/hhg/ aka Horus Heresy General

Virtues of the Sons/Sins of the Father audiodrama anyone?

>>51836776
Mega is getting shut down, so download everything you can and then put it on google documents or one drive

>>51836803
Like the whole service?

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What's the general opinion on the Leviathan FoC? Seeing as the preliminary design for my Filiketos is pretty much done and I'm STILL waiting for the damn thing to show up, I need to look into how I'm going to use it. Seems like the best way, but I don't know if that would be a massive dick move. I see it as essentially two Baneblades strapped together in terms of rules.

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Still waiting on anon to tell me why fire raptors are considered a suitable replacement for vultarax when shooting flare shielded AV14. I really want to know the thought process.

>>51836803
They can spy on who accesses it though.

>>51836827
He might have mistaken it for the other one.

>>51836799
omg just buy them already

My space dad could beat up your space dad

>>51836799
>>51836827
>>51836853
Well this is off to a great start.

>>51836827
He probably should've said Lightnings, or Avengers, or whatever the good ones are. He was right that it looks like you're taking an allied detachment just to get access to an infamously OP unit. Feels like a 40k list.

And was your list the one with a Leviathan in an Anvillus? They can't fit in those.

>>51836850
2 poor for that.
https://youtu.be/MWxrDk8qLnI?t=2m2s

>>51836853
Isn't the whole heresy the result of the primarchs being deluded in thinking the Emperor was their father when it was actually chaos?

>>51836853
My space brothers could snipe your space dad before he could get close.

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>>51836924
Chaos is best stepdad

>>51836905
Considering you've been asking for a week and and what you want costs £10, I'm really, really sorry you're an unemployed who lives in a third world shithole.

>>51836888
it was, having double checked it's specific exclusion I'm just going to replace it with a DDP.

the main reason for allying for the vultarax is that good turn one anti-armor options are pretty much nonexistant for RG, with the focus on bodies and heavy support slot restriction, while mechanicum allies to solve the problem are still reasonably fluffy (Kiavahr mech guilds) and fill the gap without tracked vehicles.

I could take a sicaran venator, but that relies heavily on penetration roll results, and also does not fit the theme of my army built to date very well. My end goal was a mostly pod/airborne infantry-heavy list.

>>51836944
It should be a TS, or one hanging off the back of the van.

>>51836945
>you've been asking for a week
Strange I started 3 days ago.

>>51836954
The go-to anti-Spartan flyer for Astartes armies is the Primaris-Lightning with kraken penetrators. Saves you all the points you’re spending on other Mechanicum stuff and the embarrassment of being that guy. You could also put five chainfist Termies in the Dreadclaw.

>>51836924
Maybe if MoM was canon, but luckily for everyone it isn't.

>>51836827
I mean, they're not, but they're okay at medium anti-armor because of the Hellstrike missiles and the Reaper Autocannons. The Fire Raptor is great because it's super versatile and very durable, not because it's it's a laser-focused "this unit will die" hard counter like the Primaris-Lightning is.

If you're running a Terminator Deathstar (just a command cataphractii squad and praetor) in a Spartan, which is better- a chaplain or primus Medicae?

I'm doing Iron Hands so they're already very resilient with Cyber-Familiars on characters and -1s to shooting, so a medical will make them basically immune to small-arms fire, while a chaplain will ensure their chainfists utterly destroy anything in their path.

>>51836962
Oh, so that wasn't you that asked for like 4 days inna row last month?, I can only apologise beggar-bro, what with your 3 days on the trot and the memory of those earlier posts, it all merged together in my head.
Perhaps you should go and literally beg on the street to get the money you need? Would probably be quicker.

>>51837007
Spartans are not what concern me, it's glaives,knights, and typhons. all three are present in my local meta and are essentially a hard counter to 90% of the rest of my list. if I thought for a moment I could get away with waiting until turn 2 for a lighting or chainfist terminators to do the job, that would be my preference, but I know it isn't the case. The result is needing either a shock pulse weapon (S Venator) or vultarax to solve the problem, of the two only one actually fits army fluff and I can simply take only 1 vult or none depending on the game size and presence of those LoW.

yes, I realize my local meta is a shitty one when I have to assume typhons and glaives, but at least I get to play

>>51835386
Reposting because I want moar awnsers

>>51837104
Sounds like it could work, you'd lose the traitor special characters and couldn't use all three in a single game, but the option for loyalist elements of the traitor legions exist for a reason.

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>>51837104
>reposting because I want people to agree with me

>>51837104
I agree with you.

It's fine.

>>51837085
Deathstars are usually countered by bogging them down rather than whittling them down with small arms fire. Chaplain. I'd consider Tartaros for that kind of unit.

>>51837097
Thunderhawk ;^)
It’s an interesting problem and list. Send it into Radio Free Isstvan, I’d love to hear their take on it.

>>51837104
Yes, the Custodes seem very forced. I can see Salamanders and Thousand Sons doing stuff together during the Great Crusade.

>>51837104
Look, if you play with people you don't consider actual friends, you might get a raised eyebrow or two when you plop down the new shiny "OP" stuff as an Ally to your own army, it makes you look a bit WAAC-ish.
I presume that's why you want to know, as the fluff for your army, which isn't great, can effectively be anything you want it to be. Almost.

>>51837183
pretty much all the legions did stuff togetehr during the great crusade, but TS post-Nikaea probably didn't have much to do with any other legions apart from Emperors Children and Blood Angels.

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black warder is still wip. But it's taking shape.

im buying another squad, and making a 3 man Hetaeren counts-as squad out of warders. the. It's just a matter of time till based chinaman gets his hands on the Ixion Hale mini, and FW drop Valdor. Then the party starts.

>>51837146
I don't want people to agree with me, I merely wanted more points of view

>>51837226
try doing the gold a little thinner/more coats, it's a little thick with noticable flecking in the photo.

Left face is actually pretty good work, right guy could use some TLC, the shading looks a bit overdone

>>51837226
I really like how you've done the weapons' blades.

>>51837192
Which part of the fluff are bad ? As for the new stuff, only the custodes are in to find a use to the 5 I got from BoP. The addition of TS was planned long before the release of Inferno

>>51837226
I really hope those bolters on the spears fit into the Sagittarum arms. I want my bolter tactical Custodes, not heavy bolter devastator Custodes.

>>51837226
Those are nicely painted but I just hate the custodes models. They are so fat where much of their art has them looking more slender. Plus Valdor looks like a malnourished eastern European.

>>51836924
No, anon, the Heresy is the result of Emprah divorcing Chaos, running off with their kids, and refusing to talk to them about Chaos.

Then years later Lorgar's feeling down and old family friend Erebus gives him Chaos' number and Chaos tries to reconnect with all its kids and make up for not being in their lives.

>>51837226
These are nice.

>>51837085
>which is better- a chaplain or primus Medicae?
Porque no los dos?

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Autocannon+fist or autocannon+missile launcher for a boxnaut talon leader?

>>51837313
I imagine it's because you didn't want to wall of text us, but
>TS join Sallies because they want to find artifacts
Is simplistic and cliched in the extreme, and
>There's Custodes there because there are and they let the TS break Nikea because traitors are worse
is straight-lining through what would actually be a massive fuck-huge complicated situation. I mean, do you really think that the way they've been portrayed so far, the Custodes would let the TS use powers? M8, the Custodians in that fleet would have had all the TS locked up and null-collared the second they joined it, and left them there, no matter what other shit they got into.

>>51837437
Obviously the Custodes keep trying to enforce Nikea, but the Sons keep getting away with it because they're just channeling the power of Prospero.

>>51837467
Your fluff is bad and people will think you are WAACing but I doubt anyone will refuse to play you.

>>51837415
pick a job and kit it for the job, same as any other unit. in this case sounds like it's a light armor hunter and should be autos/missile.

So if I wanted to run a pure sisters of silence list as a glass cannon CC list is it viable? As far as I can see they'd struggle with anti-tank but could be quite a fun list to play with.

>>51837415
I still don't get why boxnoughts must have guns strapped to the arms when on old models and on the FW MkIV ones they're mounted on the torso. Why can't I have a quad autocannon dread with 2 combi-bolters?

>>51837415
Unless it's a cortus dread, I prefer dreads to go full dakka.

But that's just me, and I'm sucker for the versatility that missles carry

>>51837313
5 Custodes joining a small force that isn’t doing anything of great importance.

Lorgar got a small group of Custodes following him around because he was a heretical primarch. A primarch. They were on his goddamn flagship.

This is like sending the SAS or Navy SEALs to drive by grandma’s house at night after reports of burglars in the neighborhood.

>>51837521
I can see it working in smaller games, but it really isn't close to being take-all-comers.

>>51837415
Malchurion (or something) had an autocannon and fist.

Dual autocannons or dual missile launchers are probably better if you go with either of those. You can roll them all together and save time.

