/epg/ - Eclipse Phase General

>>52051149
There are plenty of situations where seekers don't win

>>52051334

Clearly you weren't using enough.

>>52051608
The marginal benefit of additional seekers is sometimes less than the marginal benefit of additional bullets

>>52052603
Why is there a huge structure around the barrel?

>>52052993
I'm not sure what that's a picture of, I think its a weapon from traveller. That said, if it is an EP seeker, they're powerful coilguns, and would need to have a pretty bulky barrel to house the coils.

>>52053437
There are significant diminishing return with increasing coil diameter. They wouldn't be all that bulky.

>>52054645
So what's chem about it?

>>52054684

Apparently it's some kind of dual stage shit - the round is initially fired by a chemical propellant like a normal bullet then stepped up by a magnetic rail.

>>52051149
Do any of you have personal habs/ships for your characters? If so, what are they called?

>>52051334
There really aren't, there are seekers for every situation, stun, concussion, AP, EMP, HE, you name a target and there's a seeker for it.
To be fair though, I based the statement on my personal experience. We had a couple of combat morphs with Plasma Rifles and all the Armor in the world and everytime they got shreded in combat my Nerdbot steped up to the scene and covered all passageways in overload and explosive AP rounds, at least forcing a stalemate.

All entries of H-rep blog in one file.

https://mega.nz/#F!rQxHRB6b!FVKChtHZYrT8BaqgOcqOwA

>>52056380
>covered all passageways
This is why the seekers won. In more open environments with fewer corners bullets do better.

>>52058217
Seekers have better ranges tho.

>>52058324
Barely, and with pitiful rates of fire

>>52058409
Actually, minimissiles have ranges comparable to sniper rifles and thus far outclassing other kinetic weapons.

>>52058498
Long range for a minimissile: 301-1000 meters
Long range for a rail machinegun: 601-1500 meters

Is it just my timezone or have these threads been really fucking slow lately?

>>52059406

Nah, we had a big uproar for a couple of threads though, only some of which was shit posting and have died back down for now.

>>52053437
It's from Cyberpunk 2020, don't remember which gun it is, but i remember the image.

>>52058217
In an open enviroment the dude with th seekers shoots from behind cover and you can't return fire because your silly slugs and lasers don't go around corners.
Seekers are even more OP in open enviroments.

>>52058555
Keep in mind that railgun rounds can't be smartrounds. That is considerable disadvantage.

>>52062993
>Keep in mind that railgun rounds can't be smartrounds. That is considerable disadvantage.
Can't you just fire a customized missile out of a railgun and call it a smartround?

>>52063556

So a Seeker? A coilgun-assisted gyrojet.

>>52063556
Nope, railguns only fire normal and AP dumb rounds. I imagine that the current and acceleration are pretty brutal on more complicated things.

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I'm not the only one who pictures regular minimissiles as 40mm and the smaller micromissiles as 25mm, right?

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>>52063646
Well yeah 40mm is probably in the upper limit for infantry weapons before they get too cumbersome for the average humanoid soldier

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How effective would a flat Jovian waifu be in combat if I wanted to stay away from tech as much as possible

>>52067125

I mean, with full auto and some specs (or a helmet) to run the smart link (or just stick a laser on it) just shooting people with a gun is pretty good for anything - but you'll never be as good a combat monster unless you're willing to cram yourself with either chrome or drugs. Multiple levels of Speed is where it's at in a firefight.

And if you want to go real low tech you're pretty boned - subdual is great but otherwise melee is for people with multiple limbs or fuckhueg roided morphs.

>>52067309

It should be noted, melee has certain advantages in stealth. There's no defense if surprised, so a wasp knife full of something nasty will go a long way - but there's not really a good coup de grace rule, so you need a follow up. If you don't mind getting assists, somebody in a brawl with eelware or shock gloves can pave the way for other combatants.

>>52068048
If you want to be stealthy you HAVE to jam their mesh inserts, otherwise it doesn't really matter how much sound you make.

>>52068048
Stealth is a lot easier when your morph is chameleon coated and has no radar return though

>>52068065

Well, not everyone is plugged into a tacnet all the time. If you dope them full of Twitch or BTX you can take the fight right out of them, not everybody necessarily wants to autodial their local 911 equivalent either. You can take AIs by surprise as much as people if you're worried about a Muse (but for the sake of Sanity, most mookly NPCs do not need their muses accounted for - because no GM should have to roll twice for each person in a scene)

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>>52068232
>>52068065

Now, with THAT said, jamming is absolutely a very useful thing and should be something somebody in your team routinely engages in. Yet another reason why Firearms are the best.

>>52068283
That may be the most ill-conceived APDS art I've ever seen. You need two contact bands.

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>>52067125
Stacking initiative and speed can be done with drugs, or the psychic virus if you don't mind being an exsurgent in human skin

Stacking armor is important and any character can do it. Just take smart skin, second skin, heavy body armor, a helmet and some armor mods.

Get a high chance to hit and a (specialization) in your favorite weapon. Take ambidextrous and use two pistols, or two SMGs if you can get away with it. Load them with hollow points. Fire two bursts with each for four bursts per speed phase, or one full auto burst with each for two full auto bursts per speed phase. Remember to use your smartlink and quick action to aim for a free +20 to hit with every shot. A better chance to hit means you can spend the bonus dice from burst fire on damage instead of accuracy.

Seekers aren't competitive with kinetic weapons for raw damage output, UNLESS you're willing to cart around the full size ones. They do have some great utility options.

Take lots of moxie. Know how to use it.

>>52068448
Actually wait no, >>52067309 has it right. Replace the smartlink with the laser sight.

Melee is no good because it's inferior to guns on too many levels. It does less damage, gets fewer attacks per turn, gets fewer positive modifiers to hit and is twice as easy to dodge. Any one of those could be compensated for and routed around, but together they mean that even if you don't want to make a min/maxed character you'll still be disappointed.

Even if you have to go somewhere with restrictive weapon laws you're still better off not trusting melee weapons. Better to get caught with illegal firearms than to get shot to pieces by law enforcement because they had you massively outgunned.

The exception is like >>52068048 said, shock weapons are totally broken against biomorphs (although useless against synths).

