Warmachine/Hordes General WarmaHordes

This game is dying.

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Who is your favorite Warcaster/Warlock? Can be from a fluff perspective or gameplay perspective.

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>>52022871
Well when you have that kind of shitty attitude what do you expect? No one wants to play with a negative salt lord

>>52022903
I don't really know much about things, as I only have a few games under my belt... but I'm really loving Forge Master Syntherion and the way he synergizes with vectors.

>>52022903
Mordikaar. Literally a dead man walking who doesn't care much for the Hoksune code because he's dead so why give a shit?

Him or Skarre. Because Skarre has a really nice bust and a great rack.

Interested in Hordes, specifically Skorne, what's the deal with this latest errata re: them? Is the card deck basically useless now?

>>52024424
Don't bother with the cards. Warroom is the better alternative right now and after the patches it received over the past year it's now stable and runs somewhat smootly.

>>52022903
Gameplay-wise: Thexus. His brand of Cephalyx as a list pairing is a pretty interesting, and it's just fun to play.

Lore? Probably Krueger or Lylyth.

>>52024466
Will the cards be free with this new community thing happening?

>>52024424
If you want to use the cards, PP made a PDF of the errata that you can print out, cut out, and stick in front of the cards if you have them in sleeves. It's what I do.

>>52022903
I've always liked Magnus, both gameplay and fluff. The fucker's pretty cool.

>>52025137
He's a badass. Can't wait to play him in Cygnar.

>>52025154
>Can't wait to play him in Cygnar.
never ever

>>52025154
Yeah, same here - I have a bit of a soft spot for games that have fluff progression mirrored in the rules, even though warcasters generally have ridiculous levels of plot armour in the fluff.

Having Caine turn mercenary, and Magnus get (barely) accepted back into the fold of Cygnar, and seeing that get reflected in a game sense with a faction change is the sort of thing I'd want to see Privateer Press do more.

>>52024522
Yes, but only soon (TM).

>>52022786
Is this game still dead?

>>52025708
Yes. We're all just playing it ironically. As are all the people at tournaments and cons.

>>52025760
As are all the people who are jumping off the PP ship left and right?

People play it still? I live in BC like an hour from PP HQ and I don't ever hear about anyone playing it.

>>52025851
Are they too busy playing Guild Ball? XD

>>52025829
There've been quite a few end of last year, but it seems to be stabilizing right now, at least in Europe.

Thinking about starting an army - Legion or Cryx. I like to hit hard. How to start them?

>>52025969
Both of these factions are currently in somewhat of an identity crysis after being the top factions last edition. They're not bad, but a bit behind the current top factions and have some bad options.

That said, they're playable and if they both appeal to you, you should probably go by playstyle. Cryx generally likes debuffing their opponent while attacking their weak points from rather crazy angles. Legion gets to ignore a bunch of rules (less so than last edition, but still) and like hitting hard and fast. Both factions are on the fragile end of the spectrum, so if things go wrong, they go terribly wrong.

Both factions can break away from their general playstyle and you'll probably find a warcaster/warlock in any faction that can play any style of list/strategy. But the above is how the factions play in general.

Another thing to consider is the core mechanic. Warmachine uses Focus and Hordes uses Fury. Both essentially do the same thing (fuel spells, attacks, etc.), but are obtained and used in different ways. Generally Fury is a bit more flexible while Focus is a bit more powerful (not intrinsically, but the respective models usually have somewhat better stats).

>>52025969
If you want to start Cryx make sure you like Coven/Deneghra1 and Satyxis Raiders before buying into faction because if you want to win these will be the casters and units you will be playing until you're sick of it, honestly things would be easier and probably more interesting with some other Warmachine faction (Cygnar/Khador/Retri/PoM/Mercs).

>>52022903
Either Oleg "What's a war crime?" Strakhov or Tyrant "What's a war crime?" Xerxis.

>>52026198
>If you want to start Cryx make sure you like Coven/Deneghra1 and Satyxis Raiders before buying into faction because if you want to win these will be the casters and units you will be playing until you're sick of it, honestly things would be easier and probably more interesting with some other Warmachine faction (Cygnar/Khador/Retri/PoM/Mercs).

Cryx has more viable builds than most factions now with the Ghost Fleet and errata'ed Gaspy2.

Skarre1,Skarre2,Gaspy2 and Scaverous all have viable competitive builds.

Internal balance-wise, Soul Hunters, Satyxis Blood Witches, Bane Warriors and Mechani/carrion thralls all see play.

Cryx is actually one of the more balanced factions, just not a power faction anymore.

>>52027017
Kind of agree, especially Skarre1 her Feat hits like metric ton of nails though very predictably. However aside Coven you are praying to dodge the worst match-ups and I'm not entirely sold on view of Cryx being one of the more balanced factions either.

How's PoM doing with the last changes?

>>52027077
Ghost fleet/Denny1 and Gaspy2 are pretty good all comers too. I'm pretty sure there's an all comers Terminus ghost-fleet build too. I just haven't found it yet.

>>52027156
Still going strong, but without the free HR wins. Is EoT out yet? He destroys the world.

>>52025851
how can you get from British Columbia to Bellevue Washington in under two hours?

also, where do you live in BC that there's no one playing Warmachine. I'm in P. Moody and play at Hourglass, there's actually a community paint event on the 19th.

>>52027017
>Cryx is actually one of the more balanced factions

And one of the more boring factions. We have very few interesting synergies left any more, and our recursion was gutted. It's "Run forwards, apply debuffs, try not to get shot" the faction.

>>52027156
Pretty awesome.

Amon is still bonkers. Eye of Truth is amazing. HR is is still good, but no longer broken.

In my opinion, it's the most complete faction, between the most playable casters and models.

>>52027219
>And one of the more boring factions. We have very few interesting synergies left any more, and our recursion was gutted. It's "Run forwards, apply debuffs, try not to get shot" the faction.

Gunslingers, errataed Gaspy2 and Ghost Fleet opened that up a lot. Now Cryx has cloud options and a surprisingly effective ranged game. Certainly not perfect but there's a lot more involved that just "run banes, hope they survive".

>>52025905
It's dying here in Ireland.

The guys in the south barely play, the Dublin lot seem pretty apathetic and the northern lot are about the same. In previous years they could have fielded 3 WTC teams easily, this year they barely put one together.

Warpcon in Cork used to be the biggest tournament of the year here and it only had 12ish players this year. In one round two guys played X-Wing instead.

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>>52022903
Ashlynn, gotta love the desperate resistance thing. I'm stoked she's actually gonna start participating in the fluff too

So yeah. This weekend I went to a local convention to run demos because our local warmachine meta has died completely.

I got one new person wanting to buy a starter box, and two former players from years back that might show up.

In comparison, xwing had about 12 people playing and 40k had around 30.

I'm in talks with local 40k players now about buying a space marine force so I can play a game that while not nearly as good has actual players.

>>52028537
Okay fine, here's your (you).

I got the starter box for PoM and played a few games. Malekus seems pretty good and I kinda wanna run heavy jack armies. Where do I go from here?

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>>52022903
Zevanna Agha, The Old Witch of Khador.

I love everything about her, except for the actual rules on the table. Because god damn, is she awful.

Here's hope that Old Witch 2 will be viable. They won't fuck it up, right?

I am going to build two desert hydras at the same time this week.

May Menoth have mercy on my soul.

>>52029055
Hoksune model is hoksune man.

>>52028760
Old Witch 2 is part of the community development so she'll be OP as fuck or utter shit.

Is magnus2 still worth playing? I was thinking about running him with my Damiano Kingmaker pair, but I just don't see him worth playing the the nerfs to throw and he just seems like Bart without a auto boosted Galleon.

>>52029635
He's worlds better than he was in mk2. As I understand it he's one of merc's more competetive casters nowadays.

>>52029635
There's a good chance he becomes a scenario god in near future.

>>52028749
Look into the warcaster Amon, he loves jacks

Fuck putting together Wracks. This shit is terrible.