>>51837521
They struggle to crack AV14, but against lower armour values their dedicated transport should get good work done.

Also, they have no anti-air whatsoever, short of fortifications blasting away with the transport's TL guns and hoping. Actually, thinking about it, fortifications may be a way to try to fix the AV14 problem, but I can't remember what is actually available.

>>51837500
The only way it could be "improved" is if he never treats the Custodes as Sworn Brothers for the TS or at least their psychic powers.
But even then, he doesn't have to do that, just if he wanted to fluff it like that. The Custodes have a lot of leeway in deciding what's permissible or necessary and what's not.

Other than that it's nothing out of the ordinary, and while it's "snowflaky", that's just because it has a story rather than "these are another subunit of this army at this battle who none of the books specifically talk about".

>>51837529
Biggest problem with boxnoughts is that they don't have an all-purpose gun like the assault cannon in 30k. Like why is it that they could mount one on the contemptor but couldn't on a castaferrum? I'd make a unit of 3 immediately, if I could give them assault cannons (without playing BA.)

>>51837521
Do we have all their rules yet?

I bought all the sisters of silence in my local meta so i can continue to spam psykers. I might as well use them.

>>51837437
>TS join Sallies because they want to find artifacts is simplistic and cliched in the extreme
I won't deny that this is cliche, though I mentionned that this is an exploration fleet, with order from Vulkan to scout and search for any presence of xenos or human outside of the borders of the Imperium, as such a smaller amount of TS joined the fleet, seeing this as a chance of getting knowledge and artifacts without spending too much resources
As for the custodes, there is only a single squad of them within the entire fleet, neither the sallie chapter commander nor the TS brotherhood magister were informed of the edict of nikaea or the burning of prospero, and the tension between the custodes and the TS is extreme, only stopped from coming to blows by the salamander chapter master's threats of thunder hammer to the face if they keep acting lawful stupid

>>51837500
That was not me, refer to this for an actual awnser>>51837681
>>51837467
Kek'd

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>>51837622
>I bought all the sisters of silence in my local meta so i can continue to spam psykers. I might as well use them.

Right, I've got it down to 3000, 2500 and 2000. Also, going to post them in consolidated format other wise they are getting too long on the page.

2000 Points
"Stubbing Your Toe Level Rage"
Model Count: 67
HQ = 300
Kharn the Bloody 190
Gorechild

Galhan Surlak 110

Elites = 60
Legion Apothecary 60
Chainaxe, Augury Scanner, Artificer Armour

Troops = 770
2 X 20 Tactical Marines 240 each
Chainaxes, Power Fist, No Boltguns

2 X 10 Inductii Tactical Marines 140 each
Chainaxes, Power Fist, No Boltguns

Fast Attack = 230
2 X Anvillus Pattern Drop Pod 115 each

Heavy Support = 650
2 X Spartan Assault Tank 325 each
Laser Destroyers, Armoured Ceramite

>>51837681
> an exploration fleet, with order... to scout and search for any presence of xenos or human outside of the borders of the Imperium
So every single expeditionary fleet in the great crusade, ever?

>>51837616
He needs to come up with a way to have the Custodes not imprison the TS on sight and then not kill them if the TS use powers without getting a clear.
This set up of his is actually the fluff for a TS splinter force escaping from Custode-y, but remaining loyalist, with a couple of nice guy Sally allied units.

I'm also reminded of the story where the RG Librarian and the Custodian attached to the RG return home, the Custodian having previously been told to allow the RG to use powers by Corax for reasons too long to go into here.
When they get back to Terra, the RG Librarian fucks up, forgets Librarians are verboten and announces himself to another supervising Custodian over the space telephone.
That Custodian immediately orders the one on the ship to arrest the RG, with lethal force allowed if he resists too much. And the Custodian instantly turns and does (attempts) it. They don't fuck around.

>>51837097
from the sound if it you should just do the ally vultarax squad then. if your meta is that vicious then doing your own allied min/max is hardly going to raise an eyebrow.

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Would pic related be ok for a chainfist and extra armour Cortus? Or would it be too 40k yiff shit?

>>51837707
2500 Points
"Getting Your Car Towed Level Rage"
Model Count: 79
HQ = 450
Kharn the Bloody 190
Gorechild

Galhan Surlak 110

Forgelord /HHG Anon 150
Thunderhammer, Rad Grenades, Nuncio Vox, Augury Scanner, Refractor Field, Cyber Familiar

Elites = 55
Legion Apothecary 55
Chainaxe, Artificier Armour

Troops = 900
2 X 20 Tactical Marines 240 each
Chainaxes, Power Fist, No Boltguns

3 X 10 Inductii Tactical Marines 140 each
Chainaxes, Power Fist, No Boltguns

Fast Attack = 345
3 X Anvillus Pattern Drop Pod 115 each

Heavy Support = 750
2 X Spartan Assault Tank 375 each
Laser Destroyers, Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield, Auxiliary Drive

>>51837681
>any marine threatening a custodes
>custodes compromising
Custodes are pretty black and white, if they thought some thousand sons were defying the edict a threat from a salamanders praetor wouldn't do anything.

>>51837725
I feel the plastic contemptor's static legs really don't give the impression of a cortus. A shooty dread could maybe get away with it, but a cortus should look like it's racing across the battlefield as fast as possible.

>>51837733
3000 Points
"Shitting The Bed Level Rage"
Model Count: 101
HQ = 420
Kharn the Bloody 190
Gorechild

Galhan Surlak 110

Forgelord /HHG Anon 120
Thunderhammer, Rad Grenades, Nuncio Vox

Elites = 120
2 X Legion Apothecary 60 each
Chainaxe, Augury Scanner, Artificer Armour

Troops = 1140
3 X 20 Tactical Marines 240 each
Chainaxes, Power Fist, No Boltguns

3 X 10 Inductii Tactical Marines 140 each
Chainaxes, Power Fist, No Boltguns

Fast Attack = 345
3 X Anvillus Pattern Drop Pod 115 each

Heavy Support = 975
3 X Spartan Assault Tank 325 each
Laser Destroyers, Armoured Ceramite

And now I'm pooped. Was great fun making the lists. Off to find stuff to proxy it with. Maybe 6 bags of mint humbugs, three coffee mugs and three shoe boxes.

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>>51837706
I kinda like the way they look too.

Besides, Nikea was the bomb.

>>51837745
>I feel the plastic contemptor's static legs really don't give the impression of a cortus
Seems perfectly realistic for the discount, cheaply-made dreadnought's legs to just lock up when it's in a static pose.
At least GW seems to think so.

>>51837539
>5 Custodes joining a small force that isn’t doing anything of great importance
They don't have a tribune amongst them though, as for the small force I wanted to have a higher number of sallies into the fleet, but believed that a fleet with more XVIII marines than the garnison of Nocturne was too much

>>51837725
extra armor yes, chainfist no.

Chainfists are chain FISTS for a reason.

>>51837745
...that's a Forge World Contemptor, anon.

>>51837799
Well, then, you've posed it horribly. Sorry.

>>51837681
I know you want to use your 5 man squad, and like, do it, but remember when fluffing that the penitent Lorgar got 5 assigned to him, and Corax - who had just been given the Primarch Project data - got 1. They don't just join random Fleets.

If a Salamander Chapter Master threatened a Custodian over carrying out the standing orders of the Emperor, the Custodians would ignore him at best and lock him up/fuck him up at worst.
In this story >>51837722 the Custodian trying to arrest the Librarian kills an Imperial Fist captain who keeps getting between them because the Custodian is being "lawfully stupid". Then the Custodian goes on about his role without gaf.

The Custodian part needs worked on, any TS player putting them down as allies needs a good story to be quite honest. Yours is just 'they were there for some reason and decided to be Uneasy Allies'.
But like, if you really wanna do it, do it.

>>51837707
2 Spartans is a fuck ton of points. I'd recommend going without transports and throwing in even more bodies. If you want them to be faster, use assault marines. Maybe throw in an outflank javelin or two for your anti tank.

>>51837797
But the Eviscerator is x2 Str. with Armourbane as well.

There's just no other CCW upgrade for the Contemptor.

>>51837812
...I didn't pose anything. I googled for Contemptors with the SW dread axes and shield to have a visual representation of what I'm talking about.

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>>51837768
Agreed, Morty finally got some time to shine

>>51837797
Sx2 AP2 Armourbane is not though.

>>51837713
Yes, exept they went outside of the borders of the current (40k ones) imperium, meaning they're so far away the light of the astronomican is barely discernable.
>>51837738
A single marine would never make a custodes back down, but with an entire chapter at his disposal, even a custodes would think twice before charging in a 1 to 10 ratio melee with terminators

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>>51837797
>FISTS

Man, somebody call FW.

>>51837226
those highlights look like they're out of a kid's colouring book and a=the detail is totally squandered by careless application of the paint. I'd be surprised if someone would pay above $10 for them.

