Nasuverse thread

Discarding all the dumb ass god lance and merlin stuff, who would win in a fight, knights of the round table vs paladins of charlemange?

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What system can you run both combat with both masters and servants satisfactorily in?
Besides GURPS

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>>52128380
Well, considering that one of the greatest of the Twelve Peers looks like this and is weak as shit on top of that, I'll go out on a limb and hand it to the Camelot folks.

>>52130553
I think someone tried working it out with Maid once. He said it turned out surprisingly well.

>>52130553
ANIMA: Beyond Fantasy. Masters are magic users (probably Summoners) and their servants are their summons. Maintaining a summon requires you feeding it Zeon, basically MP, and mages in ANIMA recover Zeon very slowly over a period of days, which seems to fit the Nasuverse pretty well. In return the maximum Zeon pool of a mage is pretty damn high when fully charged. It would also cover all the additional powers and crap mages have, which are just standard spells they're capable of casting.

Physical-oriented Masters might use the Ki Dominion rules instead with the mechanics for summoning and maintaining creatures with Ki. Ki Dominion also covers (explicitly) crazy stuff like the Eyes of Death Perception and other anime bullshit.

Be warned, the system is not well balanced and it's pretty difficult to get used to in the first place. It's 99% point-buy based with hard caps on what percentage of points you can invest in combat/ki, magic, and psychic ability, but skills and proficiencies don't have that restriction. This makes it entirely possible to make a character with zero combat or magical ability but a moderate proficiency in a dozen skills... which means they'll die instantly, or in at most two blows, when combat actually starts. Likewise it's entirely possible to make a magic knight character with badass fighting and spellcasting abilities but zero training in any mundane skills or knowledges whatsoever.

If you use it, I heavily recommend that you force players to use between 20% and 50% of their points in skills (called Secondary Abilities) and invest at least 20% in Block, Dodge, and/or Wear Armour. Otherwise characters can, and will, only be useful either during or outside of combat.

>>52130647
I fucking hate apocrypha so fucking much
Also if its astolfo with his book, literally all of the weapons that the round table uses is now useless

>>52130647
>>52130864
If anything, Astolfo is honestly the one who SHOULD be depicted like that. Since his legends involve him crossdressing.

>>52130988
It was just a one-time thing. A very brief episode in the very long story of his life.

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>>52128356
I just want Kerry to be happy.

>>52133093
He's doomed to maximum suffering in every timeline, buddy.

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>>52128356
this is your Caster tonight

>>52133152
He's more concerned with the bolt in his heart than fighting for me.

>http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Quantum_Time-Lock

Daily reminder that no one knows how the fuck Nasuverse works, including Nasu himself

>>52133152
>Skills: His staff: A, Summoning: B, Sorcery: A++, Webway Trek: A
>NPs: Rubric of Ahriman B, Ahriman's Exiles A+

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>>52128356

If Billy the Kid can be a servant, so can Alvin York!

>>52133469
I just want Simo Hayha already.

>>52133481

There ain't no party like a sniper party Even if Archer is a meh class

>>52133526
Meh they may be, but they get the bone of my sword strengthened, if you know what I mean.

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>>52132749
Could be justified as just being one stage of his life. Caster Gil is a lot less of a douche than Archer Gil, and 14-year old Iskandar looks like this.

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>>52133481
>I just want Simo Hayha already.
There is even art around already.

>>52130553
Mutants and Masterminds with Servants as heroes and Masters mechanically being sidekicks.

>>52130647
>>Well, considering that one of the greatest of the Twelve Peers looks like this and is weak as shit on top of that, I'll go out on a limb and hand it to the Camelot folks.

Well they even said that he was the weaker of the 12 ... So I'll still go with Charlemagne !
SUS AU BEEFSTEAK !!! QU'AUCUNE TÊTES ANGLAISES NE RESTENT ATTACHÉES !!

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>>52128356
Remove genderbent false kings!

For a brief, shining moment it looked like Super Sendai Multichromatic Sabers were gonna be a thing.

>>52128356

Has there ever been a reason why there is absolutely ZERO stuff from 1001 Nights in the Nasuverse?

I mean, it can't just be that Nasu forgot about that entire mythos can it? There has to be some reason behind it.

>>52134960

How many Artoria's ARE there in Grand Order right now anyway?

Saber - Saber Alter - Saber Lilly - Proto-Saber - Lancer - Lancer Alter - Assassin X... did I miss any?

>>52135203
You forgot Sith Lord Saber.

List gets even bigger if you include non-Artoria Saberfaces.

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>>52133646
Leave Simo out of Fate, nothing good will come of it.

Tsukihime > Fate

Nasu vampire lore is more interesting than Nasu hero lore

Arcueid could beat all your waifus at the same time

Shiki could kill all the 40k chaos gods

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>>52135262
What a pointlessly bizarre feud.

>>52135262

Which Shiki?

>>52135284
Yes

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>>52135246
Are those Alice and Suika?

>>52135203
Artorias:
Artoria, Artoria Alter, Artoria Lily, Artoria Lancer, Artoria Lancer Alter, Mysterious Heroine X, Mysterious Heroine X Alter, Artoria Swimsuit, Santa Alter
Other Saberfaces:
Nero, Nero Bride, Okita, Mordred, Mordred Swimsuit, Jeanne, Jeanne Alter, Jeanne Alter Santa Lily

Additionally:
Arthur Pendragon (Prototype) who is a different character with the same story

>>52135262

I agree

Debatable.

Depends on if Gil's yo waifs.

Doubt it.

We all have our own ways of grieving, anon. The fact that Tsukihime R ain't happening hurts me too.

>>52135351

Still waiting for 18+ Disturbing Heroine L

>Or we could just homebrew servants for a little while.
How would you stat Cyrano de Bergerac?
Master fencer that went to the moon,
On a sidenote, contrary to the play, IRL he fought a hundred swordmen at the same time after the siege of Arras, so he was already old and crippled with a swordcut to the throat and a bullet to the gut.

>>52133469
If a man can get all the equipment associated with him, I'd rather have John Moses Browning and his noble phantasms.

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>>52135278
It's only pointless because Fate won, and it won HARD.

FGO is making millions with gachashit while the Tsukihime Remake is probably going to flop, if it even comes out at all. In a recent (?) interview he said he was still working on it. He also said he wants a Tsukihime collab for FGO with SSR Arcueid. The fact he didn't give any hints or minor details about the remake and instead talked about a collab with FGO doesn't sound good for Tsukihime fans. Or maybe he really is working on it and diverting the appropriate amount of gachabux to the Remake production.

Nasu also seems to be driving a wedge between the franchises. He retconned the existence of Dead Apostle Ancestors and True Ancestors in Fate. Primate Murder is probably no longer related to Tsukihime and it's possible it was originally a Fate character to begin with since Manaka is possibly the original Altrouge. Aoko might also not be in the Remake at all, instead getting replaced with that new teacher character.

Lastly, KnK looks to be done and I don't know if there's been any info about Mahoyo sequels, if they're still happening.

It's looking a little grim for non-Fate Type Moon series at the moment.

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>>52135614
>Primate Murder is probably no longer related to Tsukihime
You're a little behind on the news, huh?

Primate Murder is still Primate Murder in worlds with Altrouge. But in the universe of Fate/Grand Order, he became something else, something smaller and more innocent.
He goes by the number Four.

>>52133119
Not every timeline. I could see it eventually working out in kaleid.

>>52135798
I'm aware of Four, but it's doubtful we'll ever see Altrouge and PM together in a Tsukihime work at this point.

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>>52135295
Florence Nightingale and Von Nuemann

>>52133093
he kinda deserved it

I'm trying to come up with a good take on Ludwig II of Bavaria, but I'm struggling. The only thing I know I want is a high rank in Eye for Art. Class, stats, NP are all difficult to settle on. I've been considering a few different approaches, but I don't know which one I'd like to go with and I don't think I want to mix them.

