EDH/COMMANDER GENERAL

>>52049411
>shit commanders edition
>Treva
How dare you

>>52049462

What does Treva do that other Bant Commanders can't?

>>52049471
sentimental memories

>>52049411
>thread topic
anon, ALL my commanders are shit, my only two decks I have right now are zirilian and hidetsugu

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>>52049479
>>52049471
>>52049462
>>52049411
As for the thread topic:

What shit commanders DON'T I run

>>52049509
But muh Gitrog :(

>>52049555
Ghave's in there too

It's all in how I build them

poorly

total Magic noob here.

why is this called /edh/, what does that stand for? shouldnt it be /mtg/?

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>play a duel against Rafiq
>Boros "aggro" versus the king of UGx goodstuff and cheap shots
>Lapse of Certainty his first Rafiq cast
>Pyroblast the second
>instant speed rout when he finally mounts a decent offensive
>winning the value game with skullclamp all the while
>eventually chunk him for 32 damage on turn 9
Boros """""""aggro""""""" is the fucking best.

I want to build Skittles since i have him lying around and i never built a mono-B deck, is infect dickish? My playgroup plays with the 15 poison counters rule.

>>52049479

Yeah okay I'll allow it. I've kept all my Invasion Dragon legends because I like dragons, and I got 9th out of 30 at one of those old Junior invitational things back in the day with a 5 color Legendary Dragon deck way back in the day.

>>52049579
Elder Dragon Highlander
Because the original commanders were the 4 Elder Dragons

>>52049613
Treva was one of two Dragons I put into a shitty Sliver deck along with Hivestone back in high school, the other being Arcades Sabboth. Treva was also my very first EDH deck.

>>52049622
5.

Nicol Bolas, Vaevictis Asmadi, Chromium, Arcades Sabboth, Palladia-Mors.

>>52049613
I built a deck for them because they were my favorite cards when I was a kid. Not one of the decks is any good though...

>>52049579
This is Commander a format of magic where you build your deck around a legendary creature of your choice, the "commander" of your deck. Instead of the usual deckbuilding rules you are allowed exactly 99 cards + your commander in your deck, max 1 of each card except for basic lands, all the cards must be of a color/colors present on your commander, your commander sits in a specific zone, the "command zone", from wich you can cast anytime you could normally cast it.

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/wierdzard-spellslinging/
I need two cuts for Covenant of Minds and Fall of the Titans, as I feel I never hit the Instans/Sorceries in the deck when Melek is out, what should go?

>>52049597

If you do play him bring candy for people to use as their infect Counters. Nobody will be that mad.

>>52049837
>>52049597
Also, inject ebola in the candies, so it fits with infect them.

>>52049880
>>>52042761
>>>52042601
>I made the charitable assumption that everyone understood that cutthroat Maga decks run Clock of Omens. Apparently that was a bit too charitable for some people in this general.

>>>52042629
>Requires less lands to go infinite. Same number of cards. Also a semi-redundant vital effect. Or do people not run Magus of the Coffers either?

>>52049761
I'd take out bedlam reveler, niblis of frost, or sphinx of the final word, and find room for young pyromancer.

>>52049166
>Anons think that colorless decks are supposed to be fun for everyone
>When all the most brutal stax pieces have far less of an effect on them and they can ramp faster than anything else

Educate them by sticking winter orbs up their asses.

>>52049594
You don't deserve to be called a Boros player

>>52049837
I might actually do it
>I swing with Skittles
>ok, path
>but are you sure you don't want these 4 juicy gummy bears?

>>52049411
>What shit commanders do you run?
Depala and Feldon are both fairly bottom of the barrel. I'm working on Phelddagrif and Lord of Tresserhorn and while she's not a total shit commander Sydri for my esper artifacts is by far the inferior choice to Sharuum even if it lets me play with some weird fun options

>>52050047
>not using skittles for skittles infect damage

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Does anyone else have problems with getting mana screwed?

I asked here before and you told me to run like 40 lands and then cut a land per three mana accelerators. I run 40 lands AND a few mana rocks and I still get shit starting hands sometimes.

>>52050157
>sometimes
yes, sometimes you get unlucky. Mulligan and try again

>>52049761
That's a whole lot of creatures for a Melek deck, I'm running 9 counting Melek if I remember correctly.
>The Electromancers
Baral
Goblin Electromancer
Mizzix
>Beatsticks/DMG
Talrand
Peezy
Guttersnipe
Disciple of the Ring
>Value/Combo Piece
Dualcaster Mage

I know this isn't what you were asking, but look into getting both Confluences in your colors if you can, Vandalblast and Smash. Some good ways to protect Melek are Counterflux and Suffocating Blast (You can't cast Blast without a legal target for the burn though, luckily Melek has 4 toughness in a pinch you can hit him).

Riptide Lab is kind of a staple, in my list 7/9 creatures are wizards so it's pretty amazing. It also goes infinite with Dualcaster Mage, Turnabout and a bunch of lands. Dualcaster mage also goes infinite with Rite of Replication.

if I had to make 2 cuts it would probably be Fog Bank and Viashino Heretic.

>Tfw ended up cutting Insurrection from my Melek list after realizing the last 5 times I cast it were at the end of a Mind's Desire to give my Talrand/YP tokens haste and there were better things I could do with that slot.

>>52050125
How is Feldon bad? Reanimation (sort of) as an activated ability off color for a reasonable price.

>>52049594

Dude, nice! I was actually thinking about Laspe of Certainty for my deck to have for the occasional moment when I really need to protect a piece or derail and opponent. And don't listen to >>52050022, you do the Legion proud, son.

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>>52049509
you should build this next

are there any commanders that essentially hold the board hostage due to consequences of being removed?

>>52050400
Space Baby

i want to buy a bunch of cards for my lifegain deck but i feel like that would be an irresponsible use of money

help me rationalize doing so

>>52050157
Even if you run 90 lands there will be those games where you get 7 spells in your opening hand. Having a good ratio just means the chance at an unkeepable opening hand becomes lower, not that it'll never happen.

Rules question: if I tutor Eldrazi Conscription with Sovereign of Lost Alara, will the Annihilator trigger?

>>52050467
Archangel of thune is amazing, buy her. The fact that one card can grant you a completely new going wide/tall wincon is amazing, not to mention her amazing defensive properties of putting all your blockers on steroids.

Who's better for mono red toolbox, zirilian or feldon?

