/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

FIRST FOR MAGE SUPREMACY

>>51926621
When our attempt to wipe out a bunch of Vamps accidentally killed about 12 innocents when we discovered far too late that the building had been used to contain a relatively significant amount of explosives.

>>51926665

>The Grand Maw in Oblivion was also the sibling of the Judeo-Christian God.

Source on that?

>>51926641

>You realize that God is only supreme within the bounds of Masquerade and Fallen, right? Each game line has their own concept and version of a supreme being. The Triat is considered above God in Ascension, and Mages unite with an extradimensional omniversal entity upon Ascension, according to select lore.

No, in oWoD, God (the Old Testament one) is pretty much the supreme authority and creator force in the setting. Everything that's happened, everything that exists, is because he either made it or allows it. I know a lot of folks will take this to just kickstart another "No, my splat is more powerful than yours" but honestly, God isn't part of the splat, he's just the entity that literally made it all and is above it all.

For example, a lot of people seem to forget that once upon a time the Garou were angels.

I think a lot of people rebel against this part of oWoD because they're not fond of the Christian faith, so they project ways to somehow 'beat' God at his own game, which isn't something you can do, because this isn't even like the thing with the "You lose" sheet that Caine got, this is just plain no go ground.

>>51926728

>my splat is right
>your splat is wrong

Grow up. God is shit when it comes to Apocalypse, Ascension and Wraith. I'm sorry.
This is why magefags love to troll vampfags without remorse.

>>51926728
The Triat is supreme in Apocalypse. You sound a lot like Awakening tards with their cosmology supremacy ideals. You're not right about anything other than your own opinions.

>>51926807

But see, that's the thing, I'm not favoring one splat over another. I don't really care all that much. People will play what they want to play, their GMs will tell the stories they want, the way they want it.

I'm just saying that at the end of the day, no matter how some folks might dislike it, God is the ultimate authority in oWoD.

>>51926823

>God is the ultimate authority in oWoD

Except he's just not. Not outside the bounds of Masquerade and Fallen. You're attempting something very crude and baseless by enforcing your preferred splat over the rest. It's coming off as a bit zealous.

>>51926834

>preferred splat

I don't have a preferred splat though.

I have never played Vampire or the Fallen.

I have just read through the books. But I've also read through Apocalypse, Oblivion, Ascension, Hunter, Orpheus, Mummy and the Kindred of the East.

God doesn't have the same face everywhere as he does in Masquerade and the Fallen, there are separate entities that clearly exist separate of him with immense power, yes, but once you look past all that, the thing is that the whole thing has him as the alpha and the omega.

>coming off a bit zealous

Funny you should say that, given that I'm not religious at all.

>>51926864

>the thing is that the whole thing has him as the alpha and omega

Depends entirely on the game line.

>Funny you should say that, given that I'm not religious at all

The fact that you went straight to that conclusion, rather than considering the definition and phrase of "it's an expression", is causing me to form the assumption that you're not efficient to keep this conversion going.

>>51926886
>Depends entirely on the game line.

But it doesn't though.

>>51927121

But it does.

>>51926864
>I have never played Vampire
Calling bullshit on that

>I have just read through the books
Evidently, you didn't.

>I'm not religious at all
You are so fucking Christian it hurts.

Can you fags just drop the stupid cosmology arguments? Most inter-splat questions like God v.s. Archmages are up to the ST to resolve. And honestly most people don't care about this inter-splat shenanigans, we just wanna discuss our spooky monster adventures.

>>51927218
Few actually wants to discuss that, sadly. They prefer talking of how their dad can beat up the other guy's dad.

>>51927210

>You are so fucking Christian it hurts.

Nope. I just read through the books and saw what's what.

>>51927182
But that's not true.

>>51927235
Well both you and I want to. So what's stopping the us from having a civil discussion? What was the last game you played in/ST? What was it about, and any good stories from it?

>>51927301
My Malk burned down the haven he shared with his sire after some goons tried to kill them to "hide the evidence". I'm sure it'll bite me sooner or later, but the game is on pause/reorganization/dying so who knows. What about you?

>>51927218
>God v.s. Archmages
The Caine vs Archmage arguments always boils down to this.

Caine loses hard to the strongest of wizards, so Masquerade players decide to bring out Big G, seeming to think it will validate their gameline despite the fact that God permeates the whole WoD setting, not just Masquerade.

I'm not getting into the "who's the single supreme being" argument. It depends on the splat in question.

>>51927301

People could always answer the question asked in the OP, but I don't think many people do that nowadays.

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You fellas seem a bit conflict-hungry. Maybe I can help.

The Living World CoD survey came down lightly on the side of Hunter, so that's what I'm going to work on. Sorry to any eager Mage voters; I'm open to other decisions-by-consensus that may help.

I'm just getting expressions of interest while I set the map and plots rewards etc up, so we have a pool of people to make some communal decisions if necessary. Just keep in mind it's early days; we won't be starting straight away.

Otherwise, if you're keen on playing an online game of Hunter: the Vigil with a persistent setting/flexible schedule, check it out. GM's are always welcome, too. I can rope some of my group into helping me GM, but willing GM's would be preferable.

https://deepharbour.obsidianportal.com/

>>51927423
I've played in 2 Hunter: The Vigil games and 1 on and off VtM series of disjointed one-shots.

In my current game, the second of the two aforementioned Vigil games, my character agreed to duel an ancillae vampire. Despite him being a veteran (like 56 exp and lots of practical that got spent on skills and merits) it's not something he'd regularly do, but his vice is pride and he got magically goaded into it.

Through all three games I played I got tons of stories though. In my first Hunter game I beat a necromancer to death with a flashlight baton.

>>51926689
>wipe out a bunch of Vamps accidentally killed about 12 innocents

KIlling large numbers of undead and sleepers.

That's a job well done!

-Any Mysterium member

>>51927468
>It depends on the splat in question.
>It depends on the ST in question.
FTFY

>>51927673
That's not what I'm debating here. Merely mentioning the fact that Caine loses big-time to Archmages, so in the end it always comes down to Mage vs God instead.

It's the same damn outcome every single time.

>>51927700
>Archmage vs God

We don't have any sufficient material to proclaim a meaningful answer as to who would triumph over the other. It all depends on the Storyteller, and who he/she chooses to be the superior player in the grand scheme of things.

It's all pointless, we just don't know who would win such an encounter. It's been done to death. Can we drop it?

Romance between young virginal Thyrsus maiden and a troubled Blood Talon.

>>51927990
Absolutely Haram

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>>51927990

Whats the best path to have magic based on the 4 seasons? Thyrsus or Acanthus

>>51928048

Both work

>>51928048
>magic based on the 4 seasons

Sounds more like a changeling than a mage.

>>51928069
Mage works on symbols so a fitting shadown name and legacy would work

>>51928155

If you really want a 4 seasons theme, I would stick with Thrysus. Acanthus having Forces as an Inferior Arcanum might be troublesome.

>>51927813

It's especially pointless if you go with that whole "the oWoD is actually about six or seven alternate but very similar universes that can be slipped into" idea that was considered late in the line's life.