>>51837892
>those highlights look like they're out of a kid's colouring book
That's not really true though.

>I'd be surprised if someone would pay above $10 for them.
Is he planning to sell them? If he isn't, then you seem to be expecting Golden Demon standards in place of tabletop standard.

>>51837823
Corax got like 7-12 Cuckstodes with him during that actually.

I swear Lorgar got more than 5, they were spread within the WB fleet and most of them got slowly killed off, until 5 were left during Istvaan. Or maybe it was 5, I don't remember.

>>51837722
Anyone got the story about the RG librarian to share in epub?

>>51837823
I don't plan on playing with both the custodes and the TS simultaneously, I'll be playing between 1500-1850 pts, so I don't have the points to add and support both without considerably reducing the size of my primary detachement.
And they're here because some SW were ordered to search for any remaining TS, they found those present in the expeditionary fleet, opened fire on the entire fleet believing they were traitors and as a result were promptly destroyed, safe for the squad of custodes and the SW commander who managed to teleport on the sallie capital ship's bridge.
that last part will need a lot of work before it can be refined into something coherent, so don't be too harsh, it's still WIP

Thoughts on the Leviathan FoC? I want to use it to run my Stormbird conversion and possibly some extra flyers/a Knight to use the extra LoW slots, but I hear it's considered a kind of dick move.

>>51838087
It's not a "dick move" if you let your opponent know and respond accordingly, and if your flying whale ends up looking cool, people will be willing to overlook more rules-based unfairness you might be engaging in than if you just took the regular model.

>>51838045
Lorgar actually had a fucking tribune with him, so if we keep in mind the "you can upgrade your shield captain once you've reached 2000pts" rule of FW, there was definitely more than 5 custodes watching over the Word bearers

>>51838045
Ah, I completely mis-remembered the number Corax got! Thanks for the correction.

>>51838087
It’s considered a dick move to take a Warlord in a 3,000 point battle.

The Stormbird isn’t very intimidating; it’s fluffy and overcosted, so very few people will have a problem with it.

>>51837823
>the Custodian trying to arrest the Librarian kills an Imperial Fist captain
And Space Wolves say they're the Worfs of 30k!

I rolled some dice to test who would win, an IF captain or a Hetaeron guard, and wouldn't you know it the IF killed him in one turn without a scratch.

>>51838123
Tabletop rules rarely reflect the fluff, if it was a Tribune, he could have easily slapped down Lorgar and half his Legion, sometimes commanders will go on missions accompanied by a small taskforce, the restriction is to stop you taking a Tribune at low points I guess.

>>51838123
They were scattered throughout the fleet, he got more than 5 total, but one squad was with him the whole time.
The guy just needs to come up with a reason to have Custodians attached to his army. Sent to bring back the TS is not a huuuge stretch, but from there we're back to him then needing a reason to allow them to break Nikea.
We've seen the Primarchs authorise that, and the Custodians could theoretically also, they just need a really could reason as no-one there organically has one.

>>51838165
>>51838172
Fluff makes characters stronger or weaker as they need to be depending on the plot.

Remember when an unarmed WE sergeant killed a Custodian?

>>51838023
>golden demon standards

Using your paints in thin layers correctly is just common sense and requires no kill whatsoever: thick paint is a clear indication of a rushed job due to impatience or fundamental retardation. Why wouldn't you paint to the best of your ability when all it requires is some water?

>>51838219
>Why wouldn't you paint to the best of your ability
Why are you assuming that people who aren't knight anon aren't?

>>51838209
Don't remind me of anything from that fucking book. Pls no.

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>>51838123
Aquillon was a Prefect, not a Tribune. If I get it right, prefects are like captains while the tribunes are the top notch senior captains.

It's safe to assume that Corax got a Prefect as well.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adeptus_Custodes#Known_Custodes

>>51837707
Don't take laser destroyers. Quad las doesn't force the other to snap shoot and you get more shots

>>51837827
Tried running foot slogging Zerkers back in the day (3e/4e/5e).

>rough terrain = fucked
>pie plates = fucked
>opponent running skimmers with vectored engines and shit = double fucked
>dark elder Talos = fucked
>dreadnought = fucked
>tau battlesuits = superfucked

But thanks for the tip, I'll have a look at the Kharbidis and the Storm Talon.

>>51837875
In first heretic one custodes stands up to a primarch and 5/6 praetor and centurion equivalents plus a load of cultists. Something tells me that being outnumbered and in a hopeless situation doesn't bother custodes much.

>>51838258
IIRC in MoM prefects are above tribunes, the custodes in the book was promoted prefect and had to take command of the war in the webway due to the death of his predecessor

>>51838209
That was a cripple Custodian tho.

Ordo Reductor Assault List 3k
Matrix of Ruin FOC

HQ:

+Archmagos Reductor: archmagos, Abeyant, cyber familiar, paragon blade, power fist, djinn skein, 2 x cyber-occularis, rad grenades, power fist. 305
+Magos Dominus: mastercrafted photon thruster, machinator array. 135

TROOPS:
+9 Thallax: 3 x photon thrusters, destructor. 465
+6 Thallax: 2 x phased plasma fusils. 275
+2 Castellax: 2 x darkfire cannons, enhanced tartgetting array. 280
+17 Tech Thralls: Heavy chainblades, carapace armour, revenant alchemistry, rite of pure thought. Inside Triaros: 2 x hunter killer missiles. 281
+20 Secutarii Peltasts. Kinetic Hammershots Rounds. Alpha with omniscope and refractor field. Inside Triaros: 2 x hunter killer missiles. 455

FAST ATTACK:
+Primaris Lightning: 6 kraken penetrators, battle servitor control, ground tracking auguries. 235

HEAVY SUPPORT:
+Krios Tank 125
+Krios Tank 125
+Krios Venator 150
+Krios Venator 150

Archmagos goes in the Triaros with the tech thralls.

>>51838321
I just need to write them as being in a situation similar to agron's in that battle where he was defeated by leman russ's tactics : no matter how good you are in close combat, it doesn't matter much when you're in the sight and range of 100 terminators

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>>51838232
>Why are you assuming that people who aren't knight anon aren't?

>>51838329
You got it backwards, there were only three Tribunes, Kadai, Jasac and Ra, and those lads were the highest ranked custodes in the Webway war.

Anyways, MoM mentions them fighting with twin Meridian Swords, what would be a good way of representing that on a model? Grey Knight swords maybe?

>>51837890
No wonder these guys released Inferno in the current state

>>51838120
>>51838135

OK, excellent. Obviously not turning up to a game with a 2ft long, 1075 pt w/ Skyshield model without warning my opponent, especially since transporting it will be a tad difficult, haven't worked out how to put landing legs on it that wouldn't crumple the gondola. Might just need to make some custom foam and transport it on stand.

Ruleswise it's basically two Baneblades strapped together, in points, toughness and armament. Shouldn't be too much of a problem on the table, it's just an unkillable brick for a while.

>>51837725
Jesus Christ, what's wrong with the blue? Did you drybrush it with your fingers?

>>51838477
Why don't you ask the person who posted it originally:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/2irxhv/space_wolves_venerable_dreadnought_complete_i/

>>51836776
What about Destroyer anon? He who brought us the LA exploitable. Who I think was also a beakie.

>>51838461
suggestion: make a purpose-built equivalent of the mar-alpha landing pad. that's what a stormbird uses to start the game on, and you can put some kind of support frame at the front and rear to hold it in place as they do for real airships, which with some foam to go over the top would make an easier to carry pair.

>>51838429
Damnation, I won't use what I can recall of MoM anymore and can't suffer the pain of reading that shit again. Fuck Bowden for making custodes even worse than the fucking worst bearers. And grey knight swords might be too small compared to the size of the custodes models

>>51838537
Hey, good idea. I need a Skyshield for it anyway, so I guess it'll probably be padded wood, I know a carpenter who can probably knock something a little more effective than plastic up. Toss on some rivets, or model it like bone, since it is a Dark Biologis ship anyway. May yoinks a few ideas from the Edge Chronicles series and biopunk them up a bit. Good books, those.

>>51838369
too many thallax, not enough secutarii

also why are you even taking castellax, you have krios for that. if you want castellax OR isn't the list for you.

it's stupid but rad carbines math out to be exactly the same against marines as kinetic hammershot, but cost nothing instead of 3ppm. they're better against anything that's not a marine, too. you get the shroud shot and 6" of extra range, but I don't think that's worth 60 points on the unit.

take a secutarii axiarch instead of the magos dominus, he only exists to buff the castellax that shouldn't exist in matrix of ruin whereas an axiarch gives secutarii one of four very good buffs

the primaris lightning overlaps in role with the venators and isn't great at anti-air since firing krakens at a flier is going to feel like a waste. you're probably better off with something else. vultarax are gods and don't really need controller support, and the avenger is also underrated and versatile. vultarax is the better choice but you run the risk of making a really OP list with them and OR tank spam.

basically, you need to completely rethink how you're doing your troops slots. the heavy support is fine but honestly pretty overkill and people are going to get frustrated by it. maybe consider an artillery tank for some variety. i'd build the list completely differently, but i've posted my take on secutarii OR a few times now so I'm not gonna keep spamming it.