>>52050400
Hidetsugu

>in response, tap
>hold priority, flash in Dictate and/or play Overblaze

>>52050282
He's not COMPLETE garbage but just about anything he does can be done better somewhere else and monochrome, especially mono-red, is a bitter pill to swallow

>>52050524
No. For a "when ... Attacks" trigger to trigger it needs to be declared as an attacker. Since the sovereign and annihimator trigger happen during the same momemt, the annihilator can't trigger since the conscription is not on the battlefield yet.

>>52050400
Angry Omnath, especially if it's a boardwipe and there's lots of his buddies out

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Asking here because there isn't a Standard general and because I'm a newfag.

MO cards are currently playable in std since its a "core set", correct?

>>52050664
no, they're done with core sets

>>52050664
Uh, no. What gave you that idea? Something being a core set or not has nothing to do with what's in standard.
http://whatsinstandard.com/
This'll tell you everything you need to know.

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If I'm a poorfag, should I waste like 4$ getting decent dual-lands? Is it really that important?

Because desu I'd prefer to get actual cards to substitute for the shit cards from the precon.

>>52050711
Duel lands are nice, but taplands are acceptable. It all really depends how fast you want the deck, meng.

>>52050711
Kek has blessed you with dubs. This means that you should do what your heart tells you is right. Ride free anon.

Ok, I fucked up and bought the oversize commander instead of the real deal.
I have ordered the real one now, but it might not arrive by Friday.

Does your LGS typically allow you to use the oversized card or a proxy?

>>52050574
Feldon. Mono Red has so much discard support to fuel his ability (Faithless Looting, Wheels, etc.) and you wont be limited to dragons.

>>52050799
i don't see why not

anyone who would get upset is probably the kind of player you wouldn't want to play with anyway

>>52050799
They probably won't mind, but just in case it's probably best to ask around whether someone you know or someone at your LGS has whatever you wanna use as your commander.

>>52050799
I wouldn't care and unless your LGS is full of raging autists, none of them should care either. Just keep a sleeved proxy for when it's returned to your hand something.

>>52050616
As I suspected, thanks

>>52050840
Yeah, the issue is when it's returned, or decked, or something like that.

If they complain tell them you're poor and they're being wealthcists.

>>52050711
Most budget decks still play well with only pain/check/bounce/scry/tainted/battle/tri lands

>>52050892
4 pale recluse is too many mate. I run 1 pale recluse one twisted abomination and two faerie macabre main board just because fuck affinity. Also helps against control fags trying to snap remand your 3rd living end

>>52051157
hey buddy i think youve got the wrong door, the modern club is two threads down

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>>52049411
My LGS is asking 225 US post taxes for a box of mm3.

Mostly want it for EDH stuff, since alot of it seems good in general for EDH.

I have the 5 2016 prec0ns, a few rares and mythics from the standard, and thats about it. don't have any other magic cards.
Only interested in EDH.

Should i get a box for 225?

>>52051260
no, just buy the singles you want.
damnation, path, and friends are all going to keep plummeting in price. a lot of them already have. Just buy the cards you want from the set or think you'll probably need, like damnation.

>>52049509
wait a minute...

are those a bunch of shit jojo references????

>>52051249
How the fuck did that happen

>>52051260
No. If you're only interested in EDH, there are several staple singles that you should be going for. Yes some good cards for EDH appear in MM3, but not nearly enough for you to be considering a box. Wait a couple months after release, then buy the singles from the set that are relevant to EDH.

>>52051260
Do you think you're going to get more than 225 dollars worth of singles you'll use and/or trade-bait that people will want?

Are you planning on doing a Phantom draft of it with your friends?

If the answer to either is 'yes', buy the box. If the answer to both is 'no', just buy singles.

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>>52049411
What do you guys think about Jarard? My edh circle is extremely casual but I've been debating on starting a new commander or keep working on his deck. Currently I'm having problems dealling with flyers.

>>52050345
Afraid my mono-blue is already slated to be Thassa Sea Monsters.

>>52051324
Where have you been

>>52051311

Path has been printed 7 times and was an FNM promo twice. It might go back down to 6-7, but if it hasn't crashed yet it most likely never will.

>>52051311
Don't really have alot of extra cash, don't have alot of cards either, kind of excited about prospect of lottery box.

fuck, i don't even have khans fetch lands or serum visions, or path to exile, or shit like that that i need for the decks.

My thought is that i would get at least SOME of what i wanted if i bought a box.

>>52050157
is that you Corey?

One of my friends in my playgroup gets such bad draws it's scary, like he'll shuffle and draw a new hand 4 times in a row to reveal no lands. We'll pass his deck around and everyone else draws keepable hands just fine.

>>52051355
I always go to build Jarad and end up building something else BG. It's not that he's bad, I just find the other options more exciting

also

>playing BG
>having trouble with flyers
do you live under a rock? Why aren't you running Hurricane?

>>52051355
I just used sweeps

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>>52051469
I am. And hurricane spider. I have noticed my budget deck has major problems with flyers.

>>52051512
I guess I should stop pussy footing around and put more board wipes in my deck. Black Sun Zenith can only go so far.

Are there any really good cards in mono red that dick on combo decks?
One of my friends runs a Damia deck that is just a comb deck using Damia as a draw engine. When he plays Damia we know that we are all going to die within the next turn or two unless someone can slow him down. I need cards that aren't super expensive. Like 15-20 dollars at most.

>>52051260
That's literally $6 over EV as of a week ago, and it's dropped since then.

Just buy singles retard.

>>52051609
Damn straight. Budget options include plague boiler, decree of pain and life's finale. If you specifically hate flyers, whirlwind

Silly question: what is the rule concerning split cards for EDH?
For example, would I be able to run Rise/Fall in a Dimir deck?

>>52051673
no, the card is considered all the colors on both sides

>>52051396
>Don't really have alot of extra cash, don't have alot of cards either
You have precons and standard rares. There are so many cards you should be prioritizing above Seance packs, especially if money is tight.
>kind of excited about prospect of lottery box.
It is alluring sometimes, sure. But you can get that same rush from any set. It's just smarter to buy the singles a few months after release when they're at their lowest.

