Is there ever a time and place to kill a party member? In

Pvp or a monster / npc to kill a PC?

I have when I confronted a party member about the fact he had been stealing from us for months. He gave a sob story. Told him no, fuck off, I'm taking him to the authorities. He tried to stab me. We fought. I came out alive.

>>52169268
>>52169291
Normally it's best to wait for a valid reason, like given as example here. If a party member is actively acting against the party in some manner, through theft or other means, killing them is fine.

I plan to kill a very greedy Cleric in my current party, when I discover IC he's been hoarding any loot he finds for himself.

>>52169268
If they are actively acting out of the interest of the party and there is a big dynamic shift confront them ic, it vould end up in a duel or treachery and then you could possibly kill the other pc or they could kill you. It probably wont stop the person in question from being a fuckwit in the future though

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>>52169268
>Playing heroic noblebright campaign
>BBEG basically tries to tempt us with UNLIMITED power and shit when we confront him
>That Guy actually accepts his offer
>Rest of us kill That Guy during the ensuing boss fight while he's trying to defend the BBEG.
>That Guy whines and bitches about the DM allowing PvP in his game.

Does this sound like a legitimate reason?

>play as a lawful good paladin.
>not being "that guy" whenever other pcs do minor unjust acts
>just simply voice my disapproval and take no action in it
>latest session has us following a criminal into a ghetto part of the city.
>eventually lose him in the slums and get bumrushed by muggers.
>dm makes a lot of emphasis on their shoddy clothing and dirty faces.
>we're basically fighting homeless people.
>quickly knock all of them out, ensuring no casualties
>seems like the right thing to do
>that guy decides that these people may be in association with the criminal and starts interrogating.
>first thing "that guy" does is decides to cut off he's fucking legs.
>he's fuckings legs.
>'it'll incentiivise him to talk', 'it's what my character would do since he's a spy'
>I put my foot down on this , nod to two other players in our group to put the poor man out of his misery.
>the other paladin goes to heal the leg less man.
>still won't get back his legs and is in shock
>he agrees with "that guy" and wants to interrogate him
>decide that enough is enough and put the guy out of his misery.
>paladin stands in our way along with "that guy"
>'we have to keep interrogating him' says paladin
>start wondering why this lawful good paladin hasn't fallen yet
>amongst the in game arguing the wizard decides to burn the man to death.
>just fucking what.
>paladin and "that guy" decide they now want to fight me , the fighter and wizard.

So unless of intervention of the dm and seems like I'm going to fight these two spergs , should I do it and possibly kill them?

>>52169268
> In game I mean...
That's suspiciously specific, anon. Do you want to talk about it?

>>52169805
Do it for all that is lawful good

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>>52169268
If you are a GM and the players are not being cunts during the game the only times killing a character is acceptable is when they make huge mistake, put themselves at risk on purpose or are just very unlucky. But it is good to try and make their deaths as meaninful and/or cool as possible.

Now, if you mean when you are are a player and intends to kill another player's character, that is complicated. If the player is being a cunt and ruining it for everyone you shouldn't be playing with that player anyway, killing the character may be a way to either make the player stop being a jerk or force the player to stop playing with you, but that's not a nice thing to do.

But there could be times in which one player character may be in a situation that can make a duel not only possible but adequate. The villains turn out to have very legitimate reasons behind their actions and the party may split and a fight to the death may happen. One of the players needs to be put down due to a terrible character flaw that makes the character a risk of some kind and the current situation makes it impossible to not put the character down, such as lynchantropy, vampirism, a mental instability, a curse or uncontrolable mutation that requires a saving throw and it fails. Even being bribed by the villains into betraying the team, if the character fails to resist the offer or simply finds it to be in character to accept the offer, it could work.

As long as it makes sense inside the narrative it could be a great way to make the plot interesting and to give the character a cool death.

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>>52169268
>Level 1 party, just started out. Our first plot hook is finding a disguised cultist in ruins of a village
>Party + cultist get attacked goblins. Said cultist is clearly a much more capable fighter than us. But that's okay, because we're not enemies, just mutually suspicious allies for now
>After goblins are defeated, a large party of armed men, on horseback, turn up. Turns out, cultist has friends - and they're here to find their agent. Like I said, we're not enemies for now, so we ooc we begin discussing how we can talk our way out of this.
>Leader of horsemen, also clearly a much more capable fighter than us (which wouldn't be hard because at this point everything is, with the exception of goblins) announces that he has come to claim the village
>Dwarf player: 'I swing my hammer at him.'
>see pic for our reaction

Luckily our DM wasn't in a hanging mood, and although the leader and the agent outclassed us, the guys with him were just ordinary henchmen. Also luckily for us the fight with the goblins levelled us up, and I got a taste of how overpowered mages are in D&D as I, with my newly acquired magic missiles, went one-on-one with the agent and killed her, while the rest of my party combined took on the leader and his henchmen (there's a longer a more embarrassing version of that fight, but that's not the point of the story so I won't go into it here).

Suffice to say, out of simple self preservation it seems like it would be a good idea to simply kill the dwarf next time and pretend he was our enemy too. And knowing the guy playing the dwarf, there will be a next time

I've killed other PCs before, only because of betrayal though.

I've been the DM for my party just over a year now, we have had 14 PvP related deaths,12 of those were because the party cant get along and fight over every little thing.The other 2 were because I had the party face a moral dilemma.

>>52170402
magic missile is fun but if you want bullshit stuff look into cloud spells, color spray at low levels, and honestly conjuration in general.

>>52169268
If all the players are in agreement that actions have consequences and they all know that their characters might very well clash and fight at some point, then there is a place to kill a party member.

