Why are rangers always the same? >muh arrowz >muh nature

We actually came across this problem in a game design group I'm working with, and we were struggling to find reasons why we shouldn't just make Ranger a Rogue variant. Ranged combat, stealth, two weapon fighting and a focus on skills with a degree of overlap between the two... Basing the two on the same chassis, even if we gave them different features, skills etc, made a lot of sense given how narrow Rangers are in concept.

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>>52076764
A gun-toting trophy hunter.

>>52076808
I disagree in that they should be a Rogue subtype, but they should definitely have some conceptual overlap. I see a Ranger as the Rogue of the countryside, they should be able to do all the stuff Rogues can in buildings but in the wilderness.

The other issue is that very few campaigns, by omitting food and water and tracking enemies, allow the ranger to behave they should be behaving.

>>52076764
>why is this specific niche class such a specific niche

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>>52076764
NPC Ranger in my campaign, Lysander of the Long Arm.
Warrior-hero of a nomadic peoples inhabiting a rocky barrens of a post-debacle Greek-style civilization, a strength-based Ranger who has a unique style of Javelin fighting, and also uses a long Xyston in combat.

The hostile Barrens are plagued by Giant Chameleon Toads and deadly Giant Centipedes and the like, so he more of a aggressor against the local fauna than a preserver. He's constantly getting his people and merchant caravans out of jams.

I've played them as the following:
>military sniper/assassin
>literal sheepfucker
>sewer cleaner/rat exterminator
None except maybe the sheepfucker were "muh nature".

>>52076904

Well, I misspoke. Our current plan is more like making 'Ranger' and 'Rogue' variants of the same base class.

>>52076904

Could jam it into the warrior archetype, but make them warriors who specialize in ranged weapons rather than exclusively melee. Crossbows, bows and trick shots, blackpowder, bayonets where applicable, or even specializing in thrown spears for melee and longer range.

Because "Ranger" is something that should never have been a class or character archetype, much like "Monk". It's far too specific.

>>52077121
"Ranger" doesn't really have a well defined archetype, monk has like 5. This makes it a lot worse than monk.

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I think that's more of a problem with Elves than it is with rangers. I can think of a few rangers or snipers from different genres of fiction who had interesting personalities. Minsc from BG obviously, Shinon from Fire Emblem por, and pic related.
I think the reason Drow were so popular is because they're a race of pristine and beautiful immortals that's not quite as flat as
>muh woods
>muh magic
>muh magic woods
>muh god complex

>>52077121
It's no more "specific" than the raging Barbarian or the Paladin.

The main problem is that the Ranger class tries to be all things to all players, a stealthy survivalist/fighter/spellcasting nature Paladin.

>>52077182
If you looked at Minsc and didn't know he was a ranger, would you say he's a ranger? He's pretty much a two weapon barbarian with a hamster.

This is the problem with the ranger.

>>52077182

Shinon was amazing.

Now I want to make an archer who is such an asshole he is also inexplicably the party's main melee tank.

>>52076764
Chipper, eccentric camping enthusiast who's at home in the most absurd places known to mankind. Has a bunch of 'this reminds me of that time' stories.
>This reminds me of that time I freed a cougar trapped under a fallen tree.
>This reminds me of that time I got caught in a far south snowstorm buck-naked.
>This reminds me of that one time I got caught by desert slavers.

>>52077197
"Barbarian" is any warrior who channels their rage into power. Anyone with an anger problem can be a barbarian.
"Paladin" is anyone who abides by an oath to gain power, the whole "holy servant of the light" shtick was 3.X only. A celtic warrior with geasa would qualify as a paladin.

Monk has more options than ranger though, but it still has a problem of "graceful martial artist from distant lands" since not everyone who fights with fists is appropriate to Monk.

>>52077398

I think 'Monk' works better as a general framework for eastern style martial heroes. 'Xia' or similar might be a better name for the base class.

>>52077197
Paladins protect civilization from itself.
Rangers protect civilization from the wilds.

Maybe work it that way? Both are a higher calling to serve more than just yourself, and make them equally as rare/principled?

In older editions of DnD, if I recall correctly, Ranger was a variant of Fighter, and had fairly high requirements. Jimbob Murderhobo form up in the woods wouldn't be a ranger, he'd be a fighter or rogue with survival or nature skill.

>>52077121
Every class is specific except casters which can do everything with muh magic.

The real issue is that most games don't have much in the way of actual rules for exploration or survival. Trail rations are cheap and most groups don't even track them. A ranger cannot do anything that a player cannot buy at a store or having a fucking wizard do for him.