So far I've brainstormed ideas about him having mystic eyes, or drawing a bit from Wagner's body of work and piecing something together form those elements, or looking further back and tenuously relating him to fairy kings such as Oberon. Or I could focus on his mysterious death and make an NP from that by calling it a great disappearing act.

I will forever hate nasu for the shitty waifu faging
Ruined sabers for me forever
Also that gun rule is stupid as fuck

>>52137566
>that gun rule is stupid as fuck
There is no such rule. Nasu could never commit to anything so strict. The whole setting is made to be so elastic that anything can happen for any reason as long as you can think of some bullshit you think sounds good. At most the no-guns thing was only a general principle.

At this point there are several servants who use guns. Hell, there's even a whole class named Gunner.

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>>52136835
One way to go would be saying that his obsession with Wagner and particularly Lohengrin has allowed him some use of "Swan Knight" abilities, making him a Double Summon of Caster and Rider (emphasizing one or the other, depending on what you're more interested in).

The other case would be just to say fuck it and make Caster Wagner, with a Golden Rule (False) skill representing his ability to make people give him money with his Noble Phantasm the Bayreuth Festspielehaus as a not-a-Reality-Marble like Nero's Domus Aurea.

>>52128356
>Or we could just homebrew servants for a little while.
A couple of pretty complete profiles were posted on /vg/ the other day, mind if I repost them? I thought they looked interesting.

>>52137803
Do it. Not like there's a whole lot going on in this thread anyway.

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>>52137566
Hi.

>>52137818
Class: Berserker
True Name: Nikola Tesla

STR: C
END: D
AGI: D
LCK: E
MGI: B


Skills
Mad Enhancement -- C
Rank-up in all parameters save LCK and MGI, but most of one's sanity and reasoning is lost. But, in Tesla's case it is difficult to say whether he has truly lost anything at all, as perhaps this is closer to his natural state. He will frequently fall into manic episodes, during which he will typically claim to have visualized electric devices that would defy the common sense of ordinary men.

Animal Dialogue (False) -- B
Since it's not like the intellect of the animals improve, very complex nuances would typically not be conveyed. However, as a symptom of Tesla's warped mental state, his delusional mind will infer complex thoughts and communication from animals. Do note this only applies to birds.

Familiar (Pigeons) -- D
Tesla can direct pigeons with thought alone, without need for a contract.

Profligate -- B
A skill to convert monetary wealth into mana. Tesla's poor handle on money may be called something of a modern legend. As such, he will never be able to hold on to any wealth that is earned by or given to him.


Noble Phantasm
Expedition Wardenclyffe: The Scaffold Detritus of the Galvanic Xanadu
Owner: Nikola Tesla
Rank: C++
Type: Anti-Army
Range: 1~99
Maximum number of targets: 500 people
A sublimation-type Noble Phantasm of Nikola Tesla's failures. By capturing the attention and imagination of those around him with his grand visions, Tesla may entrap his observers in a spiral of wasteful self-ruination. As he gives voice to the visionary inventions of his dreams in infectious detail and makes promises of their completion, his audience will be strongly compelled to give more and more of themselves and their belongings to see his work bear fruit. The trustful and generous will be especially vulnerable to this Noble Phantasm. Even people beholden to powerful avarice will selfishly donate to Tesla's cause. Cynicism might provide some defense.

>>52137879
And the other one.


Class: Saber
True Name: Castor & Pollux

STR: B
END: B
AGI: A
MGI: C
LCK: C+


Skills:
Magic Resistance – B
Spells with a chant below three verses will be canceled. Even if targeted by High-Thaumaturgy and Greater Rituals, it is difficult for them to be affected.

Riding – A
All vehicles and all creatures but those of Phantasmal Beast and Divine Beast-rank can be used as mounts. This rank is high enough to have aptitude for the Rider Class. Should this Servant be summoned in the Rider class, the rank in this skill may increase.

Divinity – B
Though only Pollux was born a demigod, by giving half of his divinity to Castor the two of them have become spiritually linked. Their senses and thoughts are shared to some extent, giving them a positive modifier to saving throws. The modifier will be greater in the event that they fight underneath the visible Gemini constellation. As a result of their link, their senses of self and individuality have eroded to some degree.

>>52137894
Protection of the Gemini – A++
If one brother were to have his body destroyed, and the process of rebirth is not underway, then the body of the remaining twin will be empowered as the perished brother's half of their demigod soul latches onto the living brother's spiritual nucleus. The twin still standing receives positive modifiers to his parameters.


Noble Phantasm:
Genesis Geminorum: Joined at the Hip
Owner: Castor & Pollux
Type: Anti-Unit
Rank: B
Range: 0
Maximum number of targets: 2 people
Inseparable at birth, inseparable in life, and inseparable in death. Each of them carries a half of the egg from which they were born. Even their souls are joined at the hip, so to speak. Anchored by their brother's spiritual nucleus it would be impossible for either one of them to pass on by himself. Should one still stand while the other has fallen, there remains a possibility of reunion. By enclosing the persisting brother in the egg shell's two halves, given time, both brothers will hatch from it in good health come daybreak.

>>52137879
I would have pegged Tesla for a Caster.

>>52137919
Tesla is an Archer in F/GO. Probably qualifies for Caster I would imagine.

>>52137566
>Nasu
It's Takeuchi. Takeuchi is the cancer
>Takeuchi, the CEO, is the one who order the genderswap (nasu said: like usual) which makes the writers scratch their head how to make it possible.
>Takeuchi still making new Arthuria. Nobody ask him. It's just Takeuchi appear with the new Arthuria design for the game.

>>52137952
It really is him. People already joked about Takeuchi bullying Nasu into doing what he wants, and now as CEO he really can.

>>52137768
Yeah, I'd like to incorporate some swan motif, but at the same time I think it'd be cool to draw on the Ring Cycle and use that as a way of associating the character to the cultural legacy of Siegfried. I think it might be an alright angle for world building. But if I emphasize both Lohengrin and the Ring Cycle as elements of the character, then I think I may have to jump through some hoops to keep him out of a knight class.

>>52137919
He could probably be summoned as one. Edison could, and the two of them are similar enough that it'd be weird if Tesla couldn't be a Caster as well.

>There are still people around here that still think the Clock Tower is like going to Hogwarts

Poor fools.

>>52138093
if its like everything else nasu, then the requirements to entry are killing your parents and getting raped

>>52138093
I'd like to think that the organization is big and multi-faceted enough that some of its adherents probably do experience it as something not fully dissimilar to Hogwarts.

>>52138124
And it would still be a better place to study (and scheme, rape, murder and all other stuff that comes with being magic user in nasuland) than Hogwarts.

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>>52137952
>yfw we finally get Uther Pendragon and it's a Saber clone again
Th-thanks Takeuchi.

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This is your Ruler for tonight

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>>52138662
This is one of your lancers tonight

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Stat me

>>52137879
>>52137894
>>52137912
>when someone reposts your Fate autism
That's a first for me. I suppose I'm thankful that someone thought it was interesting.

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>>52130553
Most systems, with sufficient homebrew additions. A system capable of running this setting satisfactorily should have a few characteristics:

Supports PvP. A good Nasuverse campaign will, by necessity, revolve an alliance of masters, but at least some of them are likely to need to fight it out. Moreover, the antagonists need to be made in the same way as the PCs anyway, even if some of them (like Bluebeard) summon ordinary monsters.

A moderate level of specificity. Basically, you need a ruleset that tolerates plugging in new material. Time Wizards is a great example of a system that won't work - it's too narrowly tailored to what it's trying to do, so you can't add the new rules to support Servant special powers. Too generic, though, and you can't make any weird abilities because all you're allowed to do is change the fluff.

A high degree of interactivity. A huge part of good Nasuverse stories is powers interacting in weird ways to create overpowered combinations or to totally shut down what should be an unbeatable foe. You need to be able to capture that by letting abilities interact with one another.

