If dwarfs are Jews, how come they're usually said to hate

No gnomes are jews.

>>52462909
As opposed to some of the halflings?

>>52462926
I guess you could say kender are like gypsies. Specifically the shitty yuropoor gypsies.

>>52462893
>dwarves are the magic users
>elves are the "magic is for the weak" proud warrior types
Could work.

>>52462949
In Witcher elves are pretty obviously gypsies, just as dwarves are, indeed, jews.

They're not Jews, they're dwarves

>>52462893
I've been tempted to make a campaign about a new nation of gnomes struggling to set itself up in a hostile territory while fending off attacks from pissy neighbors inspired by Israel, but thought better of it.

>>52462893
Because Gimli was a fighter.

That's it. Dwarves use different sorts of magic all the time in Middle-Earth, and certainly in mythology as well. But the most famous dwarf - to Gygax - was Gimli, and Gimli didn't use magic.

That's it.

>>52462893
What's so Jewish about dwarfs, other than the bearded women?

>>52463185
>sumthin sumthin shekels

>>52463185
They live alongside humans but seperate from them because their homeland was destroyed and they were scattered, the have their own secret language they use only amongst themselves, and generally make a living doing skilled labor or professional stuff as smiths or jewelers. Also, Khuzdul is intended to be based on Hebrew and other Semitic languages.

That's all only in Tolkein though, so it doesn't really matter for modern stuff.

>>52463185
>>52463203
>>52463289
Also the pointy hat make a good yarmulke equivalent.

>>52462893

I've been tempted to make the Dwarves in my personal setting a hard analogue to Roman-Era Jews, right down to worship of a single god, dietary practices, naming conventions, and blood sacrifices to their God.

>>52463062
Go listen to the Martyrmade podcast, the "Fear and Loathing In The New Jerusalem" miniseries.

If you can't turn the creation of modern Israel into a campaign, you are a terrible GM.

>Dwarves
>Jews

They're stout and strong and sometimes resist disease.

Ever hear the one about the book of famous Jewish athletes?

>>52463062
If the gnomes aren't being sold enormous amounts of arms by the largest human mercantile empire to establish a sphere of influence in an area filled with religious zealots funded by a small human kingdom with a ridiculous amount of wealth due to exclusive access to huge amounts of a rare but integral and ultimately corrupting resource, you're doing it wrong.

>>52462893
It's not a 1:1 equivalence. Dwarves are just judaism inspired not jew jews.

File: south-park-s10e12c06-im-a-monkey-16x9.jpg (81KB, 960x540px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 960x540px

>>52463415
They're the great jew jews up the mountain

>>52462893
>If dwarfs are Jews, how come they're usually said to hate magic


"A sorcerer shall not be allowed to live." (Exodus 22:17)

"For you are coming into a land that God is granting to you; do not learn the ways of the abominations of the native people. There shall not be found amongst you ... a sorcerer, soothsayer or engager of witchcraft ... or one who calls up the dead. For it is an abomination before God, and it is on account of these abominations that God is giving you their land." (Deut. 18:9-12)

>>52463429
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal_Shem

>>52463429
But Solomon regularly dealt with demons.

>>52463411
If the goal is to set it up like the creation of Israel, then you're the one doing it wrong, because literally none of that was what happened between 1895 and 1949.

Tolkien's dwarves use magic more than humans do in universe.
Wagner's dwarves use FUCKLOT of magic
Both are actually based or jews, the former in positive, the latter in negative way.

Other fantasy dwarves aren't based on jews, they are based on pre-existing concepts of dwarves, often being deliberately picky and/or undelibverately ignorant.

>>52463429
>>52463434
I raise you this retarded cultural anecdote with an actually relevant article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practical_Kabbalah

>>52463289

a lot of jews in new york and throughout the US don't even know hebrew

>>52463438
He's talking a bout more recent events.
Large mercantile empire = 'Murica

>>52463475
Good to know, but Tolkein wrote the Hobbit 80 years ago in England, so it's not really applicable.

>>52463438
So you'd rather the gnomes be the survivors of a genocide at the hands of a human empire that was defeated by several other empires and as penance they tore a piece of land from their stretching imperialist sphere to give them, simultaneously setting up puppet regimes in neighboring territories that fall apart and end up controlled by said zealots?

Better have a small set of gnomes that had lived there for thousands of years and had good relations with the future zealots and dislike the current regime then.

>>52463475
That's because Hebrew was until very recently a dead language. Not dead like Latin, but actually dead, as in 'no one speaks this or can write this language, we only think we know what the Torah says because of the oral tradition surrounding it not because we actually understand the grammar and words used.' For centuries the closest they had was Medieval Hebrew, which was bastardized Classical Arabic and even the most hardcore rabbis and scholars stopped using it in the 1700's.

Eliezer Ben-Yehuda led a team in the early 20th century to try and rebuild Hebrew, as he was one of the Zionists who felt that the Jews needed a new cultural identity to make the Nation of Israel actually be a nation. Modern Hebrew is nothing like that which was used to write the books, but it's creation is an incredible story.

>>52463527
Obviously. I'm saying that his analogy is not about the 'set up' stage that >>52463062 mentioned, but jumping ahead some 60 years.

>>52462893
Jews fear the Witches

>>52462989

>Dwarfs lean a bit too heavily on runic magic
>elf tribes

done.

>>52463569
Wait, what is Yiddish then? Besides fucked up German?

>>52462893
They're not "supposed to be" anything. When asked about it, Tolkien did compare them to Jewish people, but it's not a 1 to 1. They're not fantasy Jews, they're dwarves

File: tzeench merchant.gif (40KB, 501x585px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 501x585px

>>52462893
As a jew who actually does beleive in mysticism and the supernatural, I can tell you that this is patently untrue. Even the most religious Jews think quite lowly on Kabbalah and other mysticism.

>>52463594
actually judaisim has specific clauses built in that if the rabbi doesnt know what to do or isnt around that its perfectly acceptable and even advaisable to visit any local magical practitioner from witches to sorcerers or anything

judaisms weird and kinda cool

there are rabbinical provisions from three hundred years ago about the morality of sex robots and how that would differ between a robot with strong or weak ai

>>52463667

Are dwarves jews or no?
simple question.

>>52463567
You're still missing the history, and the opportunities within. Instead say that the gnomes were not persecuted once, but repeatedly for centuries in waves. In recent past, it seemed that a wave had crested and they were being freed from archaic restrictions and allowed to participate more freely in common society, with a combination of gnomish cultural traditions and the spring-like ambition of an oppressed minority unchained sending them disproportionately to the top.

Then a new wave of persecutions, more viscious than any in living memory, reminded them that they are still outcasts and others. Mix in a resurgence in worldwide gnomish culture (and some fears of death by assimilation) and some powerful gnomes with the ears of important statesmen in the world empire, and you have the groundwork for an alliance. Help the gnomes set up a homeland in what is known to the Empire to be uninhabited scrubland, and in return get electoral support now and a pliable community (but not nation) in that area. The rich gnomes don't want to go and start this community, but fortunately there's a bunch of poor, unmarried young males to the East who are tired of getting kicked around and want something new.