An example from my most recent game:
>5e dnd
>no wizards/sorcerers allowed: magic can only be cast thanks to spirits that roam the astral plane surrounding our reality
>druids, clerics, bards, paladins and rangers ask the spirits in order to cast their spells
>warlocks drain the spirits dead by being a proxy of their patron, who shares the power of the spirits with the warlock for them to cast spells
>be playing a warlock
>have a druid in the group
>all other casters hate warlocks and want to kill them/stop them
>the party is a group of slave-gladiators for now
>GM already told us that we would stay slaves until level 3
>as soon as we are free, the druid is going to try and kill my warlock

But we're both mature people and so we know that one of our characters might kick the bucket because of this.

>>52170456
They tried betraying you?

>>52171036
>spirits that roam the astral plane
I thought i wandered into /srg/ for a moment there

>>52169268
If they frogpost, then that is the time.

>>52169268
Please, no frogposting on /tg/.

>>52171290
>>52171302
Did a frog piss in your cheerios?

>>52169401
>That Guy whines and bitches about the DM allowing PvP in his game.
What, exactly, did he expect when he turned on the party?

I've done it a few times, even tho I will generally seek diplomacy first and foremost, and give a pc a few chances to show they aren't a twat.
Best example would be when 2 pcs (warlock and fighter thing) decided to viciously torture my prisoner (was playing a paladin) while we were all in prison and I was in the same building, but not the same room.
I was afk when it happened, but the DM told me flat out I heard my prisoner screaming. I confronted the both of them later, and politely asked them to refrain from such acts, or I would be forced by my oaths to take them to task for such cruelties.
The fighter thing apologized, explaining that in the situation, he saw few alternatives, and promised to work with me for better solutions.
The warlock grumbled to himself "doing what others can't" and "getting shat on for doing his part", which I ignored.
>I also had buffed myself to the stratosphere before talking to them with every combat buff I had that day, and visibly released them in front of them to show them I had come prepared for trouble even if I preferred diplomacy
>big stick, big voice
>and no, no one in the party trespassed on me again

>>52171656
No, but frogposting clearly shows off how you are a newfag that hasn't lurked nearly enough, and drops you to the level of a robot shitposter.

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>>52169401
>explicitly sides with the BBEG over the party
>gets killed
>talks shit about the DM for allowing the party to kill him
please tell me you made this up

>>52169268
>Only War
>Experienced player playing commissar
>Rest of party....not so experienced
>One is playing a psyker
>Starts spouting dumb shit like a stereotypical 40k noob
>At one point yells "Blood for the blood god!"
>Commissar caps him
>GM tells him to stop being fucking retarded, read the lexicanum some time, and make a new character

Sounds frustrating, but the PCs were dying left and right anyways so it was just more funny than anything.

>>52172305
>Sounds absolutely logical
The psyker asked for it, and got it.

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>>52172305
>At one point yells "Blood for the blood god!"
>Commissar caps him
>GM tells him to stop being fucking retarded, read the lexicanum some time, and make a new character
Comedy gold.

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>>52169805
yes
and be smug as fuck about it
you killed a criminal and a fallen paladin
your god will be pleased

>>52169805
Smite them

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>>52169805
Yes. You butcher them because that is not how civilized people act and if they want to play the part they can be put down like animals. It's not smiting as much as it is putting down rabid beasts.

>>52169268

'Never without a Player's permission' is a good general rule.

Talk about it out of character. If your characters come to a disagreement that dire you can either come up with a plan to resolve the conflict verbally in character or come to a, "May the best man win" agreement. If you're the GM, same rules apply. If your party makes a mistake and tries to tackle a insurmountable task pull some punches to give them a chance to retreat or escape as long as it makes sense. Scare them. But don't kill them. If they want to take an action that will result in their death check if they're sure and inform them that it will likely result in their death. If they agree than let them die(or live depending on the dice)

>>52173172
>If you're the GM, same rules apply
I do believe most games come with the implicit agreement that character death is in fact a running consequence, and the players need not be coddled with warnings that they are sticking their necks out.

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>>52173259
I agree with that if you're using a generally lethal system. I still like to not bum a player out by just killing him with a sniper rifle because the group rolled poorly on their awareness checks.

But if they go hey-diddle-diddle right up the middle after I chided them for it maybe they deserve it. Maybe just a limb, or an eye tho. So they can learn from it.

>>52173486
>I still like to not bum a player out by just killing him with a sniper rifle because the group rolled poorly on their awareness checks.
And I actually have little issue with doing that, if it serves the narrative and situation of the game. In games with long guns, they are generally powerful, and more often than not, the players will be the one using them.
Then the librarian had her eye shot out.

>>52169318
Not if I get to you first.

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>>52169268

>Option 1
Tell the party you're slipping away. Hand note to the GM telling them you use all your cash to hire mercenaries to kill your teammate(s). Return to party as if nothing happened.

>Option 2
Get into a tough fight. Abandon teammate(s). Make it hard for them to escape by setting up traps, locking/blocking doors, etc.

>>52175720
>Hand note to the GM telling them you use all your cash to hire mercenaries to kill your teammate
It's actually not that hard to do that.
I once had a teammate kidnapped and tortured.

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>>52169268

Generally, PvP only really occurs when players get legitimately angry at each other for IC actions. And the end result is usually people just fuming over it.

There may be times where narratively it seems it should happen but overall I prefer when it doesn't.

>>52176832
>Generally, PvP only really occurs when players get legitimately angry at each other for IC actions
Just because you've dealt with shit players doesn't mean the rest of us have them in their group.

