>the party is facing a sorceress wearing nothing but a bikini

>>51964229
>Obligatory
Have you tried not playing Pathfinder?

>>51964457
I'm not. I'm playing D&D 5e.

>>51964494
Bounded accuracy makes your scenario impossible in 5.

>>51964516
>mage armor
>18 dex
>some magic item that lets her add Cha to AC
>20 cha
>22 AC
vs
>Fighter chose Defense fighting style and doesn't have a shield
>19 AC

>>51964542
>some magic item that lets her add Cha to AC
Which item is that

>>51964595
The one from the Tiamat adventure.

>>51964595
>>51964607
I wasn't sure where, but I believe it.
>22 AC
>mirror image
>blink
We lost, of course. Two of us died when the other three surrendered.

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>armor class

>>51964607

"Each dragon mask is a legendary wondrous item that reshapes to fit the face and head of a wearer attuned to it."

This is literally a unique item of legend.

>>51964657

What level was this?

>>51964665
7th. I think the DM wanted this level's boss to be similar to Rezmir, but a spellcaster instead of a fighter.

>>51964677
So, did you guys have no AoE?
The DM *does* give you advantage if you flank?

>>51964689
No advantage for flanking, no. And yes we had AOE. But our wizard didn't take Dispel Magic so we couldn't deal with her self-buffs.

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>>51964229

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>>51964772

>>51964694
Well, the real answer may have been to flee for 1 minute and let her burn out both of her defensive spells.

>>51964607
You mean the universally panned one?

>>51964841
While she's hurling cones of cold and hypnotic patterns at us?

>>51964898
Yes. Possibly winning vs. no chance of winning is rather obvious.

>>51964229
You are not playing 5e.
You are playing DM NPC Quest

>>51964942
>Bosses should be easy fights

>>51964923
Good news is she let our cleric stabilize our dying friends. We're playing again tonight so we'll see how things go.

>>51965081

I'm still baffled how you guys lost.
Did you just not have a plan?
Can your wizard not blast?

I mean, how?
Please, describe the fight in whatever detail you can recall.

>>51964898
>7th level party vs. a sorcerer with high stats, 3 turns worth of buffs, a bullshit magic item, and 5th level spells

Your DM was trying to kill you. Your only hope would've been spamming counterspell and trying to dispel all her shit.

But now I'm curious. Did she have all the buffs on when the fight started or did you guys not manage to stop her from applying them?

>>51964965
>boss has a literal item of legend and infinite spells

>>51964694
>>51965081
This should teach your wizard to ALWAYS prepare Counterspell and Dispel Magic

>>51965247
This should teach you that sometimes the GM doesn't want you to win.

>>51964898
A single hypnotic pattern could cause party wipe if you are bunched up.

I fucking hate casters in 5e.

And martials.

...Fuck me, I'll just go back and play 4e.

>>51964229
Armor Class doesn't literally mean how strong your armor is. In fact it's almost the opposite - how well you can avoid taking damage at all. A traditional ghost would have infinite AC against anyone not using magic because you literally cannot give the one two punch to a ghost. A sorc can easily be believed to be far harder to give a solid hit than someone wearing full plate armor, and the miss chance / targetability thing is par for the course.

>>51965111
>we're exploring the dungeon
>get into a fight with a pair of ogres
>easy enough, wizard spends some spells
>ms sexy and evil appears out of thin air
>her stealth was above any of our passive perceptions, and she was invisible, so she gets surprise
>hypnotic pattern
>half the party is incapacitated
>paladin swings at her
>she hits one of her mirror image duplicates
>cone of cold
>wizard drops to 0hp, rest are hurt
>fighter is incapacitated
>cleric rushes to help our dying friends
>ogres keep attacking
>paladin's turn
>she vanishes from existence
>fades back in
>lightning bolt
>rogue goes down
>fighter falls to his knees, begs for mercy
And that's how we got rekt
>>51965247
He's taking both of them next level.
>>51965146
A mage with 5th level spells is only CR 6. I think he thought the magic item made her a fair boss.
Just goes to show how ridiculous hypnotic pattern is.

>>51964229
They ARE squishy. But you have to hit them first.

>>51965687
I was the paladin by the way

>>51965687
So the boss was prebuffed and everything? Sounds like your GM wants you to work for her or go through a prison arc.

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>>51964229
>sorceress wearing nothing a bikini

Was this her? 22 Cha indeed OuO

>>51965762
>So the boss was prebuffed and everything?
Yep. The DM has a specific philosophy--he always plays all his baddies to the absolute max of their abilities. He never pulls any punches. Whether it's kobolds designing their lair to fit them best or casters prebuffing, he insists on not holding back. As a consequence he tends to field lower CR monsters.

>Sounds like your GM wants you to work for her or go through a prison arc.
Both are possible, but I think he expects us to kill/capture her before too long. For all her power and combat skill she seems to be pretty inexperienced when it comes to locking up prisoners. Even forgot to take the wizard's component pouch.

Tonight I'll try and have us break out. My character would rather capture her alive if possible, but I get the feeling the wizard wants her dead. The rogue is smitten with her and wants to redeem her.

>>51965791
Pretty much what I imagined actually, though the DM said dragon sorc. So maybe that with scales.

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>>51964542
>Character with multiple high level stats and an extremely powerful magical item can beat Joe fighter with his basic class abilities.

Water wet, sky blue, OP a fag

I'm just imagining this chick and it's hot as shit.

>>51965870
>not reading the thread, the post

>>51965837
Prebuffing is okay.

Prebuffing and giving her a one of a kind, unique artefact that would probably eat her weak soul for breakfast is stupid.

>>51965977
Not if she's mean't to be a serious boss in the campaign.

>>51966017
If the GM isn't gonna pull punches then he is a hypocrite. Either kill the party or make things even in a fight, don't wipe the floor then show mercy.

>>51965977
Honestly depends, it's easy enough if she's the BBEG and epic-class.

>>51966053
Not him but what if she wanted them alive? If she's not going to lose anyway then not showing her full abilities is actually the smart thing to do while not pulling any punches.

>>51965977
>>51966017
>>51966053
I mean, the whole party seemed to enjoy it. And we're eager to get some payback tonight.

>>51966066
She seemed pleased with our surrender, so I imagine she did want us alive.

>>51965921
Hey Swifttail. You should have gone assassin instead of mastermind.

>>51966090
Fun is the most important thing. I wish my players didn't throw fits when they lost and got taken alive.

>>51966130
We tend to be a pretty relaxed bunch. This just means we get to hate somebody evil, which is always great.

>>51964229
AC *IS* miss chance

>>51966211
No, I mean stacked on top of the AC. Mirror Image gives a 75% chance to target the wrong "her".

>>51966254
That miss chance decreases with every miss, though.

>>51965687
CR 6 can still party wipe with the right spells and doesn't account for magic items, prebuffing, and surprise. Throw ogres on top of it and you're fucked.

I say your DM is either an idiot or wanted you to lose.

