Warmachine/Hordes General

So how about THIS for a Skorne pairing?

>(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
- Mammoth [38]
- Agonizer [6]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]

Pretty much the stock Rasheth list at this point, no reason to fix something that isn't broken.

>(Xerxis 1) Tyrant Xerxis [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Molik Karn [19]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [18]
- Tyrant Vorkesh [6]
Cataphract Incindiarii (max) [17]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Feralgeist [2]

Karn is the ARM crack of choice because Reposition 5 lets him walk back and get screened by Karax, something he couldn't do in Mk2. Cetrati are your brick, Incindiarii keep the board empty, Agonizer keeps it all alive, Feralgeist sits on a flag like a cheap cunt. And on feat turn, Karn kills anything.

>>51921609
These make me moist

Posted in the last thread right as it ended, what are people's opinions of Power of Dhunia? I know that it is the best theme list Trolls have, but I wanna know if people think that its better to play in theme than out of theme.

I'll need to buy a lot more beasts and runeshapers to make viable PoD lists.

>>51921609
I think with the change to dark rituals, every rasheth list I make is going to have rhadeim.

>>51921580
I love that Hungerford is doing an actual facepalm watching that shit

are the Glacier King/Mountain King models on the same chassis, or would I need to buy both instead of magnetizing

2d terrain is boring, this is what happens when a game caters to the WAAC crowd.

>>51923970
Warmahordes has shitty terrain rules, news at 11.

>>51923789
Same Chassis
Vastly different models
Need to buy both

Where's the fucking Grymkin spoilers.

>>51923970
2d terrain is alright at cons, with one 64 person event, have fun making and transporting modeled terrain for 32 boards. Shit just gets worse if you have more events or more players.

>>51923789
buy the kit + chinaman spare body

>>51924039
>>51924564
Tournaments usually have their own terrain on the spot. And 40K terrain rules are worse yet they never have an issue fielding it.

>>51924614
Cuz the only thing people run are flyers
>>51924039
I'm kind of curious about this. Is it because so many models can ignore it entirely? Or because there's no real rules that interact with it?
Probably because of the charge rules.

Still, I'd like to run a small game using a lot of impassable buildings and see how it goes.

>>51924837
>>51924614
It's mostly because the terrain is so binary. The game requires precision movement, so the halving rule is a huge hassle, and with a game that can be won and lost on fractions of an inch, that shit matters. That's why people play with 2D terrain, and with generally flat terrain. The game does not encourage close enough, and so players conform to that.

Pathfinder is way too powerful and widespread in how it interacts with terrain, because it basically ignores most of the drawbacks.

But this is, for example, why you don't see tables just straight full of terrain, because that shit is disgusting to try and play with.

If you want to know how fucked up terrain is, rules wise, look no farther than Wurmwood's feat, especially the old one. Making a 14" area a forest is absolutely crippling to so many models.

>>51923970
That's fair enough. I suppose a game that's completely random for rules but scenic is far superior.

Games like 40k? To determine a winner, you might as well roll a d6 each and the higher roll wins. Oh, but all that 3d terrain looks awesome.

>>51921609
I'm a new skorme player, what would swap the mammoth out for in that rasheth list?

>>51925394
The closest would probably be 2x Cannoneer and another Soulward. That should play reasonably similar to the Mammoth.

>>51921609
I don't like combining two slow lists, so I'd change the X1 list up a bit. You don't need Karax and Cetrati, one of them is enough. You likely don't need Incindiarii at all. Free up some points and get some Ferox in there.

As for beasts I'd either go full brick and replace Molik with something more tanky or go full offense and replace the Sentry with a Gladiator.

Is Steamroller 2017 out yet?

I feel like it's going to suck. And I'm usually positive about everything mk3.

>>51924946
I play with at least the official amount of terrain and from time to time with full blown scenic tables and I must say, lots of terrain encourages interesting tactics. My favourite one was city full of impassable buildings that would create a maze of streets and seing people (or getting to do it myself) try their best to time flanks on multiple small clusters of models from different routes was an absolute charm. Back to the main topic, there are rarely situations where 3d terrain would screw you over as you virtually never toe into elevation and of you are not a landwhale there will be no issue with leaning over the table to see past obstructions.

>>51925057
As of mk3 40k became the more tactical game. You can still take busted models and rolfstomp, but if you agree to both bring balanced forces it is about planning, positioning and strategy. With how dumbed down wmh became after transition and the power attack errata, the game comes down to model A moves directly towards model B, the model with better statline wins. There is no more gotchya, no more tricks, no more setting up Rube Goldberg machines, way less decisions in listmaking and the terrain has less impact so you dont play around it. It went from three hypothetical layers of startegy to about one.

hey mangs, i play warhammer 40k but i want to get on warma/hordes because everyone here on tijuana plays it and just 3 of my friends play 40k, how would you recomend to get into this game? is it any similar to warhammer?

>>51925762
It's not all that much like 40k. It's more of a game and somewhat less of a hobby (though that depends on you alone).

You best start out by having one of the existing players (ask for a Press Ganger if available) show the game to you. Then decide on a faction, get a battle box and learn, learn, learn.

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>>51926212
>It's more of a game and somewhat less of a hobby
What's the difference?

Warmahordes being less about YOUR DUDES with custom weapons and loadouts and more about taking set-in-stone units and characters?

>>51926321
Yes that. But on the other hand, the game is much more solid. Playing RAW is not shunned because the rules are (in >99% of cases) robust enough to handle it. The balance is, while not perfect, a whole lot better and the gameplay just offers way more depth.

>>51925762
40k players will initially be confused, because Warmachine has rules that make sense.

>>51921826
Trolls don't need mercs for any utility, so any beast-oriented list is better in theme. Take whelps, free whelps are very good.

>>51923970
Yeah, because positioning some clusterfuck melee with multiple units/heavies around 3d hill/ruins when objectives are involved and clock is ticking is so fun and not stressfull at all.

>>51926629
>put models on hill next to whatever you want to melee
>roll dice
>end your turn
Are you really that thick?

>>51926405
>rules that make sense.

well i dont want to fight over this but in the 2 years that i have played 40k i havent been confused by the rules, the only rule that my group didnt get fully arround was the infiltrating stuff and one from a model called hellbrute, but besides that i dont really get that meme

>>51926885
The point is most likely that they are inefficient (lots of rules to do very little) and tend to have a lot of loopholes.

>>51926885
Lots of Waynes Dorkshop rules are written sloppily and without consideration of interaction with other rules, leading to lots of confusion and broken loopholes (like two seperate squads of guys giving each other cover saves when placed into each other in 5th ed).

In Warmachine, pretty much every single dispute can be solved by opening the rule book. No interpretations, no guesswork, it's factual.

>>51927069
>No interpretations, no guesswork
To be fair here, it's more like "very little interpretation". For example the Drag rule allows you to push a model "any distance", but that is ruled to be "the largest possible distance", which I don't really consider RAW.

>>51924094
how hard would a recast of the chassis be?

>>51927166
>To be fair here, it's more like "very little interpretation"
Yeah, the Infernal rulings are a thing, but I think they have to be. Writing a ruleset that is 100% immune to all rules lawyering is probably not possible in a game this size.

But there's no comparison to the average level of rules GW has put out over the years. They've had a few real hits (Epic Armageddon springs to mind), certainly... but more often than not, trying to play a game with GW rules is like trying to create a precision machine part from a drawing made on the back of a bar napkin with a crayon that you found crumpled in your pocket after an all night bender.

>>51927225
>how hard would a recast of the chassis be?
They have no parts in common. Converting one of the Kings into the other would be far, far more hours of work than it would take to get the money to buy one. If that's your thing, fine, just know what you're getting in to.

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Finally finished my Blood of Martyrs.

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>>51928180
And Scourge of Heresy. Now to paint eight more heavies.

>>51928180
>>51928189

Nice.
I like the Scourge of Heresy better but they are both nice

>>51928320
Thank you very much. Scourge's sword was very fun to paint.

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>>51928571
I used to paint my Protectorate mostly white, but it was destroying my will to live. Went primarily red instead.

I salute your ability to slog through the white, fellow Menite anon

I just picked up the Menoth battlebox this weekend. What would be solid models to go along with that? Also I wasn't very impressed with the model quality in the battlebox, my Castigator came out bad since the pipes on one side couldn't even be bent so they would connect in the right place.