>>52176946
PvP usually happens when one player does something immensely offensive to the rest of the group's sensibilities. Sometimes that act is attacking another player or stuff like >>52176758

How is any of that not being a crummy player?

>>52169268
if both players agree to it for drama and because one of them wants to change pace.

Or if their character started being a shit lord that was using their actions against the rest of the party. There's certain rpg groups I'm part of where I have to always make a character who is capable of directly counter acting one of the other player's abilities because they are -exactly- that sort of shitlord.

>>52169805
Dude, I play paladins of Ilmater. The most paladiny paladins who ever paladined. True noble bright dudes.

And I'm telling you, here and now, you are doing the work of Ilmater to kill those bastards.

>>52176979
Good players can separate IC actions, bad players can't.
Good players accept that acting in line with your character's personal code, ethics and approach is what makes a game engaging, even if that leads to clashing within a group.
Good players expect interpersonal conflict and turn it into new situations and character growth.

Bad players are what you are talking about, and it is tiring to see people talking about bad players and assuming EVERYONE else is also a bad player.

>>52170402
>(there's a longer a more embarrassing version of that fight, but that's not the point of the story so I won't go into it here)
oh come on, you can't just leave us hanging like that

Depends really. I've played games where it was generally understood that all our characters were a bunch of untrustworthy psychopaths working together only for mutual benefit, and in those circumstances I'd have been neither surprised nor angered if one of the other players had decided to go pvp for one reason or another.

But if it's a traditional scenario where the GM has put work into putting together a game which more or less requires the party to work together then no, don't be a cunt, work issues out OOC.

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>>52169268
>That player who PvPs other PCs but aplogizes OOC the whole way through

>>52169268
>Playing Lawful Neutral Life Cleric
>Monk has been carrying around cursed sword for a few weeks
>Some guy tells him to throw it away
>Monk can't take his hands off it
>He tries anyways
>Sword goes flying through the air
>everyone in the vicinity fails a Wis save and starts fighting for the sword
>A couple turns later and a few failed wis saves, I am standing over the parties Warlock with the sword in my hand.

DM even gave me some RP experience for actually going through with it.

One character betrayed and overtime killed off the party, which had before that character joining, been through thick and thin together and had life and world changing adventures.

Shame that by the time we settled on it, it was too late.

When both you and the other player verbally agreed to it beforehand.

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Lads how the fuck do I get my DM(s) to kill someone?

we've been playing for nearly 5 years and none of us have died, I feel like the DMs are scared to. I was the one who DM'd at the beginning, only ran about 8 sessions total I think, then I got comfortable playing - so I didn't really have time to kill anyone. We have one DM who is running a big campaign in 3.5, which has been probably about 14 sessions total, and an alt DM who runs 5e, who has run about 10 sessions [also another one who did 3 sessions in 3.5 then never ran again]. I wouldn't mind dying myself at all, but it never seems to even come close to happening.

I feel like they're going to be in for a rude awakening when I start running Cyberpunk 2020 in a few weeks. I don't want them to think I'm being a dick because I'm playing by the rules, I don't want them to think I'm spoiling the fun if they don't want their characters to die. I know there's no point playing if there's no stakes involved, but I don't think that's how they see it.

>>52169291
Can't tell if in character or not.

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>>52172156

>>52172990
sauce

>>52183998
Run an intro one-shot with premades

It's a great way to cover a new system's mechanics, set the tone, and give people a chance to feel classes and abilities out.

>>52169318


What about when the party acts against you? What do you do then?

If you want it for narrative punch, clear it with the player first.
If you do it right, watching the party's veteran paladin sacrifice himself so the rest of the party can escape from the bbeg they weren't ready to fight yet, for example, it's a great story move and delivers an emotional gut punch to the rest of the party. But make sure the player is ok with it well in advance.

Alternatively, if Timmy the wizard is being a murderhobo retard, then him being executed on death row after torching 2 towns is also appropriate.

If it's a more casual meatgrinder game, then let dice decide, but if it's more story based and people are invested in their characters, save it for a good time.
Don't let them know you won't kill them though, or you'll get people who try dumb shit because "he dm will only kill us in plot. I can totally catapult myself into the keep!"

Kill these players. Make examples of them.

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>>52169268
>Playing Only War
>Party is Operator, Medic, Ogryn, and Commissar, plus comrades and a few NPC guardsmen
>Currently fighting Orks
>On a mission behind enemy lines to blow up a hardened fuel refinery
>Everything is going well, getting close to the spot where we're going to plant the bomb, Orks don't notice us shooting the place up over the artillery barrage on the surface
>Enter fuel-distribution room and see it's littered with body parts and scrap metal, and occupied by a Mek, Dok, and a large scrapheap
>We all open fire, Mek uses a shield, and some gretchins are being problematic, but Dok is badly injured and the fight's looking good
>Dok manages to throw a lever and scream "ITZ ALIVES" before dying to mass las-fire
>Scrapheap rears up
>Oh shit, that's a Kan
>Oh shit, three of us are in melee range of it
>Try to close in and disable it and fuck our rolls out the ass
>Ogryn flat out dies trying to block its saw-arm, so does his comrade. Medic does just as bad and burns fate to only lose an arm. Operator takes a bad hit from Mek, but manages to dodge Kan and turns back to pickup the Medic
>Operator sees dead and dying comrades and Kan coming towards him with saw-arm ready, catastrophically fails a fear test, and runs for it.
>Commissar has been back with the guardsmen and other two comrades, directing las-fire and the readying of anti-tank grenades, but guardsmen are wavering after seeing the PCs get so fucked up.
>As Operator blows past their line at full sprint, Commissar turns, takes aim, and headshots him with her boltpistol
>Screams "NOT ONE STEP BACK" and turns to aim at the NPCs
>Morale is restored!
>A hail of krak grenades takes care of the Kan and Mek with only a few casualties
>Bomb is planted, escape is made (with the medic) and glorious victory is declared

Best PC death I've had yet. DM let me resume playing as my comrade next session.

