Justice is evil. All it does is serve the dead while neglecting

didn't you post this thread already

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>>51881675
There is no good and no evil. Only deterrence.

>>51881675
You have very little idea of what justice is, do you? Either that or you're perfectly aware of how you're misusing the word to bait out responses.

>>51881675
that's the stupidest thing I've read all month

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Oh god stop trying to force your shitpost into popularity, your way to obvious about it, not to mention this isn't /v/ so undertale isn't going to trigger enough people, go home a rethink your methods

>>51881675
>I should waste time trying to redeem this one hard case instead of just finishing and moving on to the next one
>either one or two more murdered innocents as they work their way to redemption, or other badguys get away clean and do similar damage because I'm babysitting this one
Get a load of this guy.

>>51881716
You clearly don't visit /b/

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>>51881675
Wrong.

>>51881722
You know I say that but I'm sure I'll be proven wrong and /tg/ will disappoint once again

Oh no worries, I am just teasing you guys.

Gonna post a story on Lawful Goodness soon enough, that'll serve to restore some faith in mankind I am sure.

>>51881746
Mr. A is correct, though some victims can be rehabilitated. Others cannot, and justice is recognizing the ones who can be brought to the path of good and the ones who cannot.

This is why I think the death penalty is appropriate in certain situations: it's better than the two alternatives. The first being letting an individual who cannot be rehabilitated back on the streets where he can cause even more harm, the second being keeping that man cooped up in a prison for life, which is both cruel to the guilty (he will spend up to 80 years in a cell with nothing to look forward to but the death that will not be granted to him even if he attempts suicide) and the innocent (they have to provide for his food, water, clothes and doomed-to-fail rehabilitation attempts through taxation).

This is why the EU is retarded, as it has already abolished the death sentence and now wants to abolish life sentences (the Netherlands being the last country in the EU that actually enforces life sentences as for life punishments). It utterly relies on the Marxist idea of the mallable man who can be battered into shape if the hammer of the state is large enough, reality be damned.

This thread sucked the last time you posted it too

>>51882532
I'll give you life sentences, but death sentences are the dumbest thing to exist on this planet.

Like, what about the ~4% of death sentenced people who are innocent (in US)? Their lives are lost forever, just because the society decided that it's okay to murder their own citizens if there are claims strong enough that they have done something really unforgivable. Even if those claims become untrue, a death sentence cannot be undone.

And this isn't about sanctity of life or anything. What if you were framed for murder, and you were put to death row? Your opinion about the matter would probably be very different.

>>51883643
Correction, death sentence can be undone, but an execution cannot.

>>51881690
Nah, the precursor thread had mercy instead of justice.
Same image, though.

>>51883643
>I'll give you life sentences, but death sentences are the dumbest thing to exist on this planet.
So you oppose both life sentences and death sentences? So what am I to assume here, that you are in favor of the European system where utter and irredeemable psychopaths like Breivik can freely walk the streets in 15 years, ready to make even more victims as they fancy?

>Like, what about the ~4% of death sentenced people who are innocent (in US)?
Then that is a flaw in how the legal system functions, not something that invalidates death sentences. If you're so insecure about that 4%, it would be possibly to introduce an even higher burden of proof for death sentence carrying crimes (so instead of just making a certain chain of events the most likely one, for a death sentence you need evidence that's "beyond reasonable doubt". It wouldn't make the system flawless but no human-made system is flawless).

>just because the society decided that it's okay to murder their own citizens if there are claims strong enough that they have done something really unforgivable.
Yeah, exactly. Welcome to the social contract.

>What if you were framed for murder, and you were put to death row? Your opinion about the matter would probably be very different.
Yeah, just like how I loudly toot how important conscription is for a society until a war breaks out two countries over and I'm shivering in my boots. My personal opinions regarding a social/legal if I were to find myself in it does not change whether or not a social/legal system in the grand scheme of things is better or worse than its alternatives. Because that's what we're always doing in human politics: not trying to find the ultimate end-all be-all solution, but the lesser evil. Taxation itself is an evil (theft justified by the state's monopoly on violence) but it is one we tolerate for we know the alternative is worse.

>>51882960
Threads on /tg/ only suck as much as we allow them to.

>>51883925

Can you read?

>>51882532
To be fair, their recidivism rates are among the lowest in the world, so they must be doing something right there. A judicial system that works to rehabilitate instead of just merely punish seems to work wonders and be a bit more than just a Marxist fairy tale.

>>51884020
>A judicial system that works to rehabilitate instead of just merely punish seems to work wonders
Which is why I never opposed rehabilitation as a model. It works for the grand majority of cases, but it's wishful thinking that it works in all cases. We must admit some people cannot be rehabilitated and are too dangerous to ever let loose in society again.

>>51883997
Nope, I just jam my dick on my keyboard and words come out.

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>>51881675
Extremely relevant

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>>51883925
Breivik did nothing wrong.

>>51881675
HEY LOOK IT'S THE MORAL COMPASS OF CANADA

>>51883925
>So you oppose both life sentences and death sentences?

Dude, he said the exact opposite of that.

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>>51881675
>>51881692
There is no good. No evil. Only PAAH.

