What is the most retarded curse ever and why is it "The

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>>51935568
It's not retarded in this case.

I guess immortality could be seen as a curse if it doesn't come with the eternal youth or healing component, but most "who wants to live forever" talk just comes off as sour grapes to me

>>51935568
Immortality is a curse tho.
Literally everything you and your ancestors once found meaningful in life only exist on a limited time scale. Once you go beyond that, you are no longer human.

So I've seen this pop up a couple of times. What is the point of cursing some one with immortality? I can see a bunch of ways that this can be potentially devastating but just as it is on itself it is the dumbest shit ever.
Some of the ways that this can be fucking devastating:
1. Curse some one with immortality and then lock them up with a creative lich torturer. Couple with the curse of sanity so that they can't seek the sweet relief of insanity.
2. Curse with immortality and launch into space.
3. Lock up in an indestructible white featureless room.

I am sure you guys can think of other creative ways that this can be turned into a really awesome curse.

>>51935663
Yeah that's true but think of the possibilities that can happen if you have infinity time on your hands. Your pet project for your spare time can literally be conquer the stars. and you will be able to do it. Cuz you are immortal.

>>51935654
Well that can be true but i mean the more classic meaning of freezing you in your current age and can't be killed by any means.

>>51935568
Because you will be forever locked out of Heaven and God's grace

>>51935568
An interesting thought about immortality, If skin cells fall off on their own accord, Would immortality prevent that?

Think about it, Elephantiasis but ongoing until you would die, But you can't die.

>>51935749
What would be the point?

>>51935568
>what is the curse of immortality
Watching everything you loved die before you can, never being able to love someone becuase they will die and if you can breed your children will die and you will need to watch them. You eventually realize this you end up living alone disconnected from the world unable to relate to any other human, as you will surpass them In knowledge and wisdom in a matter of centuries.

Assuming the levels of immortality you may not need to eat or drink so food no longer becomes meaningful, what are you to do with your time once you have read everything done everything. You are forced to walk around as an empty soul forced to bare witness to the end of the universe, isolated, alone, and with out any connection to a living being.

>>51935859
Nihilists exist among the mortal population. Most of them don't just want to kill themselves.

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>>51935568

Having to watch them remake all your favorite movies over and over again, each time worse than the last.

>>51935568
Is it the immortality where you can't be killed or the immortality where you don't age. If you can't be killed then have fun after heat death of the universe

>>51935928
If it's ye olde medieval setting, sooner or later people find out something fishy about you and rumours spread. You become shunned, and once the first peasant mob fails to burn you on a stake (you don't die!), you either get exiled or bound with chains in a dark dungeon, forgotten by all.

If it's a modern setting, sooner or later the government notices that there's a 200 year old guy paying taxes. Or not paying taxes, so they send an investigation. Or using fake ID to prevent the problem, and being caught by the cops. Once they find out that there is an immortal, get ready to be captured and aggressively researched at some hidden facility.

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>>51935568
>Immortality
>Not a curse
At first it sounds cool. You don't get to deal with your fragile body and mind, you don't get things like aching bones or cancer or alzheimer or decaying teeth and you get to do all the cool shit there is in the world. You get to watch humanity advance, invent new shit and you get to see the rise and fall of new empires.

And then you get to experience the extinction of mankind. And the planet becoming unsustainable to life. And the sun exploding. And new stars and planets being formed with minimal chance of being able to even sustain life, let alone actually have life (abiogenesis is impossible to our knowledge). And let's not forget about floating around in space for literally billions of years before the universe ends. Best case scenario: heat death, which translates to you floating around forever in literal nothingness. Worst case scenario: big crunch, and your entire body (as well as literally the entire fucking universe) is compressed into an impossibly tiny point. Can you even begin to imagine how that feels? Imagine being compressed into a 1cm by 1 cm cube by a machine and somehow surviving that. Now imagine that on a billions and billions times smaller scale.

I don't care what kind of cool shit we as a species invent in 200 years, I'd rather die right now than experience all of that.
>>51935795
If only because you never actually die. Even if the material world disappears, you still live by the most extensive definition of immortality.

>>51936043

What if you're not immortal, you just don't age, is it still a curse?

>>51935928
>Watching everything you loved die before you can
That's not a problem exclusive to immortals. People outlive their loved ones die all the time and they usually choose to continue living. You know the saying, it's better to have loved and lost?

>>51936034
>Once they find out that there is an immortal, get ready to be captured and aggressively researched at some hidden facility.

That's why you go public with immortality and volunteer your services to help other people achieve greater longevity, if not immortality. Make it all very public, make yourself the hero who wants to share your gift with the world. The scientists and government get what they want and they have incentive not to disappear you to some secret research facility in Area 51.

>>51936034
I have actually thought about the logistics of how to get away with it, the only way I could think is you start in the Middle Ages to acrew your fortune in gold so come modern times you are loaded. Use a "life time" to set up your castle basically, be competently off grid, and then pay some one off to manage the money

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>>51935568
DESU OP, I don't really care about your bait since we had a thread about it a few days ago: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/51824115/

But I would very much like to strangle the graphic designer who made your image.

>>51936075
>What if you're not immortal, you just don't age, is it still a curse?
Guess not. You'd still have to deal with everyone around you dying, but you'd probably get over it and become a jaded and disconnected hermit adventurers can come to visit to ask about the good ol' days before [non-descript cataclysm]. What's important is having a way out when humanity/life as we know it ends.

>>51936082
>People outlive their loved ones die all the time
Most parents don't outlive their children, and the ones that do are usually broken for life. It's natural to outlive your parents, but not to outlive your children.

Immortality is often a curse because most people we don't know how to truely live, death doesn't make life have meaning how you live it does. However, you are likely to go insane at some point so there is that.

>>51936124
Pretty much.

If your setting isn't stuck at iron age for millenia like most bad fantasy settings, sooner or later it will be incredibly difficult to keep this kind of thing under control.

Every 1st world country had citizen ID for like a century now, give or take. It's not too much of a leap to think that at some point every citizen will be chipped or otherwise accounted for.

Immortality is not a curse. With enough time and resources, you can transcend our conceptual limits of technology and science to being a god being, creating new universes and physical laws at your whim.

With this power, you could even set everything to your liking and then make yourself ''forget" who you are for a set amount of time so you can live an infinite number of lives and never get bored.

Maybe you already have.

>>51936185
>>51936185
Which is why you would need to be off grid or have basically a trust family who is bound to you and you pay for everything

>>51935568

watch highlander and you will understand why immortality sucks

>>51936317
To become capable of being off the grid, you'd have to actually participate in the system at some point. If you become immortal today, you either do crime to keep it less traceable and risk being caught and put into the system forcibly or do it through legitimate means and essentially put yourself into the system.

And if you become immortal at medieval age, chances, unless you're of higher class or a monk who spent all his life at a monastery, you're a peasant who doesn't know how to read. Good luck with that - all you'll know is how to live off the land, and educating yourself would involve interacting with society which will get you noticed at some point. And social mobility isn't generally a thing, so good luck...

Dice+2d6

>>51936353
this

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>>51935683
Watch this film and tell me again that the concept of immortality can't be made frightening.

>>51935663
Yes, and?

Is that supposed to be scary, sad or something else? We have a lot of things today that are vastly different from what our ancestors, or even our grandparents had.

I look it like this: Imagine if constant pain was something you had to endure. Every day, 5 at noon, you'd be punched in the balls.

This would be what your ancestors had to endure. This is what you have to endure. People would have made poetry, plays, songs and movies about the inevitability and poignant beauty of being banged in the ball sack.

Now, someone comes along and says "Hey, what if, you didn't have to get battered jewels every day? Wouldn't that be a curse? I mean, you would take away something that makes us human. You wouldn't be able to appreciate the life without a constant hammering of the precious."


That's how I view death. It's some inevitable shovel punch to the dick, that does no good to anyone.

No one has survived death, and that's just sad.

>>51935795
You don't have to die to go to heaven.

>>51935568
Oh immortality is all fine and dandy until you realize your ass will still be around doing fuck knows what at the heat death of the universe and everything will be perpetually shit from there on cause you will have to agonizingly endure whatever the shit post heat death, this is ignoring the day to day shit, like at some point in the future the government figures out your immortal and proceeds to capture and study your ass to figure out immortality of its own regard, or how to remove it.
theres all kinds of reasons why immortality is shit, its fine and dandy now, but the way this particular curse works is by looking at the future and knowing full damn well bad things are inevitably down the road.

>>51935568
I feel like it only becomes a curse once you get to the "everyone can have it" stage. If YOU and nobody else is immortal, you just won the biological fucking lottery, you now have an excuse to go around being God compared to the commonfolk.

Overpopulation is gonna be a bitch once every Average Joe can afford it though.

>>51935683
>What is the point of cursing some one with immortality?

To make them experience the unending shit of life. The exact curse depends on the mechanism of immortality but typically ennui or endless punishment are the stick.

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>>51935568
I pity you if you're not imaginative enough to see why immortality could become unfortunate eventually.