Now, in my more sober E6 games, rangers are vital to making sure you aren't walking around with Con drain, because if you go more than 2 days without food you start losing a point of Con per day without food, and an extra point if you don't have clean water, either. And it's easy to get turned around in the woods if you don't know where you are....

But still of course you can just carry trail rations, there goes half the fun of playing a ranger. Oh well. Maybe back in AD&D when iron rations were actually expensive.

>>52077436
>Rangers protect civilization from the wilds.
Then what would Druids be doing then?

>>52077501
>E6
Never played, but it sort of appeals to me. What's been your experience with it?
>>52077532
Protecting the wilds from civilization.

>>52077257
But he "is" a ranger, and that's tied to his character. The whole hamster and spiritual journey into the wild thing.
Any character is going to fall flat, if you don't have a person to tie the archetype to, and giving the archetype showtime is purely optional.
>>52077314
Most of the characters from those two games are amazing. Marcia and her bum brother. Soren. Zihark. I think Lethe was the only character I flatout disliked in PoR. She shows no overt sign of suffering any great deal from the beorc, but she was still a more relentless biddy than the actual fucking slaves and genocide survivors in the party.

>>52077463
>Fighter
>one who fights
>specific

>Barbarian, who battles with rage
>Paladin, who swears an oath
>Rogue, who strikes at weaknesses
>Psion, who wields the mind
>Bard, who... something about music (Bards are less limited than anyone since they don't really do anything specifically)

It's not really that they're limited, so much as there's a lot of casting classes and not actually that many martials.
You could argue that Paladin's limited by its variations since you only get so much room within those variations, but there's so many ways to interpret "magical oath that grants power" that I find it pretty generic once you actually start thinking about it. Paladin of Honor, what 3.X made baseline, is hardly the only one.

>>52077532
>Then what would Druids be doing then?
Protecting the wilds from civilization.
In a very stereotypical way: rangers would protect pioneers or frontier villages from wild beasts and creatures. A druid would lead those wild beats and creatures against the pioneers and frontier villages.

>>52077566
>But he "is" a ranger, and that's tied to his character. The whole hamster and spiritual journey into the wild thing.

And a barbarian isn't a man of the wild with spirituality relating to nature?

He's a ranger because he has "ranger" written on his sheet.

>>52077668
>And a barbarian isn't a man of the wild with spirituality relating to nature?
Nope. Barbarians are people who turn rage into power. The only lore-luggage they come with is they have to be able to be durable without armor, typically from having strong muscles.
Ranger, however, has to have a magic connection to the land, an animal friend, an enemy they are an expert at tracking and slaying, and great talent at moving through wildlands.

>>52077121
If you think Ranger is an overly specific Sneaky Fucker and Monk an overly specific Punchy Bastard, you might as well merge Barbarian, Paladin etc. into Punchy Bastard and Sorcerer, Warlock etc. into Magicky Douche.

>>52077668
He has an animal companion too.
>And a barbarian isn't a man of the wild with spirituality relating to nature?
There's not necessarily a spirituality to either class.
Minsc said in the first game that he's a ranger just because he loves nature (which makes sense, because an aggressive basket case like Minsc couldn't make it as a bread winner or a shop owner, and his heart's too kind for raiding or warfare).

>>52077713
Yep, 0E had it right. Fighting-Man and Magic-User are all you need. Even Cleric shouldn't have existed.

>>52076764
Make them a messenger/delivery guy for not-amazon.
>Travels long distances, solo, to remote locations
So of course the job requires survival skills

>>52077701
>Nope. Barbarians are people who turn rage into power.

Too bad literally all of the D&D editions that have barbarians disagree with you.

AD&D
> The Barbarian is a sub-class of fighter. In addition to extraordinary fighting abilities, they have skills related to survival in the wilderness.

Not even raging, but does have wilderness/survival

>3.5
...

I actually can't find a description online and already gave my 3.5 books away. Anyway, he's got wilderness and animal shit on his skill list.

>4e

When they rage, they are literally possessed by spirits of nature.

>5e

Totem barbarians, full stop.

>>52077757
>He has an animal companion too.

It's a pet hamster. You don't need a class feature for a pet hamster.

>Minsc said in the first game that he's a ranger just because he loves nature

You are still putting the cart before the horse. A barbarian can (and in most incarnation does) love nature. Minsc can call himself ranger all he wants, just because he's a ranger in fluff, doesn't mean he couldn't have a barbarian class. It's not like you have the name of your class tattooed on your face.

>>52077763
Skill and Stamina are the only two numerical stats you need.
Prove me wrong.

I always saw Rangers as the "hate" class.

