Every so often, you make a tabletop gaming related purchase you

>>52169976
Fucking DnD 3.5.

>>52169976
> Buying Diversity Age
You had it coming

Anima. Really nice concept and world building. Shitty system no one wants to play...

>>52170956
I didn't actually buy it, I was just looking for a suitably triggering opening post image to draw attention.

File: qunari.jpg (78KB, 878x494px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 878x494px

>>52170956
Reminder

>>52169976
The 2nd edition of the Iron Kingdoms RPG. I love the setting to death and even had a few of the ancient books for when it was just a hack of DnD 3.5, but when PP updated the system, it turned out awful. It's a weird hybrid of RPG and their wargame, there aren't any social stats - in fact, everything is geared around combat. Playing a smart, thinky character doesn't give you loads of extra skills and things, it turns you into a battlefield tactician rather than a brawler. The art and setting information is nice, but not as nice as the stuff in the original books, and it's pretty awful as an actual game.

>>52170983
Your point being?

>>52170956
It wasn't "Diversity Age" until about 7 years after the tabletop game came out, and even then it only happened because of that one god-awful writer at BioWare who has zero ability to be subtle or clever about it.
Kids these days; they're younger then the last shit my cat took and yet think the only things of relevance happened within their retardedly brief lifetimes.

7th sea 2e.
Thought it to be more like 1e but with skill and battle system fixed at least to the level of L5R.
The only things that got better were wounds system and world map. The rest went straight to shit.

>>52170983
This wasn't as terrible as it could have been; we know so little about everyday Qunari life that it could have been true despite this being clearly aretroactive thing. The most we have "against" it was a single conversation Sten has with exactly one party member in DA:O. That's definitely enough for me to think it was a retcon, but not enough to be a massively discordant thing within the setting.

Now Tevinter suddenly being anti-gay DOES come completely out of left field since none of the other nations or games have any real prejudice or even noting that homosexuality for either gender is even unique enough to be remarked upon.
The explanation for it (that they were obsessed with ensuring each family line had an heir) is god-awful thin writing too thanks to SEVERAL succession and "needing an heir" disputes appearing all the way back since the first game and yet somehow none of these other nations gave a flying fuck about your sexual orientation; it was clearly a badly inserted plot about not trying to change your children if they're gay added in by a writer (and I strongly suspect I know who) who quite frankly had neither the skill to pull it off nor subtly to make it interesting.

>>52171018
The prevalence of gay people, if nothing else, is definitely the default of the fanbase and not the developers (or at least not the developers alone). If you'd actually visited the bioware forums or any similar place around the time of the games and ESPECIALLY the Mass Effect series you'll find that people always, always, ALWAYS super duper fixated on the romance aspects of things, always asking for it to be more in depth and for more options and more than anything asking for MORE GAY OPTIONS, EVERY CHARACTER SHOULD BE A GAY OPTION, WHY AREN'T THERE MORE GAY OPTIONS.

Yes, yes, I know (you) specifically didn't but (you) are not the entire fanbase or even the majority. No, not even your friends are or any other too tiny sample group you'll pick up as anecdotal evidence. The simple, undisputed fact is that by and large the bioware fanbase demanded more gays. And they got them.

Bioware just did what they realized would boost sales.

>>52170962
You sound like my best friend. He picked up the core book for Anima five or six years ago at a used bookstore, and when we all looked through it we decided nobody had time for that. He still suggests it every time we look to start a new game, and he gets shot down every time.

File: gaze_upon_the_final_form_of_tg.jpg (763KB, 2000x1560px) Image search: [Google]

763KB, 2000x1560px

Fucking Eoris Essence.

The thing reads like a non-native speaker wrote it and, while the art is amazing, the whole world is so complex that it's hard to get in any new players without shoving the book in their faces and wishing them luck. It actually looks like some fun once a group learns the game though.

>>52171078
Yes, we do know about qun. Through entire Origins, this is hammered into us:
> Your individuality and desires do not matter.
> You don't decide your place in life, Qun decides it
> You take it without question and perform your assigned role in society
> And you do it forever - you won't become a merchant if you were a farmer.

How did Qun become an LGBTQ+ religion full of transexuals? That's a good question, the answer to which is "The writers are hacks".

>>52171094
That's fair.
And honestly, I'm not adverse to stuff like that at all, I just hated how shitty the writing for it was. It wasn't handled well or with any finesse, though DA:I was a rather clumsy effort in a number of ways aside from that so perhaps it's unsurprising.

>>52171109
That would be Dragon Age 2, which is when the Qun religion was actually beginning to be described as the bizarre Islam-Confucianism-Buddhism fusion that it is. Sten's dialogues from Origins were SPECIFICALLY WRITTEN so as to provide as little useful knowledge as possible because the aim back then was to make the qunari be a sort of generic "exotic and mysterious people from far away". Nobody predicted it'd be so elaborated upon.

You cannot possibly have gathered that from them alone unless you're some kind of psychic.

>>52171030
Yeah, I wouldn't QUITE go as far as to say that I regret paying for it, because I paid like 40$ at the kickstarter and got literally several dozens full lengths books for it including all the 1st edition material (and if nothing else, the art is gorgeous), but after so many years of wishing for a second edition some aspects of it were definitely a little bit underwhelming.

>>52171131
Anon, I've replayed DAO three or four times. Do you want me to quote specific Sten dialogue? It's time-consuming, but I can do it.

File: aclassicblunder.png (48KB, 1344x174px) Image search: [Google]

48KB, 1344x174px

>>52170968

>>52170997
I think that's sort of the main draw of the game, right? I GM this game and people can get excited if you just run it like the combat game it was meant to be. I let my players talk out of most things if they want, but they're a mercenary group and they want to get paid.

>>52171109
You kinda missed what I said there, didn't you? My point was that if you squinted you could argue that nothing QUITE contradicted what we learned in DA:I about the Qun, but for a single conversation he had with Leliana and none of the other women in the party. Presumably you know the one I'm talking about.
But yeah you are correct; Gaider once explained outright that while the Qunari lands were not perfect utopias nor joyless hellholes (and in fact were rather boring for every day life folks much like every day life is boring for everyone) he admitted deliberately to making their way of life EXTREMELY restrictive.
He said you can change who you are and what you want to be (because if you are constantly at conflict with yourself you are not doing your job well and thus failing the Qun), but that it wasn't easy to do and most people never tried. In addition the gender restrictions were another way to show how rigid they were about certain things, clearly a way to show how their culture was imperfect like any culture, just in a different way.

Trying to make it a haven of equality is indeed against the grain of how he wrote them in the prior games, where it IS true that everyone was equal but only in the sense that they all had duties to the Qun and thus were equally worthless as individual people.

>>52171155
that anons crazy, must not have payed attention
all 4 things you said were pretty much the same thing said in a different way, and i remember sten pretty much saying something like one of those anytime the qun came up or whenever he thought something was stupid, or really anytime he talked about anything

>>52171131
David Gaider answered a LOT of questions about the Qunari well before DA:2 came out and it helped clarify many of Sten's statements, such as why they have no confectionaries.

But yes; thematically they're the "big tough guy" race every fantasy setting has, but he wrote their culture to be extremely alien to us deliberately.

>>52170983
>>52171078
>>52171109
>>52171184
>>52171202

As many often point out, Bull's real name literally means LIAR. Also, he says 'this is what Krem would be called'

At no point does he say "Krem would also not be put into a pit and stoned to death"

In any case, it actually makes sense to me the Qun would have an attitude like this. Sten cannot into women being warriors because, no, women are not warriors. If that woman wants to give up being a woman and become a man, then yes, it is fine they become a warrior. Because they are not a woman anymore, they are a man. And should expect to be treated exactly like one.