>>52028749
his character jack eye of truth is great with him. He like to play fire based jack gunlines, so heavies that are good with him are things like reckoners and vanquishers. Redeemers are also good with him bringing them with Tristan since you have the reckoner for the -2 def buff.

>>52030026
Styrofoam + super glue should make it bearable.

ADR suggestions for Skorne? plus specialist lists?

>>52030211
Zaadesh + whatever you like

>>52022903
Magnus, for being the most vindicated man in the setting. I really think Magnus and Caine would have gotten along if things had been slightly different.

Drake McBain, they only man who really gets to live his dreams.

Maelock, for that glorious stunt he pulled with Caliban.

>>52030227
This is my first ADR - since there are no more cards, how do you do the card thingy for the specialist thingy

>>52022871
Just the forums are.

>>52030241
After list selection, just tell your opponent what you're switching out for what.

>>52025851
>1 hr from Seattle.
Are you in Vancouver? They just had a steamroller that had 32 players in it like last weekend. A few of us Vic boys went over for it too. There's tons of warmachine happening in PNW, at least in the cities.

>>52029635
I don't think he's worth running in Kingsmaker as much now, but him with Idrians and Sp7 arm 21 heavies is pretty great. And he can get Gallant up to def 15 arm 21 too, or just run Raggy like everyone does and pump your damage to crazy levels with arced Calamity. His feat is also bonkers for scenario, even if he loses some of the trickyness of the feat n' throw tactic.

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Elara2 release when

>>52030418
Yeah I always fancied Gallant with him, I never understood the Kingmaker hype with him. He doesn't have any synergy with halbies or trenchers honestly.

>>52030157
Thanks for the tips. Styrofoam should help.

>>52030624
The day before Gastonne2

>>52022903
Anson Durst. He strictly adheres to his own moral code to the point of defying his superiors. Dig the fact that hes part of a dying cultlike paladin order. Gameplay wise hes a fucking beast

>>52030748
He's alright with Trenchers, but Idrians are just better for the circumstances because they have pathfinder and prey. He was hype in Kingsmaker because he could feat and be thrown forward to prevent the enemy's army from moving and contesting on scenario, while also being safe from ranged attacks due to his feign death rule gained from theme benefits.

>>52029635
Of course he is. Magnus2's feat is still ridiculous and your opponents warcasters have to live in constant fear of taking two POW 16 knockdown rockets and a POW 15 AOE to the face.

I wouldn't go theme though.

Glad the sticky got updated with the Command Books. I'll see if I can afford to get the other ones from the online store when they come out and load them here as well.

>>52025851
>>52025829
>>52025708
>>52022871

I see comments like this in every thread, what's the deal with this? People that can't let go? Keyboard warriors just looking to troll?

>>52030748

I believe that was before the change to power attacks. You could potentially feat, then throw him forward to get a big lead on scenario. In theme you were immune to ranged & magic attacks thanks to feign death.

He's still legit, though I'd take him out of theme. Loved a list from the WTC, slightly tweaked now due to point costs changing:

(Magnus 2) Magnus the Warlord [+28]
- Gallant [17]
- Mangler [15]
- Nomad [11]
- Renegade [10]
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4]
Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15]
- Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5]
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8]
Harlan Versh, Illuminated One [4]
Kell Bailoch [5]
Alten Ashley [6]
Dirty Meg [3]
Stockpile

Used to have a mangler in stead of nomad + dirty Meg, but Ashley got more expensive. Not convinced that he's still worth it with gargantuans being immune to grievous. Still handy at times though.

What if Magnus2 just used his feat on the first turn of the game? Like go first, activate Magnus, feat, do shit. Your opponent is completely locked out of the game barring throwing out their upkeeps.

>>52032866
>If an enemy model start it's movement in Magnus' control range,

>>52032910
O-oh...

Has anyone got the Serevius YMCA image from the last thread?

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>>52033005
I got you

>>52032708
Because the game isn't being played anymore in people's area. Doesn't mean the game is being played period. Also don't feed the trolls if it bothers you so much.

>>52022903
I really like Mohsar and Bradigus as a pissed off druid combo who have to swoop in and deal with everyone's fuckups or else the world will end.

I like Ossrum because dwarf Patton and the potential for glorious war with Makeda.

I like Xerxis because unstoppable juggernauts who are competent in other areas is my thing.

And, as another anon already said, I like McBain because he's just having so much damn fun. Also he reminds me of some biker friends.

New to Warmahorders. Is ultimate bundle a good idea on WarRoom at this point in the games life? I know I can just download all the card pack PDFs, but if they're going to be updating rules often, I don't mind shelling out money for their app. I just don't want to shell out money if there's going to be a new edition within the next 4-5 years.

>>52033802
Download WHAC from the Google store. It's War Room but free.

>>52033897
I don't own any Android devices.

>>52034110
Buying one is cheaper than buying cards on War Room.

I recently glued a few inches of chopstick onto a base of each size and painted a front arc on them. They're the best fucking idea ever and we use them as proxies in like every game at my LGS.

>>52034788
..... Welcome to proxy bases?

>>52035235
But we lived in the stone age before, we we'd just use a plain blank base that you couldn't slot into awkward places without disturbing models, and even if you did you'd never get it back out. Now the clouds have parted and sunshine has broken through.

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If I were to sell my trolls, how much off MSRP would you guys expect?

>>52035344

Depends on if they're painted or assembled already, and is so at what quality.

>>52035344
Used models usually sell for about 50%. You might be able to get more than that if they're well painted, and I mean actually well. Your best bet is to find someone local since its a crapshoot selling online. You could try Bartertown though.

>>52035540
let's be generous and say poorly assembled and painted

>>52025760
This actually seems to be how this game survives oddly. My local meta is either players who've been playing since Mk1 or new players roped in by the same, a total of 7 players. While 40K has an easy 12+ per game day.

>>52035572

Invest in a big jar and some Purple Power and strip those bitches then. Should remove all of the paint, primer, and glue assuming you didn't use some particularly weird primer.

Remember that people who are looking to buy used minis want them as cheap as possible with as little hassle as possible. You could sell $300 dollars worth of dudes for $100, but if the time, effort, and material cost of getting those minis back to a blank slate looks too high, very few people will buy then.

>>52033802
>>52033802
For what its t's worth myself and everyone in my community has picked it up. $80 or whatever it is for the ultimate bundle is chump change for a miniature game and its pretty handy to have all the rules handy

If you're cheap you can just wait for them to release the free PDFs and print off cards if you want.

>>52035344
It's pretty much never worth it to sell your models. Nobody wants to clean up someone else's shitty models and you'll be lucky to get 50% retail for them. If that.

It's almost always better to just keep them so you can play them in the future

>>52036179
But what if I never ever ever want to play with them?

>>52036609
If you're absolutely certain then prepare to lose a lot of money and be disappointed. Like I said, you're only going to get maybe 50% retail back at best. You're more likely to get 40%

>>52036738
Better than 100% not using them

>>52035344
how much do you have, and would you be able to ship to Canada before the end of March?

>>52037944
Probably not by end of March. I've got a lot of shit going on and this is one of the things I'm gauging to reduce clutter.

>>52033802
Yes. It's a pretty huge price tag, but if I think about how much I used to spend on codices / army books and still spend on miniatures it's really not that much in comparison.

>>52035344
May I ask why are you selling them?

>>52040354
Because I have given up hope for trolls.

Basically I've hit the state where nothing PP could do would appease me and at that point, why perpetuate the misery? It's 10 years of wasted time and effort and I figure it's better that someone uses it rather than me throwing it out.

I was planning to wait until LnL for the new steamroller, but I'm not sure I can hold out.

I'm considering quitting the game because the new edition doesn't quite fit me. Is there any other wargame that isn't 40K, isn't a skirmish and is popular? I tend to move a lot so just playing what people play at the lgs isn't a good idea for me.

>>52040394
X-wing.

>>52040458
It is a skirmish though.

>>52040391
Is it really that bad with trolls? There was quite a lot of hype at the start of mk3 about all the warlocks, bomber, mk, bouncer, fenns, champs, war wagon and runeshapers becoming really good.

>>52040394
Infantry non-skirmish games are a rare niche.

