What actual power did the one ring have, aside from turning people

>>52345118
It could turn the user into a dragon.

Couldn't Sauron control the minds of lesser beings that wore the rest of the Rings

>>52345118
Its primary power was allowing the user to read and control the minds of others, especially people who had connection to the other rings of power.

>>52345118
It gives you plot power in real life if you are Sauron. If you aren't Sauron, it gives you plot power but manipulates you.

Made sure they never got lost because Sauron could always keep an eye on them.

>>52345118
More importantly, how fast could a space marine destroy Sauron, his ring and his entire army?

>>52345179
Given how often they fall to Chaos, there's an even chance that one of them would just wind up working for Sauron for no clearly defined reason other than exposure to his evil

>>52345205
>Muh corruption
Fine, make it a grey knight. Not even Draigo, just a simple grey knight.

>>52345217
Aren't GKs corruptible now too?

>>52345179
They couldn't.

The One ring would inevitably corrupt them because they would attempt to use it to save humanity.

>>52345217
I think he'd run out of ammo before Sauron ran out of orcs.

Even with melee weapons instead of psilencers, you're talking about one marine against over 100,000 orcs, let alone the 12 Ringwraiths, trolls, or any of Sauron's allies (Saruman, the Haradrim, etc). I don't think a single marine could. Maybe a kill team could.

>>52345179
well Sauron would count as a Powerful Chaos sorcerer or even a daemon prince, so chances are he could kill a lot of space marines. plus he has an army of Zombie feral world eldar (orcs dont really translate to orks)

>>52345217
I would Imagen he would speardhead into an entire army of orcs,elves and Dwarven while Initial D is blasting "Gas,Gas,Gas"

>>52345266
There are 9 ringwraiths, not 12.

And the books rather heavily imply that they're not great at direct personal combat, they're more the leader and frightener kind of role, and I don't think their magical fear auras are likely to work on an Astartes.

>>52345118
Lets the wearer fly. At least, that's what Gandalf thought. FLY, YOU FOOLS!

>>52345316
The eagles. He meant the eagles. "Fly the rest of the way to Mordor".

>>52345343
Oh god dammit, not this bullshit again...

>>52345294
Shit, my bad. That's still not counting however many trolls Sauron had, or that the Felbeasts could just pick him up and drop him.

>>52345343
>>52345351
Yeah, that's a good question: Why didn't the Fellowship just fly to Mordor using the eagles?

>>52345524
Because there's at least one flying beast seen in Mordor, fucktonne of archers but the biggest reason is that they were Eagles, not eagles. They had sentience, they had pride, they weren't some fucking taxi service and if they knew about the ring they would be tempted to take it for themselves.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/80/c8/71/80c871f2376db1aa269a49a35a08048e.jpg

>>52345343
>>52345524
We've fucking BEEN through this shit before.

>>52345524
Because you can't fucking hide from Sauron's Eye in the sky, dipshit.

>>52345217
Orcs charge. First few turns, he guns down one or two orcs each turn with his storm bolter. A few dozen reach charge range, engage in melee and poke him with their S3 spears until they wound him and he fails his crappy 2+ armour save. They then eat him and skull fuck his corpse.

My theory is that forging a ring was actually massive fuckup from Mairon's side

He did craft it to gain power over free peoples, through making their leaders his thralls. The ONLY real purpose of the One was to control wearers of Three, Seven and Nine. Unfortunately for Sauron only Men fell for it.

ONLY real purpose. Everything else is side effects. And those

To forge something like this, Sauron need to invest a lot of his peronal "inner" power and imbue it within the ring. Which was quite acceptable for him, because as long as he had the ring on this power was still available to him, and he never even considered possibility of losing it. No other person was ever meant to wear it. But somehow it happened.

What it caused is that person, strong and knowledgeable enough could use the ring to wield the part of Sauron's power imbued within the ring, much like Sauron himself did to compensate the loss of this power from his "main pool".
Invisibility is actually effect of Sauron being more creature of Unseen world than Seen one. Corruptible nature is stemmed from the fact that the part of Sauron inside has his own personality and the ring is, at least to a degree, sentient being. But none of those was even considered by it's creator. It just "happened" when Ring found itself in state of affairs that was utterly unpredicted.

All in allm it would be better for Sauron to never make it, for it brought him little, (nine powerful servants and arguably their subjects, and maybe weakening the dwarves) while ultimately being his doom, in more than one sense (not only it's destruction meant his own, but also it allowed elves to use Three, who were inherent to original plan of the ring trickery, which allowed them to linger in Middle-Earth more and be vital to final victory.

File: He+hates+it+_9c994d547ae3c6740d422726da8627a6.jpg (141KB, 1280x960px) Image search: [Google]

141KB, 1280x960px

>>52345661
>that watermark over an oglaf comic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Gyges

File: TheEagles.jpg (215KB, 1600x1122px) Image search: [Google]

215KB, 1600x1122px

>>52345593
Dozens of eagles could overcome a few flying monsters in mordor.
Archers can't shoot as high as eagles can fly.
The Eagles owed Gandalf and Elrond a shit tonne of favours, so fuck their pride.
The ring(s) were made for humanoids, not giant eagles, they wouldn't be tempted.

And finally, their music could have driven Sauron and his forces into hiding with the power of their rocking. Check and mate.

File: 1486746991057.png (2MB, 1523x1348px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1523x1348px

>>52345524

>>52345702
>Archers can't shoot as high as eagles can fly.

Contradicted by The Hobbit.

http://teacherweb.com/BC/HDStaffordMiddleSchool/Sandquist/the_hobbit.pdf

Page 80 of the PDF

>The Lord of the Eagles would not take them anywhere near where men lived. "They would shoot at us with their great bows of yew," he said, "for they would think we were after their sheep. And at other times, they would be right. No! we are glad to cheat the goblins of their sport, and glad to repay our thanks to you, but we will not risk ourselves for dwarves in the southward plains."

>>52345715
Well that's a good question too, I mean an Istari should be able to form a stable wormhole at least once in their lifeform, no?

>>52345670

Very good post. Very very good post.

I'd quibble about the Seven not fucking with the Dwarves. Perhaps not as directly as Sauron would have wished, but definitely in the long run.

The Seven definitely increased the wearer's avarice to the point of monomania. Further reinforcing the Seven's effects is that they worked after a fashion. The behavior the Seven encouraged got you gold as the many references to the Seven needing gold to get more gold suggest.

The Seven thus encouraged you to be more of a dick while also rewarding you for that dickish behavior. With their kings acting like a dicks, the "social cohesion" of the dwarf kingdoms suffered.

Finally, accumulating more and more gold painted a big fucking target on your back and not just from dragons. So you're acting like a dick to gather more treasure while pissing off the relatives, friends, and subjects who you'll need to defend the horde.

So, the Seven fucked up the Dwarves. Not by turning the "fathers" of the seven houses into Nazguls, but by corrupting Dwarven society.

File: 317.png (90KB, 500x501px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 500x501px

>>52345615
Yes, yes we have.
Stop giving the (you)s.

>>52345118

Provided you can master the ring, (Frodo and Bilbo could not) it gives you the power to bend mens' will to your desires, persuade or intimidate or deceive or straight-out mind control in some cases, and probably a lot of other things.

Remember, Sauron put "the greater part of his power" within the ring.It's like 60% of Sauron himself locked in there, which is why he can't die as long as the ring exists to tie him to the world.

Consider how Galadriel has mastered her ring, and as a result it is invisible while she is not, and she's used it to defend her forest and hide it from the eyes of Sauron's servants.
Frodo and Bilbo, on the other hand, are not personally strong enough to bend the ring to their will and use it. Instead it uses them, pushing them into the spirit realm where they're naked before Sauron's gaze, and always striving to return itself home.

Also read the passage where Gandalf and Saruman argue over it -- Saruman claims he's cracked the rings' secrets and Gandalf should give it to him, because he can wield it and defeat Sauron with it, and Gandalf reminds him of his oath to study the tools of the enemy, but never to use them. He says Saruman might do as he says, and create a golden age with the ring, but the ring would still corrupt him sooner or later, and they'd have a new Dark Lord to contend with.

>>52347690
The thing is the wrong DOES have a mind of its own, either from distilled pure evil or because it wasn't just Sauron's power but his mind leaked into the thing as well. If the ring dislikes you for any reason or you are more trouble than you are worth to it it has a habit of slipping off your finger at the worst possible times. It would rather sit at the bottom of a pond for ages than

It also seems to have trouble with nasty Hobbitses. Unlike men they don't seem to be quite as easy to corrupt. Perhaps owing to their usual lifestyle? Smeagol was already a shitface, though, so much easier to strengthen his darker side until his own people kicked him out. Who knows how long it took to fully corrupt his physical form or if his body otherwise adapted to the caverns from his unnaturally extended life (another one of the ring's little gifts not to be overlooked). At any rate Bilbo took decades before it had him calling it precious and Frodo's trouble with the ring grew worse the closer he came to Sauron very possibly coupled with the ring's own desperation against its own destruction.

>>52347995
>It also seems to have trouble with nasty Hobbitses.

I think the problem for it is that Hobbits don't really have much in the way of ambition or greed. There's not much to grab on to. With so little to tempt the hobbit to use the ring for, it's hard to manipulate them.

>>52348128
I always liked the bit were it tries to tempt Samwise. "Take the ring, conquer the world and turn it into a garden I guess?"

>>52348261
>>52348128

When they return to the shire they find that the greed has affected the hobbits - one has even started hoarding pipeweed.

Honestly feel like the hobbits lack the imagination to go megalomaniacal more than lacking ambition or greed

>>52346060
>>52345670
That is some real insidious Gurthang grade awfulness.

IT LIES!!!

It controls the minds of others. Specifically the owners of the other rings. Hence the nazgul

>>52347690
>Provided you can master the ring, (Frodo and Bilbo could not)

That's not quite right. Frodo at least set out to deliberately NOT master the Ring, and even then, he started getting drips and draps of power from it beyond just invisibility; his far-sight on Amon Hen, or his binding of Smeagol's fate with the Ring's power. And at that last moment in Mount Doom, when he turned his back on the quest, he did claim the ring, and some mastery of its power.

According to word of God https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/the_letters_of_j.rrtolkien.pdf (letter 246)

>It is an interesting problem: how Sauron would have acted or the claimant have resisted. Sauron set at once the Ringwraiths. They were naturally fully instructed, and in no way deceived as to the real lordship of the Ring. The wearer would not be invisible to them, but the reverse; and the more vulnerable to their weapons. But the situation was now different to that under Weathertop, where Frodo acted merely in fear and wished only to use (in vain) the Ring's subsidariary power of conferring invisibility. He had grown since then. Would they have been immune from its power if he claimed it as an instrument of command and domination?
>Not wholly. I do not think they could have attacked him with violence, nor laid hold upon him or taken him captive; they would have obeyed or feigned to obey any minor commands of his that did not interfere with their errand- laid upon them by Sauron, who still through their nine rings (which he held) had primary control of their wills. That errand was to remove Frodo from the Crack. Once he had lost the power or opportunity to destroy the Ring, the end could not be in doubt, saving help from the outside, which was hardly even remotely possible.

>>52345524
IIRC, Tolkien admitted that the eagles were just deus ex machina. Also, the whole "why didn't they just fly to Mordor" meme wasn't really a thing until the internet took off and people started analyzing this stuff more seriously.

>>52347995
The same letter (246) goes into the ring having a mind of its own, but it's also not all powerful.

>Sauron would not have feared the Ring! It was his own and under his will. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. Of 'mortals', no onem not even Aragorn (Skipping a bit)
>Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him- being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form. (Another skip)
>One can imagine the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. It would be a delicate balance. On one side the true allegiance of the ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also be cause he was weakened by long corrupttion and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed,taken from him forever.


And while he goes on as to how Ringlord Gandalf would eventually be corrupted, it's quite clear that despite the 'wishes' of the Ring, he could theoretically use it to 'kill' Sauron.

>>52346060
Another thing to consider is that the dwarves digging greedily after more riches eventually unearthed a balrog in Moria.

It seems like most assume this was just an unfortunate coincidence, but "dig up one or more of sauron's old allies" could very well have been the intended result of handing the rings to the dwarves.

