>weapon shoots a tiny piece of metal at you that pokes a tiny

>>51919739
"Balance"

>>51919739
Because they refuse to do any research. Not even skim through fucking wikipedia.
Also I need to know what system you're talking about.

>>51919785
Not exact numbers, but it seems extremely like Star Wars Saga Edition.

>>51919739
>what is energy transfer
>what is fragmentation
>what is a wound channel

I'll give you the second part, though. Thats way too little damage if the system in question puts a small caliber gun at 6d6

>>51919739
>wut is kinetic energy?

>>51919739

There's a notion that guns "ended" swordplay and as such they're mechanically meant to represent the end of the era so they're broken?

>>51919739

Hitpoints are terrible to begin with, OP. It's like someone took a shit in the middle of your living room and you're only complaining about the flies.

>>51919739

That kind of looks like Shrek.

>>51919739

HP is an abstraction, and arrows whizzing by as the hero returns fire is pretty common in fiction.

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>>51919739
Don't you know guns are deathrays and anyone shot with a gun dies immediately

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>>51919850
Anon, I...

>>51919954
I remember watching some anime as a kid (City Hunter I think) and some dude got shot in the chest. The protagonist runs up to him and craddles him in his arms as the dude tells him important stuff before dying. I think this was the first time I ever saw someone get shot to death, and for some reason after seeing that I started believing that gun shots were only lethal if your back hits the ground.

>>51919739
What's the velocity of the wooden pole?

>>51919739
>weapon shoots a tiny piece of metal at you that pokes a tiny little hole in your body
>oh, and it also pulps a tunnel around the hole as wide as your fist
>potentially leaves a crater the size of a coffee cup on the other side, too

>>51920291
Let's figure it out!
Start insulting your local hoodlums so they shank you so you can realistically figure their damage dice out!

>>51920291
African or European Pole?

Devs confused the ability to penetrate armor and the ability to destroy tissue, though injury types mitigated this issue and there have been multiple official fixes for people that want them.

>>51919739
See, in gurps, that makes a helluva lot of sense

Seeing as most folks have about 10 HP

A lucky placement with the bullet might just graze an arm, not kill ya
And a good landing with that spear will pierce a heart or lung, maybe even headshot for a kill

What system is op playing?

>>51920303
>some guy who has no idea how guns work posting on 4chan

>>51919954
sauce?

>>51919739
>that gif
Was she disarming a mannequin?

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>>51920403
Maybe he's thinking of something like .700 NE?
It is rather tiny compared to an arrow shaft.

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>>51920438
>>51920403

>>51920512
>that hydrostatic shock myth
Wow, 1980 called they want their lies back

>>51919810
Energy transfer in bullets is negligible compared to spears, as well as the wound channel be far more devistating from a spear as well.

>>51920409
Apparently it's called Queen Emeraldas

Also, you should download the sauceNAO app for your browser, it's what I used to find out the sauce.

https://saucenao.com/tools/

Happy hunting

>>51919810
>a small caliber gun
small caliber in itself is useless info without muzzle velocity and projectile weight. But it sounds like you already knew that.

I do agree that systems that have guns and other projectile weapons do tend to overpower the guns and underpower the other weapons. Probably because game designers are just as likely as players to not understand how any of those weapons really work.

>>51920512
>HURR BLAST CAVITY
It exists for a split second and has limited long-lasting effects because we're squishy like that.

>>51919739
Because most game designers are fat nerds whacking it in their mother's basement and get their /k/ knowledge from action movies and anime.

Which is why a ballista bolt only does 3d8 damage while the average level 5 PC can have somewhere between 20-50 HP and still fight even if they're down to their last Hit Point.

>>51920512
That large cavity collapses pretty much instantly, as the bullet passes. There is some tissue damage in the stretched parts, but it is really only effective when you get projectile speeds at around 2,000fps or higher (don't quote me on the exact fps, it might be 1,500fps, but it is around there). That is when the tissue in the cavity goes from being stretched to being crushed.

>>51920731
>real-life experiments
>fps

>>51919739
>weapon shoots a tiny piece of metal at you that pokes a tiny little hole in your body
6d6 damage
exit wound is massive you are beeding out

>weapon shoots a three foot long wooden pole at you that tears through your entire body and then stays lodged in you while you are trying to fight
1d6 damage
wound is sealed can wait for medical attention

>>51919739

Jesus these character models.

I always mind fluffed hp as just getting better at avoiding damage, but that still doesn't explain how a low level healing spell could fully restore a peasant and barely effect a level 10+ adventurer.

>>51920731
Temporary cavities don't injure everything equally, however. Muscle can often survive intact, inelastic organs like the liver take lots of damage.

>>51919739
>Swing small sharp object, less than 2lb heavy
1d8+Str
>Throw a 2 ton rock that completely crushes the target to the floor
1d4+Str

>>51920762
>exit wound is massive you are beeding out
If that were true then you'd be taking bleed damage.
>wound is sealed can wait for medical attention
Have you ever been fucking stabbed? Have you ever gotten a paper cut even? wounds don't just seal themselves shut and if someone was stabbing you with a spear, they're not going to leave the spear lodged inside of your body.

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>>51919739
How about this?

>>51920805
I know the resident autist will show up eventually but before he does, HP is meat points.

You lose meat as you take damage, healing spells restore meat so you can lose meat later from subsequent blows, and as you level up, your character gains more meat so blows become less deadly as you gain more experience.

It doesn't make sense in a logical manner but within the context of gamist systems like D&D that don't try to emulate HP as wounds/injuries, it works for what it needs to be.

>inb4 buh muh CRB lists it as...
All that matters is how it's represented in play, not how it's supposedly referenced within the fluff of the book.

>>51919739
Speed factor should be increased on guns and something like 2 or 3 d6 because of the power behind a bullet.

>>51920762
>If that were true then you'd be taking bleed damage.
i assumed it was built in or something its not like op provided the system details may be a crit for all i know.

>wound is sealed can wait for medical attention
>Have you ever been fucking stabbed?
(fortunately no but it is a risk in my ocupation)

>wounds don't just seal themselves shut and if someone was stabbing you with a spear, they're not going to leave the spear lodged inside of your body.

i assumed it was a thrown weapon as the other was a projectile type so it wouldnt be withdrawn yet failed to pierce through and as others have said flesh is flexable to a certain extent and will squeeze around an inserted object slowing bleeding.