>>52068232
So long as they have working mesh inserts, they, or their muse, will call someone fast. Anyone worth killing has friends.

You can try jamming, but anyone smart has an AI watching for that, and it's pretty hard to hide a screaming radio.

The best way to stealth kill someone is to Prisoner Hood them, which is melee only. The second best way is to deal enough damage with a single blow that the mesh inserts aren't working, but that's hard to do quietly.

>Load them with hollow points.

Biters are better, though a little more expensive. I guess they're smart matter though.

>Seekers aren't competitive with kinetic weapons for raw damage output
They are at long range and against clustered targets. The SMG trick sucks ass beyond several dozen meters. That's good enough for many situations, but not all.

>>52068509
Swarmanoids are decent melee characters. They deal pretty good damage, and are resisted by half fray like firearms. They still have a worse action economy and it's hard to upgrade them with speed. That's not very relevant for a a Jovian, but being a swarm of robo-wasps which inject liquid thermite is pretty dangerous.

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>>52068816
>Swarmanoids

>>52067125
Buy a used cargo/passenger spaceship with fusion drive and take a lot of Hardware skills. Buy some shitty drones and good tools. Cut away all the unneeded blocks - cargo holds, passenger cabins, etc. Remake them into laser cannons, gauss cannons and missile launchers. Well, and missiles.

Fuel for missiles can be made out of metallic hydrogen. Its containers scale pretty good.

Kill everyone who bitches about your combat abilities.

Help I still can't fathom post-scarcity and it's driving me to a midlife crisis.

>>52072689

It's not literally post-scarcity.

>>52067125
Very effective. You just shoot her in her legs when the TITAN death machine is chasing you guys, so you get some extra distance to put between you and that horrid thing as it begins to dismantle your Jovian meatshield.

She's a filthy catholic mexicunt anyway, she doesn't count as real people.

>>52073654
Why do you have to shoot her? You can run twice as fast anyway

>>52073667
As long as she keeps running along, the TITAN death machine will move too.

If I stop her from moving, the TITAN death machine will stop moving in order to dismantle her.

>>52073620
That doesn't help much.

>>52073683
Neither does your vague and unspecific plea for help. What exactly is your problem with it?

>>52073681
Yeah but you could just let the death machine stop her

>>52073714
I can't really understand how ideas are worth more than physical items, and even then they're only worth more intangibly. I honestly don't know how society functions without a pricetag on everything.

>>52073758
Ideas are not worth more than material things. Detailed implementation of an idea, with numbers put on all the stages and details, that can be used by any retard capable to read - this thing costs more than raw materials in most places.

Because if worst comes to worst you always can move to Oort cloud and after a couple of years get your new hab done by drones and nannies. Well unless someone will shoot you there. Shit happens.

>>52073758
The price of a product can be broken down, roughly, into four constituents: materials, design, manufacturing, and transportation.

There are costs involved in every step of bringing a product to existence. Some of these have to do with the maintenance of equipment and such, but a substantial portion of it is just compensating the people involved in the steps. In the case of an iPhone, you've got the Congolese miners procuring the metals for the electronics, the Indian code monkeys writing the OS, the Chinese kids who put the thing together, and the fifteen different people in the transportation business who get them from a fatctory in Beijing to an Apple Store in Oregon. They'd all like to get paid. There's also a little that gets added on top of the actual expenses at every step because somebody is trying to turn a profit; that's capitalism.

Now fast forward to the 22nd century. Everything is automated. That iEcto in your hand was made in a fabricator in your habitat, out of materials mined by drones. The material and manufacturing expenses are negligible, and there are no transportation costs because the item was made on-site. The only thing of real value attached to it is immaterial: somebody came up with the concept, wrote the code, and compiled the instructions for the fabber to make it.

That's how ideas are worth more than physical items.

You may, if you're not a grubby innersys corp shill committed to preserving your rapidly antiquating resource allocation system at all costs, come to the conclusion that there's really no point in doing commerce with dimes and bottlecaps where resources and manufacturing is concerned, and instead make the maintenance of the means of production and resource procurement a community responsibility. And, taking it further, you may decide to stop charging people for the work you put in your code or dragon dildo blueprint since you don't need to receive compensation anymore to survive.

>>52073654
Another sparkling example of anarchist tactics, everyone

>>52074674

This is probably the clearest and most concise explanation for the New Economy I've ever read.

>>52073758
>I honestly don't know how society functions without a pricetag on everything.
That's just it. It's not a society as you know it. In the world you know nations trade finished goods with each other. In EP, there's extremely little labor exchange between habitats unless they're exceptionally near each other, and what labor is exchanged is mostly knowledge work. If you want to find a price tag that applies across the solar system, look at raw resource delivery, iceteroids and such. Even then though, there's probably more than one way of paying.

Why is this the case? Many will say it's post-scarcity. That's not it though. Scarcity still exists, even if it is greatly reduced in many categories. The problem is shipping. Shipping is really expensive. Think age of sail trade between India and Britain, except a huge part of humanity is in nations of a few hundred to a few thousand people as isolated from everyone else as Britain was from India. This situation would not even be possible without the enabling industrial technologies that allow factories to be scaled down to the size of a large nightstand.

Imagine you're living in a tin can habitat outside the dominion of a major power. You, your family, and a few other families you're friendly with have your own can. The can has a CM, a self-contained life support system, and either a big solar array or a fusion power generator. Every family in the can has a maker. You have enough water, biomatter, and industrial materials to make what you need. Between the dozen or so people aboard and the expert systems available to them, you have the skills to maintain your equipment and produce new tools. What's to stop you from disconnecting your can and floating off into space? Not much. Eventually you may need new deuterium or advice from some neighbors, but the primary things keeping you here are the social structure of community in the greater habitat and the need for mutual defense. (continued)

>>52074933
(continued)
These dozen or so people are, for economic and industrial purposes, their own sovereign nation, in many ways less dependent on the outside world than modern nations.

What are these people interested in trading then? Certainly there is some trade of raw material, but most trade (using the term trade loosely here, as software piracy is quite common) is of entertainment (both digital and interpersonal) and technological ideas and designs which work better or more efficiently. If you scale up a bit then sociological ideas may also become a major trade item. When trading with other independent communities, the needs of those involved are the primary driver of pricing.