A mechanism for creating a wide power disparity between characters. To put it in D&D 3.5 terms, you want your Masters in the neighborhood of level 5 and your Servants in the neighborhood of level 15. You need a game that supports PCs with that kind of gap.

Beyond that, it's just a matter of having a group that can handle the unusual dynamics of the campaign, including writing their own unique special abilities, and a DM that can manage things fairly and come up with an interesting plot.

>>52135187
pretty sure he just never bothered to google it

I'm in desperate need of a Scottish hero who isn't just some slut from an Irish myth.

Please stat Robert the Bruce.

>>52140147
>>52130553
the biggest issue i can see running fate isnt statting the characters,its managing the party- as it will either rolfstomp the grail war through numbers, or become a backstabbing shitfeston par with a last session of black crusade.

also having some members be asters and some servants wouldnt work, as masters are both vital - but also useless.

so it would have to be some kind of scenario like F/GO

>>52140490
jokes on you the scots are garbage

>>52140510
I've run semi-freeform fate games before, and let me tell you:

you can't trust people with PvP. You can't. The only way to get it to work is to have collaboration (like F/GO, or force people into one team like Apocrypha)

>>52140535
I know anon.
I know.

>>52140510
I think a quest-like form might be the ideal way for running it.

>>52140550
maybe an all magus party, some kind of church/ mages guild organisation - with servants being TPK encounters (CoC)

>>52140510
Or you can do a FGO and have campaign inside a singularity with party being Servants and enemies being assorted monsters, demons, gods and other Servants. Chaldea optional.

>>52140510
The party is made up entirely of test tube baby demiservants

in that case, mutants and masterminds might work best, with "Mana levels" being a weakness

>>52140603
Something like El-Melloi Case Files might work. Most of the PCs being magi, servants may appear but there's no Grail War going on so you don't have to deal with that whole song and dance.

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>>52136117
>Von Neumann
I... what?
What's next, Turing? Feynman?
"Oh, you must be joking, Mr. Feynman, they couldn't have turned you into a cute anime girl for no reasons, right?"

>>52140510
If you want to run a vanilla Holy Grail War, you're right - it takes careful work. You need to do a few things.

First, you need to have at most 4 party members, probably 3, and the remaining Servants need to be built with the party makeup in mind. There's a few reasons for this - one, the numbers issue you mention, and two, there are stock characters in these stories that the DM has to be running. You need, at minimum, somebody who expects everyone to play by the rules and who gets roflstomped as a result (Kayneth, for the best example), a complete monster to provide the initial impetus for cooperation (Ryunosuke, again a good example), and the real primary antagonist who forces them to keep working together (say, Kirei). And you probably want a spare NPC in case the real antagonist designation needs to get changed later on (F/SN is a route-base game, after all). I'm a bit heavy on F/Z examples, but that one just has the best archetypical characters, even though it lacks the cooperative structure; these are just the roles they serve here.

Second, you need to approach Master-building from a relatively unusual perspective. It's critical that you nail down their personalities and motivations before you even start stats, and you need to do it cooperatively so that you can ensure the party will be willing to work together, but not so cohesive that there will never be any tension. A character-building session is almost mandatory, whereas in most other styles of game you can just have people show up with their characters and hope for the best.

Finally, the GM really has to exert some effort to make the legitimately-threatening NPC characters do their work. You need a GM who's willing to pull shit like Caster in F/SN - characters that wouldn't work well as PCs but are good antagonists because they do things like huddle up in a lair and require the PCs to come to them, and whose abilities negate some of the critical strengths the heroes have (Rule Breaker).

>>52140716
>demiservants
what servants would you have them fused with?

>>52140786
It's also important to be flexible as the game proceeds. The heroes should develop a philosophical theme to the campaign, and the antagonist you wind up with should be the antithesis of the position the heroes take.

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>>52138662

>>52140892
why is the emperor a fat Japanese man?

>implying Gilgamesh wouldn't end up being a primark

>>52140860
it's mutants and masterminds, they get to pick their own Servant

Then they make skills, and get powers that would be associated with those skills

As for me, personally, I'd want to be fused with someone like fuckin Constantine

Half Paladin, Half Unapologetic thief

>>52140912
At least he's not a fat, faceless old man who gets pleased by twintailed tsunderes for money.

>>52140892
How would most servants fare against the Emperors psychic might? Would it count as magic?

>>52140912
>golden armor
>incredible ego
>terrible at connecting with people
>terrible at actually ruling others

They're the same person.

>>52140938
The Emperor's Psychic Might is beyond anyone's comprehension. He can maintain a Psychic beacon that can be seen for over 100,000 Light Years. There's not a character in the Nasuverse that can do anything on that level.

>>52140957
Moses, actually

Moses splitting the Red Sea actually made an energy signature so massive it dwarfed fully unlocked Proto!Excalibur by like, a hundred fold

>>52140782
Reincarnation shit. Random people use magical knives to slit their throats and thus channel their past selves. Eventually they start to fully identify as their past selves. So a little girl became John von Neumann. And she has LCD-displays growing out of her head.

The series is absolute garbage.

>>52140892
>Apocrypha style grail war
>loyalist vs traitor primarchs
>Emps as ruler
>primarchs have too deal with having masters while dealing with daddy Emps and fighting for the chance of having their deepest wish come true

I kinda want this.

>>52140957
>There's not a character in the Nasuverse that can do anything on that level.

I don't think we have enough information to make that statement. We have no idea how hard that is in terms of Nasuverse magic.

>>52141003
Splitting the Red Sea=\=Splitting the fabric of space and time for 100,000 Light Years.

None of the Nasuverse characters have any powers that go beyond Earth itself. None certainly have galactic level abilities like the Emperor would have.

>>52141003
>it dwarfed fully unlocked Proto!Excalibur by like, a hundred fold
Excalibur in Prototype has never been used at full power.

>>52140938
gilgamesh is actually ciompetent when he wants to be

see caster gil

>>52140938
>>terrible at connecting with people
>>terrible at actually ruling others

First is just blatantly not true. Gilgamesh is exceptionally good at reading people, as shown by him talking Kirei into evil.

Second is later on shown to be untrue in Babylon singularity, where his somewhat older version is shown to be amazing ruler.

>>52140957
>Goetia incinerating nigh-infinite amount of timelines
>Tiamat having infinite volume

Sure thing m8

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Could Alice's Nameless Forest beat Alexander's army?

>>52141038
It doesn't matter what the act accomplished, but what the result was

>>52141043
I wonder which Excalibur Ramasses II saw then? Maybe it was regular Excalibur in Grand Order? I know the quote's from Ramasses himself

>>52141038
Has the story ever had reason to address that, though? There's no particular reason to assume that the scale, in terms of distance, of a given power has anything to do with its power or other measure of effectiveness within the scope of that scale.

>>52141038
Pretty sure Altera / Atilla the Hun could probably slay the Emperor.

Pretty sure she's on Horus levels of power at the very least.

>>52141079
Apparently there's some really fucked up shit beyond the Solar System. Cthulu-Grade and worse entities stalking the cosmos.

>>52141070
Yes. Alexander and his Army get lost very easily.

>>52141071
>I wonder which Excalibur Ramasses II saw then?
Arthur's Excalibur. Which was not used at full power at the time. It had at most six seals off. It needs to have at least seven seals undone to be used at full power.

>>52141070
Supposing that the two RMs would superimpose on each other and coexist in the same location, her entire play hinges on the bet that none of the tens of thousands of soldiers would ask anyone else what his name was, and that none of those tens of thousands of people would know who he was.

>>52141059
>his somewhat older version is shown to be amazing ruler
Don't overstate it. Most of the good ideas spoken of in his scenes came from other people. And even then he was shown to be overconfident in his own abilities, he wasted a good deal of time he didn't have, and in the end most of the heavy lifting required to solve the crisis was done by other people.

>>52141038
This isn't even touch on the sheer and unprecedented mental fucker Emps could pull.

Contests of raw power aside he could string along most servants and all masters like a professional puppet master.