>fuck, i don't even have khans fetch lands or serum visions, or path to exile, or shit like that that i need for the decks.
Khans Fetchlands are not spiking any time soon. You can pick those up for $12-20 a piece for the next couple years. Enemy fetches are not ever going to go that low. Pick them up when they bottom out. Not worth buying a box for 1-2 fetches.
Serum and Path are not worth buying a box for. Hell even damnation/craterhoof/cyclonic don't make it worth it.

Boxes have no guarantees. Buy what you need.

>>52051367
i dunno, not browsing this shit board often. how about (you)?

>>52051624
are mm3 packs seriously only 6$ ev a pack on 10$ msrp?

that is fucked up for a product that hasn't even been released yet.

>roommate is having trouble keeping up with the group in games
>offer to help
>he is a poorfag so the only decks he has are elzuri and prossh precon
>tell him to take the ramp and good shit out of elzuri for prossh
>I want to have two decks
This guy will bitch about not being up to par but won't take advice to improve. And on top of it he complains that being broke is why he can't build a good deck, and we should throttle back to help him be competitive. Fucking christ

>>52051907

If it's Newzuri then it's cheap as fuck to build. Just grab token shit, the colour staples and +1/+1 abusers and you're set for.

>>52051881
Just look at the rares m8. There's handful of really nice stuff and the fetchlands, but after that they're all <$1 bulk.

>>52051613
Blood moon ( it's going to drop with the reprint ) null rod, Dampening matrix , stranglehold, war's toll, price of glory, tsaco's web, mana barbs, burning earth, price of glory, ruination, boiling oceans.

>>52051965
I can maybe convince him of that. But he might be a lost cause if he goes Bernie Sanders mode again.

>>52050799
What is the point of that stupid gigantic shit? I never touch those garbage things.

>>52052020
Tell him you're happy to help him beef up his deck within his budget (to an extent), and that you guys MIGHT consider building lower-power decks to play with him, but

1) He does not get to whine about free help

2) You are not OBLIGATED to help him at all

3) You are sure as fuck not obligated to build new decks at his power level

>>52050125
>feldon
>bad
Are you sure it's not you who is bad? I run feldon reanimator nonsense and the only thing slowing it down is that I don't run ramp so I don't run away with wins.

>>52051907
Do you consider him a friend? Would you consider giving him some goodies or at least trading down to help him?

>>52052250
Well I don't really have anything for either of the decks he has unless I take apart one of mine and his list of stuff that actually worth something is short. I will work him after he come back from hischool shift and report back.

>>52052237
Feldon is Tier 3. He's not trash but you are in a hellua casual meta if you have to nerf him to not steamroll your opposition.

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How does my Horde of Notions list look?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/for-the-horde-of-notions-2/

Just a quick thing, I want to avoid infinite loops to preserve balance in my playgroup. That's why stuff like Karmic Guide isn't here.

>>52052369
>EDH tiers
Anon, pls stop this madness

>>52052415
K Guide is just good value though, and hits everything that Horde doesn't. Everyone knows how to interrupt her interaction with Reveillark too, and it's not like you're weaponizing the infinite ETBs/dies.

>>52052475
>Everyone knows how to interrupt her interaction with Reveillark too
My playgroup is incredibly budget and casual, I'm already operating at a much higher power level. I'm worried about painting a target on my back.

>>52049509
Ruric Thar and Reaper King, and Ghave aren't shit. Well depending how you build them.

>>52052502
See >>52049569

>>52052340
Does he have zulaport, endrek, primal vigor, and an impact tremors and or purphoros?

>>52052433
You ask for weak commanders, you have to define that.

I firmly believe that you can kick ass with most of the folks supposedly sitting in tier 5, but if you're going to call out which commanders are more equal than others you might as well use all the resources you've got to define it.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/surrak-smash-2/

Have I improved the curve?

>>52049411
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0CI1cS65Qik

First time poster here. Looking to get into Magic. I know how to play a bit, but I'm not sure what I should be getting for my first deck. There's just so many fucking cards.

Compared to Yugioh (which I haven't played in a few years) Magic seems more free in deck construction. In Yugioh, there is archtypes, and while I'm sure there are archtypes in Magic, it just seems like you have more freedom to build whatever you want.

Where should I begin? What should I buy? Thanks in advance.

>>52052919
Probably not EDH, but if you do, buy one of the precons.

>>52052415
Seems all over the place. Like it's trying to be Horde, Karador, and Athreos, but it ends up being none of them. Loads of things make no sense in the deck. I'd start fresh if I were you.

>>52052919
Play at a sealed release event or ask your LGS for a preview deck, if they have any

>>52052955
Eeh, EDH with Precon is more accessible than anything but Limited.

>>52052995
The issue is that if they haven't played any Magic, then not knowing anything about the game makes EDH (where you use shit from everywhere, with wonky rules and strange interactions abound) rather difficult to enjoy.

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>>52049411
What did you get in the mail today EDH General My pieces for Nekusar finally all came in.

>Thread Topic
One of my commander decks is a Bosh Iron Golem Deck I know there are better artifact based commanders out there but nothing is more satisfying than in response to someone pathing my darksteel or blightsteel colossus sacrificing it to bosh and dealing damage to someone.

>>52053014
Fair enough, it's a pretty damn deep and complex format so you need to know your stuff.

>>52053014
I had a stack argument with a player the other day about why he couldn't mystical tutor for a force of will and draw it off his Kozilek's cast trigger to counter my Gather Specimens when I was specifically casting Gather Specimens in response to Kozilek's on-cast draw 4 trigger. (If I'm wrong about any of this then call me a fag and fuck my boipussi)

While this was happening, two players at the table where just breaking out their new precons and you could read "fuck this gay game I'm going back to Pokémon" on their faces.

>>52049411
mayal the anime

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Would it be possible to build a relatively budget Emmy deck?

I'm, uh, asking for a friend...

>>52049509
>melek
>weird science
i love it never stop

>>52053128
If I understand correctly, I'm thinking he is correct, though it's one of those weird "Hold Priority For Shenanigans" situations.
GS is ETB, while Kozilek is cast. Therefore, Koz is cast, 4 cards are drawn, one of which is force of will. Before GS goes off, GS is countered, and Koz enters the battlefield under its casters control.

I could be wrong, I'm no judge.

>>52053184
depends what you want the deck to do

>>52053215
He casts Kozilek. Trigger goes on the stack. He passes priority. Stack is, top to bottom: draw 4, Kozilek

I cast Gather Specimens. Pass priority. Stack is: Gather Specimens, draw 4, Kozilek

He casts Mystical Tutor in response. We all pass priority. Stack is: Mystical Tutor, Gather Specimens, draw 4, Kozilek.

