Is D&D popular for good reason? It seems like many, many

>>52169674
It also clutters the head with useless rules. You could learn a foreign language instead of learning D&D

>>52169674
Most of it is just good memories of playing pretend with their friends and the actual system is irrelevant.
D&D is popular because
1. it has a HELL of a brand name (seriously, it rolls off the tongue, it's catchy, it puts you in the proper mindset of what it is, it's an A+++ grade marketable name)
2. it has seniority (nobody remembers Chainmail so it's really the first "pretend with dice & rules" game)

>>52169704
That's only the 3e iterations. They contain the cluttering useless rules.

>>52169674
Shadowrun, World of Darkness, Paranoia, Call of Cthulhu, The Dark Eye - all of them are just as iconic and old games as DnD with fleshed-out settings.
I won't mention GURPS, because it doesn't have a native setting, but it's also there.

No, DnD isn't popular for a good reason. It's just grognards fueling the vicious cycle by refusing to acknowledge that there are other games.

>>52169750
Are they really as old?
Why aren't they spoken of as highly or as fondly?

>>52169750
> grognards fueling the vicious cycle by refusing to acknowledge that there are other games.
If anything I'd say its the opposite. D&D gets all the newcomers because of its great brand recognition and relative simplicity of its concept

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>>52169674
>D&D
>Popular
Try outside US of A

The properties on D&D's license have generally been quality media, from Gold Box in the 80s-90s, through the Infinity Engine games, and even those arcade beat em ups. The D&D settings are also pretty cool, Planescape in particular.

D&D is a big property that nevertheless manages to strike well with modern means of distribution, like the fact that all of the third edition/PF is available for free and how you can run a pretty viable game of 5e with just the starter set.

/tg/ is in that place where a huge amount of people hate it and yet the 5e and PF generals thrive, OSR is chock-full of games building off of OD&D/AD&D and a lot of people say that the 4th edition had great material, if not in its tactical sphere then at least in the very well written DMG.

And really,
>grognards fueling the vicious cycle by refusing to acknowledge that there are other games
you really have to be quite acquainted with RPGs as a whole to know what less mainstream stuff like Mutants & Masterminds that many deem as superior. D&D is a fine entry level game, especially with the 4th and 5th edition.

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>>52169750
>GURPS, because it doesn't have a native setting
Infinite Worlds

Now you know.

>>52169674
Yes, it is popularfor a good reason.

But no one on /tg/ can accept that the fun they hate could be popular - they try very hard to kill any kind of fun they don't like (see: GURPS, D&D, quests, writefaggotry, worldbuilding...).

Protip: Fun isn't quantifiable, and people have fun with D&D. That's all it needs to be popular.

>>52169859
I live in Poland.
People primarily play WFRP2 and D&D.
CoC, WoD, Savage Worlds and the like are in a tier of their own.
New RPGs aren't being released on the Polish market at all, so people stay in the cycle.

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>>52169824
>Implying this hard

>>52169866
When you throw everything into the kitchen sink, it doesn't count as a proper setting, anon.

>>52169848
The brand recognition is there because of the grognards, though. If you play nothing but DnD, and then mass-media makes jokes that basically equate the entire concept of tabletop games to DnD specifically, well, it's no wonder that newcomers will flock to it.

>>52169882
But it does have its own set of factions and rules regarding world travel. I mean its a frame-work setting but its still a setting.

>>52169824
>Are they really as old?
No. All of those are from the '80s, while D&D is from 1974.

>>52169866
It didn't have a default setting before 4e, though.

>>52169877
I I'm also a Pole (proszę powiedz, że szukasz graczy w pobliżu Krakowa) and that's why I'm pointing out the fact how obscure D&D can get. I mean... outside "cool kids" from Warsaw, nobody plays D&D in any serious quantity. Unless trying some 0D&D oldschool counts, like the guys from Biały Lew group.

The biggest joke of history is how with single publishing house simply leaving RPG market, entire fucking scene in Poland turned into bottle-community, with everything stuck as if was eternal 2003

>>52169882
Um... Infinite Worlds is a genuine setting, so what's your problem? It's about field agents of Home being dispatched (or going on their own) for missions in parallels.
It has pretty neat lore, setting, rules specific for itself and what not.

Also, there is Reign of Steel, but that's not native - that's simply the best GURPS setting to date.

>>52169898
>No. All of those are from the '80s, while D&D is from 1974.
Anon, please. No one cared about DnD before ADnD came out, and the entry point for the majority was 2e.

>>52169903
The fuck? Spoiler no longer works?!

>>52169704
DND is rules medium

>>52169898
>That homebrew bunch of guys played in their free time
>D&D came out in '74!
I know this is a bait thread, but come on! The game wasn't a thing since AD&D came out with the entire line of boxed sets

>>52169922
Brackets have never been spoiler you dingus.

>>52169923
3.X definitely isn't

>>52169859
>Try outside US of A
Why would we care about the opinions of those outside the civilized world? Do we really want to know what RPG is the most popular in Botswanna?

>>52169923
Being rule-medium doesn't mean it's not a clusterfuck of rules. The entire 3.X was build on memorising countless exceptions and building your character around them.

>>52169933
But was, you fucking cunt. And the content of the bracket was within spoiler tag.

Let's see if it works

>>52169936
It's still night/very early morning in States, Hans. No point pretending

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>>52169903
Sory, jestem z okolic Gdańska.
Where all of my friends play 3.5, PF, 5e and I'm picking up 4e from my friend from Szczecin, because I really want to check it out.

>>52169954
Holy shit, spoiler tag officially broken

>>52169959
Nice to know. By 2012 Trójmiasto scene was dominated by guys excessively playing that clusterfuck of rules, Neuroshima. Didn't check ever since, because... well, Neuroshima.