>>51920731
>>51920826

IOW, guns separate into two main categories: low-velocity and high-velocity [which in turn splits into fragmenting and not].

Low velocity pokes [crushes, technically] holes, like a rapier. High velocity [rifles with smokeless powder] punches through armor that would stop low velocities, leaves a shockwave that splinters bones, tears organs, and often pops heads open, and if fragmenting, comes apart in a tiny blizzard of shrapnel.

The difference is easily represented by modern crime statistics. 80% of people shot with a rifle die on the scene, 80% of people shot with a pistol live [and are rarely incapacitated].

>>51920754
feet not frames

>Party mage gets caught off guard
>Thief holds a knife to his throat
>Laughs at him because it only does d4 damage.

What am I supposed to do? Insta-kill the guy, or go by game rules?

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>>51920855
im not going to lie, if i got my hands on that, so many things in life would be so much more fun.

>>51919739
Technically, it's the velocity of the projectile.

But keep in mind that d20 is a piss poor system to begin with.

>>51920992
>shockwave
Holy fuck you could not possibly be more wrong

>>51920992
This. Being shot with a really high velocity projectile is pretty devastating, and only gets worse as velocity goes up. Man-portable railguns would cause absolutely horrific injuries, think of what a high-velocity rifle shot can do and then imagine that projectile going 11k ft/s or more.

And then you have theoretical shit like MARAUDER (Magnetically Accelerated Ring to Achieve Ultra-high Directed Energy and Radiation), which would use railgun principles to highly accelerate bolts of plasma. Not really relevant to the discussion, but cool as fuck.

>>51921481
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6sAUHwTP4A

So much kinetic energy that it causes an explosion with a non-explosive projectile

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>>51921370
ditto

>>51919795
Might I ask what's wrong with Saga? I was planning on running a Mass Effect game with it soon, so hearing about the shit I'm in for is good.

>>51920560
>1980
Is this a new meme? I keep seeing it everywhere.

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>>51919739
>On a long distance space expedition
>space on board is limited.
>Most of our weapons use Heat Sink 'ammo'.

>>51921524
And if we could get up to near-relativistic speeds, it gets even crazier. A 15g projectile (the size of a .45 caliber bullet) traveling at 0.25c would have 44 million megajoules of kinetic energy. That's as much energy as a 10 kiloton nuke.

>>51921584
It's always a meme anon, that's the only way humans exist now.

>>51921655
>human society is a meme
That's deep.

>>51921584
>Is this a new meme? I keep seeing it everywhere.
It might be. Hard to tell in this case though, since the idea of hydro-static shock was a big deal in the late 80's early to mid 90's.

1980 is long enough ago, that most shitposters can't comprehend it, so yeah it probably has achieved meme status as a "fuck long" time ago.

>>51921712
As someone born in the 80's, this is distressing. I should phone my congressman!

>>51920778
They're not good. Which is stupid, because for all it's flaws, character models were not a problem with me3

>>51920992
Overpenetration.

>>51919850
>tfw one of the chicks in you platoon turned to shrek whenever she applied the green base of the woodland camo paint to her face

>>51921624
Going by the shotgun animation, they've gone to straight shells for reasons

>>51921736
Add to that character customization doesn't exist in Andromeda and you have a shitty game

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>>51921741

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>Tiny-ass fucking pistol
>Packs the power and recoil of a sniper rifle
Explain this

>>51919810

Having been both shot and stabbed by a knife i will say without question that if i had to pick to be shot or stabbed again i would take getting shot in a heartbeat.

Getting stabbed sucked a hell of a lot more then getting shot. i dont even want to think about the difference a big hulking spear lodged inside you would have over a knife.

>>51921808
>MAGNETS
>HOW DO THEY WORK

>>51921808
It has the same bore as the snipers in game.

>>51921780
That's a straight up lie.

>>51920291

180-350ft/sec for crossbows.

Quarrels are not 3ft long, but broadheads will murder you and everything inside of you.

>>51921813
Ouch, man. Mugging? Combat deployment?

>>51921832
No it isn't. Enjoy your $60+DLC shrekdyke game

>>51921624
>soldier on insanity
>snipers tearing your mako apart like its made of paper
>dismount and tank anti tank missiles to the face with unity

>>51920356
Yeah but GURPS also has damage types, and guns are piercing or large piercing while bows get impaling, also pistols do like 2d6+2 so a pistol and a bow is likely to end up doing the same damage against an unarmored opponent.

>>51921927
Wait, do you mean the fact there's no classes or are you actually trying to say you can't change your characters face? Also I live in Canada, so it's actually 80

>>51921832
>That's a straight up lie.
http://gamingbolt.com/mass-effect-andromeda-will-not-have-level-cap-and-body-customization

>>51921955
>paying 80 cucknadia pesos for the shrekdyke experience

IT REALLY IS THE CURRENT YEAR

>>51921931
Fuck i meant immunity, 2 and 3 soldiers just wasn't the same without it. It was like being the terminator.

>>51921568
D20 is its biggest problem. Also that the game throws a lot of useless crunch options at you and purposefully gimps combat actions in favor of tech trees.

>>51921906

Years ago i though it would be a good idea to join up and go play with the sand people.

Thankfully neither event was very serious and i healed up just fine.

>>51921971
>Fnally, Flynn was asked if players could customize the way the body of Sara and Scott Ryder would look in addition to their faces. Flynn confirmed that body customization was not an option in Andromeda.

So exactly like the previous games?

>>51921975
Did I say I was buying it? I'm waiting for reviews. Besides, anyone who even considered the Asari when there's a female Turian romanceable is a straight up fool.

>>51921971
So you cant change the body type, just choose your face, skin tone, name, race, history, skills, and class. Got it. Clearly no character customization here.

>>51922031
>extremely easy, zero challenge
>choices that boil down to "be cunty" or "be retarded"
>romance options

It has never been more obvious that trash effect is designed for women

>>51921998
Hm. Well that's typical.

>>51922038
>class
Class is iffy. Which might actually be sort of nice

>>51921971
I think you mistook body for face, nowhere there says you can't customize your face.

>>51919739
What system are you talking about?

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>>51922054
Jesus Christ dude calm down. Did a Bioware writer molest your or something?