>>52345118
It wasn't as much a powerful artifact in itself as it was an anchor, a conduit. Through it Sauron was bound to Middle Earth and all his workings were firmly linked there too. Through it he could use his inert power to influence the lesser beings in Middle Earth.

The Ring didn't make Sauron or the Bearer more powerful, it simply allowed Sauron or the Bearer to use Saurons Spiritual Power on Material and Mental Levels. As long as the Ring existed, Sauron couldn't be banished to the void because the Ring was basically his foot in the door.

>>52345702
>The ring(s) were made for humanoids, not giant eagles, they wouldn't be tempted.
The fucking movie shows the ring shrink down to human size when Sauron's fingers get the slice, retard.

>>52348885
>Tolkien admitted that the eagles were just deus ex machina
Isn't that completely in-tone for the story, though? I mean, this is a fictional mythology we're talking about. Maybe the eagles couldn't carry the Ring because It Just Doesn't Work.

>>52348885
He admits that the Eagles are Deus Ex Machina, but in a far more limited scope; by all rights, Frodo "should" have had to make the sacrifice of his life, being a quasi-Jesus figure and stepping into something totally out of his reach, and resolving the quest by casting himself into the fire. The Eagles (and gollum, to an extent) were a way of sparing the character, not of ultimately resolving the Quest.

File: 1405891753921.jpg (51KB, 500x484px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 500x484px

>I know from clear memory that I would not want to re-experience some of those moments again with my own child; the anxiety, the illnesses, the exhaustion..but what wouldn't I give to be able to go back to some of those moments in more than memory? The pain is only made bearable, the sadness only made blessed by love and by art.

>Reading is a kind of doubled conciousness, existing somewhere between pure memory and lived experience. When we look at our own children, we see not only their current forms but all they have been before. In this kind of doubled perception, love and sadness are intertwined.

>The ruin in the landscape, or the textual ruin created by all of Tolkien's techniques catalyses this change, linking together the imagination, the current experience and recollection, intwining the past and the present with each other so that they are, in Aragorn's dying words, more than memory. More than memory transmutes the pain of exile, of separation and loss through the movement of time, the "Heimweh", into something still sad but now, as Tolkien says of the tears of the hobbits at their parting at the Grey Havens, blessed, without bitterness.

File: 1990_67.png (12KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 500x500px

>>52349011
>The past is everywhere and yet at the same time out of reach, overlaid permanently by the present, worn away by time and change and even fallible memory. You don't have to wait a quarter century from the time of some of your most cherished memories to have this feeling, though such a gap certainly accentuates it. The price of a memory is the memory of the sorrow it brings, says the song. Pain for the lost home is common to every human as we are separated from our childhoods, from our youths, from our first experiences.

>How do you read Tolkien? By paying attention to the ways that different features of his works combine to produce and transform sadness not into bitterness, but into something richer, greater, something fully human. Reading Tolkien this way you see the true scope of his achievement to touch the heart and you understand now much more fully how Sam's words "Well, I'm home." are both joyous and heartbreaking.

>>52345670
Wait, the ring was taken from his broken body, wouldn't he just had died at the time if he hadn't made the ring?

>>52345118
You kind of have to take all of JRRTs macguffins as allegory.

>The Silmarils
Eden, the literal light of a dark world, something 'perfect' lost to the infighting of the elves. Seeking the treelight is akin to seeking their old perfection, a meaningless task knowing that they already blemished their ideals.

>Arkenstone
Tied more closely to a wider idea of greed and its corruptive nature. The Dwarves confuse their noble task of reclaiming their homeland with the hoarding of their old riches to the detriment of others. The stone is the crownpiece of their lost home, but also the height of their hubris.

> The One Ring
All of mortal fallibility, and its manipulable nature rolled into one focal point. If a person has want or desire, the ring will inevitably dig into that aspect and slowly bind them to the dark lord's will. 'Mind Control' is a bit of a misnomer, I'd say- rather than demanding something of someone, it shows them a path to their desires and amplifies that want to the exception of other thoughts. The path it leads them down will just so happen to lead back to the ring's true owner.

>>52349089
>You kind of have to take all of JRRTs macguffins as allegory.
Uh, why? are you my AP lit teacher?

>>52348886
That the One Ring could corrupt even powerful figures like Gandalf is no huge shock. One need only look at Galadriel's reaction to it, after all. She, Gandalf, and Elrond all have a Ring of Power, The Three given to the Elves, but the One Ring is something far greater in terms of its power AND the mental influence it exerts.

If you want true immunity, both to the power and likely the corruption, seek ye Tom Bombadil and despair. God he was an annoying fucker. Hell, during the Council of Elrond it isn't even that Bombadil is supreme in his own realm that makes him immune, it's that the One Ring literally has no hold over him and he would have trouble fathoming its importance and might just misplace the damn thing.

>>52349198
I thought one of the point was that the more powerful you were the more tempting it would be.
And Bombadil doesn't count.

>what is wiki

aint hard to google nigga

people who already have epic powers:
>amplifies their existing powers
>you can scry
>you can read minds
>you can issue telepathic commands
>you can control bearers of lesser rings
>you generally become drawn to more power and your destiny toward ostensible greatest is amplified
>you're still fucked because the ring is literally over half of sauron's soul, so the whole time all these powers exist to jew you in the end

weak nerds who have no powers:
>it turns you invisible to normies, but makes people who know their shit MORE aware of your presence and you become more vulnerable to their attacks
>it makes you seem like a badass, you can project a false aura of power and trick people into thinking you're a navy seal, or even give the physical illusion that you are some dark lord. this only happens sporadically and isn't very reliable though
>it sometimes gives you random insights and the ability to predict the future
>after you're far gone into corruption, you become capable of issuing mental commands like powerful dudes, but again it's not very reliable. can also issue minor prophecies.

>>52349314
My own view is that it is a mixed bag. It isn't just your power that makes you corruptible, however if you are powerful enough to access the Ring's power the more you draw on it to augment yourself (which you'd need to do to challenge Sauron) the more you corrupt yourself. So yes being powerful is a huge factor but less about your own powers than how much you draw from a tainted source. And even beyond defeating Sauron, people like Galadriel and Gandalf seek to help others, everyone or specifically their own people in their own borders. The temptation to use the Ring would always be there. Once you start using it even to help people you're drawing that power into yourself and it will stain your very being.

>>52349348
>forgot that it extends your life artificially

>>52349314
You fool, the more you ignore Tom Bombadil the stronger he becomes!

>>52345118
The Ring contains part of Sauron himself. So it shares his powers, and if your will was somehow stronger than his you could control him and have all his powers.

It mainly grants whatever power would most seduce the user. Since we only really see Hobbits (Gollum was one) put it on, and they are unambitious folk who naturally are good at sneaking, it only turns them invisible.
>>52345179
>>52345217
The way Tolkien works anyone not working for Eru or who intentionally seeks power (the opposite of praising Eru) fails all WILL saves and slowly becomes Sauron's. Or Morgoth's if he's still around.

Even the God Emperor would be Sauron's slave. Chaos itself would kneel to his almighty will.

>>52345524
Giant Eagles are the servants of Eru. The guy who is the almighty god, and created literally everything that exists other than possibly Ungoliant and Bombadil to act out his preplanned story for his amusement. The Eagles literally only show up when Eru planned for them to, otherwise they simply tell you to fuck off. NOBODY but Eru can give them orders and they only take rare requests from Gandalf.
>>52345670
Christopher Tolkien literally stated exactly that in the foreward to one of the editions of Silmarillion. So you are correct, sir.

>>52349037
The ring was full of his power and part of his soul, power needed to bind body to spirit.
But Sauron was not a mortal being, so just losing his body didn't kill him. The lack of anything tying him to the mortal realm and the fragmented spirit after the destruction of the ring caused him to finally die and those bound to the other rings of power with him. Since the Dwarves were already dead and Elves never bothered with theirs, it only killed the Ringwraiths.

>>52349136
No, but Tolkien himself spelled it out exactly that way.

Also, he was a lit teacher.

>>52349314
According to Tolkien, pursuit of power is a rejection of god.

Hobbits, having so little ambition that even war over land and a centralized government are unnatural and foreign concepts, are the closest to god as a result. By contrast the beings who rebelled against god like Morgoth and Sauron cannot comprehend him; Tolkien stated that the reason Sauron lost is he was so power hungry he was unable to comprehend not being so. It gave him mastery and ability to turn any being capable of greed to him eventually, but also made him overlook everything else.

How was Sauron emotionally/mentally when he lost the One Ring?
Does he still have cruelty, malice, and a will to dominate all life if he poured them in the One Ring?

>>52349136
>Uh, why?

Because JRRT's mcguffins ARE allegories. That's why.

Tolkien was both a deeply religious man and a highly educated one. He knew the sagas and myth cycles he studied and taught had larg3e allegorical components so he knew his saga would have to have the same.

>are you my AP lit teacher?

No, but he is someone asking you to THINK instead of bleating "muh eegulls" and all the other memes these threads attract.

>>52349664
>Because JRRT's mcguffins ARE allegories. That's why.

He said multiple times that he hates allegory and that people who try to find "meaning" in it annoy him, that the LOTR story is just a fun tale about fairy myths and linguistics autism.

More than likely he subconsciously inserted things as all people do because worldviews exist, but to say that LOTR is some kind of intense allegory is bullshit. He disliked C. S. Lewis's writings because of this.

>>52349704
He definitely vehemently protested the "LOTR=WW2 commentary" interpretation that people bugged him with every day (to the point that he put it in the foreword of later editions), but all allegories, really?

>>52349733
“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.”

>>52349704
They aren't allegories about the real world, but about the themes he infused into his work.

Tolkien's intentions were to build a mythology. He succeeded. The "high fantasy" tag came later.

As all mythologies, and as Tolkien knew better than any of us, LofR has themes and lessons and morals to convey.

>>52349823
Sure but see
>>52349759
>I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.

It wasn't an allegory. You can write morals and themes into a story without using allegory. As mentioned, he criticized his friend's C. S. Lewis's work because it was so hamfisted about muh jesus etc.

>>52349514
>Giant Eagles are the servants of Eru.
Strictly speaking they serve Manwe, but that dude is very serious about his God-given duties and responsibilities so it nets out to the same thing.

>>52345179
He couldn't, at all. Now go kill yourself.

Could Morgoth have made his own "One Ring"?

Why didn't he?

>>52350190
because he was busy making cooler shit, like dragons the size of continents.

>>52350277
oh no this will attract the Ancalagonfags and their images

>>52349514
>the destruction of the ring caused him to finally die

It caused him to fade away to the point where he can observe the universe but not interact with it. He will watch the world till the end of days. Unable to act, whisper to anyone, scream in frustration, sleep or even weep. A great lidless eye watching all it built up destroyed and the grass grow over the ruble and the stones weather away and eventually be forgotten utterly.

And he will stay like that till the unmaking of the world in some far off distant age.

>>52350710
Obviously, the most fitting punishment for him would be to turn all of Mordor into the Second Shire.
Nothing but unambitious midgets doing shit-all in what was his old home, farming in the rich volcanic ash, using the stones from his fell towers to carve decorative knickknacks.

>>52350190
Tolkien had this to say about it:
>Melkor 'incarnated' himself (as Morgoth) permanently. He did this so as to control the hroa, the 'flesh' or physical matter, of Arda. He attempted to identify himself with it. A vaster, and more perilous, procedure, though of similar sort to the operations of Sauron with the Rings. Thus, outside the Blessed Realm, all 'matter' was likely to have a 'Melkor ingredient', and those who had bodies, nourished by the hroa of Arda, had as it were a tendency, small or great, towards Melkor: they were none of them wholly free of him in their incarnate form, and their bodies had an effect upon their spirits.
>But in this way Morgoth lost (or exchanged, or transmuted) the greater part of his original 'angelic' powers, of mind and spirit, while gaining a terrible grip upon the physical world. For this reason he had to be fought, mainly by physical force, and enormous material ruin was a probable consequence of any direct combat with him, victorious or otherwise. This is the chief explanation of the constant reluctance of the Valar to come into open battle against Morgoth. Manwe's task and problem was much more difficult than Gandalf's. Sauron's, relatively smaller, power was concentrated; Morgoth's vast power was disseminated. The whole of 'Middle-earth' was Morgoth's Ring, though temporarily his attention was mainly upon the North-west.