See smug anime girl.

>>51936932
40000 years into the future, the human race dies out. You're left by yourself in an empty world.

Do you know what happened to sailors, who got stranded by themselves on an uninhabited island? After a few years you will probably forget how to speak. You will go insane, with only voices within your head for company.

>>51936043
>You don't get to deal with your fragile body and mind

I'd like to interject that you still need to deal with the minds failings. Rather, at some point you will go crazy. The only difference is that you will also at some point get over it.

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>>51935568
Immortal is not indestructible or unstoppable, enjoy having your limbs cut if and serving as a demons torture toy and cocksleeve for the rest of time, so yeah immortality could majorly suck.

>>51935568
Any kind of curse where it's actually a ridiculous power boost or else massively punishes the people around the cursed
>"You have profaned my temple, I curse you with becoming a vampire! You shall suffer with being nigh immortal and unstoppable and driven to kill loads of other people, who can't do anything about it because of all the amazing abilities this curse comes with. But after hundreds of years you'll get bored! Ha!"

>>51937225
it's even worse
because you will eventually live long enough to go crazy again
and then get over it again
and AGAIN

>>51936433
Yeah, but in medieval ages its way easier to just drop off the grid. go a couple towns over and no one knows you. for all intents and purposes, you are just some traveler staying at a bar.

>>51937243
You're thinking pretty small.
For one thing curses may be intended to be more far reaching than an individual. Turning some cunt into a vampire and making him a curse upon his own kind can be a god punishing humanity as a whole.

Alternatively if death isn't the end then people dying isn't as big of a deal as some guy getting his soul turned inside out and becoming a monster who will never know peace

>>51937277
Yes, the villages where everyone knows everyone else, and you are shunned for being a stranger.

>>51937329
Yeah, but you are fucking immortal. Who cares about those guys. Yeah, you are a stranger, but many markets in major cities rely on tourism and such. A traveler is not that odd an occurrence that people would take notice of it more than "oh, there's a new dude at the inn. He'll probably only be there a day or two" and fuck off back to their fields.

>>51937225
>immortal
>mind failing
Pick one

>>51937353
>Off the grid
>Major city
Pick one.

>>51935568
It could be a curse. Let's day you are truely immortal. I mean NOTHING can kill you. Sure, things will be good for awhile....until all life goes extinct for whatever reason. You'll also survive the sun going supernova, and left to endlessly drift around in space, all alone and with nothing to do. Eventually, after billions on years, you will get to witness the death of the universe, and get to sit all alone in complete nothing.

>>51937368
you aren't very bright, are you?

No one knows your name. Simply wandering through, you can make up a fake name, fake anything, and get in. You could be fucking anyone and almost no one would care.

Seriously, the "Grid" in medieval times implies you stay around long enough for people to actually remember you. Come back in 20 years, no one will think a thing of it. Different name, same face, people will just think it an odd coincidence, if they even remember the last time you were there.

Seriously, you are giving medieval people way more credit than you should.

>>51937395
What if you're stuck in a Prometheus type situation?

>>51937395
That's why, assuming Heat Death is the way things are going to go, you build while you can, you build yourself a space ship/station full of people, and you get them out into deep space, never to set foot on a planet again, and you become a tiny god of that space ship, teaching and learning from those people. You power this ship with manpower, recycling everything.
You have millennia, eons even, to plan and build it out, it's totally possible to create a space station that operates on a perfect cycle of life and death to keep yourself entertained through the heat death of the universe

>>51937355
With immortality, there's two possibilities for the mind. Either you are stuck in that same point like your body is, so you are like that guy that forgot his wife every time she walked in, or your brain still processes information.

Either way, your mind is failing. With the former, its already failed. You can't process information because the immortality kicks out the change to your brain.

In the latter, your mind will eventually fail because the human brain is built on hundreds of small failings. To put it into computer terms, you'd eventually blue screen. Then you'd need to wipe the drive and reboot from a more stable backup.

Either way, your mind is fucked.

>>51937243
Normal people would actually hate being turned into a monster that preys on humans.

Vampires, werewolves, etc are all examples of body horror. You're cut off from the normal human experience, likely forever, and you're forced to prey on your own kind until you turn into an uncaring monster and actually revel the experience.

Watch Interview with the Vampire.

>>51937466
So the immortality prevents the biological failings of the everything except the brain because ???

>>51937505
Thats what i said. Either it stops the biological failings in the brain, I.E you become forget man, or it for some reason doesn't and you are still capable of processing information, which eventually causes you to go crazy.

Either way, you are fucked.

>>51937505
brain has limited capacity for memory.
it's not a problem until you live for a few centuries, then it's definitely a problem.

and what, immortality should also make you safe from going insane? that's way more than simple immortality.

>>51937464
>it's totally possible to create a space station that operates on a perfect cycle

It's not though.
There's always going to be entropy.

>>51935623
No-one got this?

>>51937628
okay, except you're immortal, which means you don't need to intake energy if we're going with the version of immortality that makes you no longer need to eat/drink
which means you could, in theory, fight against entropy

>>51937505
Your brain doesn't fail, it just runs out of room.
Arguing for infinity memory capacity is like arguing for unlimited burst strength.

>>51937656
You could, no one else.
This leads to the being left alone forever in an infinite cold void thing.

>>51937595
>brain has limited capacity for memory.
I've seen pictures of brains before and they definitely don't look like hard drives.

>>51937628
At that point you will most likely have managed to achive nirvana.

>Death gives life meaning
Gargle my balls. Death removes meaning.

>>51937690
Forgive me if I'm being an idiot, but if you're powering a space station by riding a stationary bike along with everyone else, thus adding to the energy without taking from it, wouldn't that prevent the whole "being alone" thing?
I... kinda don't get the idea of heat death in relation to structures, would they fall apart at the molecular level or something?

>>51937713
Nirvana is death for all purposes.

>>51937769
riding a stationary bike doesn't create free energy.
you eat food (chemical energy) which adds to your body's innate reserve, and then you use that energy to generate electricity by riding a bike generator.

it's not a perfect energy transfer because some energy turns into heat, sound, etc.

>Edgy 15 year old 4chan 'intellectuals' try to prove that all the masters of art, literature, and philosophy for the majority of human existence who said that immortality would be more of a curse then a blessing
>"I-It's sour grapes! Who cares if you have to watch all your friends and family die, who cares if you can't get attached to anyone or anything? I'd find ways of entertaining myself forever obviously lol!'

>>51937769
Riding a bike really doesn't produce that much energy.
You could keep the light on for a little while longer, but eventually even the bike you're riding on is going to succumb to entropy and fall apart.

>>51936082
What about those people who lose their soulmate and never get over it?

>>51937854
this is also why all those "cold, detached mercenary who is 100% efficient and has no friends or family" characters are cancer.

connections to other humans make you human. you've created a statblock monster.

>>51937871
If somebody is immortal, the heart will heal.

>>51935749

Being immortal doesn't make you a super-genius. Yes, you have unlimited time to learn, but your brain is still human- If you can't do complex spatial equations and figure out a unified field theory now, you're probably not going to be the one to do it 2000 years from now.

And even if you do, there's the heat death of the universe looming in the future. If this is one of those 'immortality = can't die from any means' things, you're eventually going to be trapped in the center of an unfathomably dense point in space, subjected to an eternity of crushing agony.

>>51935654
There's always the fact that you have an eternity of floating through the vast void space when everything breaks down leaving only iron stars to look forward to.

>>51937854
If I could live forever, I'd have forever to come to terms with it

>>51935568
theres pretty much nothing wrong with it, as long as you can get over the fact that everyone you love will die before you. that doesn't mean you can't make new friends constantly. I imagine this is what elves have to do when they become friends with humans.

>achieve immortality
>get captured by enemies
>they encase you in molten silver
>throw you in the ocean

There are downsides, clearly.

>>51937395
true but you'll also get to witness the birth of the new universe because science and shit.

>>51937830
well yes, but if you don't need to eat food, then you'd create more energy than you use
>>51937867
there's gotta be a solution to entropy man, I refuse to believe all of existence will eventually fall apart into dust

>>51938048
>be encased in molten silver for 10000 years
>get discovered by chance
>emerge a god
>track down the descendants of the ones who trapped you
>unleash plagues and strife on them
I really don't see a downside to this

>>51936075
>What if you're not immortal, you just don't age, is it still a curse?

Not unless you get spiritual with it.

Both time and strength are limited.
If time is no longer limited but strength remains so then you will eventually succumb to baseness.
For example if god is real and hates faggots then if you finally decide to experiment at the age of 1004 you'll end up on his shit list all the same.

>>51938072

Your mind will have surly deteriorated into unthinking catatonia by then.

>>51937854
>Who cares if you have to watch all your friends and family die
Everyone's family dies. They handle it fine.
Having a friend die sucks but people get over it and remember them.
Who says you can't get attached to anyone? Do you live the person you love the moment they get diagnosed with cancer and you know they'll die before you?
Humans are innately creatures of habit. There are normies that could go on doing the same thing day in and day out for an eternity and they don't realize how empty and hollow their lives truly are. An immortal will just take advantage of this fact in human behavior and exist with it.
Literally the only problem with immortality is the break down of the universe.

