The Witch is Dead Edition Mk3 list building:http://conflict

Question to the people who still play this game, is it Stockholm syndrome?

>>52208139
I'm Khador, I like this game.

There's also no popular wargames to switch for, only skirmishes.

Don't forget CID people, only you can save Witch2 and 3 from aggressive mediocrity.

>>52208139
The game is way way better than it was in MKII, and far superior to every other option at its scale.

I assume you're an asshurt Cryx babby or that one fag from the AoS general who comes here to troll.

>>52208139
I still like the underlying mechanics and the setting fluff, even if my army got nerfed into dogshit. I'm still playing, just not buying.

>>52208440
No I'm someone who doesn't actually play the game, but a friend of mine played Cryx and a different friend was a press ganger so from what I've been hearing the game and PP have been going to shit

>>52208615
Those are kind of the definition of biased sources though.

>>52208615
Both your friends are biased as hell.

The Cryx guy especially. Cryx used to be unquestionably the best faction, now they're more or less on the same tier as everyone else (though they do have some internal balance issues, there should be more reason to not use Satyxis). Bad players used to coast by on their objective superiority and everyone was forced to build at least one list specifically for shanking Cryx at tournaments.

Predictably, most Cryx players did not handle the change from supreme overpowered god faction to more or less equal with everyone else well.

>>52208440
There are a few things I miss from Mk2, like viable infantry and better internal balance (at least in the factions I play).

Overall, though, I think the game is much improved.

>>52208870
I find that the factions I play (Khador, Menoth, Ret, Circle, Cryx) have a lot of viable infantry. Except Cryx, who only has a few, which are coincidentally the only ones I care about.

Which factions can't run infantry?

>>52208975
Cygnar is about where they were in mk2 as far as choices go. We've always had lances, we just traded gunmages for trenchers. The rest of our options were always somewhere between subpar and aweful. Or at least, that's the popular opinion.

I personally like stormblades, but understand why people say they need a better delivery mechanic than most of what the faction can give them.

>>52208401
No we can't, they ignore us and do what they want.

In a discussion about The Child being super shitty at both her jobs as a melee beater and a beast heavy warlock someone said he'd rather take The Heretic over The Child every time because he's actually a decent warlock.

Pagani's response was "So The Heretic is the issue?".

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>>52209607
Here's a screencap for posterity.

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>>52208109

Any legion players have any tips for fielding nyss legionnaires? I never get much out of them unless they're next to my blightbringer for the armor buff. I quite like the models, but feel like I'm not really using them effectively.

>>52209770
Where's this going down?

>>52209801
Take swordsmen instead. Leggos are poopoo.

>>52208440
>superior to every other option at its scale
And what exactly are those options you speak of?

>>52209858
CID forums.

>>52209878
AoS, 40K.

I mean there's KoW too, but that's a fundamentally different game despite using the same scale.

>>52209878
Is Gates of Antares a similar scale? Saw one demo a year ago but no idea if it was representative.

>>52209957
Yeah, it is, but it's really not that good.

Better than 40K in terms of rules though.

>>52209878

Wrath of Kings is a good game in the same scale, but it never took off much outside of its kickstarter and is pretty much stillborn.

>>52210103
That was another one where the models were so out there artistically that no one ever seemed to get really into it. Had one group of like 5 at my LGS that tried to push it and the SciFi one I can't remember the name of but no one else ever bought in.

>>52209921
Is Kings of war any good? I'm legit thinking about getting into it. I've never done the whole movement trays sort of thing. the one Obsidian war golem model loons sweet. kinda like a wolf wrath

>>52209858
http://cid.privateerpress.com/forum/theorycrafting-listbuilding/t-l-taco-field-test-spring-2017/2537-improving-the-child

You have to get approved by the staff for an account for the forums to view it, though.

Getting one is easy, thankfully.

>>52210232

I quite like it, it plays fast and the movement is intuitive and fun.

>>52209997
What about warpath?

>>52210435
Is it even out yet?

>>52208401
I am not allowed to CID, so I guess I have to live with the fact that Witch2 will be just as bad as Witch1.

>>52210337
is it competitive like wmh?

>>52211467
If you want yeah, it's very balanced (some options are OP, like some flying big monsters) and you can play with clocks, it released tournament rules if I recall well, to limit cheesiness and buff weak units. But a beer and pretzels game it works well too,you can make lots of different armies inspired in lots of fantasy universes with ease, specially if mages aren't that important.

>>52211467
If you use the tournament pack and the FAQ like you are supposed, to then definitely. I picked it up myself because it is WHFB but without the bullshit, and I can use WMH figures in my army with the entire thing being tournament legal.

>>52211775
Where do you kings of war players hang out online? I've never seen a general for it here on TG?

>>52209801

I honestly haven't found much of a use for them since MK3 started. Even last edition I used them mostly for cheap pot bodies, but now that they cost more and lesser warbeasts are less useful I can't really justify their use.

>>52212457

Check the big Alternative Wargames general. Lots of smaller games end up there.

So I finally spent some money instead of being a Jew and got myself a unit of Praetorian Swordsmen and UA. Now originally I was running Nihilators with Naaresh, but I'm correct in thinking that Swordsmen are just straight up better, right? Same DEF but higher ARM, with the UA they get sidestep so can still chew through infantry. They lose out on threat range but man like, mini feat weaponmaster is pretty tasty on a cheap-ish unit like that.

Which then brings me to the question of do I just fuck Naaresh off and use Makeda1?

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First game in four months later, rate my list from 1 to painfully generic

>>52212926
>Ret
>Heavy spam
Pick one. Ret is a faction of wet noodle warjacks and infantry that hits like a train.

>>52212901
IMHO you should have fucked off from Nareesh awhile ago. He's a trap!

>>52211467
Is it wet, like being set on fire? Is it social, like a severe autism convention?

>>52212952
I was under the impression that Vyros1 enjoys having heavies to zip around with Mobility and smash things while under feat.

Better to swap the Sphinx for a unit of Halberdiers, then?

>>52213001
>Naaresh is a trap
Not exactly famalamadingdong. The problem is people are afraid of fielding Cyclops Savages, when with Rush they have an outright stupid threat range of 13". Under feat a Savage can almost take out a heavy assuming it's low enough DEF to reliably hit, and against high DEF stuff you can just boost the hit and laugh as you still put huge damage on them. Sure they'll probably frenzy next turn, but I've had quite a lot of success running them at my LGS purely because no one wants to have to spend a heavy's activation dealing with one since a 13/19 with 19 boxes left won't die to regular infantry unless you put it somewhere really stupid like right in front of them. Also with a TyCom, Naaresh's assassination game is huge. And there's always my favourite trick of a Handler whips him, he transfers the damage to a beast still giving him a blood token, and the beast now has Pain Response. Just feels super efficient and lets you put PR online remotely, potentially opening up unexpected lines of play outside feat turn. Oh and don't forget he has a massive 32 beast points. It's like he makes a Gladiator only cost 11 points.

He's much better than most people give him credit for, the issue is just that Makeda1 lets Karn and Swordsmen go ballistic. AND SHE KEEPS MINIONS ALIVE WHAT THE SHIT IS THAT FEAT ALL ABOUT

>>52211321
Whats your problem with OW2 (aside from the shitty feat).

>>52213870
That's the problem. The feat at least did something before.

>>52212952
>three heavies is spam now

Wew.

>>52213271
Nah, the list is fine. Not super hyper competitive (super hyper competitive simply wouldn't be running Vyros1, because he's not at simple to play as Ossy or Issyria), but good, and certainly not generic.

I mean, Halberdiers are always good for jamming purposes, but your list isn't in dire need of changing. Personally I'd take either the Sphinx or one of the Griffons out, but I'd probably use the points for some solos or a bit of ranged threat. Ret has a lot of units that are super good at scalpeling out key threats or annoying shit that are usually hard to get to grips with, which may cause your current list trouble.

>>52213916
Oh sorry I forgot, 3 heavy warjacks doesn't cost half of your list's worth of points, that's heavy warbeasts.

>>52212926
The list looks fine. My only concern with it is feat delivery. pVyros' feat is a monster to deliver, and if you get unlucky with terrain you're pretty fucked as the Sentinels are your only real means to the flank bonus. I would recommend dropping one of the Griffons for a min unit of infiltrators.

>>52212952
Fuck off, do you even Ret retard?

>>52214686
I have seen desperate things like Arcanists and even Sylys having to run at my jacks to get the feat buff.

It's great.

>>52208756
>Predictably, most Cryx players did not handle the change from supreme overpowered god faction to more or less equal with everyone else well.
Most MK2 Cryx players were dogshit who supplemented their lack of skill with overpowered and overperforming models.

When they were brought back in line with everyone (and they have been, despite memelords thinking Cryx is somehow worse than Convergence, Trolls and former Skorne) they were now at a skill level far below that of the average player, and started losing. They attribute it to MK3 changes when in reality they play like utter dogshit and refuse to git gud.

>>52214945
I must admit, part of me does find a sense of pure schadenfreude in this.