Sometimes you slip into the universe where the Judeo-Christian cosmology is more prominent, sometimes you slip into the universe where consensual reality is more prominent, sometimes you slip into a reality where the Triat is more prominent. You'll never know.

I never really got power level discussion, though. If it's not an active discussion of in-game mechanics and balance, it all just comes off as something that rests on ST fiat.

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>>51926621
Caine here, AMA

>>51926807
God actually jives really well with Wraith, considering that it's really, really easy to consider the Underworld the First Circle of Hell; this is supported by the fact that the Slayers from D:tF made the Underworld during the Rebellion against God, and the destruction of the Underworld (and the chewing up of the Labyrinth by Grandma) by the Sixth Great Maelstrom let all of the Demons out.
>>51926728
>Source on that?
Not them, but that mention of Grandma being the sibling of God is from Orphan Grinders from Orpheus.

>wod games
Srsly, why not telltale style storytelling qtes? You can do even Mage with that.

>>51929284
Telltale has been pretty bad since the second episode of TWD season 2, or even the Wolf Among Us. It would still be a certain improvement over We Eat Blood.

>>51929284

Because Telltalle is shit.

Because those aren't games.

Those are interactive slideshows, where your choices most assuredly do not matter, and you're going along for the railroading, no matter what.

Honestly, I'd love to see CDPR tackle Vampire: The Dark Ages or Vampire: The Masquerade, but I don't think they're going to want to do anything more than Cyberpunk 2077 at this moment, in order to get it ready for the 2077 release.

>>51924141
https://mega.nz/#F!ZIVTkAhb!UYmPR0LBQ_eaXnDDAvrROA

>>51929389
>Implying a Choose Your Own Adventure like the preludes is any less railroady

>>51929474
Are there ever UA generals? Because I have been running a bi-weekly campaign for a few months now and I'd enjoy telling some stories.

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>>51929483
>>51929389
They're both dogshit ideas for 'games' that morons love to make and morons love to consume. It's fucking idiotic that they tried to launch the digital side of their product when they could have just made a goddamn mod to CKII called 'Prince of the City' or some shit and everybody would have been happy. They outsourced and they're owned by fucking Paradox.
>>51929378
> It would still be a certain improvement over We Eat Blood.
I still agree with this guy however, after saying all of that.

The Mage 'game' was okayish, in that it had something beyond constant railroads and bad-ends.

>>51929554

People bring up the Paradox connection, but it seems like all Paradox wants to do is just take a cut of White Wolf's money and let them figure out what to do with the IP on their own. At this point I don't think they even have White Wolf for the WoD IP, it seems like this whole company just exists as a favor to let Martin Ericsson do what he wants without impacting Paradox's bottom line.

>>51928994
Could you beat an archmage?

>>51929656
>Could you beat an archmage?

Why would I do that?
I have enough problem with my own children...
I don't have time for mortals (no offense).

>>51929504
Occasionally, when someone asks a question about something or wants some rumors to seed in their game.
Usually, it does within a day.

>>51929474

Thank you.

How do you handle faction membership in your games, specifically mage nWod 1e? I'm reading through the different factions and they all seem pretty hardcore/fanatical and 'hands on', how do you keep faction initiation and membership from completely taking over the game and the 'player agency'?

>>51929652
Yeah it seems fucking asinine, they're doing LARPs based around Europe (???) when their biggest fanbase has always been American, this isn't Shadowrun where it's oddly popular with Japanese and German people.
>>51929771
Maybe it'd help if we had like, thread images and a Mega Archive? It's getting a new edition, and while I have stuck with second, third looks pretty cool.

>>51930138

My small issue with nwod mage 1e is that it seems a bit hard to make a campaign that is meant to show the players the wonders of magic in the same rate as their player characters. I mean, if you start off right after the awakening then you've got to deal with a lot of faction and mentor-stuff before the players become more free, if you don't want to skim over it. Not a huge problem I guess, but I'm coming straight from WtF where it seems more 'fast and loose', imo. Any stories on a good way you or your ST has handled campaigns that start at the absolute start of entering the supernatural?

>>51930138
Inter-factional games are really hard outside of a few specific instances (Nossies for Vamps and Anansi arguably for Werewolf) it is really much easier to stick with intra-factional politics...unless you're playing Mage, where there's a great deal of cross over between the Techies and Trads, with a lot of unofficial cobtact going on, with the ever present corrupting influence and interplay of the Nephandi upon both.

>>51930138
The orders believe their work is most important but the council formed out the fact that mages NEED each other, ascencion its a lonely path but loneliness can deliver an awakened to very unwise roads.
you can focus on what each faction brings to the table instead of the reasons why they would fight.

>>51930240

Everything about new White Wolf honestly gives me Goblinworks vibes: there's what they want to do with the IP and then there's the Real Agenda underneath. Only in this case it's just "spreading Nordic LARP" as opposed to "make my dream MMO and slap a familiar IP on top".

>>51930344
For sure, it's all so fishy, they're picking what amounts to this Asshole's favorite books from the old line to update first, and he chooses motherfucking Gypsies? I mean shit, might as well redo do Berlin by Night, London By Night, Freak Legion, Blood Treachery, Masters of the Art and Dirty Secrets if the Black Hand while we're at it. But even beyond that, I get the Lunatics Running the Asylum vibe, where Swedecula is using the company as a vehicle to work out his mid life crisis, thats why he wants to drag WW kicking and screaming back into the 90s; he didn't have hairplugs or a ball and chain back then.

>>51930456
Onyx Path already did the remake to Dirty Secrets

>>51930319

Yes, but if a cabal is comprised of several factions, it seems that there would be a lot of one-on-one required since the factions have different goals and probably want their member-player to do things sometimes.

>>51930554

Keep in mind that within the setting, the Pentacle is an alliance in fact, not just of convenience, particularly the Orders of the Diamond Precept. While the Orders may disagree from time to time, the have common goals and interests that predominate. The setting also reinforces the notion that not only are mixed cabals acceptable, they are actually the norm and encourages. Even the normally sneaky Guardians don't expect their members to spy or inform on their own cabals.

>>51930676

Hm, I guess. Perhaps im going into this with too vampy a mindset.

>>51930946

Mage society is most definitely not vampire society.

Mages are more sociable (like actual humans, not undead predators), willingly ally in common interest and protection, and are by far more meritocratic.

The greatest disagreements are probably between the Diamond Orders and the Free Council, but that hardly ever rises to the level of open, no less violent, conflict.

Cabals are also the cornerstone of mage society, more so than the Orders. Betraying one's cabal, whether to advance your Order's interests or not, will almost certainly result in veritable social excommunication among fellow mages.

The only true hostility on an Order level is between the Pentacle and Seers.

>>51930946
He's talking about taW, not Asc, but a lot of it does still apply.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UMf8SgSH5A

>>51931132

>that one second of the WoD MMO

Why CCP? Why were you such colossal fuckups?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr_KVNrxtRI

>>51931132

>In the 70s, all there was was fantasy gaming
>Angry Traveller fan grumbling intensifies

>>51931716

Not that art again...

Every time I see it, all I can think of is that one little splash and she's going to scald all her sensitive bits.

Put on a damn robe.