>>51922102
Yes, a bioware writer molested my or something.

Won't someone thing of the or somethings?

>>51922161
Well now you've just gone and made a fool of yourself.

>>51920830
Anon, the example explicitly states that the spear is left inside of you.

>>51922102
>offended by the fact that trash effect is written for the lowest tier of hambeast

I wonder what that says about you? Hmmm...

>>51922038
>face, skin tone, name, race, history, skills, and class
So nothing that hasn't been in an RPG since 2010? Even Fallout 4 lets you customize your body.

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Velocitus Eradico

And yet again /tg/ falls for a /v/ thread >>368722228

>>51922277
Post numbers are board specific, you can't cross link via number alone, you need to specify a board too.
Also we have perpetual Elder Scrolls threads and stuff. /v/ has solid foothold here.

>>51922277
What a waste of those dubs

>>51919739
God I hope this game is good. I like Bioware games. Hell, I even liked Dragon Age Inquisition. But this game looks like its falling apart before its even released.

>>51921741
BCT?

>>51922320
Didnt want to directly cross-link, I gave the board and the OP post No. For those that care go for it, but it does help prevent some backwash. There are relevant video games, and then there is /v/.

>>51922347
Well, shit.

>>51922374
>bioware
>games
pick one

You know what's funny? The same fat nerds who claim to know how historical combat works will probably be the same people who bitch about using a bow and arrow in a modern setting as if getting hit with an arrow can't fuck you up. But then again, guns are instant kill death rays according to these faggots.

>>51922461
>found the retarded archeryfag who literally considers a sharp stick to be a weapon

>>51921333

As a rogue player, I've always hated that I can't hold someone at weapon's point because that would be a 'grapple' and I'm not 'strong' enough for that sort of thing, despite taking someone by surprise.

>>51922497

Yeah because getting hit with a flying knife and then trying to pull it out and causing more damage is insignificant.

>>51920356
He's not talking about an actual system, he just wants people to join him in bitching about how nobody's as smart as them.

>>51922551
D&D fuckin' sucks

>>51922461
Well, statistically speaking, gunshot wounds are more likely to kill you than knife wounds. That's not really important though. What guns provide is convenience. A pistol and a bow are both about as lethal, and the pistol is a lot more wieldy, doesn't take up as much space, and is easier to use effectively.

Using a bow in a modern setting isn't dumb in a modern setting for issues of lethality, it's dumb for other practical reasons.

>>51921568
I've been playing in a campaign for the last few weeks, it seems... workable? It's very much just D&D in space.

>>51922691
Well, my players are D&Daboos, so if I can ween them off it using a similar enough system, I'll do that. Anything particularly bad about it?

>tears through your entire body and then stays lodged in you

Is it gone through or lodged in? You can't have both. In any case, a bow can do as much damage as a small caliber gun, but guns have a much, much easier time penetrating armor. That's what made them such a big deal. Easy to train/learn also helped a lot.

>>51922721
Starships of the Galaxy and Scum and Villainy present two entirely different modification systems, which is kind of frustrating. One of the options in the Scum and Villainy modification rules is a melee weapon modification that adds 2d6 ion damage to it, which is great, except ion damage does half-damage to droids and quarter damage to organics. This upgrade is 3000 credits. For something that's going to do, what, two damage on average?

>>51922636

well, point being, being stabbed with a knife can also still kill you and ulitmately, from a mechanical standpoint, it's not garunteed that one shot is going to kill you because you still have to roll to hit and deal damage which is an abstract thing in and of itself. It might take the whole clip to kill someone because I "miss" or they "dodge" or they were only "grazed" by my shots the same way I "miss" while swinging my sword or the blade was "dodged" or "parried" or I only managed a meager "cut"

>>51922807
That seems...bad.

>>51922817
This is fair. If you're representing it that way, then the bow should have lower dice because it's harder to hit people with it if you don't have training.

>>51921740
Rifle shots tumble inside you, it's nasty.

>>51921764
I miss how broken the first game was after you got frictionless materials. It became impossible to overheat your weapons after that.

>>51922842
it's fucking infuriating.
We're only level 2, so I don't know if combat bogs down at later levels, but it seems reasonably swift where we are. Force points can be used for a lot of fun things.
We've been posting our sessions to YouTube, if you wanna see some actual play

Should modern guns be save or die?
You can get nicked or bruised by a sword or get run through, representing the range of 1d8 damage.
But with a gun it either hits you or it doesn't, and if it hits you it's more likely to put you out of the fight than be something you can shrug off and keep fighting with.

>>51922854

The reason I bring it up involves another thing that annoys me when people talk about firearms versus other weapons where it assumes the PCs or the antagonist are all military trained individuals.

It seems to me that most discussions are made from the perspective of what's practical for a military when the PCs are hardly ever of the standard sorts.

I mean, it's not like everyone was always wearing the most protective armor and using the most damaging weapon possible. This a gamist way of thinking that doesn't work in real life because you don't go to the grocery store with a fucking sniper rifle and the highest rated ballistic vest. Also, not every encounter is going to be with a hardened trained killer who has military expereince.

Imagine if you will that you are doing some kind of street level game where you are just a bunch of dudes trying to get by in a shitty city by climbing up the ranks of the criminal enterprise. You go out to eat at some shitty chinese buffet and the next thing you know you see a car pull up to the window and some dudes unload with pistols. Or, perhpas the would be assassins are disguised as wait staff.

Are you going to sit there and tell me you went to dinner with full on swat gear and an machinegun? Pistols, saw-ed off shotguns, and PDWs I could believe but everything else is theory crafting of the sort that leads to wizards having massive advantage in a white infintiy space and all the spells and time to prepare for any situation.

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>>51922903
>impossible
Until you used HE ammo. But then your Shotgun one-shotted thresher maws..

>>51922935
Should melee weapons be save or die?
You can get grazed or flesh wounded by a gun or get shot through and through, representing the range of 1d8 damage.
But with a sword it either hits you or it doesn't, and if it hits you it's more likely to put you out of the fight than be something you can shrug off and keep fighting with.

>>51922989
I did the same with HE Snipers. It was like carrying around a rocket launcher.

>>51921333
Insta-crit with sneak attack damage if you absolutely have to follow the crunch. Have the mage unable to use vocal components due to a severe case of slit throat, and give the assassin rogue levels.