No to dupa, w Gdańsku to ja bywam, jak wypływam na rejs albo są regaty

>>52169873
I like you.

We should be friends.

>>52169959
Silesian here, fuck you all Poles.

Also, is there even 5e in Polish? The biggest challenge to randomly assemble party is to get a game that is published in Polish, even if everyone in the group is fluent in 3 or more different languages.

>>52169750
>>52169866
>GURPS
Man, you know how >>52169715 said "D&D" is a marketable brand name?
GURPS is the opposite of that. GURPS doesn't tell you what it is, other than telling you that it literally isn't anything (generic is a word you never want to include in your brand name), and it ragdolls off the tongue with the misfortune of sounding just like "burps". Such an atrocious name for any product.

>>52169859
Spic here, its still D&D.
I saw a Pathfinder table once, though.

>>52169961
another polish person confirmed retarded
in other words, an ordinary day

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>>52169983
Silesian, Polish and broken German don't count as language fluency, Bercik

I just hope you are not that fag from Katowice, who shit up GURPS gen few months ago and is dick-waving with MAG's Witcher as the best game ever made

>>52169970
Fuck Neuroshima with a rake, I agree. I had my worst sessions in that system and the writing is cringy, especially if, like all Poles, you came off freshly from playing Fallout all day all week.

D&D should rightly be more popular, because Neuroshima is a horseshit system, Savage Worlds/CoC/WoD is fairly underground and WFRP2, while a classic, also requires a much better GM than a D&D romp.

The Trójmiasto fandom is absolutely dead, by the way. No conventions for either the mangozjebs or the RPG players, so I would say my situation is a bit of an outlier anyway.

>>52169983
There is no 5e in Polish, sadly, no. The last edition was 4e. Like Krakowianon and I said, all RPG publishers went to board games because people don't play RPGs much anymore at all.

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>>52170003
Also, friends, Silesian, Kashubian, Warsawian, Cracovian or not, but I'd appreciate no more hostilities in this thread. We are all children under one God, blessed be Virgin Mary.

>>52169987
>I never saw marketing for GURPS
Yeah, I've noticed.

It's sold the same way as LEGO is. There are sets, but the entire marketing emphasis is put on the fact you can take few sets, mix them together and get what you want to build.

And yeah, it's losing with D&D, because D&D gives you instead a flashy toy with sound and buttons to push. There are tons of pre-made scenarios, there is everything prepared for you and all you need is have that toy. Things only get complicated if you want to play something different using that toy.

>>52169991
Since when being Spanish counts as being spic?
Because it's 6 AM in all spic countries right now

>>52169954
Im in Ontario (Thats in Canada for the Americans) and have been on here since 1:15 AM, your theory is wrong there Ivan.

>>52169936
Why do Americans always forget about Canada? The nation that isn't imploding under it's own political bullshit? the only north american nation that'll be civilized after 2020?

Being so underinformed and xenophopic...must be a great place, this civilized 'world' you live i.

Due to a combination of being recognized as the first tabletop RPG and having been released at a socially opportune time (believe it or not, the D&D Satanism scares, in the long run, made a magnificent PR tool), it is now so much more recognizable than any other that to many, it is literally synonymous with the hobby. I've known quite a few people who likely to this day still refer to all RPGs as "D&D games", and to the vast majority of people, if they know the concept even exists D&D is likely what it's about. As a result, it is very nearly certain to be the first game anyone would play in their childhood and people will always have an unfairly favorable opinion of their first game. Combine this with much of the industry still being controlled by grognards wearing the same nostalgia glasses regarding their own first gaming experiences in the 70's and WoTC's OGL system making the go-to mechanic for 99.99% of shitty third party products to come out through the 90's, and you got an industry defining leviathan that's going to take a while to get rid of.

>>52170003
Sorry to disappoint you, but that's not me. But the guy was (somewhat) right, Witcher RPG is one of the better games made in the 90s, even if it was published in 2001 and definitely the only Polish game that doesn't suck.

>>52170020
I'm member of the Evangelic Church in Poland. Checkmate, tradition worshipper.

>>52170020
Why are Poles so Christian?

>>52170027
How in the hell is GURPS marketed anyway? Are they just subsisting on word of mouth and residual fanbase from the 90s peak? DFRPG got 1500 backers, which isn't bad.

>>52170042
>This butthurt
>This angry
>Canadian
You sound rather like a Québécois to me

>>52170047
>WoTC's OGL system making the go-to mechanic for 99.99% of shitty third party products to come out through the 90's
You mean '00s.

>>52170027
8.
It's 8 AM.
Unless being on the one south american country that isn't falling apart at all times doesn't count as spic.

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>>52170042
>Canada
>civilized
Enjoy those dogs while you can, Sharia forbids unclean animals.

>>52170086
>on /tg/ at 8 AM
Is there really so little to do in the favelas?

>>52170079
Yeah, sorry.

>>52170057
Good on you, anon; as I said, we are all children under one God.
I try to stick to that belief even in my priesthood studies. John Paul II sought peace and understanding among the rabbis and the imams; I see no reason not to accept you as my brother.
Would love to play a game with you, too, since my immediate high school friends went off to different universities.

>>52170067
The trend of Poles being Christian is actually fading away with new generations. I hang around with my non-believer friends all the time and have no problem with that.

My faith has mostly been just a way to catalyze my soul-searching.
Still, oddly enough, my brief stint with Warhammer had me playing Chaos and I played my last D&D game as a Warlock.

>>52170067
The traditional way - adds in "trade" magazines, stands in gaming conventions and increasingly showing up in the net.
Basically, they marketing is roughtly 15 years behind when it comes to reaching their potential buyers. But the content of their adds is spot on, so when they eventually reach you, you are buying their stuff.