I'm shaped by favored enemy being a defining characteristic. So like the Witcher or a tracker.

>>52077841

'Need' is impossible to define outside of a specific context. For the purposes of different games in different genres with different tones and themes, a vast variety of stats might be 'needed'.

>>52077821
>It's a pet hamster.
It's class-based humor. Most rangers choose a feline, hawk, or canine of some sort. Minsc chose his miniature giant space hamster.
>A barbarian can (and in most incarnation does) love nature.
Nature is certainly not what is best in life though.

>>52077121
This is why I like classless systems. The crunch follows your fluff, instead of the crunch and the fluff being the same thing.

>>52077841
Skill in what?

Are you arguing you should have one number that represents how good you are at casting, hitting and making pastry?

Also defense is a pretty important number. I'm sure you'll say "well hp and ac can be the same number " which quickly dissallows archetypes like a ninja who is frail but fast.

Your argument is like saying you need two stats "fighting and talking". While you could run a game like that it would suck.

>>52077841
Advanced Fighting fantasy second edition has skill, stamina, luck and magic, and yeah, you can leave out the last two easily.

I'd start by not making him a goddamn druid if sorts and base him upon his skills. A ranger is a person of the woods (or whatever terrain he's familiar with) so I'd say he most likely will use traps and use the environment against his foes. So leave all the nature hugging to the druids and make him the aggressor. He's a predator and a smart one at that.

>>52077821
>AD&D
As a sub-class it has thematic baggage, sub-classes work that way, this was before it was its own class.
>3.5
Skills are for the player to invest in exclusively and don't comment on the class itself.
>4E
4E changed a lot of things, but PHB2 reintroduced the Original Barbarian subclass anyway. They lose the primal spirit deal and work on pure rage.
>Totem barbarians, full stop.
Archetypes, like sub-classes, come with thematic baggage.

Rangers are the militant version of scouts. They are all about getting into advantaged fights. You do that by tracking your prey, not being seen, and striking when your prey is most vulnerable. There is no better class at hunting bandits hiding in the wild or being a bandit hiding in the wild. Any sort of active thievery by a rogue will be caught eventually because there is risk with each heist, but it will take an concerted military engagement, often guided by a ranger, to root out bandits led by a ranger.

>>52077841
>His game has stats
Fucking pleb

>>52076764
Happy-go-lucky Urban Ranger with a focus on duels, and winning them by tripping people and hitting them with his hanbo while they try and get back up. Used to work for a blacksmith. His old job had him running on rooftops for faster deliveries.

I miss playing him.

Like many things in D&D, they really only existed to facilitate LoTR ripoffs.

>>52078074
>He plays games
Get on my level, fag.

>>52078089
>Having a level
Really, anon?

>>52078085
Yeah, because Aragorn was totally an archer-spellcaster with animal companions.

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Some kinda highly conservative Afghan-like dude who hunts mountain lions with a Jezail.

>>52078085
Gimli was a Fighter
Legolas was a Fighter with high Spot/Perception
Aragorn was a Fighter with a Survival specialty
Fucking Gandalf was a Fighter with Eldritch Knight prestige/archetype at best

>>52076764
>it's "i can't make a subtype unique!" episode on /tg/
THAT'S WHY THEY ARE SUBTYPES, YOU STUPID FUCK
HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A PALADIN THAT'S NOT ABOUT MUH SMITING
A DRUID THAT IS NOT ABOUT MUH NATURE
A CLERIC THAT IS NOT ABOUT MUH GODS
THAT'S LITERALLY TIED INTO THEIR CLASSES

YOU WANT TO AVOID STEREOTYPING? DON'T PLAY CLASS-BASED SYSTEMS WHERE CLASSES ARE NARROW AS FUCK

>>52077548
>What's been your experience with it?

Some short West-Marches-style exploration campaigns. Mostly based around battling 3 enemy factions trying to accomplish their own goals, which were slowly discovered over time.

I like E6 because it focuses the game quite a bit. Combat remains deadly, even a shitty build can still do okay damage-wise. It's not a solution to 3.x problems by any means but it is nice for lower-powered fantasy.

Also did one where players were caravan guards / merchants (the rogues and wizads) and traded in spices and other commodities with prices out of the Arms and Equipment guide. It was a lot of bookeeping but fun to run a business organically.

Another nice thing about E6: lack of treasure dependency. It's not until level 8 or 9 that not having your +2 sword and +2 armor starts to REALLY hurt you and make the game unplayable. So, magic items can be rare in E6, and the general treasure values much lower, making things such as merchantry much more viable as a means to earn money.