>>51922561
So don't pull it out you retard. A bullet doesn't give you that option, leaves a larger wound channel and generally penetrates your entire body as opposed to penetrating a couple inches and stopping. Bullets are simply more lethal which is why they are used instead of automatic crossbows or something.

>>51921635
>tfw Mass Effect had the Reapers firing jets of molten metal at near-C
>do the math correctly that the yield would be several hundred kilotons
>with absolutely no clue how fucking devastating that kind of weapon would actually be

>>51922232
Dodging the point and you know it.

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>>51923132
>defending trash effect

>>51921813
How extreme is your life.

>>51920070
that is a thing that happens a lot in City Hunter.
But at least they periodically acknowledge things like overpenetration

>>51922859
Was speaking more about handguns, really, but overpenetration happens. Your bullet CAN actually be going too fast.

>>51922383
Nah, eurofag conscription.

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>>51919739
You forget the principles of yawing and fragmentation, also when thing moves fast hit hard

>>51923099
>Bullets are simply more lethal
Wrong. They're more accurate, and they cause more trauma to the parts they actually hit, but a bladed weapon wound is a different story where the medics are constantly fighting a battle against massive blood loss. A bullet through the vitals has the same effect but a stabbing can cause you to bleed out from a wound through the hand because of the sheer amount of blood-carrying tissue it cuts open.
>instead of automatic crossbows or something
Beyond retarded. The whole shift from 7.62 to 5.56mm ammunition was because you could carry around physically more ammunition in the same space/weight restrictions with only a slight reduction in lethality. How many crossbow bolts do you think you could feasibly carry, and how expensive would it be to ship 2000 of them across the world vs a case of rifle cartridges?

>>51922721
Jedi are pretty OP, ban Force Slam, restrict the use of skill focus regarding use the Force (unless you like people rolling 20+ regularly) if you don't powergame you'll be literally useless

>>51922917
I'm level 16 atm, combat goes alright depending. If your players know what their characters do then the turns should be fast, but if they have to look up what all their abilities are each turn it grinds to a halt. Also at high levels DMs literally can't use single enemies anymore because a kitted out gunslinger can KO them round 1, regardless of strength or HP. The condition track is a bitch.

>>51922917
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1-u01jf8ArRWFEp6tjW-M8gBt95M8Cxj If anybody's interested. Episode 4's audio is noticeably less crap.

>>51922996
But they aren't remotely the same you idiot.
Getting grazed by a gun isn't 1 damage. Getting repeatedly grazed by a gunshot isn't going to put you out of a fight.
But getting multiple shallow bleeding cuts from a sword, while initially won't put you out of the fight eventually will.
Due to the nature of the weapons, a guy with a gun trying to kill you is going to do it hitting your center of mass and doing massive damage. A guy with a sword is swinging at you while you're blocking and dodging, making most hits glancing.
False equivalency.

>>51923295
We're using Roll20 and I've been making sure to put the descriptions for my talents on my sheet, i don't know about everyone else though. We'll see how it goes once we start getting force stuff.

>>51923325
>hilarious retard actually thinks his uneducated opinion is correct despite being obviously wrong

>>51923339
We do too, but one Jedi always has to figure out exactly what the best move is (it's normally attack 3 times with your lightsabres) and our gunslinger knows everything his character does, but doesn't have any of it bound to a roll command, so he has to do in manually each time.

Me, I either aim and shoot or give out some damage and RD buffs. Yay sniper...

>>51923349
I don't see how I'm wrong consider pre-gun warfare was so different than post-gun warfare.
People survive knife attacks all the time. Not nearly as many people survive getting shot.

>>51923157
So, your image implies that you cant back up your statements and are the finger puppet of fascists? I'm sorry to hear that, it must be terrible.

>>51923414
>Not nearly as many people survive getting shot.
Survival rate for a shot to the body is 80%

Survival rate if your heart is beating when you get to the hospital is 95%.

>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/nyregion/03shot.html?_r=1

>>51923417
;^)

>>51920356
>most people have 10 hp
>minimum damage a bullet does is 6
>a grazing shot puts you below half your health
>max is 36
>one bullet kills you three and a half times over on a good shot

>>51923545
Weird thing, I've read that if you get shot through the heart, they get to you in five minutes, and they decide to go for it, you've still got a 33% chance of not being a corpse.

>>51923966
I tried looking up stabbing statistics, but all I could find is a 1 in 3 chance of surviving getting stabbed in the heart, so this doesn't surprise me actually.

>>51923911
Yeah, doesn't make any sense at all. People are in the news for surviving a dozen gunshot wounds all the time.

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>>51924129
Obviously those guys were retired adventurers.

>>51923966
>you've still got a 33% chance of not being a corpse.
Modern medicine is a hell of a thing.
Though the trade off is we have a lot more people that have to deal with the after effects of really severe injuries that they wouldn't have survived just 20 years ago.

>>51924277
Nah, they weren't tough guys or anything, a lot of them were total pussies like 50 cent

>>51924323
Fiddy is obviosly a bard.

>>51923417
>people are still this triggered by donald trump
8 years!

>>51923911
That's not how GURPS works.

You're not 100% dead until you're at -50hp (if you start with 10hp), until then you can be saved, if you roll well enough on your saving throws.

Also, anyone who plays GURPS with guns is probably using the less lethal gun rules.

>>51924400

Sorry, I don't enjoy being peed on by a small handed bitch baby.

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>>51924446

>>51924446
That's the best you can come up with? No wonder you guys lost.

>>51924465

Well I just refuse to bow down before trump and become a goose stepping red hat.

>>51920892
no, it's plot armor!
low level scrub might survive a hard hit, high level hero shrugs off overwhelming force without batting an eye.
that is why cure light wounds gives you more hp without fixing real damage, which you need restoration/heal for.

>>51924479
So instead you'd rather bow down to Killary and become a goose stepping black shirt? Wow, you're a real human been and a real hero

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>>51924479
What's wrong with Red Hat?

>>51924479
>I just refuse to bow down
Y'know you can do that without getting triggered by images, using utterly retarded phrases such as "the finger puppet of fascists" and repeating extremely idiotic fake news stories about trump being a piss fetishist. Just because you're upset isn't an excuse to act like a fucking moron all the time, it's embarrassing. You're helping trump and his supporters by being this stupid.

