Honest question: Does 4/tg/ still hate Kender with a violent,

Yes.

We still hate these fuckers.

>>52324752
I don't really hate Kender, I hate the kind of players who like to play Kender. They're a means for That Guy to rob people blind while insisting "That's what my character would do!" and "I'm still Neutral Good guys, that's just how Kender act!". Their lore indicates that if you act all doe-eyed and innocent nobody will begrudge you for being a total asshole and, say, taking the fighter's healing potions and throwing them in the river because you wanted to know what it would sound like. Their lore isn't all that worse than, say, your homebrewed Kitsune monstrosity but it just encourages players to be assholes.

If you want to play a Kender in a game you should make it clear to the other players and the GM that you're not going to steal ANYTHING. Don't play any classes like Rogue or Bard, stick to something like Fighter or Paladin if you can. I'd recommend playing something like a wandering ex-soldier, traveling the countryside and doing odd jobs to help people. Something that embodies the wanderlust and curiosity of your race while keeping your hands away from other people's packs. Playing an honourable and chivalrous Kender who wouldn't even touch something without the owner's permission... that would probably be the best way to go.

>>52324752
They're awful. It's like one of the game devs let their 10 year old make a race after watching the animated Hobbit movie and corrected it grammatically and it got shipped without any checking or revision. They have no redeeming factors that can't immediately be thwarted by other aspects and fail in comparison to comparable things.

>>52324752
Homebrew Kender
>+1 Dex, +1 Int
>proficiency in sleight of hand, deception

>>52324825
>>52325170
Thank your time. Your contributions are appreciated.

>>52324959
Thank you for your time. I find your insights into how Kender can be better played valuable, and your contribution is appreciated.

>>52325205
An interesting idea towards fixing Kender. Your contribution is appreciated, and thank you for your time.

>>52324752
I still don't understand how kenders were made. Like, what was the thought process here? I mean, I remember how Dragonlance novels and setting were based on the author's tabletop game.
> Hey, remember that guy, who kept stealing from the party? Let's make a whole race of him! Won't that be adorable?

>>52325247
Truly it is a mystery, one we may never have the answer to.

>>52324959
I feel that's going too far in the opposite direction, because at the point you're describing, you're no longer player a kender; the wanderlust is an aspect of their culture, yes, but so is a lack of understanding of personal property.

I would instead play a kender paladin as a very collectivist one; he doesn't steal, but he considers all resources shared by the party (or even shared by people as a whole). If the mage takes a bolt to the titty, the paladin is out of healing abilities, and the dickass rogue's pack is nearby with some healing potions in it, the kender paladin wouldn't see an issue with using potions that "belong" to the rogue because, as far as he can see, the rogue was just carrying them for the party. Gear and equipment is used by those that get the most use out of them, but no one "owns" anything directly, especially the kender paladin himself.

I kind of want to try this out now.

>>52325205
Doesn't seem balanced. Make it a subrace of halfling with +1 int, but remove the lucky feat and replace them with proficiencies

>>52324752
Kender aren't that bad if played well. Remember that you're going to handle things based on what you find interesting, not what's the most valuable or what will make you a pain in the ass. If you're stealing a gold pouch, then you're doing it wrong. Gold is boring. That odd glowing mushroom? Now that's worth investigating.

You also should ALWAYS give anything you take back if asked, and in fact should probably volunteer anything the players are looking for. You're not trying to collect wealth, you don't have a concept of wealth for good or bad. So if you're making the players play "find the healing potion," you're doing it wrong - you should immediately offer that healing potion you just picked up somewhere because you knew it'd be useful.

>>52325205
>>52325380
Give them a Handling ability. Basically, any item in the inventory of a party member who takes a Short Rest anywhere near the Kender enters a state of quantum uncertainty - until the other party member or the Kender makes use of it, it's considered to be in both of their inventories at the same time. Whoever uses it first determines its actual position.

>>52324959
>rob people blind

As a proper longbeard grog, this is what pisses me off about Kender players. A Kender is attracted to shiny, but moreso is attracted to NOVEL. Oooh, you have 638 gold secreted about your belongings. Meh. That beetle carapace in your saddlebag, MUCH more interesting. Things that can be played with, that are invested with color and motion, that are unique, these are the things that appeal to a Kender. Stealing all your shit is boooring, because who wants your trousers and bedroll and scroll of blah blah blah and that +who cares scary blade of whatever etc etc.

Whimsy, ADD, and a total disregard for self-preservation. That's what makes a Kender.

>>52325507
no.

>>52325205
Problem with kender was never the mechanics

Kenders were a mistake

>>52325542
no im saying, you remove absolutely everything but that which i stated. Just make the kender a slightly different mechanically and abolish the old lore to hellfire and eternal damnation. PH barely has more than a few lines on the subraces anyway for halflings.