>>51838606
Some good points, thanks. I'll take another look at the list

Sanguinary Guard are armed with blades of perdition.

(Y/N)?

>>51838826
Nah, one per five and a sergeant option.

>>51838826
Nope, the blades were a mistake and are a prime example of how power creep fuck things up

>>51838826
>implying they won't have MC paragon blades
>and wrist mounted heavy flamers

>>51838317
>dark eldar
>tau

U wot. Kharybdis is a good shot though, I use it a lot although I'm going to be dropping it from some lists to add more assault marines. Cheaper than a spartan and guaranteed turn 2 assault

>>51838854
Eh, they seem more like a side-grade to a paragon blade. They should be 25 points, but they aren't that bad.

>>51838826
Nerf them to Custodian Spear-tier and that's a deal. Otherwise one to the sergeant, knock-off forms to the rest of them.

>>51838873
>Option to buy heavy flamer instead
>Can swap for wrist mounted assault cannons

>>51838894
They're actually better than parangon blades due to the double-wound rule

>>51838965
yeah, but being two handed, and lacking the +1 strike, as well as murderous strike makes then slightly weaker IMO

>>51838889
did you even read what that anon said?
>>Zerkers back in the day (3e/4e/5e).
>>Back in the day (3e/4e/5e)
yea what a surprise he was playing with his WE's from the future against 40k xenos :^)

>>51839020
And so those things won't affect how he runs things now, so they aren't even worth considering

>>51838996
Murderous strike is a bad joke, rolling a 6 then hoping that the enemy roll a 2 or 1 for his invuln isn't enough, -1 attack doesn't matter when you get master crafted for free, especially if you double the wound count. The fact that this weapon exist and is available to fucking centurions is bad enough, pa2 at initiative is a rarity for good reason.

>>51838123
>>51838258
Is that the guy who used that huge two-handed spear? I want to read about him.
First Heretic, right?

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House Hawkshroud would look good amongst good and red, yeah?

I feel like the yellow is very Terran and glorious.

>>51837226
>Thiccstodes.
Eugh.

>>51837725
>Drybrushing smooth panels.
Disgusting.

>>51838023
>Tabletop standard means thicc.
Pleb-tier opinion. Don't try to push your tumblr beauty standards on wargaming.

>>51838516
>reddit
Gtfo.

>>51839086
First Heretic yep.

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>>51839216

>>51839216
>Gtfo.

I can't help it if the image search led there. Why don't you go be mad over nothing somewhere else?

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What was Cadia like around the time of the heresy? As well, if it was always threatened by Chaos how did the Imperium keep it a secret?
Did they provide tithe to the Auxilia at that time?
Need it for a Deathwatch game. Any interesting Auxilia regiments I could have fighting alongside the players?

>>51839058
you are saying that all enemies get a 3++, which is far from the case (only 2 legions get it, along with mechnicum and custodes), and the ID helps with monsters, and 2/3 wound infantry. you can have a MC relic blade for a few more points.
but i agree it shoudelnt be available to centurions, it seems weird. however its ont the only at I ap 2 weapon: ultra's get a whole unit with them

>>51839194
If you're playing Siege of Terra, House Taranis is what you want.

>>51839292
>What was Cadia like around the time of the heresy?
Read the Lorgar books.
It was found by the Word Bearers as a Chaos-worshipping feral world.

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>>51839216
>being this much of a dickhead
>"gtfo"

>>51839292
Basically Davin II: Shamans Boogaloo. Low technology level, lots of chaos worshippers.

>>51839292
In the first Heretic book they described Cadia as a primitive world still in its tribal age, The Word Bearers found it when they went on a pilgrimage or something like that

>>51839302

Taranis was wiped out on Mars though. Only two knights survived the Siege of the Magma City.

>>51839297
more than two:

IF storm shields
SAL dragonscale on cataphractii
IH cyber familiar on cata
Mechanicum

also pretty much any forge lord in cataphractii, but UM deserve special mention since thier forge lords can take legatine axes.

>>51839297
>help against 2-3 wound infantry
Give me a single infantry unit that have 3 wound per model whithout belonging to the mechanicus or custodes (and charonite ogryns). Rules and units in 30k should be balanced with the fact that they'll face astartes most of the time

>>51839335
Didn't Cadia play a part in the downfall of the WB? And wasn't the planet purged and later resettled?

>>51839364
Plus thousand sons and blackshields.

>>51839463
Give me a single infantry unit that have 2 wound per model that aren't [every 2 wound unit], rules and units in 30k should be balanced with the fact that they'll face 1 wound models most of the time.

>>51839292
Bunch of chaos worshipping cavemen that were purged by the Word Bearers.

>>51839476
Yeah the caidan cultists summoned the herald of chaos who told Lorgar all about the gods and convinced him to fuck up the galaxy for the next 10,000 years.

Then he killed all the cultists to cover his tracks.

>>51839364
Ahh yeah, missed IH, but i mentioned mechnicum. still the vast majority cant take it, and not all characters are preators
>>51839463
i typed out a response, but basically this
>>51839515

>>51839537
>yeah, so aquillon, what happened was a load of savages wielding clubs, spears, and their own shit, managed to kill several of my astartes, including a chapter master, and one of your custodes. With me, a frikkin' primarch, there.
>sounds legit lorgar
Still don't know how they got away with that.

>>51836803
source?

>>51839576
"There were evil xenos there but we killed them".
Plus the fact that WBs died as well makes it more believable.

>>51839576
Have you seen what a zealot-rending levy squad can do? Shit is horrifying.

>>51839576
To be fair, the Primarch in question was Lorgar, he nearly fucked up NOT killing Guilliman that one time.

>>51839614
I just found that out when I ran a proxy for my MaC allied detatchment with my friend's Renegades against the Death Guard he's just got. Killed about 1000 points of Marines with 100 dudes and two Russes. Lucky Demolisher shot on the Volkite squad helped a lot, though.

>>51839515
>>51839548
I didn't mentionned the 2w terminators that at least 5 legions got so far,and of fucking course you should have weapons that can deal efficiently with a specific enemy in mind, the problem with the perdition blade is that it's too good for it's price when compared against a paragon blade

>>51837738
Aren't Custodes actually pretty individualistic? With some of them not really caring much about psykers?

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Think I'm over the novel reading block I've had after a particularly bad streak of early minor-legion books, non-legion books, and non-event books.
About to start the Calth series and then it's home straight through my favourite legions.

>>51839984
Maybe they're individualistic, but the one thing all Custodes will care about above all else is what the Emperor says. If the big guy says no psykers, they're going to follow his word.

Would I be autistic to try and give all of my tiny men ammo pouches and grenades?

I already have chains words and pistols, and I want them to look heavily laden with gear like I imagine Death Guard should be, but I'm running out of room on their belts and it's starting to look hard to paint

>>51840017
Some books aren't about astartes or any thing good or anything that influences other stuff. I've only read the books for things and legions I'm interested in. You can skip things like battle for the abyss, nemesis, outcast dead etc

>>51840075
That's fine man. I personally don't because looking tacticool and prepared makes me think I'm playing Alpha Legion or Iron Warriors

>>51840090
Skip anything with the XVIII too

>>51840075
If. You can fit everything on there without it looking stupid and cluttered then go ahead. If you are short on space then maybe give every other guy grenades or a pouch.

>>51840075

I try to ensure all my Marines have ammo punches and pistols at least. I really hate marines with guns but no ammo pouches or extra magazines on them. Do they expect to fight a whole battle with just 30 rounds?

>>51840141
Where do you normally put the extra mags?

I didn't think ahead and I glued the chainswords across the back of their belts, and the pistols are either on the right hip or left leg, depending on how much room I had.

>>51840141
I tried that (I had all manner of bits lined up, but after fitting close combat weapons and pistols on my tacticals, there really wasn't any good places to fit pouches.

I did put some Sternguard ammo assortments on my Seekers.

>>51840141
>Do they expect to fight a whole battle with just 30 rounds?
I've always imagined marines shoot in 1, 2, or 3 bursts to conserve ammo, and meme every shot count.
Kind of like they do in DoW2.
Bolt rounds are difficult to make, and they can only carry so many.

>>51840090
>You can skip things like battle for the abyss, nemesis, outcast dead
I'm already past that, sadly.

>>51840141
Do we even know how many rounds are in a typical magazine? Also some legions aren't bothered with range warfare or use psykers. Not to mention in the heresy there'd be the standard issue mags litering the ground along with corpses.

>>51840238
20-30

>>51840112
Yeah, even if you like the salamanders all of their books are shit. Vulkan lives has some passable scenes in it if you are desperate.