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>>51924500

I don't make any excuses for her. She was a shit candidate who ran a shit campaign and let a fucking clown beat her.

Regardless I'm starting to feel more and more like Armstrong, Everything has to burn because both sides are shit. I kinda wish Civil War 2 would just kick off already.

>>51924539
>fake news
Thread's over folks, I'm out of here.

>>51924500
>So instead you'd rather bow down to Killary
Not that Anon, but both choices sucked. Honestly we'd have had to put up with salt and gloating either way. So can we please keep the political bullshit out of /tg/?

>>51924552
Have you considered that it's actually you who is shit and that everything is pretty much fine except for you and the people like you?

>>51924575
>here's my political opinion
>now that I'm done saying my opinion we need to keep the political bullshit out of /tg/

The casual hypocrisy of you people is fucking hilarious.

>>51924593
>"you people"
>is posting with the rest of us
senpai i have bad news

>>51924557
If any story deserves that moniker it was fucking pissgate, there's a reason so many other news organizations didn't run that story before buzzfeed even though they could've.

>>51924659
Watching the term fake news instantly backfire on the professional liars at CNN was so fucking glorious.

God damn this timeline is amazing.

What game are you crying about?

Also ballistic gel tests show that guns absolutely fucking wreck shit.

>>51924736
And people surviving being shot like 23 times show that no matter how impressive a slowmo shot of jello being wobbled is, guns don't do shit for damage unless you hit a vital spot.

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>>51919980
It's been confirmed! Shrek is will appear in ME: Andromeda.

>>51924830
DOHN

KAY

>>51919739

>Mom said it's my turn to hold the gun!

>>51919980
SOME
BODY

>>51924766
I was referring more to permanent cavities they leave, the fact they'll leave a wider wound channel than arrows and more reliably reach vitals even through heavy clothing or interceding limbs (or for that matter through obstacles no arrow would have a goddamn hope in hell of penetrating through).

>oh but people can survive a billion bullets in the news

Yeah, there are plenty of stories of people riding back full of arrows from the American frontier. This is a fault of hitpoint systems (and for that matter, I've never seen a health system that can accurately model the bizarre durability and fragility of the human body at the same time), but the fact still remains that a rifle round is "better" in the sense of being more lethal and destructive than an arrow in every sense by a huge margin.

The only time you "get pierced by a 3 foot spear" is when you hit 0 hp. Everything else is minor nicks.

>>51924830
SOME

>>51924830
I said YEP what a concept, I could use some tranny dudes myself and we could all use a gender chaaaaaaaaaaange

>>51924906
>a health system that can accurately model the bizarre durability and fragility of the human body

Make a difficult fort save every time you get hit. If success, you survive. If fail, you die instantly.

Some people slip on ice, fall down and die and some people get thrown through their car window and dragged across the pavement after a 40 mile/hour crash and get to walk into an ambulance and be discharged from hospital 2 hours later.

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>>51924957
>tfw you realize that the simulation we perceive as the universe takes statistical shortcuts to save processing time and the result is weird shit like "miraculous" survivals.

>>51924766
>people surviving being shot like 23 times
Yeah, and sometimes the enemy rolls 10 1's in a row on his damage rolls.

Remember that HP and damage are abstractions. If the enemy rolls low, well it means he missed any vitals, and if he rolls high then it means he fucking hit a vital spot. That's how RPGs work.

It makes sense for guns to have a large damage spread, precisely because they can miss all vital spots by sheer luck and fuck-all damage, but more than likely you're getting put down in a couple of shots because the bullet hit a vital.

>le caliber doesn't matter meme
An opinion held exclusively by whiteboard warriors who run requisitions for the FBI. Nobody who has ever shot a living animal holds this perspective. Low-cal high pressure rounds are about as useful against a bear as throwing billiard balls at it. Caliber matters.

>>51923325
But they aren't remotely the same you idiot.
Getting grazed by a sword isn't 1 damage. Getting repeatedly grazed by sword wounds isn't going to put you out of a fight.
But getting multiple shallow bleeding cuts from bullets, while initially won't put you out of the fight eventually will.
Due to the nature of the weapons, a guy with a sword trying to kill you is going to do it hitting your arteries and doing massive damage. A guy with a gun is spray-and-praying at you while you're hiding in cover and dodging, making most hits glancing.
False equivalency.

>>51925081
>Remember that HP and damage are abstractions.

Wow thanks Dr. Neil Degrasse Tyson you really made me think

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>>51925005
I'd disagree with you, but a couple years back my uncle accidentally backed his backhoe into some powerlines and only just barely rolled out in time to avoid frying himself into the leather seat.

>>51924766
People bring up extraordinary circumstances like this to imply that firearms aren't deadly and terrifying in their power, but the vastly more common result is people being permanently crippled or dying from being shot.

>guns don't do shit for damage unless you hit a vital spot.

Destroying muscular tissue and ripping open wide channels in blood vessels is not "shit" for damage. Most games just don't model slow death all that well, and instead opt for quick results for ease.

>>51925172
>80% of people survive being shot
>most of those people are not crippled

>but the vastly more common result is people being permanently crippled or dying from being shot.

Quite the opposite kiddo. Try to keep up, will you?

>>51925185
Those are some nice citations.

>>51924925
BODY

>>51925211
Go back to wherever you're from and try to read the thread before commenting next time, will you?

>>51921030
>the use of feet for measurement in science

>>51919739
Guns are better than harpoons unless you're a whaler or some shit. People aren't whales, obesity epidemic aside.

Use a gun.

>>51925185
>>51925211
I found it shortly after. That's interesting, but that's also with immediate medical attention.

How many people don't make it to the hospital?

Also "shots to 80% of targets on the body" does not mean "80% of people survive getting shot." It means "80% of targets in the torso are likely to be non-fatal."

>>51925227
How about you go fuck yourself with your own hand?

>>51925289
:^)

>>51925275
To add to this: let's take a look at the Virginia Tech Shooting.

32 people were killed, 17 more were wounded, all with pistol caliber rounds, one of which was .22 caliber. So that means a total of 49 people were shot, 32 people dying in the course of it is a 65% lethality rate.

>>51925315
>let's take a look at one of the most fatal mass shootings in modern history and I still can only pull a 65%

Guns aren't shit

>>51925335
Well, you got any incidents involving bows where modern medicine was able to treat the victims?

