>Dual Bosses. >One Knight and a witch >Witch is more

>>52242615
Give the Knight a special property that once per round or something he can intercept an attack made for the witch and/or makes a retributive attack against the person who harmed the witch.
Think the Swine King from Darkest Dungeon: Attacking his aid is a BAD idea, because instead of attacking two of your allies, he does a full-party heavy attack. Killing his aid means he does this EVERY TURN.

>>52242615
Witch stays out of reach, uses cover and hit and run tactics, knight stays close and personal.

>>52242615
Knight hits harder every time the witch takes damage or knight hits harder every time an attack isn't directed at him.

>>52242615
>Witch can't be hurt until knight is dead

>Witch is objectively less threatening than the knight, less damage etc
>When the knight dies, the witch is empowered

>Witch is out of reach, up on top of a tower etc
>Are you gonna leave your friends behind while they're getting attacked by the knight and bombed by the witch?

>When the knight dies the witch comes back alive

And so on.

>>52242615
The witch is mounted on the knight. Or

>>52242615
The knight is also a paladin that's frantically healing her even while he's getting wailed on.

I swear to God you better pull a "He get's back up out of determination to save her" thing at least once.

>>52242996
This, you want to lure them into trying to attack the witch, but doing so will leave them exposed to the knight. The optimal strategy for the encounter should be the party splitting and some focusing on the knight and some on the witch, or forming a battleline, with the fighters holding the knight and the casters blasting the witch. Focusing on one should be punished.

>>52242615
>How do I prevent players from using tactics?
But... why?

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Because the knight becomes a knigtmare if you kill her first

The witch rides piggyback on the knight, and the knight's legs are broken and he crawls around

>>52243850
The players would have to know this before the fight starts. They won't have a second chance to do this like in Dark Soul's.

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>>52242615
Make them one

>>52242615
To answer your question: Shield Other effect. Witch SHOULD be the weak point of the duo, but this way, you can have the witch last longer and have the player STILL have an effect in game.

You're still rewarding a tactically good solution.

An illusion could work as well.

Also >>52243051:

>Witch can't be hurt until knight is dead
Shit MMO tier

>Witch is objectively less threatening than the knight, less damage etc
Great idea. Attacks "wasted" on the witch only makes the real threat last longer.
> When the knight dies, the witch is empowered
Why d'you have to ruin it?

>Witch is out of reach, up on top of a tower etc.
I like this idea. Add cover, a stealth check and elevation bonus, otherwise, it's just easy picking for an archer, especially since terrain makes the witch appear like a priority target. But this suggest the duo have prep time.

> When the knight dies the witch comes back alive
Witch just become a non-threat as the party can freely grapple her and turn her into a shiskebab (yes, I assumed her gender).

>>52243810
Not preventing tactics, preventing obvious, easy tactics so they have to tactics harder.

Just make the witch a geomancer. She can make her own cover or toss people aside who try to get close, and even give the knight a boost or use the earth to throw him at the party.

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>>52242615
> >Dual Bosses.
> >One Knight and a witch
> >Witch is more fragile.

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Dowan
http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Duvessa

>>52242615
I had a similar idea, which included a pair of lovers, one being the massive damage dealer and basically just a wall and the other being a debuff/poison who heals her husband when his HP drops too low.
He'd probably be a Paladin(Conquest)/Fighter and she'd probably be a Bard with some other bonus effects that allowed her extra mobility to top off her constant Vicious Mockery assault.

>>52242615
Make a fight in a tight corridor (or on a path with a cliff) so the knight can block the way to the witch.

>>52242615
>How do I prevent players from killing the witch first?

Depends. Why is it important that the players kill the knight first?

>>52242958
no no no no no
its is ok in darkest dungeon as a video game when he wiped me for killing him it was ok because it was a game where this is expected but killing pcs may kill the game it is very hard to telegraph what your bosses mechanics are give them a pre fight or let them watch a fight gone wrong if you want mechanics like that if they miss the pre encounter force it to happen during the boss fight then the knight bodies them or just straight up tell them that the knight has anti you attacking the witch shit

>>52244504
I agree that it needs to be telegraphed early. The retribution should appear early and not be a death sentence, but significant enough to be notable. The witch and knight should also be noted to have some sort of relationship the players know about that calls for this kind of behavior.

>>52244128
>Why d'you have to ruin it?
OP clearly wanted both characters to be important. If the witch is just a weak minion she wont be important and probably not memorable. She was probably in love with the knight so seeing him die sends her on a revenge driven frenzy.