Bolt action is pretty popular if you don't mind historical. Armada and Dropfleet also has a niche crowd.

>>52040494
I always thought they are the main thing people think of when you say wargaming. And unfortunately historicals and vehicle-only games don't tickle my fancy.

>>52040492
The problem is that those people don't realize that balance is a two parter. Trolls had ok external balance because Ragnor and Madrak 2 have crutched up the faction.

Troll internal balance is awful. 1/3 of your list is built before you start and there are pieces that are directly competing against each other in role. Trolls are dependent on caster independent buffs to get their stuff rolling and EVERY SINGLE ONE of those , except rush, got gutted in some way or shape.

Random question : Doppler Bark seems completely insane as an effect yet I never seem to see anyone talk about it. What gives?

>>52033897
It's rules are also pretty outdated and filled with errors

Dead game dead thread.

>>52022786

> Legion
> Cryx
> Trolls

Which faction has the most legitimate grievances in Mk3, and who is the saltiest?

>>52041838
>Legitimate Grievances
Trolls, still bottom of the barrel even if external faction balance is a lot better than it used to be. (May be biased, I play trolls.)
>Saltiest
Cryx. I've seen more Cryx players complain than in any of the other factions (although based on the last few threads Troll complaining is starting to pick up speed)

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>>52042095
Hey Snacy, what faction do you play?

>>52041971
Yeah you're probably biased, because a 12/18 defensive statline on your shit combined with some of the best animi in the game makes me think you're a faggot. I play Skorne and I look at your beasts with envy. Well apart from Molik Karn post-errata. He's mine you can't have him.

>>52042095
This is either one of the weirdest inside jokes I've ever seen, or one of the weirdest spambots I've ever seen. I mean, "Snacy"? wtf?

>>52040394
Most non-skirmish games tend to use smaller scale minis, but yeah, they're out there. Dystopian Wars and Dropzone Commander both have decent sized followings. I also run in to a lot of people that still play Epic, despite it being officially "dead" for years.

Unfortunately, any wargame is going to require you to find other people who play it, and every local is different.

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>>52040925
It's hard to apply if your opponent sees it coming. But it's definitely strong. You can do some janky shit with it with Kaya.

>>52041838
All of these are somewhat legitimate as all of them have some really terrible stuff. But most of it it just salt. All of these factions are playable in many different ways with a wide veriety of their options. They all need a bit of help but not significantly more than any other faction.

>>52042286
Thank you.

>>52041838
Trolls probably have the most legitimate grievances, if only because their faction just feels so, so bland now. As to who's the saltiest... hard to say. Legion or Trolls. Cryx players seem to have mostly accepted the new faction and are trying to make the best of it.

>>52040925
It was talked about a great deal in the early months of Mk3, and its uses and limitations explored. It IS a good animus, and can be super powerful in the right circumstances. It's not an auto-include, I think, for basically two reasons. First, its threat range is fairly limited - this isn't Mark Target where you can just run and catch something in the bubble. Second, Circle isn't a faction that usually struggles to hit... high average MAT across the board and a lot of ways to buff it.

The place where I see it as being very interesting is with casters that already have some kind of assassination run and can either use the dog to support or cast it themselves. You may see it showing up a bit with Kaya3, for instance.

>>52042194
After looking up the name, he apparently also does penis *and* bust/hip enlargement, removes herpes and supercharges fertility. Truely, the man can do it all!

>>52042591
Can he make trolls not suck?

>>52042816
Give him a call and find out.

>>52040394
Armada is popular in my meta.

>>52042591
PP should hire him instead of the hacks they have now.

>>52032708
Well, there are few things: sold all my WM/H but still intend to check boards for a while to see if I made the right decision (this far it seems so), frustration over losing a game which I invested time/money and very much enjoyed at mk2 but lost 100% totally interest with mk3 launch and also altruistic (man, I'm such good person ;_;) "warning" for new players that future may not be all that great for PP as it is very possible that peak for this game was reached at mk2 and things will be more or less downhill from now on. Game is not dead in all places but it sure is in many where mk2 was quite popular. And we all like to troll a bit sometimes, don't we?

>>52043024
So you're just bitter and want anyone else to have as little joy in their lives as you? Okay.

>>52041064
ded

>>52043050
That is my motivation, yeah.

>>52043024
What games did people switch to?

I play Infinity, Armada and KDM now, couldn't be happier.

>>52043074
Then would you be so kind as to shit up any of the other threads instead? Or alternatively get your shit sorted out?

>>52043050
I'd be lying if I said there isn't some bitterness involved but that is not the whole point and few forum posts here and there surely don't destroy motivation for other people that much.

>>52043086
Infinity as well and Malifaux, feeling pretty good about those games right now.

>>52043086
>>52043172
At the end of the day, it's just a cycle. I've been in this hobby for decades now. Rules systems come and go. Manufacturers come and go. If privateer manages to survive this wave they're on crashing, they'll be back on top at some point down the line.

The lesson is - always, ALWAYS buy into a minis game for the minis. You'll have those a long time. I've got metal minis from the 80's that I still use as proxy models in various games. The minis you've lovingly assembled and painted will be in your case long after you've forgotten the current rules you're playing even existed.

>>52043501
Can't really agree with that. I wish I could get rid of all of my Warhammer(40k) models with reasonable convenience.

I play WMH because the game and (offline) community are excellent. I do put hours upon hours into painting, but a painted army would be worthless to me if I couldn't play.

With that in mind I'm happy the community is recovering from the fucking mess that was the MK3 release. WMH will die some day, but this is not that day.

>>52043501
True, I think that's a good attitude for this hobby in general.

>>52043172
I really like infinity, would I like malifaux? Seemed crazy complicated.

>>52043628
>I wish I could get rid of all of my Warhammer(40k) models with reasonable convenience.
Its called ebay. Works to get rid of all your WMH models too, its great because then you can switch to a good game.

>>52043680
Oh you're being really clever. I'm happy with WMH, thanks. I'd put my 40k stuff on ebay if there wasn't so much Chinese in it.

>>52043680
>spends time reading and responding to WMHG
>doesn't like game

When the officail forum return up ?

>>52043672
Malifaux basic rules are actually quite simple and clear (and free so you can check them out) however there is a lot of text in Malifaux cards so there will often be some surprises when playing against new crew/models. I personally like cards over dice and alternating activations. I'd say give Malifaux a shot if people are playing in your area.

>>52043628
>I wish I could get rid of all of my Warhammer(40k) models with reasonable convenience.
>I do put hours upon hours into painting, but a painted army would be worthless to me if I couldn't play.
That seems like it makes the hobby a bit of an odd fit for you... since it is, at the end of the day, mostly a hobby with a game attached. You're hardly alone in that though.

Obviously you're of the mindset that the minis are just a tool to enable the game. Which I think is fine, as long as you recognize the investment of time and money for what it is, and try to get the most out of it. It runs completely counter to my approach, where the minis are an end unto themselves, but as they say it takes all kinds.

>>52043672
I'd actually rate Malifaux as being less complicated than infinity. More of the rules in Mali is on the cards, though, as with warmachine.

If you're comfortable with Warmachine's general approach and philosophy, Malifaux won't feel too foreign. They obviously swap cards for dice, but a lot of the underlying logic is the same.

Noob question: Where do I get the stats for units not included in the Command books, assuming I can't into apps due to not owning a smartphone or tablet.

>>52044017
http://battlecollege.org/index.php/Main_Page

They're slowly being updated to the true stats, but it should be good enough for just starting out. The OP should also have pdfs for the card decks, but those wont have any of the new stuff.

>>52042124
And you are mad. Skorne beasts on average have more P+S, higher arm, lower def (but in both cases nothing meaningful will ever miss them), lower speed, easier and cheaper access to free charges and spd buffs, easier and cheaper access to p+s buffs, easier and cheaper access to fury management and more initials. I would take them over trolls any day.

>>52043802
In about an hour, or so they say. I guess it will immediately go back down from bandwith issues, so sane people should probably check it out in a few hours.