Also keep in mind that damage also determines not just lethality to characters, but also penetration of inanimate barriers and the like in many systems.

>>51925111
I think it's pretty cool that grizzly skulls are thick enough to stop low caliber rounds. Like how the fuck does my character shatter a bear skull when 9mm will bounce off?

>>51925335
You get proven wrong and you pull that kind of petty response? You're a fucking child.

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>>51925405
Look how mad this idiot is!

>>51921333
Treat it as Coup de Grace.

>>51920321

All Poles are European. There's no Poland in Africa.

>>51919954
Citing Cosmo Dragoons is unfair. Those are meant to be ridiculously OP in universe.

>>51919847
under rated post

>>51924936
>>51919980
>>51921975
>romanced Garrus in ME3
>Gonna get some sweet lesbian action with the new Turian in ME Andromeda

Feelsgoodman.jpg

Why are men such whiny bitches when it comes to fucking an alien that doesn't look ''''feminine''''' enough for them?

You didn't hear chicks complaining about choosing between a bird-lizard and fuckin KAIDEN in ME3, didja?

Asari are for plebs. Go Turian or go home.

>>51925678
0/10 not even remotely believable. Try a lot harder.

>>51919739
How does she not get shot?

>>51920416
For some stupid reason fingers are hard as fuck to animate. Seriously, 90% of the time hands are muppet clubs with magic velcro powers. The rest of the time it's either they spent way too much time coding that shit or they do like in that gif and get the hands off screen becuase it would be jarring as fuck compared to the detail on everything else. Yes, even when games like that one that are cleary a step DOWN in graphics quality form previous installments. You'd have to head over to tech to get an explanation for why we can have real time jiggle physics, dynamic hair, but whenever someone goes to eat something they dip their head down and do a 3 sec fade to black.

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>>51920754
Feet Per Second you ignorant fuckwit.

A lot of this argument is failing to address that there are serious degrees of survivability.

For one, a lot of this is a testament to modern medicine and emergency services response time. We're usually looking at statistics based on domestic (civ, cop, criminal) shootings and a lot of those happen in urban or suburban areas, which means fast and reliable medical attention.

How long were GSW victims in surgery? Who ended up in a coma? Who ended up paralyzed, partially or fully? How many liters of blood did they lose? How many needed life support? And even a non-fatal GSW is going to take some decent physical therapy to get you back to your pre-wounded shape (if you get there at all)

Judging based solely on who still has a heartbeat is a piss poor way to measure effectiveness

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>>51919739
Why are you so fucking retarded? Behold the power of cavitation

Videos a bit meme'd up but it gives a good idea of the effects of bullet cavitation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr7dpEDNNC4

>>51919739
When I first heard people accusing Bioware of deliberately making the female characters ugly I dismissed it, until I saw just how bad the female models are.
For fuck's sake, they did better than that almost ten years ago. This is especially agregious when you consider that that character in this gif is based on a real actress who is actually attractive, while there is a male character also based on the voice actor who is a perfect recreation of said voice actor.
Either they accidentally assigned the most incompetent 3D artist in the studio to do the women, or it is a deliberate choice.

>>51925724
>non-SI units
It is I who will be doing the laughing.

>>51921764
Disposable Heat Sinks, technically. In the second game when the Fluff-o-matic 9000 explains that after studiying Geth weapons the Citatdel races opted to just eject the heat sink when it was over capacity and cram a new one in. Because overheated heat sinks work just like overheated barrels, duh.

>>51924894
ONCE
TOLD ME

>>51925782
Not that anon but muzzle velocity is always measured in feet per second. I didn't make the standard, but you're the one looking stupid.

>>51924552
Just vote for a third party. If you'd also like to win, become really famous and vote for a third party while announcing to the world repeatedly that's what you're doing.

>>51925218
ONCE

>>51925812
>implying that we didn't elect trump because he is exactly like voting third party but actually effective

>>51925678
I think it's not the lack of feminity, I'd fuck one of Mordin's species or Garrus. It's more that they're ugly

>>51923545
That's mostly down to pistols being really bad at actually killing people.

>>51925699
the shooter was distracted

>>51925831
It would be more correct to say that it's mostly down to the fact that modern medicine is very, very good at things like that.

They've had a lot of practice.

>>51925862
I'd be distracted too if that greasy bug eyed death mask was staring at me

>>51919739
hitpoints were a mistake

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>>51925678

>mfw you find this funny

I took the bait, there is no turning back.

>>51925366
You'd be surprised how much force a person can output. Bullets are just fantastic at concentrating it.

>>51919739
Why GURPS is such a shitty System? GURPSfag should kill themselves.

>>51926020
Awww, what a cute lil maddie!

>>51921981

And getting out of the Mako to Overkill armatures, since it was quicker.

>>51925741
Post-event reports are also a poor way to judge how much damage a weapon does to someone during combat.

Doesn't matter to most game systems if someone dies after the fight, only when they stopped fighting.

>>51925111
But the FBI are in the business of shooting people, not bears, why would that matter to them?

>>51920403
>what is hollow point.

>>51926543
hollow point energy is a free floating type of energy that doesn't interact with matter in the usual way that normal energy does

>>51921333
Find a better group.
Play a better game.

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>>51922817
>clip

>>51921874
For comparison, Shrek Effect mass drivers shoot projectiles at ~1% speed of light iirc.
Also the projectiles are designed to shatter on impact, they don't poke tiny holes.

>>51926698
>Shrek Effect
kek'd

>>51925315
You also have to take into consideration that the victims of Virginia Tech shooting likely suffered more than one gunshot wound. Survival rate of 80% when being shot likely means the rate of survival from a single gunshot wound; when you add more gunshot wounds the lethality rate also logically increases.

>>51925862
>>51925699
There's distracted and then there's paralyzed.

Shooter's finger is on the trigger, touching the gun is a horrible idea because it'd invariably result in startling the shooter which would cause them to pull the trigger. It's the reason behind "trigger discipline".

>>51926940
Trigger discipline doesn't exist because you want to make it safer for others to grab your weapon, it's because if you fall or get surprised or anything, you don't involuntarily pull the trigger.

Disarming techniques always have you redirect before stripping the weapon away specifically because the gun is very likely to go off, and you want the round to go somewhere other than your body. After it fires it's very likely to malfunction and no longer be immediately dangerous.