>>51884187
Not really.
>I'll give you life sentences
Which implies that he agrees with me on life sentences: they're cruel, ineffective and expensive.
>but
implying contrast (eg. agreeing with one, disagreeing with the other)
>death sentences are the dumbest thing to exist on this planet
Speaks for itself.

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>>51883654
Correction

>>51883925
>the European system where utter and irredeemable psychopaths like Breivik can freely walk the streets in 15 years
Except this is a total lie. At the end of his sentence he'll be evaluated, and if he's deemed not to be rehabilitated then his sentence can be extended by several years, at which point he'll be evaluated again. Most likely he'll be in prison for the rest of his life.

Being lenient is not the same as being stupid.

>>51883925
>so instead of just making a certain chain of events the most likely one, for a death sentence you need evidence that's "beyond reasonable doubt"

You mean like is currently required to convict someone of any crime?

>>51881675
OP is a faggot that can't tell the difference between justice and revenge.
OP needs to pick up a fucking dictionary.

>>51884111
So don't release them? Put them in jail forever. Your claims that it's cruel are asinine. If it were somehow more morally reprhensible than death then why isn't kidnapping considered anywhere near murder on the "badness scale". Likewise, getting ass devestated that a tenth of a penny of your tax money might make its way to the criminal's prison and pay for his daily gruel is a pants on head retarded reason to just say "kill 'em instead".

>>51881675

But that's wrong you hyperliberal bleeding heart retard.

Particularly in an unsophisticated setting like DND.

No one has the time, money and energy to devote to trying to rehabilitate a murdering rapist in the medieval ages, while also campaigning against the orcs (who are also murdering rapists).

Hell, rehabilitation of prisoners barely works in our modern times in first world countries.

The recidivism statistics for USA, last official study showed the following:

>Within three years of release, about two-thirds (67.8 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested.
>Within five years of release, about three-quarters (76.6 percent) of released prisoners were rearrested.
>Of those prisoners who were rearrested, more than half (56.7 percent) were arrested by the end of the first year.
>Property offenders were the most likely to be rearrested, with 82.1 percent of released property offenders arrested for a new crime compared with 76.9 percent of drug offenders, 73.6 percent of public order offenders and 71.3 percent of violent offenders.

And you want a medieval King to gamble on that? You want a champion of justice and goodness like a Paladin to gamble that the murdering rapist will be in the 28% who doesn't murder or rape?

>>51885439
https://www.nij.gov/topics/corrections/recidivism/Pages/welcome.aspx#statistics

left the citation out by accident

>>51881675
>Smite demonlord who has been terrorizing local villages for years
>Faggot OP makes paladin fall for not redeeming them
>Loses another player due to shit DMing

ok

>>51881675
Stop using modern concepts of good and evil

>>51882532
The UK has whole life sentences.

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>>51885439
>he thinks the american prison system even tries to rehabilitate anyone
>he thinks USA is a first world country

>>51885439
Not that I disagree with your point or anything, but if you want to start talking about rehabilitation and reduced recidivism, the US is probably not the best model to look at.

>>51885439
The US system tends to be deterrent based, not rehabilatative based.

The recidivism rate in countries which have more of a rehabilative stance tend to be consistently lower that rates in countries such as the US.

http://www.salve.edu/sites/default/files/filesfield/documents/Incarceration_and_Recidivism.pdf

>>51882532
You know that it's more expensive to execute someone than it is to keep them in prison for life, right?

>>51885623
>>51885666
>>51885677

Yes, you're right, USA isn't a great example of rehabilitation for prisoners. I agree with all of you, except for the faggot implying USA isn't a first world country, that guy can eat shit.

But what dnd setting have you played in where the prisoners weren't dank holes from which light does not escape? Or maybe there were slightly more merciful, like USA prisons.

But were they were set up like little comfortable village homes like, for example, the Swedish prison system? I'm willing to bet not.

Sitting in a medieval jail does not rehabilitate.

You know it would be pretty interesting addition to, say, elves to have them use a system like Sweden, in contrast to the human kingdom's solution of "first offense cut their hand off, second offense cut their head off". Maybe have dwarves shun a criminal Amish-style...

>>51885887
>actually talking about the baitpost instead of just using it to have an argument about the same thing we argue about every time this bait shows up

I'm not saying you're better than the others, but you're not worse either

>>51885234
>why isn't kidnapping considered anywhere near murder on the "badness scale".
Because the presumption is that if certain conditions are fulfilled the kidnapped is released. They aren't kept in place until they die for shits and giggles, at least not in most kidnapping cases, and if such a case were to rear its head I don't doubt the punishment would be equivalent to that of murder.

>>51885692
Source?

>>51885935

This is perhaps the strangest possibly-a-compliment I have ever received.

I guess, thank you. Maybe?

I think I'm onto something with the last part. I'm always looking for ways to make the various racial cultures feel different from each other.

Having totally different approaches to crime feels interesting and possibly offers some neat plot hooks.

>>51885970
Well prison sentences are predicated upon certain conditions being met for release. There is parole, and even a "life sentence" has a duration, sixty years. Whether those conditions are ever actually met varies, of course, just like with kidnappers.