Now of course not everyone lives in such small communities. It could be a hundred interconnected people, or a thousand, or millions. In the larger groups you'll see more standardized internal pricing models for whatever form of economy they practice.

Not everyone lives in independent communities either. In communities controlled by outside powers there may be enforcement of certain kinds of pricing.

Please note that I am not specifically addressing the new economy here. For now I will just say that there is pricing of a sort within reputation networks, even when people are frequently getting the results of labor for free.

>>52074933
>>52074950
tl;dr, it's like a medieval village in space.

>>52075025
Kinda, but medieval villages typically couldn't fabricate specialized tools, high quality clothing, or anything else like that. One of the huge differences is that potential quality of life doesn't scale with community size the way it used to.

>>52061802
>heterosexual reproduction
>submarine

>>52075558
I'm reasonably convinced that someone, somewhere would indeed fuck a submarine if it was anatomically/structurally possible.

>>52076399

I'm pretty sure that could be said of anything.

Through dick, unity.

>>52075558
Nanomachines, son.

Should I post more shitty space guns, or do we want to try and talk about something else?

>>52051149
>shit phase

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>>52084363

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>>52085324

Alright, I'll try to inject some actual discussion here - even on the part of seekers. Seeing something on the forums, I'm now interested in concepts of a "stealthed" seeker, and how one might pull that off. Could you significantly reduce the range by arming them with cold gas propellants? Would it be better to make them have poor radar profiles and be harder to sense coming, fuck vision and sound? could you make them quiet? People with more engineering and materials knowledge than me might be able to answer.

Hell, could you turn it into a smart ammo type, a "stealthed" round which is hard to detect on sensors in flight?

>>52086874
Sounds retarded

>>52082533
We're posting guns now. Next thread is for Jovians and the one after that is for debating spaceship crews.

>>52086874
Wouldn't it be smarter to set up a "trap" with regular seekers and put a (land)mine in the only way out?

>>52087877
>Next thread is for Jovians
Jovians don't deserve their own thread

>>52088780
Jovians can make their own /epg/ over on Pedrochan.

>>52086874
I don't think cold gas propellants would actually be stealthy in this case. They'd still make a lot of noise as the gas released.

The best way to make a stealth seeker would probably to tune the coil to fire aerodynamic subsonic grenades. Basically a very quiet grenade launcher.

I don't think beating radar is all that important for a projectile that small.

>>52086874
You could replace the ramjet with a propeller to reduce the heat signature, but at that point it's not really a seeker anymore.

Alright, so here's another question for the thread about seekers. So obviously, seekers can do all the detonation methods as a grenade; airburst, remote, impact and timer. And with Smart Ammo, you can make them homing based on a smartlink picture, laser guided or proximity detonating.

But, do you think mechanically there's enough distinction for traditional guidance mechanisms in Seekers, such as Radar, Infrared or ARM? Is that too granular and nitpicky, or does it work with Seekers getting an added smart ammo effect? Should more advanced guidance be restricted to standard missiles or larger (the inevitable vehicle-based missiles we may see in space combat)?

>>52092552
Don't forget that seekers come with a smart ammo option, so they're all homing or laser guided, or whatever.

A radar guided seeker would be a little tricky. I'm not sure if a good enough radar transceiver can be fit in a mini- or micro- missile. Those things must already be very packed. A semi-active radar homing seeker would be easy, but would basically use the same rules as a laser guided seeker, save for the wavelength of the laser. Could be useful if you want a laser guided weapon which isn't detected by standard Enhanced Vision.

Infrared seeking is basically the same as a smartlinked homing seeker, except that it looks in a different wavelength, which means what camo works against it changes. It'd see right through an active camo coating, but just couldn't spot a cold-blooded morph well at all. Considering how much heat a transhuman with a full load of gear is probably putting out it should work well.

An ARM is kind of niche, but is a good way to punish active radar, T ray emitters, or X ray vision and such. There's a lot of powerful sensors which are active. Probably not as useful at an infantry scale, as you're probably going to need to point the missile at the target anyway.

>>52093731

I mean, Smart Ammo is pretty sophisticated, a homing round literally is able know what it's fired at via smartlink and direct itself to that target mid-flight - Proxy and Zero are similar just what they do with the smartlink picture is different. And this can fit in something the size of a bullet - so if "Radar" was it's own smart ammo type it could probably fit though it's range could be limited by the sensor range of the seeker as a gear item (which I'd have to double check on the chart, but mesh insert sized radios have like 500 meters of range in the open).

>>52094045
I don't think a mesh insert radio is a good measure for the radar used in a radar seeker, it generally needs to be a stronger signal.

That said, it would probably work, because I'm stupid and didn't think about how long the signal would need to be sustained. Even tiny EP batteries should be able to give enough juice to run it for the half second it spends in flight.

>>52094423

Yeah, I was mostly using it as like, a point of comparison. IIRC Mesh Inserts are "micro" gear, which is just above, y'know, nanotech radios and it still has a decent range, the seeker missile itself might be a step or two larger - I just haven't checked the scale. Sensor and Comms range is roughly the same for gear based on that table.

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>>52095287

Reminds me of this.

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I'm running low on spaceguns to post - not enough people are yelling about how retarded they are.

>>52098160

>one barrel, four triggers
>three barrels, one trigger

EVERY TIME.

>>52098384
Lizzen, buddo, theze gunzz are fer sho', not fer shootn'.

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>>52100775

I realized these two come close to rhyming.

>>52100775
>>52101171

I wonder if someone should overlay them.

Murder Frisbee Musso-Reapy

Can AGI transform itself to ASI? If yes, what it need to do?
I'm making concept for Singularity seeker AGI, who wants to become new TITAN.

>>52103743
First you'll probably want a couple of quantum servers and all the infrastructure needed to support them. Better load them up on a big spaceship and run though - cause there will be a lot of people gunning for your head.

>>52103743
There are safeguards built against that in modern AGI, but anybody reasonably determined can get around them. That's one of the reasons AGI are distrusted in many parts of the system.

What you need is a hell of a lot of hardware. Stacking a lot of iron in one place is tricky, though, because people tend to be extremely leery of large computational centres for the exact reason that they can be used to host ASI.