>>52043889
>since it is, at the end of the day, mostly a hobby with a game attached
Not really. Modern wargames often manage to balance those two out pretty well. And I wouldn't want it any other way. I like playing and I like painting. This makes wargaming the perfect fit for me.

>>52044084
Sounds like grass really is greener on the other side and the Skorne don't even have grass. I'd love a Mauler or Earthborn in Skorne, not that our beasts are bad. You are selling your beasts, especially DEF12 short.

>>52041838

I main Legion and don't think the faction is in a very bad spot.

Eyeless Sight nerfs were going to happen and saw them coming from a mile away. Losing Machinations of Shadow, 1 Speed on our heavies, and Tenacity, and Saeryn being useful left me a little salty, but I won't be crying rivers of tears over it.

I still think overall the faction is fine, and the fact that it still hits top 3 every couple of tournaments leaves me to believe that I'm not wrong.

>>52043889
Warmahordes is definitely a game first, what are you talking about?

>>52044260
The only issue I have with playing trolls is, at least for most lists, needing to have a mauler and a krielstone.

To be fair, even if something happened so that we didn't need those in lists, I'd at the very least still take a mauler in every list. They'd have to do something so terrible to the mauler that it wouldn't still get taken.

It'd be nice to build without a stone though, and I've tried Madrak3 and don't really like him.

Overall though, I think Trolls are definitely playable, and I've beaten my friend who plays Cygnar every time we play(although he doesn't use storm lances so who am I to say whether I could beat an actual Cygnar force).

>>52044260
Mauler is good, so blatantly good and necessary, it's an auto include.

While the earthborn who shares the same price has nothing going for it that other models can't provide better.

You only like the earthborn because your damage fixer isn't an animus. Earthborn is essentially a 30pt warbeast while what it provides to your army is out done by the bouncer.

>>52045115
>definitely a game first
>every other unit is pointless for anything other than looking neat
>half of the largest centerpiece models are garbage

Yeah, sure

>>52044084
You are underestimating how important the difference between hitting on everything but snake eyes vs hitting on 5s is.

A pumped Khador jack will realistically miss the Troll once with one it's four attacks, while the Skorne beast has to eat all of them pretty much every single time.

>>52045221
Every single bad model in Warmahordes is 10000x more useful on the table than anything underplayed from 40k, so eat shit.

>>52045253
Better than 40k is gaming's lowest bar.

It's so fucking meaningless.

>>52045227
4 on charge, 5 on regular

I just got back from the Americas Team Championship. Didn't do as well as our team had hoped.

But Jason Flanzer got booted off his team for fucking another teammate's wife, and it wasn't my team or wife, so there's that.

>>52045595
Eh

>>52044227
>Modern wargames often manage to balance those two out pretty well.
I'd say WMH is an example of one that balances them rather well. I like both, too! I've just learned to become less attached to the rules specifically, because they're transitory.

That's even more true now with (apparently) monthly updates coming down the tube. For me, what works is to build an army that I like for the sake of the models, fluff, and general playstyle. If specific rules change here and there, I don't let it ruffle me.

>>52045115
Bit of a chicken and egg thing, I think. I mean, they're not giving you pre-painted minis. They don't let you play with cardboard chits. They certainly put a lot of effort into their game design (and you have to, if you want a game worth playing), but I don't think you can argue that Privateer puts any less effort into their fluff or models. If it's a game first for you, that's fine, just recognize that some of the conflicts in the community are there because different people are looking to get different things out of the game.

So. The forums are fucked.

>>52045595
wat

>>52045743
How fucked?

Anybody know, were the Grymkin beta cards supposed to come out today? Or is that down the road a ways still?

>>52045763
See for yourself.

>>52045743
>no faction forums
wtf

>>52045763
No faction or general forums.

Meh. They'll add a general forum after they get tired of people posting off-topic shit in the Tactics forum, but the faction forums were cancer.

Grymkin concepts are stupid as fuck, what is this? Malifaux?

>>52045799
If you want to hear every possible viewpoint on the "Grymkin are Malifaux" question, just dig back through the last couple weeks of archives. Everything you're thinking has been said, I promise you.

>>52045772
>>52045780
>>52045791
So they really get rid of all that, huh? Kind of unfortunate but I guess there was a lot of undeniably bad and annoying shit that went on in the faction forums.

>>52045771
I assume they come out on the CID forums. Which you need to register to see. And the registration needs to be manually approved. Maybe I'll be pleasantly wrong.

>>52045791
I dunno, maybe? That, or they'll just kill any "off topic" discussion... which is kind of what I expect, given their official statement last week.

I was actually kind of surprised to even see the Tactics and List forums - those are going to be anarchy without the faction separation.

>>52045839
Right, true. I expect they'll be reposted here roughly 4 seconds after the first people get on there, though.

>>52045864
We can only hope. I want to see those piggies and how degenerate they can be.

>>52045839
And it's a completely separate forum -- with completely separate forum software -- from the main ones.

File: Grymkin Theme Forces.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

ask and ye shall receive

File: Grymkin for CID 3-6-17.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>52045904

>>52045904
>>52045921
Praise be. You have my thanks.

>>52045921
Holy lolcat. Their lesser beast is a Crabit. Like a crab rabbit. Which is an internet meme from back when handcoding a web page about your dog and posting it on angelfire was considered a pretty cool thing to do, for those not old enough to recall. And here I thought "Skin and Moans" was a stupid name for a model... silly me.

>>52045791
>implying they weren't there for containment.

Yeah, let the bitch rain pour down.
I wonder if my account is still banned

Grymkin are Hot Topic the Faction.

PP just made 4chan more official than their own forums

"Hey, thanks for posting here. There is no longer a general discussion forum or faction-specific forums on the official forums. We encourage you to visit the myriad unofficial, player-run sites and pages that exist online outside of our official forums.”

>>52027323
Anon I'm from around the Cork area. Is the hobby near non existent? Always wanted to take up mini wargaming but kinda got put off by a few friends telling me a few stories of playing autistics in other realms cork and even how the store manager can ban you if he goes on a power trip. What always stopped me from taking it up isn't so much the effort in making the army but I have no idea what the meta in cork is actually like and the expensive prices for toy soldiers.

Whats your take on all this?

>>52046195
You want to just check out your local scene and see what's up. Any tabletop game needs a good community to be enjoyable. Go to some hobby shops near you, see what people are playing, and talk to some actual players. If you're interested in something, ask for a demo game, get someone to show you the ropes.

Bottom line - people first. If you can find some cool people to game with, you'll have fun.

>>52046182
>hey guys, let's destroy our community
I wonder what were they thinking when they made this decision.

>>52045921
Hmm.

Cage Rager - It's... a Crusader chassis. Like, exactly: SPD 4 STR 11 MAT 6 DEF 10 ARM 19 32 boxes. Needs access to a corpse token economy to function. Fortunately Grymkin have such a thing. PS17 on a 14 point warbeast, while not necessarily overpowered, is... a lot compared to existing Hordes factions.

Cask Imp - Lot of damage per point cost, but a *max* 10" threat range.

Crabit - Mediocre Shield Guard.

Death Knell - Going to be tricky keeping a huge base alive with how close it needs to be to the action.

Dread Rots - These guys are amazing.

Frightmare - It's a shittier-but-cheaper Teraph. Meh.

Glimmer Imp - Solid force multiplier. Rules are overly cutesy and make it pretty anti-Hordes biased, unfortunately.

Gorehound - Seems pretty crazy good for the points, albeit limited spam potential.

Hollowmen - I thought these guys were supposed to have recursion? Without it they're pretty shit.

(more)

>>52045904
>>52045921
Am I blind or was there nothing about the arcana?

>>52045921
>>52046321

Lady Karianna Rose - Autoinclude as best as I can tell.

Lantern Man - Ahh, here's the Hollowmen recursion. I don't see any reason to ever take Hollowmen without this CA. They seem playable with it, but not broken.

Lord Longfellow - Broken? Credible assassination threat in a 6 point solo with... odd anti-shooting tech.

Mad Caps - 4 points for Stumbling Drunk on your caster. Worth its points into infantry-heavy lists. Seems good.