>>52171078
I always thought it was just that one dudes father that was anti-gay. When you consider Tevinter is basically Rome, them being anti-gay makes sense, sort of. Rome was VERY anti-gay. They just had different... interpretations of what being Gay meant.

Fucking another dude was not gay. BEING fucked by another dude WAS gay and was abhorent. The only thing gayer than that was eating pussy, which was the gayest thing you could do.

>>52171030
I don't normally jump on the "SJWs are ruining our games" bandwagon but 7th Sea 2nd ed was one of those few times when I had a hard time ignoring some of that stuff. It's less about the extent of the inclusion and more about the crudeness of it. Some parts feel pretty natural (I mean, the setting was always more gender equal than our own world's 17th century, all the way back to 1st ed) but many of them were clearly made in a sort of bored, mechanical find+replace like mindset like the ratio of female to male NPCs can somehow by itself make a setting more progressive. Hell, some of it seems to have been treated so automatically the EDITING fucked it up (the best example I can think of is Captain Reis, which is still described in the fiction as a man but which the new Pirate Nations books decided out of the blue is now actually a woman).

Speaking of the Pirate Nations books, am I the only one feeling that they went slightly overboard with this trend? I mean, Allende is a woman now, Reis is a woman, the new leader of the BoTC is a woman, all three of her lieutenants are women... It gets into a kind of ironic full circle where you begin wishing you'd finally read about a male pirate for a change just to break the stereotype...

Oh, that in Master Red, from the Vesten League council. That he was turned into a woman doesn't bother me, what does is that it was so very clearly done as a sort of asspulled fan appeaser. FYI, Master Red was repeatedly described in the 1st edition as an ugly, perverted, horrifically dull old man. Turning him into a lady would've been fine, but they also had to state that this "Mistress Red" is a confidant, charismatic, powerful woman...

One final tiny gripe I have with the whole trend (but in fairness, that was prevalent in the 1st edition as well): I can't create a good Thean equivalent of Julie D'Aubigny, one of history's greatest swashbucklers, because much of her charm goes away in a world where gender equality is the norm.

>>52171251
Pretty much. I actually read both editions of Blue Rose and believe it or not, they treat the issue with more finesse than the new 7th Sea. It might be a game that markets itself on being feminist fantasy but at least it understands that there's more to even *trying* to be progressive than just randomly pointing at a bunch of iconic NPCs and going "Okay, you, you, you and you are now women, you and you are black, you're gay, NEXT".

>>52171152
Yeah, buying all 1e books instead of pirating them is worth 40 bucks. But I went as far as preordering a hardcover. At least art is good.

>>52171251
You would probably hate me. I find gender and sexuality so fucking irrelivant to a character when I design a campaign NPC, I decide who they are and what they are first. Then I decide their gender with a 1d2. Then I decide their sexual orientation with a d8 (1-7 for Kinsley 0-6, 8 is Asexual). Gender fluid doesn't exist because fuck you magic people can just reassign when they want with gender change so it's even less relevant.

>>52171222
I can accept it despite thinking it's a retcon because the only evidence we have against it is the single convo with Sten and all prior warrior qunari being male, which is somewhat poor evidence considering all Warrior qunari in both games looked EXACTLY THE SAME as each other, first looking all identical to Sten right down to his Roman nose, then looking all identical right down to the paint pattern on their bodies. The Arishok was the sole exception.

I was aware of the Roman thing, but the dialogue you have with Dorian suggests that his views are quite common in Tevinter, that you could be gay as long as you kept it quiet and married a woman anyway.
Compare to Orlais where the fact that Empress Celene was fucking Briala was not scandalous because they were both women but because Briala was an ELF.

>>52171301
That's because the Olesians were and are fucking degenerate filth and this is why everyone hates them. St. Louis spins in his grave like a drill

>>52171096
I really went deep into that game. Got 2 other books for it too and the card game (which we play sometimes). I could only get one group to play it but given the complexity this system has I had one condition: know your spells/abilities. Sadly that was too much and the game turned into constantly searching the books.
Sometimes I read it for inspiration but I have the pdf-s for that..

>>52171299
Not him, but that's fine with me. If you want to play your games as super happy everyone is equal land that's fine by me, and it makes a lot of sense too. I think what he's objecting to is just hamfistedly switching up existing characters to try to match some kind of minimum 'quota' required to be seen as progressive.

>>52169976

FantasyCraft, I was promised a fixed 3.5... It's still the same garbage with clearer rules on building stuff.

Michtim: Fuzzy Adventures. Hamtaro meets David the Gnome. Sounds like a fun side game. Tranny hamsters EVERYWHERE! Euro inclusivity is almost as bad as burger inclusivity.

Fantaji. It's just Fate. With prettier art.

>>52171337
That's a legitimate concern. Especially considering DA was originally billed as 'gritty' fantasy, trying to be GoT before GoT was a super megahit.

Remember, 'this is the new shit'

>>52171251
I kept the male Reis (I used the updated setting with extensive house rules) since they talked about him being a man right there in the core book. Gave him a first name too, which as far as I know was missing from 1e 7th Sea.
But in the defense of the SJW invasion....Wick doesn't give a fuck.
He's not a warrior for anything and clearly has never fought for anything that doesn't involve his fucking ego.
Having met the man in person twice and been GMed by him both times and read his shit extensively, so can safely say that he's on the equality train because he thinks it'll win points and sell shit.

So I just ignore shit I thing makes no sense and retcon all over his setting just like I always did with everything that he helped write that I ever played.

>>52171251
You see that strange reverse attitude in Bubblegumshoe. I don't know why it stood out to me so much but they have a page where they describe the 4 iconic characters that are used for examples throughout the book and, like, I don't care none of them is white or that there are more girls than boys or whatever, what bothered me was that each one got MAYBE 3 lines worth of description and in all cases half of them were taken up with just describing the character's race and sexuality. In what kind of bizarro world is implying that someone's color is every bit as definitive of their personality AS THEIR ACTUAL PERSONALITY less racist than ignoring it?

(I suppose you could also make that /pol/ bingo accusation that "if you feel the need to mention characters' sexualities and colors that means you're actually not truly progressive yourself because you're subconsciously still thinking that the default person is a white male! Huh!", but that's a depth I try not to sink to)

>>52169976
Any non-pdf I've bought.
It's just a waste of money.

>>52171353
>Having met the man in person twice and been GMed by him both times
Wow...uh...that must have been special.

>>52171340
Ahh Fantasy Craft... I'm glad I only tried with a pdf version. It was okay for a few sessions, the magic of the new system but we quickly abandoned it

>>52171370
I won't glorify him in any way by saying he was the worst GM I've ever suffered under, because he definitely wasn't.
He was still a pretty fucking bad one though.

>>52171315
Riordan was pretty cool at least.
So was Michael de Chevin.
I kinda wished there was another cool Orlesian in DA:I to help combat the intensely negative image most of the games have given them.

>>52171400
Fantasy fiction outside of France (hell, most fantasy fiction IN France) hates the French. From this thread alone, consider 7th Sea's Montaigne, Dragon Age's Orlais and for that matter Warhammer's Bretonnia. The fantasy French can't get a break.

>>52171094
To be fair, that might have had more to do with the fact that Jennifer Hale was a superior voice actor to meet, but fem Shep got continually shafted in terms of romances

>>52171400
>I kinda wished there was another cool Orlesian in DA:I

Blackwall

File: IMG_4416.png (1MB, 1600x900px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1600x900px

>>52171429
Clearly.
>>52171461
It doesn't count if he sounds like he comes from Birmingham dammit.
Also, he is like...stupid good-looking under that beard.

>>52171282
I guess this can be described as "token majority". When most of notable characters in, say, Avalon are strong independant apachegender-to-female lesbians from NotPolynesia it just becomes boring and annoying.

>>52171490
Jesus fuck. Does he ever look like that in-game? I never saw that.