>>51840141
>Do they expect to fight a whole battle with just 30 rounds?
>6x Shooting Phase in rapid fire range=12 Shots
>6x Overwatch in rapid fire range=12 Shots
So, yes, they expect to fight a whole battle with just 30 rounds.

>>51840238
20-30, depending on the pattern

>>51840141
Someone post the image with the raven gard marine's description of the battle at Istvan V in the massacre black book, I think he and his squad were short on ammo 7 minutes after his landing

>>51840245
As a salamander fan, I can only wish that kyme will take the same door as laurie and leave room for competent authors

>>51840238
By 3e rulebook, straight magazines hold 20-25, curved hold 30 and drums hold 40-50.

>>51840296
It's on my laptop, but yeah, depleted after a few minutes, then resorted to knife fighting, then was overrun by mortals, punched open a few skulls with his bare gauntlets and was saved by the IH.
Then he realized it had been 7 min, meaning he ran out of ammo even earlier.

Having looked the Caestus Assault Ram's rules I noticed that yes you can ram while zooming. And that this could be used to knock out a skyfire+interceptor dread before it has a chance to fire (or at least shake/stun it).

Atomantic shielding doesn't do squat against ramming hits either for that matter.

Extra points if you are running Dynat and manage to ram something in the enemy's deployment zone for a total of +2 on the vehicle damage table.

And the whole idea of having a zooming flyer come screaming out of the sky and just ram the hell out of a donut dread warms my ickle heart.

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>>51840343
Even modern troops in a heavy close-assault firefight can go through a standard battle load of 90-180 rounds in less than 10 minutes.

There was also complication from the fact that the loyalists had to expend significantly more ammunition for effect than the traitors did, see image.

>>51840371
Important thing you may be missing:
Deepstriking flyers can't move the turn they deepstrike, meaning a ram has to come all the way from your deployment zone. Measure the distance.
Also, Dynat's +1 to Damage only affects infantry and Dreads in the enemy's deployment zone, so it wouldn't affect the Caestus itself, but it would help the combi-metas it's embarked terminators are carrying.

Wait, is Valdor dead? In the Inferno?

Wait, Valdor dies at the Inferno?

>>51840444
Yeah man, Phosis T'Kar kills him.

>>51839576
They could say that they had xenos allies. That's what everyone else thought daemons were. Then they wiped out the population for consorting with xenos.

>>51840422
if you fish for the right warlord trait or have a way to give the CAR infiltrate you can outflank it and come in diagonally for maximum movement, so it is possible, and is actually pretty damn hilarious.

>>51840495
I thought Valdor was the Custodian that attacked Horus on the Vengeful Spirit.

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>>51840343

>>51840422
Good catch on the Dynat thing, and yes I was working on the assumption that you need to enter from your own edge but a Caestus still has 36 inches to work with while zooming. 4/6 of the deployment maps in the AoD army list book gives a potential for reaching the enemy's deployment zone with those 36 inches.

Otherwise you could just ram some random tank and then machine spirit the melta at whatever survived.

>>51839668
>MaC
>Renegades
I must be getting old. Can't keep up with the lingo.

>>51840075
It's autistic in the best possible way. It fits DG really well.

>>51840528
No, that was a nameless Custodian. Or an Imperial Army soldier who was may have been Ollanius Pius, depending on the story. But Valdor appears in novels set during the Heresy, i.e. after Prospero...

>>51840495
BL btfo'd again

>>51840495
What, no.

>>51840652
>No, that was a nameless Custodian.
>nameless
No, the emperor mentions his name when he dies. I don't remember what it was, but he definitely had one.

>Or an Imperial Army soldier who was may have been Ollanius Pius
No, that doesn't happen on the vengeful spirit. Doesn't even happen in the attack on Horus's sanctuary period. That's always been an imperial fists/custodes affair.

imperial army is from the attack on the emperor's sanctuary

>>51840652
Mac - Militia and Cults, I was using the Provenances that gave 2 50 man blobs Rending, Fear and Zealot, they just chewed through them. I was trading better than 1-1 in melee too, Rending does a pretty good job of chewing away the Marine's stat advantages.

Renegades are the 40k version, similar playstyle. Don't have my Ghoul Hordes ready yet, so he let me use his hundreds of dudes as Cults so we could practice.

>>51840617
tbf he says they were firing full auto, even with a theoretically slow cyclic rate of a weapon like a bolter, his mag could've emptied in something like ten seconds if they were just shooting off their hot loads into EC's faces.

>>51840421
Awesome. It is no secret Vengeance rounds were developed from Banestrike ammo, but let it be remembered all legions had access to it on Istvaan V, not just the AL and the SoH.
>>51840502
Units with either Infiltrate or Scout would be able to outflank the Caestus. I think.

I see a lot of lists on here with cyber familiars, what are you guys using to model them?
Also about the grenade attachments they give you, I've always found annoying because even from Rogue Trader days all the normal grenades have been the size of a pound coin and dispensed from a tube like an electronic coin holder not half head sized brick grenades

>>51840739
>herewegoagain.jpg

Let's think positive, folks. You shouldn't use a dead guy in fluffy list, right? So one more reason to use Tribune.

>>51840739
Kek. Valdor stepped down as a Lord of Terra to protect the enthroned Emperor, nigger-kun

>>51840739
>No, that doesn't happen on the vengeful spirit.

If you wanna be anal, neither does the Fist Terminator/Terminators one happen on the Vengeful Spirit, since the ship wasn't named in either telling.

>Doesn't even happen in the attack on Horus's sanctuary period.

Yes it does.

>>51840528
Even Constantin Valdor, most trusted of the Emperor's Custodes, discovered deep in his heart that he always wanted to be an Imperial Fist Terminator.

Redid some of the mathhammer for the Inferno characters more carefully, did a ranking for the "Single Combat in a Vaccum" stuff. Magnus gets everything on Biomancy on him, minus Life Leech, and Precog, and opponent is Enfeebled.

Tied first is Tribune, Russ and Scoria. They each win one, lose one between them - Russ beats Tribune and dies to Scoria, Scoria beats Russ and dies to Tribune, Tribune beats Scoria but not Russ, so a rock-paper-scissors top 3. Realistically, wait till the game ends then flip a coin, they won't be dead until past then.

Next comes Magnus, who can beat down Horus with sheer number of attacks before Disabling Strike does much thanks to Iron Arm, and Horus can't outsmack him with the mace.

Then Horus, then the usual hierarchy with Valdor dropped in at the bottom.

>>51840839
They did steal the Solarite gauntlets from the Fists.

>>51840764
I think one of the DG special characters died on Isstvan, but is still usable.

But if Valdor died on Prospero, does that mean all the fluff where he's weighing in on the Heresy is now retconned? You can't really be part of the Heresy if you're dead before it really even started.

Where's Goldie to tell me what to think?

>>51841064
Until I see a photo of the page I'm still dubious about this valdor thing. That's the simplest explanation: anon is lying.
>friendly reminder that someone on 4chan started the rumour that one of the races in AOS would be called "nigmos" and motherfuckers believed it

>>51841064
>>51840674
>>51840660
>>51840528
>>51840483
This is 4chan, remember? Trolls. Valdor is fine.

>>51840844
You fucked up somewhere mate, magnus is t9 with iron arm and if russ is enfeebled then he can't even wound him with his bullshit sword and only wound him on a 6+ with the axe, in no way magnus could lose to that, especially since he have +3a thanks to warp speed

Post yfw AL are better psykers than WB now.

>>51840254
That would explain why they can't shoot the turn after FotL, so that they never shot more than 30 shots.

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>>51841146

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>>51841146
>ALfags fw

>>51841064
I doubt Valdor would die to Phosis T'kar post flesh change but his role in the heresy is fairly small after Prospero.

>>51841109
>>51841116
Hey, I wasn't trolling, I was referencing a joke from earlier! So what if I have no life and read this entire general every single time.

>>51838826
I hope they get better blades than in 40k.
Master-crafted power sword/axe two-handed "much relic"

>>51840946
No, it's a Solerite Gauntlet. It's entirely different and not like the ones Astartes get because muh Emprah said so!

>>51841126
Point, I didn't resolve him against the Big Three after he got his shit pushed in by Scoria's silly damage output. Give me a minute to see if he upsets the rankings and breaks the tie. The interesting thing ab thrse fights is the specific skills of the characters start to influence wins, not just raw power. Tribune has the durability to just tank Scoria's flood of wounds, but struggles against Russ due to low T making him susceptible to the Sever Life. Scoria beats Magnus due to ignoring his high toughness and Enfeeble l, as well as most of the damage buffs being overkill and not affecting actual roll requirements much
This tier of duelling actually requires personal tactics, which is cool in a way.

