>Humans >Short-lived >No particular strengths >Not

They only win because the author wants them too, not because of any intrinsic qualities.

>>52410049
We fuck a lot and the overcome whatever with strength of numbers.

>>52410059
>We fuck a lot
Reminder that Australia the continent of Death, most biggest threat is a fluffy rodent that fucks constantly.

>>52410049
Because they don't have an afterlife and so care a lot more about mortal world shit

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Force of will and the drive to conquer

>>52410049
Writers fiat. Humans are the protagonist race, because humans are the readers. Most of the time the story happens when humans are in their heyday, while the other races best times, which were often still better and more epic, are of the past.

Any other explanation is just a self-fellating power-fantasy.

>>52410049
Because adaptability is OP as fuck.

>>52410059
>tfw humans are just orcs 2.0 Better version of the same basic shit

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>>52410049
it's generally because of human ability to unite around causes and fight like crazy when pushed to the wall. even worse, they can inspire the same in others.

It comes down to specialization. Other species are specialized for their environments. Dwarves are specialized for underground, halflings for farming, elves for forests and so on. Nobody will ever top them in their own environment, but that often comes at a cost somewhere else.

Humans are a generalist species that specializes in being second best in everything. Second best in strength behind the orcs, second best in breeding behind the goblins, second best in discipline behind the hobgoblins, second best in magic behind the elves, smithing behind the dwarves, farming behind the halflings, technology behind the gnomes.

Second best with no weaknesses other than a short lifespan - and what very good motivation to light a fire under someone's ass and get them to investigate immortality? Above all else an immortal adventuring human in a fantasy realm is a god waiting to happen. It's a matter of when, not if they transcend.


Outside of tabletop games we actually do have some amazing strengths as a species. We're the in the running for best long distance endurance species on the planet with dogs. We're smart as hell, expert communicators and we're grudge-bearing in the same way as honey badgers; actually a rarity in the animal kingdom. If someone screws with us we communicate that with other humans who then go fuck you up. We're natural adventurer factories because we naturally hold a grudge against everything. And in the fantasy realm you've got tons and tons of other races, magical creatures, monsters of every stripe and jerkass gods fucking with you all the time. Humanity would hold a grudge against each and every one of them.

And humanity is second best in everything with no weaknesses. Without leadership humans are prone to infighting and are a bunch of short lived, ignorant, directionless jackasses. With proper leadership humanity can accomplish literally ANYTHING. If anything has a weakness it will be found and exploited.

>>52410091
>Rabbits.
>Not poisonous toads (Cane toads).

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>>52410302
The humanity fuck yeah is two threads down the street, but I shed a tear, anon. I shed a tear

>>52410049
If you're talking about D&D, it's literally numbers, humans outnumber all the other races combined, and it tilts further if you consider half-elves and half-orcs as human.
They don't have a god to protect them, but they also don't have a god to keep their population under control. They spread like an infestation. Many humans live, many humans die. Their aggregate suffering is thus greater than all other races, a human racial god would be in perpetual agony.

Humans got grit

Writers write humans because the readers are humans. And because they're writing humans the humans tend to win, usually with very, very dubious reasoning behind it that boils down to 'everyone else sucks'.

>>52410049
Because we're still willing to do the things we suck at just to show the world we can.

>>52410049
>Why are humans so great, /tg/?
1. Because the story revolves around them = Plot Armor
2. Because the mecanics of the game are in their favour see giving them more advantages than other races

Others have weaknesses.
>Elves
>Flimsy, hippies

>Dwarves
>Short, drunk

>Halfling
>Even shorter

>Orc
>Dumb

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>>52410091
>>52410641
>Not emus

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>>52410302
>we're grudge-bearing in the same way as honey badgers; actually a rarity in the animal kingdom.
You forget elephants. Fuckers will sneak into your home in the dead of night, drag you out by the window and trample you till you're paste in the dirt.

They know not mercy or forgiveness.

>>52410058
>>52410174
>>52411183
>the writers
Pretty much this. Humans in multi-race settings are the equivalent of the "nerdy loser" protagonist who miraculously becomes the Chosen One so all the lesser beings will want his jock. In short, it's essentially wish fulfillment but on a larger, less personal scale.

>>52410175
this.
You know about evolution? As long as you can adapt, you're on top of the shit.

That's how it worked for Tolkien at least. Elves and Dwarves were bound to the old world, the old world was fading, men triumph.

>>52410049
>humans
>one of the longest living creatures (insects exist)
>breathes a fucking gas that is one of the most flammable substances in existence
>expels something that can destroy planets, poison countless organisms, and is hard as fuck to get rid off
>constantly fucks eachother over in wars and can easily destroy every single thing where they live with fearsome weapons offand mas destruction
>has invented methods to learn and exploit almost any resource in existence and laws that govern the universe
>is easily the most xenophobic and hateful shit to ever exist, and even knowing this, cant be arsed to fix i
>still can make works of art that can make even other species cry for their beauty
Humans are OP

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>>52411569
WE BREATH ROCKET FUEL AND DRINK POISON

>>52410049
>no magic
U wot

>>52411569
>most xenophobic
This, if we can't have sex with something or use it to make money, we kill it.

>>52411558
Humans in Tolkien literally inherited the earth; it had nothing to do with adaptability. The elves had their time and partied so hard hey nearly broke everything, so they stepped aside once they got tired. Dwarves weren't children of Eru and never had a time because fuck dwarves.

>>52411595
For the average HFY faggot fantasy-things are only good to be beat up by a male human fighter. It doesn't occur to them that they might use fantasy-things to help them in these fights.

Only when they can compare human mages to elf mages, that is.

>>52410049
When will spiders stop posting on imageboards to undermine humans? Its so obvious OP, get the fuck back to your web and eat filthy flies

>>52411592
Its true you weeabo

>>52411626
>The elves had their time and partied so hard hey nearly broke everything
We must have been reading different Tolkiens.

>>52410174
This. Show me a setting where humans are presented as non-standard. Bonus points if it actually makes it work.

>>52411945
>Show me a setting where humans are presented as non-standard.
I feel like the problem is that lots of people are instantly going to want to play the opposite of whatever humans are described as. If I say humans are defined by how social they are, and give them like a Mob Rule ability that gives them bonuses against Fear when in groups, people are going to say "but what about antisocial loners?" and complain that the racial stats don't reflect outliers.

>>52410049
Will and determination. Striving to make something of themselves because they live short lives.

>>52410049
More intelligent than orcs, tougher than elves, more agile than dwarves, procreate the fastest after goblins and orcs.

>>52412084
I see no logic in this. The longer you live, the more you want to make something out of yourself, because you have to deal with yourself much longer.

Also there are enough example in everday life of humans with no ambition and drive, it makes this notion laughable.

Because humans are fucking vicious, rabid monsters.

The orcs come back from raiding a human town to find their noncombatants nailed to crosses

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>>52411569
>HFY meme post

Humans exist due to a conspiracy among all other races' women, as humans are the only species to have evolved the concept of female sexual pleasure

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>>52411776
>he doesn't know about all the elf partying
Look at these guys. They're having the time of their lives.

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>>52411776
>>52412610
And here are some elvish frat boys preparing for a typical First Age hazing ritual.
Retrieve the Silmarils form the Dark Lord of Middle-Earth? Man those elves had some really crazy dares.

>>52410049
Human ambition uber alles.

>>52412260
>not liking oc hfy
Get out of my board spiders..! This is for human only

>>52412679
Fraternities used to actually resemble things like this in the real world.

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>>52412679
They even managed to drag some poor human sap into their shit. Guy had some mithril balls though, I'll give him that

>>52410049
Humans have the power to write fantasy novels and give themselves plot power

>>52410058
/thread

>>52410049
>Humans
>Short-lived
Relatively at best.
>No particular strengths
How so?
>Not as good as any other races in most regards
How so?
>No magic
Fucking when?

>>52410049
Elves are torches that burn long and illuminate. Dwarves are hot furnaces that are made for a specific purpose.

But humans? Humans can burn as bright as stars, but wink out just as fast.

>>52412843
Anon most stars burn for hundreds of millions of years

>>52412843
We have been staring at the same stars literally since the first human looked up

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>>52412843
Whoa.