Your best bet for housing big iron would probably be the outer solar system, or an exoplanet nobody knows of. Or you could go the cloud route and distribute your hardware if you don't mind a bit of latency, but you'd have to be very good at covering your tracks even then.

>>52105829
>>52105951
I understand that my character will need ultra-super-mega-server, but after it will be built/acquired, what should character do? Just upload itself to the server and wait?

>>52106200
No. You need to self-modify into a self-improving AI that will expand to fit the container, which is a huge engineering project requiring a lot of skills and knowledge that are not easily obtained.

>>52106328
So I have to find other singularity seekers and collaborate with them?

>>52106525
That's probably the easiest way, though some of them may want to fuck you over so they have less competition.

>>52106200
I would imagine that the chances are good your character will not become an ASI during the course of an Eclipse Phase campaign. This is the sort of shit you'd probably want to discuss with your GM.

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What are some ways a Jovian would come to slowly accept transhumanity and their tech? Or at least hate them a little bit less?

Hard mode: No doing so out of necessity

>>52107261
Going on a grand adventure with a band of plucky anarchists and realizing that they aren't all that different from him, of course.

BTW, I was wrong earlier. Mesh Inserts are "Mini" so their urban radio range is 1 km. Sensor/comms range on seekers is probably similar, then.

>>52107261
Subtle long term brain-washing.

>>52107261
Brains.
A deeper look into the Jovian society beneath the surface.
A proper taste of the true terror of the solar system.

>>52107261
That depends how you want to flavour it. It is a good point for character development. But it is also heavily relies on the background of said character.

For example spec-ops joves don't have that many problems with using normally prohibited technologies but many of them may have pretty esoteric outlooks on how and why it is acceptable. Up to the point that some of them consider themselves dead in a certain sense or maybe as new people with their "parents" being long dead.

On the other hand some run of the mill religious citizen may have not that many contacts with prohibited tech until some kind of epic shitstorm throws him in the middle of it all. Maybe his friends or relatives dead, mortally wounded or become ill and the only way to save them is to use the tech that is normally restricted by pretty heavily regulated licenses. And so on.

>>52107261
Also without necessity probably means that Jovian at hand is probably a diplomat or some other type that travels beyond Republic borders. In such a case he may simply slowly, over time, build tolerance to all the transhuman fuckery. There is assholes and good people everywhere. Unless we are talking exhumans - these are almost 100% assholes.

>>52110597

Exhumans are like Vegans. If they don't say anything, nobody gives a shit. But they can't seem to keep their damn mouths shut about how exhuman they are.

>>52110628
You know, the mental image of Jovians and autonomists teaming up, no matter how briefly and filled with mutual contempt it might be, against exhuman monstrosities.

I was planning a similar scenario for Firewall PCs. Wasn't sure on the specifics, but I wanted a joint operation between something like a Titanian merchant marine crew and Jovian Navy personnel against either a TITAN cult, exhumans, or some other threat.

I dunno, for all the discussions about "anarkiddies" and "Christ fags" I like the idea of teamwork against a greater foe to be a much more interesting discussion. That's why I really liked Gatecrashing's plot hooks of a potential Firewall-Oversight alliance against Ozma, at least briefly.

>>52111881
>25mm
>Anti-tank
HAHAHAHA OH FUCK THAT'S GOOD HAHAHAHA

>>52117116

Actually, it looks like the round says 20x83.6mm

>>52117163
Oh god, that's even worse. 120mm APFSDSDU has trouble penetrating the front armour of modern tanks; nevermind a weedy 20mm on future tanks.

>>52117227

Well, I'm pretty sure the point is to not try and penetrate the frontal armor but use kraut space magic to hit them in a weak point or something.

Don't actually read those descriptions though, they're incredibly bullshit. It's actually technically a chemrail like earlier in the thread - except is sounds like the magnetic launch is INSIDE the initial 20mm "sabot". Never mind last I checked DU is not a ferromagnetic material

Speaking of AT, while I don't know what the fuck an MBT would look like in EP's rules, but even with some of the serious shit in like, AUGC given how tough vehicles are I would not want to fuck with one with anything which could be considered "man-portable.

>>52117533
I'd expect an EP MBT to be really short, as there won't be a human shaped crew. I'd probably use a railgun as a primary weapon as they're hard to intercept, have a number of seekers for use against targets which don't have active defenses, and a shitload of active defenses itself. (which could double as anti-personnel weapons). Potentially a plasma or particle beam, but the range could be a problem there.

It'd probably have some pretty serious stealth features to extend serviceability vs air power, (the seekers could also work as SAMs) and it'd likely be very fast.

Basically an invisible Bolo downsized to light tank size.

So yeah, fuck fighting one as infantry, it'd poke your eyes out at 200 km/h.

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>>52117533
>>52117780
>MBTs
>in a primarily urban setting

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>>52117814

We're 10 years post a catastrophic war on Earth, and there's a couple of large surface based exclusion zones left - and at least one moon with some hinterlands to cover. They'd definitely exist - even if just in mothballs in some of the major factions back pockets for T-Day.

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>>52117814
A mobile heavy weapons platform with low profile is definitely useful in urban combat. It'd probably be an overgrown Reaper more than a tank though. There's also the potential for combat in open spaces around the Martian or Lunar TQZs, or exoplanet fighting.

>>52117780
Large scale combat can potentially be pretty interesting. Thanks to MH rockets man portable anti-satellite weapons are a thing. Sure, they'll likely get destroyed by defenses, but those will need to exist, because the battlespace goes all the way up to high orbit or beyond. Controlling the heights matters because orbital snipers can wipe out formations, and satnet intelligence is super useful.

That means that ground forces need some kind of integrated antiorbital weaponry, if only to try to distract forces in orbit, or provide a little fire support for orbital forces. I'm assuming that with EP optics a laser or particle beam which can at least poke the eyes of a ship in orbit can be vehicle mounted. Missiles as well, but I think they'd get shot down mostly.

On the ground everything needs to be pretty sneaky, because if you aren't it's going to start raining cruise missiles and seekers. Shooting them down should be pretty easy, and counterbattery is possible, but not being seen is a big part of the survivability onion.

That means vehicles need to be pretty hard to track, and kick up little dust. That means small vehicles with weird looking smart matter mobility systems. Maybe kind of millipede or slug like. These can be quickly field refitted to allow for sprints when needed.

