, I haven't gone near these arguments in months. In fact, I'm only willing to go so near as to say "Holy shit, I can't believe there are still idiots repeating stuff that got shot down months ago. Do they just keep bullshitting because they hope that people who've never played a roleplaying game before will just start parroting them?"

It's insane. I wanted to hope it was just some new faces spontaneously coming up with these awful ideas, but it's literally just the same idiots, still trolling, still unchanged and still pathetic.

And still incapable of moving on from an argument.

>>52546374
I was struggling to remember where I had seen that thing happen in an anime. Thanks.

>>52546432
>And I can point to specific instances of it not happening.
When damage scaling keeps up with HP scaling. Which definitionally makes it not HP bloat.

I don't really care about any of the other parts of that guy's argument at all and think they're pretty fucking stupid, in fact. They don't really make sense and are at best only tangentially related to HP bloat. But pretending that HP bloat has never been a thing is bullshit of the highest order when you can take one look at google and find pages of results for "hp bloat D&D" before you hit a single result for /tg/.

>>52546432
I thought that you were just going to call the one guy an idiot and then walk away?

What's really amazing is how you show up in every thread, post the same argument, fall back to the same petty insults, yet accuse other people of incapable of moving on from the argument.

You could just hide the shit that triggers you and go on about your business but nope, you'd rather try and prove that you're right even though you've done this dozens of times and have been proven wrong each and every time.

>>52546507
> But pretending that HP bloat has never been a thing

Let me help you put a nail in this coffin.

The HP to Damage ratio isn't fixed. It varies dramatically, depending on edition, build, content, style, and preferences, including variants and home rules, though we can ignore that latter part because you sound like the kind of autist who demands that the only way people are allowed to discuss any game is RAW.

Some people prefer high leveled characters to be more durable. It sounds like you don't. If that is your preference, you have a myriad of options to adjust the game to suit your personal tastes, even by sticking to RAW. But, for most people, it's not a significant issue, and in fact for some it's actually a feature of the game, since they prefer high level characters to be more durable than what a simulationist would probably commit to.

"HP Bloat" can exist. Talking about it like it's some overarching critical issue with HP is just being silly though, since it's not an issue for the overwhelming majority of players.

>>52546568
>What's really amazing is how you show up in every thread,

What's amazing is that you're convinced it's the same person. The only reason I'm still here is actually because I took a shot in the dark, and not only was proven right, but am getting more and more evidence that you've literally been here for months now, arguing almost every night, and all because you are absolutely incapable of conceding, no matter how wrong you are.

You will literally be here arguing forever. I've only got this night, so I might as well use you for my entertainment for a little while longer.

>>52546637
>Some people prefer high leveled characters to be more durable.
Level 5-10 is not high level by any stretch of the imagination anon.
>Talking about it like it's some overarching critical issue with HP is just being silly though, since it's not an issue for the overwhelming majority of players.
Which is why whenever people talk about 4e, one of the first things that gets brought up is HP bloat even though 4e managed to fix the math towards the end of its lifespan.

I mean, if you like playing FF and standing opposite of dudes, trading blows that do practically no observable effect beyond having less HP and shit like that then be my guest but I'd prefer combat to be a bit more involved without just nuking the field with magic all day.

>>52546743
>What's amazing is that you're convinced it's the same person.
It's not like you do a good job of hiding that charming personality of yours.
>The only reason I'm still here is actually because I took a shot in the dark, and not only was proven right, but am getting more and more evidence that you've literally been here for months now, arguing almost every night, and all because you are absolutely incapable of conceding, no matter how wrong you are.
Yet in spite of this; same argument, same insults, same tactics, most likely until the thread hits the bump limit because you're too autistic to walk away even though you believe that you're talking to the same person.
>I've only got this night
Please, don't kid yourself, if you had the power to walk away then we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

Welp, I'm done arguing with you. You may not be capable of walking away from a shitposter but I am. See ya.

>>52546802
>Level 5-10 is not high level by any stretch of the imagination anon.

For a simuationist? It's considerably beyond ordinary folk, so yes, high level to them.

>Which is why whenever people talk about 4e,

You mean a specific issue? Not an overarching one with HP? Glad we settled that with you being wrong. And extra wrong, because you went ahead and added that there's an easy fix.

>I'd prefer

At least you have enough sense to not argue against that it's just your preference, even if you went ahead with a pretty terrible attempt at strawman-style exaggeration. Can't really say I didn't expect you to at least do that much, because I already understand how pathetic you are.

I think that's it. Final nail in the coffin, you can go to bed with your myth.

>>52546637
>Talking about it like it's some overarching critical issue with HP
It's not an issue with HP itself at all because there are many games that have HP but don't have that issue. Why is this hard to understand?

>>52546875
Whatever anon, I'll just lump into the same group as anti-vaxxers and flat-earth atheists and go on about my business.

If you weren't willing to listen to logic once in the last few dozen threads, why should I believe that you'll grow a functioning brain this time around?

>>52546861
>It's not like you do a good job of hiding that charming personality of yours.