>>51966317
Doesn't matter if the party wipes in 2 rounds.

>>51964229

>party is level 3 with 1 level 4
>traveling through wilderness
>DM has us roll on an encounter table
>roll "Hard Enemy Encounter"
>traveling through wet swampy area
>one party member notices a bunch of bubbles in the water as if something is under there
>suddenly Young Black Dragon emerges
>dragon ends up being second on the initiative list
>flies in and uses breath weapon
61 damage
>only had 30 HP
>dead before I get a turn

still salty over this

>>51966351
I guess a deadly+ encounter in the middle of a dungeon would make that happen, yeah.

>>51966473
Shit happens anon.
Would you rather DM always "give you a chance" effectively meaning HP and death is meaningless because the DM always gives you an out?

>>51966531
Could have given signs a dragon was in the territory.

>>51966531

I'd rather death be a punishment for poor positioning or falling into traps than "you rolled on a table, unavoidable death"

>>51966569
>I'd rather death be a punishment for poor positioning or falling into traps
So in other words you'll never die because you'll never associate any death as being your own fault.
You'd always have the excuse of incomplete information so the DM shouldn't have killed you.

>>51966604

I already had another character die and it was my fault so you're wrong

>>51966604
Nigga, that death was just two rolls into death with nothing they could do.

>>51966629
That death was your fault too for fighting the dragon instead of running away or trying to talk to it.

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>>51966662

>>51966604
There should've been signs a dragon was around. This is no different from rolling 1d4 and having an Epic Wizard show up as a level 1 party if you roll a nat 1.

>>51966662

I couldn't run away. Dragon killed me before I had a turn. Only way to run away was to metagame as if my character saw "hard encounter" in the clouds and decided to go somewhere else. Also I didn't speak draconic.

>>51966680
Well thems the breaks.
DM established his style as the kind where you can die at any time.
Maybe you'll be more careful next time. Maybe take the long way around instead of going through the swamp.

>>51966719
>Roll hard encounter on road
>Red dragon swoops down and kills party

>>51966100
Who?

>>51966719

Yeah. What scares me though is this table also includes such things as "deadly encounter" and "deadly encounter: ambush"

>>51966755
Our rogue. He's falling hard for the sorceress.

>>51966604
There's a difference between dying in combat where you could at least theoretically win, and dying because the GM goes "rocks fall, everyone dies."

>>51966831
But DM didn't go
>rocks fall everybody dies
He rolled a hard encounter, dragon rolled better initiative, anon failed the saving through, the DM rolled high damage
Completely different.

>>51966878
>But DM didn't go
He might as well have.

>>51966919
No, because at any of those steps anon would probably not have died
You're a shitty babby "there shouldn't be a threat of death ever" player.
Go play a storygame kiddo because that's clearly what you want.

>>51964229
>>51964542
>>51964677

I have a feeling that this did not actually happen, but anyways:

>Level 7
>Enemy has 18 dex, 20 cha, perfectly prepared spells + very powerful magical items
>And ogre henchmen

Had you encountered her before? Did you have any idea that she might have been in the dungeon? Did the non-caster have anything to do this fight other than hit the ogres?

>>51966812
Is the sorceress one of those 10/10 20yo level 20 girls?

>>51966941
A level 3 party has no chance of either out-fighting or out-running a young black dragon short of a miracle.

>>51966747
>>51966680

>Roll hard encounter in the tavern
>Bartender is a young black dragon
>Entire tavern is made of young black dragons
>Entire town was actually just young black dragons

Your fault desu

>>51966953
We'd met her before but didn't know she was a bad guy. Rumor was there was a spellcaster in the dungeon. Once she showed up we switched to focus her.
>>51966992
Level 9 actually, I believe, but other than that yes

>>51966941
>No, because at any of those steps anon would probably not have died
That's like expecting a level 1 to solo three Shadows and saying "well sucks to be you haha".

>>51967114
>implying she's a bad guy
She's just lonely anon :(

>>51967092
>young black dragon are replacing the kingdom's populace

>>51967197
>Roll encounter dice
>Die is a young black dragon, total party wipe again.

>>51967143
Hah! Well, I guess we'll see tonight if Swifttail's dashing kobold good looks will thaw her half-elf heart.

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>>51965921
Something like this, perhaps?

>>51967092
>>51967197
>>51967261
I'd play in that world

>>51964516
Wrong.
>Mage Armor, Shield, Mirror Image, Blink
All of these can be used at the saved time.

What bounded accuracy does do is limit the AC the martial characters can hope to achieve to an extremely low number, so good job.

>>51970554
>saved
Same*, Blink is the only one that uses concentration.

>>51970554
>>51970569
Oh god, Shield. Her AC would have gone to 27.

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>>51965791
>OuO

>>51970554
What people think bounded accuracy does: Wow, martials hit a lot more often than they did in 3.5 and player AC actually matters beyond the first few levels!

What bounded accuracy actually does: makes high AC enemies annoying as all fuck to fight for the entire game unless you're bypassing AC, makes only the lowest of the low AC enemies able to be hit on a 2 by a max level Fighter, and not even that when you consider GWM. Monster attack bonuses still get out of control at high CR so you really have to pour on the magic items to make AC do work.

I still don't understand why people think bounded accuracy means martials hit more.

>>51965791
could not be, Tharja is not a villain

>>51971853
Pretty much.

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I found pic related. Looks just like the DM's description sounded.
Game's about to start, I'll tell you how things shape up this time. Hopefully we'll do better in this fight.

>>51970295
Course you would.
>Roll stats.
>Noobish character generator but whatever

>Get a 18
>Dm rules you are now a young adult black dragon.

>>51973673
That sounds fun as fuck

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>>51973576

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>>51973576
Goddamn that's hot. Somebody in your party better fuck her.

>>51964542
>magic
Well gee whiz bucko.
There's your answer.

>>51971882
>Fighting for Plegia when you first encounter her
>Creepy stalker
>Abuses her daughter

The only good thing about Tharja is that she made bodystockings more popular.

>>51966941
The young black dragon is a CR7 encounter. Most parties can hit above their CR level because we're not stupid, but a level 3 party can't do this. Its breath weapon does anywhere from 8 to 88 damage with an average of 49 with its breath weapon or 32 damage in melee. They stand no chance. This is not a "threat of death" it's ensured death.

>>51975791
There are exactly two theoretical upsides to Tharja: Her daughter, and making her daughter.
For all her faults and creepiness, she is pretty much walking sex.
Though, again, her daughter is the superior waifu.