>>52171490
>>52171502
HE TAKES OFF THE BEARD!? WHEN DOES HE TAKE OFF THE BEARD!?

Suddenly Blackwall romance is even BETTER idea

Mind you, >taking off the beard

fags

>>52171337
>. I think what he's objecting to is just hamfistedly switching up existing characters to try to match some kind of minimum 'quota' required to be seen as progressive.
To be fair, da:I was just hamfistedly switching up characters period. They turned bann Teagan into the designated bad guy

>>52171502
Not precisely. Apparently that's his face texture underneath his beard in-game, but you can't in any way get him to shave the beard off. This is a fan mod that "erases" the beard texture for his face and then touches up the skin underneath to look more realistic (the stubble, the coloring), but otherwise those are indeed his facial features.

I gotta admit, him growing it makes a lot more sense; he looks COMPLETELY different without it.

>>52171514
Nope, it's a fan mod that "shaves" him but otherwise keeps the skin texture and facial features he has in-game.
Blackwell looks like a 38-year-old dad, but Thom Rainier was REALLY fucking good-looking apparently.

>>52171548
it's called a dilf, anon. Bioware missed a trick. Chicks *dig* the dilf.

>>52169976

By complete coincidence, there's another thread up at the moment that opens with a pic of it >>52170648.

To be fair, I knew very well The Anime Hack was going to suck balls. Normally I'd never have considered wasting money on that shit but morbid curiosity simply got the better of me and nobody would share it on any site, probably because nobody other than me was stupid enough to buy the file.

I don't know if it's a "disappointment" when you're expecting a clusterfuck but BOY HOWDY do I regret wasting money on that thing. You might think that 2.99$ is a fair price for 46 pages of content almost regardless of shittinness but Jesus, you have no idea.

>>52171523
Teagan didn't seem bad; his fears kinda ARE justified. In the first game you were fighting directly for Fereldan and he himself mentions fighting Orlais before.
He's not good or bad, he's just a patriot who does what he thinks is best for Fereldan and politically the Inquisition IS kind of sketchy as hell in some ways.

The main issue I have is how he physically looks completely different. He could be any random Fereldan NPC and without the voice I'd never know the goddamn difference.

>>52171548
See >>52171523
No wonder nobody in orlais recognized him. Especially if the want to see a grey Warden

Speaking of hamfistedly destroying characters, how about the damage done to the entire Warden order?

>>52171599
Eh

The Wardens were always sketchy, remember the reason there are so few of them is they got their shit slapped by the other nations once.

>>52171633
Yeah, people keep forgetting that for most of the population of the Dragon Age universe the Wardens are a mystery wrapped in an enigma. It just so happened that Dragon Age: Origins was all about them so we take it for granted that they're heroic and justified in their actions and all that, but that's NOT common knowledge.

>>52171599
It was EXTREMELY clear that sometime during writing someone asked;
>"Wait a minute...Taint and an ancient Darkspawn? Wouldn't the Wardens be all over this shit?"
>"......fuck. You're right. We gotta fix that."
And thus suddenly the Wardens are all bad guys according to everyone in-game to remove them from the picture.
Though it seems to me less that "Grey Wardens are bad" and more "Orlesians make poor decisions"; only the Orlesian part of the order (which isn't even the fucking majority) got involved in that blood magic shite, and like every other Orlesian political group in that game they are pants on head retarded about everything. Even that Tevinter guy points out how incredibly vague and shady his deal was and how stupid they were to just JUMP on without questioning it at all.

It's pretty damn clear to me that Gaider left Bioware due to all the interference with his writing; Dragon Age was his baby, and after years of conversing heavily with fans about it and answering questions he bails in Bioware literally as soon as he is done with DA:I, which in what I am sure is totally unrelated butchers everything else he wrote about the setting and ignores half of his writing for expediency's sake.

>>52171633
Sketchy? Absolutely. Murder happy little motherfuckers to the last.
Da:I wardens weren't sketchy, they were dumb. Which is very different. They were more similar to the not-wardens from the case than the wardens themselves

>>52171633, >>52171657
In the books the Wardens do a lot of sketchy shit, it's true.
It's more that they all begin suddenly acting like dithering retards and that literally every NPC in the game suddenly has SUPER strong opinions on how Wardens are bad and cause problems despite knowing next to nothing about them until DA:I since they kept all that shit secret.

Like Varric claiming "he'd met some good Wardens, but a lot more bad ones". He's met FOUR fucking Wardens! Four! Five if Carver's around and you had him join!

>>52171282
I wouldn't call Blue Rose a "hidden gem", but I'd definitely go as far as to call it a "hidden actually-kinda-nice-looking-quartz-shard-you-found-on-the-beach". It's not spectacularly amazing but for how utterly horrible you expect it to be, it's really very okay if read with an open mind. Like you say, it's very unexpectedly subtle for being "The Feminist Fantasy RPG". You expect the mother of all SJW bombs but it's really very well thought out compared to, say, some of the newer stuff from Onyx Path.

>>52171735
I was about to say something about "if the best thing you can say about a game is that it's okay", but I suppose in this case that might be the point...

>>52171172
This. IK makes no bones about being a game focused on combat, and lets you build different kinds of characters who can still contribute to the main thrust of the game.

>>52171700
Exactly.
Wardens were always portrayed as morally ambiguous, but it's how they are suddenly retarded and suddenly everyone knows everything about them and holding strong opinions in it after two games of them keeping shit secret is kind of jarring and handwavy.

>>52171762
Exactly. It's not that Blue Rose is great when you expect it to be average, its that it's average when you expect it to be shit.

>>52171732
And sera (cute collective groaning) who a) meet the hero of ferelden b) was fucking in denerim dislikes the wardens. What the actual fuck?

>>52171813
I fucking know.
It was even worse for me because said Warden WAS A GODDAMN CITY ELF.

>>52171826
That's even stupider when you consider that not only would Sera have met the Warden, she likely would have at least known of him for years since the Alienage is not a very large community.

>>52171843
Considering how that city elf has little patience for retards she probably really did met him/her. Not that it was pleasant for Sera.

>>52171429
>Bretonnia

They are the best human nation, though. The Empire is a pit of snakes, Tilea and Estalia are nonentities, but Bretonnia is at least a heroic place. Life is shit for peasants, but the knights are in general more shining (if fanatical and feudal) than their counterparts.

>>52171901
Are you high? Or do you live in opposite land?

The Empire boasts a high standard of living and relative stability. Brettonia is a shithole to live in unless your one of the shithead nobles.

>>52171866
I enjoyed playing the City Elf Warden as "the World's Angriest Elf".
>Kidnap my cousin and fiancée? I'll murder your entire household, kill every guard in your palace and then murder you and your friends.
>Human king? Tell him to fuck off because two months ago you murdered an Arl's son.
>"What do you MEAN 'you people'?" is my first response to EVERY question I am asked.

>>52171977
This largely depends on what editon you're talking about, actually.
Kinda bounced around a lot as different things were said by different writers.

>>52171977
>>52171977
>high standard of living

A shitty life in a crap forest where you get eaten by beastmen, or a shit life in a crap town where you get murdered by cultists

>stability
Aside from all the constant civil wars and infighting between the dozens of factions. The hallmark of the Empire is literally that it's an unstable and constantly changing coalition barely held together. Bretonnia's way more politically stable.

I pointed out that life sucks for peasants, but it's no better for poor people in the Empire. Peasants in Bretonnia live poor and ignorant, but at least odds are good that if an orc band starts fucking up the area some knights will come to stop them, if only for their own personal glory.

>>52172078
You need to lay off that chivalrois kool-aid. Cities in thr Empire are bad because all god damn cities in the world were terrible before the 20th century. Most places in the empire are fine, unless you live next to fucking Silvania or deep in the dark forest or some shit. And you are allowed to build your own fucking walls and own weapons there.