Murder Crows - Don't Cryx have the same thing and no one plays them?

Neigh Slayers - People were scared of "cavalry with armor piercing lances". These look overpriced to me.

Piggybacks - Another hyped unit, but I'm not sure these are playable (pending changes to Steamroller and objective play, as they're very much objective holders). Expensive, low damage output (per point cost), and at ARM 13 (even with Impervious Flesh) they need Shield Wall up all the time or they just die. Amusing (and potentially really good depending on SR17 rules) with Mad Caps.

Rattler - Seems really good but not broken.

Skin & Moans - Another heavy that lives or dies by the corpse token economy.

(more)

>>52046256
Are you the same anon? there's only two game stores in my end of the country to my knowledge. I'd have to travel. But i'll keep the people first in mind. thank you anon.

>>52046545
By "the same thing" do you mean Blood Witches? Because the Murder Crows actually seem remarkably similar to Skorne's Bloodrunners to me. Pathfinder, AD, Stealth, Gang are all things they share. BRs have one more DEF, MAT with Apparition, Reposition 3, and Anatomical. Crows have Prey and one more PS base. Same FA and point cost, too.

>>52046705
Oh, and the Crows have 1 more SPD.

>>52046664
>Are you the same anon? there's only two game stores in my end of the country to my knowledge. I'd have to travel. But i'll keep the people first in mind. thank you anon.
In that case, you need to just find people that play. Just because there are no stores doesn't mean there's no players. But the stores might still be a good starting point.

It's also possible to just be the seed that starts a community locally, if you have some like-minded friends and are willing to put in a little legwork. But I'd do a little searching first.

>>52046545

The Child - Abuse. Force Hammer. Nothing more needs to be said.

The Dreamer - Phantasms would be much better if they had incorporeal; is that a misprint? Solid spell list.

The Heretic - Godlike Power makes a lot of matchups weird. Fury and Gallows are both awesome.

The King of Nothing - Burning Ash on a Fury 8 caster. Scything Touch is awfully nice, too.

The Wanderer - Not sure about this guy; he wants to be closer to the action than his statline really supports, lacks a damage buff and really wants to upkeep and cast a 3-cost spell on 6 Fury. Crossroads + Beacon gives him a nice threat range, but then he... dies?

Trapperkin - Too cutesy. Not enough damage on its backstab to be a real threat.

Twilight Sisters - Ahh, now we see how to make Piggybacks good. Solid even without them for recursion.

Witchwood - Seems useful enough without being broken. Kinda think this is at a weird postion; it has too much damage potential to be any cheaper, but it's not going to see its full potential very often.

Old Witch 3 - Seems pretty good, with built-in recursion and Windstorm (not to mention Boundless Charge and Curse of Shadows) she's going to run infantry spam in a pretty terrifying manner.

>>52046321
>>52046545
Worth pointing out that these being beta rules, they may have intentionally over-tuned them a bit with the understanding that most/all may need to be reigned in during testing. With unpolished rules, it's sort of expected that a lot of them will miss the mark.

>Lady Karianna Rose - Autoinclude as best as I can tell.
This one jumped out at me as well. Seems like an extreme example of a keystone model... wonder why they decided to make it a character?

>>52046530
I don't see it either. Not sure if the Anon didn't post it, or PP simply hasn't released them yet.

>>52045921
>Cask imp
I...


I'll spam these.

File: 34131_CarrionThralls_WEB.jpg (348KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

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>>52046705
I was thinking Carrion Thralls personally, same speed and defensive stats, and Gang (on fewer models) vs. CMA.

They're better than Carrion Thralls (I think), but I don't think they're better *enough* to really be played.

>>52046846
I don't think Karianna Rose is any more overpowered than junior or the choir, just seems to be something in every list.

Without having seen the arcana, Longfellow is the only thing in there I think is broken (although Dread Rots come close, and Gorehounds are amazing per-point (but ultimately limited by Fury management)). Old Witch 2 running Piggybacks is going to ask scenario problems a lot of lists can't answer.

Seems pretty decent overall.

>>52045595
seems untrue

>>52046964
>Longfellow is the only thing in there I think is broken
Not seeing it. I mean, cool? Yeah. I'd play him... but he's not breaking anything. He looks like a character Pistol Wraith to me. At 6 points a solo needs to do some serious work - and this guy is only RNG 8 on his guns. Like a pistol wraith, I can see him doing basically one cool thing each game, then getting killed. It's usually not enough.

He's got assassination potential if you can get him there, but that's easier said than done... and his damage output is very condtional. He only goes double weapon master against damaged character models. The rest of the time, it's just a couple RAT 7 POW 10's.

>>52046904
Ah, yeah, I see. I understand the concern. They didn't really stand out to me, either. I'm sure there may be some where for them to fit. Fury from the Heretic stands out, at least.

>>52046964
Longfellow has quite a short range to threaten casters.

>>52046882
I am concerned. A lot of the potential power of the faction sounded like it could be tied up in those.

>>52047045
If I had to pick one thing that looks potentially busted to me, it'd be Dreadrots. Tough weaponmasters that are FA U and cost 7/12... yikes. Their defensive stats are bad, but you can bring 60 of them... with a couple casters having very good delivery methods. King's got a cloudwall, Old Witch has windstorm, etc.

>>52047045

If you can get something to chip the caster first, you're looking at averaging over 18 damage into ARM 15.

>>52047147

15" is a pretty big exclusion zone for a caster.

Maybe "broken" overstates it, but I think he's autoinclude good.

>>52047181
Yep. Infantry swarms are coming back.

>>52047195
"Broken" definitely overstates it, as does "auto-include". Like I said above, he's good. But 6 point solos HAVE to be good to even be considered. Being able to kill an already-damaged caster (assuming no ranged defensive tech, mind) at 15" is not auto-include territory.

I made the pistol wraith comparison and I think it holds. Pistol Wraiths with Denny1 are one of those things you look at and say "well that obviously breaks the game". But take it from experience - the real table rarely conforms to your theorymachine ideal. Lots of casters have ranged defenses built in. Those that don't often bring some in list, or won't let you get close enough. And Longfellow himself has no defensive tech outside of Reciprocate.

>>52046885
>>Cask imp
Feels like there's a lot of vaguely Cryxy stuff in there. Cask Imp = Scrap Thrall 2.0?

Except then you have a bit of GW-style randomness built in. And you can get a little Cask Imp generator unit in the mad caps, to make more of them. How delightfully skavenesque.

>>52047632
See, you're saying big words.


I'm thinking explosive drunk keg.

>>52047632
I agree with the Cryx-y stuff. Grymkin is looking, rules-wise, to be almost exactly what I wanted out of Cryx in MK3.

File: IMG_20170306_153228.jpg (345KB, 1152x2048px) Image search: [Google]

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1/2

File: IMG_20170306_153230.jpg (227KB, 1152x2048px) Image search: [Google]

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>>52047860
2/2

>>52047831
>See, you're saying big words.
Sorry, can't help it. Just how my brain works.

Nothing wrong with "explosive drunk keg". Gets the point across nicely.

>>52047860
>>52047902
>meme-tier "faction" of shitty malifaux rejects
>TRUMP


HOW WILL DRUMFPFY RECOVER?!?!?!?!??!

File: imperatus.png (402KB, 626x728px) Image search: [Google]

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>>52022786

> Love Retribution lore
> Love Retribution playstyle
> Love Moros and Imperatus
> Hate the appearance of literally every other single Heavy they have, and 90% of the Warcasters

What do I do lads.

>>52047902
So that means Tantrum also gives your warlock an extra Fury next turn, then, right?

>>52048149
1) Try an alternate color scheme
2) Conversion city

I think a lot of that conversion look is the studio scheme, honestly. I've seen some alt colorschemes that looked really good. Grab yourself a battlebox and see what you can do with it.

>People thinking Longfellow is there just to threaten casters and solos
Nigger no, he can be a serious problem for a character warnoun too. Everyone underestimates the strength of putting damage onto something. You don't always have to kill a heavy in one activation you faggots.