>>52185700
That does sound pretty cool

>>52169268
No. Unless it's entirely in self defense, even if it's perfectly in character, you will be the asshole, even if you PK'd That Guy.
Instead, let them get themselves killed. Make it look like you tried your hardest to save him. Give notes or PMs to the DM claiming that you are intentionally failing those Heal checks to resuscitate.

>>52183998
Do something suicidal. Who will do it if not you?

>>52169268
Yes. When the DM takes you aside and says "Listen man, I hate pvp but I really feel like you should kill his character. I don't wanna say why, I just... Just do it, alright? Its in your best interest"

And that players character, who you refuse to kill, ruins a 2 year old campaign.

That is an appropriate time to kill a player. Or if my DM had been on the ball, just kick his ass out, but we didn't know what was up til the last day, due to possession bullshit (and thus denied any sense motive or perception checks to see that the player was possessed by... a second personality?)

Every alliance I had made was turned on me and I was never given recourse or opportunity to stop via rp or otherwise.

I was mad. I'm still mad. Imploded our dnd group and set the other players against the DM permanently.

>>52185700
baller. glad you were cool with it, as far as deaths go thats a good one storywise.

>>52187026

elaborate

>>52187151
I'm bad at storytelling through text. You wont enjoy it.

>>52187162
Do it anyway.

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>>52187377
Well alright.

We had been playing for about a year and a half when Rick joined.

I played a Lawful Neutral dread necromancer called Quintin Laramoore. He was described as a combination of Keyser Soze, Barney the Dinosaur, and Skeletor.

He wanted to use his talents to empower the people. Ultimatel,y he drove them away, and himself mad! (Mirroring my own spiral into a pit of depression)

We had established ourselves as a powerful group, propping up the existing regime and the status quo in order to ensure that the people of spyria could continue to enjoy their tenuous quality of life.

High politicking game. Sometimes would go weeks without combat. These were 5-12 hour sessions, every saturday.

Rick made a psychic paperboy. For some reason the DM let him. (this will be my mantra during this story btw)

>Would you like to hear more?

>>52187411
>asking if /tg/ wants storytime
Justdoit.mp4

>>52187411
To his credit Rick went all out with his paperboy concept. He printed up his own high quality magazine wherein he hid many different puzzles and clues implying my character was a hideous monster hell bent on destroying Spyria. He giggled everytime I so much as glanced at it.

I wasn't very good at puzzle solving in my mentally distressed state, so I ended up failing to see most of the clues. Caught a few but I chalked it up to coincidence or meta-plot from the DM.

He would monologue for a solid few minutes in the middle of regular activities such as combat, exploration or discussing intrigue with an important NPC. If we commented on what he espoused, he would ask if we had telepathy as otherwise this was an internal statement he was making. I am not sure, but the DM may have encouraged it for some god awful reason.

The entire party asked him to knock it off as it failed to contribute anything to game. He declined. Eventually we took what was said in his monologues at face value and would confront him. He would OOC deny it all and refuse to engage IC.

For reasons unknown rick would scream at delivery folks. Just tear them a new asshole. These were people we had dealt with for years from our favourite pizza joints. It was disconcerting the say the least as they hadn't done anything different or wrong that they normally did.

He would purchase meals and kit for the DM out of his own pocket. I believe in exchange for the DM's friendship and his leniency in game.

He actively attempted to recruit players out of game against my character. Usually after he offered to pay for meals or other treats. "Oh, isnt quintin so evil? He's just the worst, we should definitely do something about that"

He and the DM sent hundreds of emails back and forth describing what his character did behind everyone's back. We were never privy to these meetings. No NPC ever came forward to inform us, nor were we given checks to find this out.

>would you like to hear more?

>>52169268
>That guy plays a "insane" character
>I had to put him to sleep EVERY TIME we had a prolonged interaction with an NPC
>10/10 that guy, would try to steal from merchants set random fires and refuse to sleep in inns because he didn't want to pay the 10s or whatever
>Once he got bored and just straight murdered a key NPC
>I had just let a player take over DMing for the first time and he just walked all over him


I just got fed up and killed his character in his sleep after like the third session, he got pissed but honestly it was like babysitting an autistic child.

>>52187561

yes go on

also yes to any future >would you like to hear mores

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>>52187561
In the final battle against the forces of chaos, he convinced the mages guild to turn on me in the middle of combat. 20 disintegration rays from eleven lv 8 spell casters and one lv 15. (Again, the DM making... questionable decisions)

Due to some ring of the bodyguard and lich shenanigans I survived, and dropped out of the sky to try to find cover for myself. An ally saw this happen and promptly chased after the traitorous mages.

I recovered my nerve, and healed myself. Than I proceeded to tackle the biggest threat on the field of battle. The enemies Thunderbird, replete with a howdah containing their commanders and war mages.

I land and kill their leaders and warmages with some assistance from my allies. Rick shows up with his paperboy, but is knocked off his flying carpet. I leave him on the thunderbird given his recent betrayal and he brings up a storm of whining ooc. He complains about how unfair it is, how could I as a player do this, and so on.

Not being in an ooc healthy state of mind I relent and bring him onto my magic carpet. He immediately succeeds on throwing me off of it, and starts to cackle viciously IC, sort of mostly. He begins to taunt me, telling me how he has "staged my downfall and that he will be my doom!"