Turns out there are natives in that place, who aren't super happy about what looks to them like another identical round of colonization from the Empire. Fortunately, there's going to be a war (during which the natives will turn against their current rulers and side with the Empire) and an absolutely devastating famine that will kill about half of them, ruining what civilization and organization they had and making colonization easier. Add in gnomes fighting amongst themselves, but still being organized enough to continue moving indespite strife, and you're there.

>Better have a small set of gnomes that had lived there for thousands of years and had good relations with the future zealots and dislike the current regime then.
There are (or at least were) Jews like that.

>>52462926
Halflings are West Country English/Cornish people.
You will now give all your halflings West-country accents Oooh arr, oooh arr!

File: 1411011842113.jpg (12KB, 336x340px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 336x340px

>>52463667
>actually does beleive in mysticism and the supernatural
aren't jews supposed to be clever

File: DOTS.png (266KB, 400x300px) Image search: [Google]

266KB, 400x300px

>>52463569
>actually dead, as in 'no one speaks this or can write this language
Not quite the case. We knew how to read and write hebrew, and in medieval ages it was used to communicate between two Jewish communities that didn't speak the same language.
That being said, it had always been primarily a language of prayer, not a language of communication or even of study. Don't know where you heard that BS about it being based on Classical Arabic, but that's BS.

>>52463709
pic

>>52463749
>Not quite the case. We knew how to read and write hebrew, and in medieval ages it was used to communicate between two Jewish communities that didn't speak the same language.
>That being said, it had always been primarily a language of prayer, not a language of communication or even of study. Don't know where you heard that BS about it being based on Classical Arabic, but that's BS.

not him, but there's lots of basic misinformation about Judaism throughout the internet. I wonder what causes it, even simple things like "Judaism is just Christianity without Jesus" or "What is the Jewish view on the afterlife?" get repeated a lot. I'm not jewish at all, I just have a jewish friend and a lot of this seems like basic information

>>52463640
>>52463670
It's either Hebrew that took a bunch of Germanic and Slavic loanwords and structure until it became an autonomous language, or a hybrid Germanic-Slavic language that was adapted to use some Judeo-Semitic grammatical structures.

Either way, it was only used by certain populations of Jews in Eastern Europe.

>>52463749
Medieval Hebrew was a language in use, but it's far removed from Classical Hebrew. was only really used as a written language by scholars, poets. and rabbis and was not a complete linguistic system that could be used for independent communication. As for the influence of Classical Arabic on it's structure (which is especially evident in the poetry and philosophical texts, which were a major facet of it's usage despite you saying it wasn't primarily a language of study) I recommend Sáenz-Badillos.

>>52463684
>there are rabbinical provisions from three hundred years ago about the morality of sex robots and how that would differ between a robot with strong or weak ai
Wow, so they were waifuing robots before Japanese? That's impressive.

File: merchant original form.jpg (139KB, 540x720px) Image search: [Google]

139KB, 540x720px

>>52463800
Well, keep in mind that there's a lot of misinformation on all religions on the internet, largely because theologic experts are the kinds of people who don't tend to use the internet that much. I'd say that the issue is further compounded for Judaism because of lack of numbers.
If you want the answers to those specific questions, by the way, they're "no we're very different from christianity" and "we know/care very little about heaven, and non-jews get to go to heaven" respectively.

>>52463833
Okay, I see what you're trying to say; I got confused with what you meant when you said dead language.
Suffice it to say that we know enough about biblical hebrew to revive it as modern hebrew without any issues.

>>52463856
Judaism is a very anal religion; it measures holiness by seconds and millimeters, so rabbis will tend to argue about topics that are obscure and will probably never be important

>>52463942
>Judaism is a very anal religion; it measures holiness by seconds and millimeters, so rabbis will tend to argue about topics that are obscure and will probably never be important

Wow, they really are dwarves.

>>52463942
>Suffice it to say that we know enough about biblical hebrew to revive it as modern hebrew without any issues

No, in fact quite the opposite. Modern Hebrew and Biblical Hebrew are two different languages with marked similarities. It's like if Latin had truly died and gone unspoken for a few hundred years and unread except for rote memorization of Ovid, eventually someone came along and tried to rebuild it, and we ended up with English. Ben-Yehuda did some excellent scholarship and used as many sources as he could, but just didn't have enough examples of Hebrew grammatical structures and ended up borrowing large parts of European languages to create syntax rules (he and his team were European Jews, so naturally that was their bias).

A colleague of mine described learning to read the Torah as a youth vs. going to Israel and learning Modern Hebrew as the difference between riding a bike and riding a unicycle - you can see what's the same, but try going about it the same way and you'll fall on your face.

>>52464175
Would an apt comparison between modern Hebrew and biblical Hebrew be the difference between Linear A and modern Greek?

>>52464175
The grammar is artificial (this was on purpose, as biblical grammar and conjugation is overcomplicated), but the vocabulary is incredibly similar if not almost identical. I only know a handful of modern hebrew words myself, but I can still find and understand their biblical equivalents without issue.

>>52464196
I'd say a better comparison is Modern English to Early-Middle English.

>>52464196
I can't speak to Linear A (as it's still undeciphered as far as I know) but between Linear B and modern Greek is not the worst comparison. The classic analogy in English is modern English to Early English.

>>52464297
The stylized Biblical structure is the most noticeable difference, but even such basic elements as א ֹנ ִכי to אני can throw people off.

>>52463359

>>52463359
>blood sacrifices
Mostly burn-sacrifices, actually. Blood is considered unkosher in Judaism, and isn't used ins sacrifices.

File: Masada.jpg (2MB, 2632x2026px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2632x2026px

>>52464605
Hopefully works now.
Hill fortress that the romans conquered during the uprising.

>>52463569
>Not dead like Latin, but actually dead, as in 'no one speaks this or can write this language, we only think we know what the Torah says because of the oral tradition surrounding it not because we actually understand the grammar and words used.'
That's quite mysterious, given that as a modern day Hebrew speaker I can understand quite a few of the words written on the Dead Sea Scrolls.

>>52463684
Most rabbinical thought also permits magic if used for a good purpose by a good person, on the basis that Job clearly used magic (gave the visiting angels tokens of good luck which actually worked, a.k.a magical talismans) and we know for a fact the guy was a saint.

>>52463684
>>52463856
Rabbinical discourse is wacky. I don't remember which one is it, but one of the recorded conversations in the Talmud, IIRC, segues (one of the reasons they're so hard to comprehend is that they're literally word for word recordings of conversations people had - they weren't edited or anything. Oftentimes they just change direction in the middle) into the important subject of whether or not God, which had no mother and thus couldn't have had a Jewish mother, could be considered Jewish. The reason? To know the likelihood that his household has Kosher utensils, because if it doesn't then when the rabbis die and go heaven, should they be invited to have dinner with God, they'd be forced to limit themselves to the salads and it would be in poor taste.

I shit you not. I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried.

>>52463717
>fears of death by assimilation
See, that's one of those places where you fuck up trying to make a "real world culture in fantasy" 1:1. They're gnomes, not a fucking religion. They're a different SPECIES to humans, assimilation isn't a risk because it's not possible. Nor is there an issue of gnomes disguising themselves as humans because it's pretty fucking clear they aren't. And much of the tearjerking holocaust argument about humans being dicks to other human beings breaks down because shit, they literally aren't human beings.