>>52045343
depends on caster as well

>>52047860
>>52047902
OK, so what's up with the non-trump cards? Previews said each caster which would be able to pick whichever minor arcana they wanted - but each of these are marked as belonging to a specific caster.

>>52048344
Nah, definitely. Longfellow's also a pretty excellent solo hunter. He's definitely got uses, and will have plenty of opportunities in most games to pay for himself, directly or indirectly.

But he is expensive for a solo, and he is fragile. So it's not all upside. I think you'll definitely find room for him in some lists, but I don't think you'll see him in EVERY list. Some lists don't have a single character model outside of the caster. On the other hand, you might run in to an Ocean's Eleven style list and be laughing all the way to the bank.

>>52048389
They said that each would come with one Trump and two lesser. I guess that's meant to show which arcana would be packaged with each lock when bought? Maybe figuring out how to do it in War Room was too hard or something.

>>52048530
>he is fragile
Literally wrong. All solos are fragile because a single stiff hit will knock them out. The only defensive stat that matters on a solo is DEF, which Longfellow has in spades.

>>52048544
Well it's not that... no cards are being packaged with anything, period, anymore. So what's the significance of the names? Did they drop the idea of being able to choose?

>>52048626
It could be. But I'm fairly certain that somewhere they said that each Defier came with certain arcana even though all but the trumps could be used by any of them.

>>52048598
His DEF is good, but what do you think that is going to save him from? ARM 12 and 5 boxes means it doesn't even take a stiff hit. An electroleap drops him on an average roll. Almost any boosted blast damage kills him easily. Keep in mind this isn't a GMCA or an Eiryss - this guy has to get within 8" of the enemy to do his thing.

He will usually get to attack once thanks to his SPD (as long as you don't dangle him out front), but he will almost never get a 2nd turn. Something he can do really well, I think, is act as a bait model for the arcana that require your opponent to kill something of yours. Because if you don't kill him, he will become a nuisance, guaranteed.

>>52048771
Yeah, now that you say it, I remember something like that too. So it could just be a holdover. Definitely important to get an answer for... some of the minor arcana seem to stand out as overly-strong, assuming you get a choice.

>>52048530
Forget Longfellow, just take two Trapperkin. I love these guys. Anybody else notice that Trapdoor has no activation limitations on it (other than not being able to chain trap doors)? There's almost nothing an opponent can do to stop these from being delivered.

>>52048994
Return of the Dirt Dolphin.

>>52049047
>Return of the Dirt Dolphin.
Grymkin = Cryx 2.0

>>52048846
Clarification would definitely be nice. I could see it being that they wanted to try giving each a particular repertoire because, yeah, most of these seem MUCH better than I was expecting from "lesser feats." Limiting who gets what would ameliorate the impact of that somewhat, I guess, but it's not what we were promised.

Is ConflictAnon putting Grymkin on there yet?

>>52049089
Exactly. I'm looking forward to trying them this weekend. Probably the piggies with King of Nothing or Old Witch.

>>52049148
>but it's not what we were promised
It's not, but at the same time I can see balancing all ten against each other being crazy hard to balance. Like, looking at these... there's a lot of really strong effects available. A number of these go well beyond being just "mini-feats", as you say.

>>52049171
I think it's going to be The Wanderer for me. Amusingly, if there's one that looks EXACTLY like a Malifaux Master concept translated to warmachine, it's this guy. He's got his own unique markers he gets to drop, support effects everywhere, weird movement shenanigans, etc. Very much a finesse caster, which are always my favorites.

>(Makeda 3) Makeda & the Exalted Court [+24]
- the Exalted Court
- Molik Karn [19]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Archidon [10]
- Cyclops Savage [7]
- Aptimus Marketh [5]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

Played this today into a battlegroup heavy (see: bad matchups) Tanith list and came out smelling of roses. Makeda herself took out Megalith and Loki. Sadly Karn died to a primal Loki, but he'd been a hero all game until then. Half of my opponent's shit just couldn't deal with the 2 tough units spamming the board, while Karn and Makeda threatened to kill anything nearby. The TyCom did so much work it was insane. My opponent had to commit a Pureblood to take him out, which lost him the Pureblood next turn.

>>52045743
That fucking "Extreme Colossal Wrestling" forum. We need to keep it empty as a monument to PP's folly.

>>52048626
In the primecsst hey specifically said each caster was coming with two of the arcana cards so that once you bought all 5 locks you had 10 to chose from.

>>52049771
Here's a link to PP saying this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism

>>52049771
That's some xwing shit right there.

>>52049771
Meanwhile WHAC users just get it free.

Is it just me or is Old Witch 2 really shitty and boring?

>>52049861
I love whac as much as the next guy but it seems like nothings been updated for a while.

>>52049827
Depends. They might have been talking about giving physical cards so you could have something fancy and official looking while still providing them free online. They probably assume they won't have to eratta the arcana that much.

Regardless, not labeling the cards to show which one is the trump is odd. Haven't gotten to the locks in the pdf yet, does it say on their card?

>>52049783
Actually giggled. Still love PP tho

>>52050080
Not in the PDFs, someone posted phone pictures a while ago on here. The normal ones denote a lock while the trumps say the lock and "TRUMP."

>>52050061
I think it's just you. She's going to be a monster in Khador, with 1 cost Boundless Charges with an 11" range, and an AOE4 Blind gun

>>52050061
Not in Khador, no. The spelslinging, denial and recursion she brings are very rare for us.
And we have the sac pawn theme to make her huge base work.

>>52050380
"Carrion Crows" is nice and all but that gun needs a better/dumber name. Bird Cannon? Bird Blast? Murder Bomb?

>>52050380
>>52050061
Oh and the gun doesn't have to trigger on direct hits or even hitting an enemy model - at least not yet. Hopefully one of the things that gets changed

>>52050380
Explain to me how she will be a monster. Except on feat she can't BOTH have 11" range and COST 1.

So otherwise your COST 1 Boundless Charge comes at the expense of Future Sight, which you absolutely want on the turn you're sending in your jacks so you're still spending 2 for Boundless. The boosted magic attack rolls on her feat is basically pointless since her only magic attack is Scourge which is COST 4 and will never be cast. I would like her crow gun more if it had Reload [1]. She's still only RAT 5 so if you need it somewhere specific you're shooting your own dudes in the back unless you're targeting enemy heavies.

Curse Of Shadows and Reconstruct is actually really good, I admit but she seems a bit all over the place and I'm sad she didn't carry over Field Of Talons somehow.

>>52050595
The feat benefits Curse of Shadows, too. And her feat allows boosted Scourge into boosted Curse of Shadows with 18" of threat. Those two, Boundless Charge, and a Blind gun are all fantastic pieces to any number of assassination runs or enablers for maiming multiple important enemy models. Especially when the feat allows all of those to happen at once. I do think, however, things should played and shaken out to see how she'll really end up. Looks good to me on paper, at least, though.

>>52050595
Well, feat, yeah. Future sight is more for guns than MAT7 jacks, it's generally pretty worthless for melee since you can buy an extra attack for the same amount, so unless you're going after the caster or shooting on the approach I wouldn't use that. Reload on an AOE4 Blind attack would be straight broken, every other effect on an AOE pretty much universally requires a direct hit, usually against an enemy model.

>>52050698
I was misreading her Arcane Machine rules and assumed they were like Zerkova's and only effected one spell a turn.

Okay, shes not as bad as I first though. I'm still not particularly enthused about her though. I was hoping she'd be a bit more than "charge Behemoth through a unit for assassination".

>>52050595
On the turn you send jacks you want cheap Boundless and Curse.

Before that you Windstorm+Future sight and shoot on approach.

The feat turn is a real assassination threat. I'd save it for that. Double Scourge at 18", one damage boosted plus whatever else you have that shoots the knocked down caster. Or Scourge+Curse. Or Scourge caster, Curse the screen and Boundless the jack to kill him. Future sight is also very good for assassination as proven by Haley2.

Also she's almost Karchev-tier in survivability. Maybe even better since no crippled systems or knockdown/stationary/etc.