>>51935568
Watching everyone you love die one day forever would legit suck, especially if you believed in the afterlife.

Friends, lovers, children, pretty heartbreaking desu

>>51935568
I dont know about you, but floating in a black featureless void after all energy and matter have faded for uncountable numbers of years until by random chance quantum tunneling creates a new universe doesnt seem fun to me

>>51938178

Might be a cool bbeg origin.

>the first lich. older than the stars. keeper of profane knowledge from before the world was wrought.

>>51938138
speak for yourself. Most of the doom and gloom comes from being completely alone, which believe it or not some people are good at handling. If I was drifting through the nothingness of space, earth long gone after our sun imploded, knowing I will be completely alone until I through chance get pulled into another planets orbit and fall into it like a meteor. I would still not be worried because I know for a fact that I can't die. Imagine a human with zero fear, completely zero fear of death.

How do you think you end up with immortal aberrations that seemingly want to destroy the existence and kill all people?

>>51938235

Its not about handling loneliness, there just is a bare minimum of stimulation your brain needs to continue functioning.

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>>51935568
This man gets what a gift that it truly is.

>>51938178
>>51938228
The new universe could have completely different laws of physics and constants and shit. Same deal with a false vacuum collapse
How much would it suck to be in a universe you can't understand and shouldn't be able to exist in

Curse of everything is extremely slippery to walk on.

Curse of always need to pee but can't pee.

Curse of hiccups.

Curse of always feel like there's something right above your head you're about to bump into.

>>51938271
again tho, some people are good at entertaining themselves and keeping their shit together. not everyone would come out of a 1 billion year drift through space and be a sane functional person, but some people might. and we haven't even gotten into the potential of gaining cosmic super powers from being immersed in direct radiation from other suns/stars

>>51935568
What don't die can't live

>>51938013
Who cares

Being insane is still better than being dead

>>51938329
>fap into the void of dead space for eternity

>>51938329
>but some people might

I doubt that.
A year is solitary wrecks everyone.
And you'd be infinitely more alone than even that.

>>51938271
I achieve Amaranth in the depths of space, and become the Godhead.

>>51938345
>you've been dead for 4 billion or so years until you were born
>the horror!

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>>51938299
>How much would it suck to be in a universe you can't understand and shouldn't be able to exist in
Mildly bothering I would imagine.

>>51936034
Sandman has a story like that:
Some guy says dying is overrated, so dreamn grants him immortality on the condition they met every 100 years in the same tavern and see if he still thinks "dying is overrated"
At times he becomes rich, other times he lost it all and is poor as shit.
Later on dream visits him and he dreams about fixing a long dead queen's computer.

>>51937638
i did

>>51938357
The human mind is adaptable. I mean, sure, you might go loopy for a few years, maybe even get really crazy, but assuming you don't run into any bullshit like limited memory space or whatever, you have literally all the time you need to work out your issues and master yourself.

I maintain that any arguments against 'perfect' immortality are basically just sour grapes or small-minded people who are afraid of being forced by virtue of eternity to face down their own demons.

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>>51938554
Approved.

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>>51937064
You just need an escape clause, Mr. Bedeker! Sign right here on the dotted line.

>>51938299
You literally become a Great Old One.

Wouldn't that be a hell of a thing. You're a relic from a past universe that cannot mesh with the new one in any real way. The inhabitants of that universe cannot perceive your true form because it cannot exist in their reality. Your thoughts are alien, completely and utterly beyond anything they can imagine, because your thoughts are based on principles that simply cannot exist, exacerbated by billions of years of consideration.

Even if you find some way to properly interface with those beings, any hope of camaraderie is crushed because you are effectively Nyarlathotep. They think on such a small scale that they're basically ants, and you have a magnifying glass.

>>51936316
What self-respecting immortal god-being would reincarnate itself as ME? I'm literally the worst option I can think of for that sort of thing.

>>51938369
If you have no preference for existing vs not existing, you should go ahead and kill yourself now

>>51938637
Holy shit that's gold. You put much thought into this or can I steal this idea for my Homebrew game and my Quest?

>>51936034
Or, third option - you kidnap people for your eternal rape dungeon in the sewers.

>>51938713
hi /pol/

>>51938731
/pol/ isn't ritzy enough to rate living in the sewers. Maybe hanging with the CHUDs if the crazies in /x/ are subletting.

>>51938731
Sewer rape dungeons for eternity have nothing to do with ethnic cleansing last I heard. I mean you could probably take it that route if you wanted to, but the core premise is race and politics-free.

>>51938772
>sewer rape dungeons
>emphasis on the sewers

/pol/

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>all these people thinking outside of the big picture

You make me sick. You're not realizing how fast technology is moving. If you become immortal, you could be around for when humanity transcends humanity and can completely alter their physical form. That means you, motherfucker. You can live long enough to see our entire race become actual gods, and then become one yourself. Universe about to collapse inward on itself? Make a new one.

Assuming your mind and body doesn't decay with this "curse", if anything it only improves with time, you could potentially become skilled in almost everything with enough practice. You could invent the procedure yourself to become a god. And once you can control your emotions, your humane side, boredom is no longer a factor. You will have technology, medicine, everything to assist in you transcending humanity. The only difference is you won't be waiting for the technology to be invented before your biological clock stops ticking. You'd probably find out what is keeping your immortal too, and reverse engineer it if you wanted to die.

But really the best immortality solution is just the one where you stop aging.

>>51938731
>>51938792
Fuck off with your boogeyman, you tool.

>>51938809

well

degeneracy and /pol/ go hand-in hand, right?

>>51938809
>transhumanism

hoo boy

>>51935568
Can't speak for anyone else here, but.

I can barely muster the motivation to work out once every three months or so now. Making it so I literally couldn't die of sloth and gluttony? I wouldn't even have to feel guilty anymore.

On the other hand, it'd also give /fit/ infinite time to convince me I'll enjoy the feeling of expending vast amounts of energy to make no progress like back in high school.

>>51938792
My god you're fucking retarded.

>>51938809
>You're not realizing how fast technology is moving.

You don't realise how little it matters.
You think the universe will simply drop its drawers and bend over for men in lab coats.
But no. Technology is great but it is not and never will be pure handwavium.

Time dilation nigga.

Immortality is terrible because the longer you live, the shorter each year becomes proportionately.

Let's say the average person lives to 100. At 100 years old, each year is relatively 1/100th of their life, and 10 years is 1/10th their life. For a 10 year old, one year is 1/10th of their life, which is why children are so impatient. 5 minutes is a short amount of time for an adult, but an eternity for a child.

Now let's amp this up. At 1000 years, 100 years is 1/10th of your life, proportionately the same as 1 year for a 10 year old. As you get even older, let's say 100,000 years, 1000 years is the equivilant of 10 years for a 100 year old, and 1 year for a 10 year old.

Why does this matter? How in the fuck is the 100,000 year old guy supposed to interact with anyone or any thing? It would take a hilariously long time for them to even process basic interaction based on the same principle. That sounds like the worst thing ever, to watch everyone die, and then to live so long you can't interact with anyone or anything.

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>>51938369
Having tasted the waters drawn from the stream of consciousness, I am loathe to let loose the grip I hold upon this mortal coil, for what is death but a return to dust, a fall from paradise, a dissolution of the meaning you have carved for yourself?

To have embraced life, only to know that it will end, to be forced to let it go, is far more bitter than to have never known it at all. We tell ourselves otherwise, but we lie. Fear of the dark and the unknown is writ upon our hearts like a cliff carved by the tide. Is it any wonder we spend our entire lives trying in vain to come to terms with that?

We rage against the injustice of oblivion, we grasp at every second we can claim, but how this world harries us! Precious time which could be spent living, are trickled away trying to make peace with this great, uncaring enemy.

>>51938696
Go for it, man. I'm just waxing poetic.

>>51938923
Life is an opportunity, given freely. Enjoy it for what it is.

>>51938910
They brought this up in God Emperor of Dune. Leto II was over 3,000 years old and he was starting to lose track of time in human terms (being able to perceive the past, present and all possible futures simultaneously probably didn't help either). He hardly noticed that ten years had gone by when he was reminded of his decennial imperial parade.

>>51938910
No, you fucker, that's not how it works. Just because you live 1000 years doesn't mean you take 10 times longer to process a thought than a 100 year old.

It's more about the significant events in your life and your perception of when they happened. You don't just stop being able to follow conversations.

>>51935568
I think people who say that immortality isn't a curse must be sociopaths
>you will see everyone you care about die
>lol who cares you can live forever!1!!11!

>>51938977
Life with a promised end is a cruelty beyond imagining, definitive proof of an unjust or insane universe. Freely given, but pay no attention to the Sword of Damocles that hangs, just beyond your sight.