>>51931850
Something something Thyrsus heat resistant skin

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What clan/bloodline would Kain (from Legacy of Kain) best fit in? What would be a decent, playable equivalent of his character and abilities in Masquerade or Requiem?

>>51931883

Thyrsus something something put on some damn pants.

How is quintessence handled by archmages? I know the rules haven't been updated but it seems like creating a chantry is a massive risk and always has to deal with possible paradox. This is just idle curiosity.

Any World of Darkness news from GDC yet?

>>51931912
Help me out a little here: What is this Kain guy like?

Is he a Ruler who only allows choice for his subjects in so much that they choose what he wants? Clan Ventrue

Is he a walking nightmare, scaring away everyone who thinks of him even when he doesn't wish to? Clan Nosferatu

Is he a walking shadow, knowing all, seeing all, and wielding occult might beyond what all others can? Clan Mehket

Is he a predator in all aspects, from making love to making war, always looking for his next worthy prey and maybe struggling against his inner Beast? Clan Gangrel

Is he... well, he's not Daeva if he looks like that. The Daeva are primarily ruled by passion yes, but that passion usually is at least dressed up nicely and not nearly so... gargoyle-like

>>51931912
Assamite, maybe?
Or Gangrel.

But probably Clan Gary Stue.

>>51931938
Not easily. Archmages have to deal with legendary levels of paradox in a backlash. Aside from that, sometimes a perfectly normal spell that is within their reach is just impossible because fucking with the fundamental nature of a thing is an easy way to get Archmage tier spirits to want to eat you. And yes, that is every spirit past rank 5.

At Archmage levels you either struggle desperately to find ways to do it within the first 5 levels of mastery or you struggle desperately to contain it. And even then, the Pax Arcanumn is always in effect

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>>51932040

> What is this Kain guy like?

A marvelous dick, bent on achieving his revenge and free will for himself (and coincidentally everyone else as well). He's also a ruler that ruled with a firm hand, blotted out the sun with smoke stacks so he and his kind could stalk the lands, he's fairly powerful, but not OP.

>>51932056

Oh come on now, why is Kain a gary stue?

>>51932102
Not really of it's a person or thing you can take it into your road and use it on yourself or the target. It's only when the spell effects the world or can't be move into the world that it's an issue.

>>51932112
Sounds like a Lasombra mindset

>>51926621

What exactly IS ascension on the oWoD world?

Is it something like "pulling a buddha" on yourself, do you cease to exist, or do you become a god?

According to the books some mages just fucking ascended, just like that, others study their whole (or more) lifes and nothing happens.

>>51932431
It's similar to the Zen concept of Enlightenment when it comes to how you ascend, some monks study the Sutras, babble them a bunch and work their way up, some get into a fight with their master over a woman, have their prayers beads torn and achieve enlightenment through the sound of the beads clattering against the floor of the brothel. It seems to be if the universe is in line with your particular Praxis at that point, with the Consensus coming close enough to what you believe that you simply Ascend.

>>51932564

Oh, cool. And some ascend while listening to smooth jazz. That shit would be alright

>>51932178
Well yeah, buffing yourself or bringing shit into your magical realm means you get leeway, but there is stuff that even if you can bring it into your personal Road you still can't easily effect it. Like Father Wolf, who doesn't care about the fact he should be dead. He'll still eat most new Archmages and even some seasoned ones. These beings are effectively said to have their Rank in "Self" Arcana which is them basically being able to do whatever the fuck they should be able to do

>>51931934
Pants are tools of the Lie and servants of the Exarchs!

>>51932761
The Pants are a Lie and I can tell myself a better one about fireproof sensitive bits

>>51932431
Ascension is when you realize that the world moves with you.

Now, I'm not trying to get into some undefined hippy bullshit when I say that. In Old World of Darkness a Mage with Quint 1-5 is unable to picture their place in the world perfectly. They exist as the supernatural in a world of the mundane, shunted not out of but to the side of the world at large. They view themselves through the lens of a body and a mind while their Soul sits just to the side where it is tutored by their Avatar. One Ascends to Archmastery when they realize they are capable of doing so and understand exactly what was holding them back can, literally, be moved. When they grasp hold of the tapestry of Quintessence and peer beyond it they Ascend, once more being reunited with their soul in a more perfect being.

Take it from this perspective: A mountain climber is climbing a mountain. He reaches up and grabs some handhold naturally formed in the rock. Eventually he gets to a point he can rest, sit down, etc, and look at his progress. When he looks down he sees nothing but sheer cliff for three of his body length and can't for the life of him figure out how he climbed up. When he goes to continue though, he realizes that he wasn't grabbing onto a ledge or rock on the mountain, but that the mountain was moving in response to his gestures. That is awakening. Ascension is when you realize that the gestures mean nothing, the ropes mean nothing, and the mountain means nothing. The Mountain wasn't moving in response to you, you were moving it.

>>51933081

So basically Neo ascended in the Matrix (locally just in the Matrix)... anyway, how about nWoD (1e)? Do you or someone else know how ascention works there?

>>51933228
>how about nWoD (1e)? Do you or someone else know how ascention works there?

nWoD Ascension is similar, if more understood. You chain your Gnosis higher and higher, eventually culminating in some sort of 'test' appearing before you, as dispensed by a universe yoiu have been working to hone closer and closer to your own views on the Supernal into BOOM! You vanish in a searing flash of light which removes all evidence of you having ever existed...except for some scattered remains such as your former corpse, artifacts and grimoires. The only published ascended being was one of the defining members of the Mysterium. She became Magic/Prime.

>>51933332

Interesting. I'd like for my players to have a possible end-goal, however difficult, that's a thing I like about Promethean as well. It's not likely to happen, but just maybe you can.

>>51933781
You don't have to seek the threshold mind you, if you want you can keep plugging at mysteries forever, since if you fail those final tests you are literally unmade. Not dead, retconned out of existence. Definite risk vs. reward to consider

>>51934065
The best part is you can just run out of arcane xp and fall into the abyss.

>>51934065

Hm, I was just about to say that "Well, we all die anyway" but then I remembered that there's sould in WoD. Yeah, if I was a mage I'd say fuck ascending and let's enjoy existence. That makes it much more scary, for lack of a better word.

>>51934101
Hahahaha, holy shit what? Tell me more.

>>51934101
If you have 3-5 resolve and composure you should be able to do it in 10 arcane xp. Though the dice could tell you to fuck off.

The bigger issue is the one time only roll.

>>51934122
When forging your Golden Road across the abyss to first obtain Arch Mastery in an arcanum you have to make rolls that require you to spend arcane xp. Both failure and running out of arcane xp end poorly. For an archmaster who's already completed said journey a similar fall drops them into the abyss faced with Rank 8 abyssal entities. It pretty much means you're fucked unless someone else intervenes.

>>51934114
But that entire existence is a lie and only by Ascending can you free yourself from it.

>>51934248
You only have to do the abyssal and supernal trial once. By fall you mean cause a massive paradox.

>>51934287
Yeah, breaking your Golden Road with paradox sounded a lot like fucking it up to begin with to me.

Are the demon descent players and storyteller guides worth it? I know I can just get a pdf online but I like physical copies of shit.