>>51964229
PC casters are, but that sounds like a boss fight, and those are necessary precautions to stop her going down like a bitch to one crit happy barbarian

>>51967261
>Take a ferry across the river
>Roll for random encounter
>Young black dragon is hiding below deck

OP here. It went fairly close to how I expected.
>open with us locked up and disarmed
>discuss our plans, decide to wait a couple hours so it'll be likely the sorc's unconscious
>a few hours later
>wizard casts Sleep on the guards
>we break out fairly easily
>sneak through the dungeon
>get to her bedroom
>rogue sneaks ahead to investigate/see her up close when she's not trying to kill him
>DM is looking nervous
>"Sure you don't want to investigate for traps or anything like that? Cast spells?"
>Rogue player says "My character would charge ahead brazenly to see a hot almost-naked evil chick up close, no matter how stupid."
>"Alright..." DM says uncertainly
>rest of us hang back
>rogue steps on something
>DM shakes his head, and asks for four dex saves from him
>as you can imagine, the rogue is barbecued by four stacked Glyph of Warding Fireballs
>this wakes up the sorc
>roll init
Luckily, this time, the dice were on our side. We battered her down, got her down to 7 HP, when her turn came up
>"I think we'll have to dance another time," she taunts, and casts Dimension Door
>but our fighter took the Mage Slayer feat
>he gets a reaction attack when she casts a spell
>hit
>0 HP
>"I aim to knock her unconscious," the fighter's player says. "I'll want to question her later."
Our cleric blew a Revivify on the rogue, who dizzily muttered something about hot in both senses of the word. We tied her up, gagged her, removed her wand, and looted the place. DM decided to call it there.

>>51976873
Well at least you can't say the GM doesn't pull his punches anymore.

>>51975791
>The only good thing about Tharja
is the doujin where takes the D from her own daughter

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>>51977094
I remember that one.

>>51964965
There's a difference between being hard and being unfair anon.

>>51966941
There's no way that a level 3 party could kill a young black dragon, the numbers make it impossible, short of a string of lucky rolls.

You'd be better off rolling to dodge rain or jump over a building or some shit.

>>51977749
I'm not going to turn this into pathfinder general, but minmaxed characters with good strategy could do this.

>>51978196

Just wondering how minmaxed you'd need to be? Dragon killed 2 people before anyone got to take a turn. I guess if everyone maxed CON so they could survive the first breath, maybe?

>>51964772
>>51964787

What is name of webcomic? Please and thank you.

>>51978934

wow, there's someone on /tg/ who doesn't know oglaf?

>>51978960

I've visited the site years ago, and I forgot what it was called.

Thank you kindly.

>>51978972

No problemo, i don't mind spoonfeeding others from time to time (the url is in the comic)

>>51964665
>legendary wondrous item that reshapes to fit the face and head of a wearer attuned to it
Isn't this a common trait of literally every wondrous item in D&D, to the point where a glove would account for polydactyly or amputation?

>>51976873
>We tied her up, gagged her, removed her wand, and looted the place
HAHA TIME FOR MAGICAL REALM

>>51965687
Also note they hypnotic pattern breaks the moment the caster or a casters ally does something threatening or if the fascinated guys are exposed to threatening or dangerous things.

>>51979036
I think his point is that a single threatening action was all that was required to wipe half the party.

>>51964229
Also mirror image only fools sight. You can counter it by closing your eyes, accepting a 50%miss chance or disadvantage or however that works and hit the square she stands in. Small but funny note.

>>51978196
Min-maxing only really works to a point though. Like you can't min-max to the point that you're capable of surviving 49 damage as a third level character.

Even then, young dragons are fucking monsters that are CR 7 and have high AC and HP to boot, so even if you could survive the breath weapon, there's no way that you'd be able to a) deal enough damage, b) chew through its AC, or c) survive more blows, at the same time.

As a third level character, you wouldn't even have access to the good spells that could theoretically take it out either, so you can't even breeze through it using magic.

>>51979059
She already had bullshit up that gave her a 50% miss chance anyways, so you'd basically make it so she would never get hit.

>>51979178
The big problem is that at level 3 there's barely been any room to min-max in the first place. A party of level 10s can chew through a CR 15-6 with min-maxing, but at level 3 your shit still going to be near identical to what you originally had at game start.
Even a PF mage at level 3 can't do shit to a young black dragon.

>>51966473
Oh wow
Same shit happened to me a long fuckin time ago, we were walking through a swampy area, random young black dragon,
But we decided to talk to the dragon out of curiosity, it had said its demands a thousand copper coins or our lives. The specific nature of the demand was what caught our attention.
Turned out it was trying to collect copper coins because it wanted to woo a fair copper dragon with a grand hoard of copper. So we told it everything we knew about copper mining and the various mines we actually did know about, and he let us off the hook. Even gave us a token that supposedly means you're a bro if you show it to a dragon.
Last we heard, the price of copper was high as fuck and a lightning tower was being built

I guess in the end, even evil poison-spewing dragons need to get laid.

>>51970569
Blink doesn't use concentration either, so she could've stacked these buffs with Haste for another +2 AC and a free Dodge action each turn, or Stoneskin for resistance to nonmagical b/p/s damage.

>>51976822
>Escape into water.
>River is young black dragon.
>The two young black dragons are fighting each other
>Why are they all the same age bracket what the fuck happend 16-25 years ago?

>>51978196
Also if your arguement is "Psssh you could have done it if you were a faggot" is not the best arguement.

You do not want to essentially punish players for not being That Guys who only play a series of 3rd party inbalanced codzillas because its the only way to fuckin matter.

>>51979030
The important part is "Each Dragon mask is a Legendary"

>>51964229
Stories like these make me very glad I'm playing 4e instead of inferior editions.

>>51979187
Miss chance doesn't stack. Only highest applies. In this case 50%

>>51971853
Most of your post I agree with, except this
>only the lowest of the low AC enemies able to be hit on a 2 by a max level Fighter
If you literally need a natural 1 to miss something with an attack, you probably shouldn't be fighting it in the first place.

If it's some mook or something you probably shouldn't even be fighting it, if it's a super-flimsy expendable minion for something tougher I'd prefer 4e's minion rules.

If it's actually meant to be a threat, it would need HP or offense or something so ridiculously high to compensate that it should probably be redesigned in a more balanced way. Theoretically you could get a little mileage out of this in the form of the occasional gimmick monster designed to inconvenience people who don't care about AC (or something like that), but that sort of thing is best used very sparingly.

I know 3.X is designed around the assumption that warrior-types will eventually reach that point (with their initial attacks, if full attacking), but just because 3.X does something doesn't make it a good idea.

>>51976873
Did you rape her
please tell me you rape her

>>51979624
>If you literally need a natural 1 to miss something with an attack, you probably shouldn't be fighting it in the first place.
Eh it's possible to have something that has just so much HP that AC doesn't matter. I mean in theory, something like a giant tree would probably have 0 AC but a billion HP.

>>51979447
He's confusing you by using terminology not in 5e. Miss Chance as a term doesn't exist in 5e, but the concept of miss chance can theoretically stack. The Blink spell grants a 50% chance to be on the Border Ethereal when it's not your turn. The Mirror Image spell grants a 75% that an attack targeting you will be redirected to one of your illusory duplicates (this chance gets lower as duplicates are hit and thus destroyed).