>>51939038
I just assume they're stupid or don't have the experience to know how painful losing a loved one really is. Imagine knowing for a fact that every single person you'll ever befriend will die and you won't. It'd be enough to at the very least make a person withdrawn from meaningful social interaction eventually.

>>51936009
>If you can't be killed then have fun after heat death of the universe

I will. I'll just wait for the Kalpa to start anew and be a god this time.

>>51939038
They generally fall closer to the spectrum than outside of it, but just because people are good at moving past loss and don't really form permanent connections doesn't make them a sociopath. Schizoid, maybe.

>>51939038
This.

You can see people who were growing up in the 50s and 60s see modern day as a horrible chaotic mess where everything is immoral and wrong. And those people actually participated in society during the past 50 years.

Now imagine a stone age person seeing modern society.

Overwhelming individualism is a total cancer - every person is a product of their surroundings, and intimately tied to them. You're not as unique and special and free as you think, you're a product of times and circumstances.

>>51938910
No, dude. That's to do with the number of important milestones you reach as you age, you have much more "firsts" and important impressionistic experiences when you're young and growing up than when you're past the age of 40, so the ticks on the timeline of your memory begin to space further apart.

>>51937205
>implying that's not rad as fuck

>>51939031
Patrician taste anon. I particularly liked the idea of ancestral memories. When you have all accumulated knowledge of a person's genealogical history, how could you be anything but incredibly condescending? I thought it was super neat how he kept bringing back the Duncans, even though he knew they would betray them in the same way, and he was actually looking forward to the "fluke" Duncan that does something different.

>>51939037
>this guy who literally doesn't understand the concept I was talking about
It's not that he'd talk slower, it's that he would physically percieve time at such a rapid rate relative to a normal person it'd be next to impossible to figure out what the hell anyone is talking about.

The world around you would literally speed up to the point where time is indecipherable on a small scale, much like the same way it's impossible for us to perceive time at the same rate as a single celled organism.

>>51939100
Sour Grapes

>>51938923
That view of mortality only occurs if you have a twisted view of reality in the first place.

>>51939038
Why do you presume people that wish for immortality would not wish for immortality for others as well?

>>51939149
A single celled organism doesn't perceive time at all, that's a blatant false equivalency.

An hour is an hour, a day is a day. A day doesn't become shorter than a day because you are really old, it just feels shorter in retrospect. In the moment, your perception is perfectly fine.

>>51939124
>>51939124
This brings up an entirely new can of worms.

Humans only have a finite capacity for memory. As you get older, your brain fills up, and then you lose some old knowledge to make room for new knowledge. Now, as you accumulate these milestones, eventually earlier milestones would be removed, until you reach a point where you're understanding of experience is intrinsically separate from your actual experiences, because your brain can't physically contain the accumulated information of all your experience.

It'd be all post-modernism up in that bitch, where you only know your own experiences based on your experiences that incorporate them. Unless you have a super brain, then you're basically something entirely nonhuman.

>>51938977
Opportunity is nothing more than a chance for fortune. Why be happy with a century, when you could strive for infinity?

The greatest of men never settle for what they have.

>>51938568
>>51939153
You're like the theoretical immortality equivalent of the kind of delusional pussy on /k/ that's never done shit but thinks they're hard as fuck and would totally wreck those guys.

>>51939164
Are you implying my subjective view of reality is somehow erroneous? Because I can claim exactly the same about you for being 'okay' with the idea of death, even though I believe that this acceptance stems from a lie that you and everybody like you tells yourself to avoid facing the demon of your own mortality.

>>51939232
If you're immortal, you're no longer human.

>As you get older, your brain fills up, and then you lose some old knowledge to make room for new knowledge.
That's factually not how human memory works.

>>51938923

Is this from something?

>>51939232
'Immortal, but limited memory' is just as much bullshit as being immortal but not having eternal youth

>>51939232

Try to remember that one Wednesday in class, in 1st grade. You can't? But it only happened some decades ago.

Now try to remember something that happened 4000 years ago, and the last 300 of them you spent with just voices in your head. Too bad about that nuclear war that wiped off all of humanity.

You are a gibbering, eternal madman.

And the only every-day occurrence are the voices in your head

>>51939229
Anon, I'm literally saying the opposite of what you're saying.

Yes, time speeds up, because perception of time is relative to accumulated experiences, and the duration of those experiences. A day is a day in the sense that it's an "objective" measurement of non-human activities that can be used to determine a schedule. The perception of a "day" is relative to the activities your doing and the previous days you've experienced. The more days you've been a part of, the shorter each day is relative to your lifespan, and the more you participate in activities, the shorter the perception of the duration of those activities are.

>>51939264
Semantics. Knowledge over time works exactly that way, where you only remember the specific knowledge you need to complete the tasks required for your existence.

>>51939264
>If you're immortal, you're no longer human.
Are you, though? Is modern man less human than our paleolithic ancestors because we have conquered many of the death's that they fell prey to?
Predation.
Poor weather.
Plague.

Every year the list of things which kill man shrinks (with age being one of the paramount deaths), and we live longer and longer. Are we less human because of it?

What if man one day lived to be ten thousand years old, before medicine could no longer sustain him? Is he still human?
What of men who live to a million? Are they still human?

At what point does a man become inhuman due to sufficiently long life?

>>51938910
>>51939149
>this meme
So does 1 hour to a 20 year old feel like 2 hours to a 10 year old? 4 hours to a 5 year old?

Does an hour for you feel like 7.5 minutes to a 40 year old? Get real.

>>51939307
>I live in moving goalposts fantasy land
To be fair, I agree with you, but that's only because it makes more narrative sense. I prefer to think of it as "it takes you so long to remember things you did a long time ago, that you can't instantly recall them on demand."

>>51939260
>my subjective view of reality
There is no such thing. Humans are not special snowflakes with special private information.

>>51939326
When the Alzheimers that inevitably kicks in at around the 120 mark (or younger) finally reduces him to a non-sapient flesh-potato.

>>51939333
Relative to your lifespan it does. Because you're sarcastically using math to prove your point doesn't mean you understand the concept of relative perception over time. You can't quantify it literally in those terms, but in terms of perceived duration of experience, it literally works like that.

>>51939251
Not really. It doesn't matter how weak or strong you are when you literally have infinite time to get over your problems. Don't be a retard.

>>51939333
>40
Meant to say 80. It doesn't work that way regardless.

>>51939326
They would only be human if there was a sustained human society surrounding them. Your humanity is defined by the human society, if you are completely removed from it you're only a Homo Sapiens.

Criminals who stay in solitary for years are batshit insane. Rare examples of humans who were brought up without any interaction with society are animal-like retards who can't really be integrated into society.

>>51939367
How can you believe that reality is objective when making that judgement inherently affects the judgement itself?

You're trying to justify a system from inside of the system. Please tell me you can see the flaw in that.

>>51939376
We're assuming that the prime life of the individual is extended as well, anon, along with degenerative neural diseases having had some progress in being cured.

Would an immortal man who was still sapient and sane be considered human?

>>51939381
>I-I COULD HANDLE IT, I-I SWEAR, L-LOOK HOW TOUGH I AM

>>51939376
The brain fails for the exact same reason every other part of the body fails: scar tissue build up in the cardiovascular system. Anything that would make the body stable for longer would extend to the brain.

>>51939380
Does an hour for you feel like 7:30 to an 80 year old? You seem to think it does with:
>The world around you would literally speed up to the point where time is indecipherable on a small scale
As if somebody literally loses the ability to accurately count how long a few seconds is.

>>51939355
No goalpost was moved because that wasn't what the discussion was about, as far as I am concerned. I've been talking about a theoretical 'perfect immortality', wherein you have an infinite (but not eidetic) memory, you cease ageing, recover from any physical damage attained, but otherwise follow all human limits.

>>51939435
Then you have to ask why things like memories are retained.
How is it that your brain can continue to develop and learn and remember (infinitely, apparently) without the inherent problems of memory and development? You can only get good at things because there's a large amount of "undedicated" neurons in your brain that can be easily rewritten with repetition. How does immortality give you infinite chunks of undedicated brain?

>>51935973
Well done, your post made the comic defunct. You're a shitposter and that is a very shit post.

>>51939437
>he couldn't handle it

Stay weak, peasant

>>51939419
It's literally impossible to believe otherwise. To "believe" means the existence of "truth" has already been accepted. To "act" means that an external world has already been accepted.

>>51939466
Might as well just say that your "perfect immortality" changes the part of humans that makes us go insane with even short periods of isolation and be done with it.
A normal human mind is not equipped for even a few months of no-socialization boredom. If your immortality has that many functions, go whole hog and get rid of that aspect too.

>>51939500
Not at all. By contemporary definitions, you can believe something while maintaining the idea that it might be entirely false.

I believe in the reality of an external world, I just don't trust that we can perceive it in any objective fashion. I work with what my flawed perception provides me, because I have no other option, but that doesn't mean I don't believe that the perception is flawed. There is nothing contradictory about these ideas.

>>51939544
Dunno man, most everything else in the thread trucks with my definition.