>Witch just become a non-threat as the party can freely grapple her and turn her into a shiskebab (yes, I assumed her gender).
She should be strong enough to do something on her own, at least. The party will be exhausted after dealing with the knight and their minions, hopefully.

Do you want them to kill the knight first, as the thread seems to have taken it, or simply want them to not bumrush the witch for being squishier?

Either way, I'd suggest an encounter with a dynamic similar to Alad V and Zanuka. Make it so the witch is actively making the knight ridiculously tanky, or just enough that it's far easier to target the witch. After a while, the witch switches to self defence, while the knight supports them, gives them spare health potions, and generally makes it a pain to attack the witch further. Once they've killed the knight, they are free to target the witch.

>>52242615
Give the witch a reusable summon that explodes for damage equal to its HP if she is struck by an enemy. Hit her if you want but that explosion will fuck you up.

Set the knight up like a 4e defender? Punish/Penalize the player for going for his allies, rather than himself.

I think the right way is just to make the knight an immediate threat that NEEDS to be dealt with -- he charges and hits and he's strong as shit -- while the witch is doing some minor shit, casting small spells from a distance, maybe has good cover that's hard to broach.

>>52244654
> OP clearly wanted both characters to be important. If the witch is just a weak minion she wont be important and probably not memorable. She was probably in love with the knight so seeing him die sends her on a revenge driven frenzy.

And "importance" is dependant on viability in combat? Have her deal small debuffs on the party while the menace IS the knight.

Hexes, minor summons that hinder / offer flanking opportunities for the knight along with much more potent wards on herself. If I go with Pathfinder (I know, it's shit), Mage Armor / Shield / Protection from Alignment / Evasion / Disguise Self / Mirror Image / Levitate then Ray of Fatigue / Summon Monster 1 and 2 / Doom, etc.

All while the Knight Power Attack / Furious Focus / Sunder Weapon.

Guess who's the threat now. Sure the witch is annoying, but assuming the couple is level 6, the knight can deal some serious damage.

Have it be dangerous to get close to the witch. Maybe some (magical) traps around her?
To enhance the knight/witch dynamic, have the knight be provoked by PCs who target the witch with ranged attacks.

>>52244293
Do you happen to play/care about Overwatch?

>>52242615
Played through Demons's souls recently have we?

>>52246882

There are worse sources for a good final boss.

>>52244257

Aren't you supposed to kill Dowan first? His sister gets a much weaker power boost.

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>>52242615

Have the witch ride around on the knight's back.

Witch is a lich, knight is phylactery.
ez pz

>>52244088
They would know if the knight gradually becomes enraged and more powerful as you hurt the witch.

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>>52242615
THE WITCH

HAS FUSED

WITH THE KNIGHT!

>>52249865
>knight is phylactery.
That is not and never has been how phylacteries work, you fucking retard.

Make the knight a much more pressing threat. The players won't try to kill the witch if the knight is fucking breathing down their necks at every moment.

Or put the witch somewhere that the players can't get her, like behind a barrier that is held up by the knight's existence, maybe if they can knock the knight down, the barrier drops, so they can attack the witch in that small frame. Or have the witch literally unkillable as long as the knight is around.

Ooh, or heres an idea, the dual bosses are actually one boss. The witch is incredibly powerful, but fragile, and the knight is weak in battle, but practically unkillable. When the players attack the witch, she can immediately switch to the knight to use him as a shield until they get enough distance or a spot to switch back and drop the bomb on the players

>>52251767
Shit man its almost like that shit is fake and can be anything the dm wants it to be since they make the ruuuuules

>>52248983
Dowan blinks around, while Duvessa directly follows you. That means you can kill her, then escape to the nearest stairs to restore health and magic before finishing Dowan.
That, and berserk is a rather powerful effect. Many characters would have troubles dealing with enraged melee fighter.

>>52242615
What system?

>>52242615
Make the witch's main attacks setting up magical proximity bombs and other area-denial spells that can really fuck the PCs shit up if they're too reckless in closing the distance, and have the knight regularly knock them in to said deathtraps if they don't pay enough attention to him?

>>52242615
>How do I prevent players from killing the witch first?
do it similar to how the Witches of Hemwick boss fight in Bloodborne worked, where if you killed one and don't kill the other fast enough the dead one will be brought back to life

>>52242615
Put the witch on the knights back

>>52244504
This post needs punctuation.