(1/2)

>>52350190
>>52350879
>Unless swiftly successful, War against him might well end in reducing all Middle-earth to chaos, possibly even all Arda. It is easy to say: 'It was the task and function of the Elder King to govern Arda and make it possible for the Children of Eru to live in it unmolested.' But the dilemma of the Valar was this: Arda could only be liberated by a physical battle; but a probable result of such a battle was the irretrievable ruin of Arda. Moreover, the final eradication of Sauron (as a power directing evil) was achievable by the destruction of the Ring. No such eradication of Morgoth was possible, since this required the complete disintegration of the 'matter' of Arda. Sauron's power was not (for example) in gold as such, but in a particular form or shape made of a particular portion of total gold. Morgoth's power was disseminated throughout Gold, if nowhere absolute (for he did not create Gold) it was nowhere absent. (It was this Morgoth-element in matter, indeed, which was a prerequisite for such 'magic' and other evils as Sauron practised with it and upon it.)
>It is quite possible, of course, that certain 'elements' or conditions of matter had attracted Morgoth's special attention (mainly, unless in the remote past, for reasons of his own plans). For example, all gold (in Middle-earth) seems to have had a specially 'evil' trend - but not silver. Water is represented as being almost entirely free of Morgoth. (This, of course, does not mean that any particular sea, stream, river, well, or even vessel of water could not be poisoned or defiled - as all things could.)

(2/2)

>>52348445
When they return to the Shire, a crippled Saruman had moved in and turned the place into Romania.

>>52350891
So Gold is literally evil in middle earth?

....that makes a lot of sense actually

>>52348941
>the movie
please reevaluate your lifechoices

>>52351093
Hey now, all that glitters is not gold but a dragon would probably hump it either way.

File: IMG_6147.png (2MB, 1842x1608px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1842x1608px

>>52351275

It made Sam look like a badass

>>52345118
When I first read the book when I was younger in my head I always assumed the ring gave a person power based on what they most desired. Hobbits tend to want to stick to their own life and be left alone so they turned invisible. Humans wanted to be in control so they were given powers to help influence those around them. Sauron got what ever the fuck he wanted because he was Sauron.

>>52351646
You were correct in everything but Sauron. The ring actually was part of him, like a Horcrux or Phylactery except it made him stronger instead of keeping him alive.

>>52349198
I thought bombadil was supposed to be more a representation of middle earth itself. As in the actual land mass/wood/mountains/whatever. And it was supposed to be a statement about howthe world itself will always have a sort of permanence despite whatever the fuck humans/dwarfs.elfs/whatever are doing. Hence why the ring did fuck all to tom, becuse even if evil dose take over the world, there is still in fact, a world to be had.

>>52351764
Tolkien himself said he didn't know what Bombadill was

>>52351851
He did know, he was a character he put in because his children loved the character, thats as far as it goes.

>>52351851
Well, he said Bombadil is identical to a doll his children had and was a character from stories he wrote for them.

What he means in Middle Earth is anyone's guess though.

You lot all know about Tolkien's Father Christmas Letters, right?

>>52351646
The Ring turns all mortals invisible as a side effect. That's why Isildur (and the Ringwraiths) became invisible.

DID SOMEBODY SAY BOMBADIL?

https://youtu.be/ZZouiWmzWoY

>>52351552
So you're saying the dragon humped the wrong treasure and now has crabs?

>>52351926
I despise Tom Bombadil

he's a pustule of pointless boredom at the start of what is already the weakest book in the series, you could probably cut 100 pages away from that part and not harm the story in any significant way. The worst part is how everybody always creams themselves over him when he never does anything of note, he's just a total waste of time

>>52351883
A doll, I would add, that wound up flushed down the toilet.

>>52351978
Thing is, he's ludicrously entertaining conceptually.

He's the, pardon the reference to NC/TVTropes, Big Lipped Alligator Moment of the series in such an amazing way. There exists a being who may in fact predate the omnipotent God or at least be an early eldritch creation, accidentky brought a river to life by singing and decided to bang her despite her generally hating him, and gives so few fucks that the McGuffin of ultimate power in his control is more likely to be lost forever in his pockets than used.

While you are right in that it is strange and drags, its still fun.

>>52351985
Imagine how valuable that doll would be if someone unclogged it from a pipe.

>>52351978
>Fellowship
>the weakest book
Finished the hobbit and fellowship and am 95% of the way though towers. The ghimli/legolas/aragorn stuff is really cool. But FUCK........ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if reading about frodo and sam walking around being scared at thing dosnt make me want to bash my head in a brick wall. I found the way everything got established/built up in fellowship was cool. I love the counsel meeting, and it kept me entertained from start to finish. Towers is cool, and the first half is amazing, but this last half is just taking the piss.

>>52352092
Hobbit>King>Silmarilion>Fellowship>Tower

>>52352062
>accidentky brought a river to life by singing and decided to bang her despite her generally hating him

What

that doesn't describe his relation ship with goldberry at all

>>52352062
It just feels like such an unfired Checkov's gun, I get that the whole 'there are beings and powers beyond even the gods' thing is really cool but it could have been conveyed in a way that isn't so dull or unsatisfying

>>52352092
At least we get to see a new and interesting setting, the first half of Fellowship is just walking through the West Country until the book actually begins at Rivendell

>>52352115
The hobbit is awesome, but goes last by far.
Sweet Manwë.

>>52352115
The hobbit has been my favorite ive read so far. I how the dwarfs are all a bit assholeish and how bilbo becomes a bit of a shit towards the end. Should I read the silmarilion? I thought it was all just pre history stuff.

File: Hola_gai_dol!.jpg (13KB, 260x194px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 260x194px

>>52352087
I (think) the doll was actually recovered, but I doubt he was ever the same-a-dillo.

>>52351646
It's hard to say, since we only see hobbits wearing the ring (and Sauron, who kinda just does his own thing with it), but I happen to like the headcanon that the Ring augments the wearer's natural talents to the extreme; hobbits are comparatively stealthy and unassuming, so the Ring made them invisible to normal sight, and so on. (I suppose you could make that idea work for Sauron as well, if you want to conceptually view his "natural" talents as being along the lines of dominating the wills of mortals and the world itself.) This in turn plays into why, for example, Gandalf reacts so strongly to it, because he knows that he won't just be more strongly tempted by it, but that he would do the most harm of the entire Fellowship if it did, since he's technically still one of the Maiar.

>>52352115
King>Hobbit>Tower>Fellowship

King goes first for the siege of Minas Tirith alone

>>52352167
The Silmarillion is basically a cross between the Bible and a history textbook. If you liked the LotR appendices, you'll like the Silm. If you didn't, you probably won't be able to make it through the book.

>>52352212
This is what I've always assumed

If Boromir had got the ring he would have become a great leader of men, if a Dwarf had got the ring he would have become rich and prosperous, etc

>>52352148
His purpose was not actually for the universe itself.

Translating sagas and epics, you encounter a lot of dead-end information. People are mentioned without context like a well known character (like references to Teddy Roosevelt if it was the only surviving thing mentioning him), and things from the myths of neighbors make appearances; Saxons and Greeks did this a lot. This is alongside a myth suddenly sidelining into another myth that connects little to nothing to the story taking place like a short pocketbook slipped into a large hardcover, common in Greek and Norse stories.

Tolken put in things like Bombadil intentionally for this reason. Tom may have been important enough to Hobbits that in-universe authors had to slip him in somehow, or the in-universe author must have felt that it was mandatory to include him since the Hobbits were nearby and it would be strange to not mention it.

>>52352092
That is kinda true but Frodo is by far the best character in the vidya.

Specifically the gba games. They're based on the movies so of course hobbits are now badasses who can kill orcs with knives, but the 2nd and 3rd games are surprisingly well done old school-style Diablo clones, especially for a movie tie-in product. The first game weirdly is not an action game and generally considered skippable. They are very faithful to the movies too, using the same soundtrack, all the scenes are from the movie and actually done justice, etc.

If you haven't played those games it's worth it to check them out on a gba emulator at least. Frodo's route is top fun, you can do multiple builds from becoming better at using the ring (which makes you invisible for a short period and lets you sneak attack, but raises your corruption meter which has many ill effects, eventually summoning ringwraiths who will fuck your shit up good) to trap-based Frodo who runs around clamping orc legs. Frodo is best because he requires you to use the most tactics in what would normally be a more hack and slash affair, since he's a midget who must rely on stealth.

>>52352227
I'll add to this that at 13 when I read the books back to back I couldn't get through it and wound up just reading every other paragraph to make it go faster. Trying again at 22 I think, I was absorbed.

>>52352252
That seems a bit self-indulgent in my opinion. The in-universe author was Frodo wasn't it? Similar to how Bilbo wrote The Hobbit?

>>52352092
>>52352215
Book 2 of Fellowship > Book 1 of King > Book 2 of Towers > Book 1 of Towers > Hobbit > Book 2 of King > Book 1 of Fellowship

And for supplementary stuff
Morgoth's Ring > Unfinished Tales > War of the Jewels > Letters of JRR Tolkien > Silmarillion > Lays of Beleriand > Peoples of Middle-earth > Lost Road > Sauron Defeated > Return of the Shadow > Treason of Isengard > War of the Ring > Lost Tales 2 > Lost Tales 1 > Shaping of Middle-earth

>>52352284
>>52352252
Oh fuck me. Is frodo supposed to be the narrator in the books? Is bilbo supposed to be the narrator in the hobbit?

>>52351163
So you think Isildur wore that fucking giant ring like a necklace or what? Sauron was definitely referenced as a big dude.

>>52352284
Bilbo wrote The Hobbit although there's edits made by later accounts including Frodo, but the trilogy is a collection of histories and different sources translated by an author like Tolkien (who translated a lot of real sagas) in the modern day (or the year the books came out) equivalent of Middle Earth.

Tolkien intended the books to read like they were England's real mythology because as a boy when he got super obsessed with myths like Norse, Egyptian, and Greek, he was always bummed out that those of England were lost to time. So he sort of accidently spent his entire life creating a mythology for England as realistic as possible.

Tolkien was interested into how Christian influence transformed myth, making Baldr go from retard to Jesus and Loki from comedian to Satan in Norse for example, and as a deeply religious man this helped him out since the accounts of the trilogy should read like it was altered in later eras by Middle Earth Christain (Eruistic?) historians.

>>52352349
Bilbo wrote There And Back Again. Frodo continues the story with The Downfall of the Lord of the Rings and the Return of the King, respectively these are The Hobbit and LOTR.

These are collectively referred to as:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_of_Westmarch

>>52352349
Remember when at the very end, before Frodo takes off with Bilbo to live with the Elves for the rest of their lives, he guves Sam a huge stack of paper in a folder?

Deed to Bag End, as well as all the notes from both Bilbo's account and Frodo's as well. Sam is left to pass on the story, much like how Tolkien left all his notes and an unfinished Middle Earth to Christopher.

The finished version you read is partially Bilbo and Frodo's words, but also Sam's and those of the authors who compiled and translated through the ages.

File: IMG_6149.jpg (37KB, 570x352px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 570x352px

>>52352354
FOR US!

>>52352448
In the books the ring is described as changing size more than once.

>>52352448
keg

>>52352433
>Remember when at the very end
no, because I havent actually finished the series yet. Ive only read the hobbit,fellowship, and am most of the way though towers. Ive seen all the movies though, sans the new hobbit because that shit got fucking dropped when I found out they were splitting it into 3 movies.

>>52352503
The movies don't really tell you much about the Red Book other than showing Bilbo and Frodo writing a little of their parts. The whole spiel is:

>Tolkien says the original Red Book of Westmarch was not preserved. Several copies, with various notes and later additions, were made. The first copy was made by request of King Elessar of Arnor and Gondor, and was brought to Gondor by Thain Peregrin I, who had been one of Frodo's companions. This copy was known as the Thain's Book and "contained much that was later omitted or lost". In Gondor it underwent much annotation and correction, particularly regarding Elvish languages. Also added was an abbreviated version of The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen by Faramir's grandson Barahir.[5]

>A copy of a revised and expanded Thain's Book was made probably by request of Peregrin's great-grandson and delivered to the Shire. It was written by the scribe Findegil and stored at the Took residence in Great Smials. Tolkien says this copy was important because it alone contained the whole of Bilbo's Translations from the Elvish.[5]

>This version survives until Tolkien's time, and he translates the Red Book from the original languages into English and other representative languages or lects (e.g. Old English for Rohirric).[6]

So what you're supposed to be reading is basically the modern version that has been revised and changed so much from the original it might as well be the Bible.