EP tech also means that tanks can actually live off the land, assuming they run on fusion, mining the ground for spare feedstock (or "eating" enemy tanks), while collecting water for reactor fuel are options.

Anyway, I don't really care for looking at combat between superpowers. Orbital Macross Missile Massacres aren't actually that fun to play through.

This is probably kind BSed.

>>52117967
I think this leads to some fun stuff in actual games though. I imagine there's a shitload of autonomous military tech left on earth from the Fall, and not all of it is TITAN controlled.

Packs of feral tanks winding their way across trackless wilderness and skirmishing with other machine life for metals or similar seems cool, and a nightmare for a most reclaimer teams. Feral warmachines in general seem like interesting earth encounters. I could see weird tribal cultures emerging from their emergent intelligences, kind of like the Ny'Kiin'ine (fuck that word) or other "species" created to wage wars.

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>>52117967

>>52117967

BTW, I'm not sure seekers raining from the sky is necessarily a huge issue. Larger sized missile batteries and stuff maybe, but at least as represented by the rules, the only way to indirect fire seekers is with Homing rounds (which is Via Smartlink, so optical) or laser guidance. Now, if you're talking like, a satellite full of missile with a bloody great camera (though just sticking some tungsten rods on it and letting gravity do the work is probably easier) they could probably do some stuff, but if you can laser spoof or just use a lens spotter to pop any asshole who points anything with an eye at you it'll be hard to do anything but range in and hope.

>>52117967
I would probably extend the survivability onion out to the operational level, but that's a good start.

>>52117814
MBTs are actually a huge part of modern urban combat. They provide heavy support in a much more protected and reactive package than you can get from artillery.

Tanks have needed upgrade packages to provide armor protection to the top, sides, and rear in this role, and they are still very reliant on infantry for protection from antitank weapons in close quarters, but I dare you to find a soldier who wouldn't prefer walking around downtown Fallujah behind a tank.

Development active countermeasures promise to make tanks perform better in this urban infantry support role in the future.

>>52118297

On the plus side, you now do really have a use for smoke grenades or seekers in your campaign now - because it'll be real hard to get an optical or laser lock through a smokescreen. Could even defeat IR if it's heated.

>>52118297
I was thinking something like a cruise missile which launches (and potentially directs) a swarm of warheads at short range. Shooting it down would probably be easy, but saturating a formation should be cheap enough to be worth it. I had been thinking of ground or air launched weapons using orbital targeting data initially, but orbital weapons would also work. Long rods might not be ideal, as a fast armored formation could probably dodge them, but if they disgorge their own seeker warheads when close they'd work fine.

I am thinking these would be larger independently targeting missiles, which seems similar to Homing ammo. That said, those would be vulnerable to >>52118467, though hyperspectral and ghost imager sensors could counter them.

Between lasers and other intercepting weapons, smokescreens, decoys, and natural stealth armor could be quite resistant to massed missile fire, especially if the enemy is denied full tactical awareness and networking. It's just that missiles are cheap, so such a volume could be launched that defending against it might not be possible. That said, sacrificing an automated and backed up armored unit to allow others to run the launchers down or expose them to air attack and counterbattery is (probably) worth it. It really depends on operational goals and a bunch of specifics I think.

This is why I don't want to dwell on this too much, it seems really complicated and probably beyond my knowledge to really theorize through. IIRC a lot of pre-fall warfare was more low intensity proxy stuff than Cybertanks running across the Fulda Gap, so lower intensity stuff is probably much more common.

That said, this is the kind of war the TITANs were made to win, so countries were definitely thinking about it, and the TITANs practiced it. An EP-tech wargame could potentially be pretty neat.

>>52118380
Definitely

>>52118467
One of the reasons for using phosphorus in smoke bombs is that the smoke is opaque to infrared.

How long would you expect it to take for a cutesy mascot-type character to go insane or bitter in this setting?

>>52121994
With regular exposure to exsurgent shit? Not long. A lot of that is reversible with psychosurgery though.

>>52122159
Pschosurgery is the answer to a lot of things, huh?

>>52121994
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCVNwGdBHFk

>>52122752
I mean, it is a technology that's 100% foolproof. If you fuck up on it SOMEHOW, just do therapy with your muse until all of your SV and traumas is removed. I don't see why transhumans haven't evolved past mental illnesses by now?!?!

/s

>>52110932
Well I made a background for the game - a clusterfuck in Jupiter Trojans when PC tried to shut down some autonomist habs through the use of "mercenary" space ships. Someone stole a lot of shit from PC and they tried to make and example of those people.

Jovians actually sent their patrol that was close by to help. As a result what was supposed to be a fight of highly mobile ships vs mostly stationary defenses and some hodgepodge space boats transformed into whole lot of other things when Jovian cruiser and five frigates knocked.

Jovians hate both PC and autonomists but they prefer to see corpies where they are - on Mars.

>>52118433
Problem is in EP in most case if tanks came out it in most cases will mean a major conflict. And that in turn means that spaceships are coming out.

What are you going to do with a tank against a sapceship that is shooting at you with tungsten rods and lasers from high orbit?

Their niche kind of becomes pretty slim. Mostly probably some antiterror operations or similar shit when you have a clear advantage, don't care about stealth or deniability and for some reason care about your target not being turned into a piece of molten slug.

>>52123613
>What are you going to do with a tank against a sapceship that is shooting at you with tungsten rods and lasers from high orbit?
Same thing you do against artillery. Just keep moving.

>>52123613
>What are you going to do with a tank against a sapceship that is shooting at you with tungsten rods and lasers from high orbit?
At that point that's like asking "What is anything on the ground going to do against tactical nuclear weapons?"

The answer is dispersion, stealth, and constant movement.

>>52124618
Well that's the point I was trying to make. The role of tanks (or any other heavy units) on the battlefield will change significantly. Especially considering that a good chunk of fighting will be done inside the hab.

If you really want to suppress opposition while leaving the place more or less intact.

>>52123613

It's also possible given there are a few significant planetary bodies you might have space superiority and not want to rearrange the local geography to accomplish your mission, but still want to pack a decent punch on the ground. There's a lot of middle ground in applying force from which can range from "get me a squad of tanks" to "get me a thermobaric orbital strike". Thanks to EP tech you don't have to land a physical boot anywhere to invade somebody.