>mfw this is literally the first time IC he has acted anyway other than Jimmy Olsen to my superman.

He casts death urge on the thunderbird and commands it to dive into the ground headfirst.

I take fall damage, plus half the thunderbirds fall damage. Something like 20d6+(10d6x2)

Again I survive due to luckily low damage rolls, and undead toughness. My bodyguard bursts into a pile of gore however.

So... I get out from under the wing of the thunderbird, bones jutting out left and right, torn to shit, almost dead and I look up into the sky to see most of our skyships destroyed. Our men fleeing. The battle lost and I feel so angry. SO FUCKING ANGRY.

>Would you like t- ahh fuck it.

>Cont.

>>52169805
>he's fucking legs.
>he's fuckings legs.
>he's
How do you even make a mistake like that?

>>52187687
I can feel the rage building already.

>>52187687
I raise my hands to the sky and scream defiance. I've lost my staff, my armour is shredded, my magic carpet is lost or destroyed.

I open my murder bag of holding and pull out all the onyx I have left.

I take hold of the thunderbirds wing and cast animate dead. Fast zombie specifically. I was so sick and tired of this bullshit.

I was tired of being treated like a second class citizen from the people I had sworn to protect.

All the petty plots and subterfuge. Quintin used to be a merchant. Then he tried to be a saviour and he failed.

I rose into the sky on the back of that fucking thunderbird and tried to take my fucking campaign back.

The other players are hurt, bleeding and wounded. I rally them to me. I use empathetic healing to bring them back to full hp, while healing myself with my inherent touch attacks.

I strike down my enemies with fingers of death and claw them out of the sky with khelgores grave mist.

I animate their bodies with my metamagics and last, when I've dented their fleet, and truly bled them I throw down my last gauntlet.

I stab my magic murder bag.

And I release ~300 shadows in the midst of their fleet.

All hungry for life, and the only life easily available happens to be my enemies. My petty, ignorant ignoble enemies who have insisted on being a thorn in my side while I bring peace to these lands. Civilization to these savages who call themselves nobles.

>Dont you dare fucking leave

>>52187690
probably typing on mobile

>>52187792
>>52187690
That or he is pissed off.

>>52187772
>Dont you dare fucking leave

Type faster! I need to go to work soon and I will have to wait till my lunch break.

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>>52187772
Their ships burn as they crash scattering the shadows inhabiting them, but killing few.

I've created a scourge across the 7 deserts of the spyria that will last for generations to come but I've run out of fucks to give.


I reach the enemies ziggurat temple with my party. The mercenary company we had hired, my few boon companions, and the lizardess who I managed to bring back to my side with a healthy dose of TRUTH.

Damn near every surviving NPC is there, and all of them geared for war.

These were MY people. MY allies. Yet I found them in bed with the enemy. Apparently between the honeyed poison of Rick and finding out that I traveled to the past, created the lost empire they were based on, went mad, destroyed it and became their mad lich bogeyman in the present made them distrust me.

Oh. Forgot to mention that did I. [This explains everything](https://youtu.be/a_QfUT-CIEw?t=23s)

I bust out every shared moment of empathy and trust we've had in the last 2 years of campaign. I throw the fact I've saved their city a half dozen times at them. I talk about how I healed his father, or raced with him in the grand sand-ship tourney.

I am met with nothing but blank states and steel.

I dont take part. I get backstabbed from behind and the party cleans them up. I am desperately trying to prevent them from killing each other and I cant. I cant stop this massacre.

THey wont believe me. They wont TRUST me. I GAVE UP EVERYTHING FOR THEM. I GAVE UP MY LIFE, MY FAMILY FOR THEM.

They died. To a man. The DM statted them all out as lv 20 fighters. We were lv 12. We destroyed them.

Long story short I turned my back on my people and walked into the desert. I had a destiny to fulfill apparently, and had to unlock the secrets to a new school of magic, chronomancy. I would fix this. I would fix all of it. If it was the last thing I did...

Epilogue incoming

>>52187901
Wow. Talk about a very bitter victory.

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>>52187901
Rick and the DM get up and congratulate themselves on an amazing campaign. Everyone else is disgusted at what just happened.

I had been the central character for a while, but the amount of shit the DM fiat'd to try and kill me, to get rid of me, or otherwise shit on my day is still spoken about, a half decade later.

I explain to rick with pic related what his input meant to the campaign. He took offence to this. Rick is a 300+ pound land whale of a man. At the time I was a 6'3" 160lb stick. I have never been closer to murdering someone with the pathfinder PHB than that moment. The discussion continues to the parking lot where I am tearing him a new asshole for his toxic behaviour.

"Whats the problem man, its just a game?"

Which is about the point my other 250lb bouncer buddy gently grabbed my elbow and walked me away. He thought, and to this day states, I was about to punch Rick in the throat. I was thinking about it, but I probably wouldn't actually do it.

Rick continued this attitude in future games, getting that DM to ban me from his games until I apologized for my rude behaviour.

He was shortly afterwards kicked out by mass revolt of the group on grounds that Rick is a poisonous and possibly crazy manipulative asshole.

Me and the other GM still game. I am the only one from that group to have contact with that GM.

We moved on, but that is the campaign that got away. It could have been great, except for one too lenient DM, and one raging ambulatory hemorrhoid.

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>>52187966
I wish I was on my PC to screencap your story. I am legitimately angry at that human waste

>>52188002
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SbxQFMfQiMUAu12_j5qOSJNZqExOkWy0L43TzzSU-6A/edit?usp=sharing

Anyway, I hope y'all enjoyed the story time. I gotta hit the sack. Its 7am here. I sent way too long typing this up.