>>51929114
Reckoner/Castigator/Sanctifier chassis molds are pretty brutal, anon -- there are really bad mold lines along the Menofix on the shoulders, too.

Beyond the Mk3 battlebox, I'd recommend:

- Choir of Menoth
- Crusader/Templar/Vanquisher kit
- Vassal of Menoth x2 (I wouldn't have recommended these in Mk3 a few months ago, but I find myself running in theme quite a bit, and two of these is a no brainer, and they're very cheap -- iirc, MSRP is like $7)

>>51925761
Man, how disappointing for you that your lazy bait didn't get any responses.

Have a (You).

>>51928180
>>51928189

I hate to be that asshole, but thin your paints.

Those look good, but you'd take it to the next level if you couldn't see the texture of the paints on the model.

>>51929095
I loathe white without an airbrush.

With an airbrush it works a lot better; base coat everything brown, and do zenithal highlights up to white at the very top, and you get a nice, easy, and fast white that looks pretty good.

>>51929162
On a side note does Malekus work best with heavy jack or infantry armies?

>>51929252
Malekus is actually pretty versatile, and one of the few casters I regularly play out of theme, because he wants a bunch of things.

He supports infantry with Ignite (though in this meta I'd recommend against melee infantry with him), he supports jacks with Open Fire (RIP mk2 ancillary attack), and Scourge can win you games -- either by knocking down the enemy caster, or letting you trivially hit some damn DEF 14 warpwolves.

(He's really going to love the Revelator once it releases)

The last list I tried with him was:

Malekus
- Hierophant
- Hand of Judgment
- Reckoner
- Reckoner
- Eye of Truth

Choir of Menoth (Min)
Deliverer Sunburst Crew
Deliverer Sunburst Crew
Thorn Gun Mages
Thorn Gun Mages

Simply for fun, this list breaks a few of my 'guiding principles', in that it has no shield guards and no real protection for Malekus. It's built to maximize the feat turn.

>>51929240
Nice, that makes sense. I actually have an airbrush setup, but I'm a big dumb idiot who only uses it for priming, because I haven't been able to put the time in to learn how to use it properly (two kids, job, etc. etc.)

>>51925762
It's closer to card games than warhammer as in play meta list or get fucked. Playing something else is like trying to compete in constructed mtg with draft deck. The trade-off is that decisions matter a lot so you have a lot of room to improve on your tin soldier autism tactics.

>>51929769
>implying 'balanced' lists win in 40k

is there any way to play a "balanced," constructed format in Warmahordes? Has anyone attempted something like this?

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It's called ADR.

I think that if everyone was forced to play with the current ADR casters and rules, there would be close to perfect balance.

Speaking of Witch, does anyone have a source for the picture of the Old Witch they used for this picture?

>>51929424
I hear you, I've got three kids myself and haven't had time to sit down and paint in over a month.

In any case, what I do for white is:

- Prime brown (I use Vallejo's brown airbrush primer)

- Hit the model fairly well with Menoth White Base with the airbrush, but only angling the airbrush so I'm spraying horizontal with the base or pointing downwards.

- Hit the model with Menoth White Highlight, but only angling downward, maximum of about a 45 degree angle.

- Hit the model with white, spraying only straight downward

This gives a pretty good white; go lighter or heavier on the Menoth White Highlight and White if you want it lighter or darker, and that does a pretty good white for the whole model.

I'm still not good enough to do serious detail work with an airbrush (although I'm soon going to try to get a decent Ret color scheme that requires some finer airbrush work), but just doing the simple layered zenithal-style airbrushing gets you a nice-looking base coat that has the basic shading done pretty quick and it looks nice. You may, of course, want to deepen the shadows in stuff like cloaks, but it makes most surfaces that are solid colors look pretty nice.

>>51930497
ADR is actually good now that Una2 isn't a world-beater.

>>51931144
If Una was still old Una, I would not have suggested ADR.

>>51930497
Don't recognize the witchpic. Could be some of the new art they had done for the command books. A lot of it got used on the errata'd cards... seems like there's quite a bit.

>>51929769
I'd agree WMH is closer to card games like Magic than it is to warhammer, but not for the same reasons. You absolutely need to have a plan for your list and put together good combos and synergies to win, which is very magic-like. But it's more like the old wild-west days of Magic than modern MTG. There's no "deck" in WMH that plays itself for instance - a good player can still win even if he comes up against the so-called "hard counter" for his list(s).

And even though the net lists are popular, there's still a lot of variety... you're quite likely to run into a list you've never heard of at basically any tournament you attend. I mean, there's something approaching 200 casters in the game at this point, nearly all of which are viable for competitive play. Some are more powerful than others, of course, but the dark horse factor is a big deal in this game... failing to understand what the list across the table is trying to do will almost always cost you the game.

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>>51921580

Returning from early Mk2 and never really got into the game. Is Cryx still a cunt army to play under Mk3?

All I see is complaining about the faction, and I'm curious if this is players throwing a shitfit about being rebalanced, or legitimate complaints about being gutted.
A brief look at the College and they look pretty neat, but they are always placed at the bottom of Tier lists and complain about losing their identity.
Can any Cryx players please advise on:

> Battle Box quality
> Fun to play
> Fun to play against
> Internal balance

Cheers

So I played Skorne against Baldur2 today, and seriously what the fuck how am I meant to beat that? 14/20 heavies? I can barely hit them never mind actually damaging them.

>>51933167
Baldur2 is the weakest part of that list. Try to kill him if you can. Otherwise always boost to hit and realize Baldur2 doesn't have an str buff so he'll have problems killing you back.

>>51933307
>he'll have problems killing you back
Nigger fuck right off his shit just warps strength, gets primal, and I lose a heavy.

>>51933167

Have a Warlock that either MAT-fixes or POW-fixes warbeasts, then piece trade.

>>51933360
I was playing Rasheth and I couldn't touch him. My Mammoth physically couldn't reach his beasts because he was placing a wall so that I couldn't get over it or reach his stuff. Without the wall I wouldn't have had that big of a problem, but it kept cockblocking me. And holy fucking shit Woldwyrds need to be deleted from the game for how disgusting they are. Strong animus, a strong ability, and a ROF3 gun? I pay the same points for a fucking Cyclops Raider man how is this fair?

So new PP forums.

I'm thinking one of two things is at work here:

>1) The tendency to see problem you are currently experiencing as very important.

Managing their forums is unmitigated Work, now. They have to cut somebody a paycheck over it, which is definitely a threshhold to cross for topic awareness. Somebody then says "Fix this, this is important, it's ok to break some things to fix it- they aren't as important as this is.", and there you are.

>2) West Coast hiring culture

Hey who isn't on Facebook!? How are you supposed to Connect and pass around kitten memes without it?

>>51933167
Play Mak1

>>51933435

Bugs.

>>51933722
What do they do against 14/20s?

>>51933804

Fight them. Your real problem is going to be threat range and related to that surviving positioning, I think.

>>51933870
I'll go in, fail to kill, then they'll crush me on the backswing is what it feels like. I'm tempted to just run this miserable pile of memes.

>(Naaresh 1) Master Ascetic Naaresh [+32]
- Archidon [10]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Cyclops Savage [7]
- Cyclops Savage [7]
- Molik Karn [19]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Tyrant Zaadesh [4]
- Titan Gladiator [15]

>>51933122
Cryx player here. Short version is that, while not gutted, Cryx is nowhere near being the bogeyman faction it was in early Mk2. Some of the whining is legitimate, but there's also a lot of BS from people who are just butthurt about not being top faction anymore. To your questions:

> Battle Box quality
Really good, probably one of my favorite battleboxes from any faction (along with the Circle one). The new caster is very beginner friendly but also strong enough to stay interesting. And our jacks are actually useful now. Having two heavies in the box makes it a lot of fun against other bboxes.

> Fun to play
It's down to your taste, but I enjoy Cryx a lot. They're truly the glass cannon faction now, but still hit harder across the board than just about anything. If the style appeals to you, I think you can have a lot of fun with it.

> Fun to play against
Cryx can still be a little tilting, being an infantry heavy faction in a meta that doesn't really build for that currently. But nobody's going to accuse you of cheating anymore... if anything we're an underdog.