>>51885970

Lethal injections are horribly expensive and have a small but notable chance of going horribly wrong if applied/prepared improperly.

Really a shame we don't do cheaper alternatives, like dropping them off a cliff or hangings overseen by professionals to ensure they're done correctly.

>>51885692

Only because of the idiotic switch to lethal injection. The abject stupidity of buying super-specialized poison at a huge up-charge. And further idiocy involved in required a fully licensed professional doctor administer it. And the COMPOUND idiocy involved in requiring a SECOND fully licensed professional doctor supervise the first doctor.

And also they cheat by including the administrative and legal fees caused by their appeals. They cheat further by including their death row housing, as if staying in normal jail was free or something.

Believe me, if you were taken out and shot in the head the moment your final appeal failed, it would be very quick and much less expensive.

Liberal retardation is the only reason it is less expensive to jail for life rather than execute.

>>51881675
>justice is evil
AYO FUCK LAWS AN SHIET NIGGUH LOOOOOL

>>51884037
>>51884120
These comics are GOAT

>>51886323
Or, how about, now stay with me on this, step two is a little complex, we just don't fucking kill people?

>>51886224
>Going for crueler alternatives
>Not just the guillotine
You have to keep it sharp to make the process quick and painless, but it's cheap enough.

>>51886618
But anon, how else are we going to feel good about ourselves?

>>51886323
>Believe me, if you were taken out and shot in the head the moment your final appeal failed, it would be very quick and much less expensive.

You'd also need to provide a lot of expensive psychologist visits with that one. A lot of the idea behind the lethal injection is to try to make it easy on the living.

Which is dumb as fuck. You are still killing a guy, even if you are killing him 'Nicely'.

>>51888455
Yes, but it takes an inherent disassociation with modern human sensibilities to be able to kill in cold blood and be unaffected by it. If executions were carried out in this way we'd see an incredibly high turnover and mental instability rate for executioners.

>>51888455
Yeah, that's bullshit. You're killing somebody. Feel the fucking weight.

>>51888614

Oh yeah. I'm arguing against execution in general as the whole thing is kinda hypocritical. We are cool with death as long as it's nice and pretty. Dead is dead.

>>51885692
It pays for itself if you harvest their organs.

>>51888676
>implying you yourself could carry that weight
>implying anyone sane can these days

The only way now is to convince yourself that you're ending their suffering somehow - that you're showing them mercy.

>>51886618
If you don't, the victims' families will take it into their own hands.

Blood feuds, anon.

>>51885692
You realize the thousands who were hanged/electrocuted were executed for what is essentially pennies, right?

>>51888455
>A lot of the idea behind the lethal injection is to try to make it easy on the living.

Which is funny, because as anyone who has witnessed a lethal injection will tell you, it it magnitudes more gruesome and inhumane than seeing someone shot/hanged/electrocuted.

>>51888614
We wouldn't and historically there wasn't much of a precedent for executioners getting PTSD. Hell, when hangings were commonplace people used to come around and cheer as they watched. It was the talk of the town to see a hanging of a despised criminal, parents would bring their children and they would leave satisfied.

You have to realize that executioners of the guilty never saw themselves as killing human beings, but as killing damned folk who the world wouldn't miss, and the people spectating felt the same way.

Face it, death sentences are a necessary part of the justice system - always have been and always will and no amount of librul tears can change that.

>>51888716
What we need is good old-fashioned slavery for criminals.

>>51889323
Then they can get punished like we punish every other criminal.

>>51881675
>when you're such an awful person you ruin a gameplay experience because someone has a moral opinion that is different from yours

>>51889416
>this thing was seen as humane and "just the way it is" in the past, so it's perfectly okay

Yeah and times change grandpa, get over yourself. If you want to live in the 1800s go join the Amish.

Ah yes, death sentences are necessary, that's why places where they have been abolished are flooded with criminals and places where they are still practiced are the height of safety and paragons of criminal justice.

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>>51881675

*smite-o-vision intensifies*

>>51881675
Or you could not be a douche and have excellent adventures and stories instead of turning your table into a circlejerk.
But whatever you gotta do, anon.

>>51881675
>His campaign grinds to a halt when someone plays a character he doesn't like

>>51881675
>Whines about the relativity of good and evil in a setting that has objective, self-identifying elemental good and evil forces

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>>51881675
Get past stage 2 anon

>>51889433
Are you not an American? Because we have that.

>>51881675
Why is Chara so much cuter than Frisk? Than anyone?

>>51881675
You're thinking about vengeance.

Justice holds the dead in reverence but always weighs its hand for the living.

>>51881675
>If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:26

Justice isn't about serving the dead (who actually still live in heaven or hell) or about having mercy for the wicked but about serving GOD.

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>>51881675
Shittiest bait I've ever seen. Anyone got some good /tg/ related bait images btw, this is my only one so far

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>>51884208
Unlimited POWAAAAH

>>51889819

But we don't. We used to, but we haven't made our prisoners do hard labor in a long time.

>>51884208
Fucking what was the point of that betrayal? It's not even an Alliance character who confronts him!