>>51929656

Caine can't beat an Archmage.

I'm about to play my first game of Mage: The Ascension and I have some questions

The storyteller says Matter cannot create stuff out of nothing, that you need Prime for that, but I've read that's not the case, how does it work?

Additionally, what kinda stuff can I do with three dots in Matter and Forces?

>>51934274

Yes, but I'd rather live a lie than not exist at all.

>>51935006
>Yes, but I'd rather live a lie than not exist at all.
Yeah it really depends on how that whole 'being a living god' thing is working out for you.

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>>51929688
>I don't have time for mortals

That's a good way to get yourself turned into a lawn chair, Caine.

>>51934993
>The storyteller says
Your question has already been answered then. THe opinions of nobodies on a taiwanese shadow-puppet forum don't matter.

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>>51927813
Round 1
>Archmage vs Caine
>Archmage wins
Round 2
>Archmage vs God
>Outcome undetermined
Round 3
>Winner vs Samuel Haight
>Existence blows up

>>51935320
I'd buy this supplement.

>>51935320
>Samuel Haight
I'm not sure I recall everything about him, care to give a summary ?

Sup /tg/.

I like the basic concept of Ascension and Awakening, but I don't like the way magic is split up. How much would it break the system if I threw out Matter, Prime, Time, Life etc and replaced it with more narrowly defined arcana?

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>>51935320
>Existence blows up

It's not like you can't already do this as an Archmage.

>>51889935

>blows bubble

>>51935243
Well yeah but I feel like he's just misinformed, rather than just making a conscious rules patch

>>51935618
In Ascension it's fine. Alternate spheres are entirely supported by the game.

>>51934993
>The storyteller says Matter cannot create stuff out of nothing, that you need Prime for that, but I've read that's not the case, how does it work?
The books I've read say you need Prime to make things from nothing.

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nWoD 1e Mage confirmed redpilled

>>51935618
>Ascension?
Go ahead hombre.
Magic is what you think it is.
The Spheres are propoganda.

>Awakening
Pls no

>>51935852

I just read matter 5 in nWoD 1e, it has a specific spell that can create objects out of thin air, seems to be pretty much anything you want as long as you can get enough successes (they take creating a BMW out of thin air as an example).

>>51936006
>Awakening
>Pls no
Why that? I read that nWoD generally has better/fixed mechanics

>>51936010
nWoD isn't oWoD.

>>51934993
Aren't you surrounded by atoms?

>>51936042
It does (to me), however oWoD/Ascension has a lot more of a fluid Magic system that's more open to interpretation, so it more easily accommodates such changes in its fluff and system.

However Awakening is a lot more fixed, Paths and character creation is more rigidly connected to specific Arcana, and fragmenting them further will only make that harder.

Basically Ascension accommodates more fragmented Sphere from the get-go, as Mages might actually believe that, and their belief allows that to function, and that'w ritten into the system.
Awakening had everyone stuck into a rigid Magic system, which only breaks if you go MAD.

I'm starting to think that there's no way that Uratha and spirit mages won't clash hard if they come across each other, I mean the level of spirit-fuckery is OBSCENE. Making the gauntlet weaker/stronger, changing one spirit to another or just flat out creating brand new spirits, becoming the leader of a fucking spirit court of you own creation, making spirits materialize in the flesh... as an old Spirit Police player, this would never fly on my turf.

>>51936327

They also wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Not by themselves, at least. A single Thyrsus is enough to take on a Pack.

>>51936327
>>51936467

Uratha are far less "spirit police" in 2e.

In any event, the issues of mage / werewolf interaction were dealt with in The Pack, Werewolves consider mages to be very dangerous and unforgiving, and unless a particular mage is causing extreme havoc in a pack's territory, they will given a wide berth.

>>51936327
Yeah, Mages have power. Nothing new there.
Mages abuse that power sometimes? Sure.

Uratha decide that the simple existence of power means that they should oppose it regardless of circumstances?
That's a sure-fire way of getting your entire Pack wiped out.

Also
>Spirit Police
Fuckin wot m8?
They went to great lengths to explain that Uratha are not "Spirit police".
More like gardeners... I guess.

>>51935914

i would ignore if it was in V or W, but seeing this in Mage, that is actually quite sp00ky

>>51935914

I almost forgot how badly Mage 1e art sucked.

If for no other reason, Mage 2e is a vast improvement simply due to the lack of unicycles.

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>>51936862
You think that's bad?
I blame the art of the Thearch from the 1e book for many people's perceptions of the Silver Ladder.

What did they choose to get across the group that seeks to unite the Awakened of the world, empower them to new heights, and ensure that Sleepers can Awaken and join in the new enlightened society? Propelling all of minkind to the glorious destiny it deserves?

Some fucking long-necked creeper a torn suit and sandals, with fucking alien facial features, two caterpillars on his brow, retarded glasses, a haircut that makes me cringe, and a snarl on his face.

>>51936972
Is this a Jojo reference?

>>51936972
Didn't they even reuse this art for Cloud Infinite in Left-Hand Path? Why this, of all things?

>>51937099
Because he looks like the kind of grubby loser who'd hijack someone's fucking soul so he could outsource some brainpower.

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>>51936327
>>51936467
>>51936618
>>51936653

Why do magefags always feel the need to bully werefags without remorse?

>>51937547
Because werefags want nothing more than to rape magefags if not put in their place

>>51931183
Not enough *PSSSSSSH* anon. Not enough *PSSSSSSSH*.

>>51929474

Is this the new one?

>>51935651

Do Artifacts really grant that much leeway in successes though? I mean, if you only need a single one, why not just cover yourself in them at all times?

>>51937989
Not that guy but yeah, those look like the new UA books from their recent kickstarter.

>>51934993

Mage is the ultimate game of "mother may i" and your mother said no

>>51934459
I'd say they're worth it.

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>>51937725
I prefer the term non-con.

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She Ascended right?

>>51938313

Anime is shit

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>>51938313
she did

Pinky still best doke.

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>>51938240
Why do werefags want to ruin mage boipucci so much?

>>51938313
>Retroactively erased herself from existence in a ritual which saves individuals from a horrifying existence as a creature of the Abyss by absorbing the taint from their souls and carrying it with her to the Supernal, only for it to be purified by the sheer power of that place, permitting them to die in peace
Sounds like an Ascension Ritual to me.

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What entity would be the most fit to bind a Thyrsus maiden and an Irraka lad?

>>51938580
....As mates for life

>>51938580
>entity
A knot spirit

>>51938603
Musubi

>>51938079
That's exactly how Artifacts works. All you need is a single success to pull off its effect(s). Mages (being the masters of munchkiry) have plenty of ways to cast spells on-the-spot, whether it be by hanging, holding, Wards or Wonders.

Even Archmages can cast Arch-Sphere effects at the snap of their fingers, assuming they plan accordingly. The bubble gum example above is rather crude, but nonetheless entirely possible.

I just wonder what sort of Paradigm would correspond to candy as a Focus?

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>>51938129
>He prefers to believe his table top games with a DM aren't Mother May I
>This is what homosexuals actually believe.

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>>51926621
>What was the most "Oh shit" (when you realized you fucked up) moment you had in one of your games?