>>52188012
>>52188028
Thank you guys, this is good. You have well!
>>52188059
Thank you anon for the story! I hope your future groups won't be shit

>>52169268
If you're a PC, the only right time is when you've discussed it with them out-game and they explicitly allow you to do it.

If you're a DM, the only right time is when you've given your players fair warning or a chance to escape, or when your players already threw common sense to the wind.
(In a game like D&D, this means if you've got reasonably permissive rules for fleeing combat, you don't have to worry about anything except how you design traps and dickbag assassin-type NPCs and such.)

>>52184106
I think it might be this: Shoujo Kishidan x Knight Tale

>>52169805
Check with your GM OOC first if he's okay with hat possibility and check what his reaction will be if you were to go through with it.

>>52169268
Never killed one, but I did turn one into the guards
>My religious dwarf and a paladin are travelling with a rogue
>Stop for the night when about seven zombies(it was a Halloween meet) attack our camp
>Rogue thinks there's hundreds, tries summoning a fucking demon to help
>Nat 20, demon kills the zombies and demands souls for repirations
> We manage to escape the demon barely, immediately cuff the rogue and throw him in the nearest cities dungeon
>Guy has to build a new character

Funnily enough me and another player in the only war campaign we are in, have a combined total of 12 player kills with me in the lead at 7. The last round of player killing I committed was with a massuve explosion with at the centre although I can't be held entirely reponsible as the gm has no idea how grenades work and just detonated all of my 26 when hit with an energy weapon, again it was a team effort as my player murdering friend tried to use another PC as shield and ended up knocking himself out and I exploded as the medic tried to save the other guy.

>>52169268
gross negligence, betraying the party. ive done it myself a couple times whe another player's fuckery nearly got us all killed

>>52185700
Man, how come my experiences with Only War always turn into such mary-sue shitfests...

>>52194168
Because everyone plays a specialist?

Get everyone to start out with a regular guardsmen, drawing lots for the opportunity to play an operator/heavy/medic, etc.

Stay away from the hard specialists like commisars and ratlings.

Once you've established a feel for the group, and your character dies, then bring in a special snowflake and see how long he lasts.

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>join game of DnD 5
>the campaign is DEMON INVASION, basically the plot of Oblivion
>wizards did it, and irresponsible use of magic and summon MORE depends like perils of the warp
>no one tells me party comp, so I make a human male fighter from a dishonoured noble background, lost everything to the demons, chip on his shoulder against mages. Lawful evil, but not like evil evil, just self interested evil.
>this fucking party.png
>it's all casters plus a literal demon. The other party members are an elderly sorcerer, an elfess wizard (no elves really in setting aside from obscure references, but was DMs GF), a DEMON PACT WARLOCK that was running incognito and everyone thought he was a rogue or something, and an anti paladin that was a BALOR bound to a suit of full plate.
>apparently the entire party just thought he was a Big Guy
>ok maybe I can work with this, I can have a character arc where I come around and get over my prejudices about wizards and stuff and it'll be a real growth moment and stuff
>party meets me in tavern, tell them they have to prove they are worthy of my time by greasing my pockets a bit (basically just asking my cut, plus a bit more because my character was a bit of a sleaze but wants to do what's right etc)
>we are indoors and the demonplate doesn't remove his helmet when he comes to my table to address me
>this is rude, I am a noble, and we are indoors and this guy is in full plate and won't reveal his face, what's his beef
>demands I join the party
>no one makes demands of me! Challenge him to a duel over honour, first blood.
>go outside the city, proceed to rock his shit with batman like toolkit
>while he's bleeding out we go to stabilize him, he's fucking CRACKLING WITH DEMONIC ENERGY
>no one notices / cares

This was the first strike. Little did I know it only got worse from here, and that the party had inadverdantly set in motion events that would unravel the world, and would later DELIBERATELY do heinous crimes that demand punishment.

>>52194831
Go on.

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>>52194831
>after I rock his ass I decide to join the party anyway because he put up a good fight and they agree to pay me two shares of the loot since I have squires that also contribute to the party. Also because I didn't want to hold shit up
>we do some dicking around in town, do a dungeon dive in a haunted cult basement or some shit.
>throw jars of bees and bear traps at cultists.
>mundane utility.wav
>fight bigass demon
>my batman gambits are of no use against its power, rely on casters to kill it while it beats on me
>while divvying up loot and stuff, my character is preoccupied with shovelling and much treasure in his pack possible, doesn't notice there's party conflict going on
>apparently the demon plate man thing killed a surviving cultists they planned on interrogating and sacrificed him or some shit
>party conflict
>me and NOT!warlock bro are like wtf not my problem, keep shovelling treasure
>demon knight goes down, instead of healing the elf wizard wall of forces or some shit, some sort of force field spell
>he bleeds out, upon death does BALOR EXPLOSION contained in the force field
>wtf, this cements in my mind that this party is weird, but I mean this is a lot of gold, so I'll roll with it, at least NOT!warlock bro isn't a dirty magic user (jokes on me)
>NOT!warlock goes around killing homeless people and adopting orphans and starting a child cult while I'm busy getting productive. Apparently there's a neighbouring country that has a great magical wall that's been keeping out the demons
>they are under siege
>decide to take charge when the party doesn't know what to do anymore, we are gonna rally an army and relieve that wall so they will let us in
>side note, apparently earlier in the campaign the party sabotaged the wall because a demon cultist promised them loot and the fucking murderhobos actually goddamn did it
>spend a few months rallying and training a peasant levy army, hire some mercenaries, let's do this
>we march north

>>52169268
It's happened a couple of times. One such time was somewhat pre-arranged because the PC INSISTED on delving into really dark dark magic and continued to fail various checks and saves.

