Should wizards and sages fully understand how the world works

>>52415896
Depends on what you are doing with them.

In other words, depends on the setting.

>>52415896
Yes.

>>>/lit/

>>52421616
Not even once

>>52415896
The "younger" ones think they're getting close. The older ones just want to see how close they can get.

>>52415896
They should almost automatically know the basic physics of your world. Such as if the world is flat or round, this is an observable trait in the world that can be calculated to see what the curvature of the earth is. It's ridiculous to think that people that spend their lives studying don't know enough about math and science to have at least a basic understanding of the world. I find when making my setting that I pick a period in our own history and whatever the smartest people in that era knew, the studious characters in your setting should also know (or potentially know) about the world they live in.

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Wizards should know much about magic and esoteric concepts, but little to nothing of "common" knowledge and what they do know is almost entirely academic. Think Harry Potter type wizards. Despite the virtual miracles they can perform they are ignorant of politics, finance, laws, agriculture, engineering or social trends.

However they may possess knowledge of topics such as astronomy, chemistry, advanced mathematics, ancient history, geology, and quantum mechanics. Basically nothing that could help your average person in everyday life.

Sound familiar?

>>52415896
I like them as polymaths, but not having complete understanding. Even my god of knowledge and spells admits he doesn't knows everything and being wrong sometimes.

The ones that do get the world better perform wonders, and their nation became rich acting as intermediaries of half the global trading because of their portal ntework.

>>52423774
>>52422923
>>52415896

It would depend on the setting. If the setting in a Magistocracy then the wizards sure as hell would know politics and be very terrifying at it. If the setting is like a more Bronze age bent the wizards might be marginalized and fringe while the Priesthood holds all the political power.

>>52424680
A magistocracy where the wizards can't into politics sounds fantastic.

>>52425678
Now, how would that work? Power Mad Oligarchs handing down nonsensical orders and delegating making it function to their mundane underlings?

>>52425767
And every now and then a wizard decides to get some "hands on" involvement in whatever decision or project is going on.
Sometimes they even notices or depose an non-magical oligarch (or an uppity apprentice).

>>52415896
>Should wizards and sages fully understand how the world works or just have an incomplete picture of it, sometimes warped in superstition?
The latter. They aren't some special omniscient beings separate from the races, but people with a bit of learning in the mystical arts. They aren't scientists with access to each others stores of knowledge but tend to be lone crazies investigating various specific phenomena that interests them.

Some might gather together to share info but they are still just premodern peoples grasping about with tools we don't have.

I like D&D and how it represents this. A wizard usually puts ranks in the various knowledge skills, which represent his accumulated learning in the various ways the world works that he has gained from researching, fighting, and simply being exposed to strange phenomena.

>>52415896
Magic should be consistent, not an excuse for random things to happen for no specific reason even if the existing rules go against them.

I have a feeling that's what the thread is really about, because the question you actually asked sounds like the kind of question where you've already decided on an answer and want to make your side look like the obviously superior option, even though the argument you're trying to win isn't actually reflected in the question.

>>52415896
Even magic must follow Gödel's incompleteness theorems.

>>52425894
>See here Edgar! This Sewer system is lacking in arcane spectacle, these metal pipes are just obstructing the flow of energy, if I quickly remove them...

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>>52423774
>>52423774
>>52423774
100 times this, Excerpts of the recovered Inventory from expedition to the Barrier peaks in Dragon magazine show sages to be, basically fucking clueless.

Have a shitty Arcane Ipad. A real Ipad would be like, the most sought after magical item ever for storage capacity Alone.

>>52425767

The underlying idea behind most magic racked is that magic > adept political maneuvering, or else the people better at adept political maneuvering would be in charge rather than the mages.

Now I'm sure SOME mages are better at politics than others, but the whole idea of a magic racy is that mages are in charge BECAUSE they're mages first and something else second.

I like how Merlin is the most archtypical mage in our collective conciousness.

Everything works, man. It does not have to do with magic beams or rainbow colours all the time, right?

Fucking magnets, how do they work? (We don't know, still...). Wizards wouldn't discard technology unless it's not safe. (Or would a true wizard?)

Optimism, curiosity, hearty-and-good-willed nature towards all living things with a gentle, humourous and refined soul who isn't afraid to stand up against dark forces should it be nessesary would be the cornerstone in any wizards personality traits, if you ask me.

Someone who "know everything" is in any case is compared to you. Wisdom is knowing your true self and thus the world around you (good wizards know when and when not to act), and the knowledge behind that is purely the amount to known facts you'd deal with. Merlin would be in service to the king as a free, but independent man.