>>52352503
First Hobbit was good. The other two were full of bullshit added for padding and excuses for a sequence to sell tickets for 3d.

They show Frodo give Sam the folder at the end of Return in the movie.

Also, this is a good video for the first movie differences.

https://youtu.be/8bybk9Eo2oQ

>>52345118
It makes you better at whatever you're good at.

Sneaky hobbits become invisible warriors become Gods of war. Dark Lords become all

>>52349624
So.... did nothing happen to his mind when he lost the ring?

>>52349624
Yes, thoughts and emotions aren't like water. You can put them into something without draining the original source.

>>52352569
>Sneaky hobbits become invisible
Stop spreading misinformation. Hobbits, like all other mortals, are drawn into the wraith world by Sauron's corruption. Isildur also became invisible and he definitely wasn't a hobbit.

>>52352559
So the books are supposed to be some sort of historical......translation thing? and Tolkin is just the transcriptor? Thats pretty badass, and makes some of the writing make a bit more sense. Is all of that in the forwards I didnt bother reading? I hang around lotar nerd all the time and this is the first im hearing of it.

>>52352651
You have never hung around a LOTR nerd if you didn't know that..

The world was young, the mountains green,
No stain yet on the Moon was seen,
No words were laid on stream or stone
When Durin woke and walked alone.
He named the nameless hills and dells;
He drank from yet untasted wells;
He stooped and looked in Mirrormere,
And saw a crown of stars appear,
As gems upon a silver thread,
Above the shadows of his head.

The world was fair, the mountains tall,
In Elder Days before the fall
Of mighty kings in Nargothrond
And Gondolin, who now beyond
The Western Seas have passed away:
The world was fair in Durin's Day.

A king he was on carven throne
In many-pillared halls of stone
With golden roof and silver floor,
And runes of power upon the door.
The light of sun and star and moon
In shining lamps of crystal hewn
Undimmed by cloud or shade of night
There shone for ever fair and bright.

There hammer on the anvil smote,
There chisel clove, and graver wrote;
There forged was blade, and bound was hilt;
The delver mined, the mason built.
There beryl, pearl, and opal pale,
And metal wrought like fishes' mail,
Buckler and corslet, axe and sword,
And shining spears were laid in hoard.

Unwearied then were Durin's folk;
Beneath the mountains music woke:
The harpers harped, the minstrels sang,
And at the gates the trumpets rang.

The world is grey, the mountains old,
The forge's fire is ashen-cold;
No harp is wrung, no hammer falls:
The darkness dwells in Durin's halls;
The shadow lies upon his tomb
In Moria, in Khazad-dûm.
But still the sunken stars appear
In dark and windless Mirrormere;
There lies his crown in water deep,
Till Durin wakes again from sleep.

>>52345170

Not only that, but also to have mastery over anything else that was created or begun with the power of someone using a Ring.

>>52345670

This is almost all correct. Except that the other 19 rings were all in the hands of Celebrimbor in Eregion at the time. The original plan was to use them to snare the remnants of the Noldor, especially the House of Feanor.

Except that Celebrimbor became aware of Sauron's Ring and its purpose and took it off immediately. If he'd even hesitated, Sauron could have mind controlled him to leave it on. The other Rings had either not been used, or used minimally by others in Eregion. There wasn't yet much to take power over at that point.

So as a backup plan, Sauron waged conventional war on Eregion instead. Either his power was sufficient in itself, or else the land had been protected by the power of one or more Rings and Celebrimbor was defeated. (One thing I like about the movie is that it's Frodo who thinks of the answer to the password to Moria. Celebrimbor created the door, and it's fitting that the Ringbearer is the one who sees through his devices.)

Anyway, of the 19 they had made, the Noldor had smuggled three of the best away prior to Sauron showing up. In the ruin of Eregion, Sauron recovered the other 16. He apparently made some changes to them (Gandalf and Elrond made a big deal of how Sauron hadn't "sullied" the Three, unlike the others) and then distributed the rest to Dwarves and Men. Presumably the Elves hadn't clearly warned them of the danger.

Dwarves being largely resistant to corruption of that kind, became more avaricious and greedy, but couldn't be completely controlled. Humans quickly succumbed.

But that was all a backup plan. Sauron's mistake was putting on his Ring immediately. If he'd been patient, waited a thousand years or more, let the rings be used and circulated, then putting on his Ring would have instantly handed him Middle Earth even if the Elves had taken them off.

>>52352651
It works better in Silmarillion.

When Tolkien died he had notes for a LOT more stories, many of which give a LOT of context to everything else like how Gandalf was basically an appointed angel in a way and a near equal to the Balrog.

Sadly a lot of it was scratched out, contradictory, and unfinished. With multiple different versions of some stories in varying degrees of completion and no indication which were rejected drafts. Also a lot only contained in letters to his friends because he talked about it a lot to everyone.

Before he died he told his son Christopher that Middle Earth was his to do with as he wanted. So Christopher first sorted out the myriad myths and made one textbook for Middle Earth centering around its genesis and the Silmarils themselves which were an idea in a lot of Tolkien's notes.

But in Beren and Luthien, one of the most important stories in the setting not only to the universe but to Tolkien himself (Tolkien is Beren and his wife is Luthien) there's a fucking werewolf and a prophesy which are mentioned but have no payoff.

Christopher actually finally finished Beren and Luthien recently. Its a whole new Tolkien book coming out next month.

>>52352830
Fuck I love these.

To the anon first getting into Tolkien books, because songs and poems is part of a lot of historical records, especially viking and Saxon, Tolkien used a lot of song too. In Middle Earth genesis god created the universe with a song sung by a choir of his angels as he conducts them, song is fate and the essence of god, and everyone just loves music. Elves give anyone food and shelter in the hall of a lord for a song and the news.

File: IMG_5423.jpg (71KB, 640x908px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 640x908px

>>52352870
Gotta love that door.

>>52352870
Also the Dwarves are death-prone, so the seven rings became useless as they fell into the deep chasms of the workd or ended up swallowed by dragons.

>>52352896
There's really a new book coming out?

>>52352896
>Christopher actually finally finished Beren and Luthien recently. Its a whole new Tolkien book coming out next month
>screech autistically at people adapting his dads work
>proceed to make up new fucking books out of shit his dad wrote while he was on the can

classic chris

>>52348809

An interesting point from the Ford of Bruinan. Frodo cries in desperation, "go back to Mordor!" And they reply, "come back! To Mordor we shall take you!" They twist the command to Sauron's benefit, but never actually contradict Frodo.

Galadriel hints at this. Frodo can't use the Ring because he hasn't tried, at least not to use it that way. A more powerful and ruthless mind might have made it harder and harder for the Ringwraiths to weasel out from under the commands of the One Ring's wearer. Whereas with a weak Bearer, the Nazgul could find loopholes and escape clauses enough to easily resist commands.

>>52353032
Beren and Luthien https://www.amazon.com/dp/0008214190/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_RrD1ybXQ5F5KZ

>>52353038
To be fair he mostly disliked how the action got ridiculous as the movies went on.

>>52353078
it was ironically this same weakness that allowed him to escape Saurons notice as long as he didn't put it on and gave him resistance to it's power in the first place

>>52353081
true, it's not like The Hobbit movies weren't complete ass

DID SOMEBODY SAY BEREN AND/OR LUTHIEN?

https://youtu.be/eMfF5fjC-LY

>>52353155
He was getting irritated by Towers though. I think the shield surfing may have gotten under his skin.

>>52348954

Since the Quest was fated by Eru Iluvatar, I think any attempt to do this would either fail or not be possible to attempt.

Basically the in-story logic is that Eru scripted everything and so plot logic is a feature of the setting. In a way, magic in Middle Earth works that way, too. Kind of like the Impulse Points system in GURPS: coincidences and twists of fate rather than visible magical effects.

>>52353155
To be honest I didn't even mind most of the stuff in the hobbit movies like troll catapults, those giant worm things or even Legolas being in there and levitating on falling bricks. The romance however that they were building with Kili and the she-elf was just forced and not pleasant. Combined with how they killed Fili and Kili in rather cliche ways that diverge from the original just makes it feel the movies were spitting on everything important in the book.

>>52349089

I'd argue that the One Ring was also Lord Acton's warning made physical. The whole story is an allegory about intrusive government, among other things.

>>52353258
I think the only redeeming thing in the third movie is the pig cavalry and the final song.

>>52349136

Someday, when it's actually legal for you to use this site, you'll discover that there's a vast world of allusions and larger philosophical meanings to many of the stories your teachers make you read.

In another era, you would already be steeped in the classics of Israel, Greece, Rome, and Medieval Europe. In a better era, you'd add the best of Indian, Chinese, and Persian literature as well. There's a whole world of ideas that you don't even know exists.

A good survey work like Will Durant's books or John Randall's The Making of the Modern Mind used to be required reading to open you up to what's out there. That stuff like that makes you look at Tolkien with fresh eyes is the least of the benefits you'd see from reading it.

I'm pretty sure only someone like a mage could really harness it's power, and only Sauron ultimately could use it properly.

>>52345118
Sauron put a lot of his essence and spiritual power into the ring in order to make it a conduit of his will that could spread to the other rings.

Side affect being that a lot of his power was now a portable physical thing.

Problem is only people with their own spiritual/magical power like the wizards or powerful elves could make use of it in that way.

>>52345118
It was a evil magical/spiritual battery.

It would give any entity with the ability to cast magic greater power.

>>52350406

Sorry. I can't find the image at the moment, but it showed the big ol' black as 6'1 and the human as 5'11 and you get it

>>52353178
I imagine the presence of the elves at Helms Deep would have done that first.

>>52353258

Don't forget how Thranduil frowns upon a silvan elf making sweet on his son, when it's implied to a reasonable degree that his own unnamed wife is a Silvan.

>>52349624

You're quoting the movie, so it loses a little. But the Ring was imbued with Sauron's power, which was flavored with the character traits that went with it.

When the Ring was unmade, everything Sauron ever accomplished or started with its power was ended as well. Which since he'd worn and used his Ring for so long meant nearly everything. What was left was a naked formless very nearly powerless spirit of disembodied malice. It could watch and envy and lust and hate.... but not actually do anything or reembody or even possibly speak.

File: 1488540201042.jpg (179KB, 980x650px) Image search: [Google]

179KB, 980x650px

>>52353569
>You'll discover that there's a vast world of allusions and larger philosophical meanings to many of the stories your teachers make you read
You seem to have taken a facetious remark entirely too literally.
>There's a whole world of ideas that you don't even know exists.
Engaging in this sort of hyperbolic mockery makes you seem breathless and self satisfied for no reason.
>used to be required reading
This seems to be a non-sequitur. What requirement are you referring to, besides one that exists in your head, which seems to be firmly up your ass?
See this >>52349759 pretty prominent quotation from Tolkien as to why the post you responded to got a facetious response

t.tar-miaron's shitposting specter

>>52350190

There's a collected book of Tolkien writings called Morgoth's Ring. He argued that Morgoth's equivalent to the One Ring itself is Middle Earth as a whole.

>>52345118
Straight from Tolkien:

>The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of decay
>They also enhanced the natural powers of the possessor - thus approaching 'magic,' a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination.
>The rings also let one glimpse into the minds of the other ring bearers

Wow, I really expected more from /tg/ but fuck me this thread is full of morons.

First off its not invisibility its planar shifting, thats why the wraiths pinpoint the users location. Second its a (and I hate using this) horcrux of sorts for EvilMcBadguy. Because its bound to his soul he has subtle but increasing influence over the wearer. Its also bound to the other rings so they all have lesser versions of the soulbound bit. And a side effect of the rings influence is extending life beyond natural limits. Everything else is an unintentional side effect of saurons overpowering will. Also the reason he was so fuck off powerful while wearing it is that he was fuck off powerful anyhow, the ring just gave him something to channel that power through slightly more effectively. Its real purpose was to put all the other races on a leash and give him influence over them .

Does anyone have any art of a black gollum at all? He was described as black many times in the book

>>52353791
So to destroy Melkor completely you need to destroy middle earth?

>>52353872
well.. Melkor will die at the end of the world, right?

>>52352167

When you get to high school you may be able to handle it. I'd wait.