> Internal balance
Mixed. The balance is pretty good for jacks, lots of interesting decisions there. We have lots of strong casters as always. Unit choices are dominated by Satyxis Raiders currently, and the most popular caster is probably Coven. Our biggest issue right now is gunlines (always has been, in some sense), so things that handle that are popular. How important that is to you personally depends a lot on your regular opponents.

>>51933167
>So I played Skorne against Baldur2 today, and seriously what the fuck how am I meant to beat that?
You have options. I know from experience that a Xerxis1 brick can grind him out, although it's definitely a bit of a shoving match. Our other attritiony casters like Makeda1 and Naaresh can probably overwhelm his defensive tech and drag him down too, but I haven't tested it.

Other route you can go is take one of the Mortality casters and bring those wolves down to earth. Morg2 is also capable of getting a kill piece onto Baldur... he's usually the weakest link in his own list.

>>51933167
Might be worth looking at Zaal1 as well. Most skorne models under Last Stand will tear a 14/20 warpwolf to pieces, and coming out ahead on points against warpwolves is not hard.

>>51934256
>I know from experience that a Xerxis1 brick can grind him out
Funny you should say that because I was playing Xerxis1 in the first game against him, and realised immediately that it was a HORRIFYING matchup. Woldwyrds get an extra dice on attack and damage against anything with an upkeep, so Cetrati can never receive Defender's Ward. And if you can't even put a strong brick spell on your brick unit, what's the point? +2ARM isn't worth taking an extra dice of damage and paying for the privilege. He went first, ran Woldwyds in front of my Cetrati, and proceeded to laugh them off the table turn 2. I also suffered from the problem of bringing anti-infantry tech against someone who didn't bring any infantry. It was like playing against Amon; half of my shit is useless, and the other half can't get enough work done.

>>51934314

Zaal1 does have game against him, but it's a game. Basically you are trading up incrementally, with the constant danger of a big swing of value suddenly occurring against you because of Circle Threat Weirdness, which will put you firmly on the back foot for the rest of the match.

On the bright side who gives a shit when your screening infantry dies en masse- just means more fully boosted heavy contacts come feat turn.

>>51934525
>Who gives a shit when 20 point of your models are trivially wiped off the table

>>51934630
>Karax cost 20p

>>51934630

Zaal1, if he's getting multiple warbeast-on-warbeast contacts the turn after.

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Mauler is pretty much done, just need to wash the hair, nails, and stones
This was fun to paint

>>51934671
>Baldur just puts a wall down so my heavies can't reach his
>Now you have no screen and didn't kill any heavies

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>>51934702
And another shot

>>51934704
then git gud

>>51934374
That's interesting. How many woldwyrds was he running? I agree they can definitely be a problem and you should hold Def Ward until you deal with them. I've faced them in a Wurmwood list and got caught off guard before.

I'm assuming he's not putting Roots on them outside of feat turn? One saving grace with Woldwyrds is they're fairly squishy. They can go down to even low POW shooting.

>>51934759
>One saving grace with Woldwyrds is they're fairly squishy
They're no squishier than any other light at 13/16. He was running two of them and two Sentry Stones. Not even my heavies are safe from those dickbags. Putting my own shooting light against a Woldwyrd is embarassing. RAT6? ROF3? POW12? Strong animus? Strong abilities? Meanwhile for the same points I get ROF1, POW12, RAT5.

>>51933482
It's pretty much just them pulling a GW and trying to get some damage control on the negativity surrounding some aspects of the product.

>>51934525
It's like that for both players. Baldur can lose a ton of stuff to Last Stand if he makes a mistake. A single swordsman can almost one-shot a rooted warpwolf under power swell and last stand, as a for instance... and the whole unit costs less than the beast.

The big point swing tends to work more for you than against, because Baldur typically has his points concentrated in a few expensive pieces, whereas Zaal prefers hordes and hordes of crappy models.

>>51935113
>A single swordsman can almost one-shot a rooted warpwolf under power swell and last stand
This is factually incorrect. Jesus fuck you're not even close what the FUCK are you smoking? Assuming you hit, it's either PS12+4d6 so 6 damage on average, or 2xPS9+4d6 for 6 damage again.

>>51935153
Hang on Last Stand is additional. Christ even then it's like 9.5 damage per model. It's fine but the aforementioned Woldwyrd will have no problem picking off that UA.

>>51934913
>They're no squishier than any other light at 13/16.
Which is fairly squishy. What's your point? We all know the Raider sucks - comparing that piece of garbage to a beast that's actually decent is pointless.

You can absolutely shoot down Woldwyrds if Baldur doesn't root them. A canoneer will reliably knock off about half its boxes. Either of our main shooting units can drop one a turn (although incindiarii rely on fire to finish it off on average rolls). Even the stupid slingers can kill one, thanks to erosion.

>>51935288
>Either of our main shooting units can drop one a turn (although incindiarii rely on fire to finish it off on average rolls).
On average rolls a full unit of Incindiarii will deal like 12 damage to a Woldwyrd, then the fire will deal another 3 if it doesn't fall off. Don't forget you need to hit, and Skorne can't hit.

>>51935203

And pathfinder on the charge. But yeah, protecting that UA looks like a chore. And remember if you are upkeeping Last Stand (sans mk2 Spell Slave Marketh, you pretty much have to be- either that or play Zaal1 forward, which is risky) Woldwyrds get turned up to 11.

>>51935153
I said "can", not "on average". There's a big difference between max dice and average dice, especially since a swordsman under last stand is one of the few models that can get to five dice damage.

The potential top end is (PS 9 + 5 x 6 - ARM 20) for the first attack, plus (PS 9 + 4 x 6 - ARM 20) for the second = 32 damage. That's enough to kill a feral. No, that won't usually happen, but the fact that it CAN is something the baldur player has to account for.

Of course average damage is lower, but you might want to double check your math there too. PS12 + 4d6 vs ARM 20 is not 6 average damage. That's the old "2d6 - 7 = 0" tricking you. By my math it takes about 2.5 swordsmen with last stand and power swell to kill a rooted wolf on average rolls, and they don't need to charge to do it.

>>51935496
Oh right so all of my problems fade away if I calculate damage based on boxcars.

>>51935496
>That's the old "2d6 - 7 = 0" tricking you
No but seriously the average roll on a single d6 is 3.5. I'm being rused so hard right now and I don't give a fuck.

>>51935496

My mental-napkin math with squishy unquantifiable gamestate offsets tells me 3 Swordsmen on powerswell-Last Stand average, you'll want 4 or seriously good on-demand cleanup (Archidon?) for comfort.

>>51935512
>>51935529
Do you guys seriously not know this stuff? Because if not, the first time you see weaponmaster infantry in action, your jaw is going to be on the floor. Yes, the average roll on a d6 is 3.5. That does NOT mean the average damage Dice x 3.5 + POW - ARM, because dice don't work like that. Dice spikes shift the average upward, and the impact becomes more dramatic the more dice you add.

"2d6 - 7 = 0" is the classic example, because it's so obviously wrong, even if you're not a math person. A 2d6 can roll any of 36 possibilities, 15 of which are an 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12. All of those will do more than 0 damage at -7, so the average cannot be 0.

>>51933329
What is he primalling that causes you to lose a heavy? what beasts are you using?

>>51935616
>squishy unquantifiable gamestate offsets
It's definitely a valid consideration. Actual board state trumps theorymachine every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. For me, anyhow, not everybody has time to play on Sunday.

Only point I was trying to make is that Swordsmen under Last Stand are fuckin terrifying, even for Baldur2.

also cetratrii in shield wall with a krea behind them take very little dmg from wold wryds. they're dice minus 10 unless he wraith banes it. and even then dice minus 8. sure he could boost 2 of them but you should have shield guards. what was your xerxis list?

>>51935959
I think that Anon's point was he cast Def Ward on the cetrati and got blasted for it.

It's also pretty tough to find room for a Krea in a Xerxis1 list. A lot of players take the "ARM 22 is good enough" point of view and go without.

ded game

How many years has it been and people still don't know dice math

2d6-7 doesn't equal 0 because you can't go negative. On a multi wound model, 2d6-7 can expect to see 1 damage on average because dice can spike above 1 but can't go below 0. If it's single wound then any given 2d6-7 roll is a 42% kill chance, not a 0%. Average dice math is not that hard.