T. 5 years of krav maga and competetive shooting

>>51926696
Might want to stay away from Shadowrun.

>>51927111
They at least know the proper terms and are misusing it knowingly.

>>51926971
>After it fires it's very likely to malfunction
What the hell kind of gun are you dealing with?

>>51927150
Semi-automatic handguns, mostly. But the same applies to rifles too. Revolvers would be the hardest to get to malfuncition, but then again you can simply grab the hammer and it isn't going to fire.

>>51927159
>Semi-automatic handguns, mostly. But the same applies to rifles too.
Again, what sort of shitty guns are you dealing with that will malfunction because you knock them to the side and yank them out of somebody's hand?

>>51927175
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVtXPIjM3jQ

>>51927178
I thought you were meaning a real malfunction.

>>51927150
>What the hell kind of gun are you dealing with?

I don't think he meant "guns are likely to fail in general," he meant "guns are likely to fail if you're holding the slide to prevent it from going into battery."

>>51927208
I was specifically talking about a malfunction that happens as a part of the disarm technique. Here's how the technique is most likely to happen:

>grab gun, simultaneously redirecting the muzzle away from your body and moving the body out of the way of the muzzle
>attacker is likely to react to your movement, pulling the trigger as a reflex
>gun goes off, doesn't (hopefully) hit your body
>gun malfunctions and is no longer immediately threatening
>do enough damage to the attacker to get his mind off holding the gun
>break grip, take the weapon
Then either
>clear malfunction
>engage if necessary
Or
>change hands
>draw your own weapon
>engage if necessary

>scan and assess, check yourself for hits

Makes sense?

>>51921405
>Holy fuck you could not possibly be more wrong

I've seen ballistic gel get forced apart with such power, the collapse produced enough energy to do a shock ignition of the material

But I mean sure, there's no shockwave because you decided to be mean on the internet :^)

>>51927264
>Makes sense?
No, because where I come from 'forcibly prevented from occurring by human intervention' does not fall under 'malfunction'. That is the entirety of my confusion.

>>51927292
It's still a malfunction, anon, just an induced one.

>>51920568


I'm recalling all the historical accounts I've read in which spears left exit wounds exponentially wider than their diameter.

>>51919739
I'm still disapointed about the whole "let's go to another galaxy for resources" thingy. That it shouldn't be a concern when one has a whole unexplored galaxy right here sounds like a thing the first Mass Effect would take notice of.

This becomes a concern only when your civilization consumes about, huh, three dozen sun-units of power every cycle.

>>51920568
What is Hydrostatic Shock for $1000, Alex.

>>51927325
I'm guessing the reason why they left for Andromeda isn't just a lack of resources. I mean only about 1% of the milky way is explored in-universe, so going that far just for resources would be idiotic.

Unfortunately I wouldn't put it past modern Bioware to not even consider that.

>>51927319
>I'm recalling all the historical accounts I've read in which spears left exit wounds exponentially wider than their diameter.

>wider than the very small thing we're talkin about

Nigger nobody cares about a .4 inch wide bullet leaving a .8 inch wide exit wound when they have a 3 inch wide blade in their guts

>>51927349
Thank you, t. ignoranmus.

>>51927344
Yeah...

I would explain it as an unoficial mission to salvage civilization from the Reapers, a worst case plan that many of the colonizers may not know about.

I share your concern.

>>51919739
The DMG's gun rules are absolutely bonkers.

You can either fire one shot every six seconds or fill a 10 foot cube with ten bullets.

Why not just give semi-auto weapons the ability to fire again at -4 as a bonus action, and put the spray-and-pray ability as exclusive to Assault Rifles and Machine Guns? Dual Wielding then gives you Flurry of Blows (possibly at disadvantage depending on balance).

>>51927407
Maps of the Andromeda galaxy show some weird effect in the middle of the galaxy, investigating and possibly trying to weaponise it may also be a reasonable explanation for travelling all the way there.

This guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRNwOieLfiA provides some fairly well thought out speculation regarding the matter.

>>51925699
>>51925862
If you watch the video, she steps up slowly to the shooter (who had already walked way closer than he should have) and then does that. Slowly. There's no tricks there or .gif problem, that's the real speed.

>>51921624

>i just read an article about heat-developing weapons being impratical on spaceships

Which is why using some wonder-material with magical heat capacity as "ammo" makes perfect fucking sense

>>51921782
It's the motherfucking eyes. What is wrong with her eyes?

She looks like a frog.

>>51927600
Krogan ancestry

>>51924421
I've never heard of the less lethal gun rules. Gimme a rundown?

>>51923911
He's wrong though because pistols rarely exceed 3d6 for those honking handcannons, and most have a piercing (pi) or small piercing (pi-) injury types; a strong dude with an axe or spear has on average slightly less armor-penetrating power but inflicts more trauma on unarmored/under-armored targets.

For bigger guns that do get in to the 6d6 range or higher, a number of fixes have been published for those that want them:
>Halve damage but also halve target DR; armor-pen is maintained while destructive ability is reduced.
>Cap injury from torso hits to HP; unless you hit a vital organ (separate hit location), a piece of metal with such a tiny cross-section is only going to do so much. Any damage "lost" still contributes to bleeding though, and torso hits have a 1:6 chance of hitting the vitals instead.
>Attacks that make it exactly (margin of success 0) or that are almost dodged (margin of failure 1) halve damage, double DR, and I think do something else special (away from books at the moment); the possibility of grazes makes gunfights less roflstompy.

>>51927428
I mean to be fair the system was absolutely not designed around gunplay, so obviously the gun rules are gonna be shit.

>>51927713
It's rather simple, you divide rifles' damage by 2 and add an armor divisor of (2) so that it does less damage but can still penetrate armor more easily than pistols (Hollow point ammo gets a divisor of (1) and armor piercing of (4), to fit.)
You don't need to touch handguns, most SMGs, shotguns or muskets, most of their damage is already well in the survivable range, if still dangerous.

>>51919739
Kinetic energy, dude. It scales linearly with mass, but quadratically with speed. Something 10 times lighter but 10 times faster hits 10 times harder.