>>52171813
Say what you want about Sera, and holy fuck we do, but she has one virtue. She isn't Vivienne. It's annoying how you have the option to boot Sera for being a self serving trouble maker but in the dialogue she at least get along with at least more than half of your companions. Vivienne's entire dialogue consists of verbally shitting on every one of your associates.

And the worst of it is that despite her over inflated opinion of herself she isn't anywhere near as irreplaceable as she believes.

Fiona is a more legitimate Grand Enchanter than she is.
Either Lilliana or Casandra make better Divines than she does.
Solas and Morigan know more about weird shit than she does.
Dorian knows at least as much about classical magic as she does
Lilliana, Varric and even Sera have more useful contacts than she has
Cullen, Casandra and Iron Bull are better at fucking up renegade mages
Cole and Solas know more about demons

It's especially galling for the Personal Quest that all the characters have. They all make requests, give explanations and ultimately shit gets done in a manner as between professionals and friends.

She tries to give you orders and then acts snooty when you ask questions about the job.

>>52172470
Vivienne is the only thing keeping me from having a proper Dragon Age Tapestry on the website. Turns out that "finished her personal quest" and "didn't become close friends" aren't compatible choices. Holy fuck, did they even test that shit? Did at no point it occur to them that someone might be the kind of completionist who fulfills all quests as a matter of course but still fails to fulfill the absurd requirements of getting her to like you (i.e. not being quite groveling ENOUGH when it comes to wholeheartedly and slavishly agreeing with every last single tiny retarded thing that comes out of her mouth?)

>>52172470
Vivienne is a strong, conservative role model, anon. She's my favourite character in the game.

>>52172524
Each to their own I suppose.

But keep in mind that every one of her accomplishments at court was achieved by sucking duke dick and years of backstabbery.

Then along comes Morigan. Morigan gets to exactly where Vivienne was in a fraction of the time, with much less back stabbing and without whoring herself out.

>>52172581
Morrigan gets to where she is because she's a fan favourite, and she doesn't have to make sense. Same as Tali going from a nobody to an admiral.

>>52171429
It really doesn't help that fantasy tends to be written by englaboos who think the Scarlet Pimpernel was awesome.

Fuck that salty old polish aristocratic cunt.

>>52172470
I like it because she demonstrates all the limitations of the tower education system.

>>52172470, >>52172501, >>52172581
Solas gives her the best verbal shut down of in the entire game.

>Vivienne: So, an apostate?
>Solas: That is correct, Enchanter. I did not train in your Circle.
>Vivienne: Well, dear, I hope you can take care of yourself, should we encounter anything outside your experience.
>Solas: I will try, in my own fumbling way, to learn from how you helped seal the rifts at Haven.
>Solas: Ah, wait. My memory misleads me. You were not there.

>>52172634
Ironically, I think one of the biggest reasons Solas dislikes her is because she reminds him of himself when he was younger; intelligent, arrogant, and 100% absolutely sure that she knows what is best for absolutely everyone.
Hell, we even know he played politics once like she does now based on his comments at the Winter Palace.

>>52172634
>Solas: Your position in the Orlesian court must be frustrating, Enchanter.
>Vivienne: Darling, I have no idea what you might be implying.
>Solas: With your magic you are kept at arm's length, never able to play the Game to its fullest. Some part of you must always wonder if you could have gone farther had you not been a mage.
>Vivienne: Don't be absurd. Without magic, I doubt the Orlesian court would have interest in me at all.
>Solas: That must rankle as well.

>>52172634
>>52172692
>>52172704
Solas is fucking based and is the best 'wise wizard advisor' i've seen in a while.

Shame about THE ENDING

>>52172732
I actually liked it. It seems to come out of the blue but if you play the game a second time the sheer amount of foreshadowing that Solas is Fen'Harel is "how the hell didn't I see it coming?" incredible.

>>52172732
What's best is that he's basically "Mysterious Wizard Person", but he pulls it off SO well that you don't even realize how mysterious he is until you think about how fucking vague his answers to absolutely everything he knows are.
>>52172772
>"All New, Faded For Her".
I fucking KNEW when I saw that goddamn title there was something I couldn't put my finger on. The wording was much, MUCH too deliberate.
Yeah, pretty much EVERYTHING Solas says, especially in party dialogue, takes on a different context in the game once you replay it.
To his credit, I don't think anything he actually tells you is a lie. He just leaves out some very important contextual bits.

>>52172811
>Yeah, pretty much EVERYTHING Solas says, especially in party dialogue, takes on a different context in the game once you replay it.

The mental chess game with Bull.
That alone is so full of double-meanings that it's almost ridiculous. David Gaider wrote ALL of his dialogue, and it shows.

>>52172772
Yeah, Solas is one of the strongest characters Bioware wrote recently. He's got a very complex, multifaceted personality and an enticing background, combined with fun dialogue and an engaging plot. I know some people were frustrated that they romanced him and he still wouldn't change his mind in Trespasser, but in a way it makes a lot of sense. Dude's a highly intelligent, incredibly motivated immortal. He spent the past several MILLENNIA being driven by this cause, do you seriously think you could make an argument to him he hasn't already considered? Or that you could change his mind just by being friends with him for what feels to him like the blink of an eye? It's a nice subversion of BioWare's usual "you can solve all your teammate's lifelong personal issues with three dialogues and a quest".

The only character I liked better in those regards was Mordin Solus from Mass Effect, and he had the added appeal of an excellent voice actor.

>>52172839
Oh, get this; he's not immortal at all.
Gaider when asked about Solas' Age said he was thirty-eight years old.
After the plot twist became common knowledge, then asked how old he was again and he STILL said "thirty-eight years old".
It puts his rebellious behavior in the past into context; he was basically this highly intelligent young Turk who thought he knew what was best for everybody in a culture ruled by people so close to being immortal that it made no practical difference.

>>52172877
I think what he meant by that was SOLAS was 38.

The Dread Wolf is obviously far older

>>52172839
>He spent the past several MILLENNIA being driven by this cause, do you seriously think you could make an argument to him he hasn't already considered? Or that you could change his mind just by being friends with him for what feels to him like the blink of an eye?

I think it's also some denial in his part.
If he admits that there might be another way then EVERYTHING he has EVER done in the name of his cause (some of which he quite clearly regrets doing) is, in his eyes, a lie.
He also has difficulty admitting when he MIGHT be wrong despite what an open mind he has; when you make Cole more "human" rather then spirit, he basically is totally flabbergasted and disbelieving that such a thing is possible (which he told you about repeatedly during the questline) and wonders how it could happen.

Think about it; a Spirit of Mercy, a creature literally BORN out of the Fade chooses to live free of the Fade...and it completely works and he's more stable then before.
That slaps his idea that "everything will be better once I get rid of the Veil" idea right in the face.

>>52172907
Dread Wolf isn't a god, and his name actually IS Solas. He clarifies this himself.
Dread Wolf was basically a nickname everyone ELSE gave to him as he basically led a rebellion against the established social order of his land. Eventually he owns the name, but he's not "Dread Wolf" and isn't an immortal god-kind, hence his very verbal distaste for even the idea of immortal god-kings.

>>52171172
>>52171771

I guess. Combat is usually a very small part of the games I run and play in - maybe 80% of each session is investigation, exploration, social stuff, that sort of thing, which is why IKRPG2e ended up disappointing me.

>>52172971
>"I find the idea of a god that does NOT feel the need to prove his power rather comforting, actually."

His view on The Maker.
Doesn't believe, but likes the idea because it's basically the opposite of what the "gods" he knew were like; people like Corypheus basically.

>>52172971
That combined with his reasons (HER) apparently suggest he led something of a peasant revolt.