File: shrug merchant.jpg (251KB, 1300x1787px) Image search: [Google]

251KB, 1300x1787px

>>52464798
Stuff like that, and even more ridiculous, can be found all over the Talmud.

But, the rabbis are aware of this, and often make fun of themselves and the whole thing in stories. There's one I really want where the rabbis are arguing, and everyone agrees this one rabbi, yet the other rabbi keeps on disagreeing. They ask other smarter, more famous rabbis, who all agree with the first rabbi, while the second rabbi keeps disagreeing. Eventually, God himself comes down and agrees with the first rabbi; this still doesn't convince the second rabbi.

>>52464841
Using basic D&D rules, gnomes are the moral equivalent of human beings, even if they're not the same species.

And you can still have death by assimilation, if the gnomes stop holding in their hearts the idea that being gnomes is something special. Instead of being gnomes that live in Waterdeep, they're Waterdhavian.

It's harder but not impossible to still see the death of culture as a legitimate fear.

>>52464925
It's actually stupider than that. The particular story you're talking about has the rabbis on one side of the argument (whether or not a certain type of oven is kosher) invoking various MIRACLES to prove they're right. Like, they go "If I'm right, then may the carob tree uproot itself and travel a hundred feet to the left", and it does. River flows backwards, walls of the house around them flatten, shit like that. The kicker is that whenever something like this happens, the guy on the other side of the argument just goes "Doesn't count for anything, a miracle isn't an argument". Eventually they invoke God himself and He comes down and tells the guy "DUDE, YOU ARE WRONG, LET IT GO" but the rabbi just crosses his arms and goes "If I'm wrong, give a proper logical argument, all this miracle shit doesn't prove dick."

And then it mentions that years later one of the first rabbis went and met the Prophet Elijah, and asked him how God reacted to the whole thing in heaven, and Elijah's like "oh, he was rolling on the floor laughing out loud 'my children have bested me! My children have bested me!'".

I would have add that both Jews ans dwarves have a true name fetish where words are power, but everything in Tolkien have that so it doesn't really set them out.

>>52464798
>which had no mother and thus couldn't have had a Jewish mother
Couldn't God make himself a Jew just because he is omnipotent being and can do anything and skip that part?

>>52465042
Have you learned nothing about rabbis? The tiny little technical details and rule anecdotes matter way more than stupid shit like "omnipotent deity".

>>52465029
It's less "words have power" and more "words are math and math has power," which is still pretty Dwarf-ish.

>>52465042
I don't know, could he? :^)

>>52464841
>They're gnomes, not a fucking religion. They're a different SPECIES to humans, assimilation isn't a risk because it's not possible.

This depends on if the gnomes can interbreed with humans (without overt magical interference) then they are, by definition, human beings.

Technically most DnD 'core races' are just phenotypes or subclades of the species as evidenced various instances of hybridization.

File: Breeding.jpg (554KB, 904x1229px) Image search: [Google]

554KB, 904x1229px

>>52465279
To the chart!

>>52465412
What do you know, they actually can't breed with humans.

>>52465042
The rules of the Talmud are considered immutable in Judaism. Not even God is allowed to just change the rules like that. He gave commandments to the Jews and they agreed to follow them, that was the deal no take-backs. Jews worship God but they follow the Talmud.

>>52462893

If Dwarfs were exactly like Jews in everyway, then they wouldn't be Dwarfs they'd be Jews wouldn't they.

>>52465473
>The rules of the Talmud are considered immutable in Judaism.

No, not really. In fact, the "Rules of the Talmud" themselves are the product of arguments between Rabbis.

> Jews worship God but they follow the Talmud.

This statement isn't even wrong, it's just sans meaning. The Talmud is itself an extension of the revealed scriptures; the closest analogue I can think of is it's a corpus of common law, something akin to what the Supreme Court does in the United States.

>>52464999
That is my favorite Jewish story.

On that day, Rabbi Eliezer put forward all the arguments in the world, but the Sages did not accept them.

"Finally, he said to them, 'If the halakha is according to me, let that carobtree prove it.'

"He pointed to a nearby carob-tree, which then moved from its place a hundred cubits, and some say, four hundred cubits. They said to him 'One cannot bring a proof from the moving of a carob-tree.'

"Said Rabbi Eliezer, 'If the halakha is according to me, may that stream of water prove it.'

"The stream of water then turned and flowed in the opposite direction.

"They said to him, 'One cannot bring a proof from the behavior of a stream of water.'

"Said Rabbi Eliezer, 'If the halakha is according to me, may the walls of the House of Study prove it.'

"The walls of the House of Study began to bend inward. Rabbi Joshua then rose up and rebuked the walls of the House of Study, 'If the students of the Wise argue with one another in halakha," he said, "what right have you to interfere?'

"In honor of Rabbi Joshua, the walls ceased to bend inward; but in honor of Rabbi Eliezer, they did not straighten up, and they remain bent to this day.

>>52464999
>>52465803


"Then, said Rabbi Eliezer to the Sages, 'If the halakha is according to me, may a proof come from Heaven.'

"Then a heavenly voice went forth and said, 'What have you to do with Rabbi Eliezer? The halakha is according to him in every place.'

"Then Rabbi Joshua rose up on his feet, and said, 'It is not in the heavens'.

"What did he mean by quoting this? Said Rabbi Jeremiah, 'He meant that since the Torah has been given already on Mount Sinai, we do not pay attention to a heavenly voice, for You have written in Your Torah, 'Decide according to the majority'.

"Rabbi Nathan met the prophet Elijah. He asked him, 'What was the Holy One, Blessed be He, doing in that hour?'

"Said Elijah, 'He was laughing and saying, "My children have defeated me, my children have defeated me."

It's an almost perfect demonstration of what Judaism is as a religion. Stubborn, argumentative, anal, eminently logical, willing to tell God himself that humans are the arbiters of his law and he has no place in discussions of scripture, then believe that God was fucking laughing about it and proud of them for it.

>>52465833
I've always been of the belief that the world, being imperfect, is a test for mankind. So I really like that ending, with god laughing in joy at Mankind's achievements.

>>52463386
Basketball used to be considered a Jewish sport before it was a black sport.

https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2013/11/25/when-jews-dominated-professional-basketball/

>>52463386
I know that there've been a fair number of Jewish strong-men in the past.

>>52462949
Kender are Halfings as played by people who don't know they're supposed to be Hobbits.

>>52462893
Tolkien wrote multiple drafts of a stern letter explaining to German censors how Dwarves weren't intended to be Jews.

>>52462993
>Witcher elves
>gypsies
...I don't see it at all

>>52465042
For the same reason we don't bring up rule 0 when we argue about D&D rules. the DM can do whatever they want, but that just shuts down the entire discussion.

>>52463749
>We knew how to read and write hebrew, and in medieval ages it was used to communicate between two Jewish communities that didn't speak the same language.

I've heard this is one of the things that led to the 'rich jew' stereotypes. Basically jews from all over Europe had any easier time communicating past language barriers because they shared a language, making it much easier to get information on the best markets, prices, exchange rates etc. which gave jewish merchants an advantage. As labour was heavily regulated and jews excluded from most jobs they often found themselves in the role of merchants and entrepenurs, where having information from far away lands was worth a lot, leading to many succesful jewish merchants and bankers. Naturally other people decided to attribute such succes to jewish being greedy and stingy.