When the cute, sleepy Ancient Mesoamerican Methuselah boy we explored the temple to diablerize was wide awake when we arrived.

>>51938240
>>51937725
>>51937547

Insolent mutt, Heel Before Zod!

>>51938944
Could the typical Mage defeat General Zod?

>>51938580
Acanthus master of fate.

>>51938932
That thing does NOT look like a "boy"

>>51938957

Superman and his kin are explicitly weak to magic in the DC verse. They have no way to defend against it.

So the answer is yes.

>>51938969
Bro, we were told it was going to be an easy job, just smash and grab his juicy insides.
It was horrible. He set my dude and two other dudes on fire, old school, and crushed the Toreador with the Zulo.

>>51938985
But they're Way Fast, bro. How quickly can the average Mage perceive? It's like a Ten Dot Potence Ten Dot Celerity death train, innit?

>>51939005

Should have brought a mage with you.

>>51938957
>General Zod

>Mid-level, low-Wisdom Obrimos

>>51939032

Mages deal with speed-blitzing all the fucking time. Vampires using Celerity can outrun bullets, which, if using the average handgun as a base example, means running at 1,700 mph.

But does that mean anything to Mages? Nope. The Kindred still burns brightly. You also seem to forget about the Friction Curse, the absolute counter to any speed-blitz attack. Not even the Flash is going to survive that.

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Are vampires immune to drugs?
Why aren't there any Vamps who capture a low dot mage and trip balls off its blood? I felt like there was a missed story opportunity.

Different paths have different trips.
I'd want to kidnap a Thyrsus and feel alive again.

>>51939096
Time Mages can run faster than Vampires

>Acceleration supremacy

>>51939139
Vampires drinking Mage blood is a very, VERY bad idea.

>>51939036
Nah, my Tremere dude had already laid a thaumaturgical whammy on him to give -5 to his dice pools. The grumpy zulo did the rest. Cracked his chest right open.

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>>51938751
I'm starting to see why people hate Ascension.

I'm starting to understand that I should never use them in my stories.

>>51939032

Forces 2 can render a mage virtually immune to kinetic and heat damage.

Forces can control gravity, momentum, frictions, etc.

And that's just raw brawn. Add some mental domination with Mind, create Kryptonite with Matter, anticipate their moves with Time or Fate or various other Arcana effects, and Kyrptonians are a mere nuisance to most mages.

>>51938240
I prefer not being raped.

>>51939388
Then why are Mages so shit at defeating their faggy antags?

>>51939222
>>51939139

Members of the Lancea et Sanctum drinking Obrimos blood, what could go wrong...

>>51939451
>Deus Vult; vampire edition

Now that would be something to see.

>>51939447
>Then why are Mages so shit at defeating their faggy antags?

Because Mage antagonists are far more powerful compared to the rest? Other mages, Abyssal horrors and fallen gods are disgustingly powerful.

Don't even get me started on super-villain Archmages.

>>51939485
I guess it just seems like such powerful glass cannons should basically all be dead because of dumb Mage shit, so that there are straggler individuals, not teams and traditions and shit. Like a class of kindergarteners with shotguns hopped up on cocaine. Most should've died already if they're so dangerous.

>>51939524
Mages aren't stupid. They're obsessive and hubristic, but not stupid.

Dumb Mages never live long.

>>51931912
Brujah

>>51939569
Yeah, but even a smart Mage will die when his foes are Superman-slaying Overdudes.

>>51935320
A S H T R A Y
S
H
T
R
A
Y

>>51939139
There was a Ravnos in V:tM who was addicted to drugs so he had his herd get high before feeding on them

>>51939594

Not really.

>>51939594
Which "overdudes" are you alluding to?

It entirely depends. Some Mage antagonists can only be dealt with by Archmasters.

>>51939641
Fuck, so playing Mage is just about being a paranoid artist hiding in a box? That's not escapism! That's miserable!

>>51939524
>Mage shit, so that there are straggler individuals, not teams

Mage society and culture revolve around cabals formed mostly for mutual protection and common interest.

Fighting an individual mage if terrifying, taking on a cabal is suicide by mage.

>>51939702
Yeah, if you need a whole Pack to deal with a single Spirit Mage, I can only imagine how fighting a Cabal would be.

>>51939370
>this splat is stronger than my fav splat
>It must be a bad game

Why are so many fags jealous of Mage

>>51939785
I'm not jealous. I pity the players more than anything.

>>51939760
>if you need a whole Pack to deal with a single Spirit Mage, I can only imagine how fighting a Cabal would be.

And the Thyrsus is rarely one of the big guns of a cabal.

That pack is gonna be in a world of hurt when that Thrysus is backed up by an Acanthus and Mastigos on defense and an Orbimos and Moros on offense.

>>51938751

So Ascension mages can get away with whatever they want right off the bat?

Good to know. I'm liking both Mage lines more and more by the minute. I am a magefaggot in the making.

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>>51939867
Thyrsus a slut! SLUT!

>>51939867

Every Thyrsus I've seen has been a Life focused kung fu master. They can dragon kick your ass into the milky way.

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>>51939222
What could go wrong? You trip for a few hours and your bite sluts keep her chained up and blindfolded.

>>51940087
Have fun ODing on a potentially lethal Supernal trip.

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>>51940128

easiest save in the game

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>>51939999
>Acanthus abusing probability to give himself quads for his lewd Thyrsus posts

>>51939032
>>51939036
>>51938985
>>51938957

Depends on the time you are pulling Superman and Zod from.

Is this Silver Age? They're fucked 9 times out of 10.

Even pre-Nu52 we had a Superboy that punched time and space and shattered it. Kryptonians are bullshit. Maybe if it was an owod Archmage he could have an easy time unmaking him.

>>51940296
oWoD Archmage would just conjure a multiversal force that unmakes every Kryptonian everywhere.

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>>51940296

Forgot to add, this is shit Silver Age Superman does as like, a one-off panel (basically off screen its so unimportant) before starting an actual storyline.

Silver Age is nuts.

>>51940353
DCs Superman is strong.
Marvels Doctor Strange is stronger.

>Magic men > Super men

>>51940002
>Thyrsus I've seen has been a Life focused kung fu master.

That would imply the cabal would engage in melee combat with a pack of werewolves. Mages control the battlefield, not yield to the strength of their adversaries.

The Thrysus should neutralize the werewolves spirit abilities while the Obrimos and Moros turn the pack into charred and crispy, silver-skewered wolf kabobs.

Mmmm... who doesn't like Korean BBQ...

>>51940318
Archmagic has always been hard, I don't know why and how you think this is some sort of counterargument.

The whole casting issue is also moot once the respective Archmage has crafted personalized Artifacts and buckets of Charms, enabling the wizard to use the Arch-Spheres with little-to-no difficulty. Charms are pre-rolled and Artifacts only require a single success.

Perhaps you didn't fully read >>51938751

>>51939451
>Lancea et Sanctum drinking Obrimos blood

That doesn't sound good at all.

It'll probably start the equivalent of the vampire crusades.

>>51940398

Meh he could break Earth in half before Strange could do anything about it if he wanted to.