>>51936038

It helps if you visualize it as a graph. Basically, take Normal curve. Cut it and half and disappear what you cut. Take that "cliff" and smooth it out over the initial range.

Not quite that, but it's a useful lie that gets across the fundamental point.

>>51936038
Funny example I heard the other week was somebody explain Typhon's animus as "It makes dice - 7 equal 0". That's not perfectly accurate, but it definitely makes you think about it.

>>51935981
No it's that I couldn't put Def Ward on them, which defeats the entire point of bringing Xerxis1.

>>51934702
>>51934735
Nothing better than painting musculature

Fresh journeyman league starting up at my LGS this weekend. And Helynna buildup pointers?
I was thinking of adding an Aspis or Gorgon week 2.

>>51936220
So don't put def. ward on them and get blown away? they're more survivable in that case if they don't have it on them. cetratii seem to actually be a good counter to woldwryds/sentry stones.

I run both circle and skorne for reference btw. Even un DW'D the only thing they have to be afraid of is the pureblood. but unless they're running a few specific casters if they spray you they're dead next turn

>>51934702
>>51934735
It looks nice from what I can tell. Better pictures would help. You can make a cheap easy lightbox by cutting the top of a milk jug off and turning it on its side, then put in something for a backdrop and surround it with lights.

>>51935981
Really? all my xerxis1 lists have kreas in them. If I'm spending that many points on cetratii I'm def. gonna put the support in there to make them a death star

>>51937029
Against the Woldwyrd it's obviously beneficial to have a Krea (as long as you don't expose it), but against many lists the 13/22 is enough to deliver the Cetrati and the Krea is overkill. The agonizer is an auto-include, but I think the Krea is optional.

Guessing the Anon fighting baldur didn't bring Krea in his list because he was losing Cetrati to woldwyrds.

When is the xryx forces of book coming out?

>>51934972

I really think it's a Bubble thing, which dovetails into an "Internet Toxicity is the Great Enemy of Our Times" mindset. They just aren't big enough to freely shake off elements of an online fanbase.

>>51937701
*cryx

Time to start assembling 20 Karax, 10 Swordsmen, 10 Commandos, 2 Karax AD, one Helga, and 2 Desert Hydra

>>51933921
>and the most popular caster is probably Coven. Our biggest issue right now is gunlines
How can you write this within a few inches of another? Doesn't Coven shut down gunlines long enough to deliver the Satyxis package?

Holy shit, PP is axing the official forums.

No more faction communities, everyone in there is asked to fuck off to facebook.

I'm thinking about faction swapping from Trolls to another faction. I love playing this game, but trying to get all of the models of a full faction just doesn't work with my college kid budget.

I've always liked the appearance of the mercs, minions, and Convergence, so I'm wondering which one people think is the most fun of those.

>>51938395
That's just dumb

>>51938165
>How can you write this within a few inches of another? Doesn't Coven shut down gunlines long enough to deliver the Satyxis package?
Was attempting to explain WHY coven and satyxis (and other things) are popular, which is very much a function of the meta. Cryx has a ton of strong casters, but few of them answer gunlines as well as coven does. So you see the them in a lot of pairings.

>>51938395
>No bonuses
>pay freeze
>got rid of 5 staff members recently
>cubicles condensed and crammed
>Can't handle the negative feedback
>inb4 "where's the proof" guy

Seriously, sell your models before nobody wants them

>>51938395

Except that isn't happening...

I haven't played in years, does every single game still get decided by assassination?

>>51939253
Only if you decide to play without scenarios, and you really should play with scenarios

>>51939322
If you play with scenarios, then the game ends when one player is about to win and then the other does a banzai suicide charge for death or glory

And then one of the casters dies in assassination

>>51939364
And there's something wrong with that?

>>51939364
... Which also means you win on scenario.

It's very possible (and common as well) that games end without either caster ever getting within 20" of one another.

The upcoming Steamroller 2017 is actually improving Assassination as a wincon, simply because pure assassination lists would lose on scenario before they get into position.

>>51939364
That does happen a lot, yes, but forcing the oppenent to make that hail mary is a very powerful tool. Plus it's a lot more interesting and makes for much more diverse games than both players having a set routine to deliver their specific brand of assassination to the exclusion of everything else.

I just purged my phone of everything relating to be WHAC, and even after reinstalling still the app doesn't have anything after the errata and is full of awful grammar.

So what I'm seeing here is that assassination is still the go-to win method? And that it is still a win method.

WHELP, time to sell my Khador army.

>>51939787
Good riddance. Fuck off, scrub.

>>51939817
Sorry, but shit gets boring when every game ends the same exact way.

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>>51939787
Good riddance

>>51939787
It still happens a lot. It's more often forced by scenario play or attrition than straight up "I'm going to gun for your caster and nothing else from the start of the game".

>>51939945
>>51939945
Well that's an improvement at least, but I always found assassination to be the game's biggest weakness. It just always seemed to suck the fun out of having an entire army go to battle.

>>51939971
Couldn't disagree more. I think the game would be a lot more boring without having the option to assassinate. Scenarios can often bog down in certain matchups - it's nice that there's an alternative. Plus, while attrition and scenario lists are usually stronger, it adds some variety that you CAN build for caster kill, if you want.

Of course, the flip side is that your opponent might bring one of the casters that is borderline impossible to assassinate, in which case your "pure" assassination list is probably sunk.

You don't see that many "gotcha" assassinations once you get past a certain level of play, but the THREAT of assassination becomes a powerful tool for controlling the flow of the game. Most actual assassination victories are of the type described by >>51939364, where one player has clearly won the scenario, and the other goes for a hail mary shot to try and save it. Which either works, or far more often, leaves their caster swinging in the breeze to get counter-assassinated.

I played my first game tonight with the Protectorate against Legion starter boxes. It was a close match and came down to my warcaster against his warlock.

It was a shit ton of fun so I'm excited to go back next week.

Any tips for just starting out? I know that's a broad as fuck question, but is there anything you know now that you wish you did when you started?

>>51939971
A couple years ago, our group tried playing a no-assassination variant. I believe it was Steamroller 2015, we experimented with the game not ending on caster kill, but awarding 1 or 2 scenario points instead. Honestly, it was anti-climactic. Unless your caster also got killed as part of the assassination, destroying a caster and by extension their battlegroup was too big a hit for the opponent to come back from. The rest of the scenario usually just ended up being cleanup.

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>>51939971
You could always keep playing *after* an assassination if your opponent agrees to it. Forcing scenarios would mean nothing but extreme control or attrition lists though, same as playing without them means nothing but assassination focus.

>>51940225
Another good point. Personally I have a hard time imagining playing 40k again when it felt like most games were decided in the first couple turns, but you had no real way of turning things around.

>>51940258
I'd say don't be afraid to start out slow, play plenty of games with just your battlebox or slightly more to really get the feel of positioning and the finer points of the rules before investing in a ton of stuff you don't know what to do with yet.

More specifically you're gonna want to get a unit of Choir, they really pump your jacks to 11

>>51940258
Only a couple - don't go crazy buying tons of shit up front, take your time and build your army slowly. Add stuff as you need it, and let your army grow with your skill.

AND, just play a lot. Play a fucking ton of battlebox games. Then move up to 25 points, play play play some more. Then move to 50, etc. Don't worry about internet opinions, just play shit and judge for yourself. If it's expensive and in doubt, proxy it.

>>51940372
Thanks for the tips.

I bought the choir today actually before I left the shop. A couple guys there recommended it's a good unit to have and is really versatile. I also picked up High Executioner Reznik. I really didn't like playing Malekus. He had some really useful spells that were great to channel, but I would have liked to support my warjacks some more.

I'll play around with him some more. Maybe I'll warm up to him, but I really hate his model too.

>>51940388
Yeah, thanks. Playing more will go a long way in deciding what to buy next. I did just get a pretty decent bonus from work, so the temptation to drop some fucking cash is there, but I really just want to start slow and ease into an army instead of grab everything and not know what the fuck to do with it all.

How should I deal with storm lances in khador?

There's a Storm Division player here. He doesn't go double lances though, he actually goes lances + stormblades. Not as bad as a full broken tryhard list but still annoying to deal with.