>>51841109
After Seraphon anything was possible.
>friendly reminder that someone in GW decided that one of the races in AOS would be named after a furry tickle porn artist

Where current BL Heresy ending is now going?
>Emprah didn't love Primarchs
>Superperpetual Ollanus with blade to kill a god is going to Terra
>cabal
I bet that Emps is going to get rekt by Horus and then Ollanus Pesson out of nowhere stab Horus with murderknife.

>>51841260
>"Yes yes, veri gud, finest kvality on Terra. Genuine Solerite Gauntle, best on the market. You buy two and I give you 50% off on our Vorkite veapons. Top kvality. Not that Mars crap."

Seems legit.

>>51841146
Is it surprising? We already Gal Vorbaked better than WB.

>>51840946
Pfff I bet it was backwards

>>51840946
Who themselves stole it from the salamanders

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>>51841308
>>friendly reminder that someone in GW decided that one of the races in AOS would be named after a furry tickle porn artist
Wat

>>51841315
All of these accounts are false.

>>51838889
>>51839020
>>51839031
Dear Anons, excuse my childhood nightmare flashbacks, I would like to present to you:

2500 Points
"I Have No Ass & I Must Shit"
Model Count: 84
HQ = 450
Kharn the Bloody 190
Gorechild

Galhan Surlak 110

Forgelord /HHG Anon 150
Thunderhammer, Rad Grenades, Nuncio Vox, Augury Scanner, Refractor Field, Cyber Familiar

Elites = 205
2x Legion Apothecary 140
Power Weapon, Artificier Armour, Augury Scanner

Legion Apothecary 65
Power Weapon, Artificier Armour

Troops = 900
2 X 18 Tactical Marines 220 each
Chainaxes, Power Fist, No Boltguns
2 X 19 Tactical Marines 230 each
Chainaxes, Power Fist, No Boltguns

Fast Attack = 345
3 X Storm Eagle Gunship 235each
Extra Armour, Ceramite Plating

Heavy Support = 235
Kharbidis Assault Claw 235

The reason there are no Inductii is because they're not scoring. Which is a shame. Instead, I hope to use Extortation of Butchery as long as I don't wipe the enemy in my turn.

>>51841268
How did you choose between which of Russ' weapons to use, the sword of balenight wants to cause one wound, but the rest of his attack should be made with the axe (2+ beats 4+ rerolling).
Unless the sword causes fewer than 1 wound even with every attack, then just ignore me.

Can someone explain to me how the hell a guy who didn't even have a background fluff or character can just rape freaking Primarchs in CC? If it was Kelbor Hal I could understand but who the hell is this guy

>>51841356
*Fast Attack = 705

>>51837020
The Vengeful Spirit book says the same thing though

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>2nd only to motherfucking Ahzek Ahriman in psychic sweetness
>Threw up a kine shield so sweet it told ensorcelled Eldar Titans to fuck off and try again next week
>Literally saved the life of Magnus the Red
>Boss Daddy of all telekinetic bros
>Considered a Cool Dude by Abaddon
>Helped save the life of an innocent woman because having huge TK balls doesn't mean you have to be an asshole
>Backed Ahriman up like a true bro
>Actually disappointed that killing Custodians was so easy, golden boys had shit to say about it
>Sniped the heads off Sisters of Silence like he was a marine with 300 confirmed kills
>Would've actually killed Valdor if the changer of ways hadn't fucked with his Perils roll
>Rekt so much face that the Thousand Sons named one of their Planet Scourer ships after him

Truly he was too good for this world.

>>51841268
If we go for personal tactics, magnus might as well go for divination (precog) or telepathy (invisivility), since if everyone's at their best, magnus could actually take the best set of power needed against scoria.

>>51841356
I'd try to find the points for a damocles rhino to hide in a corner like a bitch. 3/4 of your army is only charging turn 3 at the earliest, you really don't want to be failing those reserve rolls and getting them into combat even later.

Why do your apothecaries have augery scanners, out of interest?

>>51841380
I mean, against Scoria, the sword wounds the tribune better anyway.
>>51841390
It's quite simple, the vordian sceptre causes d3 AP2 wounds per hit, which don't allow FNP or IWND.
That's how.

>>51841390
>implying a pimped out regular character has never fucked named characaters before

I remember when named characters were just some fluff shit you threw into fluffy armies, not a general purpose beat stick everyone took regardless of what their army was.

>>51841419
>>Considered a Cool Dude by Abaddon
Source?

is anyone backing up all of the codexes and shit? If Mega really is shutting down we need to find a new filesharing site right now.

>>51841390
The vodian sceptre is the most OP weapon to ever grace the imperium, someone give that shit to angron, so that he can once again be relevant in duels against other primarch

>>51841419
F

RIP in peace Brosis Toker.

>>51841419
phosis best captain

>>51841454
I suggest Discord.

>>51841446
It's hardly fluffy for the Numbered Mistakes to get ripped apart without ceremony by a Magos.

>>51841452
There's a flashback to Ullanor Triumph where the TS commanders bump into the Mournival and Abaddon and Sejanus are all like 'My nig, what's up bro?'
T'Kar had a secondment with them and they all apparently liked each other.
It might be in ATS or in one of those wee shorts that McNeil did.

>>51841446
>t. Oldfag

don't worry, I'm right there with you. to me special characters were always more interesting as "if you want to play with dude from the fluff, here he is" with maybe an army bonus of some kind or a minor fluff effect. Old yarrick comes to mind.

nowadays the "special characters are where the army changing rules are" has largely killed the use of generics/'your dudes' in 40k, and the same is starting to show in 30k (though thankfully nowhere near as much)

>>51841484
im in the discord but i dont see your point

>>51841486
Correct.

He'd have to be as big and densely packed with killiness as a Leviathan for it to make sense.

>>51841489
Well then, looks like I'll be adding TS to my LW, this pleases me

>>51841492
The warp cult and imperial militia red book had a good idea with the different provenances

>>51841516
the funny thing is that was almost a direct rip of the doctrines system from the old 3rd ed IG book.

I miss that book so damn much.

>>51841489
>>51841511
A Thousand Sons it is

>>51841492
It didn't kill it, it just mean your Howling Griffons were led by Carneus Malgar and Terias Tolion. And the likes of Pask were just a one per army upgrades.

>>51841516
It's a half baked idea, since they're nowhere near as varied as they could be. Kinda like the militia in general.

where are my proper SPG basilisks, FW

>>51841419

Phosis was literally the best thing in ATS, which is arguably the best HH novel.

>>51841505
Leviathans were a mistake, just like cortuses, flare shields and praesidium shields.

>>51841492
I liked the development of characters from nobodies to somebodies GW did back in the day, like the generic BA captain becoming Tycho, the DA characters from Piscina etc.
But then it just seemed to spiral. Herohammer rules of the time didn't help.
It's nice to have rules for fluff characters though, really nice. It just seems that in order to represent their heroics on the page, they over-egg it sometimes in the crunch.

>>51841529
Except Doctrines themselves didn't cost anything nor required a specific model to be present, they usually had a point cost per unit upgraded. And apart from a few very useful ones (Drop Troops, Grenadiers), they were just fluffy stuff. Provenances actually provide army wide bonuses (which makes them very useless for small armies, because dropping 150pts. on some upgrades in a 500pts. detachment isn't very economic) but does have some bonuses that can be quite effective or change the makeup of the army dramatically.

>>51841380
Against any of these guys the sword does less than or exactly one wound per round, so there's no spare attacks to use on the axe, which means it does less damage. That's Russ's top output, I'm afraid. He's not actually very damaging, it's pretty much entirely the armour that allows him to win challenges.

>>51841429

We know that he can win with invisibility, he literally cannot be hit in close combat, so he'll never lose. Hence that's boring unless Kelbor Hal or the Khan or something has a Cognis melee weapon somehow.

So he gets a shit load of buffs, weakens his enemy and rerolls hits, which is enough to show off his psychic prowess (and unlikely he can sustain for the whole duel, but that's basically impossible to factor in).

>>51841390

That's his job. He beats faces, nothing else. I suspect he was designed mostly so Primarch spammers would have to change tactics from the Spartan Deathstar, it didn't work.

>>51841486

How so? It's not without ceremony, they're mostly hard and long fights. They're not literally gods, they get injured and make mistakes, and a Chaos Archmagos with what is almost certainly a Necron tech-sceptre and probably more life experience than said Primarchs is certainly a worthy opponent.
I kind of want a book with him in, I imagine him as affably evil and such.

>>51841492
Yeah, although I was never there for that paradigm, I came to 30k expecting somewhat less of that, but it's still here. Personally I use the rules to counts-as my army some interesting leaders, the Archimandrite uses Sataraels rules frequently. Not had the cause to use Scoria yet, but judging by their tendency to run Primarchs into Myrmidons it'll be effective once I get around to making him a suitable model.

>>51841563
Anyone wanting to say fuck it to the timeline and make the popular choice of an ML3 Raptora Praetor could do worse than base it on T'Kar.