>>52078199
>Aragorn was a Fighter with a Survival specialty
Aragorn is a Ranger
Legolas is actually a fighter with archery focus in MERP
>Gandalf was a fighter
Gandalf is a bard or druid (and planetouched)

>>52078240
What about Faramir and Boromir?

>>52077398
Yeah Paladin used to be Fighter subtype with no god bend but still had a somewhat religous bend

>>52078240
>Aragorn is a Ranger
Does he have an animal companion?

Does he cast druid spells?

Does he even fight with two weapons or is an expert archer?

He's a ranger in fiction, but Aragorn has more in common with a paladin, what with the king's touch being able to heal and shit.

>>52077434
>'Xia' or similar might be a better name for the base class.
Nothing you have to google to know what it means is a good name for a base class.

>>52078240
>Aragorn is a Ranger
No he isn't. He's a Fighter with a high Survival skill and a notable Wisdom score. Name one Ranger-esque thing he has. Is he an orc-hunting professional (moreso than a typical warrior)? Does he draw magic from the land? Does he commune with animals? Does he have an animal friend?

He has knowledge of herbs and tracking, as well as a knack for overland travel, but that's all the Survival skill at play.

>>52077713
>Sorcerer, Warlock etc. into Magicky Douche.
Unironically yes, there aren't enough points of differentiation not to, just have warlock and sorcerer as character specialisations.

Oh and stop making one specialisation of every bloody class 'like vanilla but with spell slots'.

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>>52078253
Fighters and fighters and fighters and fighters. LotR was an all Fighter party. (With a disguised Astral Deva hanging out)
You could make a small case for the hobbits to be rogues but more like they're just low level fighters who get lucky occasionally.

>>52076764
Lawman who captures criminals and fugitives who escaped from the city and fled to the wilder parts. Sort of a Mix of those lion dudes from Samurai Jack and Inspector Javere.

>>52076764
muh poisoned weapon
muh mad ac
muh camouflage
MUH animalz Zlave
muh lute
muh dragonscale

>>52076764
>capital city guardsman/constable sent to some bumfuck village to play sheriff
>young and inexperienced but learns fast
>has a bow but prefers twin swords
>rescued a wolf from a hunter's trap and it's a pretty solid companion so far
>friendly with all of the townsfolk
>complete hardass to any outsiders looking to cause trouble

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Interesting topic /tg/. I've got another one;

At which point is a character considered a Ranger rather than a Hunter?

>>52077575

Between the Paladin, Crusader, Cleric, Priest, and Healer, there are a whole lot of classes that fill the "holy dude" niche distrubted across varying degrees of magical ability.

>>52077372

basically Just make them a Canadian?

>>52078300
>Does he have an animal companion?

No, he obviously took the Hunters Bond variant to give his allies he favored enemy bonuses.

>Does he cast druid spells?
Yes. Well, he can cast "spells" (in the Tolkien way, where spells are small and subtle enough that you might not even know it) Delay Poison, Longstrider, Pass Without Trace, Tireless Pursuit, and probably several others.

>Does he even fight with two weapons or is an expert archer?
Yes, and yes. His off hand weapon was a dagger (when he bothered to use it) and he was only surpassed by Legolas as far as archery was concerned.

He also had several notable Ranger class features. Favored Enemy (Orc), Track, Endurance, Favored Terrain (Forest).

He's a pretty typical Ranger.

>>52077855
>hate
yeah i made a guy that was turned into a frogman by an unknown witch, so he had witches as favored enemies

>>52076764
Classes are mechanical bounds, the fluff you put on those mechanical bounds is up to you

I've played urban rangers and wilderness rogues. Barbarians that enter a "battle trance" and fighters who fly into battle frothing at the mouth. Monks with no formal training, just years of experience in bar brawls and and druids using ancient eastern mysticism to work their magic

>>52076764
Play it as a western movie cowboy.

>>52076764
I recently tried middle finger's Master Thrower homebrew for 5e. He was a show-offy ex-gladiator egomaniac who was all about the sport and style of the kill instead of money or fame.
It's pretty satisfying, especially with tavern brawler and eldritch knight. You can turn basically anything into a ranged weapon, and having a bound thrown weapon is just like a better boomerang.

Some cool shit I got to do with him:
>Picked up a rock, tossed it super hard and cast conjure barrage, turning it into a giant buckshot blast.
>With the ranger variant that uses maneuvers you could trip people just by tossing a dagger at their heels
>Pinned two guys to the wall with just kitchen utensils
>Flicked an arrow into someone's skull
>Unloaded 2 dozen dinner plates into one guy's face
>Tossed a battleaxe through a man's torso
>Interrupted and disarmed folks casting spells or attacking my allies while looking cool at the same time
>One of my allies upgraded my scale armor so under each scale was a small knife pouch for one of my daggers
>Always had gold to spare beacause shit was super cheap for him because daggers cost such little money, handaxes and hammers too
>Never had to pay for taverns because his entertainer background lets him do juggling acts for food and shelter

Only downside was that if someone were to hand him an enchanted weapon, he'd end up tossing it immediately.