>All this misanthropic faggots

HFY is a good thing even if the quality of writing is fucking awful in 80% of cases. Just to trigger you gay niggers. Nothing worse than this pessimistic "muh humans are so fragile and are the bitches of every fantasy race" at my table. You know why? Because not awknowledging human strengths is just as bad as the "we breath rocket fuel" shit.

It's silly how some people just think of every race having a single culture, and that is the reason for their successes and failures. For some reason they even include humans, which we see in the real world have a multitude of differing ideals and motivations. Seems kinda lazy.

>>52413051
That would require settings where they're written with actual strengths

>>52413051
>Nothing worse than this pessimistic "muh humans are so fragile and are the bitches of every fantasy race" at my table.
That's hot, though.

>>52413051
Oh yeah, we are great at endurance and can see pretty colors. Now tell me how this translates into
>MUH AMBITION, MUH WILLPOWER
>which never affects stats
>OUR CANDLES BURN LIKE 100 SUNS
Like I can't hear you masturbating while writing this shit.

>>52410049
I like to make humans the race with the most endurance and vigor.
This is because they are race best adapted to living in plains, compared to elves who live in forests, dwarves in mountains, and so on.
Also elves only live 50% more than humans, no no hundred years old teenagers, fuck that shit.

>>52412470
>He doesn't know about female bonobos

>>52410049
Humans tend to lack fatal flaws other races have or already fighting a decaying ancient empire.
>all the time
Long from that. There is plenty of works where people make fun out of humans and focus lots of plot point of insignificancy and patheticness of humans. Most of times such works even more of a retarded read.

I like stories where no race is inherently superior, and borders aren't defined by race. So you have countries full of many races, and conflicts aren't caused by some race or another wanting to destroy another race (for instance, humans).

>>52412878
>>52412843
>Stars
>Burning

Just cause it produces heat doesn't mean it's actually burning

Humans invented horse archery and subsequently rekt all the inferior races

>>52413461
>only indo-aryans are humans

>>52413547
All races have only one culture, haven't you heard?

>>52413137
>>52413051
>>52413080
>>52413101
>they don't remember old HFY
It didn't use to be memes, anon. It didn't use to be taking perfectly normal biological processes and pretending that they were ebin superpowers. It used to just be human dogged bloody-mindedness, unity and the occasional spark of (usually tactical) genius, it used to be the fact that we've had so much experience, not just fighting each other, but fighting total war out of desperation. It used to have some grimdark, too, especially in terms of what we're prepared to do to ourselves (or other people, especially our soldiers) to get an edge. It used to actually be good.

Halo, especially the novels, is basically a microcosm of HFY - originally starting off as ballsy holding the line against impossible odds, but ended up with fanfiction-tier WE CAN REVERSE ENGINEER ANYTHING WE ARE THE CHOSEN ONES REEEEEEEEEE XENO SCUM GET OUT

>>52410049
Mostly because humans are incredibly murderous and spiteful and tend to pass down how best to murder things. Become the strongest by being the best at killing.

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>>52414968
>because humans are incredibly murderous and spiteful
Humans are small time

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Aren't humans supposed to be pretty strong compared to dwarves, elves and halflings ?

If we think outside of the game stats

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>>52410049
It's called chainmail, and it is great. The clothes make the man, and what not.
>>52413547
Yeah, basically.

>>52415099
No.

>>52410049
high reproduction rate and/or high will to cooperate compared to other races. Everytime someone slays a dragon? the one hairless monkey that got lucky after endless waves its species that were burned to cinders or some other gruesome demise but also wittled down the dragon's sanity little by little just by trying again and again

>>52414945
I miss those days of Halo. I read Fall of Reach, which was written around the time Halo CE came out, not when the Reach game came out. Always hated Halo because I think Spartans are gay fucks who don't qualify as humans, but after reading that I realized Halo actually had a super grim fight for survival feel to it. Humans won because the Covies represented the "old word". They had heaped up sins greater than our meager infighting by enslaving other races. Unlike the other races we didn't have the opportunity to join in enslavement. The Covies waged their war unknowingly fighting for the sin of their rulers to hide the falsehood of their religion and when things came to a head, the tables turned. Ironically when humanity is on top people can't make anything original because they don't have the usually trope to fall upon and now the 343 Halo stuff is of much lower caliber than its predecessors. That pisses me off more than the humanity always wins trope. I like that struggle trope, but when we do win nobody knows what to do.

>>52412717
>>52411569
>>52412260
It's not even OC, it's a copy pasta from another HFY thread ages ago. Also
>breathes a fucking gas that is one of the most flammable substances in existence
>expels something that can destroy planets, poison countless organisms, and is hard as fuck to get rid off
Nigger are you ignoring the other animals on Earth or are you that retarded? You might as well say that fish are better than use since they constantly drown in liquids to breath

>>52416450
>You might as well say that fish are better than use since they constantly drown in liquids to breath
FFY when?

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>>52410049
>Short-lived
That's the reason.

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>>52411945
The only two human factions are nomadic traders who jew it up and underground scientific vikings who are trying to go to space.

>>52416675
The burning mages are also humans.

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>>52410049
>Why are humans so great, /tg/?
The same reason Kirito is literally the Jesus of his universe: the author wills it.

>>52416959
You may be a dumb frogposter, but this comparison is great. I will have a use for it.

>>52416598
>comic sans

>Intelligent
>Fast Breeders
>Agile
>Fast
>Nearly every kind of specialist
>Cruel
>Warmongering
>Ambitious

but most importantly

>can interbreed with every other fantasy races
I mean, you say half-elf, because you dont need to specify who was the other one: it's human, guaranteed

>>52415435
>one hairless monkey
I seriously want to punch everyone who is saying this.
REALLY? YOU COMPARE YOURSELF, ONE OF THE MOST ADVANCED CREATIONS WITH A CHIMP?!
I know, Its just there, nothing special intended, but still, it's fucking annoying...

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>>52410091
Rodents are lagomorphs
Reeeeeeeeeeeeee

>>52417240
A new font does not triumph etc.

>>52417560
I meant that rabbits are lagomorphs, not rodents
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Pre-agricultural humans get fucking everywhere

Elves are racist against humans because there are elves that were alive at the time that humans were still wandering around shoving mammoths off cliffs

Marauding orcs are unable to surpass humanity's superhumanoid muscular endurance, who are able to flee with impunity

Dwarves have no beef with humans excepting a few of the dumber hominids who tried living in caves (and are subsequently extincted by little people)


By the time anyone cares about these tool using humanoid wolf-packs, they're already fucking everywhere and too numerous to exterminate

>>52410302
With all that in consideration, humanity would get absolutely destroyed if it came to conflict with a race of intelligent beings that had a high degree of internal diversity by specialization, proper leadership and high enough birthrate. Imagine an arthropod race that, instead of the typical worker, soldier, queen etc. specializations, had something like menial worker, artesan, mage, cleric, shocktrooper, officer etc. type of specializations. In addition, each member of the race would have the ability to reproduce and maturity would be reached extremely fast compared to other races.
Combine that with an efficient leadership (or even a hivemind of some sort) and you've got yourself a neat idea for a setting where humans are not the dominant race for once.

>>52417500

But you aren't any more a creation than a chimp, and the chimp is your closest surviving relative.

>>52417891
>Marauding orcs are unable to surpass humanity's superhumanoid muscular endurance
Why not?

>>52417951
Somewhat balanced universe is TES, where humans and elves are decent concurrents, then again that are same race (ehlnofey) so it doesnt count.
>>52417972
If you want to be a monkey its your choice.
I imagine humanity a image of God, highest of all creations in universe, not a """hairless monkey""" like many want yo degrade our glorious kind and taint our birthright

>author makes a fictional sci-fi/fantasy setting
>feels the need to invent a warrior race
>not realizing that humanity is already the warrior race

Every time. We've been at war somewhere on the planet for probably the entirety of recorded human history.

>>52418149
>We've been at war somewhere on the planet for probably the entirety of recorded human history.
I'm fairly sure a lot of animals have that distinction.

>>52417951
>hey this race has the best traits of all races that exist, haha that'll show those humans!
This is you right now.

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>>52417500
>>52418127
Is it you my Lord?

Setting im working on has all the races as fairly balanced powerwise, but with pretty distinct strengths and weaknesses. Elves are immortal and have powerful magic, but Humans can commune with the divine and are more durable

>>52418235
Sharks are at war with everthing far longer than humanity, but for some reason nobody makes a shark warrior-race.

