how do I learn to design a board game as perfect as chess, shogi

>>52499417
If you strive to make the "perfect" anything, then you already failed.

>>52499458
chess is a perfect game, same as go and shogi.

Make a simple game and run it through a neural network for, oh, say fifteen hundred years give or take.

That's assuming you've got a prior model to base it on, otherwise it takes upwards of five thousand years.

>>52499500
If you don't do this you get yet another shitty tafl game

>>52499470
First turn advantage is a pretty big issue in chess.

>>52499417
That tends to take a few centuries

how would you design a proper new perfect board game.

I suppose you need to design it around war, or diplomacy.

I'm sure I will need to read the art of war of tsun zun and think how to approach his wisdom in terms of a board game.

I think it would need to have territory control and units.

The goal could be the destruction of the enemy leader, or control of more space, like go, or some combination of both.

Any ideas.

I'm sure chess is about medieval warfare, but I'm sure a modern equivalent could be also made that doesn't look like warhamer 40k but more simplified, like chess, where each unit represents a batallion or military unit.

Some stuff from risk could be also taken, like territory form of taking new territory, and could be mixed with the territory way to control territory from go.

Even some stuff like cities from Freeciv could be also implemented.

Any more idea?

>>52499735
Same in go, if not more.

>>52499921
>tsun zun
I hope this is baiting

>>52499958
can't remember those chinese gook names, sorry.

>>52499958
that's the original non-westernised japanese spelling

Do you mean perfect as in entirely based upon player's capacity to do permutations of moves in a closed system?

>>52499993
yeah, like go, shogi and chess.

>>52499975
>I can't remember something as simple and iconic as Sun Tzu
Have you tried swallowing a bullet already, before Alzheimer turns you into a fucking vegetable?

>>52499981
You are aware the guy was Chinese, right?

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>This entire thread

>>52500032
>You are aware the guy was Chinese, right?
That's exactly the problem.
Those slant-eyes don't pronounce things consistently and they romanize shit differently every five minutes.

>>52499935
>>52499735
So Go is also an imperfect game then. The original statement Anon made is still correct.

>>52500131
OP here.

I meant perfect in the sense all it's pieces fit together perfectly.

I didn't mean perfect in the same it doesn't have flaws.

>>52499417
will all the pieces be the same (e.g. go) or will they different (e.g. chess)

do you know the size and shape of the board?

1st step: impose some design constraints

>>52500185
What do you mean by fit together perfectly? Starts symmetrically? Pieces have 1:1 value?

>>52500239
I dunno, was thinking about diferent specialized pieces, but they're shaped like shogi pieces and you can upgrade them by simply turning around the piece, like shogi.

What would be the end game?
Regicide or territory control.

>>52500262
game design.
They're beatifull game designs.

>>52500281
>They're beatifull game designs.
Then why does barely anyone play them anymore

>>52500281
I'd probably start by reading and studying pre-existing games, to know what's been done and what's been effective.

For example, I think you MIGHT be talking about symmetrical, perfect-knowledge games, but you aren't using that vocabulary. "beatifull" game design isn't terribly descriptive.

>>52500325
chess is played by 600 million people worldwide anon.

go to any park and you'll see older people playing chess.

>>52500327
thanks.

I guess rather than copying games I should study WWII history to try to make something like chess but inspired by modern warfare.

>>52500281
So complex systems that unfold as predicted? The beauty in measuring capacity for humans to predict?

>>52500325
Because they're solved.
No point playing a game when the winner is anyone with a computer.

>>52500358
beauty in the game design anon.
beauty as in seeing a simple system that makes a complex behaviour, like a machine gear.

Okay, OP here.

It’s a 10x10 board like chess.

The pieces are shaped like shogi, in the sense they can upgrade by fliping themselves on the board.

There’s a river in the middle.

The pieces after they go through the river change their behaviours and their movements are heavily limited.

There’s a castle or enemy HQ where the leader resides and he can’t leave this HQ.

There’s three corridors to reach the enemy castle, separated through a basic wall the pieces can’t go through.

>>52500600
Have you read about all of the different chess variations? There's some really neat ones that might give you some additional inspiration.

>>52500415
I wonder if there are any interesting fractal generator games.

>>52500682
yeah, but my chess skills are amateur as fuck.

was planning on pirating the teaching company course on chess.

>>52500721
Get good at shit before you make shit based on it.

>>52500881
yeah, I'll try.

>>52499417
You mean like backgammon?

>>52499935
No the komi is here to be sure there is 50% winrate in the pro-scene.

>>52500600
>10x10 board
Pls no
If you want to design an abstract game, take a look at hive. Obviously not as complex as chess, it's easy to learn, fast and has a well implemented theme. Pretty much a 'perfect' game. If you aim for something as complex as chess itself, you will fail, especially if you're not even good at it.

>>52500389
I hate this. Not because I necessarily think you are wrong about computers being better than humans in games like chess, because they are faster and can look further into future options than the best human players can.
But because chess is not a solved game.

It's not. It's also probably not possible to solve it in the manner that 'solved game' means, because there are more possible permutations than can be reasonably calculated before the heat-death of the universe. Last I heard a 5x5 chessboard was solved for any four pieces on the entire board. That does not mean that the whole game is solved nor does it mean that 32 pieces on an 8x8 board is even possible to solve.