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>>52076764
By playing him as pic related. A gentleman explorer and big game hunter. He was a master of the wildlands and a hunter of the most dangerous game, so long as his porters and beaters were there to witness his greatness.

>>52076764
Crazy obsessed vagrant racist out to genocide their chosen enemy.

>>52077398
>"Paladin" is anyone who abides by an oath to gain power
I guess a warlock is a paladin

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>>52078386
>Name one Ranger-esque thing he has.
His job is Ranger of the North. He's rugged and is more comfortable in the wilds.

>Is he an orc-hunting professional (moreso than a typical warrior)?
Is every ranger a professional monster slayer? He's REALLY good at fighting evil beings, more than other Fellowship members (bar Gandalf, who defies class tropes.)

> Does he draw magic from the land?
He can track orc movements by hearing the vibration from the ground. That sounds a lot like the "Preferred Enemy" from the Ranger class, huh? He can also concoct healing potions from herbs and grasses found in the wilds.

>Does he commune with animals?
He calmed a furious horse of Rohan with a touch while other Rohirrim failed, and said horse only let him ride it.

>Does he have an animal friend?
Said horse aside, the Ranger has two archetypes in the PHB, Aragorn is the killy hunter Archetype.

>He has knowledge of herbs and tracking, as well as a knack for overland travel, but that's all the Survival skill at play.
That's like saying Gimly is a wizard with proficiency in Athletics and high STR and CON.

Next time you pretend to know anything about Lord of the Rings or classic DnD classes, try to read the books first. Your newfag and idiocy is showing.

>>52076764
My Ranger was a member of a clone army created by an alchemist in the devil controlled nation to be angel hunters. After five years of being sent of suicide missions I'm the only one left standing and I want revenge for my brothers. I carry around a harpoon so I can drag winged creatures down to the ground.

Let's create a unique ranger one feature at a time.

I'll start

>He throws greatswords

>>52076764
>>52076808
>>52076904
To my mind, a ranger is a sort of country irregular to the fighters soldier of the line. Rangers are basically tacticool fighters with a variety of survival and ancillary skills.

If I could homebrew a system I would call them Yeomen, and they'd be a combination of game wardens and light cavalry, riding the backwoods and countryside in search of threats.

>>52084234
Although I agree with you, there's a few counterpoints. His sharp senses are because of his royal Numenorean heritage, and his ability to use Athelas as a healing concoction is literally used as proof that he's the rightful king of Gondor.

>>52084298
he crawls around on all fours for maximum stealth

>>52084298
>The ranger must have a verbal tic of some kind

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>>52077014
>Warrior-hero of a nomadic peoples
>inhabiting a rocky barrens of a post-debacle Greek-style civilization
>a strength-based Ranger who has a unique style of Javelin fighting

>>52084341
>>52084298
every 15 seconds he has an uncontrollable urge to scream out as if in pain

he cannot prevent this but he can stuff socks in his mouth to help muffle it

>>52084298
He has rather severe allergies.

>>52084372
allergies to plantlife

>>52076764
Get rid of the grumpy survivor preconception and you'll see a lot more options.

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>>52076764
>All rangers love nature
Why can't we have one that utterly hates nature? One whose sole motivation is "fuck animals" and who learned the most effective ways to recognize, track, hunt and kill animals because fuck animals? Maybe his backstory is that he was once bitten by a dog and that day decided "fuck animals".

>>52078085
Gygax was a whore for Conan and Grey Mouser

>>52084614
A rock element-aligned ranger who hates nature because it has taken over what was once an entirely rocky planet

He vows to destroy all nature

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>>52076764
This guy
Alternatively, the Kratt Brothers

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>>52084664
>This planet was once beautiful. Rock, smog and asphalt as far as the eye can see.
>But then those hue-mens came. They brought their trees and their shrubberies and their animals and their vegetables.
>But no more. This is where we stand. This is where we fight. This is where they die.
>We are the ESP (Eco-Special Forces)

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>>52084707
>P
When did I forget how to spell words?

>>52084724
Eco-Special Phorces

>>52081103
I think a Ranger is more about survivalism and protecting nature in a less magic-heavy way than a Druid would, whilst a Hunter is all about that big game & trophy hoarding, with the optional trait of actually giving a fuck about preserving nature.