One of the people I really managed to grind my anti-Cryx levels on was one of these guys. He was your typical specimen - he used only the most competitive, overtested builds and only the most infuriatingly overpowered 'casters. I got games with him constantly, because he'd actively avoid fighting anyone close to his powerlevel, like Cygnarans or Legionnaires or other Cryx players, and he knew that my Ret would always be at a disadvantage against him. For the longest time I didn't even have a single way to deal with Banes, as it took years for Ret to get a single method of circumventing Stealth.

I learned a fuckton about fighting Cryx from him. Then the update hit, and, holy shit, he was not happy. I played one game with him after that, and I haven't seen him put Warmahordes stuff on a table since. He does MtG now.

I feel like it's a shame that the game lost people over this, but fuck, man, what did they expect? They gave the babbies an army of choice and somehow thought they'd stick around when the playing field was leveled and they had to actually learn to tactics.

>>52213344
>AND SHE KEEPS MINIONS ALIVE WHAT THE SHIT IS THAT FEAT ALL ABOUT

Gremlin Swarms are probably the best use I've found for it for Minion options. I didn't even think much of them, I just had 3 points and thought it would be cute to block charge landing zones with. But holy shit try putting one of these assholes on the table and realize just how poorly prepared people are to deal with a stealth incorporeal model.

Are Cryx really that bad or are people babies? Mk2 Asphy2 was the worst type of ass cancer for mercs. Feat to kill your colossal, biles to kill your infantry. Fuck that faction

>>52215262
They're not actually low tier like many Cryxfags report. They're pretty balanced now.

They do have internal problems though. Some of their options are just straight up inferior to others to the point where there's really no point in ever running them. Satyxis units are still SUPER good like they were before and you'd have to be retarded to run any other kind of infantry, for example.

They're not bad on an inter-faction level, but on an intra-faction level I can see where people are coming from.

>>52215262
Cryx is really strong still, they are just predictable because all of their good models allow exactly two lists and three casters to see the table at higher level play.

They also struggle against Cygnar if they bring the Haley Sue x Sloan pairing. But everyone struggles with Cygnar, they are fucking retarded atm.

>>52215247
I've found that any of the high DEF minions are the best things to bring purely because it's impossible to pile enough shots into them to make me let one go. Bellows Crew are nuts I've found.

>>52215262
>Are Cryx really that bad

We have several Cryx players in our meta playing Ghost Fleet now and it's actually really brutal. No one is teching for infantry now, and if you're not prepared for it then there's literally nothing you can do about the Rev crew just coming back and back and back. It's not unbeatable, but with Denny1 at the helm it's certainly a powerhouse list. The shitty thing is that a lot of factions can't afford to have one of their lists teched against Ghost Fleet because then they potentially weaken themselves from the other side of the spectrum like gunlines or jack spam.

I can sympathize that Cryx players now might not want to have to buy a lot they don't already own, but if you want to stay competitive then Ghost Fleet is the way to do it.

>or are people babies

tl;dr kind of both, but mostly people are being babies. I do agree that the Cryx internal balance is really shit right now. It's either good enough to play with the big boys(Denny1, Coven, Satyxis), or just flat out garbage(Banes, McThralls, most helljacks). I think what people are really salty about is that Cryx in Mk2 required a LOT of purchases, and now a lot of those purchases are just sitting on the shelf while they take the good 15% of their faction.

>>52213017
I don't understand where you're going with this.

Does anybody have the rules for the Grymkin?

>(Makeda 1) Archdomina Makeda [+29]
- Aradus Soldier [16]
- Molik Karn [19]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13]
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Tyrant Zaadesh [4]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Saxon Orrik [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Feralgeist [2]

Find a flaw I fucking dare you to try. This will be paired with:

>(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
- Mammoth [38]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Agonizer [6]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]

>Literally not one weakness in this pairing.

>>52215877
>Find a flaw I fucking dare you to try

No.

>>Literally not one weakness in this pairing.

Okay.

Who is planning on playing the spooky halloween faction?

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>>52216122
>spooky halloween faction?
Can't stop thinking of how cool the faction would have been if they went serious-Bloodborne instead of goofy-Halloween. It would have fit the aesthetics of the setting so much better.

Oh, well.

>>52216122
>>52216148
They didn't really go Halloween. They're actually really thematically tight in terms of being all about pastoral horror.

The problem is that a few models, like the tree thing, just look too cartoony.

>>52216370
>They didn't really go Halloween.

Bruh there is literally a unit with jack o lantern heads.

>>52216122
I really like the Hollowmen and the Heretic. In terms of fluff, rules, and aesthetic those models really grab my interest. Some of the other mechanics in the faction really speak to me too.

I may try my hand at giving the Dread Rots different heads. I feel like they'd look really good with creepy bagheads, more like traditional scarecrows.

I'd only really make one army to play occasionally, as I'm not interested in any other of the warlocks.

>>52216417
...Which are derived from traditions mostly adhered to by farmers back in ye olde days.

Grymkin are pretty much horror for country folk. Mad animals, bad harvests, scary witches in the woods, etc. Which makes sense considering that they're mostly on the fringes of civilization and in most nations their targets - Menites - are the more traditional, country types rather than people in the IK's cities. They're actually pretty clever, really.

I just think they went too cartoony with the proportions in places. The themes are spot on, the execution... hit and miss.

>>52216500
But I think everyone would've just preferred Gothic horror mixed with hell. Like, the Piggy Backs fill me with disgust in a way that breaks the fourth wall. I don't like it.

>>52213900
Well don't expect her to get good any time soon. The devs want her to be shit at personal assassination and easy to kill.

>>52216526
I definitely would not have preferred gothic horror.

Not even sure what you mean by gothic horror, since actual gothic horror is really about atmosphere, architecture, and heavy psychological focus, but I'm assuming you mean vampires and werewolves.

That said, Bloodbourning the faction up a bit would be cool. I'd like to see the theme of pastoral horror kept, since that isn't something I see often in wargames, but less cartoony flair and more tentacles would be a welcome change.

>>52216417
I don't understand people trying to argue like it's not a nightmare before Christmas dad joke faction. You guys can just say you like it, that's fine. But don't try to lie to us. Pumpkin head guys and units called Skin and Moans. Just stop

>>52216780

Don't forget the Frightmare.

>>52216885
I tried forgetting :(

>>52216885
Have we even seen the model for this?

>>52217034
Not the model, just the art

>>52216548
A model died for this

>>52216780
It's embarrassing.
DC starts a project, comes up with Convergence... a half faction with a decent theme, internal consistency, decent jokes (like a caster with twin weapons action and reaction), etc.

Soles gives us Frightmare, Neigh Slayers, Skin and Moans, and three customisable feats per game because balance. Fuck Soles.

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What are you working on?

>>52215877
So you think that, eh? How many times have you actually played the lists?

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Is it possible to extract casual fun from Thyron, or is he just assassination bait at all play levels?

>>52218325
Ferox. Sweet sweet hell.

>>52219780
Wait til Fane Guardian comes out. Riposte the world

>old witch will never be good
Hold me commarad

>>52215877
What are your feels, fellow skornanon, on Kelts instead of Karax with Mak 1? With quicken they are absolute dicks to hit. And I'm guessing the Karax in your Rasheth list are just for jamming and arc nodes? Ive yet to find a Rasheth Mammoth list I like.

Requesting help, I am a having difficulty dealing with a Krueger Loki combo. I Play Ret and so far my solution is just to use Vyros 1 and use inviolable resolve to stave is off the drag but any tips for playing Ret into circle would help.

>>52220387
>Krueger Loki combo
How does that work?

>>52220617
Krueger can tk Loki and arc through for 4 inches of movement then get drag and buy attacks, then stone warp loki away usually after a stalker finished what loki couldn't and gets warped himself.

>>52220910
That's pretty good. Seems like the best solution would be destroying a stone or using something drag-immune.

>>52220963
IR works but I can only put it on one model, my biggest issue is getting up the board like that when he blocks all the charge lanes with stones and mannikens then just warp drags my other Jacks. Screening them with Dawnguard have a little effect because of Kuruegers lighning gun/ berserk warped stalkers with sprint.

>>52220387
Do ret get any cheap, relatively disposable shield guards?

>>52221109
We have 6 point lights with Shield Guard. Literally a theme that gives all Jacks Shield Guard

>>52218640
>How many times have you actually played the lists?
Quite a few times, actually

>>52220252
Blade Shield only works against ranged attacks and not magic, and they're still only MAT6. And they cost an extra 4 points. I mean I get that they're excellent at jamming, but if your opponent doesn't have any guns they just seem like a waste of points. At least with Karax I know what I'm getting every game.

>>52221152
Drag is no longer a problem then, advance in a brick, flick off shots to the ones at the back.

Sounds like Helios could be very useful in the matchup too.

>>52221224
Yeah I'm not the anon having trouble with it

>>52218325
I'm working on finishing my Flamebringers, and then Sunbursts. After that three lists will be done

>>52221174
Nice. We get a lot of pure-theory posters here. But if you have experience, please don't mind me asking:

Which one do you drop into these matchups and why?

Cygnar: Haley2/Nemo3 or Haley2/Stryker1
Cryx: Denny1/Coven
Protectorate: Amon/Sevy2 or Amon/HR or Sevy2/HR
Legion: Abby2/whatever

These are the ones I'm currently worried about the most.

