>i uhhhhhh shout at people to give them superpowers? >No

>>51944450
Why do you have autism?

>>51944450
>inb4 bait images

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>>51944505
Because warlords are the dumbest shit and should be a subclass of paladins, not fighters.

Pic related.

>>51944531
What about Warlords screams divine magic to you?

>>51944681
Mundane commands shouldn't give mechanical bonuses. You don't get +2 to damage just because some asshole says "hit this guy!"

>>51944766
Do you not understand what morale is?

>>51944450

I mean, at this point we may as well accept that for a 4e thread to survive and get traffic it either needs a retard, a troll, or Touhou.

At least it's not kitsunes.

>>51944450
It's a bait, but I have the physiological need to write this.

3.5 did the "Warlord" before, as a concept. It was called Marshal.

>>51944860
And the Warblade and Crusader, moreso the former than the latter. A good chunk of the Warlord's mechanics are stolen directly from White Raven.

>>51944813
>Making someone happy gives him +2 to damage

Yeah, totally realistic. Might as well homebrew in "Whore" class.

>>51944987
You mean Bards?

No need to reinvent the wheel.

>>51945011
No, bards are magical.

Warlords somehow replicate magic effects without being magical.

>>51944450
>>51944531
>>51944766
>>51944987
>>51945072
I know you're starving for (You)s, and I'm feeling generous, so here you go.

>>51945082
>he pointed out an inconsistency! Must defend my waifu game!

Please tell me how you can do magic by shouting at people. Please. Go on. I am open to discussion.

>>51945072
What is explicitly magical about handing out a bonus?

A commoner can hand out a bonus with the help action all the time.

>>51945124
(You)

>>51944987
>D&D
>realistic

>>51944450
Warlord is my fav class from 4E, from gameplay perspective.

He is kinda cool with all this recovering health by shouting, that you can roleplay in few different ways.

And now the question. There are spellcasters with magical voices or power of dancing, that boost allie's abilities, so... why the fuck no martial class doing the same? It doesn't make more sense on bards.

>>51945283
Because they're magical.

Magical =/= Mundane.

>>51945236
Realistic within D&D terms.

>>51945128
Doing it at the distance and not an explicit action.

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>>51945124
Skyrim does it fine with the dragonborn, when it comes to magic is the conduit and type of magic, some people use staffs, others swords, wands, lutes or even their bare hands but warlords take it a step up and use their vocal cord.

It'd be up to the DM though on how he plays it, if the warlord recites battle incantations while fighting or screams automatically (Much like your thread) trying to hit the right pitches and tones to get a response, there are many ways to fluff it you chucklefuck it's a world with giant eyeball monsters, end time scenarios up the arse and gender equality, if all these things can magically function then some cheerleader with a few buffs and a good AC isn't going to destroy immersion.

>>51945315
Martial =/= mundane, either, and that's even less of the case in 4E, so you're bitching just for the sake of bitching.

>>51945315
>Doing it at the distance and not an explicit action.
You're shouting at them. That's an explicit action.
Are you saying you can't shout at people from a distance?

>>51944450
>everything non magical needs to be fluff only
>mundane classes cannot have any mechanics other than roll dice to do damage

Kill yourself.

>>51945346
You can, but it shouldn't have any effects.

>>51945344
Fighters SHOULD BE mundane, though. That's right in description.

>>51945350
>That's right in description.
No it's not.

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>>51944450

>>51945350
>You can, but it shouldn't have any effects.
But that's wrong. You can do a lot of things with talking.

For example, intimidation.
"I shout at this person and he's now scared of me. He takes -2 to attack".

Are you saying that intimidation is bad because shouting at someone can't have any mechanical effects?

>>51945315
As we all know, giving advice to someone that happens to improve is 100% magic so long as you didn't devote your full attention to it. When do I get my robe and wizard hat for the 500 times I've corrected someone in the process of fucking up a recipe without even thinking?

>>51945315
>doing something
>not an explicit action
This is some shit bait dude.

>>51945383
Intimidation is using skill so it makes sense in mechanics (even though fighters shouldn't have many skills).

Shouting at someone and it giving +2 just because, that's where mechanics and world disconnect.