>Why are Poles so Christian?
Try ending up with situation where being Christian was the main and dominant way of being different from surrounding nations trying to conquer you.
Then add Church role as being a way of telling commie regime "fuck you" simply by attending mass.

>>52169938
>>52169933
>3.X definitely isn't
>The entire 3.X was build on memorising countless exceptions and building your character around them.
Do you have ADD or is this just baseless shitposting?

>>52170105
I wouldn't know.

>>52170007
Hunfag here.

At least you got 4e.

The last translated D&D we got was 3rd edition.

>>52170086
The only one that is 8 AM is also falling apart, so the fuck you are talking, Huehuelander? Also - since when Huehueland is spic?

>>52170134
At least you guys have your own high-quality RPGs, right? :^)

>>52170117
You mean ADD as disease or ADD as D&D 2.X?

Also, only the xxx38 post is mine. And yeah, ADD was also fucking shit when it comes to rules, but you could still made a working and functional character without trying to abuse the system or pulling some obnoxious combo of broken feats.

>>52170137
I don't know how you arrived to that conclusion.
I only said it wasn't falling apart.
That rules out hueland.

>>52170145
Oh yes, M.A.G.U.S. the greatest RPG ever made, a pity it's only in Hungarian, or it would surely have conquered the market from D&D by now.

please send help, I don't know how much longer I can take this

Why don't more of these games have rules translations into the native language?

>>52170149
>D&D 2.X
I think this is the first time I have ever seen AD&D referred to as 2.X.

>>52170007
WoD, at least oWoD had its fair days in late 90s, when goth and metal subcultures were at their peak.
And the more years pass since then, the more I miss all those people with whom you could easily and on spot improvise a game of Masquerade.
Or CoC.

The only scene that isn't ultra-dead is Silesian one, since the RPG part of Silesian Club of Fantasy is pretty active and organises on their own games even for non-members. When I was still studying, I was always catching a train to be at their games each Thursday.
Now I have problem to organise game among combined forces of UJ, AGH and UR. It's a wonder if I manage to assemble a single group out of three universities.
And we end up either with fucking Wild Fields when the majority of players consists of historyfags or all those new, untranslated games that we try to play once and for 2nd game half of the group doesn't show up.

>>52170149
>You mean ADD as disease or ADD as D&D 2.X?
As in the disease. Building a character is easy is shit if you've read the rules, like, once.

>trying to abuse the system or pulling some obnoxious combo of broken feats.
what stops you from doing that in 3.5? And honestly, 3.5 is on the harder side of games to break, as you actually need to put in some consideration into it. No one accidentally stumbles upon an infinite wish combo. Compare this to FATE or something, where just normally building a character can just break everything because skills aren't balanced at all.

>>52170189
>Wild Fields
Jezu Chryste Swięta Panienko, co jeszcze? Monastyr?

>>52170161
RPG don't make enough dosh to do that. Only the really big-name ones like D&D and Shadowrun have translations, apart from the odd smaller ones like Mutant Chronicles or Coriolis or Anima.

>>52170159
Hey, you've got Codex as well.

>>52170072
Deliciously anglophone.

it's just shit like this guy;
>>52170103

that piss me off. because he's is afraid of shit that's not happening, and is supporting (based on his behavior) the mentality that different = bad.

OH NOES ANOTHER RELIGION WHAT EVER SHALL I DO.

we aren't a country built by religion, and muslims arn't going to be destroying our country, just like the irish didn't destroy yours (they gave you christmas so that is actuaally debatable), the polish didn't really do anything evil when they came over, and the irrational hate for the spansih is really only hurting your own economy and social standerd.

So really, if it means that poor people don't get to live in fear of their government (america) arn't fucked if they get a cold or a broken arm (america) or afraid for their lives because they happen to be fucking black (ameri- actually that happens here too, it's just not the shit we use to fill our news cycle, and per capita we have significantly less violent crime)

I'd rather live in a country with decent (and getting better!) education (public schools are a good thing yo, and thats a federal level thing to handle), Decent (and getting better!) health care, and decent (and getting better) job prospects (ehhh)

Really i'm butthurt that a lot of people in the states, and here, don't really care what happens to thier neighbour, and choose to be filled with misery and hate.

Muslims aren't the enemy. It's radical terror organisations (and domestic terrorists) that are.

but hey, being Kind and a good person is hard when all you care about is the economy, so i get why you boil it down to US VS THEM.

I just think it's awful childish

>>52170204
Monastyr is finally dead. For good. Jesus, that game was a fucking piece of shit. It fucking made Neuroshima look good by comparison.
Hell, it still makes even Wolsung look good by comparison.

Why the fuck there are no even half-decent Polish games? I mean with the size of the scene in the 90s, they came up with grand total of TWO non-sucking (but still pretty bad) games: Wild Fields and Witcher.

Unless we count De Profundis as a game, that is.

But want to hear absolute kicker? Two years on Pyrkon there were guys looking for two more players to play Crystals of Time.
In fucking 2015

>>52170230
>Wolsung
>Crystals of Time
Hah. Add Earthdawn to the shitpile.

My remaining friends just prefer to play Talisman, and, when you're trying to become a priest, it's kinda difficult to get other young priests to play this game about casting spells and stuff.

>>52169859
Spain. Pathfinder became more popular since WotC refused to translate D&D 5e and 4e was a flop.

>>52170241
>Add Earthdawn to the shitpile.
As in the Shadowrun prequel system?

>>52170227
TL;DR version;
i think it's more uncivilized to hate an entire people based on some straw, man.

>>52170249
Yeah, it was, for some reason, a thing in Poland. Moreso than actual Shadowrun, at least from what I remember.

I mean, look at this retardation: https://wspieram.to/Earthdawn

>>52170007
>>52170243
Can someone explain me this shit?
WotC first shoot itself in both legs with the way how they've mishandled marketing for 4e and then they deny to publish translations of 5e in any other language that is not English.
While handling 3.X for free.