>>51979859
Yes,sorry. Getting terminology mixed up.point still stands. Close your eyes and mirror image does nothing. It says so on the spell. People not relying on sight is unaffected. (What is blind fighting rules in 5e?). Also yes. It seems blink is just temporary 50% inability to target, too. so at least you can tell when blink is not in effect, and you are -only- dealing with a boatload of ac and fighting blindly. Hurray

>>51980140
Blind fighting rules I think are you have to select the right square, and then take disadvantage (roll twice, take lower) on the attack.

>>51979791
Our wizard wanted to kill her, and when we wouldn't he wanted to rape her instead. We stopped him.

That said, our rogue has been laying it on pretty damn thick, and I expect he'll seduce her next session.

>>51966473

That shit happened to me too anon, both in 5e and 3.5

>>51965687

Why would her stealth be compared against your passive perceptions if you were in a combat? I thought passives were an out of combat thing?

>>51981832
You can roll a Perception check as an action to try and spot someone hidden, but none of us suspected she was there. Since we didn't roll, it was just against our passives.

I think the other thing to consider is that it depends on who the mage is: is it a player or an enemy? Player mages are seen as 'squishy' because players usually spread out their spells over a day and typically don't blow all their slots on one encounter for obvious reasons of needing to be useful later. Enemy mages don't have to worry about any of that and can drop all their spells in a single encounter.

>>51967197

how can white bois compete?

>>51979178
In the campaign I'm in, we beat a Young Black Dragon at Level 4.

That said, our party is pretty much all damage-dealing (In this case it was Oathbreaker Paladin, Battlemaster, Knowledge Cleric, Shadow Monk, and an NPC Eldritch Knight we were supposed to be working with), we were underground, we had the drop on it, and it spent most of the battle afraid of my Dread Aspect. Even then it was a hard fight and half of us spent most of that battle on their asses and myself and the Cleric had to make heavy use of our healing abilities.

Our party is rather consistent at punching above its weight, though. I'm now level 6 (Paladin 5, Warlock 1) and I've already decapitated a Fire Giant, a Stone Giant, and a Formorian, along with soloing a 10th Level Moon Druid in an arena battle. It's been rather frustrating for the DM to balance encounters for us.

We keep joking that eventually he's just going to have to TPK us and hope we roll a more balanced party.

>>51979198

that's awesome

>>51979198
That's really fucking awesome. Hope he fucked her.

>>51979198
Tween romance. With dragons. This is either completely awesome or written by Chuck Tingle.

>>51970554
Fucking thanks Wizards of the Ass

>>51981968
So wait. You're complaining about an enemy Sorceress having access to invisibility and mage armor?

You'd probably throw the table over at my rogue's ethereal boots and amulet of natural armor.

>>51976873
So basically the GM took pity on you and just handed you both a way out and a victory

>>51982820
Completely awesome, definitely.

Have you tried not playing D&D?

>>51982466

How much HP did you guys have at 4? How did no one get killed in 1 hit?

>>51984132
Not sure. We got lucky, probably, and we scattered, to make its breath weapon less viable. Added, due to Dread Aspect, it was forced to use its movement to keep moving away from me, unless it could get 30 feet away and pass a saving throw. It didn't roll well on that, got bogged down by other players, and allowed me to keep closing the gap. As long as I was between the rest of the party and the dragon, it had to flee from me.

Things in the early levels were prety bad at rolling against Dread Aspect. More recently it's begun to have issues, against the Druid it just didn't work at all, but back then it was a massive help for bosses.

>>51977094
Sauce? There's too many doujin to accurately search.

>>51985694
Komaka Sugizu Tsutawaru de Arou Ero Doujin Senshuken

>>51979624
It's not just 3.X that does that. That was a core assumption of D&D right up until 4E, and 3.X had Power Attack to make the excess accuracy useful.

>>51986096
Also, between Avengers, Rogues, good leaders giving out very large bonuses to hit, and pretty much all enemies staying within the 60-70% band, I'd still say that 4E has less obnoxious AC than 5E does.

>>51986020
Many thanks friend

>>51984434

I think "we had the drop on it" is the most relevant part of this. The dragon didn't get to insta-kill 2 people before they even got to move.

>>51986898
Yeah, it was sleeping when we walked in. We even had a plan to kill its attendants without waking it through use of a Silence spell. Unfortunately the second one was just outside the radius, but it counted as a surprise round if I remember right.

>>51987299
>murdering a defenseless preteen dragon in her sleep
Asshole

>>51988092

fuck black dragons though for real, I bet she deserved it

>>51988130
I almost said you were being heartless, but then I remembered just how nasty blacks are. Black

>>51988092
It was a dude. And our Cleric wanted to cut it up and sell its parts on the black market. He even went and hired butchers and carts to do the cutting and transporting. Except by the time he got back, he discovered that we'd ruptured its acid gland when we killed it, and its corpse had been melted.

Its father agrees with you though. He's now our BBEG. Probably.

>>51988130

He'd decided to take over an Elf tomb and use it as a lair, and his Kobold minions were desecrating the graves and using one of the rooms as a latrine. And the Elves gave us a lot of money to kick them out.

>>51988378
>And our Cleric wanted to cut it up and sell its parts on the black market. He even went and hired butchers and carts to do the cutting and transporting.
Jeez, are you guys playing an evil party?

>>51988430
>butchering horrible monsters for their useful magical parts
>evil

u wot m8

>>51988430
That's the funny thing. My character, the Oathbreaker, is pure evil. Chaotic Evil and bound for the lower planes upon death. He just hasn't realised that he's evil yet. He's pretty on board with killing things and people for the "greater good", it's just his definition of good. He's not really grasped the idea that his definition isn't everybody elses', and ideas like "Tiefling genocide" aren't going to go down well with people who don't think Tieflings are inherently evil.

The Cleric, meanwhile, is just Asshole Good. Deliberately, actually, because when someone's indispensible, he doesn't have to be nice. But that's not a bad thing, his dickishness is well-liked OOC.

>>51988642
The BBEG dragon can't pay for a Raise Dead or a Resurrection?

>>51966677
This. I have made the same roll on a table I drew up myself, the difference is my party had a Ranger who actually had the capability to notice shit like that. Hell, a Cleric could have probably gotten lucky and done it with stat alone.

>>51989541
It's a bit harder when the dragon dissolved itself I think.

>>51989645
If there's any body part left at all, a rez will work.

>>51989541
>>51989645

^This. The body melted. And even if he could, doesn't mean he wouldn't want to kill us for the inconvenience.

Not to mention we've had a habit of foiling his other schemes. I stole a magic Greatsword from him, and we've been generally ruining his attempts to fuck with a city in the Feywild by killing all of his minions.

That said I have a feeling that something else that's coming up later might be the true BBEG, considering that my Paladin, the Fighter, the Cleric, and a Barb who wasn't there during the first fight have already taken on a Marilith, which has higher CR, and half-healthed it without dying.

>>51989753
Never understimate a dragon with class levels.

>>51989753
>And even if he could, doesn't mean he wouldn't want to kill us for the inconvenience.
Makes sense. One of these days I really need to use a dragon for a BBEG.