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>>52418235
>>52418387
>natural instincts=war

>>52418387
>but for some reason nobody makes a shark warrior-race.
Because they hate fun.

>>52418250
>Humans have the best traits of all races that exist, haha that'll show those non-humans!
Not that anon, but this is most of hfy faggotry, and you if you ascribe to their masturbatory fantasies.

>>52410058
>>52410174
These anons have the right of it.

>>52418387
Why would sharks fight against pre industrial humans?
How could you make a fun adventure in the boring epipelagic zone?
Why would you risk attracting Aquaman roleplayers?
How would you explain metalworking under the sea?

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>>52418530
>Why would you risk attracting Aquaman roleplayers?
Anon, this sounds too dumb to not make it happen.

>>52418127

Why can't you be a hairless ape that is a dominant species on one planet, and sufficiently intelligent to believe that it is the dominant species in the universe and to conflate apes with monkeys?

>>52418250
That reaction reeks of insecurity. Most people seem to like stories of underdog protagonists winning against impossible odds by using their wits more than ones where inherently advantaged heroes win by simply being more powerful than their opponent.

>>52418598
Because these two are FUCKING DIFFERENT. We are destined to be copy versions of God, not some ordinary apex predator.there is nothing more humiliating for a human to be compated with an animal. We are more than this, we always were more than this.
>>52418276
Looks like, another great crusade is up ahead, my most loyal follower.

>it's just because writer's fiat
I can accept this for a lot of settings, but is it really the case for all of them? Humans in Artemis Fowl came out on top, but the series doesn't treat them as being better than the other races. In fact it, along with a bunch of other series, portray humanity as a scourge. Damaging the environment, being ignorant and selfish, subjugating other races, and in general being the source of a lot of misery.

Are they still the pet race in settings like that?

>>52418725
>We are destined to be copy versions of God
You know what the saddest part is, I don't think that this is an actual religious person posting this, but just some DEUS VULT larper, getting off on feeling all powerful by the mere fact of being born human.

>>52418729
>Are they still the pet race in settings like that?
Even if they aren't, it's still kinda off for me personally, since it still portrays humanity as something different than every other sapient race.

>>52418795
I am religious. Orthodox christian to be exact.
But that's not the point. Degrading your race by referring them as monkeys and apes is just insulting and degenerate action in general. I doubt that nonreligious or atheist would be happier with this reference. It's not about religion or faith, it's about our birthright, that you are throwing away in a garbage can.

>>52418729
WH40k would be a setting for this. Not only humanity, but everything in this universe is supposed to be shit, everyone an asshole, everyone dumb, a fanatic, an extremist or just a force of destruction, where this galaxy is inevitably heading towards. But HFY-faggots will still find ways to portray humans as the good guys.

>>52410049
Bonus feat, mostly.

>>52418876
Atheist here. I don't care about the comparison, because I don't have an inflated ego.

Also because god isn't real and there is no "birthright" or any other kind of greater purpose to our existence. And you can't definitively prove it or the existence of god.

>>52418876
It can also teach you some basic humility and respect for the creation, when you remember that we are only so many thousands of years apart from these monkeys, compared to the age of this world and especially the age of the universe. And even moreso when you think about how much of our primary instincts and behavior are still remants of our days as mere animals.

But nah, we are the enlightened species and there is nothing to worry about letting our monkey paws grabbing some nukes.

So I was doing some 'what makes humans human' stuff in my setting.

The answers became the following:

>Humans are corruptible
The ability to both corrupt and fall to corruption was something extremely human. Other species were far less able to change in such a drastic manner that "corruption" is the right word for it. Humans had a relatively unique overarching lust for power/wealth/status that caused them to be far more corruptible. Other species can be corrupted but it takes far more work on the part of the corruptor. Dwarves for instance have natural spirits that work to turn good dwarves into paranoid schizophrenics, but this normally takes years and trauma. Humans are also the best at subverting corruption, this stemming from the same reason they fall to corruption. Their lust for power/wealth/status is often strong enough to drive them to attempt to consume their corruptor in addition to becoming corrupted.

>Humans fucking love vindictive vengeance
The idea of killing off someone's entire family because one of them killed your brother is something other species have a hard fucking time understanding. Vindictive vengeance is a psychosis humans are fairly unique in having.

>Humans love warfare
Other species are good at warfare, but humans breed individuals who absolutely fucking love war. It's the reason the vast majority of mercenaries are human.

(1/2)

>>52419017
>Humans run their own self destructive training program
Humans are massively cruel to one another, however most humans aren't just willing to kill one another. This means you get people who get the shit lot in life all their lives and are forced to adapt. Most other races either treat their kind well (like elves) or just murder each other for any old reason (like goblins). Humans hit a special middle ground of forcing people to do well or get shit on all their lives.

>Humans produce people of greatness
Humanity as a whole only really has one defense mechanism. It's occasionally producing extremely exceptional individuals. Among other species individual ability is far more of a flat plain and less variation between folks. This can be both a good and a bad thing, but humanity occasionally produces people who are simply better than everyone else. One in a million talents.

>>52418983
>there is no higher purpose to our existance
Then why do you still live?

>>52419111
Why would a person need a higher purpose to live? You make your own purposes and enjoy the ride as you can.

>>52416404
This, this, this a thousand times over.
If you want the pinnacle of Halo's HFY, go give Ghosts of Onyx a read nitty gritty grimdark about Spartan IIIs going through just as much shit as the IIs, only they're expendable - then some nice last stand bravadoporn at hte end or Contact Harvest "no anon, we ARE the annoyingly tenacious sandnigger insurgents"

>>52419017
>>52419078
These suck. Mostly because you seem determined to do what tons of writers do and portray humanity as largely irredeemable assholes who are only good for spitting out protagonists who are better than everybody else.

>>52412929
Anon no. A few blew up.

>>52419173
And so what? Does this "enjoyment" is wort of huge pain that is called existence? What is the point of this, if you will deform into nonexistence at the end? mortal existance is pain for every sentient race. Even if youll achieve biological or technical immortality, heat death will happen and matterial universe will become formless oblivion, devouring you too. It doesnt matter how you enjoy your ride, sooner or later, youlll be no more.

>>52419111
Because I like living, most of the time. Sometimes I envy people who can do faith but I'm content for the most part.

>>52419260
The pain is part of the experience, in my opinion.

>>52418504
Not really. Even the worst hfy faggotry is about humans being completely disadvantaged in most aspects excepts one or two that are actually really mundane but turn out to be super useful in the story. This guy just cobbled together a perfect mary sue race without any regard for how and why a species acquires the traits it has.
>>52418621
Not really, i just can't stand to see poorly thought out shit like this.

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>>52419315
You can't stand to see poorly thought out shit, but you have no problem with writing poorly thought out replies?

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>>52418725
IMPERATOR VULT

>>52419315
>Even the worst hfy faggotry is about humans being completely disadvantaged in most aspects
No, the worst hfy faggotry is about humans having barealy any disadvantages and just all the other races who am I kidding, it's almost always elves being completely retarded for no good reason than making the hfy faggot feeling better about himself.

>>52419260
>Does this "enjoyment" is wort of huge pain that is called existence?...mortal existance is pain for every sentient race.
I dunno man, sometimes things suck and I know there are a lot of people for whom things suck a lot more than they do for me, but sometimes things are good. And you can always try to make the pain count by striving to make things better for yourself or others.
>What is the point of this, if you will deform into nonexistence at the end?
There isn't a point. We're here whether we like it or not, so we might as well make the best of it for as long as we're here.

NOt to sound like I'm ripping off Undertale or anything but I like the idea of humans having some kind of intrinsic quality that makes them different from the others races, which basically comes out to be Determination.

I was planning on writing a story before Undertale came out but I've put it on the backburner since it did the same thing and I want to refigure the story.

The basic idea was that humans, unlike any other race, have that quintessence of Will, the Determination to succeed no matter what.

So that plucky spirit, the thing that makes a human say "Oh, the neighboring kingdom has been overthrown by a thousand year old lich with a massive army of the undead. I'm gonna go hit him with my sword" is basically a divine spark that makes humans successful over the other races. While the other races suffer setbacks and grow insular and depressed, retreating into their ancestral territories and brooding, setbacks only make humans more determined.