Is this some sort of grand marketing scheme for 6e running for over a decade or they are just fucking retarded and cut themselves from customers on their own decision?

>>52169674
>Is D&D popular for good reason?
The only reason is Americans, so no.

>>52169674
If you ask anyone who doesn't play tabletop roleplaying games to name such a game, D&D is going to be the first answer 90% of the time.

>>52170254
Imagine that I cannot read Polandese.

Is it some sort of Polish Kickstarter analogue, and these guys are trying to fund a translation of ED4E?

>>52170278
Yep.

>>52170249
Yup. Cyberpunk 2020 was pretty popular, and along with it Earthdown.
For whatever reason, Shadowrun wasn't even published in Polish, as far as I'm concerned. And if it did, then nobody plays it anyway.

>>52170254
>That cringefest trying to explain the failure of collecting money
If only they didn't establis a goal equal with a price of a new sport car... Top fucking kek!

>>52170278
It's from poor's man kickstarter. And they've set a goal so grandiose goal it was bound to fail. In fact, I'm amazed they've managed to collect 1/4 of their goal at all, that's how unbelivably high it was.
Also, followed by a lot of butthurt and genuine surprise the action failed.

To put it into international perspective - they were trying to collect roughtly a quarter million goal for a nostalgia game that maybe you and that kid from the other class HEARD about as a kid, but never played.

>>52170274
... in what country?

>>52170317
Canada and the USA. I bet it might be different in other countries, but for a fact I know D&D is the most common one here.

>>52170134
Mate, you don't know what you're wishing for. Russian translations are full of such incredible brain farts as "HIV Elves" instead of Wych Elves and "Blood Presses" instead of Bloodcrushers.

>>52170317
FUCKING BURKINA FASO ONLY PLAYS THE UMGUNGUNDLOVU AKSKIKUMBA, A GAME ABOUT POST-NUCLEAR AFRICANS SCAVENGING FOR SHIT IN THE WASTELAND WHILE ROLEPLAYING 19TH CENTURY ZULUS

IT'S A D6 SYSTEM

BECAUSE ONLY D6 CAN BE MADE WITH STALE BREAD

>>52170192
> And honestly, 3.5 is on the harder side of games to break, as you actually need to put in some consideration into it.
Breaking 3.5 is as easy as playing a Druid and looking up some cool animal companions and animals you can wildshape into.

>>52170241
>He's either a genuine seminary student or at least pretends to be one
Not sure what's more hilarious here in the context of tabletop RPG.

But then again, when I was still in high school, the priest behind religion classes was a former metalhead and he was running the school's "RPG Fridays". In fact, he was one of the better GMs I've ever had. And no religious problems whatsoever.
Now they've moved him to fucking Siberia, because he was too good to last as a vicar.

Anon, D&D is dead. 6E is just an online game.

>>52170334
>Let's ignore the existence of entire Western Europe, because surely, those guys must play D&D too, right? ... right?

>>52170345
>looking up some cool animal companions and animals you can wildshape into
>going to char op boards for optimal combos means it's easy to break
yeah, nah, you're a cunt,

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>>52170328
>HIV Elves
Are you pulling my leg? How do you even get from Wyches to HIV?

>>52170227
I've always wondered if there's some kind of canadian secret service that monitors all the citizens to ensure they hit their internet virtue signalling quota for the day

>>52170366
It's literally just being a bear druid.

>>52170366
I said "cool" not "optimal". You don't need to go online. You don't need to know the first thing about optimization. You just need to play a druid and pick options that look cool.

>>52170373
>>52170377
>implying bear or wolf druids break the game or are even top tier
if you don't know shit about the system you should not be allowed to comment on it.

>>52170369
It's Russian quality translation.

Want better stuff? Till the early 00s, not sure if it was 02 or 03, due to the existing law in Czech, EVERYTHING have to be given a new name according to rules of Czech language. Including translating fucking surnames or switching them for Czech-sounding. So you had stuff like Netoperek (Batman) or Tina Turnerova (go fucking figure).
Oh, and if it was film or TV series - mandatory dubbing

Needless to say, Czech RPG scene almost entirely sticks to English translations, because at least they can then look up things in the net, while trying to find them by the Czech translation and trying to re-translate it back to English would be impossible.

>>52170317
Every western country.

>>52170377
>You don't need to optimalise
>But you should
You are defeating your own argument here

>>52170385
In the games I played in? They absolutely did.

>>52169674
It has a huge market presence, and mechanics that even many non-TTRP people have some familiarity with through RPG computer-games, which helps set the bar pretty low for entrance.

As a game-world goes, it is sort of a blank canvas. It has EVERYTHING, and anything can be fitted in. Want Wild West? Homebrew a little, and use whatever other people already made.
Want space? - Sure, D&D can be in space.

There's a lot of space for new players to get creative with their characters. You can justify almost anything, depending on your GMs sense of laissez faire.
Just - somewhat poorly placed "medieval fantasy" with magic and whatever you wanna throw in. That makes it accessible.

And it is - like any TTRP - as fun as the DM and the players make it.
So yeah, I'd say it is popular for a good reason. It is the natural entry-level thing, both in feel, atmosphere and rules, and that is exaclty what it tries to be.

As a DM I find it absolutely lacking in moodsetting and atmosphere, compared to narrower games, with a more controlled world, but for what it is, it's pretty good.

After all, keeping a specific atmosphere also requires more stringent RP from your players, and understanding of the Universe, which all makes the learning curve steeper, and that is exactly what D&D does not want to do.

>>52170385
>implying they DON'T break the game
Unless your buddy who wants to play a fighter is making a fully optimized dungeon crasher build or something similar, you'll still be better than him at everything.

>>52170394
German here and I call bullshit.