>>52076764
its not suppose to be "different" theyre fantasy archetypes, ranger is aragorn/wow hunter/drizzt

offtopic but one of my favorite CYOA's is the Hunter CYOA

This is like those constant threads asking why Dwarves are always the same. Things don't get less based with use.

>>52084965
what would the anti-dwarf be like?

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>>52084994
Gee I dunno boss

>>52085013
i wanted a meme answer

>>52085021
Elves are a fucking meme

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>>52084701
Now I want to play one half of a Katt Bros ranger duo.

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>>52085046
>>52085021
>>52085013
>>52084994
>>52084965
Comment chains like this are why I love /tg/.

>>52076764
I'd like to play a ranger as Paul Bunyan someday.

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What do I do if there are some problem players in my party? I'm new to tabletop, and wanted to start up a Phandelver campaign on Roll20. We had our first game last Sunday, and while three players are great fun and are loving it, two just put me off, and I feel like they may or may not be exploiting my naivete to their advantage. One is this British guy who plays a cleric who always tries to do funny, but practical stuff like flipping over the stream in Cragmaw Cave. One is a cleric of Pelor who wields a shovel with mace stats, and really thinks outside of the box, like casting light to blind enemies. The last guy can't roll for shit but his laid back style really resonates with me and the other two. The dynamic fucking duo; one is a rules lawyer/power gamer hybrid who is nice to have, but he always slows down combat to a screeching halt every five minutes, and with a homebrew race that is overpowered as fuck, stealing the spotlight from everybody. The last guy is also overpowered, but slightly my fault, as I let him be a variant human, with, you guessed it, the Lucky feat. With my misunderstanding, and the nature of the feat himself, he just feels untouchable, not to mention that he derails RP and doesn't like to speak up during combat, leaving me lost as to what exactly he does and how to challenge him. Both of these guys just sucked the fun out of the session, honestly, even if there are supposed to be slow parts to each session. What do I do with these players? It's Roll20 so I could just give them the finger and leave them in the dust, but I don't feel like that's the right thing to do? What do fellow DMs do with players like these? Leave them in the dust, or try to salvage a passable player from them? Sorry about the wall of text; just really need some advice. Thanks for any advice at all, even if it's just telling me to fucking deal with it.

>>52085175
So, some kind of Quarter Giant with a weirdly colored Ox as his animal companion.

What would his favored enemy be?

>>52085822
Treekin

>>52085507
You should probably make a thread about this instead of asking in a conversation on class archetype.

Anyway, there's a saying I like that applies to your issue:
>Almost everyone deserves a second chance. No one deserves a third.
Bring up the issues with your players. Tell them they'll need to fix them if they want to keep playing. If they immediately throw a shitfit, kick them out. If the problem persists, kick them out too.

It's important that you have fun. If players are sucking the fun out of the game? Maybe you can fix it. If you can't fix it, don't hurt your fun over it. They're out.

Generally it's acceptable to bring up an issue and say "hey, I noticed this thing. It upsets the way the game runs and makes it less fun for me. I can't GM properly if I'm frustrated about the game, so I'm going to ask you to do this if you want to keep playing."

Like
>"Hey [Name], I messed up when approving your [Thing]. After seeing it in action I noticed it upsets the balance of the game. I'll be changing it a little."
As a general rule of thumb, if your player throws a shitfit about what you bring up, they're immature dicks getting mad about pretend and you don't want them in your group.

>>52077372
>Did I ever tell you 'bout the time my buddy Keith...

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>tfw ranger is your favorite class along with fighter

I always play mine sorta like STALKER but in a fantasy setting. Guys who are from somewhere else just trying to make it in extremely hostile climates, who's hope for riches (or whatever other main objective there is in the game) is tempered by the grim reality that the majority of guys in their situation are going to die horribly. Of course, being rangers, they have a developed skillset around not dying, so they rely on mind and sword edge to make it.

Maybe I'm lame but I've always liked that idea.

>>52076764
I like to play rangers as thrill seeking, treasure hunting explorers. Or more importantly, the exploration expert for a band of like-minded explorers.

Usually requires I dip a little bit into rogue if we're talking d&d, but not always.

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>>52077014
Now that's a citizen.

>>52077436
>Paladins protect civilization from itself.

Are you retarded?

>>52077398
This is exactlyour how one of my players rolls his Ranger while they're in their down time. He's one of my favorite players and I'm trying to get him into a star wars campaign I'm running but he just had a kid and it's hard for him to find time. Makes me sad but I'm happy for him.