I guess I was wrong to dump on your idea though, I just don't really find it very interesting because it basically just leads to a regular person. If you can't remember anything at all of what happened 200 years ago, are you really all that different from a very healthy 150 year old?

>>51939613
You can't doubt the thing that enables you to doubt in the first place.

>>51939666
Yeah right Satan. Nice try.

>>51939666
Possibly true, that would also be attempting to justify a cycle from within a cycle.

But I'm not doubting my mind, which is what allows me to doubt. I'm doubting my perception.

>>51939642
It's an inherent problem with physical memory. There's literally a finite amount of space in your brain to store things.

>>51936353
Being rich, White and having sex with hot women for 400 years isn't all that bad.

>>51939666
>Hypocrite that you are, for you trust the chemicals in your brain to tell you they are chemicals.

>>51939666
Are you absolutely sure of that, Satan?

>>51939698
Why believe your mind is perfect while your senses are not?

>>51939716
"Mind" is not actually a fitting term here, and this is why this argument never goes anywhere: there isn't a proper vocabulary to discuss it with.

>>51939716
Because I have no choice

I don't believe my mind is perfect. I merely believe it's the only thing I can trust not to lie to me, that only my internal logic can be objective. Everything else is subjective.

>>51939849
That's literally the opposite of what objective means you do realize right?

>>51936082
>People outlive their loved ones die all the time and they usually choose to continue living.
Plenty just die of ennui as well.

>>51939849
>I merely believe it's the only thing I can trust not to lie to me
Boy, do I have some bad news for you. Memory in particular is is absolutely full of complete fabrications. If your mom started to talk about an event from your childhood, chances are that you'd be able to dredge up fuzzy "memories" of it, even if it was a lie.

>>51939877
But it's not.

Solipsism, motherfucker.

>>51939912
Shitty meme philosophy, try again.

>>51939849
Here's a mindfuck: there is no reason to believe that the "undoubtable thing" each conscious human is familiar with, is not the same one for all of them.

>>51939907
You may lack sapience if you truly don't understand what he is talking about.

>>51939944
Your mind lies to itself all the time, about everything. Self-deception is not a rare event.

>>51939928
He already outed himself as a solipsist, every argument is going to slide right off

>>51939996
You mean anon truly is rubber in a universe of glue? My non-descriptive nondenominational being of higher purpose and power that may or may not exist!

>>51939976
Or perhaps your mind is the only thing that isn't lying, because everything is still following consistent internal logic, while perception of the world beyond the self is flawed, or even non-existent.

Doubting your own mind won't get you anywhere.

So I watched this Korean drama in where the main char was cursed with pretty much that, immortality (he was wronged, betrayed and on top of that got his loved ones killed) and has to walk the Earth knowing everyone he loves ends dying.

Take into account that in this drama heaven exists and so do souls so when someone dies it goes to heaven with their loved ones and eventually can even reincarnate and meet again, etc.

It was pretty depressing, and even the "happy" ending was pretty sour too.

>>51940045
Anon believes that none of us exist and that he is actually arguing with himself in order to further his knowledge of himself.

Solipsism should be considered a mental disorder.

>>51940076
I was merely making a lame joke, and not even my first of the night, however I suppose another standard lame joke is that just being on 4chan should be considered a mental disorder, yadda yadda, etc.

>>51940076
Rejecting solipsism and accepting cartesian doubt necessarily results in panentheism.

>>51940063
If you think about it, you'll remember some times that your mind lied to you.
Or maybe you won't, because you're deceiving yourself into believing that you've never deceived yourself. It's insidious like that.

>>51940122
We've reached an impasse, I'm afraid.

>>51940141
We? There is no "we". There is only "I".

>>51940076
It's an easy enough solution. All he has to do is declare himself a samefag then wait for the inevitable posting of a screenshot to prove otherwise. Though you are right he'll probably just accuse himself of photoshopping it.

Still, worth the price of admission and popcorn to see him squirm, right?

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>>51940167

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>>51940167
"I"? Oh no, friend. There is no I, only Zuul.

>>51939493
You are literally proving his point and being that guy that thinks he's hot shit but is actually a weak pussy shitposting on 4chan.

>>51940076
Agreed, all unfalsifiable claims are mental illness.

>>51940201
>>51940227
I don't remember saving these pictures. Where are they on this harddrive?

>>51940246
Clearly you erased them in case you were going to surprise yourself by driving through the front of your house with your Party Van.

>>51940236
It's impossible to argue with the point made, so I dropped down to the same level

Who the fuck even cares. Shitpost shitpost

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Making fun of solipsism is all well and good but it's actually a fairly legitimate philosophy and a logical stance to take when confronted with the question of reality.

I mean, c'mon.

>>51940369
It falls apart the moment you do anything because every action is taken under the assumption that an external world exists.

>>51940380
Unless that world is merely a mechanism with which you subconsciously further yourself.

>>51938809
>that means you

Depending on the immutability of your state as an immortal, it very well might not.

>>51940418
Fucking

This is why nobody likes solipsists. It's an inherently unassailable philosophy because you just subsume any argument against your own position into your position. It's basically perfected selfishness. Every action you take is automatically justified.

>>51940369
What makes a philosophy legitimate?

>>51940418
Creating an entire world to further your own egotrip would be surprisingly forward thinking of you, if also rather foolish of you to have either forgotten or otherwise neglected to tell yourself.

But the solution is of course quite simple. Just say in a clear, commanding voice, "Computer, arch!" If no control apparatus appears you're just another holodeck character like the rest of us in this rather badly simulated universe.

Which, to get the thread back on topic, is frankly the most retarded curse of all.

>>51938685
if you have no preference, why would you kill yourself?

>>51937395
>left to endlessly drift around in space, all alone and with nothing to do
Ah, I know this one! That's when you nevertheless continue to evolve all those billions of years until one day a thought occurs you and you declare, "Let there be light!" and a whole new universe springs into being in a great cosmic flash! Then you sit around for another billion years waiting for the internet to be created so you can get into this incredibly dense conversation about solipsism. So basically you're in an Asimov story but one of those adapted to the Twilight Zone so there's a twist. Whether that is a curse or not is up to you.

>>51940369
It's a philosophy that is largely ignored by prominent philosophers, as the arguments for soliphism have been reduced to vacuous, impossible to prove or disprove premises.

It is as legitimate as the claim following claim:

An unobservable pink unicorn is right behind you.

>>51935568
If that's the only advantage you get you're gonna be fucked once normal human limitations kick in. How much of your life have you forgotten already? How many of your third grade classmates could you name? How many middle school teachers?

I don't think all the people you care about dying would be that big an issue, because you would forget them in a relatively short period of time.

>>51940527
Solipsism is just weaponised selfishness for people who don't want to care about anything except themselves.

>>51940527
Any unfalsifiable premise is essentially pointless to explore. It's like believing that you were created by an all powerful being 5 seconds ago, with all your memories in their current state simply simulated.

What would it take to disprove this premise? Nothing.

>>51940583
Exactly, which is why Solipsism is laughable.

>>51940613
What is your opinion on God?

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>>51935749
>Your pet project for your spare time can literally be conquer the stars.

>>51935568
well the bible has a good one, immortality effectively bans you from the afterlife of any sort.

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>>51940675
Why suffer in Hell or lose yourself in Heaven, when you can have Earth all to yourself?

>>51940647
Impossible to disprove or prove, but also has practical effects on your life, and good reasons to believe both sides.

As opposed to soliphism, which is impossible to disprove or prove, but has no good reasons to support it at all, just a complete lack of conclusive arguments against it, and no practical applications to life.

Belief in one is to be respected. Belief in soliphism is to be derided as a first year philosophy student attempting to hilariously be "edgy" (for a philosophy student).

>>51935568
I mean if I did have eternal youth as well then yeah, I'd wanna be immortal.

>>51940737
>Impossible to disprove or prove, but also has practical effects on your life, and good reasons to believe both sides.

>What is Pascal's Wager

>>51936043
>doom and gloom
So don't let humanity go extinct. Don't let Earth get desolate. Don't let the Sun die. These are all things that could, in principle, be averted. And we could always expand to the stars above.

Even seeming heat death actually has sufficient usable energy for civilization to survive on, derived from the expansion of the universe. Since said expansion seems to be accelerating, Big Crunch is unlikely, but likewise allows the remaining subjective time to be extended to infinity.

And besides, it seems unlikely the source of the curse could curse you to endure something they couldn't, so either you'll die at some point or always have company.

>>51940574
I don't know, I mean would you want to take credit for this reality? I know I'm risking declaration of "the edgy" but I guess that's also my point, this is an embarrassingly edgy reality we live in, but in the worst way. I mean consider the NSA scandal, the push towards totalitarianism, the corporations barely bothering to pretend they aren't actually running everything. It's like we're in every cyberpunk dystopian setting every only without the befit of hot elven/ork deckers (depending on your preference) and even our cybernetics are shit. You can barely do anything with them, the brain/machine interfaces are ridiculously shitty, and the risk of rejection probably means the whole thing is a fevered pipedream.