Shadowrun is the first thing just about ANYONE will relate with RPG. Followed by Warhammer Fantasy.

>>52170397
Did you even fucking read what I wrote? Literally the only "optimization" here is picking druid as your class and not using your wildshape to turn into a cow.

>>52170411
>Shadowrun is the first thing just about ANYONE will relate with RPG. Followed by Warhammer Fantasy.
>not DSA
I call double-bullshit.

>>52170411
Calling bullshit on that mein freund. I worked for a few months in Bayern and nobody knew that something else than d&d existed.

>>52170369
Wych is spelled the same as HIV when transliterated into Cyrillic. Which is why no translator with half a brain should ever consider translating it by transliteration. But these magnificent fuckheads did it anyway.
The best thing about it is that the head translator of the book that had "HIV Elves" in it has an unbearably smug blog where he teaches amateur translators how it's really done.

>>52170420
>If you want to play this game, you can only do so by reducing your options to being a forest hermit that shapeshift into animal of choice.
>That's totally not an optimalisation!
Yeah, I've read. But have you spend at least a second on pondering what the fuck you are claiming?

>>52170424
But DSA is absolutely unknown outside Germany, so the guy wouldn't even know what game I'm referring to, calling bullshit due to "some obscure German shit"

>>52170430
So you are just some Romanian working in Germany for few months? Neat

>>52170424
>>52170411
DSA is the game in Germany, Pathfinder and D&D are also fairly popular.

>>52170408
A brown bear is not better than even an an average level 6 fighter. maybe your buddy is just retarded or didn't actually read the rules and just picked improved toughness for every feat.

>>52170446
Nope, but I worked as a consultant there, but declined the job because your country is Switzerland-tier boring

>>52170434
>I'm not paying attention to the discussion at hand at all
Go fuck yourself retard. No, picking one of the core classes to play as is not optimization unless you do it deliberately while knowing how broken it is. The original argument was that breaking 3.5 is hard. It's not, it's completely trivial.

>>52170446
>DSA is absolutely unknown outside Germany
Both 4e and 5e are available in English.

>>52170453
>Not taking well-paid job in a country with one of the highest HDI
Why don't you just say you've earned enough to live for another two years from your earnings in your homeland?

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>>52170454
>WHAAAAAAAA!
>STOP USING LOGIC ON MEEEEEE!
>STOOOOOOOP!
Delicious

>>52170449
Not that guy, but a brown bear better than level 6 fighter? No. A brown bear that can cast spells? Fuck yes.

>>52170453
I take offence. No country can hope to be more boring than Switzerland. We worked for centuries on perfecting the boredom in every aspect of life.

>>52170461
Different anon, but out of curiosity - is D&D 5e published in German? Not in Germany, but in German.

And I never heard about DSA, sorry. I'm assuming that's The Dark Eye, but that's literally what google gave me.

>>52170463
Because I got paid better when I crossed the Rhine back.
Plus
>having kids in Germany
All kinds of nope

>>52170480
This is what you get for inviting Calvin - eternal boredom.

>>52170472
>pick a core class
>WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH STOP OPTIMIZING
>logic
Nah, you're just retarded.

>>52170494
Zwingli > Calvin

>>52169674
It nurtured my creativity and writing, but >>52169715 has a very good point. It could have been another of the few RPGs I played. I supose >>52169848
is the defining reason, not that it is a bad one. Simplicity is hard to achieve.

>>52169859
Brazilian here. Our NEXT facebook group has 19.000 members, and it hasn't even been translated to portuguese.


>>52169704
It actually was harder to learn english, which has less rules than my native language and which I excelled at.

>>52170479
>implying spells are as overpowered as everybody claims and it's not just retarded theory-crafting
kek

>The original argument was that breaking 3.5 is hard. It's not, it's completely trivial.
>Breaking this system that has been analyzed to hell and back for years is trivial because we possess knowledge achieved by analyzing it to hell and back, even when compared to systems where completely mundane core elements are broken

>>52170483
>is D&D 5e published in German?
Sorry m8, I only have distant German ancestry, I don't know.

Yeah, DSA = Das Schwarze Auge, which is The Dark Eye in English (it's literally The Black Eye, but that doesn't sound quite as good). It has a reputation for complexity, which seems to be a running theme with systems popular in Germany, since SR is fairly complex itself. Weirdly, the Germans seem to be better at SR than the Americans.

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>>52170515
>Population: 208 mln
>Players: 19k facebook group
Wow, I'm impressed.

>>52170529
I will never understand how and why SR became such a smashing hit in Germany and keeps being highly popular over the years.
At least in case of D&D and Clappistan it all boils down to GIGANTIC marketing running for 40 years.

>>52170540
>I will never understand how and why SR became such a smashing hit in Germany and keeps being highly popular over the years.

Lofwyr's manipulations.

>>52170540
CP2020+D&D=Money

>>52170525
>Breaking this system that has been analyzed to hell and back for years is trivial because a large number of options in the corebook are obviously broken if your players play their wizards as anything but blasters or clerics as anything as healers or druids that take part in combat at all
FTFY

>>52170540
Germans like games with intricate rules systems, they like the mechanics of character building and shadowrun allows fantasy roleplaying without the weird associations you sometimes get between medieval fantasy and Nazi ideology.

>>52169704
you could do anything productive instead of playing /tg

>>52170555
Yeah, but CP2020 wasn't popular in Germany (unlike, say, Poland, where they still play it) and D&D was barely there at all back in the early 90s.
Besides, the exact same formula is pushing people away from SR all over the world, rather than generating cash.

>>52170563
So you are saying it's some sort of nation-wide "We are not total nerds, because this game is sci-fi, and not fantasy", while still indulging with the fact you can play as deliciously thicc she-orc, hack terminals and smash robots?

Well, I guess that could work as an explaination.