>>51919739
Retard.
First >>51919847
Then,ifyou are talking modern weapons, yes, they are meant to critically wound people. An injured soldiers needs up to two others helping him to get of the battlefield, three people one bullet is a good trade.
Second, the weapons that made spears and swords obsolete were FUCKN' TERRIFYING.
An unshapely blobb of metal coated tearing through skin, bone and muscleand leaving a wound channel that makes modern rifles blush in inadequacy, lined with burned flesh, cloth and burned black powder residue.
Even if you survive the shot, you are usually dead because this shit can't heal in any way and WILL give you a blood poisoning.

>>51927766
Is that the formula from Survivable Guns?

>>51927766
Have you ever tried ... not playing GURPS?

>>51927596
Not when it was established to work without wonder material.

Its there to keep you from holing up in a corner and because CoD faggots think magazine reloads look cool.

>>51926971
>Trigger discipline doesn't exist because you want to make it safer for others to grab your weapon, it's because if you fall or get surprised or anything, you don't involuntarily pull the trigger.
And I'm arguing that grabbing the gun while the shooter is looking in other direction counts as being "surprised or anything".

>>51927938
What are you talking about, it's the perfect opportunity to grab the gun when the shooter is looking in other direction.

>>51921782
Why is Shrek bullying Manly Tears?
And why did he paint himself blue?

>>51927950
Move then grab. Why not just yell "SURPRISE" while the gun's aiming right at your heart and spine.

>>51928044
Grab, redirect, move the body. You need control more than anything.

>>51927296
Not that anon, but it's not a "malfunction" if it does exactly what the person fiddling with it (you) wants it to do.

Malfunction would be if you do that trick and it goes off and explodes in your hands anyway.

>>51927349
>>51927319

both of you are fucking retarded.

>>51928107
>malfunction
>malˈfʌŋ(k)ʃ(ə)n/
>verb
>verb: malfunction; 3rd person present: malfunctions; past tense: malfunctioned; past participle: malfunctioned; gerund or present participle: malfunctioning

>1.
>(of a piece of equipment or machinery) fail to function normally.

>noun
>noun: malfunction

>1.
>a failure to function normally.

It fails to function normally, it's malfunctioning. Shell casing being stuck in the chamber and failing to extract is not its designed function, therefore it's a malfunction.

Now can we stop this retarded semantical argument?

>>51928147
>It fails to function normally
But NOT shooting when the mechanism is deliberately interfered with in order to make it not shoot IS functioning "normally". It's only a "malfunction" if you expect it to shoot and it doesn't, or vice versa.

>>51921690
And basically true

>>51928190
>>But NOT shooting when the mechanism is deliberately interfered with in order to make it not shoot IS functioning "normally".
No. It's malfunctioning because the mechanism is deliberately interfered with.

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>>51924830

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>>51920892
>HP is meat points.
My favourite way of doing it.

>>51928147
>Shell casing being stuck in the chamber
It's not really very stuck, is it?

>>51928410
Is it extracted? No? Then it's stuck in the chamber.

>>51928419
It's only stuck if the extractor has failed to pull it out. The extractor hasn't been engaged, since the slide hasn't moved, but it will quite happily remove the casing if the slide is worked manually, ergo it's not stuck.

>>51928438
The extractor did fail to pull it out though.

>>51928442
No, the extractor never tried.

>>51928463
The extractor tried, but couldn't, because the gun malfunctioned due an obstruction to the slide's movement.

>>51919739


jesus fuck, did slaanesh facefuced her face

>>51928477
>The extractor tried
No, because the slide didn't move.

>>51928524
Yeah, techically you're right, the malfunction was in the unlocking phase rather than extraction phase.

Not that it matters but here's my 40 cents.
Utimatly a bullet is only lethal/damaging in a line the diameter of the round it's self, given its velocity it becomes nigh impossible to Actively dodge i.e you can't jump out of the way deliberalty. You can get.lucky by anticipating and.cover.

Swords do their hurting in a wide band and can be dodged and parried. But once you get hit you are probablly going to to get hit more as running away is a bad idea.

A sword will probablly knock you on your ass, a bullet might make you stop moving foreward as it imparts significantly less inertia to a wide area.

A bullet will explode your spleen and take a vertebra home with it as it goes out your body.

A sword will sever tendons and slice the stuff that needs to be unsliced

Why are we pretending that gif isn't retarded

>>51928536
What I'm getting at it in the split second before the overwhelming pain set in and you die of shock you can either dive behind cover or keep running from a gun, or try and disarm the thugs boo with a grosse Messer taking your arm off at the shoulder.

If you live you either get internal bleeding and organ damage which is moderately fatal, or loose the functionality of an arm, leg, finger.

Bullets rupture, blades maim. Both are generally pretty shitty.

Any Mook can fore a gun, that same Mook probablly can't decapitate you in one slice though

Been stabbed, that sucks, it feels.like their taking your soul when the blade.comes out.
I imagine a bullet is the reverse.

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>>51928488
They fucked up every females face on purpose, while making the men look hot. Bioware have become SJWs.

>>51920855
Gods, I miss that thing....

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>>51920438
Eh, fuck that shit.

This is .22 round called ".22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer"

>>51924906
>I've never seen a health system that can accurately model the bizarre durability and fragility of the human body at the same time
Best I've seen was Burning Wheel.

Single hit can (and probably will) functionally take you out of a fight, but you're unlikely to get killed by an enemy unless your enemy really wants you dead. More likely to die during the healing process.

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>>51928756
It's fast, but it doesn't hold a candle to .950 JDJ in terms of actual power. Just under 52.5 kJ of energy, as compared to the .22 EL's 3.2 kJ.

>>51928798
Eh, I don't care about that. I just love how silly the entire thing looks.

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>>51928756
Do you shoot it or drink it?

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>>51928826
Oddly enough, you shoot it.

>>51924906
Any soaking damage house rule can take care of that if the health system is on the "fragility" side.

>>51925748
"Point to a hole or I'll make one myself", in diagram form.

>>51927913
Yes.

>>51927916
I'm sorry that dividing by 2 is too hard for you. Maybe you can play a one page RPG system with a big font?

>>51928688
There's a woman in the trailer who looks fine. She just happens to be a villain.

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>>51919739

>>51930494
Someone needs to kill their animators. Right now.

>>51928539
We aren't, lol

>>51928531
>shields cause sword malfunctions

>>51931559
autism

>>51927159
What if it's a hammerless revolver?