>>51989765
Very true. I'm just surprised he's only an adult rather than an Ancient.

Then again maybe the DM wants him to be dealt with before 90% of the party that killed his kid have died from other means.

>>51976822
>the sound of young black dragons attract more zombies

>>51991884
>Roll perception on zombies
>Row low
>Dm decides this means that the encounter has to be harder.

>The zombies turn out to be the necrotic corpses of young black dragons.

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>>51973576

>>51966473

I had that happen to me once in a 2e game.

>be fighter/mage, level 5/5
>be on a boat crossing the ocean
>dragon turtle surfaces, starts circling our boat
>somebody decides to shoot it with a bow
>it breathes its breath weapon across the entire deck
>made my saving throw vs breath weapon
>still reduced to -11 HP

And that was the end of that character.

>>51979198
This is why I have my character know Draconic, in case bullshit like this can play out. Just because the statblock says "evil", you'll have to point out where it says "completely unreasonable".
It also helps when your GM doesn't bother asking for CHA rolls when your arguments are made in such a way that whoever disagrees first is clearly the asshole in the situation.

>>51981625
I hope he seduces her, if not for having a powerful ally then for having a relationship plotline.
>>51992465
qt/10 would ask why she wears the mask

>>51993085
Then he's just going to switch to giants or something else.

>>51993903
Dm sees "Hard Encounter" And decides its appropriate to send a monster that effortlessly kills a party member before they can take a action to blink.

If a dm is willing to throw heavyweights based on arbitrary dice rolls they likely would just go "Oh this person already has a way to solve a dragon, it doesn't count as hard anymore. I have to work around this."

>>51992465
>>51993193
I swear to god if your party doesn't run a train on her I'm going to flip shit

>>51993193
Lotta loyalty for a hired warrior

>>51988378
>And our Cleric wanted to cut it up and sell its parts on the black market. He even went and hired butchers and carts to do the cutting and transporting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTMe5p_eTZg

>>51964229
She is, look at her hit points.

>>51998698
Is that a sexual innuendo?

OP here. We're playing again tomorrow night, so I'll update you on how things go then. Hope the thread is still up.

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>>51998995
RAPE

>>51999171
It's not rape if it's consensual

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>dragon sorceress
Something like this?

>>52000444
Dragonborn are weird. Am I the only one that thinks they're weird?

>>52000444
Trips confirm.

Also, hot damn. The kobold rogue in OP's party is one lucky bastard.

>>52000444
With less clothes, pretty much

>>52000472
Their lore is all over the place. Sometimes modified eggs, sometimes their own race, and so on

>>52004271
They've been trying to find a idea that would stick I think. The superpaladins didn't, and the draconians of dragonlance worked more as villians then anything.

The elf-ish lizardfolk seems the best bet so far.

>>52004271
I like the body horror origin, having once been a people so devoted to dragonkind they mutated their bodies to emulate their forms.

The ritual is still possible if it's rediscovered.

>>52004827
Elf-ish lizardfolk?

>>52005195
Proud ancient culture, used to be better then everyone.

I guess atlantean is more appropiate.

>>52005025
That's actually still around, in a way. Now it's one origin of half-dragons.

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Fuck the dragon girl OP

>>52005631
I imagine half-dragons, if not literally the spawn from a dragon, attempted such a ritual and fucked it up resulting in the mutation of being a half-dragon.

>>52005631

Specifically the ritual required the person to relinquish their entirely to the dragons, and be incubated in a transmutational egg sac until they are reborn as Dragonborn.

It reminds me of something like the xenomorphs from Alien in a way, which it how i've always imagined Dragonborn, unnatural mammalian traits composed of a non-mammalian creature, in this case magical reptiles called dragons.

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>>51992465
That's not Rezmir. This is Rezmir.

>>52007006
>no tits
>no ass
>not even a figure to make up for the lack of the first two
Is WOTC even trying? What happened to all the glorious sexy evil humanoid babes?

>>52007135
They've cut down on a bunch of that shit. You can still have it in your own games though.

>>52007203
Aww, that sucks. I love some good cheesecake, especially of the big-titted-dragon variety.

Though you're right about being able to have it our games.

>>52007006
>filename
Very accurate. I'd do her.

>>52007006
>>52008066
There was some guy who had Rezmir tsundere in his game, and he ended up marrying her.

>>52007135
That wouldn't be progressive enough.

>>52007135
>What happened to all the glorious sexy evil humanoid babes?
That would be objectifying women
Ignore the fact that the people whining about objectification tend to be those who will never be objectified

>>51979796
Thing is, that tree would likely have fairly thick bark (natural armor), so it's AC would be at least halfway decent. If you really want it to have trash AC, though, you could say it's one of the kinds of tree with fairly thin/weak bark.

Like I said, you could come up with something that works that way, but it's not the sort of thing you should probably be using on a regular basis.

>>52009832
I really hate the whole "armor is the same as avoidance" system. Like sure I can understand that if you're wearing full plate armor it's going to be hard to damage you at all, but that's due more to some sort of inherent DR than actual AC which is all-or-nothing.

>>52009827
>mfw forget to delete the name
shid :D

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The solution to this is to not allow any form of magical defense. No rings of protection, cloaks of etherialness, boots of evasion, amulets of armor and no spells that defend or prevent attacks in any way from invisibility or mage armor or mirror image.

The only way to avoid damage in a game should be if the character dodged the attack through dexterity or absorbed the attack through armor or a thick shield. This would balance martials with magic users and make a lot more sense.

>>52010177
>Martials cry themselves to sleep as Druids with Wild Shape and spellcasters who use spells that buff the fuck out of their stats/natural armor become the most durable classes in the game
Why would you do this?

>>52010805
>ANY form of magical defense

>>52010878
They're not directly defensive spells or abilities.

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I'm partial to this one.

>>52010177
>and make a lot more sense
How does it make any fucking sense that a wizard can launch a meteor at his enemies, stop time, or teleport around at will, but can't cast a simple illusion to make himself harder to hit?

>>51998474
The Battlemaster posted that almost immediately after the session, we still make jokes about it sometimes.

>>52008757
>>52009827
I think objectification is fine as long as it's equal opportunity. Put in bikini-clad girls and shirtless guys so everybody gets some eye candy.

>>52011996
I think objectification is fine, equal or otherwise.

>>51992079
WHO THE HELL FATHERED SO MANY BLACK DRAGONS 16-100 YEARS AGO???
WAS THERE SOME KIND OF MASSIVE DRAGON ORGY OR SOMETHING, SWEET LOLTH, THEY'RE EVERYWHERE.

>>52012242
Somebody misused True Polymorph

>>51964494
I'm sorry to hear that

>>52010970
Delicious

OP here. Will be playing soon, and will be back within 5 hours. Can't wait to see how this goes.

>>52009827
Which is really a damn shame. D&D had a lot of sexy evil babes, and I'll miss them. Rezmir could have had absolutely wonderful art and instead they went for a very conservative style.