>>52170570
>the exact same formula is pushing people away from SR all over the world,
More like
>the dismal failure of CGL is pushing people away from SR all over the world
Germans have had actually competent companies in charge of SR (FanPro and Pegasus).

>>52169674
>That pic
>There is an illusion spell in anima, that makes you immortal because Death literally can't find you.

>>52170578
>So you are saying it's some sort of nation-wide "We are not total nerds, because this game is sci-fi, and not fantasy", while still indulging with the fact you can play as deliciously thicc she-orc, hack terminals and smash robots?
Nah. Nerd-Dom in Germany isn't actually as stigmatized as in the US, and DSA is still more successful. Germany just has a generally more pronounced "Sci-Fi direction" nerd scene, like we also have more cybergoths and stuff, so compared to the population it seemed to "blow up" when there just is more interest in general.

>>52170595
I guess it works even better with that explaination.

>>52170042
Minus all the memes, Canada and the US are basically the exact fucking same culturally.

Ontario = Midwest/New York
Maritimes = New England
British Columbia = Pacific Northwest
Alberta = Texas
Manitoba/Saskatchewan = Any "Literally Who?" state e.i. Wyoming, Iowa, Arkansas, etc.
The Territories = Alaska
Newfoundland = Florida
Quebec = Louisiana/California

>>52169674
D&D is the most widely known RPG and.its often the first RPG that people get into, so of course they'll have fond memories. Nostalgia is cocaine coated marbles in your mouth.

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>>52170042
Yeah, keep telling yourself Canada's not fucked.

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>>52170266
WotC and Hasbro get money not only selling books, but with other D&D related merch. And that was an investment that, after studies, was unlikely to break even.
They lost a good chunk of money with 4e, so they wanted to be sure the brand was reestablished before making another big move.

Anyway, they released the DSR a year ago, so other companies could get the set of rules to make their own "pathfinder" based on 5e. Something that two companies in Spain have already done right now.

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>>52170687
>Canada and the US are basically the exact fucking same culturally.
>Seriously and honestly being this wrong

>>52170759
That still doesn't explain why they've:
- made 5e in the first place
- are not selling it in non-English speaking countries

It's basically another dead-end marketing decisions.
Sometimes it feels like D&D and whoever holds rights to it at current time is basically Squenix of tabletop games: too big to collapse, regardless how many bad and outright malicious decisions are made, but having glory days long in the past too and now living solely on the brand recognition.

>>52170763
>Can't even come up with a counterargument

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>>52170823
>Le no counterargument meme
Why does idiots always think you need a counter-argumentation or should use sound logic against false or mistake-based logic loop?

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>>52169859
The five most popular RPGs in Russia are different editions of D&D and Pathfinder

>>52170862
You forgot Savage Worlds, GURPS, Fate and fucking *W, which are pretty popular.

>>52170823
you claimed the midwest was the same as NY and that Louisiana is the same as California. Do you honestly think your retarded claims deserve to be argued against?

>>52169877
Ypu either have no Internet or are lying. Justyna go on rebel.pl, IT Has most of the new stuff. WoD has a huge scean, neuroshima is as popular as dnd. Shadowrun has a niech. The problem we have is a very small amount of normal groups do you either are lucky abd do to school with someone who plays or are stuck with social outcasts that cant shit up about korwin

>>52169903
Im from warsow. Very little dnd groups. Most people know IT by Heart but dont play it

>>52170862
>I was born after 2000
This is adult-only site. Leave.

>>52170918
>I don't actually play games, I just look up the store.
Another Pole here and son, please stop making shit up. The fuck Korwin even has to do with the dead RPG scene?

Also - nice autocorrects

>>52170763
Lots of people think everywhere is the same as the US culturally. I blame Hollywood.

Shit, I've met people in Sweden who think the age of consent is 18, thanks to that shit.

>>52169750
I play mostly OD&D (with a few splats) or retroclones, and full on hipster narrativist shit. I also like Unknown Armies from having read the rulebook, but haven't had a chance to play it yet.

If I'm introducing someone new to the hobby, I'll absolutely use dat whitebox (or more likely some clone thereof with more fully outlined combat rules). I'm not pretending it's the only thing that exists. I just think it's still among the best.

What's wrong with that?

>>52170966
I was born in 1993, gramps.

>>52170117
Consider: I want to make a character who's good at climbing in 3.5. First I give him a strength score, from which I derive a strength mod, which I then apply to his climbing skill. Then I need to put ranks into the climbing skill - I do this by figuring out his intelligence score, deriving his intelligence mod, combining that with another number determined by my class to get the number of ranks I can assign. I then assign these ranks, but remember, the number of ranks can't exceed your level, and the first rank counts as three ranks! This is all before you roll any dice or consider any modifiers from equipment, environment, etc.

I get that we're dulled to this by paying our blood-tithe to the dark lord Hasbro for years, but D&D has tons of weird mechanical eccentricities like this that make it a lot more complicated than it really needs to be.

>>52170869
You forgot WoD, DH and Only War but they all are below D&D in popularity

>>52170989
Not much, its just every time i tryed to gamę with people outside from my social circle there would be someone WHO could not spend 5 min without talking about the fuck i dont even know much about his political linę and i hate him just for the fact that autists seem to love him. Also if you have a group just suggest a diferent system, thats how we got into fate. There are a dew polish groupa on rolld20 i think too

>>52171029
>Consider: I want to make a character who's good at climbing in 3.5. First I give him a strength score, from which I derive a strength mod, which I then apply to his climbing skill. Then I need to put ranks into the climbing skill - I do this by figuring out his intelligence score, deriving his intelligence mod, combining that with another number determined by my class to get the number of ranks I can assign
First of all, you're making this sound more complicated than it is by switching up the order. Generally you're not building a character to "be good at X", you have a concept and then translate that into the system. That backtracking thing you're implying only happens for char op and as such is completely irrelevant for regular char-building.