>>52325530
It works as long as your Kender player isn't a flaming dipshit who uses items for no reason. Which admittedly is a big assumption.

>>52325635
a very very big assumption

Kender is impossible to fix, just the name comes with a bigass baggage, people who know the kender and want to play a kender already are tainted. Only those oblivious to it wouldn't fuck shit up, but then why not call it Quickfingers Halfling and leave it as a halfling subrace?

>>52325231
No problem OP. I hope it helps.

>>52325347
Perhaps instead of seeing the group's equipment as a collective he might be very generous with his own gear and income. Perhaps he'd buy lots of potions and supplies in town and give them to the party whenever they need them. Your idea isn't bad but I'm a bit concerned about him going through the party's stuff, definitely something you'd have to do AFTER you built up a decent level of trust with them.

As for going "too far in the opposite direction", I think you can roleplay the struggle of that in an interesting way. Having to constantly keep his hands to himself and respect other people's personal space would be a lot of effort for a Kender, like refusing to scratch an itch that never goes away. I like the idea of a Kender going against his upbringing because he's learned that it's not socially acceptable in non-Kender society, like how a female Drow would struggle with treating men with respect.

>>52325519
Exactly. The core idea of a Kender is a whimsical, infinitely curious traveller with rose-coloured glasses. You can roleplay that effectively without ever touching another character's belongings. I think that a good Kender can be all that while still respecting the personal space and ownership of other people.

>>52324752
Of course we hate Kender. It's literally one of the worst races ever created by a serious publisher.

>>52325347
>>52325416
>>52325519
Your insight is appreciated, longbeard. Thank you for your time.

>>52325563
>>52325692
>>52325889
Thank you for your time, gentlemen. You contributions are appreciated.

This thread may not have lasted long, but I think that the responses thus far have been sufficient. Have a wonderful day, all.
t.OP

>>52325839
Point taken; internal drama can be a lot of fun, and it's nice to see some that's not in the form of FIENDISH HERITAGE ANGST.

>>52324959
>If you want to play a Kender in a game you should make it clear to the other players and the GM that you're not going to steal ANYTHING.
Kender characters should always be taking things from other characters without it even being a conscious player choice. A kender who doesn't handle, regardless of their class, is a special snowflake.

There's massive "story game"-style potential there, but since most D&D players seem obsessed with play that tracks every fungible element and never deprotagonizes a character, it's a terrible fit.

>>52324959
While I like your character concept, this is all so far-removed from the actual Kender race description you may as well just play a halfling.

>>52324752
I don't "hate" Kender, I just think they're a terrible idea. The entire point of their racial personality is jamming your sticky fingers into someone else's pockets and taking stuff just because it looks cool. This is obnoxious no matter how willing you are to give it back. Which, by the way, is not a constant in their racial lore. Sometimes they'll give it back, but other times they'll "lose" it or just outright lie about never taking it in the first place. The only really give stuff back if you outright catch them with it, at which point they offer up some half-truth about just wanting to look at it. Stealing stuff from the party is annoying no matter how apologetic you are about it.

The worst part about Kender though is the guy who wrote their lore just thinks they're the bee's knees. He clearly though these creatures were charming and adorable even though they're little more than petty thieves. This kind of racial identity attracts the worst kinds of players.

Do any D&D settings outside Dragonlance have Kender at all? The licence for Dragonlance expired 10 years ago. It seems like a non-issue nowadays.

>>52327305
No, but I'm pretty sure 5e still has official stats for them.

>>52327305

I think by this point the resentment towards them mostly comes from the fact their behavior isn't exclusive to the race. You can play any race like a Kender (though I find these types still prefer "small" races like Halflings and Gnomes). The Kender provide a unique punching bag for this kind of player even if the race itself is largely irrelevant by this point.

It's also a good litmus test for /tg/ers who've clearly never actually played an RPG. I cannot believe an unironic Kender apologist has ever really gamed.

>>52327305
Not really, because, like Draconians, Kender are considered intimately "tied" to their birthplace, in comparison to more generic races like orcs, dwarves and elves.

Technically, they could and I think did show up in Spelljammer and Planescape, but neither of those have been supported in years.

>>52325692
There's no reason to ever play Kendar in the first place, they are literally just obnoxiously dumb halflings.

>>52324752
I never gave a shit about Kenders. People who have strong feelings about an imaginary race are fucked up.

>>52324752
GET THE FUCK O-

>I don't have designs on making a Kender character
...oh. Yes, we still hate them.

AND DON'T YOU DARE WEASEL OUT BY MAKING A FUCKING KENDER FOR A NON-/TG/ GAME YOU FUCK

File: Kender.png (2MB, 1986x1108px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1986x1108px

>>52324752
Why would anyone hate them less? They're a trash race that only exists if you dictate how the rest of the setting treats them.