I'd love to imagine that you're seeing phantoms of myself in every person that disagrees with you, but what makes me sad is that you're not even really looking at me. You're just reading my words in the tone of some boogeyman from your past or imagination, and you're going to keep seeing that person forever, since people will never stop disagreeing with you.

It's really, really sad.

>if you had the power to walk away
Power? It's called a life. Not everyone gets to shitpost everyday on the internet like you do. I think I'd actually enjoy schooling kids like you more often, but you're not exactly paying me for this grand education.

>Welp, I'm done arguing with you.

I sort of wish you were.
Arguing with me, that is.
But, until you stop arguing with all those demons in your head, you're just going to repeat this with someone else tomorrow, or the next day, or however long it takes for you to finally stop being such a prat.

Here's hoping, though.

>>52546637
>you have a myriad of options to adjust the game to suit your personal tastes
You mean the DM does. From a player perspective, I can only get the game adjusted to my tastes if everyone at the table fully agrees with me.

I'd also say that adjusting the HP to damage ratios across editions is a shitty thing to do and had screwed things up every time they've done it. Even the one time there was a legitimate reason for it, WotC had to backtrack and make new versions of entire books because it fucked the game up really bad.

>>52541004
Why can't they just admit that it's an incredibly abstract system and that HP doesn't really represent anything but a simple game mechanic? You never hear chess players try to justify why ever combat is always resolved in favour of the piece that moved, that's just an accepted part of the game.

>>52535943

In most systems they look exactly the same.

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Oh cool it's the reddit thread, haha #epic.

>>52547395
For the most part, tabletop RPGs systems are present as a means to provide context and structure for a story. That is to say that a TTRPG's mechanics are only as useful insofar as they simulate events in the narrative. You don't have mechanics for how long you can go without needing to take a shit because that's not simulating anything important to the narrative. Combat mechanics are intended to provide structure for the fight scenes in stories, so ideally those mechanics have some sort of mapping to what is happening in the narrative.

>>52535943
The second guy endured at least 9 hits that could outright kill the first guy.
And it would take just a hit HALF as powerful to kill the first guy, in the state he is now.
So, I say 2nd guy fares better.

>>52547490
>You don't have mechanics for how long you can go without needing to take a shit
>this guy doesn't have a "you need to take a shit now" counter in his game
Fucking casuals.

The specific numbers don't determine how wounded you look, but the percentages.

5/10 = 50%
10/100 = 10%

Therefore, the 10/100 character looks more grievously wounded than the other.

>>52546637
>though we can ignore that latter part because you sound like the kind of autist who demands that the only way people are allowed to discuss any game is RAW.
Why wouldn't your discussion of the game be confined to what's actually in the game rather then what other people have had to come up with in order to fix it? You see it's shit like this that gives away you're this one lonely autist who spends all their time defending the honour of D&D on this board from anybody who'd dare to criticize it, who else would make such a retarded statement? The fact that house rules are so necessary that you think it's unfair to leave them out just shows how incredibly broken the base game is, if it worked properly out of the box you wouldn't need to even bring up house rules.

>>52541822
Knees weak, palms are sweaty, Mom's spaghetti.
>>52546209
^this.

>>52535943
Well HP is relative to how much you can take.
The person with 10/100 HP is far more wounded than the person with 5/10,
but the person with more HP has the resilience to keep on fighting much longer than the one with less.
So in that, imagine a cow getting stabbed multiple times compared to a chicken getting stabbed once.
The cow is overall in a better condition than the chicken even though it's suffered much more damage because it's not likely the chicken can even survive another stabbing.

In conclusion, the 10/100 HP person is more wounded, but The 5/10 HP person is closer to death.

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The second guy is Zabuza.

>>52547669
Closer to death? One is at 50% HP while the other is at 10% granted 10 is a higher number than 5 but uh you're wrong buddy.

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The first is only moderately wounded, but you can tell that they're not used to it and it's debilitating.
The second is severely wounded, of the "How are you still standing" variety. But there's a fire in their eyes; their soul and vitality are clearly superhuman, and they're still ready as hell to give the hurt back.

>>52536130
Then why do classes that usually are suppose to have more meat points also ALWAYS have more hit points?

>>52547899
Correlation =/= Causation.

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>>52544264
I also unironically do this whenever I play a system with HP, which these days is only D&D out of nostalgia

I don't care if people think it's stupid, I like my heroes to be Heroes
You're fighter isn't random guy with sword #654268 he is the cream of the crop for his race and is an undeniable badass superhuman warrior who can go toe to toe with trolls and giants and dragons

>>52547913
Not an answer.
Why do meat classes have more hit points if it is mostly plot armor?

>>52548145
>Not an answer.
What? It totally answers what fallacy you're committing.

Have you tried not playing D&D?

>>52548209
The problem with the "have you tried not playing D&D" is that people use it more often than not when playing a different system wouldn't solve anything.

Few problems discussed on this board can be solved just by switching systems, largely because at the end of the day, the system is actually only a small component to the game that's being run, and that switching systems just leads to a new veneer on the same old problems.