>>52173007
I think it was more like "slave" revolt, but yeah, basically.
My theory is that he personally knew (and was in love with) one of Mythal's avatars (which is the ONLY one of the Evenuris he seems to not hate on) and when Mythal tried to better the lives of the slaves the others killed her.

>>52172832
What was about the chess game?
I couldn't follow the moves.

>>52173140
During the game with Bull, he basically sacrifices every single piece of value with bold moves while quietly maneuvering his Bishop into place for a check that he keeps baiting Bull into doing. The Bishop piece is called the MAGE in Thedas.
So basically what he does is sacrifice everything while everyone focuses on big obvious threats and dangers while quietly moving a single piece by placing it in the thick of danger but direction attention away from him to more obvious threats and targets right up until he gets what he wants. This is almost EXACTLY what he does with you and the Inquisition during the entire game.

>>52173195
Best part is, even in Tresspasser he is STILL doing it.
You stumble onto the Qunari plot because he basically tricks them into revealing their hand early and specifically to you, knowing that you'll go after the threat (which is also a threat to HIS plans) and destroy it.
All without definitively revealing that he exists and exposing himself to danger. Hell, you don't even find out it's him doing it until right at the end.

And when you ask him what his plan is?
>"Nah dude, you figured out how to stop Corypheus with WAY less info then I gave you just now, so you aren't getting shit out of me. Sorry man."

File: kobayashi - 02.jpg (26KB, 400x234px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 400x234px

My copy of Cthulutech is an art book with too much text.

>>52173363
CTech is one of those games where I love the idea of the system, but it didn't come together right and in play it's an overcomplicated mess.

Also they stole all the metaplot from animes (like straight-up Guyver with only name changes) which is both infuriating and somehow adorable in it's sheet audacity.

>>52171105

To be fair I think the whole shebang is based out of columbia or somewhere else in south america.

Also, you know how everyone has their D&D knockoff fantasy heartbreakers? Thanks to Eoris Essence I now know what an Exalted heartbreaker looks like.

Also that rulebook. My god that rulebook. I never thought I would see the day where I would pine for the concise indexing and straightforward layout of third edition shadowrun.

File: 16463465_1521852277826902_7160559576974621952_o.jpg (102KB, 1200x533px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 1200x533px

Getting into infinity was a mistake

>>52173604
Isn't that the point, though?

>>52174123
There's so much you could do with 'cyberpunk Cthulhu' though, it's a shame that all they did was copypaste their Crunchyroll history.

>>52174532
I'm fairly sure there are already cyberpunk cthulhu games over there. CthulhuTech isn't exactly coy about its anime inspirations. It's very much intentional.

>>52169976
A hardcover of Storm King's Thunder. Not because it was bad, mind you, but because it was stolen from me with my computer bag and set of original dice. If I find out whoever stole that bag, someone is going to die.

>>52170933
Here's your (You).

>>52174547
You can do anime without doing literally real anime plots with the numbers filed off.

>>52173789

Fuck off back to 40gay general

>>52173789
Your expectations were slightly unrealistic.

>>52175793
>getting a good game is considered unrealistic expectations nowadays
Truly these are dark times

>>52169976
I was just talking about this yesterday
What a coinky dink

>>52170956
Origins was tits
Mainly due to the actual Origins imho

>>52173710
>where I would pine for the concise indexing and straightforward layout of third edition shadowrun.
is the editing worse than 5e SR?

>>52171450
I will say Mark was a handsome man and perfect face for Male shep

>>52169976
I bought the new edition of Space 1889 on impulse. A week later it pops up on the Bundle of Holding site.

File: ScreenshotWin32_0011_Final.png (2MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1920x1080px

>>52172839
>tfw had to choose between Mordin and the Krogan
>tfw always chose the Krogan with a tear in my eye
RenShep couldn't screw over his buddy Wrex like that, and it's what Mordin wanted.

>>52173195
>>52173306
Daaaayum. It's a good thing I'm not done with DA:I, even though I've finished my epic mage PC trilogy (pic related, and I didn't actually play all of 2, sue me). I'll have to keep my eyes peeled next play through as a qunari warrior.

Also loved the songs that your loyal minstrel was sang in Trespasser. I think it's safe to say DA:I is not one of my regretted games, though.

>>52183421
>didn't finish best game
>didn't finish game most relevant to mages

You are found wanting

>>52171450
Hale was only better the better voice for the paragon options. MaleShep was much better at not sounding like a bitchy teen when going renegade.

>>52172016
This is literally the best playthrough. I did this as well, to the extent that I even avoided all the romance because by god I'm gonna try and hook up with my hot elven wife when this is all over.

>>52171301
Not just that she was an elf, that she was an elf and was influencing Celene's policies by capitalising, knowingly or not, on Celene's elf fetish.

>>52171400
Gaspard. He's an ass at times, but he's a strong leader and what Orlais needs, not the cuddlehappy shit Celene pulls off.

>>52171340
I'd play Fantasycraft over any other 3.x any day

>>52185551
I romanced Morrigan still, but being so angry all the time was so goddamn funny. I was even angry at the Dalish and their preachy bullshit.
>>52186061
Briala did indeed love Celene.
Doesn't mean they didn't manipulate each other.
>>52186083
Gaspard actually isn't so bad because it's pretty clear the most stereotypical things about Orlais are the things he hates most about Orlais.
That doesn't mean he'd be a good ruler though; maybe if he were a Ferelden, but his ending shows that you can't just change an entire culture by being bullheaded, even if you're trying to change the silliest parts about it.
Celene is a decent ruler because she knows HOW to rule coupled with the desire to actually do it well rather then simply secure any and all routes of power to herself first and foremost.

Her novel is actually pretty interesting because she combines an idealistic worldview (she genuinely wants to make life better for everyone) with a willingness to do the cruel things a ruler must sometimes do to get her job done and those parts of her are frequently in conflict, as shown by her relationship with Michael de Chevin and Briala.

>>52181126
I feel you, man. Shit like that happened to me way too often.

>>52170983
Jesus tap dancing christ. I didn't know about this one. Damn it.

>>52172997

Which is Ironic, given that 'The Maker' is probably just another way of referring to one of the ancient Tevinter/Darkspawn Trimvate. The ones we know of are 'The Conductor' and 'The Architect', 'The Maker' would fit right in.

>>52188468
Is there any actual evidence for that?

>>52191271
No, but it's a workable idea. Darkspawn are behind everything.

>>52170983

Yeah I didn't have to go far to see this.

Bioware has gone to the dogs since the original 3 founders were forced out by EA. They're just eroding all their franchisees now.

When you boil it down Dragon Age only had 1 good game, eventually you just have to come to the conclusion that the series is actually shit but the first one was probably the best RPG on that generation of consoles.

>>52170983
That image looks like a LARPing convention.

>>52194381
You know, I actually really enjoy the -concept- of Dragon Age 2. An RPG about you and a sizeable collection of companions building experience, resources, contacts and prestige in one single city over a long period of time? Sign me the fuck up. Hell, I'd play that campaign as a PnP game if anyone would run it.

And then the execution was mediocre and the RPG elements exclusively about combat. Mind you, I'm a little surprised how everyone piled on the recycled areas when Mass Effect 1 was just as big an offender in that department.

>>52197044
Same. Even if the game was confined to just one city, it could still be great - there's so much potential there. I would love Kirkwall, if it actually changed depending on your choices, if it looked good, if it was alive. But it wasn't.
Like, imagine if once Hawke becomes rich, he could invest into the city. Help mages escape from the city, or fund templars, so they could cleanse the city from blood mages. Bulldoze over Lowtown and build nice houses for people there. If the current ruler is unpopular, posters with calls for a rebellion start appearing, protestors are filling the streets.
Kirkwall was so bland and boring, and none of your choices mattered. Such a disappointment.