We get all the shit and none of the cool benefits! Truly this Earthrealm is the true curse after all.

>>51940816
Pascal's wager is inconclusive. It's just as likely that there's a god that rewards atheism with paradise, and punishes theism with hell, as the conventional wisdom of the reverse.

>>51937205
>40000 years into the future you are an oracle of living history guiding mankind through the stars by helping it understand the past, which it is notoriously bad at doing on its own.

While everything that you care about will die off, new things that you will come to care about will spring up around you. This believe that everything that will matter in your life is already around you is extremely childish. In your own future you will probably make new friends in places you've yet to go, find new jobs you didn't know existed (or which don't even yet exist), take up new hobbies you can't conceive, fall in love with a person you have yet to meet, and give birth to a child you can't even yet imagine. With immortality, that process would simply go on forever.

The only downside I could see would be the possibility that after a hundred years or so it would be difficult to fall in love with someone intellectually so much younger than you. By definition you would be the most mature person who ever lived by a large margin and until you found a method for giving other humans immortality you wouldn't have any companions of similar maturity levels. It would be very similar to being surrounded by children all the time. That's not to say it would be miserable, but you'd have to constantly adapt yourself.

>>51935623
I dare someone to identify this mask, And its curses.
Please?

>>51940822
Now that's a reasonable approach. The fact that RPGs work with specific numbers to determine effects is somewhat of a narrative problem because unless you assume that your character doesn't know how many d6s he rolled on a fireball, they have absolute knowledge of the effect.

Someone subject to a curse of immortality, or any similar magical effect, wouldn't have absolute knowledge of how it works. I don't think the caster would actually know the absolute limits of the spell either.

>>51936353

HIGHLANDER should be the true testament of why immortality sucks

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgCFRwt050Y

>>51936681
This movie too!

>and both goldie hawn, meryl streep and isabella rosselini were high grade milf fuckable on this movie

>>51940876
If it's inconclusive, what kind of practical effects does existence of a god have? Aside from pretending to avoid being burnt at stake.

>>51940869
Everything you describe is a symptom, however distant, of the inherently consumptive nature of animal life.

All animals must kill and exploit other lifeforms to so much as survive, and the only things keeping dolphins, corvids and octopodes from developing just such dystopias are their underwater environments (save for corvids) and lack of opposable thumbs. They are no different from men in their hearts, and in many ways are worse due to having not been softened by civilization.

Any of them, with the same opportunities Man has had, would have done the same or worse.

The crime is Life, the sentence is Death.

>>51940992
Hey Dredd, 2000 AD was so last decade, man

>>51940990
Religions offer ethical and wellness advice for living.

Soliphism in its current form offers nothing, because any practical effects it has would themselves be questionable by the tenets of soliphism.

>>51940948
>(you)
I guess what I'm saying is, when a big bad wizard casts a spell to plunge the world into a winter forever, it doesn't mean that the spell necessarily will last forever. Just long enough to make everyone's lives hell. If not dispelled, 200 or 2000 years later it could go away on its own.

>>51940911
It's Mata Nui's Kanohi Ignika, and its curse is it'll destroy the world if shit gets to grimdark.

>>51941016
You're mistakenly conflating religions, which are human institutions, and God, which is a divine administrator of the universe.

>>51940911
Mask of life right? And I don't know the curse, hardly remember anything from bionicle.

>>51941110
People have beliefs about the concept god, and those beliefs have practical effects on their lives. It is no mistake.

>>51940816
If I die as I am now, and turn out to be right, I lose my existence, which would already have been the case.

If I die as I am now, and turn out to be wrong, I gain continued existence at the price of eternal torment.

If I die accepting the wager and turn out to be right, I gain continued existence in Paradise at the cost of the efforts inherently required by faith in a caring higher power.

If I die accepting the wager and turn out to be wrong, I lose my existence /and/ waste the efforts that faith inherently requires.

There's a 1/4 chance at best that I achieve a net gain, and that's if and only if you assume a specific sect of Christianity is the truth of the wager. There is also a 1/4 chance that I lose even /more/ than I would already have lost.

I do not like those odds.

>>51941131
There are multiple gods, and all the popular monotheistic ones tend to punish worshipers of false gods.

When you face the judgement of Ug, the first and only true god, and get mauled forever by a cave bear you will be sorry.

>>51937713
Nirvana is a state of pleasurable destruction awarded to the wise, especially those wise enough to understand it.

>>51940461
You! I like you.

>>51941131
That's the stupidest attempted refutation of pascal's wager that I've ever seen. Look here for a smarter one:>>51940876


Your problem is you're assuming you can walk away from the wager, when the nature of the ideas involved is that you can't: Nonbelievers go to hell if certain conceptions of the Christian god exist. Believers go to heaven if same.

The argument put forward by Pascal is that any odds of eternal reward are better than any number of odds of nonexistence. To put it mathematically: The Net Gain multiplied by the odds of the event happening is positive in one scenario (God exists, you chose to believe), and 0 or negative in every other scenario.

>>51941195
>nirvana
>means "stilling mind, cessation of desires, and action"
>literal meaning is "blowing out" or "quenching." aka non-existence.

It's too bad Buddhism died out since every follower of this filthy nihilistic cult just killed themselves millennia ago.

>>51941234
Perhaps he underestimated the effort it takes to keep one's faith, or maybe I'm over-weighing the factor of disappointment.

Better to go down knowing I'm ceasing to be at best than to get my hopes up only to have them dashed by "hey, turns out the Scientologists were right and you wasted all of your time, much of your energy and effort, and a good chunk of your money."

>>51937830
It does create free energy if you are immortal and do not need to eat, anon.

That's the whole deal with immortality. If they CAN'T die, and will persist after heat death, that means they are violating physics and are able to stop heat death in an area around them with their physics violating infinite energy.

If they don't have physics violating infinite energy, they don't need to worry about heat death, since it will get them too.

>>51935568

You're thinking small.

1000 years? Ooh that's a long time.

What about 3 billion years? If the human race has died off, you're sitting on this rock of a planet with no way off. The Earth turns into a cinder by the sun which has grown out to Venus' orbit. By 7.5 billion years in the future, its surface will be past where Earth's orbit is now. Maybe you become part of the sun as the Earth turns into molten garbage, maybe you get swallowed up by the sun itself, but you're still alive..alone and burning at several thousands of degrees Kelvin.

You spend the next billions of years along in space as the sun turns into a White Dwarf. Maybe the shockwaves of the planetary nebula push you out farther into space...where it's colder than you've ever felt...near Absolute Zero.

Trillions of years pass...you're alive....alone.

Soon the universe itself begins to die down...stars extinguish everywhere, all that's left are black holes. Everything is dark. But you are alive.

>>51941291
Still stupid: in the argument, only one path leads to eternal paradise. Which you are giving up to save yourself some pride in the scenarios where you get eternal torment.

Senpai being ageless is like having the ability to choose when to die. How's that a curse?

>>51941353
Just make a new fucking planet and star using your infinite blood as fissile mass, dumbass.

If you haven't figured out a method of getting into space in like 8 billion years, then you're kind of retarded.

>>51941356
You implying that eternal paradise is even preferable.

The torpor of heaven is as terrible as the torment of hell.

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>Control F
>0 results for "Hob Gadling"
I'm not angry, /tg/, just disappointed.

>>51941376
Ah, I see we're just tipping fedoras now. Nice edge!

I'm pretty sure the omnipotent, omniscient, omni-benevolent god of Christian theology can keep heaven interesting.

>>51941376
Anon, don't go there. We all know what starts when you go there.

>>51941356
>>51941291
>>51941376

You don't go into the casino if you've got five bucks in your pocket and less chance of walking out with ten than of getting struck by lightning or eaten by a shark.

He himself could have been wrong and you can't know until it's too late. This whole thing is a sucker's game no matter who you bet on.

>>51941442
>You don't go into the casino if you've got five bucks in your pocket and less chance of walking out with ten than of getting struck by lightning or eaten by a shark.

In pascal's wager, you're already in the casino and forced to make a bet.

>>51941376
Most religions' afterlives are actually pretty shitty if you look at them closely.

Greeks either get to wander some plains underground and generally miss being alive (that's the best option, by the way) or be subject to ironic punishments.

Vikings get to get drunk and fight forever, until the world ends and everything's fucked if they died in combat. Otherwise it's bleak and shitty. Would you get tired of drinking mead for 300 years? What about 3000? And listening to the same shitty jokes from the same drunken vikings all the time... But at least there is an end.

Christians, heavily depends on the specific cult. If you're a mormon, you probably didn't make it, limited spots. If you're anything else, going strictly by the Bible, you probably spend the eternity praising the lord. Which kind of implies losing freedom and essentially becoming a planar petitioner.

Buddhism, if you stay out of the 10000s of hells different cults have accumulated over the centuries (Fun places like a hell of being crushed by rocks for a billion years, or boiled alive), you get to be reincarnated forever and not necessarily into a human. Each time you don't really have your memories so it's not really "you". If you ever reach nirvana, at least it stops.