>>52464999
>the rabbi just crosses his arms and goes "If I'm wrong, give a proper logical argument, all this miracle shit doesn't prove dick."
That's a man I can respect

>>52463429
And yet even in Biblical times there was a heavy belief in magic and its use throughout Palestine. That's like saying "Modern Americans don't use prostitutes or commit murder because those two things are against the law, and condemned by the Bible."

>>52463731

Do it like redwall, every race has its own British accent.

Dwarves are Scottish because fuck you. Halflings cornish. Humans cockney. Half Orcs Australian and real Orcs and goblinoids high caliber strine/bogan.

Dragons upper class london, kobolds are chavs.

Elves speak welsh.

>>52466396
Book of Job is pretty solid too but I'm definitely biased towards that

>>52469114
Didn't Tolkien actually say he imagined a couple of elven languages sounding like welsh

>even nowadays they believe in sorcery
No we don't.

>>52469176
>We
You fool, OP made this thread to expose the jews

You played you hand, he's coming for you

>>52469176
You don't need to believe when you know

>>52463363
Anon, that's the campaigns minimum.
>Not Jews emigrating by foot ask the way from Russia, complete with hostility at every turn and more hostility once you reach not Palestine.
>A criminal campaign focused on the actions of fantasy mossad and haganah. Smuggling, terrorism, Arms deals, set during one of the largest wars the world has ever seen and it's immediate aftermath
>Campaign during fantasy war for Independence, surrounded by hostile on all sides and facing a hostile colonial power, you need to arm and defend your settlements, break sieges, and come up with creative force multipliers

>>52462893
Dwarfs are Neanderthals.
Elves are Nazis
Humans are Jews.

>>52464798
So basically, Talmud is just ancient forum archives, including the flamewars and other shitposting.

>>52469441
Pretty much.

>tfw you will never understand how some of the idioms behind Talmudic insults developed.

>>52469441
which ancient scriptures aren't? Jews are just more up front about how much we argue about interpretations of holy texts.

>>52468823
I've never heard that one before. I'd say that it has more to do with jews getting better at business over time, rather than some minor advantage regarding language barriers.

>>52469573
From what I've heard, a lot of Talmud insults go "I heard a story from so-and-so about this-and-that..." and then proceed to describe an unflattering story.
Like, off the top of my mind, there's this one story a rabbi tells about the Emperor of Rome's brother, who was a sorcerer, who summoned ghosts from the underworld to ask about the punishment they were facing, and the ghost of this one specific guy said he spent eternity chin-deep in shit.
That's how Talmud insults are.

>>52469441
An archive of an FAQ/RPG forum for debating the RAW and RAI? If we consider the Torah to be the rulebook, then basically, yeah.

>>52468823
It also compounds with high Jewish literacy, and that some skills like medicine, law skills, comedy and trade a) don't need a load of land, and b) are very similar the world over

>>52462909
You're right, no gnomes are jews, whereas all of the dwarves are jews.

>>52463732
"Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do."

You know, anons, I thought this was half-joke, half-serious, but after all this talk about the Kalmud...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNtnN_DiP3o

>>52463289

Hebrew is hardly secret. There are classes for it everywhere.

It's not our fault Christians don't bother learning the language their own holy books are written in.

Also Jews are forbidden by Jewish law to practice magic. The two loopholes are, Wells, one is Kabbalah, which in d&d terms is more like clerical powers mixed with something philosophically a little like Chinese medicine. Studying kaballah is forbidden unless you are religiously devout, highly learned, and in middle age, and even then is discouraged. The version you hear about is a cult, it bears as much resemblance to real Kabbalah as Scientology does to psychiatry, or modern edgelord wiccans to the roman-era druids.

The other exception was a claim by maimonides that if magic really worked and didn't involve dealing with spirits, worshipping idols, or venerating a deity other than God, then it's just a form of science and might be permissible. Not everyone agrees with him. He was a great but controversial scholar, court physician to Saladin, and discovered allergies. He also argued that scientific literacy was necessary to understanding torah and therefore was a good deed.

Tolkien was drawing a parallel when he made the comparison. He never liked straight allegory. I personally think that a better parallel is to the Noldor.

>>52463436

No, he fought and bound them.

>>52463438

He's retelling the communist propaganda version.

>>52463567

My mistake, this is the OTHER communist propaganda version of the story. Berniebro, go back to /pol/.

>>52463684
>there are rabbinical provisions from three hundred years ago about the morality of sex robots and how that would differ between a robot with strong or weak ai

7th century, so thirteen hundred years ago. There's a talk by a rabbi on the chabad site talking about various implications of transhumanism: parahumans, genetic engineering, strong ai, and uplifted animals.

Judaism is basically the GURPS of religions.

>>52463386
1.) Tolkein has pretty much all but confirmed he based Dwarves on Judeo culture. He had a tremendous respect for Jews (this triggers the /pol/) and this was meant to be a positive

2.) There were many Jewish athletes in the time of Tolkein, it's less common today as Jews in the West have pretty much settled in high-education professions.

>>52463684
>there are rabbinical provisions from three hundred years ago about the morality of sex robots and how that would differ between a robot with strong or weak ai

Describe these please it is of great relevance to me

>>52465473

God is timeless. If He wanted to issue different commands, He'd have already done so.

In practical terms, the ones who always declaring unilaterally that the rules have changed are all on the human side of the Covenant. So Judaism has developed a resistance to memetics drift.

>>52465833
Reminds me of the golem Dorfl in Discworld. He refuses to accept any gods unless their existence can be proven by logical argument, and a bolt of lightning comes down and hits him dead-on.
He stands there red-hot and plinking and says "I Don't Call That Much Of An Argument."

>>52464659

Ah, my mistake. I guess that makes a lot of sense, actually.

I'll need to do a little more research on Talmudic and Rabbinic traditions, but I kinda doubt that my players will dig too deeply into that stuff, especially since my players have yet to even come across a single Dwarf.

Still, it's nice to have these things ready for when the time comes.

>>52466396

There's a tenet called tikkun olam ("repairing the world"). Essentially it means that the world was left incomplete so that humans could participate in the act of Creation by helping finish it.

Tolkien and Christians see the world as essentially fallen from some primeval ideal state due to sin, and getting worse.

The Jewish view is that the world is fundamentally getting better (slowly and with many stumbles and setbacks).

That's part of why you have so many Jews who are old greats in science fiction, but so few who write fantasy. Fantasy is nostalgic, backward looking. Sci Fi is idealistic, forward looking. Jews appreciate history and tradition, but see history as a process of growth and advancement.

>>52474648
So to apply this to dwarves, we connect it to their skill in craft and manual labour, born from a philosophy of working to construct the world, which is getting better.

>>52474113
>Christians don't bother learning the language their own holy books are written in.
They do, Latin and English.

>>52463963
>>52464798
Throughout the ages, Judaism has made it a tradition to encourage its learned men (rabbis and non-rabbis) to be as competitively nerdy about the Torah as possible.

Arguably that's part of how its managed to survive so long.

So if I've learned anything from this thread, it's that rabbis are relentless rules lawyers who will continue to pull out obscure splatbooks to justify things along the RAW and some of their holy texts are recordings of ancient nitpicky debate forums.