>>52353872
Just give Gollum an afro and big lips and have him say "Where all the white hobbits at?"

>>52353916
Sink middle earth a la Numenor. The undying lands would be fine.

>>52353641

In GURPS terms, he took a lot of his advantages and gave them the limitation: gizmo, can be stolen. Then reinvested the points into even more power.

So when Frodo destroyed the Ring, anything with that limitation or that was bought with the points he'd gained from that limitation was lost. It left him with basically nothing.

>>52352870
The three are unsullied not because Sauron didn't get to change them later, but because the other rings were made by Celebrimbor and Sauron, whereas Celebrimbor made the three on his own.

>>52345227
No

>>52353209
This is true and untrue.

Eru didn't script everything on his own, he let the Ainur take part, yet it's true it's scripted. But one of his VERY few gifts to his lesser and worthless children, the humans, is to make changes to that plan. They aren't bound absolutely by destiny, they can defy and alter it, and make their own way in the world. The quest did not have to take place at all, if Frodo had really wanted to, he could have walked into Mordor and joined Sauron's forces. Free will is very much a thing for Men.

>>52352830
That is the truly great thing about Tolkien.

His entire universe sings.

>>52349923
Funny then that he defied Eru by departing from Middle Earth and abandoning the newly awakened race of Men, refusing to teach them anything or help them at all, unlike the Elves.

>>52353855
>ackshually it's not invisibility it's planar shifting

everybody knows this nerd, but it still makes you "invisible" because you're still partly in the material world, you can't use the ring to phase through shit. so for all intents and purposes it's invisibility.

>>52345118
a professional autist made a video explaining this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKU0qDpu3AM

>>52352830
I like how when Frodo gets to Mirrormere and looks in, the text never tells us what he sees. We don't know if Durin's story is true, or even whether the pool shows a crown for everyone or different things for others even if true.

>>52352896
Personally I'm worried of a Brian Herbert situation.

>>52353735
>Perve on Galadriel.
>Lack the will to dominate her.
Truly hell.

>>52354837

Iiiii thought that he saw stars reflected around where his head was? Did I imagine this?

>>52355068

Next time someone asks you to describe suffering ^^^

This is a good thread.

No sarcasm.

>>52355318
You imagined it.

>>52355319

You're a good anon.

No sarcasm.

File: Iwonderwho'sbehindthispost.png (178KB, 1045x869px) Image search: [Google]

178KB, 1045x869px

>>52355068
There's a note somewhere in the appendices saying surviving orcs are retained to invent many of the horrible things in the modern world, notably barbed wire. Sauron's influence lasts into the modern age, so remember that pic related is a real possibility, because what else would a disembodied spirit of malice and squandered genius do but shitpost.

>>52354195
t. Sauron

>>52351978
Book 1 of fellowship was the most enjoyable of the 6 though.

Although, I'm only most of the way through Book 5, and haven't actually read Book 6 yet, so that might change my mind.

>>52355830
t. human

Ulmo is the only good Valar. All the rest abandoned humans and only like elves.

What would happen if Shelob had gotten the ring?

>>52357656

Look up the last boss fight of Jak3

>>52357656
We don't know if she can drink from power like her mother Ungoliant. Shelob was a physical being, an actual spider, Ungoliant was an eldritch shadow monster which was merely shaped like a spider.. She in all likelihood would be drawn to Sauron and overpowered by its influence like anyone else that wasn't an Ainur.

>>52357936
I don't know, I think Shelob might hole up in her mountain with the power of the ring, much like Gollum did. It plays to the ambition and desires of whoever had it, and in Shelob's case that was to lurk in the depths and lure life in to consume them.

The ring would have trouble manipulating her to do anything other than hide in her mountain and maybe use the ring's power to impose her will to bring her prey into her lair.

>>52357980
The problem is that Gollum operated at a time when Sauron was weak in influence and thought his ring lost. Shelob would have obtained it when Sauron's shadow was spreading, and when he knew some fucking hobbits had his ring and was actively expending effort to draw it back to him.

>>52353737
Thesaurus bores us.

>>52345227
They always have been. The thing about them has always been that they take every possible precaution against corruption, and therefore none of them has ever fallen.

This used to be a badge of pride, before the new wave of "everything is immune to Chaos" that's been going on since some time pre-5th edition.

>>52358034

Ok I'll translate.

That guy Tolkien wrote stuff what say stuff all sneaky-like. You got to read lots of old grown-up books to crack the code. Some books write about other books and tell you what happened long ago.

Them big-word folk use them big words but I know whats said. You lot on the little school bus are lucky to have me.

>>52358706
As someone who's probably forgotten more medieval literature than you've read, translated Louis the Pious' capitularies from the Latin texts for his BA dissertation and grew up reading Cato and Pliny, I can tell you that you're a pretentious shit and to stop being condescending to others over an interesting exercise in replicating early medieval epics in a hobbyist manner that I read when I was six.

>>52352830
https://youtube.com/watch?v=pISzxdEgDCU

>>52345148
Thats a helm Fafnir, we've been over this

File: 1336392605680.jpg (11KB, 244x299px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 244x299px

>>52349011
>>52349023
holy shit

>>52345118
Here you go, anon:
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/One_Ring#Effects_of_the_One_Ring

>>52345118
It enhances your powers to superhuman degrees.

So like, the hobbits have a "power" that nobody notices them. Seriously, in many scenes, the ringwraiths just can't find them even when they are like 5 meters away. So the ring makes them turn fully invisible.

Elves and wizards would be given incredible magic power because these are things they already have.

File: tumblr_mne0dg9vL11rvb9sdo1_500.jpg (148KB, 500x492px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 500x492px

>>52349198

>>52361945
Which is why Isildur, a Numenorean Human, got the invisibility power too!

Also, putting the ring on makes Frodo MORE visible to the ringwriaths, not less.

>>52362037
>Which is why Isildur, a Numenorean Human, got the invisibility power too!
This is a non-canon film interpretation, unless I'm mistaken.
>Also, putting the ring on makes Frodo MORE visible to the ringwriaths, not less.
That's because they're supernatural and attuned to it.

>>52362006
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRVIVJjuaHE

>>52352830
FUCK!
They butchered this in the German translation.

>>52349011
>>52349023
That's an awesome text, and you had to spoil it with frogs

>>52345118
The ring of autism was only one of several others lost by the third age, including the ring of chronic depression, the ring of high functioning mental retardation, the ring of schizophrenia and the ring of borderline personality disorder.

>>52362064
>This is a non-canon film interpretation, unless I'm mistaken.

No, it is quite canon, and found both in the Fellowship and in Unfinished Tales extremely explicitly.

>That's because they're supernatural and attuned to it.

And because they're superantural, and attuned to it, the ring doesn't actually hide you from them, which doesn't make sense anyway because Frodo is always accompanied by other hobbits that the ringwraiths in fact miss. The reason the Ringwraiths miss them is because they're fucking literally blind, and that makes it hard for them to find things, and they mostly rely on their horses to do the seeing for them.

>>52345282
Don't forget the imperial guard auxiliary in the bane blade exalting in the fact that these orks don't use guns

>>52362356
...wut?

>>52362119
this is as obnoxious as it ought to be

>>52345118
Read the books, nigga.

>>52345227
Even if they are corrupted, the wards carved into their bones would kill them

>>52349348
>implying Sam's aura of power was false in any way

>>52371700
Potato power.

Did Tolkien ever say now the Americas factored into the geography of the world? The obvious meme is the undying lands, but they were outright severed from the sphere of the world after a point.

>>52371729
There were "new lands" created after the rounding of the world, but nobody gave enough of a shit to go explore them.

>>52371793
Entirely new lands were created then? Doesn't make sense if the continents were hard work and created by the Valar early on when their power was strong, and when Valinor is severed they are extremely weakened and incapable of these feats. Plus there's nothing to gain from creating new lands.

File: Nazgul_Fell-Beast_3.jpg (85KB, 800x452px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 800x452px

>>52345524
'Sup.

>>52349089
>>The Silmarils
>Eden, the literal light of a dark world, something 'perfect' lost to the infighting of the elves. Seeking the treelight is akin to seeking their old perfection, a meaningless task knowing that they already blemished their ideals.
The elves managed to get one of the Silmarils back for a while though. What does that symbolize?

>>52372509
One of those life changing drug trips?

File: A feel good RIECH.jpg (1MB, 780x5942px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 780x5942px

>>52372509
> The third Reich

There was a story that I read once that suggested part of Sauron's yearning to reclaim the Ring was because it had had the "my precious" affect on *him* as well once he'd made it.

And that once it'd been destroyed, whatever wisp of his spirit remained could start to heal. Maybe even return, eventually, to what he was before he fell in with Morgoth.

Reckon this is at all feasible within what we know?

File: Chen struggles not to slap your shit.jpg (261KB, 1035x1027px) Image search: [Google]

261KB, 1035x1027px

>>52345661

>using an oglaf comic with a complete faggot's watermark overtop the author's

You sir, are a scoundrel and a plebeian, unworthy to share this Nigerian basketweaving forum with the rest of us.

>>52352651
Yeap. As I recall, The Hobbit is meant to be Bilbo's story, then LOTR is Frodo and Sam's story that they wrote, and the Silmarillion is supposed to be a collection of Elvish legends that Bilbo wrote up during his stay in Rivendell.

That all got put into the Red Book of Westmarch, and that in turn eventually found its way into the hands of Aelfwine the Sailor (however that's spelt, Old English was never my thing), an Anglo-Saxon who accidentally found the island of Tol Eressa (again, spelling) and was given the book by the elf ghosts that remained there. He translated it into Old English.

After *that* it was discovered in an archaeological dig and brought to a man who was one of the foremost experts in Old English at the time.

One Professor John Ronald Reuel Tolkien.

>>52362006

that's funny, but not even remotely true in any way

the consensus of the other characters is that he would be unable to stand up to assualt by Sauron if Sauron recovered the Ring

>>52352830
https://youtu.be/48reRkVI-UE

File: OCiq2s0b2I76g.gif (992KB, 500x250px) Image search: [Google]

992KB, 500x250px

>>52345661
>that watermark

>>52352896
>Its a whole new Tolkien book coming out next month.
You're kidding?!

>>52353159
That's Christopher Lee, isn't it?

>>52362245
What's wrong with frogs, friend?

>>52345524
>Eagle allegiance
>Literally most prideful assholes sent to deliver the One Ring of all temptation filled artifacts
>Eye of Sauron still active
>Ringwraiths can fly with Fell Beasts

>>52372509
I'd call it 'hope.' The trees may be lost, the other precious gems may be gone, but one glimmering chance for Arda remains.

>>52372509
the ability and fate of numenorean neck muscles to eternally bear the weight of venus

>>52345524
>get on the eagles
>start flying to morder
>sauron, sees this from faaaar away
>sends the nazgul on fell-beasts to stop/kill them
>everything is fucked because of those goddamm eagles

>>52372735
Gandalf says he is not sure if Tom could resist Sauron unless he drew such strength from within the earth, but that it wouldn't be worth trying anyway, Tom would lose the ring. Tom is only powerful within the borders of his lands. Granted, he is the one who decides where those borders are, but he is simply uninterested in such things as the Ring.

Enchances the user already existing strengths. (Why hobbits who go past unseen, become literally unseen when waering the ring. Like how Samm Merry and Pippin observed the white council and nobody noticed.)
A Human/Elf wearing the ring would become better than hitler at speeches.
Give you the charisma of James Bond.
The strategic mastermind of Alexander the Great/insert historic uber general.
If you were already good looking, you would appear as god.
Etc etc, until you become a mindless vessel delivering the ring to sauron
If you're will is strong enough, you'd just eventually "become" Sauron himself.

Power in Tolkienverse isn't about creating big fireballs or magic missile.
It's about 'might' and willpower, and in the end holiness/ordained hierarchy.
Actual specific spells take time and are pretty pointless beyond cooking food. Better to just do like Doctor Manhattan and split your opponents in a couple of pieces.

Very similar to the force in star wars, weak minds and all that.

>>52345661
Fuck off with that watermark.

>>52375864
>Enchances the user already existing strengths.

NO! WRONG! STUPID! Humans turn invisible with the ring you idiotic fucks.

https://toleratedindividuality.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/unfinished-tales-the-lost-lore-of-middle-earth.pdf

Page 198

>Isildur turned west, and drawing up the Ring that hung in a wallet from a fine chain about his neck, he set it upon his finger with a cry of pain, and was never seen again by any eye upon Middle-Earth.