Maybe Illuvatar was right. Death is a blessing.

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>>51941392

>>51941468
So existing is a sucker's game and the only safe bet is not to be born, since the win condition is so specific that at most a tenth of a tenth of a percent of the people who ever lived have achieved it?

>>51941493
an opportunity to win is better than nothing.

>>51941356
>not being a prideful stubborn asshole, never abandoning your morals even against impossible forces

>Be absolutely immortal
>experience almost everything the universe has to offer
>wait for universe to end and recreate it with your own two hands

>>51941536
not if losing is exponentially worse and more likely than winning.
Which it is, in nearly every scenario with a heaven and hell.

>>51941536

Isn't choosing atheism also an opportunity to win, since there could be a god who doesn't care if you don't worship him specifically as long as you don't worship anybody else either?

>>51941570
honestly, if a god doesn't allow access to heaven to good people regardless of creed, his heaven is probably shit.

>>51941570
Now you're getting into the valid cricisims of pascal's wager. For every belief you can have, you can imagine a God that both permits you into heaven based on it, and forbids you from heaven based on it. Conceptually, each god is as likely as every other one, so Pascal's Wager doesn't offer much guidance unless you assume some real world religion is more valid than these pretend ones. In which case, you have to justify that assumption.

>>51937854
>Who cares if you have to watch all your friends and family die, who cares if you can't get attached to anyone or anything?
You're not making a very good point for the benefits of mortality.

>>51940898
>The only downside I could see would be the possibility that after a hundred years or so it would be difficult to fall in love with someone intellectually so much younger than you
Well sure. Or you know, the realization that since you are immortal, you will live long enough to see the heat death of the universe. That or getting trapped somewhere.

>>51941559
>Implying you'd ever obtain that much power
You know how the universe ends right? It ends with silence and stillness. By the time you get to the end of the universe you won't be able to do anything except exist in silence and stillness

>>51941747
If you're the kind of immortal who can survive the heat death of the universe, you don't have to worry about any traps that we understand with conventional physics. MAYBE black holes, depending on a fuck ton of factors.

Heat death though, you don't need to give a shit about, since you are an infinite energy and mass machine and can stave it off indefinitely.

>>51941787
>>51941747
Why do so many people not realize that if an entity is physics breaking enough to survive the heat death FOREVER, it is also physics breaking enough to put off heat death as long as it likes since it is an infinite mass and energy machine?

>>51941412
>implying mortal men would retain their egos in the presence of the almighty, rather than being subsumed into his radiant glory

>>51941416
Too late

Maybe effects like an immortality curse should be described in less absolute terms and allow monkey paw type of fuckery.

Not
>You will live forever!

but
>You shall see your friends and lovers die before you. Your children and your children's children will grow old and die before you do. The very empire and gods you serve shall die, be gone forever, before your eyes. You shall not die from blade, or disease, or spell, cursed to wander the world and see the foolish ways of your kind lead to self destruction.


Kind of how that demigod Hercules killed. He was literally undefeatable as long as he was connected to the ground, so he got killed by being lifted into the air and choked.

Or that dark elf champion from some Morrowind in-game book who was destined to be a great ruler and couldn't be killed by a blade, so he got killed by a guy with a mace.

You could still die from happiness or something. Keep it cheesy.

>>51941846
>implying mortal men would retain their egos in the presence of the almighty, rather than being subsumed into his radiant glory
>implying that isn't just nonexistence+, and you're still better off.

>>51941872
man, FUCK letting something eat my corpse.
I eat as many preservatives as I possibly can to kill anything that might want to eat me after I die.

>>51938024
See, the reason it's easy to come to terms with death is because it's an end. It's an inevitable end. Theres nothing (if all religions are wrong) afterwards, thus once it's over, there no more worrying.

Theres no coming to terms with immortality. Theres no end to it, no cut off date, no wrap up. You can come to accept it, and then come to hate it, and then come to fear it, and repeat endlessly, because thats all you have, endlessly. Plus, it's easy to say "Yeah this aint so bad" when you're sitting on a couch watching tv and relaxing. But then one day you might get trapped in an earthquake, or some horrendous natural disaster, or some cataclysmic event. You might get caught in the center of a nuclear explosion, or captured and tortured. You might get snatched up my governments and dissected and tested for years until either you are freed, or the government collapses. There are so many horrible possibilities that come up when living forever is a factor. Sure, you're survive, you may even regenerate if you get that power too. But when some cold, emotionless scientist is emptying out all your blood to see if you survive that, or throw you into a vacuum to see what happens, lets see how you come to terms with it. Or if you get swallowed up by Yellow Stone erupting and have to live for likely eons trapped in the ruins of North America, since no one is likely to ever find you and save you. Or getting hit by a nuke and literally melted, sure you'll survive, and you might even regen if you're lucky, but imagine the psychological effects of having your body likely reduced to NOTHING, and if you are immune to being atomically wiped out, I doubt you'll enjoy exposure to everything else involved in a nuclear explosion

>>51941904
>waiting for a scientist to capture you and empty out all your blood
>Not doing it on your own
>not actively seeking out amoral scientists to see how far you can push this
You are doing it wrong.

Also, anything traps you and you don't want to be trapped? scrape your way out. It's not like you're going to die of bloodloss doing it.

>>51941794
>>51941811
Oh, I don't mean you'll die from heat death. I mean, what then? Hey, you're alive, great. But the universe is, by all means, dead. You won't be able to travel anywhere, you won't be able to grow anything, no warmth, no food, drink, entertainment. You would be completely, utterly, and in every meaning of the phrase, alone. Unless the universe has a self-recycling system and resets itself anew, you would mentally break without a doubt.

>>51941941
>>51941904
Though, arranging for a nuclear blast test to see how well you fare against nukes is going to be an ass of paperwork.

>>51937498
>Watch
>not 'read'
Son, I am dissapoint.

>>51941941
>scraping against several hundred tons of rock.
>scraping against cold vacuum of space

>>51941941
It's like you don't think physical pain is a factor.

>>51941949
YOU MAKE A NEW ACCRETION DISK AND SUN OUT OF YOUR INFINITE BLOOD AND ENERGY.
I SAID THIS LIKE SIX TIMES.

>>51941962
The first one, yes, you scrape yourself out. should only take a thousand years.
The second one, BLOOD JETS GO! they work just fine for zero gravity course adjustment!

>>51941964
It really isn't.

>>51935568
Sour grapes anon, sour grapes.

>>51941964
Immortality where you don't need to eat, drink or breathe, don't have mental problems, have unlimited memory and don't feel pain isn't immortality. It's universal noclip and has no basis in any fiction at all.

>>51941968
So immortality now gives you the ability to move through an empty void and manipulate matter in ways that make no sense?

>>51942005
>make no sense
All the shit he's saying makes sense by physics, though, assuming you have infinite blood like an immortal would. Like, that's how you make a sun.

And yeah, blood jets allow you to move through the empty void.

>>51942003
>>51941981
Okay, well if you're going to go that far, just forget immortality, make it "im a god", because thats pretty much all you're getting at

>>51942031
Anon, if you are immortal enough to survive the heat death of the universe, pretty much nothing is stopping you from restarting your own solar system as many times as you like.
Note: thoroughly study orbital mechanics before you are in space, that shit is not intuitive.

>>51942018
Why would an immortal have infinite blood?

Your version of immortality is godhood. Being damned to immortality is like being damned to be a vampire, or some Dorian Gray type of shenanigans. You're immortal, but you still need to feed and you can be killed - and you can't simply turn off that desire to survive. A vampire will suffer pain from hunger to the point he'll be willing to eat anything, just like humans. You're not freed from your human impulses.

>>51942018
Okay, lets just say, somehow you make a BLOOD SUN, and it doesn't just not work, or succumb to heat death as well. What then? You can't make life, you can't make a world. You are still stuck in silence and stillness, only now you have a heater.

>>51942072
>Why would an immortal have infinite blood
If you need to feed, you would not survive the heat death of the universe.
If you have any requirements to survive at all, you would not survive the heat death of the universe.

>>51942052
See, you aren't explaining any of how you do this
>Oh yeah, you're immortal, you can make planets and transfer energy into worlds, you know, like all immortals can.

>>51942081
The accretion disk you will create to create the sun will eventually produce all the elements and planets. Especially if you let the sun blow up and make another one in the cosmic gas it left behind.

This means worlds will form, and life will be able to form on the worlds.

Then it just comes down to whether you want to try to figure out how to MAKE life, or if you want to just try this process some ten thousand times until it works.

>>51942096
By abusing how you can produce infinite mass with your blood.
Or abusing how you can make infinite energy with your motion, and using technology to convert that into mass.

>>51942111
> I use prestidigitation cantrip to split an atom!