>>51945350
>Demoralize Opponent
>You can also use Intimidate to weaken an opponent’s resolve in combat. To do so, make an Intimidate check opposed by the target’s modified level check (see above). If you win, the target becomes shaken for 1 round. A shaken character takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. You can intimidate only an opponent that you threaten in melee combat and that can see you.

oh no shouting at people can't make them scared or bolder this is some bullshit how dare these nonmagical effects do things like give tangible mechanical bonuses

>>51945419
>(even though fighters shouldn't have many skills)
t. Monte Cook
You know that Fighters got the MOST NWPs per level, right?

>>51945419
>Shouting at someone and it giving +2 just because, that's where mechanics and world disconnect.
He's got special training. That's why he can shout at people and do it without a roll.

Are you going to complain about a barbarian getting more muscles when he gets angry? Are you going to complain how a rogue can stab people in their hitpoints better when someone is on the other side of them and no-one else can? Are you going to complain how someone can improbably learn how to fight with swords, bayonets, spears, nunchucks and an ungodly amount of weapons instantly by taking a level of fighter?

Because none of those take rolls either.

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>the party's healer is a 4e Intelligence warlord with 8 Charisma and no social skills training

>the warlord "talks so good" that people's wounds magically seal up without scarring, even the unconscious fighter's injuries, letting them get back into the fight!

Explain this, 4rries.

>>51945435
When you logically think of it it's weird.

Wizards spend time researching, Rogues spend time training their art, Fighters spend time swinging a piece of metal over and over.

>>51945443
>Are you going to complain about a barbarian getting more muscles when he gets angry?
Adrenaline.

>Are you going to complain how a rogue can stab people in their hitpoints better when someone is on the other side of them and no-one else can?
Distraction.

>REEEEEEEEing at someone gives people will to live
Bullshit.

>>51945448
No, when you think logically you realize that Fighters having no skill points makes no fucking sense. Do you think that Roman Legionnaires were untrained retards once a fight ended?

>>51945446
The people were never wounded bad, they just saw blood and started screaming about how the GM is obviously trying to kill them and they should give up now when they had only taken a single 1d8+3 damage.

The warlord gives them a verbal slap and tells them not to be such fucking pansies.

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I'll just save everyone's time and post the page of Martial power 2, page 106

>>51945466
>Do you think that Roman Legionnaires were untrained retards once a fight ended?

You mean "every army ever". Army is where you go when you receive too many blows to the head in childhood.

>>51945464
>REEEEEEEEing at someone gives people will to live

Who's going to be more likely to survive in a fight? Is it going to be force with someone giving commands, or is it going to be a mob who are disorganised and unruly?

Regardless, it seems like you shouldn't play 4E but instead play the Riddle of Steel, because that doesn't have any of this 6 second magic bullshit but has people actually able to stab others and magic takes time, because it's stupid to think you can warp the world with a wave of your hand and saying a few dumb words. If that were actually the case someone would have accidentally said the wrong thing with the wrong hand movement and cast the End Universe spell over the last hundred thousand years.

>>51944508
>inb4 bait mages

>>51945446
Easy. The warlord's heals rely little on any inborn charisma, and are instead the results of countless hours spent training in the art of inspiring others.

Basically, it's like he has a warlord-only inspire skill that's really high.

>>51945446
He uses his intelligence to explain that their wounds aren't actually that deadly and that they should stop being little bitches and get back to the fighting. He does this incredibly bluntly and with no tact, and everyone thinks he's kind of a dick, thanks to the low charisma.

>>51944766
>>51944450
Confirmed dumbfuck civvie.

I agree wholeheartedly with you OP but you're still a faggot for making a thread just to complain about a dead game.

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>>51945446
>wounds
>D&D
>wounds

If you cared this much each hit with a knife would inflict Bloodied or Dying.

Low/no HP is closer to Batman knocking a guy out.

I ask of you, what is it that drives you, anon?

A lust for revenge? A thirst for tears? Perhaps the loneliness of a heart lost to the void, trapped in the knowledge it will never find a game?

Tell me what ails you, and perhaps we shall attain glory for you too one day.

>>51944766
"His guard is weak on the left!" Boom, bonus to attack.
"There's a chink on his helmet!" Boom, bonus to damage.

"I know that stance... Dodge, friend, he's coming for your head!" Boom, bonus to AC.

It's not that hard.