>>52141053
>see caster gil
His entire reason for becoming a Caster is the opposite of pragmatism. He consciously nerfs himself just to prove that he's still the best. That's vanity, he's showing off, it's the exact opposite of pragmatism and competency.

>>52141215
>>52141244
He is not absolutely perfect, but he is still better ruler than just about anyone even while being full of himself.

You know, standard Gil?

>>52141271
>You know, standard Gil?
Being even in the top 50% of rulers would be very much non-standard for Gil.

>>52141229
>Contests of raw power aside he could string along most servants and all masters like a professional puppet master.

I'm unconvinced. Emps has a reputation for being a master manipulator, but if you look at the things he actually does instead of what we're told about him, he doesn't understand how people work and is generally bad at getting them to do what he wants except by ordering them. As for mental powers, we have no idea how Nasuverse magic resistance maps to resistance to psychic powers, if at all - if the DM doesn't use magic-psionics transparency, then you're obviously correct, but otherwise it's pretty unclear.

>making a RP homebrew with a universe that keeps contradicting its own rules and plays the "TWEEST" card over and over in order to justify its overly stupid plot conveniences
Whew lads.

>>52141372
Not that fucking autist, but majority of Servants and Masters should fold to Emps comfortably, since he is like three tiers above them. It's like putting Magnus versus some random IG regiment.

That being said, he is still not as dangerous as Goetia, although that dude required Deus Ex Machina to be defeated.

>>52141372
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he stomps everything. Anyone who is a demigod, a top-tier servant of a knight class or a berserker (or anyone with madness enhancement) would wreck him.

Anyone without these advantages or any master would have little defense though.

>>52141411
I mean, yes, it's just that you can reach that conclusion by looking at the abilities he's actually shown to possess instead of by picking shit that has no relevance and trying to use that as a proxy for a general power baseline. That's exactly how the Nasuverse doesn't work - it's not like Dragonball Z where you can express somebody's power as a single number. It's all about the interactions between specific abilities that people possess, which is why you can have shit like Shirou beating Gilgamesh even though almost any other Servant would curbstomp Shirou and Gilgamesh would curbstomp almost any other Servant.

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>>52141411
>Not that fucking autist

Man what, way to hurt a dude.

>>52141458
Shirou can beat Gilgamesh because plot demands him to. Otherwise Gilgamesh puts his armor on with a thought instead of pulling Ea out and Shirou loses as he has no way of harming Gil.

Power very much matters in Nasuverse, with Excalibur being one of strongest NPs simply because it hits harder than most things. There are numerous "fuck you i win" binary abilities, sure, but greater number of those have various restrictions that make their use not feasible against quick and overwhelming fire power. Most of them require special circumstances that will only ever happen because plot demands it.

I mean, weakest Servant that can probably pose an actual danger to GEoM without having to resort to backstabbing would probably be Cu Alter with his 50km activation range GB that goes off like a nuke inside opponents heart. And that guy is pretty up there on Servant power=level chart.

>>52141547
any Cu could kill emp with Gay Bulge, itd just be a matter of getting close enough to use it - hell cursed arm hassan could kill emps with his zabanaya

Why does every Nasuverse/Fate thread turn into powerlevels? I swear to got chu2 fags ruin goddamn everything.

>>52141598
someone brought up 40k

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>>52141598
Because even in the Nasuverse, Chaos > Emperor.

>>52141547
>Shirou can beat Gilgamesh because plot demands him to.

Yes, exactly. Because Gilgamesh is an arrogant fuck, he doesn't bring all his abilities to bear on his opponent. That's a weakness Gilgamesh has, and it's as important as Cu's Luck.

To get away from power-level spreging, what was your entry to the series?

I remember hearing about this Fate thing a lot, so i decided to check it out. Looking over to One Manga(rip),i started reading Fate manga and, quickly finished it. Since there was not that much material, i figured that it was adaptation of something else, so i went to google, discovered VN and read it.

I pretty much managed to dodge all the spoilers, since i knew exactly nothing about it. Then i got to read other works as they got translated.

What about you anons?

>>52141675
Wasn't it revealed that Gae Bolg didn't kill Saber because of the Command Seal, and not because of that (mildly stupid) "If you got more luck, you may be able to evade this"?

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>>52141689
the best fate series: carnival phantasm

>>52141713
I don't actually know, all I know is that Lancer has shit luck and that it's an actual stat.

>>52141689
I mentioned in an /a/ thread a few years back it was on my backlog to watch and then a handful of people shat down my throat telling me to read the VN and not watch the anime, so I watched the dubbed anime the next day to spite them in some sort of short-sighted smug way.

>>52141689
Watched the anime a while back, dropped it after 5 episodes, read the VN, watched Kara no Kyokai, read Tsukihime, watched F/Z, read Mahou Tsukai no Yoru, played Melty Blood, then watched the new F/SN as it was airing. Currently waiting on the Heaven's Feel movie.

>>52141675
>he doesn't bring all his abilities to bear on his opponent
Choosing Ea over just putting his armor on is not "arrogant" anon. It's pure PIS.
>>52141713
It's both. Do remember that Luck stat is not luck in general term, but rather ability to defy destiny, which includes "This spear WILL pierce your heart". Lancer's own Luck doesn't figure in, though, as he doesn't need to defy destiny in that instance.

>>52141689
I watched Fate/Zero on a whim and loved the setting. Ever since I've been convinced that it's a great setting with good characters and bad stories to tell.

>>52141689
Watched Stay Night by 4chan recomendation, dropped it at episode 10 cuz I was bored. Later on watched Zer and UB by irl recommendation. Enjoyed them and watched Stay Night for completion sake.

>>52141777
EA is his panic button i imagine

>>52141780
Let me amend that. The Nasuverse is a great setting, with good characters, with bad stories, and with a fucking miserable fanbase.

>>52141808
>bad stories
F/SN (the VN) and Tsukihime are fucking great I have no idea what you are talking about. Will agree on the fanbase though. Between newfags/normies and insufferable power levelfags its terrible.

>>52141808
In a similar vein, I've always considered the Nasuverse to be the Japanese equivalent of the Tolkeinverse: a bunch of whatever stories that are rated too highly set in a really cool universe whose true value is only revealed when you dig around and find out the shit that set the stories in motion in the first place.

>>52141774
Have you read Case Files anon? It's pretty cool as they show magi side of the setting in more detail?

http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/5943-Lord-El-Melloi-II-Case-Files

>>52141797
Out of curiosity, which anime you preferred more? Despite finding SN to be vastly superior to Zero, i thought that UBW anime was pretty boring, but surprising amount of people found it better than Zero.

>>52141854
>F/SN (the VN) and Tsukihime are fucking great
While I agree, i must say that later parts of FGO, namely Camelot, Babylon and Time Temple are on whole another level. I can only hope that this level of quality continues in the second part of that work.

>>52141854
That's a fair point - I haven't had time to really dig into the VNs, which in turn means I'm at the mercy of the studios' choices about what stories to make into anime; and that is going to factor in what they expect the fans to want, and we agree that their influence will not be good.

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Archer or Berserker? NP? Abilities?

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>>52141890
Zero had higher high but also lower lows, to me at least.

I'd say I enjoyed UB more because it had almost no low points for me even if I didn't get as hype as I did during parts of Zero.

>>52141890
No I have not read Case Files. Ws on my to read list though.
>>52141903
>secondaryfags
Fucking kill yourself.

>>52141689
Fate/extra

>>52141777
imagine this situation

>you have your combat monster HQ choice, all of the relics, all of the buffs, the shizz
>they have their shitty sergeant
>sergeant shoots , hits, wounds, you fail and get wounded
>oh well, still no bother - you HQ is literally invincible
>you advance on him
>this happens again
>whatthefuck.jpg
>still advance, you still have 2 wounds left - you can reach melee next turn
>again
>jimmies are rustled
>do you charge their sergeant or dodge LoS?
>charge - there is no way that sergeant is beating your HQ
>dies to overwatch

from his perspective its a seemingly impossible situation that can only be attributed to extreme improbable luck, and his ego prevents him from taking the prudent but potentially perceived as cowardly option

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>>52142006
>all those gay bolgs
Are they gae or something?