Also she can wreck stuff herself, Curse makes her pseudo mat 7 pow17, should be able to one round an arm 18 heavy if it comes to that.

>>52049278
I want Sacrifice on King of Nothing with the piggies. It's alright to dream, isn't it?

>>52050424
>Murder Bomb
Damnit that's not half bad.

Clarification by Privateer on the CID forums : Each caster must take their one Trump Arcana and any two non-Trump Arcana. All non-Trump Arcana are part of a generic pool and not associated with any specific caster.

>>52051228
>>52050972
Oh joyous day, dreams do come true! Really looking forward to messing around with the Grymkin.

On another note, what do people think of the themes? I've been looking at Bump in the Night for King of Nothing and piggies. Trying to create something using Tough infantry, decent ARM, Twilight sisters recursion, clouds, AD, Stealth, and a few cheap Shield Guards in the Crabits to get as much scenario pressure as possible.

>>52050770
>effected
Affected, anon.

'Effected' basically means to "put into action", where affected is to change an existing thing.

For example, this post will not effect any change in your misuse of the word.

You are welcome, though.

>>52051228
Yeah this is gonna get nerfed real fuckin' hard.

>>52051470
Definitely. Just look at Sacrifice. And Ruin is a free Arcane Vortex that is also Purification.

But let us live the dream while it is still alive.

>>52051470
Man some of those are almost feat level and they get three of them.

>>52052129
The fact that you get to choose them AFTER seeing what your opponent's list is will be the first thing to get changed. Like holy shit what the fuck. Also:

King of Nothing > Wanderer > Dreamer > Heretic > Child

The only problem with the King of Nothing is his inbuilt arcana is kind of shit. His spell list is gross, he's fury 8, and we know Grymkin have an arc node. Like holy shit, Burning Ash on a fury 8 caster? It could be his only fucking spell and he'd be good.

>>52052236
Yeah, I'm still trying to wrap my head around Taste of Ashes. There appears to be no range limit to it. Heavy on heavy it's no big deal. But if my Crabit shield guards on the approach and dies I can kill the d3 nearest enemy single wound models from any distance? That's the best I can get out of it short of some lesser/light spam or something.

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>>52051228
Arcana are chosen face up, right? Please say yes.

>>52052236
>you get to choose them AFTER seeing what your opponent's list is
>when shit like Ruin and Shroud exist
RIP

>>52052334
I think they said in podcast that they were originally secret. But the trap card bullshit was really demoralizing so they changed it almost immediately. And I agree that the "after list selection" shit is next. And then they'll start nerfing the arcana themselves.

>>52052291
Fuck whatever your plans are just advance a wall of the cheap weapon masters behind four Burning Ashes and have Ashes to Ashes ready to clear any chaff.

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>>52048149
Is there some particular feature you hate? I'm not a fan of the setting-mandated stumpy legs, but aside from that I got used to their looks pretty quickly.

Or you could just build Griffon spam and Rahn lists.

>>52052380
By "wall" do you mean "70 points gets me 60 of these sumbitches how did they not notice this?" Cause that is admittedly some funny shit. I mostly play with friends, though, and I want to keep them as friends. They complained enough when I played Cryx in MK2 with Gaspy1 and one of each Bane unit. I don't want to hear the whiny bullshit that'll come out of them if I try that.

That's why I'm going to use piggies. Maybe they are good. Maybe not. But at least there won't be much initial whining. I do wonder, though, can you channel spells you cast that aren't on your turn? Because Rattle Bones does last one round.

>>52049152
He has wife and kids, give him time.

>>52051445
you people still exist in 2017? I thought we got rid of you in the early 2000s

Dread Rots seem way too fucking good for 12 points

They should be 13 or 14 points

>>52022903
Fluff wise, probs Zerkova, 'cause I've liked the "Mad Scientist/Wizard" trope, alongside the ends justify the means mentality she seems to have. Another contender is Karchev, fucking love that he wanted to keep serving after being nearly destroyed, so they just put him into a warjack.

I never used to go to the forum because I always thought they were shit. I'm begining to think both sides were shitty tho.

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?270252-Creepy-Card-2-Electric-Boogaloo

Trying to make a Child list, this is what I've got so far.


The Child +29
Theme: Dark Menagerie
-Skin and Moans 0
-Skin and Moans 1
-Cage Rager 15
-Rattler 24
-Rattler 33
-Gorehound 39
-Gorehound 45
-Gorehound 51
-Crabits x 2 58
-Crabits x3 free
Death Knell 71
Lady Karianna Rose 75
Gremlin Swarm free
Gremlin Swarm free

>>52053185
>+1 whole point! The absolute madman!

>>52052236
>Like holy shit, Burning Ash on a fury 8 caster?
That he gets to cast for free on an enemy turn if he kills one of your cheap jamming lessers? Yeah, kind of strong.

>>52054963
Yes, it matters

>>52054210
I don't get it.

>>52027219
QQ, our faction isn't OP and annoying and no fun for anyone else to play against anymore, ahbuh.

Question for the more graphical design savvy anons. What fonts do PP use on their cards?

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I am sure I am missing something here, but beyond the neat gun and an okay spell list Old Witch 2 seems fairly meh.
I mean, the costs of her spells makes Arcane Calibrations more or less mandatory, I feel.

>>52056424
The ranged attack alone is bonkers. Add to that the amazing spell list and you get quite the potent package.

>>52056424
Realistically how many of those spells do you see yourself casting on any given turn where it would tax your 7 stack? You'll have to be so retardedly close with a huge base it's not worth it. Future Sight and +5 RNG will be useful though

>>52056462
The spell list is okay. Aside from Curse of Shadows it feels like it should be Zerkova2s spell list.

>>52056779
Her worst spell is probably Windstorm. And that is saying something.

>>52056787
Scourge is shit as well. I don't see myself ever casting it.

>>52056806
It grants you free assassinations on feat turn. That's really good.

>>52056814
Except not really. You still have to pay 3 and probably a 4th to boost it so a majority of your stack. You also still have to either upkeep or cast Curse, cast Boundless and fuel a jack.

So you're either going all in and hoping it works or playing it safe.

That said, Beast 09 is probably OW2s best friend as he has Reach and is amazing at murdering warcasters so you don't need Scourge.

>>52056885
They're already boosted. So it's 3 for Scourge, 2 for curse and 1 for Boundless, with 1 to spare. But yes, you could probably go without Scourge and just Blind them.

That said, Scourge can also be nice against Lances or similar units if they need to clump up.

>>52055889
>I'm a bad player but I don't want to admit it so I accuse the opponent of being overpowered instead

>>52052372
I think they'll skip to nerfing the arcana before they change the after seeing your opponent's list part. They want to avoid (almost) untriggerable choices, so they won't make you pick before seeing your opponent unless absolutely neccessary.

>>52057399
>they won't make you pick before seeing your opponent unless absolutely neccessary
Other factions have to pick their shit before they know their opponent's pick.

>>52050061
Maybe boring, but definitely not shitty. Windstorm in Khador is a straight GFY to any kind of ranged list. That spell was brutal on Krueger, but at least with Circle, if you can get to grips with them you can kill them. In Khador, it just becomes "play Khador's game on Khador's terms".

Do we actually have a solid shot of Old Witch 2? Not just half-glimpses and shit wreathed in shadow?

>>52052236
>The fact that you get to choose them AFTER seeing what your opponent's list is will be the first thing to get changed
Maybe.. although that idea seems kinda core to what they're trying to do. They may just nerf down the strongest ones so it's less ridiculous.

>>52054963
>>52055641
+1 or +2 points can be a really big deal if your main concern is something being spammed.

>>52052236
Agree in general terms, but I'm not 100% sure the King is on top. On the face of it, he's got a lot going on (and the weaponmaster spam behind a cloudwall is going to be one of the first things to try), but I'm not sure it's enough to get him the top spot. As you say, his trump seems pretty lame, so that good spell list has to be what carries him.

For my money, I expect the Dreamer to be top of the pops. She just seems like she has a bit of everything. Her trump is one of the better ones, her spell list and personal abilities are flexible and strong, and she's got those phantasms. The phantasms aren't individually amazing, but creating free models is always a strong mechanic.