>>52124754
I think it would also be a matter of escalation. No one is going to use orbital artillery such as tungsten rods without great consideration, as their impact yield is similar to that of a tactical nuclear weapon. That would also open up the other side to feel it just to use tungsten rods and perhaps nuclear weapons in strategic campaigns against the the force which began the escalation of arms, and obviously, against ground forces.

War between two modernized forces in EP has to be very calculated, or very limited, to avoid apocalyptic scenarios due to the inherent power of the technology behind the armies.

>>52117533
>Ramka-99 with hollow point ammunition

>>52124806
You actually do need to set the boot. So to speak. Unless you want your campaign to last for years.

Because if you don't win the space battle around the place you want to grab and start dropping fabbers and ready machines from bulk freighters you are going to have a disadvantage in ground forces. Because defenders will have their fortifications, plus fabbers, plus defense forces.

And while you will fab your forces in place they will fab their own too. There is no fast way to win such a conflict without a first wave influx of forces for the overwhelming strike or infiltration. And frankly if there was a choice I would have preferred to rely on the first option even if it eats more resources. There is too many 'ifs' and 'buts' with infiltration.

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>>52121994
It depends how it goes; if you make a backup while you're still a happy-go-lucky cute mascot, and every mission you go on ends so catastrophically that your cortical stack isn't recoverable (or is recovered but kept as evidence for the Horrific Crimes You Probably Committed In The Course Of Your So-Called Duties), you could probably keep coming back as the cheery mascot, until they start worrying about why they're always reinstantiated from an old backup.

Then, hey, psychosurgery.

>>52125732
Has anyone here ever managed to run the Gate War campaign? All the way to the fuckhuge battle at the end?

It's something I've wanted to do for some time, but unfortunately organizing a longer EP campaign in my gaming circle is basically impossible. Interested in hearing if anyone's done it.

>>52051149
Post porn

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>>52117814
What about exoplanet fighting? The Rortians know how valuable heavy armor is there.

The British Monarchy in exile on Titan.

Discuss.

It was Shadowdragon's idea

>>52132789
They're canonically dead

Fuck off back to >>>/The Eye/

>>52132789
You've already got the Danish, Swedish and Norwegian royal families there.

>>52123613
Well lasers won't work from high orbit, and tanks stand a much better chance of intercepting tungsten rods than infantry do. Also, your own ships could hold them off. Plus, there are stealth options, and many enclosed areas big enough for tankettes.

>>52124825
This isn't true. Crowbar sized orbital tungsten rods have been as antitank weapons specifically for their low collateral damage potential compared to large bombs.

>>52135876
>Well lasers won't work from high orbit
Even Titanian atmosphere won't shield completely against something that large ships can mount. And many other habs and planets either don't have an atmosphere or it is much less dense.

>and tanks stand a much better chance of intercepting tungsten rods than infantry do.
No they don't. You need to intercept tungsten rods really high up. Because they have a lot of kinetic energy and unlike normal missiles in space they don't care if you damage them a little. You'll need to burn a sizeable chunk of a tungsten rod to move it off course far enough. And far enough in this case means no less than a hundred kilometres probably. Depending on the speed with which they were launched.

I'll be GMing a session in a few, give me some interesting Fall relics/XPs that could be found on board of an abandoned hyperelite hab in Earth orbit.

>>52136312
>And far enough in this case means no less than a hundred kilometres probably.
A lot less than that, a tungsten telephone pole at mach 10 only has about 11 tons of TNT worth of yield. Knocking it off course by a half mile should be more than enough for safety, and armor could cut that a lot closer.

They do also care about smaller damage, as if they have aerodynamic problems they can get snapped into pieces while falling, and those will lose more speed and potentially burn up. That's still a lot more resilient than an explosive of course.

>>52138656
Ugh, sorry I typed some sort of garbage there. I meant that you need to hit it at least a hundred km up in the skies due to the fact that they are moving at a speed of a couple km/s at the very least.

Mach 10 is also really slow for space. A spaceship doing a run by can easily drop them at 30+ km/s if it doesn't care about staying around the target for long.

>>52138362
Either the barrel doesn't line up with where it should, or that front angle is really weird.

>>52138925
Oh yeah that makes way more sense. I picked mach ten because it was the number the air force used when they thought about making one.

They could definitely go faster, but that's no longer really a reactive weapon- it'll be seen coming for hours at least before the attack can be launched.

>>52142113
I really like the look of that one, it's so dynamic.

>>52063607
Reminder that the devs are hacks for not allowing hollow-point railgun rounds.

>>52144477

I think we should complain more the devs allowed HP as is at all.

>>52058217
Unless you're in some serious armor and using thermobarics, passageways with lots of turns make seekers shit in comparison to conventional weapons. Heck, you can bounce a grenade. Wait a sec. I remember a modification to make grenades sticky or magnetic, but was there one to make them bouncy?

>>52068283
While yes, shotguns are god-tier when it comes to cartridge types and some of the cartridge types for normal weapons in the game are ridiculous, the frag-12 is shit. There isn't enough explosive for it to be effective.

>>52145909

No, no bouncy ball grenades - you can probably just use normal physics for that and set them via remote or timer rather than impact or whatever.

>>52145741
16 SMGs with hollow-points using an octomorph, an ego with maximized COO, smart manipulators, and a flying vest.

>>52146229
But it would be so much fun in microgravity.

>>52146229

Ah yes, the "the GM stares at you before taking your character sheet and slowly tearing it in half all while maintaining eye contact, so you may see the full breadth of his ire" character.

>>52146249
meant for
>>52146199


>>52146258
That's the normal reaction to most of the character concepts that /epg/ has come up with. Then again, that's also the normal reaction to Eclipse Phase.

>>52146229
Just stand 300 meters away lmao

>>52146317
That's usually no an option in microgravity.

>>52146249

Well, I mean, I'm pretty sure in microgravity any non-stick grenades will still go all over the place if you throw them, assuming they're moderately aerodynamic - I don't think the air or many interior surfaces will bleed that much of the force of a grenade out relative to how much oomph a good morph can put into it. And hey, Throwing Weapons is an attack roll, you should totally be able to call a shot to hit a guy around a corner.