>>52141991
BERSERKER PACKAN MAN AND A HALF
Did you really have to ask?

>>52142083
Extra has a really nice story - i loved how it really went into what it meant to be a loser in the grail war, although it's gameplay left a lot to be desired. Alice's death was heartbreaking.

How did you even start playing it though? Picked it up from vidya threads or something? It doesn't seem like something you just pick up on it's own.
>>52142131
It's actually Avenger, i'd say.

>>52141689
The only correct way, that being the VN.

>>52142101
But anon, there's only 2 Gay Bulges in that pic at best! (Or is that enough for "all those"?)

>>52142006
why does dairmund look like hes about to sepooku?

did kerry go operating again?

>>52141991
Can be an archer, best in berserker.

Archer NP- Bullet Hell: instant gun changes with massive ammo store, ammo is acquired from death and destruction.

Berserker NP-Doom Slayer: boosts physical stats to A, can not use any weapons. Can kill anything if he get his hand on them long enough, there is no defense capable of negating this.

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>>52142194

>>52142194
He is gonna sepoku the world. On his Bolg.

>>52142145
I ended up getting a PSP that was already hacked and had a bunch of games on it. No save files though, just games. That was one that was on it, played it on a whim, kept going.
Going through the entire game blind with Caster requires a lot of notetaking just to not die.

>>52142194
He realized that he and all of his alternative classes are doomed to stay in FP gacha.

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How did they fuck it up so badly
Worst design in fate by far

>>52142244
Doesn't he qualify for Saber? He might have the dubious honor of being the first one with a rating below 2S.
>>52142279
Caesar is great.

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>>52142279
>shitting on best saber

>>52142226
>he isnt even that good looking compared to other servants

>>52142334
To be honest his competition isn't all that great.

>>52142449
>hating on best boy

>>52142449
He's probably the best of the three silver Sabers, honestly.

i want to hug saber

>>52142472
not the other guy i like caesar just saying that there isn't a lot of challange for best saber.

>>52142524
>hating on best boy (prototype saber)
there, i elaborated

>>52142494
are you medea or gil?

>>52142553
Ah i give you that one he's a good conteder.

>>52142613
honestly original saber isnt too bad imo, shes a straight take on a paladin, and those are fairly rare

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>>52142524
>there isn't a lot of challange for best saber

I dislike that the Nasuverse has had so many light-hearted to semi-serious spinoffs that now 90% of the series has nothing to do with the hard horror roots of Tsukihime and FSN.

I also dislike that the games are no longer pornographic.
Not that the pornography was particularly fapworthy, but removing it from Realta Nua and the Tsukihime remake change the tone of it so much.

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>>52142494
She wants to fuck Saber.

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>>52142678
but the light hearted stuff works because the setting is so utterly nonsensical due to its writing

also, carnival phantasm is best

>>52142711
Saber Alter doming Gil was hot as fuck.

>>52142678
Carnival Phantasm was a masterpiece.

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>>52142708
everyone* wants to fuck saber

too bad saber is the kinds treasure

>>52142727
this?

>>52130738

The sad part is if you spend all of the points you would in secondary abilities to learn magic, you'll have higher secondary abilities by sustaining spells that mimic them.

There's really no reason to buy skills in anima, ever. They're a trap option.

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>>52142741

>>52135568

Nevermind Bergerac, what kind of stats would the Baron Munchausen have?

>>52142006
>>52142101

I'm still waiting on Lugh to get made a servant, although whether he'd have the Gae-Assail or the Eye of Balor as his NP is kind of up in the air.

Medusa for instance keeps appearing with NP used or associated with her death, like her ability to summon Pegasus or her running about with Perseus's Lance when she got summoned as a Lancer in the GO anime.

>>52142741
kings* treasure

>tfw you make all your friends hate you by pointing out Vampire: The Requiem elements they lifted from Tsukihime.

>>52142789
No set parameters for any stats except LCK, MGI, and NP. His stat sheet is malleable and reliant on how preposterous a story he can convince his audience to believe in. By fabricating a past, complete with grand feats of martial prowess, the Baron will weave a story with his words. The impression of his observers is then projected back unto him, actualizing a set of stat parameters proportionate to both his portrayal in the story that has been presented, and the strength of the belief that has been projected.

Effectively meaning that he's as strong as he can bullshit you to think he is.

>>52143004
So I'm not the only one who noticed!

>>52143004
Yo

Which ones? Tell me, I gotta know

>>52143009
Someone made a JoJo Stand that has that power.

>>52143009

And he wont stop bullshitting, and since this is an anime where talking is a free action, he's basically as unstoppable as he can imagine.

>>52143076
Force of Nature is what I remember off the top of my head, I distinctly recall pointing out numerous more though.

>>52143092
only if someone buys into it - so if he tried this with say Gilgamesh, and he didnt buy it- then hes very dead

but gilgamesh is probably arrogant enough to buy into it, and still think he better

>>52135246
>nothing good will come of it.
Yeah, for the enemy.

>>52141070
In what ways are Sanzou and Nursery Rhyme able to outclass Medea?

In b4 NR's obvious Jabberwock summon. Do you think Jabberwock can tear through Iskandar's army, the limit only being the time limit of mana supply?

>Caster Alexander by merging Alex with the wraiths of all the Greek philosophers

Can it be done?

>Rider/Caster Von Braun

What would be the craziest, Extraverse-style interpretation that /tg/ can do?

>>52143084
I wouldn't know anything about that. Don't read Jojo and don't really know how Stands work. Really like the visuals and general style, but I've never gotten around to familiarizing myself with the series much.

>>52143118
Gil would believe anything he couldn't top.

>>52143173
>What would be the craziest, Extraverse-style interpretation that /tg/ can do?
First thing that comes to mind: It's actually Martin von Braun.

>>52143175
It was in the weekend JoJo thread about a year ago, anon spent a lot of time on it and coming up with fun scenarios it could play with its power in.

>>52143181
but he could be convinced anything up to to that (if partially out of desire to have fun)

>The Baron starts talking himself up
>Gil buys all of it
>barons powers start soaring, he bullshits more and more
>allthispowerisgreat
>crosses boundary
>Gil stops believing him
>powerless

>>52140938
>Would it count as magic?

Psychic powers in 40k function by drawing power directly out of hell, giving it form, and then superimposing it onto reality. It's fairly magical.

>>52141547
> Cu Alter with his 50km activation range GB that goes off like a nuke inside opponents heart

How did Rama survive that and stay alive for a few days to cross the continent to Alcatraz?

>>52143173
>Caster Alexander
>Not Dhul Qarnayan

What are you, some kind of illiterate faggot? Come back when you've Made Macedonia Great Again

>>52143209
So what the good Baron has to do is set things in motion so that by the time Gil disbelieves he can`t stop the freight train of hurt heading his way.

>>52143233
Indians are OP

>>52143233
Nightingale did it.

>>52142741
And yet the only two to actually fuck Saber were a pair of Japanese teens.

>>52143261
>gilgamesh chanting "i dont believe, i dont believe " as a massive cannon begins aiming at him

>>52143302
i mean the entire world fucked saber pretty hard

>>52143354
Yeah, but not in the fun, sticky way.

>>52143009
I'd like to tweak that a bit. The stats are set, just as for any other servant, and they are set low. But he can alter the appearance of his sheet by telling lies. Stats looking like something they aren't, skills appearing even though he doesn't have them, and possibly even NPs appearing even though they aren't his. It's an illusion, and first he needs to fool you or else it wouldn't work. Meaning his first order of business would be to fool his master.

And the NP itself, that would be a giant cannon. Simple enough. But the cannon is powered by his audience's belief in his fraud. There's a trick to it, but it's not an illusion. The more people buy into the sham, the harder it hits. The more you buy into the sham, the harder it will hit you.