"Try X system" is not always bad advice, but it's not particularly helpful in a thread about problem players, or about story issues, or even alignment arguments, because even in the last case it's just a name (or a different name) for things you'll find in find in almost every other game. Even games "without" alignments still have degrees of morality to them or factions with codes of conduct, and most alignment arguments typically revolve around these two features of alignment.

Does D&D have flaws? Certainly, but most of these are remedied in far less time than it takes to learn a new system, and the idea that you should abandon a system just because something didn't work out is why we find a lot of people hopping through multiple systems hoping that a change of game will solve their problems.

Most of the whole problem with system discussion is that it's actually political in nature. Play X game or play Y game is a tactic to try to garner support for one game or dissuade people from playing another, and is largely dishonest in its lack of transparency. D&D becomes a target not because it's a bad game by any measure, but because it's popularity means people are less inclined to play other games.

As a person who has played his share of everything under the sun and now plays homebrews almost exclusively, I've really gotten tired of people claiming system superiority or inferiority when they're all just talking about the same inferior games just under different disguises.

If only they knew how amazing Duck in the Circle was.

>>52548232
Fuck off with your copypasta.

>>52547539
"You have failed to find a proper lavatory in time, you have shat yourself. -3 to charisma."

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>>52535943
>>52540808

>Who looks more wounded: A person with 5/10 HP, or a person with 10/100?

Time to learn.

In chemistry (and in a lot of other fields), you often have to compare two values. Let's say you did two tests for iron in ore, and got values of 100.6mg/kg and 100.5 mg/kg. You also did two tests for gold in the ore and got values of 0.6 mg/kg and 0.5mg/kg.

Now both results have a difference of 0.1 mg/kg. How do we make that difference /useful/?

We use something called the "relative percent difference." It's equal to Absolute(value1 - value2)/(value1+value2) x100%.

So for our iron test, that's [100.6-100.5]/[100.6+100.5] x100% = 0.05 RPD

But for lead, that's
[0.6-0.5]/[0.6+0.5] = 9.09 RPD

That's a much more significant difference.

Let's look at the HP values.

[10-5]/[10+5] x100% = 33.3 RPD
[100-10]/[100+10] x100% = 81 RPD

Therefore, it's very easy to state that in systems where HP = physical wounds, the 10/100 fighter looks more wounded. In a system where HP = "don't get hit points", neither fighter looks damage, but the 10/100 fighter /appears/ to be closer to being damaged.

RPD isn't the best comparison here, but it's very handy for other values. Use it to impress banker dragons.

>>52548518
> In a system where HP = "don't get hit points", neither fighter looks damage, but the 10/100 fighter /appears/ to be closer to being damaged.

But doesn't he still have 5HP more than the other guy?

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>>52548873
It depends on the circumstances. 10HP guy just needs one solid hit to halve his HP. He /always/ looks close to being hit. The relative difference between being hit and not hit, for him, is low.

Then there's the 100HP fighter. He has a larger "don't get hit" buffer, so it's fairly obvious at first that he's not going to be hit. But slowly, you can see that he's being worn down. That's why I said "appears" to be closer. Point-wise, he's farther away, but he's also fallen significantly further.

If your bumblefuck friend goes from making $16 an hour to $8, you'd just sigh and move on. But if your brilliant consulting friend goes from making $350 and hour to making $20 an hour, you'd be like "Wait, hold on, what the fuck?". Your bumblefuck friend might be objectively closer to losing his shirt, but your now-impoverished consulting friend /appears/ to be closer to fucking everything up.

What the fuck.

>>52548952
I think I get it now. I was approaching it more from a "I deal 6 damage with my attacks, who should I attack to bring them down below 0" approach, but that's actually irrelevant to how injured they appear, since if I did 11 damage and it was 10/10 and 15/100, the former being uninjured doesn't alter that he's the one more sensible to attack.

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>>52549051
But it's not like the numbers are appearing over their heads. You have to judge based on what information you have.

Anyway, glad to help.

5/10 is looking better, but only because 10/100's lowest is equal to 5/10's highest.
It's kinda like if a guy with 10 million dollars lost half of his wealth. He still has much more money than the average person, but to him it would feel like he was nearly bankrupt.

>>52546234
Very slightly. Taking a full dose of poison from a creature bigger than you is going to result in instant, excruciating death as opposed to a couple dice of poison damage.

>>52536834
it kinda moved away from any kind hp system long time ago. Now the best way to kill something reliably is to destroy their nervous system(if it has one), mangle it beyond any recognition(undeads especially) or server all of it's head(s)
Or is it sand colossus or water colossus, just touch it.

>>52535943
The latter looks more wounded because they're missing so much of their max, but they're still better off than the former.

>>52540384
Solve for X.

>>52540384
So what you're saying is, HP is the rating of one's fortitude to keep fighting in the face of pain and anguish?

It would make sense, seeing as how a seasoned fighter would be used to pain and shrug it off, whereas a bookish mage would obviously crumple and quit.

After being incapacitated however, the idea of HP gets wonky.