Humans spit in the face of adversity and tell Death to suck their dicks, which is why they've taken over despite being weaker than the Elder Races.

>>52419476
Why wont make it shorter if there is no point at the end?

>>52419383
Do you actually have anything to say, or are you just replying to feel better about yourself?

>>52419502
The end isn't what really matters.

>>52419502
Because then you don't get the chance to give it points in the middle.

>>52419528
Nothing matters at all if you cease to exist at the end.

>>52419498
>"Oh, the neighboring kingdom has been overthrown by a thousand year old lich with a massive army of the undead. I'm gonna go hit him with my sword"
This is something that always bothered me, and i'm glad you brought it up.
The Lich was once a human too. He was extremely ambitious, driven and daring, and achieved virtual goodhood through nothing but hard work, willpower and sacrifice on a path that claims many exceptional people. In short, this was once a superbly exceptional individual who has since vastly grown in power and experience. He earned his way up, and knows what it's like to be the underdog, to be weak and fragile and scared and mortal.
So how the fuck does he lose to a bunch of assholes who are not even half a century old? Sure, the power and millennia may have dulled those former instincts of his, but this is still someone who was FAR more gifted, driven and all that stuff then any band of heroes facing him. It's the same with Dracula, most stories tend to forget that he was a magnificent warrior and a virtual hero, and well used to being the underdog, and then he got the power and immortality. Stuff like that always pisses me off. A hero king who had his own hero's (or villain's) journey and became a (demi)god should not lose to a bunch of scrubs.

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>>52410058
>>52411464
>>52412778
>>52418504
Replies like this makes me always wonder who fiddled those anons when they were still in kindergarden.

I mean you seem to have an irrational hate for humanity and to be triggered at the mere thought that humanity might get shit done. See, the only reason humans are portrayed as without big flaws nor advantages in a setting is because we are all human, something that might appear to be absolutely mundane in both sci-fi or fantasy settings.

It is also isn't correct most of the time.

Look who we share this planet with.
Look at why were are still around when other species of humans met evolutionary dead-ends.
If you look at it OBJECTIVELY, without your hateboner or HURR DURR WE ARE GRETES-Glasses the reason why you have the luxury of being at home at and arguing of hundreds of miles with strangers around the world is because of our adaptability and how compared to other animals we have ridiculous endurance for example.

>>52419615
Why do you think that?

>>52419615
Not true. Just because I don't believe that there is an inherent meaning in existence doesn't mean that nothing matters to me personally.

>>52419518
Many things can seem stupid when taken out of context, or when there is no context. The idea that you dismissed as stupid could easily work if given one. Also, you can't honestly claim that your reply here >>52418250 was anything other than poorly thought out, so using
>i just can't stand to see poorly thought out shit
as an argument is hypocritical of you, so it was actually you who replied for your own sake instead of saying anything meaningful.

>>52419651
Pretty sure they're talking in the context of there being other sapient races that are similar to humans.

>>52411945
>Show me a setting where humans are presented as non-standard
Child of Light

>>52419651
You're right, humans as a species are pretty impressive.

Now imagine a bunch of other races ten times more impressive that humans have dominated somehow.

That's the discussion.

>>52419651
>and how compared to other animals
And this is where the logic of the average HFY-faggot falls flat.

>>52419631

It's a narrative conceit. Same reason the lich builds a dungeon full of cute traps and riddles to live in, when with his power he could've just built an adamantine cube at the bottom of the ocean and just teleported in and out of it.

But actually that was the basic point of the story. The story was set in a Moorcock-style multiverse with a set of constants in each world: Every world has humans, every world has a prophesied Chosen One, every world has the story's BBEG, and every world is eventually devoured by Terrors from outside the multiverse.

The BBEG, who is basically the primal archetype of Humanity, has been hopping from world to world trying to convince the Chosen One to join forces with him and stop the Terrors, but the Chosen One always kills him.

And he just goes to the next world and does it again, because to be human is to keep trying no matter what.

And his goal is to gather this concentrated Will from humanity (which requires killing most of the world's population, which is why the Chosen One fights him) and then join with the Chosen One to form a divine Ubermensch that can destroy the Terrors once and for all. In order to do that he has to somehow persuade the Chosen One to work with him, against the Chosen One's own human tenacity and defiance.

>>52419782
>Now imagine a bunch of other races ten times more impressive
Thats the thing you do not seem to understand. We are one of these impressive races. The human is a high-specialized pursuit predator.

Thats the discussion.

>>52419785
>And this is where the logic of the average HFY-faggot falls flat.
>LOGIC
>SCIENCE FANTASY
>Fantasy in general
>Logic

What the hell are you even going on about?
These always follow some internal logic of the setting and by that internal logic humans can keep up. What kind of edgy tartlet are you that you do not understand that?

>>52419709
...yes, and?

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>>52417951
How would a species like that exist? How would evolution create specialized castes that only function inside of civilization? And if the bugs created the castes themselves with magic, then why couldn't humans do the same?

And part of what makes humanity so resilient is our lack of specialty in biology. If someone kills all the mage bugs who passes down the mage genes? Well nobody, they're all dead, no more magic. If the officer bugs all get killed in warfare, or by disease, then all of the leaders are gone and the bugs will be permanently fucked.

But with humans if you kill all of the generals and politicans, new leaders will find their way to the top.

>>52419845
You're the one who doesn't understand.

What we're discussing is the triumph of humans over much more powerful races, in the context of a fantasy setting. It doesn't matter how much you try to wank humanity when the discussion explicitly involves races that are superior to them.

>>52419687
Ok, if you need me to actually explain, you basically took the traits of a quantity based swarm race (fast and massive reproduction, great innate organization, hive mind) and a quality based sapient race (culture, science, high intellect, individuality) and mixed them up, and then said ''boy, humans sure would be fucked''. No shit Sherlock, you'd be hard pressed to come up with a more bullshit race without giving them cosmic powers or some shit.

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>>52419782
This is a pretty good one.

>>52419651
We are incredible, no doubt but we won a one-person race to the top anon. There are *no other* creatures like us on this planet. We wax poetic about the limitless potential of our creativity and imagination yet ultimately prove to be fucking devoid of these when we must think of sharing this world with other self-aware beings. We simply can't fathom not having them suck our dicks all the while lamenting about being the underdogs and obviously, they'd all have to be pathetically retarded because how could it be otherwise, we clearly need to be coddled. The reason I dislike HFY is that I find a lot of it disrespectful to humanity and dishonest in general.

>>52419807
I like that idea, anon.

>>52419845

Humans are omnivorous opportunists and only very specialized populations, like Eskimos who have specific mutations to help with it that other humans lack, thrived on a meat-based diet. Exactly like chimps, except more suited for ground than trees.

Also by definition humans can't be more impressive than humans so it makes no sense to say that regarding the other anon's point.

>>52419923
You seemed to only be talking about humans as we are now, without other sapient peers, when the discussion is usually involving other sapients as well.

>>52419938
This is what i'm talking about.

>>52419893
>>Fantasy in general
>>Logic
Yes, any good fantasy setting has internal logic. And I never said that because of this logic humans aren't able to keep up. What I said is that it's retarded to to assume that we can keep up because we killed some animals here on earth, where these other fantasy races don't exist.
To make it more clear: No, we wouldn't automatically be superior to elves in fantasy lands because we managed to kill mammoths back in the day. There is no logic in this, because we can't know how these elves would have managed the exact time period in which killing mammoths was a thing.

>>52419651
>pic related
Regardless of >muh tumblr, this is precisely why HFY became cancer.

How the fuck do we expect aliens with interstellar capability to find
>healing
>basic senses
>our (actually really fuckin slow) reproductive rates
>teeth
>fucking teeth
>BASIC DIGESTIVE ENZYMES
terrifying or otherwise threatening? This is the entire fucking point, this is why the current direction HFY has been taking is nothing but disgusting Sue wankery. The only thing even remotely impressive on there is endurance hunting, and that only comes about when you're too fucking weak to do the job properly and ambush them or some shit.