>>52017865

what's the point of even having evil women if they aren't so sexy they make you want to turn evil too

>>52018749
They're still evil? Evil comes in many kinds.

>>52018749
If they're powerful enough, I'd still want to turn evil.

Evil for sex is nice, sure, but that's how succubi happen, and you're basically the villain's bitch.

Evil for power, though, doesn't have that problem.

>>52009858
I agree, but that's how it's set up.

>>51986096
>>51986194
60-70% accuracy, which would be 70-80% without Power Attack, is pretty far from "you need to roll an autofail to fail."

>>51964542
The issue is really just the magical item and the fact that the sorceress had a huge focus on high AC. Also 19 AC for a fighter is pretty shit, a level 1 fighter with starting gear can have that AC, an eldritch knight can easily get 26 AC due to the shield spell.

Overall I would say that your GM probably gave the sorceress too many hit points. Being hard to hit would be fine if she made constitution a dump stat seeing how she had maxed dex and nearly maxed strength. A reasonable fighter should have been able to drop her in like 4 hits and a paladin in one or two. Assuming she leveled like a PC and had 10 or 11 constitution she should only have (6+(Level-1)d6) leaving her with just 38 hp at level 10.

>>52019655
Funny you mention that. Once we actually got to hit her she went down fast, which we did when we caught her sleeping.

Also, I'm back, and I'll write up what happened ASAP.

>>51966878
He made the decision to roll on a table that included the functional equivalent of
>rocks fall, everyone dies

>>51966473
Y'know, a VERY similar thing happened in my group, 4 level 3 PCs, went through swamps, saw the snout. Difference is, our DM wasn't retarded and made us fight a wyrmling instead of a young. Still used breath weapon, but didnt kill our fighter.

So here's what happened this session. It was fun.

>pick up where we left off, with an interrogation
>ask standard questions: who are you, why did you attack us, what are you doing here, and so on
>she's a sorceress who decided she could make easy money and get easy power by lurking among monsters and fighting opportunistically
>we were the first trained heroes she captured so she wasn't experienced on how to lock us up
>and she stole the mask from a paladin who claimed to have killed a high-ranking member of the Cult of the Dragon
A few more questions were asked, can't remember what but don't think it was important. Our wizard was taking notes so I'll ask him when I see him.
>leave the dungeon with her in tow
>camp down for the night
>our kobold rogue takes first watch
>gives the sorc a blanket and cot, and loosens her bonds so she's more comfortable.
>talks with her pleasantly over the dying fire
>eventually she falls asleep
>next watches go by without incident
Next morning we got up, broke camp, and continued the travel back to civilization. Ran into a pack of bulettes, which was a surprisingly hard fight. Ended up in a small village with an inn
>that night
>rogue takes first watch
>sorc and rogue get to talking about their earlier lives, peppered with compliments towards each other
>rogue player asks OOC, "Is it okay if I do something really stupid? It's what my character would do, but if you want to play things safe just say no and I won't."
"Well now I gotta see this. Go for it," was the fighter's response, and the rest of us assented
>"Okay," he says, with a deep breath. "Swifttail unties her."
I bet you can imagine our faces at this point.
>a bit of romantic stuff happens, with just the right mix of corniness, cuteness, and innuendo
>one of the guys is fighting back laughter, another's dawwwing, with one smirking knowingly
>ends with the two of them going to his bed, and then a fade to black
1/2

>>52009827
>Ignore the fact that the people whining about objectification tend to be those who will never be objectified
That is exactly why there's a war against attractive women's sexuality nowadays.
Uggos, fags and trannies trying to force us to fuck them instead.

>>52021759
Somehow I don't think you have to worry about fucking anyone, m8

>>52021722
>next morning, he wakes up and he's the only one in the bed
>beside him is a hastily scrawled note (and I wrote this one down)
>"Swifttail, thank you for everything. In return for your kindness, I decided not to kill you or any of your friends when I had the chance. I hope to see you again someday, and I'll stay in touch with Dream spells and Sendings."
>"Love, Arizima."
The rest of the party freaked out IC. The exchange went something like this:
>"Relax guys, I know what happened. There's nothing to worry about."
>"What?"
>"She's free."
>"WHAT!?"
>"Yeah, I freed her last night."
>"Why in Tiamat's name would you do that?"
>"She looked uncomfortable, I was getting sleepy, and the lighting made her even more gorgeous than normal..."
>"So you let her out so you could sleep with her."
>"Hey, you guys can just pay a whore in town, but none of them ever have scales! And I wanted more than just pleasure of the flesh--I wanted the fire of passion in my heart."
>party is groaning IC and laughing OOC
>"Don't worry. She said that because of the kindness I've shown her she isn't going to kill us. I removed a dangerous threat and got us a possible ally in one move."
>I roll my eyes. "If your lust gets us killed it'll be no one's fault but your own," I say.
>"I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it," he says with a chuckle. "Ready to get going?"
And that's the story of how Swifttail got laid with a 10/10 evil sorceress and maybe fucked a little of the evil out of her too.

>>51977749
>mfw have a party of level 4s I'm running tyranny campaign for
>facing a young green dragon in forest of wyrms with 2x hit points because these guys are munchkiners
>Tried talking it down, didn't work, kobolds had dug a warren out for party
>everyone took a surprise action....including the dragon cause he knew what they were doing
>everyone hits the dragon...several crits
Dragon doesn't hit any multi attacks
>goes last in initiative
>already at half starting hp
>gets one breath weapon off and then pelted with arrows as he is trying to fly off
>dragon talked big till the ranger, paladin, and several others hit it for 100 hp

CR rating really just depends how minmaxy your group is, if you're playing with practically all min maxers and dice goes in their favor they can go well above their CR. And how they prepared they are. I ve been having difficulty in challenging them the dragon took out the kobold phalynx they had and almost dropped the ranger with some minor damage for everyone else but that's about it.

>>52021907
>>52021722
BORING NO RAPE

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>>52021722
>>52021907

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>>52021907
>Why in Tiamat's name would you do that?
>mfw, the only thing I can think of when I hear Tiamat now is pic related

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>>52021722
>>52021907
Very nice.

>>52007006
in your game maybe

>>52007006
I invoke Rule 0

>>52021907

Nice. Even better if this benefits them later.

>>52026845
I honestly expect it will. Our DM loves having characters return. Sometimes he'll have a baddie Raise Dead-ed

>>52021722
>>52021907
Now this is a good end to that arc.

>>52007006
>implying she's not just got a Disguise Self up to hide her ultra sexy body so she can deal professionally with underlings

>>52032645
I guess the sorceresses finally realized that while the possibility of fug increases loyalty, it's also distracting.

>>51966473
>Playing Pathfinder
>In some basement in a spooky mansion
>A single demon pops out of a summoning circle and uses an at-will supernatural darkness thing (The place was already pretty dark)
>Playing a wizard, so I can do is just sit there and watch because I technically can't see the demon, so I can't cast any magic at it.
>Sit there for 2 and a half hours as our party expends every single effort to kill this one demon but nobody can see it at all so everyone basically misses
>Only one member in our party had dark vision or whatever
>Whenever the darkness runs out, it just casts it again with no trouble whatsoever and keeps fucking with us

Seriously one of the most boring nights of my life.