Something he used recently:

http://conflictchamber.com/#b11b_-0efNak9H9H9Ha5a6adaj9cao

Cygnar Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Storm Division

(Maddox 1) Major Beth Maddox [+30]
- Squire [0]
- Stormclad [18]
- Stormclad [18]
- Stormclad [18]
Stormblade Infantry [10]
- Stormblade Infantry Officer & Standard [5]
Storm Lances (max) [20]
Journeyman Warcaster [0]
- Firefly [8]
Major Katherine Laddermore [8]

>>51938543
go mercs or minions so you have the option of building into another faction later

>>51940733
Vlad1 and all the rockets

>>51941239
I only own 3 rockets and I'm not going to invest in a spam list when mk3 has been very volatile for spam lists

>>51941257
Have fun getting your shit pushed in then? Rockets kill lances ded. I guess your best bet against blades is Widowmakers but those will get electro leaped to death pretty quick

>>51941286
>>51941257
I actually double checked for you and the PP store has three rockets for $22, you could probably find better deals if you take a second to look around the Internet.

http://store.privateerpress.com/winter-guard-rocketeer-three-pack

Even if you buy brand new from PP the cost is basically nothing for this game

>>51941420
Yes, but you also need extra units of WGI or WGRC to field the rockets with. I have one of each.

>>51941440
OK, and? You already have enough dudes for three min units. Come on anon, this shit isn't hard to figure out.

>>51939183

That's exactly what's happening, faction forums are going away.

Another fucking idiotic move by PP. Well done lads, I'm not sure you guys can fuck up MK3 and make people jump games anymore than you have.

>>51941503
Good riddance. All the salt and bitching got old a long time ago

>>51941500
Sure, if you're playing at some scrub tournament that lets you throw together random winter guard models without a leader model and mixed from two different units into a min unit.

How do you tell if they're supposed to be WGRC or WGI without a leader from either unit and the models mixed?

>>51941540
You're trolling at this point right? It's not hard to convert up some extra dudes for your units or just order the bits you need off the store/ebay/whatever.

How much handholding do you need? Figure this shit out

>>51941618
I'm not going to chop up my existing units because some shithead on the internet told me so. And a vlad "all the rockets" list uses 4 min units, maybe 5.

>>51940620
>Yeah, thanks. Playing more will go a long way in deciding what to buy next. I did just get a pretty decent bonus from work, so the temptation to drop some fucking cash is there, but I really just want to start slow and ease into an army instead of grab everything and not know what the fuck to do with it all.
Honestly, I think that's the move, even if you have the dough. You buy too much and you may not even get some of it on the table. I've got some models that have been in boxes in my back closet gone unassembled for years because I bought in to an army I didn't end up really liking.

I find I lose motivation to build and paint too, if I have too much of a backlog.

>>51941678
You really only need three units, which you have enough models to at least proxy. If you refuse to do that you can bits order the parts you need to make the extra guys you need.

But if you aren't willing to even try or proxy up some dudes why even bother asking for advice? Fuck off and have fun getting crushed by lances. We can't help you if you refuse to be helped or even pick up some extra models to not lose.

>>51941728
>>51941678
Here, I'll hold your hand again. It took zero effort

http://store.privateerpress.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Winter+guard+rifle+corps

>>51941678
>I'm not going to chop up my existing units because some shithead on the internet told me so. And a vlad "all the rockets" list uses 4 min units, maybe 5.
It's not like there's some sort of rocket theme list and the only models you're allowed to take are rockets. Rockets are good with S&P, is all people are saying. Guess what? So is damn near everything else. Get yourself one more pack of rocketeers, field max rockets with each of the two WG units you have, and fill in the rest of the list to taste. Even "just" six rocketeers will rip up a stormlance unit. And nothing says they have to be your only guns.

If you're not in the mood to run Vlad, a pretty similar list can be constructed for pButcher as well.

While on the subject of storm lances, how should I deal with them with Skorne? Swordsmen seem like they could do some damage but are vastly out threatened and are trivially killed with leaps.

>>51942129
Venators are pretty dope

>>51942165
I'm not sure they can do enough damage to be relevant unless stacking the full rasheth debuff train though. It takes a big enough CRA to down them that you can only kill one a turn.

>>51942204
You get a POW17 out of a 5 man CRA, and a 18 out of a 6 man.

That's -2 and -1 respectively, enough to reliably kill two a turn.

And with the minifeat and reform, you can keep yourself safe from them killing you back.

>>51942265
That's -3 and -2 actually.

>>51942283
Are they 16 or 17 base?

>>51942295
13/17, +3 for arcane shield.

>>51924837

>Cuz the only thing people run are flyers

So you haven't played since 4th? You need an update if your going to throw around catch phrases like these.

>>51942340
Weren't Flyers 6th?

>>51926321

The difference is this. Warhammer, is created by a miniature model company, that makes rules for their models. Warmahordes is a game that Privateer Press has made models for.

See the difference?

>>51942340
I don't remember flyers even existing in 4th outside of Apocalypse.

Pretty sure it was 5th or 6th where they became the thing.

>>51942303
Yea.

Honestly, the thing you can absolutely do is minifeat to pop Laddermore, but generally you can still kill two units. the Dakar will super help the numbers on this bit as well.

>>51924837
>>51942340
Isn't the name of the game monstrous creatures/gigantic walkers now?

>>51942340
>So you haven't played since 4th?
>Flyers
>4th edition

You know how I know you're full of shit?

>>51942383
I guess? I've mainly seen Laddermore having LOS blocked by storm lances in front of her unless she can shoot something without chance of retaliation.

I dunno, I was hoping for people having success with electric immune archidons that can get up in their faces and beat on them, but I guess venators work. Venators just don't feel safe to me though. Even if you get the shot up to dice-2 that doesn't guarantee a 5 damage hit, they'll still live through it about half the time. You can't afford to only kill one storm lance a turn.

>>51939253
I don't remember that ever being the case, so you must have not played for quite some time.

>>51940733
Shoot them dead until they die to death.

>>51941257
One unit is enough if you use them right.

>>51939253
Assassination is so unfavored as a win condition in competitive environments right now they're changing the way the game plays to more heavily favor going for it.

>>51942129
Archidons, Reivers, Karax, Ferox fuck them up good, all in their unique ways.

>>51942444
Trying to use Archie's lightning immunity to beat Lances is a gimmick and probably not worth worrying about. What you absolutely can do is take advantage of his high native speed to get to them in melee, however. Rush puts him at equal charge range to a Lance, and any other buff puts him over (with the ability to sprint back, as well).

Quality shooting is probably the way to go, though. You really don't need to be able to one round the whole unit of Lances - their big offensive strength comes from the sheer number of attack rolls they can make. Knock out 2 or 3 of them (including Katie, if you can manage it) and the offensive threat of the lances is significantly reduced.

If I'm playing Makeda1, which has been my go-to lately against Cygnar (and anybody else with a serious gunline), I'd seriously consider trading Karn for the unit of Lances. He can use Lash and/or Quicken and/or Rush to out threat them. Quickened ferox can potentially alpha them as well.

Okay, a word of advice to everyone struggling with Storm Lances: You can't stop them from hurting you. Once you accept that fact you can think about how to mitigating them and making trades unfavorable for them.

Give me your memiest khador lists.


Also >tfw old witch will never be good

>>51943732
Old Witch is okay, just not as good as the other Khador casters but better than a lot of other factions "worst".

>>51928180
Nice regulation paint scheme.

Why everybody seems to complain about trollkin highwaymen? They can drop 10 RAT7 POW12 or 2 RAT15 POW 20 shots and snipe can offsets their short range. And even without snipe they are more resilient than most shooting units (especially under stone and chronicler) and can go in close for backstabs with Braylen.

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>Want to play Khador
>Want to field a bunch of jacks

>>51944639
Why not? Pick up Harkevich and play all the Jacks you like.

>>51944099
Old witch is always OK desu.
Not terribly bad.
Not terribly great.
She is kinda there.

>>51944639
Harkevich, Karchev Butcher 1 are all viable choices for jack heavy lists.
Zerkova2 and Malakov2 may also be.
All in all most Khador caster can somewhat run 3 jacks.

>>51945498
How is butcher1 a good jack caster?