Mystical Tutor resolves. He puts a Force of Will on top of his library. Gather Specimens resolves. He draws 4 cards, one of which is Force of Will. It's too late to counter Gather Specimens now. Kozilek resolves. Goes under the control of the Gather Specimens caster.

>>52053262
He could always just Force the Kozilek to keep you from getting it.

>>52053278
That is indeed a thing he could have done.

>>52053253
So it legitimately is for a friend who's not very great at Magic. I just want to help them build a deck that will feel reasonably fun / interactive with the table. And they don't have a huge budget, so any moderately competitive strategy that can be build around a card they like will do.

>>52053304
I would recommend he not start with that deck. Colorless decks are not fun on a budget.

I'm kind of interested in doing a white/green/red(maybe) werewolf deck, using a bunch of innistrad/return to innistrad flip creatures.
Is there some way to use flipping a creature to proc other effects or make something cool out of this?

>>52053304
just play a graveyard/rampy deck and toss emrakul in, colorless tends to be pretty demanding on your budget

>>52053195
Your approval is welcomed

>>52052761
wtf is this shit

I'm burnt out from playing Mazirek and decided to 99 him into another deck. I'm missing a GB deck now to go along with my Enemy-color set.
What Golgari Commander stands apart from the following:
RW Brion
WB Daxos
GU Experiment Kraj
UR Arjun (Eggs/Storm)

I don't want to do Glissa, Meren, or Skullbriar.

>>52053315
>>52053351
Of this list, which do you think could be used to build a decent budget deck?

>Brisela (Bruna + Gisela)
>Emrakul, the Promised End
>Mogis, God of Slaughter
>Crosis, the Purger
>Sliver Overlord
>Sheoldred, Whispering One
>Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

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Who do I build first, lads?

>>52053736
Saskia, Keyword Tribal

>>52053690
Reyhan and ikra?

>>52053705
I'd suggest Mogis, probably. I find two-color decks easiest on new players.

One-color decks will likely frustrate them because of weaknesses that color can't cover (though Mogis would still struggle with enchantments) and because their collections might not be deep enough to support it without digging into chaff. Three color decks are a little rougher to build the landbase for, although it's doable, and gives you more room to expand later. Five color on a budget is just asking for him to quit a month later.

So yeah, I'd suggest Mogis or Crosis.

>>52053788
That was a candidate(s) except I have no idea how to build them other than counters/dudes.

>>52053690
Ishy-Kishy Spider
Nath Elves
Pharika "Group Hug"
Sisters Lure Tribal
Vhati Rock
Thelon Fungus Tribal
Gitrog Gitrog

>>52053705
Sisters or gitrog

>>52053736
Does red have enough ETB to make Norin worthwhile?

>>52053833
>Spider
Seems fine. Staying the fuck away from Spider Tribal because there's like only 3 decent ones.
>Nath Elves
Nah, not a fan of Elves.
>Pharika
Wasn't there a guy with a land-destruction Pharika deck here?
>Sisters
8 CMC. Nope.
>Vhati
Last I played him was like, Lorwyn-era EDH. Don't know how much he'll hold up in todays environment.
>Thelon
Nope.
>Gitrog
Have Titania and I like her far more than the memefrog.

>>52053855
Have you never seen a Norin deck?

Confusion in the Ranks, Genesis Chamber, Warstorm Surge, Panharmonicon, Purplez, Impact Tremors, Cloudstone Curio, and a bunch of other ETB red dudes and Chaos shit.

>>52053874
>ask for suggestions
>have a bullshit reason to deny all of them
Why do you people do this?

>>52053874
>Fine, but I'll ignore the commander completely
>no
>maybe
>no
>no
>no
>no
Boy aren't you a bucket of peaches

>>52053874
Then you are pretty much left with the sapling, from eventide

>>52053874
Then that leaves you the following options:

Ikra and/or Reyhan
Iname as One
Jarad
Sapling
Savra
Varolz

Rey and Ikra are already out because you said you don't know how to build them except "dude counters lmao", which also excludes Varolz. Iname is out because it costs too much. Jarad and Savra are both just "dude dead things lmao", so probably too similar to Mazirek for you.

So literally your only option (until you come up with some reason to go 'eeeeeeeeeh naaaaaah') is Sapling "dude butts lmao".

>>52053830
Ikra is pretty much just big butts tribals, but reyhan looks like he could be pretty interesting considering he's literally death's presence ( not the strongest card, but I like it ) on a creature. And to move counters around all you need is a sac outlet and not mana like ghave.

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So for nekusar do i go full wheel and deal tribal with nekusar style effects splashed in or do i run a grixis control shell with wheel & deals being secondary?

>>52054006
>he
She.

And she's HALF of a Death's Presence, since she only triggers if the thing already had counters in the first place, and just moves the counters, instead of counters equal to the power.

Also, lol at using one Partner

>>52054007
Up to you. He's at his strongest when you're slamming down wheel after wheel with as many duplicate Nekusar effects as you can get, but you'll also be very heavily hated off of tables because fuck Nekusar.

I personally prefer "Grixis control, but also some wheels" or "Zombie tribal, and also stop drawing so many fucking cards" Nekusar because it's less done-to-fucking-death. That's my biggest gripe about Wheels.dec, is you could take any two Nekusar decks from basically anywhere in the country and I'd bet that not including the lands, they share at least 40 cards between the two decks.

>>52054006
You would do better to put him in with Harold, skullbriar and Jarad

>>52054007
It's pretty fun to run nekusar + forced fruition and put your opponents on a spell clock.

>>52054060
Varolz* fuck you, phone

>>52054024
Funny thing is, I originally thought was a female when I saw the art, but my friends all swore it was a dude and I guess I believed them. Also I guess she is a lot worse then death's presence and ghave.

>>52054060
Harold is my favorite Colgate[spoiler/] commander

>>52054104
Yeah, the Partners are pretty much "half a Commander" by design. Using just one of them is like building Ghave and ignoring his ability to sac creatures- you're literally only using half the card.

From what you've shot down, I'd say that Sapling Big Butts is basically your only option.

>>52054121
Never found him interesting, personally. It's Jarad or meren for me. I wish sisters worked as a general though.