That sounds pretty rad actually.

>>52474113
>>52474877
Actually the new testament was largely written in Greek

>>52463567
I don't think the gnomish genocide happened. It was just poor logistics and Dwarfen propaganda

>>52474846
Which is ironic, since Dwarves are usually really big on history and the past.

>>52475768
That's quite a change then. Dwarves being forward thinkers than being obsessed with the past. Their lawful practices not an adherence to tradition but as a method of ensuring the work being done building the world is done properly.

Would this mean any large scale construction would have to be approved by the priesthood, since they being close to the gods know part of the intended design?

>>52475911
Tikun Olam isn't an actual physical repairing of the world; it's more like a spiritual repair of the world, through good deeds and other enlightening tasks.

That being said, it would probably be a lot cooler for a setting if it was literally physical constructions to make the world better. You know, stuff like aqueducts, safe roads, schools, laboratories, observatories, etc.

In that case, I'd guess that the (rune)priesthood take a hand-off approach to the whole thing. They're probably like "here's a good guideline of what you can build to make the world better. Every now and then, we're gonna commission a special construction that's gonna be super cool and shit because we understand this stuff, but most of the time we're just gonna be pointlessly debating which kind of construction is better than other kinds like the rules-lawyering rabbis that we are."

>>52476044
Sounds awesome and brings in the conflict of what constructions can be considered holy.

Is the massive statue the king of the hold is commissioning of himself a holy work? Would it be if the King donated generously to the faith?

File: dwarf craft-sage.jpg (101KB, 1000x775px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 1000x775px

>>52476148
>"The sages of the Copper school of thought once built a ladder, and on each rung they wrote what was most important to an individual, from top to bottom, and therefore what should be built"
>"The third-from-the-top rung listed protection, and it is known by even the most pacifistic dwarfs that a defensive army is needed for peace."
>"The second-from-the-top rung listed food and water, for famine is a terrible thing that spreads death and misery in its wake."
>"What was at the top rung, you ask? What could be more important than food and water? Why, hope, of course! That is why the Copper sages always said that a community is not truly a community until it has a grand hall, where dwarves may meet and sing."
>"So to ask if a king's statue is holy, ask yourself how the people see the king. Is he a benevolent ruler, who is popular among his people, brings them together, and brings them hope? Then there is no reason the king's statue ISN'T holy!"

>>52476321
To list the various Dwarf Schools of Thought...

>Copper sages believe that the spirit and its expression is the most holy. They see holiness in things that make people happy, like theatres, toyshops, and breweries. They host the best feasts of all the sages."
>"Silver sages believe that prosperity is a sign of a holy world. They see holiness in trade posts, orderly cities, credit-houses, and sanitation. They are considered to be the most down-to-ear of all the sages"
>"Gold sages believe holiness can be found in the pursuit of knowledge. They see holiness in schools, libraries, laboratories, and museums. They are known the most creative of all the sages"
>"Iron sages believe holiness is inherent in life, and in life's safekeeping. They see holiness in arsenals, police-stations, courts of law, and farms. They are the sages most involved in Dwarven politics."

If any of you wanna add their own Dwarven Schools of Thought, feel free to make your own. I think I've covered everything, but I might have missed something.

>>52462949
>Specifically the shitty yuropoor gypsies.

As opposed to what other kind of gypsy? I've never heard of them being a group outside of Europe.

>>52476808
That's cause they got kicked out of india

>>52463062

It's literally the plot of the movie Wizards

File: 1472238339417.jpg (110KB, 535x800px) Image search: [Google]

110KB, 535x800px

>>52474290
Would you happen to have a link?

>>52477141
Different anon but I think it has something to do with golems.

>>52476808
America has more Gypsies than any other country. But that's mostly because of the size of our population. I think we have proportionately more than most Western European nations, but not by much. And they're pretty well assimilated here

>>52474290
Except that evangelism is prohibited for Jews.

>>52477351
It's discouradged, not prohibited. There are two main reasons for this.
1. There's no point. According to Judaism, non-Jews go to heaven and can live a life just as righteous as a Jew.
2. Bad things happen to Jews. Jews have traditionally been second-class citizens wherever they've lived, so it's not in someone's best interest to become Jewish.

>>52463289
>They live alongside humans
But thats wrong tho

Dwarves in lotr have their own city states

File: gogol hutz.jpg (40KB, 252x358px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 252x358px

>>52477338
fuck me man I wish our gibboes were even half as cool as this man

>>52469656
the romans were pretty upfront about it as well, jews aren't anything special. They're jsut still around

>>52462893
>>52463112
and this seems to be an issue that's lessened with progressive editions.

It more seems now that dwarves use plenty of magic, it's just that they're very practical and conservative about their magic and refrain from flashier methods.

Go into a dwarven settlement and take a close look at the lighting: Yes, it's fire, but fuels are magically created to be smokeless, burn colder, brighter, and slower than conventional fuels.

Look at the dwarven wizard and what is he likely focused on: transmutation. The underground can be a harsh place, so magic is often looked to as part of the resource recycling process than a way to impress crowds.

Check the Royal Guard's weapons, sure, they don't have a lightning enchantment on them, but what they are enchanted with is to almost never need maintenance and be sturdy enough to hold up a collapsing ceiling.

THAT is dwarven magic: finding practical solutions to everyday problems.

Aren't two of the most important objects in Judaism a magical gem breastplate and a gem cutting tool?

>>52469176
The ultra orthodox do. You think all those talismans against evil eye hanging on their walls are for decoration? Shit, backnin Ariel Sharon's days there was a big hoolabaloo in Israel about a bunch of religious wackos who gathered together around bonefires and sacrificed goats or some shit trying to put a kabbalistic curse on him for trying to leave the settlements.

>>52477476
But notice how he now lives in America?

>>52463112
>Dwarves use different sorts of magic all the time in Middle-Earth
Like what?
Because the only thing I can think of is the door to Moria and "runes of power" mentioned in Gimli's song.

>>52469114
Bohurr, you'm Helfs do be a-talking funny loik. Oi carn't unnerstan' a wurd 'ee be sayen burr no!

>>52477923
The "breastplate" you're thinking of is the Hoshen, which was literally a huge ass golden plate worn by the High Priest like a necklace which was large enough to cover the whole chest (and probably weighed a fuckton). It was studded with 12 gems, each representing one of the tribes of Israel.

The gem cutting tool is the Shamir, a tiny worm whose gaze could cut through any material (except lead, which God made so that the Shamir could be contained in something). It was used by God to cut the gems for the Hoshen and latter retrieved by King Solomon to cut the stones for the holy temple, since God specified no iron tools be used in its construction (iron being the substance of war and thus inherently unholy, and would taint the temple).

>>52462893
They're only very loosely jew relevant in Tolkien because of the whole wanderers exiled from their home element, their miserly antiheroic greed, and the way their origin lied in Aule's good natured defiance in creating them, but that's about it.

In most campaigns there will be nothing jew related about them.

>>52478679

>Like what?

Like the magical harp Thorin had, or those magical toys they make for the Hobbits for Bilbo's party in the Fellowship of the Ring, or that door in the side of the mountain in the Hobbit, or the map that spells out where the door is which only has its runes visibile under certain types of moonlight, or the unnamed spells they bury the Trolls treasure with, or the magic weapons and armor they make in the silmarillion. Oh, and let's not forget talking to ravens.