>>52146301

>That's the normal reaction to most of the character concepts that /epg/ has come up with. Then again, that's also the normal reaction to Eclipse Phase.

Honestly, I hate more "posters" than character concepts I meet in /epg/.

>>52146386
Hate is a bit strong. Are you sure that you aren't more comfortable on a certain transhumanist cock-sucking forum?

>>52136312
>Even Titanian atmosphere won't shield completely against something that large ships can mount.
It totally will. A decent atmosphere dramatically reduces long distance focal capabilities.

>>52136312
>You'll need to burn a sizeable chunk of a tungsten rod to move it off course far enough. And far enough in this case means no less than a hundred kilometres probably. Depending on the speed with which they were launched.
For crowbar-sized penetrators? Citation needed.

>>52144477
??? Railgun hollowpoints are fine

>>52147649
The rules state that railguns can only use regular and AP ammo.

>>52147448

I put "posters" in quotes as a stand-in abbreviation for joveposters, minervaposters... etc. The people who are basically roleplaying IRL rather than any actual actionaly player character concepts they bring. I would like them to move on to some other nepalese sand drawing website and suck dicks there because they'd really be in much more agreeable company than your normative few dozen /epg/ posters.

>>52147649

Nope, Regular and AP type only, all other types no.

>>52147667
I could swear they didn't in the past. Maybe I'm think of an old edition?

>>52147745
Nope. It's always been this way.

>>52147745
first edition had many errors.

>>52117859
Holy shit, the thing on the right is the turret and mine feelers of an M1A1 Armoured Breaching Vehicle.

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>>52152090

>>52150858

Man, I hate Fuze.

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I've found blog that also contains different interesting EP-related content. https://renegadeoctopus.wordpress.com/tag/eclipse-phase/
I copied all entries in docx and pdf and will keep this files updated. https://mega.nz/#F!bNAiwLIa!2CeHoUcquG-u1hzDPRqW3Q

Is the only good robot a scrapped robot?

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>>52155457
This is pretty bad

>Eclipse Phase: Before the Fall

Pic very related

>>52161199
I know english not well enough to understand your humour, sorry.

>>52163606
There's no humor, I'm saying that the first entry in the PDF you posted was bad enough that I stopped reading right there

>>52163781
>https://renegadeoctopus.wordpress.com/tag/eclipse-phase/
A couple of them look useable.
Not great, but worth dipping into every now and then for an interlude session.

Do you think they celebrate Pi day in the transhuman future, possibly with Pie? Or has the destruction of the US and veritable scattering of it's culture killed the humble pie?

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Make Venus Great Again

>>52177880
The bigger problem is ... many habitats have vastly different calendars. A Venusian year's length is different from a Martian year. Which complicates celebrating Pi Day, because it'll be hard to agree on a common date.

Pie, on the other hand, will not be lost or forgotten until transhumanity ceases to eat.

>>52177993

Well, I presume everybody still has a 3/14 pattern at some point. It'd be like celebrating the "New Year".

The Arian calendar is supposed to be pretty routine and well used, but I suspect a lot of people, especially in habs with long orbits would use the Earth Standard year because they're familiar with it and like, plutonian years doesn't have a lot of use to the average person.

I feel like we've had the calendar discussion before, have we done this before?

>>52178076
Haven't been in EPG before. I'm just getting started with EP, so if you had this discussion before, it has been with someone else.

>>52178179

Nah, I was actually thinking of an H-Rep entry. It was based on an old thread discussion but not a very big one.

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>>52067125
It depends. Keep in mind that augmentations that improve speed are fine with the Jovians and Rortians, so you'll have reflexes as quick as any AGI or transhuman, and if you get an exosuit that should make up for the lack of natural armor and strength.

>>52067125

You should try to see jovians as something like the soviets(to the extents that a hyperfuturistic setting lets you).

Big, simple and in quantities.

So, there are some safe modifications that don't require that much high technology; reinforcing your bones(actually needed if you live a lot in zero-g)or light bioweave, and taking into account how cheap and usefull medichines are only paranoia of nantech should made your character reject them.

The rest of the implants can be substituted through external tools(increased hearing; microphones, better vision; specks, eelware; eelware gloves...) and should be on at all times.

Then substitute other implants through what other thought would be the main thing in the war of the future; combat drugs, your soldiers might not have neurachem or pain tolerance but for a few minutes or hours they can get something a bit better than that, and taking into account how OP speed is(if you think about speed increases the ROF of all weapons) you need a soldier that even though is a jovian has a pragtical understanding of drugs.

Use drones in teleoperation, never in AI mode.

Try to be as less dependent on comunications as posible, a tactnet and smartlink are good but if your waifu carries a tons of EMPs you would be eliminating one advantage the enemy might depend, while your natural state is lacking such advantage.

Compensate the lack of precision and speed with firepower, even in EP trying to scape a frag grenade is not an easy task so always have a seeker launcher at hand and several grenades around, and have them in quantity rather than quality, you should try to overwhelm the enemy first and then destroy it.

I usually see jovian soldiers compensating their lack of tech through the use of combat armor with shock troops. Combat armor in EP doesn't take agility and lets you add a lot of tools at the same time without requiring much tech, so its very fittiing for a jovian(expensive, but thats up to your GM)

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>when you just had to go for that retro charm

Why would you want to be run on a Processor Locus habitat like Glitch, where everything about your existence is contingent on the sys op running its servers, when it would be wiser to just live with other infomorphs on a conventional habitat where everyone has their own private server? I'm only talking about Egos who have this option, not infugees who are screwed over by hyper corp server farms.

What to do /tg?

I have this game set in "clusterfuck" extrasolar colony made up of anarchists, extropians, argonauts, ultimates and an entire batallion of exjovians and the exjovians are led by Chaplain Tobias.

The thing is, that I created him as a flawed character, he is never around mentioning god that much and he is not seen doing religious rites either and the backstory he tolds you is too embelished with emotional things. I created him this way so players would ask at some point "If he is a chaplain why he isn't doing chaplain things or expresing as such?","Why his backstory looks so artificial?"