>>52216526
I certainly prefer the Tim Burton style they went with.

>>52221710
>Cygnar
Rasheth. Castigate stops Thorn from being annoying, and sheer weight of electro leaps makes Makeda1's much heralded feat much worse
>Cryx
Rasheth. He seems better into both feats since a Mammoth standing still and boostig hits with Puppet Master will still land shots even at RAT2, and Coven don't stop me running in warriors to arc through
>Menoth
Makeda1. Swordsmen do great work against spam lists. I get to push forwards hard and pop feat, making it nigh-impossible for my opponent to actually make good use of Synergy. Rasheth can't clear out enough infantry, and a lone Mammoth won't trouble 6 Crusaders
>Legion
Rasheth. Abby2's beasts can't really crack the Mammoth even on feat turn since it's at ARM22 with the Agonizer sat behind. Not to mention Sunder Spirit is exceptional when you can pop one off from out of nowhere through a warrior as losing Slipstream at a bad moment can really put a damper on Legion's threat ranges. Legion beasts are a fairly ideal target for a Mammoth too, as 7 to hit on 3d6 is pretty easy, then their ARM is down at 18 so fuckin' A there lad. Sure I don't know the other caster, but whatever it is I'd still most likely bring Rasheth

>>52221952
I see. Have you played Makeda1 into Sevy2 yet? I feel like this would be rather hard on her.

>>52221968
I haven't played Makeda1 into him yet, and I can imagine it being a rough matchup, but that's my main problem with Menoth these days; it feels like I'm playing list chicken against them constantly.

>>52221977
Basically what I thought. Rasheth works into Sevy2 but not Amon while Makeda works into Amon but not Sevy2.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm currently looking for a pair for my Zaadesh2 list and currently out of what I have painted "none" seems like the best option, because all the other casters I am considering are not in ADR.

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>>52218325
Some asteroids for X-wing. All my Warmachine stuff is painted. For now.

>>52222012
Yeah if you wanna use ADR you're shit out of luck. If your local meta has lots of infantry I'll always recommend Mordikaar, but he's one of those casters who's either amazing or shit. If your opponent has a list Mordikaar can't beat, you straight up can't risk using him. Then it gets to round 4 and you haven't used him yet and you're forced to. He's my favourite Skorne caster well, him or Makeda3 but I just can't use him anywhere. In casual games at my LGS it just feels like cheating when an opponent has lots of living infantry, but then if they don't the game is a one sided crush the other way. You could always use Naaresh, but he just feels like a worse Makeda1.

>>52222060
Luckily here in Germany D&C is on its way out. And strangely enough so is jack spam except for a few cases. So Mordikaar might have game. He's actually on my painting table along with my Ferox. The two should work rather well together.

Naaresh is a bit too close to Zaadesh2 in his model preferences for my taste. Sure he plays differently, but he uses similar models. And I just find him underwhelming. his feat is great but the rest just doesn't do it for me.

And I just dislike Xekaar in every possible way. Wish he was Morg2 and that's something you would have gotten strange looks for saying a year ago.

That said, Zaadesh2 can probably take on almost everything with Specialists.

>>52222249
I'd probably put Zaadesh2 right after Rasheth and Makeda1 personally. Him or Xerxis1. God I love Cetrati with Defender's Ward on them.

>>52209921
>>52210103
In the same vein, there's also Wild West Exodus. Same model scale, comparable figure count. Also had a successful kickstarter but has had trouble gaining traction since.

>>52209921
Bears mentioning that there's a big difference between scale and model count, especially when you're talking about 20 - 30mm, where one model = one dude. Malifaux, Infinity, etc are also the same scale as WMH, they just (usually) have less models on the board. There's no clear line - a large Nicodem zombie horde will have more models than a typical Karchev list, for instance.

Our group here has always used military organization terminology to denote the (approximate) number of models per side in a 28mm-ish game system. So for instance, "squad sized" for 5 -15 guys (Mercs, Infinity, Malifaux), "platoon sized" for 20 - 50 dudes (WMH, 40K, WWX, WoK), and "company sized" for 100 - 200 dudes (WHF and its various bastard offspring, and apocalypse).

For finer-scale games, anything below 20mm, the above distinctions mostly go out the window, because one model doesn't equal one man anymore. You can play Epic with 15mm guys, if you want, or Dropzone Commander with multiple companies of 2mm space marines, for instance, without changing the core rules at all.

>>52210232
A friend of mine once described Kings of War as "what Warhammer Fantasy would be, if WHF actually played how you imagined it playing". It was written by one of GW's best (former) employees. Basically takes the core idea of WHF and throws out all the pointless crap and clunky interactions, and adds a few small-but-crucial innovations to massively speed up play.

In a word, KoW is the game for you if you always loved the IDEA of warhammer, but got tired of the endless cross referencing and 4 hour long games that never reach a definitive conclusion.

>>52222363
I think the best basis for terminology in wargames is mechanics. For example:

Small scale (Infinity): Has no unit mechanics, models usually represent 1 dude each.
Medium (Warmachine): Has unit mechanics, models usually represent 1 dude each.
Large (Historicals): Might have unit mechanics, models regularly represent multiple dudes.

>>52222277
I've been playing little other than Zaadesh2, but his limits are starting to show. Now I'll try out how far I can stretch them with ADR. Being able to spontaneously insert Soulwards, Orin, Krea or Ferox into the list seems crazy strong.

>>52222392
>I think the best basis for terminology in wargames is mechanics
That's fair - I'd see the downside of that as being that you need to clarify what you mean every time. The terms small, medium, and large themselves are unclear, whereas everybody knows what a squad vs a platoon is. Using military structure makes it easy to distinguish between, for instance, Dropzone and Dystopian Wars, which have comparable model counts but a vastly different scale.

>>52222413
Well I just pulled the terms from my ass so don't touch them. Better terms would be skirmish, wargame and something like "epic" wargame. Those are more well-understood.

Couldn't they at least have given Old Witch2 +2 on magic rolls in her feat turn?

I'm okay with toning down stuff that is an issue, but as it stands, the feat is complete horse shit.

>>52218325
Helios, I'd take a picture but I'm at work right now.

>>52219780
Thyron is fundamentally flawed imo.

He has no niche. He doesn't really do all that much for his army and he's not quite enough of a beast personally to make up for that. His spells are all over the place and he doesn't have enough focus to really utilize them anyway.

PP should have gone 100% elf Butcher with him.

>>52223253
I think he's gonna be fun with the Guardian and maybe the Spears of Scyrah. I've always had a soft spot for him so I'm gonna keep trying to make him work. With Guard Dog and knockdown immunity he could become quite a bully.

>>52223253
>>52223470
Once the Guardian comes out he'll have a niche being a Riposting son of a bitch with DEF17 with Immunity to CMA's. That and being the one and only caster in Ret who can run Helios into Menoth and laugh at Passage

>>52223470
>>52224302
He can't have the Guardian and Sylys at the same time, right?

He's already pretty focus-strapped.

>>52223253
He's a broad-spectrum melee buffer with Onslaught and Spellpiercer in a faction of mostly ranged buffers and control casters. That's twice as much niche as most casters get.

If armywide pathfinder and blessed don't seem like a niche to you, that's probably just your local meta not presenting those specific problems. There's definitely a place for him.

>>52209607
As a note, PS 17 free charging Rattlers with Berserk and Overtake seem pretty good, and that only happens with The Child. Her Trump Arcana being a more selective version of a pretty bad feat doesn't help her case though, I'd agree.

>>52222483
They might still improve her. Two weeks left for testing.

>>52223253
>>52224398
Hmmm, I feel like his kit could use some tweaking.

He definitely does not need Ground Zero. Like, it has no use whatsoever. He should really have Quickness or Energizer or something like that instead. Storm Rager is also much less useful now that it's more expensive and his favourite target for it (Issyen) is no longer a hard hitting combat solo.

Surprisingly, the most successful builds I see for him ignore a lot of his spells, and don't really rely on his feat all that much either. People tend to build gunlines that capitalise on Spellpiercer, with Sents as their CQC option since they don't need Onslaught up for Pathfinder. This allows him to keep Storm Rager on himself and go in for assassinations when the lines close and things get messy.

I feel like he has a place, but it's not the place PP wanted, and a lot of his kit needs reconsidering.

>>52225272
>I feel like he has a place, but it's not the place PP wanted, and a lot of his kit needs reconsidering.
That's a fair assessment of Thyron. I'm with you in general terms... a battlegroup SPD buff would be amazing with him (admittedly he already has A Sail, so that probably won't happen).

>Storm Rager is also much less useful now that it's more expensive and his favourite target for it (Issyen) is no longer a hard hitting combat solo.
The Pain Knight was scaled back a bit, but a P+S 15 Weaponmaster cav model is still beastly. And it's not like there aren't other good targets for it - MHA's, Narn, Destor Thane, Artificer (no, really. that's a MAT 9, P+S 19 combo smite, it surprises people)... or my personal favorite, Molik Elara.

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>tfw when your two lists fits perfectly in a half-size Tourney Bag

Fuck carrying around the big suitcases, we S L I M now

>>52224520
I guess they're pretty good at killing medium based infantry.

I don't see many inf hordes right now so I'm not sure how often this kind of thing will be necessary.