That's off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.

>>52479282
pipe, not harp. I'm not sure why I conflated the two.

>>52475768
>>52475911
Knowing the history would still be pretty important, but yeah, it's a cool change

>>52476321
>>52476473
>Bronze sages believe that above all else holiness endures, that it is flexible, changeable, and mixture is more than the sum of its parts. They see holiness in lodgings, forums, outposts, docks and expatriate communities. They are known to be the most travelled of all the sages

>>52479282
I assumed Gandalf placed the wards on their loot and the ravens are clearly the supernatural element in that connection, but I'll give you the rest.
Still feels more like enhanced crafting though...

>>52474877

Those are translations. You don't think that Jesus spoke English, do you? He might have known Latin, but it wouldn't have been a daily language for him either. If you're reading the originals, what Christians call the Old Testament was written in Hebrew. Some later stuff was written in Aramaic, which was the daily language of Judea in those days. Most of the New Testament was written in Attic Greek.

The Vulgate Bible and the King James Bible were both translations. In the era when it was made, vernacular bibles were very controversial. The Vulgate was considered an "inspired" translation, but obviously it was just a vernacular bible for its own age. If all you know is Latin, you're not reading the Bible in its original.

If you're a Christian, ancient Greek opens up the chance to read your most sacred texts in their original, plus opens the doors to the entire world of classical philosophy.

>>52479454
Not him, but it was Koine Greek, not Attic Greek for the NT stuff.

>>52475497

Obviously I was talking about the five books of Moses and other Jewish holy books that the Christians canonized into their Bible. You're right that Christian original holy texts are mostly in Greek.

>>52475768

So are Jews. The issue isn't reverence for history and tradition, which Jews are famous for. It's the basic question of, "Is the world getting better or worse overall?"

Part of the reverence for history stems from a recognition of how bad things were, and how greatly we appreciate and still benefit even today from the contributions made by the great scholars and heroes of long ago.

>>52462893
>muh jews
back in the days the first reply would have been
>sage goes in all fields

>>52476148

Interesting idea! But I think statues and other representational art is out. Too close to idolatry. But king bronzebeard might work himself into a large work by having a huge bronze waterfall or something is a reference to the king without being an actual statue of him.

Donations to the faith would be interesting, but remember that there won't be a single unified church. A lot of religions in RPGs are not-catholics with huge global hierarchies and departments and clear lines of command. Instead Judaism like most religions has local organizations and religious officiants, and some who have immense prestige among their peers, but no actual hierarchy. Kind of like inquisitors in 40k.

>>52479765
>Too close to idolatry
They don't have to be 100% Jews, and Dwarves do a lot of good statuary. But that's just an opinion.

Agree on the faith thing though - individual communities with temples and libraries of peers and ad-hoc gatherings are a lot rarer in fiction, so I think they're kind of under-explored (as well as judiasm, it's also how a lot of islam does it, in both you get "respected elder #23's commentaries on X portion of the holy law" and a lot of back-and-forth debate)

And it still leaves plenty of space open for religious warrior orders and things

>>52479633
and instead we had a delightful and educational discussion

Gnomes fit better as Jews, due to their focus on magic and technology and jewelry. Plus, the connection to burrowing animals (did you know that sables were considered a "particularly Jewish" animal throughout a lot of history due to Jewish traders' control of the fur trade from Siberia to Central Europe?).

And I don't think this has to mean they can't have a warrior culture as well. Gnomes always got a Con bonus and IIRC in the 5th edition they don't get a Str penalty either. And being small size is more of a bonus than a penalty in combat anyway.

I'd be pretty scared of an army of gnomes with crossbows and pikes and shit popping out of the ground everywhere. Especially with them using illusions and shit to wreck havoc among the enemy.

>>52477448
u miss da joke. Joke is, GURPS always push GURPS for everything

>>52479888
>I'd be pretty scared of an army of gnomes with crossbows and pikes and shit popping out of the ground everywhere. Especially with them using illusions and shit to wreck havoc among the enemy.

Guerilla fighting and fuck you fortresses are pretty much Gnome style too. Gnomes would totally be the type to hide in a hidden mountaintop fortress carved into the rock and hidden with illusion magic.

>>52469114
Orcs speak french, Elves Italian, Dorfs German.

>>52479919
>Elves
>Italian
>Not German
>Elves
>the fucking norse ubermenschen
>Italian

Lmao ok nerd

>>52473760

underrated

>>52462893
Dorfs are slavs

>booze
>sturdy, reliable crafts
>greed
>hirsute
>harsh, guttural language
>everything written in weird runes
>strange, complicated religion no one from outside really understands
>associated with cold mountains
>burning hatred for goblinoids (turks)

>>52479919
But elf-made things are both beautiful and functional, anon. The dagos make pretty things that break immediately.

>>52479937
>>52479967
Orcs smells like the french. The Dorfs hate everything including each others like the Germans. Elves were culturally ahead but their cities always gets Orced and Dorfed, like the Italian City States.

>>52479984
>The Dorfs hate everything including each others like the Germans

You're thinking of the Scots.

>Elves were culturally ahead but their cities always gets Orced and Dorfed, like the Italian City States.
>Italy
>Culturally ahead

>>52479989
The smelly Scots can't build anything worth shit. At least the cannonball born angry Krauts can forge arms and armor like its no one's business. Also base this during the early Renaissance.

>>52477537
I'd argue that Judaism attempts to make arguing about scripture standard behavior for all Jews, or at the very minimum all male Jews over the age of 13. Encouraging everyone to argue like nerds is fairly unusual among religions, I believe.

>>52479633
Good thing those days are over

>>52479937
Tolkien said they sounded welsh in his head

>>52476473

I'd shy away from making things too neat and organized. Make those views be streams of thought with famous sages associated each School of thought, but clerics all draw from all of them in actual day to day practice.

In fact, with worldbuilding in general, get used to saying "actually it's more complicated than that".

>>52480005
>Can't build anything worth shit

File: Eilean Donan Castle – Scotland _ World for Travel.jpg (183KB, 1162x796px) Image search: [Google]

183KB, 1162x796px

>>52480005
Good one fucking idiot.

>>52479765
>>52479833
Charity is important in Judaism, but that's common in most religions. Something interesting about Judaism is the belief that you can do charity in someone else's name, so that they can have a better deal in the afterlife. It's very common for richer Jews that, when someone important to them dies, they donate something to the community like a bench or a Torah scroll (which are ludicrously expensive) and write on it "donated in honour of so-and-so."
I'd imagine, then, that the King's statue might be posthumously built by his son or the rest of the community.

>>52480717
The thing about the Schools of Thought is, they're literal schools. As in, some famous sage who knew his shit started them in the past, gathered students, and the students themselves became knowledgable enough that the School became a full-fledged faction. There are literally dozens of minor Schools of Thought.

File: Scottish Claymore With Scabbard - DS-1319 by Medieval Collectibles.png (101KB, 700x700px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 700x700px

>>52480005
Weren't the Scots good at making swords like Claymores, daggers like the skean dhubh, etc. You can't just say "Germans are good at weapon and armour making, Scots weren't." This isn't like a video game where one "race" is good at something and the other is good at something else.