ToB did it better

>>51945883
Strengths and weaknesses of monsters are helpfully listed in monster manual and anyway, they're up to DM, not player.
Oh sure if you just go inventing things i can easily say "oh this goblin has -20 against all save or die spells" and instakill him with my wizard.

>>51945446
Here's the thing.

4e healing surges is implied not to be physical wounds, but a combination of wounds, exhaustion, and general battle-weariness and plot armor.

Otherwise, why would a 'second wind' grant a healing surge? You're not just taking a deep breath so deep that your grievous, bloody wounds seal up. You're taking a moment to rest and refocus on the fight. It's not unimaginable to have someone yell at you to focus, or bellow an unconscious character's name to wake them up.

>>51945917
That was a realism-based reason for why a mundane character's powers could give mechanical boosts, ala warlord. The warlord's well-trained martial skill and knowledge in how fightan' works gives him an intelligence-based insight on shit like that... Meaning that when he uses a power, it's not magic he's saying, but outlining weaknesses in the enemy, coordinating attacks, or giving advice to his allies.

>>51945951
>4e healing surges is implied not to be physical wounds, but a combination of wounds, exhaustion, and general battle-weariness and plot armor.
No, anon, hit points in D&D have always been this. Healing surges was a measure of the pc's stamina and will to succeed in the face of opposition, which is why paladins and fighters had some of the highest counts.

>>51945976
Yeah, I agree. But I know that there's a lot of autists out there who deny that HP was never 'meat points', and I wanted to keep that debate from happening so I focused on 4e mechanics specifically.

>>51945992
Those people got their information from the internet and never looked at that part of the PHB/DMG.
It honestly makes me sorta sad.

>>51944450
Reminds me of a conversation I had during a real 4e campaign:

>NPC: Thank you, adventurers! Our temple's resources are at your disposal. Do you require any healing?
>PC: No thanks, we've got this guy who yells at us.

>>51944450
>Fighters should fight

And the cleric, paladin, monk, ranger, and rogue should also fight, on top of doing other stuff, right?

>>51946029
But it's okay because HP are not meat points, right?

>>51946042
Read the book, it explains it better than a forum.

>>51946042
Out of combat healing you can do without a Warlord anyway.

A temple could do miraculous healing, like reattach limbs or remove curses and shit.

Or, possibly, they have non-surge healing, if that satisfies your autism.

>>51945992
>>51945976
>>51945951
HP was always a combination of general vitality, ability to avoid wounds, and meat. The thing is, even though not all of it is meat, some of it is. In 4e, when you're at half HP or less you have literally started to bleed. In all editions, when you're at 0HP you are critically wounded and it's not all just in your mind. Any effect that can restore HP can heal real injuries, even though that's not always what it is doing.

>>51946059
Not entirely true.
4e has a distinct "Bloodied" status that means a telling blow has been landed, versus the grazing hits and close calls of most strikes.
In 2e/Basic, 0hp meant you had taken a mortal wound that had gotten past your guard, period, and were dead.
In 3e and forward, 0hp meant you had taken a mortal wound and bleeding out. Before 0hp, you were not actually truly injured in a meaningful, debilitating fashion.

>>51945487
This. They call them jarheads for a reason.

>>51946088
Nothing you said contradicts what I said. In 4e, when you're bloodied you have really for real been hit and you're bleeding from it (because a lot of monsters' blood-themed abilities keyed off of whether you were bloodied or not.) At 0HP you have definitely for real been injured or killed and you haven't just lost your "fighting spirit" or whatever.

Also, for the record, AD&D had "death's door" rules for surviving at 0HP and below that most DMs used.

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>>51945471
>>51945589
>>51945711
>>51945797
>>51945951
Then how is the 8 Charisma warlord with no social skills training getting UNCONSCIOUS people to get back up with some words alone?

Checkmate.

>>51946127
"WAKE UP SHITHEAD!"

>>51946127
"maybe if i get up this guy will stop screeching at me"

>>51946127
GET THE FUCK UP

>>51946127
"If you don't get up, our chances of survival drop by 78%... but I'll get 20% more share from the loot"

>>51946127
He prods/kicks them repeatedly/pours water over their faces/shouts at them. If they were in an actual coma they'd be too seriously injured for him to get them back up through shouting. Ergo, they aren't really seriously injured.