By the second session he even confessed that he had fucked up and actually, IC, convinced the Party to kill before he went any further.

Was actually kinda cool.

>>52194960
MOAR!

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>>52194960
>at this point, the guy playing the demon knight has rerolled a plain Jane totem barbarian from some hill clan that has joined my army. He's pretty chill and becomes my NEW best friend IC.
>as master of this rabble army, I reluctantly allow one of the Wizards to go find some of his people so we can have some mage's
>the elf also goes to get some elves in elf land
>a few boring bureaucratic and organizational sessions pass but that's the price of doing a large scale operation like this so that's fine
>decide to post spies on every member of the party that isn't barbarian bro, just in case.
>I've gotten suspicious of NOT!warlock, since he's always out late at night and there's always dead homeless people found on his nights out, just thought he was bloodthirsty.
>we set out and have a few minor skirmishes but nothing big. We come to a small, devoutly religious (like crazy religious) town and post camp outside their borders after they allow us
>spies report a demon horde coming from the east, no more than a day away
>spies also report that the warlock is a WARLOCK, and that apparently while I was busy training an army, the wizard and sorcerer made DEMONIC PACTS
>initially they were apparently trying to infiltrate the cult, but instead went full ham and have demon enchanted gear, and the sorcerer has BOUND A DEMON TO HIMSELF and is now struggling against possession.
>ohfuck.png
>I confide with the barbarian my plans
>I need to be sure and know for myself
>prepare for battle in the morning, set peasant baggage train to work felling trees to make barricades so we can funnel the demons through the rocky Rohan-like canyons and grasslands.
>get the siege engineers to unpack our ballistae
>begin soaking ballistae bolts and arrows in holy water barrels overnight
>The plan is to hold the line and kill their big demons with the ballistae, then I will lead our heavy and light cavalry to smash their footmen in a pincer manoeuvre

>>52169268
I 'accidentally' unleashed the apocalypse once (I had meta knowledge it would but in character I was just satisfying my curiosity).


The party (all good aligned) pinned me down, dragged me to a lake, and drowned me.

The DM eventually forced that this be retconned as he argued he wasn't interested in running an evil campaign, and as he put it,

>You can't play a chaotic good freaking paladin and just murder people without losing your alignment


They all still think it was justified but obviously I remain salty years later.

Thoughts

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>>52195108
>the demon horde is mostly little shits with a few big red monkey things.
>the is fine.wav
>prep and fire the ballistae
>we have mages assigned to abjuration duty in every infantry block working directly under a sergeant. Barbarian bro commands infantry, I command cavalry, casters and dispersed amongst infantry
>the big monkeys go fucking invisible
>wat oh no fuck shit oh fuck not as planned not as planned
>the barricades are SMASHED by the invisible monkeys, some are made visible when they take damage but the second wave remains hidden and tramples through the soldiers
>they go straight for the ballistae
>the Wizards manage to kill the monkeys but our ballistae except one are utterly trashed
>shitshitshit
>holding back with my cavalry until the right moment
>my captain jumps the gun and half the pincer goes early
>fuckfuckfuck
>I am forced to lead the heavy cav on the right
>the pincer is botched
>we are stuck in
>I get dragged from my horse, me and other knights barely fending off demons
>SORCER HULKS OUT AND LETS DEMON HAVE FULL CONTROL
>infantry lead by Barbro and sorcerer demon relieve me and the rest of the surviving cavalry
>gratitude, but he's visibly possessed.
>have witnessed the warlock display his demon powers
>have seen the wizard conjuring demons to fight demons
>it's only a matter of time, I know what needs to be done
>we route the remaining demons, but suffer high, but not massive, casualties. 20-30%
>we return to town, where the party is allowed to dine with the locals at the tavern, but the army must wait outside
>I tell my barbarian and the DM that the plan is a go.
>it must be done.

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>>52195240
This is it, the final chapter, my moment of glory

>don't trust elves, don't trust mage's
>barbarian bro stays to supervise the war camp. Elves sit at their own table because they are snooty. My spies have vetted which mages in the army are loyal and those that are faltering
>sorcerer is barely passing will checks to fend off the demon within him, and is visibly corrupted
>feasting, drinking and celebration
>me and the warlock, wizard, and sorcerer go to town and are treated by the locals
>while eating, a handful of local Templars barge in, swords drawn and they call out ARREST THEM while looking at the party
>the casters are out of spells and frantically look at me to protect them
>I rise, flip the table and draw my sword heroically
>then I call out "BIND AND GAG THEM SO THEY CANT CAST SPELLS"
>the party's faces all drop
>mfw pic related
>they are arrested, bound, gagged, and stripped of everything but their clothes and locked in a dungeon, still bound and gagged.
>I burn their spell books in front of them
>the wizardess is almost crying IRL but I don't care
>I tell them how disappointed I am in them, that we were so close, and I had trusted them, etc
>I tell them how wizards got us into this mess and no thanks to them it's only getting worse every day, and that their misguided pursuit of power was wrong
>the ends never justify the means
>I can feel my alignment shifting as my character develops and sees the truth in his own words
>there's a lot I haven't typed up but he was gradually becoming an actually better person as sessions went on, less bitter etc.
>I tell them I'll see them in the morning

this will have a part 2, I lied.