>Like how Samm Merry and Pippin observed the white council and nobody noticed.)

It was only Sam, Merry and Pippin weren't present.

People who post LoTR 'lore' from only having seen the movie should be shot.

>>52375864
>Enchances the user already existing strengths.
Stop this fucking meme

>>52375864
>Enchances the user already existing strengths.
utter retard. and now half of the board believes it

>>52345118
The better question is: why forge it at all? You're putting your immortality on the line for a chance to mind control, if everything goes perfectly according to plan, nineteen people. I don't care how super special they are, no elf is going to listen to the king when he's invisible, wearing a black cloak, and hissing "worship Sauron" in a low voice.

>>52376152
>You're putting your immortality on the line for a chance to mind control, if everything goes perfectly according to plan, nineteen people. I

His 'immortality' is limited; remember, by the time of LoTR, Sauron has 'died' twice, and Word of God is that someone sufficiently powerful, like Gandalf, could use the Ring against him to accomplish much the same effect as destroying it, at least for Sauron's living or 'dying' point of view.

You're looking at it backwards; the Ring isn't some lich's phylactery that makes him immortal as long as it's around and if destroyed messes him up. The Ring is all that's holding him together at this point.

>>52355920
You mean Ossë?
Ulmo just sits 10000 meters in the deep doing nothing.
Ossë still saves sailors and says sorry like GP after getting a hissy fit creating storms.

>>52376211
>Ossë

Not him, but Ossë is a maiar, not a valar.

>>52376152
Gods/Spirits/Ainur
Have a mana pool.
A HYUGE mana pool.
But it doesn't replenish, or at least, it takes thousands of years for you to regain used energy/power.
So you create a ring, that gives you infinite mana.

This why Melkor was planet buster/galactus in power level as the start of time.
But weaker than Sauron with ring in end of First Age.

>>52376200
Yeah, and the point is he was still trucking along fine without it, and before he had it. Keeping the power in yourself is much safer than handing it out like candy. I thought Sauron would have learned from his boss.

>>52376211
Point was about abandonment.
Ulmo stopped doing shit after first age.
Basically the same as rest of the Vala.
Only Ossë (In the highest/strongest order of Ainur after the Vala, alike Sauron, possibly the strongest maia even rivaling the Valar) Kept interacting with the world.

>>52376292
>>52376220
ffs

>>52376252
>Yeah, and the point is he was still trucking along fine without it,

Not really. He was exiled to the ends of the earth and pretty impotent next to things like the Numenoreans out there.

>and before he had it. Keeping the power in yourself is much safer than handing it out like candy.

What on earth makes you say that? There's a pretty good chance that if he hadn't made the Ring, he'd be dead and gone by the end of the War of the Last Alliance; that's what everyone thought in any case, at least until Gandalf discovered the Necromancer was Sauron, some several thousands of years later.

>>52375864
>>Enchances the user already existing strengths.

How many times does it need to be explained to you that you are wrong, you fucking mouthbreather?

The Ring may tailor it's "sales pitch" to an individual much like how Galadriel sees herself as an beautiful universally loved queen, Boromir sees military victories and the survival of Mins Tirith, and Sam is tempted by visions of being a Gardener-God-King. The powers the Ring bestows, however, are all the same regardless of the individual because Sauron poured much of himself into the Ring.

Do you understand now, you stupid cocksucker? Will you remember all this the next time this topic arises and not post you interminable idiocy?

>>Like how Samm Merry and Pippin observed the white council and nobody noticed.

Repeat after me, fuckslop: THE MOVIES ARE WRONG. Understand? Jackson changed many things so it would easier for low IQ shitstains like you to follow the plot. He would have put in more boobs and explosion too if he were able.

The. Movies. Are. Wrong. Stop citing them.

>>52376689
>movies are wrong

Actually it is all fiction, so anything can be anything

>>52376759
Nonetheless, the "enhances the powers, so stealthy hobbits become invisible" is utter bullshit and is not even supported by the movie itself - we see Isildur becoming invisible.

Is just a wrong assumption some retard wrote here that became a meme. Is stupid from any standpoint.

>>52376759
>Actually

Keep tipping that fedora, asshole.

the #1 power of the ring, as near as I can tell, is if you put it on, you let all the most powerful undead in the world know where you are.

>>52376689
>>52376866
You didn't read the books?
Merry sam and pippin were eavesdropping in the book too.

The one ring had the ability of all the other 19 rings, aka combined the normal powers of an Ainur, the scale depending of the wearer. But you need incredible Willpower to wield it. Legolas hinted that Aragorn would been able to, having elf and Ainur "blood" in him.

It all depends on the wearer what the ring can do, thereby, the expression: It enchances what the wearer already can do. It can't give you anything you don't already have. Except "command" of all other ringbearers and potential "mind conrtol".
Gandalf's true form, is of a energy based entity with small scale matter and energy manipulation. Like all Ainur. He would become another melkor with the ring.

Maybe YOU should read some more.

>>52377341
To add: The ring would not make any wearer invisible. Tom Bomby wasn't. Sauron wasn't. Gandalf probably wouldn't be. Elves wouldn't be.
I believe Isildur only became invisible cause he wished to be, or rather; he wanted to hide and escape.

>T. Autist who religiously read everything Tolkien as a young teen.

>>52377341
>Merry sam and pippin were eavesdropping in the book too.

On Frodo in the Shire. They were not present at the Council of Elrond, let alone the White Council, which of course, had no confirmed meetings before the hobbits in question were born, you fucking retard.

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/White_Council

>The one ring had the ability of all the other 19 rings, aka combined the normal powers of an Ainur,

[citation seriously fucking needed] There is no indication that any of the Rings could say, allow the users to shape matter and build mountains and shit, which were "normal powers of an Ainur". There is no indication that an "ordinary" Ainur had the power to command the wearers of the Rings of Power specifically.

>Legolas hinted that Aragorn would been able to, having elf and Ainur "blood" in him.

No he fucking didn't. He said that Aragorn was a great captain of men and had enormous willpower, in regards to the Palantir; none of it was related to having elf and ainur blood, just his innate strength, which is why he doesn't make similar comments about Imrahil, who has a greater "share" of Elven blood but is not quite as powerful.

>It enchances what the wearer already can do.
LIKE LEARNING TO SPEAK ORCISH!

https://www.docdroid.net/NX2Di3F/j-r-r-tolkien-lord-of-the-rings-02-the-two-towers-retail-pdf.pdf.html#page=440

>>52377438


>>52377438

https://toleratedindividuality.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/unfinished-tales-the-lost-lore-of-middle-earth.pdf

Page 198 of the PDF. Read it you fucktard. Elendur was well aware that his dad putting the Ring on would turn him invisible, as well as it having the power to cow or command the Orcs, if not for Isildur bieng insufficiently strong or practiced to use it such. It has nothing to do with him wanting to "hide and escape". This is of course, not a power limited to the One Ring. ALL of the Great Rings can turn you invisible.

http://www.angelfire.com/rings/theroaddownloads/fotr.pdf

Page 33 of the PDF

>A mortal, Frodo, who keeps one of the Great Rings, does not die, but he does not grow or obtain more life, he merely continues, until at last every minute is a weariness. And if he often uses the Ring to make himself invisible, he_ fades:_ he becomes in the end invisible permanently, and walks in the twilight under the eye of the dark power that rules the Rings.
You have clearly not read the books in any great depth. Please kill yourself.

>>52377341
I think it was only Sam who was spying on the council in the book. I remember Merry and Pippin being mildly pissed he didn't invite them along.

>>52359003

I'll take a wild swing and say this guy got his associate's in sports medicine.

>>52362037

In the millennia since the Gladden Fields, it was forgotten that the Lords of Andunie, of whom elendil and his sons were descended, were also hobbits.

>>52377438
>>T. Autist who religiously read everything Tolkien as a young teen.

Seeing as >>52377614 already pushed you shit in, I'll just repeat his suggestions that you kill yourself.

>>52377604
In my book white council and council of elrond is used interchangeably, during the feast, if I remember, someone asks why saruman is not there when he's the head of the white council. etc.

>The one ring had the ability of all the other 19 rings, aka combined the normal powers of an Ainur
Wearing the ring shifts you into wraith world (unless you know your shit) while there you have to "will your dominance" over it, if you succeed in "wielding" the ring you gain Sauron's abilities/"abilities of an Ainur, though to a much smaller degree, this too is depending on the might of your will. The ring would always eventual win, and you would "become" Sauron IN ESSENCE, there would be no difference between you.
I don't know what all the 19 rings power's were, but they can't be something sauron was not.
Preservation seem to be something they all have.

I never said that Legolas said he had ainur end elf blood in him, that was refering to how he would be able to wield all of the rings abilities. Tolkien was very keen on bloodlines or "the power of lineage/heritage." Aragorn isn't this cause of Aragorn, but cause of his genes. etc.

>It enchances what the wearer already can do.
It's not literally.
It's an expression.
The ring is all based on Willpower/might.
You can only willingly use the abilities of the ring if you know they are there, or if you "wish upon them".

Sure, you're right, I missed the part about unexplained perception/understanding of things from nowhere.
Like Frodo "solving" the dwarven riddle, it was probably the ring.
And all that stuff, understanding black speech.

My point is, the ring enchants you with promises of becoming the best at the thing you like doing the most. But it also actually does make you the best at that thing, cause it literally has the essence of a minor God.

>>52372509

The purity and perfection of love. Been only sought the Jewels for the love of Luthien. She only sought them for the love of Beren. They might have set the Quest aside and still had one another, but Beren's given word and his desire not to separate her from her mother and father meant that he had to see the thing through to its conclusion. Neither were Noldor, darkened with the curse of Mandos. In the end, both were forever sundered from their kind (Beren never dwelt among mortal men again, and Luthien of course abided the doom of men.)

They obviously lived the rest of their lives in marital bliss, illuminated by the silmaril. But their time together was short, and everyone else who bore the jewel in mortal lands suffered and died for it. Including their son Dior.

It's a "love is our window to the Divine" plot.

>>52377614
It only turns you invisible if you don't have the will/power/might to not be invisible, clearly shown by Tom bombydomp and Sauron.
Sure Isildur was a weak bitch, maybe he's always invisible wearing the ring. But it's not a de facto state.
Sam even "casts an illusion" while being invisible, so he technically became semi-visible while wearing it.

>>52372599

Yes but it fits better in a Dagor Dagorlad scenario.

I'd say that it's more likely that the next manifestation of the Shadow would be a reembodied Saruman.

It seems crazy given how low he fell, but Sauron was pretty pathetic in the first age as well. I feel like to Tolkien, Sauron, Saruman, and Gollum were all nearly the same kind of character, differing only in their levels of power. At his height, Saruman was similar to the Dark Lord. Then a few weeks later, stripped of his power and minions, he's as pathetic as Gollum. Give Saruman his powers back and he's still pathetic deep down but once again seems like Sauron. You know, the guy who forbids his slaves to use his name, and who called himself King Excellent.

Tolkien would have gone further with that if Kim I'm Sung's descendents had been around to illustrate this. Or Idi Amin. Go see Last King of Scotland to see what I mean.

>>52375864
>A Human/Elf wearing the ring would become better than hitler at speeches.

You're worse than Hitler at getting shit wrong.

And don't you ever fucking call it the Tolkienverse again you sorry sack of shit.

>>52377728
>>52377614
Letter 131.

The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of decay (i.e. 'change' viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance – this is more or less an Elvish motive. But also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor – thus approaching 'magic', a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination. And finally they had other powers, more directly derived from Sauron ('the Necromancer': so he is called as he casts a fleeting shadow and presage on the pages of The Hobbit): such as rendering invisible the material body, and making things of the invisible world visible.

The Elves of Eregion made Three supremely beautiful and powerful rings, almost solely of their own imagination, and directed to the preservation of beauty: they did not confer invisibility. But secretly in the subterranean Fire, in his own Black Land, Sauron made One Ring, the Ruling Ring that contained the powers of all the others, and controlled them, so that its wearer could see the thoughts of all those that used the lesser rings, could govern all that they did, and in the end could utterly enslave them. He reckoned, however, without the wisdom and subtle perceptions of the Elves. The moment he assumed the One, they were aware of it, and of his secret purpose, and were afraid. They hid the Three Rings, so that not even Sauron ever discovered where they were and they remained unsullied. The others they tried to destroy."