>>52479471

Ooops... Thanks for correcting me

>>52479633
Cry harder, you marxist fuck. You can't hide your shit anymore.

>>52479633

And back in the days before then you'd have had a good conversation.

In the past few weeks, we've had several great threads that were reminiscent of the /tg/ of old. Bravo, anons!

>>52463732
>Build an entire entertainment industry fueled by pedophilia to appease Moloch.
>Mysticism doesn't work.

>>52480137
Only the asshole ultra-orthodox Jews believe that everyone should study, and I say fuck those oven-dodgers.

>>52481276

Orc detected.

Even reform Jews believe that Torah study is a mitzvah (literally "commandment", but the connotation is good deed). And even totally non-observant culturally Jewish families value and treasure secular scholarship. Not everyone can be a scholar, not everyone can even be educated, but you'd be an asshole not to see its value and want as much as you can learn for yourself and your kids.

>>52481469
Scholarship = good
Only scholarship without a job or supporting your family ≠ good

>>52480806
>I'd imagine, then, that the King's statue might be posthumously built by his son or the rest of the community.
Could it also serves as examples? "Remember King Whatever and learn from his live"? Jews have cautionary tales like everyone, but saint like figures?

>>52481853
Jews don't have saint-like figures, but it doesn't have to be viewed in a spiritual context. If a community were to build a statue of their dead king as an inspiring tale, it's likely it owuld be seen in a secular context, and only by the poeple of that community (unless of course this king was some awesome guy known and respected by all the dwarves).

>>52481948
You kind of have saint like figures. Stories about folks like Chanina Bar Abba and other Gemara traveling holy men are quite similar to Christian saint stories.

>>52481995
They're similar, but trust me, they're treated very differently to saints.

>>52481528

True! But it's always worthy of respect, and in this era it's cheap and easily acquired.

>>52473760
this.

>>52482033
How so? You have the same sort of stories of traveling miracles, and you definitely have notions of intercessionism for prayer (The very first sub-breacha in the Shemonah Esrei is an invokation of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and stories abound of Patriarchs and Moses and other holy figures praying for Israel while dead and in heaven). I'm not seeing too much of a difference.

>>52480825
Claymores are shit. They often bend and snap due to the steel being thin and light. A Zweihander would break that.

File: enhanced-buzz-wide-26857-1394583425-11.jpg (545KB, 990x619px) Image search: [Google]

545KB, 990x619px

>>52480744
>that
>worth anything
Hey Gaelic cow-fucker! This isn't the 9th century anymore.

>>52482167
There's a difference between Bar Abba and Abraham. I Judaism, to be someone worth mentioning in a prayer, you basically have to be a prophet, or someone who was so holy that you received prophecy. The age of prophecy ended in 520BC with Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi; mankind has not needed other prophets since then.

>>52482211
A claymore is just a certain way of constructing a hilt. You can make claymore daggers and claymore greatswords. And a zweihander is just a German name for two-handed sword literally, basically a greatsword.

Stop talking about shit you don't know shit about.

>>52482211
How do you break another guy's sword?
Unlees he coutiously braces it against a hard surface for you?

>>52482505
We were talking about the Claymore two hander which is shit compared to other varieties of the thing. Read in context nigger.

You're not disproving the fact that Scots were shits, that got seated in a corner along with Ireland.

>>52469176
haredim certainly do. but then again some of the chabadniks think the Rebbe is alive and still living there @ 770 Eastern Parkway (but with a spell of invisibility like Harry Potter).

>>52482651
>Unlees he coutiously braces it against a hard surface for you?
Happens more often than you think along with weapon breakage. Good steel would stand a good beating but not indestructible you can't do a fancy riposte when your stuck tight in the front and a heavy halberd about to smack you in the face.

>>52482710
Why does every jewish temple operate like a hidden cult?

>>52482749
A culture with a long history of being unpopular with the surrounding culture, and a bit of an ongoing siege mentality.

>>52478722
Go back to Critical Role Grog.

>>52474174
Sure sounds like sorcery to me.

>>52483117
That's how Moles talk in Redwall, anon.

It's literally a quote from the Formole.

>>52463062
>neighbors
You don't know much about the Israeli-Palestine conflict do you?

>>52483899

So pallies "deal with demons", too?

>>52462893
George Lucas didn't invent Dwarfs, so they are not made to conform to any specific racial stereotype.

>>52468823
It's not a stereotype, they do earn more on average. When are people going to talk about the gentile gap? I'm being oppressed!

>>52463436
>>52474174
Literally no one thinks that document is authentic.

>>52479394
Rune magic is pretty much that

>>52479937

All the influential/badass/notable elves in Tolkien's books, barring Galadriel and Glorfindel, had dark hair. Feanor, Fingolfin, Elrond, Gil-galad, Legolas, Arwen, etc.

I bet it upsets you.

>>52484056
All the time, in many campaigns.

I'm pretty /pol/ but I think I might have a respect for Jews now

>>52474877
Found the KJV-Onlyist.

>>52463434
Using God's name was perfectly acceptable because it was believing in god's power

magic practice was considered putting oneself before god and relying on their own power and not god's. Therefore bad.

File: Yvan Yanov Yvanovsky.png (190KB, 600x849px) Image search: [Google]

190KB, 600x849px

>>52479946

>>52462893
Well, higher races are defined by magic and Tolkien magic is like mystical charisma as well.

>>52493726
Well, it's true that Jews are anything but charismatic...

>>52464659
>Mostly burn-sacrifices, actually. Blood is considered unkosher in Judaism, and isn't used ins sacrifices.
That's a fairly recent development. Ancient tradition referenced in both Genesis and Leviticus calls for casting blood to the ground for God.

Blood was unkosher because it wasn't for man.

As far as I can tell, dwarfs lacking magical aptitude and being antagonistic towards wizardry in general was invented to balance them for Warhammer Fantasy 4th Edition. Warhammer Fantasy 3rd Edition had dwarf wizards and Citadel made dwarf wizard miniatures until the great makeover of ´92.

If anyone can provide any earlier examples of diminutive, magic-hating ancient Israelites, I'm all ears (assuming I find this thread again).

>>52462893
>If dwarfs are Jews
they aren't. Gnomes are Jews.

Looks like I stand to correct myself. Gygax did the same thing for early D&D. Still, it's just something game designers did to balance them and then caught on as others imitated. Like their mythological counterparts, Tolkien's tiny gentiles regularly churn out magical items, including the gates to their very kingdom. Additionally, keep in mind that modern fantasy magic was invented for D&D, loosely based on the sci-fi magic of Vance's Dying Earth stories, and is very different from the magic envisioned by Tolkien in his stories.

>>52463567
>Actually believing that Neturei Karta represent a significant part of the pre-Israel Jewish population

Whew, lad

>>52495155
What's Neturei Karta?

>>52464659
>>52494858
Well the Mulk Baal sacrifices of first born males to Baal Hamon in Carthage were burnt offerings for what it's worth.

>>52462893
Because in those sttings magic isn't mysticism. Magic takes effort. It takes studying. It takes years to master.

File: Dwarves-vs-Goblins.jpg (209KB, 873x627px) Image search: [Google]

209KB, 873x627px

>>52462893
Dwarves represent the good Jewish stereotypes: hard-working, family men, take hardship in stride, master craftsmen and jewellers, have lost their homeland, thrifty.