>>51946042
HP means two different things, but they're represented by one value. Therefore, a magical healer or a skilled doctor fulfills the same role as a guy who yells at you.

>>51945487
>Someone who has never been in or met anyone in a decent military,

>>51946127
read >>51945486

>>51946360
>Adding the word decent in so you can pull a no true scotsman on any response

Is it really that hard for people to grasp that some can inspire others with just sheer words and presence to make them fight better and turn a battle?

You can ask any soldier and they will tell you of situations where they gave more than they thought they had just because of inspiration of another person present. Not everything has to be magical.

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>>51946491
>sheer words and presence
>8 Cha warlord with no social skills training
>shouting at an unconscious person

>>51946605

If you laid off the anime you wouldn't have this crippling autism, just a tip.

>>51946605
Have you never watched a film or played a game? Hero falls unconcious, wakes up to the sound of someone shouting his name from across the battlefield. Oldest trope in the book. Happens like every 5 minutes in your average CoD campaign.

>>51945496
>thinking magic is just hand waving and sound making
>being this retarded

oh martials, when will you ever learn?

what was that site with all the 4e resources ?
anyone remember ?

Also, warlords are great fun to play, fuck your autism.

>>51946652
When anyone can learn two spells instantly by stabbing 4 goblins, yes.

>>51944450
Warriors should lead and inspire besides kicking ass in melee. 4e did it right even if simplification sounds funny.

4E was shit in so many ways.

I'm glad it died and the people who designed it were fired.

>>51946804
funin.space?

There's also a pastebin, but I'm too lazy to look.

>>51946954
I wish Mearls was fired.

>guaranteed replies

Anyways, 4e was pretty good, and the more I've played 5e, the more I've come to realize the mistakes I made in 4e, how to fix them, and how it would have been better than what I'm currently doing now.

>>51946127
The warlord class implies some training in getting unconscious people back up.

>>51946605
He's not flat out in a coma yet, he's just lying there dazed. Otherwise the Warlord wouldn't have been able to get him back up.

>>51946971
thanks

>>51946119
But 4e and 5e allows death saves so you might not be fatally wounded. You might just get up with 1hp on your turn because it turns out it was only a flesh wound.

>>51944531
'Pic related' is you, dumbass.
Do you really think that a fighter in a magic world wielding a magic sword wearing magic armor and fighting magical fucking dragons that use magic is 'down to earth'?
Are you fucking high?
There are things wrong with 4E. Having people do extraordinary shit as a natural course of events is not one of them.
Or are you one of the fucks that thinks that dragon wings should fail to function in an antimagic field?

>>51944450
HERE'S A THOUGHT
A Warlord is a Fighter who has dabbled in Bardic abilities, like an Eldritch Knight is a Fighter who has dabbled in Wizardry.

Pathfinder bards have "points," which they can spend every round that they're performing to cause literally supernatural effects, completely separate from their ability to cast spells. They can do all sorts of crazy shit from buffs to debuffs to actual attacks.

So just say that Warlords have the same sort of pseudo-magic that bards do, but they've trained to use it exclusively through Perform (Oration), and exclusively to bring out the most in their allies.

Hell, in 5e you can make them Eldritch Knights with a few tweaks:
1) Draw from the bard spell list instead of wizard. Since the spell list is much smaller, don't bother with school restrictions.
2) Replace War Bond with Bardic Inspiration
3) Replace Eldritch Strike by allowing Bardic Inspiration dice to grow from d6 to d8, and give them the Combat Inspiration features from the College of Valor bards.

>>51948334
5e just can't handle warlord. A bard/fighter (like you suggest) is about as good as you can do, but combat for martials is just so fucking boring that the warlord's setup powers are entirely wasted, and he is just not allowed to have shit like Lamb to the Slaughter and Vengeance is Mine.

>>51944813
So your argument is every fighter not getting morale bonuses is just half-assing it? Fighting for their lives is not already the maximum motivation possible?

>>51945446
New York City CPR
you stand over the person in need of services and shout:
"Get up before you fucking die!"

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>>51944766

>>51946127
What does charisma and social skills have to do with getting UNCONSCIOUS people to get back up?

>>51954420
Doing it as a minor action from a distance.

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>Still arguing about a dead edition of D&D
>Still arguing about D&D
>Still playing D&D
>Still shitposting about D&D