>>52197044
For all it's faults DA 2 was a fun game at times
DA:I was a fun game about Religion

>>52171109
they are not accepting. YOu are still forced to do what you fit for, regardless of what gender you identify with. If you are a warrior (which Krem was by the point Bull met it), you are a man. If you lack the appropiate parts, your bad, but you cannot wake up and say "Oh I feel as a woman now" and expect to not be lobotomized

>>52171400
It had Gaspard, who will make Orlais great again

>>52169976
Any non-D&D product. Because I never get to play them. If I had the money I spent on unused role playing books I could start my own porn production company.

>>52197044

Mass effect recycled environments but they were modular so a disserted ship would have a slightly different environment each time.

DAII though, you were literally in the same cave something like 6 times. It was ridiculous.

>>52185194
Sometimes, you get sick and tired of that damned cave

>>52199206
They actually did switch what parts of the cave were accessible, sometimes.

Also to some extent, I can see why they wouldn't bother designing a dozen different port warehouses, it's not like there's going to be a lot of diversity.

>>52194242
>>52188468
Darkspawn are implied to be a lot older than the Tevinter Darkspawn, one of the Evanuris may have discovered them in the "Void places" of the Fade and caused great destruction before Mythal fixed her and removed the darkness. Which would explain why Flemeth doesn't fear the darkspawn, too. She knows what they are and how to keep them away or otherwise fix them.

>>52199603
Yes, they switched parts that were accessible, but it was LITERALLY the same cave. Like not even with different decals.
It was just the same like 6 dungeons over and over and over again, which would be somewhat excuseable if like Mass Effect 1 it was the side missions that were recycled crap, but it was the main fucking mission.
Like just going through the main missions, not taking any detours or sidequests, you'd have to go through the same fucking cave at least 6 times.

Like why is EVERY warehouse the same, with the same fucking layout, and the same fucking ships, the same fucking everything?

I actually liked DAII more than most though, I genuinely thought it was an interesting take to make a setting and your interactions with the NPCs deeper rather than wider, and let them evolve over time.

But if people are going to shit on its DIVERSITY shit, then Anders is the worst fucking offender Bioware has ever made.

>>52199830
>Anders is the worst fucking offender Bioware has ever made.
I honestly still don't see how people thought the stealth romance was a thing, at least compared to the very first time I did a playthrough of DAO and ending up flirting with Zevran, which seemed like it would be a lot easier to do by accident.

>>52199830
I fucking hated every single character you got to know in DA2, so getting to know them at a deeper level was part of the problem.

Particularely that crazy elf bitch.

>>52199905
>I can use blood magic safely!
>>fucks up and is cast out of her tribe
>I can fix a mirror with blood magic!
>Hawke says this is a bad idea
>>fucks up
>I can deal with a pride demon and not get screwed over!
>Hawke says this is a bad plan
>>pride demon screws her over
>why does everybody always go against me?
>Hawke wishes he could say listen you little elf shit, the only common factor in all these fuckups is you

Was literally the reason I romanced Isabella. Sure, she's a pirate, is the cause of the Qunari invasion, and probably sleeps around, but at least she isn't completely retarded most of the time.

>>52200168
She gets her tribe fucking murdered the shit out of after breaking a rule they EXPLICITLY told her not to and that it would have bad consequences for no fucking reason at all and goes "WHY DOES MY TRIBE HATE ME!?"

Fuck her.

File: isabela 1.png (683KB, 1658x902px) Image search: [Google]

683KB, 1658x902px

>>52200197
I forgot about that. Probably because I tried to block her stupidity out before it could infect me.

>>52200288
I don't remember exactly what she did either, as I have suppressed the memory.

I just remember being absolutely pissed at her for doing what she did and feeling that she deserved every little bit of the punishment she got.

Also annoyed me when the tribe elder treated it like fucking nothing.

>>52200168
It's all but stated that Merrill is the party idiot. So much travel banter implies that most of your other companions go out of their way to keep her from getting herself killed.

To be honest, the DA2 party should really be viewed through the lens of being deeply dysfunctional, and only able to function because of support from the rest of the party, mainly Hawke and Varric. Aveline is wooden and only disqualified from being a shut-in by virtue of actually holding down a job, Isabela is one bad day away from being a complete wash-out, Fenris would brood himself to death in that empty house if you didn't keep dragging him along, Merrill used WIS as a dump stat, and Anders is fucking Anders.

>>52194381
>were forced out by EA.
The weren't forced out, they sold out.

>>52200362
>>52200288
She's still trying to fix the broken Eluvian, and goes to consult a demon who said to her years ago that he witnessed the Eluvian's creation.

The demon has recently been silent, and when traveling to its mountain prison, the Keeper is there and says that she found out what Merrill was doing, and that the demon was just using her to escape its prison via the Eluvian (and was never helping her "fix" it, just turn it into a way out of its prison and consume Merrill for her power). So the Keeper trapped the demon inside herself instead as a sacrifice to save Merrill.

So then you have to kill the Keeper, obviously, and then go talk to the clan, at which point they attack (I think, there might be nonviolent ways out if you just blame Merrill entirely) and you have to kill them.

Then back at her house in Kirkwall, after ALL THAT, Merrill's conclusion is that the clan and Keeper didn't pay attention to her when she was trying to help them, and so it was all their fault what happened, she's blameless.

Fuck that knife-eared bitch.

>>52200484
There actually is a nonviolent option for the clan, although IIRC Merrill still gets exiled.

Also, she actually does admit she fucked up if you go the rival route with her. That actually seems to be a theme with a lot of the companions, with friendship being enabling them and rivalry being rubbing their mistakes in their faces.

>>52200484
The Keeper acted like a moron. Like Merrill is mostly a terrible character, but the Keeper pretty much made everything bad that happens a self fulfilling prophecy by feeding into the fear and getting caught by the pride demon.

And let's be honest, if I was a pride demon, a keeper is a damn sight better snack than her fucking apprentice.

>>52200523
>I want to fuck you, so I'm just going to say that you're completely in the right about getting your tribe killed, it's their fault it happened, not yours for letting out the literal demon

>>52200168
The pride demon doesn't screw her over though.

The pride demon does brilliantly manipulate the Keeper into thinking that Merrill, her star pupil, will be so much safer if she would only free it, since obviously a strong, powerful keeper can control the pride demon better than her pupil.

It's one of the few things that I found clever in that stupid quest chain.

>>52200553
>And let's be honest, if I was a pride demon, a keeper is a damn sight better snack than her fucking apprentice.
I think that's implied to be the reason why it went for the deal. The tribe wouldn't deal with it, and Merrill wouldn't stop, so the only option to save Merrill was to give the demon something else instead or kill Merrill first.

It was stupid, yes, but it was a sacrifice. Merrill just didn't get the fucking message, that otherwise it would have been HER cohabiting with a demon.

Just shitty writing.

>>52200610
Except none of Merrill's other dealings with demons in the game imply she'd accept that kind of deal.

In the fade you actually only lose rep with her if you don't hear out the first demon first, you're free to cut it down afterwards.

Also ironically both elves get caught by the pride demon there.

File: 1489019481569.png (30KB, 420x294px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 420x294px

>>52200484
Damnit Merrill

>>52200849
>lose rep for not wanting to listen to A FUCKING DEMON DEAL

Anon, you're not exactly giving a great accounting here.

>>52200568
You can still fuck her in the rival route.

>>52201343
I just left her at the camp and pretended she didn't exist.

>>52201384
I still fucked her because I thought that taking the shard away from her like you take a loaded gun away from a toddler would set her straight.

I was wrong

>>52199905
But I tutored her in the ways of leabian sex, so it all worked out.