>>51940491
>Korean BBQ

Korean beef is fucking amazing

>>51940590
>Korean dog*

fixed.

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>>51940588
You realize that Doctor Strange has collapsed universes, right? He also had the pre-retcon Beyonder at his mercy.

He even went head to head with the goddamn Living Tribunal.

This isn't up for debate. Strange wins.

https://www.quora.com/Could-Dr-Strange-defeat-Superman

An end to the DC vs Marvel autism.

>>51940631

There's literally dozens of these arguments online.

>>51940631
Strange wins. There's a point where you need to acknowledge common sense. Can Superman even bypass his automatic contingencies? The "Invisible Shield of Everlasting Enchantment" has tanked big bangs and faster-than-light speed reactions.

Superman doesn't really stand a chance against Classic Strange. He isn't even the strongest magician in Marvel. HoM Wanda literally re-wrote the entire fucking Omniverse.

>>51940717

Superman Prime wins, but the rest get raped by Strange.

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>>51940717
>HoM Wanda literally re-wrote the entire fucking Omniverse

>>51940717

Strange doesn't prep shields anymore, if you're citing modern written Strange.

Use appropriate timeline and era references. Not disputing that he doesn't win, but you can't make blanket statements given the fluctuating power levels of comic book heroes.

>>51940738
>Superman Prime wins

Except he just doesn't. He has been over-wanked to death and isn't as powerful as people think he is.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/a-closer-look-at-superman-prime-one-million-1642666/

He's not even on the level of Galactus.

>>51940756
Classic Strange and Modern Strange are practically different characters.

Have you even been on Comicvine?

>>51940769

Galactus is the omniverse's Worf. He's the town bicycle of cosmic level villains for someone to defeat.

At least use the Living Tribunal or someone else.

Also the Flash beats all of them.

>>51940799
>Also the Flash beats all of them

Not really. Contingencies beat speed-blitzes. He's even more overrated than Prime. Flash can't even beat Odin.

>>51940792

I try to avoid most places like that because of the very sperg arguments we are having in here.

I will say this much, Superman and Dr. Strange are a lot cooler than any faggy sparkle princess waifu shit you homos probably play.

>>51940815


Which Flash? I mean, outrunning Death and all is .. a thing.

In Awakening 2e, if a mage has Forces 5 (or 4) and Life 4, can he turn himself into a living tornado, hurricane, fire storm or earthquake?

>>51940828
>outrunning Death

Not really impressive considering that would be common sense for people like Flash and Zoom. Super speed is guaranteed immortality if you really think about it.

>Which Flash?

Any flash.

>>51940865

But some are more powerful than others.

>mfw want to play Marvel Heroes cortex game as Dr. Strange
>the rules make him way weaker than he actually is
>GM thinks he's still too powerful

>>51940828
Flash can't outrun multiversal reality warpers.

Magic, psychic ability, mutant whatnot, cosmic power-sources, it doesn't matter.

Once Flash is stopped in his tracks, he's done for. His forte is the element of surprise.

>>51940889
>Cortex

There's your first problem.

>>51940868
>But some are more powerful than others

It doesn't matter. Contingencies are just too good for speed-blitzers. This has been debated all over Comicvine. I suggest you go take a look. Just try not to rip your face off after witnessing all the autistic people over there.

>>51940894

Wasn't there Omega level mutants who could potentially kill the universe if they weren't huge cucks or actually trained their powers more?

Where does Hulk fit in this power level discussion when at his most powerful?

>>51940915
Mad Jim Jaspers and Havok are omniversal mutants.
Merlyn and Wanda Maximoff are omniversal wizards.

There's a good few omniversal characters.

The Protégé can copy any individuals powers wholly and completely. He was going to triumph over the Living Tribunal and attempt to take-on TOAA.

>>51940859
>mage with Forces 5 (or 4) and Life 4 turns himself into a living tornado, hurricane, fire storm or earthquake?

Sounds like an average Tuesday for your (not so) friendly neighborhood Obrimos.

>#ObrimosSupremacy

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>>51940964
>The Protégé

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>>51940859
What's a great way to destroy a Pack of disrespectful Uratha?

>Forces 4, Life 4, Matter 4

Turn yourself into living twister of silver fire.
What the fuck can they even do?

Monday Meeting Notes

http://theonyxpath.com/whoah-nelly-monday-meeting-notes/

>MFW Signs of Sorcery is still languishing in endless "Development" purgatory

What a Strange (get it?) turn of events for the Chronicles of Fagness. Going full out comic fag.

I will imput my opinion that Doctor Strange takes a massive dump on both Superman and Flash.

>>51941065
>>51940988
>>51940859

If a mage needs to deal with a pesky undead infestation, he could also transform into living, animate sunlight and fire.

>>51940915
Sometimes it feels like you can't throw a rock and *not* hit a hideously powerful mutant capable of ending the world/universe/everything, and the writers are such hacks that they can't even be bothered to explain why this isn't so. It's insanely frustrating because the question of 'why did they even fucking make these guys' when they're clearly too pussy/incompetent/lazy to explore the implications of their existence is never, ever answered aside from them being hacks

>>51941138

Mage players wished they had characters as fun and cool as Dr. Strange.

>>51941176

And it's not just mutants. Wizards, cosmic hooligans and Skyfathers do equally insane shit all the damn time.

This is Marvel we're talking about. Nothing makes sense. DC is even worse when it comes to story consistency.

>>51941233

Welcome to cape comics.

If you want a consistent story you need one with a purpose and an ending. Comic book characters exist to keep printing more comics of them on yet more adventures. Chances are, you'll die before they ever end the IP.

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>>51941233
>Wizards
Merlyn can turn any individual universe/multiverse into a pebble and crush it.

He'd school Doctor Strange rather well.

>>51941087
>Necropolis: Rio in the final stage

By the Judges, is the appointed hour nigh?

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>>51926728
>>51926823
>>51926834
>>51929151

Someone who can read the subtext of the setting as the divine aspects where slowly revealed, culminating in Demon? I'm not sure you belong here.

>Good posts. I agree completely.

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>>51941334

I'm not sure what you're stating here.

Moving on.

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Werefags explain this

>>51941160
>If a mage needs to deal with a pesky undead infestation

Sadly, vampires are like cockroaches. You can crush a hundred under your superior mage heel, yet somehow there are even more scurrying about in the darkest and dankest places.

>>51941372
>gun wielding phalli

I now know what my next character is going to be.

>>51941399

I believe they call those Thinbloods.

They are the new morally righteous protagonists of the latest VtM mobile game. Expect to see more of them in the future~!

>>51941372

A guy with a sense of humor wrote some ridiculous bullshit for a Black Dog publication which is designed to be raunchy, edgy and stupid on purpose.

Try reading the rest of the book and you'll realize its largely humorous. Unlike say, FATAL, which is funny because its trying to be serious.

>>51941334
Did Caine want to fuck Abel?

>>51941462

only in your dreams, yaoifag

>>51941466
I just...the art, man. It looks like it is trying to say something. Either Caine wants to fuck Abel, or Abel wants to fuck that zebra and Caine is mildly disgusted but also intrigued by it.

Archmage goes back in time to stop Caine from killing Abel. What happens?