>>52225936
What jack do you typically attach to Elara?
I've been trying her out with a Sphinx under Rahn, but that wouldn't be very useful in a Thyron list.

>>52226244
Sadly my two lists include a fucking MAMMOTH

>>52208139
I quit, will probably get the forces of cryx book because I am interested in the erotic adventures of denny & gaspy. Been p happy playing 9th age and mordhiem. I might do 30k

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>>52227324
>I might do 30k

>>52215409
Im okay with some of the nerfs, but I am the most unhappy with the changes to the core rules (no friendly power attacks/ charges, recursion), the actual roll out of mkiii and the lack of internal balance in cryx. None of the casters I like to play are any good or fun anymore and half my collection is garbagio.

The strategic depth and thrill of the game are gone to me.

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>>52227447
Its what my gang picked up and the local infinity crowd is complete ass.

Though I did play a game of 40k relativly recently and I'm still getting 'nam flashbacks. Its awful

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>>52227524
It still boggles me that "we took our sci-fi melting pot setting, cut out all those boring nonhumans, and gave everything the same base statelines and models" was apparently an amazing sales pitch for so many people.

I suppose if the focus of blobs of marines drags it away from 40k's centerpiece bloat it might be an improvement in that regard.

>>52227861
I think 30k appeals because it still had the semblance of order that 40k used to have. Limited army comp, troops were necessary and important, and lords of war were limited to point cost. It's gone a little crazy since then.

There's also love of the 40k background setting, and the accompanying campaign books are pretty fantastic for the most part. The "heresy era," including pre- and post-, was a setting in its own right.

So ya, people are gonna like stuff. The general cuntiness of warmachine players to the warhammer community is what turns a lot of them off to it. Sooo keep it up?

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>>52228243
>having an opinion now qualifies as being a cunt

The guy didn't insult anyone, you drama queen. If he thinks playing Spess Mareens only is dumb and unappealing to him, then that's what he thinks. I have a small 30K Iron Hands army, because I fucking love dreadnoughts, but I can see where he's coming from.

There's a lot of agendas getting pushed in the CID forums by certain players. There's a dozen comments about how Grymkin lose to Cygnar so please "nerf storm lances and electro leaps" instead of buffing Grymkin.

>>52228524
>There's a dozen comments about how Grymkin lose to Cygnar so please "nerf storm lances and electro leaps" instead of buffing Grymkin.
Well, to be fair, does ANY non-Cygnar player really think Storm Lances are okay?

>>52228883
All three of the Cygnar players I know admit Lances aren't okay. Something's gotta give, Swans.

>>52224327
Well Issy's new jack is rumored to have Harmoneous Exaltation on the Arcnode for the first spell arced so it won't be as back

>>52228883
>wah, nerf everything that's above power curve
That attitude is what's ruining mk3 the most. When you start endlessly balancing things out you get pre-errata Skorne in the end, a dull pile of models.
It may be balanced in the end, but it surely not exciting enough to bother playing. It's not a chess game for fuck's sake, Warmachine always was a battle of overpowered rules combinations. If you want a "my victim stat model shoots yours victim stat model" game Infinity general is that way.

>>52229135
>wah, nerf everything that's above power curve

...It's called balancing the game.

The ideal situation is that everything is equally viable to run, if run correctly. The game can still be full of interesting, clever combinations and tactical choices without certain things being retardedly overpowered or absolute autopicks.

>If you want a "my victim stat model shoots yours victim stat model" game Infinity general is that way.

Spoken like a dude who has never played Infinity. Around 80% of your average Infinity force is made up of models with nasty special rules or weird abilities. The game is literally about utility.

>>52226244
Yeah I love mine. I can fit five 75 point lists in mine, but that's only because the Revelator will never be coming out.

>>52228920
I don't understand how they decide what gets buffed/nerfed based on player crying. Mad dogs got nerfed but not winter guard rocket spam, skorne got buffed but not Cryx. Have they ever even said storm lances were "being looked at" or are people just assuming?

>>52229359
Well, Cryx aren't in the same situation Skorne was in.

>>52222249
What are the few cases of jack spam staying around?

>>52229135
>When you start endlessly balancing things out you get pre-errata Skorne in the end, a dull pile of models.
Well, Skorne at least got buffs across the board in less than a year. Nerfs aren't the only things that happen. Honestly if every faction could be brought up to the relative power curve of Retribution, Khador and Cygnar then the game would be pretty cool.

Has PP said whether or not every faction would be getting the CID testing Grymkin treatment? Or is that only new releases?

>>52218325
I WAS working on a GRIND table, but then alcohol got involved so I'm shitting it up in this thread.

>>52229690
New releases only, except that sometimes if they're doing say a Bane theme force they might also put existing Banes in it too (for example).

>>52230122
Hrmmmm... okay. That's something, at least.

Doen't sound good for about 75% of the Trollblood faction, though. All my infantry is pretty much guaranteed to sit on the shelf.

>>52217619
I will always be sad that DC left.
Both CoC and Grymkin draw from 3.5 IK material. Cyriss makes sense as a small faction. Grymkin however, people mostly ignored because it felt out of place except in 3.5. They had to make up a reason for grymkin to band up. Many of the grymkin feel like they have no cards in this fight too. Why would a glimmer imp or cask imp give a shit about war? I hate Grymkin as a faction, even if I love a few of the models.
Also, don't forget that Father Lucant was even in the Witchfire trilogy with his same multi limbed look and beaked face.

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>>52230782
>I hate Grymkin as a faction, even if I love a few of the models.
I have the exact same feelings.

The only silver-lining to Grymkin is that they're a limited release faction and their models are so technically well-sculpted that they give me a lot of hope for all future models PP puts out. Seriously, these are some top-tier sculpts, even if they're thematically out of place in the WaramaHordes universe.

>>52230864
I like hollowmen, Longfellow, The Heretic, Old Witch 2, and the cage rager.
Shit like the neigh slayers are an abomination.

>>52229631
Mostly Amon and a bit of Khador. But Cygnar Heavy Metal could pick up some steam (heh) soon.

>>52230999
>Shit like the neigh slayers are an abomination.
That's what I'm getting at. Thematically, the faction has no place in the WarmaHordes universe. But the *quality* of the sculpts, the proportions, details, posing, that is all top-notch.

Hey guys, what's the most viable Rhulic list, excluding bunny-spam?

My Cephalyx friend finally wants to explore the outside of his pathetic selection pool, but he's not a hardcore player at all.

>>52231264
Really? I think they look all sorta mushy and a pain in the ass to paint. Skin and Moans (ugh) is going to look like shit on the table 95% of the time.

>>52230864
Gonna be honest, the Heretic is just great. He looks amazing, his fluff is pretty cool, and his rules seem both strong and fun.

It's no longer a question of whether I will have a Grymkin force. The question is what models I'll use to replace the Dread Rots' dumb-looking heads with.

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>>52231784
Not sure what you mean by "mushy." I might agree that some models have a lot of details that might become tedious to paint, but I still believe these are some of the most technically well-made models PP has ever produced.

Now if only most of them weren't so goofy.

>>52231815
Yeah, he's my favorite out of the bunch and REALLY doesn't look like he belongs with the rest of the faction.

>>52231077
Not too surprising. I've thought for a long time that Amon is actually *underrated* (especially compared to other jackspammers), since he hits so fucking hard, has anti-magic, anti-shooting, and Enliven to give him the advantage in piece trading.

>>52231264
PP generally makes pretty awesome models these days, so when they model a turd, at least it looks like a really cool turd.
Frightmare is a horse with a face coming out of its mouth, that has an old human face coming out of THAT mouth. It's probably going to be sculpted really really well, but I wouldn't spend money on Soles' deviantart collection, and I won't spend it on this either.

>>52209878
Guild Ball is swank

>>52234180
.... have you tried to assemble the Desert Hydra?

>>52234262
Awesome aesthetically, not necessarily to assemble...

Are sunbursts good with Malekus? I'm trying to build a decent list that isn't the usual jack spam

>>52234180
>Frightmare is a horse with a face coming out of its mouth, that has an old human face coming out of THAT mouth.

...What's wrong with this?

That sounds like a legit hellspawn.

>>52234982
I'm still trying to find the picture. Where did people see it?

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>>52234990
From the CID concept art.
>>52234982
To each their own, but this looks dumb as fuck to me.

>>52235081
Yeah, that looks goofy. Though would've been better if it stayed a horse body and had the xenomorph mouth. Play on the mundane till it turns to look at you thing.

>>52235081
Mind posting the other CID concept art?

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>>52226244

I'm like 75% of the way through magnetizing the bases of my Legion army, and it's so amazing being able to carry pretty much everything now that I don't have to deal with wings hogging up battle foam and Hex Hunter sword arms popping off.

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>>52235195
I can do a few...

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>>52235845

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>>52235875

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>>52235892

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>>52235903

I got given someone's old cryx collection and i just bought my first model (Venethrax) and i am wondering are Brute Thralls worthwhile?

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>>52234982
My only problem is that Soules played Bloodborne and apparently REALLY liked Lawrence The Accursed.

And Eileen The Crow I guess.e

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>>52237534
I mean Ludwig. My bad.