This same exact shit happened with some wraith-type guy in some other dungeon, except we had some oils of daylight (After we fought the thing for forty-five minutes only for supernatural darkness to win the day again). That didn't work because it would be dis-spelled because at-will darkness is the best spell ever.

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>>52021722
>>52021907
Oh yeah, that's good.

10/10 party sounds like the best game ever.

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>>52033845
>not countering the spell
>No dispel magic
>No daylight to counter darkness
>No darkvision
>not using AoEs
>not having party members triangulate so you can aim an number of spells
>not immediately casting banishment
>not using Divination spells to know you're going up against a demon

>I just stand there like a complete moron and don't RP my 20+ INT

0/10 shit Wizard. What the hell is wrong with you?

>>51964229
you can be squishy and hard to hit

when you hit them theyre fucked

>>52034216
I'm new to Pathfinder and nobody explained the things that I'd be able to do in this situation.

>not countering the spell
The demon was too high level for that to be reliable, and I didn't know the spell.

>No daylight to counter darkness
>Cast daylight and the demon just does at-will darkness the next turn.

Daylight is literally a waste of a slot.

>not using AoEs
DM said I couldn't see the demon, so I couldn't target it with any spell. Plus I'm level three. The only option according to my DM was to attack it in melee.

>Not immediately casting banishment
I was level 3 anon.

Excellent advice.

>>52019450
Are you fucking high? 3.X did not have 60-70% accuracy outside of rusty dagger shanktown.

>>52012242
The Great Wizard had a fetish and knew how to summon.

Hot damn could that wizard summon!

>>52034058
They're all great guys. DM is god tier too. I got really lucky.

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>>51966941

>starts as a thread talking about the absurdity of mage defenses in tabletop RPGs
>now a storytime about the romance between a kobold rogue and a dragon-path sorceress
Never change /tg/

>>52037360
But I was having fun with the dragon joke.

>>51978681
Average PC hit points at 3rd level with 20 con is 35 (5 from Con * 3 + 9 (Average at level 1) + 5.5 * 2 (Average at level 2+) unless i fucked up the math) which is enough to survive the average Young Black Dragon breath attack, assuming they make the save.

>>52033679
It goes the other way. I imagine flat sorcs will disguise self to make themselves look hotter if they worry they might lose a fight.

>>52043330
I'm actually interested now, how many people have had enemies offer their ass in exchange for their life in a game?

>>52009832
And that's the inherent issue with AC. Trying to have something be both dodge, hardness and whatnot and still make sense is weird, particularly once you start including shit like object stats.

Granted, I gave up on D&D back in 3.5, but I still remember the shitshow that was AC as compared to reflex (if both are based on your ability to dodge, why are they separate stats and what is the difference?) or hardness. Why the fuck does a door need separate defensive stats as opposed to a dragon or giant? Presumably neither is very hard to hit, but get by on being sturdy enough that you won't necessarily do much damage when you hit them. But no, a door can't have an AC score for some reason.

Also, what the fuck is the logical explanation for having DR and AC be different things if armor adds to AC, and the logic behind that is it reduces the chance of suffering injuries? I mean, why the fuck is DR necessary then? Wouldn't having that as a stat be the same thing as admitting that AC is not working as a measure of how hard something is to hurt?

>>52045034
AC is all or nothing so it literally can't be armor, logically speaking.

>>52044914
Not in so many words, but there seems to be a general consensus in my party: attractive people are more likely to be spared

>>52011903
Depends on how magic works. Since it is literally made up and does impossible things, the only thing that makes anything more likely than anything else is how the writers decides magic works. In some settings reviving the dead is impossible. This makes about as much sense as reviving the dead being possible.

>>52045134
Making people attractive is narrative shorthand for being important and, usually, a good person. Hollywood has taught us, amongst other stupid things, that pretty people are good guys or people that shouldn't die for one reason or another.

There's also a lot of good ways to describe people being attractive that you don't do for ugly or generic people ; So by giving them the extra narrative weight of a full description, you're immediately cluing people in that this person is important.

>>52045186
>listening to hollywood
*wheezes to death*
No seriously. The shorthand for being important is giving a description at all, or a longer, more detailed one compared to just "the milkmaid winks at you".

>>51965687

Yeah, I'll add another voice to the 'your DM wanted you to lose' pile. That's a wildly overtuned encounter for a 7th level party; a very specific set of (admittedly useful) spells MIGHT have helped. Get ready for some PLOT.

>>52045186
The most interesting versions of the Phantom of the Opera story are the ones that emphasize that, no, he's not horrible because he's ugly. In fact, he uses his deformity as an excuse to be a horrible piece of shit. Sure, people treated him like crap, but he's fundamentally an evil, manipulative person.

Because making the ugly guy the hero just enforces the trope by being the exception that proves the rule. Sort of like the whole noble savage thing, or the one woman who is not a damsel in distress.

>>52045483
That's not what exception that proves the rule means.
The exception that proves the rule is more correctly stated as exception implies adherence in cases not excepted. If you have a rule of "you can park here on sundays" that implies you cannot park except for sunday.

>>51964229
I'm going to take a wild guess and say this sorcerer has the following spells in addition to a possible +X Bikini:
>Mage Armor
>Mirror Image
>Blink

One way of defeating this is by running away for a minute. Blink and Mirror Image will run out, and the sorceress must spend two actions and respective spell slots to reapply both.

Another, less cowardly way is to have the martials attempt to hit her when she is in the material plane. So long as they hit her duplicates (max ac will be 15), they will dispel, taking away the 75% chance. From there, having the Wizard cast Dispel Magic on the sorceress will force her to burn a counterspell or lose her Blink spell. From there, all she has left is her AC, and just straight up attacking her from there will do, as sorcerers have little HP. For added measure, casting Hold Person on her also works nicely.

Or, if this a high level campaign, you can use antimagic field.

>>52045752
Exactly.
>+X Bikini
Fucking kek

>>51964229
Just nuke her with a non targeting spell.

>>52046722
>defeat the sorceress
>detect magic
>her bikini is magic
>identify (range: touch)
>it's a +2 blinking magic-eating mobile bikini of ectoplasmic feedback
Side note: I find it hilarious that wizards have an in-game excuse to grope unconscious enemies' tits.

>>52045218
This is pretty much accurate. Attraction is just the PCs wanting to get laid.

>>52048144
>sexually harassing (assaulting?) someone is just standard adventuring procedure
Fucking wizards man

>>52052328
Or bard

>>52052356
True, bards tend to be pretty pervy too. Though they can usually just seduce somebody, while wizards scry the target of their affection and fap furiously to the scrying.

>>51965687

I'll be the minority voice. That sounds totally fair for level 7 characters, depending on their count, and if you have decent magic items. I made Rezmir a ridiculous superboss too, turned Hazirawn into a Stand with Legendary Actions, and made her a level 12 Warlock, and my party of four still owned her.