>>51941522
No more Vampires.

>>51941522

Archmage gets involved in some hot yaoi threesome.

>>51941539
Wouldn't God get pissed that his favorite punching bag just wouldn't be?

>>51941575
No. Because Caine wasn't his punching bag at the time.

>>51941601
God knows Caine is supposed to be his punching bag until this dickhole archmage took that away

>>51941522
>>51941626

The issue is God is omnipotent and omnipresent. As powerful as a Mage can become, God 'knew them in the womb' and is quite capable of having that particular Mage never rise to power. Why do you think this stuff didn't happen?

It's not exactly rocket science. Time fuckery is one of the first things even a normie thinks of when they consider the powers a Mage has access to.

>>51940524

Are nWoD Archmages as strong as this?
Or have they been toned down?

I don't like the idea of playing characters who can casually step on Caine and the Antediluvians like ants, and juggle universes with their butt cheeks while doing handstands.

>Thyrsus culinary tastes

>>51941439
Since I read that I haven't been able to picture any other sort of character for werewolf.

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>>51941192
>fun
>cool
>dr strange

Choose 1 famalam

>>51941575
Yep, desert jew god is an idiot like that. Full of inconsistent messages and hypocrisy.

>>51941771
>Are nWoD Archmages as strong as this?
17 successes on a ritual spell using Imperial Area Spell Factors creates a spell radius that exceeds that of the exosphere.

However such a spell would doubtless violate Pax Arcanum.
Which basically gives the Exarchs and every other Arch-Being on the planet the right to pile-drive your delicate ass until you no longer exist.

>>51941771
They've been shifted away from such overt things like blowing up universes.

Still really powerful though.

>>51941771
They can do it the chances of theme getting away with it or being undone isn't as possible. one of the imperial mysteries npcs has a goal that will destroy the world if it happens without a do over though.

>>51929284
Game about Doing Everything in a genre where you can do nothing. My Gnosis is trembling. Allmighty freedom is born within jail. Just like reality itself.
Game is about sleeper detective who investigate left-hand ritual and in last episode is Awekening itself, bright, loud realisation about selfcontrol and making his own decisions. Last 30 seconds is freeroaming rpg in contrast with railroad qte. Then titles roll over. You are now Free Mage.

>>51942677
There's a difference between destroying worlds and destroying galaxies.

Or universes even. Forces 9 is just that.

To everyone who thinks Mage is overpowered and doesn't fit, is Pact (web serial) more like you had in mind?

Magic in Pact focuses more around rituals, bargaining with demons and fae and spirits and ghosts, imbuing tools, specializing in one kind of magic, using runes and blood and power sources and such. Very simple but potent stuff. The strongest spell that's been cast so far was a time spell that made the protagonist experience 5 hours as about 5 minutes without realizing it (the goal being to trick him into being outside his "sanctum" after dark).

And as a side question, does the above description fit Sorcerer?

>>51941744

All of that depends on the ST.

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>>51942277
Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.

>>51942808
That's exactly what I want in a CofD magic user splat.

>>51942945

Well TOO bad! That's not what you get!

>>51942917

How so? God is commonly accepted to be omnipresent (unless he chooses not to be) and omnipotent. I suppose you can argue that the ST could decide this isn't the case, but by that logic we could state nothing, not even rules in the splats, as they are subject to change by the ST.

There is a point where we are talking generally, and not 'in my very specific ST bubble'. Or not, and there is just no discussion, just endless mage wankery.

>>51943065
>God is commonly accepted to be omnipresent (unless he chooses not to be) and omnipotent
By the bible yes, by the printed WoD books not so much. Why does everyone think the IRL bible is not only cannon to WoD but 100% true in it?

>>51943065
I think he means that since God isn't statted, it's up to the ST just how powerful and present he is.

>>51943065
>God is commonly accepted to be

No. This isn't "commonly accepted", sorry.
Stop trying to tell others how to run their stories.

>>51943065

Each gameline has their own supreme being. Some of which overlaps with others.

This isn't debateable.

>>51941771
Archmages are the absolute strongest things playable. This is entirely by design, of course.

It wouldn't make any sense for something (that's playable) to rival them, as that would undermine one of the biggest core themes of both Mage game-lines.

>>51943320
Also in CofD, unlike oWoD, they portray Archmasters as tragic figures.

There's no point getting attached to anything in the physical world, because it might be accidentally annihilated by the next moron's poorly planned Imperial practice.
Furthermore you have to take actual effort to manifest physically, and the Pentacle will no longer tolerate your membership within it.
Your very existence becomes fluid in reality, people forget you, your own history becomes uncertain and false.

Furthermore, you have now drawn the attention of the Exarchs, and various other beings who are so, so much stronger than you are.

Sure you can fellate the capacity of Gnosis 9, Fate 9 Archmasters who can retroactively fuck with cosmological Fate. But the difference between them and someone who just complete their Threshold Seeking is more monumental than the difference between a newly Awakened schmuck and a 4th Degree Master.

>>51943407
>various other beings who are so, so much stronger than you are

It's worth noting that eventually Archmasters can rival the likes of these stronger beings. Spirit 9 is enough to enslave rank 8 spirits like Luna.

Seekers have a spot in each rank depending on how capable they are. Other beings do not have the luxury of increasing in power, as they are forever set in stone without the fundamental re-arrangement of the cosmos.

>>51943320
Archmasters are playable though. For the most, they are better, a single six/seven dot mage armor makes it impossible for anyone not an archmaster to attack them that doesn't mean threats of equal nature isn't possible.

>>51943524

Nothing currently playable is enough to reliably challenge an Archmaster.

>>51943128

Sure it is. What you mean is you refuse to debate it. Which is fine, it is just totally debatable.

>>51943114
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I'm sorry, I'll take a step back out of your safe space and leave you to your bubble.

>>51943760
Sorry that your fanfiction doesn't align with the rest of us, or anything canonically published for that matter.

If Apocalypse labels the Triat as supreme.
There's nothing you can do about it.

If Masquerade labels the Judeo-Christian God as supreme.
There's nothing you can do about it.

If Ascension labels an extradimensional consciousness as supreme.
There's nothing you can do about it.

You're attempting a canon vs canon skirmish. It never ends well, with that.

>>51943809
>fanfiction doesn't align with the rest of us, or anything canonically published for that matter.

And I'm sorry you have such a flimsy stance that you feel the need to appeal to majority as an arguement. Especially as the writers and minds behind Vampire, Hunter, and Demon outright disagree with you, and the other splats keep it ambiguous.

Mages have more 'beliefs' than you are listing, and Apocalypse is Apocalypse. If they see anything that doesn't fit their world view they see it as 'wyrm taint'. The 'gods' and powers in these splats are implied in the novels and later splats to be angels and divine sparks.

You would be better arguing that Mage and Werewolf don't share the same cosmology as three that seem rather closely tied together in their backgrounds.

>>51942923
It really can't for the religions that don't claim to have an omnipotent creator god who allows a bunch of evil bullshit to happen.

>>51943881
>Especially as the writers outright disagree with you
I would like a citation for that, please and thank you.