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>>52237572

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>>52237585

>>52231497
Anyone?

>>52235081
I can get behind that design if it were simply drawn (or modeled) in a different style.

Basically, I hope they go for the same sort of aesthetic flair when making the model that the Heretic, or the Hollowmen, or the Cage Rager and Rattler have (rather than the more cartoonish look of stuff like the evil Disney tree).

>>52235081
I just...

I mean... so much potential? why is it bipedal. Give it a regular horse physiology, if you want the front hooves to be claws instead that's fine. Whatever. But give it regular horse physiology, make it rearing up and braying. Give it one head coming out of its mouth, make it either angry as fuck or terrified-looking. That way you can stick to the aforementioned pastoral horror theme with the "demonic horse in my herd" trope that plays out so fantastically and NOT ruin a fantastic concept.

Honestly I'd be WAY more interested in Grymkin if I didn't have to use these models, they're either fantastically on-point of fucking garbage.

>>52235081
>>52235845
>>52235892
>>52235903
>>52235915
>>52237585
>>52237534
>>52237554
Genuinely nothing wrong with these.

>>52235875
Good concept, poor proportions. The name is silly but the stitchskin monster idea is fine. In fact, why didn't they call it a Stitchskin?

>>52237560
Ehhhhhhhhhhhh, isn't she insane? Couldn't we have something more creative, like her still in her straightjacket, but it's unbuttoned and flowing behind her like a grand cape? Whatever.

>>52237572
Eh.

>>52237598
Sweet Jesus that's awful. Why would you ever design this?

>>52231077
Can you give some examples of good Heavy Metal lists? Outside of Stryker1 or Darius doing a variant of arm skew, I can't think of any use for it.

>>52234317
touche

>>52239101
>In fact, why didn't they call it a Stitchskin

Because terrible puns are HIIIIILLLLLLAAAAARRRIIIIIOOOOUUUUSSSSS

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So I've got the Trollbloods battlebox, a Dire Troll Mauler, a ten man unit of fennblades, and I'm going to be getting a krielstone with UA soon.
Where should I go from here? Thinking of picking a Bomber and Whelps.

>>52240186
Seems pretty solid.

The UA for the Fennblades is better to have than not, but don't feel like it's necessary.

PP is trying their hardest to make this a ded gaem. Why do you guys resist?

>>52240676
>implying you aren't allowed to talk about dead games

>>52196381

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>>52240676
Because I'm taking a dead game over not-even-a-game.

>>52240838
>>52240879
>implying a dead game is a bad thing

Why you give into troll?

>>52235081
I will put antlers on them to turn them into wendigos.

>>52241521
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQcNXitLAWE

Hey, would anyone who has played Elara say she runs Manticores well?

With that Boundless Charge going on, Force Generator and Scything Touch, it can put four PS20 attacks on something. Covering Fire also makes up somewhat for her lack of defensive buffs.

>>52240186
Bomber and Whelps age good enough.

>>52231497
They have a competitive list around colossal. Don't know the specifics though.

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>>52240399
>>52242422
Sounds good, what about other warlocks?
Horgle seemed like he might be interesting.

>>52242468
Horgle, Doomie 3/2, Calandra, Gunnbjorn, Grissel2 are all good beast list choices.

I think the only warlock that can compete with troll infantry is Madrak2. Don't know if people managed to make Madrak3 work.

Also consider a colossal.

>>52242468
Trolls don't have a lot of top-dogs at the moment, but Calandra is really good.

Ragnor is usually who she pairs up with (both in theme), but in terms of fun, spamming heavies with Doomshaper2 is funny (and ridiculous if caught unprepared) and playing the Gunnbjorn gunline is factually the most hilarious way to play trolls.

>>52242522
>Grissel2
Really? She doesn't seem like does that much for beasts just looking at her spell list. I might be missing something.
>>52242567
>Gunnbjorn gunline
Does that most involve Bombers and Sluggers?

>>52242743
http://conflictchamber.com/#b71b020r0rfm0k0mcA6e6e

Trollbloods Army - 74 / 75 points

(Gunnbjorn 1) Captain Gunnbjorn [+28]
- Dire Troll Bomber [19]
- Dire Troll Bomber [19]
- Glacier King [35]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6]
- Stone Scribe Elder [3]
Trollkin Warders (min) [10]
Thumper Crew [5]
Thumper Crew [5]

This is what our Troll player used against me.He had so much fun shooting almost all of my stuff into pieces.

A bit too much fun actually, since he let me take scenario win turn 3 without contest.

>>52242468
I absolutely love the concept behind Horgle. More factions need artificer warnouns.

>>52239380
Storm Chamber talked about the theme force in depth in one of their latest episodes, so that's probably a good place to start looking.

>>52242468
Horgle seems super fun to me. Burn things, play things that like burning things and hope you don't get the menoth matchup.

I would bring a bunch of tough things and Croak Raiders.

http://conflictchamber.com/#b71bfL0i0h0j0j9D0rbL0l0bcF

Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points

(Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30]
- Troll Impaler [11]
- Troll Axer [10]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
- Dire Troll Bomber [19]
- Trollkin Runebearer [4]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9]
Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15]
Fennblade Kithkar [4]


how's this look? different guy btw, I'm just also getting into trolls

>>52231497
If rhulic is your desire, pick Ossrum and take dwarves, and play in theme. Its really as simple as that, Ossrum is really quite powerful, he supports dwarf stuff great, and if you want nothing but dwarves the theme list just gives you free points and free rules.

Stay away from highshields though.

>>52243465
How are Durgen and Gorten?

>>52243535
I love them both, but both really want non-dwarf infantry to really be optimized. If competitiveness is not your priority, then I'd say they're acceptable in an all-dwarf army, but you'll be basically deleting a spell off of their cards by doing so (primed for durgen, solid ground for gorten).

>>52242889
Well, Cygnar's Nemo is the Artificer General who invented basically all of Cygnar's storm tech. And Cryx has Lich Lord Mortenebra who invented all of Cryx's warjack and necrotech capabilities.

>>52243454
All those beast and the only fury management you have is a runebearer
Honestly, I would drop the fennblades and go for a Power of Dhunia list if you're going that beast heavy

>>52244023
the only reason I'm so beast heavy is because it was easy to get. I figure I'll end up going PoD after my Journeyman ends, but until then what should I change about that list?

>>52244186
The Impaler will usually struggle to carry it's weight. Replace it with whatever so you seem fit.

>>52244186
Well, consider dropping the Impaler since you've got a bomber for snipe (plus the Impaler isn't really that good anyway).
Two bouncers might be a bit much.

>>52243653
I don't follow, why are those spells useless with a dwarf army?

>>52243975
I'm not sure Mortenebra innovated war jack design for Cryx. I was under the impression that whoever found the Deathjack was constantly trying to reverse engineer it-resulting in the Slayer chassis. They're still searching for the Libram Necromechanika (sp?) to get into the real designs behind it. The Seether chassis has a known inventor as well, some dude who went crazy and I think was torn apart by the prototype. Helljacks are kind of dangerous to work on it seems.

>>52244426
so if I'm dropping the impaler, what do I put in?

>>52245179
alternatively, if the Bomber can be switched to a Blitzer should I keep the Impaler?

>>52244979
The only thing you have to put primed on doesn't want their armor reduced, and dwarfs with low defense and high armor dont especially need to ignore knockdown and ESPECIALLY already don't care about blast damage.

Ossrum was created to be the all-dwarf caster.

>>52239380
Jakes2 does good things for Ironclads, Hammersmiths, Centurions and Sword Knights, and can get a very efficient BG. Reach and E-Leap on flanking weaponmasters and Hammersmiths is a lot of fun.

>>52242370
The only real downside to it is a lack of reach and being somewhat focus hungry. I'd start with a Banshee and/or Imperatus with her but Manticores are good jacks all around.

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How terrible is my Retribution matchup?

And how does Jack Spam play into Wurmwood? Did Karchev ever struggle? Would Pathfinder make a difference?

WM/H MK3: The Stockholm Syndrome edition where all your symptoms are playable, "there is no other alternative", "game is more balanced than ever", "players are the cancer", "Press Gangers aren't needed anyway", "official forums were cancer", "your negativity is ruining my enjoyment", this game was 100% made for you.

>>52246683
TLDR: you don't play but you still wanna bitch about it all

>>52246683
>there is no other alternative
This is true, because most tabletop wargames are garbage with steep cost investments. PP being as active as it is is good.

>game is more balanced than ever
Well, it is. It isn't perfect, but it's not easy to balance 10+ different things. Just look at WoW, they've been trying to balance for over a decade.

>players are the cancer
Players are a cancer. This patient unfortunately has several different cancers.

>Press Gangers aren't needed anyway
You can blame the judge program and faggots over at Wizards for getting rid of Press Gangers; you cannot legally volunteer for free for a company and the point payment system was reminiscent of the judge foil program which was shut down for legal reasons. This is simply attempting to dodge a lawsuit, which would really kill the game.

>official forums were cancer
Official forums were about as good as /wmhg/. They were even staffed by janitors who did it for free! :^)

>your negativity is ruining my enjoyment
Not really. I just wish Guild Ball shitposters would go to their own dead and nonexistent general.