>>52199206
>>52199603
While it doesn't JUSTIFY it, I heard a pretty funny and clever excuse for this once: the whole game is actually Varric telling his story to Cassandra. OF COURSE he wouldn't get bogged down by describing every single cave and warehouse the gang raided! After the first one, he probably just glosses over the details and Cassandra imagines the same thing because she's focusing on Hawke and co.

>>52200168
Merril (like a big bunch of the cast of DAII, really) is a deconstruction of an archetype. She's BioWare's obligatory innocent ditzy cutey girl with a dark past... except this time, they show exactly what would actually happen if an innocent ditz tried playing adventurer (or in her case, blood mage). Like Mission Vao, Dawn Star or Liara T'soni before her, Merril is exceedingly good at what she does but this doesn't change the fact that fundamentally she's a moron and no matter how cute she is going about being a moron she still ruins everything she touches.

She is ALSO a very unusual take on the whole "blood mage" stereotype, which fits the themes of the game. We think "blood mage" and what comes into our mind is a bunch of cackling old perverts in robes being EVUL somewhere dark and scary, but really, it can also be the cutsey sunshine and bunnies animoo elf prancing about and the key thing is that the differences are both greater and smaller than they seem. Merril's defining character flaw is still "Pride", it just doesn't manifest in the usual, overtly assholey way we're used to picturing. Sometimes, "Pride" means being very nice and polite about the fact you still think you know better than everyone else and never listening to their advice, no matter how much it causes you to fuck up.

>>52200523
This was one of my most favorite things about DAII and I was saddened they didn't keep it for inquisition. The Rivalry/Friendship mechanic was absolutely brilliant, and it added so much infinitely more depth to your interaction with party member's than bioware's usual flat spectrum with "threaten to leave party" on one end and "sex scene" on the other.

Also, >>52200568, IIRC all romancable party members have both a friendship AND a rivalry romance. Rivalry romance is basically either angry hatefucking or a sort of dysfunctional "I don't agree with anything you say but I still like you as a person" drama book relationship.

>>52204159
In fact, the rivalry romances were added precisely in order to avoid the problem described in >>52200568 where players would sometimes find themselves cringing through having their character agreeing with the opinions of some idiot party member just so they could imagine her tits.

>>52170983
I can believe it. The Qun has words for all kinds of bullshit that isn't relevant in their society. Nobody can be trans if their born into the Qun, because of communal child-rearing specifically to put them into certain professions, and drugs/mind control that is advertised as "good" if you ever feel unfulfilled/wrong in life. People joining the Qun is just a special case, as it stands, if a trans person was born into the Qun, they'd do what Bull did. Go and see the re-educators to get it sorted out (ie. Brainwash it out of them).

>>52200197
>>52200362

The KEEPER told her "don't do this, it's a terrible idea". Then when Merrill goes back to do it because "just one more question to the demon", the Keeper has the fucking GENIUS idea, to get herself possessed to prove a fucking point. Then when you kill the Keeper, because she decided the best way to stop Merrill from accidentally getting possessed (which desu she actually had been doing a pretty fucking good idea NOT to do, and even shuts up one of Ander's "blah, blood mage" bullshits with "I KNOW all spirits are dangerous, how come you don't?").

Then the village comes up and gets mad you killed the Keeper, who decided the best goal of action as the person responsible for her tribe, was to not tell them anything, and commit suicide by Hawke in order to hopefully teach her ex-apprentice a lesson.

Merrill was an idiot, but she was still the most successful at dealing with demons (besides Wynn I suppose) and could have... MAYBE, if you squint really hard and hope that she learns her lesson be a non retarded blood mage. But then the Keeper goes full "I know what's best, let's go turn myself into an abomination just to prove a fucking point about thinking about the consequence, and completely ignore the consequences of that action."

In short, Merrill's still a fucking idiot, but it's no surprise given her fucking teacher.

>>52201273
Her point is basically "Demons are just spirits, and spirits don't have to be evil monsters, no reason to just RIP AND TEAR just because it's a demon."

>>52197044, >>52197142
The concept was Baldur's Gate II, except replace "Ferelden" with "Sword Coast" and "Kirkwall" with "Athkatla".
The first story mission objective is even the same; get a ridiculous amount of cash to advance the plot from the next to nothing you start out with.

>>52204622
Spirits don't have to be, no.

Demons are the evil monster variant of spirits though. Shit, you basically watch Justice turn into Vengeance throughout DA2. Just because they're spirits with an ego doesn't change the fact that once they pick up those qualities they're in the shitter.

File: 1489647279660.webm (3MB, 940x528px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 940x528px

And for anyone curious about Mass Effect Andromeda, Bioware's not gotten any better.

File: 1489650842754.gif (1MB, 540x304px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 540x304px

>>52204659

>>52204659
>>52204667
It's like I'm watching particularly shitty pro wrestling.

File: 1489650882649.gif (3MB, 689x251px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 689x251px

>>52204667

File: BiowareFans.jpg (667KB, 2029x2186px) Image search: [Google]

667KB, 2029x2186px

>>52169976
When did everything go oh so wrong?

File: 1489651186176.gif (2MB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 500x281px

>>52204678

File: 1489652114740.gif (2MB, 360x229px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 360x229px

>>52204686

File: 1489653029990.webm (863KB, 736x428px) Image search: [Google]

863KB, 736x428px

>>52204693

File: 1489654271272.webm (2MB, 718x404px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 718x404px

>>52204702

File: 1489655183835.webm (2MB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1280x720px

>>52204707
Oh, and in case you're hoping the writing isn't as bad as the animation:

https://webmshare.com/Dm0Nz

https://webmshare.com/KEZKV

https://webmshare.com/M061r

File: WhatIGot.jpg (918KB, 1980x2800px) Image search: [Google]

918KB, 1980x2800px

>>52204679

>>52204650
Yeah, she just thinks treating them both the same is the way to go about it which is... reasonable. From memory it's not the RIGHT way to go about it, but from as little as I got into DAI Solas touched on the point as well,, so I'm going to give my appraisal on that attitude a little room. She has her moment where when she sees Anders turning more into Vengeance she has her "ALL spirits are dangerous Anders. I thought you knew that.".

The more I think about it, the more I feel like they tried to push both the "Ditzy enough to cause everything go wrong, and not see the trees for the forest" vs "general, she has her own way of going about things, and is smart in her field of expertise, but outside that she's naive and ditzy" at the same time and didn't come to a decision by the end.

>>52204739
Merrill is a classic example of high INT, low WIS.

She knows magic, sure. But she's completely clueless about the right, safe, or proper ways to employ that knowledge, and she importantly also never learns her lesson unless you rival her and beat her over the head with it.

>>52204622
>>52204650
>>52204739
She had no point because that's how bad she was written.
Its funny (or sad) how deep you are reading into DA2 when the writers didn't even bother to do that.

In fact I think you people are the saddest beings, trying to save shitty writing through your head-cannons and interpretation when you just need to see the writers other works to figure how inept she is.

>>52204782
It's like the horror movie principal. If I sat around going "NOPE, It's all terrible writing and it's bad." then it would be boring. Why would I do that to myself when I can admit the writing is subpar, and then still be optimistic about it and look for new ways to think about what little bits of good writing shined through the pile of shit.

File: sad bed pepe.png (25KB, 238x200px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 238x200px

I regret getting the L5R book...

Because nobody fucking plays it. Feels bad.

File: Helper.png (435KB, 720x682px) Image search: [Google]

435KB, 720x682px

>>52204885
>what little bits of good writing shined throug
there weren't any.

>It's like the horror movie principal
You mean the suspension of disbelief? That doesn't apply here.
It would work of the story was investing or the characters likeable or anything ANYTHING in the game worth engaging but it isn't.
I spent 50 hours on one play-through and I couldn't squeeze one ounce of fun out of it. In fact, at the end of the first act I just wanted to finish the game to tell people how abysmally fucking awful it is.