And of course, an obscenely high luck stat is obligatory.

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This is the originator of the term "assassin."

>>52143477
I fucking love that he's stealthy enough to be functionally invisible when he wants to be.

>>52142883
Is there a way to bullshit Lugh into becoming a servant? I mean, there's always some twist that makes it possible. Artemis hijacks Orion, Ishtar is possessing a human, Quetzalcoatl has a human host and several legends of incarnating as a human, etc. Can you think of something similar for Lugh?

>>52143489
There's quite a bit to love about the guy.

>>52143501
I can think of something like that for Baldr.

>>52143548
Spill it.

>>52143535
> "Say Hassan. what does your Noble Phantasm do?"
> "Well you see child, it decapitates people."
> "Oh."
> "It also severs their thread of fate."
> "Oh?"
> "It also erases their reason for ever having existed."
> "What?"
> "Oh, and it writes the concept of death on their very existence to ensure that even the immortals may die."
> "What the actual fuck?"
> "It essentially kills people so hard that they die to death."

>>52143627
So... he's Shiki?

>>52143583
One of Baldr's legends involve him being a regular dude and not a godling

>>52143653
People have noticed that everything about him, from what he does to the color of his eyes, resembles those eyes. We're not sure what exactly it means.

>>52133306
why is there a saber in a bikini with a water pistol in the archer row

>>52143684
It means he has MEoDP.

since servants aren't necessarily bound by time could an ultimate one be used as a servant under the appropriate circumstances?

>>52143704
I meant shit like "What does him and his supposed connection to the Islamic angel of death say about the Eye's origins?" and other crap like that. It's obvious he has the eyes, but I want to know what that will lead to.

>>52143705
Servants are bound to the Earth. Aristotles are bound to other planets.

So that's a No.

It could theoretically be used in the Moon Cell however, if one like ORT (Type-Mercury) became infamous enough

>>52143535
His weird but also really toned down love for decapitating things is fun.

>>52143704
If he does then they're even more evolved than Ryougi's, because he's able to force a concept of death on something that shouldn't have one as long as any life exists on Earth. And is immune to instant-death effects as a matter of course.

>>52143583
Okay, here goes. The Norse gods were all alive, but they were destined to die in Ragnarok and humankind would inherit the new world. Baldr, having died before his fellow gods, would be reborn in the new world. That's all old Sturleson stuff.

The Nasuverse has something similar. You have the Age of Gods and the Age of Men. You could say that Baldr's death in the Age of Gods was followed by a rebirth in the Age of Men. But as he was reborn in an era of humans, stripped of divine mystery and no longer ruled by gods, he himself would have his divinity stripped from him and be reborn as a human.

Gesta Danorum can be related to this. In it, Baldr was a human champion and not a god. That story could be adapted to serve as a model for his second lifespan. And I think that would give a lot of flavor to a characterization of him as a servant, since his role in GD puts a strong focus on his relationship to Nanna.

I remember I wrote up one or two NPs for him a year back or so. I put the project on indefinite hold, though. I couldn't decide whether I wanted to run with the idea of him as a draugr or just a human.

>>52143906
Of course they're more evolved than Ryougi's. He's THE assassin.

>>52143242
>Caster Alexander

The point is to try experimenting with this Composite Servant thingy that was introduced recently, ie,

Caster Moriarty + wraith of Der Freischutz = Archer Moriarty

>>52143583
>>52143668

>One of Baldr's legends involve him being a regular dude and not a godling

You can summon gods/demigods, but they take a hit to their parameters and/or they require a person as their vessel.

>>52143917
>I wrote up one or two NPs for him
Got any profiles saved? I'm bored and wouldn't mind having a look at them.

>>52143703
Scathach's rune shenanigans causing class changes and other stuff.

>>52143953
It's just fun to find workarounds that exploit the system conventions and draw on character background.

I kind of want a nameless Servant who was first person to use the flame granted by Prometheus. Basically the intermediary who existed as the split second point in time in between humanity being without flame and then having it.

>>52143501

Lugh's not a deity last time I heard. At least, no more than Enkidu or Hercules.

>>52144061
IIRC you'd end up with trying to Servant-ify a wraith, so the parameters would be weak for the most part, but has a functional NP.

Probably have to mash it up with other wraiths and ideas to make a servant. Composite Servant.

>>52144061
This sounds fucking cool.

>>52143705
>>52143805
There would be no possible means to summon one, not enough magical energy on the whole earth.
The moon cell automaton itself is an ultimate one and not a particularly amazing one at that, considering it can't kill Sefar and Arcueid can push right through it.

>>52144078
He is in Fate. He's called the god of light and Cuchulainn, his son, is a demigod of Divinity B. To be the son of a demigod would be much weaker divinity.

>>52144061
He'd probably be Avenger tier.

>>52144184
Isn't avenger reserved for evil bitter shells of their former selves? I'm not talking about Prometheus who's gone through eons of torture, but the human who was the first to take the gift of flame and spread it.

Makes me wonder how the other pantheons (Norse/Egyptian) survived Sefar/Altera back then. Maybe they either sat it out, or they were saved just in time by Excalibur?

>>52144209
He meant Angra Mainyu. Meaning he'd be a shitter among shitters.

>>52144231
...unless you're looking for a Hessian Lobo-style powerlevel jump

>>52144213
Sefar didn't kill all the gods, she just beat them into a retreat.
Early mistranslations interpreted "defeat" as "kill".

>>52144264
That's not what I quite got from the Extella dialogue. If it were that, then it contradicts 1.why gods can't go giant-size anymore, and 2. that Sefar is a spirit/matter-eating alien that was generally unhurtable by gods

>>52143924
You fucking idiot Caster Alexander IS Dhul Qarnyarn

>>52143955
It would take some time dig up, and I don't even know if it's still in my laptop. I'll just give you what I remember.

To start with I mashed together two things: Draupnir and Gyllir. Draupnir was a golden ring that was owned by the god Baldr. It had the property of multiplying itself, dripping eight new rings every ninth night. Gyllir was one of the horses on which the gods would ride across the Bifrost bridge. It is not specifically said to have been the horse of Baldr, but I figured it was close enough and it worked nicely for my purposes.

The name of Gyllir is a funny detail, in part because the etymology is uncertain. The name could be a variant form of the Norse word for gold, but it could also be a variant form of the word for shrieking or yelling. It is also given as the name of a giant. And in the modern Scandinavian language family it could mean either "weak" or "strong."

Basically, I made a divine gold horse that would multiply its mass by a factor of eight in the span of nine nights. That's mass, not size. The name Draupnir ("the Dripper") suggests a liquid state. As its mass increases, size and number become arbitrary. It could be a drove of horses or a solitary colossus.

I think it would work since Baldr was said to have been sent on his ship to Hel with both his ring and his horse. So he left for the afterlife in his ship, taking his belongings with him, and he later arrived in the human world with the same ship and load.

>>52144306
I don't see the contradiction. They were injured and forced to retreat, and were basically waiting for death to close in because they couldn't defeat her.

>>52144061
I think he'd be older than Gil. This combined with the fact that he would be one off the most important people in history should make him fairly strong.

>>52144382
Sounds like you put some thought into this. Just one little thing that bothers me.
>he left for the afterlife in his ship, taking his belongings with him, and he later arrived in the human world with the same ship
Why didn't you just make his ship the NP instead?

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>>52141020
>The series is absolute garbage
It's also entertaining garbage, which is why I posted it.

So could Jason have an NP that is the Argo, a ship holding other heroic spirits?

>>52141396
So you're saying FATE is unironically the best system to run Fate/ ?

>>52144158
>>52143805
Haha, holy shit I'm behind in the times. Is the moon being the grail a fact for all timelines, or just the one the moon cell was shown in?

>>52144679
Just Extra, Extra CCC, and Extella. It may exist in Grand Order but it definitely does not exist in Stay Night or Tsukihime or anything.