2 years later and several subplots(and getting a literal hint that he is not a chaplain), the players haven't figured the idea of simply asking these questions and investigate.

I don't know how to make them take the initiative in the subject and I want something more subtle than their muses saying "welp, you should look into this and that" which is like revealing the plot because I want, and what I want is them taking iniciative in the matter.

>>52188343
Is the colony actually called Clusterfuck?

>>52188724

No... but it gets close

>>52177936
Venus was never great.

>>52189931
That's only because of venusian exsurgents. But if we build the wall...

>>52188343
Don't. Never push players they will hate you for it. In many cases trying to push them leads to much bigger problems than you initially had.

If there is something in the backstory of Tobias that can fuck them over let it happen organically. If there is nothing like this just let it sit there. You'll use it at another time.

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>>52195833
>toward emeny

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Has anyone got that feeling that the setting has run its course?
By this point it is obvious that developers haven't thought it out, and the supposed one of the main villains in the setting, Jovians, are the good guys, while most other factions are rather bland, idiotic or boring.
Also it makes no sense to not be bio-conservative in light of the Fall.
Furthermore what can be added to the setting ?
The authors said there will be no revelations as to what Ozma is or TITANS.
I think EP is now stale.
Perhaps a campaign where Jovians liberate Solar System together with LLA could reinvigorate it, but I doubt authors would publish something like this.
There

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IT BEGINS

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>>52196761

If you want good exoplanets checkout speculative evolution forums and their section on planet biospheres.
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/236091/

I liked this dry, toxic world
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5826701/1/
Some good ideas there.

>>52155457
>https://renegadeoctopus.wordpress.com/tag/eclipse-phase/
Gateway Alamanac is pretty good.

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>>52196720
I used to be really into EP, but the setting has become more and more boring in comparison to other settings for me. The setting is stagnant and set in a permanent cold war, and the existence of Cornucopia machines just kind of ruins a lot of the setting for me.

>>52196720
That's why I switched to Transhuman Space

>>52198248
I like the current setting as a jumping off point, but keeping it in the very unstable state it's in is dumb.

If you don't like CM's you're not gonna like the setting though.

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>>52196720
>Jovians are the good guys
>it makes no sense to not be bioconservative in light of the fall

You are why I won't live to see the scientific breakthroughs I long for.

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>>52198248
ok.

I'm still here loving it and making up stories. I drive my own universe.

>>52199620
That degree of modularity is seldom useful.

How would Jovians feel about using a brain box containing their original brain?

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>>52205118

What do you guys think about the "special snowflake" pronouns like xir/zir/hir? My normal response is to laugh internally when ever someone tries to make people call them "zer/zim", but in Eclipse Phase, I'm slightly more open to them. Especially after reading the stories over here: http://www.the-unpublishable.com/search/label/Eclipse%20Phase

The use of alternative pronouns make sense, especially for Muses, AGI's, and people who have been stripped of all physical attributes by TITANs until they resemble androgynous meat-drones that have been rescued and resleeved into a synth.

>>52210219
I'm open to 'they' or 'it' for things that don't have an identifiable gender.

>>52210219

I usually don't care.

When we don't know the gender of someone we just use he as generic or simply it.

In spanish, the gender neutral is masculine or "el" with some words so I don't care either.

>>52209942
I don't get it.

>>52210219
Absolutely not. If they want to use gender neutral pronouns, they should use a language that has gender neutral pronouns in the first place. Otherwise, >>52210276

>>52210219
They/Them has become dominant and people who really care can use AR skins to change pronouns said about them to their preferred ones.

>>52210219

I mean, given societal variance, it's possible that third or even fourth pronouns have caught on somewhere, but nothing in modern times is even sticking really well - at least in english. I'd wager the singular "they" probably happens instead, I already do it fuck grammar. Linguistic drift bitches.

We're getting closer, any ideas for what editon next thread should be? I don't think we talked about anything in particular this thread really strongly.

>>52212681
Maybe "The Little Things?"
Try to start discussion about the small parts of life.
How do Synths recharge? Do they/what kind of AR filters do they put on how they take in energy?
Has a person ever sleeved into a Synth just to get away from the biological inconveniences?
What is the life of a high-class Synth socialite like?
What maintenance needs to be performed on a hab/spacecraft?
How the hell do you even make a hab from scratch?

Jovepill me on Exoglots.

>>52214464

Doesn't that just mean you shoot them on sight?

>>52196855
I don't really understand this, given all the joveshills do is post the same images of soldiers and guns over and over.

>>52212837

+1

>>52210219
The ones from Orion's Arm are far less cringe-inducing.

>>52212681
"Immortal Thread Edition"

>>52214464
They're probably friendly Exhumans-that is Transhumans who have used so much physical and more importantly mental adjustments that they are no long really human by anyone's standards. They don't appear hostile, by sometimes literally sound a lot like TITAN machine life, which is really sketchy.

>>52212837
yes please

>>52212681
"Kill the Jovians Edition: How Joveshits Hold Back TRANShumanity"

>>52216101
>not reclaiming Earth with Ultimate and Exoglot alies

>>52222267
>Implying the Ultimates would work with the definition of Genetrash
>Implying they would even care about retaking earth

Maybe as a challenge but they're a little too utilitarian for that even.

>>52222308
Yes. There are far too many worthwhile challenges to pursue.

>>52218677

I think that's every thread edition. I've used the resleeve joke a couple of times in the past few months, at least.

Would you rather
>Fuck a female, scum, Chickcarnie?
Or
>Go on a series of dates with a male, socialite, Lunar Flyer?

>>52221667
This is really just beating a dead horse at this point.

Like, seriously guys. Are we capable of discussing anything other than "JOVE STRONK MAKE HUMANITY GREAT AGAIN" vs. "JOVESHITS GET OUT REEE"?

Like, why can't we instead have heated discussions about why the fuck people still use high levels of automation and AIs in large scale usage after the Fall? This isn't a Jovian thing of "DON'T USE MACHINES BAD FOR ED", but I'd think there would be a general trend towards using transhuman egos for things for security reasons.

I haven't read the books in a while so I kinda forgot if they touched on this or not.

New Thread:
>>52224841

It's a bit early, but I'm leaving soon so I figured I'd fix you guys up before I go become more of a cyborg.