>>51945846
Fullthrottle and feat does bad things to enemies.
Problem is reaching them since he has no speed buffs.
I dont know take him in theme with some weapon crews and min rockets to get cheap juggernauts/kodiaks up the table faster?

>>51943172
>Okay, a word of advice to everyone struggling with Storm Lances: You can't stop them from hurting you. Once you accept that fact you can think about how to mitigating them and making trades unfavorable for them.
Generally true. A few lists can out threat them, but most will have to take it on the chin. Something to keep in mind is full Lances + Katie is 28 points. They're strong, but there's a lot of eggs in that basket.

>>51945846
>How is butcher1 a good jack caster?
Butcher1 is sorta a good-for-everything caster. I think of him as filling the Denny1 niche in Khador (although that argument could also be made for Vlad1). He makes every wimpy model you can field into a potential heavy killer.

To me personally, the move with him is a mixed list of jacks and infantry. But you can absolutely bring 3+ jacks with him if you want thanks to full throttle (with two jacks you'll rarely use that spell).

>>51945498
Malakov 2 is pretty good, but you'll want a dragoon or two for Sucker! as well as jacks that don't need a whole lot of focus. A couple juggernauts, a devastator, a destroyer to babysit him with escort, a kodiak, two marauders and two dragoons makes a decent list.

>>51946031
Junior and a firefly makes 12 more points.

>>51943732
>Give me your memiest khador lists
Sorscha2, Malakov + Behemoth aka one punch man.

Strakhov, Behemoth, Grolar and let your opponent figure out for the next half an hour how to not get overrun-assassinated.

Irusk2, WGRC, Fangs, Doomies, Ragman, moar banes Khador-style. Add Alexia1 for maximum overmeme.

>>51946148
True, but those two aren't committed with the Lances. He can just rotate AS to something else, and the Firefly is maybe off doing something else... I wouldn't include those two in your trade math (although obviously if you can take away the firefly without giving too much, you should).

>>51946129
Vlad tier and use is "i cast polish the turd and portents"

>>51946151
>that irusk2
>heavy sweating.png

I should not be erect.
But i am

>>51946389
>polish the turd and portent
>not "Grease and Polish"

>>51946296
Ys it's synergistic more than dead support, but it's still a cost factor that's assumed as part of storm Lance survivability. At least that seems to be the consesus/peception. What I don't think a lot of people realize is that by the time they've brought those pieces the Cygnar player is 40 points in, but most folks just say storm lances op and wonder when nerfs are coming

I think the Cyclops Brute is quite good.

>>51946566
He's a cool dude, the animus is really nice for the morghouls/squishy dudes.

A little bit of a tough sell for the others with bokurs working for Skorne now.

>>51946592
>the animus is really nice for the morghouls
They don't need it anymore. I would play a couple of the Brutes with Mak3, but mak3 is so boring right now compared to all the other casters in SKorne.

>>51946592
>>51946616
I just like it because it's a surprisingly good tarpit light. If you just plan on cutting for a couple fury so you can't overheat, Intuition will make him very annoying. 13/18 might just be better than a Sentry's 10/21 considering Intuition.

>>51946643
I want to run Mak3 with 3-4 of them and Wrongeye behind them. They can tank for days and Makeda gets to kill whatever comes in together with Maybe Tiberion.

But fuck buying those models with my painting backlog.

>>51946663
>(Makeda 3) Makeda & the Exalted Court [+24]
- the Exalted Court
- Molik Karn [19]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]

Here's what I'm doing with her. I can't justify owning Wrongeye and Snapjaw in a faction where our workhorse heavies are DEF10.

>>51946681
That's why I want to run lights with her:

http://conflictchamber.com/#b91bcM4y4y5G6VbFea4y4y5V2N
Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points

(Makeda 3) Makeda & the Exalted Court [+24]
- the Exalted Court
- Cyclops Brute [undefined]
- Cyclops Brute [undefined]
- Titan Gladiator [undefined]
- Tiberion [undefined]
Wrong Eye [undefined]
- Snapjaw
Tyrant Zaadesh [undefined]
- Cyclops Brute [undefined]
- Cyclops Brute [undefined]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [undefined]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [undefined]

But I'll be the first to admit that this is some janky shit.

>>51944589
They are the only infantry I field that isn't the Krielstone. I think one of the big things is their range, which you already mentioned, and I play them with Gunny so it isn't an issue for me.

Their other issue is that they don't have a place in either of the Troll's theme lists, and people seem to play in theme more than out of it, especially with all of the free stuff you can get when you just play a bunch of beasts in Power of Dhunia.

It is the same general issue that most of the Troll's infantry has. We have a theme for our elite infantry, but it just isn't as good as going mostly beasts in Power of Dhunia.

In a different meta, Trolls would be a lot better than they are now. Great infantry in a meta where people don't use it.

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So I just finished my Lancer. Will dump some pictures. Also after seeing so many people complaining about storm lancers, I decided to not use them because it might not be fun to play using them against some friends, I will get them after they are nerfed and make a cavalry list using Striker3 só I can have the feeling of lightning strike troops.

>>51946706
Can't help but feel that Brute + Savage is always better than double Brute with Zaadesh. The extra point lets you bring a Gobber Chef to help with your glaring fury issues too.

File: Where will I go.jpg (158KB, 809x801px) Image search: [Google]

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So I've made this list, I think its more the Maddox feeling. Go on foot shoulder by shoulder with all her troops. While lightining and blood gives color to the battlefield.

Theme: Storm Division
2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army


Major Beth Maddox - WJ: +30
- Squire - PC: 0
- Brickhouse - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
- Stormclad - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)

Stormblade Captain - PC: 0
Journeyman Warcaster - PC: 4
- Firefly - PC: 8

Stormblade Infantry - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
- Stormblade Infantry Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 5
- Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner - PC: 2
- Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner - PC: 2
- Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner - PC: 2
Stormblade Infantry - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
- Stormblade Infantry Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 5
- Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner - PC: 2
- Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner - PC: 2
- Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner - PC: 2
Stormguard Infantry - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15


THEME: Storm Division

>>51946148
Jr is free. The firefly is a solid light jack and you don't even need ionization to get the most out of storm lances, unless you're trying to eleap a caster the extra pow is rarely needed.

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I've also made a Haley2 list. I used to be a MTG player. And when I met Haley I had this feeling I was playing a blue deck on its glorious days. So I put this list together, I don't even know if it works but I love the idea of controling the opponent movement while these 2 Colossus brings a rain of thunder. Thorn is pretty cool too.

Theme: Heavy Metal
3 / 4 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army


Major Victoria Haley - WJ: +25
- Squire - PC: 0
- Hurricane - PC: 39 (Battlegroup Points Used: 25)
- Hurricane - PC: 39
- Thorn - PC: 13

Captain Arlan Strangewayes - PC: 0
Journeyman Warcaster - PC: 0
- Charger - PC: 9


THEME: Heavy Metal

>>51946742
Oh yeah, that's worth a look, and I already have a bunch of Savages. I don't think I'll have fury issues though and a Brute frenzying is not that big a deal.

File: Where will I be.jpg (99KB, 710x540px) Image search: [Google]

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So If you guys have any suggestions about, the painting or about the lists be sure to tell me. Also I play casually so there is no need to optimize everything, just tell me if you know of anything fun.

>>51946516
Literally every cygnar list is bringing a journeyman anyway. This isn't some unique thing that the storm lances require. And with storm division they only have to pay for the jack.

Lances don't even need laddermore 90% of the time. Pow 15 charges kill anything less than Khador heavies. You only need to start upping their ranged damage if trying to crack really hard stuff.

People keep quoting storm lance support costs when they are still amazing without the support, especially if run with a caster that has AS or dauntless resolve already. Someone here was taking lances with stryker 1 and that's a huge fucking headache.

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>>51946738
>>51946750
>>51946783
>>51946799

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>>51946738
I can respect considering your opponents, but if you want some Storm Lances go ahead and get some. They're a bitch, but without all the support and such they're not as ball busting.

That said, depending on how much they get nerfed you might be able to get some dirt cheap after these idiots who jump on whatever the spam is popular this week get pissed.

>>51946799
Nice white on the jacks. Think you've got room for another free solo here >>51946783 though

Which faction has the worst internal balance?