See what >>52414945 said in particular. HFY isn't meant to be
>HAHA THE AYLMAOS ARE SCARED OF THE FACT WE CAN HEAR THINGS
because that's not "HUMANITY, fuck yeah", or anything apart from fanfic-tier wank, albeit with reasonable superpowers replaced by mundane facts about human physiology that are supposed to have aliens writing creepypasta about us. HFY is meant to be about our humanity, our persistence, our bloody-mindedness, our capacity for innovation when we need to and cruelty when we want to, our compassion, our persistence, and all the other features and quirks of the human psyche that the aliens thought that they could beat down with plasma weaponry.

tl;dr: HFY is supposed to be about humans being heroes - just of the Victoria Cross sort, not the capeshit sort

>>52419970
That is one of the most obnoxious walls of text I have ever read.

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>>52419974
Everyone, read this post. It contains truth and has some poetic vibe to it.

>>52420083
It's actually fairly well written and creative.

>>52419970
This is why I can never take this shit seriously.

>>52420131
If you think so. But being well written and creative doesn't preclude obnoxiousness.

>>52420083
>>52420133
...but there's nothing wrong with >>52419651 ?

>>52420133
The problem with autists like you is, you always have to imagine other species as being absolutely superior to humans in every single way with no heed for evolution or biology or whatever.

>>52410059
So we are Skaven.

>>52420179
It doesn't have to be one or the other, you know. Humans can simply be a normal, average race like all the other hypothetical ones.

>>52420179
The problem with autists like you is, you always have to imagine humans as being absolutely superior to other species in every single way with no heed for evolution or biology or whatever.

>>52420168
I respect your opinion. I just really liked the core concept
>everyone is stronger and/or faster, but needs to rest longer to compensate

>>52420229
>literally no argument: the post
The very text i posted had humans as inferior in literally every physical stat, only compensating with much shorter rest periods.

>>52420169
I didn't really take that one very seriously, as it's just a bunch of jackasses joking around and dumbasses being dumbasses.

The blatant humanity wanking in the form of several paragraphs worth of an alien warlord admitting how badly he underestimated the sheer badassery humanity is worse.

>>52419938
Most of those points can be adressed by making the reliance on genetics somewhat controlled by the race members so lost specializations could be regained through gene manipulation of some sort. This,
> And if the bugs created the castes themselves with magic, then why couldn't humans do the same?
however, is a very good point and needs to be dealt individually.
By making the process of evolving highly specialized castes resource intesive, it would make it difficult for humans to produce the required facilities for it if the bugs did it first, became the dominant species and started policing the other races to prevent the birth of a similiar race. Humans would need to find a way to gather all the necessary resources to gain access to the magical evolution, and to protect the community from the bugs that would shut it down.
>>52419945
The idea wasn't to create a "lol fuck humans"-race. It was to create an adversary that humans wouldn't be able to best through sheer natural ability or direct confrontation, but through cunning and ingeniuty.

>>52420179
Well that is what the thread is about...

>>52420220
But that simply won't do! Every other species *must* stand in complete awe of us and our humanness. They must be proven to be utterly pathetic when compared to every single one of us and they must absolutely know that they only continue to exist because we allow them to. No other scenario is acceptable.

>>52420230
It could make a difference in wars, but in fights?

>>52420304
There's being humble, and then there's being a cuck. Sure, cry /pol/ or whatever, but when you sperg out every time someone praises a group you're a part of, what else are you?
Would it make you feel better if i read you a story about how aliens enslaved humanity and a single alien can kill an army and they are so smart and we are so fortunate to be subjugated?

>>52420363
What's with the extremes, man?

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>>52420121
>>52419974
>>52420229
>hurr durr everyone else is so superior how can we even compete
pic related is your home country

>>52420353
Well he does mention humans got rekt the second it came to melee/single fights. It's just that the combination of constant kiting/superior marksmanship/never ending assault rekt them in a war of attrition.

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>>52420407

>>52420407
Does your ego hurt? Maybe you should be proud of other things than being born a homo sapiens sapiens. A lot of people are born this way these days.

>>52420392
Well, the response wasn't criticism or disagreement, it was straight up outrage because how dare you talk well of your species.

The problem with HFY is that they assume that other aliens are just weak as shit.

Of course other interstellar species would be adaptable and determinated. After all, they dominated their respective planets or even systems.

Take truly significant traits of humanity compared to other animals (specially the intelligent ones). Ok, we can kill by pursuing. That means we have a lot of stamina (not the same as determination) good for long battles. Also, primates seem to be the only intelligent animals (compared to some birds, dolphins...) wich have a "sense of humour". That would make an interesting trait. Maybe other aliens take humans as comedians, bufoons and jokers on their courts as an exotic addition to their lifes.

We seem to be on our reproductive cycles all the time to compensate our slow birhrates. That would make other aliens think..weird of us. Maybe adding to the joke.

Also, we seem to have an special symbiotic relationship with our old predators and called them dogs. Maybe this kind of domestication is rare among space civilizations.

We aren't the warrior race, the underdogs who become heroes. We are court animals perfect for space opera fuckery

>>52420363
I miss the days when "cuck" was filtered into "kek".

It's obnoxious because of how heavy-handed it is. It's 10 paragraphs of an alien warlord doing a total 180 and sucking humanity off with his (presumably) nasty alien warlord mouth. It absolutely drips with obnoxious HFY bullshit.

>>52420498
It actually was criticism.

The criticism being that it's dumb and obnoxious. Small wonder you like it so much.

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>>52420407
when ur sad another anon is rite but u only have nashunal pryde to console u

>>52420498
Just because somebody thinks human-wanking is obnoxious doesn't make them hate humans.

>>52420526
This is how HFY started. This is when they actually made some good shit here and there. When it was about exploring really significant human characteristics, that aliens probably wouldn't have. Instead of this curb stomp shittery.

>>52420424
He then goes on to say that the humans basically have a paper to their rock, since they don't stop moving, don't need to rest as much, and are masters of ranged combat.

>>52420554
>a predator used to bullying prey species gets a reality check and is humbled by the experience
I mean, i get where you're coming from, but the story did a pretty good job of explaining it. It's literally
>Y-You're not s-supposed to fight back!
>I-I keep killing you!
>W-Why are you not running!
The problem is, you only see humanity wank because that's all you want to see. I see that, sure, but i also see a murderous bully who got cut down to size.

>>52420616
s e e >>52420066

>>52420594
>my opinions are the world of God
Loving Every Laugh

>>52420656
Well, yea. Individually we're the weakest, so naturally we compensate in groups. Why would a predator species be good in a prolonged battle?

>>52420817
Criticisms are opinions.

Why is there not a setting where, apart from cosmetic differences, humans and all aliens are the same? It would make the most sense. Races that were weak physically evolved intelligence and unity, created civilization etc.

>>52420407

The funny thing is, /pol/ folks probably consider themselves superior to the Middle Eastern Muslim migrants in various ways despite them being the same species. Yet somehow the idea of having a fictional species superior to to humans in various ways rustles their jimmies, despite the differences between species being far more significant than within them.
:thinking:

>>52420846
Humans are a predator species.

>>52420908
Because then you would have trekshit. And a really, really, uselessly boring setting.

>>52420526
>>52420616

Continuing with the same train of tought:

Humour: Good bufoons could make a way in other alien courts and entertainment cultures. There you have prestige and social influence. Also the ability to have humour may give some subtle advantages in negotiation (things like sarcasm and joke to "break the ice" may make the aliens uncertain of the true motives of the negotiator)

Dogs and Stamina: Good trackers and hunters in the recreational sense. No serious spacefaring civilization should have problems actually killing any beast or actually finding anything. But the stamina and symbiosis with canids could make for curious hunting rituals in the eyes of other species. Maybe that would make us seem like better predators.

Continous breeders: Even without wanting to venture into magical realms is obvious that a trait like that could make humans target of some alien sexual tourism or slavery. The position of concubine could also be of help in the position of "diplomatic" species. It also could make the population of humanity grow in a more stable way than other species that are the equivalent of seasonal breeders or need more specific conditions to breed. If humans went to war they could profit from exploiting the reproductive needs of other species, threatening their long term survival, and playing the patient colonizer card.

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>>52420923
but the joke was on sweden that is for a moment still mostly white

>>52420931
We made ourselves into predators, but a species that evolved from, say, lions, would have all the advantages and drawbacks of that. And that includes getting absolutely wrecked in a war with humans.

>>52420953
>>>/d/
and take you filthy fetishes with you

>>52410049
Human writer propaganda.