After that, I'm with you. Wanderer is very strong but counterable, Heretic is basically this faction's Stryker2 (although he does have probably my favorite trump), and the Child is just... meh.

Here's a question - why would you EVER take Skin&Moans? I get that he can theoretically become pretty strong with Death Powered, but that's a big condition. What are you supposed to do, hide them down in the backfield until something else can pass them corpses? On the approach, it's a 15 point beast that has ARM 16 and 28 boxes. There are melee LIGHTS that can one round this guy with minimal support.

I guess the question is really "what am I missing?" Like, is the theoretical ARM 19, P+S 19 beast you could have worth the amount of babysitting required to create it?

>>52058253
>Babysitting
Nigger you've got infantry that hoover up corpses and throw them at the rest of your army.

>>52058253
It is not.

Doesn't matter much anyway, because you're taking 50 weapon masters.

>Average fury in the new faction is 7
That's some top balance right there.

>>52058306
power creepypasta

>>52058306
Honestly, I prefer 7 as the average period. 5 focus/fury is a mistake in my opinion, which leaves 6 as the low bar and 8 as the high.

>>52058285
>Assuming your opponent is going to play into your incredibly obvious trap
Trust me, as someone who played Terminus regularly - opponents are not usually kind enough to just be like "oh, I heard you like corpse tokens, so I got a big pile of them for you to gobble up". Sometimes, you get to live the dream, but even then the payoff isn't that great. You just got a decent heavy for 15 points. Woo-hoo.

>>52058288
>Doesn't matter much anyway, because you're taking 50 weapon masters.
It's going to matter after the first revision cycle when dreadrots get reigned in. Then people will notice the faction has only one decent heavy, and it's a hybrid support beast.

>>52058253
Just bring it with Death Knell. Force them to kill your infantry screen (because weaponmaster), scoop up the corpses, hand them to S&M. You can power up two or three S&M's from T2 - T4, no problem.

>>52045921

Huh, new scrapjack is a battle engine rather than a warjack. I wasn't honestly expecting that due to what it was before.

>>52058511
>>52058592
This plus a couple of crabits may go a long way.

>>52058253
Death knell + hollow men/dread shots. Ignore infantry - get shot/charged by wms. Don't ignore infantry - Death knell power up the beasts.

>>52058779
The crabits are going to show up in a LOT of lists. They're a truly compelling beast choice. That and the the Gorehounds... you know what's nice? Six point Raeks. That's what the world needs. BTW what does that model look like that it's got reach on its bite attack?

>>52049152

Todayish.

Also looking for clarification on how Arcana works, I know you get your caster's trump card, but when you pick the other two, do you pick them at game start or list creation?

>>52059024
They're picked after list selection, before deploying models. Not sure if it's before or after ADR.

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>>52058967
Like this.

>>52059024
It's not part of the list build. You get to pick them at the beginning of the game. For the purpose of Conflict Chamber, you can just leave them out.

One quick thought - it might be worth creating some kind of separate compartment for beta test models. Somehow make it obvious to all that, no, these are not legal models for regular play (and maybe ease maintenance for yourself, since they are probably going to be updated pretty rapidly).

>>52059110

Yeah, that's the plan; I've got a "pre-release" setting, and I'm going to add "CID" as an option to it, so you can generate lists with a warning, but it will stop you from adding CID stuff to tournament submissions and such (which is coming relatively soon as I'm integrating the stuff I did for ATC into the general site)

Speaking of CC, if you haven't done it yet, the print button (and ctrl-p) now prints Steamroller record sheets.

>>52059071
Where's that concept art from? I don't think I'd seen it before. More importantly - is there more someplace? I feel like there's a lot of things we haven't actually seen.

>>52059142
The forums. The rules section of the cid forums as concept descriptions and a piece of art for almost every grymkin model.>>52059142

>>52059165
Gotcha. Guess I've got to get on there today. Do the Neigh Slayers actually have a concept that does any kind of justice to that silly name? WTH do small based cavalry look like?

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>>52059303
Yes.

Grymkin up on Conflict Chamber.

>>52059370
That looks even worse than expected.

>>52059370
ohhhhh... wow. They topped the pumpkin head thing. I was not expecting that.

A while back, a guy I met had done a conversion for the WH ogre kingdoms army, where he made cavalry out of the little silly goblins they had... with like, goblins riding other goblins, and some mounted on chickens and pigs and crap like that, cooking pots for helmets and so on. And now we're going to have official models that are sillier than the silliest silly-ass conversions I've ever seen in my life. Fascinating.

>>52059138
Just be aware that CID might require you making additional entries for the same model, as existing models can go through CID aswell.

>>52059491
Yeah, CC already supports that; models are keyed solely on their ID, so I can have CID and non-CID versions of the same model, but it only really matters if the CID changes the point cost (or battlegroup points) of the model.

>>52059429
>>52059518
I'm probably an idiot but how do I access the Grymkin on CC? It looks like there's stuff at the bottom that I cannot scroll down to.

>>52059518
I think the other Anon's point was that using a separate ID for CID models might introduce MORE overhead than just creating, say, a 2 version system. Like, if you're in CID mode, and winterguard infantry are in CID this month, you want the whole Khador package mirrored from the core system, with just that one change.

I'm not of course looking at the internals of your system, so I'm just guessing. But it might be worth looking at doing something like adding a CID Override flag to all entries (maybe with a pointer to another ID for the data). There's basically only 3 states - models are legal and unchanged in CID, models have a different cost in CID, and models are ONLY legal in CID (because they're new). And then when new models flip to released, you just have one entry to change.

>>52059637
At the moment, zoom out (ctrl + mouse wheel down or control + minus). I'll fix the faction list not scrolling soon; I've recently redone a lot of the scrolling behavior, and that *should* have triggered the whole page scrolling.

>>52059703
Oh, cool. Thanks.And thanks for all the great work, too. I was already getting tired of writing Grymkin lists out by hand.

>>52059703
All hail ConflictAnon, hero of the masses!

>>52059370
Wow... those are bad.

>>52059989
They are certainly something special.

Grymkin theme lists added to Conflict Chamber.

I have some concern that the single Crabit as a theme benefit in the Dark Menagerie list may be wonky, but I haven't been able to break it with current testing.

>>52059637
>>52059864

Should be fixed now; after reload, the faction list should scroll properly.

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I have concerns.

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>>52060575
Yeah. I expect Dread Rots to gain a point or two and to stop being FA U. That or they go to shit some other way. Weapon Master is really good but they could also trade it for +2 POW or Brutal Charge.

>>52060657
Holy shit I just realized they're cheaper (per model) in min units.

Yeah, that shit is going to get fixed.

>>52060657
I know it's been discussed to death, but why is anything (new) made to be FA U, ever? What the heck does that bring to the table? Nobody actually WANTS to buy and paint 70 dreadrot models. How does the game benefit from that even being a thing?

I get making some past theme list beneficiaries, like Doom Reavers, have a high FA so as not to invalidate older armies. That's fine. But this is a new faction, a clean slate. There are so many "problem" models that only ever become a problem because they open the door to spamming them.

>>52061114
>but muh lit building freedom
It's so they can make money

Heh, just realized the murder crows are just dudes with birds for heads (or hats?), and not actual birds. OOOooooOOOOooo spooky.

>>52061114
Conjecture is the best we can do because I really doubt PP will ever come out and say, "Despite the problems spam has introduced in the past, we in no way foresaw how FA U on this cheap WM master unit could have possibly been an issue."

>>52061183
>It's so they can make money
I have my doubts. Thing is, very few people ACTUALLY play the spam. The internet loses its collective mind about any theoretical broken list, of course, but how many of the wacky spam lists do you actually see in the wild? The overwhelming majority of players I know build lists from the collection they have, only adding new models when time and budget allow.

Dismissing a couple specific theme lists that really captured the imagination of specific players (thinking of Fist and WW here), I can count the number of actual spam lists I've been across the table from probably on one hand. I doubt any actual revenue generated is that significant... certainly not compared to making a quality game that will continue to attract new players.