>>52053604
a picture of a twinkie on a plate

>>52054289
They work fine if you're just building for casual fun. My group has "low power" decks specifically for "Man, I wish" cards and strategies.

>>52049569
>>52049509
The topic was about shit commanders, not shit decks. You could argue that that any commander is shit if you judge by the deck.
Otherwise you could say that Griselbrand is a shitty commander, because I run it as armpit tribal deck.

>>52053262
This is correct.

>>52050574
Feldon, but Zirilan's got that style, man

>>52049757
And for each time your commander becomes cast, the commander tax increases by 2 generic mana. The tax doesn't increase the CMC of the spell, but functions in same way like Thalia or Trinisphere. Only commanders that are modified by commander tax are Prossh and Marath, if I remember correctly.

>>52049929
>moving goalposts

>>52050467
It really angers me how much Archangel of Thune and Serra Ascendant are. Like what the fuck.

>>52050711
Buy chinamen original duals, fetches and shocklands

>>52055044
Both are used to some degree in modern.
If you see play in modern and EDH, prices will be higher.

>>52052032
I dunno. I have used them as a bookmark.

>>52053690
Varolz +1+1 counters?
Savra "grave pact on a stick"?
Jarad "fling on a stick (but better)"?

>>52053690
If you want to be a real nigga with Golgari, Vhati il-Dal

Whilst we're on the subject of BG counters.dek, what would actually be the best commander for that? There's Varolz, Reyhan/Ikra, and Skullbriar, right? I want to make a commander constrictor deck. because winding constrictor is the shit.

>>52055321
Mazirek

>>52055372
I forgot Mazirekt

>>52050280
>Disciple of the Ring
How is she even good in EDH again?

>>52055459
Reusing stuff in gy for possible negates

>some jackass bought all the TCG preorders for Craterhoof Behemoth

>>52055522
I can see that, but most people bring her up as a beater, which is retarded.

>>52053705
Sheoldred, run lots of graveyard shenanigans, big creatures, and all of the black mana doublers

>>52055566
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKUqSnl2nxA

>>52055586
Well, she can get +1/+1 for each nonpermanent card she exiles so there's that, if you have excess mana and wish to waste everything in your gy

>>52050711
As with real life, buying real estate is always a good idea.

>>52055089
But don't buy that shitty broken down house that you can never re-sell.

Ps. Stop being a shitty Anon.

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My friend group plays with the homerule that instead of infect giving poison counters, it decreases the amount of commander damage you need to take to lose.

For example, it's normally "21 commander damage from any source- you lose," but if I take damage from Skithyrix, I don't get any combat damage from him directly, but now it's "17 commander damage from any source- you lose," then 13, and so on.

Thoughts? (Sorry if anyone else has already come up with this)

>>52055714
what in the fuck

>>52055714
Sounds absolutely lame as fuck, any reason they are doing this when shit like rafiq exists?

>>52055714
Sounds shitty desu

>>52055714
This is dumb as fuck. So either you can't kill someone with skittles and have to rely on other sources or then that's way worse than infect when it comes to balance, since if you hit the lethal amount of poison, you're still gonna die because of commander damage, because the required amount is halved anyway. Say you swing for 11, required commander damage is lowered to 10 and opponent dies since he was dealt 11 already.

>Think I've discovered some spicy tech
>Go to look at some lists
>Someone else is already using my secret spicy tech
just

>>52055798
Serves you right for being an unimaginative little faggot.

>>52055714
Makes sense kinda if you want to use infect creatures in a non-infect edh deck, but who does that? The only infect creatures worth attacking with are the ones that can one-shot a player.

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Well guys, I'm at an impasse here
I really like what I'm looking at here but I think that I need to add some more ramp in order to seal the deal on this deck
A Kodama's Reach or Cultivate?
My group said Genju is perfectly fine for them so no worries there

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/genju-of-the-realm-edh-1/
Please berate me /edh/

>>52056080
Farseek seems pretty good here.

>>52053128
I'm pretty sure you are right my man, this is what the stack looks like after he casts the mystical tutor:
Gather specimens
Kozilek cast trigger
Kozilek

So gather specimens resolves, he draws the cards and there's nothing left to counter, then Kozilek ETB's on your side of the field.

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>>52056132
Yeah that looks like a pretty good fit.
I don't think Weathered Wayfarer is nearly as good a fit in this deck as others
Probably an Elesh Norn or Vorinclex would be fine?

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>>52049411
>shit commanders edition

go ahead, try and run her

playing against friend's Nekusar as UG Kruphix
get Jace and Managorger hydra on the field
draw Altered ego 3 turns later
Ego Nekusar, Ult Jace, swing for lethal trample with Managorger

feels good man.

Hey /edh/ i need your help. I'm trying to convert my Meren ETB durdly deck into a durdly dredge deck that uses big dudes like Boneyard Wurm, Lord of Extinction and Jarad to win. I tried puttin in some ETB creatures to justify running Meren but i have too many good cards and now i don't know what to cut.
Here's the deck http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/07-03-17-judge-dredge/

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Get anything sweet in the mail today /tg/? I just came back from picking up these bad boys.

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>>52057325
Today was a good day.

>>52055566
Some people are just huge cocksuckers

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>>52055798
> think I'm going to discover some spicy secret tech
> pour over card lists by set
> realize that people have been playing magic for over 20 years and I'm not going to discover something someone else hasn't

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http://www.starcitygames.com/article/34662_Play-By-Play-The-Mill-Meoplasm.html

>Scott (Brion Stoutarm): Scalding Tarn. I say boo to him for playing off-color fetches.

Are the cancer cells too much for him to handle? Is he going to ban off-color fetches?

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>>52057325
You bet :^)

Also, for that one anon, I'm sorry but it wasn't possible to build it on her hooters

>>52057604
As retarded as Sheldon and his cronies are, banning off color fetches goes against their mantra of making the commander rules straightforward and concise. They've already removed the banned as commanders list and just nixed the mana production rule, I can't see them giving ten colorless cards a color identity, even if it triggers Sheldon's autism.

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What is the de-facto Grixis symbol? Like the symbol that is most iconic of Grixis colors. Nicol Bolas' head? Something else?

>>52057647
Are you the new EDH/G meme?

>>52057696
:^)

>>52053058
>Crosis and Grixis Charm + Time Reversal
My nigga, hope you have fun with DJ Skellyking

>>52055591
>and all of the black mana doublers
He's on a budget, though. Aren't Urborg + Coffers expensive?