>>52144176

Ah, right. Fate rules.

Even after all this time, I still think it's a little perverse that it's Sasaki Kojiro who is classed as being a fictional character.

In a grail war consisting of (amongst others) Cu-Chulainn, King Arthur, Hercules, Medusa and Medea.
But no, it's Sasaki Kojiro who is fictional.

>>52144566
I thought about making Hringhorni the NP. Had an idea of it as a burning stone ship that linked the divine, dead, and mortal worlds. It's the ship he burned on, it's the ship his wife burned on, and it's the ship that would bring him back to the living. I figured it would help flesh out the character. It's the final honor his family gave him, but it's also where his wife Nanna burned herself to death. And Nanna wasn't his wife in Gesta Danorum, which I thought of using as the basis for his human life. There's a lot of history that can be ingrained in the ship, and he could have a lot of feelings around that. He's got reason to be proud of it, and he's got reason to be saddened by it. I think it would help with fleshing out his character.

Then I ran into some problems of what I wanted to do with the character. As I said before, I had an idea about making him a draugr, and the ship was the basis for that. It would also serve as the basis for why Nanna left him when they were reborn. But I kinda liked the Gyllir idea as well, and I didn't want to do both. I tried to figure out a workaround, but it was a hassle.

>>52144637

Jason is explicitly stated to be exactly like this. As a hero he is D class at best. But the Argo is basically like Alexanders NP, except it contains less heroes but of a higher quality.

Not LEAST being Hercules. Caster and Pollux, Atalanta, Lynceus, Hylas, Hippolyta was imprisoned on it as well. Medea technically would be on the thing as well.

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>>52144797
Strictly speaking, Jason gets Medea Lily, her younger, kinder self.

>>52144797
Doesn't it make you wonder how the NP would work if you have Medea Lily + Atalanta + Hippolyta already summoned and in the same team?

Is Hippolyta also supposed to be a Saberface, but brown?

What is this Composite Servant shit? Is this more F/GO stupidity or is this something fandom-based or what?

>>52144927

FGO.


I assume it was hinted and explored in some way with True Assassin and Kojiro in Stay Night, and kinda of explored again with Disease/the two Jacks and Nursery Rhyme in later works, but kinda formalized in FGO a few weeks ago.

>>52144975

Explain this to me.

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>>52144927
It'd be "more F/GO stupidity", from those options. F/GO is moving into its second story arc since the whole Solomon tale is told. Some new servants are mergers of two lesser legends to make a powerful individual.
For example, Lobo, King of Currumpaw fused with the Headless Horseman to make the Hessian Lobo.

>>52144797
Sounds like the ultimate Swiss army knife servant.

>>52144637
I wanna try making it less straightforward.

How about this. Jason, based on the end of his life. Class doesn't matter right now. His NP is still the Argo, but instead of the proud ship of his glory days it's a rotting ghost ship. The crew is made up of specters from his memories. The Argo itself reflects his misery, his nostalgia, and his failure to reconcile with his past mistakes. In part I think this can be justified by the Argo's nature as prophetic. It mocks him with his own past by reflecting his cracked dreams and memories back on him. He's still the captain and still commands the ship, but the ship has its own torturous power over him as a reminder of his tragedy. The ship is his treasure and his yoke.

Basically, not Jason the hero, but Jason the broken man.

>>52144916
Saber hair, but still.

Still no:
Muromets lancer
Sokolnik assassin
Dobrinya saber\rider
Popovitch saber\archer
Svytogor berserker
Peresvet lancer
Kolovrat berserker\avenger
Elena the beautiful caster
Vasilisa the wise caster
Maria Morevna as rider(?)\lancer
Volha Vseslavovich rider
Prince Ivan\Ivan the fool archer\rider
Olga of Kiev caster\avenger
Vladimir saber
Peter the Great rider
Dmitriy of the Don rider
Aleksander Nevsky saber\rider
Rasputin caster
Pushikin caster
STILL no Ivan the terrible
No Kutuzov (where the fuck is Napoleon btw)

No motherfucking Koschei as saber\caster\rider

And that is not counting minor bogatyrs and spiritual\nechist fuckers.

Where are slav servants at?

>>52145005

So essentially we've hit the point where Fate/ is making up rules to justify having literally fictional people formed out of other fictional people.

But Kojiro somehow isn't real people.

I'm not even >>52144751 and I mad, that's the dumbest shit. I'm sure it's basically just an excuse for Arturia to get a million more powerups, too. God dammit.

>>52144776

The most batshit one I can think of would be

Nero - Rama - Karna - Oddysseus - Judas Iscariot - Abdul Al-Hazrad - Cain

>>52144927
One of Solomon's demon pillars spent a few thousand years learning how to fuse phantoms (think weak spirits which could not typically manifest as servants on their own) with other stuff such as wraiths and heroic spirits.

The result was that Lobo the King of Currumpaw was fused with the Hessian of Sleepy Hollow, Yan Qing of Water Margin was fused with a doppelganger, and Professor James Moriarty was fused with the Freischütz.

>>52144776

Also, seven Hercules accounting for the seven points in his life - Young Hercules Saber, Hercules riding the Hydra, the Hercules from Strange/Fake as Archer, Hercules + that Egyptian god of magic he's conflated with as Caster, regular old Berserkules, and Hercules wearing the Nemean Lion as Lancer. The Assassin is from his time when he was crossdressed as a maid so she's superstrong waifu Hercules.

>>52145083
>seven Hercules

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>52145049
>So essentially we've hit the point where Fate/ is making up rules to justify having literally fictional people formed out of other fictional people.

We hit that point back in 2004 with Stay night, I mean two of the routes are literally built around 2 massive plot holes the size of the titanic steam-rolling through the hastily cobbled together rules that barely survive chapter to chapter.

>>52138534
I play Igraine on another website. . . . she looks like Lancer Arturia.

She's an Assassin, though. Also, Uther isn't viable- he was murdered by Vortigern.

>>52145049
>But Kojiro somehow isn't real people.
Sasaki Kojiro was a real person. Fake Assassin said as much in FSN. But Fake Assassin is not actually Sasaki Kojiro. He's just a some guy whose ghost was mashed together with Sasaki Kojiro's legend.

I'd prefer Angel Notes verse personally because Ether Knights and co remind me of space marines and IG, only with more reality fuckery and a guy tanking an exploding star/core/thing to the face even though it destroys a continent(and nothing else magically).

>>52144988
Basically, things that don't have the spiritual stature to be summoned into a Servant vessel, referred to as Phantoms, can be either grafted onto Servants (Moriarty, who would normally be a Caster, has the attributes of the Freischütz put onto him to make him an Archer) or combined to reach summonable status (the Hessian who became the Headless Horseman plus the wolf Lobo).

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>>52144776
You could just have asked for this old thing.

>>52145152
I did not know this existed, although I now question why I would have thought it didn't.

>>52145049
There was somebody named Sasaki Kojirou, he just didn't use the "hidden sword technique Tsubame Gaeshi" and the nameless hobo (who can use the Tsubame Gaeshi) that Medea summoned wasn't him.

>>52145198
It's amazing how a hobo reached the pinnacle of swordsmanship in between begging for change and drinking.

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Posting best and cutest Caster
Why are /tg/ Fate threads so comfy?

>>52145258
Her relationship with the kung-fu language teacher was pretty great.

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>>52145230
He got gud

>>52145230
"Endless Repetition" is a hell of a drug.

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>>52145258
>best
My brother. Truly she is the best.

>>52145139

My brother of unspecified African descent.

>>52145298
He got too gud.

>>52145131
>some guy whose ghost was mashed together with Sasaki Kojiro's legend

Composite servant kinda like Lobo?

>>52145078
Yan Qing and Moriarty were Heroic Spirits, albeit relatively weak ones, weren't they? I'm pretty sure the gacha version of Yan Qing doesn't have any of Doppelganger in him.

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>>52145313
Prime waifu material
she's also sexy as fuck

>>52145322
So gud that he could be gud thrice in a single instant.