Goblins reflect the negative Jewish stereotypes: greedy, cowardly, perfidious, sneaky, ugly, power hungry, xenophobic.

Is it any wonder that Dwarves and Goblins are natural enemies in most settings?

>>52494858
No, the bible is fairly clear on the fact that blood is unkosher because that's where the soul is.

>>52496559
Mulk Baal was a volcano god; of course he had burnt offerings. Those guys went pretty far with the whole burnt-offering thing, though. There were some rituals that called for the high priest removing his own eye with a hot knife to get Baal's favor.

File: 1481504949163.jpg (93KB, 658x481px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 658x481px

>>52469166

he used a combination of Germanic languages from Northern Europe, especially Swedish, welsh, and some minor Finnish influences, his goal with his legendarily was to give Britain an ancient mythology which he saw lost after Rome and William the conqueror invaded the isles and supplanted the native mythological and religious traditions of the native peoples.

>>52497118
>William the conqueror invaded the isles and supplanted the native mythological and religious traditions of the native peoples.
More like the other way around, what with the French authors writing novels about a Cornish king

>>52496379
Not him, but they're an Israeli political party that essentially says they should disband Israel as a state and turn the country over to Jordan. The rest of Israel thinks they're nuts.

>>52497238

injecting it with their own traditions, making it a mix rather than the original. the closest thing left is the welsh legends, and even they have a french influence. besides, I was not talking about Arthur and company, but the myths from pre-roman (arguably celtic) Britain.

>>52496847
Were there many jewish civil wars?

>No one mentioned Khuzdul.

>>52499905
>>52463289

>>52499046
A few. During the siege of Jerusalem, for example, there were a lot of Jewish factions fighting against each other within the city.

>>52500232
Not as many as you'd think given their propensity towards argument, though.

>>52500232
Wow, reading a little, some of that sounds like a real shitshow.
Burning your food to get an intercession from god (and to convince people to fight more actively) is a terrible idea

>>52504695
Yup. The siege of Jerusalem lasted 8 months with internal fighting; If the zealots hadn't been such fucking idiots, who knows what would have happened.

File: Moses.jpg (32KB, 374x500px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 374x500px

On the topic of the occult and mysticism pertaining to Judaism and the Middle East.

A rabbi historian and lecturer argued that Moses was closer to a magician than an actual prophet; There was little difference between a priest and a magician back in ancient times, the latter title being more so an insult given to those of supposedly false faith and disagreeable beliefs. The split of the two is a very westernized invention further impacted by D&D and the classifications of wizards & clerics.

http://ejmmm2007.blogspot.ca/2009/01/moses-magician.html

>>52501793
They have proper arguments so they won't have to resort to civil war every time they disagree

>>52509441
Dude, no. The Western concept of magic is ultimately derived from Neoplatonism.

>>52497118
>he used a combination of Germanic languages from Northern Europe, especially Swedish, welsh, and some minor Finnish influences
>welsh
>finnish
>germanic

Also, the Finnish influence is very, very large and not at all minor.

>>52511631
Wanna bet he's a vikingboo?

>>52511614
That's actually debateable, and entirely not what he/she was even getting at.

>>52511654

Oh, I'm sure he is. Anyone who says that Finnish was but a minor influence and SWEDISH was a major one is definitely some sort of ignorant nordic/vikingboo.

>The ingredients in Quenya are various, but worked out into a self-consistent character not precisely like any language that I know. Finnish, which I came across when I first begun to construct a 'mythology' was a dominant influence, but that has been much reduced [now in late Quenya]. It survives in some features: such as the absence of any consonant combinations initially, the absence of the voiced stops b, d, g (except in mb, nd, ng, ld, rd, which are favoured) and the fondness for the ending -inen, -ainen, -oinen, also in some points of grammar, such as the inflexional endings -sse (rest at or in), -nna (movement to, towards), and -llo (movement from); the personal possessives are also expressed by suffixes; there is no gender.

Straight from Tolkien.

>>52511679
I recall Tolkien said he was hugely disappointed in Finnish after hearing it in the spoken form for the first time.

>>52511717

That doesn't change anything. Finnish language and mythology (Kalevala) still had a very, very strong influence on Tolkien's work.

>>52507289
survived 8 months against 5 fucking roman legions - 80,000 Roman soldiers. Caesar needed about 25,000 to conquer Britain.

>>52511660
Try early Bronze Age Egyptian mysticism

>>52512618
That's Neoplatonism you retard

>>52488042
>authentic
And what is that supposed to mean in the context of religious scripture? That it wasn't made by a particular subset of crazed madmen with no evidence for their hallucinations? C'mon now, none of you religious fucks actually know who wrote what

File: Flavor-Flav-81.jpg (29KB, 366x400px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 366x400px

>>52479137
>a huge ass golden plate worn by the High Priest like a necklace which was large enough to cover the whole chest (and probably weighed a fuckton). It was studded with 12 gems,
What does that description remind me of?

>>52514254
The Walls were huge. Fuckhuge.
If the jews were all united they would have forced the Romans to negotiate, probably a vassalage to make the Judea to a state.

The Romans had a lot of legionnaires but they would have proffered terms to casualties, there is also the fact that the siege happened during Nero's last days and his death. Rome was on the brink of collapse, with rebellions and full civil was on the horizon.

>>52511717
Finnish looks like elegant Elven songs, but sounds like brutal Orcish barking.

>>52515265
Finnish is pretty pleasant on the ears, you just have to slow it down quite a lot.

>>52514254
a demon makes references to someone who dies on a cross being the only thing that can kill him. That method of execution would not be invented for centuries.

>>52514493
Didn't they all ragequit and kill themselves because the legion was inches from winning?

>>52517471
That was Masada

>>52496934
Mulk Baal is a type of sacrifice not a god and I don't see where you get that Baal Hamon is a volcano god.

>>52517471
They didn't want to be made slaves. You know, cause the whole Egypt thing.

>>52517656
Maybe I'm confusing Ba'als. There were a lot of cultures who called their god Ba'al; the word just meant "master."

>>52517730
What if I told you that Christians call their god Allah?

>>52517784
I'm certain that Coptics who speak arabic call their god Allah, while the others do not. The difference is, Ba'al meant "master" in more than one language.

File: lord_s_prayer_arabic_calligraphy_by_marahuta-d6zjlei.jpg (290KB, 886x901px) Image search: [Google]

290KB, 886x901px

>>52517784
>What if I told you that Christians call their god Allah?
Arab ones do.

While Judaism doesn't officially endorse ancestor worship, there's a curious bit of ritualistic veneration of great past rabbinical sages. They are actually invoked ritually, with the phrase "Our Sages, Their Memory Be Blessed [said this or that", usually when dispensing advice.

>>52517784
Arabic ones do. It's no more contradictory than a mexican christian saying "Dios" instead of "God"

>>52483030
Also a long history of local religious leaders having the power of life and death over people in their communities.

>>52513892
There's more to Western esotericism than Neoplatonism, anon.

File: jew mage.jpg (41KB, 620x349px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 620x349px

>>52509441
I always think of Wizardry when I think of the Jews. Their culture and history can back it up too.

These kinds of threads are why I love /tg/

I've learned so much about judaism.