>Apparent disregard for Ascension and Apocalypse
I guess both game lines are completely incorrect then, huh? What a very poor view, Anon. Masquerade is clearly the end all setting.


I wasn't expecting this less than coherent response. I am under the assumption that you aren't very familiar with various source material of the outside lines when comparing them to Masquerade.
I'm just going to wait for the above citation(s), because you honestly don't have the necessary stones to hold up this conversation.

>>51943065

At this point I'd be happy for the Magefags to come back and jack off to the idea of God being an ascended Archmage.

Somehow that's less autistic and masturbatory. At least then its not a bunch of real life Christians being smug about it like you.

In Mage 2e, why is Channel Mana a Prime 3 Weaving spell, but Channel Essence only requires Spirit 2 Ruling?

>>51944131
Channel Mana should probably be Ruling in Practice, but Disciple level sounds about right.

>>51943951
>Unless you read through hundreds upon hundreds of books spread across a dozen cores, and a literal mound of fiction often set in a crossover take on the setting (which is basically your answer right there), and come back with enough quotes to make me just pretend you never posted for a few threads, then you have no balls.

...really? Show me your honor! No... your other honor.

Tell you what, I'll drop it and concede that I'm wrong and a giant poopyhead (with no stones). But I'm also going to keep a fucking notebook next to me as I go through the various books again, and note down every inference, subtext and reference to this topic as I go. However...

Thankfully, however, pointing out...
>Masquerade is clearly the end all setting.

You are basically agreeing that my stance is as valid as you own, even if we don't agree. I would argue that when three game lines agree, an argument can very much be made for Mage and Werewolf being the ones with their own in-setting theology that is likely incorrect or at least narrow. No one says that Mage's don't Ascend to godlike-states; but but that doesn't naturally make them the be-all and end-all when they do, or even the biggest fish in the sea. No ones says the Wyrm/Weaver ect don't exist, just that they might not be exactly what the shapre changing druids think they are.

>>51943954
>REEEEEEEE: The Sequel.

>>51944145

The disparity reeks of "game balance," something Dave swore no longer afflicted the Arcana.

I would love to hear his explanation.

>>51934886
>Caine can't beat an Archmage.

Caine here.
Yes, I can.

Let's not forget the curse / blessing of God, too.
No one can beat me, every attack turns into instant karma.

>>51944156
No he said game balance with other supernaturals wasn't happening. He didn't say no game balance at all.

>>51944131
I would assume because Essence is more of a free-flowing kind of energy, while Mana is vanishingly rare and can't be constituted out of nothingness.

It's like trying to suck water or concrete through a hose.

I mean, that's how I'd explain it.

>>51944207

Dave said all the artificial roadblocks in the Arcana would be removed. Everything would work with the appropriate Practice

File: Archmagus.jpg (142KB, 507x720px) Image search: [Google]

142KB, 507x720px

>>51944197
>Yes, I can.
Archmage here
I can, and will, send you straight into oblivion, my friend.

>curse / blessing of God
I remove your curse using Entropy 4, Life 4, Matter 4, Prime 6
I also take away your Vampirism, no more Disciplines for you, friend!


I sure hope God doesn't get angry with me...
Unless.... I already am God?

>>51944217

It's sounds as if you're grasping at straws trying find a justification for the current disparity, rather than demonstrating any real confidence that channeling mana and essence truly require different Practices.

>>51944197

Archmages can remove God-driven curses/blessings using Prime 6.


>>51944225

Beat me to it.

Can Imperial Mysteries be adapted to 2e?

>>51944238
>trying find a justification for the current disparity
I'd rather do that then bitch incessently about something that's not going to change.

Same story with summoning ephemeral entities, which should "logically" be Ruling, but is instead Weaving.

>>51944225

That wizard is carry way too much dangerous crap. If he accidentally tripped, the explosion would probably take out a continent.

>>51944248
Dave said yes

But who knows when that will be?

>>51944248
>Imperial Mysteries be adapted to 2e?

It shouldn't be too difficult.

Have you tried?

>>51944197
I fail to see how a planetary threat (Caine) is going to equate to a universal one, such as Archmages and Celestines?

>>51944252
>not living life in the danger zone

>>51944252
>If he accidentally tripped, the explosion would probably take out a continent

More like our own Milky Way Galaxy.

>>51944156
Can you explain why they should be the same level?

>>51944280
>not living life in the danger zone

I now want to create a mage with the shadow name Loggins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siwpn14IE7E

>>51944290
>Can you explain why they should be the same level?

Both spells channel an extradimensional fuel source.

If channelling mana and essence truly require different Practices, I am curious as to why in order to better understand and apply the Creative Thaumaturgy rules for spells dealing with other similar types of fuel such as glamour or sekhem.

>>51944322
I would personally suggest that Awakened Magic cannot touch Glamour or Sekhem.

As both are suggest not to be naturally occuring elements of the world.
While Essence most assuredly is.

>>51944350

>>51944225
>>51944246
>>51944275

Caine here, again.

Listen, guys.
I'm depressed.
I've lived for several millenia; my children are dead, my grandchildren are dicks.
I've witnessed all the wars, all the violence and insanity of mankind.

You think I'm a cool and powerful man, but after all these time I realized: I'm actually autistic.
Please don't mock me.
Hell, I sarcificed my brother to God because I loved both of them - see what I'm trying to say here?

You think I'm preparing for Gehenna or some other cool and terrifying thing, but no...
I'm browsing 4chan. Especially /r9k/.
I'm not kidding. I have problems.
I'm 24/7 on suicide watch.

You think it's easy living with the thought that I blood bonded my waifu?
That I cursed my own grandchildren?!

And here we are, discussing how you want to blast me into oblivion.
Thanks... Feels good, really.

Comparing dicks, even in the shadow of Gehenna. Typical.
Fuck this shit. Fuck Golconda or archamges.
I don't care anymore.

>>51944322
Essence (like spirits) is native to the Fallen Realm. The Shadow itself is also a part of the Fallen World.

Mana is alien, being Supernal in origin.

I wouldn't even say that Essence is extradimensional, but even if you say it is, you can't really deny that Mana is in a different league of extradimensional altogether.

So there you go. Essence can be easily compelled because it belongs here, and its flow and existence is a natural part of the world, easily compelled. Mana is alien, and therefore requires a stronger Mage and a more controlling practice to directly manipulate.

"Both spells channel an extradimensional fuel source" as a justification to put them on the same level honestly reeks way more of "game balance".

>>51944446
Don't be like that Caine.

I'll always love you. I wish you were in Requiem.

>>51944446
>I'm on 24/7 suicide watch.
Don't do it, man. You have so much to live for.

>>51940251
That's what you get, whore!

>>51940817
>Superman and Dr. Strange are a lot cooler than any faggy sparkle princess waifu shit you homos probably play.

Seconding this. /tg/ a shit.

>>51940927
He's shit. Too slow and no utility or mobility powers.

>>51944446
>You think it's easy living with the thought that I blood bonded my waifu?

Who wouldn't blood bond their waifu? Slavish devotion is damn sexy

>>51945088
No one makes threads for your autistic cancer.

>>51945060
t. Beta path moros

>>51941065
>Bringing Eberron into your Mage game

I approve.