>>52087404
Meant for>>52077372
Not>>52077398

>>52076764
Because rangers are a shit class that was only made to cash in on a popularity of a character who got by thanks to plot shielding, but never given explicit plot shield abilities. They never had a place in its own game, therefore they needs to cling to their most obviois superficial traits to preserve any identity.

>>52076764
I liked the idea of Pathfinder's Slayer. Execution is another topic entirely but it kind of covers the broader ground that both Ranger and Rogue should belong to, that is, it covers both more narrow roles and encompasses them as a warrior focused more around tricks and tactics than martial skill.

>>52076764
God guys like you are awful players OP.
I mean I get that sometimes it's hard to be original or that sometimes someone isn't imaginative enough to make a character interesting without making them super ultra unique, but you honestly have to to have someone holding your hand through the most basic RPing elements of the game?
Seriously, go read more or watch more stuff and then legitimately PAY ATTENTION to shit instead of just letting it enter one ear and exit the other without sticking; there's so much fucking inspiration out there for concepts like this or personality that has nothing to do with just the class features that it staggers the imagination that somehow NONE of it has EVER stuck in your head at any point.

Either shape up and open your ears and eyes for awhile or find a game group where anything more complex then rolling to hit or for damage isn't necessary and admit you aren't getting any better at this shit.

>>52076764
dark ranger from wow
talion from shadow mordor

this >>52076857
>>52077046
>sewer cleaner/rat exterminator
lol elaborate

>>52087346

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

>>52076764
Twoflower with a blunderbuss.

>>52078306 is right, and >>52077434 is an idiot

>>52077855
I had forgotten about this aspect.

In retrospect, Guts from Berserk is a ranger with favored enemy [Apostles].

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>>52076764
my ranger
cannibalistic wild elf with spear

>>52084614
The original implementation of a Ranger was just that. He was a protector of civilization from nature and the wilds, because that shit was dangerous. The Ranger would always be on the edge, watching the walls and surrounding wildlands for dangers.

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>>52076764

How do you make a unique anything? Ive run into more than my fare share of Drizz't wannabes but Ive also run into just as many Guts, Gandalfs and a bunch other.

We're playing premade classes out of a gamebook.

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>>52076764
I once played a ranger that was a modron and had 2 hand axes. Specialized in "knowledge streets" (to navigate sigil) and combat expertise - swap attack bonus for AC bonus. +5 AC anytime I wanted. Also whirlwind attacks every now and then.

I was a ranger that never used a ranged weapon, but it was one of the most memorable characters in any of our campaigns - glock the clock (pic related - the hands could be swapped with handaxes). Largely to do with the combination of calculus and sigil-speak that glock spoke in.

>>52083364
>No, he obviously took the Hunters Bond variant to give his allies he favored enemy bonuses.

>he took this one archetype from one knockoff edition of the game, ergo, he's a ranger

>>52076764
>How do you make a ranger unique?
Victorian era hunter, give them some small race (halfling, gnome, goblin) servant named Ubuntu or something and a plethora of different bows depending on their game.

>>52087485
>lol elaborate
They aren't some epic hunter, just an (un)glorified exterminator. Works especially well for level 1 characters where having killed dire wolves or something isn't exactly believable but beating to death 50 rats in a crawlspace is believable.

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I think making characters unique is less important than making sure they have something to actually do.

personality will shine through via natural role playing but if you have a group of adventures and all you throw at them is shit for the wizard to do or whatever then you're gonna end up with a party of uninteresting characters no matter what you do.

basically just don't be a shit GM and everything SHOULD work itself out. YOu don't have to be a perfect one you just have to be a not shit one

>>52077014
>post-debacle Greek-style civilization
Which debacle?

>>52087503
I like it. Obviously it would have to align with the setting but it's a sweet character concept.

>>52091170

Thanks! We're playing a home brew campaign that's fairly low magic, my character is from a Germanic/Norse society who got hired to guide the party through the northern parts of the world. He's actually got his own motives as well though, looking for his remaining family.

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>>52077372
>This reminds me of that time I stuck my hand in a hole full of phantom spiders...

Ranger/Bard insanity.

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>>52077182
>Shinon
My nigga. Shinon was great.

>>52076764
I fucked around with pathfinder's ranger favored enemy stuff a while back and figured out that you can pretty much play a ranger as a serial killer.

Like, favored terrain urban, favored enemy some variation on human/elf/humanoid, put some ranks into crafting traps, and go full saw on motherfuckers. Getting to run free through difficult terrain is awesome when the difficult terrain is a gauntlet of rubble and broken glass.

Ranger's got some variance to it.