You're the who should kill yourself my friend

>>52377922
>In my book white council and council of elrond is used interchangeably,

No they aren't.

>someone asks why saruman is not there when he's the head of the white council. etc.

Are you retarded?

>Big security meeting at the White House,
>Hey, why isn't General so and so here? He's the head of the army, shouldn't we hear from him?
>THE PRESIDENCY IS THE ARMY! THE WHITE HOUSE IS THE PENTAGON!

Their wondering where Saruman was was BECAUSE he was important in previous councils, not that the Council of Elrond and the White Council were interchangeable.


>Wearing the ring shifts you into wraith world (unless you know your shit) while there you have to "will your dominance" over it, if you succeed in "wielding" the ring you gain Sauron's abilities/"abilities of an Ainur,

No, you gain the ability to exert control over lesser wills, to read minds, which by the way, is not restricted to Ainur (You can see Denethor doing it to Pippin, without any rings), and doesn't touch on the powers that are uniquely Ainur, like shaping the world. Does it enhance your power generally? Of course, but nobody was disputing that.

>I never said that Legolas said he had ainur end elf blood in him, that was refering to how he would be able to wield all of the rings abilities. Tolkien was very keen on bloodlines or "the power of lineage/heritage." Aragorn isn't this cause of Aragorn, but cause of his genes. etc.

You haven't actually cited to any of this; and you cast doubt on the "genetics" arguments from the Silmarillion, where most of the great heroes of Men aren't descended from anyone important.

1/2

>>52377922

>You can only willingly use the abilities of the ring if you know they are there, or if you "wish upon them".

Like putting a geas on Gollum! Or seeing really far, far beyond ordinary sight, on Amon Hen! Do you have any fucking clue what you're talking about?

>Like Frodo "solving" the dwarven riddle, it was probably the ring.

Fuck off, movietard. That wasn't in the books. Why do you pretend you've read them?

>My point is, the ring enchants you with promises of becoming the best at the thing you like doing the most.

And that, according to the word of God,
According to word of God https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/the_letters_of_j.rrtolkien.pdf


is an "essential deceit of the Ring". It's promises of power to you are explicitly not equal to what it actually does.

>>52378005


>>52378005

>It only turns you invisible if you don't have the will/power/might to not be invisible, clearly shown by Tom bombydomp and Sauron.

First off, 'proving' anything by citing to Bombadil is extremely difficult, because he's so weird and out of phase with the rest of the cosmology. Secondly, I can think of another important difference between someone like Sauron and someone like Isildur or Bilbo; he's an Ainur, a fea that builds a fanar to interact with the material world, wheras they, as men, or manlike things, don't have a "visible" fea. And if you don't have a fea for it to interact with on that level, it drags you into the "Unseen". That's why Frodo, when fading badly at Bruinen, sees Glorfindel as a shining figure of light; he was always like that, it's just that Frodo passed beyond the veil enough to see and think in those terms. An elf would almost certainly not turn invisible; and since the other Great Rings do seem to confer invisiblity, at least some of the time, and their keepers, Cirdan,, later Gandalf, Elrond, and Galadriel do NOT become invisible, it's far from clear it's a question of power or a question of 'biology'.

>Sam even "casts an illusion" while being invisible, so he technically became semi-visible while wearing it.

If you're talking about the raid on Cirith Ungol, he's not wearing it.

>>52378181
Except that doesn't support you at all.

Remember how you said, and I'll quote you, from post>>52375864

>Enchances the user already existing strengths. (Why hobbits who go past unseen, become literally unseen when waering the ring. Like how Samm Merry and Pippin observed the white council and nobody noticed.)
>A Human/Elf wearing the ring would become better than hitler at speeches.

And how, it turns out, that no, it is not in fucking fact part of the Ring's enhancing of natural Hobbit stealth that causes the invisibility, but rather how it interacts with the interface of the fea and hroa that confers invisibility.

>>52378207
>>52378223

>>52378181
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Letter_131

>>52376152

In game terms, he was running out of character points and so invested those that remained to him in Minions whose power could be replenished.

It was a risk, but a manageable one that solved an even bigger problem for him, the fact that he was blowing his reserves of personal power.

If he'd been wise, he would have forced the Ring but then not put it on, thus not alerting Celebrimbor of the danger. The Noldor would have used the Rings for centuries not realizing that everything they touched with those Rings was going to eventually come under Sauron's power. THEN you put it on and take control retroactively.

Also, since the Noldor like Sauron existed in both the seen and unseen worlds simultaneously, I don't think it would have turned an elf who'd been in Valinor like Glorfindel invisible. I'm not even sure that guys like Glorfindel or Galadriel wouldn't have seen someone wearing the Ring, since they can perceive that realm.

>>52378282

Letter 131 refutes your stupid-ass argument. The ring's powers are in fact external, and things like invisibility can happen to everyone, it's not an enhancement of the "natural stealth" of the Hobbits, since Non-hobbits can use it to turn invisible. Its preservation and life-extension (if you're a mortal) happen to everyone, regardless of your individual species attitudes towards death. Letter 246 talks about how either Aragorn or Galadriel as ring-lord would use it to build an enormously powerful and loyal army, something irrespective of the different "natural strengths" of elves or men.

He even fucking separates out the two clauses of enhancing the natural powers of a possessor, and the invisibility, which is 'more directly derived from Sauron'.

You clearly haven't familiarized yourself with this stuff, as you've cited to scenes from the movies to support your 'canon' argument. You're an internet shithead who is grasping desperately at straws to support your argument. Go. Away.

>>52378270
My point as letter 131 also states "such as invisibility and making the invisible world visible."
Staying invisible is not a permanent state while wearing the ring.

>If you're talking about the raid on Cirith Ungol, he's not wearing it.
Yes, he does.

>>52378181

You simply must love taking it in the ass because every statement you've made has been shoved right up there.

Read >>52378207 and >>52378223 and >>52378270 and then GTFO.

>>52378345
>Staying invisible is not a permanent state while wearing the ring.

So? It's not an enhancement of natural hobbit stealth either.

>Yes, he does.

WRONG!

https://pkubbs.net/attach/boards/Muthos/M.1083045560.A/Lord%20of%20the%20Rings%20-%20The%20Return%20of%20The%20King.pdf

Page 95

> He took off the Ring, moved it may be by some deep premonition of danger, though to himself he thought only that he wished to see more clearly. `Better have a look at the worst,' he muttered. `No good blundering about in a fog!'

A few paragraphs later

> His thought turned to the Ring, but there was no comfort there, only dread and danger No sooner had he come in sight of Mount Doom, burning far away, than he was aware of a change in his burden. As it drew near the great furnaces where, in the deeps of time, it had been shaped and forged, the Ring's power grew, and it became more fell, untameable save by some mighty will. As Sam stood there, even though the Ring was not on him but hanging by its chain about his neck, he felt himself enlarged, as if he we
re robed in a huge distorted shadow of himself, a vast and ominous threat halted upon the walls of Mordor. He felt that he had from now on only two choices: to forbear the Ring, though it would torment him; or to claim it, and challenge the Power that sat in its dark hold beyond the valley of shadows.

He clearly has the ring, and he's clearly using some of its power to, for instance, get past the silent watchers, (and how he can't break past them on the way out until Frodo, who now has the ring, helps), but he is certainly not wearing it.

Why do you pretend that you've autistically read all this stuff when you can't even get the basics?

>>52378446
>It's not an enhancement of natural hobbit stealth either.
You don't know that. Sure the invisbility itself isn't, nothing is.
But Tolkien implies often how Hobbits pass unseen.
And he's said it "enchanches" you (Wish you denied at first.)
And it's established that invisibility is a given ability, usually the first you one you notice. But it's not permanent for all. But it is for hobbits, they seem to always be invisible.
The nazgul neither became invisible by the 9 rings immediately, it took damn long time.

>>52378446
Well it's almost 2 decades since I read the trilogy.
So I admit I might have gotten some of the in book stuff wrong/mixed up.
I enjoyed and enjoy the lore and history of the world more.

>>52378547
>You don't know that.

I actually do, since it fucking says that in letter 131, that you brought up.

>And finally they had other powers, more directly derived from Sauron ('the Necromancer': so he is called as he casts a fleeting shadow and presage on the pages of The Hobbit): such as rendering invisible the material body, and making things of the invisible world visible.

>And he's said it "enchanches" you (Wish you denied at first.)

No, I didn't. I said that the invisibility was not tied to that. I furthermore said that it was not giving you 'Ainuric' powers. >>52378207

>Does it enhance your power generally? Of course, but nobody was disputing that.

But I will retract something. I thought you just hadn't read Tolkien, now I think you have a reading problem in general.

>But it is for hobbits, they seem to always be invisible.

And I said why. You miss that part too? >>52378270

>And how, it turns out, that no, it is not in fucking fact part of the Ring's enhancing of natural Hobbit stealth that causes the invisibility, but rather how it interacts with the interface of the fea and hroa that confers invisibility.

>The nazgul neither became invisible by the 9 rings immediately, it took damn long time.

How do you know that, by the way? We know pretty much nothing of the nine before they became ringwraiths, or what powers they derived from their rings when still mortal men.

>>52377341
>>52377438

You should go back to translating Louis the Pious's capitularies.

There are three eavesdropping scenes in the books. First, Sam is caught listening in at the window as Gandalf and Frodo discuss finding the One Ring (he'd been eavesdropping other times on them the night before as well but wasn't caught). Then Sam pretends to be asleep but really is listening to Gildor and Frodo discussing the Black Riders. Then finally at the Council of Elrond, Sam listens to the whole thing before getting caught and sentenced to be Frodo's companion on the Quest. Merry and Pippin later complain because Sam gets "rewarded" for spying by getting to go with Frodo.

Merry relates a story where he spied on Bilbo, many years before. That's it. Otherwise, the four of them (Merry, Pippin, Sam, and Fredegar) all collaborate with one another but only Sam has done any eavesdropping.

Can you provide a quote with a page #? For ANY of this??? Having religiously read everything Tolkien as a teen, you shouldn't have a problem with citing a source, right?

Also, Gandalf's "true" form, like all maiar, is spiritual not energy-based. He's not a fucking Organian from Star Trek. He'd be another SAURON with the Ring, not another Morgoth.

>>52378634
Sauron is an ainur, his powers are ainur, the ring potentially gives you all of sauron's abilities on smaller scale.

>>52376689
So what is this?
It's clearly the opposite of.
"Of course, but nobody was disputing that."

>>52378654
Not him, but there's also Sam, wearing the Ring, eavesdropping on Shagrat and Gorbag as they've spotted Frodo. And I'm sure I'm missing another one, but it's tickling at the back of my head and I can't even think of a scene, let alone a cite.

That being said, Merry and Pippin were clearly not at the Council of Elrond.

http://www.angelfire.com/rings/theroaddownloads/fotr.pdf

Right at the start of The Ring Goes South (p 176)

>Later that day the hobbits held a meeting of their own in Bilbo's room. Merry and Pippin were indignant when they heard that Sam had crept into the Council, and had been chosen as Frodo's companion.

>>52378736
>Sauron is an ainur, his powers are ainur, the ring potentially gives you all of sauron's abilities on smaller scale.

No, it doesn't. Ainur, like Sauron, can deliberately shape the material of the world, raise or cast down mountains, change the seas, that kind of stuff. There is no indication whatsoever that the Ring can help you do this, even on a 'smaller scale'.

>>52378593
>Well it's almost 2 decades since I read the trilogy.

Nice backpedaling, faggot.

Next time remember how much you don't know and don't bother posting.

>>52378762
"the Ruling Ring that contained all the others' powers " answer to question you gave earlier.

Tolkien says all over the place how mightier wielders would eventually become sauron himself.
" 'No!' cried Gandalf, springing to his feet. 'With that power I should have power too great and terrible. And over me the Ring would gain a power still greater and more deadly.' His eyes flashed and his face was lit as by a fire within. 'Do not tempt me! For I do not wish to become like the Dark Lord himself."

>>52378827
I admitted how I was wrong in some regards. Unlike you, whom been wrong two and half times.
Unless I'm writing with more than one individual.