>>51942082
If you have no requirements, then what makes you think your body will have blood? Your heart doesn't need to beat, your organs don't need nutrients or oxygen, so blood is pointless, so likely no longer exists. You don't age or degrade, so you don't shed dead cells or grow hair or fingernails. Going by your rules of being a perpetual existence, you would not have infinite blood, you would have no blood. And even if you do have blood, going by the same string of logic, you would never be able to spill said blood, because your body is immune to physical injury.

>>51942121
anon, if you get enough mass together, say a sun sized amount, gravity starts making it fissure and fuse.

That is the process by which you can make all elements out of like three elements.

Man people think really highly of humans in ways that don't make sense. Just because you live a long time doesn't make you smart. Nor does it grant you the ability to manufacture shit, it doesn't grant fucking resources. You just get to live for fucking ever. It doesn't apply to your clothes or your equipment or anything else. It isn't going to stop the government/mad scientist/fuckhole from abducting you and trying every fucking experiment under the sun to seize the secret of immortality. People are adding so many additional abilities to immortality, that its baffling.

>>51942127
Then use your infinite motion to produce mass via methods modern scientists already have.

As long as you can still do anything at all, forever, you can fight the heat death as long as you like.

>>51942100
>>51942111
Again, no explanation. How would infinite blood =planets, suns and elements.

>>51942143
>Adding so many abilities to immortality
>basic motion, forever, is a crazy added ability
???

>>51942155
Actually, the one with the accretion disk is an explanation, and is how suns are formed in nature.

>>51942147
But then what? What you are saying comes down to "Im gonna flail forever in space"

You assume theres a fight going on. No, the fights over, you're the only one left standing. The universe is dead anon. Theres nothing left. What will you do?

>>51942186
Produce matter, toss the matter together until gravity makes it a sun, wait for the sun to explode, produce more matter, make a second sun this time with additional elements around it made by fusion and fission of the previous sun, crash land into whatever planet you choose, try to start life up again either artificially or by using your own bacteria that grows in your guts.

>>51942174
But it's not actually saying anything. How does a sun made of blood produce elements and planets. You don't have the entire periodic table in your fucking blood stream.

>>51942207
Anon, suns work by taking any old element, then fusing and fissioning them into hydrogen and heavy elements via gravity.

>>51942207
All the elements were created within stars.

>>51942206
How are you producing matter, anon. How are you producing elements from nothing. How is bacteria alive in your guts, the bacteria isn't immortal, just you.

An immortal, absolutely unaffected by laws of physics, naked creature floating through the void by oneself for untold billions of years spilling blood drop by drop to create a new universe is not a human. It's effectively a god in most mythologies, hell, it's whatever comes before god to create the universe.

Even if you assume that it all works, floating around by yourself for billions of years (even if you could bleed at regular speed without stopping, do you understand how many years it would take to collect enough blood to create a sun? Billions if not trillions of years of just floating in darkness, bleeding) sounds like enough of a curse even if you aren't suffocating and feeling the pain of bleeding and freezing every second of it, unable to die.

If merely burning forever is considered a hell, this sounds like super hell.

>>51942234
I am producing matter either by using my own mass, as I am an immortal and have as much as I like of that. If that's not how it works, then I use motion to produce energy to produce mass, which is something modern scientists figured out a while ago.

Elements are produced via the action of suns, which I thought everyone knew but apparently they don't.

Bacteria I am hoping will be alive, but if it isn't, like I said, you can start from scratch. You have the free time.

>>51942236
But unlike hell you have nice little vacations in your new blood universes.

>>51942236
It's pretty gnarly, but you'll get over it. Especially when your first life planet starts growing.
SO SATISFYING.

>>51942163

Okay I assume your If immortal you gain access to infinite blood, dude. Why the fuck would you have infinite blood? Seriously? How the fuck is accessing a meat and blood dimension where you have infinite access to blood, related to immortality?

>>51942257
Hell has other sinners and imps. At least it's company.

>>51942269
Because that's a pretty common form of immortality.
If you can't get infinite blood, then just take the slower path of using your infinite motion to produce mass.

>>51942272
Nothing is stopping you from sustaining other life forms with your own energy generation. Though that will slow the production of new universes quite a lot. It's a value call on whether you want to bring company or not.

The true curse of immortality is anons discussing endlessly the minutae of immortality.

And being immortal based on that ever changing discussion.

>>51942272
So does blood universe 5678 or at least it will in a few billion years.

>>51942236
What I don't get is how they assume they will be mentally well for all this. Apparently being immortal in this scenario includes being unaffected by psychological strain, which means you have to be effectively emotionless. So why would they even do all this stuff and not just float silently forever. They are mentally stable despite the horror of their reality, so it's clear they need no outside stimulus. And logically speaking, they should reach a point where they realize all their effort is pointless as it will just repeat itself, thus taking action is pointless.

Going by their logic, they would do nothing and just exist in a dead universe.

>>51942297
You have literally all of infinity to go crazy, stop going crazy, and go back to your project.

>Become immortal
>Live out forever until the heat death of the universe
>Start working on blood universe
>Suddenly multi-dimension monster breaks through the walls
>It travels through dead universes, eating immortal beings to fuel itself
>You are now a snack for a dimension hopping immortal eating monster.

>>51942292
>>51942284
technically they are blood SOLAR SYSTEMS.
Making a universe would take a lot longer, and is only recommended if you really have a hard on for multiple solar systems and black holes.

>>51942304
And then go crazy again for a bit while your blood Suns cook up some elements.

>>51942321
Sweet.
How many other immortals are in here?
Do they know any party games?
have any figured out how to make video games out of multi dimensional monster innards?
Because I swear, blood solar system 22546 had AWFUL video games.

>>51942297

Yeah... Literally anything humans find value in is created within society. You want friendship, love, family, a sense of meaning and belonging. Any creative thought you've ever had is at least seeded by an outside stimulus, other people's thoughts in forms of stories and ideas or nature.

This creature is a fucking great old one. Congratulations, you've created C'thulhu.

>>51942333
Yeah, now you've got the idea!

>>51942304
But why would you? It's not going crazy, it's logic. If you can never be mentally damaged, or physically hurt, then outside stimuli is pointless. If outside stimuli is pointless then theres no need to create anything. If you can't ever go mind shatteringly mad from your existence in a dead universe, then you're never bored or tired. You would have no reason to make a new universe, or do any projects.

So you just float in nothingness forever.

>>51942336
No
All the immortals are melded into the creature, minds emptied of all thought, just living engines of forever.

>>51942354
>letting something as petty as logic dictate what you do in your free time
fuck that entirely. If I let logic dictate my hobbies, I would never have any fun.

>>51942370
oh, then you're just traditionally dead then, but with a particularly indefinite corpse. And the possibility of coming back, assuming there's some kind of interdimensional ecosystem going on.
Oh well!

>>51937595
You'd just forget useless shit. Not really an issue, might even be beneficial.

>>51942395
remember to keep and copy books though.
You need to sometimes empty out some parts of your brain for specialist information.

>>51937743
^ This, if anything shit is only ever pointless because we can die.

>>51942348
Not even that, Cthulhu at least has a purpose, to usher in the Outer Ones. This...thing, would have nothing. Just a lump of meat, existing forever in nothing.

>>51942416
Nah, this thing's purpose is to produce new solar systems which will, in turn produce new video games and smellovision programs.

>>51942374
But whats the point of fun for an immortal? You are a perpetual. You never get bored, or tired, or annoyed, or frustrated. You need nothing, you want nothing.

>>51942429
Because it's fun, anon. Duh.

>>51942416
Yeah. This shit is honestly horrifying. Like, even the Biblical God has emotions and some kind of purpose, and he's already a pretty unbelievable figure.

This thing is an abortion of reality, a great cancer that stays even after the carrier is long dead and decayed.

>people saying an immortal using phsyics workarounds is a god
Man if it was a god, it wouldn't need to bother with all this blood universe reacharound shit, it would just will it into existence.

The immortal would take like, billions of years to do it, because it's not a god. It's just a perpetual motion device.

>>51937743
>>51942414
You're both wrong. Nothing has meaning until we give it meaning. As long as you're alive, something has meaning. Once you die, that meaning is gone. So yeah, death does give life meaning, because it puts life into perspective. Why should you care about your games when they are meaningless? Because you can only enjoy them while you're alive, and that doesn't last long, so it means more.

>>51942460
>It's horrifying to have the universe have a perpetual source of matter and energy so it doesn't die of heat death

Actually, as a mortal, that sounds like a pretty sweet thing to have.
Better than some kind of god that will smite me down for whatever bullshit reasons.

>>51942435
Again. You don't need fun. Fun is wrought by a mind desiring stimulus. Why would you care? Your mind is perpetually neutral and satisfied, so you have no need or want for more than what you have and what you are.

>>51942465
This.

>>51942460
>No gods or kings, only man

>>51942495
>why would you care?
Because it's fun. Duh.
I refuse to explain two basic concepts in one thread, and I already had to explain how elements are made.

>>51942465
Even the great pyramids will one day crumble to dust, anon. It will be, objectively, as if they had never been built at all. All that effort will have been for nothing.

Why build something when time itself will invalidate your work?