>>52053736
Space Baby "When this dies" Tribal

>>52051260
The expected value is not that good. There are a lot of bulk rares and even some bulk mythics. If you want to break even with it don't pay more than 180ish

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>>52057325
mostly stuff for my Trostani deck and for some other sutff

>>52057802
>Slime Molding
>not Wurmcalling
>not both you have both, right?

>>52057802
Isn't slime-molding really fucking bad though?

>>52057851
>>52057866
the local store i order from normally didn't have one so i got slime-molding as a stopgap till i can get wurmcalling. not sure if i keep it after i get wurmcalling.

>>52057885
Kick it, Molding is kinda bad indeed. You have Sprout Swarm already?

>>52055566
What a fucker

Glad I got mine

>>52057898
Why are you using a tripcode right now?

>>52055566
>Laugh quietly at all the fuss derphoof continues to make
>Check out of boredom
>Damn thing is 20 bucks now.

I should probably move mine out of the bulk Green box where it went when I pulled it.

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>>52055655
>comparing expensive cardboard used for a children's card game to actual investments

>>52057325
No... waiting on the guts for Titania though.

Reanimation/Recovery/"Cockroach" spells for Sidisi, Brood Tyrant? I already have Living Death, Gravespawn Sovereign, Phyrexian Delver, Dread Return, and Victimize and know about (and are considering) Havengul Lich and Living End. Is that enough for how fast Sidisi wants me to fill my GY? Also, how many shuffle-back effects is too many? I figure Elixir of Immortality and Gaea's Blessing can't go awry but I feel like I might want more.

>>52055566
>>52057989
>>52057934

Don't worry Anons. When MM3 hits the market you'll get them easily and cheaper.

>>52057388
Golly, that's spicy.

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You're in your playgroup and you turn 1 land, sol ring and drop this.

What are your friend's reactions?

>>52058111
rise of the dark realms

>>52058215
They get extremely mad, refuse to scoop out of spite and the game grinds for 4 hours

>>52058215
that would be the moment that my playgroup bans sol ring for good

>>52058215

>As long as winter orb is untapped

What exactly is the purpose of this condition?

>>52058267
something something derevi something

>>52058267
So that players can get around it without needing to destroy it.

>>52058267
>tap it on your upkeep
>untap all your lands
>untap it again before your opponents' next "untap"
>?????
>profit

>>52058291
Or

>tap it down during end step prior to your turn
>untap all your stuff as normal

>>52058215

I don't know but it'd be hilarious, in fact I'm buying it now just to do that

>>52058215
I've been on the fence on putting this in Slobad, I think it's time to do it. While convincing my group to start a game with their chosen nut draw.

>>52057647

That's actually better than expected, good job anon

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>Find some secret tech
>It's actually secret
>mfw

Post your hidden gems

>>52058216
Brilliant. I'm doing an OK amount of symmetrical milling. Probably not as many wipes as I should but this is kind of a tokens deck that wants its board developed, not a control deck that benefits from resetting. Bit pricey at 9 but under the right conditions, especially if I've been fucked by repeat sweepers, it could be a blowout.

Thanks, anon

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>>52058440
For Titania or Gitrog?

Pic Related isn't particularly spicy but it is a 3-mana 2-for-1 and a card from Legends that hasn't been obsoleted (Grab the Reins and Turn Against are more versatile but also more expensive)

>>52058497
Its in Angry Omnath with Titania as the hidden general. Oh wow that could be a potential life saver if they're swinging with a few large dudes.

Thoughts, critique, hate on my Bant Enchantress deck pls? I am wondering how effective would it be in an actual game in your opinion.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jenaras-bant-enchantress/

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>>52058440
>secret tech
every thread I need to shill for it

>>52058707

This card is terrible.

>>52058607
It's extra fun if you've got a Crawlspace out so only two creatures can come for you to begin with.

I hadn't considered Angry Omnath. Really should have since he's another decent "Lands matter" choice.

>>52058497
Act of Aggression is so much better than that jank
>3 mana if you have excess life
>5 mana if you have excess mana
>can steal a non-attacking target to block with
>can use it during your own turn to attack with

>>52058707
As long as your deck is relatively high power throughout that could be good. Interesting politics behind it too

>>52058718
Is it though? If you're playing in an established meta and group you know everyone's deck regardless, so you won't be giving away that much information. Yes, they get to choose, but it's still card advantage on a stick, since you're insulated from getting, say, three lands.

>>52057679
>Farseek is now a 5 colour card

>>52057679
General thinking on removing "banned as Commander" is that it had nothing to do with 'two banlists is weird' and everything to do with "MODO doesn't know how to apply two banlists to a format"

>>52058927
>>52057679
>>52057604
Honestly, even if the RC 'bans' off-color fetches I'm still gonna fucking use them.

Is there any way at all to make grandeur work in edh?

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yeah but seriously
does anyone actually run fumigate?

>>52058718
No, its 3 mana get the worst 3 cards in your deck

if you have a decent deck this is a great card.
usually its 3 mana get a forest, Birds and Wayfarer's Bauble
cast it a second time and your opponent is going to have a hard time not giving you something good, not to mention using it on someone who wants you to remove something specific.

>>52058927
>durr it's impossible to apply the rule to the fetches only

>>52059005
Sure. Play the Grandeur creature, copy it with a Clone effect, keep the clone. Get the original from your graveyard back to your hand.

>>52059009
Why would you?

>>52059077
Why would you?

Why does Farseek get to count as one color but Scalding Tarn counts as Red and Blue? Why would you make the fetches the sole exception to the "color identity is based on Color Indicators and mana symbols only" rule?

>>52055459
It gets big if you have a bunch of instants and sorceries in the yard, and people forget about the Spell Pierce ability all the time.

Is the all-foil Niv-Miz anon around? Requesting pic and decklist.

>>52059107
Because the fetches have two-colored card frames, they're clearly """supposed""" to be the two colors.

You're mentally handicapped if you think the rule would be "you can't use cards that mention lands that aren't in your color identity" instead of specifically referencing the fetches, since shit like Boil would be affected.

>>52057647
> he actually did it

Fucking madman.

>>52059175
Until end of turn, giving her worse firebreathing. Also, spellslinger has plenty of recursion, and beaters that function off of cards in graveyard. Her first ability is good, tapping and untapping situationally useful depending on someone elses winter orb or untapping a gilded lotus for enough to win, and as a beater almost never. It's not worth exiling your spells unless you'll win that turn.