>>52076764
Has anyone tried playing a ranger like some Appalachian mountain man?

>>52091496
That's how I usually play rangers.

Play a man with a Sean Connery accent who lives for the thrill of killing the most dangerous game, complete with kobold slave sidekick.

>Ah, yesh! Look here, ladsh- the gynoshphinx we've been tracking hash become aware we're on it'sh trail! It'sh dishguised itsh pawprintsh among shome older tracksh left by your shtandard lion pride, but it'sh made the common mishtake of forgetting itsh wingshpan. You can see the broken brush on either shide it'sh left behind, along with itsh marking shmell... Rambutu! Fetch my machete and teleshcope, and with any luck we'll have thish coy dame'sh riddle out by shuppah!

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>>52076764

>>52076764
>muh nature

This is druids, not rangers.

Rangers have no obligation to actually care about nature, just understand it.

>>52076764
don't

Stereotype rangers are fine.

>your ranger is a time-and-universe displaced German Bundeswehr Panzergrenadier private from the 80s with a matching mustache
>months of being run ragged through the countryside of Germany, camouflaging himself and spending most of his time on his belly crawling through the dirt have made him extremely in tune with nature
>every area of the forest that he hangs out in is soon studded with tripwires, foxholes and hidden barbed wire rolls
>he subsists entirely on beer and what passes for Snickers in this universe
>anyone wanting to learn from him is in for the hazing of a lifetime
>his familiar animal is either a hog or a gestalt mind of either a large mass of moles or earthworms
>he is obsessed with counting down days to the imagined date where he will get teleported back home and screaming this number at people
"TWELVE, YOU FAG"

>>52091496

I punched an Alpaca once

Would Rambo be considered a ranger?

I literally asked my DM to let me kill myself off (playing ranger in 3.5) so I could roll something actually useful to my party. Rangers are just so mediocre at everything and excel at nothing.

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>>52095418
He might have started out as primarily ranger but have been putting nothing but levels in barbarian and fighter since.

>>52076808
Ranger is not a real class. It was made originally so you could pretend to be Aragorn. Then, because dnd, it was grandfathered into everything else. There is no reason for a ranger to be a separate class. It is a warrior with nature skills.
But because dnd affects things so much, ranger has gotten put into many fantasy things. Because they operate on better systems, they have tried to make ranger an actual separate class. The best ways of doing this are to emphasize the ranger as a pet-having class, and/or to emphasize archery alone (no dual wielding) IF AND ONLY IF it's a system where no one else specializes in archery, such as a final fantasy job system thing.

>>52077197
Paladin and cleric should not be different things and neither should barbarian and warrior. So yeah.

>>52078233
God it must suck to be you. You should try playing pathfinder where you don't have to do anything, it's basically a classless system

>>52078014
No, the nature-spirit barbarian was INTRODUCED in players handbook too.
Angery Fighting Man barbarian was introduced during 4e's death throes and it was STILL primal power source, just in addition to martial.

>>52081103
Ranger is a description which does not exist in-setting. It's what you write on your character sheet. Hunter is a job.

>>52085013
>both long lived
>both master craftsmen
>both stubborn and proud

Try again sonny

>>52081103
>Hunters are all about taking down game, whether to feed family or just get a trophy
>Rangers are around to protect smaller frontiers from the wilds

They could do each other's jobs, but that doesn't mean they are the same job

>>52076764

Play a large creature with a bow big enough to shoot javelins/spears, then thunderfuck dragons out of the sky.

>>52084308
I'm other anon but a have a counterpoint for your first counterpoint. ALL rangers of the north have Numenorean heritage. It does not necessarily make them as sharp as Aragorn since he is a king but they all are sharp non the less.

>>52095909
>Ranger is a description which does not exist in-setting.
That's just wrong. People refer to rangers as "rangers" in the Faerun books all the time.
>Hunter is a job.
So is being a ranger, or at least it's a collection of jobs.
Anything that a park ranger does is something that a ranger in a fantasy world would probably do. Hunt wounded, sick, or otherwise dangerous animals, patrol for trespassers, poachers, and forest fires, etc. The need for that kind of work isn't exactly a modern thing.

>>52076764
Forest hermit crossed with a boy scout instructor. You bet your ass he's excited to teach you where to shit in the woods.

>>52076764
our current campaign has a mute ranger who lives off of poaching andmaking charcoal for local villages. has some neat charcoal based unique feats and we let him have a resistance to smoke and fumes because hey, he's got a -3 on CHA from being a fucking mute hobo from the woods even though he's a genuinely nice guy

>not playing the ranger as an optimistic encouraging fitness coach