I'm just a little sad that my guys are based on Ahriman's cabal and Best Captain is too important to be rolling with them. Or you know, dead.

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>every primarch has a certain strength/advantage for military purposes
>make a primarch who's strength is faith/devotion when you're planning to abolish religion

What was the Emps thinking with Lorgar?

>>51841601
Okay so until the invisibility is faq'd away magnus would use biomancy against everybody and divination with precognition against scoria ?

>>51841668
He was meant to be the Emperor's Crusader, Emprah Vulting the Imperial Truth through the galaxy.
And then he was kidnapped by chaos and sent to live with a priest. The rest is history.

>>51841668
I don't know if the religion thing was part of his plan (probably according to Goldberg), but it was theorised in one of the books that his gene-seed resulted in some kind of genetic predisposition to devotion in his astartes.
So if you take away his religious upbringing, his men basically follow orders without thinking about them too hard. Bang, you've got a super-obedient military force.

>>51841682
>invisibility is faq'd away
As in you still hit magnus on a 6? You still choose invis because the whole unit benefits from it, they punch out whoevers bodyguard with fists then beat on the primary target alongside magnus.

Until invisibility is removed from the game it is still the best. The answers is invis 100% of the time.

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>>51841655

That i was planning on doing anyways

>>51841705
So Lorgar was supposed to be the Sam Harris of 30k?

>>51841721
Fucking sweet. I'd dig seeing your model when he's done.

>>51841730
Remember how Dorn is the one of the primarchs that pursue the Great Crusade with the greatest zeal?
Lorgar was meant to surpass that.

>>51841682
Probably something along those lines if you wanted to tailor your whole strategy to killing him, which obviously you do in a duel. He gets his Feel No Pain back, though, and Magnus is down to 4A, so it'll be close either way. I'll do the maths when I have a spare minute tomorrow.

>>51841719
As in he can no longer take telepathy, but the fuckwits of FW won't let anything bad happend to fagnus

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>>51841769
>Lorgar manages to be the complete opposite of what is expected and is slower than practically all the other primarchs as he spends most of the crusades building temples to the Emperor and making the conquered humans worship the Emps

>>51841668
After Monarchia WB just destroy all idols and objects of worship. They fought witch fanatical zeal. Then chaos.

>>51841777
Since magnus will only cast precognition, I think he could cast force alongside and as such making any fpn useless

>>51841719
SoS ignore invisibility, and no one is going to face down Magnus without some quiet girls.

>>51841486
Why, they get ripped apart by a nameless Custodes HQ anyway?

>>51841806
Won't matter. If the Magnus player is smart, telepathy will be rolled on the second praetor or librarian tagged along in the detachment. Magnus doesn't get to do his D trick, just wasting time if he goes telepathy fishing.

He should go dipping into pyro while maining in biomancy.

>>51841766

oh don't expect too much, i'm terrible with greenstuff, so it will be a simple kitbash using 30K parts, some of the new Ksons stuff and some Tomb kings stuff for the most part.

>>51840495
You got it backwards, he dies to Valdor.

Valdor goes on to become a high lord of Terra after the heresy.

>>51841921
No he doesn't, he steps down as Captain-General to become a companion.

>>51841917
That still sounds great man. I've been doing similar things, finished my Ctesias today. Well, finished-ish.
>>51841921
Yeah, it was just a joke based on an earlier post.

>>51841668
Making the most fedora tipping of all atheists.

He didn't count on him being raised to become a fedora tipping theist.

Checkmate, Imperator.

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>>51841492
>though thankfully nowhere near as much
Really? Apart from the handful of literally whos and guys with no models, it seems to me like 30k's rules kind of push people into the special characters. At least in 40k if you're playing a homebrew or non-codex chapter, you can't make the special character as-is, but in 30k everyone's playing within the legions the characters are from.

>>51841769
That implies the Emperor set out to fail though.
He would not try to do the impossible in making a primarch better than Dorn.

>>51842070
What is Dorn's personality anyway? It always reads as his personality can be defined in every story he is in as "not like the other guy"

>>51842113
Man with the weight of the world on his shoulders and the tenacity to bear it without being a little bitch.
He's got a temper but keeps it (mostly) under his iron will. That repression and then the 'guilt' of the Emperor dying end up with the Fists becoming masochistic.

>>51841860
All those sweet T3 W1 3+ models

>>51841440
Thanks, I thought that because the Storm Eagles are Assault Transports, I'd be able to assault 1st turn (move 18, deploy, charge). If this not the case, I may have to look elsewhere.

The reason for the Augury Scanners is to mess with enemy deep strikes as the each Storm Eagle is carrying one (/HHG-Chan, the twin Apocs). That's why the lone Apoc doesn't, as he's arriving via Deep Strike with the Tacticals/Inductii (still up in the air about them).

>>51842113
Outwardly he tries not to have one, it would get in the way of fulfilling the Emperor's will and be inefficient.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Rogal_Dorn#Who_is_Dorn.3F

>>51841547
>>51841586
>>51841601
>>51842070
I suppose I should clarify my statement. in 30k the spirit of Counts-As is alive and well, often with some nice conversions to suit the rules or descriptions but ultimately a personal take.

GW's continuously decreasing support in 40k and newfound hard on for "if it's not in the kit it's not in the codex" has largely killed that same spirit of conversion and customization in mainline 40k, with people just using plastic/finecast special character models as they come.

>>51842113
I really loved the portryal of him at the end of Nemesis.
He for once gets to come in and be a character with a certain viewpoint, and dominates the humans with less principled, far-sighted read: autistic views about how the Imperium should conduct itself, getting genuinely angry with them all and out-arguing no less than Valdor and the Assassin council, only stopping (reluctantly) when the Emprah himself steps in. It's a great scene and worth reading even if you don't care about the rest of Nemesis. It's character-establishing for Dorn, which hadn't really been done before in the novel series, and creates some interesting insight into the lore of the organisation of the nascent post-Emperor Imperium as it continues into 40k.

He's like a smarter Corax, a more collected Angron, a humbler Horus, and a more selfless Guilliman.

>>51842251
so he's a mary sue.

ok

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So, I decided to take the plunge and get into 30k. I'll pick up BaC and BoP tomorrow, with a guy at the FLGS trading the Custodes and the SoS for a box of Scarab Terminators (as Sekhmet Terminators, obviously), so Thousand Sons it is.
Two quick questions:
- How is Ahriman meant to be used? He seems very costly for a buff dispenser, but he can't throw down all that well.
- What is the purpose of the Sekhmet? They seem to lack any clearly defined role. I mean, W2 terminators are neat, but they seem very generalist.
Also, just how viable is pure infantry/walker force?

>>51842070
>He would not try to do the impossible in making a primarch better than Dorn.
If only the Emperor had made 20 Dorns, maybe replace a few with a couple of Sangs and Guillimen, everything would have been fine.

>>51842288
Not really.

He's the Worf of 30k: simple on the surface, predictable in outward behaviour, and regularly the "straight man" to other characters' more flamboyant personality, but at the end of the day, he's as interesting at least as any of them.

>>51842251
>He's like a smarter Corax, a more collected Angron, a humbler Horus, and a more selfless Guilliman.

And yet his Legion is humbled and broken, he does not run the Imperium and he has to give way to Guilliman on every count. Dorn didn't remake the Imperium. Dorn didn't set up the High Lords of Terra.

>>51842337
Dorn lived only to save the Imperium, not to profit off of it.

He was Imperium Primaris, not "Secundus".

>>51842294
>- How is Ahriman meant to be used? He seems very costly for a buff dispenser, but he can't throw down all that well.
He's a buff dispenser and scout for warlord trait means you set up your forces well for the fight. Given the corvidae bonuses you want to hunker down to a spot and keep shooting without needing to reposition too much.
>- What is the purpose of the Sekhmet? They seem to lack any clearly defined role. I mean, W2 terminators are neat, but they seem very generalist.
They are good against everything, that's why they are hated.
>Also, just how viable is pure infantry/walker force?
If you go the Guard of the Crimson king, very yes, and very oppressingly OP once Magnus releases.

If not going termi + magnus spam, not so much. TS need to bring vehicles that can reliably take down flyers and tanks.

>>51842294
>as Sekhmet Terminators, obviously
Sekhmet is the actual name of the 'Scarab Occult'; The latter name came from those observing them.

>- How is Ahriman meant to be used? He seems very costly for a buff dispenser, but he can't throw down all that well.
He is a buff dispenser. He works well within a firebase of rapiers, tanks, etc. Twinlink things, grant ignores cover, maybe some some saves.

>>51842294
>What is the purpose of the Sekhmet?
Anything you want them to be. Choose levitation and molten beam or maelstrom to kill marines, MCs, and tanks alike. Or if you want a beater CC unit roll twice on biomancy. But if youre deepstriking them i'd recommend choosing at least levitation.