I'm a legion player, and it's some shit hearing people talk about all the different infantry they can make work very easily in their faction, while I've got swordsman and...um...grot raiders for just screening

>>51946859
The problem is that Heavy Metal list says I get a free solo, after 25 points. I believe that the War Room 2 has a bug on Heavy Metal theme, but I don't know for sure.
Also that's a cool tip, I will keep an eye on ebay for lancers.

>>51946861
Have you tried your others? I played against makeda 1 running 2 full units of arcuarii and the legends and it was actually pretty sick. I took a glance at the archers and some of the others and I raised an eyebrow once or twice.

In terms of worst internal I would definitely say Cygnar. The perception is that only 10% of the faction is usable. The internet community had been autistic before, though.

>>51946516
That JR costs points is a factor you need to consider as the Cygnar player, for sure. My point was, as the opposing player, you shouldn't count junior when considering what you're willing to trade for Lances. Because that support isn't tied to them specifically.

>>51941257
This. I thought about getting an additional 2 squads with rockets, but I might end up wasting 160 dollars when the next errata drops.

>>51946799
Cygnar has a lot of really fun casters. My personal favorites are probably Stryker2, Kraye, Haley2, Nemo1 and Darius. I really like casters that are toolboxy and/or mobile, and give the player a lot of options for how to approach any given game.

>>51943732
>>51944099
>>51944960
Old Witch has shitty Warjack support, due to her amazing Field marshall being hampered by laughably low Warjack points, doesn't have any way of fixing MAT/RAT or damage for your army, an Arc-node without anything worthwile to arc through, victim stats and her Feat is useless against Jackmachine.

What Old Witch does have however, is a really sick Assassination run (after teleporting into the backarc of the enemy caster; 7 Attacks at MAT 10 POW 15 is hilarious) and she does counter stuff like Sentinel spam or other infantry armies reasonably well.

Old Witch is my main and favorite caster, but she is just so bad that in order to compete with anything, I have to use the good casters instead.

>>51946681
>I can't justify owning Wrongeye and Snapjaw in a faction where our workhorse heavies are DEF10.
I'm in the same camp. It's not really the DEF 10 though, so much as the Agonizer being a thing. Any Skorne model that plans on taking charges probably wants an Aggy before they even consider WE+SJ.

That's not to say they don't have a place. Guy I know was dojoing putting WE+SJ behind a def warded ferox unit in Xerxis1... expensive package, but they're running a promotion right now where it comes with a free chalice to collect the tears of your enemies, so...

How prepared are you guys for an invasion from the official forums? You know when they shut them down those retards are going to scatter to every forum they can find, including here.

>>51947124
Maybe I'm alone in this, but kinda feel like Old Witch and Zerkova1 switched places this edition. Lady Z now has good ability to deliver her army and a solid control feat, but is still very much a finesse caster. Old Witch is an awkward mess who's on the verge of people making "I won with Old Witch" forum banners.

Actually, for >>51943732, that's my memelist. Zerkova1 and FA U Doomreavers. Rolling Cloudwall of Dooooooooommmm. (If this was AOS, you'd get boosted attack rolls for screaming "doooooooom" when they charged in). Also Kayazy+UA. Don't forget them. Kayazy behind Freezing Mist are funny.

>>51947276
They're in good company with us retards.

>>51947384
Do you guys actually play AoS?

>>51946861
I think Cryx's internal synergy is p weak, much worse than it was in mk2 at least. The faction is also dreadfully boring to play now, imo

>>51947558
>Do you guys actually play AoS?
Tried it when it came out... and I think I'd rather claw out my own eyes than do it again. GW's released a lot of bad rulesets in their time (and I've played most of the ones that came out after 1990), but AOS might take the cake for squeezing the most stupid BS into the fewest number of pages for their entire history. There were free games published in white dwarf that had more thought put into them than that steaming pile.

>>51947558
I tried it once after the general's handbook came out. Its not awful but also has a lot of bookeeping that i just really dont care to put the work into (like every comand element does something different).

My feelings are still hurt from when the old world blew up too so.

if I'm running Borka1 in a 75point, what combo of the two Dire Troll bodies would I want to take? Would I go double bomber, mauler, blitzer? Should I take a combo of two different ones?

>>51947788
I think they were trying to go for an X wing style game, which is inherently simple but has a deep rabbit hole. Ya they fucked it sideways, though.

Generals handbook was an improvement in the sense they finally gave the game some structure, but it's not good, nor was it intended for, competitive play.

The unhinged rules people reference as silly nonsense were just easter eggs sprinkled here and there for a laugh on the heretofore discontinued models' rules, as a bone thrown to all the people with existing collections that they basically screwed. About 80% of the sculpts were rendered outdated instantly, but weren't strictly irrelevant for play.

Also, the warmahordes community being cunty about GW games in general turns off a LOT of people thinking about making the pivot, while you sperg about the net list of the month. So don't be cunts, I guess.

>>51947993
>So don't be cunts, I guess.
Good life advice in general. Unfortunately I think some of that is inevitable. If you look at the old Page 5 from the first Warmachine book, it makes it pretty clear that this was a game designed by-and-for disgruntled ex-GW players. Basically everything in the game's first few years was an attempt to correct whatever stupid nonsense GW was doing at the time. WMH has since grown its own identity, but obviously the core of the community is still here, and I think the game still has a certain built-in appeal to people who get sick of GW's shit.

Given the deep, shared history of "we've all been shafted by GW, together, so now we're doing this instead", I think some lingering bitterness in that direction is inevitable.

All that said, GW's past sins have little to do with my judgement of AOS. That game sucks on its own merits.

>>51947993
>I think they were trying to go for an X wing style game, which is inherently simple but has a deep rabbit hole
As to this, the problem is that designing a simple-but-deep ruleset is hard work... much harder than making overly complicated rules, and GW hasn't had good game designers in-house in years.

If you want to look at what doing the warhammer thing in a simple-but-deep way ACTUALLY looks like, I'd recommend taking Alessio's Kings of War rules for a spin. He manages to strike a nice balance between the detail of old warhammer and the simplicity of warmaster.

The other option is to follow WMH, which goes entirely the other (valid) direction - lots of meaningful complexity. Unfortunately, GW consistently opts to take a middle route with all the downsides of both approaches... simplicity that only removes depth, mixed with complexity that adds nothing but time spent.

>>51934525

Hey some guy on the Skorne forums played that match. You've got less than a /tg/ thread-lifespan to read it, though.

>>51948553

He was facing Wolds, not Wolves. And playing battlegroup-heavy without a Gladiator.

>>51948935

>And playing battlegroup-heavy without a Gladiator

Admittedly, that part seemed to work for him.

>>51947993
>Wah wah people don't like man children fucking up the store by screaming at the table because it made a model broken.

You're the cunt here mate. I've never had any trouble with a WM player but I've had shit loads of neckbeards fuck up the store for everyone.

So ive been thinking of playing warmachine for a bit, i picked up a cheap cryx all in one box awhile ago, do i need the command (which i just saw as i post a new one is coming out in apr)book or is that just extra stuff not necessary for play.

>>51949639
not necessary for play unless you like owning the hard copies of things, all the valuable information inside is available to you if you use the War Room app at some point.

>>51949694
I do like hard copies of stuff, but thats good to know

>>51946717
>great infantry
>look at dawnguard
>try not to cry

>>51949839
>Fire an AOE as the last tihng in your turn
>Misses, deviates onto Sentinels
>Kills one
>Cry a lot

>>51951354
>blast killing a senitnel
>ever

>>51951619
>Not giving your Mammoth the Sniper rule

So I was just wondering, in the stock Rasheth lists there's 2 PGMTs, but is it not better to swap one for a Willbreaker? You don't really need two PGMTs if Rasheth can Breath infantry down, and a Willbreaker can become an arc node if he really needs to, but being able to give your Karax tough just turns them into huge cunts, and Puppet Master on your Mammoth or Rasheth himself for a clutch Sunder Spirit seems way more worth than a #YOLO solo. So with that, I present this pairing:

>(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Mammoth [38]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]

>(Makeda 3) Makeda & the Exalted Court [+24]
- the Exalted Court
- Molik Karn [19]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Saxon Orrik [4]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]

Do you like them, /tg/-kun? :3c

>>51951895
I should mention that the next Steamroller at my LGS is 2 lists but you aren't forced to use both, meaning I won't have to drop Makeda3 into something she can't handle.