>>52418083
Probably the most exceptional part of the human body that people might not realize is how absurdly superior human endurance is to any other animal

Humans on foot can outrun horses over 100 miles, I'd say it would be a good physical aspect to base humanity around if you don't just keep them as the jacks-of-all-trades

>>52420985
Come on, twi´leks in star wars are basically that already and they aren't /d/ territory i guess.

Only way for humans to be immortal is to immortalize yourself with action and footprint. Short lifespan motivates. Also adaptibility!!! and pragmatism. No problemo if 200 000 die to save another 100 000.

>>52421020
And why wouldn't orcs be like that as well? They have the same basic body structure as humans, after all.

>>52421030
How the fuck is that pragmatism?

>>52421007

>wish fulfillment*

Come on, "propaganda" using fantasy foes?

But replace humans with English and aliens with Germans in >>52419970
and you will get propaganda.

>>52421049
Bigger and heavier, more muscle.

>>52421049
They could be, but I can't think of any setting where Orcs are notorious at running marathons, and being a 300 pound muscleman actually makes distance running harder

>>52421030
>Short lifespan motivates
It can also demotivate.

>>52421070
>>52421084
There could be cultures of orcs that aren't musclemen, and can run far as well.

>>52421049

Elves too, in fact most stock fantasy races.

>>52420801
I see what's written. That being literally ten paragraphs of blatant and obnoxious humanity wanking. It's not because of any bias against HFY shit, because before this thread I didn't even know it existed.

You see a murderous bully being cut down to size because it's what YOU want to see. It's actually a good way to sum it up. It reads like a bullied science fiction nerd writing up a convoluted revenge fantasy on his specific Chad, making him pay in fiction for underestimating the scrawny nerds.

>>52421109
Sure, there could be, it IS fantasy after all

>>52421084

Ever read Lord of the Rings?

>>52421132
Not really. I used bully as a catch all term. When i said bully, i didn't mean it in a schoolyard sense, i meant a barbarian or pirate who is used to killing and pillaging the weak and the defenseless and then gets his shit pushed in by a seasoned warrior. Except here he got rekt by seeing all his buddies killed by hordes of women and children that threw themselves at their assailants and chewed then to death.

>>52421272
It still reads like that though.

>>52419222
I'll add it to the backlog, I hear good things about it from friends also. Can't possibly be as slow as the forerunner trilogy either.

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>>52420526
>compensate our slow birhrates
I feel like Aliens would also have slow birthrates and time to maturation. It takes a long time to string together enough neurons to create an intelligent organism.

If a species survival technique is to fuck a lot and spit out as many offspring as possible then its unlikely they'd become civilized. Why would males develop agriculture and cities if they're constantly fighting with one another over bitches to fuck? There's a reason that in advanced cultures polygamy is either banned, or limited to only the extremely wealthy.

By Islamic law for example a man can have only four wives, and they all have to be treated equally in terms of finance. So you gotta to be stacked to afford 4 wives.

The Indians used to have polygamy but it was linked with the caste system, where the Brahmin could have four, the Kshatriya three, etc.

Let's think of this: every "kind" of creature has a "specialization".

Let's assume only predators or omnivores have the capacity to develop sapience. Because herbivores are stupid as fuck and "hiveminds" or "colonies" are bullshit, let's face it.

So, humans are endurance hunters. What would a sapient ambush predator race look like? Pursuit predator race? A race that used some completely different method like mimicry combined with poisons? Maybe there are already good examples?

>>52413239
>Most of times such works even more of a retarded read
exhibit 1: eragon

>>52419111
Because a lower purpose is satisfactory

>>52419260
If nothing matters, why will it matter when I die?

>>52422364
Yeah but in Islam sex slaves are perfectly halal.

>>52419684
You miss anon's point. What matters to you personally requires you to exist to matter, and you won't exist forever

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You will never crush the human spirit! You will NEVER win! EVER!!

>>52419845
Compared to animals. Fantasy races are humans+

>>52419974
We won vs other hominids.

>>52423573
Why would I be concerned about this? I mean, it'd be nice if some things that mattered to me continued to matter, to someone else, after I was gone, but I won't be in a position to care one way or another at that point anyway.

>>52410049
When you aren't good at anything and you don't live long, you're forced to get creative.

>>52421084
I can't think of any setting where stating a race's marathon running ability is relevent

>>52410049
Honestly the way I've always seen it is just that humans have two qualities that most other races don't have, or at least don't have as much of. The first is that humans breed fairly quickly and constantly seek to expand their territory to accommodate their population, in addition to just being colonial/explorer as fuck. So basically there's going to be shitloads of humans in basically every place, even fucki stupid places where we shouldn't be like next to volcanoes or on glaciers or in deserts and other shit, places that most other races don't want. Or at least all the races don't unanimously want.

The other is that humans are likely to do whatever it takes. I'm not just saying "oh humans always find a way because we're super geniuses" though. "Whatever it takes" might be giving up and fucking off. If humans can't beat elves in the forest then they might stubbornly keep fighting and die, leaving a shitload of other human settlements. they might burn the forest down to end the threat, ensuring that nobody really wins but the elves for sure lose. they might just use diplomacy and establish trade. Or they might just give up entirely and stay out of the forest, even uprooting and moving away if need be.

Basically no matter what there's always going to be humans because we spread everywhere constantly and other races don't. Nobody could beat humanity as a whole and even if they could, why would they? We got nothing of value to most other races.

>>52423573
Why do I feel like this is going to segue into a debate about solipsism?

One thing I often do, which is pretty common I think, is I make the Elder Races extremely conservative and slow-moving.

Elves live forever. Elrond is 6000 years old; to put that in real world terms imagine if Hammurabi were still alive and running a country today.

I always assume the extreme longevity of elder races makes them hyperconservative and resistant to change because their government tenures last for thousands of years.

>>52424534
How are they not crushed by the faster progressing nations?

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>>52423252
>Because herbivores are stupid as fuck
Thats what they all say before one somehow manages to find where they live and sneak into their home to murder them out of spite

>>52424043
>Humans breed fairly quickly.

No we fucking don't.

>>52412966
wtf is the source

>>52424709
Pretty sure anon means 'compared to other fantasy races'. Though I admit, that's not a field where I've done much research

>>52424604

They tend to live in places humans don't readily colonize. You don't see a lot of human cities in deep woods or mountains.

>>52424709
I guess by "quickly" I more meant "excessively". Especially in ye fuckin olde times. I've never seen any fantasy race other than the monster type goblins and orcs and maybe, maybe halflings described as having like 10 kids per generation per family or similar, and for the most part even humans far outclass things like goblins and even orcs. One kid a year every year is pretty substantial, and that's how we used to do it, especially when it comes to settling new land.

I mean it's always going to come down to the source material. You could easily say "well in MY setting elves have litters of 13 kids every 3 months" and then I'd be wrong, but I'm fairly confident in saying that most fantasy races on the playing field with humans are described as breeding fairly conservatively. Usually because they're very long lived or even immortal. When it comes to occupying territory, pretty much NOTHING beats simply having a large population. In battle maybe not, superior firepower can win battles, but not everything is battle, often times it's just a matter of how many people are living in a place. And I just can't imagine any race other than humans settling massive amounts of land.

Of course it's all down to who's writing what. In fact, maybe humans lose 9/10 battles with literally every race, but since WE are humans reading human stories about humans by humans, it stands to reason that most of them are about our victories no?

>>52417951
Well, look at The Covenant from Halo.

Because people have an easier time sympathizing with characters that look like them.

>>52424534
>>52424604
Humanity as a fantasy race should be dynamic and chaotic where other, longer lived races are static and flat. Not shitting on other races, but that makes the most sense to me. Humans have a pretty high turnover rate compared to them, and new leaders are coming and going, wars are being fought, cities built and destroyed, cultures created and wiped out, etc, all in the time some elf sage is meditating in a forest grove. Humans also vary wildly from place to place, and have their hands too full dealing with each other to have time to bother fucking with some dwarves down in their mines and elves all the way in their forests.

>>52417099
Dont get the backlash to frogposting on tg 2b honest

>>52410049

Low mean, but very high standard deviation and n= a lot.

Compared to a race with higher average int but lower variability, humans will have more and smarter super-geniuses at the top end.