>>52059213
So they'd change the rules to "Color identity is determined solely by mana symbols in the text box, mana symbols in the mana cost, and color identity, except for fetches, which are considered to have the color identity of the two land types they mention. Only fetches, though. Farseek is still green, Boil is still blue, and Grixis Panorama is still colorless."

That's so much better, you're right.

>Still no Domain colored Legendary Eldrazi
Why

>>52059242
>>52058372
I aim to please :^)

>>52057741
> make them draw cards so that you can make them discard their hands again

FUCK I feel like an idiot for not realizing this

>>52059264
Aside from the last two passive-aggressive sentences, you're literally adding 18 words. Add a footnote with a list of the names of the fetches for clarity and you're set.

It's really not that convoluted.

>>52053184
Don't bother building Emrakul unless you've got the time and large amounts of fuck money to dedicate to the colorless life.

>>52059346
Sure, it's not a lot of words.

My point is, does it feel the least bit intuitive? "Here are the rules on color identity, they're super simple: It's based on mana symbols in the cost and rules text, and also Color Indicators.

Oh, and also an additional set of rules completely contrary to that applies to literally only these 10 cards for no apparent reason."

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What are the chances of old Emmy ever being unbanned? I wanna shell out for this sick as fuck foil but since EDH is the only format I play where I'd ever want to use it I'll hold off if there is no chance.

>>52059411
Basically fuck-all. They were pretty firm on the ban.

That said, talk to your group and see if they'd mind you building an Emmy deck.

>>52059411
She should at least be allowed in the 99.

>>52053184
If you want to live the colorless life. You pretty much at least have to be ready to buy mana crypt, metalworker, mana vault, ancient tomb, sensei's top, all is dust, rings of brighthearth and the other titans.

Also, if you take Emmy at the command you'll have a rough time with card draw (as opposed to Kozilek), so you'll have to run lower tier stuff like book of rass or loreseeker's stone.

On a sidenote, does anyone know if strionic resonator is actually good with Emmy's cast trigger or is it useless?

>>52059439
Wasn't that the bigger problem though? Turn 4 bribery into fuck you? Although with the multiple colorless sac outlets and infinite mana combo's (especially with paradox engine being added to the mix) infinite turns would be incredibly easy with Emmy at the helm.

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>>52059439
You can have Emrakul. Can I have Rofellos?

>>52059439
She was actually more problematic there. It was like Prime Time on steroids- everyone was trying to steal/copy/reanimate/abuse her. It warps the game. Way worse than having her in the command zone.

>>52059439
>She should at least be allowed in the 99.
>She
it clearly has a dick
also has anyone played with this thing unbanned? I think I could get to 15 mana on turn 4-6 pretty easily

>>52059411
They have a big hatebound for it and stuff like prime time, which are creatures that scream EDH.

Sheldon will never unban, wizards might if Shelly dies of turbocancer though.

>>52059515
The average for a decent Kozilek deck is turn 3-5. I'd say that Emmy'd generally come out turn 4-7 in a decent deck.

>>52059411
Never, she fits in with all the other creatures that get targeted by Bribery and clone effects every fucking game.

>>52059481
Of course.

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>>52059411
>Decide to check out the EDH banlist
>Worldfire is b&

So I've decided to break down, merge up, and generally lower the amount of decks I have. Which ones do you think are worth keeping and which ones should be broken down completely? I love all of them but I just have so many that I cant play all of them and it annoys me that they don't all get love.

>Atraxa Infect
Seeks avoid combat and to kill everything out of combat. Lots of -X/-X. Main win condition is to ping infect then wait it out while pillowingforting up and locking my opponent down.

>Five Color Eldrazi
Casual fun deck built around shitting out as many Eldrazi as possible. Breaks format rules.

>Queen Marchesa Taxs
Draw a card? That's a life. Tap mana? That's another life. Attacking me? More life. Not doing anything? Works for my I have more drawpower than you.

>Kemba Equipment
Spam equipment and spam kitties. Was my very first MTG deck ever and for whatever reason has the luck of the gods in it since I rarely lose with it 1v1.

>Ashling Allahu Akbar
Board hostage and other bullshit. Love getting her over 40 counters and just laughing all the way to the bank since everyone knows I can end the game whenever I damn well chose to.

>Karn Artificer Wonderland
Shits out artifacts and just pulls bullshit. Tons of combos I'm unaware of. Just pulls bullshit like 4 knowledge pools at once and somehow comes out winning.

>Kytheon Human Tribal
Shits out low cost humans then pumps them up with anthems. Not a lot of thought put into it but it is fun to watch tryhard decks cry when I aggro them to hard.

>Tariel Angel Tribal
Probably my most powerful deck. Shits out angels and has a ton of graveyard shenanigans. Full of removal and manarocks.

>Karona Russian Roulette
Probably my most fun deck. Pillowforts up hard then drops things like Avatar of Slaughter to force everyone to start swinging but laughs as they have to target anyone but me. Love watching alliances fall apart as people get mad at each other over shit out of their control.

>>52059620
yes?
because floating mana is a thing.

Didn't know where to ask it so I think here's the place:

Is there any card similar to this Murozond guy in MtG?

http://www.amazingmtg.com/catalog/world_of_warcraft_tcg-wow_singles-raid__dungeon_treasure-battle_of_the_aspects/murozond_the_lord_of_the_infinite/84659?qty=6&commit=%EF%88%97

>>52059376
>Here are the rules on color identity, they're super simple: It's based on mana symbols in the cost and rules text, and also Color Indicators.
Except that's not a full explanation at all. Double-faced cards have an additional rule to make them work, reminder text has an additional rule to make it work, shocks and duals have an additional rule to make them work, motherfucking basic lands have an additional rule to make them work.

The color identity rules are already unintuitive with a truckload of exceptions, adding fetches would just be another drop in the bucket

>>52059668
What part of Murozond do you want?

Evil Dragon?

Time-Controlling Dragon?

Time-controlling powers (Dragon optional)?

Repeating the same sequence of events over and over hoping for a different outcome?

Some element of his visual design?

>>52058267
Archaic flavor design where tapped artifacts were "off". If you look at the original version, it doesn't have the untap clause, because it was inherent to artifacts.