>but D&D has tons of weird mechanical eccentricities like this that make it a lot more complicated than it really needs to be.
>than it really needs to be

Nah. Skill rules serve a very specific purpose to find a certain sweet spot of competence at which you start. The "Level 1, 4 Ranks" thing may seem arcane, but it's very much necessary for a smooth progression later on. Honestly it's just a question of how much effort you want to expend to get the feeling you want.

And that's the point. Most stuff in DnD is based upon very logical considerations, which makes it incredibly easy to use once you understood the principles behind it. And while they may seem "eccentric" when presented out of context, they're super smooth in application (you can teach a complete rookie DnD char creation in about 30 minutes even while drunk).

Which is why DnD is so successful: It's simulationist while being easy, and underlying principles are logical enough to make improvising or modding it very comfortable.

>>52170748
>taking an incomplete quote as gospel

One google search and you wouldn't look like a retard, anon.

>>52169674
The system used isn't nearly as important as the people you play with. That being said. DnD is usually people's first game.

>>52171138
>Most stuff in DnD is based upon very logical considerations
A shame they threw all that shit out when they were unifying the mechanics for 3e.

>>52171161
>A shame they threw all that shit out when they were unifying the mechanics for 3e.
>Complaining about skills in 3.5
>The edition where skill difficulties are literally based on real life Olympic Records
>the edition where they removed "X% chance to lift gate"
u wot m8?

>>52170877
It was an fucking joke dumbass. The point was that Canada and the US are culturally incredibly similar. Obviously they aren't the same country nor do they have the exact same culture. Calling Newfoundland a Canadian Florida should have made it obvious enough. We obviously aren't the same goddamn country, but it isn't the same as comparing apples to oranges. They're culturally very close due to their largely British origins, plus the fact that up until the Revolution, they were pretty much the same. You can't really talk about Canada as a country without making comparisons to the US at some point, since we're pretty much inseparable from them. The point of comparing different regions was the satirize similarities, such as comparing Newfoundland to Florida as they are both seen respectively as a land of rednecks and nutjobs, and really fucking wet. They're completely different obviously, but thats not the point of the joke. The point was satirizing our similarities.

>>52171138
>It's simulationist while being easy
Only 3.PF is like that, tho, anon.

>>52171138
Avoid this poster; he's either trolling or deluded to the point that engaging him is pointless.

>>52171217
Yeah, but that was obviously something the market wanted, judging by how massively it blew up and by how hard 4E bombed.

>>52169987
great well just change it to Specific Universal Role Playing System and it'll sell like hot cakes

>>52171243
Well, 5e has 4e's skill system, and it's massively popular.

>>52171035
Exactly how old are you to have any contact at all with Korwin worshippers? I mean... shit son, aren't you too young to use this page? Or at least below 20?

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>>52171203
>When caught on sprouting bullshit, claim it was a joke
>Then continue to make even bigger ass out of yourself

>>52169674
finally leopard !

>>52169859
Russia.
DnD 5 + Pathfinder and little more GURPS and WoD. This is 90% of all games.

>>52169674
Because it was the first, it's had multiple booms of popularity and a moral panic about it that make sure that everyone knows what it is even if they don't play it, and while this has stopped being the case due to Atari being shit, along with Shadowrun it's one of the only RPGs that have had more than one actually good video games that increase brand awareness.

Do the rules have much to do with this? No, not really, unless you count not being FATAL-tier bad.

>>52170449
Brown bears actually are better than the average level 6 Fighter. They're only worse against a handful of builds: a 2H Fighter, a chain tripper, and a Dungeoncrasher. One of those isn't even in core(and thus if you're going tit for tat, opens up horrible shit like Magebred Bears and Fleshrakers), one of the others is reliant on full attacks to not suck complete ass, and the last gets stonewalled by monsters immune to Trip.

I mean, a level 6 sword and board Fighter is is doing, what, +12/+7 1d10+7 with a +1 bastard sword and Gauntlets of Ogre Power +2 that they can barely afford for that level? And that's wasting feats specifically on minor damage increases because it's not like you have much else to take. Bear's doing +11/+11/+6 1d8+8 claw and 2d6+4 bite, which is blatantly better than the Fighter's full attack, and that's with no magic items or Druid buffs whatsoever.

But you know, keep pretending that that's petty or I'm wrong or whatever, as if this hasn't been known for over 10 years now.

>>52171496
I've missed something? I'm outside of that shithole for two years and suddenly DnD is popular? What the fuck

>>52170372
>virtue signalling
>on fucking 4chan
Do you even know what the term means? This is an anonymous fucking image board, and to top it off he posted an opinion that goes against the common consensus here (or at least, one that goes against the loud minority). That's the fucking opposite of virtue signaling.

ACTUAL virtue signaling is done where the people who agree with you can clearly see it, with your identity flying like a fucking flag. It is not a synonym for "someone disagreeing with /pol/".

>>52170525
Oh it's you, keep pretending that Dazing Spell isn't blatantly broken or that Sacred Geometry doesn't literally give you free metamagic you fucking retard.

>>52172294
Please don't feed him. Now he's going to come bick with some ridiculous bullshit like "it's your fault for allowing splatbooks", as if core wasn't broken already, or "cheap knockoff D&D doesn't count" or something.

>>52169704
lets be realistic. how much use is the average joe really going to get out of foreign languages? I know a guy that speaks 5 languages fluently. you know how often he actually uses them? almost never.

>>52172311
I wish, he'll just pretend that the rules don't work that way.

>>52170067
>Why are Poles so Christian?
Because communism and atheism was forced on them by their enemies, the Russians, so several generations grew up hating it.

>>52170250
It's not straw, anon. Don't worry, the US will be waiting to annex, er, liberate you when the time comes.