The same goes for other stats, especially magical potential, as well as measurable life outcomes. Words like diversity get bandied about irresponsibly, but there is great power in variability.

>>52410049
Pigheadedness.

>>52423562
But the Bastards from your slaves can inherit shit so what good are they? They get your genes, but that's it, no legacy.

>>52425830
More slaves tho.

>>52410049

The authors are human.

Human's greatest ability is irrational screaming hatred and massive amounts of autism. You'll get a guy who will literally spend years, FUCKING YEARS, doing nothing but polish stones to get 'the perfect shine'. The fragility of the human mental state and its ability to simplemindedly devote itself to a task for years on end is what makes humans special.

We're the real autism boys.

>>52420168
You sound like a Sholani. S'matter, Sholie, get your ass whipped too any times by one of Terra's Best?

Do you guys even have asses?

>>52420931

Not really -- lie Anon said, we made ourselves predators. Prior to developing effective tools, weapons, and maybe fire, we were walking meat snacks for anything larger than a Springer Spaniel.

>>52423643
Yup, tho prolly due to cross-species fucking. Still, we're here, Neanderthals and Denisovans aren't.

"You want to know the truth about human hegemony?

We were here first.

That's it.

People bullshit about it. Our culture, our humor, our religion, our manifest destiny, our biological superiority, our technology, our moral fiber, our innovation and uncrushable spirit!

It's all bullshit. We just showed up before anyone else reached the stars and colonized and enslaved them before they had a chance to do shit about it.

The Alien is not a coward, the Kurath sent their sole warship against a corporate invasion fleet, sacrificed continents and seas in a running battle through their own biosphere. Species beyond number have tried, and failed, to nuke themselves to glass in a desperate attempt to die free. The alien has culture, the Pamna were amazing artists, the Abuum poets beyond compare before we subjugated them. The alien has religion and humor and biological advantages and new technologies and a million other advantages. They miss only one, one single thing, that makes the others all irrelevant:

They got here second. Our infrastructure, size, the competition between nations that demands new colonies and servitor races, it means that whatever they have is irrelevant save for the space they fill in our new society.

And if someone else, the Kimari, the Abuum, the Roschek, had been here first we'd be wondering what social humor and endurance capabilities would be useful for under our new alien overlords. It'd be their hegemony, their lies and excuses, their burden and atrocities."

>>52426006
Every other race is always portrayed as being more autisticly obsessed with a craft than humans.

>>52411945
For some odd reason the best that comes to mind is this "Animal waifu" story that has a lot of odd trivia facts about the animals in question.

It mentions that humans are unusually skilled at long distance running. Most animals tire out and hunt in a certain area. Humans are the closest thing man has made to tireless golems.

So if we are the nonstandard we'd be the high con race.

>>52426363
Thank you. This I can stomach, at least.

>>52426411
>he believes advertising
Generally it's only dwarves and elves portrayed in that way and only to certain crafts they are racially competent at.

>tfw in my settings humans were a prank designed to fuck with other gods when they intervene with their 'garden species'
You just toss a few thousand humans near the great elven forest and soon there are half-elves everywhere. It's fucking hilarious.

>>52410684
Guilliman is a whiny bitch. The Imperium has never been more hope driven then a cult litterally driven to believe that, even as darkness crests and more and more apocalypse events rears its head, that, any moment now, their loving and merciless god will step off the throne and everything will be better.

The Imperium is beset by impossible odds every day and has persisted despite it only to get bitched at by the very gods that let it crumble in their fingers.

I don't get it. Does hate for HFY stem from it being done incorrectly, or just that they hate humans in general? I understand that a hamfisted setting where 'Da hoomans won cuz they are bettah' can get annoying but all the arguments I see against HFY are referencing that mindless drivel in the first place.

Its not fun to have humans completely fucking stomped on. If you really wanted it, you could have a setting in which humans are completely useless slaves and in complete shambles compared to an esteemed Elf or the like. But then what? From my experience humans are normally the POV, so the reverse of HFY is just as absurd. And if the humans aren't even the POV, then why the fuck are they still there? If they were so useless how did they last against Sue races? Just don't even bother to include them in the setting, maybe they died out because you hate em so much???

Is there any love for the middle ground? I don't even remember anymore after reading this thread. Sure sucks to be a human.

>oldest race
>bullshit agespawns
>nanomachines
>anger fuelled deicidical rampage
>genocide happy
>masters of ki
>fast learning
>unending waves
No. You are bullshit.

APOLOGIZE FOR WARS OF THE CROSS AND END OF THE FAIRY TALES

>>52426988
It mainly stems from the assertion that humans are, man for man, better than races which would very obviously be better than them at everything.

Like, good fucking luck expecting one dude to win against a thousand year old treefucker. Said elf has seen hundreds of single duels between elves and humans and you might have seen one. He's intrinsically faster, more agile, more magically adept, and smarter.

Humans can still, strategically speaking, win in such settings. Humans breed a lot faster than elves for instance, and while elves are probably more than capable of using social engineering to enslave whole human civilisations, eventually a butterfly will flap its wings somewhere, the humans will get angry for a stupid and unforeseen reason, and then they can use human wave tactics to kill a few dozen elves that will take centuries to replace.

The issue is that HFY always has to be because humans always had some special talent all along, or that the human spirit is indomitable. We are, in the real world, certain the latter isn't true, and in a Dindyverse where there are elves and orks and shit, a core conceit of the setting is that the former isn't true either. Because everything that distinguishes humans from animals is shared by a few other types of creatures.

>>52411945
GW2 for its flaws did establish humans as a race in tune with divinity and having strength from this favour. As a d20 race they'd have a CHA mod.

The big cat guys might be closer to the all rounders, dabbling with everything to do with war in their culture.

>>52410049
HFY is bullshit and never holds up in a setting with super races, but you'll rarely find fantasy races without some crippling issues. Average is a legitimately big strength if other races have huge weaknesses to exploit. If orcs are dumb, elves breed slow, and dwarves are reclusive, then yeah, it's no surprise humans dominate the world.

>>52426988
It stems from being overdone and complete dogshit. God HFY stories are fun and uplifting, but most of it is retarded wankery.
And then the HFYfags play the victimcs and get turbo butthurt when you point out their drivel is shit. If you don't like the fact that every other sentient race is completely useless and only wants the Human Cock, Human-God's Gift to the Universe, you are obviously a spineless niggerturbocuck who hates humans.

>>52418876
If you're Orthodox why do you sound like an American Protestant?
I bet you're a biblical literalist too

>>52419974
>no doubt but we won a one-person race to the top anon. There are *no other* creatures like us on this planet.

there were multiple competing species of autrolopithicines and hominids anon. humans killed them all, and fucked the rest

Humans are boring.

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>>52410091
>most biggest threat is a fluffy rodent that fucks constantly.
Reminded me of this

>>52425096
All races should be dynamic. Static flat races are just plain shit writing.

The exact dynamism rate, however, can be different. Elves' institutions tend to live longer and thus be more relatively static. Dwarves change at geological speed - the faces and fashion may change, but at the core they stay roughly the same (although i like Pratchett dwarves' changing dynamic). Orcs societies generally last until the first pillaged alcohol caravan.

In this case what makes humans special is ironically their averageness. They are so widespread because their rate of change is a golden mean - not long enough to seem stagnant, not short enough for the race to remain in chaos.

>>52426363
So like white people

>>52426425
>Humans are the closest thing man has made
Wut

>>52410049
Because the person writing and reading it is a human, you dumb shit

>>52428467
Humans make other humans.
Your parents should have explained this.

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>>52410049 (OP) #
>Why are humans so great, /tg/?
I believe in approaching things simply.

>What is great about humans?
The range of their bell curve.
That's it.

Most dwarves are like most dwarves.
Most elves are like most elves.
Most xeno are like most xeno.
And so on.
With other races, the best of that race isn't going to be that much different from the worst of that race, not compared to humanity.

The worst possible human in one aspect bears no resemblance to the worst possible human in another aspect.
Humans vary from unimaginably cruel to undeniably compassionate.
They can vary from frail, fragile creatures that can hardly survive, to strong and hardy warriors that can truly endure.
They can vary from being barely sentient to being able to grasp concepts conceived by the greatest minds in the universe.