>>52378320

This. The Ainar had a limited total amount of power they could employ in the universe. It was vast, but once used didn't come back.

The Rings were a gamble to spend a lot of power up front creating a trinket that would enable Sauron to spend someone else's power instead from then on: those who wore the other great Rings. Best of all, Sauron still had the use of the power he'd spent creating the Ring so long as he was wearing it.

If Sauron had not created the One Ring, he would have had to have spent far more of his personal reserves of power to maintain his realm and fight his wars. He would have spent himself down to almost nothing long before.

>>52378906
>the Ruling Ring that contained all the others' powers


Yes, and none of the other Rings give non-Ainur 'Ainuric' powers either, or at least there's no evidence of such.

>Tolkien says all over the place how mightier wielders would eventually become sauron himself.
" 'No!' cried Gandalf, springing to his feet. 'With that power I should have power too great and terrible. And over me the Ring would gain a power still greater and more deadly.' His eyes flashed and his face was lit as by a fire within. 'Do not tempt me! For I do not wish to become like the Dark Lord himself."

First off, that doesn't mean that Gandalf would literally become Sauron, he would become LIKE the Dark Lord. Hell, letter 246 has

>Gandalf as Ring-Lord wold have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good' and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great)
>[ The draft ends here. in the margin Tolkien wrote: "Thus while Sauron multiplied [illegible word] evil, he left "good" clealry distinguishable from it. Gandalf would have made good detestable and seem evil.


Secondly, it bears no meaning on to the point of whether or not the rings grand 'Ainuric' power, because Gandalf is himself an Ainur, and an expansion of his own powers would be Ainur powers.

>>52378964
>Unless I'm writing with more than one individual.

Wait a minute. You don't even realize that this has been a multi-man beat down? That more the one person has been schooling you?

Fuck, you're stupider than I thought.

>>52378984
This is more philosophical and left to interpretation.

In my eyes The Ring, IS sauron, But like A deaf, blind, almost mute Sauron with barely any sense of touch and with great GPS technology. That when you put on the ring. A "Sauron Persona" festers and grows in your mind, until you become sauron, indistinguishable from him.

>Secondly, it bears no meaning on to the point of whether or not the rings grand 'Ainuric' power, because Gandalf is himself an Ainur, and an expansion of his own powers would be Ainur powers.
That's also my point. The power is there. But only an Ainur or Galadriel would be able o actually become a Sauron.
Everyone else just become better at what they do, Sam would eventual start enslaving people for his garden, but it would be the best garden ever.

>>52378739

Yeah I was talking about Sam spying on Frodo in various contexts. But quite right and good quote.

>>52378906
>'Do not tempt me! For I do not wish to become LIKE the Dark Lord himself."

Alas, that every like is not the same. :-)

Also, it's Ainu, plural Ainur. I've screwed this up in this thread myself, so I'm just being completist.

>>52378964

You're arguing with several people at once. Once you backed down, I stopped attacking you. We're all wrong from time to time; I suggest you re-read the Hobbit, LotR, and the Silmarillion. They're fantastic books and you'll see new things in them that you didn't see before.

>>52378984
>Hell, letter 246 has
>>Gandalf as Ring-Lord wold have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good' and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great)
>>[ The draft ends here. in the margin Tolkien wrote: "Thus while Sauron multiplied [illegible word] evil, he left "good" clealry distinguishable from it. Gandalf would have made good detestable and seem evil.

That's some pretty chilling shit right there.

>>52379111
>In my eyes The Ring, IS sauron,

Well, you're wrong. Letter 246, which has already been brought up IN THIS THREAD, talks about how if he had claimed it, Gandalf could use the Ring to destroy Sauron, or at least as much as destroying the ring would have done so. Gandalf would in turn be corrupted by the Ring, but Sauron, the individual entity, is broken forever, and a new dark lord is taking his place.

> A "Sauron Persona" festers and grows in your mind, until you become sauron, indistinguishable from him.

>Gandalf as Ring-Lord wold have been FAR WORSE than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous.

>That's also my point.
That is either not your point, or you're expressing yourself in such a confused manner that you're virtually incomprehensible. Ainur have a set of powers. The Ring does not give someone who does not have those powers the ability to shape mountains. It will enhance whatever powers of persuasion and magic and skill that they do have. The mere fact that the Ring was crafted by an Ainur does not impart 'Ainur' powers.

>But only an Ainur or Galadriel would be able o actually become a Sauron.

Actually, the letter draws a pretty large distinction between someone like Elrond, Galadriel, or Aragorn holding the Ring, and someone like Gandalf doing so.

>Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him- being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form.

(Skip)

>In any case, Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: They would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated.

>>52379111
>Everyone else just become better at what they do, Sam would eventual start enslaving people for his garden, but it would be the best garden ever.

I think you're mixing up two things here: the mystical powers of the Ring and the moral/philosophical consequences of having that much power of any kind.

Tolkien's points are two-fold. First, there's Lord Acton's beliefs. As a devout Catholic of similar views to Tolkien, it's clear that there was an influence of this general distrust of power and its corrupting effects on people. Second, there's the fact that power is about Control and Magnification of one's own powers and priorities. Sam gets a certain amount of space in the tale of the world, and with the Ring he can rewrite other people's lines to magnify his own place in the story, or simply crowd others out. (Leaf by Wiggle is a good parable for this.)

So Morgoth is the obvious prototype for this kind of thinking. Employed to help construct and decorate the world by Eru, Morgoth instead tries to make the whole thing a monument to himself-- rewriting it, twisting it, changing it, and finally just scribbling all over the thing and defiling it. It's all an exercise in writing his own name across the world in 60-mile high burning letters, obliterating anyone else's contribution to make room for more "ME!!!"

They all boil down to trying to change your own role in the tale to put it above where the ultimate Author of everything would have it; often vandalizing or minimizing others' roles to do it.

Now, what differs is the rationale you justify yourself with, and the particular nature of the monument to yourself you're trying to build. In Sam's case, that's being a great Gardener. The Ring won't make him a better gardener, it will give him power that he can use to expand his garden or enrich it or destroy things that stand in opposition to it.

>>52379208
The Ainu are very one dimensional. They do one thing and one thing only. Sauron was a OCD autist gay for melkor.
Gandalf only knows how to be just and wise. Giving sick advice.

Shame Tolkien didn't expand the lore of the universe instead of comming up with names that all sound the same for a thousand people.
We barely know anything about the stuff itself, who were the nazgul, what did all the 19 rings do?
Ring of Air?
Ring of Fire?
Ring of Water?

>>52379439
Well it's known that Elrond and Galadriel only could preserve their worlds through their two rings. Those ring lost their power after Sauron died. So if we look at what they did, and attribute that to The One. Then if you have the ring. You can control the weather. Sauron does this too without the ring. A mere half-elf like elrond can't be doing that. Must be his ring. Yes, True!
Cause it's always sunny and never dry in Rivendell.

>>52351985
Kek why? Where can I find more info about Tom Bombadil (the doll)?

>>52377922
>In my book white council and council of elrond is used interchangeably

this is the evidence you are just shitting headcanon. just go.

>>52379783

White Council

Organized by Galadriel, Lead by Saruman. Also consisted of Elrond, Gandalf, and Cirdan. Other members like Celeborn or Rhadagast are possible but never explicitly named. Their goal was opposing the growing Shadow, especially in its guise in Mirkwood. Existed for centuries, possibly longer. Most notable for driving out the Necromancer from Dol Goldur.

The Council of Elrond

A specific single meeting organized by Elrond and described in a chapter of Fellowship of the Ring. It included representatives of many of the significant races and kingdoms of the free peoples; although they were all notables who had come to visit Elrond on other businesses, he argued that they had been fated to arrive there so as to participate in the Council.

It was specifically organized to debate what to do about the One Ring, which Frodo Baggins had recently brought to Rivendell.

Of the members of the White Council who attended the Council of Elrond, there were only two: Elrond himself and Gandalf the Grey. Cirdan sent a representative; Galadriel and Saruman weren't represented at all. Many others who were not on the White Council were in attendance.


Those two councils are two totally separate things.

>>52379460
The Istari have more depth. Many, like Gandalf and Saruman, are tricky people, they just use tricks with different purposes. They have a different approaches, and all get fascinated by middle earth and mundane things like pipeweed, to the point that 4/5 get lost.

(but we are not sure the orcs ganked Radagast)

>>52380077
how does this goes against what I posted?

>>52380279

If you're the guy saying that they're interchangeable, then it goes against you by showing that they are not interchangeable.

If not, then it doesn't.

>>52380430
No, I am the guy that posted that thinking that is a travesty and he should get out.
But happy we agree.

>>52376152
Sauron has moments of cunning but he's is naturally stupidand foolish, just like like Satan or the Ahriman. The One Ring was a mistake.

>>52377723
WE

>>52378980
Then how did he come back after loosing the ring and having no one left to draw power from? He "died" and was weak, then popped back up stronger than that as the Necromancer and Lord of Mordor. He didn't seem to have any issues raising yet another bigass army of orcs and binding men of the South and East to his will.

That's the problem with Tolkein: he wanted to have it both ways. Evil is both inherently pathetic and life-stealing, while simultaneously being much more powerful than good. If Sauron could pop back up and resurrect Mordor after losing the Ring (plus whatever investments he made in Angmar) then he was powerful enough to never need it in the first place.

>>52381378
Evil is like The Void. Is characterised by the ABSENCE (of god). But this does not makes it weak. Is an association YOU made.

Is not even so strange in fiction. Think about the neverending story.

>>52376211
No. Read the account of the War of Wrath. Men and Noldor were only saved because Ulmo had defied the ban of the Valar to dwell in the waters of Middle Earth, had repeatedly tried to contact Men (he failed because nobody had taught them the language of the valar, but his presence still called to them and taught humans all to love the sea), and he basically engineered the events that lead to the other Valar being convinced to come and defeat Morgoth and save Middle Earth.

He abandoned the world afterwords, yes, but of all the Valar only Ulmo EVER tried to contact humans or help them out, the rest didn't care at all.

>>52383649
based ulmoposter

>>52381378

Because after losing the Ring, he had go back to drawing from his personal reserves again. He didn't spend himself dry making the Ring, and so long as the Ring existed somewhere his remaining power did as well.

It was once the Ring was destroyed that his remaining power (a share of which had gone into the Ring) was destroyed. Remember the line? "Everything made or started with that power." Which was basically by that point everything.

Which gets back to what I said above. Sauron's mistake was putting on the Ring immediately. The other Rings had only just been made and the elves immediately sensed Sauron's assumption of power. Had Sauron waited a few centuries or even a millennium, then even if they'd sensed him and stopped using the Rings, he would still have seized control of everything they had already used their Rings to preserve. He got impatient and struck far too soon.

He ended up being undone the same way he could have defeated the elves.

>>52383649

When Ulmo talks to Tuor, he explains why it appears that he's working at cross-purposes with his fellow Valar. And why it's all cool.

Remember that they're all performing their duties according to the cosmic plan. Ulmo indeed rocks, and rocks hard, but he's doing his job, not rebelling.

>>52385098
It's not an outright rebellion, no, but it defies Manwe's order all the same. Even if that's his job and even exactly what Eru wants him to do. That's all I meant.

Ulmo is ultimately the only Vala that Men should respect. The rest are only interested in Elves.

Though I want to mention that Tolkien does say in a letter that the Valar's actions of abandoning Middle Earth and treating Men like trash were a mistake on their part.

>>52385028
Do you think Sauron would've been able to dominate all the Elven Ringbearers if they'd not taken off the Three Rings?

I recall there's something where Galadriel talks about how she's locked in a constant mental battle to keep Sauron from seeing into her mind, and she's winning. Is that right?

Any of you anons ever run or play a One Ring game?

>>52345227
Hammer of Daemons, one of my personal favorites, had Alaric temporarily possessed.
He had a collar of Khorne out on him, stripped of his armor and made a gladiator slave, and was locked on a boat with a captured demon of Tzeenth(forgive the spelling) and ended up relinquishing control.
He personally didn't fall, however. He came to and rocked that shit.
It's a really good book, whether you're an Imperium or Chaos fan.
(In my humble opinion)

>>52372758
Naw his family has been publishing stuff based on his note that are pretty good reads, better than most modern fantasy actually.

They already made Children of Hurin, next is Beren & Luthien, then Fall of Gondolin.