>>51842317
How will the Imperium expand when 20 planets would be the max occupancy with each Dorn holed up?

>>51842391
>implying Dorn doesn't make the concrete twice as thick as the rooms themselves to encourage expansionism

>>51842294

- well, given he is not a combat monster, use him as a potent force multiplier.
- the Sekmet are arguably the most rapetastic Terminators in the game because they can pick their powers from Pyromancy and Telekenesis. Simply spec em with Raptora, and enjoy your flying 2+/3++ terminators. (oh and they are cheap as well)

>>51842294
>Ahriman
He's not really over-priced, but he's not a beatstick, he's there to throw out ML4 Divination, ie re-rolls up the wazoo. Re-rolls are mad powerful.
If you take him you're committing to running 2 Corvidae troops, who are ideally shooty guys who don't move or count as Relentless, ie he's ideal for PotL or the Crimson Guard RoW. Attach him to a unit of veterans one move distance in.
Note that you can move 3 units 6" forward before the game starts with his Scout trait.
>Sekhmet
Best in the Crimson Guard Row, but work anywhere. You give them Raptora for the save and then try and get them into someone's face. With Molten Beam (4+ or 3+ if you wanna spec them for high dmg) you are a threat to everyone.
>infantry/walker
Viable, your only assault units are the Blade Cabal (who need an assault vehicle) and the Sekhmet, which you can give Levitate. You get excellent robots and can pay for a good Dread.
You'll still want something non-psyker that can deal with enemy armour and air.

Are Iron Warriors overdone or is that just /tg/?

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>fight to the death to defend your primarch and fight at his side as his protectors, he doesn't give a fuck because "lol only pussies need protecting"
>butcher's nails
>primarch is an angsty cunt
>being a psyker is deadly to practically the entire rest of the legion

Worst legion in the fluff 2bh

>>51842337
The Fists were broken because of the Siege, Dorn's leadership was needed during the scouring, meanwhile the Ultras were barely bruised and could Scour just fine while Guilliman played politician on Terra with mortals, like a child playing with dolls.

Guilliman had called them traitors. Guilliman, who did not bleed to defend the Imperial Palace. Guilliman, who did not carry the body of the Emperor from that cursed ship. Guilliman, who did not hear the last words of the Emperor and they said nothing of Chapters. Guilliman, who had finally become the politician he yearned to be.

>>51842466
Don't let their popularity put you off if they are your thing. You want to play the guys you love, shit is expensive and time-consuming.
But yes, they are popular.

>>51842466
>Are Iron Warriors overdone or is that just /tg/?
Theyre everywhere

>>51842466
They are very popular although it's not like the player base is 90% community as /tg/ will have you believe.

>>51842477
>who had finally become the politician he yearned to be.
>Well Sanguinius ruined my second imperium by being loyal. At least i get to take over dads-*gets stabbed in the neck*

>>51842474
That's Raven Guard

Constantly at odds with others with leadership, overly specialized, and ultimately ineffective and has made some very poor decisions.

WE's at least got shit done at occasion.

>>51842520

And now in 40k he's back to take over. And there's literally no-one to stop him.

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>>51842520
Fulgrim saviour of the Imperium

>>51842558
And ruining 40k. RIP in pieces 40k. Enjoy your Ynnari powerhouses anf the boys in blue lording over everyone.

>>51842552
You misspelled Night Lords

Does Ahriman have jealous command rule? Like he has to be warlord or something?

And also, is Sekmet an upgrade kit or full resin?

>>51842581
>And also, is Sekmet an upgrade kit or full resin?
Upgrade kit for Cataphractii, plastic kit for Tartaros.

>>51842558
>And there's literally no-one to stop him.
*Abaddon teleports behind you*
Nothing personal, Roboute :^)

>>51842581
No, read the rules.

Cataphractii Sekmet are coming as upgrade kits if the preview pics are any indication.

>>51842474
I don't know. They did scourge loads of worlds and fight at Terra. Some legions didn't even manage that. Plus, they're legitimately insane by Space Marine standards, which is saying a lot.

>>51841668
Lorgar would've been well used getting planets to enjoy their compliance after being conquered. That's the hardest part, in a way - in 2003 the US and friends smashed the Iraqi army, but instead of dropping a Lorgar on them to build fancy government buildings and praise the virtues of democracy, we let everyone run rampant until they started taking advantage of the chaos to settle old scores. Before we knew it, no more compliance.

He should've been following the Crusade, spending time in the most troubled worlds. Even without a religious aspect, it should've been fulfilling enough.

That would make his legion more like peacekeepers/police, which would've been interesting.

>>51842176
Did I fuck this up or is this viable?

>>51842581
>>51842606
>1st captain of the SoH can be overruled by his medic
>87th (or something) warsmith of the IW can't, unless you're taking him allied to a Primarch
Justify this.

>>51842646
Wise leader knows when he needs to step down.

>>51842644
Required reading when using a flying transport.
>flying section in the BRB
>transport section in the BRB
>tau codex
Really, is reading the rules a lost art or something?

>>51842646
>1st captain of the SoH can be overruled by his medic
He is ugly and nobody wants him to comand.

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>>51842646

Overwelming bitterness and paranoia.

>>51842703
Why is that Squat disguising itself as IW?

>>51842176
I think you can assault out of a Storm Eagle as long as it didn't arrive via Deep Strike that turn.

>>51842294
Pure infantry/walkers often get chewed up by template weapons in larger games (say, 3000pts). Vindicators and quad mortars with phosphex are common. The best solution is to have a strong enough firebase in the back that forces your opponent to do something about it, i.e. come to you. That means shooty units with protection from deep strikers - shooty Terminators are best for that, but few legions have them. That's why you mostly see Iron Warriors and Death Guard try to footslog (Siege Tyrants and Grave Wardens fill that role).

I don't think it works so well for Thousand Sons.

And go easy on the Sekhmets. 30k frowns upon the most competitive lists; it's a different atmosphere than what 40k has become in recent years.

>>51842770
Look at the back leg, then look at the front leg again, perspective means you can't see the right thigh.

>>51842176
Flyers can't start on the board.

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>>51842474
>Be Kauragar of the War Hounds
>Be primarchless for so long you even envy the IWs that just got decimated.
>Angron is finally found. A broken man stolen everything, even his death, has to be kidnapped and kills several captains before becoming your general
>Rather than being shaped to the primarch's will like the RF or DG, the Eaters of Worlds warp themselves in an effort to be like their father, becoming like Angron in both mind and habits.
>Time goes by
>Angron is losing himself, and so is your legion. He has forgotten what was the purpose of the honourable Devourer cadre.
>Gone is the martial honour, only bloodlust remains. The legion wins wars that didn't even need to be fought.
>You are deployed to Istvaan III and betrayed.
>Your brother Shabran dies fighting those who a few hours ago were your brothers, traitor heads adorning his backpack.
>You face your father in combat. Your brother steals his axe by hugging it to his torso.
>It is not enough.
>Half of your face disappears under chain teeth and your guts taste the air.
>You ask your father why stand with the traitors
>He responds he merely stands against the Emperor
>You die, and are one of the lucky ones.
>You won't see what kind of future leads the War Prince with the Pain Engine down the Crimson Path

You spelt "sad legion" wrong.

>>51842817
That's pretty sad anon, I'll give you that.

>>51842817
The World Eaters are so interesting because of all the missed opportunities open to them because of the Emperor's retardation in putting one barbaric feudal world above the loyalty of one of his priceless "sons".

They could have become an edgier mix between the Raven Guard (muh liberators) and the Space Wolves (muh bloodthirstiness).

>>51842558
>And there's literally no-one to stop him.
Except for Heman Russ and his buddy Lion-O Jonson. Guilliman's picking a fight with the Mega Powers, and it's not going to go well for him later this year at the Wolftime!

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>>51842802
No, the angles are all wrong. The front leg is WAY too fucking tiny if you are gonna say it's perspective.

Also the knee cover should go in front of the arm rather than behind it. You have to be leaning uncomfortably in before your bent forearms overtake your knees

>>51842477
>Dorn's leadership was needed during the scouring, while Guilliman played politician on Terra with mortals
they were both necessary during the scouring, and ensuring the mortal population was capable of organizing itself was important as fuck, and a good part of why the imperium still exists after all the super manbabies got themselves fucking killed or went to have a big cry about how sad they were for TEN THOUSAND FUCKING YEARS

Do Chymeriae with the +1 Toughness option have a realistic chance at footslogging? The decreased run and charge distances make me think not.

I'm considering using Blackshield Chymeriae with that Wrought By War option to represent Thunder Warriors. I haven't done much research on this specific item, but I'm not sure what kind of transport, if any, they would be using, and figured they were probably an infantry based force anyway, without much close armoured support because they're so volatile.

Would Rhinos and Land Raiders be poor flavour choices for this?

>Phosis T'kar and Kauragar
>F

They even rhyme