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>>52195489
The real final chapter

>wizardess is fucking outraged
>THATS METAKNOWLLEDGGE
>YOU DONT KNOW WE ARE CONSORTING WITH DEMONS
>look to DM
>"He has had spies posted on you since before the army even marched, before you even thought about joining the cults and consorting with demons"
>vindicated
>I walk out without another word
>the local church wants to put them on trial. It'll obviously be kangaroo court but I warn them not to let them speak because they'll cast spells and escape
>MUH due process
>fine fine fuck it
>they are brought bound and gagged up onto a makeshift podium. There are three crucifixes and giant iron helmets that deny sensory input and muffle words, while also causing enough pain to prevent resting, just sitting around ready to go
>first the wizardess is called to defend herself
>Ungagged, I cringe IRL because I know what comes next
>immediately grabs the sorcerer by the arm and dimension doors away multiple times.
>I fuckin a toadaso
>warlockbro isn't given a trial, they just go fuck it and crucify him
>I visit him regularly over the days he rots in the sun, tell him how much I regret this and that our friendship was real, but this kind of evil cannot be unpunished
>other two party members go back and rejoin the cult
>DM at a loss
>me and barbarian bro elect to continue our march to the north
>warlock bro is like 10/10 cool with it IRL, "well played etc"
>SORCER is bitter but whatever
>WIZARDESS IS SO MAD ITS UNREAL HAHAHA
>DM throws in the towel

And that's the story of how I became DM.

We ran a sequel campaign with new characters (Except barbarian) at the same level, reorganized the notes, was more of a reboot if that makes sense. The two that abandoned the party ended up as big boss battles, and the party eventually got to fight my character who ended up reanimated by demons so they got some sort of vindication OOC and closure for the campaign.

>>52169268

Had a game where a PC didn't die, in fact something more mysterious happened. I was running and we had a Dick Ass thief who would do whatever he wanted and steal from everybody. Drove everybody mad and slowed the game to a grinding halt.

Another character was a CG Dragonborn Paladin, he was an absolute pleasure to run, an experienced player who did whatever was necessary for true good.

He was tired of Dick Ass thief and tired of meta-roleplay so he booby trapped his chest with an instant hole quilt. It fell on top of him and sealed him in the nether. Only later on did i discover that the was an air element (therefore suffocation) to the hole and that time passed within it, so the conversation when something like this.

"can i get out?"
"no"
"can i see?"
"no"
"can i breath?"
"i don't know"
"do i age?"
"i don't know"
"am i dead?"
"i don't know"
"well what the fuck do it do then?"

Pally replies "you get a time-out forever"

>>52173172
Or you could just play with people who understand that character death is sometimes part of the game. "PCs can only die with the player's permission" is ludicrous idea that only leads to bad GMing. Yes, PC death is something to be avoided. No, you shouldn't avoid it at the cost of the integrity of the game, and you CERTAINLY don't need to have explicit permission to kill a PC - the permission is implied whenever they take on dangerous tasks such as adventuring.

>>52195194
It was justified. Whether or not you wanted to IC, you became the Anti-Christ of that world, and any Paladin worth their salt would kill you.

The Paladin wasn't murdering some rando. He murdered the instigator of hell on Earth.

>>52169805
what confuses me about this is you start off as the paladin and end as a fighter or wizard.

>>52196331
>>52173172

There's a middle ground where you discuss this shit BEFORE the campaign starts. That way players and GMs are all on the same page, they know what they've signed up to.

>>52198207

Reading comp, kiddo. There are two Paladins in the party. The end features the poster's Paladin, a wizard and a fighter VS That Guy and the other Paladin.

>>52169268

I once tried to stop the party's Sorceress from becoming a vampire lord's bride. Turns out the rest of the party had already been corrupted, and they murdered the two of us who weren't JUST SO they could do the Brides of Dracula thing.

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>>52188028
Pretty sure this is the stats for that thunderbird. I'll post quintins character sheet once I redact any personally identifiable info in it. His is out of date, but gives you an idea.

I rule that the players have to agree on such things beforehand. If they haven't set things up beforehand, they literally can't fight. It's not allowed.

Some players will complain about GM interference, but it's something of a deal where players should not be imposing their will upon other players. Certain characters are simply set up to be good at dueling, while others are not. It's unfair to those in more supportive roles to find themselves helpless when they've built themselves to aid the team.

Plus, if it's to the point where things have gotten that far, and the players are not working together, there's a serious problem that needs to be addressed OOC, not IC.

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>>52199276
This is Quintins sheet. Its just prior to his liche transformation but it was about 1 year and 6-7 months into the game. (We had gone up 4 levels in that time frame)

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>>52199351
And how our group got around in the desert for stealth missions. I never had a chance to animate a sandworm so we drove under the sands in relative comfort in a hollowed out bulette I had fortified and turned into an APC.

This thread had some good stories, someone should cap them.

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>>52195709
Oh also during my set up in the tavern, the barbarian bro got the elves drunk and red weddinged them. Then we tried and failed to destroy all the demonic items so we just buried them under holy ground instead.

Also the local religious zealots were converts of a previous character. And learning of them destroying the wall that was meant to save humanity was one of the factors that lead to their punishment.

And I talked to them in character a lot to make sure they were above board and kept lying to me in character about fraternizing with demons so it's not like this was out of the blue, just in case I'm coming off as a hotshot tpk murder monster.

Over the course of the campaign I was becoming less self interested and more invested in the whole saving the world thing so I think I had a pretty strong character arc out of all of the players. I could have hypothetical started as a fighter / rogue but I could have ended as a fighter / paladin if framing it that way makes any sense

>>52201212
Honestly it all sounds above board. I can see how the players that got killed might get mad but if I was in the group I think I would still have fun with how it turned out.

>>52201212
solid story mate. Well done.