>>51951895
>Willbreaker seems way more worth than a #YOLO solo
The willbreaker's definitely worth considering whenever you have individual important attack rolls. I'd just point out that people don't take PGMT's with Fatty as "YOLO solos", they take them for their ability to get spells into the backfield. Offensive spells are a big part of Fatty's game and you want to make sure you can get them where needed... one PGMT might not cover it.

Other models that fill that same role though, like Void Spirits or Rhadeim, are definitely worth considering.

>>51952338
>they take them for their ability to get spells into the backfield
Oh I'm aware of that. 14" of movement with pathfinder is insane, but I have access to it with just the one so it's not TOO bad. And if Karax have tough, they might survive Rasheth channeling through them ;^)

>>51951895
imo


Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points

(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
- Mammoth [38]
- Agonizer [6]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Tyrant Rhadeim [9]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]

>>51953600
Seems a bit pointless spending so much on Rhadeim just to arc through him. If I wanted a model PURELY to arc through I'd just bring a Void Spirit. A PGMT and Willbreaker have further utility, while Rhadeim seems kinda expensive.

>>51953656
Rhadeim is way faster than a void spirit, has leap, and rhadeim's armor piercing attack will wreck the SHIT out of things with debuffs.

>>51953656
>>51953695
Biggest thing with Rhadeim is that his speed has less conditions on it, the ability to go over models, and you can arc through him more times without killing him. Doesn't hurt that he's also a powerful combat solo.

PGMT has good speed, but relies on something to hit and sprint off to go max distance. The void spirit is similar - if he has something to void walk off of, then he's arguably the most mobile of the bunch. If not, he's stuck running 12".

>>51954789
But with any of those you have to risk missing your crucial spell. The Willbreaker helps fix that ;^)

btw melee combo solos suck balls

Remember when people brought Efaarit Scouts because they were good? Heh.

>>51947384
Old Witch is okay. She's pretty good control against infantry, which just isn't something you see around a whole lot.

The worst Khador caster is by far Sorscha2.

>>51947558
God no. It's fucking awful.

>>51954958

Are Minions a real faction yet? I remember Arkadius having some janky tier list in Mk2, and that's pretty much it.

>>51955470
Minions have 1 playable unit who are really damn good. Then a bunch of casters who want infantry.

>>51955470
Arkadius gets to take Gorax in any list now, which is pretty fucking cool

>>51947276
I don't think the worst offenders will tolerate being told what fucking morons they are on a regular basis.

>>51955585
What are they gonna do? Tell a mod?

Quick and possibly stupid question here, but I saw the Protectorate book at the lgs today and picked it up on a whim. Where is the Exemplar stuff? I mean, it's the only thing missing, I think? Did they get cut?
I used to play an eKreoss theme list pretty much all the time, which makes this new book fairly worthless to me outside of Kreoss himself and Rhoven's posse.
Am I missing something? They are mentioned in the fluff and all...

>>51955613
>what will they do?
Hopefully fuck off, assuming this ever actually becomes an issue.

>>51955613
Exactly, I suspect they'll just fuck off before shitting this place up like they do the official forums without anyone to protect them.

>>51955691
They'll be central to a later book.

The way they're doing the books right now is retarded, I hope they switch back or go fully to NQ.

>>51955691
>>51955784
Yea, each of the major groups from each faction is getting a dedicated book at some point with it's own theme lists and such. This is exactly what mercs and minions need, but I'm not sure it's a great move for the major factions.

>>51955784
>>51955691
I sure hope you're all looking forward to the Cygnar book and the Trencher book. Or the Khador book and the Winterguard book. So exciting!

>>51955470
Arkadius beast-spam is suuuper fun and boosted Roadhogs are hilarious(ly powerful).

Barnabas can play a solid shooting game with his feat. And if "solid" isn't good enough, spam Ironback Spitters. Imagine Khador Destroyer spam with Kreoss1 as the caster.

>>51955869
>>51955784
Sorry, I've been out of the game for a while now, but Exemplars had like four units and as many solos when I still played. How would you even structure a book around that?
Also, and this is just a personal gripe, they could have mentioned that maybe on the back or something. "Contains all PoM units except for Exemplars".
Now I have a €32 book I don't need at all. I guess it just goes to show never to buy shit on a whim.

Painting my mammoth. How should I make the black ropes stand out?

>>51956175
Paint them brown instead.

Hey, hey! I've been playing WarmaHordes for <1 year. LOVE the Skorne. Love Corn Flakes. Love Privateer Press's new Skorne Flakes pin. BUYING IT SOMEDAY.....

just saying HELLO to everyone....anyone out there want to meet a whale? I am calling out to everyone asking this:

"does anyone want to show off their skorne models? this is the place to do it! Show me some models that will make my brain pop!"

I like looking at others models, listening to their techniques and using the techniques for myself and seeing if I like it! post soon!

:)

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>>51956656

>>51956656
What's the point
What do you get out of shitposting like this

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I need to play my lists more often. I lack practice and keep getting wrecked, because I'm so unfamiliar with the models.

>>51957073
Hard to win games if you don't know your own models, anon -- even harder if you don't know your opponents'.

>>51921580
Am I shit or is circle vs trolls a really miserable matchup? I feel like I'm bashing my head against a wall. Kaya 2 btw.

>>51957148
Fair enough.

With the Butcher list, I am still unsure how to space Butcher and how exposed I can leave him. I also don't know how reliably he can damage heavies with pull and flashing blade.
For the list itself, the Eliminators keep underperforming. Sometimes, they can tie up a unit for an entire game (nice 22 point Sentinels, Ret players) and but most always, they only have jacks or things with Electro leaps or auto-hitting AOEs to victim themselves too.

With the Irusk List, I never know what to do with the Uhlans. I heard you're supposed to use them as a wall for the rifles to hide behind, but isn't that really wasteful of a 20 point unit? I feel like almost everything in the game can out-threat a 13" charge nowadays and they actually die really fast to shooting.

>>51957209
I've only ever played kromac2 into trolls and it's fucking amazing. I offered up a stalker, he went in on it with fen blades and a mauler and kromac2 feated and just fucking killed it all. Even the children.

>>51957292
>tl;dr I have no idea WTF I'm doing but I saw this competitive list at a tournament website so I'm going to play it.

>>51958371
I am perfectly capable of playing my Sorscha1 and Kozlov lists, but if I keep play the same lists forever, I will never learn anything new.

So fuck you.

>>51958565
Sorry I only fuck AoS players, not try hards.

>>51958617
What's a try hard?

>>51958617
>Tryhardshaming
>Warmahordes
Pick one.

What if I've been wrong about the Cyclops Savage this whole time and it's a great model to take the edge off enemy heavy box counts to allow other models to finish the job safer? Guys I think I want to try them with Hexxy1 for that sweet sweet Parasite debuff. Maybe even Morghoul1 for Abuse. Oh God guys I kind of want to try giving Naaresh another try ;~;

>>51958690
Why the fuck do you think you're part of the Warmachine community when you use tumblr language? Get the fuck out and go back to Malifaux.

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I really have no experience with a Trollbloods caster that isn't Gunnbjorn. I'm really interested in trying Doomie3, so I've come up with this list.

This is, of course, based on hearing that the doomshapers really really like beasts.

>>51958371
learning starts with imitating something that works; why would wanting to learn a successful strategy be a bad thing?

What do you think about the removal of wreck markers in 3rd edition?
>>51958926
I dunno, I think that might be going a liiiiittle overboard with beasts

>>51960890
Appreciated. Now I don't have to pay an additional tax of 10 dollars fall of my 10 warjacks.

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Do many trollblood warlock make good use of spell slave?
Looking at Ragnor I don't really see much I could use it with.

>>51960959
Literally all but one of his spells are usable with spell slave

>>51946918
>>51946783
39+39+13+9=100, four free solos.
It's just Jacks in the list, not in the battlegroup.

>>51921580
New Thread!

>>51963533
>>51963533
>>51963533
>>51963533

>>51955999
It's not just the exemplars. The command books were always stated to be a 'selection' of models from the faction including some new ones.