>>52171879
It has always been popular. The fact that you played indie, your problem.

>>52174018
>GURPS
>Warhammer
>Indie

Try harder

>>52170042
The only thing Canadians do is scream loudly that they're not Americans. Even if America collapses soon, you will ALWAYS be a country that is only spoken about when they are comparing you to America. Get rekt, nerd.

>>52175641
>you will ALWAYS be a country that is only spoken about when they are comparing you to America
Not Canadian nor Clappistani and this literally never applies out here. So stay butt-mad, burger

>>52177230
Anon, I'm not going to take your bait if you're going to be this blatant about it.

>>52170020
TFW you never know if Pole posting posting pope is genuine or it is another cenzopapa meme.

Also if you are that guy from Gdańsk and looking for player, leave a post in a thread.

>>52169873
>Protip: Fun isn't quantifiable

John Stuart Mill disagrees.

>>52169674

I haven't read through the entire thread, just glanced, but I think one thing a lot of people overlook is how well supported DnD is. DnD, more than any other system I'm aware of, has an ENORMOUS amount of published content and modules for you to read through and either copy wholesale or to inspire other games.

Will a great DM need that stuff? Of course not. But most DMs aren't great DMs and never will be. For them, having access to pre-published material, if nothing else something that's been playtested once or twice to make sure the monsters are at a reasonable challenge level for the expected party is an enormous boon, especially if you're not overly familiar with the system in question.

At least IMO, that, more than any mechanical or even nostalgia reasons, is why DnD is the biggest one out there. They understand the social dynamic that most games are played around, and market supplemental material accordingly.

>>52170334
Does it have a G.U.R.P.S. edition?

>>52169674
>Is D&D popular for good reason?
It was the largest system back at the time. RPG systems tend to have more value the more people who play it: more players means that it is easier to find other players to play the game, and easier to find material for the game. It means that more people talk about it and more people just think "D&D" when RPG topics come up. Just think of how many stories about D&D PCs you've heard, compared to how many Shadowrun stories or World of Darkness stories you've heard.

And then D&D3e came around, with its OGL and the SRD. The entire system basically became free (so more people playing) and nearly everyone was publishing material for it (so more supplementary material). The whole thing got a massive following, which meant that finding a D&D game was even easier - and so new players were most likely to get into D&D.

>>52169674
>Is D&D popular for good reason?
Depends on the edition.

B/X is wonderful even without nostalgia factors.

AD&D is only popular because it marketed itself as Advanced and they spammed adverts everywhere.

3.5's popularity hinges entirely on the OGL and the "you don't even need other systems!" meme it created

PF is popular because it rides 3.5's coattails.

4e is unpopular because it discarded 3.5's munchkin-friendly approach and the OGL

5e is popular because "it's 3.5 but less shit"

Among normies and rpg virgins it's only popular because of the brand name, like McDonalds

>>52178326
>>52178655

>If I publish A FUCKTON of shit, it magically becomes less foul-smelling!

Fucking cancer.

>>52169674
>Is D&D popular for good reason?
Besides the brand? Yes, the wealth of material and the availability of players (in a number of countries at least). System- and setting-wise, D&D is mediocre (but not terribad!). Which is enough to leverage the aforementioned properties.

>>52178724
I never called D&D good or bad. I never mentioned quality at all. What I did mention was POPULARITY, and for that, you need to look at why people play D&D over other system.

Yes, D&D was advertised like fuck, but why do people sitting down around a table frequently play D&D (or now, Pathfinder) instead of pulling out Savage Worlds, Tunnels & Trolls, or RuneQuest? Because almost everyone familiar with RPGs is going to be familiar with D&D, everyone has some familiarity with how the system works and what is expected, and everyone can put together a character and get the game rolling without worrying about learning a new system.

A popular system, even a shit popular one, is going to get more playtime simply due to familiarity. And when everyone is playing the system, it points more new players towards it, which increases its popularity further.

You probably can't name the big problems with various D&D editions outside "quadratic wizards" anyways, so off your damn high horse.

>>52178724
They didn't say more content=better game, they said more content=more popularity.
And 3.PF is the only version that's absolute shit.

>>52169860
>OSR is chock-full of games building off of OD&D/AD&D
There's a distinction to be made between LBB and OD&D, but OD&D and AD&D are pretty much the same thing.
Plus /osrg/, and the OSR movement in general, mostly concerns itself with B/X (et al.)

I am critical of D&D but I would never claim that there is no good material for it out there. With the ewalth of material available, there most certainly is. The average quality of the material is mediocre though.

>>52169860
>The D&D settings are also pretty cool, Planescape in particular.
It's okay. But nothing that justifies D&D's singular standing in the hobby. That standing can only be explained through path dependency.

>/tg/ is in that place where a huge amount of people hate it and yet the 5e and PF generals thrive
We don't have, there's just a number of people who think it's more important than it should be.

>>52169735
Actually, 4e was full of useless and redundant rules and powers as well. Feats might as well not have existed. Same in 5e. 5e also keeps in the stupid-ass ASI rule and adds a bunch of rules to counteract for it, instead of just saying "you have stat X and that's not going to change" so that your stats actually mean something about your character instead of just being a measure of how far you are away from leveling up to the hardcap of 20.

>>52170373
Command animals much?

>>52170400
>In the games I played in? They absolutely did.

The first game I played in I complained about a fighter with 20 AC being overpowered. Your anecdotal evidence doesn't mean shit. Also most people don't play 3.5 at the ridiculous power level as /tg/, I didn't run OP casters until I'd played the game for 4 or 5 years. Mostly because I didn't play casters, but still.

>>52179972
>Feats might as well not have existed
>4e

Most of optimizing a character comes from feat selection.
Plus all the math fixes were published as feats.

Feats are extremely important for your character in 4e.