The only redeeming quality of DA2 is that at least its not as bad as Cisquisition.

>>52204944
DA2 had good gameplay and was a really fun and challenging ride on Nightmare. You can play through Cisquisition on Nightmare by literally rolling your face on the keyboard.
I know it's possible, I tried it.
The real crimes of DA2 were that it was way too fucking small and that it made Anders bisexual for no fucking reason whatsoever.
And that Varric isn't a romance option.

>>52200568
You can still call her out on her shit, even though you are romancing her. That's why there are choices, you don't need to push the same button every time.

>>52169976
I no longer do this without reading several reviews, unless it's like, $5.

Otherwise I risk more debacles like that time I ordered a bunch of 3.5 3pp because the companies were going out of business. On sale, yes, but most of what I got was crap. Eternal Rome was an interesting read though.

Even when i am more careful though, sometimes I get a stinker like M&M. The only game I've ever played where I could build character after character and have tons of fun, but then actual gameplay comes up and it's so bland I want to hang myself. I gave it away to a friend on the condition he never asks us to play it again at our shared gaming group. I hear he plays it with other people. Good riddance to it.

>>52204944
>Suspension of disbelief?
I don't think so, I'm moreso talking about how in a conversation like this, you CAN just spout "It was all shit! ALL SHIT!" but that doesn't take the conversation anywhere. What fun/purpose is there to having a conversation/watching a movie where all you do is refuse to participate?

People who watch horror movies aren't "suspending disbelief" to be scared (they do on some level, I'm just saying there's something ELSE at work rather than just 'ignore the little logical inconsistencies'), they are actively choosing to let it scare them because otherwise there's no purpose to the movie and they're just watching it to feel superior "Heh, that movie wasn't scary, it was just stupid, and hilarious. Can you believe all the gratuitous gore scenes, totally unecessary. And that Sam Riami camera shot half way through, total chump. You'd think the movie was made by monkeys".

It's similar to how in tabletop someone can sit there and go "This is boring, it's all just make believe/it's just a game, who cares if I cheat a little?" while everyone else just wonders why the fuck they even showed up to something when they aren't even going to try and have fun.

File: 1488506459797.jpg (1MB, 750x1334px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 750x1334px

I bought a bunch of the DnD books because my boyfriend REALLY wanted to try it. We played it once and he never wanted to play it again.

File: 1488308903070.png (1MB, 1500x1434px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1500x1434px

>>52205158
>DA2 had good gameplay and was a really fun and challenging ride on Nightmare.

>>52205542
Not that anon, but I honestly think DA2 would have been received as a fairly average RPG if it wasn't made by BioWare, or a wasn't a sequel to DA:O.

Besides, the screenshots of forums and interviews, while pretty damn bad, don't actually say anything about the quality of the game itself. Plus, the editing is shit. Hepler's words do enough to discredit her on their own, adding "and also she's a fatty fat poopiehead" just makes YOU look bad.

>>52205404
>What fun/purpose is there to having a conversation/watching a movie where all you do is refuse to participate?
What fun/purpose is there having a conversation about things that never happened because I d bet 10 fucking Dollars that the writer who wrote that crap never even thought that far.
You are literally making up your own reasons why shit in the game happened because the writers couldn't be arsed.

>they are actively choosing to let it scare them because otherwise there's no purpose to the movie and they're just watching it to feel superior "

Because I enjoyed the first game where I could forgive many flaws of the writing or internal logic due how cohesive the whole expierience was. I couldnt do that DA2 because there was so much grating shit that kept reminding you THIS IS A GAME.WE MADE IT NOT WITH PASSION BUT BECAUSE WE LOVE MONEY. THIS IS A CASHGRAB. WE COULDNT BE ARSED PUTTING ANY EFFORT INTO ANY PART OF IT, HERE HAVE SOME MORE REDUNDANT RUNNING AROUND THROUGH THE SAME CAVE FOR THE 5TH TIME.

>It's similar to how in tabletop someone can sit there and go "This is boring, it's all just make believe/it's just a game, who cares if I cheat a little?" while everyone else just wonders why the fuck they even showed up to something when they aren't even going to try and have fun.

I liked the first game and its been all downhill from there. So no, its more like "oh no, we had this great campaign running and I was curious about so many stuff but suddenly the DM decided our fun is badwrongfun".

I pirated both DA2 and Cisquisition just to witness how bad it gets and schmucks like you who are defending these crimes against role playing games on any level really grind my gears.

>>52205635
Anon, there are three different opinions here.

>DA2 was irredeemable trash and all traces of it existing should be buried in a pit of spent uranium
This is you.

>DA2 was bad to mediocre, but there are bits of it that are interesting, or at least worth discussing
This is the rest of us in the thread.

>DA2 was good
No one outside the BioWare forums ever.

>>52205423
Did you play one-on-one or with a group? 1-player sessions can be a bit rocky sometimes

>>52205635
>THIS IS A GAME.WE MADE IT NOT WITH PASSION BUT BECAUSE WE LOVE MONEY. THIS IS A CASHGRAB. WE COULDNT BE ARSED PUTTING ANY EFFORT INTO ANY PART OF IT, HERE HAVE SOME MORE REDUNDANT RUNNING AROUND THROUGH THE SAME CAVE FOR THE 5TH TIME.

I think it was less this and more an EA imposed development cycle of less than 12 months. FFS, they don't make Cow of Doody on that short a cycle, let alone RPGs.

>>52205686
Eh, I enjoyed DA2. I'd say it was medium/good.

>>52169976
Almost everything I've kickstarted. The stopped kickstarting for that reason - too much crap, too little reward.

I think the worst choices I made were Zogar's Gaze, a press your luck card game where how far you have to press is also up to luck, and Apex Theropod, a dinosaur-themed deckbuilder written by someone MORE autistic than you'd expect from the concept, who obviously never had anyone with even high-functioning Aspergers take a look at his rules.

Never again.

>>52205791
I've honestly never had issues with kickstarter. Maybe you just take things a bit too much at face value? Generally it seems pretty easy to tell how bad a project will be.

>>52205880
Maybe I'm just bad at Kickstarter. Still means I shouldn't use it. I just pick up whatever it was I was going to buy when it's actually released and has some reviews, and if it has a bunch of exclusive backer content than I just skip it.

File: 1488815915568.jpg (27KB, 413x305px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 413x305px

>>52206024
That's a decent strategy, too! The only issue is when the Kickstarter company tries to be exclusive like Kingdom Death. Which is a stupid anti-consumer strategy.

>The Messenger becomes Altair-lite when you set him free, killing every bandit and monster that attacks Amaranthine's citizens by bitchslapping them
>Probably keeps protecting its citizens when Corypheus surfaces, due to his Awakening allowing him to resist the Call
Too bad nothing from Awakening appears in Inquisition

The good thing about Andromeda is that they were kind enough to set it far enough away in space and time from Mass Effect you can easily tell yourself it's not the same universe.

>>52204944
Is that pic a parody?

>>52210154
Some it likely is. The part about Mass Effect 3 is almost certainly a joke or made up since you'd have seen that in the game. EA doesn't like dumping money, if they'd really "put a lot of time" or something into a coming out sequence with all the bells and whistles there'd have been a coming out sequence with all the bells and whistles in the game, and there's nothing even close.

>>52206740
Wait... what? The DLC that is literally about one of the Magisters re-awakening and taking control of Darkspawn, doesn't show up in fucking Inquisition?

Godfucking dammnit, every time I think maybe it's worth it to finish the game just to see how it works out I learn something new that makes me stop caring.

>>52210390
No, Inquisition is a failure in every sense of the word. I mean, it doesn't even properly reference the DLC where Corypheus originated.

>>52210439
Uh, did you miss Hawke's entire involvement in the plot or something? His whole story is about how releasing Corypheus was his fuckup