Humans are sheep, cattle, livestock that, if remembered at all, will be remembered for the quality of their manual labor.
But one single human, if they're the right human, are unstoppable and can change the shape of the known world.

tl;dr: Humans have more PCs.

>>52410113

That's the Goblins, mang.

>>52411569

>breathes a flammable substance

By necessity, any creature that moves and breathes would have to breathe a flammable substance because the whole point of breathing is to facilitate metabolism. In fact I'm somewhat sure that any creature that does breathe would need to breathe something as flammable as oxygen, because a biological system probably couldn't get energy from anything less volatile.

That whole point of the HFY argument has always been retarded.

>>52421109
It's less of a question of a focus on how much lifting they do, and instead a question of things like muscle density. It's not that an orc is just naturally more swole than a human. It's that an orc's muscles are denser.

Think about Gorillas. Gorillas aren't that much bigger than humans. But they weigh multiple times what humans weigh, because Gorillas have denser muscles than humans.

>>52417951
Si, zergs, right?

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>>52426988
There is some kind of disrespect towards non-human races, magical things, beasts and monsters, fantasy-things in general in your average fantasy-based HFY-faggotry. Even hostility. Their whole purpose is to be killing, destroyed, raped, to show how great humans are. It makes me question how they got into this fantasy-stuff to begin with. They sure don't seem to enjoy these things. Then often these fantasy-things aren't even played by their strengths, they appear to be useless, dumb, a shitty strawman of their worst tropes, while the humans are written to have the advantage of whatever their writer deems the best. And that is one of the worst parts, it's all made-up scenarios and there is no internal and external logic that dictates that it has to be this way.
Let's be real for a second, I'm an elffag and it just annoys me how 95% of fantasy-based HFY-faggotry is against elves. Even in your post, no offense, you are comparing them with elves. It became synonymous with DEUS VULT- and Pelinal-posters for me. You sure are not proving how great humanity is by having an irrational hate-boner for a fictional race
Why are there no HFY-stories about being better than dwarves? Get a bit creative for once

>>52418876
There is no birthright, and I'm INSULTED that you would suggest that the testament to our species that is the continued human survival and dominance of earth on a magnitude no other creature can accomplish was some mere birthright. That a father passed this throne to us without us having to earn it.

Humanity was not given the earth. We TOOK the earth. We were born of it, as everyone else was, and we survived. Not only did we survive, we grew, we adapted and we CONQUERED.

You are the result of a thus-far undended line of victory. Each of your ancestors survived in a world oozing with death. And you want to look at this, shrug it off, and say "god gave this to me."

Fuck you, and fuck your god.

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This was your design all along, wasn't it?!

>>52428580
>I believe in approaching things simply.
The simplest answer would be "because I want them to be"

>>52428851
>he didn't notice the dwarf and elf thread copies

>>52428885
The elf thread was the beginning.

>>52428868
>The simplest answer would be "because I want them to be"
That's not really an answer that explains anything, though.

>What is two plus two?
The sum.
The simplest answer simply may not explain what the simple question seeks to answer.

>>52429014
It's the only answer that's true though

>>52428830
I think you just nailed it, honestly. To put it in more simple (and probably douchey) terms, humanity is a conqueror, not a pampered prince.

>>52429023
>It's the only answer that's true though
?

>What is two plus two?
The sum.
Four.
Five minus one.
Two times two.
One plus one plus one plus one.

>>52426444
Basically this
Actually, in TES, humans venerate Lorkhan, as their protector, who was literally an ultimate troll.

>>52429162
Akatosh is god-protector of mankind, you imbecile

>>52429113
>why are humans so great /tg/
Because you want them to be

>>52419651
>Implying this hard
>Making shit up even harder
Sure, anon, whatever you think. I've just pointed out the thread was over the moment one of the anons pointed out they are winning/won/will win, because that's how the plot was structured. In the same fashion you could make a setting when elves are just impossible to best, because you make them impossible to best. Or you make a setting where everyone is under the heel of alien starfish robot swarm, because you wrote the setting this way. Or maybe it was all a LEGO set used by little Johnny and the big reveal for the PCs is realisation they are just toys in hand of a 6-year old.

But sure, keep it going, it's petty amusing how butthurt - genuinely or just for the sake of memes - you appear to be.

>>52425260
>2017
>Seriously using eugenics as an argument
HFY faggots are really getting desperate

>>52429197
>>why are humans so great /tg/
>Because you want them to be
The simplest answer, while true, simply may not explain what the simple question seeks to answer.
There are other true answers that might actually provide information that explains what the question asks.
It's not the only answer that's true.

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>>52410049
You're forgetting technology and numbers.

In most medieval fantasy humans have medieval technology while orcs and possible elves are stuck with some seriously inferior tech.

>>52428813
You are mistaking that comparison. Its not out of hostility to elves, I like them too. It's more like emnity to humans.

>>52428813
Frankly speaking, I didn't encounter that much of antielf sentiment in HFY. Well, they are most advanced race after humans in fantasy world, and sometimes only real opponent, worthy of mentioning. (I mean, just look at TES, only Humans and Elves can achieve something, others are simply inferior). This is not antielf, its more anti[opponent].
also, hello fellow elfaggot

>>52423593
>The only good reason(ing) for HFY, ever.

>>52410049

Humanity's strength, compared to other races, kind of varies based on the setting.

In most fantasy settings, humans dominate the land simply by merit of being both incredibly numerous, yet not stupid or socially retarded like other massive races such as orcs, goblins, etc, but with FAR MORE ambition than other races like Elves and Dwarves and Halflings.

Basically, Humanity is usually portrayed a socially acceptable warmongering race that essentially conquered most of the world while the other elder races leaned back and said "Huh, wonder if we should do something about this."

Basically Fantasy Humans are Orcs that are smarter and more sociable but not as strong.

In sci-fi settings, Humanity's strength is usually really nebulous, usually something along the lines of again being quite numerous and being "inventive" or "ambitious" or "unconventional".

But oddly in those settings they usually go out of their way to explain how humans aren't the best, while continuing to make them win all the time against all comers.

>>52428813
Death to knife-eared freaks.
Go back to >>>treeddit

>>52426988
I know it's been thrown around a lot in this thread, but see >>52414945 . Most of the hate for HFY is the fact that the majority of the setting IS hamfisted settings because "da hoomans won cuz they are bettah".

The original point was that humans don't have some edge, they're not super strong or smart or agile or tough, but the fact that it's a combination of things, mostly that can be traced back to our "humanity". Take, for example (as a few anons here have thrown around), Halo.

>Old Halo
You have humans, who are advanced but recognisable to us, fighting a losing battle against the Covenant who by all accounts should be stomping us without batting an eyelash. Their standard issue sidearm is a plasma weapon that even UNSC spec-ops armour has difficulty stopping more than a glancing blow from.

But there's no magic bullet that we pull out of our asses. The ayylmaos aren't deathly allergic to our jizz, we don't assrape them strategically (hell, even the few Tactical Genius moments are still pretty hard losses), and we certainly aren't physically better. It's a combination of things; looking ahead with the Cole Protocol to stop them from finding Core Worlds at all costs, playing the pride of some enemy commanders against each other, subjecting our own children to horrifying experiments to make supersoldiers that can *just about* go toe-to-toe with the enemy's top ranks.

>New Halo
hur dur manifest destiny humankind are the chosen ones also we can just casually reverse engineer forerunner tech yeah thats a thing now

>>52424792
Kizumonogatari

>>52426363
that last paragraph saved it from being cancerwank.

>>52429847
I think people never give serious consideration to what the definitive traits of humanity are, things that actually molded our culture and will probably be around for eternity. The default of HFY fuckers is acting like we're heroic or creative, but ultimately that's distilling aspects of a few greats down to the lowest common denominator.

I liked the Star Control humans. They are the industrial race. They weren't the heroes or the leaders, but when they had to reach the stars they did it. The machines weren't beautiful, they had ships like the natural extreme of a garage car. They drank coffee, got orders, and built ships. That was humans.

Fact is that as much as collar jobs are maligned, they're really quite impressive as a function and most humans are never worth more than that in any setting.

>>52410049

Because humans write the stories.

I'm glad it's over.

>>52431766
>I'm glad it's over.
Humanity?

>>52418839
Equality isn't real

>>52431996
Yes, Humanity stops now.

>>52432085
Good, I was getting tired of it.

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>>52432120