>>51964542
>18 dex and 20 chr

you're obviously playing a high level campaign? Why are you having trouble with a single sorceress?

>>51964542
Then no shit, dumbass. If your casters buffed your fighter and he had some legendary items he'd outpace the ebemy quite easily.

You're complaining about a buffed up creature vs a default one. Your post is a horrible representation of a completely different problem. It was misleading and pointless, please step on somewhat pointy rock.

>>51965950
The problem he had was with the thread's original premise. OP didn't complain about how his DM was throwing something super powerful at them, and instead led with "Casters are too buff waaah". This is why people who don't actually play much think caster supremacy is worse than it is. Besides, an NPC can't be defined by the same limitations as PCs in terms of stat balance, only in their difficulty.

If a magic user has over many years changed their clothes to be iron and their skin bark, then that's what happens. It should make sense in their setting, but every setting has its own rules. The DMG is a book of suggestions to be picked out of, while the PHB is a book of rules to be altered. A bad DM is a bad DM because he threw too hard of an enemy trying to kill his party for no reason (or for a reaskn ythey wouldn't find enjoyable), not because he uses a spellcaster instead if a warrior.

>>51966053
>implying every enemy would always kill a defeated opponent
Wut

>>52053238
Some DMs get so used to murderhobos they make all the monsters murderhobos too

>>52053209
Caster supremacy is a thing mainly because casters, given enough time and money, can do basically anything that isn't explicitly impossible like killing the tarrareqsue in PF. Want to become a lich but still have your tight bod and the ability to have children by riding dick? It's going to be possible with a few thousand years of study.
Plus the bufs on casters generally come from themselves instead of items, making them seem broken in comparison. A fighter with a +10 sword of fuck you and +10 plate of titans is overpowered, but it doesn't feel as bad as a caster buffing himself to the point a small volcano eruption centered on him feels like a hot water shower.

>>52056923
>Caster supremacy is a thing mainly because casters, given enough time and money, can do basically anything that isn't explicitly impossible like killing the tarrareqsue in PF. Want to become a lich but still have your tight bod and the ability to have children by riding dick? It's going to be possible with a few thousand years of study.
WIzards more so than others, really. Sorcs just unlock their innate power while wizards read books.

>>52056923
Or maybe its because a Fighter relies on items but will only get them in the same rate of a Wizard who also has the same advantages on using them.

A Fighter with a +10 Sword is powerful but still nothing compared to a wizard with a plus +10 sword.

>>52052816
Agreed there. She just caught them offguard and prebuffed, and the wizard didn't have dispel or counterspell.

>>51964229
She's a boss.

>>52059060
Because we are in a high science setting where study is key to power, so in recent fiction study magic gives more power than innate/gifted supernatural powers.
This is a really recent tread. Even in Tolkien and Moorcock, which has served as main inspiration for modern fantasy settings, magic is else because you are an divine being (like gandalf) or because of favors divine beings and spirits owe you.
In a way for me the Oracle or Sorcerer seems more tuned with our world's traditional view of magic than the wizard who treats magic as we, today, would like it treated: science.

>>52062876
I still to this day dont get how it works. If its that easy shouldn't everyone be able to use atleast some cantrips?

>>52045117
I mean if we think in terms of meatpoints it actually makes *some* sense, either you whacked them in the parts that the armor covered (AC shield bonuses add to this idea) or you whacked them in the fleshy bits and did damage.

Not that this explanation excuses all of the shit that >>52045034 brings up.

>>52011903
>How does it make any fucking sense that a wizard can stand up and walk around even with his atrophied muscles, light a candle with a ten-year long incantation, conjure a 1 centimeter cube of cheese once per day, shit himself, Teleport once and only once in a forbidden ritual reserved for liches, but can't handle being stabbed in the gut??


D E P E N D S O N T H E S E T T I N G

>>52062974
you often can if you throw a feat or some similar garbage tax at it.

>>52062974
Cantrips are like calculus. Anyone CAN learn it, but few are willing to put in the time and effort.

>>51964229
Did it not occur to you that its just a polymorphed Dragon?

>>52063592
That... actually makes a lot of sense. Would also further explain Swifttail's attraction to her.

>>52062974

cantrips are weaker than just using high STR or DEX and hitting with a weapon. Why bother?

>>52063354
Calculus is worthless, prestidigitation on the other hand lets you do your laundry in a second.

>>52034439
When I play, Deeper Darkness and Daylight cancel each other out for the duration on the two spells. Same thing with Light and Darkness. Recasting either has no additional effect.

That said, unless you suspect you might need some light, you probably wouldn't be slotting it.

>>52064095
>Calculus is worthless
brainlet detected

>>51964229
>the party is facing a sorceress wearing nothing but a bikini
GTFO with your magical realm

>>52066883
Cheesecake isn't magical realm anon

>>52063301
garbage tax?

>>52022792
>the party sets off to slay Tiamat herself
>they are captured and imprisoned
>they are reunited with the sorceress in the dungeon, as she used to work for Tiamat but tried to abandoned her after she grew fond of the rogue
>"What makes you think you can just leave?" - Tiamat
>the sorceress has a plan
>she tells the party all of Tiamat's favourite discussion topics and essentially teaches them how to get on her good side
>rogue seduces Tiamat
>rogue gets laid again
The rise of the luckiest man on earth

>>52062876
>this is a really recent trend
To be fair, Gandalf is literally a not!angel, and 'favors divine beings and spiites owe you' isn't actually arcane magic anymore - it's being a Cleric / Druid.
Also, in mythology anyone who could actually use magic was usually either divine in nature or really close, and in a lot of mythologies there was no meaningful difference between magical and superhuman. To the Greeks, Heracles was no less magical than the Hydra or Circe; the Hydra just happened to be a beast and Circe happened to be a *poof* *bam* *transmute* caster instead of a *does the impossible 12 times in a row* hero.
In eastern mythology it tended to be more evenly split in that becoming magical was a way for a mortal to become divine, and becoming magical could mean being born with it (Son Goku), studying for it (Taoist rituals), or begging the gods for help (Shinto stuff).

>>51966941
So you would be fine if you got ambushed by a tarrasque because the dm rolled " deadly:ambush?

>>52072624
iirc isn't it piss easy to defeat a Tarrasque in certain editions? It involved summoning Shadows or Allips iirc.

>>52072381
And he's a kobold. It's practically a racial imperative to sleep with a dragon, and he gets lucky with the most powerful one in the multiverse.

>>52073119
That was 3.x. Even in 5e a level 1 aarocara (sp?) wizard can just spam Acid Splash.

>>52074246
Does summoning shadows not work anymore? Looks to me like they still allow no saving throw against STR damage.

>>52074270
You can't summon shadows

>>52076207
Well it's technically creating
Create Greater Undead

>>52076287
Create Undead (which includes Greater) doesn't let you create shadows anymore, though as a DM I'd allow it.