Has anyone here tried Forges of War with Helynna?

Losing the Sentinel brick sucks, but it seems like Deceleration + Helynna's feat + Shield Guard could make a line of warjacks almost impossible to kill with shooting.

>>52246683
>"there is no other alternative"

There are alternatives, Warmahordes is just better than them.

>"game is more balanced than ever"

Yes, that's correct.

>"players are the cancer"

Well, players like you probably are. It's good that you've left the game.

>"Press Gangers aren't needed anyway"

Never interacted with them in any capacity, so they can't have been that important. Sucks if you were one and took it seriously, I guess.

>"official forums were cancer"

See above.

>"your negativity is ruining my enjoyment"

Your negativity is making me hard, Cryxbabby.

>>52247196
"Yes, that's correct"
According to what? Where is the measurement of balance by which you make a stupid fucking claim like this? In my experience, everyone who says this ultimately turns out to be playing Cygnar, Ret or Khador. Not even Circle players have the complete lack of self-awareness needed to make this claim.

"it's good that you've left the game"
This is my favourite response. The game is all the better for bleeding players left and right. It'll be the fucking best when I have no-one left to play with at all. You won't believe how super balanced it'll be then.

>>52247617
I play Convergence, mainly into Protectorate Cygnar Khador and Skorne. I feel like it's pretty balanced, desu. It's a hard game, but that's mainly because I'm new. There hasn't been a single game that I've lost that I haven't been able to say that I couldn't have done something to stop myself from losing.

>>52247691
Just one extra question then - are you the same person who posted >>52247617 ?

>>52247617
TLDR: my netdeck shit doesn't work anymore, so I ragequit the game, and you should too

>>52247691

so you're new, but you're confident to say the game is the best balanced its ever been?

seems legit

in fact i've noticed most of the ardent defenders of this dying game are all new players. While the older players just quietly slip away to AoS, Malifaux, Infinity, Guildball and co.

>>52247920
LOL, nice try kid. If I was relying one someone else picking my lists, I'd also be playing Ret/Khador/Cygnar. I haven't quit the game, but I do see a game that's dying around me.

>>52248400
>kid
>crippling insecurity
>plays cryx bane spam and is asshurt it no work no more

>>52248455
Satyxis Raiders were the best Cryx unit in mk2 and still are, only people who either didn't play the game in mk2 or were really bad at it complain about banes.

>>52247617
>According to what?

Most people who play the game. Also, reality. The game is far more closely balanced than it was in MKII. If you think Cryx is anywhere the level of shit that was Minions, or even Khador or Ret, in MKII, you're delusional. FFS Cryx can still build highly competitive lists, their balance issues are internal.

>In my experience, everyone who says this ultimately turns out to be playing Cygnar, Ret or Khador.

Your experience is dumb dumb retarded. I play five factions, one of which is among those three - and two of which are apparently the factions hit hardest by the change.

>The game is all the better for bleeding players left and right.

Except the game isn't bleeding shit. Christ, I see people say this even when surrounded by new players, and all I can do is laugh at their stupidity.

>>52247617
>there are people this dense

Do you have a selective memory or something?

Do you not recall how completely without merit some factions were in the last edition? If you genuinely think the game is less balanced than it was then, you have brain problems.

>>52242889
Baldur and Bradigus also make the best damn wolds this side of the Mississippi!

>>52246683
Are you that guest faggot from lormahordes who wants to "take as many people as possible away from the game"? Fucking pathetic.

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>proxied Destruction Initiative
>now have several Galvanizers to paint for Axis

I can't wait to drink more tears, I just hope they're as delicious as Mk2 Legion.

how much would it cost for me to build a full list for this game? is it even worth it to do so, with all this "ded gaem" bullshit im seeing thrown around all over the internet?

>>52251244
A 75pts army would run about $150-200 depending on whats in it. The game is only as dead as your local community.

>>52251273

i guess im more curious if privateer press has made decisions that will irreparably harm the game more than if there are still people playing it. i dont want to invest money if the cascade of abandonment is starting or has already started.

>>52251307
All the people I've seen openly drop Warmahordes at my local shop were Cryx players, and quite vocal about it at that. And keep in mind that the internet is an awful place for judging the health of a game when all that really matters to you is your local area.

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>>52251307
It's mostly some faggots acting bitter on the internet. PP has made some unpopular decisions lately, however good or bad they actually were and a few people are very offended by them. I can understand them in part because PP is frankly shit at communication, but it's no excuse for the kind of hissyfit a few individuals are throwing.

If you want to get into the game, now is probably the best time to do so. The initial bullshit of the MK3 release is over, the game and community are recovering and the meta is as fluid as ever.

>>52251244
Buy second hand and this game is dirt cheap.

>>52247832
no, why would I be replying to myself?

>>52248310
I don't know what part of what I said implied that I think the game is the most balanced it's ever been. I think that, right now, most of my losses are largely caused by a skill gap and not so much an inherent benefit of playing one faction over another.

I can't comment on how balanced it was before I started playing; I have no idea. And I can't comment on how balanced it WILL be, because I'm not an oracle. But this, right now, feels pretty balanced, at least at the casual level. At the pro level, just like in every game, you see the most cost-effective, easy-to-play for what they do lists dominating the meta, but that's just how competitive scenes work.

>>52246683
(You)

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>>52251244
Don't listen to the doomsdayers, I'm sure a lot of them have also been saying 40k was on the way out for the past ten years.

Personally, i'm never at a loss of people to play with.

Buying second hand is a good option if you really want to just play, but if you want to get into the hobbyist side of it (which is definitely a huge part of the game for me and is very important in my eyes.)

Figure out what you want to play and buy from there. It's one of the cheapest games on the market and unless you're really, truly very poor you shouldn't have an issue buying whatever models you need to play.

>>52251307
>i guess im more curious if privateer press has made decisions that will irreparably harm the game

Most of PP's recent mistakes have been more damaging to the community than the game itself. MK3 had, and still has, some pretty glaring balance issues on release, and the faction balance is still way out of whack in some cases. But that's acceptable, since they've shown a willingness to try and fix it. What's getting under people's skin is the attitude PP has shown when challenged on their decisions - from lying and general shiftiness, to passive-aggression and condescension. Shutting down the Press Ganger scheme is understandable but hasn't earned them any favour, but castrating the forums just looks like a desperate attempt at silencing the growing dissent amongst the fanbase.

So the game, itself, isn't bad. It's not the holy mecca of balance some people would like to present it as, but it's not as skewed as a game like 40k is. The worrying thing is that, as someone who jumped ship from 40k years ago, it looks like PP are slowly going down the same road GW did.

>>52254373
This. My store lost 2 players to the guildball meme, but we have 4 Warma regulars more than before.

>>52254453
People are quitting warmahordes for guildball?

I think it's a fun little game, but theres not enough meat for it to be enjoyable if you don't have another game you're playing.

Is Scaverous cool? Im getting Venethrax and Erebus seems cool with him because of countercharge, but Erebus gets fancy shit with Scaverous and he looks neat.
I have Deneghra1/2, Gaspy2 and Egregore at the moment for casters.

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>>52246683

>>52254520
Yeah, same here. Guildball came and died before any of the locals could fully paint a team.

>>52254564
Personally, Scaverous is one of my favourite casters to play.

I wish he'd get more recognition. I never see anyone talk about him and the only thing I recall him doing in fluff is getting BTFO by Rahn. Scaverous2, Lich Lord Scaverous when? IIRC there's an opening right now.

This weekend big tournament in Cracow, Poland, 38 players.

Top10:
1. CoO
2. CoO
3. CoO
4. Cryx
5. Mercenaries
6. Mercenaries
7. PoM
8. Cygnar
9. CoO
10. Minions

Best CoC 11th (just one player)
Best LoE 14th
Best Trollbloods 16th (just one player)
Best Skorne 22nd (just one player)
Best Khador 23rd
Best RoS 26th

Results here:
http://www.tournykeeper.com/#/tournament/details/243

>>52255780
Any way to see lists?

>>52255780
>All that Circle
Y'all niggas need Menoth

>>52255899
1st place

Theme force: The Bones of Orboros
Baldur2 (Baldur the Stonesoul) -30
- Woldwrath 37
- Megalith 20
- Woldwyrd 9
- Woldwyrd 9
- Woldwyrd 9
Sentry Stone & Mannikins 5
Sentry Stone & Mannikins 5
Shifting Stones 3
Gallows Grove 2
Blackclad Wayfarer 0
Blackclad Wayfarer 0
Blackclad Stoneshaper 0
Blackclad Stoneshaper 3
Blackclad Stoneshaper 3
Objective: Stockpile
--------------------------------------------
Kaya2 (Kaya the Moonhunter & Laris) -24
- Laris 0
- Feral Warpwolf 18
- Loki 19
- Pureblood Warpwolf 17
- Warpwolf Stalker 19
- Druid Wilder 4
Sentry Stone & Mannikins 5
Sentry Stone & Mannikins 5
Shifting Stones 3
Blackclad Wayfarer 4
Blackclad Wayfarer 4
Swamp Gobber Chef 1
Objective: Fuel Cache

>>52255915
2nd place

Circle Orboros -
Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army
Arcane Wonder - Steamroller Objective
Krueger the Stormlord - WB: +27
- Loki - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19)
- Gorax Rager - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7)
- Megalith - PC: 20 (Battlegroup Points Used: 1)
- Pureblood Warpwolf - PC: 17
- Woldwyrd - PC: 9
- Woldwyrd - PC: 9
Gremlin Swarm - PC: 3
Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5
Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5
Shifting Stones - Leader & 2 Grunts: 3
Farrow Razorback Crew - Gunner & Grunt: 5

>>52255780

Nice to see Cryx seem to be doing alright. I've been picking them up after the local players have been selling their armies back to the score.