>>52145318
Slash Emperor.
Ado mother fucking Edem.
The main guy and his trusty gun taking down an eldritch plant monster that later bevomes an Angelfu.
How even the weakest mook can punch with the force of a nuclear explosion.

I wish Nasu and co continued it. So much potential.

>>52145230
I wish I had saved that FGO image of him beating that dragon boss single handed.

>>52145333
No, not really.

Basically there was a man named "Sasaki Kojiro", but this guy was a fuckin' jobber and the only reason his name lived on is because of the myth.

However his technique and legendary sword and technique were real. They were simply not wielded by him. The nameless wraith shown in F/SN is that man, he masquerades under the name "Sasaki Kojiro" because he is a nameless wraith shoved into the role of "Sasaki Kojiro" as there is no one else to fill the role.

>>52145333
I suppose, kinda. It seems to follow the same principle, but I suspect that the methods were considerably different.

>>52145362
So good he warps reality with no magic whatsoever.

>>52145399
And neither of them fought Musashi.

And Musashi was a busty girl in another timeline.

>>52145351
Grade A wife.
Should have been in Extella instead of Tamamo.

>>52145362
>>52145406
I will admit, I have such a fucking boner who can stand toe-to-toe with supernatural magical beings and legends alike purely on the basis of their skill.
Fake Assassin is my nigga.

>>52145392
>tfw /fgog/ create a meme so famous that Nasu made it canon in an event
Sasuga

>>52145376

It's Humanity Fuck Yeah but also Humanity Is Fucked and it's kind of amazing how he managed to hit both elements at the same time, in stride.

Ado Edem is the fucking best.

>>52145334
Yan Qing seemingly does qualify to be summoned as a proper servant. He just had the phantom melded to him in the story. I don't think he's weak in either case, though.

>>52145425
Absolute skill guys are the best.
Archer and by a greater extent Fake Assassin are truly the best.

>>52145333
Not quite.
Lobo is 2 different spirits\legends who can be only operate as a servant if they are together.
Anne Bonny and Mary Read are somewhat similar for different reason. They both are the singular sevent because their legend is inspreabble.

Assassin" Sasaki" is an amalgamation of Sasaki person who was never that important in Nasuverse, but whose name is known and some random dude who sworded hard enough to sword three times at the same time.

>>52145425
Would you say you also like EMIYA, albeit in a diminished manner? He was literally just a shitty mage who got so good at murder over the years that as a servant he can stand up to actual mythical beings.

>>52145451
Eh, I wouldn't say Archer is especially good in that regard. He had easy modo in the fact that Avalon warped his origin to Sword, and allowed him to perform his Reality Marble.

Sasaki Kojirou is much more spectacular in that regard, because he had nothing but a sword, a desire to kill that fucking swallow and loads of time.

>>52145465
Getting empowered by the planet probably helped a bit. And do note that he only won something like a single fight in the whole of FSN.

>>52145465
>He was literally just a shitty mage
Influenced by one of the most powerful relics in existence and spruced up by the Counter Force. He's the exact opposite of a random Joe.

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>>52145422
Both are great

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What the fuck is this shit

>>52145433
>Up against furries and monster girls that man created in the past that are walking nuclear platforms at their weakest and reality fuckers of the highest order at their strongest
>man is barely scraping by thanks to Ether Knights
>Regular, non modified humans are borderline extinct and have to take drugs not to die from earth's atmosphere and have to eat special food because the regular stuff is so nutritious it's poisonous to them
>Earth is dead
>Really fucking dead
>The Great Ones from each planet decide to crash the war party on behalf of Earth's will and throw their own party
>You cannot kill that which cannot comprehend "death" or "die"
>Ado mother fucking Edem kills two of those aliens, gets an explosion to the face, and is ARRESTED FOR BEING TOO BADASS AND IS THEN LOCKED UP IN SOME DIMENSIONAL PRISON OR SOMETHING

>>52145541
Sword is a hell of a drug.

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I'll take Baibars, the og mamluk, as my rider. Fuck crusaders and fuck Mongols.

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>>52145541
A tasteful application of the Kintsukuroi technique, or however it's called.

>>52145541
He wouldn't look so bad if it weren't for the niggerlips

>>52145490
He also went up against Lanver, a high level hero, and held him off.
Granted, Lancer couldn't go 100%, but it's still a feat.

>>52145519
Didn't Avalon only prevent him from dying or getting sick?

>>52145598
Nope, Shirou's original Origin wasn't Sword. Avalon changed that, allowing him to perform his Reality Marble.

>>52145535
But Medea is better.

>>52145598
Without Arturia being around all Avalon did was change his origin and magic attribute.

Considering that under some very specific and non standard circumstances you can summon such bullshit as a Fake Rider and Watcher in SF, is it possible to summon something as bullshit as Unknown Soldier or some similar conceptual based personas?

BTW, was it revealed what the Watcher is, yet?

>>52145555

Locked up in the Magical Castle of Absolute Bullshit subtly implied to be Castle Brunestud. With a shitload of chains.

They didn't just lock his ass up, they locked his ass up PROMETHEUS style.

>>52145610
Where does it say that?
Cause origin shifting sounds like bullshit.

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>>52145611
Great taste in this thread

>>52145610
>allowing him to perform his Reality Marble.
More like it influenced what his Reality Marble became. What actually allows him to manifest it is his autism.

>>52145610
Avalon only changed his magical alignment, you don't change origins without reaching the root.

>>52145598
Without Avalon there wouldn't be an Emiya, there wouldn't be an Unlimited Blade Works, there would quite likely not be any superhero antics at all.

>>52145631
Yeah, let's lock up the one guy capable of fending off super god aliens and prevent us from dying horribly just because he makes everyone else look bad.
It'd be like if The Emperor was arrested and locked up after killing the 4 chaos gods and a few C'tan.

>>52145658
Wasn't the fire, and all that, what shaped him? This is sounding like fanfic tier bullshit.

>>52145657
>>52145633
>Though Saber is already gone when Kiritsugu implants it within Shirou, the residual energy residing within it is enough to resuscitate him. It becomes inert afterward, but it draws him closer to swords and actually changes his Elemental Affinity and Origin to "Sword" as well.
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Avalon

Look for the exact source somewhere in the references, but I do remember this being discussed in the original VN at lengths.

>>52145696
The fire killed who he was. Avalon and Kiritsugu's ideal served as the foundation for who he would become after.

>>52145636
I wonder if her Aunt will appear? Circe?

>>52145701
>fanon wiki
Nope

>Q: Archer's greatest defense is "Rho Aias", but if he were the same person as Shirou, shouldn't his greatest protection be "Avalon"? In the Rin route, Archer knew that the holy sword's sheath was inside Shirou, so wouldn't the Heroic Spirit form of the Shirou that "knew" that the sheath was merged with him be Archer?
>A: Avalon's power won't work if Saber's not connected to it. It's a different story during the Grail War, but all it does when Saber isn't around is make Shirou's magic attribute into "sword". Also, after the Grail War is taken apart, the line between him and her will be gone, so it's best to think that his image of "Avalon" also disappeared.

>all it does when Saber isn't around is make Shirou's magic attribute into "sword"
the idea that it touched his origin is 100% fanon

>>52145678
Before the Types showed up Ado Edem wasn't really anything special.

>>52145711
So Avalon can shift elements now when it did jack to Kiri? Or does it require you to be a broken husk?

>>52145749
Maybe because Kiritsugu didn't have it inside him for ten years.

>>52145737
The Types really brought out his latent badassery.

>>52145749
Kerry only had it inside him for a couple of days. Shirou had it inside him for most of his life. The change was a gradual process.

>>52145733
It still allowed him to easily manifest NP-level swords without draining his body of mana to a husk.
Face it, no Avalon - no EMIYA.

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>>52145258
Caster is for bullying.

>>52145541
EMIYA became a Nigger.

>>52145541
BLACKED