>>52058446
>>52058216

>Testing
>Sac all creatures to Altar of Dementia in response to Living Death
>Eternal Witness comes back fetching Rise from my GY to resolve next turn

Oh man if I can pull off anything half as awesome live I'll call the whole deck a success.

>>52059668
Depends on what you want.

There's an entire MECHANIC like his ability, called Suspend, where you pay some small cost and exile a card from your hand face-up with N Time Counters on it, and remove a counter each turn. Some cards give you a way to remove time counters faster, but all the Suspend cards are "cast me for free once all the time counters are gone". There's even a Dragon with Suspend, though it tends to get stuck there a lot because of the ability it has.

As for the "searching for a card" thing, there's Archmage Ascension, but it's hard to get online. Also Maralen of the Mornsong, but she benefits opponents too.

>>52059692
>Double-faced cards have an additional rule to make them work
A rule that makes perfect sense: "The back face's color identity counts too". Intuitive.

>Reminder text has an additional rule to make it work
No it doesn't. Reminder text is not, and has never been, rules text. There is not an 'extra rule' to make Trinisphere not have a Black color identity, because that black mana symbol is not in the rules text.

>Shocks and duals have an additional rule to make them work
How do you figure? All cards with a basic land type have an intrinsic ability of T: Add {COLOR} to your mana pool". All forests have a green color identity- there is not an 'additional rule' for that.

>The color identity rules are already unintuitive with a truckload of exceptions
Just because you don't actually know the rules doesn't mean there's exceptions.

>>52059698
>He didn't actually check the link and thought anon meant the character

Fuck, ignore me.

>>52059009
I have it in my shitty treva pillowfort

>>52059284
You're alright in my book

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Any decent budget rainbow rocks?

>>52059775
>Shitty Treva pillowfort
I like you.

>>52059806
Darksteel Ingot is still the mack-daddy. Commander's Sphere is okay, Cultivator's Caravan is a thing, and from there they're all just shittier versions of those (like manalith).

Coalition Relic is solid, but expensive.

>>52059009
I run it in every deck I can. People tend to go wide at my FLGS.

>>52059808
It's actually a lot of fun

>>52059630
Floating mana doesn't really matter with worldfire. The only things you could cast off of that mana would be Misthollow Griffon and Eternal Scourge.

>>52059620
>durr I cast Ghostway into Worldfire
>durr I cast Worldfire when something is under an Oblivion Ring
>durr I cast Worldfire when Keldon Marauders/Outpost Siege/Vela the Night-Clad is out
>durr I activate Kaya, Ghost Assassin and then cast Worldfire
etc.

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>>52059786
You're a pretty cool guy too anon.

>>52059842
No, I believe you.

I have a shitty Treva pillowfort too

>>52059845
What is "your Commander", alex?

>>52059748
>There is not an 'extra rule' to make Trinisphere not have a Black color identity, because that black mana symbol is not in the rules text.
[Comprehensive Rules] 903.4b Reminder text is ignored when determining a card’s color identity. See rule 207.2.
>All forests have a green color identity- there is not an 'additional rule' for that.
[Official Commander Rules] Lands whose type includes swamp, island, plains, forest and/or mountain (e.g.: basic lands, shocklands, dual lands, Shadowmoor special-basics, etc) also have the corresponding colour identity. As such, they may not appear in a deck unless the Commander is also of the appropriate identity.

Just stop posting m8

>>52059620
I'm pretty sure all effects that set life totals to less than 10 are banned. Possibly all the mass life-total-set-to-value effects not the targeted ones like Magister Sphinx.

>>52059886
Neither of those are 'extra rules', they're clarification. If you actually checked the full CR, you'd see that 207.2 says that italicized text has no game function, and rule 305.6 says that any land with a basic land type has the intrinsic ability to tap for the associated color.

Neither of those are 'additional rules', and neither is unintuitive. "These ten cards, and ONLY these ten cards, have totally different and unintuitive color identity rules for no good reason, while other cards that do almost the exact same thing (see: The Panoramas, Farseek) do not" WOULD be an unintuitive additional rule.

>>52057325
Don't have a phone, but:
- Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
- 2 Wirewood Lodges
- Russian 9th Hell's Caretaker
- 2 Praetor's Counsels (how is that card so cheap?)
- Urborg, ToY
- Minion Reflector
- playset of Bojuka Bogs

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>>52059515
>it clearly has a dick
I see tits, not dicks

>>52058801
>If you're playing in an established meta and group you know everyone's deck regardless, so you won't be giving away that much information.
That's a big iff.

>Yes, they get to choose, but it's still card advantage on a stick, since you're insulated from getting, say, three lands.
Those judgment-esque cards where the opponent chooses the mode always means you get the worst possible outcome. Enjoy getting your reliquary tower, slaughter pact against a black deck, and fleshbag marauder against sigarda.

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>>52049411
precon-scrub, reporting in

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>>52060061
>sitter of faces

>>52058291
You can't tap winter orb willy nilly anon. You need something given you the ability to tap it

>>52058291
Untap is before upkeep friendo, endstep of opponents turn works fine though

>oversized Atraxa: 0,15€
>regular size Atraxa: 14€

is there any reason to use the normal one other than the big one not fitting inside the deck box?

>>52060506
The fact that you might have to put it into game zones other than the battlefield and the Command Zone?

>>52059698

I meant the time flavor along with the "search a card" mechanic. Sorry I wasn't very specific on it, but...

>>52059722

...got it covered. Thanks a lot, man!

>>52060541
Except there really never will be because you can send it to the command zone instead of anywhere but the battlefield as a replacement effect. This anon is actually on to something.

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>>52061014
>"I cast cyclonic rift"
>Well, guess I have to pay my 12 mana command tax because I'm a poorfag

>>52050513
So clearly you're supposed to run 94 lands in a deck. That way it's impossible to end up with a 7 spell hand. Thanks anon!1

>>52061076
You can hold the oversized in hand, since order is unimportant. IF you need to discard a random, be actually random and roll for it.

She should never need to be in your library, which is the only real issue.

>>52051435
He shouldn't have banged that Gipsy hooker then.

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>>52051907
>I want to have two decks
>take the ramp shit from Elzuri for Prossh, then put it back into Elzuri when you want to play that

why wasn't this the first thing that came to your mind?

>>52061261

>>52061261

>>52061261

>>52061261

>>52061261

>>52061014
>What is Mindslaver