It's a shame that I need pretty much every character jack sans Deathjack though.

>>52255930
3rd place

Paweł ”Blady” Blados
Circle Orboros - Kromac
Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army
Kromac the Ravenous - WB: +26
- Kromac the Ravenous (BEAST FORM)
- Druid Wilder - PC: 4
- Loki - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19)
- Ghetorix - PC: 21 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7)
- Gorax Rager - PC: 7
- Pureblood Warpwolf - PC: 17
Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5
Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5
Shifting Stones - Leader & 2 Grunts: 3
Reeves of Orboros - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16
- Reeve of Orboros Chieftain & Standard - Chieftain & Standard: 4
Objective: Fuel Cache
Circle Orboros - Baldur
Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army
Baldur the Stonecleaver - WB: +31
- Loki - PC: 19
- Woldwrath - PC: 37 (Battlegroup Points Used: 31)
- Megalith - PC: 20
Bloodweaver Night Witch - PC: 4
Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5
Sentry Stone & Mannikins - Leader & 3 Grunts: 5
Tharn Bloodtrackers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16
Objective: Bunker

Only Circle matters.
The rest you can see at: http://www.tournykeeper.com/#/tournament/details/243 Just open 'View' for each player. Not sure whether you need to be registered there.

Overall it's a really great site that we use to keep run tournaments with, keep trach with them and stuff. You can easily access everything there since we started using it on October last year.

Would anyone here be butthurt if their opponent used the epic models of Saeryn or Rhyas as their prime versions?

Their old models are just so shitty.

>>52255780
>Circle sucks since una2 got nerfed
>cryx is unplayable trash
>MKIII balance is shit, PP is killing WMH
>game is dying because my local WMH group has system-ADD

My fucking sides

>>52255992
Oh, and a winrate for each faction since October is like this:
Convergence of Cyriss 68.42%
Mercenaries 62.86%
Circle of Orboros 62.26%
Protectorate of Menoth 58.77%
Cryx 58.33%
Minions 52.50%
Legion of Everblight 45.90%
Skorne 44.64%
Cygnar 42.67%
Khador 38.74%
Trollbloods 103 35.92%
Retribution of Scyrah 35.48%

>>52256005
In casual games you'll be fine, just make sure to tell your opponent.

In tournaments you'll need to ask the TO.

>>52255900
Menoth is a hack and probably an ogrun in disguise.

Morrow 4 lyfe.

>>52255473
Lich Lord Mortenebra took that opening.

>>52255780
>CoO

It's Circle Orboros not Circle of Orboros REEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>52256135
>Convergence of Orboros

>>52255780
I wonder what mercs were playing.

Probably Captain Damiano and Magnus the Warlord, but I would be so happy if someone made Thexus work. I think Thexus is super okay right now.

>>52256135
Circle orbOros, obviously.

>>52256265
5th place

Mercenary - Damian
Theme: The Kingmaker's Army
3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Armory - Steamroller Objective
Captain Damiano - WJ: +28
- Nomad - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
- Nomad - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
- Nomad - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
- Buccaneer - PC: 6
Kell Bailoch - PC: 0
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 0
Stannis Brocker - PC: 0
Dirty Meg - PC: 3
Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 11
Steelhead Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 11
Steelhead Heavy Cavalry - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18
Trencher Infantry - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16
- Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper - Officer & Standard: 5
THEME: The Kingmaker's Army
---
GENERATED : 03/04/2017 09:40:16
BUILD ID : 2037.17-02-13
War Room Army
Mercenary - Bartek
Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army
Bunker - Steamroller Objective
Captain Bartolo Montador - WJ: +26
- Galleon - PC: 39 (Battlegroup Points Used: 26)
- Nomad - PC: 11
- Nomad - PC: 11
- Talon - PC: 7
- Talon - PC: 7
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 5
Gobber Tinker - PC: 2
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress - PC: 4
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyana & Master Holt: 8
The Commodore Cannon & Crew - Commodore & 3 Crewmen: 7

>>52257052
6th place

Mercenary - Magnus2 v.1.1
Armory - Steamroller Objective
Magnus the Warlord - WJ: +28
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 4
- Galleon - PC: 39 (Battlegroup Points Used: 28)
- Gallant - PC: 17
- Nomad - PC: 11
- Talon - PC: 7
- Talon - PC: 7
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress - PC: 4
Gobber Tinker - PC: 2
Gobber Tinker - PC: 2
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
SPECIALISTS
Renegade - PC: 10
Nomad - PC: 11
Talon - PC: 7
Anastasia di Bray - PC: 3
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyana & Master Holt: 8
Mercenary - Ossrum v.1.1
Bunker - Steamroller Objective
General Ossrum - WJ: +28
- Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator - PC: 4
- Grundback Gunner - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
- Grundback Gunner - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
- Grundback Gunner - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
- Grundback Gunner - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
- Grundback Gunner - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4)
- Grundback Gunner - PC: 6
- Grundback Gunner - PC: 6
- Grundback Gunner - PC: 6
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios - PC: 7
Kell Bailoch - PC: 5
Anastasia di Bray - PC: 3
Horgenhold Artillery Corps - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 6
Horgenhold Artillery Corps - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 6
Horgenhold Forge Guard - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyana & Master Holt: 8
SPECIALISTS
Grundback Blaster - PC: 6
Grundback Blaster - PC: 6
Grundback Blaster - PC: 6
Grundback Blaster - PC: 6
Grundback Gunner - PC: 6
Taryn di la Rovissi, Llaelese Gun Mage - PC: 5
Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist - PC: 4

>>52256019
>Ret winrate in the bottom of the gutter even before Skorne buff
WOW PP IS RET JUST GOING TO STAY SHIT FOREVER? FIVE WHOLE MONTHS WITH NO BUFFS, IT'S LIKE THEY DON'T EVEN CARE ABOUT BALANCING THE GAME

YOU EVEN NERFED OSSYAN AND HE WAS TERRIBLE NOBODY EVEN USED HIM BEFORE

JEEZ JUST CONVERT ALL MY CASTERS INTO GUILDBALL MINIS WHY DON'T YOU BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THIS IS NEVER GETTING FIXED

>>52256019

I'm assuming this is only counting first place wins. It'd be interesting to see a top 3 version to see if anything changes.

>>52254407
Their attitude has been absolutely shit, and yes, that's the real problem. The core rules of the game are fine, and fun. The factions are where the real problems are, and why the people who claim "most balanced it has ever been" are full of shit.
BUT that is all fixable... the problem is that PP refuses to admit there's anything to fix. It took months and months of shouting for them to recognise there was a problem in Skorne ("Skorne is fine. The Rhinodon is fine" -- Soles), and now they say they will not take a similar look at any of the other problem factions. I count at least four factions that could use a look, and I suspect most of them would benefit from a review, even their darling baby Cygnar.

>>52258022
"I spent months working on Mk3.0 Hexeris1" - Soles

The only reason Hexxy1 wasn't the worst caster in the game was because Morghoul2 existed. At least in his niche he wasn't powerful. Morghoul2 was just always powerless.

>>52258022
Power Up is a huge problem with the core rules.

>>52258330
Fuck you, power up is fine. It's the only thing that makes running jacks worthwhile. It'd be worse Mk2 drudgery without it.

>>52258330

Mk2 jacks were so shit, they were just flat out worse warbeasts and can only compete if there was some crazy broken support for them.

>>52230782
>Why would a glimmer imp or cask imp give a shit about war?
It probably doesn't, but it's masters do. The random Grymkin are all creations of the Defiers and now that they're back and want to fuck shit up all the little things they put into the world are fighting for them

>>52258421
>>52258635
PP made them cheaper and better and doubled everyone's jack points, there was no reason to make them work for free too.

>>52259025
>The random Grymkin are all creations of the Defiers

I was under the impression this was only true of their Warbeasts. The various imps, freaks, and monsters that make up their infantry and solos are just inherent to Caen itself.

>>52208109
Does anyone have any site other than zippyshare for the new books? The site does not seem to want to work for me.

>>52259114
The warbeasts are the things that tortured the Defiers in Urcaen after Menoth chucked them in there. When the old Witch let them out they'd brought them with them in a 'my greatest fears give me power' kinda thing.

All the gremlins and things like that were created by them while they watched the world from Urcaen

>>52259030
The difference between warbeasts and warjacks was just too much in Mk2, to the point where making them cheaper and better just wasn't enough. Nigger I play Skorne and even I don't think that Power Up has made warjacks too good. It's a very strong rule, but that's it.

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I get that people don't like all of the concepts for these guys but some of them are really cool and even the sillier ones could have some cool models.

Are people just taking their toy solders too seriously? I've noticed this with more than one Warmahordes community

im coming back to the game after a long hiatus, is ret any good now or should i just stick with cygnar/khador?

>>52258022
>people who claim "most balanced it has ever been" are full of shit.

They're not though. Absolutely none of the factions are in the awful place Minions or Ret were before the new edition. Hell, none of them are as bad as Khador was.

I feel like there are a few things that need fixing. Cryx points costs could do with some looking at. Cygnar needs the Journeyman stifled because fucking hell is it obnoxious. A few casters need to go down a notch and a few need to go up a notch.

But compared to MKII, the game balance is in a far better place.

>>52259827
Ret are good now.

In fact, Ret are probably the most well tuned and balanced faction in the game now. Nothing they have is absolutely ballbustingly overpowered, but nearly everything they have has a use and they can mix it up competitively in the top tiers of play.

It's pretty good to be an elf player right now.

>>52259969

awesome. that leads me to my next question: what are some viable lists for them i can run? im having a tough time finding resources.

>>52259918
Journeyman is exactly the same as it was in mk2, but now it costs 8 points more to bring. Stop complaining about a simple armour buff in place for being assmad about stormlances.

>>52260043
Beyond the obvious 3x arcanists, the staple of the faction right now is Sentinels + UA and Discordia, which you play in basically every list except Rahn in theme.

MHSF (with UA) is still good (but not Mk2-levels of broken).

Banshee is still great.

Add all of those up, and you're only about 20 points short of a 75 point list.

Kaelyssa, Issyria, Rahn, Helyanna and Elara2 are all great.

>>52260218
Yeah, the Journeyman was *more* broken in Mk2, it just wasn't as obnoxious because Cygnar as a whole wasn't as strong.

I'm honestly shocked it survived the Mk3 transition with requiring a battlegroup being the only nerf it got.

But with Storm Lances and Centurions in the position they're in now and Cygnar being so strong in general, it's more of a problem now. Storm Lances are a problem. They'd be a lot less of a problem if junior had Fortify instead of Arcane Shield.

>>52260259

thank you so much. time to prepare the wallet for a pounding.

>>52260363
Also, June is our month for new releases, see the bottom of this page: http://www.thewarstore.com/PIPPRE.html?var=deliriumcg

But in general, most of the stuff you've got from Mk2 is probably still good, and even some of the formerly unexciting stuff like Heavy Rifle Teams are now great.

The battle engine is good now, too.

>>52260362
You're "shocked" the only nerf Jr got was becoming three times more expensive to bring? What were you expecting? That PP would break into peoples homes and melt down everyone's Journeyman into scrap pewter?

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>>52260594
Stop pretending being forced to take one of Cygnars awesome light jacks is somehow a nerf or that you weren't going to take those anyway.

You're embarrassing yourself.

>>52260594
Yeah, it wasn't nerfed enough -- and this is coming from a Cygnar player.

It's a mild annoyance. It's not like we don't have several lights that do plenty of work on a junior. I mean, yeah, I'm jealous of the Redeemer, but don't pretend that having to take a Firefly, Charger, or Grenadier on junior is anything resembling a reason to ever not take Arcane Shield on a stick.

While we're talking about Protectorate jealousy, fuck the Eye of Truth right in the ear.

I know I'd pay 4 points for Arcane Shield in Skorne. ARM25 Cetrati at all times with any caster? Hell fuckin' yes right there.

>>52256005
I would like to raise this point to Horgle; the only difference notable at 12 inches or more are his poses, since his weapons are practically the same and his armour changed little. I asked if running his journeyman as his caster and telling my opponent what I was doing would fly, and the answer was "no, they're too similar" but having them in lists isn't?

>>52260594
Well, they did that with the Mad Dog...

>>52260631
Well, in some cases they would rather have another light in their main battlegroup, since lots of Cygnar spells are relevant to battlegroups.

But yeah, having to a jack along with your broken Solo must be the worst thing in the world.

>>52260631
On nooooo, your Firefly that 90% of the time does nothing but run at the enemy and give your Stormlances a buff can't be in your main battlegroup, that suuuuuucks.

>>52263354
Not sure if you're just being an ass, but if you seriously think that's all a firefly does you either don't play Cygnar or you're a really shitty Cygnar player.

>>52261592
Pretty sure I can still play mine

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>>52262910
>lots of Cygnar spells are relevant to battlegroups

>>52260043
Essentially every Retribution warcaster is viable now, and the kind of list you want to play will vary depending on warcaster. Even Garryth is viable, though not a likely contender for top tier warcaster.

Issyria, Elara2, Ossyan, Rahn, Helynna, and Kaelyssa can all play in the big boy leagues. Thyron, Vyros1 and Vyros2 can all be extremely good. Ravyn and Garryth won't be winning any medals anytime soon but they're both playable in casual games.

We have no idea what Goreshade4 will be like in Ret, but he's ex-Cryx, so he's likely to be bretty good.

Battle College's Ret section is fairly up to date, try looking at that.

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>>52264420
>Even Garryth is via

I've had some pretty hilarious wins with Garryth recently, simply because people underestimate him and forget what exactly he can do. People are used to him being that joke of an assassin warcaster in Ret.

More often than not, they forget that he has Acrobatics now, and as such there's a 12.5" bubble of dead warnoun around him. People constantly forget that he gives pic related that same ability as well.

>>52264546
Post lists. I want to give the old guy a fair chance.

>>52264642
Honestly, a Garryth list is just a generic Retribution list with all the most self-sufficient models.

Sents+ Discordia package, which mostly delivers itself, with the Sents benefiting hugely from the extra 2" of Mirage. Battle Mages and Magisters are both good for the ability to push and pull models around. Whip Snap has obvious utility with him - the ability to extend Garryth's twelve inch threat range to a fourteen or sixteen inch one can be pretty significant. Moros with Garryth's bond presents another big, mostly unstoppable assassination vector that your opponent has to keep in mind (or, you know, forget and be cut to ribbons for it), but Banshees can be great with him for the ability to knock shit over. Arcanists are of course obligatory, as is Sylys, since Garryth usually spends half his small focus pool on upkeeps alone.

>>52264867
Oh and also, don't bother running him against high magic warcasters that can stay fourteen inches away from him at all times and not pay for it. Ironically, Garryth the mage hunter is better at killing meaty warrior types that need to stick close to their battle lines to make an impact.

And remember that Moros' gun is perfect for making something easy to kill. With Acrobatics he can easily hop over the enemy lines to get a clear shot of some priority target. He'll take hits, but if you're not retarded, he shouldn't die, and if he reduces something to DEF 5 so something else can mince it easily he's done his job.

>>52208109
Question: What size is the minimum point amount for you to have to fun with? I mean, at what point do you feel that the game really excels at what it's trying to do, and is the suggested game size. How many models does that usually consist of?

>>52265180
Battlebox games can certainly be fun, but generally speaking the higher up in points you go the more options each person has to choose from. The "standard" full army size is 75 points+WJ/WB points, with the secondary default being 50 points. Some armies can operate at numbers below 50 but 75 (with a few bonus points from a relevant theme) seems about right. Mk3 lists are a bit of a squeeze if you want to take solos and other support when compared with Mk2 due to how much of an army must be jacks and beasts now, but it's workable. A general rule however is the smaller the armies the less likely one or both players will be able to answer any particular strategy or skew.

>>52265180
The amount of models used tends to differ from faction to faction at 75 pnts, like you could have Ceph 60dudes vs Kraye 5cents feat. the DJ with both being full 75pnt armies.

>>52264642
There are a few options with Garryth and a few models that go well with him in particular. Here's an example of a list that has a lot of standard Ret staples with some caster-specific flare.
http://conflictchamber.com/#b51b18eP4E9v2V313ubCe1433y3y3y3M

Retribution Army - 75 / 75 points

(Garryth 1) Garryth, the Blade of Retribution [+29]
- Moros [11]
- Banshee [18]
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4]
Dawnguard Sentinels (max) [18]
- Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard [4]
- Soulless Escort (1) [1]
Arcantrik Force Generator [16]
Elara, Tyro of the Third Chamber [4]
- Discordia [18]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
House Shyeel Magister [4]

Elara on Disco is not necessary but can help the old man's focus burden and Speed of Death on a Brain Damage 10" Spray is money if you don't need an anti-blast bubble for your Sentinels. The AFG is a great Sentry target and helps set up assassination or dictate when the lines close.

>>52264420
>>52260259

so how viable would a helynna list with disco sentinels, a banshee, a hyperion, 3 arcanists, and lanyssa be?

>>52265431
>>52265497
So 75 points in the max? Huh. Well, in my current collection, I have this:
-Current Khador Battle Box
-Mad Dog Warjack
-Kazaky Elminators
-Manhunter
-5 Man O' Wars

Is this salvagable, or should I try and go in the opposite direction with what I have? The only thing I refuse to do is include Winter Guard, as I find their pricing and posing completely ridiculous. I also find the idea of using grunts instead of cool robots, power armor and Robots rather dumb. I believe what I have now is around 40 points or so, last time I checked, so what would you recommend to bring my list up to snuff for 75 point games.

Go to ground should really give immunity:electricity.

C'mon, PP :^)